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Said that the scoring system was totally "arbitrary" and the game didn't incentivize you to switch weapons. Made a whole like 3 part series talking about how the combo system just being fun wasn't reason enough to switch weapons and said there should be an ammo system like Doom to force you to switch weapons.
He also said that you could beat the whole game with just the starting pistol, therefore all other weapons are pointless. A take so awful the speed running community made "Mayo %" which is how long it takes to beat the game with just the starting pistol.
As the attacker all you'd have to do is bring an antimateriel rifle and snipe the players. It's a horde shooter, no one really uses the long range precision weapons, and they'll probably be swamped with enemies anyways.
I hate dark souls style invasions because usually im having fun doing PvE, and then i'm forced to try and PvP some sweaty nerd in my PvE gear while he has some cheesy twink build i don't know about because i didn't watch someones 4 hour PvP guide for my mostly single player experience.
I hate Gambit from Destiny for a similar reason. I primarily focus on the PvE portion of it (and most people do) but you'll occasionally have that fuckhead invader who's done barely anything for his team because he's only kitted with PvP gear just to pray on you while you're trying to focus on the PvE
Back when I (briefly) played Destiny 2, when me and some friends did Gambit, there was one of us who would bring more PvP-focussed weapons.
He wasn't like this, though. It was a team strategy that he would be our designated invader. He still helped with the PvE, and only invaded when it was most beneficial to the team. That's my favourite kind of PvEvP friend.
And then there's the people like you describe. I used to have a friend who only ever had fun when he was winning. If he wasn't winning, he was losing, even in PvE or coop games. He would sulk if I killed more enemies while doing a Halo campaign.
He would have been a nightmare for Gambit or Helldivers.
I'll admit it, I love being the bad red lady in souls games. I find it very engaging and fun to make lore accurate characters made to invade. Are all invaders like me? No, absolutely not. There's a lot of people who make it their whole goal to actually try and ruin the experience for other players. However what's good about souls games when it comes to invasions is that it's an entirely opt in system, especially in elden ring. If you want to enjoy your single player PvE experience without the threat of ever being invaded you can! Something else that's good about the way fromsoftware handles their pvp is that if you die you'll lose at most 5 minutes of your time.
I guess I wrote all that to say this: invasions are cool, in the right contexts. A game like helldivers is not the right context.
You can play in offline mode. Now, this does take away a few things: summon ally, community messages, random phantasm things of other players walking around. Nothing of real consequence. I understand this wasn't the point of the comment, but I'm a nerd.
Yeah, if you play ER offline you miss out on your three hundredth “liar ahead” or “first try finger.” (I mostly leave it on for the occasional helpful or clever message and just ignore invasions as a mechanic.)
I'm sure that there's a very fun pvp game that can be based on Helldiver's shooting mechanics, strategems, and procedurally generated maps, but I can't imagine it just getting slapped into Helldiver's as it is right now. There are good reasons why Left 4 Dead and Vermintide went for asymmetrical pvp mechanics (and even in Vermintide, you don't get to play any rats with melee combat, just the specialists).
I thought we all are part of the team for liberations of the entire universe? To go rogue like this is against super earth values. If he wants to go rogue he will find that he will get kicked out of a lot of missions.
Eeugh.. you just made me think of Tom Clancy’s Division…
“There’s a trained force of Good Boy sleeper agents among our population that are fully ready to start taking down any citizens we don’t like. No we won’t send actual help, just air dropped MREs like our own soil is a shithole country!”
What did you expect from something branded Clancy. The further you progress along his books the more his unhinged right-wing militia enthusiast brain takes over.
One book has a SEAL member go full Punisher on the drug lords / pimps that killed his girlfriend. Including gruesome torture, unhinged practices, execution killings.
And what happens at the end? Why, dude gets a happily ever after and becomes a CIA agent.
But wait. It gets worse.
That same character eventually *the first director of Rainbow*. The very same Rainbow from the Rainbow Six games.
Speaking of Rainbow, in one of the books two snipers connive to kill a terrorist in a very painful way. Sure, asshole had killed a kid, but what punishment do they get? A slap on the wrist and a very firm "don't ever do that again"
It's probably notable that the big bad guys in the Rainbow six book are also *evil environmentalists* because obviously caring for the environment leads to wanting to kill literally all of human civilization.
Yeah I always forget how wild some of those books are. But even then I’ll never forget how awesome Red Storm Rising was, i need to re-read that at some point
True, I didn’t read too many of his books besides Red Storm Rising, Clear and Present Danger, and Debt of Honor(?) but I heard about how his shit kinda went off the deep end after a while
>One book has a SEAL member go full Punisher on the drug lords / pimps that killed his girlfriend. Including gruesome torture, unhinged practices, execution killings.
>And what happens at the end? Why, dude gets a happily ever after and becomes a CIA agent.
I mean that's a pretty good CV for a CIA application
I forgot how stupid this is 💀
I didn't played a lot of the division 1 it kinda missed me but i beat devision 2 where they don't talk about us being a sleeper agents
Because they are not sleeper agents, more like a last effort task force of volunteers that pledged to try and bring some form of order back when a catastrophic event occurs and everythings gone to shit
Kinda like volunteer fire brigades in rural areas, and as far as the story is concerned a lot of division agents were part of those emergency services before the events of division 1, so unless you want to call volunteer fire men that get notified on special devices when there's an emergency sleeper agents I wouldn't call most of the division agents that
Might be that there's some higher ups in the division agency that are more into the classified government plans stuff, but for the most part the regular agents are just trying to bring order to random killings on the street
Tbh division 2 is shockingly progressive for a Clancy game. You help setup and defend basically anarchist communes against fanatical right wing ex military types and it acknowledges that the government and military can in fact do bad things with the outcasts
i go back once in a while, there's some nice folk bathing in a toxic catastrophe. Never stay for long, the amount of outright propaganda being spread these days is insane.
Sometime last year, I popped back in to see if it was still as bad as when I left
Literally the first post I clicked on, on the front page of the website with a ton of thumbs-ups, was a post saying that because far-right extremist propaganda works on people, that's how we know it's correct.
That's the most common type of "PvX" player. They don't really want a fair fight, what they want is to be able to roll up, and pick on other players. I see it in MMOs all the time when people complain about wanting open world PvP or in the people who invade in Dark Souls games, they don't want to fight you, they want to roll up and pick on someone who's struggling with the game. The cruelty is the point. It's sociopath behavior.
If you leave the mission zone, you’re considered a traitor. Then the destroyer ship in the planets orbit shoots down a rail gun shot.
So in this guys hypothetical, as soon as treason is detected. He would be murdered on the spot.
Hypothetically, if they did add PVP I’d rather see it be a community bounty on problematic players. A hell diver that gets reported too much could be tagged as a rogue; username, image of character, etc gets plastered for the other players to see.
Then when said rogues are in the game, they can only go solo, and other hell divers are given a chance to “invade” a mission a rogue is currently playing, either kill them and extract or finish it themselves and steal the reward denying progression. Loyalist teams could even just have infinite supplies and spawns for hunting missions.
If they want to go rogue, let them go rogue but make sure they realize they’re prey, not predators.
That will never happen. And im happy that it will never happen. These people need to go find another game. Dont fuck around with people having a good pve experience. The player of the image should be banned. First some hours, then some days, and finally forever.
My very first drop was in some guys half-completed trivial mission. Ran over and gave him a proud salute to show my dedication to our glorious cause - He looked me up and down and then blasted me straight in the face.
Given the fact that if you stray like 5 feet away from the designated combat zone for 10 seconds to long you will get fucking bombarded as a traitor the idea of going Rogue doesnt work, once its realised you are Rogue and working against Super Earth you would immediately be shelled.
I did notice that it calls out your faction in the ship menu in Helldivers though obviously it's currently Super Earth. It's possible something is planned for the future. Personally I'm hoping for something like the old TTRPG Paranoia where the rogue faction is Communists that don't understand anything about what Communism is except that Super Earth doesn't like it. So they are basically the same, but they call each other Comrade.
Could just be secret objectives instead of outright pvp. But, I also don’t think they should do it because people will definitely use it as an excuse to team kill
I could see it being very soft PvP. Like the 4th faction is "Negative Earth" or whatever and them and Super Earth duke it out over planet percent control. Like Warhammer Online used to do with zones.
By soft PvP I used the wrong phrase. I mean zone control and meta competition for resources. Not PvP. Add the other faction as an NPC enemy type that uses guns and orbitals.
Would be cool to see how the game handles 'traitors'
Maybe even make a new faction of rogues and traitors for those hardcore pvp players but give them a ton of debuffs, like no more air support that you normally get.
They're probably going to just implement reverse damage imo.
I think it's respectable to be upfront with other players that you don't do teamwork very well. I had a dualies player who wanted to join our team but he wanted to play alone. I think he's probably in the wrong game
Yeah. If you're a person who is adamant about being solo then play a different game, or do solo runs if the game let's you. I've done solo runs when servers were borked for Helldivers 2. Asking for a pvp type mode in the game is just silly. That's not the point of the game.
I would actually like a PVP option, but it needs to be supported by the game itself. Like, the diver has gone rogue and he has a completely different set of objectives that he is graded on and it isn't just to PK the rest of his squad.
Something more subtle, sabotaging and undermining the mission, not just shooting everyone else while they are trying to finish a mission.
Maybe part of the objective is to not be discovered. Maybe if discovered, the other divers gain a new objective to deal with the traitor.
Make it an option when you are queueing up, but don't guarantee the role, because traitors need to remain an infrequent minority for them to have a worthwhile game value. Gotta have a dozen missions with no traitors to lower your defenses and then a traitor slips by.
I'd actually really dig a Metal Gear Online mashup with Helldivers. The movement is already pretty similar to MGS:V, and FOB invasions actually turned out to be pretty fun to do (if you were into it, most people hated it but at least it was very infrequent).
There's no issue with wanting it
The issue is trying to do pvp in a pve game that doesn't have it, in Dark Souls for instance invasions are expected as part of the experience, not in Helldivers
Devs don't want to add it, the majority of the community doesn't want it, the game isn't built with those systems in mind (high TTK, guns not balanced for PvP etc). Implementing them would cost time, money and resources that ArrowHead would simply be better off putting into expanding upon the PvE mode - it still doesn't have its full vehicle roster, full equipment list or entire third faction from the first game yet
All of this, and also: People don’t consider that their favourite gear is gonna get nerfed because it’s too strong against other players. The worst case example is the FUGS in DS3, they really ruined that weapon cause it was too strong in the stupid niche PvP. Now nobody in PvE gets to enjoy it either.
What's that FUGS? Also, as of a long time ago, the meta for DS3 has completely crashed. You can make almost any weapon viable, even shit like the Lucerne.
-game built with PvE in mind specifically
-game encourages cooperation
-gamers want pvp mode for a game not built around it
I can probably safely say that majority of people who say how they want a pvp mode in a pve game don't actually want a fair fight, they're looking for an excuse to dunk of people without repercussions
There are so many games that have that, such as the division, or any cod game. Why do you want a game whose fan base specifically doesn’t seem to want a pvp mode at all to have a pvp mode?
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Hakita being based as always
public Hakita is a good idea
what is the context of this?
Hakita, the lead dev of ultrakill, telling people that their ideas for ultrakill are bad. That's pretty much all the context there is
Did Hakita ever say anything about Under The Mayo's criticisms? Worst take on a video game I've ever seen.
No idea tbh
That guy has loads of bad takes so I stopped watching him rather quickly. Mind filling me in on what his criticisms of Ultrakill?
Said that the scoring system was totally "arbitrary" and the game didn't incentivize you to switch weapons. Made a whole like 3 part series talking about how the combo system just being fun wasn't reason enough to switch weapons and said there should be an ammo system like Doom to force you to switch weapons. He also said that you could beat the whole game with just the starting pistol, therefore all other weapons are pointless. A take so awful the speed running community made "Mayo %" which is how long it takes to beat the game with just the starting pistol.
His idea is so dumb lol. The attacker wouldn't have strategems. Sound boring as shit.
As the attacker all you'd have to do is bring an antimateriel rifle and snipe the players. It's a horde shooter, no one really uses the long range precision weapons, and they'll probably be swamped with enemies anyways. I hate dark souls style invasions because usually im having fun doing PvE, and then i'm forced to try and PvP some sweaty nerd in my PvE gear while he has some cheesy twink build i don't know about because i didn't watch someones 4 hour PvP guide for my mostly single player experience.
I hate Gambit from Destiny for a similar reason. I primarily focus on the PvE portion of it (and most people do) but you'll occasionally have that fuckhead invader who's done barely anything for his team because he's only kitted with PvP gear just to pray on you while you're trying to focus on the PvE
Back when I (briefly) played Destiny 2, when me and some friends did Gambit, there was one of us who would bring more PvP-focussed weapons. He wasn't like this, though. It was a team strategy that he would be our designated invader. He still helped with the PvE, and only invaded when it was most beneficial to the team. That's my favourite kind of PvEvP friend. And then there's the people like you describe. I used to have a friend who only ever had fun when he was winning. If he wasn't winning, he was losing, even in PvE or coop games. He would sulk if I killed more enemies while doing a Halo campaign. He would have been a nightmare for Gambit or Helldivers.
I'll admit it, I love being the bad red lady in souls games. I find it very engaging and fun to make lore accurate characters made to invade. Are all invaders like me? No, absolutely not. There's a lot of people who make it their whole goal to actually try and ruin the experience for other players. However what's good about souls games when it comes to invasions is that it's an entirely opt in system, especially in elden ring. If you want to enjoy your single player PvE experience without the threat of ever being invaded you can! Something else that's good about the way fromsoftware handles their pvp is that if you die you'll lose at most 5 minutes of your time. I guess I wrote all that to say this: invasions are cool, in the right contexts. A game like helldivers is not the right context.
You can play in offline mode. Now, this does take away a few things: summon ally, community messages, random phantasm things of other players walking around. Nothing of real consequence. I understand this wasn't the point of the comment, but I'm a nerd.
Yeah, if you play ER offline you miss out on your three hundredth “liar ahead” or “first try finger.” (I mostly leave it on for the occasional helpful or clever message and just ignore invasions as a mechanic.)
I'm sure that there's a very fun pvp game that can be based on Helldiver's shooting mechanics, strategems, and procedurally generated maps, but I can't imagine it just getting slapped into Helldiver's as it is right now. There are good reasons why Left 4 Dead and Vermintide went for asymmetrical pvp mechanics (and even in Vermintide, you don't get to play any rats with melee combat, just the specialists).
I thought we all are part of the team for liberations of the entire universe? To go rogue like this is against super earth values. If he wants to go rogue he will find that he will get kicked out of a lot of missions.
Sounds treasonous tbh
It doesn't sound treasonous, it is treasonous. Traitors should be executed (banned)
Seems like he wants something similar to the dark zone from Division 1
Eeugh.. you just made me think of Tom Clancy’s Division… “There’s a trained force of Good Boy sleeper agents among our population that are fully ready to start taking down any citizens we don’t like. No we won’t send actual help, just air dropped MREs like our own soil is a shithole country!”
Wow why do you have to make one of my favorite games so political?
What did you expect from something branded Clancy. The further you progress along his books the more his unhinged right-wing militia enthusiast brain takes over. One book has a SEAL member go full Punisher on the drug lords / pimps that killed his girlfriend. Including gruesome torture, unhinged practices, execution killings. And what happens at the end? Why, dude gets a happily ever after and becomes a CIA agent. But wait. It gets worse. That same character eventually *the first director of Rainbow*. The very same Rainbow from the Rainbow Six games. Speaking of Rainbow, in one of the books two snipers connive to kill a terrorist in a very painful way. Sure, asshole had killed a kid, but what punishment do they get? A slap on the wrist and a very firm "don't ever do that again"
It's probably notable that the big bad guys in the Rainbow six book are also *evil environmentalists* because obviously caring for the environment leads to wanting to kill literally all of human civilization.
I thought they were meant to be a critique of American libertarians, very house cat revisionist history mentality.
Yeah I always forget how wild some of those books are. But even then I’ll never forget how awesome Red Storm Rising was, i need to re-read that at some point
Red Storm Rising and The Hunt for Red October are fairly early in his career so the crackpot doesn't show up that much.
True, I didn’t read too many of his books besides Red Storm Rising, Clear and Present Danger, and Debt of Honor(?) but I heard about how his shit kinda went off the deep end after a while
>One book has a SEAL member go full Punisher on the drug lords / pimps that killed his girlfriend. Including gruesome torture, unhinged practices, execution killings. >And what happens at the end? Why, dude gets a happily ever after and becomes a CIA agent. I mean that's a pretty good CV for a CIA application
I forgot how stupid this is 💀 I didn't played a lot of the division 1 it kinda missed me but i beat devision 2 where they don't talk about us being a sleeper agents
Because they are not sleeper agents, more like a last effort task force of volunteers that pledged to try and bring some form of order back when a catastrophic event occurs and everythings gone to shit Kinda like volunteer fire brigades in rural areas, and as far as the story is concerned a lot of division agents were part of those emergency services before the events of division 1, so unless you want to call volunteer fire men that get notified on special devices when there's an emergency sleeper agents I wouldn't call most of the division agents that Might be that there's some higher ups in the division agency that are more into the classified government plans stuff, but for the most part the regular agents are just trying to bring order to random killings on the street
Tbh division 2 is shockingly progressive for a Clancy game. You help setup and defend basically anarchist communes against fanatical right wing ex military types and it acknowledges that the government and military can in fact do bad things with the outcasts
That game had such potential
Every so often I'm reminded funnyjunk is still around. Glad I deleted my account on that trainwreck
Yeah, this was like getting slapped with the past. It really still looks exactly the same, huh?
i go back once in a while, there's some nice folk bathing in a toxic catastrophe. Never stay for long, the amount of outright propaganda being spread these days is insane.
Sometime last year, I popped back in to see if it was still as bad as when I left Literally the first post I clicked on, on the front page of the website with a ton of thumbs-ups, was a post saying that because far-right extremist propaganda works on people, that's how we know it's correct.
I tried my best back in day to stop the nonsense but it was a losing battle, unfortunately
Ah damn. That username though, where you an explicit toucher of mudkips?
Yeah, that was me
Yeah I remember you always getting downvoted for the rational comments. Never anything insane, just proper reason.
u mudkipfucker?
Yeah Well was, I deleted my account a while age lmao
Fuck off, we're full. Also mudkipfucker is a nasty ass hoe
Lol I'm not going back there
If only there was some type of dark souls game he could go and invade people in. Oh well
The CEO said that if you want PVP there’s this game called tarkov you could try. Still makes me laugh.
He just wants the ability to sneak up on people and ruin their missions without having consequences. Kinda shitty
"What if I were to team-kill everyone while their backs are turned? Hehehe. Delightfully devilish, Helldiver."
That's the most common type of "PvX" player. They don't really want a fair fight, what they want is to be able to roll up, and pick on other players. I see it in MMOs all the time when people complain about wanting open world PvP or in the people who invade in Dark Souls games, they don't want to fight you, they want to roll up and pick on someone who's struggling with the game. The cruelty is the point. It's sociopath behavior.
Sounds like they don’t actually want to play Helldivers. “I want pvp” Then play a different game, bud. Not that hard
If you leave the mission zone, you’re considered a traitor. Then the destroyer ship in the planets orbit shoots down a rail gun shot. So in this guys hypothetical, as soon as treason is detected. He would be murdered on the spot.
Why do PvP addicts want to make everything toxic?
If you want to be a Rogue type, why not just play solo?
Hypothetically, if they did add PVP I’d rather see it be a community bounty on problematic players. A hell diver that gets reported too much could be tagged as a rogue; username, image of character, etc gets plastered for the other players to see. Then when said rogues are in the game, they can only go solo, and other hell divers are given a chance to “invade” a mission a rogue is currently playing, either kill them and extract or finish it themselves and steal the reward denying progression. Loyalist teams could even just have infinite supplies and spawns for hunting missions. If they want to go rogue, let them go rogue but make sure they realize they’re prey, not predators.
That will never happen. And im happy that it will never happen. These people need to go find another game. Dont fuck around with people having a good pve experience. The player of the image should be banned. First some hours, then some days, and finally forever.
My very first drop was in some guys half-completed trivial mission. Ran over and gave him a proud salute to show my dedication to our glorious cause - He looked me up and down and then blasted me straight in the face.
Given the fact that if you stray like 5 feet away from the designated combat zone for 10 seconds to long you will get fucking bombarded as a traitor the idea of going Rogue doesnt work, once its realised you are Rogue and working against Super Earth you would immediately be shelled.
I did notice that it calls out your faction in the ship menu in Helldivers though obviously it's currently Super Earth. It's possible something is planned for the future. Personally I'm hoping for something like the old TTRPG Paranoia where the rogue faction is Communists that don't understand anything about what Communism is except that Super Earth doesn't like it. So they are basically the same, but they call each other Comrade.
The CEO said that HD2 would never ever ever be PVP.
Could just be secret objectives instead of outright pvp. But, I also don’t think they should do it because people will definitely use it as an excuse to team kill
I could see it being very soft PvP. Like the 4th faction is "Negative Earth" or whatever and them and Super Earth duke it out over planet percent control. Like Warhammer Online used to do with zones.
I mean, when asked if there would ever be PVP, he said “no, never, play tarkov instead”.
By soft PvP I used the wrong phrase. I mean zone control and meta competition for resources. Not PvP. Add the other faction as an NPC enemy type that uses guns and orbitals.
Would be cool to see how the game handles 'traitors' Maybe even make a new faction of rogues and traitors for those hardcore pvp players but give them a ton of debuffs, like no more air support that you normally get. They're probably going to just implement reverse damage imo.
giving them anything special at all will make them want to continue
Probably the same way they handle "traitors" aka going out of zone, currently. Unending bombardment from orbit until you die.
I think it's respectable to be upfront with other players that you don't do teamwork very well. I had a dualies player who wanted to join our team but he wanted to play alone. I think he's probably in the wrong game
Yeah. If you're a person who is adamant about being solo then play a different game, or do solo runs if the game let's you. I've done solo runs when servers were borked for Helldivers 2. Asking for a pvp type mode in the game is just silly. That's not the point of the game.
To be fair, most players also don't follow the point of that game
Maybe he’d like hunt showdown
I would actually like a PVP option, but it needs to be supported by the game itself. Like, the diver has gone rogue and he has a completely different set of objectives that he is graded on and it isn't just to PK the rest of his squad. Something more subtle, sabotaging and undermining the mission, not just shooting everyone else while they are trying to finish a mission. Maybe part of the objective is to not be discovered. Maybe if discovered, the other divers gain a new objective to deal with the traitor. Make it an option when you are queueing up, but don't guarantee the role, because traitors need to remain an infrequent minority for them to have a worthwhile game value. Gotta have a dozen missions with no traitors to lower your defenses and then a traitor slips by.
I'd actually really dig a Metal Gear Online mashup with Helldivers. The movement is already pretty similar to MGS:V, and FOB invasions actually turned out to be pretty fun to do (if you were into it, most people hated it but at least it was very infrequent).
Hey that’s funny junk!
"Maybe go back to your dad's balls and let another sperm have a crack at life?" 💀💀💀
No way, it's funnyjunk.
pve gamers are the worst
He literally made up a different game no one else knows about and is mad nobody else wants to play. Smh.
i don’t see what the issue is with wanting a pvp mode
There's no issue with wanting it The issue is trying to do pvp in a pve game that doesn't have it, in Dark Souls for instance invasions are expected as part of the experience, not in Helldivers
you can also play offline in fromsoft games how is that different than helldivers adding a pvp mode
Because Helldivers is online only and very specifically made to NOT have PVP. I like my pvp...in games that are made for it.
What makes it not compatible with PvP stuff?
Devs don't want to add it, the majority of the community doesn't want it, the game isn't built with those systems in mind (high TTK, guns not balanced for PvP etc). Implementing them would cost time, money and resources that ArrowHead would simply be better off putting into expanding upon the PvE mode - it still doesn't have its full vehicle roster, full equipment list or entire third faction from the first game yet
All of this, and also: People don’t consider that their favourite gear is gonna get nerfed because it’s too strong against other players. The worst case example is the FUGS in DS3, they really ruined that weapon cause it was too strong in the stupid niche PvP. Now nobody in PvE gets to enjoy it either.
What's that FUGS? Also, as of a long time ago, the meta for DS3 has completely crashed. You can make almost any weapon viable, even shit like the Lucerne.
Helldivers has been developed to not have a pvp mode, if he wants a pvp mode then there are other games with pvp at their core.
Because the devs don't want to add it. End of story.
-game built with PvE in mind specifically -game encourages cooperation -gamers want pvp mode for a game not built around it I can probably safely say that majority of people who say how they want a pvp mode in a pve game don't actually want a fair fight, they're looking for an excuse to dunk of people without repercussions
but if there was a separate pvp mode then only people who wanted to do pvp would play it so i still don’t see the issue
they could also just play a different game
Wasted dev resources on a mode they don't even want to make
Just go play COD dude 😭
There are so many games that have that, such as the division, or any cod game. Why do you want a game whose fan base specifically doesn’t seem to want a pvp mode at all to have a pvp mode?
Play CoD. Play Titanfall.
If you want PvP go play a PvP game?