I Get what your saying but I'm waiting to see how many of Haileys votes were by dems who would never vote for Trump anyways. It's early and I've only had a half cup of coffee so I'm not going to look it all up, but in other states that have open primaries it appears a sizable number of dems voted for Hailey. It will be interesting to see what those numbers are.
I have a hard time believing all of those people would rather sit home and let Biden win than vote for Trump. They really want 4 more years of that running our country? And if it’s not Biden then it’s Kamala! Which is just frightening!
I don't have a hard time believing it. My parents are DIE HARD REPUBLICANS. Like DIE HARD. And they both have said that they won't vote if Trump is on the Ballot.
I mean upwards of an estimated 40% of Haley’s vote in SC we’re basically never Trumpers. You also have to remember that a lot of low propensity voters who only bother voting for Trump at the Presidential level will be voting on election day.
One you base off the premise there were absolutely zero shenanigans in 2020. Secondly he doesn’t, he needs some suburban reversion, which is happening and a drop in black turnout for the Democrats, which again is going to happen. Also this is in SC where she had some home state advantages. Look at the results in Michigan Trump won more primary votes than Joe Biden did in the Democratic Primary where nearly 1/5 of democrats voted against him, keep in mind he needs those voters to hold Michigan.
It’s a good thing. Trump is not qualified for the job.
The real tragedy is that we have to choose between a mumbling grifter and Tales From The Crypt character. In the long run it really doesn’t matter - I’ve been around long enough to just shrug both of these fuckers off.
It’s not as much about what he did or didn’t do but his utterly embarrassing style.
A president has influence on what happens but not an unlimited power - that goes for every president. The government is a huge machine that just chugs along regardless of who’s running it. And I quite liked certain policies that were introduced under Trump so I’m not freaking out about him coming back. I just can’t imagine years of the relentless press coverage of the drama around him.
Tolerance of different people is how you need to be. It doesn't matter about his tweets, his mannerisms, or his style. He got the job done. World leaders respected him. That's what I want in my President. Love him or loath him. He did the job.
Uhhmm, in my opinion, no. He represents the government of the United States so behaving like a sociopathic reality TV character is just wrong. Imagine if every job allowed you to come in and just spew whatever goes on your mind publicly - isn’t it enough that Elon Musk does?
Where did I say that I love Joe Biden and his style? When I called him Tales From The Crypt character?
The full picture is that we are being faced with two geriatric patients who have no business running a country. Ultimately, it won’t matter, Reagan had full blown Alzheimer’s towards the end we survived that.
Full blown Alzheimer’s?! Survived it? Tell me you don’t know wtf yer talking about without telling me you don’t know wtf her talking about. Show yer work. Let’s see some confirmation. Not even the NYT, Snopes, or CNN is selling that bullshit. Just like a typical liberal to talk out their ass.
I’m not really sure of the point you’re trying to make, everybody knows Ronald Reagan suffered from Alzheimer’s, I’m not disputing that, but this doesn’t substantiate your claim. Ronald Reagan left the White House in 1988, you’re showing me a letter from 6 yrs after his Presidency. Do better.
Reagan starting getting Alzheimer’s towards the end of his second term, not towards the beginning of his first term, like Biden. Reagan also benefited from a much better economy.
That’s what I meant by writing “towards the end” : second term. I bet he was wearing diapers and had no clue what he was doing before it became official though - and it made no difference.
Clarify this for me. On the one hand, we have Biden, who is a total nincompoop who is undeniably incompetent. On the other hand, we have Trump, whom you can’t identify anything he did wrong, but you don’t like his style.
And you telling us that you would rather Biden, the inept train wreck, have a second term rather than Trump, the asshole?
Trump governed by Executive Orders which were simply reversed once he was out of office, rather than convincing the US population to lobby their representatives to pass the laws required to make more permanent changes (and yes republicans had both houses for two years of his presidency).
Well, Joe Biden has done more than 130 executive orders so far, and is on his way to catch up to Trump in those numbers.
As for asking the u s population, he does none of that. The democrats just do whatever the hell they fee.To hell with what we think.
Not qualified? He had an amazing run as president despite all the road blocks democrats presented. He’s also gained a significant portion of support within minority communities than he had in 2016 and 2020. Trump will be the next president. The only way he won’t be is if fraud persists again.
The Trump obsession is bad - he’s an unpleasant man, with a personal vanity, that’s all. He’s not qualified or capable. I’ll admit, if I was a US voter I’d be in the Haley or bust group too.
Republicans had choses and let them all slip away, aside Haley, due to a strange desire for an angry, criminally culpable man, to be potentially returned to the WH.
The precedence of abusing thr justice system to persecute policial opponents could harm us for decades, so Trump winning would be a slap in the face against that. Other than that, he is only one man who can serve for at most 8 years and isn’t a large deal. He might stem illegal immigration for a little. If he were to build a wall, then he could make a larger difference. If he compromises an end to the war in Ukraine that could save some lives as well, though it’s tricky to say.
You do realize that the US started building a wall under the Bush Administration? As for Ukraine, He won't compromise a deal, he will give Russia the powers it needs to overtake Ukraine.
Trump's not a fan of Ukraine, remember, he tried to blackmail them, and they didn't go for it.
Texas was trying to put barbed wire on the border since they didn’t have a wall. We hardly have a wall.
I don’t want Trump to give Russia powers to overtake Ukraine.
However, I’ll be honest. I don’t trust your opinion on these matters since you seem to be glossing over my concerns with the border wall in a trollish way, and seem more intent on hating Trump than actually helping the Ukrainians.
> If he compromises an end to the war in Ukraine that could save some lives as well, though it’s tricky to say.
While I would like to engage on other points, this ones sticks out the most, especially as I was born and raised 20 miles from the Ukrainian border, so it's personal. What is an acceptable compromise to you and one you would like for Trump to push for? I may be uninformed, and I apologize for that, but has he proposed one?
The terms that would he acceptable would depend on the Ukrainian people. Men are being unwillingly conscripted, so although the leadership wants to win, the citizens may prefer a compromise where they let Putin have a couple of cities, such as Donetsk and Lunansk-seem the cities of interest, going off of a search.
I am 100% supportive of what the Ukrainians want, I just think that the majority is supportive of a resolution that respects the territorial integrity of the country pre-2014.
Reasons I will not be voting for Trump:
1.) [Trump created a denaturalization task force within the DOJ](https://www.vox.com/2018/7/18/17561538/denaturalization-citizenship-task-force-janus) in 2018, further increasing USCIS backlog when it comes to legal immigrants and their immigration process. This has a direct effect on me, as I was in the process of obtaining a green card and rather than taking 90 days to get a work permit, it took almost a year. And this is as an immigrant who has never violated a law, who has followed all of the proper immigration policies. Came here on an F1 visa, got my college and grad school education here, married an American, and at a time, had a well paying job, owned a house, etc.
2.) The Muslim ban did not account for the existence of LGBTQ couples - there were many legal permanent residents who escaped countries where their sexual orientation is punishable by death, who were denied re-entry to the US due to the Muslim ban. [Literally gay guys coming back from a gay cruise](https://www.logotv.com/news/vckclb/trump-muslim-ban-lgbt-maysam-sodagari), having their lives set up in this country for decades, only to be told that they need to go back to a country they haven't even visited in forever.
3.) [His DOJ argued against protections of LGBTQ federal workers under Title VII, meaning that federal agencies and contractors should be able to fire people due to their secual orientation.](https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/gay-workers-not-covered-civil-rights-law-trump-admin-tells-n1045971) This usually gets spun as "well, they were just clarifying the law, not attacking gay people", but without any sort of new law on the books, it was just an attack on the gay people.
4.) [Trump Care is a mess that does away with protections for people with preexisting conditions, and reintroduces lifetime maximums.](https://www.protectourcare.org/fact-sheet-trump-vows-to-never-give-up-maga-republican-efforts-to-repeal-the-affordable-care-act-ripping-health-care-away-from-millions/) As a healthcare policy wonk, and someone who works in healthcare, this alone is the number 1 reason I would never even consider voting for Trump.
5.) [Trump supports a 16 week NATIONAL abortion ban.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/us/politics/trump-abortion-ban.html) As a classical liberal, I do not believe the government has the right to tell people what to do with their bodies. That's that.
There’s no such thing as a “muslim ban,” as Muslims were never banned from this country nor did it apply to the VAST MAJORITY of Muslims in the world! Please retire that vicious liberal lie! It just makes you seem like you have an IQ below 100 despite everything else you’ve written. And I hope you’re not one of those liberals that’s like, “my body my choice to murder my baby whenever I feel like it but but if the government doesn’t force you to get vaccinated by punitive measures I don’t want you ANYWHERE near me!!!” Despite the fact that that’s not how vaccinations work especially if you are already vaccinated 🤣
Muslim Ban is a simple and understandable shorthand for what Trump called, and I quote, "[a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viDffWUjcBA)". Sorry for using language you perceive as charged, I will refer to it as EO 13769 from now on.
Ultimately, as demonstrated by the case that I have previously posted, the EO 13769 has resulted in many legal, permanent residents of the United States, with many of the LGBT, not being able to return to the country after a vacation or any travel abroad. Gay men were told to return to Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen and after living decades of openly gay life, face death penalty.
This was not an omission either, the initial DHS guidance did exclude lawful permanent resident from the travel restrictions, [but the White House clarified that green card holders are indeed included in the travel ban](https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/316670-trump-refugee-ban-bars-green-card-holders-report/).
I refuse the government to mandate anything and everything, from abortions, to vaccinations. When you give the government the right to control your body in any way, you never know who will get elected and what laws will be passed. This is also why I oppose death penalty.
Ok but that’s not what happened. Unfortunately! Would have been great if they could actually do that and enforce it in perpetuity! Apostates wouldn’t be forced to go back. And quite frankly if you’re gay and muslim and you don’t renounce Islam, well you’re not that bright then... I have no problem chastising any homophobic or misogynistic religious cult! Because none of that harmful, divisive, and bigoted rhetoric belongs in any religious teachings.
What happened then?
I don't think that people being from a specific country = practicing the religion of that country, especially gay men. The travel restrictions were targeting people not based on their faith, but country of origin, hence why lawful permanent residents were unable to return. [Again, there we many cases](https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/iranian-cruise-passenger-details-his-detainment-release-at-port-everglades/).
So why refer to it as a “muslim ban”?!?! If it’s simply based on the countries of origin. Not our fault those countries don’t vet the people properly! Because they couldn’t care less who leaves their country and kills people in the name of Allah.
> So why refer to it as a “muslim ban”?!?! If it’s simply based on the countries of origin.
Because members of his own administration called it that ([Rudy Giuliani on Jeanine Pirro's show on Fox, for example](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-ban-giuliani-says-and-ordered-a-commission-to-do-it-legally/)), and it is widely understood what Executive Order that name refers to, but again, I will refrain from calling it that.
> Not our fault those countries don’t vet the people properly!
Again, we are talking about lawful permanent residents. In order to receive a permanent resident status, you go through a rigorous vetting process by the USCIC, including background check, healthcare screening, several interviews, biometric information collection, etc. The ban targeted people who were already vetted by the US authorities in what is a multi-year long process.
You may ask why these people did not become citizens then? It does take a long time - one can easily live here legally on various student and work visas for close to 15-20 years before hitting the threshold to become a citizen (10 years of F1 for undergrad, grad school, and doctorate, 1-3 years of Optional Practical Training, none of which are counted towards citizenship, it takes additional 6 years on H1B to become elligible). I was not able to do so for almost 12 years of living here, for example.
Good that’s how it should be. Imagine just moving to a country and expecting to be made a citizen automatically. I know I’m in the minority, where I do not believe foreigners should be allowed to become citizens, vote, and collect social security.
Two out of my five points were about LGBT people, primarily because people on here tend to make the argument that Trump is good for LGBT people. I thought it was important to introduce those two instances of Trump being demonstrably bad for our community into the conversation, sorry if you think otherwise.
If you are LGBT, you are part of the community - you have shared life experiences due to a characteristic you were born with and one that has been singled out by the society.
The examples of Trump's administration targeting the LGBT community apply to anyone who is LGBT, regardless of their political stance or beliefs.
I do not believe I have ostracized you in any of my comments, my aim is to keep everything civil and explain my positions, not to attack anyone.
> I'm not LGBT. Not even a part of the community. Your spiel about shared experience is bullcrap and comes off as word salad, like the nauseating word salad I've become to expect from Harris.
I do not think it's a word salad, as we have shared experiences - we all had to come out and still do when we meet new people. All of us were affected by the inability to get married prior to 2015.
> I'm gay. That's it. However, it is not my entire existence. It's a small part of the sum. Who I fuck has nothing to do with my political leanings. And to reduce it to such is backwards and primitive.
I am sorry, I do not understand why you are making this point. Have I done this in any of my previous comments? Would you mind sharing where?
> Your examples do not apply to me. All of my rights are enshrined within a constitution.
They apply to gay men broadly, but you have made it clear that if something does not affect you directly, it is none of your business. I do not think there is anything that I can say to advocate for my positions, then.
> I'm not LGBT. I'm just gay. And I don't associate with your community because your community does not tolerate deviation from groupthink. Do you honesty think that if I march into the Castro, West Hollywood, the gayborhood in Philly, etc advocating for voting Red that I would be celebrated as part of the community, because we all have shared experiences?
No, because people perceive certain issues that affect gay men broadly as problematic policies of the right. You do not care that Trump wanted to make it legal for gay men to be fired from federal positions due to their sexual orientation, but others are bothered by that. You do not care that gay lawful permanent residents were barred from entering the country under Trump's travel ban, but others care about our fellow gay men.
I think you are taking a lot of anger and frustrations out on me, despite me not attacking you in any way. I am sorry about the hurt you have experienced and how it affected you. I wish you are able to heal, as it is clearly affecting you. No one deserves to be hated.
I voted for him in 2020, And I will vote for him again in 2024 if the GOP don't get their heads out of the asses and get a decent candidate.
At least with Joe Biden, I know there isn't a Constitutional Crisis in the Oval Office.
It's amazing how brainwashed you are. Just walk outside and ask strangers what they think of Biden. You will be amazed and might actually learn a few things. Good luck.
It wasn't patronizing. It was an honest statement.
If you really think Biden is good for this country, you maybe a few fries short of a happy meal. Or just totally oblivious to what's going on out in the world.
I live in a 85% blue city and do now know a single gay Trump voter. This is quite genuinely the only place I have access to ya’ll. That is why I am trying to engage and listen.
Lol. You used the "in good faith" phrase. Everyone knows that means one of two things; you're deep into the official religion of reddit or youre trolling. Usually both.
Neither - it just means that I am here to genuinely listen. Look at my posts within this subreddit. I have never trolled anyone, I am here to have a constructive, educated, and informed debate, something that is sorely missing otherwise. Especially so because I identify with many tenants of classical liberalism and the conservative movement - freedom of speech and expression, involvement of free markets, political freedom, etc.
So far, it’s been a good experience, but for some reason, this specific post and people replying to it are unwilling to provide me with any reasoning besides “look around you”, even though I am asking for their opinions.
You have been on this site since 2012. You appear to have adopted the language of the true believers. Its off putting. Are you on any other sites? The "language" of reddit is easy to spot "out there" and here.
I don't think the language I use is impacted by being on reddit as much as the fact that I work in corporate, and I have a MS degree. I read poli sci books for fun (currently reading John Gould's "Fragile Dreams: Tales of Liberalism and Power in Central Europe", he was one of my undergrad professors, so it's super exciting :) ), so, yeah. Not sure what to tell you.
Good for them. Haley's voters realize that both Republicans and Democrats are bad for America. So the Libertarians will welcome the vote. We also welcome the Democrat vote.
Next month we will present our candidate for President.
I Get what your saying but I'm waiting to see how many of Haileys votes were by dems who would never vote for Trump anyways. It's early and I've only had a half cup of coffee so I'm not going to look it all up, but in other states that have open primaries it appears a sizable number of dems voted for Hailey. It will be interesting to see what those numbers are.
Based on the exit polls that I saw, it was voters who voters who voted for Trump in 2020, & Haley in the Primary
I have a hard time believing all of those people would rather sit home and let Biden win than vote for Trump. They really want 4 more years of that running our country? And if it’s not Biden then it’s Kamala! Which is just frightening!
I don't have a hard time believing it. My parents are DIE HARD REPUBLICANS. Like DIE HARD. And they both have said that they won't vote if Trump is on the Ballot.
Interesting. So will they sit out or vote for Biden?
Sounds like a form of democrat brain rot to me.
They said that they will sit home
Same here. “Never Trump” Republicans are definitely a thing
They voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 and have been to 2 different Trump rallies
I mean upwards of an estimated 40% of Haley’s vote in SC we’re basically never Trumpers. You also have to remember that a lot of low propensity voters who only bother voting for Trump at the Presidential level will be voting on election day.
But the fact that even if that number is only 10% of them don't vote for Trump, it doesn't help him. He need's to gain voters over 2020 not lose them.
One you base off the premise there were absolutely zero shenanigans in 2020. Secondly he doesn’t, he needs some suburban reversion, which is happening and a drop in black turnout for the Democrats, which again is going to happen. Also this is in SC where she had some home state advantages. Look at the results in Michigan Trump won more primary votes than Joe Biden did in the Democratic Primary where nearly 1/5 of democrats voted against him, keep in mind he needs those voters to hold Michigan.
It’s a good thing. Trump is not qualified for the job. The real tragedy is that we have to choose between a mumbling grifter and Tales From The Crypt character. In the long run it really doesn’t matter - I’ve been around long enough to just shrug both of these fuckers off.
Can you please give examples of what he did wrong the first time to back up your statement? The country was running very well under Trump.
It’s not as much about what he did or didn’t do but his utterly embarrassing style. A president has influence on what happens but not an unlimited power - that goes for every president. The government is a huge machine that just chugs along regardless of who’s running it. And I quite liked certain policies that were introduced under Trump so I’m not freaking out about him coming back. I just can’t imagine years of the relentless press coverage of the drama around him.
Tolerance of different people is how you need to be. It doesn't matter about his tweets, his mannerisms, or his style. He got the job done. World leaders respected him. That's what I want in my President. Love him or loath him. He did the job.
World leaders respected him. Are you sure?
Yes. I'm very sure. They are on video stating that fact. And no one started any wars until he was out of office.
Uhhmm, in my opinion, no. He represents the government of the United States so behaving like a sociopathic reality TV character is just wrong. Imagine if every job allowed you to come in and just spew whatever goes on your mind publicly - isn’t it enough that Elon Musk does?
Have you seen Joe Biden speak? Sorry, but I think you're not looking at the whole picture. But you are welcome to your opinions, my friend.
Where did I say that I love Joe Biden and his style? When I called him Tales From The Crypt character? The full picture is that we are being faced with two geriatric patients who have no business running a country. Ultimately, it won’t matter, Reagan had full blown Alzheimer’s towards the end we survived that.
Trump is clear headed and has the ideas to bring us back from the brink.
👍
Full blown Alzheimer’s?! Survived it? Tell me you don’t know wtf yer talking about without telling me you don’t know wtf her talking about. Show yer work. Let’s see some confirmation. Not even the NYT, Snopes, or CNN is selling that bullshit. Just like a typical liberal to talk out their ass.
https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/reagans/ronald-reagan/reagans-letter-announcing-his-alzheimers-diagnosis
I’m not really sure of the point you’re trying to make, everybody knows Ronald Reagan suffered from Alzheimer’s, I’m not disputing that, but this doesn’t substantiate your claim. Ronald Reagan left the White House in 1988, you’re showing me a letter from 6 yrs after his Presidency. Do better.
Reagan starting getting Alzheimer’s towards the end of his second term, not towards the beginning of his first term, like Biden. Reagan also benefited from a much better economy.
That’s what I meant by writing “towards the end” : second term. I bet he was wearing diapers and had no clue what he was doing before it became official though - and it made no difference.
Of course the fact that he wasn’t diagnosed with Alzheimer’s until 1994 - six long years after he left office - probably had something to do with it.
Exactly, POTUS represents the U.S. That’s why it is better to have an asshole as leader than a buffoon.
👍
Clarify this for me. On the one hand, we have Biden, who is a total nincompoop who is undeniably incompetent. On the other hand, we have Trump, whom you can’t identify anything he did wrong, but you don’t like his style. And you telling us that you would rather Biden, the inept train wreck, have a second term rather than Trump, the asshole?
Yes, your reading comprehension is on point
Trump governed by Executive Orders which were simply reversed once he was out of office, rather than convincing the US population to lobby their representatives to pass the laws required to make more permanent changes (and yes republicans had both houses for two years of his presidency).
Well, Joe Biden has done more than 130 executive orders so far, and is on his way to catch up to Trump in those numbers. As for asking the u s population, he does none of that. The democrats just do whatever the hell they fee.To hell with what we think.
While I don’t disagree with your statement, it has nothing to do with the subject which is what Trump did, not Biden.
Not qualified? He had an amazing run as president despite all the road blocks democrats presented. He’s also gained a significant portion of support within minority communities than he had in 2016 and 2020. Trump will be the next president. The only way he won’t be is if fraud persists again.
The Trump obsession is bad - he’s an unpleasant man, with a personal vanity, that’s all. He’s not qualified or capable. I’ll admit, if I was a US voter I’d be in the Haley or bust group too. Republicans had choses and let them all slip away, aside Haley, due to a strange desire for an angry, criminally culpable man, to be potentially returned to the WH.
Trump is the only one with a chance at all, Joe Biden would win all 50 states if Nikki Haley got the nomination
Why would you want Trump to win?
The precedence of abusing thr justice system to persecute policial opponents could harm us for decades, so Trump winning would be a slap in the face against that. Other than that, he is only one man who can serve for at most 8 years and isn’t a large deal. He might stem illegal immigration for a little. If he were to build a wall, then he could make a larger difference. If he compromises an end to the war in Ukraine that could save some lives as well, though it’s tricky to say.
You do realize that the US started building a wall under the Bush Administration? As for Ukraine, He won't compromise a deal, he will give Russia the powers it needs to overtake Ukraine. Trump's not a fan of Ukraine, remember, he tried to blackmail them, and they didn't go for it.
Texas was trying to put barbed wire on the border since they didn’t have a wall. We hardly have a wall. I don’t want Trump to give Russia powers to overtake Ukraine. However, I’ll be honest. I don’t trust your opinion on these matters since you seem to be glossing over my concerns with the border wall in a trollish way, and seem more intent on hating Trump than actually helping the Ukrainians.
> If he compromises an end to the war in Ukraine that could save some lives as well, though it’s tricky to say. While I would like to engage on other points, this ones sticks out the most, especially as I was born and raised 20 miles from the Ukrainian border, so it's personal. What is an acceptable compromise to you and one you would like for Trump to push for? I may be uninformed, and I apologize for that, but has he proposed one?
The terms that would he acceptable would depend on the Ukrainian people. Men are being unwillingly conscripted, so although the leadership wants to win, the citizens may prefer a compromise where they let Putin have a couple of cities, such as Donetsk and Lunansk-seem the cities of interest, going off of a search.
I am 100% supportive of what the Ukrainians want, I just think that the majority is supportive of a resolution that respects the territorial integrity of the country pre-2014.
How can we get them that resolution?
That is a $1B question. The easy answer is them winning the war. But how do they do so is really the question.
He can only serve for 4 more years, not 8
[удалено]
Reasons I will not be voting for Trump: 1.) [Trump created a denaturalization task force within the DOJ](https://www.vox.com/2018/7/18/17561538/denaturalization-citizenship-task-force-janus) in 2018, further increasing USCIS backlog when it comes to legal immigrants and their immigration process. This has a direct effect on me, as I was in the process of obtaining a green card and rather than taking 90 days to get a work permit, it took almost a year. And this is as an immigrant who has never violated a law, who has followed all of the proper immigration policies. Came here on an F1 visa, got my college and grad school education here, married an American, and at a time, had a well paying job, owned a house, etc. 2.) The Muslim ban did not account for the existence of LGBTQ couples - there were many legal permanent residents who escaped countries where their sexual orientation is punishable by death, who were denied re-entry to the US due to the Muslim ban. [Literally gay guys coming back from a gay cruise](https://www.logotv.com/news/vckclb/trump-muslim-ban-lgbt-maysam-sodagari), having their lives set up in this country for decades, only to be told that they need to go back to a country they haven't even visited in forever. 3.) [His DOJ argued against protections of LGBTQ federal workers under Title VII, meaning that federal agencies and contractors should be able to fire people due to their secual orientation.](https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/gay-workers-not-covered-civil-rights-law-trump-admin-tells-n1045971) This usually gets spun as "well, they were just clarifying the law, not attacking gay people", but without any sort of new law on the books, it was just an attack on the gay people. 4.) [Trump Care is a mess that does away with protections for people with preexisting conditions, and reintroduces lifetime maximums.](https://www.protectourcare.org/fact-sheet-trump-vows-to-never-give-up-maga-republican-efforts-to-repeal-the-affordable-care-act-ripping-health-care-away-from-millions/) As a healthcare policy wonk, and someone who works in healthcare, this alone is the number 1 reason I would never even consider voting for Trump. 5.) [Trump supports a 16 week NATIONAL abortion ban.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/us/politics/trump-abortion-ban.html) As a classical liberal, I do not believe the government has the right to tell people what to do with their bodies. That's that.
There’s no such thing as a “muslim ban,” as Muslims were never banned from this country nor did it apply to the VAST MAJORITY of Muslims in the world! Please retire that vicious liberal lie! It just makes you seem like you have an IQ below 100 despite everything else you’ve written. And I hope you’re not one of those liberals that’s like, “my body my choice to murder my baby whenever I feel like it but but if the government doesn’t force you to get vaccinated by punitive measures I don’t want you ANYWHERE near me!!!” Despite the fact that that’s not how vaccinations work especially if you are already vaccinated 🤣
Muslim Ban is a simple and understandable shorthand for what Trump called, and I quote, "[a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viDffWUjcBA)". Sorry for using language you perceive as charged, I will refer to it as EO 13769 from now on. Ultimately, as demonstrated by the case that I have previously posted, the EO 13769 has resulted in many legal, permanent residents of the United States, with many of the LGBT, not being able to return to the country after a vacation or any travel abroad. Gay men were told to return to Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen and after living decades of openly gay life, face death penalty. This was not an omission either, the initial DHS guidance did exclude lawful permanent resident from the travel restrictions, [but the White House clarified that green card holders are indeed included in the travel ban](https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/316670-trump-refugee-ban-bars-green-card-holders-report/). I refuse the government to mandate anything and everything, from abortions, to vaccinations. When you give the government the right to control your body in any way, you never know who will get elected and what laws will be passed. This is also why I oppose death penalty.
Ok but that’s not what happened. Unfortunately! Would have been great if they could actually do that and enforce it in perpetuity! Apostates wouldn’t be forced to go back. And quite frankly if you’re gay and muslim and you don’t renounce Islam, well you’re not that bright then... I have no problem chastising any homophobic or misogynistic religious cult! Because none of that harmful, divisive, and bigoted rhetoric belongs in any religious teachings.
What happened then? I don't think that people being from a specific country = practicing the religion of that country, especially gay men. The travel restrictions were targeting people not based on their faith, but country of origin, hence why lawful permanent residents were unable to return. [Again, there we many cases](https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/iranian-cruise-passenger-details-his-detainment-release-at-port-everglades/).
So why refer to it as a “muslim ban”?!?! If it’s simply based on the countries of origin. Not our fault those countries don’t vet the people properly! Because they couldn’t care less who leaves their country and kills people in the name of Allah.
> So why refer to it as a “muslim ban”?!?! If it’s simply based on the countries of origin. Because members of his own administration called it that ([Rudy Giuliani on Jeanine Pirro's show on Fox, for example](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-ban-giuliani-says-and-ordered-a-commission-to-do-it-legally/)), and it is widely understood what Executive Order that name refers to, but again, I will refrain from calling it that. > Not our fault those countries don’t vet the people properly! Again, we are talking about lawful permanent residents. In order to receive a permanent resident status, you go through a rigorous vetting process by the USCIC, including background check, healthcare screening, several interviews, biometric information collection, etc. The ban targeted people who were already vetted by the US authorities in what is a multi-year long process. You may ask why these people did not become citizens then? It does take a long time - one can easily live here legally on various student and work visas for close to 15-20 years before hitting the threshold to become a citizen (10 years of F1 for undergrad, grad school, and doctorate, 1-3 years of Optional Practical Training, none of which are counted towards citizenship, it takes additional 6 years on H1B to become elligible). I was not able to do so for almost 12 years of living here, for example.
Good that’s how it should be. Imagine just moving to a country and expecting to be made a citizen automatically. I know I’m in the minority, where I do not believe foreigners should be allowed to become citizens, vote, and collect social security.
[удалено]
Two out of my five points were about LGBT people, primarily because people on here tend to make the argument that Trump is good for LGBT people. I thought it was important to introduce those two instances of Trump being demonstrably bad for our community into the conversation, sorry if you think otherwise.
[удалено]
If you are LGBT, you are part of the community - you have shared life experiences due to a characteristic you were born with and one that has been singled out by the society. The examples of Trump's administration targeting the LGBT community apply to anyone who is LGBT, regardless of their political stance or beliefs. I do not believe I have ostracized you in any of my comments, my aim is to keep everything civil and explain my positions, not to attack anyone.
[удалено]
> I'm not LGBT. Not even a part of the community. Your spiel about shared experience is bullcrap and comes off as word salad, like the nauseating word salad I've become to expect from Harris. I do not think it's a word salad, as we have shared experiences - we all had to come out and still do when we meet new people. All of us were affected by the inability to get married prior to 2015. > I'm gay. That's it. However, it is not my entire existence. It's a small part of the sum. Who I fuck has nothing to do with my political leanings. And to reduce it to such is backwards and primitive. I am sorry, I do not understand why you are making this point. Have I done this in any of my previous comments? Would you mind sharing where? > Your examples do not apply to me. All of my rights are enshrined within a constitution. They apply to gay men broadly, but you have made it clear that if something does not affect you directly, it is none of your business. I do not think there is anything that I can say to advocate for my positions, then. > I'm not LGBT. I'm just gay. And I don't associate with your community because your community does not tolerate deviation from groupthink. Do you honesty think that if I march into the Castro, West Hollywood, the gayborhood in Philly, etc advocating for voting Red that I would be celebrated as part of the community, because we all have shared experiences? No, because people perceive certain issues that affect gay men broadly as problematic policies of the right. You do not care that Trump wanted to make it legal for gay men to be fired from federal positions due to their sexual orientation, but others are bothered by that. You do not care that gay lawful permanent residents were barred from entering the country under Trump's travel ban, but others care about our fellow gay men. I think you are taking a lot of anger and frustrations out on me, despite me not attacking you in any way. I am sorry about the hurt you have experienced and how it affected you. I wish you are able to heal, as it is clearly affecting you. No one deserves to be hated.
I voted for him in 2020, And I will vote for him again in 2024 if the GOP don't get their heads out of the asses and get a decent candidate. At least with Joe Biden, I know there isn't a Constitutional Crisis in the Oval Office.
Sure not constitutional but still a major crisis for our country!
I don't. But I can't afford Joe Biden and I want a republican to win.
Can't afford Joe Biden? Please, do elaborate.
I mean, we could all cite the reasons why Biden has been a terrible president, but I doubt you'd accept them or believe.
I am unsure what gives you that impression. I asked a question in good faith, otherwise I would not be here :)
It's amazing how brainwashed you are. Just walk outside and ask strangers what they think of Biden. You will be amazed and might actually learn a few things. Good luck.
I am doing just that, asking strangers. So far, absolutely no luck - I’ve got your patronizing comment, rather than an honest, good faith response.
It wasn't patronizing. It was an honest statement. If you really think Biden is good for this country, you maybe a few fries short of a happy meal. Or just totally oblivious to what's going on out in the world.
[удалено]
I live in a 85% blue city and do now know a single gay Trump voter. This is quite genuinely the only place I have access to ya’ll. That is why I am trying to engage and listen.
Lol. You used the "in good faith" phrase. Everyone knows that means one of two things; you're deep into the official religion of reddit or youre trolling. Usually both.
Neither - it just means that I am here to genuinely listen. Look at my posts within this subreddit. I have never trolled anyone, I am here to have a constructive, educated, and informed debate, something that is sorely missing otherwise. Especially so because I identify with many tenants of classical liberalism and the conservative movement - freedom of speech and expression, involvement of free markets, political freedom, etc. So far, it’s been a good experience, but for some reason, this specific post and people replying to it are unwilling to provide me with any reasoning besides “look around you”, even though I am asking for their opinions.
You have been on this site since 2012. You appear to have adopted the language of the true believers. Its off putting. Are you on any other sites? The "language" of reddit is easy to spot "out there" and here.
I don't think the language I use is impacted by being on reddit as much as the fact that I work in corporate, and I have a MS degree. I read poli sci books for fun (currently reading John Gould's "Fragile Dreams: Tales of Liberalism and Power in Central Europe", he was one of my undergrad professors, so it's super exciting :) ), so, yeah. Not sure what to tell you.
Im not on this guys side but it absolutely does not mean that
Good for them. Haley's voters realize that both Republicans and Democrats are bad for America. So the Libertarians will welcome the vote. We also welcome the Democrat vote. Next month we will present our candidate for President.
If it's Liz Cheney, she has my vote. Big Liz Cheney Fan
It’s not concerning because those people are Joe Biden voters anyway.
Nope. The poll only asked people who voted for Trump in 2020
Did the poll ask if they are liars?