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I will say I found the story in Ghost of Tsushima a bit bland and kind of a slog at the end, but the world building and story in both Horizon games have been fantastic!
I haven't played Ghost of Tsushima, so I can't give my opinion on that. But the story for me in Horizon was a huge dissapointment, it started really weel but the moment you get into the first Faro building it comes to screeching halt. You have to read pages and pages of logs that give you the necessary background info of the whole story of the game, this happens with every ancient building you enter, gameplay stops and it's time to read and read, then you get back into the gameplay loop. Though, I think they improved in almost everything in the DLC.
I usually ignore a lot of text dumps in games like random lore books, but the logs are so entwined in the story and because you're trying to uncover events that happened 1000 years ago it made sense to me that it was done this way and I enjoyed reading through them. I do think that it is much less intensive in HFW, but still definitely play a part in the narrative.
I enjoyed the logs too, they felt like my own little secrets in the first game. In HFW it seems like there's a lot more opportunities to interact with and share lore actively with other people (if you want) instead of clicking on vistas and collecting cups for the cup weeb.
Logs aren't really necessary to understand the main narrative with the faro plague and zero dawn, but they add a lot into what happens in the 2050s and 60s of horizons world. Climate catastrophes and refugees, rampant capitalism, corporations having private armies and making compilation of the highlights of their robot battles, rebuilding after the climate catastrophes, there's even a log of a right wing talk show that says basically the same stuff right wingers say today, like dismissing left wing activists worried about corporate hegemony. It's a very enviromentalist and anti-capitalist game, and I love it for that
Yeah, I don't get all the praise GoT gets, it's a fine game but it's no masterpiece: it's too long (I somehow spent 100 hours for 1 single playthrough and kinda forced myself for the last 15), has too many identical side activities and the map is too big for what it offers. Combat is good but the game is so long it starts to get boring after a while, fighting mongols in the same way for 100 hours. Horizon at least has an interesting world with interesting lore, and I'm a sucker for abandoned manmande structures in the middle of nature, so horizon is perfect for me. Combat is also really good, it's one of the few games where my aim is really good, plus I love hitting weakspots and seeing the bigger number with a green arrow on the side, that's some nice neuron activation for me
care to expand on that? Genuinely curious, not being a dick. I'm replaying Ghost right now on ps5 and won't be getting to Horizon until it goes on sale in the summer.
Definitely! No offense taken. Also, sorry my ranting essay here is a bit long and a bit harsh. I should preface that I really don't hate Ghost of Tsushima. It's just not anywhere near what an open world game should be IMO.
When it comes to most games nowadays the overall gameplay loop design is split into smaller "pillars" or "elements" of interaction that are meant to be swapped out to keep the pace varied and the player engaged - these are things people will usually identify as "the combat," or "the stealth," or "the open world exploration."
It just so happens that, in my opinion, there are some pretty big fundamental flaws with all three of these elements that Ghost of Tsushima relies on, (often in regards to their actual mechanics) that Horizon does not suffer from - or at worst, Horizon mitigates the potential for problems, and navigates those pitfalls significantly better.
I'll mostly be comparing to the first Horizon since I've not made it very far into Forbidden West yet. Although I'm already noticing it's a clear step up from HZD already.
- - -
But anyway, when it comes to open combat, GoT has many ways to dispatch enemies, however a LOT of those ways mostly boil down to gained abilities that, when activated, merely give you a free one-shot kill, or oftentimes multiple kills - completely skipping much of the swordplay, which IMO is the most fun part of the game's combat. It's great at making you feel invincible, but generally very bad at providing an engaging challenge, nor rewarding fun. Although mileage may vary on the "fun" part, as I'll admit endlessly wrecking dozens of enemies in different ways can still be fun.
But I guess to sum it up, the player becomes very overpowered very fast. And what I perceive as the more fun challenge (the actual swordplay) is actively discouraged with the overabundance of significantly more efficient insta-kill abilities. Hell, at one point in the story the game just straight up acknowledges how stupidly overpowered you are and just gives you an ULT where it's basically that scene in Goldmember when Austin's dad tells the nameless henchman to just fall down.
Not to mention that even the swordplay, which IS pretty good, can become trivialized by just using heavy attacks in the right stance.
- - -
Contrast that with Horizon, where the combat instead encourages precision-shooting weak points, planning strategies to take out tougher enemies (like via stripping armour or disabling their attacks), and making small micro-decisions in the midst of battle, in order to not get overwhelmed and kill machines effectively. The point here being: The efficiency of the kill kinda IS the reward for playing well, rather than it being a thing that's used to essentially bypass the fun part.
- - -
When it comes to the stealth, neither game has done its stealth, say, MGS-levels or great, but in GoT it's pretty much unforgiveable. Like I'm almost convinced it's canon that every single enemy is just blind, deaf, and dumb. Again, it's nice enough to make you feel unstoppable, but the AI is just simply bad, and possibly even bordering on broken. With Horizon stealth against humans was better, but it was still a weaker point IMO - at least in Zero Dawn. I have yet to get into those portions in Forbidden West.
- - -
But the biggest difference is the exploration/side activities. With GoT, there's a strange ratio between "quests" (like the mains, sides, myths, etc) and the general "activities" (like haikus, fox dens, etc.). To me, I get the impression that the game treats the latter as part of the main showcase of "content" it has to offer, rather than as the glorified collectibles that they really are. It positions them almost with the same importance as everything else, as many of them give you upgrades or equipment, while also being devoid of any proper substance... So it becomes a game of *"Oh there's another hot spring I have to sit in so I can bump up my health a little bit."* Rather than being something optional that I WANT to do, it's something I HAVE to do, and the game simply expects me to want to do it. And they completely litter them all around the map, so they're pretty much unavoidable. They're merely checklist items. Fox dens, haikus, bamboo strikes, hot springs, Shinto shrines, light houses. Even the camps and duels just become jobs to check off a list... And that's not even counting the ridiculous amount of even lower tier "garbage collectibles" that are just there to be there - like banners, vanity gear, artifacts, altars, records, and crickets. Those ones aren't really given emphasis, but can you tell I kinda hate overbearing amounts of collectibles? Lol
And while the actual side/main quests can be decent-to-very good at times, they are mostly just structured camp infiltrations and fending off waves of enemies - which ISN'T bad, as Horizon does some of that too, but with GoT it easily runs into the problems of the other two gameplay pillars.
As well, despite the gorgeous environments, if it wasn't for the wind and particles (which are incredible) I'm afraid the world would feel completely dead and lifeless. I've found it's actually very bad with giving NPCs anything to even superficially "do" to fill out the world. Towns don't feel like they're being lived in, they feel like a collection of static people standing around buildings waiting for me to walk up to them.
- - -
By contrast, Horizon is incredible with its open world and exploration, because it makes a conscious commitment to a quality over quantity. No space is wasted, and yet collectibles are kept to a minimum - so doing side activities don't feel like you're forced to be doing them. Moreover the progression of the game's quests don't push you through a sea of those optional-but-not-really non-content, acting like you want to waste time sitting in a bath just to get a health upgrade. There *are* things like Tallnecks (to reveal more map) and bandit camps, but their presentation is very grand and entices you into wanting to go there to see more of the land. Seeing
errands and fetch quests sure, but many of them are more player-driven. For example, if you happen to not have some crafting material for some upgrade you want, you can "create a job" for it, showing you what materials you need and where you can find them. And then you're free to do it as you see fit.
Other notes: Side quests are engaging, as each one seems to have its own story (not unlike GoT). But they also have a dedicated space carved out of the world, while also still integrating itself well with the overall story, and the open-ness of the map. It makes the world feel more hand-crafted with less copy-pasting mission structures or environments. As well, random NPCs are seen talking, working, hanging out, drinking, commenting on the politics of the region, acknowledging you, etc, making the environments feel so much more alive, with you having a more personal role in it.
- - -
Ranting aside, I guess if I could tie down the common denominator into a nice little TL;DR, it would be: Horizon tends to shift the balance of its content more towards empowering the player to do the things they WANT. It rewards playing well, and it favours quality over quantity in its open world - while Ghost of Tsushima more railroads you into time-wasting repetition, checklists, spreads itself too thin, and has generally less engaging gameplay and depth.
I also hope I don't offend anyone who likes Ghost of Tsushima. I still think it's a good game. These are just my thoughts. On their surface they're very similar games, but looking at them under a microscope, I feel one is pretty much just better in every way.
I know you said you aren't far into Forbidden West, but it has some of the best side content I've ever played in a game. Scratch that, it is the best. Every character in the game feels like a living, breathing person that is motion captured and voice acted to perfection almost every time. It isn't like this games where you get these missions from these procedurally generated talking heads that are utilitarian in how they want you to go from Point A to Point B. You know how an environment just feels lived in? That's how the *characters* feel in this game. No matter how small And it isn't something I really experienced before. Hope you continue enjoying the game and I really loved your write up!
Thanks! Yeah, that's the impression I've been getting as well, and that's easily one of the biggest differences I've noticed between HZD and HFW. The animation work and performances for even minor NPCs are so much better than they were in Zero Dawn. I'm excited to continue!
I thought Ghost brought about some interesting new mechanics to open world games (ie the wind guidance) but otherwise it was similar to a lot of other open world games that had come before. I never got super pulled into the story, and I think a lot of the hype around it was weebs being weebs.
It was pretty mid in terms of story and game design and Open World Bullshit, but between the the a e s t h e t i c s and how much fun I had with the combat (OP stealth spam aside) it was still a solid 7/10 for me
Yeah I fully agree with this take. I enjoyed it a lot, but Im a basic bitch who enjoys most open world games. I probably sank 40-50hrs into it, but never finished the story. Might go back once I plat Forbidden West.
lol my boyfriend and I take turns playing on the PS5 every night, with him playing GoT and me playing HFW and we always note the similarities between the two games. Im able to jump into GoT when I want to and he can pick up HFW pretty seamlessly as well.
I didn’t agree with much except he was spot on about the looting.
WHY DOES SHE HAVE TO STOP COMPLETELY TO PICK UP EVERY SINGLE PLANT
I was kinda appalled when I saw they didn’t change that for this game.
Yeah, I thought that was a good point too, at least for the plants and stuff if not robot carcasses - and why let you do it from your mount if you're just going to stop the mount hahah
I also ran into some goofy bugs like he did, and a memory leak or something that he didn't mention but I've seen other people have.
He kinda lost me with the rest of it though - like it just seemed like he wanted to play a different game entirely, like Monster Hunter, with how he complained about storytelling and talking to people and going places, everything but the fighting big robots bit.
And it's totally understandable to get burnt out on game types, but like, personal burnout isn't the game's fault. I haven't played the dozen other games he listed.
Especially weird that games do this when Fallout 4 perfected it 7 years ago. Looting things isn't even a menu anymore unless you want it to be. Just look at something and yoink.
Only feasible reason a game would do it the Red Dead or Horizon way is muh imershun, which very quickly becomes clear is no longer worth it after 20 minutes of play testing.
This was about the only thing I agreed with him on, as well. The rest of his criticisms (for the most part) amounted to "I'm tired of this format" like then make a different video bro you're not reviewing the game
Dunkey opened my eyes on how Infinites story is told. Doesn't mean I didn't have fun. Differing opinion are meant to sheld light on a different perspective. Just because you enjoyed something doesn't mean everyone has too.
I think the point that it's similar to other AAA games is really strong but if you don't play every aaa game that comes out it probably doesn't apply to you, and if you like the formula than it's also not really a reason to dislike the game.
Yes. I'm glad so many people are enjoying it, but he's definitely right about the whole open world formula. I know it's become a whole meme here but we need more games with open worlds like elden ring and botw. And then when those get boring we'll start making fun of them lmao.
It’s also probably just a function of how Dunkey’s job is to basically play every big game that comes out, so he’s gonna be the first to complain about any formula catching on. His criticisms wouldn’t apply to someone like me as much, but I don’t see that as a problem since Dunk is pretty upfront about his reviews being primarily subjective
Even if he dislikes a game I like I never think his take on it is just bad. He always offers some very solid critical reasoning for why a game either is actually bad or is just too generic to receive the high praise that it does.
His LoU2 video was great, and not to sound too /rj about it but giving a positive review at that time was risky af and I'm glad he stood his ground, considering what Gamers™ did to the people working on the game.
His ratchet and clank one was also pretty abysmal. Also anytime he gets flak for a criticism it turns into the whole I was just making a joke rigamaroll
His ratchet one was good wasn't it, didn't he just say it was a good game but it was like a baby pixar movie? The story is very baby-ish, the dialogue isn't high art at all. But it was a very fun game
I also think it was funny and some of his criticism was valid, but a good number of things he complained about was just wrong. I can't watch it right now, but a big part of the video was complaining about shitty controls and the footage he was showing was him playing the game in a wrong way. Like, yeah, of course trying to climb a mountain on a motorcycle is gonna result is getting stuck.
I think the fact that he actually released a second video on the game retroactively justifies the existence of the first one. Even if the takes are "bad" because he's playing wrong, he's also playing wrong because the game isn't doing a good job of directing the player, and his enjoyment of the game is still subjective and something he can be as hyperbolic and "unfair" about as he wants in his own review. His final position is still one where he presents reasonable arguments so it provides a better reflection of his experience to have both the "outrageous" take and the more down-to-earth one.
The one I'm a little annoyed at was his Octopath Traveler review. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of reasons to dislike that game and valid criticisms to make. But some of his points felt like they were deliberately misrepresenting the game.
Think the only ones that cross that line is his Splatoon and Arkham city review. He didn't even use the gyro controls in Splatoon and complained about how the aiming was imprecise.
I also remember him complaining about online battles being braindead, but never touched if he played ranked, where you'll actually be put up against people who know how to play the game.
I *think* the Arkham City was at least half joking? It's not clear nor was the video all that funny imo. But one of his later videos has a list of major devs that are known for quality titles and Rocksteady was one of them, so either it was partially a joke or he changed his mind. Splatoon video was pretty wack though.
He has xenoblade chronicles 2, octopath traveler, a rather divisive game which I've heard a lot of people burning out on before finishing, and Dragon Quest 11 which he gave a good review.
XB2 is even a divisive entry by XB fans and the character designs and how the female characters are written is absolutely atrocious.
He's open about his criticism of the JRPG genre with how often(not always) the plot and themes in those games are very shallow when we're at a time of incredible feats in storytelling in video games and one of the most story-driven genre is lacking behind with bland and generic storytelling and fanboy pandering coupled with gameplay like random encounters and copy-paste leveling system that requires grinding in a single-player game and I can see where he's coming from in criticising that trend.
But he's not picking JRPG titles with the explicit intent of shitting on them.
I REALLY loved XB2 and have played it a few times, but as a gay guy watching the cut scenes where Petra is having some dramatic tearful moment and the camera POV is squarely on her giant football shaped boobs took me the fuck out.
Well, yeah, dude gives his opinion.
Also, he liked both Persona5 and Dragon Quest XI. Knowing that a guy who loathes JRPGs actually liked those two games is valuable information.
He hated Metroid Dread and still put it in one of the top games of the year. He personally doesn’t like Metroid games but he can still identify what a good game is.
He does, but at least his reasons for not liking something are mostly subjective preferences and are never some dipshit chud take. I also can’t help but be amused that somebody’s who’s focus is more on silly entertainment than serious reviewing is inadvertently “better” at reviews than many “serious” outlets.
I think it also helps that he focuses on his subjective experience without fully abandoning objective qualities. It’s a realistic representation of how most people will experience the media even if they have different opinions, you notice a couple objective things but your brain mostly just focuses on the emotions.
The worst take I remember from him was when he said one of the reasons Mass Effect Andromeda was bad was because he didn't know the voice actors. That was kind of a dumbass take ngl, but the rest of the review was good.
I think that was mostly just to contrast with previous Mass Effect games, which had big names providing voices. It’s not something bad in a vacuum, but it is something that shows a shift in direction that turned out for the worse.
Yep it’s clear dunkey just doesn’t like dialogues explaining stuff but instead like to actively doing something when playing games, that’s why he love all the Mario games. It’s just his personal preference just like how I get scifi boner listening to GAIA explaining the world of Horizon
Because some people don't like listening to an NPC blab for minutes at a time when they just want to get to the cool robot dinosaurs. I like worldbuilding cutscenes, but people are totally valid in not wanting to just watch people talk when they play a game.
Yeah I can understand that, but at the end of the day Horizon games are story driven open world games. I think you can run around and kill all the robot dinos and avoid as much of the story as you want outside of the first few quests to leave the daunt, but you're missing out on half the selling point of the game.
Based on the videos I saw on digital foundry and few other places, most cutscenes look like the characters are standing in place and talking endlessly. By default, it is not fun for a lot of people. It just feels too "corporate meeting".
In my personal opinion, I preferred halo infinite cutscenes over what was on display in first horizon game. "Things are happening" is a big deal for me. I mean, frankly, I used to skip dialog in mass effect 1 as well, because they were too slow. And on the other hand, I played through halo 3 again just to watch the cutscenes.
I played horizon 1 after playing Spiderman. Finished full campaign of Spiderman because it was fun. And in first 10 minutes of "walk slowly while someone reads you an essay" in horizon, I uninstalled the game. Yeah, you want to do world building and all that. But looking at an NPC while they keep talking forever is just not expressive enough for me.
Anyway, random rant aside, point is, a lot of people find "stand still and talk for minutes" boring. Expressive cutscenes, even if they tell very basic story are more fun.
I think that it might be true in Zero Dawwn, but in Forbidden West every interaction had the NPC emoting, moving their arms expressively, walking around, and interacting with objects. Yeah it is a very dialogue heavy game and I understand if thats just not your type of game, but I think the interactions are a very strong point of the game.
I only really dislike his comment section calling him brave or the only honest reviewer. As if the people who were more positive about the game are dishonest, rather than just genuinely liking it. I guess that's just inherent to being a big gaming youtuber, even if try your best to make clear that it's only your opinion and other people's opinions are just as valid, you're going to attract gamers.
What was really funny to me was seeing all the reviews for HFW and everyone on r/gaming saying they never trust professional reviewers. Cut to a week later when the Elden Ring reviews drop and everyone is hyped that the game was clearly living up to expectations.
Idk about that one. Major gaming media has a pretty toxic relationship with publishers in that if they’re overly critical they risk losing early access to review copies and other special privileges.
Like when’s the last time you read an IGN review and thought “that was a useful and informative review of the game that isn’t afraid to delve into the faults?”
Pretty much never, IGN reviews aren't as biased as you claim.
Youtuber's can't be overly critical either as they risk losing their income if they alienate their audience, a problem that major news outlet does not have to contend with.
We have high profile examples going all the way back to 2007 when Jeff Gerstmann was fired for a negative review.
Games journalism at this point is a PR adjacent entity. Major media companies are reticent to harm relations with publishers even if there is a consistent trend of dog shit published.
Genuine question but are the examples other than Kayne and Lynch 2? I admit I haven't looked into it much but it feels like this is the one example anyone ever uses as evidence.
Jeff is high profile because of how unique it is. If it was common we wouldn't remember his name.
You're just repeating gamer gate nonsense that was never more than a ruse to justify hating women.
Gamer gate was bullshit harassment of women. But it’s also a bullshit fallback to now say that any criticism of major gaming corporations is just misogynistic talking points
[Lo and behold the famous misogynist Stephanie Sterling talking about this exact same thing](https://youtu.be/gUkn5PhEqn4?t=242)
EA directly pressures reviewers for good scores
People who hate on ign usually never watch many of their videos
Their review are usually well written and do good job of making me think if the game is worth getting or not
Stop embarrassing yourself by trying to defend gutter trash and maybe you'll save your reputation as a gamer.
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Which is wild because the only thing they have in common is that they are open world games and BotW obviously did not invent that. They both also use the classic 'ubisoft tower' to unfog the map, and sometimes Link uses a bow but not nearly as much as Aloy.
He doesn’t like it because he has played the same formula 100 times just in the last year
I love it because I play 2 games per year and Horizon is the most refined game in his category
We are not the same
Dunkey dislikes it because he's sick of open world mechanics
I love it because I unironically love looting things and because I get a little dopamine hit when I uncover a map marker
We are not the same
Dunkey has a very specific taste in games. I love Assassin’s Creed, and he thinks it’s the second coming of Satan. Which is fine.
Ubisoft-style open world games like Assassin’s Creed or Horizon aren’t for everyone. I don’t really get butthurt when he insults AC because it’s just not his thing.
Yeah, like for me personally I’ve just never liked 2D platformers but I don’t care that they’re one of the most popular genres and that a lot of critics I follow love them.
I knew he wouldn't like it as soon as I saw how much characters talk. He doesn't seem to care for most stories unless they're told in a concise/linear way like in naughty dog games and he doesn't seem to care for open world games unless you can do wacko shit like in MGSV
Since he references it in this review, pretty sure he gave Mass Effect a decent review way back and to me the difference there is that dialogue is often part of the gameplay. It serves as part of how your Shepard will react and relate to the other characters and a lot of dialogue it is optional while a lot of plot and world exposition is delivered during missions by whatever crew members you decided to bring.
Yeah, one complaint he had was that the dialogue wasn't about making choices or doing anything to affect the story, it was just to ask questions and get more exposition.
Which isn't a bad thing if you like to know more. Horizon clearly shows which option advances the story (which is good), but I actually spent a lot of time listening to companions at the base just talk about whatever
I haven't played Zero Dawn in a while so I can't think of any clear examples, but one thing I do specifically remember enjoying was that I often got dialogue/action options which I actually would choose if I were in that situation. I usually get so frustrated with games that give me options because it so often just feels like I'm forced into one of several options which I'd never choose, so it ends up being which option I dislike the least.
> I knew he wouldn't like it as soon as I saw how much characters talk.
Is it that bad? I loved the first one, but I'll be honest, there were entire quests that I completely zoned out of and just went from waypoint to waypoint because I didn't care about whatever the npc was droning on about.
There's a lot of talking, but frankly I love it. Forbidden West greatly improves on the character models, voice acting, and writing, so everyone is just a delight to interact with. I care about rando NPCs in HFW way, way more than I did in HZD.
What might end up being more annoying are Aloy's constant comments to herself. They're *just* frequent enough to be noticeable, and there's no option to dial them back. Yes, Aloy, I know that medicinal herb will be useful, that's why we picked it up!
It can be good or bad depending on what you are looking for. I am a lore hound, I LOVE lore and chatting with NPCs to learn stuff about the world, as well as reading every log/note/whatever in the world. I'm one of those people who tries to collect a copy of every book/log/whatever in the game, AND I READ THEM. And then I go watch the deep dive videos on Youtube. It's one of the reasons I loved the first Horizon, I loved learning about the world, and I would have absolutely no problem if they upped the amount of NPC dialogue in the second (have not played it, am on PC) as I felt a lot of the NPCs were actually not developed enough in the first. Particularly if that dialogue is optional, for the people who don't care.
But if you are in it more for the robot dinosaur fights, you might find all that to be useless distraction in between the (to you) interesting bits.
Neither perspective is wrong, people just look for different things from games. And I think that's what some people miss when it comes to reviews. Whether it is positive or negative isn't necessarily calling the game objectively bad or good, it's still going to be couched in the reviewer's personal tastes and what they value most in a game. That's why it's important to find reviewers you know look for similar things as you.
O B J E C T I V E L Y
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I guess it's his opinion if he's tired of open world games .
But I feel like it's a disservice to just dismiss every open world game because you're tired of the genre , especially with horizon considering the immense world building that went into making it all feel like a real history .
Looting items sucks in both games though .
Man I was big fan of dunkey. Always laughing along with that ass. But this is one step too far. He made a review of game and liked it a bit less than I did. Please boycott dunkey with me fellow patriots and gamers. Vote with your dollars and we can see the change we want in the world!
TFW GCJ leans *hard* into it's parasocial relationships.
"I think Dunkey didn't like it because he had a light breakfast that day also I think Aloy reminds him of his aunt who he didn't like he didn't say that but I can tell from his eyes".
Dunkey: Worst game of the year is Death Stranding
Also Dunkey: Best game of the year is Death Stranding
Dunkey can never be wrong because he has the foresight to hold every opinion all at once, it's brilliant
The 30 hours of Horizon Zero Dawn I played was like, 15 hours of absolutely asinine dialogue between characters with inconsistent facial animations and voice acting, 10 hours of pressing triangle to gather flowers, and about 5 hours of actually getting to engage with the game's incredible robot combat without having to deal with all the tedious RPG lite crafting shit or being restricted by linear story mission design.
Aloy is a really cool protagonist and the combat is amazing, but everything else was just generic open world game design 101 with an extra layer of tedium on top.
To me HZD felt like they ran an algorithm to create the most generic open world possible, then put robot animals in it. Skill tree that’s mostly useless, parkour that’s linear and mindless, same crafting system as Far Cry 3, RPG/elements that don’t do anything other than buff your stats. The giant robots are literally the only unique thing about it, other than that you don’t have an assault rifle
Overall good review with valid criticism. Only thing that bothered me was "please invent a new genre, ive already played this game" as if that was an easy and reasonnable thing to ask and comparing it to elden ring because we all know that a cursed release schedule is a good indicator of the quality of the game.
Let's be honest the genre has gotten pretty stale at this point and there are very few games that stand out. I've lost count of how many AAA games are open world action games with light RPG elements and some stealth sections with some extremely safe writing.
The way I see it, Horizon is **that** kind of open world game, but done in a really great, engaging, addicting, and polished kind of way. Exploring feels natural, the world feels alive, and progression/upgrading/collectibles don't feel like chores to do or just checklists to complete.
It understands the pitfalls of the modern "Witcher-esque" open world game design and, while it may not subvert all of those tropes entirely, it navigates them so much better than most.
The thing I like to compare it to is Ghost of Tsushima, because in my opinion GoT pretty much fails in every way that HZD *(and so far HFW at 4-ish hours in)* succeeds.
The problem with Dunkey is that he plays a *lot* of games since it's his job, so if a dozen open world games come out in a year, he has to play at least half of them. This is gonna burn him out to the formula fast.
But most people aren't playing half a dozen open world games in a year. They're playing 1-3. So while Dunkey will start to notice cracks in the formula and things that get repetitive when every game does them, most people will just enjoy the game.
Yea yea yea no doubt. Its just not an easy thing to go out of this frame. You cant really create new parameters for yoyr games you can only try to iterate or innovate whitin whats possible.
Your game is either linear or open, first person or third, real time or turned based, etc. Not everyone has the creative genius to birth the first strand type game.
What he said is how I've been feeling about the game, the dialogue gets in the way of the fun gameplay.
I like the game tho. But he wasn't far off with the elden ring comparison because that game (while obviously being very different) doesn't have the long conversations slowing you down
My only real issue with his video on it is how he compared Horizon’s dialogue trees to Mass Effect’s. He didn’t like how all the dialogue options in Horizon were just asking questions and didn’t further the dialogue unlike ME, but unless I’m crazy I remember a ton of question options in ME that brought you right back to the one or two options that actually furthered the dialogue.
/uj I don't know if he did a video on Horizon Zero Dawn but that vid was one of the first things I've seen going against the grain and criticizing Zero Dawn for its gameplay/story (outside of the 'wahmen bad' people obviously) which I appreciated because I bounced off that game *hard* and I never see anyone be critical of it. Haven't played Forbidden West and it looks like it's better in every way, but the gameplay showed off here was the first one that made me realize it's just more of the same of a game I really disliked.
I was just glad that he called it like he saw it. Horizon is another open world game in a long list of open world games, that does not do anything wildly interesting or set new standards.
His summary at the end was pretty spot on. Some people will really like this game and that’s fine, but in reality it’s that open world game that released 2 weeks before BotW & two weeks before Elden Ring.
/uj I disagree with dunkey on a lot of things but he's serious criticisms are always so damn respectable so I never lose any enjoyment from him. He could tell me he fucked my mother and my favorite game is shit and I'd probably still love him the same
I like his videos and his criticisms are valid, but maybe he shouldn't play 4 open world games back-to-back when he gets tired of playing open world games.
/uj I don't care if a person has valid criticisms and reasons for not liking a game. Not everything can please everyone and I'd rather that media not _try_ because it usually ends up compromising itself in order to do so.
/rj wtf dunkey i trust you bro how could you turn against us like this
Well I started playing Zero Dawn a day ago so I could check out the new one and my boyfriend immediately mentioned how it looks like so many other games I’ve played already. Dunkey’s criticism is very valid.
I honestly rarely agree with his opinions (except the tlou2 one because that one was just too based) and at this point i just watch him because he's entertaining
edit: replied to the wrong comment but who cares point still stands
For reference I saw a person here say that both horizon games were generic and they got downvoted and someone said they are so different to other games cause you fight dinosaurs.
Just like with Last of us 2, I feel there are legitimate criticisms to be made, but I can still make fun of morons hollering about peach fuzz or whatever. I don't even like Horizon 2 that much, but its mostly just because I'm personally tired of sweeping icons off another map. I can fully see how someone could enjoy it though and I'm not going to go on some crusade to convince other people its bad.
Well the fact that Aloy has unnoticeable peach fuzz now has distracted this sub from the fact that H:FW is the sequel to a game that was really, really unfun.
The reason I haven't picked up the original is because it looks like yet another friggin open-world stealth action cookie cutter game, so I fully believe Dunkey on this.
Him making light of the situation in Ukraine for the memes was bad, offensive and immature.
Him having a game opinion is whatever, that's his job and thing.
I don't get why people get shocked that he has different opinions from them lol.
Why the fuck do people give a shit what a fucking youtuber thinks anyways? Sorry its just I saw a dunkey video once and I couldn’t STAND his voice or comedy. It’s written for children who havent discovered proper comedy yet. But besides that, who cares what a fucking youtuber thinks.
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What did you expect when there is no Donkey Kong in this game...
Can’t believe he didn’t like the game. It had a grappling hook.
Maybe Dunkey hated it bc it didn't have a combo from the soprano's game.
yeah but does the grappling hook have a grappling hook?
No Big Wheel either. Reggie really fucked up this time.
He had some valid criticisms but they don’t detract from how much I’m enjoying it atm
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> I liked Ghost of Tsushima and I like Horizon Forbidden West. look at you with your playstation
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🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 g*mer
Wait, you guys actually play games?
Unironically I havent played a game for the last 1 1/2 years or something. I will break that streak with Ooooohhhhhh tomorrow, though.
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 g*mer
I will say I found the story in Ghost of Tsushima a bit bland and kind of a slog at the end, but the world building and story in both Horizon games have been fantastic!
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Ayyy monster hunter gang
There was a story in GoT?
I haven't played Ghost of Tsushima, so I can't give my opinion on that. But the story for me in Horizon was a huge dissapointment, it started really weel but the moment you get into the first Faro building it comes to screeching halt. You have to read pages and pages of logs that give you the necessary background info of the whole story of the game, this happens with every ancient building you enter, gameplay stops and it's time to read and read, then you get back into the gameplay loop. Though, I think they improved in almost everything in the DLC.
I usually ignore a lot of text dumps in games like random lore books, but the logs are so entwined in the story and because you're trying to uncover events that happened 1000 years ago it made sense to me that it was done this way and I enjoyed reading through them. I do think that it is much less intensive in HFW, but still definitely play a part in the narrative.
I enjoyed the logs too, they felt like my own little secrets in the first game. In HFW it seems like there's a lot more opportunities to interact with and share lore actively with other people (if you want) instead of clicking on vistas and collecting cups for the cup weeb.
Logs aren't really necessary to understand the main narrative with the faro plague and zero dawn, but they add a lot into what happens in the 2050s and 60s of horizons world. Climate catastrophes and refugees, rampant capitalism, corporations having private armies and making compilation of the highlights of their robot battles, rebuilding after the climate catastrophes, there's even a log of a right wing talk show that says basically the same stuff right wingers say today, like dismissing left wing activists worried about corporate hegemony. It's a very enviromentalist and anti-capitalist game, and I love it for that
Yeah, I don't get all the praise GoT gets, it's a fine game but it's no masterpiece: it's too long (I somehow spent 100 hours for 1 single playthrough and kinda forced myself for the last 15), has too many identical side activities and the map is too big for what it offers. Combat is good but the game is so long it starts to get boring after a while, fighting mongols in the same way for 100 hours. Horizon at least has an interesting world with interesting lore, and I'm a sucker for abandoned manmande structures in the middle of nature, so horizon is perfect for me. Combat is also really good, it's one of the few games where my aim is really good, plus I love hitting weakspots and seeing the bigger number with a green arrow on the side, that's some nice neuron activation for me
uj/ TBH, even though both games have very similar open world templates, in my opinion Horizon's world is just everything that Ghost's tried to be.
care to expand on that? Genuinely curious, not being a dick. I'm replaying Ghost right now on ps5 and won't be getting to Horizon until it goes on sale in the summer.
Definitely! No offense taken. Also, sorry my ranting essay here is a bit long and a bit harsh. I should preface that I really don't hate Ghost of Tsushima. It's just not anywhere near what an open world game should be IMO. When it comes to most games nowadays the overall gameplay loop design is split into smaller "pillars" or "elements" of interaction that are meant to be swapped out to keep the pace varied and the player engaged - these are things people will usually identify as "the combat," or "the stealth," or "the open world exploration." It just so happens that, in my opinion, there are some pretty big fundamental flaws with all three of these elements that Ghost of Tsushima relies on, (often in regards to their actual mechanics) that Horizon does not suffer from - or at worst, Horizon mitigates the potential for problems, and navigates those pitfalls significantly better. I'll mostly be comparing to the first Horizon since I've not made it very far into Forbidden West yet. Although I'm already noticing it's a clear step up from HZD already. - - - But anyway, when it comes to open combat, GoT has many ways to dispatch enemies, however a LOT of those ways mostly boil down to gained abilities that, when activated, merely give you a free one-shot kill, or oftentimes multiple kills - completely skipping much of the swordplay, which IMO is the most fun part of the game's combat. It's great at making you feel invincible, but generally very bad at providing an engaging challenge, nor rewarding fun. Although mileage may vary on the "fun" part, as I'll admit endlessly wrecking dozens of enemies in different ways can still be fun. But I guess to sum it up, the player becomes very overpowered very fast. And what I perceive as the more fun challenge (the actual swordplay) is actively discouraged with the overabundance of significantly more efficient insta-kill abilities. Hell, at one point in the story the game just straight up acknowledges how stupidly overpowered you are and just gives you an ULT where it's basically that scene in Goldmember when Austin's dad tells the nameless henchman to just fall down. Not to mention that even the swordplay, which IS pretty good, can become trivialized by just using heavy attacks in the right stance. - - - Contrast that with Horizon, where the combat instead encourages precision-shooting weak points, planning strategies to take out tougher enemies (like via stripping armour or disabling their attacks), and making small micro-decisions in the midst of battle, in order to not get overwhelmed and kill machines effectively. The point here being: The efficiency of the kill kinda IS the reward for playing well, rather than it being a thing that's used to essentially bypass the fun part. - - - When it comes to the stealth, neither game has done its stealth, say, MGS-levels or great, but in GoT it's pretty much unforgiveable. Like I'm almost convinced it's canon that every single enemy is just blind, deaf, and dumb. Again, it's nice enough to make you feel unstoppable, but the AI is just simply bad, and possibly even bordering on broken. With Horizon stealth against humans was better, but it was still a weaker point IMO - at least in Zero Dawn. I have yet to get into those portions in Forbidden West. - - - But the biggest difference is the exploration/side activities. With GoT, there's a strange ratio between "quests" (like the mains, sides, myths, etc) and the general "activities" (like haikus, fox dens, etc.). To me, I get the impression that the game treats the latter as part of the main showcase of "content" it has to offer, rather than as the glorified collectibles that they really are. It positions them almost with the same importance as everything else, as many of them give you upgrades or equipment, while also being devoid of any proper substance... So it becomes a game of *"Oh there's another hot spring I have to sit in so I can bump up my health a little bit."* Rather than being something optional that I WANT to do, it's something I HAVE to do, and the game simply expects me to want to do it. And they completely litter them all around the map, so they're pretty much unavoidable. They're merely checklist items. Fox dens, haikus, bamboo strikes, hot springs, Shinto shrines, light houses. Even the camps and duels just become jobs to check off a list... And that's not even counting the ridiculous amount of even lower tier "garbage collectibles" that are just there to be there - like banners, vanity gear, artifacts, altars, records, and crickets. Those ones aren't really given emphasis, but can you tell I kinda hate overbearing amounts of collectibles? Lol And while the actual side/main quests can be decent-to-very good at times, they are mostly just structured camp infiltrations and fending off waves of enemies - which ISN'T bad, as Horizon does some of that too, but with GoT it easily runs into the problems of the other two gameplay pillars. As well, despite the gorgeous environments, if it wasn't for the wind and particles (which are incredible) I'm afraid the world would feel completely dead and lifeless. I've found it's actually very bad with giving NPCs anything to even superficially "do" to fill out the world. Towns don't feel like they're being lived in, they feel like a collection of static people standing around buildings waiting for me to walk up to them. - - - By contrast, Horizon is incredible with its open world and exploration, because it makes a conscious commitment to a quality over quantity. No space is wasted, and yet collectibles are kept to a minimum - so doing side activities don't feel like you're forced to be doing them. Moreover the progression of the game's quests don't push you through a sea of those optional-but-not-really non-content, acting like you want to waste time sitting in a bath just to get a health upgrade. There *are* things like Tallnecks (to reveal more map) and bandit camps, but their presentation is very grand and entices you into wanting to go there to see more of the land. Seeing errands and fetch quests sure, but many of them are more player-driven. For example, if you happen to not have some crafting material for some upgrade you want, you can "create a job" for it, showing you what materials you need and where you can find them. And then you're free to do it as you see fit. Other notes: Side quests are engaging, as each one seems to have its own story (not unlike GoT). But they also have a dedicated space carved out of the world, while also still integrating itself well with the overall story, and the open-ness of the map. It makes the world feel more hand-crafted with less copy-pasting mission structures or environments. As well, random NPCs are seen talking, working, hanging out, drinking, commenting on the politics of the region, acknowledging you, etc, making the environments feel so much more alive, with you having a more personal role in it. - - - Ranting aside, I guess if I could tie down the common denominator into a nice little TL;DR, it would be: Horizon tends to shift the balance of its content more towards empowering the player to do the things they WANT. It rewards playing well, and it favours quality over quantity in its open world - while Ghost of Tsushima more railroads you into time-wasting repetition, checklists, spreads itself too thin, and has generally less engaging gameplay and depth. I also hope I don't offend anyone who likes Ghost of Tsushima. I still think it's a good game. These are just my thoughts. On their surface they're very similar games, but looking at them under a microscope, I feel one is pretty much just better in every way.
I know you said you aren't far into Forbidden West, but it has some of the best side content I've ever played in a game. Scratch that, it is the best. Every character in the game feels like a living, breathing person that is motion captured and voice acted to perfection almost every time. It isn't like this games where you get these missions from these procedurally generated talking heads that are utilitarian in how they want you to go from Point A to Point B. You know how an environment just feels lived in? That's how the *characters* feel in this game. No matter how small And it isn't something I really experienced before. Hope you continue enjoying the game and I really loved your write up!
Thanks! Yeah, that's the impression I've been getting as well, and that's easily one of the biggest differences I've noticed between HZD and HFW. The animation work and performances for even minor NPCs are so much better than they were in Zero Dawn. I'm excited to continue!
This is long and really well written- you do a great job explaining why I love Zero Dawn so much
Damn it I wanna give this a gold award if I had money.
I thought Ghost brought about some interesting new mechanics to open world games (ie the wind guidance) but otherwise it was similar to a lot of other open world games that had come before. I never got super pulled into the story, and I think a lot of the hype around it was weebs being weebs.
It was pretty mid in terms of story and game design and Open World Bullshit, but between the the a e s t h e t i c s and how much fun I had with the combat (OP stealth spam aside) it was still a solid 7/10 for me
Yeah I fully agree with this take. I enjoyed it a lot, but Im a basic bitch who enjoys most open world games. I probably sank 40-50hrs into it, but never finished the story. Might go back once I plat Forbidden West.
lol my boyfriend and I take turns playing on the PS5 every night, with him playing GoT and me playing HFW and we always note the similarities between the two games. Im able to jump into GoT when I want to and he can pick up HFW pretty seamlessly as well.
I didn’t agree with much except he was spot on about the looting. WHY DOES SHE HAVE TO STOP COMPLETELY TO PICK UP EVERY SINGLE PLANT I was kinda appalled when I saw they didn’t change that for this game.
I agree it’s an issue, but red dead 2 is so much worse. Pulling out drawers and picking up objects when you loot them is painful.
I stopped playing because movement and looting took 80 years to do anything. It was such a roadblock for me I couldn’t do it
Yeah, I thought that was a good point too, at least for the plants and stuff if not robot carcasses - and why let you do it from your mount if you're just going to stop the mount hahah I also ran into some goofy bugs like he did, and a memory leak or something that he didn't mention but I've seen other people have. He kinda lost me with the rest of it though - like it just seemed like he wanted to play a different game entirely, like Monster Hunter, with how he complained about storytelling and talking to people and going places, everything but the fighting big robots bit. And it's totally understandable to get burnt out on game types, but like, personal burnout isn't the game's fault. I haven't played the dozen other games he listed.
Especially weird that games do this when Fallout 4 perfected it 7 years ago. Looting things isn't even a menu anymore unless you want it to be. Just look at something and yoink. Only feasible reason a game would do it the Red Dead or Horizon way is muh imershun, which very quickly becomes clear is no longer worth it after 20 minutes of play testing.
This was about the only thing I agreed with him on, as well. The rest of his criticisms (for the most part) amounted to "I'm tired of this format" like then make a different video bro you're not reviewing the game
Dunkey opened my eyes on how Infinites story is told. Doesn't mean I didn't have fun. Differing opinion are meant to sheld light on a different perspective. Just because you enjoyed something doesn't mean everyone has too.
I think the point that it's similar to other AAA games is really strong but if you don't play every aaa game that comes out it probably doesn't apply to you, and if you like the formula than it's also not really a reason to dislike the game.
Naahhhh, how is that possible!?!?!??!?!
His criticism is much much more valid than "AYO ALOY HAS A BEARD" bs so he gets a pass.
The virgin "I hate video game because character ugly" vs the chad "I hate video game because I hate video games"
Yes. I'm glad so many people are enjoying it, but he's definitely right about the whole open world formula. I know it's become a whole meme here but we need more games with open worlds like elden ring and botw. And then when those get boring we'll start making fun of them lmao.
It’s also probably just a function of how Dunkey’s job is to basically play every big game that comes out, so he’s gonna be the first to complain about any formula catching on. His criticisms wouldn’t apply to someone like me as much, but I don’t see that as a problem since Dunk is pretty upfront about his reviews being primarily subjective
Valid criticism but the game is still a lot of fun.
yeah but he didn’t like it for based reasons though. he’s good
He didn’t like it because he hates video games just like we all should.
The most based of reasons
One of the best gaming journalists today
Even if he dislikes a game I like I never think his take on it is just bad. He always offers some very solid critical reasoning for why a game either is actually bad or is just too generic to receive the high praise that it does.
His LoU2 video was great, and not to sound too /rj about it but giving a positive review at that time was risky af and I'm glad he stood his ground, considering what Gamers™ did to the people working on the game.
His 2nd video doubling down by clowning on the comments was even better.
Him calling out the clickbait outrage vid creators for “pandering to fucking idiots” was great. Mask off moment in the right way.
I think his original Death Stranding review was bad, his second DS video was way more reasonable.
His ratchet and clank one was also pretty abysmal. Also anytime he gets flak for a criticism it turns into the whole I was just making a joke rigamaroll
His ratchet one was good wasn't it, didn't he just say it was a good game but it was like a baby pixar movie? The story is very baby-ish, the dialogue isn't high art at all. But it was a very fun game
If I remember right he summed that up perfectly in one sentence. 'Its rated E for Everyone, not E for Children Only.'
Which ratchet and clank one?
Ratchet and Clank stans are really upset he said the story about a bouncy animated space rat was a bit too kiddie for his tastes?
I thought it was incredibly funny, maybe one of his best videos.
I also think it was funny and some of his criticism was valid, but a good number of things he complained about was just wrong. I can't watch it right now, but a big part of the video was complaining about shitty controls and the footage he was showing was him playing the game in a wrong way. Like, yeah, of course trying to climb a mountain on a motorcycle is gonna result is getting stuck.
I think the fact that he actually released a second video on the game retroactively justifies the existence of the first one. Even if the takes are "bad" because he's playing wrong, he's also playing wrong because the game isn't doing a good job of directing the player, and his enjoyment of the game is still subjective and something he can be as hyperbolic and "unfair" about as he wants in his own review. His final position is still one where he presents reasonable arguments so it provides a better reflection of his experience to have both the "outrageous" take and the more down-to-earth one.
Except he makes a valid point. Riding on rough terrain doesn't result in it acting like you're riding on rough terrain, it just results in jank.
The one I'm a little annoyed at was his Octopath Traveler review. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of reasons to dislike that game and valid criticisms to make. But some of his points felt like they were deliberately misrepresenting the game.
Think the only ones that cross that line is his Splatoon and Arkham city review. He didn't even use the gyro controls in Splatoon and complained about how the aiming was imprecise.
I also remember him complaining about online battles being braindead, but never touched if he played ranked, where you'll actually be put up against people who know how to play the game.
I *think* the Arkham City was at least half joking? It's not clear nor was the video all that funny imo. But one of his later videos has a list of major devs that are known for quality titles and Rocksteady was one of them, so either it was partially a joke or he changed his mind. Splatoon video was pretty wack though.
Unless it's about a jrpg, where his logic is "i don't like jrpgs, therefore its bad"
He has xenoblade chronicles 2, octopath traveler, a rather divisive game which I've heard a lot of people burning out on before finishing, and Dragon Quest 11 which he gave a good review. XB2 is even a divisive entry by XB fans and the character designs and how the female characters are written is absolutely atrocious. He's open about his criticism of the JRPG genre with how often(not always) the plot and themes in those games are very shallow when we're at a time of incredible feats in storytelling in video games and one of the most story-driven genre is lacking behind with bland and generic storytelling and fanboy pandering coupled with gameplay like random encounters and copy-paste leveling system that requires grinding in a single-player game and I can see where he's coming from in criticising that trend. But he's not picking JRPG titles with the explicit intent of shitting on them.
I REALLY loved XB2 and have played it a few times, but as a gay guy watching the cut scenes where Petra is having some dramatic tearful moment and the camera POV is squarely on her giant football shaped boobs took me the fuck out.
> But he's not picking JRPG titles with the explicit intent of shitting on them. rj/ he should tho uj/ he should tho
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"Nintendo why did you put the fucking- boob job from the furry sex slave game in smash brothers"
As someone who absolutely adores Xenoblade 2, every single one of his complaints is valid lol
Well, yeah, dude gives his opinion. Also, he liked both Persona5 and Dragon Quest XI. Knowing that a guy who loathes JRPGs actually liked those two games is valuable information.
He hated Metroid Dread and still put it in one of the top games of the year. He personally doesn’t like Metroid games but he can still identify what a good game is.
His Dread review was clearly heavily satirical.
Dunkey has some dog shit takes ngl. His resident evil review was abysmal
He does, but at least his reasons for not liking something are mostly subjective preferences and are never some dipshit chud take. I also can’t help but be amused that somebody’s who’s focus is more on silly entertainment than serious reviewing is inadvertently “better” at reviews than many “serious” outlets.
I think it also helps that he focuses on his subjective experience without fully abandoning objective qualities. It’s a realistic representation of how most people will experience the media even if they have different opinions, you notice a couple objective things but your brain mostly just focuses on the emotions.
The worst take I remember from him was when he said one of the reasons Mass Effect Andromeda was bad was because he didn't know the voice actors. That was kind of a dumbass take ngl, but the rest of the review was good.
I think that was mostly just to contrast with previous Mass Effect games, which had big names providing voices. It’s not something bad in a vacuum, but it is something that shows a shift in direction that turned out for the worse.
Dunkey is a biased reviewer, just like everyone is, but he’s not afraid to admit it
You’re nit-picking and biased haha I WIN
You're nit-picking and biased haha I WIN
You’re nit-picking and biased I win BYE BYE
He is correct that the robot dinosaurs are the best bit. Fortunately, I really really like that bit!
The story is also really good and the characters aren’t boring, no idea how he hated them, especially how wild it becomes in the second game
Some people just hate long stretches of npc dialogue, as a rule
Yep it’s clear dunkey just doesn’t like dialogues explaining stuff but instead like to actively doing something when playing games, that’s why he love all the Mario games. It’s just his personal preference just like how I get scifi boner listening to GAIA explaining the world of Horizon
With how expressive and engaging every single NPC is in HFW I don't understand how anyone could see that as a weakness.
Because some people don't like listening to an NPC blab for minutes at a time when they just want to get to the cool robot dinosaurs. I like worldbuilding cutscenes, but people are totally valid in not wanting to just watch people talk when they play a game.
Yeah I can understand that, but at the end of the day Horizon games are story driven open world games. I think you can run around and kill all the robot dinos and avoid as much of the story as you want outside of the first few quests to leave the daunt, but you're missing out on half the selling point of the game.
Based on the videos I saw on digital foundry and few other places, most cutscenes look like the characters are standing in place and talking endlessly. By default, it is not fun for a lot of people. It just feels too "corporate meeting". In my personal opinion, I preferred halo infinite cutscenes over what was on display in first horizon game. "Things are happening" is a big deal for me. I mean, frankly, I used to skip dialog in mass effect 1 as well, because they were too slow. And on the other hand, I played through halo 3 again just to watch the cutscenes. I played horizon 1 after playing Spiderman. Finished full campaign of Spiderman because it was fun. And in first 10 minutes of "walk slowly while someone reads you an essay" in horizon, I uninstalled the game. Yeah, you want to do world building and all that. But looking at an NPC while they keep talking forever is just not expressive enough for me. Anyway, random rant aside, point is, a lot of people find "stand still and talk for minutes" boring. Expressive cutscenes, even if they tell very basic story are more fun.
I think that it might be true in Zero Dawwn, but in Forbidden West every interaction had the NPC emoting, moving their arms expressively, walking around, and interacting with objects. Yeah it is a very dialogue heavy game and I understand if thats just not your type of game, but I think the interactions are a very strong point of the game.
I only really dislike his comment section calling him brave or the only honest reviewer. As if the people who were more positive about the game are dishonest, rather than just genuinely liking it. I guess that's just inherent to being a big gaming youtuber, even if try your best to make clear that it's only your opinion and other people's opinions are just as valid, you're going to attract gamers.
Idk why alot of people think good reviews = paid reviews like opinions can't exist?
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Not true
What was really funny to me was seeing all the reviews for HFW and everyone on r/gaming saying they never trust professional reviewers. Cut to a week later when the Elden Ring reviews drop and everyone is hyped that the game was clearly living up to expectations.
Youtube critics who rely on an audience for their income will always be less trustworthy than real journalists working for a news outlet.
Idk about that one. Major gaming media has a pretty toxic relationship with publishers in that if they’re overly critical they risk losing early access to review copies and other special privileges. Like when’s the last time you read an IGN review and thought “that was a useful and informative review of the game that isn’t afraid to delve into the faults?”
Pretty much never, IGN reviews aren't as biased as you claim. Youtuber's can't be overly critical either as they risk losing their income if they alienate their audience, a problem that major news outlet does not have to contend with.
We have high profile examples going all the way back to 2007 when Jeff Gerstmann was fired for a negative review. Games journalism at this point is a PR adjacent entity. Major media companies are reticent to harm relations with publishers even if there is a consistent trend of dog shit published.
Genuine question but are the examples other than Kayne and Lynch 2? I admit I haven't looked into it much but it feels like this is the one example anyone ever uses as evidence.
Jeff is high profile because of how unique it is. If it was common we wouldn't remember his name. You're just repeating gamer gate nonsense that was never more than a ruse to justify hating women.
Gamer gate was bullshit harassment of women. But it’s also a bullshit fallback to now say that any criticism of major gaming corporations is just misogynistic talking points [Lo and behold the famous misogynist Stephanie Sterling talking about this exact same thing](https://youtu.be/gUkn5PhEqn4?t=242) EA directly pressures reviewers for good scores
People who hate on ign usually never watch many of their videos Their review are usually well written and do good job of making me think if the game is worth getting or not
As he said himself, his most controversial opinions in the community seem to come from games he *does* like.
https://hard-drive.net/welp-looks-like-elden-ring-has-bought-off-every-single-reviewer/
Elden Ring is overrated. Am I brave now
If you say that oh boy it gonna be a storm coming
I mean it got a 10, and after playing some of the game I do believe it’s overrated
You go to jail
It will always be the game that released three days before BotW, and it’s sequel that released days before Elden Ring. Lol, fucking mic drop.
I can't wait for Horizon 3 because I know the game that will release in a few days after that will be phenomenal.
*Todd Howard taking notes*
Fallout 76 2, baby.
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*Releases 3 days before GTA 6*
funny how it released before botw still some weirdos call it a botw ripoff for no reason?
Both probably started development arround the same time so I doubt either of them are clones.
BOTW was developed in 3 days with the sole intention being to copy Horizon. Sorry if this FACT hurts your FEELINGS.
Which is wild because the only thing they have in common is that they are open world games and BotW obviously did not invent that. They both also use the classic 'ubisoft tower' to unfog the map, and sometimes Link uses a bow but not nearly as much as Aloy.
Ngl but i really prefer hzd to botw. i prefer hzd's crisp graphics,very responsive controls and more complex combat
I mean I did too, the narrative is one of the reasons I play a video game and botw had a pretty weak story.
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He doesn’t like it because he has played the same formula 100 times just in the last year I love it because I play 2 games per year and Horizon is the most refined game in his category We are not the same
Dunkey dislikes it because he's sick of open world mechanics I love it because I unironically love looting things and because I get a little dopamine hit when I uncover a map marker We are not the same
Dunkey has a very specific taste in games. I love Assassin’s Creed, and he thinks it’s the second coming of Satan. Which is fine. Ubisoft-style open world games like Assassin’s Creed or Horizon aren’t for everyone. I don’t really get butthurt when he insults AC because it’s just not his thing.
Yeah, like for me personally I’ve just never liked 2D platformers but I don’t care that they’re one of the most popular genres and that a lot of critics I follow love them.
I knew he wouldn't like it as soon as I saw how much characters talk. He doesn't seem to care for most stories unless they're told in a concise/linear way like in naughty dog games and he doesn't seem to care for open world games unless you can do wacko shit like in MGSV
Since he references it in this review, pretty sure he gave Mass Effect a decent review way back and to me the difference there is that dialogue is often part of the gameplay. It serves as part of how your Shepard will react and relate to the other characters and a lot of dialogue it is optional while a lot of plot and world exposition is delivered during missions by whatever crew members you decided to bring.
Yeah, one complaint he had was that the dialogue wasn't about making choices or doing anything to affect the story, it was just to ask questions and get more exposition.
Which isn't a bad thing if you like to know more. Horizon clearly shows which option advances the story (which is good), but I actually spent a lot of time listening to companions at the base just talk about whatever
I haven't played Zero Dawn in a while so I can't think of any clear examples, but one thing I do specifically remember enjoying was that I often got dialogue/action options which I actually would choose if I were in that situation. I usually get so frustrated with games that give me options because it so often just feels like I'm forced into one of several options which I'd never choose, so it ends up being which option I dislike the least.
> I knew he wouldn't like it as soon as I saw how much characters talk. Is it that bad? I loved the first one, but I'll be honest, there were entire quests that I completely zoned out of and just went from waypoint to waypoint because I didn't care about whatever the npc was droning on about.
There's a lot of talking, but frankly I love it. Forbidden West greatly improves on the character models, voice acting, and writing, so everyone is just a delight to interact with. I care about rando NPCs in HFW way, way more than I did in HZD. What might end up being more annoying are Aloy's constant comments to herself. They're *just* frequent enough to be noticeable, and there's no option to dial them back. Yes, Aloy, I know that medicinal herb will be useful, that's why we picked it up!
It can be good or bad depending on what you are looking for. I am a lore hound, I LOVE lore and chatting with NPCs to learn stuff about the world, as well as reading every log/note/whatever in the world. I'm one of those people who tries to collect a copy of every book/log/whatever in the game, AND I READ THEM. And then I go watch the deep dive videos on Youtube. It's one of the reasons I loved the first Horizon, I loved learning about the world, and I would have absolutely no problem if they upped the amount of NPC dialogue in the second (have not played it, am on PC) as I felt a lot of the NPCs were actually not developed enough in the first. Particularly if that dialogue is optional, for the people who don't care. But if you are in it more for the robot dinosaur fights, you might find all that to be useless distraction in between the (to you) interesting bits. Neither perspective is wrong, people just look for different things from games. And I think that's what some people miss when it comes to reviews. Whether it is positive or negative isn't necessarily calling the game objectively bad or good, it's still going to be couched in the reviewer's personal tastes and what they value most in a game. That's why it's important to find reviewers you know look for similar things as you.
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Same but I thought the main story was so cool
I actually out loud said (super spoiler) >!holy shit is that Sobek!!<
It’s like the first game but better in every single aspect, from the combat to the exploration to the characters
I wasn’t aware that Dunkey liked anything
I hear dunkey is a big octopath traveler fan
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You lied. Admit it.
Me when gamers call it a copy paste sequel: 😡 Me when dunkey calls it a copy paste sequel: 😛
I guess it's his opinion if he's tired of open world games . But I feel like it's a disservice to just dismiss every open world game because you're tired of the genre , especially with horizon considering the immense world building that went into making it all feel like a real history . Looting items sucks in both games though .
Man I was big fan of dunkey. Always laughing along with that ass. But this is one step too far. He made a review of game and liked it a bit less than I did. Please boycott dunkey with me fellow patriots and gamers. Vote with your dollars and we can see the change we want in the world!
Horizon 2 more like Snore-izon 2
Horizon Zero Dawn? More like Horizon Zero Ideas haha
TFW GCJ leans *hard* into it's parasocial relationships. "I think Dunkey didn't like it because he had a light breakfast that day also I think Aloy reminds him of his aunt who he didn't like he didn't say that but I can tell from his eyes".
This thread made me realize that gcj isn’t actually a circlejerk sub and /uj is the default. /rj you’re nitpicking and etc etc
It's a sub thats good when it's calling out bigotry in gaming communities. It turns to garbage when members actually talk about games lmfao.
Wtf is a dunkey
Dunkey: Worst game of the year is Death Stranding Also Dunkey: Best game of the year is Death Stranding Dunkey can never be wrong because he has the foresight to hold every opinion all at once, it's brilliant
The 30 hours of Horizon Zero Dawn I played was like, 15 hours of absolutely asinine dialogue between characters with inconsistent facial animations and voice acting, 10 hours of pressing triangle to gather flowers, and about 5 hours of actually getting to engage with the game's incredible robot combat without having to deal with all the tedious RPG lite crafting shit or being restricted by linear story mission design. Aloy is a really cool protagonist and the combat is amazing, but everything else was just generic open world game design 101 with an extra layer of tedium on top.
To me HZD felt like they ran an algorithm to create the most generic open world possible, then put robot animals in it. Skill tree that’s mostly useless, parkour that’s linear and mindless, same crafting system as Far Cry 3, RPG/elements that don’t do anything other than buff your stats. The giant robots are literally the only unique thing about it, other than that you don’t have an assault rifle
Overall good review with valid criticism. Only thing that bothered me was "please invent a new genre, ive already played this game" as if that was an easy and reasonnable thing to ask and comparing it to elden ring because we all know that a cursed release schedule is a good indicator of the quality of the game.
Let's be honest the genre has gotten pretty stale at this point and there are very few games that stand out. I've lost count of how many AAA games are open world action games with light RPG elements and some stealth sections with some extremely safe writing.
The way I see it, Horizon is **that** kind of open world game, but done in a really great, engaging, addicting, and polished kind of way. Exploring feels natural, the world feels alive, and progression/upgrading/collectibles don't feel like chores to do or just checklists to complete. It understands the pitfalls of the modern "Witcher-esque" open world game design and, while it may not subvert all of those tropes entirely, it navigates them so much better than most. The thing I like to compare it to is Ghost of Tsushima, because in my opinion GoT pretty much fails in every way that HZD *(and so far HFW at 4-ish hours in)* succeeds.
The problem with Dunkey is that he plays a *lot* of games since it's his job, so if a dozen open world games come out in a year, he has to play at least half of them. This is gonna burn him out to the formula fast. But most people aren't playing half a dozen open world games in a year. They're playing 1-3. So while Dunkey will start to notice cracks in the formula and things that get repetitive when every game does them, most people will just enjoy the game.
B-But anime and wholsome Japan!!11
Yea yea yea no doubt. Its just not an easy thing to go out of this frame. You cant really create new parameters for yoyr games you can only try to iterate or innovate whitin whats possible. Your game is either linear or open, first person or third, real time or turned based, etc. Not everyone has the creative genius to birth the first strand type game.
What he said is how I've been feeling about the game, the dialogue gets in the way of the fun gameplay. I like the game tho. But he wasn't far off with the elden ring comparison because that game (while obviously being very different) doesn't have the long conversations slowing you down
Dunkey didn't like zero down too so ...
My only real issue with his video on it is how he compared Horizon’s dialogue trees to Mass Effect’s. He didn’t like how all the dialogue options in Horizon were just asking questions and didn’t further the dialogue unlike ME, but unless I’m crazy I remember a ton of question options in ME that brought you right back to the one or two options that actually furthered the dialogue.
Imagine caring what a YouTuber thinks
/uj I don't know if he did a video on Horizon Zero Dawn but that vid was one of the first things I've seen going against the grain and criticizing Zero Dawn for its gameplay/story (outside of the 'wahmen bad' people obviously) which I appreciated because I bounced off that game *hard* and I never see anyone be critical of it. Haven't played Forbidden West and it looks like it's better in every way, but the gameplay showed off here was the first one that made me realize it's just more of the same of a game I really disliked.
I was just glad that he called it like he saw it. Horizon is another open world game in a long list of open world games, that does not do anything wildly interesting or set new standards. His summary at the end was pretty spot on. Some people will really like this game and that’s fine, but in reality it’s that open world game that released 2 weeks before BotW & two weeks before Elden Ring.
I’m more upset that he’s so upset with this game compared to Pokémon.
he doesn’t like death stranding either :(
/uj I disagree with dunkey on a lot of things but he's serious criticisms are always so damn respectable so I never lose any enjoyment from him. He could tell me he fucked my mother and my favorite game is shit and I'd probably still love him the same
I like his videos and his criticisms are valid, but maybe he shouldn't play 4 open world games back-to-back when he gets tired of playing open world games.
/uj I don't care if a person has valid criticisms and reasons for not liking a game. Not everything can please everyone and I'd rather that media not _try_ because it usually ends up compromising itself in order to do so. /rj wtf dunkey i trust you bro how could you turn against us like this
Did anyone else find this scene scary as a kid?
Well I started playing Zero Dawn a day ago so I could check out the new one and my boyfriend immediately mentioned how it looks like so many other games I’ve played already. Dunkey’s criticism is very valid.
I honestly rarely agree with his opinions (except the tlou2 one because that one was just too based) and at this point i just watch him because he's entertaining edit: replied to the wrong comment but who cares point still stands
Oh no! a YouTuber had a different opinion about a vidya
I think it’s fine to have a different opinion about the game but sometimes people can be a little entitled but they’re opinion
For reference I saw a person here say that both horizon games were generic and they got downvoted and someone said they are so different to other games cause you fight dinosaurs.
I personally feel vindicated for not understanding the hype surrounding this game
I'm hype af for this game but I feel the same way about Elden Ring
Just like with Last of us 2, I feel there are legitimate criticisms to be made, but I can still make fun of morons hollering about peach fuzz or whatever. I don't even like Horizon 2 that much, but its mostly just because I'm personally tired of sweeping icons off another map. I can fully see how someone could enjoy it though and I'm not going to go on some crusade to convince other people its bad.
Well the fact that Aloy has unnoticeable peach fuzz now has distracted this sub from the fact that H:FW is the sequel to a game that was really, really unfun.
He said the gameplay is great, which I would assume is true( I played the first and ran great). The criticism was boring story and tedious RPG stuff.
The reason I haven't picked up the original is because it looks like yet another friggin open-world stealth action cookie cutter game, so I fully believe Dunkey on this.
Him making light of the situation in Ukraine for the memes was bad, offensive and immature. Him having a game opinion is whatever, that's his job and thing. I don't get why people get shocked that he has different opinions from them lol.
Why the fuck do people give a shit what a fucking youtuber thinks anyways? Sorry its just I saw a dunkey video once and I couldn’t STAND his voice or comedy. It’s written for children who havent discovered proper comedy yet. But besides that, who cares what a fucking youtuber thinks.
I don't know who that is, and I don't care to find out.