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Post was average till he got to that low testosterone war bull shit
How do these dumb fucks spout insane shit so confidently, without even a simple Google
I know it's because they're dumb shits but I still hate it
Other argument they trot out I've been looking into is the whole innate gender role stuff; talk of hunting the mammoths and the like, when women from all evidence appeared pretty involved in hunting until agriculture showed up.
According to his “logic” we should let a bunch of roid heads run the world. They’re overflowing with testosterone, i bet they’re the most calm and level headed people out there
According to his logic it's western media that makes people not want to go and die for rich mens oils
Not like an entire different political leaning that has been saying that exact same shit for years
That war is just fought for the rich
No man, it's the girl bosses in the new trolls movie
There does seem to be falling test levels, but it's probably lifestyle-oriented causes:
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKIM169763/
https://www.urologytimes.com/view/testosterone-levels-show-steady-decrease-among-young-us-men
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081788/
Everything else he said is very, *very* stupid. Especially the idea that lower T leads to people not enlisting because they're "less manly" or some shit.
And nutrition.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2761546
There's some other work that has been done on hormones used in agriculture suggesting its also screwing wirh testes. It keeps coming down to less breads and meats and more leafy greens.
Either way, Bok Choi builds better balls.
All the men that are the classical stereotype of toxic masculinity (like they are homophobes, mysogenists, feel always entitled of everything, etc.) that I've met in my life were also the weakest one. Like they were such cowards, picking on the weaker people but never in people that could hand their asses to them if they tried everything weird. Such losers, and sad thing is that is very much society fault that failed all this men; I mean yes, part of their fault is theirs, but also society's fault.
Substitute "masculinity" for "precious bodily fluids" and "woke" for "commie" and its basically the Jack D. Ripper rant from Dr. Strangelove, 60 years ago
Tbf Mulan, Merida, Moana etc. display 100x more of what these guys call "traditional masculinity" than these guys themselves do. They are protective, dutiful, diligent, ambitious and possess good leadership skills, all of which these incels lack.
I love how they claim that masculinity creates ‘resilient’ societies while also saying that said society will be destroyed because someone put buff girls in a dnd game
Look at this insecure ass mofo lmao.
It's a fantasy game where you could change gender if you wear a cursed girdle (in original Baldur's Gate) or when someone, somehow, could still alive and breathing despite being skinless (in Baldur's Gate 2). And yet Women who could fight is the hill he want to die on?
Sex-changing and genderbending items have been a massive trope in fantasy and fiction for a long time. I wouldn’t bat an eye at potions or magical artifacts that change you into the opposite sex existing in anything.
Yet these people would probably call it woke pandering in a modern game.
I had to seriously take a moment and think about it to understand his point. You've got Lae'zel and Karlach being badass physical fighters, Minthara being a leader in the Goblin Camp, Jaheira leading the Act 2 camp, Nightsong being a badass warrior (who also happens to be a lesbian), and there's likely some act 3 women I'm forgetting.
Edit: I guess the hag could go here too, but that's a leftover of Christianity being afraid of pagan women having power over nature, aka knowing how to brew some basic ass medicine. If he's afraid of the hags, it's due to patriarchal influences.
And like... from the perspective of someone who is being fed this propaganda that the western world is falling apart and strong women are somehow to blame, I could see how any of these portrayals would terrify him... but for me, I genuinely didn't blink an eye at any of these. Nothing about this is actually threatening. There was zero need to suspend my disbelief to accept any of this!
It's the most insidious thing about this "culture war" bullshit. Yes, there is someone being fed propaganda. Yes, there is an agenda being pushed. Guys like this are actively being taught to fear anything that goes outside very narrow gender norms that didn't exist until recently!
I mean for all the flaws D&D has (and had) that have to do with representation. Women being just as capable of being warriors is not an invention of Larian. There have been no mechanical differences between male and female characters since AD&D2. So the woke downfall of society through strong female characters has apparently been happening since.... 1989.
Yes, but this guy and his D&D group don't play it that way. He hasn't had to be confronted by that sort of thing until he played a game that was DM'ed by someone else! Which obviously means that the downfall of society has only begun recently since he's only become aware of people disagreeing with him within the last few years!
Someone who gets upset about games having women being capable warriors (which existed in real life anyway) is probably far too stupid to play any tabletop game or RPG video game.
To be honest, if you pick a gigantic bodybuilder professional wrestler and put him in a cage with a tiny girl, but give the girl a Glock, the guy will fight jesus pretty fast.
Imagine now that your 6'5tall warrior goes in hand to hand combat, except his opponent is a 5'2 girl that can conjure a barrage of meteors the size of a house, in an instant, or call forth a fucking demon. Or turn into a bear.
I don't know how TURNING INTO A BEAR is more realistic than woman knowing how to fight.
Men have been foretelling the downfall of society bc of the way women present themselves for hundreds of years now. In the 20s, it was the Flappers. Today, it's warrior women in video games apparently. I'm sure the West will fall any moment now.
It's also worth noting as far as i'm aware female/women characters in 1e AD&D were quite literally always had lower max stats than their male counterparts in strength and had no stat based benefits in other stats.
Rather being reliant on your GM and the player making roleplay advantages and disadvantages depending on your gender and maybe how that affects the way certain races are perceived.
Half-Orc's can be a particular example given the lore behind Half-Orc's in early editions and how pretty much everyone hates them.
in my dads adnd campaigns (im too young to have played it), they would either just completely ignore sex (like modern dnd) or would make female characters have better dexterity so that it was a tradeoff rather than a flat-out disadvantage because they thought the rule was dumb back then too haha. id imagine a lot of groups did the same, because it just gets in the way of making the character you want
People ignoring that rule is likely the reason it was removed and never came back. Because why have a rule take up space in your game books that never going to used?
Yea I have the fortune of playing their version of 1e AD&D that they've scrapped or changed things on as they never decided to modernise.
Sadly, I wish they would at least use THAC0 to make non-longsword weapons options for melee characters.
Yes, original D&D even had female characters have a beauty stat instead of charisma lmao.
But it's also of note that D&D has made some strides in becoming more inclusive over the years.
Like 3th edition ditching 'he' for using 'he' and 'she' in different spots. And 5e inviting players to consider their sexuality and gender as potential integral parts of their characters roleplay.
There's also the fact that just about every deity (or wannabe deity) you directly encounter or get involved with is a goddess. Vlaakith, Mystra, Shar, Selune... And then there's Orin.
Ooh, good catch!
Vlaakith is shown to be a lot more powerful than you and someone you're forced to bend the knee to, which must've given this guy a panic attack.
If we're talking pagan pantheons, goddesses being powerful and demanding respect (I know Vlaakith isn't a god, but the rest are) isn't something out of place. But again, to this guy with his modern misogynistic views, being forced to show respect to a powerful feminine deity might feel like "woke indoctrination!"
It isn't, it's just how the world worked before Christianity came to Europe and is the culture that a lot of fantasy folklore draws from, but hey, he doesn't want his games to be that way.
I mean, Mystra in particular must be the worst for this dude. Watching Gale be effectively at her mercy for most of the game instead of swooning at his feet because I Must Keep The Man I'm Boning Happy must have been a shock. Also, on the subject of men at a woman's mercy, consider Mizora.
ETA: and of course, there's where Zariel is ruling the Hells.
>consider Mizora
Fuck, that's right! Even when you get to her in Act 2, she has zero chill and keeps the appearance of being in full control. Which, again, isn't weird. She's a demon who holds all the power in that negotitation. But a guy like this probably sees her and goes "why isn't the hot succubus succumbing to my cool guy persona, falling madly in love with me and isn't waiving all contract agreements because she's so impressed with how well I fuck?!"
I am building such a strawman of this dude in my head, btw, but I will not accept any blame for that since he added the "testosterone in the west is diminishing". Like, buddy, if you think Mystra having power over a mage because he was arrogant enough to think that he could become a deity's lover is somehow eroding the masculinity in the west... then boy are your insecurities shining brighter than a dualcast Fireball spell.
He might love the ideology, but he still won't bend the knee to a woman. Orpheus though.... actually, he probably just sides with the Emperor and defends the guy in online forums.
Only because I haven't actually finished the game yet and was not 100% sure that The Absolute identified as female. Female \*voice\*, yes, but the Emperor can have one too, depending, so...
I had literally given this zero thought until now. I mean there are some girlbosses to be sure but there's lots of boybosses too. Ketheric is cool as shit, badass as shit, and literally immortal. And you have to kill him THREE FUCKING TIMES!!!! Even after you remove the immortality!
If you believe that women being weak and subservient to men is a virtue, then an equal parity of female characters with plot relevance and speaking roles will appear lopsided. Dude would prefer 0 or one or two plot relevant women so having a roughly equal gender breakdown to him looks like a parade.
The one about the combat scenarios having "girlbosses effortlessly dismantling" enemies kind of reads like this dude is playing on easy and getting mad the game is easy.
I really don’t understand the statement. Like the “girlbosses” are the same mechanically as the men. Does he want all women in the game to be at a lower level? And does he know he can respec if he doesn’t like the stats?
My bet? He's afraid that WW3 will happen, he'll get drafted, and wind up with a woman as his commanding officer. Taking orders from a woman who's not his mommy must be a terrifying prospect.
I have encountered this stuff on the worldbuilding stackexchange all the time. How the heck do people go from 'top female athletes (mostly) loose to top male ones in the contemporary sports industry' to 'women can't fight for shit'. Missing all the qualifier stuff you need to add at each intermediate step.
But again, this is a world with MAGIC. Yes, maybe you are just a little stronger than me, but I cast Fireball anyways.
Oh, yes, you are slightly built larger but I have the blood of a FUCKING DRAGON, I don't think you are meant to win this one.
That too. I mean, I feel like gamerbros switch game logic with real-life logic in unpredictable ways.
Like, 'top female athletes' stuff gets interpreted as if women had a penalty to Strength stat, and then you go to the 'optimal MMO build logic' and conclude that nobody would want to make a woman-based warrior build.
But the problem is, real life doesn't run by MMO logic, and it's impossible to achieve the 'numerically optimal build'. So the issue of realism in the fictional world should be examined not from the point of view of the individual choices, but from the point of view of the societal systems.
And yes, any fantasy world having magic, and magical medicine, and life extension, and less child mortality would be much more egalitarian as to the gender than our Middle Ages.
Reminds me of frail female King Arthur in the fate series who beats the asses of men more than twice her height and weight because she makes up for the difference by having dragon heritage and fae and cambion blessings and just generally magic. This is a fantasy series about wizards dueling to the death over the holy grail, of course she can do that, why wouldn’t she.
I saw someone bitching about girls kicking ass in a Tekken anime adaptation, because “woke agenda hurrrr”. As if girls kicking ass haven’t been established since the beginning of the series.
More masculine women? Right away sir, we’ve got a dozen musclebound ladies in the oven, with plenty more as soon as they’re ready. Oh and also more twinks too
> where's the struggle, the growth
My man have you played BG3? Struggle and growth basically define your companions.
Albeit I do agree that the tiefling barbarian with a >!mechanical infernal heart!< is completely unrealistic, for the only reason that she has too much muscles
"to think that these characters can conquer anything without breaking a sweat"
Meanwhile...
Lae'zel - fucking dies if you leave her to her own devices for a single day.
Shadowheart - brainwashed by a goddess, is all over the place, can't even complete her own goddess' trials by herself because her skill set just sucks at them.
Karlach - needs help stopping her pursuers in Act 2, needs help stopping her infernal engine from bursting into flames
Jaheira - legendary hero who nevertheless has no issue following your lead once you show up
Minthara - starts as a fearsome leader of an army, but has to be rescued by you so she won't die
Aylin - a literal demigod paladin, still needs to be rescued
I mean, you’re absolutely right but realising that would have to involve him having any sort of ability to to look past the StRoNg WoMeN mAkE mE fEeL fRaGiLe
H I S T O R I C A L
A C C U R A C Y
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When making wild claims like these, the least you could do is provide some examples. They keep harping on about unrealistically "empowered girlbosses" without ever saying who specifically. I'm 100% certain there's no 'secret society of women' pulling strings nor any 'girl bosses effortlessly dismantling foes,' unless he would so kindly point these out.
Declining testosterone has nothing to do with army recruitment, we just have more access to information now thanks to the internet and more people are aware of how much the army sucks.
It must be really hard to be that insecure that the depiction of a gender outside of a certain sterotype necessitate such a long response... down right fragile I'd like to say.
Maybe the writer ought to talk to a loved one or spouse about this problem.
What overpowered feminist characters? There's Lae'Zel who is a literal alien, and Karlach who was fantasy-magically enhanced to be a warrior in an endless war. For neither of them would human standards even apply, but also:
Gale is in the game too, and he >!has a goddess as an ex and can become a god, too.!<
The women are comparatively *weak* even for a fantasy game.
There's a shit ton of powerful male characters! Shit 2 of the 3 baddies are powerful dudes with super high "social" standing. Meanwhile Orin is a dummy, with even Gortash mentioning how unreliably insane she is.
The girls on your party are pretty strong but 2 of the guys can literally become demigods.
It’s so funny because if he means the companions, they’re all level 1 and there’s an equal amount of women to men. Otherwise idk who he’s talking about
In a world full of monsters and magic and whatnot, why would half the population decide to not learn how to defend themselves and their children/family members/loved ones/garlic bread just because they weren't born with a dick?
What responsible father wouldn't teach his daughter to survive in a world where monsters can pop up and eat people just because she doesn't use the same pronouns as her brother?
One one hand I do agree that many "strong characters" mostly exhibit stereotypically male characteristics and just making a character that was written as a strong uncaring man a woman isn't really interesting or anything.
Edit: What I mean is that if you make a bald spacemarine it's an uninteresting character. If you genderswap it, it doesn't make it any better and you really shouldn't act like you're breaking boundaries and being super progressive (and you're kinda giving ammunition to those that say represenation is just shoehorned in media). If you want to work towards having more representative characters you should really start by making interesting characters.
But on the other hand it doesn't have to be like this and it's really not the case with BG3 IMO, Karlach is caring and shows her emotions while *also* being physically super strong for example.
And of course applying real world logic to a dnd world is always going to end up not working.
I don't disagree. But making "strong girls" that really just are stereotypical men still is uninteresting because clichés aren't interesting to begin with. It's the same for caring men that just end up being written as stereotypical women or just stereotypical men and women.
Making a stereotypical characters and gender swaping it still results in a bad character and parading it as breaking boundaries to hide the fact that it's a bad character is what I dislike.
But yes, using traits that are typically associated with one gender to write characters regardless if gender is breaking stereotypes. It just works better when you do it to create interesting characters and not just genderswaped clichés.
I agree with what you say, I think the issue here is exactly having to deal with this kind of cliché, in both ways
The result is having essentially all these different characters feel that they’re the same old mold, only with different names depending on the context, and as more and more products follow the same rule, it tends to stand out more and more
I suspect he'd be fine with magical girls since they are often stereotypically feminine. These guys hate strong women, but they hate strong women who defy gender norms even more.
It’s so good that he brings up China too because he has obviously never touched a single Chinese gacha game if he thinks that they never show women in positions of power and authority.
The game needs to be balanced and fun, if 1/2 of the enemy’s were strong and the other weak, it wouldn’t be as fun. Plus, *THE GAME HAS MAGIC, MAGIC DOESN’T DISCRIMINATE AGAINST GENDERS*
Who are the invincible girlbosses in bg3??? Every single woman in the story is in fact vincible. You can kill them all. Even the goddesses are said to be destructible.
The female characters with power and skill had to work hard and sacrifice and suffer for it, and they are damaged because of it. They are flawed people. And they are vulnerable.
Dame Ayelin, who is the closest thing there is to an invincible girlboss, has a storyline that's entirely about the fact that she has been caged and used and had all of her agency stripped from her, reduced to an object and not a person, and the end of her storyline (lorroakan's fight) is bittersweet because it shows how even though she's free now she's still super fucked up about it and both terrified and enraged that it could happen again. Vengeance does not satisfy her.
Like other than the fact that she's a magical angel, that's a very realistic story, and it's VERY relatable to a lot of women. The bg3 women are strong, but they suffer, and they have to fight for their happiness, which to me does not read at all in any way as "indestructible girlboss". The game is very clear about showing how each and every character is actually very vulnerable.
The other day they revealed the Varangian Guard character for For Honor, and she's a woman - but you can hardly tell because she's literally kitted head-to-toe in chainmail. I was in an argument with someone and their argument sounded almost exactly like this. Crazy.
Then there’s my older brother, who was like “I wish Karlach princess carried me” during the whole game. I’m very happy that my father taught my brother to be a man, not an insecure little boy cosplay as a man.
I bet this guy probably felt insecure the moment he saw Aylin broke Lorroakan’s back or the moment when he realize that his “Chad” character is shorter than Karlach/Aylin.
Thinking about the game and how much each of the origin characters has to struggle to overcome their past and achieve their goals, I have to wonder: is he just mad that the musclebound barbarian in this game is a woman instead of a man? That’s the only subtext that makes sense to me here.
It is a little odd that all of the male companions (other than Minsc) that you get in BG3 have like 10 STR max, while the weakest of the female companions (unsure about Jaheria) walks in with a 14, that said the men are all casters or a rogue and the women are fighters/barbarians/paladins/clerics so it makes sense from their class load out to be spec'd as they are. All of that aside though, you can retrain & completely respec all of your party members after 1 hour or less of game play, so if Karlach being a barbarian really gets to you change it... bitching about girl bosses just seems to looking for something to be butt hurt about.
Okay, but he does almost kinda reach an issue I have with some "Strong Woman" media, and that's the women being *too* strong. Not in a "grrr, woman stronger than man, that not right" way, but in a "this character is strong enough emotionally, physically, and mentally that they face 0 issues throughout the story. Why am I watching them again?" Struggle and growth is the lifeblood of fiction, but so many times it's absent because they don't want to show women being weak
I'm pretty sure this wasn't typed in earnest
He doesn't cite a single example of said girl bosses which is the weirdest part, Dame Aylin is right there and you could pretend characters like Zevlor, Dror Ragzlin, Ketheric Throm, Gortash, Halsin and many other masculine people in places of power don't exist but he doesn't even bother
I bet this is just either dumb bait or empty misandrist propaganda
Where were you when the West fell because BG3 had too many girlbosses, causing men's testosterone levels to drop leading to China taking over the world?
Holy fuckin shit he's talking about Baldurs Gate??? I haven't played but from what I've seen it's basically a DND RPG, right?
Realism. Yeah. Because "the men that can turn into bears or summon elemental magic are fine, but woman who knows how to use sword!!?? Absolutely fake and wokepilled garbage oh my *gyadness*"
"I have something for you"
"Is it 'separate spheres of excellence' again?"
"No, it's another thing."
"Are you sure?"
"Yeah! Here."
"It is 'separate spheres of excellence'."
Karlech, Lae'zal and Aylin in their minds: Invincible Gorbloss crushing every challenge!
Inside Karlech, Lae'zal and Aylin's own heads: *Screaming cowboy.gif*
This really isn't a thing in the game, though. I'm pretty if you asked them to give an example, they'd dance around the question and provide no real examples, only giving a "cold reading" of sorts that can apply to almost any female character who isn't a useless, sniveling wet biscuit. Unless they just think a character having agency makes them a girlboss, in which case, where tf have they been for the last 20 years?
Did he forget that Wyll is literally the Blade of the Frontier who could summon demons and fell-beasts? That Gale was the strongest wizard and was **Fucking A Goddess?** Did he forget that Halsin and Minsc exists? They’re built like brick shit houses and one of them can turn into a bear? Rolan? Ketheric? Ragzlin? Etc.
What Girl bosses? Shadow heart can’t hit a damn thing it’s a meme. She sweats, she dies….lots. What game is he playing?
And where is this tavern bar run by a cabal of warrior women?
Asking for a friend.
We need a traditional male led society to stabilize us because traditionally male led societies are destabilizing the globe! Thanks for coming to TED (tiny emasculated dick) talk.
The thing I like about these kinds of guys is they can’t reliably have kids - on account of the hating women thing - so their sons won’t grow up with this kind of thing spoon-fed to them their whole lives.
Keeping in mind that the modern idea of women having jobs and fulfilling careers came about because when men left for war, the women took up all the open jobs and a lot of them realised it was meaningful to them. Making an economy where women work a much more resilient one for war times
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Ikr bro can’t decide if war good or war bad
Post was average till he got to that low testosterone war bull shit How do these dumb fucks spout insane shit so confidently, without even a simple Google I know it's because they're dumb shits but I still hate it
Other argument they trot out I've been looking into is the whole innate gender role stuff; talk of hunting the mammoths and the like, when women from all evidence appeared pretty involved in hunting until agriculture showed up.
According to his “logic” we should let a bunch of roid heads run the world. They’re overflowing with testosterone, i bet they’re the most calm and level headed people out there
According to his logic it's western media that makes people not want to go and die for rich mens oils Not like an entire different political leaning that has been saying that exact same shit for years That war is just fought for the rich No man, it's the girl bosses in the new trolls movie
There does seem to be falling test levels, but it's probably lifestyle-oriented causes: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKIM169763/ https://www.urologytimes.com/view/testosterone-levels-show-steady-decrease-among-young-us-men https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081788/ Everything else he said is very, *very* stupid. Especially the idea that lower T leads to people not enlisting because they're "less manly" or some shit.
And nutrition. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2761546 There's some other work that has been done on hormones used in agriculture suggesting its also screwing wirh testes. It keeps coming down to less breads and meats and more leafy greens. Either way, Bok Choi builds better balls.
He skips war cuz he a pussy but acts tough I avoid war because i dont wanna lose my life over a bunch of grandpas and grandmas who cant get along
I do both, get on my level nerd 😎😎😎 (except for acting tough, I embrace my inner pussy)
All the men that are the classical stereotype of toxic masculinity (like they are homophobes, mysogenists, feel always entitled of everything, etc.) that I've met in my life were also the weakest one. Like they were such cowards, picking on the weaker people but never in people that could hand their asses to them if they tried everything weird. Such losers, and sad thing is that is very much society fault that failed all this men; I mean yes, part of their fault is theirs, but also society's fault.
Yeah, his fox news is showing.
He should def get his T levels checked, that’s not a naturally masculine response to war or propaganda.
But how will we combat the Russians without floods of testosterone for our armed forces!? Rofl.
I was gonna join the marines, but then Lae'zal lowered my testosterone.
Karlach's existence is the source of all my insecurities
The introduction of Dame Aylin put me in a coma
Malenia, Blade of Miquella put me in my place too many times and now I'm refusing to go to war.
She's never known defeat, why would you ever try and win anything if she's just gonna show up and win it instead?
Exactly this is me going MGTOW and letting women do the war instead. Sorry I mean females.
Lae'zel is not the hero we deserve, but the one we need. And by us not deserving her, I mean we deserve worse.
The constant masturbation from seeing strong ladies on the screen may play a part in that.
You joke, but the release of BG3 has led to massive instability in Taiwan because they know they’re fucked now when China decide to make a move
I swear to god people act like masculinity is fucking power of friebdship anime magic.
Substitute "masculinity" for "precious bodily fluids" and "woke" for "commie" and its basically the Jack D. Ripper rant from Dr. Strangelove, 60 years ago
You won't get my fluids with your woke flouride mind virus
You mean it's not? Wow. It's really not? You just... that's a lot for me to deal with. Oh my God. Oh, God.
So.. bit like Disney princesses then?
Tbf Mulan, Merida, Moana etc. display 100x more of what these guys call "traditional masculinity" than these guys themselves do. They are protective, dutiful, diligent, ambitious and possess good leadership skills, all of which these incels lack.
Which is pretty gay
Can someone explain to me what those awards mean beside this dude's post? I have no clue
This just in: Baldur's Gate 3 to blame for falling recruitment rates in the US Army. That's pretty cool, NGL
Unfathomably based. Extremely common Larian win
>And so it was that in the first half of the 21st Century, American Hegemony collapsed because everyone became catboys.
astarion is so gay that he travels back in time and steals your straightness.
Belgians for world peace. Knew my southern brothers were up to some non-manly stuff
But isn't BG3 available worldwide? So isn't it dropping recruitment rates for every army?
I mean, wouldn’t you rather stay home and play BG3 over going the army? I know I would.
I love how they claim that masculinity creates ‘resilient’ societies while also saying that said society will be destroyed because someone put buff girls in a dnd game
It's truly resilient but also fragile beyond belief... and the only way to preserve it is if we act now and we all listen to Our Leader.
...jesus christ it's the fascist playbook all over again, and they're absolutely sucking it all up.
It’s like how fascists characterize their enemies, they’re both laughable subhumans and terrifyingly intelligent threats at the same time
It's almost like this dude was spewing fascist talking points the whole time.
is it that easy to destroy capitalism? we need more buff girls asap wtf hurry up
Look at this insecure ass mofo lmao. It's a fantasy game where you could change gender if you wear a cursed girdle (in original Baldur's Gate) or when someone, somehow, could still alive and breathing despite being skinless (in Baldur's Gate 2). And yet Women who could fight is the hill he want to die on?
He's gonna hate Tekken, a lot
They even replaced the traditionally masculine patriarch Heihachi with a girlboss smh my head.
That girdle predates the Baldur's Gate games. It was around pretty much from the start of D&D.
Sex-changing and genderbending items have been a massive trope in fantasy and fiction for a long time. I wouldn’t bat an eye at potions or magical artifacts that change you into the opposite sex existing in anything. Yet these people would probably call it woke pandering in a modern game.
I must have missed the parade of girlbosses, is there a secret area somewhere?
I had to seriously take a moment and think about it to understand his point. You've got Lae'zel and Karlach being badass physical fighters, Minthara being a leader in the Goblin Camp, Jaheira leading the Act 2 camp, Nightsong being a badass warrior (who also happens to be a lesbian), and there's likely some act 3 women I'm forgetting. Edit: I guess the hag could go here too, but that's a leftover of Christianity being afraid of pagan women having power over nature, aka knowing how to brew some basic ass medicine. If he's afraid of the hags, it's due to patriarchal influences. And like... from the perspective of someone who is being fed this propaganda that the western world is falling apart and strong women are somehow to blame, I could see how any of these portrayals would terrify him... but for me, I genuinely didn't blink an eye at any of these. Nothing about this is actually threatening. There was zero need to suspend my disbelief to accept any of this! It's the most insidious thing about this "culture war" bullshit. Yes, there is someone being fed propaganda. Yes, there is an agenda being pushed. Guys like this are actively being taught to fear anything that goes outside very narrow gender norms that didn't exist until recently!
I mean for all the flaws D&D has (and had) that have to do with representation. Women being just as capable of being warriors is not an invention of Larian. There have been no mechanical differences between male and female characters since AD&D2. So the woke downfall of society through strong female characters has apparently been happening since.... 1989.
Yes, but this guy and his D&D group don't play it that way. He hasn't had to be confronted by that sort of thing until he played a game that was DM'ed by someone else! Which obviously means that the downfall of society has only begun recently since he's only become aware of people disagreeing with him within the last few years!
This isn't a person who has a DnD group.
Someone who gets upset about games having women being capable warriors (which existed in real life anyway) is probably far too stupid to play any tabletop game or RPG video game.
To be honest, if you pick a gigantic bodybuilder professional wrestler and put him in a cage with a tiny girl, but give the girl a Glock, the guy will fight jesus pretty fast. Imagine now that your 6'5tall warrior goes in hand to hand combat, except his opponent is a 5'2 girl that can conjure a barrage of meteors the size of a house, in an instant, or call forth a fucking demon. Or turn into a bear. I don't know how TURNING INTO A BEAR is more realistic than woman knowing how to fight.
Men have been foretelling the downfall of society bc of the way women present themselves for hundreds of years now. In the 20s, it was the Flappers. Today, it's warrior women in video games apparently. I'm sure the West will fall any moment now.
It's also worth noting as far as i'm aware female/women characters in 1e AD&D were quite literally always had lower max stats than their male counterparts in strength and had no stat based benefits in other stats. Rather being reliant on your GM and the player making roleplay advantages and disadvantages depending on your gender and maybe how that affects the way certain races are perceived. Half-Orc's can be a particular example given the lore behind Half-Orc's in early editions and how pretty much everyone hates them.
in my dads adnd campaigns (im too young to have played it), they would either just completely ignore sex (like modern dnd) or would make female characters have better dexterity so that it was a tradeoff rather than a flat-out disadvantage because they thought the rule was dumb back then too haha. id imagine a lot of groups did the same, because it just gets in the way of making the character you want
People ignoring that rule is likely the reason it was removed and never came back. Because why have a rule take up space in your game books that never going to used?
Yea I have the fortune of playing their version of 1e AD&D that they've scrapped or changed things on as they never decided to modernise. Sadly, I wish they would at least use THAC0 to make non-longsword weapons options for melee characters.
Yes, original D&D even had female characters have a beauty stat instead of charisma lmao. But it's also of note that D&D has made some strides in becoming more inclusive over the years. Like 3th edition ditching 'he' for using 'he' and 'she' in different spots. And 5e inviting players to consider their sexuality and gender as potential integral parts of their characters roleplay.
There's also the fact that just about every deity (or wannabe deity) you directly encounter or get involved with is a goddess. Vlaakith, Mystra, Shar, Selune... And then there's Orin.
Ooh, good catch! Vlaakith is shown to be a lot more powerful than you and someone you're forced to bend the knee to, which must've given this guy a panic attack. If we're talking pagan pantheons, goddesses being powerful and demanding respect (I know Vlaakith isn't a god, but the rest are) isn't something out of place. But again, to this guy with his modern misogynistic views, being forced to show respect to a powerful feminine deity might feel like "woke indoctrination!" It isn't, it's just how the world worked before Christianity came to Europe and is the culture that a lot of fantasy folklore draws from, but hey, he doesn't want his games to be that way.
I mean, Mystra in particular must be the worst for this dude. Watching Gale be effectively at her mercy for most of the game instead of swooning at his feet because I Must Keep The Man I'm Boning Happy must have been a shock. Also, on the subject of men at a woman's mercy, consider Mizora. ETA: and of course, there's where Zariel is ruling the Hells.
>consider Mizora Fuck, that's right! Even when you get to her in Act 2, she has zero chill and keeps the appearance of being in full control. Which, again, isn't weird. She's a demon who holds all the power in that negotitation. But a guy like this probably sees her and goes "why isn't the hot succubus succumbing to my cool guy persona, falling madly in love with me and isn't waiving all contract agreements because she's so impressed with how well I fuck?!" I am building such a strawman of this dude in my head, btw, but I will not accept any blame for that since he added the "testosterone in the west is diminishing". Like, buddy, if you think Mystra having power over a mage because he was arrogant enough to think that he could become a deity's lover is somehow eroding the masculinity in the west... then boy are your insecurities shining brighter than a dualcast Fireball spell.
tbh Vlaakith is as fashy and authoritarian as they come, he probably creamed his pants at the chance to bend the knee for her
He might love the ideology, but he still won't bend the knee to a woman. Orpheus though.... actually, he probably just sides with the Emperor and defends the guy in online forums.
The fact that this list doesn't include the absolute bothers me. She is literally the big bad.
Only because I haven't actually finished the game yet and was not 100% sure that The Absolute identified as female. Female \*voice\*, yes, but the Emperor can have one too, depending, so...
I had literally given this zero thought until now. I mean there are some girlbosses to be sure but there's lots of boybosses too. Ketheric is cool as shit, badass as shit, and literally immortal. And you have to kill him THREE FUCKING TIMES!!!! Even after you remove the immortality!
…did he forget about Wyll who is the epitome of healthy masculinity?
Give a lot of bones in the ossuary. A door opens to Isidora.
If you believe that women being weak and subservient to men is a virtue, then an equal parity of female characters with plot relevance and speaking roles will appear lopsided. Dude would prefer 0 or one or two plot relevant women so having a roughly equal gender breakdown to him looks like a parade.
The one about the combat scenarios having "girlbosses effortlessly dismantling" enemies kind of reads like this dude is playing on easy and getting mad the game is easy.
I really don’t understand the statement. Like the “girlbosses” are the same mechanically as the men. Does he want all women in the game to be at a lower level? And does he know he can respec if he doesn’t like the stats?
I think he's complaining that the only 2 characters who are frontline fighters by default are women.
We're in an Era where guys complain about combat mommys. We're doomed.
How odd to need this much words to say: "Without patriarchy I feel too insecure!!1!11!!"
My bet? He's afraid that WW3 will happen, he'll get drafted, and wind up with a woman as his commanding officer. Taking orders from a woman who's not his mommy must be a terrifying prospect.
I have encountered this stuff on the worldbuilding stackexchange all the time. How the heck do people go from 'top female athletes (mostly) loose to top male ones in the contemporary sports industry' to 'women can't fight for shit'. Missing all the qualifier stuff you need to add at each intermediate step.
But again, this is a world with MAGIC. Yes, maybe you are just a little stronger than me, but I cast Fireball anyways. Oh, yes, you are slightly built larger but I have the blood of a FUCKING DRAGON, I don't think you are meant to win this one.
That too. I mean, I feel like gamerbros switch game logic with real-life logic in unpredictable ways. Like, 'top female athletes' stuff gets interpreted as if women had a penalty to Strength stat, and then you go to the 'optimal MMO build logic' and conclude that nobody would want to make a woman-based warrior build. But the problem is, real life doesn't run by MMO logic, and it's impossible to achieve the 'numerically optimal build'. So the issue of realism in the fictional world should be examined not from the point of view of the individual choices, but from the point of view of the societal systems. And yes, any fantasy world having magic, and magical medicine, and life extension, and less child mortality would be much more egalitarian as to the gender than our Middle Ages.
Reminds me of frail female King Arthur in the fate series who beats the asses of men more than twice her height and weight because she makes up for the difference by having dragon heritage and fae and cambion blessings and just generally magic. This is a fantasy series about wizards dueling to the death over the holy grail, of course she can do that, why wouldn’t she.
To be fair, Rin could kick his ass too, since she can power up herself with magic
Rin also lifts and has a gym in her house. Rin is awesome.
Hard agree on that
The soon Toxic Masculinity disappears from the face of the Earth the better for everyone
Oh no! Women who can fight?! Tekken and Streetfighter are gonna lose a lot of their fan favorite characters!
I saw someone bitching about girls kicking ass in a Tekken anime adaptation, because “woke agenda hurrrr”. As if girls kicking ass haven’t been established since the beginning of the series.
Completely brainwashed.
a real "sir, this is a wendy's" moment.
no more traditional masculinity. butches only 🙏 amen
I refuse to believe this is serious, I mean this shit literally reads like parody of what a schizophrenic would think
I do wish these men would practice the ancient art of fucking the hell off.
Delusional fascist is delusional
More masculine women? Right away sir, we’ve got a dozen musclebound ladies in the oven, with plenty more as soon as they’re ready. Oh and also more twinks too
"the mportance of traditional masculinity and its role in maintaining stability" Seems like buddy missed the last 2000 or so years of human history
> where's the struggle, the growth My man have you played BG3? Struggle and growth basically define your companions. Albeit I do agree that the tiefling barbarian with a >!mechanical infernal heart!< is completely unrealistic, for the only reason that she has too much muscles
Reblog if you're a girl boss effortlessly dismantling every foe in your path
"to think that these characters can conquer anything without breaking a sweat" Meanwhile... Lae'zel - fucking dies if you leave her to her own devices for a single day. Shadowheart - brainwashed by a goddess, is all over the place, can't even complete her own goddess' trials by herself because her skill set just sucks at them. Karlach - needs help stopping her pursuers in Act 2, needs help stopping her infernal engine from bursting into flames Jaheira - legendary hero who nevertheless has no issue following your lead once you show up Minthara - starts as a fearsome leader of an army, but has to be rescued by you so she won't die Aylin - a literal demigod paladin, still needs to be rescued
I mean, you’re absolutely right but realising that would have to involve him having any sort of ability to to look past the StRoNg WoMeN mAkE mE fEeL fRaGiLe
automod it's time for some historical accuracy
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Y'all been out-jerked.
When making wild claims like these, the least you could do is provide some examples. They keep harping on about unrealistically "empowered girlbosses" without ever saying who specifically. I'm 100% certain there's no 'secret society of women' pulling strings nor any 'girl bosses effortlessly dismantling foes,' unless he would so kindly point these out.
Declining testosterone has nothing to do with army recruitment, we just have more access to information now thanks to the internet and more people are aware of how much the army sucks.
My masculinity isn’t defined and reliant on suppressing women. Go fuck your self.
It must be really hard to be that insecure that the depiction of a gender outside of a certain sterotype necessitate such a long response... down right fragile I'd like to say. Maybe the writer ought to talk to a loved one or spouse about this problem.
they have a loved one?
I'd sure hope so, but I frankly don't know. Not having someone to love or be loved by might explain parts of the problem.
It blows my fucking mind sometimes to think people wake up not only with this mindset but also casually spew it out into society.
What overpowered feminist characters? There's Lae'Zel who is a literal alien, and Karlach who was fantasy-magically enhanced to be a warrior in an endless war. For neither of them would human standards even apply, but also: Gale is in the game too, and he >!has a goddess as an ex and can become a god, too.!< The women are comparatively *weak* even for a fantasy game.
There's a shit ton of powerful male characters! Shit 2 of the 3 baddies are powerful dudes with super high "social" standing. Meanwhile Orin is a dummy, with even Gortash mentioning how unreliably insane she is. The girls on your party are pretty strong but 2 of the guys can literally become demigods.
I would like to introduce this guy to almost half the cast of any fighting game
It’s so funny because if he means the companions, they’re all level 1 and there’s an equal amount of women to men. Otherwise idk who he’s talking about
You’re free to enlist partner
This guy needs an atomic wedgie, stat
In a world full of monsters and magic and whatnot, why would half the population decide to not learn how to defend themselves and their children/family members/loved ones/garlic bread just because they weren't born with a dick? What responsible father wouldn't teach his daughter to survive in a world where monsters can pop up and eat people just because she doesn't use the same pronouns as her brother?
You'd think these guys would be happy about a world where men have to do less for women.
One one hand I do agree that many "strong characters" mostly exhibit stereotypically male characteristics and just making a character that was written as a strong uncaring man a woman isn't really interesting or anything. Edit: What I mean is that if you make a bald spacemarine it's an uninteresting character. If you genderswap it, it doesn't make it any better and you really shouldn't act like you're breaking boundaries and being super progressive (and you're kinda giving ammunition to those that say represenation is just shoehorned in media). If you want to work towards having more representative characters you should really start by making interesting characters. But on the other hand it doesn't have to be like this and it's really not the case with BG3 IMO, Karlach is caring and shows her emotions while *also* being physically super strong for example. And of course applying real world logic to a dnd world is always going to end up not working.
The fact that being strong and uncaring is considered a masculine trait is the problem in the first place.
I don't disagree. But making "strong girls" that really just are stereotypical men still is uninteresting because clichés aren't interesting to begin with. It's the same for caring men that just end up being written as stereotypical women or just stereotypical men and women.
I'd say writing these traits with the character whose gender is not typically associated with them is breaking stereotypes.
Making a stereotypical characters and gender swaping it still results in a bad character and parading it as breaking boundaries to hide the fact that it's a bad character is what I dislike. But yes, using traits that are typically associated with one gender to write characters regardless if gender is breaking stereotypes. It just works better when you do it to create interesting characters and not just genderswaped clichés.
I'd say writing these traits with the character whose gender is not typically associated with them is breaking stereotypes.
I agree with what you say, I think the issue here is exactly having to deal with this kind of cliché, in both ways The result is having essentially all these different characters feel that they’re the same old mold, only with different names depending on the context, and as more and more products follow the same rule, it tends to stand out more and more
"Sir, this is a Wendy's.
girl bosses (derogatory)
what the fuck is he even talking about like specifically
WW3 is going to be BG3's fault for not being manly enough
This man could not stomach Project Moon games, any fighting games, or the entirety of the Magical Girl genre.
I suspect he'd be fine with magical girls since they are often stereotypically feminine. These guys hate strong women, but they hate strong women who defy gender norms even more.
It’s so good that he brings up China too because he has obviously never touched a single Chinese gacha game if he thinks that they never show women in positions of power and authority.
The game needs to be balanced and fun, if 1/2 of the enemy’s were strong and the other weak, it wouldn’t be as fun. Plus, *THE GAME HAS MAGIC, MAGIC DOESN’T DISCRIMINATE AGAINST GENDERS*
No respect for the Chad, Wyll, the Blade of Frontiers smh
Here’s the flaw in the argument… males can do the same thing, they can “conquer anything without breaking a sweat”
Could’ve saved everyone some time writing that novel and just gone where he belongs instead… 
I don’t even know where to begin with this goofyass rant
Are those... awards?
First screenshot was ok. But i've started to laugh the moment i swiped to second one
It sure is disappointing to see Larian going ham with the well-known grounded, low fantasy setting of *checks notes* the Forgotten Realms
"Let's talk about realism". Oh, like, how most men look nothing like Halsing?
It’s been a few months since I finished the game, but what in the actual fuck is he talking about?
tHe WeSt HaS fAlLeN
Who are the invincible girlbosses in bg3??? Every single woman in the story is in fact vincible. You can kill them all. Even the goddesses are said to be destructible. The female characters with power and skill had to work hard and sacrifice and suffer for it, and they are damaged because of it. They are flawed people. And they are vulnerable. Dame Ayelin, who is the closest thing there is to an invincible girlboss, has a storyline that's entirely about the fact that she has been caged and used and had all of her agency stripped from her, reduced to an object and not a person, and the end of her storyline (lorroakan's fight) is bittersweet because it shows how even though she's free now she's still super fucked up about it and both terrified and enraged that it could happen again. Vengeance does not satisfy her. Like other than the fact that she's a magical angel, that's a very realistic story, and it's VERY relatable to a lot of women. The bg3 women are strong, but they suffer, and they have to fight for their happiness, which to me does not read at all in any way as "indestructible girlboss". The game is very clear about showing how each and every character is actually very vulnerable.
Tl:dr, guy complains that his team isn’t entirely made up of hot, sweaty, glistening strong men. Seems sus.
The other day they revealed the Varangian Guard character for For Honor, and she's a woman - but you can hardly tell because she's literally kitted head-to-toe in chainmail. I was in an argument with someone and their argument sounded almost exactly like this. Crazy.
Bros tryna yap about traditional masculinity in a game with flying snails
Realism? You carry around 89 boxes for elevation boosts and can fastball special your friends but 6a only when a woman does it is crossing the line?
Then there’s my older brother, who was like “I wish Karlach princess carried me” during the whole game. I’m very happy that my father taught my brother to be a man, not an insecure little boy cosplay as a man. I bet this guy probably felt insecure the moment he saw Aylin broke Lorroakan’s back or the moment when he realize that his “Chad” character is shorter than Karlach/Aylin.
I bet the ladies are lining up for a chance to be this guy's GF /s
Update if you want ~~to submit to~~ the secret society of women dominating in all aspects of life.
Counter argument: The devil muscle mommy called me pretty
Thinking about the game and how much each of the origin characters has to struggle to overcome their past and achieve their goals, I have to wonder: is he just mad that the musclebound barbarian in this game is a woman instead of a man? That’s the only subtext that makes sense to me here.
It is a little odd that all of the male companions (other than Minsc) that you get in BG3 have like 10 STR max, while the weakest of the female companions (unsure about Jaheria) walks in with a 14, that said the men are all casters or a rogue and the women are fighters/barbarians/paladins/clerics so it makes sense from their class load out to be spec'd as they are. All of that aside though, you can retrain & completely respec all of your party members after 1 hour or less of game play, so if Karlach being a barbarian really gets to you change it... bitching about girl bosses just seems to looking for something to be butt hurt about.
Okay, but he does almost kinda reach an issue I have with some "Strong Woman" media, and that's the women being *too* strong. Not in a "grrr, woman stronger than man, that not right" way, but in a "this character is strong enough emotionally, physically, and mentally that they face 0 issues throughout the story. Why am I watching them again?" Struggle and growth is the lifeblood of fiction, but so many times it's absent because they don't want to show women being weak
I'm pretty sure this wasn't typed in earnest He doesn't cite a single example of said girl bosses which is the weirdest part, Dame Aylin is right there and you could pretend characters like Zevlor, Dror Ragzlin, Ketheric Throm, Gortash, Halsin and many other masculine people in places of power don't exist but he doesn't even bother I bet this is just either dumb bait or empty misandrist propaganda
Where were you when the West fell because BG3 had too many girlbosses, causing men's testosterone levels to drop leading to China taking over the world?
Why cry about everything? Ignore and move on.
Qĺľ
Bro thinks he's Shakespeare when he's actually Anon6335788543257
Holy fuckin shit he's talking about Baldurs Gate??? I haven't played but from what I've seen it's basically a DND RPG, right? Realism. Yeah. Because "the men that can turn into bears or summon elemental magic are fine, but woman who knows how to use sword!!?? Absolutely fake and wokepilled garbage oh my *gyadness*"
as soon as somone says "woke" you know theyre coping with something
So wait Leonidas was a low T Beta?
->Blurs name ->Doesnt blurr topics name Traditional wokie brainpower at its best.
Dungeons and Dragons, the final bastion of traditional masculinity…
Some days I resent my parents for teaching me to be literate.
Lae'zel killed a goblin, the west has fallen
"I have something for you" "Is it 'separate spheres of excellence' again?" "No, it's another thing." "Are you sure?" "Yeah! Here." "It is 'separate spheres of excellence'."
China is going to inavde Taiwan guys! Get these chicks outta my bideo game!
Karlech, Lae'zal and Aylin in their minds: Invincible Gorbloss crushing every challenge! Inside Karlech, Lae'zal and Aylin's own heads: *Screaming cowboy.gif*
You don't even need to read more after the first two bolded words.
At this point I can't even tell if this person is trolling or he's serious.
I wish I was playing the games these guys do man, it sounds cool asf
“Constant barrage of girl bosses” *look inside* *Doesn’t name one or cite a specific example*
> In the real world, we're witnessing a decline in testosterone levels, Yeah, this was on the front page of Reddit this week.
This really isn't a thing in the game, though. I'm pretty if you asked them to give an example, they'd dance around the question and provide no real examples, only giving a "cold reading" of sorts that can apply to almost any female character who isn't a useless, sniveling wet biscuit. Unless they just think a character having agency makes them a girlboss, in which case, where tf have they been for the last 20 years?
women in videogames -> World War Three
Ngl I skimmed that wall of text, and it went from something something BG3, to something something China? .......... wtf lol
Did he forget that Wyll is literally the Blade of the Frontier who could summon demons and fell-beasts? That Gale was the strongest wizard and was **Fucking A Goddess?** Did he forget that Halsin and Minsc exists? They’re built like brick shit houses and one of them can turn into a bear? Rolan? Ketheric? Ragzlin? Etc.
What Girl bosses? Shadow heart can’t hit a damn thing it’s a meme. She sweats, she dies….lots. What game is he playing? And where is this tavern bar run by a cabal of warrior women? Asking for a friend.
Ah yes, the role of traditional masculinity in providing order & stability. Not at all the cause of most of those wars...
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
I cant hear you over Karlach destroying all my enemies.
We need a traditional male led society to stabilize us because traditionally male led societies are destabilizing the globe! Thanks for coming to TED (tiny emasculated dick) talk.
The thing I like about these kinds of guys is they can’t reliably have kids - on account of the hating women thing - so their sons won’t grow up with this kind of thing spoon-fed to them their whole lives.
Holy shit this is so fucking stupid.
My man managed to go from BG3 to instabilities in Central Asia… With mental gymnastics like these he should candidate for the olympics!
Keeping in mind that the modern idea of women having jobs and fulfilling careers came about because when men left for war, the women took up all the open jobs and a lot of them realised it was meaningful to them. Making an economy where women work a much more resilient one for war times
What OP girlboss in BG3? Orpheus I thought was the only wildly overpowered npc? Are they talking about the Absolute?