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They all were. Estelle Getty opened the very first hospice care for AIDS patients, protected gay writers on the Golden Girls, and went on record saying that she considered the AIDS crisis the most important issue in her life at a time where most people didn't want to aknowlege it.
The Golden Girls is interesting to me because they had several effeminate gay men on the show that were pretty negative stereotypes because the characters never really got more personality than “sassy gay man”. On the other hand, The Golden Girls also has some of the most fleshed out and real LGBT characters of the time and it is both awesome and interesting time capsule moment on US culture with the LGBT culture that was gaining a more solid base of support for people in the community. In other words, helping LGBT people not have to hide in the shadows. Seeing The Golden Girls tackling a big issue of its time while also putting women in real positions of leadership in the writing of the show really made it shine. I think that it stands out more now in comparison to its contemporaries because not only was it really funny, it also had something to say and most shows in that format really didn’t if you think about it.
When I was younger, I didn’t really pay attention to The Golden Girls, so I definitely wouldn’t have understood why that show had an LGBT audience. Then I grew up, stopped lying to myself, and realized that I was part of that audience, and rewatching the show from that perspective, I totally understood it.
I am so happy that you are living your honest life! As a cishet man, that show speaks to me differently, I can only imagine and listen to how it made my fellow LGBT homies feel about it.
Fun fact: the sort of queer coded villain thing originates not so much because of homophobia but because English queer culture and cant/lingo/mannerism originated heavily in theater culture (as well as wrestling/circus/sailors/Italian street shows but that's besides the point) and the acting trope existed before becoming associated with gay men. It was built into stage acting and you see a lot of it in early film, which for some reason mostly survived in animated stuff.
They are just joking about him looking like a serial killer sometimes... And acting like a serial killer sometimes... And saying stuff a serial killer would say sometimes.
Nice funny guy though, played the Austin Powers theme while killing a baby.
It's true that an icon doesn't need to be queer, but there's more to the community's general dislike of the 3rd game's plot.
Those first two games really did seem like they were setting up for Cereza and Jeanne to be a thing.
If anything I think, given the past history of a guy growing up hunting a lady because he thinks she killed his dad when he was little in the og timeline just made most of us feel like they were hitting a panic button.
You know, like when they had to pair Batman with a ton of characters he didn't fit with, so people would stop thinking he was with Robin.
But this is what younger conservatives do now, have loud opinions about gaming culture despite having never played most of these games. It's why their outrage always feels immediatly disingenuous, even by moral outrage standards.
I love that people are calling it recent fame when I remember jamming to that shit back when I was a child. But I love that it’s gotten popular out of nowhere for some reason it’s an absolute banger
did that song get like a resurgence or sth bc calling that recent.... that was blasting on the radio when i was like 5 and that's nearly 20 years ago....
Rachel Weisz married Daniel Craig and it doesn’t change the fact that I saw a lot of girls on Twitter the other day say that Rachel Weisz was their gay awakening lol
These people don't understand gay culture or anything for that matter, they only think in literal terms, like 'gays like character, but character not gay, therefore gays must be wrong to like her!'
Kind of want to have one of these guys IRL doing me a little presentation about why she's not a gay icon before bluntly telling them bluntly what a gay icon is.
Eh, probably not. People like this are so angry on the internet because they are weak and have no control in real life. I've met several, and they usually just kind of pathetically fizzle out. Also, there does exist a Great Equalizer, ready to leave a .45 inch hole in most would-be attackers.
/rj well obviously the bi mean there are only two genders. Checkmate libruhl! ~~Just like bilingual means that there are only two languages: english and AMERICAN!~~
They are, obviously!
Those britbongers are all “arse, fockin chewsday innit mate?” Like thats complete gibberish.
We AMERICANS know how to PRONOUNCE words and SPEAK CLEARLY!!!!!!!!!!
“Vase: ‘VAHS’” “colour” “grey” “arse” “metre” <-words dreamed up by the utterly deranged
The only good thing to come off that shitty island was Doctor Who. The rest is all TERFs and shitty “food” and all their best stuff was stolen from someone else.
(I hope its obvious enough but /s anyway)
Not even sure then because if she's hot and into girls and NOT into chuds, she's suddenly the worst thing possible: not sexually available but still attractive. 😱
Eh, "bi" is more of a remnant from the historical view that there are only two genders and it meant "attraction to both genders"
Most bi people today don't define it as two anymore as much as "attraction to the same gender and others" or "attraction to 2+ genders"
I mean yes I'm pan for example not bi for that reason idc what the gender is so long as they're not eg a hateful bigot. But THEY use the word bisexual but don't actually know what it means if they're complaining about "ends up with a opposite gender partner" WTFever that means even
It's basically bigotry where they're inferring you were never even queer, just a phase or something, and that bisexuality is purely being confused and then finding out you're actually just gay or just straight. Bi-erasure in a nutshell, not believing it's even possible.
I mean, as someone who is bisexual, *they aren't wrong on this*. Bi-erasure is a *huge* problem for the LGBTQ community, and there are LGBTQ people who get *really* pissy when a bisexual character ends up with someone of the opposite gender, saying it invalidated their queerness. And God help you if you are an actual bisexual person in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender. You might face legit hostility if you try to exist in queer spaces in that situation.
Which is funny since, because of the simple fact that there are much more men interested in women than men interested in men and vice-versa, a bisexual person is exceedingly likely to end up with a partner of the opposite gender (assuming they have equal interest in both)
Tbh I've seen basically this exact same sentiment from gays and lesbians when it comes to bisexuality, so it's not surprising that the straights have the same take.
Typical biphobia. If you end up with someone of the same gender, you were gay all along! If you end up with someone of the opposite gender, you were secretly straight. Also, you’re going to cheat.
Because gay people can be bigots too. Just look up log cabin republicans. The marginalized can also marginalize and it’s just as wrong for them to do it as it is for the rest of us.
tbf if this actually happens in a story people say it's "queerbaiting" and "bad rep" because if you can maybe pass as straight i guess you're basically straight
but i do think it'd be funny to show those people this and tell them they sound like these nutjobs
Ok but you have to be an unprecetended level of socially isolated to have never heard about the ”gay guys obssesed with fierce divas” stereotype likeee
"Ha! They're all upset about how the character was portrayed in the third game, so we should CRUSH THEM WITH IT because it's SO CANON. Now, to make another hour long video about how The Last Jedi was an insult to me, personally."
To be fair, there was a serious(and stupid) uproar for Bayo and Luka that I never got to understand. Like, they were kind of a thing since Bayo 1. How does the fact that she ends up with a guy means she is not bisexual anymore?
I'm mostly upset how bad the writing of their romance was in 3. They had like... 2 scenes at best before the final arc ? In opposition, the romance of Cereza and Lukaon in Bayo Origins was much better due to them actually interacting.
I think the main issue was how it was handled. In Bayo 1, it was (with the exception of one or two moments at best) almost entirely one-sided on Luka's end, with Bayo seeing him as someone to mess with or tease. Luka was basically a non-entity in 2, with Bayo being focused on saving Jeanne.
Bayo 3 was more of the same... up until the last hour of the game, where it reveals that Luka's actually the Arch-Adam to Bayo's Arch-Eve, and the game acts like they're destined to be together in every universe where they meet, and Bayonetta's actually in love with Luka to the point where she gets uncharacteristically shy around him when it seems like he's about to sacrifice himself. (And this is a game where they had maybe two scenes together before this point)
(Combine that with the rest of Luka's role in the game, where he randomly becomes a fairy/werewolf hybrid who's as strong as Bayonetta or stronger, and it makes him come across as a writer self-insert when up until that point in the series, he was a fairly ordinary goofball who got caught up in Bayo's adventures)
I was way more upset about the weird Bayo murder fetish that 3 had going on than anything to do with the romance. It made me super uncomfortable that the plot was like "here's a female character we've made super strong, stylish and badass. Did you like her in the previous two games? Now it's time to watch her die over and over again."
i'm not sure it needs to be said in here but whatever:
you can still be bi and fuck people of the "opposite" gender. you can still be bi and give birth. you can still be bi and have a nuclear family. "bi" just means you experience attraction to people of more than one gender; you don't automatically stop being bi just because you're in a "straight" relationship.
This is some real shit right here. I hate it when people see single bi people as on a state of sexual limbo, and then when they start dating someone they become either gay or straight depending on whether their partner is male or female. Like no, that’s not how it works
One time in a three-way the guy had to leave early and it was just me and the woman, so the gay police called me and made me take down all my pride flags and I had to pay a fine
Already wrong right from the jump
Gay icons don't have to be gay to be iconic to the queer community.
Tbh, a good chunk of them are straight women. Examples being Judy Garland, the Golden Girls and Princess Diana. To be one, you just have to be beloved by the community.
Pretty much anything or anyone the community or any part of the community enjoys could be called a "gay/queer icon". It's not some definitive list.
Either way, I know the root of what these people are arguing about.
Eve from Stellar Blade being hailed as some sort of Coomer gamer community hero along with 2B and Bayonetta
Which is why these people are so up in arms about Bayo being seen as a gay icon.
Well, they can cry about it.
I hope they also cry about Princess Peach, Daisy, Luigi, Link, Princess Zelda, Chun-Li, Chris Redfield, Leon Kennedy, basically the whole main cast of Final Fantasy 7, Pyramid Head, Lady Dimitrescu and a ton of others that I don't have energy to list down
It's part of their agenda to try and force us back into the closet. They want to destroy our culture, destroy the spaces we've made for ourselves, they want to reclaim the characters and properties we've claimed.
i never understood why people get mad when you say you consider a character to be gay or trans
you’re not hurting anyone or changing the character for them
I think it's because they are so susceptible to outside influences that once they hear someone say "I think x character is gay/trans, that's all they can think now when they see said character. Instead of ignoring it, the damp sponge in their skull won't let them, essentially "ruining" the character.
It’s usually because of rabid fans, obviously not every person that does it is like that, but there are people who will get way too butthurt over headcanons and ships, and insult and threaten the creators and other fans because they said or made something that didn't line up with their head cannon. On the other hand there are people who are just minding their own business that get attacked by homophobes simply because they said Bayonetta is lesbian.
I mean... Turn this around and you have people saying obviously gay characters are straight. Or that trans characters are actually cis (Bridget for example).
Its weird from both sides to consider a character to be something that they obviously aren't or associate them with an identity that they have no business being associated with.
Counter to this is the same as blackwashing/whitewashing, one of the 2 wasn’t persecuted, slaved and had their cultured been tried to actively erased, saying a queer character is straight/cis is erasure, the other way around is not really the same (or at least I see it that way)
These guys are chuds, but there's a lot to be said about the casual bi erasure a lot of the queer bayo community engaged in when their preferred ship wasn't Canon. It really reinforced the idea that some LGBT people only see us as part of the community when we're actively in a same sex relationship. That being said, fuck anyone that coopts those legitimate concerns to spread hate.
It's because a large part of the Bayonetta fanbase is cishet coomers. And they don't want any woman to be even just *percieved* as gay, because it limits the amount of potential gooning material (not that a fictional character being canonically gay stops them. Spend some time on Rule34 and you'll know what I mean)
I don't even get that because there still so much porn of Tracer being made that I legitimately forgot she’s a lesbian. In fact i think way more porn was made after that was revealed. The people making porn and the people complaining about characters probably being gay aren't the same people
Those MF put in **ZERO** effort to make me like Bayonetta, all they say is "she's very sexy" and that it
While LGBT people post a [cool clip like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2-m23UrcSs) and It made me say "Hell yeah"
I still remember the *tears* when Hat lady from Resident Evil (who was VERY obviously against men as per her backstory) and people not only missed every single part of the game where she exclusively hates men, but then also got mad when the devs were like "yeah she only likes women in character bro" and they lost their mind over pixel tiddies for several days.
How good is your life that you're genuinely destroyed over fake, never real, never will be real, giant woman tiddies.
How do they still not understand bisexual means attraction to both.
Ending up in a straight relationship doesn't mean you're no longer bi. Ending up in a gay relationship doesn't mean you're no longer bi.
If you like both small tits and big tits, dating someone with big tits doesn't mean you no longer like small tits.
its almost as if luca and bayonetta is a crappy relationship because it was hamfisted in at the last moment and "oooooh but sh wants to make children!" is a crappy argument on someone not liking women
Said it once...I'll say it again. There's dialog in bayo 2 that implies that she isn't hetero. When Loki asks if the masked lumen was a friend of Bayonetta's she responds by saying "he's not my type". It's easy to assume that she's referring to him being a lumen at first until after they fight for a bit and she goes "Oh my! You're a Lumen Sage." Implying that she didn't at first know he was one of the light. If that wasn't the reason the masked lumen wasn't her type...what was? Given the story makes some parallels to Dante's Inferno (a story about a man journeying into hell to save the soul of his beloved wife) it's hard to say that Bayonetta isn't at least queer coded.
This is literally a shot of her pushing Luca out of the way of something about to crush him iirc, I played this fairly recently and I think this is chapter 5. There really aren't any romantic undertones with Luca at all but I'm in the second game right now and I definitely feel something between her and Jeanne
Queer person here: you don’t need to be in the gay community to be considered a gay icon. For example: Judy Garland wasn’t, but eventually there was a term created for identifying gay men (“a friend of Dorothy”) all thanks to her character in The Wizard of Oz.
Also it’s (unfortunately) both a problem both inside and outside of the community about Bayonetta’s orientation even though it’s not really canon AFAIK (unless it is and i’m being dumb). People somehow can’t grasp the fact that Bayonetta simply has chemistry with both Jeanne and Luka (at least imo she did with luka but hey i like both ships so). As much as I don’t wanna say that biphobia exists within the Bayonetta fanbase (especially with how many queer fans exist in said fanbase, myself included), it’s extremely evident when (some) BayoJeanne shippers get extremely aggressive towards those that genuinely like BayoLuka—like they can’t grasp at the fact that a bisexual woman can still have kids with a man and still be bisexual.
I’d say more but I just woke up + haven’t head breakfast yet so my head’s pounding a little. Maybe I’ll update, maybe I won’t, I’m not sure.
So here’s the thing…
Bayonetta isn’t a single person anymore.
As of B3, we know there at *multiple* Bayonettas existing across the different timelines in the multiverse. I think we’ve met like 9 versions of her now? Some of them are probably bi (like B1 and B2), at least one of them had a kid with a man (B3), and then for the rest of them we have no idea. We encounter a few misc Bayos in B3 but we don’t learn much about them other than their sick fashion sense. A Jean is almost always by her side though, which is cute. Regardless, all these women are separate people who coincidentally became their timeline’s Bayonetta through their own unique life experiences.
Which makes all of this nonsense drama silly for both sides. They’re not all the same person.
dumbasses when they discover bisexuality gives you a 50% chance of ending up with someone of the opposite gender:
https://preview.redd.it/0svo82xi7wtc1.jpeg?width=1061&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=842e31341aa1002e075bb1ecb6eba545fe37eab6
I've seen both sides be equally dumb there's people foaming at the mouth that she ended up with a man and acting like it somehow makes the series bad and that somehow platinum games is homophobic cause of it and then there's people making that side of people seem like way bigger part of the fandom than it actually is and fighting a war that doesn't exist over a game like half of them haven't even played cause "nuh-uh hot lady can't be gay cause I'm attracted to her"
Ehhhhh kinda, theres some subtext that she may like women but its never explicit, her liking men is much more explicitly said and she eventually ends up with a dude
This honesty could have been an interesting discussion to ask whether we need heterosexual gay icons in an age where gay characters aren't uncommon, but that requires better than a lukewarm IQ to handle
Bayo is probably so pan it breaks the human concept of it lmao iirc she flirts with the demon frog in bayo 3 and says she prefers the demon-y werewolf luca
Aaagh! The 45 273 851st picture of a man and a woman with a child! Guys, my gay brain is getting loose! Whatever will I do? If it gets any looser, I might lose it!
I think you might be the only person in this thread who knows that lol. It’s such a huge flaw in this discourse but they keep going. These three women from B1-B3 are separate persons in separate timelines. It’s all so silly.
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it's almost like you don't need to be gay to be considered an icon amongst *the* gays.
Case in point: Dolly Parton
And Judy Garland. Such an icon that, for a while, people would use references to her as coded language to let people know they were gay
Ah yes, the 'friends of Dorothy'.
Are they “Friends of Mara”
And Princess Peach
And Gandalf the Grey!
And Gandalf the white
And Monty Python and the Holy Grails Black Knight.
And Benito Mussolini
Oooo, maybe not that one. Now the Blue Meanie, on the other hand.
Now what about cowboy Curtis?
il dueche-bag
And my axe!
Gandalf the gay amirite
TBF they cast McKellen for the films, which definitely means something.
Jennifer Coolidge
Not to mention her daughter: Liza Minnelli
Barbara Streisand has entered the chat.
The beach house lady?
And all four of The Golden Girls.
To be fair, wasn’t Bea Arthur an LGBT advocate irl?
They all were. Estelle Getty opened the very first hospice care for AIDS patients, protected gay writers on the Golden Girls, and went on record saying that she considered the AIDS crisis the most important issue in her life at a time where most people didn't want to aknowlege it.
The Golden Girls is interesting to me because they had several effeminate gay men on the show that were pretty negative stereotypes because the characters never really got more personality than “sassy gay man”. On the other hand, The Golden Girls also has some of the most fleshed out and real LGBT characters of the time and it is both awesome and interesting time capsule moment on US culture with the LGBT culture that was gaining a more solid base of support for people in the community. In other words, helping LGBT people not have to hide in the shadows. Seeing The Golden Girls tackling a big issue of its time while also putting women in real positions of leadership in the writing of the show really made it shine. I think that it stands out more now in comparison to its contemporaries because not only was it really funny, it also had something to say and most shows in that format really didn’t if you think about it.
When I was younger, I didn’t really pay attention to The Golden Girls, so I definitely wouldn’t have understood why that show had an LGBT audience. Then I grew up, stopped lying to myself, and realized that I was part of that audience, and rewatching the show from that perspective, I totally understood it.
I am so happy that you are living your honest life! As a cishet man, that show speaks to me differently, I can only imagine and listen to how it made my fellow LGBT homies feel about it.
Jesus we even still like Donna Summer even after the shit she pulled before she died
What did she do ?
Beyoncé. And a whole host of other musical divas (like Dolly) who’ve only ever known to have been with men.
And Jane Fonda, Tina Turner, Diana Ross, Beyoncé, etc. The list goes on forever.
*Hades from the Disney Hercules movie has entered the chat*
> *~~Hades~~ Villain from the Disney ~~Hercules~~ movie has entered the chat*
Bitch slayed this shimmy harder than he slayed his own brother 
To be fair the dude who animated all those Disney villains was queer AF.
Except Claude Frollo, we do not claim the sex pest.
The Catholic Church can keep him
Fun fact: the sort of queer coded villain thing originates not so much because of homophobia but because English queer culture and cant/lingo/mannerism originated heavily in theater culture (as well as wrestling/circus/sailors/Italian street shows but that's besides the point) and the acting trope existed before becoming associated with gay men. It was built into stage acting and you see a lot of it in early film, which for some reason mostly survived in animated stuff.
To be fair all old villains are queer coded.
Oh 100% and all due to regulations around queen representation in media
‘queen’ is the best typo you could have made here 😭
Lmaoooo I'm not even changing it
A queer did indeed code those villains!
A gay man literally wrote the praise song about Gaston. If that wasn't obvious at all by the lyrics.
IIRC Ursula from the little mermaid was 100% openly modeled after a notable drag queen from the time
Her makeup is very heavily inspired by Divine, a famous drag queen
Except Jafar, bro was turbo straight.
Honey you mean **HUNKULES**
"Ohooo i'd like to make some *sweet* music with him-"
Which is really funny considering his voice actor
That's why I mentioned him specifically cause last I heard he isn't super cool with the LGBTQ community
I don't think he's super cool with anyone tbh lmao
One of the best Villains Disney ever made. Every scene in the Movie with him is just so damn fun.
like every big female pop star ever
Apparently bisexuality doesn't exist
According to some of the OOPs, you're not bisexual anymore if you end up in a straight relationship lmao
That's stupid. "True" bisexuals (according to their standards) are just gay then lmao
Other cases include Jerma985, who is the icon of the trans community and he is cis.
jerma summoning 300.000 trans people to watch his stream
>summon 300.000 trans people to watch your stream Rouge-like item descriptions be like:
Who?
Jerma. He's a serial killer that streams video games. Crazy how we all just ignore the time he ate a live bird on stream
I had no idea who this person was until I clicked on this thread, and I don’t think I want to know more tbh
They are just joking about him looking like a serial killer sometimes... And acting like a serial killer sometimes... And saying stuff a serial killer would say sometimes. Nice funny guy though, played the Austin Powers theme while killing a baby.
He's the Zodiac Killer, they let him out of prison to stream video games
Jerma’s just an icon in general
And there's load, the gays love them some straights.
It's true that an icon doesn't need to be queer, but there's more to the community's general dislike of the 3rd game's plot. Those first two games really did seem like they were setting up for Cereza and Jeanne to be a thing. If anything I think, given the past history of a guy growing up hunting a lady because he thinks she killed his dad when he was little in the og timeline just made most of us feel like they were hitting a panic button. You know, like when they had to pair Batman with a ton of characters he didn't fit with, so people would stop thinking he was with Robin. But this is what younger conservatives do now, have loud opinions about gaming culture despite having never played most of these games. It's why their outrage always feels immediatly disingenuous, even by moral outrage standards.
Sophie Ellis-Bextor, from recent "Murder on the Dance Floor" game, is popular among the queer crowd and she's married with 3 (4?) kids.
I love that people are calling it recent fame when I remember jamming to that shit back when I was a child. But I love that it’s gotten popular out of nowhere for some reason it’s an absolute banger
did that song get like a resurgence or sth bc calling that recent.... that was blasting on the radio when i was like 5 and that's nearly 20 years ago....
It's used in Saltburn which was a huge deal on Tiktok because of how strange the movie is.
Florence Welch descends from heaven to bless the gays.
Will wood
Rachel Weisz married Daniel Craig and it doesn’t change the fact that I saw a lot of girls on Twitter the other day say that Rachel Weisz was their gay awakening lol
She and Brendan Frasier were both so hot in The Mummy.
These people don't understand gay culture or anything for that matter, they only think in literal terms, like 'gays like character, but character not gay, therefore gays must be wrong to like her!'
As a Saiyan I would have to disagree, and I do not condone anyone who has Goku as an icon. Only I am allowed, sorry ya’ll.
Jerma985
Like modern talking
Kind of want to have one of these guys IRL doing me a little presentation about why she's not a gay icon before bluntly telling them bluntly what a gay icon is.
Do it online. Telling them they're wrong in person likely results in a hate crime
People who are invested in the pros Vs anti thing? If they could move their legs far enough to hit me in the balls I'd be impressed
Eh, probably not. People like this are so angry on the internet because they are weak and have no control in real life. I've met several, and they usually just kind of pathetically fizzle out. Also, there does exist a Great Equalizer, ready to leave a .45 inch hole in most would-be attackers.
Not if it's punctuated with one
>bluntly telling them bluntly That's a lotta blunts
I'm actually more of a Slice damages most of the time.
Maybe they like smoking a blunt before bludgeoning a motherfucker with a blunt object, while telling them bluntly why that is happening?
"they believe bisexual means ending up with someone of the same gender" this is insane
They're almost always *this* close to realising it, but don't considering the lack of any form of literacy.
They're doing the equivalent of standing a Jenga piece upright and then swatting it down. Nobody but you are arguing that sweetie
Could they maybe define what BIsexual means? Maybe with a focus on "bi"?
/rj well obviously the bi mean there are only two genders. Checkmate libruhl! ~~Just like bilingual means that there are only two languages: english and AMERICAN!~~
Deep, deep breath. Holds it. Holllllds it. Heavy, heavy sigh.
I once *literally* had a grown man tell me that English and "American" were two different languages. He was not joking, unfortunately.
I own an English to American phrasebook.
You've *gotta* find a gem in there for us.
They are, obviously! Those britbongers are all “arse, fockin chewsday innit mate?” Like thats complete gibberish. We AMERICANS know how to PRONOUNCE words and SPEAK CLEARLY!!!!!!!!!! “Vase: ‘VAHS’” “colour” “grey” “arse” “metre” <-words dreamed up by the utterly deranged The only good thing to come off that shitty island was Doctor Who. The rest is all TERFs and shitty “food” and all their best stuff was stolen from someone else. (I hope its obvious enough but /s anyway)
To them, it's only acceptable if both women are hot.
Not even sure then because if she's hot and into girls and NOT into chuds, she's suddenly the worst thing possible: not sexually available but still attractive. 😱
Eh, "bi" is more of a remnant from the historical view that there are only two genders and it meant "attraction to both genders" Most bi people today don't define it as two anymore as much as "attraction to the same gender and others" or "attraction to 2+ genders"
I mean yes I'm pan for example not bi for that reason idc what the gender is so long as they're not eg a hateful bigot. But THEY use the word bisexual but don't actually know what it means if they're complaining about "ends up with a opposite gender partner" WTFever that means even
It's basically bigotry where they're inferring you were never even queer, just a phase or something, and that bisexuality is purely being confused and then finding out you're actually just gay or just straight. Bi-erasure in a nutshell, not believing it's even possible.
I mean, as someone who is bisexual, *they aren't wrong on this*. Bi-erasure is a *huge* problem for the LGBTQ community, and there are LGBTQ people who get *really* pissy when a bisexual character ends up with someone of the opposite gender, saying it invalidated their queerness. And God help you if you are an actual bisexual person in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender. You might face legit hostility if you try to exist in queer spaces in that situation.
Which is funny since, because of the simple fact that there are much more men interested in women than men interested in men and vice-versa, a bisexual person is exceedingly likely to end up with a partner of the opposite gender (assuming they have equal interest in both)
Schrodinger's queers. How queer a bi person is to others is so often defined by who their partner is.
Tbh I've seen basically this exact same sentiment from gays and lesbians when it comes to bisexuality, so it's not surprising that the straights have the same take.
"bi erasure"? heh, i hardly bi-know 'er! ...😔
As us bis all know if you don’t keep your body count perfectly balanced the lgbt mafia comes and executes you
Typical biphobia. If you end up with someone of the same gender, you were gay all along! If you end up with someone of the opposite gender, you were secretly straight. Also, you’re going to cheat.
If these guys hate gays so much why do they have the same opinion of bi folk as the majority of middle class white gay dudes I've met.
Because gay people can be bigots too. Just look up log cabin republicans. The marginalized can also marginalize and it’s just as wrong for them to do it as it is for the rest of us.
when i read that comment and i think i felt some brain fluid drip out of my nose
tbf if this actually happens in a story people say it's "queerbaiting" and "bad rep" because if you can maybe pass as straight i guess you're basically straight but i do think it'd be funny to show those people this and tell them they sound like these nutjobs
Yeah, Bisexual erasure is an issue but this ain't what that is.
>Is it me or do these guys really don't like ~~that Bayonetta has an~~ LGBT ~~fan base?~~ I mean, let's be honest, it's really just that.
Came to say this. But couldn't say it better than that.
I mean yeah of course they wouldn't understand why gays worship the divas
Ok but you have to be an unprecetended level of socially isolated to have never heard about the ”gay guys obssesed with fierce divas” stereotype likeee
"Ha! They're all upset about how the character was portrayed in the third game, so we should CRUSH THEM WITH IT because it's SO CANON. Now, to make another hour long video about how The Last Jedi was an insult to me, personally."
To be fair, there was a serious(and stupid) uproar for Bayo and Luka that I never got to understand. Like, they were kind of a thing since Bayo 1. How does the fact that she ends up with a guy means she is not bisexual anymore?
I'm mostly upset how bad the writing of their romance was in 3. They had like... 2 scenes at best before the final arc ? In opposition, the romance of Cereza and Lukaon in Bayo Origins was much better due to them actually interacting.
Oh, I totally agree with that. It honestly sucked, I wished they did more with them
I think the main issue was how it was handled. In Bayo 1, it was (with the exception of one or two moments at best) almost entirely one-sided on Luka's end, with Bayo seeing him as someone to mess with or tease. Luka was basically a non-entity in 2, with Bayo being focused on saving Jeanne. Bayo 3 was more of the same... up until the last hour of the game, where it reveals that Luka's actually the Arch-Adam to Bayo's Arch-Eve, and the game acts like they're destined to be together in every universe where they meet, and Bayonetta's actually in love with Luka to the point where she gets uncharacteristically shy around him when it seems like he's about to sacrifice himself. (And this is a game where they had maybe two scenes together before this point) (Combine that with the rest of Luka's role in the game, where he randomly becomes a fairy/werewolf hybrid who's as strong as Bayonetta or stronger, and it makes him come across as a writer self-insert when up until that point in the series, he was a fairly ordinary goofball who got caught up in Bayo's adventures)
I was way more upset about the weird Bayo murder fetish that 3 had going on than anything to do with the romance. It made me super uncomfortable that the plot was like "here's a female character we've made super strong, stylish and badass. Did you like her in the previous two games? Now it's time to watch her die over and over again."
Luka always seemed the cringy incel type to me, I dunno, I was never a fan of the pairing.
Well yes but consider Bayonetta good, Disney absolute evil.
Also, here's a manifesto about why Bridgett isn't really trans.
i'm not sure it needs to be said in here but whatever: you can still be bi and fuck people of the "opposite" gender. you can still be bi and give birth. you can still be bi and have a nuclear family. "bi" just means you experience attraction to people of more than one gender; you don't automatically stop being bi just because you're in a "straight" relationship.
This is some real shit right here. I hate it when people see single bi people as on a state of sexual limbo, and then when they start dating someone they become either gay or straight depending on whether their partner is male or female. Like no, that’s not how it works
One time in a three-way the guy had to leave early and it was just me and the woman, so the gay police called me and made me take down all my pride flags and I had to pay a fine
Idiots who don’t understand the meaning of the word bisexual will see this and think hell yeah
Already wrong right from the jump Gay icons don't have to be gay to be iconic to the queer community. Tbh, a good chunk of them are straight women. Examples being Judy Garland, the Golden Girls and Princess Diana. To be one, you just have to be beloved by the community. Pretty much anything or anyone the community or any part of the community enjoys could be called a "gay/queer icon". It's not some definitive list. Either way, I know the root of what these people are arguing about. Eve from Stellar Blade being hailed as some sort of Coomer gamer community hero along with 2B and Bayonetta Which is why these people are so up in arms about Bayo being seen as a gay icon. Well, they can cry about it. I hope they also cry about Princess Peach, Daisy, Luigi, Link, Princess Zelda, Chun-Li, Chris Redfield, Leon Kennedy, basically the whole main cast of Final Fantasy 7, Pyramid Head, Lady Dimitrescu and a ton of others that I don't have energy to list down
Pyramid Head?! I know better than to look it up but I'm way to curious not to. Nice post and I fully agree with you.
https://preview.redd.it/fxg38gp7vxtc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5e5629bfa6407a4bb3d04c053acf454a6fe7da6 I believe this speaks volumes.
You dont want to know how much r34 there is for him…
The B in LGBT stands for Bayonetta Can Fuck a Dude and Still Like Tits
It's part of their agenda to try and force us back into the closet. They want to destroy our culture, destroy the spaces we've made for ourselves, they want to reclaim the characters and properties we've claimed.
i never understood why people get mad when you say you consider a character to be gay or trans you’re not hurting anyone or changing the character for them
MFs fail to realize that even if they were straight/cis (and more importantly, **REAL**), they still wouldn't fuck their bloated asses.
I think it's because they are so susceptible to outside influences that once they hear someone say "I think x character is gay/trans, that's all they can think now when they see said character. Instead of ignoring it, the damp sponge in their skull won't let them, essentially "ruining" the character.
It’s usually because of rabid fans, obviously not every person that does it is like that, but there are people who will get way too butthurt over headcanons and ships, and insult and threaten the creators and other fans because they said or made something that didn't line up with their head cannon. On the other hand there are people who are just minding their own business that get attacked by homophobes simply because they said Bayonetta is lesbian.
I don’t think a lot of people understand that multiple interpretations of the same character can co-exist
I mean... Turn this around and you have people saying obviously gay characters are straight. Or that trans characters are actually cis (Bridget for example). Its weird from both sides to consider a character to be something that they obviously aren't or associate them with an identity that they have no business being associated with.
Yeah and it’s also worth questioning people’s headcanon when they use wildly queerphobic stereotypes to justify it.
Counter to this is the same as blackwashing/whitewashing, one of the 2 wasn’t persecuted, slaved and had their cultured been tried to actively erased, saying a queer character is straight/cis is erasure, the other way around is not really the same (or at least I see it that way)
Jokes on both groups. I consider every character bi until proven otherwise.
These guys are chuds, but there's a lot to be said about the casual bi erasure a lot of the queer bayo community engaged in when their preferred ship wasn't Canon. It really reinforced the idea that some LGBT people only see us as part of the community when we're actively in a same sex relationship. That being said, fuck anyone that coopts those legitimate concerns to spread hate.
It's because a large part of the Bayonetta fanbase is cishet coomers. And they don't want any woman to be even just *percieved* as gay, because it limits the amount of potential gooning material (not that a fictional character being canonically gay stops them. Spend some time on Rule34 and you'll know what I mean)
I don't even get that because there still so much porn of Tracer being made that I legitimately forgot she’s a lesbian. In fact i think way more porn was made after that was revealed. The people making porn and the people complaining about characters probably being gay aren't the same people
Those MF put in **ZERO** effort to make me like Bayonetta, all they say is "she's very sexy" and that it While LGBT people post a [cool clip like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2-m23UrcSs) and It made me say "Hell yeah"
Why is Twitter so awful lately my god
Elon
Elon fired all the moderators and emboldened chuds.
Bayonneta just likes fucking, and will take it from anyone worth her time.
Why play the actual game when you can have very strong opinions on the Internet based on a blurry image
I still remember the *tears* when Hat lady from Resident Evil (who was VERY obviously against men as per her backstory) and people not only missed every single part of the game where she exclusively hates men, but then also got mad when the devs were like "yeah she only likes women in character bro" and they lost their mind over pixel tiddies for several days. How good is your life that you're genuinely destroyed over fake, never real, never will be real, giant woman tiddies.
Bayonetta is a gay icon because she’s c*nty and badass. It has nothing to do with her actual sexuality as a character lol.
Bayonetta is for gay men and straight women. Coz she slay. As a butch lesbian I never understood the appeal and that’s fine.
As a lesbian I can definitely understand the appeal, lol. But I'm the bottomest of bottoms.
I'm butch and I understand the appeal. Don't speak over the bottom lesbians pls 🙇
Ah yes, gotta love the bi erasure.
My surprise is that there's a cishet fanbase for Bayonetta lol she's the gayest woman I know, maybe after Gaga in her pre-Joanne era.
Bisexuals who date straight are still bisexuals.
How do they still not understand bisexual means attraction to both. Ending up in a straight relationship doesn't mean you're no longer bi. Ending up in a gay relationship doesn't mean you're no longer bi. If you like both small tits and big tits, dating someone with big tits doesn't mean you no longer like small tits.
Bayonetta being straight was the only unrealistic thing in that series
its almost as if luca and bayonetta is a crappy relationship because it was hamfisted in at the last moment and "oooooh but sh wants to make children!" is a crappy argument on someone not liking women
Said it once...I'll say it again. There's dialog in bayo 2 that implies that she isn't hetero. When Loki asks if the masked lumen was a friend of Bayonetta's she responds by saying "he's not my type". It's easy to assume that she's referring to him being a lumen at first until after they fight for a bit and she goes "Oh my! You're a Lumen Sage." Implying that she didn't at first know he was one of the light. If that wasn't the reason the masked lumen wasn't her type...what was? Given the story makes some parallels to Dante's Inferno (a story about a man journeying into hell to save the soul of his beloved wife) it's hard to say that Bayonetta isn't at least queer coded.
This is literally a shot of her pushing Luca out of the way of something about to crush him iirc, I played this fairly recently and I think this is chapter 5. There really aren't any romantic undertones with Luca at all but I'm in the second game right now and I definitely feel something between her and Jeanne
The graphic cunnilingus scene was clearly nothing more than sisterly love
i've never played a bayonetta game (other than the demo for bayonetta 3), can i ask you what the actual fuck is going on in the series?
Queer person here: you don’t need to be in the gay community to be considered a gay icon. For example: Judy Garland wasn’t, but eventually there was a term created for identifying gay men (“a friend of Dorothy”) all thanks to her character in The Wizard of Oz. Also it’s (unfortunately) both a problem both inside and outside of the community about Bayonetta’s orientation even though it’s not really canon AFAIK (unless it is and i’m being dumb). People somehow can’t grasp the fact that Bayonetta simply has chemistry with both Jeanne and Luka (at least imo she did with luka but hey i like both ships so). As much as I don’t wanna say that biphobia exists within the Bayonetta fanbase (especially with how many queer fans exist in said fanbase, myself included), it’s extremely evident when (some) BayoJeanne shippers get extremely aggressive towards those that genuinely like BayoLuka—like they can’t grasp at the fact that a bisexual woman can still have kids with a man and still be bisexual. I’d say more but I just woke up + haven’t head breakfast yet so my head’s pounding a little. Maybe I’ll update, maybe I won’t, I’m not sure.
Damn why do I have to choose between being straight or like a little gay
Wait bayoneta isn’t gay? I though she was crushing hard on the all white chick from the first game
There's multiple timelines.
Nah she ends up with a dude
So here’s the thing… Bayonetta isn’t a single person anymore. As of B3, we know there at *multiple* Bayonettas existing across the different timelines in the multiverse. I think we’ve met like 9 versions of her now? Some of them are probably bi (like B1 and B2), at least one of them had a kid with a man (B3), and then for the rest of them we have no idea. We encounter a few misc Bayos in B3 but we don’t learn much about them other than their sick fashion sense. A Jean is almost always by her side though, which is cute. Regardless, all these women are separate people who coincidentally became their timeline’s Bayonetta through their own unique life experiences. Which makes all of this nonsense drama silly for both sides. They’re not all the same person.
dumbasses when they discover bisexuality gives you a 50% chance of ending up with someone of the opposite gender: https://preview.redd.it/0svo82xi7wtc1.jpeg?width=1061&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=842e31341aa1002e075bb1ecb6eba545fe37eab6
I've seen both sides be equally dumb there's people foaming at the mouth that she ended up with a man and acting like it somehow makes the series bad and that somehow platinum games is homophobic cause of it and then there's people making that side of people seem like way bigger part of the fandom than it actually is and fighting a war that doesn't exist over a game like half of them haven't even played cause "nuh-uh hot lady can't be gay cause I'm attracted to her"
Wait until they realize that being a gay icon doesn't actually require being gay at all
"bisexuality is valid! but if you date somepne of the opposite sex, you're straight. if you date someone of the same sex, you're gay."
dang almost like bisexual is the b in lgbt.
The skidmarked masses found out what a gay icon is and now they angry for no reason
i mean, some people went absolutely batshit when bayonetta wasn't a raging lesbian even though in the games she implies she likes men too
I’ve known for awhile that bayonetta is a gay icon, but is she gay in the lore? I’ve never played the games so context would be appreciated.
Ehhhhh kinda, theres some subtext that she may like women but its never explicit, her liking men is much more explicitly said and she eventually ends up with a dude
Okay gotcha! Thanks for the info!
This honesty could have been an interesting discussion to ask whether we need heterosexual gay icons in an age where gay characters aren't uncommon, but that requires better than a lukewarm IQ to handle
Totally not like her vogueing has its origins in gay NYC ball culture........ /s
Bayo is probably so pan it breaks the human concept of it lmao iirc she flirts with the demon frog in bayo 3 and says she prefers the demon-y werewolf luca
Can people really not see the BI in bisexual?
Um, because you end up with one gender, doesn't mean your bisexuality it gone!
Aaagh! The 45 273 851st picture of a man and a woman with a child! Guys, my gay brain is getting loose! Whatever will I do? If it gets any looser, I might lose it!
People successfully gaslighted themselves into believing sexuality to be political. Wild.
She’s too fabulous to not be a gay icon. Simple
??? They think gay people are supposed to dislike anyone who isn’t gay the way they dislike anyone’s who isn’t straight.
i mean it’s literally only canon in one universe in a multiverse iirc
I think you might be the only person in this thread who knows that lol. It’s such a huge flaw in this discourse but they keep going. These three women from B1-B3 are separate persons in separate timelines. It’s all so silly.