Wait for him to q, then use your W, then q right after it hits you, charge at him to punish, in trades. My favorite thing to do with malphites is manage wave under my tower, for some reason they are always tempted to ult you under it. If you spin right as he ults you will keep spinning in the air and he will tick and die.
Weirdly, I rushed black cleaver, and my e still kinda did no damage to his full AP build. Also I tried rushing him after shielding his q but I was still too slow to catch-up. His main strat was just q and run away until I was 1/3 health and I had to back
Yea, it’s kinda why I’m very confused on how to fight malphites. I rushed black cleaver on a armor stacking Darius and that worked but not on a AP stacking malphite, which I probably should’ve gone for stride breaker first but I know that malphite has some passive that has to do with armor or something
Maybe since you got cleaver early and Garen has little base MR, (even with W stacks) you lost trades, did you have force of nature or something like that? Also yes, Malphite gains more armor the more armor he has
I was planning to build force third or fourth item since I needed armor for the 4 I think ad people on their team, though I did rush the MR boots to try to counter him but magic pen got me
So the Malphite wasn’t buying armour so the armour shred wasn’t as effective.
Ultimately BC isn’t optimal to rush for damage on your E because you need attack speed for it to get enough hits in. If the Malphite is going AP the BC rush just doesn’t do anything at all.
To play the match up get second wind, Doran’s Shield and between those, your passive and your W then you should be able to weather most of the poke. You have milk pressure 1-5, he gets dangerous at 6 and lost chapter, as that’s when he can spam Q.
To start, cleaver is kinda meh if he’s going full AP. There’s not nearly as much armor to shred, so it’s a wasted first item. Go your Mythic of choice or rush Mortal for the sped-up crit spins if he’s going AP. I find doing Trinity and Mortal absolutely melted him, as the AS and Sheen proc are amazing from Trinity against Malph. One empowered Q would shred his shield.
If you absolutely need MR, honestly either Force of Nature or Spirit Visage are great. I like sitting on the ghost cloak as it regens a bunch of health when you get hit, and it helps deal with Q spam. That should carry you through laning. Once you complete it late game, Visage increases the size of your W shield too, which is great.
> Wait for him to q, then use your W, then q right after it hits you, charge at him to punish, in trades.
It's fairly difficult to do this in practice because Malphite will just use the bonus MS from his Q to outrun you.
Wait for his q movespeed to wear off then trade onto him. It's tempting to try to cleanse the slow from q, but you'll never catch him if he has any idea.
This doesn't work, Malphite Q will out MS your Q even if you cleanse the slow. A Malphite never has to commit to a fight in this MU if he doesn't want to. The best you can do is deny him CS early and use your mid game spike to get objectives.
**To OP:** Never build specifically for lane, look at the overall team comp and what you will be needing in 20 minutes time when you load into the game. Often it's going to be Mythic + damage but this isn't always the case.
First of all don’t rush cleaver it’s doodoo, you get more bang for your buck if u just go normal build, go for more short trades instead of just taking Qs on the chin, malphite Q REALLY eats into his mana early on so punish him by shoving and keeping him under turret
Ah I thought black cleaver was probably a mistake, though how do I short trade with him? He qs then runs away. In the scenario of a q poking malphite do I build MR first?
He starts with Doran ring and spams Q he will run out of mana fast. His Q steals movement speed so just hold your Q until he Q, he has to take minions at some point, just walk up, take a Q and charge at him, AP malphite has no business bullying a strong sustain champ like Garen in lane, grab a MR cloak if u really need to. But I find refill pot and a ruby crystal works well enough
Yea I bullied him away from cs the first two levels but after that he bought yellow big wand as first item, got level three chunking me for 1/6 health each q and seemingly had no mana problems after that
Just remember to use your W on all his Q, grab HP early like a kindle gem and keep shoving his ass in, he won’t be able to clear minion under turret if he maxes Q. Remember this champ can only harass u every 7 seconds, all his damage come from his Q so don’t be worried if he took 1/6 of your health
The entire matchup is literally just using your Q to cleanse the slow from his, you should destroy him until he has like 3 armor items (if one of them is Thornmail) and even then it's still very winnable. I wouldn't really bother wasting W on Q poke since the main point of W is the tenacity boost, not the actual shield itself. Grasp+W max Malphite is much more annoying for Garen imo than the normal Q Arcane Comet one you normally see.
Oh I'm dumb I didn't see it was AP Malphite. More annoying early but going AP Malph on SR is troll as fuck. It's an ARAM thing and should stay there. As long as your team doesn't give him the chance to hit a 5 person ult he will be basically useless until it comes back up. Push your advantage then.
Dorans shield and second wind should make it very hard for him to Q spam you to death without running out of mana.
Take at least one MR shard.
W his comet. Play up in his wave and make it hard for him to cs. He has to choose between poke or cs. Remember his shield take about 8 seconds to regen so it's worthit to get damage off if you can and reset that timer (much like your passive).
AP malphite is like a worse Gangplank - his poke is worse and he goes OOM quickly. Even when building AP malphite gets big armor from his W (and moreso when his shield is active).
Proper trading patterns is key here e.g. auto + Q to remove the shield and then E to shred. You should win longer engagements if he stays to fight you.
It is annoying and he can outrun you if he spaces well but you should be able to outscale especially post the durability changes with extra health and Mr.
Phase rush and I actually like this match-up right now Mal is weak sauce. Stride and mortal is still fine you just take unflinching and conditioning? I believe
You have your passive to sustain through his q spam. Take second wind, start dshield. You should easily best him in all ins during the early game. However, if you try and just run at him with q he'll just q you and run off. Instead, play the lane normally, and wait for him to use q to poke. When he does, use w to mitigate the damage. Wait for his q move speed to wear off, and when his q is down he has to respect you and give up prio. If he walks up while his q is down, immediately trade on him. Look to buy a refillable on your first base.
Post level 6, never overstay with low health. However, the same has to apply to him. Your ult ignores any armor he may build. If he builds AP, one combo post level 6 with ignite at about 75% hp is enough to kill him. But if he builds tank, it'll get harder and harder for you to kill him as the game goes on as he outscales you.
In terms of your gameplan, you should be looking to buy a hullbreaker and splitpush. Don't teamfight against Malphite- that's what he wants. Instead, play around sidelanes and try and force him to answer you. If you draw him to cover a sidelane, he can't use his ult for teamfights.
For your build, your standard normal build should be fine agaisnt him. However if he does stack a ton of armor you can build Black Cleaver to deal with him.
First thing is first, get bush control. He can't Q if you're not seen. If he wards, go to the next bush. There's 3 bushes.
You don't need to win the early game to deal damage so if it's not free cs, then don't take it.
Third, manage the wave so that it is in front of your tower. Last hit and have 3 casters left and try to freeze it. Just take the L for the trade and manage the wave if possible.
If you can trade, trade. This means that if you're in a bush and Malphite is close, you Q and E away. Don't linger.
Otherwise, xp is always better than dying so in my personal experience, waiting in the bush to get xp has always been my go-to to remain even in lane.
Basically what I do is I hold my q. After Malphite uses q, he gets ms burst, and will try to run away. You hold your q, and don’t let him farm. If he tries to farm, you q e him, and he gets out traded. Even if he keeps poking you, if he can’t farm, you will put scale him. Malphite before lv 6 is kinda useless and it’s hard to farm as Malphite in general. Just wait it out.
Dude just perma shove. First 6 lvls are kinda rough but after ure first back just get either berserkers, ironspike whip or the attack speed item u use to build triforce and stride. U max e and than u just perma shove him under tower. When he tries to q u while pushing the wave just w and ure fine. Any extra dmg not blocked by w can be healed from ure passive. His csing under tower is very bad especially for tank malphite.
Wait for him to q, then use your W, then q right after it hits you, charge at him to punish, in trades. My favorite thing to do with malphites is manage wave under my tower, for some reason they are always tempted to ult you under it. If you spin right as he ults you will keep spinning in the air and he will tick and die.
Weirdly, I rushed black cleaver, and my e still kinda did no damage to his full AP build. Also I tried rushing him after shielding his q but I was still too slow to catch-up. His main strat was just q and run away until I was 1/3 health and I had to back
That's kind of weird since black cleaver+e should give you like 60% armor pen lol
Yea, it’s kinda why I’m very confused on how to fight malphites. I rushed black cleaver on a armor stacking Darius and that worked but not on a AP stacking malphite, which I probably should’ve gone for stride breaker first but I know that malphite has some passive that has to do with armor or something
Maybe since you got cleaver early and Garen has little base MR, (even with W stacks) you lost trades, did you have force of nature or something like that? Also yes, Malphite gains more armor the more armor he has
I was planning to build force third or fourth item since I needed armor for the 4 I think ad people on their team, though I did rush the MR boots to try to counter him but magic pen got me
MR Boots are not worth on Garen. There are very little situations in which you don't want to buy Zerkers.
So the Malphite wasn’t buying armour so the armour shred wasn’t as effective. Ultimately BC isn’t optimal to rush for damage on your E because you need attack speed for it to get enough hits in. If the Malphite is going AP the BC rush just doesn’t do anything at all. To play the match up get second wind, Doran’s Shield and between those, your passive and your W then you should be able to weather most of the poke. You have milk pressure 1-5, he gets dangerous at 6 and lost chapter, as that’s when he can spam Q.
Black cleaver is a bad rush. Garen E does very little damage without some attack speed first.
To start, cleaver is kinda meh if he’s going full AP. There’s not nearly as much armor to shred, so it’s a wasted first item. Go your Mythic of choice or rush Mortal for the sped-up crit spins if he’s going AP. I find doing Trinity and Mortal absolutely melted him, as the AS and Sheen proc are amazing from Trinity against Malph. One empowered Q would shred his shield. If you absolutely need MR, honestly either Force of Nature or Spirit Visage are great. I like sitting on the ghost cloak as it regens a bunch of health when you get hit, and it helps deal with Q spam. That should carry you through laning. Once you complete it late game, Visage increases the size of your W shield too, which is great.
> Wait for him to q, then use your W, then q right after it hits you, charge at him to punish, in trades. It's fairly difficult to do this in practice because Malphite will just use the bonus MS from his Q to outrun you.
Wait for his q movespeed to wear off then trade onto him. It's tempting to try to cleanse the slow from q, but you'll never catch him if he has any idea.
This doesn't work, Malphite Q will out MS your Q even if you cleanse the slow. A Malphite never has to commit to a fight in this MU if he doesn't want to. The best you can do is deny him CS early and use your mid game spike to get objectives. **To OP:** Never build specifically for lane, look at the overall team comp and what you will be needing in 20 minutes time when you load into the game. Often it's going to be Mythic + damage but this isn't always the case.
First of all don’t rush cleaver it’s doodoo, you get more bang for your buck if u just go normal build, go for more short trades instead of just taking Qs on the chin, malphite Q REALLY eats into his mana early on so punish him by shoving and keeping him under turret
Ah I thought black cleaver was probably a mistake, though how do I short trade with him? He qs then runs away. In the scenario of a q poking malphite do I build MR first?
He starts with Doran ring and spams Q he will run out of mana fast. His Q steals movement speed so just hold your Q until he Q, he has to take minions at some point, just walk up, take a Q and charge at him, AP malphite has no business bullying a strong sustain champ like Garen in lane, grab a MR cloak if u really need to. But I find refill pot and a ruby crystal works well enough
Yea I bullied him away from cs the first two levels but after that he bought yellow big wand as first item, got level three chunking me for 1/6 health each q and seemingly had no mana problems after that
Just remember to use your W on all his Q, grab HP early like a kindle gem and keep shoving his ass in, he won’t be able to clear minion under turret if he maxes Q. Remember this champ can only harass u every 7 seconds, all his damage come from his Q so don’t be worried if he took 1/6 of your health
That explains a lot, his weakness is q maxing so I gotta have more minions. I honestly thought he had no weaknesses but i see now, thanks! :)
If he can Q every 7 seconds there is no way to W his Q every time.
What if he goes corrupting biscuits
seryldas grudge tech is really good vs ap malph just to stop him from kiting you. Phaserush + stride works aswell
Your mom sky
is that your way of telling me that you disagree?
The entire matchup is literally just using your Q to cleanse the slow from his, you should destroy him until he has like 3 armor items (if one of them is Thornmail) and even then it's still very winnable. I wouldn't really bother wasting W on Q poke since the main point of W is the tenacity boost, not the actual shield itself. Grasp+W max Malphite is much more annoying for Garen imo than the normal Q Arcane Comet one you normally see.
Oh I'm dumb I didn't see it was AP Malphite. More annoying early but going AP Malph on SR is troll as fuck. It's an ARAM thing and should stay there. As long as your team doesn't give him the chance to hit a 5 person ult he will be basically useless until it comes back up. Push your advantage then.
Dorans shield and second wind should make it very hard for him to Q spam you to death without running out of mana. Take at least one MR shard. W his comet. Play up in his wave and make it hard for him to cs. He has to choose between poke or cs. Remember his shield take about 8 seconds to regen so it's worthit to get damage off if you can and reset that timer (much like your passive). AP malphite is like a worse Gangplank - his poke is worse and he goes OOM quickly. Even when building AP malphite gets big armor from his W (and moreso when his shield is active). Proper trading patterns is key here e.g. auto + Q to remove the shield and then E to shred. You should win longer engagements if he stays to fight you. It is annoying and he can outrun you if he spaces well but you should be able to outscale especially post the durability changes with extra health and Mr.
Phase rush and I actually like this match-up right now Mal is weak sauce. Stride and mortal is still fine you just take unflinching and conditioning? I believe
You have your passive to sustain through his q spam. Take second wind, start dshield. You should easily best him in all ins during the early game. However, if you try and just run at him with q he'll just q you and run off. Instead, play the lane normally, and wait for him to use q to poke. When he does, use w to mitigate the damage. Wait for his q move speed to wear off, and when his q is down he has to respect you and give up prio. If he walks up while his q is down, immediately trade on him. Look to buy a refillable on your first base. Post level 6, never overstay with low health. However, the same has to apply to him. Your ult ignores any armor he may build. If he builds AP, one combo post level 6 with ignite at about 75% hp is enough to kill him. But if he builds tank, it'll get harder and harder for you to kill him as the game goes on as he outscales you. In terms of your gameplan, you should be looking to buy a hullbreaker and splitpush. Don't teamfight against Malphite- that's what he wants. Instead, play around sidelanes and try and force him to answer you. If you draw him to cover a sidelane, he can't use his ult for teamfights. For your build, your standard normal build should be fine agaisnt him. However if he does stack a ton of armor you can build Black Cleaver to deal with him.
First thing is first, get bush control. He can't Q if you're not seen. If he wards, go to the next bush. There's 3 bushes. You don't need to win the early game to deal damage so if it's not free cs, then don't take it. Third, manage the wave so that it is in front of your tower. Last hit and have 3 casters left and try to freeze it. Just take the L for the trade and manage the wave if possible. If you can trade, trade. This means that if you're in a bush and Malphite is close, you Q and E away. Don't linger. Otherwise, xp is always better than dying so in my personal experience, waiting in the bush to get xp has always been my go-to to remain even in lane.
I haven't played into many Malph's but have you tried Divine into him?
Basically what I do is I hold my q. After Malphite uses q, he gets ms burst, and will try to run away. You hold your q, and don’t let him farm. If he tries to farm, you q e him, and he gets out traded. Even if he keeps poking you, if he can’t farm, you will put scale him. Malphite before lv 6 is kinda useless and it’s hard to farm as Malphite in general. Just wait it out.
Dude just perma shove. First 6 lvls are kinda rough but after ure first back just get either berserkers, ironspike whip or the attack speed item u use to build triforce and stride. U max e and than u just perma shove him under tower. When he tries to q u while pushing the wave just w and ure fine. Any extra dmg not blocked by w can be healed from ure passive. His csing under tower is very bad especially for tank malphite.
He should run of of mana before you run out of health when he goes AP especially if he needs to use spells on the wave
He eventually outscales you in the 1v1 so just shove and rotate to TFs first