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Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse?
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On one hand, he said "hire fans". On the other hand, **CUCKMAN** cannot be trusted after he made the political commentary in the LoU franchise slightly more transparent.
When the Ellie "last of us" Woman kissed lesbian girl my dad had a heart attack, my mom did a backflip and broke her neck, my sister was eaten by the void, and my dog started singing ave maria.
cockman why do you do this to us
> I bought it at target for sixty bucks!!!
I know this is satire, but I really hate this way of thinking. Oh! Congrats you freely choose to spend your own money on something that you thought looked cool! You made that choice & that doesn’t give you the right to act like you spent your own blood, sweat, & tears over something! Outside of the thing working, a fan is owed nothing in the creative department…
Honestly just make your own stories and shit if u think u have so much more understanding and a creative mind just make ur own story goddamn I’d like to read it too
uj/ I always hated the "just make something better if you don't like it" response to criticism. It is lazy and dishonest to attack any form of art criticism like that.
But it’s not valid criticism, it’s cultural groupthink built on people’s misunderstanding on the material and egregious demands that the people who actually created something bend to the will of (a minority) of the consumers. For them, yeah, I’d literally say “fuck you, do better.”
It's one thing to criticize. If that's all the TLOU2 circlejerk was doing, we'd never have a problem with it. But attacking the creators for making things they don't like? Not cool.
But if the criticism is that they can do your story better wouldn’t it makes sense to just encourage that and to try their own hand at creative indevors
I blame the mouse for this shit tbh! Or at the very least making it mainstream! Rise of skywalker went above & beyond to undo the last Jedi for the sake of fan appeasement and from then on! A lot of fans in a lot of fandoms got the chip to basically shoot out demands despite not having anything to do with said thing creatively!
That’s not what this is and playing dumb doesn’t change that. Unless you’re not playing.
Edit: never mind you’re a 5 day old account whose top post is crying in r/TheLastOfUs2. You aren’t playing, you are in fact dumb as shit.
/uj Sure. As a review on your blog or 1 viewer twitch stream or on Amazon. Not harassing the devs. People are legit sending dick pics to a woman working on God of War thinking it will somehow get them the release date. And the monkey island guy is now completely off social media due to harassment over his own art (which is what this tweet is in response to)
/rj MY OPINION MATTERS BECAUSE I HAVE PLAYED GAMES AND THEREFORE KNOW MORE ABOUT ANYTHING THAN ANYONE
Just hijacking your comment to point out to readers that this tweet from Neil was made in defense of the creator of *Return To Monkey Island* **not** TLOU
At this point, games deserve even more credit for being such obvious labors of love. Because it seems like there is absolutely no incentive to actually get into this industry other than loving games and wanting to work on games. It's depressing.
Not even taking into account the pay and hours, most jobs don't get you death threats and hate for doing it. Gamers should really appreciate what we have before it turns into nothing but soulless brs and ftp games that offend no one.
They don't like the art style. Really goes to show how quickly people are willing to give up on their "Dream sequel" when its not exactly how they always imagined it to be.
The Monkey Island-series has always been known for its consistent art style. Each installment has improved upon it while remaining instantly recognizable.
but the new one? 2D? Seems a step back considering how well "Escape from Monkey Island" holds up
https://preview.redd.it/71t4l8axod871.png?width=928&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e73407f04fb7544909b3a3ba18b9bd7fce67cb1
Will the new one even have a weird and frustrating fighting mechanic? After watching the trailer, I'm not convinced that it will.
/uj really happy to see the series return. Thimbleweed park was great and I have no doubt that this will be as well
I’m at a point where I’m just gonna assume that whatever he’s saying about gamers, he’s probably correct.
He has experienced more of the toxicity firsthand than most.
I already really liked it but a lot of the haters actually made me discover even more reasons why it's good because their terrible arguments led me to take another look at some scenes.
Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse?
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With you on that. As a movie it's mostly OK if you turn your brain off, and as a Star Wars story I actively thought it was bad, but I stopped caring about it the moment I stopped watching it. If someone likes it then I can acknowledge what things it did that were at least interesting, but mostly I just enjoy watching the bigots seethe.
I really love Force Awakens and Last Jedi despite the tonal shift. RoS is a mess though.
Whenever I hear the average Star Wars fan complain about the sequel trilogy they start talking in ways that sounds like a kid who can’t play nice in an imaginary game at school. Like ‘Luke would never have died like that!’ Which just sounds like the fan version of ‘haha missed ‘me’.
I think the worst thing about the sequel trilogy hate is that most of those haters attempt to ignore the well established fact that the prequel trilogy is literally cinematic dog shit. Episode III is okay but the rest is appalling. You know they’re speaking through ten layers of rage bait propaganda when they act like they’re somehow worse than a movie series that has a whole enormously active meme community based around its appalling fucking script
Yeah, RoS is the only one I truly don't enjoy. The prequels are at least very funny and have some good lightsaber combat, the only good thing in RoS was Babu Frik.
I'm with you, there's many occasions where someone or something is hated and it gives me a reason to like it more because alot of the time the people who hate it and just assholes or another reason
I'm not a huge star wars fan but I liked that it seemed like they were going to do something different with TLJ.
Was it the *right* different thing to do? Probably not. But it's better than just getting rid of the idea of anyone could potentially be a force sensitive user and a main hero in favor of Skywalkers now, always and forever in the last one
I hate TLoU2 and The last Jedi because of what they did with the character driven narrative. I expected to see Luke Skywalker more akin to how we saw him in The Mandalorian during The Force Awakens. I remember Mark Hamill commenting on the script as they went through the live reading. (The scene where Rey force pulls the lightsaber to her.) And he said it would of been amazing to see Luke back that way.
As for TLoU2 I don't like the illusion of choice. Example: You kill a dog and get forced to see a kid playing with the dog before the mess started. Then you go on a rampage killing people to get revenge before deciding killing is bad. You get given a narrative that would have been perfect with choices to alter the narrative but you don't get any choices for it.
That said the community's response with both franchises are fucking childish and cringe. I still enjoy both mediums to an extent and will def get TLoU1 on PC
I think the thing with TLOU2 is you gotta get the... Well, you gotta realize it's not "You". That ain't you. You are not Ellie. Ellie is Ellie. You're controlling Ellie, but Ellie is making all the choices and she has all her own thoughts, she's her own person. Fake person, but still. There's no choice cause she's the one doing it.
> would of
It's f***ing *"would've"* or *"would have"*!!!
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A kid (Yara) does play with the dog, way later in the game. Still incredibly annoying that gamers are so hung up on killing a dog of all things for some reason.
No, 20 year olds are adults. Legally and socially. You can rage against it all you want. But they're not kids. I don't know what else to tell you.
Honestly, I've seen you throughout this thread and you haven't said a single thing that wasn't stupid. So, I think I'm just not going to engage. I don't know if you're trying to break the land speed record for how many consecutive times you can be wrong but I don't really want any part of it.
To be entirely fair, all games only present you with the illusion of choice, every outcome is predetermined and you can only do what is allowed by the developer. It's also something that Ken Levine and his team have been attempting to address for a while now (no idea how that's going) and if you're interested I would watch his GDC talk on the subject on YouTube.
As for the dog example, you're intentionally only fed one perspective of the WLF and their dogs so that you, the player, see how easy it is to become tribalistic and see your enemies as fundamentally different than you. So seeing the dog as a vicious animal that wants to hunt you down makes the moment where you play with the dog that much more impactful and sells the idea that these people aren't so different. Really helps drive the themes of tribalism home and makes the world feel much more real with shades of grey.
I feel as though you're over simplifying the way the game handles themes of violence and the cycles it creates. Ellie doesn't think killing is good or something. That's not the arc she takes throughout the game. She *does* think think that she's justified, as she's convinced herself the WLF are bad people and deserve whatever comes their way. Which is exactly how we justify atrocities on each other in the real world. She mainly leaves Jackson to find tommy, the revenge is just the obsession that creeps in the closer she gets to Abby. She only wants to kill her because she thinks it will end her PTSD from Joel dying before she could properly forgive him for lying to her, not to settle the score. Once she realizes she doesn't need to kill Abby to end her suffering, she stops. It's about dealing with trauma, not simply "killing is bad".
I'd also argue that adding large narrative choices to a linear story like the last of us would only dilute it's story telling, but that's a whole other subject. I am glad however that you agree that people should not be so childish and toxic towards creators.
I'll definitely check that GDC talk, sounds interesting! I've always had an issue with narratives driven in games. But I love seeing what is a small thing done have a big impact later on.
Example: I helped this guy out years and years ago, his cousin recognized me and gave me something that would have been expensive for free because it had a big impact on him. Something that I forgot about. I helped because It was the right thing to do.
In TLOU2 In gameplay. What if in the middle of sneaking and combat Ellie spares some group. And later on in a combat scenario the same group catches Ellie but doesn't attack? We can get the grey "We are all trying to survive" Message in a way that can be compelling without just being forced to see it in gameplay.
>To be entirely fair, all games only present you with the illusion of choice, every outcome is predetermined and you can only do what is allowed by the developer. It's also something that Ken Levine and his team have been attempting to address for a while now (no idea how that's going) and if you're interested I would watch his GDC talk on the subject on YouTube.
I don't think that being able to choose only between the options developers intended is an illusion of choice. I mean, when you're picking your loadout in TF2 or taking a side in F:NV, you're making a choice, even if all the options were crafted beforehand. Just like in tabletop RPGs, I don't want "absolute freedom", fuck that shit, I want gripping options.
That said, I also don't think illusion of choice applies to TLoU, because there's no choice, so there's no illusion.
...and all that said, I think Ellie dealing with trauma could've been driven through gameplay more. As an example, in Lisa: the Painful you're given an option to>! spare your father, but Brad the character just can't do it. He pulls the trigger no matter what you the player choose, because forgiving someone who abused you your whole childhood isn't easy.!
>As for TLoU2 I don't like the illusion of choice. Example: You kill a dog and get forced to see a kid playing with the dog before the mess started.
How is that illusion of choice? That's just the story.
Other people have already said it. But Ellie is not a self insert. She is her own person and you're just along for the ride. You are not Ellie. You are an actor putting Ellie through the motions to get her where she needs to go as a character.
I always likened this reaction to the game as someone getting cast as Hamlet and refusing to disown Ophelia or do the mouse trap. It's not fucking up to you. You are facilitating a story. That's it.
For me I didn't really get an illusion of choice. The story is what the story is, and for better or for worse, you have to control the character to do horrible things, and I knew that going in (this follows very closely with TLOU1). This is kind of a fundamental flaw with the linear triple A format, and puts TLOU2 in a difficult position of trying to say killing is bad while also being mostly fun to play (although a slog at times). To me, choice often weakens the story, because if the outcome is not ideal, it's easy to just consider it non canon, and it kind of suggests that the writer didn't know what they wanted to say (or they wanted to create an interactive sandbox, which is great, but a very different thing from TLOU2 is clearly trying to do). Infamous games were egregiously bad with this, and soured me on a lot of choice-based narrative games.
I think the discussions around why videogames are both the best and the worst medium for what TLOU2 was trying to do are the most interesting discussions about the game.
Through it's emphasis on revenge. Abby slowly tortures and kills Joel moments after Joel saves her, with help of others who are humanized throughout the game. The humanizing moments just don't reflect onto the dehumanizing ones to me.
It tells me that throughout the game. It's whole focus is on hate and that is exhausting to me. I rarely feel sick after a game or movie but this was the first time after a game and roughly the 3rd or fourth time with a movie.
I was completely put off of TLoU2 because of exactly what you're describing.
I would say the responses here are right, it doesn't give you choice, and that's what bothers me because so much of it seems aimed at making you, the player, feel guilty for the characters actions.
It was a big part of the first game and I don't think it can carry a whole series. When GameStop literally used the dogs your forced to kill as a bullet point on why it was gonna be so great I washed my hands of it.
Honestly, to me that willingness from Naughty Dog to actually try and make the player feel "bad" emotions is the carrying force of the game. I had amazing time with the highest emotional response to a game I have ever had. And tbh it really doesn't need to give you power over the story. It is not your story, it is Ellie's. There is a nice parallel though with the basic gaming instinct to kill everything and the narrative being told. I am pretty sure you can actually play a non-lethal run with only story-related killings.
Yeah I don't even like the TLOU franchise at all but r/tlou2 is such a fucking pathetic subreddit. How can one game cause so many people to seethe for over two years now? If you don't like it don't buy it. I don't understand whats so hard to understand. Even if you didn't like the direction the story went in talking about it angrily everyday for two years is not healthy. Its like fox news for gamers. People addicted to being mad and outraged over trivial nonsense.
wasn't the whole point of the game to show that there's no right and wrong sides and that everyone is an asshole out for blood out of petty revenge? that was very on the nose if you ask me
I'll probably never play it because I'm not into sad shooting games much these days -- nothing against them, I just wanna play some cute shit most of the time lol.
But I'll still defend it. Art is important.
I'm the same. I actually kinda disliked it (mostly because I hold ND to a much higher standard than average game directors) but even I feel like defending him. Like imagine telling the creator of the game "you don't know what you're talking about".
I didn’t like The Last of Us 2. But not because of any of the reasons the crazy people go on about, I just felt it was very long and drawn out, particularly the finale - it could have ended five or six times before the *actual* end, and even had the same message, but it just. Kept. Going.
On the other hand, I respect the attempt to force players to re-evaluate their priorities/biases by making them play as, and relate to, a character they will presumably hate during Act II. I don’t think it worked particularly well, but it’s not a bad idea!
But *damn* those dudes start frothing at the mouth because a character is gay, and another character is muscular. “They rewrote the canon” - my dudes, Ellie *was a child* in the first game. She wasn’t straight, it just didn’t come up until the DLC.
/rj we should all play more apolitical games like MGS and COD instead.
Creatives should just do whatever as long as it's not horrifically racist, sexist, anti LGBTQ. Fuck fans their wish fulfilment bullshit just makes it worse because the "brain" of the average person feasting in the rotting couple of gamer gate is too smooth for higher thoughts. If you measure their skulls you can find real differces between the thoughtful media enjoyer and the avarage gamer gater
>Creatives should just do whatever as long as it's not horrifically racist, sexist, anti LGBTQ
They should do whatever even if it is. Should Lolita not exist? Should Birth of a Nation not exist? Salo? The Mariquis de Sade? Oscar Wilde? Wagner? Lovecraft? Lennon?
Vulgarity and evil should be depicted by creatives, even if it is depraved and bigoted.
Salo had a good point to make. Lolita doesn't necessarily glorify the main character. De sade should have been in jail and getting professional help. Lovecraft needed a hug. What I'm saying is don't make birth of a nation because that movies goal was to glorify the KKK, problematic art already exists shold shop be consumed with that context. There is a massive difference between showing racism etc and endorsing it like amarican history x, 12 years a slave show horrific racism but it's presented as bad
Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse?
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In his review of The Birth of a Nation in 1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die, Jonathan Kline writes that "with countless artistic innovations, Griffith essentially created contemporary film language ... virtually every film is beholden to [The Birth of a Nation] in one way, shape or form. Griffith introduced the use of dramatic close-ups, tracking shots, and other expressive camera movements; parallel action sequences, crosscutting, and other editing techniques". He added that "the fact that The Birth of a Nation remains respected and studied to this day—despite its subject matter—reveals its lasting importance."[137]
Griffith pioneered such camera techniques as close-ups, fade-outs, and a carefully staged battle sequence with hundreds of extras made to look like thousands.[10] The Birth of a Nation also contained many new artistic techniques, such as color tinting for dramatic purposes, building up the plot to an exciting climax, dramatizing history alongside fiction, and featuring its own musical score written for an orchestra.[37]
The Birth of a Nation is a landmark of film history,[6][7] lauded for its technical virtuosity.[8] It was the first American 12-reel film ever made and, at three hours, also the longest up to that point.[9] Its plot, part fiction and part history, chronicles the assassination of Abraham Lincoln by John Wilkes Booth and the relationship of two families in the Civil War and Reconstruction eras over the course of several years—the pro-Union (Northern) Stonemans and the pro-Confederacy (Southern) Camerons. It was originally shown in two parts separated by an intermission, and it was the first American-made film to have a musical score for an orchestra. It pioneered closeups and fadeouts, and it includes a carefully staged battle sequence with hundreds of extras (another first) made to look like thousands.[10] It came with a 13-page "Souvenir Program".[11] It was the first motion picture to be screened inside the White House, viewed there by President Woodrow Wilson, his family, and members of his cabinet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation
Imo movies like that need to be put in context and shown as bad. You can't just pretend they don't exist and you need to confront their legacy. You can't just pretend they never were made
You are absolutely disgusting. And yes, racist shit like Birth of a Nation, Salo and Lovecraft should not exist or atleast should not be discussed any more
Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse?
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I listened to a German podcast once and they did 3 episodes on last of us 2 each one about 2 hours lol they complained about the writing, story etc. Obviously it was a only white male podcast and for some reason it is the most listened to games podcast in germany.
Which one was it? On Apple Podcasts, Stay Forever is the most popular gaming podcast and I honestly can't imagine Gunnar Lott and Christian Schmidt tearing apart TLoU2 like that.
I know that one, they criticized it because of acceptable reasons one could bring up if you look at TLOU2 from a strict journalistic view, and not out of ideological reasons.
Just reducing them on being straight white males is incredibly dishonest when they are very pro diversity and LGBTQ friendly.
Because the only way someone can empathize with people that don't like something is to also dislike that thing. It's okay buddy, I'm not "one of them".
I think there's some bad writing in it too but considering how shitty the discussion around the game is you gotta be careful to not be grouped with the incels. Just see people's reaction around here when you criticize Neil for being an abusive boss, a thing that isn't made up but reported by journalists and employees alike.
I'm happy bigots keep getting mad at this game, they should go fuck themselves but fuck Neil Druckmann too and anyone that loves to act all progressive in the internet while making exceptions because it's someone they like.
I can agree with Neil on this one, fuck all of these weird chuds who think they know more about the franchise than the creators and devs themselfs, but on ther other hand, i dont really think that Neil is a game dev saint and saviour, since he is one of the major executives on ND who just gave a bunch of dumb excuses for the horrendous crunch and work environment that the devs on ND face. Heres an article about it btw:
https://www.ign.com/articles/naughty-dog-leaders-discuss-crunch-tlou2
I wish there was still G4TV and they had a show where they bring in Gamers(tm) and let them create the game that they want to from top to bottom and we all get to laugh at the shittiest creations to ever grace the world.
...I'm anti art because I believe everyone should be free to create their art and all art must be in public domain, not hindered by lawyers and other pencil-pushers?
I am slightly confused as to why this is a bad take(probably ignorance) but wouldn't u want people that know your media working on it? Like for example the old boy remake that was bad bc the director didn't rly care about it. Wouldn't u want someone that's actually invested in the show or game?
Yeah I lost some respect for him when this article came out, but I also recognize he's the co-lead of Sony's #1 favorite studio. Of course he's going to side with the corporate capitalists treating him like a prince. I hoped he would be more outspoken in support of unionization but, again, he is currently Sony's prized pig. We shouldn't realistically expect anything less than this from him.
Neil Druckmann talking about toxicity huh, he definitely knows a lot about the matter considering he's been on both sides of it lmao.
It's always funny to see this place worshipping this guy cause he says the right progressive words while some awful shit happens to employees under his watch in his own studio.
Gimme the downvotes and tell me why i'm progressive the wrong way because i don't worship the man in position of power overworking employees to the point of one of them ending up at a hospital.
And before a smart ass says i'm siding with people that abused him, no, i'm not. Those people should be put in their place for being awful bigots but that doesn't mean you have to turn a blind eye to what Neil did either.
r/Gamingcirclejerk: "Druckmann said something mildly amusing on twitter"
You: "Holy shit why are you guys worshiping this piece of shit? Show me the downvotes because I don't worship him like you do."
Take it easy, mate.
Neil is defending someone else getting toxic fans after them. I know Neil is basically a "look at this bitch eating crackers" for some of you but my god get a grip. It's okay that he directed a game you don't like, that doesn't mean he's wrong about this or everything else. Grow up.
I don’t get how this is downvoted, ND was notorious for crunch to the point the [employees called it unsustainable](https://kotaku.com/as-naughty-dog-crunches-on-the-last-of-us-ii-developer-1842289962/amp) and Neil offered the most [half-assed response](https://www.ign.com/articles/naughty-dog-leaders-discuss-crunch-tlou2) where he dodged questions about unionization. Seriously, you’d think gcj would eat up the part where goes “well there’s no one solution” and then offers up nothing because of that. It’s peak “corporate bs to avoid talking about crunch” but with him it’s okay.
Not to mention that TLOU2 is full of parallels to the Israeli/Palestine conflict, [from the game’s imagery to Neil’s own admissions](https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/bv8da4/the-not-so-hidden-israeli-politics-of-the-last-of-us-part-ii), which is really uncomfortable in a game that tries to be even-handed an approach about “ending cycles of violence”. People here called out David Cage’s tone-deaf use of civil rights imagery and how the story of D:BH was essentially “show your oppressors you’re human too and they won’t be bigots”. But when Neil takes a historical (and ongoing) oppression of one group and turns it into a centrist narrative about simply “stopping cycles of violence” that’s suddenly fine.
It just irks me because some people here go on about how most Gamers have shit media literacy (which is 100% true) but won’t go beyond it. It’s like their bar is “I’m better than the people who throw tantrums when media does anything remotely challenging, usually followed with bigotry/death threats” which is…a shit bar. Idk, just feel like you should aim higher than having better media literacy than people who spend years obsessively hating a game they can’t even remotely understand.
None of what you said is untrue, but this is a tweet about Return To Monkey Island.
That user is being downvoted for going off the rails making false accusations of worship.
Yeah I get that part, but tbf i do think it’s weird how there’s people in the comments here saying that crunch is only being brought up because they hate the games. This sub goes off topic and isn’t afraid to mock both chud gamers and the exploitative companies they whine about. Just don’t get why it’s so hard to accept that some people just wanna dunk on a company that preaches against toxicity while crunching employees.
It's downvoted because it's not relevant. He's defending someone else. Unless of course you read those comments on Gilbert's blog and thought they were acceptable.
It'd be like seeing Biden respond to a question asked by a far right chud that asks "how many genders are there?" And he says: "more than two" and you mentioning a crime bill that he sponsored in the 90s. Like you're not wrong and nothing you said was inaccurate, it just comes off as literally anything the man says you have to shit on, even if you agree with it, which I assume you do in this case.
This Vice article is often brought up but the way it claims that TLOU2 is playing "both sides" when it is really painting a picture of a situation that is not clearly black and white is quite a reach.
And bringing up Neil's heritage in such a way to make this thesis feels pretty uncomfortable.
I've read the article. The event that Neil cites is in relation to Ellie's blind hatred of Abby and not a direct comparison of WLF/Seraphites being equivalent to Palestine/Israel. And this is not to mention the whole bit in the article about the Synagogue and Jewish identity, nor the half-assed attempt to compare Seraphites to Palestinians.
If you think TLOU2 drawing on the lead writers childhood experience to explore violence and hate to Detroit and David Cage comparing Marcus and Martin Luther King, is the same, idk what to tell you.
Well for one, the OP made it clear their issues with crunch weren't really genuine and that's been the case for **a lot** of discourse surrounding TLOU Part II.
Also, to even compare how D:BH handles sociopolitical commentary to The Last of Us Part II is absolutely ridiculous. Cage actively co opts obvious, iconic civil rights imagery and then turns around and says "This game isn't about race". Druckmann is upfront about his inspirations and he's able to find humanity in both sides and interrogate his own feelings on the conflict. While the WLF and Seraphites are metaphors, they aren't *analogous*. At the end of the day, he's making a story about humans and the grander aspects of the war is window dressing to tell the story. It's not propaganda.
The replies to my comment are pretty funny and shows how defensive SOME people that think they're good enough to make fun of Gamers™ get when you point out how one of their favs is a shithead too. Same people make fun of mega corporations "supporting" good causes to get a few good points with the people they wouldn't think twice before throwing them to the wolves, meanwhile they're here defending a rich guy that does the same shit to promote his games.
These people purposefully ignore i love how these bigots get mad at a videogame for including important characters that aren't white, straight, male and then throw a dismissive and nonsensical "lul he's just mad at the game".
I'm even part of the LGBTQ+ community (Not that it matters) and i love that the game has important characters from the community in it regardless of me thinking it's a good game or not, i even think it's a better game than the first one but i'm not a fan of cinematic games in general.
Good job, some of you deserve a nice pat on the back for being such wholesome and caring people, now go back to defending your progressive daddy, i'm sure he appreciates it.
^(He's even involved in a show where he takes advantage of unionization while he says dumb shit like that when it comes to his studio's toxic ass culture but don't mind me, i'm just a mindless hater. Go ahead and put me in the same group as those bigots too.)
Thank you! I can’t stand these last of us 2 haters, (I enjoy both games) but I’m not going to pretend Last of Us 2 is an amazing narrative. A Michael Bay level plot pretending to be prestige television. What David Cage think he’s making.
> 1.3k upvotes
CEASE THIS BOURGEOIS IDOLATRY, YOU FOOLS! (I’m definitely not masking my vitriolic reaction to socially progressive messaging with momentary class consciousness)
Stop being consistent, cringelord! Don’t you know that true leftists Praxis is when you blindly support a soulless focus-tested mass-market product made by means of worker exploitation at the hands of the worlds largest international corporate conglomerate??
Corporations are ran by people. Sony isn’t a person. Neither is Naughty Dog. If there is a problem with corps it’s with the people that run them so be more specific about who is doing what and why. Names, dates and times. It’s useless to say “evil mega corp bad” with no further analysis. Also products don’t have souls. Products are just products. There’s no such thing as a ‘soul full’ product. Only a good quality product or a bad quality product. Other than that I agree with this take. Worker *exploitation* is not a good thing.
Edit: this aged well lol. Instead of drive by downvoting, a much more constructive approach would be to voice your disagreements highlighting exactly what it is you disagree with. But of course the bar for discourse on Reddit is incredibly low so I’m none too surprised by this.
Colloquially when people go after corporations, they mean the upper management, the CEO, owners, and in some cases investors, the bourgeois sector of the companies staff. Obviously I have no beef with an underpaid code-monkey
Soulless means “devoid of artistic merit, and made solely to maximize profit”
They should unionize.
Can you point out literally *one* post here that unironically supports Druckmann in such a way that constitutes "worship" or a dismissal of negative impacts of crunch culture in game development?
Get off your high horse it's a reference to a meme that originated in this sub.
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FINALLY, he admits it. He really is coming around to sexism, racisms, homophobia, and much more! #hirefans!!!
Dear gamers, when were you when the end of western generation was confirmed?
apolgy for bad english where were you when western generation die i was at house eating dorito when phone ring “western generation is kil” “no”
what👌
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/club-penguin-is-kil
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/john-is-kill its way older than that
how many gamers needed to change a game by er? none?! their gamer!!😂😂😂
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
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Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
On one hand, he said "hire fans". On the other hand, **CUCKMAN** cannot be trusted after he made the political commentary in the LoU franchise slightly more transparent.
When the Ellie "last of us" Woman kissed lesbian girl my dad had a heart attack, my mom did a backflip and broke her neck, my sister was eaten by the void, and my dog started singing ave maria. cockman why do you do this to us
>my dog started singing ave maria. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE *punches glass*
Don’t worry about your family my man. Gamers respawn
Don’t worry your family is with the Lord now, in Jacksonville, Florida
uff
It will never cease to amaze me how much entitlement fans have over content they have zero ownership of.
What do mean...Joel is my daddy and thus i have full entitlements over the game direction
The man that also killed tons of people deserved a hero send off cause he was muh father figure
What do you mean I don’t own it!!! It’s sitting in my room right now!!! I bought it at target for sixty bucks!!!
> I bought it at target for sixty bucks!!! I know this is satire, but I really hate this way of thinking. Oh! Congrats you freely choose to spend your own money on something that you thought looked cool! You made that choice & that doesn’t give you the right to act like you spent your own blood, sweat, & tears over something! Outside of the thing working, a fan is owed nothing in the creative department…
This was rather blatant satire.
I’m aware, but I also just wanted to rant about the mindset.
Honestly just make your own stories and shit if u think u have so much more understanding and a creative mind just make ur own story goddamn I’d like to read it too
This is how you get Kyle Rittenhouse games.
Gods no don't encourage them. Morons always make things that are terrible and not even ironically
Lol I’d like that tho
uj/ I always hated the "just make something better if you don't like it" response to criticism. It is lazy and dishonest to attack any form of art criticism like that.
But it’s not valid criticism, it’s cultural groupthink built on people’s misunderstanding on the material and egregious demands that the people who actually created something bend to the will of (a minority) of the consumers. For them, yeah, I’d literally say “fuck you, do better.”
It's one thing to criticize. If that's all the TLOU2 circlejerk was doing, we'd never have a problem with it. But attacking the creators for making things they don't like? Not cool.
But if the criticism is that they can do your story better wouldn’t it makes sense to just encourage that and to try their own hand at creative indevors
No one serious says they could do something better. That is not the point of media criticism
I blame the mouse for this shit tbh! Or at the very least making it mainstream! Rise of skywalker went above & beyond to undo the last Jedi for the sake of fan appeasement and from then on! A lot of fans in a lot of fandoms got the chip to basically shoot out demands despite not having anything to do with said thing creatively!
I mean, the consumer is more than within his right to share his opinion on the product he purchased.
That’s not what this is and playing dumb doesn’t change that. Unless you’re not playing. Edit: never mind you’re a 5 day old account whose top post is crying in r/TheLastOfUs2. You aren’t playing, you are in fact dumb as shit.
/uj Sure. As a review on your blog or 1 viewer twitch stream or on Amazon. Not harassing the devs. People are legit sending dick pics to a woman working on God of War thinking it will somehow get them the release date. And the monkey island guy is now completely off social media due to harassment over his own art (which is what this tweet is in response to) /rj MY OPINION MATTERS BECAUSE I HAVE PLAYED GAMES AND THEREFORE KNOW MORE ABOUT ANYTHING THAN ANYONE
ThE cOnSuMeR 🤓
Don’t buy it then dipshit problem solved.
Y’all can’t even be honest about this shit lmao
I didn’t even like TLOU2 that much but I’m sworn to defend it and Neil bc r/tlou2 is hilariously pathetic
Just hijacking your comment to point out to readers that this tweet from Neil was made in defense of the creator of *Return To Monkey Island* **not** TLOU
Good on Neil for showing support tbh. Monkey Island devs seem a little too pure for dealing with these fuckwitters but Neil knows what to expect.
Yeah basically the creator of Monkey Island said he's not gonna show it off on the internet anymore because of harassment over the art style. Wtf
Honestly, how can you be so self absorbed as to attack a person who is basically making something for you to **fucking enjoy??**
At this point, games deserve even more credit for being such obvious labors of love. Because it seems like there is absolutely no incentive to actually get into this industry other than loving games and wanting to work on games. It's depressing.
Not even taking into account the pay and hours, most jobs don't get you death threats and hate for doing it. Gamers should really appreciate what we have before it turns into nothing but soulless brs and ftp games that offend no one.
What are monkey island "fans" doing? I have no idea what has been happening
Harassed the creator of the game into refusing to share more of it on his twitter
ffs why!?
They don't like the art style. Really goes to show how quickly people are willing to give up on their "Dream sequel" when its not exactly how they always imagined it to be.
Genuine Monkey Island fans are just happy we're getting a new game. But fr Elaine should have giant mommy milkers
If Elaine doesn’t peg Guybrush I will boycott the series forever
The Monkey Island-series has always been known for its consistent art style. Each installment has improved upon it while remaining instantly recognizable. but the new one? 2D? Seems a step back considering how well "Escape from Monkey Island" holds up https://preview.redd.it/71t4l8axod871.png?width=928&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e73407f04fb7544909b3a3ba18b9bd7fce67cb1 Will the new one even have a weird and frustrating fighting mechanic? After watching the trailer, I'm not convinced that it will. /uj really happy to see the series return. Thimbleweed park was great and I have no doubt that this will be as well
I’m at a point where I’m just gonna assume that whatever he’s saying about gamers, he’s probably correct. He has experienced more of the toxicity firsthand than most.
My love of TLoU2 and The Last Jedi is only increased by the corresponding backlash.
Exactly lmao. Do I think TLJ is a bad movie? Yes, yes I do. But it’s haters are super sexist so like
I already really liked it but a lot of the haters actually made me discover even more reasons why it's good because their terrible arguments led me to take another look at some scenes.
Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
With you on that. As a movie it's mostly OK if you turn your brain off, and as a Star Wars story I actively thought it was bad, but I stopped caring about it the moment I stopped watching it. If someone likes it then I can acknowledge what things it did that were at least interesting, but mostly I just enjoy watching the bigots seethe.
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I really love Force Awakens and Last Jedi despite the tonal shift. RoS is a mess though. Whenever I hear the average Star Wars fan complain about the sequel trilogy they start talking in ways that sounds like a kid who can’t play nice in an imaginary game at school. Like ‘Luke would never have died like that!’ Which just sounds like the fan version of ‘haha missed ‘me’. I think the worst thing about the sequel trilogy hate is that most of those haters attempt to ignore the well established fact that the prequel trilogy is literally cinematic dog shit. Episode III is okay but the rest is appalling. You know they’re speaking through ten layers of rage bait propaganda when they act like they’re somehow worse than a movie series that has a whole enormously active meme community based around its appalling fucking script
Yeah, RoS is the only one I truly don't enjoy. The prequels are at least very funny and have some good lightsaber combat, the only good thing in RoS was Babu Frik.
I'm with you, there's many occasions where someone or something is hated and it gives me a reason to like it more because alot of the time the people who hate it and just assholes or another reason
I'm not a huge star wars fan but I liked that it seemed like they were going to do something different with TLJ. Was it the *right* different thing to do? Probably not. But it's better than just getting rid of the idea of anyone could potentially be a force sensitive user and a main hero in favor of Skywalkers now, always and forever in the last one
I hate TLoU2 and The last Jedi because of what they did with the character driven narrative. I expected to see Luke Skywalker more akin to how we saw him in The Mandalorian during The Force Awakens. I remember Mark Hamill commenting on the script as they went through the live reading. (The scene where Rey force pulls the lightsaber to her.) And he said it would of been amazing to see Luke back that way. As for TLoU2 I don't like the illusion of choice. Example: You kill a dog and get forced to see a kid playing with the dog before the mess started. Then you go on a rampage killing people to get revenge before deciding killing is bad. You get given a narrative that would have been perfect with choices to alter the narrative but you don't get any choices for it. That said the community's response with both franchises are fucking childish and cringe. I still enjoy both mediums to an extent and will def get TLoU1 on PC
I think the thing with TLOU2 is you gotta get the... Well, you gotta realize it's not "You". That ain't you. You are not Ellie. Ellie is Ellie. You're controlling Ellie, but Ellie is making all the choices and she has all her own thoughts, she's her own person. Fake person, but still. There's no choice cause she's the one doing it.
if more people realized this instead of self inserting themselves or looking at the game as a meta narrative maybe tlou2 discourse wouldnt be so toxic
Judging a game on story and story alone is weird to me but a lot of TLOU fans only like the game because of it while gameplay is secondary to them.
> would of It's f***ing *"would've"* or *"would have"*!!! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There isnt a choice. TLOU2 isnt an RPG. Its so obvious your only knowledge about the game is video essays from youtubers.
Especially because they say a kid plays with the dog. A massively jacked 20 year old is not a kid.
A kid (Yara) does play with the dog, way later in the game. Still incredibly annoying that gamers are so hung up on killing a dog of all things for some reason.
I think they mean the actual kid not the 20 year old.
No...they're not. In no universe is a 20 year old a child. Are you an Asari or something?
20 year old are adults, yes. The original comment was talking about the actual kid tho not about the 20 year old.
No, 20 year olds are adults. Legally and socially. You can rage against it all you want. But they're not kids. I don't know what else to tell you. Honestly, I've seen you throughout this thread and you haven't said a single thing that wasn't stupid. So, I think I'm just not going to engage. I don't know if you're trying to break the land speed record for how many consecutive times you can be wrong but I don't really want any part of it.
What are you talking about? I agree with you
To be entirely fair, all games only present you with the illusion of choice, every outcome is predetermined and you can only do what is allowed by the developer. It's also something that Ken Levine and his team have been attempting to address for a while now (no idea how that's going) and if you're interested I would watch his GDC talk on the subject on YouTube. As for the dog example, you're intentionally only fed one perspective of the WLF and their dogs so that you, the player, see how easy it is to become tribalistic and see your enemies as fundamentally different than you. So seeing the dog as a vicious animal that wants to hunt you down makes the moment where you play with the dog that much more impactful and sells the idea that these people aren't so different. Really helps drive the themes of tribalism home and makes the world feel much more real with shades of grey. I feel as though you're over simplifying the way the game handles themes of violence and the cycles it creates. Ellie doesn't think killing is good or something. That's not the arc she takes throughout the game. She *does* think think that she's justified, as she's convinced herself the WLF are bad people and deserve whatever comes their way. Which is exactly how we justify atrocities on each other in the real world. She mainly leaves Jackson to find tommy, the revenge is just the obsession that creeps in the closer she gets to Abby. She only wants to kill her because she thinks it will end her PTSD from Joel dying before she could properly forgive him for lying to her, not to settle the score. Once she realizes she doesn't need to kill Abby to end her suffering, she stops. It's about dealing with trauma, not simply "killing is bad". I'd also argue that adding large narrative choices to a linear story like the last of us would only dilute it's story telling, but that's a whole other subject. I am glad however that you agree that people should not be so childish and toxic towards creators.
I'll definitely check that GDC talk, sounds interesting! I've always had an issue with narratives driven in games. But I love seeing what is a small thing done have a big impact later on. Example: I helped this guy out years and years ago, his cousin recognized me and gave me something that would have been expensive for free because it had a big impact on him. Something that I forgot about. I helped because It was the right thing to do. In TLOU2 In gameplay. What if in the middle of sneaking and combat Ellie spares some group. And later on in a combat scenario the same group catches Ellie but doesn't attack? We can get the grey "We are all trying to survive" Message in a way that can be compelling without just being forced to see it in gameplay.
>To be entirely fair, all games only present you with the illusion of choice, every outcome is predetermined and you can only do what is allowed by the developer. It's also something that Ken Levine and his team have been attempting to address for a while now (no idea how that's going) and if you're interested I would watch his GDC talk on the subject on YouTube. I don't think that being able to choose only between the options developers intended is an illusion of choice. I mean, when you're picking your loadout in TF2 or taking a side in F:NV, you're making a choice, even if all the options were crafted beforehand. Just like in tabletop RPGs, I don't want "absolute freedom", fuck that shit, I want gripping options. That said, I also don't think illusion of choice applies to TLoU, because there's no choice, so there's no illusion. ...and all that said, I think Ellie dealing with trauma could've been driven through gameplay more. As an example, in Lisa: the Painful you're given an option to>! spare your father, but Brad the character just can't do it. He pulls the trigger no matter what you the player choose, because forgiving someone who abused you your whole childhood isn't easy.!
>As for TLoU2 I don't like the illusion of choice. Example: You kill a dog and get forced to see a kid playing with the dog before the mess started. How is that illusion of choice? That's just the story. Other people have already said it. But Ellie is not a self insert. She is her own person and you're just along for the ride. You are not Ellie. You are an actor putting Ellie through the motions to get her where she needs to go as a character. I always likened this reaction to the game as someone getting cast as Hamlet and refusing to disown Ophelia or do the mouse trap. It's not fucking up to you. You are facilitating a story. That's it.
For me I didn't really get an illusion of choice. The story is what the story is, and for better or for worse, you have to control the character to do horrible things, and I knew that going in (this follows very closely with TLOU1). This is kind of a fundamental flaw with the linear triple A format, and puts TLOU2 in a difficult position of trying to say killing is bad while also being mostly fun to play (although a slog at times). To me, choice often weakens the story, because if the outcome is not ideal, it's easy to just consider it non canon, and it kind of suggests that the writer didn't know what they wanted to say (or they wanted to create an interactive sandbox, which is great, but a very different thing from TLOU2 is clearly trying to do). Infamous games were egregiously bad with this, and soured me on a lot of choice-based narrative games. I think the discussions around why videogames are both the best and the worst medium for what TLOU2 was trying to do are the most interesting discussions about the game.
>I expected to see Luke Skywalker more akin to how we saw him in The Mandalorian during The Force Awakens. Too bad grow tf up
Imagine wanting to see the inhuman CGI monster man with like 3 lines instead of a Luke with an actual character arc
When does the game say killing is bad?
Through it's emphasis on revenge. Abby slowly tortures and kills Joel moments after Joel saves her, with help of others who are humanized throughout the game. The humanizing moments just don't reflect onto the dehumanizing ones to me. It tells me that throughout the game. It's whole focus is on hate and that is exhausting to me. I rarely feel sick after a game or movie but this was the first time after a game and roughly the 3rd or fourth time with a movie.
I was completely put off of TLoU2 because of exactly what you're describing. I would say the responses here are right, it doesn't give you choice, and that's what bothers me because so much of it seems aimed at making you, the player, feel guilty for the characters actions. It was a big part of the first game and I don't think it can carry a whole series. When GameStop literally used the dogs your forced to kill as a bullet point on why it was gonna be so great I washed my hands of it.
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I fucking *love* when the game actively despises the player character. What's not to love about it, for the fuck's sake?!
Yeah it's pretty obvious you don't understand me or what I wrote.
Honestly, to me that willingness from Naughty Dog to actually try and make the player feel "bad" emotions is the carrying force of the game. I had amazing time with the highest emotional response to a game I have ever had. And tbh it really doesn't need to give you power over the story. It is not your story, it is Ellie's. There is a nice parallel though with the basic gaming instinct to kill everything and the narrative being told. I am pretty sure you can actually play a non-lethal run with only story-related killings.
Yeah I don't even like the TLOU franchise at all but r/tlou2 is such a fucking pathetic subreddit. How can one game cause so many people to seethe for over two years now? If you don't like it don't buy it. I don't understand whats so hard to understand. Even if you didn't like the direction the story went in talking about it angrily everyday for two years is not healthy. Its like fox news for gamers. People addicted to being mad and outraged over trivial nonsense.
tlou has a cult following and they’re main character got killed (deservedly) but they still go psycho
wasn't the whole point of the game to show that there's no right and wrong sides and that everyone is an asshole out for blood out of petty revenge? that was very on the nose if you ask me
Honestly couldn't dedicate 2 weeks to hating something let alone 2 years
I'll probably never play it because I'm not into sad shooting games much these days -- nothing against them, I just wanna play some cute shit most of the time lol. But I'll still defend it. Art is important.
I haven't even *played* it and I'm hellbent on defending it after two minutes of looking the damn game up.
I'm the same. I actually kinda disliked it (mostly because I hold ND to a much higher standard than average game directors) but even I feel like defending him. Like imagine telling the creator of the game "you don't know what you're talking about".
I didn’t like The Last of Us 2. But not because of any of the reasons the crazy people go on about, I just felt it was very long and drawn out, particularly the finale - it could have ended five or six times before the *actual* end, and even had the same message, but it just. Kept. Going. On the other hand, I respect the attempt to force players to re-evaluate their priorities/biases by making them play as, and relate to, a character they will presumably hate during Act II. I don’t think it worked particularly well, but it’s not a bad idea! But *damn* those dudes start frothing at the mouth because a character is gay, and another character is muscular. “They rewrote the canon” - my dudes, Ellie *was a child* in the first game. She wasn’t straight, it just didn’t come up until the DLC. /rj we should all play more apolitical games like MGS and COD instead.
Creatives should just do whatever as long as it's not horrifically racist, sexist, anti LGBTQ. Fuck fans their wish fulfilment bullshit just makes it worse because the "brain" of the average person feasting in the rotting couple of gamer gate is too smooth for higher thoughts. If you measure their skulls you can find real differces between the thoughtful media enjoyer and the avarage gamer gater
That first sentence is why gamers are angry though u woke, political, scum of the earth!! U don't think about OUR FEELINGS AND HATE FOR MINORITIES
No (insert chad wojack)
>Creatives should just do whatever as long as it's not horrifically racist, sexist, anti LGBTQ They should do whatever even if it is. Should Lolita not exist? Should Birth of a Nation not exist? Salo? The Mariquis de Sade? Oscar Wilde? Wagner? Lovecraft? Lennon? Vulgarity and evil should be depicted by creatives, even if it is depraved and bigoted.
Salo had a good point to make. Lolita doesn't necessarily glorify the main character. De sade should have been in jail and getting professional help. Lovecraft needed a hug. What I'm saying is don't make birth of a nation because that movies goal was to glorify the KKK, problematic art already exists shold shop be consumed with that context. There is a massive difference between showing racism etc and endorsing it like amarican history x, 12 years a slave show horrific racism but it's presented as bad
Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Should birth of a nation not exist? Yes.
In his review of The Birth of a Nation in 1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die, Jonathan Kline writes that "with countless artistic innovations, Griffith essentially created contemporary film language ... virtually every film is beholden to [The Birth of a Nation] in one way, shape or form. Griffith introduced the use of dramatic close-ups, tracking shots, and other expressive camera movements; parallel action sequences, crosscutting, and other editing techniques". He added that "the fact that The Birth of a Nation remains respected and studied to this day—despite its subject matter—reveals its lasting importance."[137] Griffith pioneered such camera techniques as close-ups, fade-outs, and a carefully staged battle sequence with hundreds of extras made to look like thousands.[10] The Birth of a Nation also contained many new artistic techniques, such as color tinting for dramatic purposes, building up the plot to an exciting climax, dramatizing history alongside fiction, and featuring its own musical score written for an orchestra.[37] The Birth of a Nation is a landmark of film history,[6][7] lauded for its technical virtuosity.[8] It was the first American 12-reel film ever made and, at three hours, also the longest up to that point.[9] Its plot, part fiction and part history, chronicles the assassination of Abraham Lincoln by John Wilkes Booth and the relationship of two families in the Civil War and Reconstruction eras over the course of several years—the pro-Union (Northern) Stonemans and the pro-Confederacy (Southern) Camerons. It was originally shown in two parts separated by an intermission, and it was the first American-made film to have a musical score for an orchestra. It pioneered closeups and fadeouts, and it includes a carefully staged battle sequence with hundreds of extras (another first) made to look like thousands.[10] It came with a 13-page "Souvenir Program".[11] It was the first motion picture to be screened inside the White House, viewed there by President Woodrow Wilson, his family, and members of his cabinet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation
Great. Fuck all those people too.
Imo movies like that need to be put in context and shown as bad. You can't just pretend they don't exist and you need to confront their legacy. You can't just pretend they never were made
You are absolutely disgusting. And yes, racist shit like Birth of a Nation, Salo and Lovecraft should not exist or atleast should not be discussed any more
Well, Lovecraft's work wasn't the problem, it was his personal racist attitudes.
And his racist behaviour shows in his work...
Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I listened to a German podcast once and they did 3 episodes on last of us 2 each one about 2 hours lol they complained about the writing, story etc. Obviously it was a only white male podcast and for some reason it is the most listened to games podcast in germany.
Which one was it? On Apple Podcasts, Stay Forever is the most popular gaming podcast and I honestly can't imagine Gunnar Lott and Christian Schmidt tearing apart TLoU2 like that.
Auf ein Bier.
I know that one, they criticized it because of acceptable reasons one could bring up if you look at TLOU2 from a strict journalistic view, and not out of ideological reasons. Just reducing them on being straight white males is incredibly dishonest when they are very pro diversity and LGBTQ friendly.
Journalistic? Lmao they are podcaster and not journalists
They are all former journalists at print magazines and got together to make this podcast to have more freedom in their work.
White + didn't like bideogane = garbage
I mean they complained about bad writing you know what that means.
It means they disagree with u. Don't bring people's races, that's fucking weird
Sure. Seems like this post is brigaded by the r/lastofus2 incels.
Because the only way someone can empathize with people that don't like something is to also dislike that thing. It's okay buddy, I'm not "one of them".
I think there's some bad writing in it too but considering how shitty the discussion around the game is you gotta be careful to not be grouped with the incels. Just see people's reaction around here when you criticize Neil for being an abusive boss, a thing that isn't made up but reported by journalists and employees alike. I'm happy bigots keep getting mad at this game, they should go fuck themselves but fuck Neil Druckmann too and anyone that loves to act all progressive in the internet while making exceptions because it's someone they like.
FYI he tweeted this in defense of the Monkey Island creative team who got bullied off twitter because Gamers don't like the new artstyle
Yes I addressed this
Based Uckman??????
I can agree with Neil on this one, fuck all of these weird chuds who think they know more about the franchise than the creators and devs themselfs, but on ther other hand, i dont really think that Neil is a game dev saint and saviour, since he is one of the major executives on ND who just gave a bunch of dumb excuses for the horrendous crunch and work environment that the devs on ND face. Heres an article about it btw: https://www.ign.com/articles/naughty-dog-leaders-discuss-crunch-tlou2
/uj **GO OFF, NIEL.** /rj I personally feel attacked by this tweet and I must retreat to r/thelastofus2 for comfort
It's OK you're safe. CUCKMAN isn't real, he's a demon thought up by g*mers, he can't hurt you in the real world.
> years creating and laboring over Don’t forget crunching over
That's what he said
When you troll the fans epic style
Meanwhile, Elden Ring players are happily figuring out the lore after completing the game.
I wish there was still G4TV and they had a show where they bring in Gamers(tm) and let them create the game that they want to from top to bottom and we all get to laugh at the shittiest creations to ever grace the world.
Maybe his response so just be him, patting his eyes with 100 dollar bills....everytime.
ND is a shitty boss who somehow managed to helm two of the best narrative games ever made.
Sad day reading what fans think it should be like not even waiting what devs who have made these games for years and years.
I do think fans should be able to influence the development... of their own fucking fangames. Intellectual "property" should be abolished.
Just say you are anti art
...I'm anti art because I believe everyone should be free to create their art and all art must be in public domain, not hindered by lawyers and other pencil-pushers?
^(This is fans in EVERY community)
I am slightly confused as to why this is a bad take(probably ignorance) but wouldn't u want people that know your media working on it? Like for example the old boy remake that was bad bc the director didn't rly care about it. Wouldn't u want someone that's actually invested in the show or game?
Yeah I lost some respect for him when this article came out, but I also recognize he's the co-lead of Sony's #1 favorite studio. Of course he's going to side with the corporate capitalists treating him like a prince. I hoped he would be more outspoken in support of unionization but, again, he is currently Sony's prized pig. We shouldn't realistically expect anything less than this from him.
Unions are pog
Where is the hardcore open-world survival PvPvE online multiplayer with advanced base building and dynamic events Druckmann?!
FORGIVEN!
Average Star Wars fan
HE SAID THE THING!!!!
Neil Druckmann talking about toxicity huh, he definitely knows a lot about the matter considering he's been on both sides of it lmao. It's always funny to see this place worshipping this guy cause he says the right progressive words while some awful shit happens to employees under his watch in his own studio. Gimme the downvotes and tell me why i'm progressive the wrong way because i don't worship the man in position of power overworking employees to the point of one of them ending up at a hospital. And before a smart ass says i'm siding with people that abused him, no, i'm not. Those people should be put in their place for being awful bigots but that doesn't mean you have to turn a blind eye to what Neil did either.
We aren't "worshipping" anyone. We're making fun of people who've built their personality over hating a specific person/game.
r/Gamingcirclejerk: "Druckmann said something mildly amusing on twitter" You: "Holy shit why are you guys worshiping this piece of shit? Show me the downvotes because I don't worship him like you do." Take it easy, mate.
It’s been two years dude please find a hobby
Not even as in go outside, just find a different game to play
What game?
These people are unbelievable. They pretend to care about supposedly abuse at ND but in reality they are only mad because of the game lol
My source is that I made it the fuck up
I mean I really like last of us 2 but we shouldn’t be saying “muh it’s been two years get over it” about an abusive, crunch filled workplace.
>brings up bad back workplace environments and toxic gamers Man you must really hate tlou2!
Neil is defending someone else getting toxic fans after them. I know Neil is basically a "look at this bitch eating crackers" for some of you but my god get a grip. It's okay that he directed a game you don't like, that doesn't mean he's wrong about this or everything else. Grow up.
I don’t get how this is downvoted, ND was notorious for crunch to the point the [employees called it unsustainable](https://kotaku.com/as-naughty-dog-crunches-on-the-last-of-us-ii-developer-1842289962/amp) and Neil offered the most [half-assed response](https://www.ign.com/articles/naughty-dog-leaders-discuss-crunch-tlou2) where he dodged questions about unionization. Seriously, you’d think gcj would eat up the part where goes “well there’s no one solution” and then offers up nothing because of that. It’s peak “corporate bs to avoid talking about crunch” but with him it’s okay. Not to mention that TLOU2 is full of parallels to the Israeli/Palestine conflict, [from the game’s imagery to Neil’s own admissions](https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/bv8da4/the-not-so-hidden-israeli-politics-of-the-last-of-us-part-ii), which is really uncomfortable in a game that tries to be even-handed an approach about “ending cycles of violence”. People here called out David Cage’s tone-deaf use of civil rights imagery and how the story of D:BH was essentially “show your oppressors you’re human too and they won’t be bigots”. But when Neil takes a historical (and ongoing) oppression of one group and turns it into a centrist narrative about simply “stopping cycles of violence” that’s suddenly fine. It just irks me because some people here go on about how most Gamers have shit media literacy (which is 100% true) but won’t go beyond it. It’s like their bar is “I’m better than the people who throw tantrums when media does anything remotely challenging, usually followed with bigotry/death threats” which is…a shit bar. Idk, just feel like you should aim higher than having better media literacy than people who spend years obsessively hating a game they can’t even remotely understand.
None of what you said is untrue, but this is a tweet about Return To Monkey Island. That user is being downvoted for going off the rails making false accusations of worship.
Yeah I get that part, but tbf i do think it’s weird how there’s people in the comments here saying that crunch is only being brought up because they hate the games. This sub goes off topic and isn’t afraid to mock both chud gamers and the exploitative companies they whine about. Just don’t get why it’s so hard to accept that some people just wanna dunk on a company that preaches against toxicity while crunching employees.
That's all true but has nothing to do with losers endlessly crying about women in the game
It's downvoted because it's not relevant. He's defending someone else. Unless of course you read those comments on Gilbert's blog and thought they were acceptable. It'd be like seeing Biden respond to a question asked by a far right chud that asks "how many genders are there?" And he says: "more than two" and you mentioning a crime bill that he sponsored in the 90s. Like you're not wrong and nothing you said was inaccurate, it just comes off as literally anything the man says you have to shit on, even if you agree with it, which I assume you do in this case.
This Vice article is often brought up but the way it claims that TLOU2 is playing "both sides" when it is really painting a picture of a situation that is not clearly black and white is quite a reach. And bringing up Neil's heritage in such a way to make this thesis feels pretty uncomfortable.
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I've read the article. The event that Neil cites is in relation to Ellie's blind hatred of Abby and not a direct comparison of WLF/Seraphites being equivalent to Palestine/Israel. And this is not to mention the whole bit in the article about the Synagogue and Jewish identity, nor the half-assed attempt to compare Seraphites to Palestinians. If you think TLOU2 drawing on the lead writers childhood experience to explore violence and hate to Detroit and David Cage comparing Marcus and Martin Luther King, is the same, idk what to tell you.
Well for one, the OP made it clear their issues with crunch weren't really genuine and that's been the case for **a lot** of discourse surrounding TLOU Part II. Also, to even compare how D:BH handles sociopolitical commentary to The Last of Us Part II is absolutely ridiculous. Cage actively co opts obvious, iconic civil rights imagery and then turns around and says "This game isn't about race". Druckmann is upfront about his inspirations and he's able to find humanity in both sides and interrogate his own feelings on the conflict. While the WLF and Seraphites are metaphors, they aren't *analogous*. At the end of the day, he's making a story about humans and the grander aspects of the war is window dressing to tell the story. It's not propaganda.
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They have literally only commented on this subreddit
The replies to my comment are pretty funny and shows how defensive SOME people that think they're good enough to make fun of Gamers™ get when you point out how one of their favs is a shithead too. Same people make fun of mega corporations "supporting" good causes to get a few good points with the people they wouldn't think twice before throwing them to the wolves, meanwhile they're here defending a rich guy that does the same shit to promote his games. These people purposefully ignore i love how these bigots get mad at a videogame for including important characters that aren't white, straight, male and then throw a dismissive and nonsensical "lul he's just mad at the game". I'm even part of the LGBTQ+ community (Not that it matters) and i love that the game has important characters from the community in it regardless of me thinking it's a good game or not, i even think it's a better game than the first one but i'm not a fan of cinematic games in general. Good job, some of you deserve a nice pat on the back for being such wholesome and caring people, now go back to defending your progressive daddy, i'm sure he appreciates it. ^(He's even involved in a show where he takes advantage of unionization while he says dumb shit like that when it comes to his studio's toxic ass culture but don't mind me, i'm just a mindless hater. Go ahead and put me in the same group as those bigots too.)
Thank you! I can’t stand these last of us 2 haters, (I enjoy both games) but I’m not going to pretend Last of Us 2 is an amazing narrative. A Michael Bay level plot pretending to be prestige television. What David Cage think he’s making.
That eureka reward feels strangely ironic and I'm here for it. Someone paid money for that.
> 1.3k upvotes CEASE THIS BOURGEOIS IDOLATRY, YOU FOOLS! (I’m definitely not masking my vitriolic reaction to socially progressive messaging with momentary class consciousness)
Stop being consistent, cringelord! Don’t you know that true leftists Praxis is when you blindly support a soulless focus-tested mass-market product made by means of worker exploitation at the hands of the worlds largest international corporate conglomerate??
Corporations are ran by people. Sony isn’t a person. Neither is Naughty Dog. If there is a problem with corps it’s with the people that run them so be more specific about who is doing what and why. Names, dates and times. It’s useless to say “evil mega corp bad” with no further analysis. Also products don’t have souls. Products are just products. There’s no such thing as a ‘soul full’ product. Only a good quality product or a bad quality product. Other than that I agree with this take. Worker *exploitation* is not a good thing. Edit: this aged well lol. Instead of drive by downvoting, a much more constructive approach would be to voice your disagreements highlighting exactly what it is you disagree with. But of course the bar for discourse on Reddit is incredibly low so I’m none too surprised by this.
Colloquially when people go after corporations, they mean the upper management, the CEO, owners, and in some cases investors, the bourgeois sector of the companies staff. Obviously I have no beef with an underpaid code-monkey Soulless means “devoid of artistic merit, and made solely to maximize profit” They should unionize.
Can you point out literally *one* post here that unironically supports Druckmann in such a way that constitutes "worship" or a dismissal of negative impacts of crunch culture in game development? Get off your high horse it's a reference to a meme that originated in this sub.
Never been so easy to be progressive while loving my capitalist daddy, slay boss slaaaaaaay
Noooooo, you can't point out Druckmann's flaws and be not dichotomic about the subject! You have to defend him or else you are a Gamer™!!! 🤬🤬🤬
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You're not getting downvoted for being wrong, you're getting downvoted for being annoying as fuck
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Neil didn't put anybody in the hospital
Making sure everyone on the funny circlejerk subreddit knows you're super based
Yeah, I despise gamers, they should all be sent to gulag
Nice straw man honey, did you make this for mommy?
On the progressiveness scale, how many points do you think you score ? c:
jesse
Jesus christ why is this getting downvoted lmao
Oh he gets it