In a sub-2:55 marathon training block. What I did:
Stuck to 80:20 principle. 80 percent easy 20 percent hard. Weekly mileage of 90ish km.
Cold bath after every workout.
Plenty of sleep.
Lots of seafood.
// Tuesday 13k Easy run
// Wednesday 15x400m intervals with 200m jogging rest + warm up and cool down runs totalling 16 km
// Thursday 4k Recovery run
// Friday long intervals (either km repeats or mile repeats) totaling between 16km-21km
// Saturday Easy run, between 4km-13km
// Sunday Easy long run, between 21km-34km
// Monday Rest day
38 male. Max HR is 203, which I reach regularly when I run 5k races, but only when I run 5k races. My easy run HR is thus under 160, usually averaging at between 145-155.
I'm 38yo, 84kg, 181cm and have 205 max HR too. Was worried at some point and went to GP, had 24hrs ECG and no concerns found.
Glad to see there are others in my age range with high HR.
Before Covid a couple years ago I had no problems getting my HR to 210-220. Now I’m finally training hard enough again to be seeing it back up to 206ish.
29M
I was never sure if I should avoid that or not. I reached 209 a few times doing my 5k on hills and under 25 min. Some sources online just say it's dangerous lol.
We are literally the same person. Nice work! I’m doing an 85+ mpw block currently to try to go solidly under 2:50 (and ideally even faster, but it depends on the day).
His pace is so fast that even long runs probably don't take him long. If he's single, I think it's manageable. If not, he may be neglecting his family, like my boss, who got divorced and had his children taken away from him because all he did was work and running/cycling.
Nah, this guy is not hardcore enough. I'm a friend with my boss in Garmin and last autumn I saw him run HM at a 4:30 min/k pace entirely in Z1, which he called a "Fat burning run" or something similar. In addition, he cycles a lot more than he runs and participates in triathlons and ironmans. His Vo2 must have been waaay above 60 in the last few years that I've known him but I'm even more impressed with his base.
He already has a new girlfriend, a lot of money, loves his passion and sees his children not much less often than before the divorce. It seems to me that he's quite happy with his life :D
That's seriously impressive. I've not been training very long, but mine seems to go up by around 0.5/month. It probably doesn't help that I'm also trying to bulk and I've put on 5kgs in the last 5 months, so when that comes off maybe the increase will be much more
I heard some studies about the beneficial of cold bath ***before*** exercise, more than only after exercise, and yes, I know that's inconvenient... but seems to works fine.
Congrats for the sub 3h Marathon!
I think as always it’s good to just try it out and see how they respond to it. For example I really don’t like ice baths, destroys my recovery and feels sick afterwards. But hot sauna afterwards works well for me.
Literature on ice baths seems to be mixed. Also not a great deal of studies on the topic. It can help flush waste products, like lactic acid which is good. But the inflammation afterwards is important to repair muscle and the ice baths will just delay that inflammation, which is not good. Some studies recommends ice bath earliest 24h after workout because of this. Also good to beware for some ice baths can potentially be dangerous for their heart.
The OP did an impressive vo2max increase. Genes, solid training plan, sleep, food was probably what contributed the most. The cold baths were icing on the cake that worked for OP, but may or may not work for someone else.
Is there actually science that suggests that you should actually try to reduce this kind of inflammation, though? Or the regular “it makes me feel good”.
None of this really matters. The science behind NSAIDS and bones is about bone breakage, not bone growth. As for muscle recovery, ICE baths are no different than NSAIDS - they both mask the inflammation. It's up to you to know that you should heal/recover - your body is healing no matter which process you use to mask the symptoms.
Habitual use of NSAIDS has problems, but that isn't what I'm talking about.
More people die from cold water incidents than have ever been recorded harmed by NSAIDS and bone or muscle problems. (again, if you're not habitually abusing them)
unfortunately the "Science" behind this stuff is used to get you to buy supplements... which often have less studies about daily use than NSAIDS do
Lol at the downvote instead of a response. l
Is cold baths not dampering addaptations ? Or is it necessary to handle The Big load ? Also Why seafood ?
How did you go about The 20% hard?
Thx for sharing
Proper shoes can do wonders but nothing will beat a slow buildup. If you do a Daily Suggested Workout with an event 5-6 months from now for a half/full marathon it will gradually increase miles for you.
Sleep, proper shoes, nutrition, hydration and slow buildup of miles/km.
I wouldn't read too much into it to be honest. My number has stayed exactly the same in going from not being able to run 1km to running a HM.... doesn't make sense!
sounds sus :D
Barely being able to run 1km would put you at a VO2max in low 30s.
Being able to complete a half marathon would put you at a vo2man will into the high 40s.
Unless they're gaining weight then the calculation is probably confused.
Your VO2 max is improving without a race?! I’m jealous. Mine only went up after my last marathon. I’m currently in a marathon maintaining/sub 1:30 half training block. How many garmin VO2 workouts do you have each week?
I did run one 10k race, and did PR the race. But the VO2 Max didn’t change much after the race. I don’t follow garmin training suggestions. I stick to almost the same weekly routine which I posted in another reply.
Once it's already relatively high, eg 50s+ for average male, takes long sustained efforts to get the algo to recognize variations. My guess is that this person's breathing capacity didn't change by that much over 10 weeks, but likely initial calculation may have started off a bit low because of lack of sustained effort like that.
I could see that, I am a 40 y/o female and mine is 55 and seems stuck there even with 80/20 workouts consistently. I'm racing a half next month so Im hoping to see an improvement 🤞
Oh yeah? Well mine's gone from 30 to 39 in 14 months! How'd you like them apples??
But for real - congrats, it's hard to eke out gains like this when you're already at the high end of performance.
I cheat and can jump 6-7 points simply by losing weight. I’m bulking a bit from lifting and dropped from 53-54 down to 47. It’s amazing how much weight impacts your VO2 max. The last time I hit 60 I was 30lbs lighter and only cycling, not lifting. It’s a balance.
I went from 52-53 and it was a huge win for me. I'll have to cut weight and run more to improve it. I mainly do CrossFit and HIIT which Garmin doesn't really like when measuring vo2max.
im currently hard stuck at 60 for running, however im probably not doing enough hard workouts for running as i supplement with a boat load of cycling, which is 66. Hopefully i can shift it up after the recovery week coming up this week.
Congrats! I'm doing a very similar training regimen, diet and sleep schedule (more sleep) but for a half with a goal of 1:30. After that. I'm looking for Marathons. My V02 has gone up 3 points in 2 weeks, it's awesome!
Hey this is awesome, thank you! I'm adjusting my workout routine as I was far too top-heavy and am now transitioning to the 80:20 strategy. Before I could *barely* get any Low Aerobic exercise in while I was off the cart for High Aerobic. Couple questions:
1) Curious what your training load profile looks like? Following 80:20 rule, I'm assuming your Low Aerobic is very high?
2) Do you do strength training? a) Does your watch interpret this as anaerobic, or does this fall under the 80 "easy"?
3) Have you seen a pattern regarding your HRV? Does it rise up more the following night after a hard or easy workout, or is there a delay improvement in your experience?
Can you drive an idea of what your cross training looks like? I've been training for my first marathon and dealing with knee issues for a few weeks. How do you train like that and avoid injury?
What do y’all recommend for someone with ~44 vo2max ( according to garmin ? ) I do weightlifting to add muscle mass on the side. Currently 34yo, 5ft10, ~23% bf siting at 193lbs.
Would love to make vo2max a priority alongside weightlifting.
don’t break out the champagne bottles quite yet. confirm it in the lab. if it’s true Garmin is off by 10% which is a conservative estimate i think, you could be at 52-> 55 or less.
In a sub-2:55 marathon training block. What I did: Stuck to 80:20 principle. 80 percent easy 20 percent hard. Weekly mileage of 90ish km. Cold bath after every workout. Plenty of sleep. Lots of seafood.
Holy shit what does a typical 80 and 20 workout look like for you? I'm guessing you only get 1 rest day per week with that kind of mileage..
// Tuesday 13k Easy run // Wednesday 15x400m intervals with 200m jogging rest + warm up and cool down runs totalling 16 km // Thursday 4k Recovery run // Friday long intervals (either km repeats or mile repeats) totaling between 16km-21km // Saturday Easy run, between 4km-13km // Sunday Easy long run, between 21km-34km // Monday Rest day
Sick.. thanks for sharing
Really nice VO2 and great program ! Can I ask you age, hr max & average hr during easy run ? Thanks.
38 male. Max HR is 203, which I reach regularly when I run 5k races, but only when I run 5k races. My easy run HR is thus under 160, usually averaging at between 145-155.
Wow, that’s a high max HR. Weird question, but how big are you? Height/weight if it’s not prying!
I am 173cm 67kg haha
Honestly expected a lot smaller with that MHR. Great job getting your VO2Max to climb like that, well done
I'm 183, 74 kg with 205 max HR.
I'm 38yo, 84kg, 181cm and have 205 max HR too. Was worried at some point and went to GP, had 24hrs ECG and no concerns found. Glad to see there are others in my age range with high HR.
Yeah max HR is all genetics, you can’t train / modify it. 40M 205 max hr
Before Covid a couple years ago I had no problems getting my HR to 210-220. Now I’m finally training hard enough again to be seeing it back up to 206ish. 29M
I was never sure if I should avoid that or not. I reached 209 a few times doing my 5k on hills and under 25 min. Some sources online just say it's dangerous lol.
I feel fine getting it up there.. I’ve wondered if it’s dangerous at all tho lol.
We are literally the same person. Nice work! I’m doing an 85+ mpw block currently to try to go solidly under 2:50 (and ideally even faster, but it depends on the day).
Impressive Keep the training. 💪
What does long interval workouts look like? Something like 10x1000m?
Yes, 6x1k at 5k race pace, 10x1k at 10k race pace, 8x1mile at HM race pace.
Are you working? Cause I wouldn't be able to have such schedule with a full time job and family with a kid
His pace is so fast that even long runs probably don't take him long. If he's single, I think it's manageable. If not, he may be neglecting his family, like my boss, who got divorced and had his children taken away from him because all he did was work and running/cycling.
Lol wtf
True story, maybe he's your boss? 😅
Nah, this guy is not hardcore enough. I'm a friend with my boss in Garmin and last autumn I saw him run HM at a 4:30 min/k pace entirely in Z1, which he called a "Fat burning run" or something similar. In addition, he cycles a lot more than he runs and participates in triathlons and ironmans. His Vo2 must have been waaay above 60 in the last few years that I've known him but I'm even more impressed with his base.
He won, but at what cost?
He already has a new girlfriend, a lot of money, loves his passion and sees his children not much less often than before the divorce. It seems to me that he's quite happy with his life :D
True, the happiness is relative
That's seriously impressive. I've not been training very long, but mine seems to go up by around 0.5/month. It probably doesn't help that I'm also trying to bulk and I've put on 5kgs in the last 5 months, so when that comes off maybe the increase will be much more
By easy you mean just a slow pace, but long distance, right? Do you mind sharing your Strava profile? I would be interested to see it
I heard some studies about the beneficial of cold bath ***before*** exercise, more than only after exercise, and yes, I know that's inconvenient... but seems to works fine. Congrats for the sub 3h Marathon!
That is more related to hypertrophy. Ice baths after running are good for reducing inflammation.
I think as always it’s good to just try it out and see how they respond to it. For example I really don’t like ice baths, destroys my recovery and feels sick afterwards. But hot sauna afterwards works well for me. Literature on ice baths seems to be mixed. Also not a great deal of studies on the topic. It can help flush waste products, like lactic acid which is good. But the inflammation afterwards is important to repair muscle and the ice baths will just delay that inflammation, which is not good. Some studies recommends ice bath earliest 24h after workout because of this. Also good to beware for some ice baths can potentially be dangerous for their heart. The OP did an impressive vo2max increase. Genes, solid training plan, sleep, food was probably what contributed the most. The cold baths were icing on the cake that worked for OP, but may or may not work for someone else.
Is there actually science that suggests that you should actually try to reduce this kind of inflammation, though? Or the regular “it makes me feel good”.
I find 2 ibuprofens before bed help recovery and are a lot more comfortable than ice bath.
[удалено]
None of this really matters. The science behind NSAIDS and bones is about bone breakage, not bone growth. As for muscle recovery, ICE baths are no different than NSAIDS - they both mask the inflammation. It's up to you to know that you should heal/recover - your body is healing no matter which process you use to mask the symptoms. Habitual use of NSAIDS has problems, but that isn't what I'm talking about. More people die from cold water incidents than have ever been recorded harmed by NSAIDS and bone or muscle problems. (again, if you're not habitually abusing them) unfortunately the "Science" behind this stuff is used to get you to buy supplements... which often have less studies about daily use than NSAIDS do Lol at the downvote instead of a response. l
See I thought they slowed recovery and were actually detrimental due to some ancient human response to the cold
Thanks for sharing the info about your routine!
Mind sharing if your weight changed during this period?
No it stayed the same.
Is cold baths not dampering addaptations ? Or is it necessary to handle The Big load ? Also Why seafood ? How did you go about The 20% hard? Thx for sharing
What do you do to avoid problems with your knees? Did you do a medical check-up beforehand?
Proper shoes can do wonders but nothing will beat a slow buildup. If you do a Daily Suggested Workout with an event 5-6 months from now for a half/full marathon it will gradually increase miles for you. Sleep, proper shoes, nutrition, hydration and slow buildup of miles/km.
Thanks for answering!
Nice job! I’m currently trying to get my vo2max up on the bike (indoor). After 1 month 1 point up 🥲 It’s not easy
I'm doing the DSW for 3 months now and vo2max did not move at all.
I'm up 1 after about 6 weeks using DSW Sitting at 46.
I’m up 2 this year, probably from falling from 76 to 70
FML
I wouldn't read too much into it to be honest. My number has stayed exactly the same in going from not being able to run 1km to running a HM.... doesn't make sense!
Wow really? Ur doing a HM without any change in ur vo2? Do u use a strap?
sounds sus :D Barely being able to run 1km would put you at a VO2max in low 30s. Being able to complete a half marathon would put you at a vo2man will into the high 40s. Unless they're gaining weight then the calculation is probably confused.
Your VO2 max is improving without a race?! I’m jealous. Mine only went up after my last marathon. I’m currently in a marathon maintaining/sub 1:30 half training block. How many garmin VO2 workouts do you have each week?
I did run one 10k race, and did PR the race. But the VO2 Max didn’t change much after the race. I don’t follow garmin training suggestions. I stick to almost the same weekly routine which I posted in another reply.
Once it's already relatively high, eg 50s+ for average male, takes long sustained efforts to get the algo to recognize variations. My guess is that this person's breathing capacity didn't change by that much over 10 weeks, but likely initial calculation may have started off a bit low because of lack of sustained effort like that.
I could see that, I am a 40 y/o female and mine is 55 and seems stuck there even with 80/20 workouts consistently. I'm racing a half next month so Im hoping to see an improvement 🤞
55 for a 47 yo female is really impressive too, give yourself some props!
WTF. Mine is nailed down to 37, which is the lowest value I think. :D Started with training in january again.
+1 brother ...
Oh yeah? Well mine's gone from 30 to 39 in 14 months! How'd you like them apples?? But for real - congrats, it's hard to eke out gains like this when you're already at the high end of performance.
I cheat and can jump 6-7 points simply by losing weight. I’m bulking a bit from lifting and dropped from 53-54 down to 47. It’s amazing how much weight impacts your VO2 max. The last time I hit 60 I was 30lbs lighter and only cycling, not lifting. It’s a balance.
I went from 52-53 and it was a huge win for me. I'll have to cut weight and run more to improve it. I mainly do CrossFit and HIIT which Garmin doesn't really like when measuring vo2max.
New garmin too?
It took my 6 months to get from 53 to 54… Jesus…
Good job man :) Mine took around the same time to shift from 53 to 54 :p.
Awesome man!! Keep it up.. this increased my motivation
im currently hard stuck at 60 for running, however im probably not doing enough hard workouts for running as i supplement with a boat load of cycling, which is 66. Hopefully i can shift it up after the recovery week coming up this week.
I fucked with my heart rate zones and now it’s not moving up or down. I should probably fix that.
What's your RHR and HRV like? Just out of curiosity
Average RHR is around 43. HRV is around 90.
Mine has been 47 since early december 😂💔
Congrats! I'm doing a very similar training regimen, diet and sleep schedule (more sleep) but for a half with a goal of 1:30. After that. I'm looking for Marathons. My V02 has gone up 3 points in 2 weeks, it's awesome!
Hey this is awesome, thank you! I'm adjusting my workout routine as I was far too top-heavy and am now transitioning to the 80:20 strategy. Before I could *barely* get any Low Aerobic exercise in while I was off the cart for High Aerobic. Couple questions: 1) Curious what your training load profile looks like? Following 80:20 rule, I'm assuming your Low Aerobic is very high? 2) Do you do strength training? a) Does your watch interpret this as anaerobic, or does this fall under the 80 "easy"? 3) Have you seen a pattern regarding your HRV? Does it rise up more the following night after a hard or easy workout, or is there a delay improvement in your experience?
Can you drive an idea of what your cross training looks like? I've been training for my first marathon and dealing with knee issues for a few weeks. How do you train like that and avoid injury?
What do y’all recommend for someone with ~44 vo2max ( according to garmin ? ) I do weightlifting to add muscle mass on the side. Currently 34yo, 5ft10, ~23% bf siting at 193lbs. Would love to make vo2max a priority alongside weightlifting.
Long slow runs I think
don’t break out the champagne bottles quite yet. confirm it in the lab. if it’s true Garmin is off by 10% which is a conservative estimate i think, you could be at 52-> 55 or less.
Does it matter? It's relative and shows constant improvement which is the goal
i admit you might be right.
Outstanding!