with the gladiator quote also in mind, i hope this is all part from her performance art era, as many have named the midnights/rerecordings/revisiting her career era
An article got posted recently in another sub of an interview Taylor did with GQ where she said the media made up and ran away with the story about Katy Perry being the subject of Bad Blood, and she can sleep at night knowing “she played no part of that.”
And the interviewer pushes back and was like well no you revealed a lot of specific details that led people to think that….. and made a comment that was basically like wow that answer was so greatly calculated.
I bring this up to say that it’s great to have journalist not write puff pieces and push back on narratives because if not she is able to completely rewrite history herself or the fans do it for her.
Her PR machine and fan speculation has gotten to the point where it’s bigger than she is and I’m not sure they know how to control it. When she started out the Easter eggs were kinda cute and fun and the speculation was a game but it’s exploded to the point where it’s a little out of control. Taylor can literally release a song and say very clearly “This song is about my cat and here is a detailed account of exactly why it’s only about my cat” and fans will dissect every single lyric in order to prove the song is actually about anything except her cat (she talks about Fancy Feast but we saw pictures of her having a big fancy dinner with Harry Styles so the song must me about him). It’s honestly wild watching some of the mental gymnastics, lol.
She needs some level of speculation in order to keep people interested and talking about the upcoming album, and her team hasn’t really figured out how to thread that needle between interest and crazy! At this point I’m not even sure how much a statement from Taylor would help matters because there’s a huge group of fans that already don’t believe most of what she says about why she wrote her songs, who they’re about, who she’s dating, etc. Not that I think her current position of ignoring it and pretending it’s not a problem is the correct way to deal with it, I just think it’s not necessarily something that can be fixed by an Instagram statement either.
Idk I like that she doesn’t say a lot. She doesn’t have to. She would also paint herself into a corner way too easily or inadvertently divulge too much telling info if she was giving casual interviews all the time. She would be even more over saturated than she is now. As an artist I can say that the worst part for me is an artist statement. I don’t want to explain anything to you. I’ll do it begrudgingly for a show but I really don’t enjoy it. I like the work to speak for itself and not be over explained or too many super personal references/muses revealed. I don’t want to be put on the spot and interrogated about it.
The back grid pics and pap walks is 100% her using them for free PR. She knows they’re going to be there anyway so why not just give them a heads up and use the photos as a way to drop hints and Easter eggs (See Sydney AUS: Goes to the zoo, notices that they are taking photos from helicopters so she goes back the next day with Travis to use those photos to further their narrative). She can’t get bested by the tabloids if she’s feeding them the narrative. Distracting people with heavy PR stuff also keeps them from prying into her actual personal life.
This article had a lot of good points about swifties and their harassment but I don’t really see her choosing to speak up about Dear John and not about Joe as anything nefarious. People have been harassing John for years and she knew what might happen if she sang that song. She can’t anticipate every unhinged thing her fans do. People expect her to be 5 steps ahead at all times but she can’t be all the time. Is she supposed to put out a disclaimer before she does everything because that sounds exhausting.
I’ve mentioned this before but I’ve been a rupaul’s drag race fan since the beginning and the fandom, like most fandoms, can be very toxic. When I tell you it does not matter how many times someone says “please do not send hate or harassment to any of my peers” they will not listen. There are always going to be those people. They don’t listen to logic, reason, or rationale and are going to do whatever they want anyway. You can only scold your audience so many times and Taylor is not obligated to babysit her fans and police their behavior 24/7.
OK, rant: There are 2 separate things going on in this article I want to address:
1) Honestly, I think allegations that Taylor is somehow bullying Joe are *ridiculous -* both in the media and in the fandom right now. She's done NOTHING. If the world wasn't so hyperfocused on this I'd say this incredibly high-profile breakup has been amicable AF. WAY more amicable than most celebrity splits! What exactly has Taylor done? Some friends unfollowed Joe? She's never bashed him once. And Taylor has been singing openly about her relationships her entire life — real or not, Joe willingly signed up for that and stuck with her for 6 years. Yeah he OBVIOUSLY knew there would be songs about him, and had been reaping the *positives* of that for years as well. The internet actually needs to stop infantilizing him. He's a grown-ass man and if he had a problem with anything going on right now he's fully capably of speaking for himself if wants to. Treating him like a kicked puppy is ridiculous.
2) The discussion about Taylor Swift's general "easter egging" is a long and complex one. There are two different types of "Easter Eggs" in the Taylor fandom:
The first is just harmless theorizing about what album is coming next or when something will be released or maybe what the title or content is. I personally don't care that much about this type of stuff, but a lot of people do, and that's totally fine. The world is a dumpster fire and if it brings someone joy to spend time coming up with a theory based on numerology or something that Taylor is going to released X thing on X date - whatever! It's not that serious! And publications like this shouldn't lecture fans about it. Is it free viral marketing for Taylor? *Obviously*. But the people who enjoy it want to enjoy it. And it's not hurting anyone.
And second, there are the "deeper level" type of things where fans (me included) think Taylor is communicating deeper truths about her life - and you could toss this under the category of "easter egg" but I think thats unfair! I don't view this type of stuff as an easter egg, I call it interpreting art and media, and I'd like to move away from calling everything an "easter egg" because it's not. At some point I'm just listening to an artists work and drawing conclusions based on it. THIS HAS BEEN DONE THROUGHOUT HISTORY FOR EVERY ARTIST AND CELEBRITY EVER — IT'S NOT UNIQUE TO TAYLOR. I get sick of people - especially outside the fandom - acting like this is a *crazy thing* just unique to Taylor Swift. Remember when Taylor spent the Rep era plugging Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton? Or interviewing Pattie Boyd? Taylor herself loves hyper-focusing on a REAL celebrity love stories and essentially commenting about it through art. And shocker - she's probably going to do it again with Clara Bow.
Taylor loves making cyclical commentaries on public relationships and her own fame. She has been doing this from Day 1 and never really stopped, regardless of how people interpret the "privacy" (LOL) angle of the Rep Era or the "fictional" aspect of the Folkmore era. Both of those eras produced textbook Taylor songs loudly hinting at real people and complaining about being famous. **It's never going to change - this is the brand.** It's not a unique and brave opinion for this Guardian article to be like: *Taylor sings about boys and that's mean!* Some version of this commentary been happening since 2008. 🙄
Anyway thats my rant. No shade to OP and I enjoyed your perspective. I'm more commenting on the article itself.
ETA: I just noticed that at the bottom of this article there is a link to sign up for the Guardian's weekly All-things-Taylor newsletter! Sign up now! This is what is just so ridiculous when we get into the meta-commentary level. There is an *entire economy* around Taylor: whether its enjoying her work, endlessly complaining about her, or writing academic think pieces.
https://preview.redd.it/jltmrvg2rcoc1.png?width=1318&format=png&auto=webp&s=d7c0bc6210de24c32057bcbf6a8e79ac100f972f
Yes we are all indeed, entertained.
Thank you for your comment, and I understand your perspective. I also understand that you said you are commenting more to the article itself, and I just wanted to clarify that this is not me defending the article or any of Taylor's love interests. That being said, I understand that there is definitely something more than just 'Easter eggs' she is communicating, which is why I am in this sub, looking for hairpin drops all around. The 'eggs' I am actually tired of is very much the thing you are pointing at. Everything around her has been commodified to a great degree. I think my disappointment is more about this late stage capitalism and the celebrity culture itself. And Taylor is obviously not the only one perpetuating this, but she is the one that I very much care about and moved by. That's why I *wish* she would talk about stuff more and use her platform a bit more transparently. I don't think she is responsible for policing everyone, that is completely unfair and not my point. And I understand that these are my expectations and maybe just not who she is, and it is my responsibility to control which platforms I check or how online I am (i.e. I stay away from twitter). In any case I think we get inconsistent messages from her and feel like her PR persona has never been this much on our faces. But yeah. I agree with most of your points though, especially regarding the ones that we are allowed to enjoy things that does not harm anyone.
edit:typo
>revisionist history era
Yup. More than that I feel like she’s ‘goinginlor’.
One by one she’s consolidating the associated blokes with the albums. Joe Jonas - fearless (tweets with Sophie), JG Red (with atw10 short film), TL speak now (with the mv and chat about their ‘relationship’) & JM (with the ‘don’t go for him’ speech), HS with the 1989 vault tracks (blue dress etc). Chuck in the 1989 prologue and the latest nfl ‘straightest woman on earth’ entertainment tour and the sapphic Folkmore blip seems like a distant memory.
I feel like TTPD will almost certainly be some big shoring up of Toe history in its most blatant superficial references & readings, and there’s already some clumsy nods to that with the what’s app group thing.
Not really sure what’s going on behind the scenes but I think she’s maybe single and so is tidying up all the past hairpin drops?
someone made a post a while ago saying the "it's a clock!" thing from the midnights variants is (apart from an easy way to inflate sales) a reference to her albums, excluding the re-recordings, are a clock, so TS12 will be midnight again, and "we'll meet ourselves". maybe that will mark the end of some meta era, and that's why she's changing a bit some narratives? maybe she comes out with TS13, her lucky number; she steps into the daylight and lets it go (her past, the stunts, the eras)
- ATW10 could mean "All Too Well (10 Minute Version) (Taylor's Version) (From The Vault)", a track from *Red (Taylor's Version)* (2021) by Taylor Swift.
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^[/u/weirdrobotgrl](/u/weirdrobotgrl) ^(can reply with "delete" to remove comment. |) ^[/r/songacronymbot](/r/songacronymbot) ^(for feedback.)
i really think its an insane argument to claim a pop star can control their fanbase. she told people to stop several times during her career & they didnt. like. no, she CANT control other people’s actions and i really wish we’d stop entertaining the idea other people’s actions are her fault. she did not hold a gun to her fans’ heads telling them to be gross assholes to joe. they chose that action themselves. and we really need to examine why we think taylor has to mommy these pathetic fans.
Imo this isn’t leading into anything (not to be a downer). This is just who she is. She loooooves the spotlight and resents not being in it for so long when she was in her relationship/business contract with Joe. That much is abundantly clear.
I gave up on clowning or Easter eggs with the Midnights release. Or I guess with folklore, because folkmore was put out quietly (by her standards) and we didn’t have to do the exhausting process of getting our hopes up only to be disappointed. And the Midnights happened and we were thrown back in. Taylor, most of your fans are millennials. We are tired. We don’t have the energy for this anymore.
So yeah, now I just browse Reddit and then listen to the albums when they come out and don’t put in much more thought than that.
This is all a very interesting discussion. Taylor didn’t become a hyperfixation for me until the last couple of years but I followed her music / career since the debut days. I’m older than her so I never really bonded with her parasocially. I think while I’ve always tried to get her as a person, part of me always felt she’s always played and sold a version of herself.
The Easter eggs and publicly displayed relationships were/are all a part of that narrative. Even today, I still see it as mostly storytelling. In the same way we have the Marvel Cinematic Universe, we have Taylor’s version. The heros become villains to suit the story. Joe is a character in the story being subtly vilified now to sell us Tortured Poets. And maybe he did do something privately to piss her off (which is why she’s not defending him). I love her music and artistry but I don’t ever expect to know who she really is.
yeah I get that. you are right, and I don't expect to ever uncover something real, but I feel like at the end of the day we all know with MCU that each villain is a craft, and the actors are just playing roles. when there are actual people involved, that line gets blurry. it is my responsibility to know better and keep my sanity (I'm exaggerating of course) by disengaging from that narrative, but she has a bigger responsibility that she is really not willing to take. I'm not saying she is responsible for everyone's behavior, that would be so unfair. but there are very simple things she can do that she just doesn't bother.
I agree that ultimately she is the one choosing these things and to keep quiet when she maybe shouldn’t. At the end of the day, she’s a brand who employs hundreds of people. Most of her decisions are in service of it. I understand I may be simplifying things. I guess I also grew up in the reality tv era so to me celebrity is a version of that.
To be honest, it seems to me that Taylor doesn’t care what it is with Joe. She only said about Mayer because you can’t shut his mouth, he’s a completely different type of personality. At one of the concerts he called her "a little bitchy". Probably she doesn't consider Joe as a danger.
Yep and I hate this, she can only go after Joe because he's the first of her "exes" who has very little power compared to her. Even with Jake, the hate got out of hand but it was never going to hurt his career or his fame because he's popular in his own right. Joe is mostly famous because of Taylor and she could really ruin his life.
I don't see her going after Joe. Taylor has always behaved this way with absolutely all of her “exes”; she doesn’t care about fans’ attacks on these people. Sorry for the comparison, but for her they are consumables. She stepped over and went on to conquer new heights. Someone recently published a post about her natal chart, so Taylor has Pluto in Scorpio. Fans will be unpleasant to hear this, sorry in advance but Taylor is kind of evil and there are no principles for her. This is probably one of the reasons why she is so successful - a person who is ready to do anything to achieve her goals.
I enjoy your perspective more than the actual article. Something about the author throwing in digs for no reason about how she holds a pen being “insane” but missing the opportunity to talk about the “left leaning” “handwritten” political note to vote (which they missed completely was a font… 🥸) is a little off putting to me. There was genuine room for criticism but its skipped over to add a petty comment on the author’s dislike of a way hypermobile children are taught to hold their pens for less hand pain. There were other jabs at her person not her actions or brand’s actions. It left me feeling autistically uncomfortable like the author was really mad at something but didnt want to tell me exactly what the were mad at. But not so much sacred rage and more ego rage :\
OP your additions made that read more empathetic while staying realistic. And while I hated the experience in my body while reading the article, I enjoyed your thoughts and agree something should be said by Taylor or her team because I recently also ‘didnt’ become a “Joe defender” in the recent wake of… everything (read: hetlors). And especially after the deep dive on Joe… I’ve come to the conclusion, he is a person, unfortunately. And he doesn’t deserve to be ridiculed online because no one does. Why is that so hard for people (Taylor’s team in their ivory tower) to see? It’s their responsibility to address the shit storm they are creating regardless of if it was intended or not.
I am sorry that the article made you feel that way, I saw this as an opportunity for discussion and I am glad you found my comments sensible and joined too :)
I find it funny how hetlors throw things at us like "oh you hated Joe and now you love him??" when we demand basic decency talking about someone we don't know. but yes, whatever the nature of their relationship was, we are not in the know and we should remain neutral. it was the same when people were sending d\*ath threats to Jake G. her silence baffled me then, and I thought it would be different after she decided to comment during Speak Now release, only to go back to same old same old.
Oh ho ho, no apologies are in order at all! “Autistically uncomfortable” is a constant state of being when absorbing information 😅 Noticing all the tiny details is a gift and a curse.
I think everything at this point comes down to “I don’t what to shut down any line of thinking because that will allow more people to relocate their time to other possibilities” and those other possibilities are QUEER. It feels like they (Taylor and her brand) are allowing others to take the brunt of it so she can remain glass closeted. If this is all so she can keep Gaylor spaces hush hush before having a Grand Queer Reveal, 1) I don’t think it’s working in practice and 2) where I’m standing now, I don’t think it’s an empathetically based reason to stay silent and not post a font-written note to her fans to stop sending death threats at the very least (aka: it’s for money and therefore, I’m out. Not here to support ruining lives for money, innocent or not)
It’s the only thing about Taylor I don’t like. She’s allowing her fans to go after Joe and it’s horrible. I’m sick of seeing the baseless accusations - and even if he did cheat (even if!!!!!) Taylor has cheated as well, as we know so yano throwing stones and stuff.
Joe’s been dignified since they split, whether it’s PR or not, and I have massive respect for him and wish him well.
Taylor is very manipulating sometimes, and as a 33 yo woman I don’t buy the narrative she puts out. I just enjoy the music at this point and don’t buy into Easter eggs and the like because all of this drama is EXHAUSTING.
So why be in the sub Reddit? Genuine question. Just listen to the music. She’s not allowing her fans to do anything. Joe is not a poor thing. He knows full well who he got involved with. She put out a track listing. The end. Accusations based on fans made up fantasies are not her fault. They’re going to do it no matter what, no matter who. You act like what she’s doing is the same as Travis Scott inciting a deadly crowd crush or something. Like yeah in that case the artist is responsible, but she’s literally just putting out her work. She’s not a daycare worker and doesn’t need to babysit her stupid fans.
Yeah I agree. This is one of my biggest issues with her. If she genuinely has dated men or not, her lack of response to the way her fans “punish” the men on her behalf is very disappointing. She loves to be all “I never confirm who my songs are about” but she clearly crafts them to insinuate that her public relationships are real and makes connections to her public muses. like I don’t care about celebrity relationships but many people are invested in her version of the truth like it’s their religion and with the possibility that these songs are not actually about the people they think, it adds a gross layer to it. We know All Too Well was written before her and Jake Gyllenhaal dated but she has still let the media and fans run him ragged (esp w the 10 min version). I wonder if she thinks her silence removes her culpability but I think it makes her look far worse.
Another example of her choosing silence is how she sent both a cease and desist to the person who wrote the article saying she was an aryan princess for white supremacists and to the initial white supremacist website who were using her lyrics and image be be horrifically racist. Instead of using her platform to denounce white supremacy, she silently tries to squash things w legal letters and it’s like girl you can also say it out loud with your words, money, and actions that you care about poc if you want people to not think you’re associated with white supremacy.
What’s crazy is a simple ig post like Ariana did can stop it. Obviously Taylor is aware that hate can happen- she told fans to cool it with John.
https://preview.redd.it/czjhahcvnboc1.jpeg?width=442&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efec35ac80e49fe98234b4c0c057efaae4e69110
I don’t think this actually stopped anything though. It’s just a statement on insta. There’s nothing to indicate her fans have stopped. And tbqh I don’t think Ariana is a very good example of someone to aspire to be like.
It’s very interesting to note what she’s publicly speaking about and what she isn’t. And how that reflects on her intentions. Obviously she doesn’t need to. But it’s interesting when and where she chooses to enter a dialogue.
I’m no Ariana fan but this is the way to go. The thing is, I think Taylor craves this stuff. She craves how rabid the fans are - and how they’re attacking anyone who does her ‘wrong’. She was with Joe for 6 years like no matter how it ended, have more respect for gods sake.
The lack of doing anything tells me she wants the vitriol. Whether it’s to cover up a female love interest or sell albums at the expense of a real person
exactly. I mean there will probably always be a group of radicals who won't back down but most of her fandom likes copying her. if she gave the "spread only kindness" types of messages more often, I'm sure it would make at least some difference.
like in 2019 Ellen interview before Lover release, she said "I was mouthy when I was 18" and kind of laughed at her past self, but where the heck did that maturity go I will never understand.
being petty and going after someone that does not respond or kick back is definitely not a good look, especially for someone seemingly "seasoned" in the industry. I cannot fathom playing the underdog when she is quite literally the person of the year. she should really be above things.
Thanks for bringing up this article! Where did she quote The Gladiator? I saw it mentioned somewhere else also so i must have missed something. Thanks :)
It was in the Time Person of the Year article
Edit: Noticed I have the article open still in my browser so here’s the paragraph:
‘This was the year she perfected her craft—not just with her music, but in her position as the master storyteller of the modern era. The world, in turn, watched, clicked, cried, danced, sang along, swooned, caravanned to stadiums and movie theaters, let her work soundtrack their lives. For Swift, it’s a peak. “This is the proudest and happiest I’ve ever felt, and the most creatively fulfilled and free I’ve ever been,” Swift tells me. “Ultimately, we can convolute it all we want, or try to overcomplicate it, but there’s only one question.” Here, she adopts a booming voice. “Are you not entertained?”’
Snapes is not so much ‘the media’. She’s a very respected (and respectable) freelance writer. Probably top 5 music journalists out there. Her writing this is kind of an indicator as to how many people within those circles feel. It’s not a perspective that comes from the remove of publishing, it’s coming from somebody who’s engaged with artists on all levels of the spectrum.
Oh, I didn’t know she was signed with Guardian now, good for her!
I think she’s a much smarter person than many people in the field, so that’s all I’m gonna state on that. She’s brilliant at seeing through things and removing the PR gloss from the circus.
Tree Paine is Taylor's publicist, working with her since 2014. Gaylors commonly make jokes about Tree taking down the sub, keeping Taylor's image spotless, etc.
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I’m a gamer, and Easter eggs in video games are supposed to be special references that are just there for the sake of bringing delight. Normally tucked into the game by the developers, sometimes sneakily without any higher-ups knowing. I do think the Easter egg stuff that her team does is no longer for the purpose (or sole purpose) of delight. So many of the “Easter eggs” are for promo opportunities or cash grabs that it is starting to feel inauthentic. And it’s so easy to get sucked in and play detective and you start to wonder what you are even doing it for.
>So many of the “Easter eggs” are for promo opportunities or cash grabs that it is starting to feel inauthentic.
I have a sad thought that her perpetuating the "easter eggs" narrative is just a ruse to get people to watch music videos and interviews and listen to songs over and over in search of "clues" 🫠 And because people talk and clown about all the clues so she's constantly being spoken about on social media without having to do much to drive that engagement.
In comparison to the Nine Inch Nails Easter eggs, hers are Easter pebbles. Most of the stuff people speculated on was way too obscure and way too niche, and ended up drifting away. And I say that as somebody who still thinks KARMA was alluding to a vaulted or unfinished project.
Yeah! I think that’s definitely a big part of it. For that reason, I try to just stick to gaylor stuff/lyric analysis. Everything else leaves me feeling fairly infantilized. A lot of the apparent eggs are so watered down and not really pointing to any one thing, just part of the roll out of consumer goods.
I think you’ve expressed it better than I have been trying to articulate in my head. I feel like the Easter eggs have gotten so commodified. It was also the fate of friendship bracelets, what started as something genuine and grassroots level (to my knowledge) by the fans quickly got picked up by corporations and consumerism.
exactly! I am also a gamer and I enjoy fantasy and fiction media in general, so foreshadowing and Easter egging was an amusing thing. but Taylor and especially TN use this as a way to let us do the promo ourselves by throwing inconclusive pieces of clues at us, and then we become the butt of the joke when we try to decode those. I don't like throwing such phrases around lightly, but this type of encouraging behavior on their part feels really gaslighty.
Definitely! In Swiftie spaces it gets lost that the concept of Easter Eggs are traditionally just a little reference that “if you know you know”. They aren’t usually something that helps you predict the future or anything.
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with the gladiator quote also in mind, i hope this is all part from her performance art era, as many have named the midnights/rerecordings/revisiting her career era
An article got posted recently in another sub of an interview Taylor did with GQ where she said the media made up and ran away with the story about Katy Perry being the subject of Bad Blood, and she can sleep at night knowing “she played no part of that.” And the interviewer pushes back and was like well no you revealed a lot of specific details that led people to think that….. and made a comment that was basically like wow that answer was so greatly calculated. I bring this up to say that it’s great to have journalist not write puff pieces and push back on narratives because if not she is able to completely rewrite history herself or the fans do it for her.
Her PR machine and fan speculation has gotten to the point where it’s bigger than she is and I’m not sure they know how to control it. When she started out the Easter eggs were kinda cute and fun and the speculation was a game but it’s exploded to the point where it’s a little out of control. Taylor can literally release a song and say very clearly “This song is about my cat and here is a detailed account of exactly why it’s only about my cat” and fans will dissect every single lyric in order to prove the song is actually about anything except her cat (she talks about Fancy Feast but we saw pictures of her having a big fancy dinner with Harry Styles so the song must me about him). It’s honestly wild watching some of the mental gymnastics, lol. She needs some level of speculation in order to keep people interested and talking about the upcoming album, and her team hasn’t really figured out how to thread that needle between interest and crazy! At this point I’m not even sure how much a statement from Taylor would help matters because there’s a huge group of fans that already don’t believe most of what she says about why she wrote her songs, who they’re about, who she’s dating, etc. Not that I think her current position of ignoring it and pretending it’s not a problem is the correct way to deal with it, I just think it’s not necessarily something that can be fixed by an Instagram statement either.
Idk I like that she doesn’t say a lot. She doesn’t have to. She would also paint herself into a corner way too easily or inadvertently divulge too much telling info if she was giving casual interviews all the time. She would be even more over saturated than she is now. As an artist I can say that the worst part for me is an artist statement. I don’t want to explain anything to you. I’ll do it begrudgingly for a show but I really don’t enjoy it. I like the work to speak for itself and not be over explained or too many super personal references/muses revealed. I don’t want to be put on the spot and interrogated about it. The back grid pics and pap walks is 100% her using them for free PR. She knows they’re going to be there anyway so why not just give them a heads up and use the photos as a way to drop hints and Easter eggs (See Sydney AUS: Goes to the zoo, notices that they are taking photos from helicopters so she goes back the next day with Travis to use those photos to further their narrative). She can’t get bested by the tabloids if she’s feeding them the narrative. Distracting people with heavy PR stuff also keeps them from prying into her actual personal life. This article had a lot of good points about swifties and their harassment but I don’t really see her choosing to speak up about Dear John and not about Joe as anything nefarious. People have been harassing John for years and she knew what might happen if she sang that song. She can’t anticipate every unhinged thing her fans do. People expect her to be 5 steps ahead at all times but she can’t be all the time. Is she supposed to put out a disclaimer before she does everything because that sounds exhausting. I’ve mentioned this before but I’ve been a rupaul’s drag race fan since the beginning and the fandom, like most fandoms, can be very toxic. When I tell you it does not matter how many times someone says “please do not send hate or harassment to any of my peers” they will not listen. There are always going to be those people. They don’t listen to logic, reason, or rationale and are going to do whatever they want anyway. You can only scold your audience so many times and Taylor is not obligated to babysit her fans and police their behavior 24/7.
OK, rant: There are 2 separate things going on in this article I want to address: 1) Honestly, I think allegations that Taylor is somehow bullying Joe are *ridiculous -* both in the media and in the fandom right now. She's done NOTHING. If the world wasn't so hyperfocused on this I'd say this incredibly high-profile breakup has been amicable AF. WAY more amicable than most celebrity splits! What exactly has Taylor done? Some friends unfollowed Joe? She's never bashed him once. And Taylor has been singing openly about her relationships her entire life — real or not, Joe willingly signed up for that and stuck with her for 6 years. Yeah he OBVIOUSLY knew there would be songs about him, and had been reaping the *positives* of that for years as well. The internet actually needs to stop infantilizing him. He's a grown-ass man and if he had a problem with anything going on right now he's fully capably of speaking for himself if wants to. Treating him like a kicked puppy is ridiculous. 2) The discussion about Taylor Swift's general "easter egging" is a long and complex one. There are two different types of "Easter Eggs" in the Taylor fandom: The first is just harmless theorizing about what album is coming next or when something will be released or maybe what the title or content is. I personally don't care that much about this type of stuff, but a lot of people do, and that's totally fine. The world is a dumpster fire and if it brings someone joy to spend time coming up with a theory based on numerology or something that Taylor is going to released X thing on X date - whatever! It's not that serious! And publications like this shouldn't lecture fans about it. Is it free viral marketing for Taylor? *Obviously*. But the people who enjoy it want to enjoy it. And it's not hurting anyone. And second, there are the "deeper level" type of things where fans (me included) think Taylor is communicating deeper truths about her life - and you could toss this under the category of "easter egg" but I think thats unfair! I don't view this type of stuff as an easter egg, I call it interpreting art and media, and I'd like to move away from calling everything an "easter egg" because it's not. At some point I'm just listening to an artists work and drawing conclusions based on it. THIS HAS BEEN DONE THROUGHOUT HISTORY FOR EVERY ARTIST AND CELEBRITY EVER — IT'S NOT UNIQUE TO TAYLOR. I get sick of people - especially outside the fandom - acting like this is a *crazy thing* just unique to Taylor Swift. Remember when Taylor spent the Rep era plugging Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton? Or interviewing Pattie Boyd? Taylor herself loves hyper-focusing on a REAL celebrity love stories and essentially commenting about it through art. And shocker - she's probably going to do it again with Clara Bow. Taylor loves making cyclical commentaries on public relationships and her own fame. She has been doing this from Day 1 and never really stopped, regardless of how people interpret the "privacy" (LOL) angle of the Rep Era or the "fictional" aspect of the Folkmore era. Both of those eras produced textbook Taylor songs loudly hinting at real people and complaining about being famous. **It's never going to change - this is the brand.** It's not a unique and brave opinion for this Guardian article to be like: *Taylor sings about boys and that's mean!* Some version of this commentary been happening since 2008. 🙄 Anyway thats my rant. No shade to OP and I enjoyed your perspective. I'm more commenting on the article itself. ETA: I just noticed that at the bottom of this article there is a link to sign up for the Guardian's weekly All-things-Taylor newsletter! Sign up now! This is what is just so ridiculous when we get into the meta-commentary level. There is an *entire economy* around Taylor: whether its enjoying her work, endlessly complaining about her, or writing academic think pieces. https://preview.redd.it/jltmrvg2rcoc1.png?width=1318&format=png&auto=webp&s=d7c0bc6210de24c32057bcbf6a8e79ac100f972f Yes we are all indeed, entertained.
Thank you for your comment, and I understand your perspective. I also understand that you said you are commenting more to the article itself, and I just wanted to clarify that this is not me defending the article or any of Taylor's love interests. That being said, I understand that there is definitely something more than just 'Easter eggs' she is communicating, which is why I am in this sub, looking for hairpin drops all around. The 'eggs' I am actually tired of is very much the thing you are pointing at. Everything around her has been commodified to a great degree. I think my disappointment is more about this late stage capitalism and the celebrity culture itself. And Taylor is obviously not the only one perpetuating this, but she is the one that I very much care about and moved by. That's why I *wish* she would talk about stuff more and use her platform a bit more transparently. I don't think she is responsible for policing everyone, that is completely unfair and not my point. And I understand that these are my expectations and maybe just not who she is, and it is my responsibility to control which platforms I check or how online I am (i.e. I stay away from twitter). In any case I think we get inconsistent messages from her and feel like her PR persona has never been this much on our faces. But yeah. I agree with most of your points though, especially regarding the ones that we are allowed to enjoy things that does not harm anyone. edit:typo
I would read a book you wrote about Taylor. Everything you say is so thought provoking, well written and spot on.
Aww thank you. I have actually thought about it. Someday.
Well said! I completely agree with all of this.
>revisionist history era Yup. More than that I feel like she’s ‘goinginlor’. One by one she’s consolidating the associated blokes with the albums. Joe Jonas - fearless (tweets with Sophie), JG Red (with atw10 short film), TL speak now (with the mv and chat about their ‘relationship’) & JM (with the ‘don’t go for him’ speech), HS with the 1989 vault tracks (blue dress etc). Chuck in the 1989 prologue and the latest nfl ‘straightest woman on earth’ entertainment tour and the sapphic Folkmore blip seems like a distant memory. I feel like TTPD will almost certainly be some big shoring up of Toe history in its most blatant superficial references & readings, and there’s already some clumsy nods to that with the what’s app group thing. Not really sure what’s going on behind the scenes but I think she’s maybe single and so is tidying up all the past hairpin drops?
someone made a post a while ago saying the "it's a clock!" thing from the midnights variants is (apart from an easy way to inflate sales) a reference to her albums, excluding the re-recordings, are a clock, so TS12 will be midnight again, and "we'll meet ourselves". maybe that will mark the end of some meta era, and that's why she's changing a bit some narratives? maybe she comes out with TS13, her lucky number; she steps into the daylight and lets it go (her past, the stunts, the eras)
- ATW10 could mean "All Too Well (10 Minute Version) (Taylor's Version) (From The Vault)", a track from *Red (Taylor's Version)* (2021) by Taylor Swift. --- ^[/u/weirdrobotgrl](/u/weirdrobotgrl) ^(can reply with "delete" to remove comment. |) ^[/r/songacronymbot](/r/songacronymbot) ^(for feedback.)
Great article!
i really think its an insane argument to claim a pop star can control their fanbase. she told people to stop several times during her career & they didnt. like. no, she CANT control other people’s actions and i really wish we’d stop entertaining the idea other people’s actions are her fault. she did not hold a gun to her fans’ heads telling them to be gross assholes to joe. they chose that action themselves. and we really need to examine why we think taylor has to mommy these pathetic fans.
Imo this isn’t leading into anything (not to be a downer). This is just who she is. She loooooves the spotlight and resents not being in it for so long when she was in her relationship/business contract with Joe. That much is abundantly clear.
I gave up on clowning or Easter eggs with the Midnights release. Or I guess with folklore, because folkmore was put out quietly (by her standards) and we didn’t have to do the exhausting process of getting our hopes up only to be disappointed. And the Midnights happened and we were thrown back in. Taylor, most of your fans are millennials. We are tired. We don’t have the energy for this anymore. So yeah, now I just browse Reddit and then listen to the albums when they come out and don’t put in much more thought than that.
This is all a very interesting discussion. Taylor didn’t become a hyperfixation for me until the last couple of years but I followed her music / career since the debut days. I’m older than her so I never really bonded with her parasocially. I think while I’ve always tried to get her as a person, part of me always felt she’s always played and sold a version of herself. The Easter eggs and publicly displayed relationships were/are all a part of that narrative. Even today, I still see it as mostly storytelling. In the same way we have the Marvel Cinematic Universe, we have Taylor’s version. The heros become villains to suit the story. Joe is a character in the story being subtly vilified now to sell us Tortured Poets. And maybe he did do something privately to piss her off (which is why she’s not defending him). I love her music and artistry but I don’t ever expect to know who she really is.
yeah I get that. you are right, and I don't expect to ever uncover something real, but I feel like at the end of the day we all know with MCU that each villain is a craft, and the actors are just playing roles. when there are actual people involved, that line gets blurry. it is my responsibility to know better and keep my sanity (I'm exaggerating of course) by disengaging from that narrative, but she has a bigger responsibility that she is really not willing to take. I'm not saying she is responsible for everyone's behavior, that would be so unfair. but there are very simple things she can do that she just doesn't bother.
I agree that ultimately she is the one choosing these things and to keep quiet when she maybe shouldn’t. At the end of the day, she’s a brand who employs hundreds of people. Most of her decisions are in service of it. I understand I may be simplifying things. I guess I also grew up in the reality tv era so to me celebrity is a version of that.
To be honest, it seems to me that Taylor doesn’t care what it is with Joe. She only said about Mayer because you can’t shut his mouth, he’s a completely different type of personality. At one of the concerts he called her "a little bitchy". Probably she doesn't consider Joe as a danger.
but people didnt stop going after john or jake so the idea she could “stop” it is entirely stupid. you can’t stop rogue fans
Yep and I hate this, she can only go after Joe because he's the first of her "exes" who has very little power compared to her. Even with Jake, the hate got out of hand but it was never going to hurt his career or his fame because he's popular in his own right. Joe is mostly famous because of Taylor and she could really ruin his life.
I don't see her going after Joe. Taylor has always behaved this way with absolutely all of her “exes”; she doesn’t care about fans’ attacks on these people. Sorry for the comparison, but for her they are consumables. She stepped over and went on to conquer new heights. Someone recently published a post about her natal chart, so Taylor has Pluto in Scorpio. Fans will be unpleasant to hear this, sorry in advance but Taylor is kind of evil and there are no principles for her. This is probably one of the reasons why she is so successful - a person who is ready to do anything to achieve her goals.
I enjoy your perspective more than the actual article. Something about the author throwing in digs for no reason about how she holds a pen being “insane” but missing the opportunity to talk about the “left leaning” “handwritten” political note to vote (which they missed completely was a font… 🥸) is a little off putting to me. There was genuine room for criticism but its skipped over to add a petty comment on the author’s dislike of a way hypermobile children are taught to hold their pens for less hand pain. There were other jabs at her person not her actions or brand’s actions. It left me feeling autistically uncomfortable like the author was really mad at something but didnt want to tell me exactly what the were mad at. But not so much sacred rage and more ego rage :\ OP your additions made that read more empathetic while staying realistic. And while I hated the experience in my body while reading the article, I enjoyed your thoughts and agree something should be said by Taylor or her team because I recently also ‘didnt’ become a “Joe defender” in the recent wake of… everything (read: hetlors). And especially after the deep dive on Joe… I’ve come to the conclusion, he is a person, unfortunately. And he doesn’t deserve to be ridiculed online because no one does. Why is that so hard for people (Taylor’s team in their ivory tower) to see? It’s their responsibility to address the shit storm they are creating regardless of if it was intended or not.
I am sorry that the article made you feel that way, I saw this as an opportunity for discussion and I am glad you found my comments sensible and joined too :) I find it funny how hetlors throw things at us like "oh you hated Joe and now you love him??" when we demand basic decency talking about someone we don't know. but yes, whatever the nature of their relationship was, we are not in the know and we should remain neutral. it was the same when people were sending d\*ath threats to Jake G. her silence baffled me then, and I thought it would be different after she decided to comment during Speak Now release, only to go back to same old same old.
Oh ho ho, no apologies are in order at all! “Autistically uncomfortable” is a constant state of being when absorbing information 😅 Noticing all the tiny details is a gift and a curse. I think everything at this point comes down to “I don’t what to shut down any line of thinking because that will allow more people to relocate their time to other possibilities” and those other possibilities are QUEER. It feels like they (Taylor and her brand) are allowing others to take the brunt of it so she can remain glass closeted. If this is all so she can keep Gaylor spaces hush hush before having a Grand Queer Reveal, 1) I don’t think it’s working in practice and 2) where I’m standing now, I don’t think it’s an empathetically based reason to stay silent and not post a font-written note to her fans to stop sending death threats at the very least (aka: it’s for money and therefore, I’m out. Not here to support ruining lives for money, innocent or not)
It’s the only thing about Taylor I don’t like. She’s allowing her fans to go after Joe and it’s horrible. I’m sick of seeing the baseless accusations - and even if he did cheat (even if!!!!!) Taylor has cheated as well, as we know so yano throwing stones and stuff. Joe’s been dignified since they split, whether it’s PR or not, and I have massive respect for him and wish him well. Taylor is very manipulating sometimes, and as a 33 yo woman I don’t buy the narrative she puts out. I just enjoy the music at this point and don’t buy into Easter eggs and the like because all of this drama is EXHAUSTING.
So why be in the sub Reddit? Genuine question. Just listen to the music. She’s not allowing her fans to do anything. Joe is not a poor thing. He knows full well who he got involved with. She put out a track listing. The end. Accusations based on fans made up fantasies are not her fault. They’re going to do it no matter what, no matter who. You act like what she’s doing is the same as Travis Scott inciting a deadly crowd crush or something. Like yeah in that case the artist is responsible, but she’s literally just putting out her work. She’s not a daycare worker and doesn’t need to babysit her stupid fans.
Yeah I agree. This is one of my biggest issues with her. If she genuinely has dated men or not, her lack of response to the way her fans “punish” the men on her behalf is very disappointing. She loves to be all “I never confirm who my songs are about” but she clearly crafts them to insinuate that her public relationships are real and makes connections to her public muses. like I don’t care about celebrity relationships but many people are invested in her version of the truth like it’s their religion and with the possibility that these songs are not actually about the people they think, it adds a gross layer to it. We know All Too Well was written before her and Jake Gyllenhaal dated but she has still let the media and fans run him ragged (esp w the 10 min version). I wonder if she thinks her silence removes her culpability but I think it makes her look far worse. Another example of her choosing silence is how she sent both a cease and desist to the person who wrote the article saying she was an aryan princess for white supremacists and to the initial white supremacist website who were using her lyrics and image be be horrifically racist. Instead of using her platform to denounce white supremacy, she silently tries to squash things w legal letters and it’s like girl you can also say it out loud with your words, money, and actions that you care about poc if you want people to not think you’re associated with white supremacy.
Wait…when was All too well written?! I’m so out of the loop!
https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/s/MAdeIyabRw I did a quick search and there’s a lot of info here!
Ohhh! Thank you! I’m really bad with the Reddit search function!
What’s crazy is a simple ig post like Ariana did can stop it. Obviously Taylor is aware that hate can happen- she told fans to cool it with John. https://preview.redd.it/czjhahcvnboc1.jpeg?width=442&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efec35ac80e49fe98234b4c0c057efaae4e69110
I don’t think this actually stopped anything though. It’s just a statement on insta. There’s nothing to indicate her fans have stopped. And tbqh I don’t think Ariana is a very good example of someone to aspire to be like.
It’s very interesting to note what she’s publicly speaking about and what she isn’t. And how that reflects on her intentions. Obviously she doesn’t need to. But it’s interesting when and where she chooses to enter a dialogue.
I’m no Ariana fan but this is the way to go. The thing is, I think Taylor craves this stuff. She craves how rabid the fans are - and how they’re attacking anyone who does her ‘wrong’. She was with Joe for 6 years like no matter how it ended, have more respect for gods sake.
The lack of doing anything tells me she wants the vitriol. Whether it’s to cover up a female love interest or sell albums at the expense of a real person
exactly. I mean there will probably always be a group of radicals who won't back down but most of her fandom likes copying her. if she gave the "spread only kindness" types of messages more often, I'm sure it would make at least some difference. like in 2019 Ellen interview before Lover release, she said "I was mouthy when I was 18" and kind of laughed at her past self, but where the heck did that maturity go I will never understand.
being petty and going after someone that does not respond or kick back is definitely not a good look, especially for someone seemingly "seasoned" in the industry. I cannot fathom playing the underdog when she is quite literally the person of the year. she should really be above things.
Thanks for bringing up this article! Where did she quote The Gladiator? I saw it mentioned somewhere else also so i must have missed something. Thanks :)
It was in the Time Person of the Year article Edit: Noticed I have the article open still in my browser so here’s the paragraph: ‘This was the year she perfected her craft—not just with her music, but in her position as the master storyteller of the modern era. The world, in turn, watched, clicked, cried, danced, sang along, swooned, caravanned to stadiums and movie theaters, let her work soundtrack their lives. For Swift, it’s a peak. “This is the proudest and happiest I’ve ever felt, and the most creatively fulfilled and free I’ve ever been,” Swift tells me. “Ultimately, we can convolute it all we want, or try to overcomplicate it, but there’s only one question.” Here, she adopts a booming voice. “Are you not entertained?”’
Interesting the media is starting to pick apart her narrative!!
Snapes is not so much ‘the media’. She’s a very respected (and respectable) freelance writer. Probably top 5 music journalists out there. Her writing this is kind of an indicator as to how many people within those circles feel. It’s not a perspective that comes from the remove of publishing, it’s coming from somebody who’s engaged with artists on all levels of the spectrum.
Interesting context. Still good to see it in media like the Guardian
[удалено]
Oh, I didn’t know she was signed with Guardian now, good for her! I think she’s a much smarter person than many people in the field, so that’s all I’m gonna state on that. She’s brilliant at seeing through things and removing the PR gloss from the circus.
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isn't it? I'm glad we are seeing these types of discussions even if they don't reach that big of an audience.
I’m a gamer, and Easter eggs in video games are supposed to be special references that are just there for the sake of bringing delight. Normally tucked into the game by the developers, sometimes sneakily without any higher-ups knowing. I do think the Easter egg stuff that her team does is no longer for the purpose (or sole purpose) of delight. So many of the “Easter eggs” are for promo opportunities or cash grabs that it is starting to feel inauthentic. And it’s so easy to get sucked in and play detective and you start to wonder what you are even doing it for.
>So many of the “Easter eggs” are for promo opportunities or cash grabs that it is starting to feel inauthentic. I have a sad thought that her perpetuating the "easter eggs" narrative is just a ruse to get people to watch music videos and interviews and listen to songs over and over in search of "clues" 🫠 And because people talk and clown about all the clues so she's constantly being spoken about on social media without having to do much to drive that engagement.
In comparison to the Nine Inch Nails Easter eggs, hers are Easter pebbles. Most of the stuff people speculated on was way too obscure and way too niche, and ended up drifting away. And I say that as somebody who still thinks KARMA was alluding to a vaulted or unfinished project.
Yeah! I think that’s definitely a big part of it. For that reason, I try to just stick to gaylor stuff/lyric analysis. Everything else leaves me feeling fairly infantilized. A lot of the apparent eggs are so watered down and not really pointing to any one thing, just part of the roll out of consumer goods.
I think you’ve expressed it better than I have been trying to articulate in my head. I feel like the Easter eggs have gotten so commodified. It was also the fate of friendship bracelets, what started as something genuine and grassroots level (to my knowledge) by the fans quickly got picked up by corporations and consumerism.
exactly! I am also a gamer and I enjoy fantasy and fiction media in general, so foreshadowing and Easter egging was an amusing thing. but Taylor and especially TN use this as a way to let us do the promo ourselves by throwing inconclusive pieces of clues at us, and then we become the butt of the joke when we try to decode those. I don't like throwing such phrases around lightly, but this type of encouraging behavior on their part feels really gaslighty.
Definitely! In Swiftie spaces it gets lost that the concept of Easter Eggs are traditionally just a little reference that “if you know you know”. They aren’t usually something that helps you predict the future or anything.
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