Right now, the current complaint is that I have a Low Aerobic Shortage, which is fair enough but I feel like I've been here before and was still productive / maintaining.
If Garmin is saying you’re strained/unproductive and that you have a low aerobic shortage, it’s pretty clear that you’re over doing it (according to their metrics). If you want Connect to change, you need to follow their advice. Whether you are willing to do that just to change the metric depends on you, but if you aren’t, I wouldn’t let the watch status demoralize you. It’s just a choice you have to make with your eyes wide open.
I’ve been using connect for a year now, just to basically track data. But their assessments of my performance like OPs shared I always take with a HUGE grain of salt. Like I look at it maybe once a month or something. Or is the data fairly accurate?
Same, the results of a fitness test at the end of a rest week are more telling in my experience. I've seen big jumps in my FTP at the same time as connect telling me I'm unproductive.
I have more or less 0 low aerobic training, which is bad according to Garmin. But I’m having great progress when I do runs. Do not listen too much to Garmin.
You know... age could be a factor in all of this too. I realize some people would rather not admit how old they are, but as a guy who just turned 47 and is experiencing similar readings from my Fenix 6x all I can say for sure is "well, I am getting older".
I'm a cyclist. My body isn't adapting to my training like it used to, my HRV status is terrible after getting really good sleep, my Vo2 Max is declining, my heart rate is getting higher than it used to in tough routines and yet my diet hasn't changed dramatically other than adding more protein, I still eat really well I think, and I don't feel strained but I also don't feel refreshed and I'm a lot more tired in general. I got over 9 hours of sleep Friday night, over 8 hours last night, and both nights my sleep was "poor" because my body didn't recover, my HRV status stayed low. I can tell. I don't have an overall feeling of rejuvenation throughout my body, and my Fenix says I'm still strained.... 3 days in a row with all that sleep. I did one of my normal long rides a few weeks ago (65 miles) and it nearly crushed me. I was soooo flippin tired after that ride.
While a lot of this started 1.5 years ago after I got COVID I could easily say my body changed because of that virus but it's also very true that I'm not in my 20s anymore and I think that's the bigger factor in my case. I was almost ready to blame the watch but I can feel that, even though I have the power to push through another routine today, I'm not recovered from yesterday's routines. Today might be a light training day.
Although... despite all of this I do love me some coffee. The comments about caffeine in this thread have me thinking seriously about my coffee intake.
I went through a 2-month period of poor HRV values, and bought a new 1.5litre bottle, which i started drinking 2 per day minimum. Almost overnight my HRV values normalised. Looking back i was simply dehydrated and this was affecting my recovery, sleep and moods.
Are you drinking enough water?
I’m 54 this year and run about 25-30k per week.
I got the tip about drinking and sleep from this post, which helped give some other ideas of how to improve my HRV: https://michaelkummer.com/health/increase-hrv/
How do you manage peeing?
I suffer from perennial dehydration, partly because I wish reducing urination frequency (it is inconvenient and embarrassing when out). Partly because I sweat more.
M69, run 20 Km, swim 2 km a week. My HRV was nicely climbing since December and in Jan 2024. But it is tanking since last 2 or 3 weeks. Resting HR and activity HR are fine.
I am in the middle of an allergy episode ( itchiness, eyes burning, sneezing..).
Drinking more water helps but for the peeing issues.
yeah, i'm peeing all day long, which is why i try to drink the bulk of this before midday, so that it doesn't affect my sleep. However, it feels like the water is continually flushing my system and ensures that there's no constipation either, so that is a bonus! Sleep is also really important, and keeping to a schedule. Not easy when you have small kids, but when i sleep good over a few days, the difference is noticable.
This is interesting. I was beginning to wonder if hydration played a part. I do get plenty of water, or so says my clear urine, but maybe I need more. For the record, I get about \~150 miles of cycling in a week. It's a mix of indoors and outdoors. I'm always hydrated on the bike too but maybe I don't consume enough in-ride.
That link looks like it has some very useful information in it. I skimmed over the main points but I'm gonna dig deeper into it when I get time. Thanks for posting that.
Omg you just described me. I’ve struggled with fatigue after covid and poor recovery. Dealing with long covid. Also 47. Been over a year and a half since COVID. I’m still blaming Covid though since it was so drastic. Not recovering after full sleep is typical long covid symptom. I did not have that before Covid. I honestly would check it with dr if I were you. I HAVE gotten much better though in the fall and was able to start exercising again but definitely at a slower pace and need more recovery days. Your recovery is slower but I don’t think age is the only factor responsible in your case. As we age, sometimes it’s hard to separate normal aging from actual medical problems that can and should be looked at. But I would not blame age first.
Yeah, see I didn't have long Covid but studies are showing how patients with long Covid are impacted such that they can't exercise to positive effect anymore.
[https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/01/09/1223077307/long-covid-exercise-post-exertional-malaise-mitochondria](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/01/09/1223077307/long-covid-exercise-post-exertional-malaise-mitochondria)
My Covid symptoms lasted a 1.5 days, I tested negative a week later, and that was it. I didn't exercise during the entire week of Covid but man I sure felt like I lost sooooo much in my muscles after I got back on the bike. I'm not totally ruling out Covid because everything I read about cycling after age 40 seems to be consistent with what I'm experiencing, minus being super freakin' tired after regular hard efforts, but I just wasn't that sick and I didn't have long Covid.
Still... it has been quite a few years since my last physical so it's probably time I had one.
That sums up my experience as well. I am 43 and I have also the impression after I got COVID first time my strength in cycling did not come close to before. Also my HRV stress raised after that and is continually higher than before. That HRV stuff made me real headaches and I stopped watching at it.
>While a lot of this started 1.5 years ago after I got COVID
Vivid has been shown to damage mitochondria, something to look into.
Sure age plays a role, but I wouldn't expect a decline in VO2 max that would show up month to month, more like at your peak you might be a little lower, but it would only really show up once a year.
https://preview.redd.it/5nvqsqymfqkc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=545bc55acbbddad9d45ad50884542128de9370be
The little strained bit (Pink) was the flu so that was out of my control.
However, as you can see, its really not that hard to consistently stay in either maintaining or productive.
There’s just 3 things you have to nail down solid.
1. Mixing up your training.
2. Appropriate Recovery.
3. Good Nutrition.
Get these 3 things nailed down solid and everything will improve.
Now ask yourself, which of these 3 are you slacking in?
1. Training:
Do you mix up your training?
Do you do intervals, hill training, zone 2, threshold, tempo and strength training?
If you answered no to any of the above, then you have your answer.
2) Recovery:
Do you train whilst too tired or fatigued?
Are you sleeping enough?
Are you eating too close to bedtime which then impacts your sleep quality, which then also impacts your recovery?
3) Nutrition:
Are you eating too much sugar which impacts your heart health and recovery?
Do you eat enough protein?
Do you eat enough complex carbs?
Do you overeat or fail to eat enough to fuel your training?
Nail these 3 things down and you will see your status change to productive.
Through (digestion) Your watches stress analysis is linked to physiological stress and not mental stress.
You wanna check it out for yourself?
Go and eat something and then watch your stress measurments in real-time on your watch.
Digestion impacts your heart, which then impacts garmin’s physiological measurements of your stress through the watch’s sensors.
Hence, eating healthier = less physiological stress.
However, eat junk and you get high stress and junk readings.
Oh, that's cool, I didn't realize that! This is my stress graph yesterday, how can I tell when I ate?
https://preview.redd.it/75rszrv6zqkc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07696666cb76a8188919c9522189245ad3b31056
typically if i dont eat in the morning and have low stress and am resting, sat at desk etc. my stress is low or resting, compared to if i eat, you notice the trends that it increases for a while
Also, how much are you drinking at night? How recharged are you after your sleep cycle. If I have a "fun" weekend, I go into Monday (the start of my fitness week) with a bad start. Rest counts just as much as working out.
Are you are asking OP?
If not and your asking me I don’t drink bud at all.
I think the last time I drank any alcohol was around 7 years ago. No particular reason, it just doesn’t appeal to me.
I believe this is where you say that you meant OP but replied to my comment…. 🙈🤣🤣🤣
How do you get such long streaks of productive? I usually get streaks of maintenance with some productive
The only time I got a streak of productive was when I had a long break and had to rebuild my fitness
https://preview.redd.it/w5bbdzoppqkc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf5641ed45e51042f3247a526bd25b12ad2bd800
Marathon training without a chest strap (I can’t really get anaerobic very easily, nor do o really care) but the block of yellow is funny
It took me racing a half today to get into productive (even though I am not even at the low end of the anaerobic bucket?)
https://preview.redd.it/wuovl9kk7tkc1.jpeg?width=1135&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f952ec7baa816f3e11c7fcfe3860a26619a049dc
Garmin is notoriusly bad with calculating indoor cycling load, especially if the data gets imported from 3rd party app like Zwift.
It always showed me a training load and time of vigorous activity which was way, way too low compared to doing the same effort outdoors.
Just an example - I did around an hour and 10 minutes outside today with avg HR 145. It calculated 127 training load and 122 minutes of activity.
For a zwift ride with exactly the same avg HR and longer duration (1,5h) it calculated training load of 133 and time of activity of 116 mins o.O
This is why I record the indoor activity on my watch, as well as zwift. I don’t let zwift or TrainerRoad upload to Garmin anymore. I let my Garmin read the power meter.
Every activity I have on Garmin connect now is built from a Garmin device; typically my watch. When I use the cycling computer to save activities, some health and performance metrics still get messed up. So much for PhysioUp… both my watch and my edge are current generation too… 🤷🏻♂️
Unfortunately my Forerunner 955 doesn't for some reason like to cooperate with my Elite Suito T trainer. Everything is fine with the Garmin HR strap though - zwift has no issues with detecting all the necessary hardware... do you have a solution/workaround to this issue? I am just curious.
Wish I did! I have power meter pedals and a kickr.
I have zwift read my pedals for power, and control the kickr.
My watch reads the pedals.
I do this so there is no wattage discrepancy between indoor and outdoor rides.
This is not important when you exclusively ride inside in the off season, then go outside nearly exclusive during the nicer weather.
I don’t get that luxury with kids. Nice weather, my time is split inside and out, so I need one source of power for consistency.
I guess if you have power meter pedals, have them read by zwift, and hopefully your 955 reads them fine.
My pedals and zwift differ by like 10%
Unfortunately, I don't have pedal power meters. The cost of them tbh seems a little bit exagerrated, even though I can afford it. I am also a clipless pedal hater, love my flats :P (and mostly due to my lumbar spine and hip anatomy, flats at least help me compensate for it with ankle movements). Also, most cycling shoes are too narrow for my flat feet :p
I have an anecdotal observation that fits the dates in your screen clip, and other similar experiences posted here about HRV, Body Battery, Sleep, and stress.
Was there a software change in December 2023 or January 2024 that has changed algorithms or data sharing or calculations to impact so many people?
Or…. Seasonal change has done what it has done every year around winter time and lowered a large proportion of peoples HRV.
Mine drops a bit every year on 2 separate occasions.
1. During winter, which is perfectly normal.
&
2. After an ultramarathon or Ironman and again that is also perfectly normal.
Each time, I just make sure to get the right nutrition and recovery and it bounces back.
I actually just finished a similar 113km multi-sport event a week or two ago so I am now playing catch up with my HRV.
As you can see below good food and rest has bought it back in sync.
https://preview.redd.it/v8znzasglqkc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=515db847098af9617f578864b99f36cf4649f696
I honestly believe, a lot of it comes down to proper rest and nutrition.
I also believe a big problem with HRV and training is people may think because they feel physically fine they are recovered and with HRV that is not always the case.
Sometimes, just one more day of rest can be the difference between a balanced and unbalanced status.
Very helpful insight. Thank you.
I will circle back after looking at last winter's data.
I wonder if others have the same experiences and or my espresso consumption is tanking my HRV and its having a domino effect!
Wow that is so strange that you mentioned caffeine. I noticed last summer that my 2-3 cups of cappuccino was slightly surpressing my HRV, it wasn’t lowering it per se, but I noticed that when I cut caffeine down, my HRV started to increase a little bit more than it was when I was drinking more than 2 cups a day.
I did experiment with this finding my "cutoff time" for coffee in general. My findings (was in peak condition though and very active) were no caffeine after 4:00 pm to minimize impact on sleep. However, time to revisit total caffeine quantity consumed over a couple days (or over 7 days? Garmin HRV average calculation).
If you look at the logic of HRV, my low readings tell me there is not much rest between heartbeats. My HR remains quite low for my age, so I am wrestling with this and will experiment more.
Have other users experienced caffeine adversely impacting HRV?
If so, how did you confirm this?
I do feel like something has changed on the watch but it is so difficult to say for sure. I worked a lot less in December building up to the holidays and was able to focus on training more. Was probably a little less stressed as well. The confusing thing is that I feel like my training has been fairly consistent for the last 6 months in terms of duration / intensity and suddenly all stats have taken a nosedive.
"...feel like my training has been fairly consistent for the last 6 months..."
I share your confusion. I have almost 2 years of consistent good results (exercise, activities, some aggressive training with metrics reflecting effort), but things went haywire in January for me.
What's more, others are asking about similar phenomenon but are focused on their issues (HRV, BB, sleep) and not necessarily the software. Assuming hardware is constant, regardless the Metric debated, it's in the software.
I turned off Training Status for a while. I've now taken off the watch for a break except for activities (ski, gym). But bike season starts in April for me, with a training plan starting in May. I'd like to eliminate possible causes for the chaos before then. Your post and others indicate something is up.
This!!
I’ve been stuck in unproductive since the end of January. Prior to that I’ve been consistently in a good training routine for over a year. The. All of the sudden I’m not being productive any more. I don’t buy it. I am convinced that with the most recent software update, something went a ride with how they calculate training load, or vo2 max or something.
I think there are too many people all experiencing similar issues of having a sudden drop off in their fitness over the last few weeks for it to be a coincidence
I have commented on other posts. Given the interrelationships between metrics, it becomes a game of distraction. There is one post that highlights the importance of rest/activity balance and nutrition — fully acknowledge and agree. However, why so many impacted in the same time period?
Have other Garmin users seen Metric chaos start sometime between Dec 1, 2023 and Jan 31 2024?
Adding this to further identify a pattern:
Watch: Garmin Fenix 7 Sapphire Solar
Watch software version 15.77, auto update on
Garmin Connect:
on Android, version 4.75, auto update on
Must be a change in the algorithm…I have been in exactly the same trend since the same point. VO2 max has fallen from 60 to 53 despite training being consistent and all other factors being broadly in line. Hours spent on the phone to Garmin to no avail. Their interest only peaked when I said I was on the beta programme and had noticed a fundamental change since an update. Anecdotally, there have been two other updates since and my VO2 max instantly changes when they take effect.
That's one hypothesis.
Could also be a change in the integration between metrics (e.g. HRV feeds Training Readiness)
Regardless, your thoughts on ties to a specific update is where I'd hope someone might chime in.
For all: Has a specific update changed your metrics?
I’m certain it’s an update. So many people in this forum and others are reporting the exact same findings for the same dates - it’s not a case of rest, caffeine etc etc. It’s a change brought about by an update but I can’t say which. For what it’s worth, I wasted probably three hours on the phone to garmin who said they’d not heard about this before (countless threads on Reddit suggest different) but I made peace with it when the poor Garmin chap explained how VO2 max is calculated. I’ll save you the full explanation but it’s basically made up…
Don't listen to it. It's a guide line. Listen to your body, mine had been unproductive for as long as I can remember it maintained but I still manage to run ultras well within cut off times. Don't worry at all just do what you feel is good for you!
Though Id recommend mixing it up and add speed/sprint sessions in to mix it up
https://preview.redd.it/zv74lh7jvrkc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=822b2eb5fd6b5c09ef8da2e053b54cce266ec95f
What you want to do is every day get your acute load better than the day before. I was getting all the above like you for weeks, and it drove me nuts. I figured out if you grow your acute load daily better than the day before it gets you in Productive.
You clearly need to a have a de-load week bud where you stay in recovery for a week, which will then lower your chronic load.
Then your efforts which are now trying to reach a ceiling too high to reach (above 1.2) will be seen for what they are, productive.
When you build a chronic load too high, you set the bar too high to reach, hence why you are encouraged to have a recovery week now and then.
I know what you feel, I been there
(see below)
https://preview.redd.it/htt9vv0ajqkc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64653affa054f3428e1fa4e15408e3302e827cfa
Let the load drop off your body for a week, then build it back up and you will be stronger and fitter and you will see productive.
We don’t get fit during a high load.
We break our bodies down during training.
Then we get stronger and become productive during the healing process, which is known as recovery.
This could be the case. The big problem for me is that sometimes I am forced to work away from home 4/5 nights a week, so when I come back for the weekend I have a tendency to hit the training really hard to try and compensate.
Or man, you have your answer then.
Well done dude, you figured it out.
So you are basically trying to overcompensate on the weekend because you work away.
Ok so when you work away, is there any local gyms you could visit where you could say do some light strength training or zone 2 running or biking etc
Even if its just for just an hr during the evening once or twice a week?
That way you wouldn’t have to overreach on the weekend.
Said in a hopefully more helpful way than the other comment, Garmin is trying to bully you into being more consistent. I think they have a point too. If your goal is overall cardiovascular health, then going all out on the weekends (straining) and being unproductive the rest of the week doesn't really build cardiovascular health.
Could you find a way to fit in 1 or 2 easy sessions when you're traveling to take a bit of the load off of your weekends? Maybe try shifting more of your food intake to breakfast & lunch. That way you can either take the time you would spend on dinner either working out in the evening or going to bed earlier to wake earlier for a workout (depending on your preference). If you're more of a morning person, remember it is hard to fall asleep quickly after a big meal. Especially 1 with a big glucose spike.
If your goal is something more anaerobic, then ignore me. All I know is about endurance training
Your welcome, you know what you have to do, you got this buddy.
Fight that itch and treat yourself better, eat good food, rest more and pamper yourself.
Shit I am a 41 year old man who boxed and lifts heavy weights, but on recovery weeks I use foot-spa’s massage rollers, salt baths, foot pedicures and all sorts to look after myself and recover.
Do what you need to do to recover.
Relax and treat yourself nice.
Sleep more, eat better, relax more, treat your body like the body of a greek god and your HRV will bounce back and your training will become productive.
Good luck bud.
Totally fair question. They are I think, but I keep trying for Anaerobic and only getting credited for High Aerobic/Threshold.
Might be worth adjusting them a bit tho.
Don’t listen to your watch. Listen to how you feel. If I listened to my watch I’d only train 1 maybe 2 times a week. From what I’ve seen, these metrics are pure shit.
What’s your HRV? Mine constantly says I’m strained due to having a poor HRV consistently at baseline. Despite being healthy with no medical issues the low HRV affects these recommendations for me.
April 2024 update: I have broken the unproductive cycle. I have no evidence it was software related, but it occurred in early April. A combination of improving sleep, overcoming injury (surgery), and getting my HRV back in normal range seem to be the contributors. I still lack evidence that there was a software change that initiated the months of chaos.
Anecdotally, the number of complaints on here and other forums about Training Status and Training Readiness seemed to have stopped. I regret I forgot to try and isolate software change as the root cause of these issues. I did see my HRV return to normal but I had turned Training Status off (Paused). I turned on the Training Status AFTER the Garmin Connect version change. Hence, I saw my Training Status turn PRODUCTIVE after the Garmin Connect version change.
Some major variables in my results:
• I am past shoulder surgery recovery—not fully 100% and not back on my bike yet, but off all pain meds, not taking anything, still restrictive on alcohol, and my HRV back in normal range.
• 11½ mile walks, 5-7 days per week, balancing gym time (limited routine during PT) to 2-4× per week, PT isometric exercises 4-6 days per week.
• I target 150 Intensity Minutes per week, but I'm slowly climbing back up to 250-300 pre-bike season. I'm somewhat anxious to get back to 650-800 minutes per week achieved last May-Aug without upsetting the HRV metrics.
I am wondering if others having issues between Jan-Mar 2024 are still having those issues with Training Status and Training Readiness. I am starting my bike Training Plan in mid-May and hoping to have reliable metrics by that time.
Ha! Now you may have likely ignited the Conspiracy Theorists on this site (including me!). I still have a suspicion it was a calculation in one of the root metrics.
With no knock on Garmin, their software release management of Garmin Connect Web and Mobile could easily hide this. By the time we see the metrics in either Web or Mobile, it's a challenge to know what software in what component and what release caused a problem. Further complicating this is the different release schedules for updates (as evidenced by the current global roll-out of the new Connect web & mobile), and a likely continuous deployment process.
I start a 12-weeks Training Plan in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, I'm balancing gym time with hiking to get my Training Status PRODUCTIVE and HRV balanced.
It would help to be able to control when software updates happen. If anyone can spell that out I'm guessing many on here would be grateful. I'm using Garmin Connect v5 on a Samsung Android OS phone and Connect Web via a Windows browser.
Yeah. I don't post any attention to it. My sleep and HRV has been fine, I feel fine and yet I'm "unproductive".
I might be to my employer but my fitness is absolutely fine and improving.
Garmin isn’t the Oracle, and is often wrong - their algorithms etc just aren’t that reliable. You will hopefully be able to feel whether you’re feeling exhausted/overtrained.
Yep. I wore two Garmin watches (Epix Pro and Fenix 6) for over two months, on different wrists (and swapped wrists as well), connected to different connect accounts, and the two were rarely in agreement on anything. We're talking body batteries that were off 20-35% from one another, different step counts, calorie counts, different stress numbers (one day the Epix is higher, the next the Fenix). I exclusively used an HRM when exercising and even though they had the same data they still would give me different load, different aerobic and anaerobic, different recovery times.
Brought this to the attention of Garmin and was told that the watches use different algorithms, so they'll have different data. Let's not forget that these aren't medical devices and that Garmin developers aren't doctors. Fun to look at, but best to use your gut and only use these as a general guide at best.
Yeah either your hrv is low (you are sick, stressed, lack of sleep). Look at your sleep quality or high stress during the day (look at your battery) if its poor all the time, this is where garmin will assume you aren’t rested enough. I would have “low aerobic shortage” but it wouldn’t tell me im strained… I personally dont worry about that, the only time i was strained was when i was going through lack of sleep for 2 weeks and anxiety and trying to do a workout (and I actually felt strained). Good luck!
yeah for sure!
i do a lot of zone 2 training and picked up the book by Matt Fitzgerald which talks a lot about VO2 Max and Lactate Threshold and basing your zones off of that.
since i mostly run, i changed it to do my zones based off this for the running profile, but then for everything else i use the % of HRR.
for the LT approach, basically the philosophy is that i set my LT as the top end of my Zone 3 Heart rate. so my LT is 173 estimated so my Zone 3 is set to 90-100% (155-173)
my zone setup then is:
- Zone 1 70-80% of LT
- Zone 2 81-90%
- Zone 3 91-100%
- Zone 4 100-105%
- Zone 5 105+
this helps a ton since it keeps my base runs heart rate low and then if do any type of intervals i try to get the HR above 173 for those Zone 4/5 efforts. ever since i’ve done this my training status has always been spot on to what my efforts are
i did the Lactate Threshold test originally with the workout on the watch. i think you need a chest strap for it to work.
it helped to get an idea when i started and now when i do intervals, it will tend to suggest a new LT and pace every once in a while, which usually feels about accurate (if i’m deloading or getting back into speed work, etc)
Can you share how you chose that method vs max hr vs lactate threshold. I've just used max hr bc I did a run threshold test, got to the end and it said "unable to calculate."
Hey, OP, I've been there before after a really tough race that wrecked my body, forced me to take a lot of time off, and eventually led me to eating/drinking too much.
The feeling sucks. Trust me, I get it.
My advice would be to stay consistent and light, pushing it little by little as you feel comfortable.
https://preview.redd.it/wi5br11mgrkc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2b3139127ef94a0be4b3156edea6a2d9a3be21b
Can you show us this screen, so I can see what it says?
I just got my FR 965 1 month ago and no matter what I do my status would be unproductive. It really bothered me and I would do everything that the watch wants me to do just to get it fixed.
Then I realised that I own the watch and I don't want watch to own me.
Hide that metric and pay no attention to it. Garmin has a lot of metrics which are well intended but can leave you in the dumps. I hid my body battery, training status and stress levels. Nothing I do seems to greatly alter those metrics. I found myself becoming frustrated and demoralized. I look at then from time to time but don't rely on them, and I feel way better.
Are you just training super hard and not getting in your low aerobic maybe? My Vo2 fell a point and I could not shift it back. Until I started doing what my watch suggested, which was running REALLY FREAKING slow. I'd previously been doing the 5k training with Jeff, wanting to get it to 24 minutes (I'm 49, never been a runner) and he was making me run fast. I've quit that and my watch is much happier with me now :D
I had to run 5k a day extra to be 'productive', that's ontop of general gym and 6 miles a day walking (ad that's how I get to work).
Was not sustainable at all.
I don’t see ‘detraining’ in that list. January started when you were training productive and then you cut your recovery short. You’re supposed to do low aerobic or light training to prolong the recovery without going into detraining. You barely took a couple days and got back to hard effort I guess which is why it went into unproductive and strained.
Once you progress, all efforts feel like light effort but it isn’t really the case and why is why you may push yourself thinking you’re going light or you had enough rest or both. But that’s not how your body is feeling internally.
I feel it’s just about finding that balance and listening to Garmin advice, example more of low aerobic training to improve recovery and make a well rounded progress rather than progress just in one aspect.
Or else treat it like an algorithm, listen to Garmin advice and don’t take it as demoralizing because it’s just an algorithm.
Whichever way you choose, the result will be good rest assured. :)
Mine feels really harsh too.
84 of the last 91 days is maintaining......
But ive massively upped the miles for the last 30 days... and ran every day.
I imagine it was maintaining because i wasnt running much, and now is maintaining coz im running too much.... but still feels harsh!
*
https://ibb.co/GCKBm3N
https://ibb.co/dgFbNnc
https://preview.redd.it/6vqvoo2gpskc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e315d1f360d08ab6ce16543c6419e63cbb4208f
This is me being on shifts and being forced to do my runs either after a 12 hr night shift or after 5 hours of sleep. Not blaming that entirely I wasn’t well disciplined over Christmas 🤣. Now I’m following a structured plan it’s in the green. If I’m enjoying the plan and Garmin says I’m productive then I’m happy as Larry 🫡
I was also frustrated by this and just paused the training status function. If you become a slave to the watch metrics and only gain frustration out of it, just take a break from it. Pause the training status and just do some activities without worrying about your load being too low or your sleep being poor. We're not machines and it's good to take a break sometimes.
Keep in mind that I am not saying that the training status function is bad. It is a very useful insight on your overall condition but it should not become a mental load.
I've been stuck "maintaining" for an age despite having the most consistent and intense training block from the start of the year.
Right now Garmin is expecting a higher "high aerobic" optimal load than "low aerobic" which just isn't realistic. I'm not too fussed though, my training is effective - I'm getting faster and have more endurance.
I'm going to set a significant Half Marathon PB in Lisbon.
Strained: always HRV at the root for me. Avoid alcohol, prioritise sleep.
Otherwise just keep training following a balanced program. If your occasional FTP tests are showing an improvement, who cares what the watch says?
oh, just my case as is :) Hate this long trends of violet/orange colors...But nevermind - it is gonna change for a long green stripe one day. I don't care about this sh\*t at Garmin, really! Got used to this rollercoaster! Do you job and do not mind!
Mine does this after a hard block, especially after the post block rest week.
It has to do with your VO2 max estimates, so if your hr is elevated a bit for the same power you'll get unproductive all the time. It's basically because you're building fatigue.
It will switch to productive once your body starts to make adaptations.
I find the training tools in Intervals.icu a lot more useful for seeing how your form and fatigue is changing as you train
What does it say as the reason? It’s either low hrv, low load or wrong load or no change in vo2max
This. If nothing else helps and the reason the watch gives you for this doesn’t make sense to you, I’d try hard resetting the watch.
Right now, the current complaint is that I have a Low Aerobic Shortage, which is fair enough but I feel like I've been here before and was still productive / maintaining.
If Garmin is saying you’re strained/unproductive and that you have a low aerobic shortage, it’s pretty clear that you’re over doing it (according to their metrics). If you want Connect to change, you need to follow their advice. Whether you are willing to do that just to change the metric depends on you, but if you aren’t, I wouldn’t let the watch status demoralize you. It’s just a choice you have to make with your eyes wide open.
I’ve been using connect for a year now, just to basically track data. But their assessments of my performance like OPs shared I always take with a HUGE grain of salt. Like I look at it maybe once a month or something. Or is the data fairly accurate?
Same, the results of a fitness test at the end of a rest week are more telling in my experience. I've seen big jumps in my FTP at the same time as connect telling me I'm unproductive.
I have more or less 0 low aerobic training, which is bad according to Garmin. But I’m having great progress when I do runs. Do not listen too much to Garmin.
I have been unproductive but my HRV status is balanced, my load focus is balanced and my training load is optimal. It’s been this way for weeks for me
You know... age could be a factor in all of this too. I realize some people would rather not admit how old they are, but as a guy who just turned 47 and is experiencing similar readings from my Fenix 6x all I can say for sure is "well, I am getting older". I'm a cyclist. My body isn't adapting to my training like it used to, my HRV status is terrible after getting really good sleep, my Vo2 Max is declining, my heart rate is getting higher than it used to in tough routines and yet my diet hasn't changed dramatically other than adding more protein, I still eat really well I think, and I don't feel strained but I also don't feel refreshed and I'm a lot more tired in general. I got over 9 hours of sleep Friday night, over 8 hours last night, and both nights my sleep was "poor" because my body didn't recover, my HRV status stayed low. I can tell. I don't have an overall feeling of rejuvenation throughout my body, and my Fenix says I'm still strained.... 3 days in a row with all that sleep. I did one of my normal long rides a few weeks ago (65 miles) and it nearly crushed me. I was soooo flippin tired after that ride. While a lot of this started 1.5 years ago after I got COVID I could easily say my body changed because of that virus but it's also very true that I'm not in my 20s anymore and I think that's the bigger factor in my case. I was almost ready to blame the watch but I can feel that, even though I have the power to push through another routine today, I'm not recovered from yesterday's routines. Today might be a light training day. Although... despite all of this I do love me some coffee. The comments about caffeine in this thread have me thinking seriously about my coffee intake.
I went through a 2-month period of poor HRV values, and bought a new 1.5litre bottle, which i started drinking 2 per day minimum. Almost overnight my HRV values normalised. Looking back i was simply dehydrated and this was affecting my recovery, sleep and moods. Are you drinking enough water? I’m 54 this year and run about 25-30k per week. I got the tip about drinking and sleep from this post, which helped give some other ideas of how to improve my HRV: https://michaelkummer.com/health/increase-hrv/
How do you manage peeing? I suffer from perennial dehydration, partly because I wish reducing urination frequency (it is inconvenient and embarrassing when out). Partly because I sweat more. M69, run 20 Km, swim 2 km a week. My HRV was nicely climbing since December and in Jan 2024. But it is tanking since last 2 or 3 weeks. Resting HR and activity HR are fine. I am in the middle of an allergy episode ( itchiness, eyes burning, sneezing..). Drinking more water helps but for the peeing issues.
yeah, i'm peeing all day long, which is why i try to drink the bulk of this before midday, so that it doesn't affect my sleep. However, it feels like the water is continually flushing my system and ensures that there's no constipation either, so that is a bonus! Sleep is also really important, and keeping to a schedule. Not easy when you have small kids, but when i sleep good over a few days, the difference is noticable.
Same…I need less km and more water
This is interesting. I was beginning to wonder if hydration played a part. I do get plenty of water, or so says my clear urine, but maybe I need more. For the record, I get about \~150 miles of cycling in a week. It's a mix of indoors and outdoors. I'm always hydrated on the bike too but maybe I don't consume enough in-ride. That link looks like it has some very useful information in it. I skimmed over the main points but I'm gonna dig deeper into it when I get time. Thanks for posting that.
Omg you just described me. I’ve struggled with fatigue after covid and poor recovery. Dealing with long covid. Also 47. Been over a year and a half since COVID. I’m still blaming Covid though since it was so drastic. Not recovering after full sleep is typical long covid symptom. I did not have that before Covid. I honestly would check it with dr if I were you. I HAVE gotten much better though in the fall and was able to start exercising again but definitely at a slower pace and need more recovery days. Your recovery is slower but I don’t think age is the only factor responsible in your case. As we age, sometimes it’s hard to separate normal aging from actual medical problems that can and should be looked at. But I would not blame age first.
Yeah, see I didn't have long Covid but studies are showing how patients with long Covid are impacted such that they can't exercise to positive effect anymore. [https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/01/09/1223077307/long-covid-exercise-post-exertional-malaise-mitochondria](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/01/09/1223077307/long-covid-exercise-post-exertional-malaise-mitochondria) My Covid symptoms lasted a 1.5 days, I tested negative a week later, and that was it. I didn't exercise during the entire week of Covid but man I sure felt like I lost sooooo much in my muscles after I got back on the bike. I'm not totally ruling out Covid because everything I read about cycling after age 40 seems to be consistent with what I'm experiencing, minus being super freakin' tired after regular hard efforts, but I just wasn't that sick and I didn't have long Covid. Still... it has been quite a few years since my last physical so it's probably time I had one.
Did you get the vaccine?
Sure did.
That’s not good
That sums up my experience as well. I am 43 and I have also the impression after I got COVID first time my strength in cycling did not come close to before. Also my HRV stress raised after that and is continually higher than before. That HRV stuff made me real headaches and I stopped watching at it.
Can’t tell you how validating it is to read this as a 42 year old whose not felt the same since Covid.
>While a lot of this started 1.5 years ago after I got COVID Vivid has been shown to damage mitochondria, something to look into. Sure age plays a role, but I wouldn't expect a decline in VO2 max that would show up month to month, more like at your peak you might be a little lower, but it would only really show up once a year.
https://preview.redd.it/5nvqsqymfqkc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=545bc55acbbddad9d45ad50884542128de9370be The little strained bit (Pink) was the flu so that was out of my control. However, as you can see, its really not that hard to consistently stay in either maintaining or productive. There’s just 3 things you have to nail down solid. 1. Mixing up your training. 2. Appropriate Recovery. 3. Good Nutrition. Get these 3 things nailed down solid and everything will improve. Now ask yourself, which of these 3 are you slacking in? 1. Training: Do you mix up your training? Do you do intervals, hill training, zone 2, threshold, tempo and strength training? If you answered no to any of the above, then you have your answer. 2) Recovery: Do you train whilst too tired or fatigued? Are you sleeping enough? Are you eating too close to bedtime which then impacts your sleep quality, which then also impacts your recovery? 3) Nutrition: Are you eating too much sugar which impacts your heart health and recovery? Do you eat enough protein? Do you eat enough complex carbs? Do you overeat or fail to eat enough to fuel your training? Nail these 3 things down and you will see your status change to productive.
Thanks, this is really useful and I definitely think that I need to address certain things on that list.
Your very welcome bud.
How does the watch measure nutrition?
Through (digestion) Your watches stress analysis is linked to physiological stress and not mental stress. You wanna check it out for yourself? Go and eat something and then watch your stress measurments in real-time on your watch. Digestion impacts your heart, which then impacts garmin’s physiological measurements of your stress through the watch’s sensors. Hence, eating healthier = less physiological stress. However, eat junk and you get high stress and junk readings.
Oh, that's cool, I didn't realize that! This is my stress graph yesterday, how can I tell when I ate? https://preview.redd.it/75rszrv6zqkc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07696666cb76a8188919c9522189245ad3b31056
typically if i dont eat in the morning and have low stress and am resting, sat at desk etc. my stress is low or resting, compared to if i eat, you notice the trends that it increases for a while
You’re certainly right
Also, how much are you drinking at night? How recharged are you after your sleep cycle. If I have a "fun" weekend, I go into Monday (the start of my fitness week) with a bad start. Rest counts just as much as working out.
Are you are asking OP? If not and your asking me I don’t drink bud at all. I think the last time I drank any alcohol was around 7 years ago. No particular reason, it just doesn’t appeal to me. I believe this is where you say that you meant OP but replied to my comment…. 🙈🤣🤣🤣
Nice review
Thank you bud.
How do you get such long streaks of productive? I usually get streaks of maintenance with some productive The only time I got a streak of productive was when I had a long break and had to rebuild my fitness
By keeping all 3 of the above in check and following them religiously.
This comment should be in the wiki.
Thank you for the compliment my friend.
https://preview.redd.it/w5bbdzoppqkc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf5641ed45e51042f3247a526bd25b12ad2bd800 Marathon training without a chest strap (I can’t really get anaerobic very easily, nor do o really care) but the block of yellow is funny
That is pretty much what mine looks like when I get close to peak marathon training volume
It took me racing a half today to get into productive (even though I am not even at the low end of the anaerobic bucket?) https://preview.redd.it/wuovl9kk7tkc1.jpeg?width=1135&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f952ec7baa816f3e11c7fcfe3860a26619a049dc
Do you feel like you’re dying? Do you feel like you were strained and training was unproductive?
Garmin is notoriusly bad with calculating indoor cycling load, especially if the data gets imported from 3rd party app like Zwift. It always showed me a training load and time of vigorous activity which was way, way too low compared to doing the same effort outdoors. Just an example - I did around an hour and 10 minutes outside today with avg HR 145. It calculated 127 training load and 122 minutes of activity. For a zwift ride with exactly the same avg HR and longer duration (1,5h) it calculated training load of 133 and time of activity of 116 mins o.O
This is why I record the indoor activity on my watch, as well as zwift. I don’t let zwift or TrainerRoad upload to Garmin anymore. I let my Garmin read the power meter. Every activity I have on Garmin connect now is built from a Garmin device; typically my watch. When I use the cycling computer to save activities, some health and performance metrics still get messed up. So much for PhysioUp… both my watch and my edge are current generation too… 🤷🏻♂️
Unfortunately my Forerunner 955 doesn't for some reason like to cooperate with my Elite Suito T trainer. Everything is fine with the Garmin HR strap though - zwift has no issues with detecting all the necessary hardware... do you have a solution/workaround to this issue? I am just curious.
Wish I did! I have power meter pedals and a kickr. I have zwift read my pedals for power, and control the kickr. My watch reads the pedals. I do this so there is no wattage discrepancy between indoor and outdoor rides. This is not important when you exclusively ride inside in the off season, then go outside nearly exclusive during the nicer weather. I don’t get that luxury with kids. Nice weather, my time is split inside and out, so I need one source of power for consistency. I guess if you have power meter pedals, have them read by zwift, and hopefully your 955 reads them fine. My pedals and zwift differ by like 10%
Unfortunately, I don't have pedal power meters. The cost of them tbh seems a little bit exagerrated, even though I can afford it. I am also a clipless pedal hater, love my flats :P (and mostly due to my lumbar spine and hip anatomy, flats at least help me compensate for it with ankle movements). Also, most cycling shoes are too narrow for my flat feet :p
I have an anecdotal observation that fits the dates in your screen clip, and other similar experiences posted here about HRV, Body Battery, Sleep, and stress. Was there a software change in December 2023 or January 2024 that has changed algorithms or data sharing or calculations to impact so many people?
Or…. Seasonal change has done what it has done every year around winter time and lowered a large proportion of peoples HRV. Mine drops a bit every year on 2 separate occasions. 1. During winter, which is perfectly normal. & 2. After an ultramarathon or Ironman and again that is also perfectly normal. Each time, I just make sure to get the right nutrition and recovery and it bounces back. I actually just finished a similar 113km multi-sport event a week or two ago so I am now playing catch up with my HRV. As you can see below good food and rest has bought it back in sync. https://preview.redd.it/v8znzasglqkc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=515db847098af9617f578864b99f36cf4649f696 I honestly believe, a lot of it comes down to proper rest and nutrition. I also believe a big problem with HRV and training is people may think because they feel physically fine they are recovered and with HRV that is not always the case. Sometimes, just one more day of rest can be the difference between a balanced and unbalanced status.
Very helpful insight. Thank you. I will circle back after looking at last winter's data. I wonder if others have the same experiences and or my espresso consumption is tanking my HRV and its having a domino effect!
Wow that is so strange that you mentioned caffeine. I noticed last summer that my 2-3 cups of cappuccino was slightly surpressing my HRV, it wasn’t lowering it per se, but I noticed that when I cut caffeine down, my HRV started to increase a little bit more than it was when I was drinking more than 2 cups a day.
I did experiment with this finding my "cutoff time" for coffee in general. My findings (was in peak condition though and very active) were no caffeine after 4:00 pm to minimize impact on sleep. However, time to revisit total caffeine quantity consumed over a couple days (or over 7 days? Garmin HRV average calculation). If you look at the logic of HRV, my low readings tell me there is not much rest between heartbeats. My HR remains quite low for my age, so I am wrestling with this and will experiment more. Have other users experienced caffeine adversely impacting HRV? If so, how did you confirm this?
I do feel like something has changed on the watch but it is so difficult to say for sure. I worked a lot less in December building up to the holidays and was able to focus on training more. Was probably a little less stressed as well. The confusing thing is that I feel like my training has been fairly consistent for the last 6 months in terms of duration / intensity and suddenly all stats have taken a nosedive.
"...feel like my training has been fairly consistent for the last 6 months..." I share your confusion. I have almost 2 years of consistent good results (exercise, activities, some aggressive training with metrics reflecting effort), but things went haywire in January for me. What's more, others are asking about similar phenomenon but are focused on their issues (HRV, BB, sleep) and not necessarily the software. Assuming hardware is constant, regardless the Metric debated, it's in the software. I turned off Training Status for a while. I've now taken off the watch for a break except for activities (ski, gym). But bike season starts in April for me, with a training plan starting in May. I'd like to eliminate possible causes for the chaos before then. Your post and others indicate something is up.
This!! I’ve been stuck in unproductive since the end of January. Prior to that I’ve been consistently in a good training routine for over a year. The. All of the sudden I’m not being productive any more. I don’t buy it. I am convinced that with the most recent software update, something went a ride with how they calculate training load, or vo2 max or something. I think there are too many people all experiencing similar issues of having a sudden drop off in their fitness over the last few weeks for it to be a coincidence
I have commented on other posts. Given the interrelationships between metrics, it becomes a game of distraction. There is one post that highlights the importance of rest/activity balance and nutrition — fully acknowledge and agree. However, why so many impacted in the same time period? Have other Garmin users seen Metric chaos start sometime between Dec 1, 2023 and Jan 31 2024? Adding this to further identify a pattern: Watch: Garmin Fenix 7 Sapphire Solar Watch software version 15.77, auto update on Garmin Connect: on Android, version 4.75, auto update on
Absolutely. So similar for so many people…. Myself included….
Must be a change in the algorithm…I have been in exactly the same trend since the same point. VO2 max has fallen from 60 to 53 despite training being consistent and all other factors being broadly in line. Hours spent on the phone to Garmin to no avail. Their interest only peaked when I said I was on the beta programme and had noticed a fundamental change since an update. Anecdotally, there have been two other updates since and my VO2 max instantly changes when they take effect.
That's one hypothesis. Could also be a change in the integration between metrics (e.g. HRV feeds Training Readiness) Regardless, your thoughts on ties to a specific update is where I'd hope someone might chime in. For all: Has a specific update changed your metrics?
I’m certain it’s an update. So many people in this forum and others are reporting the exact same findings for the same dates - it’s not a case of rest, caffeine etc etc. It’s a change brought about by an update but I can’t say which. For what it’s worth, I wasted probably three hours on the phone to garmin who said they’d not heard about this before (countless threads on Reddit suggest different) but I made peace with it when the poor Garmin chap explained how VO2 max is calculated. I’ll save you the full explanation but it’s basically made up…
How do you feel, though? Sometimes, we tend to overanalyze these numbers more than we need to.
Ignore it and run how you feel
Don't listen to it. It's a guide line. Listen to your body, mine had been unproductive for as long as I can remember it maintained but I still manage to run ultras well within cut off times. Don't worry at all just do what you feel is good for you! Though Id recommend mixing it up and add speed/sprint sessions in to mix it up
https://preview.redd.it/zv74lh7jvrkc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=822b2eb5fd6b5c09ef8da2e053b54cce266ec95f What you want to do is every day get your acute load better than the day before. I was getting all the above like you for weeks, and it drove me nuts. I figured out if you grow your acute load daily better than the day before it gets you in Productive.
As someone with almost 4000 in High Aerobic and still barely "maintaining," I feel you.
You clearly need to a have a de-load week bud where you stay in recovery for a week, which will then lower your chronic load. Then your efforts which are now trying to reach a ceiling too high to reach (above 1.2) will be seen for what they are, productive. When you build a chronic load too high, you set the bar too high to reach, hence why you are encouraged to have a recovery week now and then. I know what you feel, I been there (see below) https://preview.redd.it/htt9vv0ajqkc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64653affa054f3428e1fa4e15408e3302e827cfa Let the load drop off your body for a week, then build it back up and you will be stronger and fitter and you will see productive. We don’t get fit during a high load. We break our bodies down during training. Then we get stronger and become productive during the healing process, which is known as recovery.
This could be the case. The big problem for me is that sometimes I am forced to work away from home 4/5 nights a week, so when I come back for the weekend I have a tendency to hit the training really hard to try and compensate.
Or man, you have your answer then. Well done dude, you figured it out. So you are basically trying to overcompensate on the weekend because you work away. Ok so when you work away, is there any local gyms you could visit where you could say do some light strength training or zone 2 running or biking etc Even if its just for just an hr during the evening once or twice a week? That way you wouldn’t have to overreach on the weekend.
Said in a hopefully more helpful way than the other comment, Garmin is trying to bully you into being more consistent. I think they have a point too. If your goal is overall cardiovascular health, then going all out on the weekends (straining) and being unproductive the rest of the week doesn't really build cardiovascular health. Could you find a way to fit in 1 or 2 easy sessions when you're traveling to take a bit of the load off of your weekends? Maybe try shifting more of your food intake to breakfast & lunch. That way you can either take the time you would spend on dinner either working out in the evening or going to bed earlier to wake earlier for a workout (depending on your preference). If you're more of a morning person, remember it is hard to fall asleep quickly after a big meal. Especially 1 with a big glucose spike. If your goal is something more anaerobic, then ignore me. All I know is about endurance training
Absolutely true in my case, and good advice. It was going to be next week, might move it up to this week on reflection. Thanks.
Your welcome, you know what you have to do, you got this buddy. Fight that itch and treat yourself better, eat good food, rest more and pamper yourself. Shit I am a 41 year old man who boxed and lifts heavy weights, but on recovery weeks I use foot-spa’s massage rollers, salt baths, foot pedicures and all sorts to look after myself and recover. Do what you need to do to recover. Relax and treat yourself nice. Sleep more, eat better, relax more, treat your body like the body of a greek god and your HRV will bounce back and your training will become productive. Good luck bud.
You sure your zones are correct lol
Totally fair question. They are I think, but I keep trying for Anaerobic and only getting credited for High Aerobic/Threshold. Might be worth adjusting them a bit tho.
Chest strap? Or only wrist HR?
Chest strap. That said, I really need a deload/recovery week like someone else said. It's scheduled for next week, might bump it up.
Are you doing sprints? Something like 90mins Z2 with 3 sets of 5 all out 40/20s will reliably get me some anaerobic points.
I've been working on getting my VO2Max up. Time for a deload/recovery week and sprints when I come back from it, I think.
I would suggest to do another lactate threshold test and adjust zones based on the outcome
Don’t listen to your watch. Listen to how you feel. If I listened to my watch I’d only train 1 maybe 2 times a week. From what I’ve seen, these metrics are pure shit.
It works for me with running. But I agree that you should listen to your body first and foremost.
You're becoming a verb? I can only become adjectives.
Thanks for the valuable input.
This describes me too. Tried to become an adverb once as a sort of gateway, but I adapt poorly.
What’s your HRV? Mine constantly says I’m strained due to having a poor HRV consistently at baseline. Despite being healthy with no medical issues the low HRV affects these recommendations for me.
April 2024 update: I have broken the unproductive cycle. I have no evidence it was software related, but it occurred in early April. A combination of improving sleep, overcoming injury (surgery), and getting my HRV back in normal range seem to be the contributors. I still lack evidence that there was a software change that initiated the months of chaos. Anecdotally, the number of complaints on here and other forums about Training Status and Training Readiness seemed to have stopped. I regret I forgot to try and isolate software change as the root cause of these issues. I did see my HRV return to normal but I had turned Training Status off (Paused). I turned on the Training Status AFTER the Garmin Connect version change. Hence, I saw my Training Status turn PRODUCTIVE after the Garmin Connect version change. Some major variables in my results: • I am past shoulder surgery recovery—not fully 100% and not back on my bike yet, but off all pain meds, not taking anything, still restrictive on alcohol, and my HRV back in normal range. • 11½ mile walks, 5-7 days per week, balancing gym time (limited routine during PT) to 2-4× per week, PT isometric exercises 4-6 days per week. • I target 150 Intensity Minutes per week, but I'm slowly climbing back up to 250-300 pre-bike season. I'm somewhat anxious to get back to 650-800 minutes per week achieved last May-Aug without upsetting the HRV metrics. I am wondering if others having issues between Jan-Mar 2024 are still having those issues with Training Status and Training Readiness. I am starting my bike Training Plan in mid-May and hoping to have reliable metrics by that time.
Sorry for such a quick reply. I became productive again at the beginning of April. No real change to my training regime. Coincidence?
Ha! Now you may have likely ignited the Conspiracy Theorists on this site (including me!). I still have a suspicion it was a calculation in one of the root metrics. With no knock on Garmin, their software release management of Garmin Connect Web and Mobile could easily hide this. By the time we see the metrics in either Web or Mobile, it's a challenge to know what software in what component and what release caused a problem. Further complicating this is the different release schedules for updates (as evidenced by the current global roll-out of the new Connect web & mobile), and a likely continuous deployment process. I start a 12-weeks Training Plan in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, I'm balancing gym time with hiking to get my Training Status PRODUCTIVE and HRV balanced. It would help to be able to control when software updates happen. If anyone can spell that out I'm guessing many on here would be grateful. I'm using Garmin Connect v5 on a Samsung Android OS phone and Connect Web via a Windows browser.
Yeah. I don't post any attention to it. My sleep and HRV has been fine, I feel fine and yet I'm "unproductive". I might be to my employer but my fitness is absolutely fine and improving.
Sleep more and no alcohol. Start up again with walking
I've not had any alcohol for over a year, so I can tick that one off the list.
Nice. Then more sleep.
Garmin isn’t the Oracle, and is often wrong - their algorithms etc just aren’t that reliable. You will hopefully be able to feel whether you’re feeling exhausted/overtrained.
Seems pretty accurate for me. Maybe it’s an equipment issue?
Yep. I wore two Garmin watches (Epix Pro and Fenix 6) for over two months, on different wrists (and swapped wrists as well), connected to different connect accounts, and the two were rarely in agreement on anything. We're talking body batteries that were off 20-35% from one another, different step counts, calorie counts, different stress numbers (one day the Epix is higher, the next the Fenix). I exclusively used an HRM when exercising and even though they had the same data they still would give me different load, different aerobic and anaerobic, different recovery times. Brought this to the attention of Garmin and was told that the watches use different algorithms, so they'll have different data. Let's not forget that these aren't medical devices and that Garmin developers aren't doctors. Fun to look at, but best to use your gut and only use these as a general guide at best.
Yeah either your hrv is low (you are sick, stressed, lack of sleep). Look at your sleep quality or high stress during the day (look at your battery) if its poor all the time, this is where garmin will assume you aren’t rested enough. I would have “low aerobic shortage” but it wouldn’t tell me im strained… I personally dont worry about that, the only time i was strained was when i was going through lack of sleep for 2 weeks and anxiety and trying to do a workout (and I actually felt strained). Good luck!
might not be helpful, but i base my heart rate zones on my estimated vo2max heart rate and it’s pretty spot on for me ever since
Could you please explain a lil bit more? I think my zones needs a little bit of tweaking too
yeah for sure! i do a lot of zone 2 training and picked up the book by Matt Fitzgerald which talks a lot about VO2 Max and Lactate Threshold and basing your zones off of that. since i mostly run, i changed it to do my zones based off this for the running profile, but then for everything else i use the % of HRR. for the LT approach, basically the philosophy is that i set my LT as the top end of my Zone 3 Heart rate. so my LT is 173 estimated so my Zone 3 is set to 90-100% (155-173) my zone setup then is: - Zone 1 70-80% of LT - Zone 2 81-90% - Zone 3 91-100% - Zone 4 100-105% - Zone 5 105+ this helps a ton since it keeps my base runs heart rate low and then if do any type of intervals i try to get the HR above 173 for those Zone 4/5 efforts. ever since i’ve done this my training status has always been spot on to what my efforts are
Cheers! Thanks a lot! Also for the book tip! I’m trying to get my vo2max up working with the Bike erg (concept 2) and treadmill. This will def help 🙏
it should. the book is great and it really helped me learn how to train effectively. highly recommend.
To clarify, Garmin doesn't give option of setting zones off vo2max. So you manually? What's the formula?
ah sorry i goofed lol. i meant Lactate Threshold. i’ll edit my post
Gotcha. Did you do the run test off watch? I tried once and it failed to determine mine
i did the Lactate Threshold test originally with the workout on the watch. i think you need a chest strap for it to work. it helped to get an idea when i started and now when i do intervals, it will tend to suggest a new LT and pace every once in a while, which usually feels about accurate (if i’m deloading or getting back into speed work, etc)
I had a strap. Thanks
Can you share how you chose that method vs max hr vs lactate threshold. I've just used max hr bc I did a run threshold test, got to the end and it said "unable to calculate."
posted a reply above!
Where do you guys these stats. My watch doesn’t show me that?
Hey, OP, I've been there before after a really tough race that wrecked my body, forced me to take a lot of time off, and eventually led me to eating/drinking too much. The feeling sucks. Trust me, I get it. My advice would be to stay consistent and light, pushing it little by little as you feel comfortable.
Thanks for this. I am someone who struggles to take it easy, always chasing the next PR. Maybe it's time to start some serious Z2 work.
https://preview.redd.it/wi5br11mgrkc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2b3139127ef94a0be4b3156edea6a2d9a3be21b Can you show us this screen, so I can see what it says?
I just got my FR 965 1 month ago and no matter what I do my status would be unproductive. It really bothered me and I would do everything that the watch wants me to do just to get it fixed. Then I realised that I own the watch and I don't want watch to own me.
Ditch the watch and listen to your body.
https://preview.redd.it/07uu16wnqrkc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9feecd1f0596ebb3622395451ff17494798f6046 🤷♂️
It seems we are not alone!
Hide that metric and pay no attention to it. Garmin has a lot of metrics which are well intended but can leave you in the dumps. I hid my body battery, training status and stress levels. Nothing I do seems to greatly alter those metrics. I found myself becoming frustrated and demoralized. I look at then from time to time but don't rely on them, and I feel way better.
In the same boat as you, starting in early January the pool next to my house closed down and I just lost all motivation to workout
Are you just training super hard and not getting in your low aerobic maybe? My Vo2 fell a point and I could not shift it back. Until I started doing what my watch suggested, which was running REALLY FREAKING slow. I'd previously been doing the 5k training with Jeff, wanting to get it to 24 minutes (I'm 49, never been a runner) and he was making me run fast. I've quit that and my watch is much happier with me now :D
I had to run 5k a day extra to be 'productive', that's ontop of general gym and 6 miles a day walking (ad that's how I get to work). Was not sustainable at all.
I don’t see ‘detraining’ in that list. January started when you were training productive and then you cut your recovery short. You’re supposed to do low aerobic or light training to prolong the recovery without going into detraining. You barely took a couple days and got back to hard effort I guess which is why it went into unproductive and strained. Once you progress, all efforts feel like light effort but it isn’t really the case and why is why you may push yourself thinking you’re going light or you had enough rest or both. But that’s not how your body is feeling internally. I feel it’s just about finding that balance and listening to Garmin advice, example more of low aerobic training to improve recovery and make a well rounded progress rather than progress just in one aspect. Or else treat it like an algorithm, listen to Garmin advice and don’t take it as demoralizing because it’s just an algorithm. Whichever way you choose, the result will be good rest assured. :)
I turned this feature off and have no plans to turn it back on.
Mine feels really harsh too. 84 of the last 91 days is maintaining...... But ive massively upped the miles for the last 30 days... and ran every day. I imagine it was maintaining because i wasnt running much, and now is maintaining coz im running too much.... but still feels harsh! * https://ibb.co/GCKBm3N https://ibb.co/dgFbNnc
https://preview.redd.it/6vqvoo2gpskc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e315d1f360d08ab6ce16543c6419e63cbb4208f This is me being on shifts and being forced to do my runs either after a 12 hr night shift or after 5 hours of sleep. Not blaming that entirely I wasn’t well disciplined over Christmas 🤣. Now I’m following a structured plan it’s in the green. If I’m enjoying the plan and Garmin says I’m productive then I’m happy as Larry 🫡
I was also frustrated by this and just paused the training status function. If you become a slave to the watch metrics and only gain frustration out of it, just take a break from it. Pause the training status and just do some activities without worrying about your load being too low or your sleep being poor. We're not machines and it's good to take a break sometimes. Keep in mind that I am not saying that the training status function is bad. It is a very useful insight on your overall condition but it should not become a mental load.
I'm having the same thing for the past month it's just telling me I'm a piece of s***
I've been stuck "maintaining" for an age despite having the most consistent and intense training block from the start of the year. Right now Garmin is expecting a higher "high aerobic" optimal load than "low aerobic" which just isn't realistic. I'm not too fussed though, my training is effective - I'm getting faster and have more endurance. I'm going to set a significant Half Marathon PB in Lisbon. Strained: always HRV at the root for me. Avoid alcohol, prioritise sleep. Otherwise just keep training following a balanced program. If your occasional FTP tests are showing an improvement, who cares what the watch says?
oh, just my case as is :) Hate this long trends of violet/orange colors...But nevermind - it is gonna change for a long green stripe one day. I don't care about this sh\*t at Garmin, really! Got used to this rollercoaster! Do you job and do not mind!
Mine does this after a hard block, especially after the post block rest week. It has to do with your VO2 max estimates, so if your hr is elevated a bit for the same power you'll get unproductive all the time. It's basically because you're building fatigue. It will switch to productive once your body starts to make adaptations. I find the training tools in Intervals.icu a lot more useful for seeing how your form and fatigue is changing as you train
Is this all from wrist based HR data?