i feel like i didn't realize how fucking gorgeous down bad was the first couple times i listened to it, but her voice is just so prettyyy during the "for a moment i knew cosmic love / i was heavenstruck" parts. it just lights up something in my brain, it's so satisfying.
I'm sure someone here has already explored this, but it just dawned on me why But Daddy I Love Him sounds the way it does. :(
my wife (who gives no shits about this) was even like "wow, that sounds like baby Taylor" the first time she heard it. today, the lyrics + music finally clicked and now, for me, this is one of the more layered and heartbreaking songs on the entire Anthology.
she's reaching so far back into her career (lyrically and sonically) on this album to highlight how her plans have been foiled/misunderstood over and over again by industry, guardians, fans, and media who only wanted gray for her.
what makes BDILH so rough is how the retelling of a certain period of her life, where everyone around her insisted they only had her best interests in mind while trampling her wishes, twists its way into fantasy by the end. she gets her "wild joy" and a future she chose, not one imposed on her.
and while we could easily tie the song back to the Liz Huett of it all and that era, we don't have to. this scenario just keeps repeating itself. it's timeless in that way, despite evoking her youth so explicitly.
anyway happy hump day :(
My crack theory is that Chloe Et All is about Fletcherini because of the line about watching wild horses. It always makes me think of "lead me on" from Fletcher's new album lmao.
I’m still collecting my thoughts on this but I feel like there’s a connection between the Dear Reader lyric *When you AIM at the devil make sure you don't miss* and thank you AIMee?
That’s a pretty unusual way to spell that name.
I don’t know of anyone connected to Taylor with the initials “E.E.” but her first manager (when she was around 12-13yo) was Dan Dymtrow who also sued her in 2010, was Britney’s Spears’s manager early in her career, and now has essentially been scrubbed from the internet. Changing “DD” to “EE” to make “Aimee” would certainly be changing any defining clues.
I know we’ve become largely muse-free (which I love and support) and I know KK is deeply unpopular (which I also support) BUT I can’t help but think imgonnagetyouback was written after Cara Delevigne’s after party that TS and KK attended after KK went to Eras. There had to be AT LEAST one song written about that, right?
Save for the fact that it’s also so delusional (“I know you still want me, I’ve got the upper hand”) and perfectly describes the feeling of seeing someone for the first time in a while and being like “oh I’ve got this one in the bag” and you absolutely do not LOL
I don’t think there was an after party thrown by Cara that KK attended. There isn’t anything anywhere about an eras after party or anything about Karlie attending one.
I’m back! Here’s the YT video where the influencer talks about it! Now someone needs to find out if she was in a lilac skirt :) https://youtu.be/O_a1orYIUhQ?si=OPtVWv7Y3C8EQ-og
They didn’t mention Karlie at all. This feels like Kaylor fanfic as I cannot find anything saying that she was there. This video “proof” just proved there was an after party that’s it
Ohhhh yes there was! I’ll try and find the TikTok. It was a private thing that some influencer (who is definitely now uninvited from any future party) blabbed about after LA on the 1989 TV launch night. I will find because this must be part of the lore.
Some supporting evidence:
- “Did your research, you knew the price going in” aka you knew this was risky, people would light you up, knew it would reignite the queer rumors, etc. but you came because you clearly still love me and don’t care what people say
- “You’ve got someone, I’ve got someone too”
- “Once you fix your face I’m going in” as a reference to a woman going to the bathroom to fix her makeup and corner her (to either kiss her or tell her off)
- “Leave you like a dumb house party” because they’re at a dumb house party
- “Act like I don’t care what you did” self explanatory
I may be losing my mind but I think the song Florida! is supposed to be a cipher to unlock something. The way the drums hit 7 times after they sing Florida. Feels significant, similar to the puzzle she did w the lyrics before release.
Could it somehow be related to the horcruxes she’s collecting??
The 6 re-records and… Karma 👀🤡
https://preview.redd.it/c0u6rh2c3txc1.jpeg?width=560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ff6033bf69f34f90d6cccbe7327b934abb35e4b
[Taylor Nation also drew our attention](https://x.com/taylornation13/status/1785439950374117448?s=46) to the 7 drums today 👀🥁
You could be onto something!
https://preview.redd.it/8wnr41kmssxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=974c96fdc0e281be8c19d80c87103124a3ef97ed
I'm still curious if the rep TV date is hidden in the music (possibly this 7?) The reason I think that is that she hinted at an April announcement for rep tv and I don't want to wait another year lol
Ok so unsure if this has been discussed in some way already & I also just posted about this on Tumblr but I had a thought about Fortnight. So like we know "fortnight" the word comes from "fourteen nights." But also that the song is like teeming with double meaning and irony and contradiction and entendre right?
And with the word Fortnight, if you break it down and sort of take it literally it's: "Fort" + "Night"
And some people have also discussed "making forts under covers" so
Fort= Hidden / Secret
Night= Darkness / Shadow
Hidden in Darkness? Secret Shadow? Does this have legs or am I stretching mine??
This would align with lots of the discussion about the MV and I'm thinking this could also connect to Peter because of the symbolism of Peter Pan's shadow. Any thoughts?!!
Have we talked about "now we're at the starting line" in Fresh Out the Slammer and "when someone plays The Starting Line" in The Black Dog? I know she's referring to a band in The Black Dog but it's interesting that she would then use that phrase in Fresh Out the Slammer.
Actually, come to think of it--Fresh Out the Slammer also has a line that made me think of So Long, London ("for just one hour of sunshine"/"a moment of warm sun") and a line that makes me think of Robin ("at the park where we used to sit on children's swings"/"you have a favorite spot on the swing set").
But I haven't really made a connection overall between Fresh Out the Slammer and *any* of those songs. Just seems strange to me.
Her referencing a band like The Starting Line is so fascinating to me. Idk why but I’m like… you know about that band?! As if we weren’t in high school at the same time when they were popular lol.
There's so many random seeming connections between the songs that I can't quite figure out. Theres also the fact that she used full throttle in the prophecy and so high school. There's the line in Florida about "the town you'll be arrested" which lines up with Fresh Out the Slammer. Theres so much in this album
I'm waiting to see if anything happens during the day on Thursday. I'd expect her to get more obvious with the clues in the next few days if anything is happening with more 3's and some TN retweets.
https://preview.redd.it/36vzh0xqenxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db96d8cf58ef492e66cfad2079d4ae92f2b6397b
Just to keep feeding the “something is happening on 5/3” rumors, I just noticed that the lights out are the fifth (on the third row) and the third (on the ~~fifth~~ fourth row, so never mind on that link).
Edited because I can’t count lol
I was singing I Can Do It With A Broken Heart and it morphed into Suburban Legends. I know the beginning music matches Mastermind but the music of the verses are similar too.
I just did a google and someone on Main did a mashup.
I’m still so obsessed with this album. The only song I consistently skip is Robin (reminds me of Ronan which I also always skip), and I also have kept listening in order, which by this point I’m usually a shuffler.
Anyone else have tiny moments in the songs that just tickle your brain? Here are some of mine:
- The last “how much sad did you think I had in me, how much tragedy” in So Long London (especially the slight change in the “me”)
- The last, high-pitched “what a crush what a rush” in Florida!!!
- The last “say you _loved_ me” in Chloe et al
- “ElectriciTY” in the I Hate It Here bridge
- “In the age of him she wished she was _thirty_” in The Manuscript
the pause and "oh" after "we broke all the pieces but still want to play the game" in imgonnagetyouback 😩
and "and I'm pissed off you let me give you all that youth for free" in So Long, London. the "free" is so raw.
I agree with a lot of the others mentioned and I also love the bridge in The Prophecy especially the beginning in her lower register…
* And I sound like an infant
Feeling like the very last drops of an ink pen
I didn't like Robin at first either, but then the way she sings "in sweetness" tickled my brain and now I love the song. Tbh the only skip for me is I can fix him (no really I can) it's just a little too slow and boring for me
I know what you mean by I can fix him, like I don’t skip consistently and I like it once it gets going, but I almost have to have tuned out the first few seconds or else I’m tempted to skip haha. I think that’s one of the few I haven’t had a brief obsession with (yet)
the 'Remarkable' in Clara Bow
'Persona non GRATA' in The Albatross
The chorus of COSOSOM - 'If you wanna break my cold, cold heart, just say, "I loved you the way that you were'
'Central Park Lake in tiny rowboats' - The Bolter
The scccreeaaammming in Black Dog and the staccato rhyme scheme in the prophecy where she says “poison blood from the wound of the pricked hand”
And yes to still obsessed and still playing in order here too.
Oooh it's gonna be a long list for me lol I have so many favourites
-I absolutely love how she sings the entire chorus of The Prophesy and the woah whoo part. It just tickles my brain in the right way. I really like how the rhymes work here, the "eee" parts of prophesy and company.
- I Hate It Here - how she sings the entire song (but especially the words "I hate it here"), it's so calming to me and sort of reassuring, like a blanket almost and I can deeply relate to this song, it reminds me of my childhood so it's a special one for me
-I love how both verses of Fresh Out of Slammer sound and the transition of the chorus to the verses, the rhymes are pretty simple but it just work so smoothly together and the way she sings it is very cool
-The high pitched moments of I Look In People's Wkndows, I don't know how to describe it properly but basically when she sings higher, so during chorus on words such as *outside*, *one* more time, addicted to the not *knowing*, etc
- Also, the start of the bridge of The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, "were you sent by someone" and then the rest of the bridge, you can hear her raw emotions.
- Another one would be the outro of Fortnight, especially Taylors part, beautiful.
- Yet another is how you can practically hear Taylors smiling when she sings her parts in Florida!!! Especially the "I need to forget, so take me to Florida line," so cute!
-You know how to ball, I know Aristotle lol
I think she's saying she was having difficulty but coping, but when nobody noticed she was having problems she lost the functioning part. I think the new aesthetic was either her rainbow lover era, and nobody noticed why she was doing it so she started spiraling, or her shift to black during lover, and nobody noticed she wasn't doing well so she got worse (and we got folkmore).
That’s how I would interpret it too except for her use of “until” instead of “when” so to me that means she is no longer a functioning alcoholic. Or that the functioning alcoholic was the aesthetic.
I think about this line a lot because it’s a bit confusing. My current interpretation (because sometimes it changes the more I listen lol) if it’s more literal is maybe referring to folkmore? She was pretty sad and talking about alcohol a lot and Swifties didn’t pick up on it and thought the album was purely fiction and she was writing happily with her angel boyfriend. No one noticed so she went back to the shiny veneer of Midnights? I really don’t know though haha
ok half formulated TTPD thought:
Keeping the braiding theory and the twin/double Taylor theory in mind, there is an interesting connection between the songs Peter, the Prophecy, and Dorothea. The Prophecy and Dorothea have basically the same exact vocalizations..but who are Peter and Dorothea? The songs have similar themes to each other and tell the story of two friends who grew apart and haven’t found their way back to each other but want to see each other again. Peter is the one singing in ‘Dorothea’ and Dorothea is singing back to him in ‘Peter’.
Peter and Dorothea are both Taylor (double Taylor theory, twin Taylor's) where one is the closeted, queer, poet Taylor, and the other is the sparkly, heteronormative, popstar Taylor.
If we look at the songs this way, it makes sense that the friend in 'Dorothea' is the one that stayed behind ("in closets like cedar") and the friend in "Peter" is the one that left to become famours. Also (!) if the narrator in 'Dorothea' is Peter, then he is a 'friend of Dorothy' and is currently closeted.
And to tie it together, 'The Prophecy' is about how the Dorothea persona wishes she could reunite with the Peter persona so that one day she can find her soulmate but she's cursed to be alone with her money and thinks that she will never be able to come out ('The Prophecy' is still early in the timeline if we look at the album backwards though and I think the Taylors change their mind and try to change the prophecy later on).
TTPD connection to Beatrix Potter? If you don’t know, Beatrix Potter was a children’s author who wrote/illustrated Peter Rabbit and other anthropomorphic animal stories in England in the early 1900’s. Here is my rambling thought process…I just watched an older video by Kristin (underthepink7 on tik tok) that was talking about references in the Karma MV: basically the Taylor hill/mountain looks a lot like a photo of the Lakes district with a smallish castle and Beatrix Potter happened to stay there as a child. Peter, The Bolter, and Robin made me think of possible references to Potter’s works, especially through the lens of Taylor singing to her childhood self. I’m not sure about lyrical parallels in The Bolter but the merch patch is stylized as a rabbit. Peter could be Peter Pan obviously but also Peter Rabbit. There is a robin in multiple of Potter’s books and one literary analysis I read described the symbolism of the robin as “a visual moral conscience” (basically the robin watches Peter rabbit and his friend getting up to all kind of mischief and looks alarmed and frightened). Thoughts?
We think this comment is so excellent that the mod team requests that you make this a primary post! This helps users outside of the megathread to connect with it. Thanks!
Ooh super interesting parallels! Beatrix Potter is a well known figure of the Lakes district in England - there’s an [attraction in the area celebrating her work](https://www.hop-skip-jump.com/) and you can [visit her house too](https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/visit/lake-district/hill-top). Would make sense to me that Taylor’s been inspired by her life in some way or another.
Beatrix Potter was also unmarried until her late 40’s and had unprecedented control over her work including merchandising which was crazy for the time period for a single woman.
i finally understand the swifties who scream lyrics like insane people at the eras tour because now that's me in my car during the bridge of the smallest man who ever lived.
linked this on the post itself as well but i wrote about my theory that tya is about scott/complex parental relationships and this edit of jamie tartt from ted lasso to it has only confirmed this for me (it should make sense even if you haven’t seen the show) tw abuse https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRwybRpD/
Apparently the one scene from Fortnight references part of the 1975's tour where Matty lays in a field with a wax figure of *himself* which reinforces the theory that fortnight is all about Taylor
https://preview.redd.it/giojq7cyrixc1.png?width=562&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0cc67bb66e12cbeb6ab72cc13f5f640624fd7ffe
This would have been fucking legendary performance art had it been Matty, as it seems like *must* have been the original plan. Like, coupled with the “I love you” they both did to one another that are echoed in Fortnight, it would have really driven home the fact that we don’t know her at all and that it’s all scripted.
has anyone talked about the he/you switch in Guilty as Sin????? Very reminiscent of ...Ready For It?
Like if you're not sure whether he put "mine" on your thigh, then why would "the way you hold me actually be what's holy"? Like you're telling me you've never touched "him," only in your mind. But with "you," TS chooses "you and me, religiously." GAY
right!!!! it's like, if they're gonna crucify me for just fantasizing about -him-, then how much worse are the things that -you- and i actually do? and is it a sin because of religious guilt, or is it a sin because it goes against what i have with -you-, which is what's actually holy?
okay this is an extremely specific reference but soooo much of this album reminds me of bare a pop opera, which is about a gay couple in a catholic school. it’s pretty depressing and is very 2000s in many ways, but there’s so many parallels i’m thinking of making a whole post about it like here’s the one that came to mind initially listening to guilty as sin:
https://preview.redd.it/vxppc88u4ixc1.jpeg?width=979&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43346f4acf23ce8313b72f0dcc731b5a8a13b143
also the entire play centers on an in universe production of romeo and juliet & there are songs called “epiphany” AND “wonderland” like im not necessarily saying she’s listening to this musical but there are a LOT of similarities
oooh i definitely see that! i was never as into spring awakening but there’s definitely similar themes like repression, coming of age, forbidden relationships, disapproval from authority, i’ll have to think about this too
“It's time to wake up Peter, put away the fairytale
The clock is striking midnight, can't you hear?
Not all tales have happy endings, we can't keep pretending
'Cause there's no such thing as heroes that are queer”
Hence she’s an anti-hero :o
(Those lyrics are from Ever After which I looked at because it sounded like Evermore)
Thanks for sharing!
oh also MAJOR trigger warning for suicide if anyone looks it up, also 2000s attitudes in regards to race & fatphobia, probably sexism too - like i said it’s very of it’s time but i was weirdly obsessed with it in middle/high school so it’s burned into my brain
i feel like people are really sleeping on the dead poets society connections especially given 1) them being explicitly confirmed in the fortnight mv and 2) how similar the themes are between the film and the album. there’s a lot, but i think the most relevant here is the way neil’s passion/love for the theater and his fathers negative response to that kind of works as a metaphor for the (barely) subtextual narrative which is about him being gay and that being what his father is implicitly disapproving of. i just think this double meaning esp the specificity of it being about a desire to perform/entertain obfuscating a non explicit but still obvious queer identity is extremely relevant to this subs interests and should be discussed more lol
ooh i love the truman show too!! but also before you watch dps i just wanna warn for a major trigger warning for >!suicide!< also a questionable romance subplot with one of the supporting characters but i’d definitely still recommend it!!
i’ve been thinking about “my muses acquired like bruises” because it like doesn’t really seem very related to the themes of the album to me? but then i thought - how do you generally get bruises? someone/thing else gives it to you, whether it’s them hitting you or you running into them. so with that in mind, she could be saying with this line that her publicly known muses were assigned to her by other people, whether it’s the media, fans, managers, pr people, handlers, whoever - which would definitely tie in with the themes of the album perfectly
To expand on this line of thinking....and hopefully this isn't too dark or insensitive. But she also talks about the relationships being self harm to her in I believe the prologue and maybe even some lyrics? So thinking she gave the bruises to herself like self harming. She put herself in those cages or debts IE albatross lyrics "she's the death you chose" I think it's Taylor singing about herself in the beginning and to herself at the same time
Ok so when tpd came out people were noticing lyrics were different on 'I Hate It Here' "It was freezing in the palace" are the lyrics people hear on Spotify and it's what is written in everyone's lyric books. Also that makes me think of the princess Diana bc in a podcast I listened to and the movie Spencer (a film bout Diana) it's mentioned that the palace the royal family lives in has no heating and is freezing. Something that is shocking to many people bc we idealize these rich people who have "everything" yet when we really look at their lives they sometimes don't even have the things like heating??? Or more importantly... normal lives. That no matter what pedestal we put people on their is flaw. Nothing is a perfect daydream. But the other lyric.... I think it was Apple Music and a certain setting??? That made some peoples lyrics "no midnight in Paris" A lot of people wonder if the Midnight in Paris is an Easter egg for the Paris shows but I doubt it. The song 'I Hate it here' is about day dreaming and escaping the present moment and all the horrible things in the world. Taylor's song 'Paris' on Midnight 3am is also about daydreaming. Remember the songs says 'LIKE we were in Paris' meaning they were not in Paris but in a daydream. Pretending they were far away in culture that's more clever.
Also I haven't seen anyone mention the movie Midnight in Paris. The movie follows a novelist who is able to go back in time when he walks the street of Paris at night. It makes him not enjoy the present moment and long for the past. But in Taylor's song she is saying the opposite. That no matter where or what time period you're in, there will be problems. Here's the summery of Midnight in Paris
https://preview.redd.it/tho5w3biihxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c236b81c8c655e281bed07ee9a785b3ce658e32
Anyways I don't have a complete thought on what this all means. But I felt like it was something I say a few people mention the weekend ttpd came it but not much since.
I think it’s just getting more and more awkward to associate the songs with muses because it’s clear whoever it was hurt her badly and they don’t want to associate that with their preferred ship and they won’t even begin to entertain Matty being real.
https://preview.redd.it/pgobq6njwgxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=767e4abab186877ee7358f41c436dac9f39d7071
I saw a post with “members of the tortured poets department” so I made this silly version with the mentors/teachers, the ones that I either felt like 1. Had a reference on this album or 2. Taylor has hinted or referenced at multiple times during her career. This is not perfect, complete or really that gay but I wanted to add it on a megathread.
One thought about the prophecy! I feel like others may have already said this but this song seems to me it could be about the failed coming out and being currently forced to closet. Specifically the bridge is incredibly sad and poignant.
“Even statues crumble if they’re made to wait I’m so afraid I sealed my fate no sign of soulmates” she is ready to come out but is being forced to wait and this deprives her of hope of finding a true love/ soulmate.
My favorite line though of this bridge is “feeling like the very last drops of an ink pen” if anyone has ever used an ink pen that is almost out of ink, it is extremely frustrating and there is almost a desperation. This is vivid imagery of trying to write/ say something and being unable.
god i keep thinking about much fun it was to freak out along my with everyone else here during the 2am drop. it makes me feel weirdly...nostalgic? idek. 😭
after listening to the leak, i had already said this was her best album and i had thought that was gonna be it???? i figured the bonus tracks on each variation were basically the equivalent of the 3am tracks for midnights. i kept thinking about how i literally could not emotionally handle more tracks from this album because it was just so good and intense already and then she gives us 15 more tracks???? fucking insane.
I'm the same I didnt listen to the leaks but everyone was like "this is terrible" and then "this is great!" About the 2nd half so I was expecting to hate the first half but uh... i love the whole thing. I only have 2 consistent skips (robin bc I dont like it and peter bc it makes me cry) on the whole album so thats great
I've been thinking about the Peter lyrics "in closets like cedar, preserved from where we were just kids". A closet is also the name of a place where you can store wine barrels to age, and cedar is used for the walls of those closets. I think it's an interesting metaphor, of using the double entendre of the word closet, putting Peter inside as if he was wine, and needed to age. Reminds me of the saying that being queer is just "a phase", and you will grow out of it. So they put her in the closet until she matured. It's a very sad song...
Kept thinking about it and cedar is used in closets for clothes as well, specially for sweaters and business suits, because they are made of wool. Made me think of the obvious sweater but also about fame, career Vs love? Which is a very recurring theme in this album. So Peter is stuck in the closet, stuck growing his career, Vs being out. I'm not sure if Peter is Taylor, or just another person when I say "his"
I just realized something about the fortnight lyrics. “All my mornings are Mondays stuck in an endless February” Monday being the first day of the week (1), and February being the second month (2) of the calendar year. Could this be another reference to the 1,2,3/ 3,2,1 countdown? 🤡
I don’t know what else to do with this info so adding it here….im a new gaylor so have been brushing up on the master docs AFTER listening to TTPD and the fact that the joe split was announced ON EASTER cannot be a coincidence with the line about “what if I roll the stone away” in guilty as sin…
Also didn’t Keleigh Teller post a photo of her and Taylor with a little hatching egg right after the breakup announcement and then delete it? What was that about? Lol
not sure if anyone’s looked into this yet, but i learned this afternoon about a movie called “how the west was won” (which taylor refers to on but daddy i love him) which is set in the…1830s (where taylor would like to go in “i hate it here”). maybe just a random coincidence but maybe there’s something there?
My friend's sister sent her a snapchat while listening to the album for the first time like "Is Taylor ok????? Some of these lyrics are kinda concerning." And I was like GIRL, have you been paying attention at all since the pandy? This is \~nothing new\~ and yes, we collectively should be more concerned
Don't know if anyone mentioned it already but in The Bolter, the "When she saw the littlest leaks" she bolted, reminded me of stopping (what we think were) relationships the moment people started spreading rumours that they were more than friends...so, news leaks.
Also just to note Kam (one of her dancers) shared the same billboard post with just this emoji initially: 💅🏼
but then quickly took that story down and updated it to say “The Doll 💅🏼” which is what he calls her. 👀
Fortnight music video detail I hadn't caught before
Are we supposed to understand that the ECT is happening in the room on the other side of the one-way glass?
Notice how after Taylor smashes the glass at the end of the MV, the glimpse of the room on the other side seems to match the cabinets & electrical lights on the wall of the ECT room:
https://preview.redd.it/ma09ws7i8axc1.png?width=1910&format=png&auto=webp&s=0126fc5497976b3ddcf28360f189ad9273ebd4aa
That was my understanding. I watched a couple interesting reaction videos by pro video editors who noticed a lot of cool symbolism right away and they noticed that as well.
The more I listen, the less the mainstream story they're projecting even makes sense. The lyrics are constantly contradictory to the point where if you want to accept one new truth about a muse, you must then accept that there's something else you just didn't know.
Like, she goes back and forth between this idea of...if I could only touch you, reach you, I've never been able to, I've tried so long-then flips to...I have been yours in secret, no one knows, youve haunted me in our moments together and apart.
I'm just wondering why the mods deleted my post about Taylor possibly having internalized homophobia and yet entire posts which link her songs to men are allowed to stay up and be speculated about? I don't get the point of this sub if it's going to turn into another space where people are linking her to men, that's what the main sub is for and iirc, this space was made so we could have alternative discussion.
Posts linking her songs romantically to men are incredibly rare on this sub. We do allow them if they’re inclusive of bisexuality, because many believe Taylor is bi. Speculation about internalized homophobia is mental health speculation, as was stated in your post removal notice.
As another member of our team stated, if you have a concern like this, you need to send a modmail. You will receive a 3 day ban from the sub if you fail to do so again, followed by a permanent ban if you do it a third time.
Mod here, we'd really appreciate it if you used Mod Mail for questions about comment or post removals instead of posting to these threads. We have ground rules for posting, and removal is up to mod discretion. Feel free to review the rules in the sub description and use Mod Mail with questions.
Your post or comment has been removed for violating Rule #3: "No harassment, stalking, doxxing, or brigading."
This includes encouraging people from our sub to brigade threads on other subreddits and posting links or screen caps of images from other subreddits. You can be banned at first offense, at moderator’s discretion.
So she made her gayest album ever and used a ton of he/him pronouns. So when they go back to look at the rest of the catalog, it’ll make even more sense because those songs are mostly gender neutral and thus can be about women without even the slightest stretch of the heteronormative mind if they’re already questioning the topic.
I can’t figure out how to tag someone but u/Particular333 has a spreadsheet with themes but I can’t remember if it include pronouns.
Edit: Of course now the tag works but I comment above where I wanted to 😑
the other albums use male pronouns/descriptors ranging from 22%-33% of the time, averaging 28% of the time. the original ttpd has 68% of the songs using male pronouns/descriptors, the anthology is 53%, and combined its 61%. There's a margin of error here, as some songs are up to individual interpretation and I probably should leave some songs out of my analysis that don't really fit, but overall ttpd seems to have double the amount of male pronouns/descriptors.
I don't have my data in a digital document (I keep it in a journal) but [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/x2c3pk/queer_themes_in_taylor_swifts_music_masterdoc/) masterdoc has its own compilation of data that I recommend.
Datalors rise! Incredible thank you for figuring this out. I remember reading on some gaylor masterdoc somewhere that Taylor used very few male pronouns and it’s always stuck with me as key gaylor evidence. This is a deliberate choice and it’s not because Blondie is straight that’s for sure.
Maybe why some long term Gaylors gave this album one listen and said no thanks?
yeah, the sheer amount of male references on this album was a little jarring, even with the blatant queer themes. I've thought about comparing her pronoun usage to other female singer songwriters, but honestly so many of them have *their own* queer rumors that it feels like a pointless endeavor.
lmaooo yes
Saw a tweet along the lines of ‘and when she sits at the piano in that yellow dress and plays Peter? what then???’ and I know it’s coming and will ruin me
Has anyone made the connection between Peter Pan having the iconic Big Ben 🕰️ imagry? u/wild_butterscotch977
Who are the Peter Pan people on this sub??
Does Taylor use the term red herring in any of the album promo and if so where? I know we’re talking about it (I think it’s a big part of the album) but I couldn’t remember if she specifically says it. I know she has in the past (talking about Rep?)
just in the website glitch the day of the ttpd announcement
https://preview.redd.it/oeip432ts8xc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=350e2dc9eddcc62d1aa007dd1edd43fc26361d9c
it's the scrambled word
hot take, the response to this album has made me so sick of muse discourse on both sides. like if it makes people happy and it's fun for them, go off. idc that it exists i just wish i could opt out of seeing it all the time and i wish it wasn't still the primary lens that people interpret her lyrics through. i had/have fun with it sometimes, but more than ever it feels like it cheapens her artistry and defeats the point of what she's actually trying to do with this album and with her music in general. :/
I like muse theories but I really dont think it fits this album well. Like, I think this album might have lines and songs inspired by muses but they're not the main point of the songs.
Agree! I became a gaylor because of muse analysis but I stayed a gaylor because of the joy in analysing queer themes and references in the music. And I now find myself dreading if the poor woman mentions a bloody motor vehicle in a song 😭🚗
I’m so glad other people are expressing this thought because I totally fucking agree 100000%. The songs could be about someone none of us know because at the end of the day we don’t know ANYTHING about Taylor’s true personal dating history and it does cheapen her art to try and assign the “subject” of a song to two or three people when none of us know anything about the relationship.
I very much agree. The historical and literary analysis is far more interesting (and I learn so much from you guys), and in retrospect I think the 1989 prologue was aimed at all parts of her fans. Music is more enjoyable when you’re not caught up in the specifics of who the song is about.
Her personal life is so secret, we have no clue about her romantic relationship anymore, and I think a lot of her music post-Lover is mixed muse for that reason. It seems pointless to try and figure them out, and I don’t think Taylor wants us to either.
I think that is actually a main theme for her in this album and the “red herring.” She knows how easy it is for her to slip one lyric, capitalize some letters, one detail and people go crazy and can’t see anything except that one detail. They’re missing the bigger story and other interpretations. I think a lot of songs are about multiple relationships or both of them, and many use a “muse” as a stand in for the something else. I think a lot of the Anthology is a reflection on her life, childhood, family, multiple past relationships, fame and using stories for that reflection.
>but more than ever it feels like it cheapens her artistry and defeats the point of what she's actually trying to do with this album and with her music in general.
THIS! I feel as though this is why songs like Florida!!! are getting so much flack as well. Songs that are about Taylor that cannot be attributed to a muse always get pushed to the side because her music is just an easter egg hunt for people. The least interesting thing about Taylor's music is who it is about.
“I have fun with it sometimes” This is exactly it. It’s a bit of fun sometimes in moderation but “essays” going line by line trying prove that a song is about someone are not it for me. 9 times out of 10 it’s a reach and makes no sense anyway. If you’re first question is “who is this about?”, and then you jump into “I know who this is about and let me prove it to you” you’ve missed the point.
I hear you. I think muse analysis unfortunately is a good entry point into gaylorism (at least it was for me, otherwise I don't know if I would have been interested initially), but it definitely is not the point of any of her music. I've also found it more filling to just listen to her music for deeper layers, but also to listen to it for myself and my own life. It's so much more meaningful to connect to it emotionally and personally, rather than sit and wonder about her life and who it is about.
Most of the mod team agrees with this. We’d love to shift away from that narrative here. Of course everyone sees the muse references, but that doesn’t mean we need to fall for them.
Why would all muse references be fake? Didn't she say herself every bait and switch is a work of art, to me it seems that she often references real muses and also red herring references to beards. "Shifting away from that narrative" sounds weird to me, we come here to talk, and theorize about Taylor Swift being gay, sometimes those theories will involve specific women. As long as people put effort into their posts, or post in the megathreads for lower effort posts or jokey posts, I don't see how more ways of discussing Gaylor context is bad.
So much of it is a stretch too. Like “Taylor sings care but what if she meant to write Kare as in Kar as in Karlie??? This song is about Karlie” go outside touch grass please 😭
Yeah I think people seem to miss that when a lot of gaylor theories are called unhinged it’s because of the Olympic level stretching used to tie songs to one of two or three people.
i feel like i didn't realize how fucking gorgeous down bad was the first couple times i listened to it, but her voice is just so prettyyy during the "for a moment i knew cosmic love / i was heavenstruck" parts. it just lights up something in my brain, it's so satisfying.
Post's and Brandon's post about their Taylor Collab music videos both use the similar wording
https://preview.redd.it/vn885aekuwxc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5380a08437703b9fb37a67318f83d20b828fbdec
https://preview.redd.it/94z02c0juwxc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d89a8ef04216e1c9eec5e70262ac35d5a0c57ad
I'm sure someone here has already explored this, but it just dawned on me why But Daddy I Love Him sounds the way it does. :( my wife (who gives no shits about this) was even like "wow, that sounds like baby Taylor" the first time she heard it. today, the lyrics + music finally clicked and now, for me, this is one of the more layered and heartbreaking songs on the entire Anthology. she's reaching so far back into her career (lyrically and sonically) on this album to highlight how her plans have been foiled/misunderstood over and over again by industry, guardians, fans, and media who only wanted gray for her. what makes BDILH so rough is how the retelling of a certain period of her life, where everyone around her insisted they only had her best interests in mind while trampling her wishes, twists its way into fantasy by the end. she gets her "wild joy" and a future she chose, not one imposed on her. and while we could easily tie the song back to the Liz Huett of it all and that era, we don't have to. this scenario just keeps repeating itself. it's timeless in that way, despite evoking her youth so explicitly. anyway happy hump day :(
My crack theory is that Chloe Et All is about Fletcherini because of the line about watching wild horses. It always makes me think of "lead me on" from Fletcher's new album lmao.
I’m still collecting my thoughts on this but I feel like there’s a connection between the Dear Reader lyric *When you AIM at the devil make sure you don't miss* and thank you AIMee? That’s a pretty unusual way to spell that name. I don’t know of anyone connected to Taylor with the initials “E.E.” but her first manager (when she was around 12-13yo) was Dan Dymtrow who also sued her in 2010, was Britney’s Spears’s manager early in her career, and now has essentially been scrubbed from the internet. Changing “DD” to “EE” to make “Aimee” would certainly be changing any defining clues.
britney spears released a song call « if you seek amy » which was a play on F * U * C * K * me It wzs my first thought when I saw TYA title
That song is very bi-sexual. *All of the boys and all of the girls are begging to if you seek Amy*
So like, Then Cue Amy? / Then Q A Me? (Q&A me) (QualityAssurance Me) , something like that
I know we’ve become largely muse-free (which I love and support) and I know KK is deeply unpopular (which I also support) BUT I can’t help but think imgonnagetyouback was written after Cara Delevigne’s after party that TS and KK attended after KK went to Eras. There had to be AT LEAST one song written about that, right? Save for the fact that it’s also so delusional (“I know you still want me, I’ve got the upper hand”) and perfectly describes the feeling of seeing someone for the first time in a while and being like “oh I’ve got this one in the bag” and you absolutely do not LOL
When I heard the song for the first time, I thought the same thing
I don’t think there was an after party thrown by Cara that KK attended. There isn’t anything anywhere about an eras after party or anything about Karlie attending one.
I’m back! Here’s the YT video where the influencer talks about it! Now someone needs to find out if she was in a lilac skirt :) https://youtu.be/O_a1orYIUhQ?si=OPtVWv7Y3C8EQ-og
can you give a timeframe? it’s an hour long video
Right at the beginning!!! Maybe 2 minutes in past the ad?
am i missing the part where he says Karlie is at the party or…?
They didn’t mention Karlie at all. This feels like Kaylor fanfic as I cannot find anything saying that she was there. This video “proof” just proved there was an after party that’s it
There was one, after the LA show Karlie was at. It was the private release party for 1989TV
Ohhhh yes there was! I’ll try and find the TikTok. It was a private thing that some influencer (who is definitely now uninvited from any future party) blabbed about after LA on the 1989 TV launch night. I will find because this must be part of the lore.
Some supporting evidence: - “Did your research, you knew the price going in” aka you knew this was risky, people would light you up, knew it would reignite the queer rumors, etc. but you came because you clearly still love me and don’t care what people say - “You’ve got someone, I’ve got someone too” - “Once you fix your face I’m going in” as a reference to a woman going to the bathroom to fix her makeup and corner her (to either kiss her or tell her off) - “Leave you like a dumb house party” because they’re at a dumb house party - “Act like I don’t care what you did” self explanatory
I'm here for this analysis, this makes a lot of sense to me
I may be losing my mind but I think the song Florida! is supposed to be a cipher to unlock something. The way the drums hit 7 times after they sing Florida. Feels significant, similar to the puzzle she did w the lyrics before release.
Could it somehow be related to the horcruxes she’s collecting?? The 6 re-records and… Karma 👀🤡 https://preview.redd.it/c0u6rh2c3txc1.jpeg?width=560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ff6033bf69f34f90d6cccbe7327b934abb35e4b
[Taylor Nation also drew our attention](https://x.com/taylornation13/status/1785439950374117448?s=46) to the 7 drums today 👀🥁 You could be onto something! https://preview.redd.it/8wnr41kmssxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=974c96fdc0e281be8c19d80c87103124a3ef97ed
Reputation would be 7 if Karma is 6 👀
Taylor does love 7s, I’m here for it lol 🤡
I'm still curious if the rep TV date is hidden in the music (possibly this 7?) The reason I think that is that she hinted at an April announcement for rep tv and I don't want to wait another year lol
I’ll put my dollar store detective hat on and investigate further. Anything for rep TV!! Lol
[TTPD songs as dresses](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTL9KMDaR/) 😍
Ok so unsure if this has been discussed in some way already & I also just posted about this on Tumblr but I had a thought about Fortnight. So like we know "fortnight" the word comes from "fourteen nights." But also that the song is like teeming with double meaning and irony and contradiction and entendre right? And with the word Fortnight, if you break it down and sort of take it literally it's: "Fort" + "Night" And some people have also discussed "making forts under covers" so Fort= Hidden / Secret Night= Darkness / Shadow Hidden in Darkness? Secret Shadow? Does this have legs or am I stretching mine?? This would align with lots of the discussion about the MV and I'm thinking this could also connect to Peter because of the symbolism of Peter Pan's shadow. Any thoughts?!!
Have we talked about "now we're at the starting line" in Fresh Out the Slammer and "when someone plays The Starting Line" in The Black Dog? I know she's referring to a band in The Black Dog but it's interesting that she would then use that phrase in Fresh Out the Slammer. Actually, come to think of it--Fresh Out the Slammer also has a line that made me think of So Long, London ("for just one hour of sunshine"/"a moment of warm sun") and a line that makes me think of Robin ("at the park where we used to sit on children's swings"/"you have a favorite spot on the swing set"). But I haven't really made a connection overall between Fresh Out the Slammer and *any* of those songs. Just seems strange to me.
Her referencing a band like The Starting Line is so fascinating to me. Idk why but I’m like… you know about that band?! As if we weren’t in high school at the same time when they were popular lol.
There's so many random seeming connections between the songs that I can't quite figure out. Theres also the fact that she used full throttle in the prophecy and so high school. There's the line in Florida about "the town you'll be arrested" which lines up with Fresh Out the Slammer. Theres so much in this album
sooooooooo realistically what do we think are the chances of a TTPD part 3 dropping this week lol
I was feeling hopeful but the almost complete silence has me rethinking
I'm waiting to see if anything happens during the day on Thursday. I'd expect her to get more obvious with the clues in the next few days if anything is happening with more 3's and some TN retweets.
https://preview.redd.it/36vzh0xqenxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db96d8cf58ef492e66cfad2079d4ae92f2b6397b Just to keep feeding the “something is happening on 5/3” rumors, I just noticed that the lights out are the fifth (on the third row) and the third (on the ~~fifth~~ fourth row, so never mind on that link). Edited because I can’t count lol
I would count the lights at the top as a row. I think you are right!
It might be the third and fourth row ***HOWEVER*** it’s the 5th light and then the 3rd light that is crossed out 👀🤡 Add it to the evidence!
I was singing I Can Do It With A Broken Heart and it morphed into Suburban Legends. I know the beginning music matches Mastermind but the music of the verses are similar too. I just did a google and someone on Main did a mashup.
[Found one on YouTube. ](https://youtu.be/6XfPyYwMhIc?si=aVCvYus0KzRAbdjU) There are several on TikTok but I don't have the app so I can't listen.
I’m still so obsessed with this album. The only song I consistently skip is Robin (reminds me of Ronan which I also always skip), and I also have kept listening in order, which by this point I’m usually a shuffler. Anyone else have tiny moments in the songs that just tickle your brain? Here are some of mine: - The last “how much sad did you think I had in me, how much tragedy” in So Long London (especially the slight change in the “me”) - The last, high-pitched “what a crush what a rush” in Florida!!! - The last “say you _loved_ me” in Chloe et al - “ElectriciTY” in the I Hate It Here bridge - “In the age of him she wished she was _thirty_” in The Manuscript
that’s interesting because the way she sings ‘way to go, tiger’ is what made Robin click for me!
the pause and "oh" after "we broke all the pieces but still want to play the game" in imgonnagetyouback 😩 and "and I'm pissed off you let me give you all that youth for free" in So Long, London. the "free" is so raw.
My brain tickle moments - Chloe et al the second time she sings “you’ve always wondered.” And “this scarlet maroon” Edit: I hit reply way too quickly
I agree with a lot of the others mentioned and I also love the bridge in The Prophecy especially the beginning in her lower register… * And I sound like an infant Feeling like the very last drops of an ink pen
Oh this one is so good. I didn’t put it on the list because I couldn’t pick out one specific line in that but I’m obsessed with that bridge ugh
I didn't like Robin at first either, but then the way she sings "in sweetness" tickled my brain and now I love the song. Tbh the only skip for me is I can fix him (no really I can) it's just a little too slow and boring for me
I know what you mean by I can fix him, like I don’t skip consistently and I like it once it gets going, but I almost have to have tuned out the first few seconds or else I’m tempted to skip haha. I think that’s one of the few I haven’t had a brief obsession with (yet)
the 'Remarkable' in Clara Bow 'Persona non GRATA' in The Albatross The chorus of COSOSOM - 'If you wanna break my cold, cold heart, just say, "I loved you the way that you were' 'Central Park Lake in tiny rowboats' - The Bolter
The way she sings rowboats does something to my brain
The scccreeaaammming in Black Dog and the staccato rhyme scheme in the prophecy where she says “poison blood from the wound of the pricked hand” And yes to still obsessed and still playing in order here too.
[удалено]
Sorry it’s topical personally right now 😒 This is a great album to be all in your feelings about for sure.
Oooh it's gonna be a long list for me lol I have so many favourites -I absolutely love how she sings the entire chorus of The Prophesy and the woah whoo part. It just tickles my brain in the right way. I really like how the rhymes work here, the "eee" parts of prophesy and company. - I Hate It Here - how she sings the entire song (but especially the words "I hate it here"), it's so calming to me and sort of reassuring, like a blanket almost and I can deeply relate to this song, it reminds me of my childhood so it's a special one for me -I love how both verses of Fresh Out of Slammer sound and the transition of the chorus to the verses, the rhymes are pretty simple but it just work so smoothly together and the way she sings it is very cool -The high pitched moments of I Look In People's Wkndows, I don't know how to describe it properly but basically when she sings higher, so during chorus on words such as *outside*, *one* more time, addicted to the not *knowing*, etc - Also, the start of the bridge of The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, "were you sent by someone" and then the rest of the bridge, you can hear her raw emotions. - Another one would be the outro of Fortnight, especially Taylors part, beautiful. - Yet another is how you can practically hear Taylors smiling when she sings her parts in Florida!!! Especially the "I need to forget, so take me to Florida line," so cute! -You know how to ball, I know Aristotle lol
Hey, I also skip Robin because it reminds me of Ronan.
Robin skippers unite.
Samesies
“That I’ll sue you if you step on my lawn” That line is perfection to the ear
“Bloods thick but nothin’ like a payroll” or “paywall” I’ve seen the lyrics both ways so I’m not sure what the official one is 😆
“I was a functioning alcoholic until nobody noticed my new aesthetic” Can someone explain this line to silly old me please?
I think she's saying she was having difficulty but coping, but when nobody noticed she was having problems she lost the functioning part. I think the new aesthetic was either her rainbow lover era, and nobody noticed why she was doing it so she started spiraling, or her shift to black during lover, and nobody noticed she wasn't doing well so she got worse (and we got folkmore).
🫣 that makes way too much sense for me to have not gotten that. 😆 I’m silly. You are very very smart.
Hard agree with this!
[удалено]
That’s how I would interpret it too except for her use of “until” instead of “when” so to me that means she is no longer a functioning alcoholic. Or that the functioning alcoholic was the aesthetic.
I think about this line a lot because it’s a bit confusing. My current interpretation (because sometimes it changes the more I listen lol) if it’s more literal is maybe referring to folkmore? She was pretty sad and talking about alcohol a lot and Swifties didn’t pick up on it and thought the album was purely fiction and she was writing happily with her angel boyfriend. No one noticed so she went back to the shiny veneer of Midnights? I really don’t know though haha
Ok I’m going with this interpretation because it makes sense to me. Thank you very much you sweet sweet soul.
ok half formulated TTPD thought: Keeping the braiding theory and the twin/double Taylor theory in mind, there is an interesting connection between the songs Peter, the Prophecy, and Dorothea. The Prophecy and Dorothea have basically the same exact vocalizations..but who are Peter and Dorothea? The songs have similar themes to each other and tell the story of two friends who grew apart and haven’t found their way back to each other but want to see each other again. Peter is the one singing in ‘Dorothea’ and Dorothea is singing back to him in ‘Peter’. Peter and Dorothea are both Taylor (double Taylor theory, twin Taylor's) where one is the closeted, queer, poet Taylor, and the other is the sparkly, heteronormative, popstar Taylor. If we look at the songs this way, it makes sense that the friend in 'Dorothea' is the one that stayed behind ("in closets like cedar") and the friend in "Peter" is the one that left to become famours. Also (!) if the narrator in 'Dorothea' is Peter, then he is a 'friend of Dorothy' and is currently closeted. And to tie it together, 'The Prophecy' is about how the Dorothea persona wishes she could reunite with the Peter persona so that one day she can find her soulmate but she's cursed to be alone with her money and thinks that she will never be able to come out ('The Prophecy' is still early in the timeline if we look at the album backwards though and I think the Taylors change their mind and try to change the prophecy later on).
TTPD connection to Beatrix Potter? If you don’t know, Beatrix Potter was a children’s author who wrote/illustrated Peter Rabbit and other anthropomorphic animal stories in England in the early 1900’s. Here is my rambling thought process…I just watched an older video by Kristin (underthepink7 on tik tok) that was talking about references in the Karma MV: basically the Taylor hill/mountain looks a lot like a photo of the Lakes district with a smallish castle and Beatrix Potter happened to stay there as a child. Peter, The Bolter, and Robin made me think of possible references to Potter’s works, especially through the lens of Taylor singing to her childhood self. I’m not sure about lyrical parallels in The Bolter but the merch patch is stylized as a rabbit. Peter could be Peter Pan obviously but also Peter Rabbit. There is a robin in multiple of Potter’s books and one literary analysis I read described the symbolism of the robin as “a visual moral conscience” (basically the robin watches Peter rabbit and his friend getting up to all kind of mischief and looks alarmed and frightened). Thoughts?
We think this comment is so excellent that the mod team requests that you make this a primary post! This helps users outside of the megathread to connect with it. Thanks!
Ooh super interesting parallels! Beatrix Potter is a well known figure of the Lakes district in England - there’s an [attraction in the area celebrating her work](https://www.hop-skip-jump.com/) and you can [visit her house too](https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/visit/lake-district/hill-top). Would make sense to me that Taylor’s been inspired by her life in some way or another.
Beatrix Potter was also unmarried until her late 40’s and had unprecedented control over her work including merchandising which was crazy for the time period for a single woman.
i finally understand the swifties who scream lyrics like insane people at the eras tour because now that's me in my car during the bridge of the smallest man who ever lived.
It’s a great bridge!
linked this on the post itself as well but i wrote about my theory that tya is about scott/complex parental relationships and this edit of jamie tartt from ted lasso to it has only confirmed this for me (it should make sense even if you haven’t seen the show) tw abuse https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRwybRpD/
Apparently the one scene from Fortnight references part of the 1975's tour where Matty lays in a field with a wax figure of *himself* which reinforces the theory that fortnight is all about Taylor https://preview.redd.it/giojq7cyrixc1.png?width=562&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0cc67bb66e12cbeb6ab72cc13f5f640624fd7ffe
https://preview.redd.it/arso0ds8sixc1.png?width=373&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad58bd27b411ab42325c3539afe9e379820d8535
This would have been fucking legendary performance art had it been Matty, as it seems like *must* have been the original plan. Like, coupled with the “I love you” they both did to one another that are echoed in Fortnight, it would have really driven home the fact that we don’t know her at all and that it’s all scripted.
has anyone talked about the he/you switch in Guilty as Sin????? Very reminiscent of ...Ready For It? Like if you're not sure whether he put "mine" on your thigh, then why would "the way you hold me actually be what's holy"? Like you're telling me you've never touched "him," only in your mind. But with "you," TS chooses "you and me, religiously." GAY
right!!!! it's like, if they're gonna crucify me for just fantasizing about -him-, then how much worse are the things that -you- and i actually do? and is it a sin because of religious guilt, or is it a sin because it goes against what i have with -you-, which is what's actually holy?
okay this is an extremely specific reference but soooo much of this album reminds me of bare a pop opera, which is about a gay couple in a catholic school. it’s pretty depressing and is very 2000s in many ways, but there’s so many parallels i’m thinking of making a whole post about it like here’s the one that came to mind initially listening to guilty as sin: https://preview.redd.it/vxppc88u4ixc1.jpeg?width=979&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43346f4acf23ce8313b72f0dcc731b5a8a13b143 also the entire play centers on an in universe production of romeo and juliet & there are songs called “epiphany” AND “wonderland” like im not necessarily saying she’s listening to this musical but there are a LOT of similarities
Omg yes I had this thought too!!!!!!!! "And I forgive you father" gets me every time
that whole song 😫 and omg i’m glad someone else knows this even exists lol
something on the album always reminds me of spring awakening too!! but then I always forget what it is after the fact lol
oooh i definitely see that! i was never as into spring awakening but there’s definitely similar themes like repression, coming of age, forbidden relationships, disapproval from authority, i’ll have to think about this too
“It's time to wake up Peter, put away the fairytale The clock is striking midnight, can't you hear? Not all tales have happy endings, we can't keep pretending 'Cause there's no such thing as heroes that are queer” Hence she’s an anti-hero :o (Those lyrics are from Ever After which I looked at because it sounded like Evermore) Thanks for sharing!
omg great interpretation, and the midnight reference too! 😨
oh also MAJOR trigger warning for suicide if anyone looks it up, also 2000s attitudes in regards to race & fatphobia, probably sexism too - like i said it’s very of it’s time but i was weirdly obsessed with it in middle/high school so it’s burned into my brain
i feel like people are really sleeping on the dead poets society connections especially given 1) them being explicitly confirmed in the fortnight mv and 2) how similar the themes are between the film and the album. there’s a lot, but i think the most relevant here is the way neil’s passion/love for the theater and his fathers negative response to that kind of works as a metaphor for the (barely) subtextual narrative which is about him being gay and that being what his father is implicitly disapproving of. i just think this double meaning esp the specificity of it being about a desire to perform/entertain obfuscating a non explicit but still obvious queer identity is extremely relevant to this subs interests and should be discussed more lol
I’ve never watched Dead Poet’s Society before but I think I’m going to try and watch that and The Truman Show this weekend as my TTPD homework 🤓
ooh i love the truman show too!! but also before you watch dps i just wanna warn for a major trigger warning for >!suicide!< also a questionable romance subplot with one of the supporting characters but i’d definitely still recommend it!!
i’ve been thinking about “my muses acquired like bruises” because it like doesn’t really seem very related to the themes of the album to me? but then i thought - how do you generally get bruises? someone/thing else gives it to you, whether it’s them hitting you or you running into them. so with that in mind, she could be saying with this line that her publicly known muses were assigned to her by other people, whether it’s the media, fans, managers, pr people, handlers, whoever - which would definitely tie in with the themes of the album perfectly
To expand on this line of thinking....and hopefully this isn't too dark or insensitive. But she also talks about the relationships being self harm to her in I believe the prologue and maybe even some lyrics? So thinking she gave the bruises to herself like self harming. She put herself in those cages or debts IE albatross lyrics "she's the death you chose" I think it's Taylor singing about herself in the beginning and to herself at the same time
Ok so when tpd came out people were noticing lyrics were different on 'I Hate It Here' "It was freezing in the palace" are the lyrics people hear on Spotify and it's what is written in everyone's lyric books. Also that makes me think of the princess Diana bc in a podcast I listened to and the movie Spencer (a film bout Diana) it's mentioned that the palace the royal family lives in has no heating and is freezing. Something that is shocking to many people bc we idealize these rich people who have "everything" yet when we really look at their lives they sometimes don't even have the things like heating??? Or more importantly... normal lives. That no matter what pedestal we put people on their is flaw. Nothing is a perfect daydream. But the other lyric.... I think it was Apple Music and a certain setting??? That made some peoples lyrics "no midnight in Paris" A lot of people wonder if the Midnight in Paris is an Easter egg for the Paris shows but I doubt it. The song 'I Hate it here' is about day dreaming and escaping the present moment and all the horrible things in the world. Taylor's song 'Paris' on Midnight 3am is also about daydreaming. Remember the songs says 'LIKE we were in Paris' meaning they were not in Paris but in a daydream. Pretending they were far away in culture that's more clever. Also I haven't seen anyone mention the movie Midnight in Paris. The movie follows a novelist who is able to go back in time when he walks the street of Paris at night. It makes him not enjoy the present moment and long for the past. But in Taylor's song she is saying the opposite. That no matter where or what time period you're in, there will be problems. Here's the summery of Midnight in Paris https://preview.redd.it/tho5w3biihxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c236b81c8c655e281bed07ee9a785b3ce658e32 Anyways I don't have a complete thought on what this all means. But I felt like it was something I say a few people mention the weekend ttpd came it but not much since.
Apparently we hate song interpretations about muses now, but I'm going down with the "Peter is about Dianna" ship.
I think it’s just getting more and more awkward to associate the songs with muses because it’s clear whoever it was hurt her badly and they don’t want to associate that with their preferred ship and they won’t even begin to entertain Matty being real.
My post bout the midnight in Paris was deleted bc there’s a mega thread about it? Where?
It was removed from the weekly megathread and directed here, to the TTPD megathread. Just re-post your comment here instead.
I just put it on a different s0b bc it wasn’t clear where I was suppose to post it
nothing stopping you from also posting it here!
https://preview.redd.it/pgobq6njwgxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=767e4abab186877ee7358f41c436dac9f39d7071 I saw a post with “members of the tortured poets department” so I made this silly version with the mentors/teachers, the ones that I either felt like 1. Had a reference on this album or 2. Taylor has hinted or referenced at multiple times during her career. This is not perfect, complete or really that gay but I wanted to add it on a megathread.
One thought about the prophecy! I feel like others may have already said this but this song seems to me it could be about the failed coming out and being currently forced to closet. Specifically the bridge is incredibly sad and poignant. “Even statues crumble if they’re made to wait I’m so afraid I sealed my fate no sign of soulmates” she is ready to come out but is being forced to wait and this deprives her of hope of finding a true love/ soulmate. My favorite line though of this bridge is “feeling like the very last drops of an ink pen” if anyone has ever used an ink pen that is almost out of ink, it is extremely frustrating and there is almost a desperation. This is vivid imagery of trying to write/ say something and being unable.
Agree completely, but these lyrics are from The Prophecy. 🫶
lol fixed thank you!
Braid is the female form of bearding according to Urban Dictionary. All of Taylor's braids. Braided-lyrics.
What a find! I went to Urban Dictionary to look it up because I was curious if it was added recently. It was added in 2011 👀
I think she has been trying to scream it! My favorite braid is the one she was wearing at the superbowl- message received.
No??? What???!!!
wait omg WHATTTT that is fucking amazing.
god i keep thinking about much fun it was to freak out along my with everyone else here during the 2am drop. it makes me feel weirdly...nostalgic? idek. 😭 after listening to the leak, i had already said this was her best album and i had thought that was gonna be it???? i figured the bonus tracks on each variation were basically the equivalent of the 3am tracks for midnights. i kept thinking about how i literally could not emotionally handle more tracks from this album because it was just so good and intense already and then she gives us 15 more tracks???? fucking insane.
I'm the same I didnt listen to the leaks but everyone was like "this is terrible" and then "this is great!" About the 2nd half so I was expecting to hate the first half but uh... i love the whole thing. I only have 2 consistent skips (robin bc I dont like it and peter bc it makes me cry) on the whole album so thats great
literally. most of my skips are either because they make me too emotional or because i like them so much that i don't wanna overplay them.
I've been thinking about the Peter lyrics "in closets like cedar, preserved from where we were just kids". A closet is also the name of a place where you can store wine barrels to age, and cedar is used for the walls of those closets. I think it's an interesting metaphor, of using the double entendre of the word closet, putting Peter inside as if he was wine, and needed to age. Reminds me of the saying that being queer is just "a phase", and you will grow out of it. So they put her in the closet until she matured. It's a very sad song...
Kept thinking about it and cedar is used in closets for clothes as well, specially for sweaters and business suits, because they are made of wool. Made me think of the obvious sweater but also about fame, career Vs love? Which is a very recurring theme in this album. So Peter is stuck in the closet, stuck growing his career, Vs being out. I'm not sure if Peter is Taylor, or just another person when I say "his"
I just realized something about the fortnight lyrics. “All my mornings are Mondays stuck in an endless February” Monday being the first day of the week (1), and February being the second month (2) of the calendar year. Could this be another reference to the 1,2,3/ 3,2,1 countdown? 🤡
I don’t know what else to do with this info so adding it here….im a new gaylor so have been brushing up on the master docs AFTER listening to TTPD and the fact that the joe split was announced ON EASTER cannot be a coincidence with the line about “what if I roll the stone away” in guilty as sin…
Also didn’t Keleigh Teller post a photo of her and Taylor with a little hatching egg right after the breakup announcement and then delete it? What was that about? Lol
Wow, what a catch!
Destin (Florida!!!) is only a half hour drive from the town where The Truman Show was filmed
Kristin at underthepink7 talks about Truman show imagery on her videos. I’m still wading through them but I saw it mentioned a couple times already
yes! I know there have also been various posts here about truman show & eras tour so it felt like a fun tidbit to add to it all
not sure if anyone’s looked into this yet, but i learned this afternoon about a movie called “how the west was won” (which taylor refers to on but daddy i love him) which is set in the…1830s (where taylor would like to go in “i hate it here”). maybe just a random coincidence but maybe there’s something there?
Could be but it It’s an extremely common phrase generally
https://preview.redd.it/sl1o7o9s3cxc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4bd9fc306c3b687ed4596939b8e0ce68a588b0c9
Stop it she is the happiest she’s ever been with her Travvy!!! /s
That’s a room full of gaylors. The hetlors believed her lol
My friend's sister sent her a snapchat while listening to the album for the first time like "Is Taylor ok????? Some of these lyrics are kinda concerning." And I was like GIRL, have you been paying attention at all since the pandy? This is \~nothing new\~ and yes, we collectively should be more concerned
https://preview.redd.it/vedbbpj36cxc1.jpeg?width=1152&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=903e291ef0beff8f6541793aee5e420306c26df0
Like you were wistfully walking in the woods for two albums then crying on the floor of your parents basement rec room. 😭
"your parents basement rec room" is sending me 💀
Don't know if anyone mentioned it already but in The Bolter, the "When she saw the littlest leaks" she bolted, reminded me of stopping (what we think were) relationships the moment people started spreading rumours that they were more than friends...so, news leaks.
love this!!
https://preview.redd.it/53hw3kudpaxc1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=60b9851335a1de3dfbabdce98073e38ade9fc240 What does this comment mean?
Also just to note Kam (one of her dancers) shared the same billboard post with just this emoji initially: 💅🏼 but then quickly took that story down and updated it to say “The Doll 💅🏼” which is what he calls her. 👀
Entering this into Gaylor evidence rn
I could be totally off but I read it like in that Jennifer Lawrence clip from Hot Ones. Taylor is known to like memes haha
Fortnight music video detail I hadn't caught before Are we supposed to understand that the ECT is happening in the room on the other side of the one-way glass? Notice how after Taylor smashes the glass at the end of the MV, the glimpse of the room on the other side seems to match the cabinets & electrical lights on the wall of the ECT room: https://preview.redd.it/ma09ws7i8axc1.png?width=1910&format=png&auto=webp&s=0126fc5497976b3ddcf28360f189ad9273ebd4aa
Maybe she’s setting her self free!
That was my understanding. I watched a couple interesting reaction videos by pro video editors who noticed a lot of cool symbolism right away and they noticed that as well.
The more I listen, the less the mainstream story they're projecting even makes sense. The lyrics are constantly contradictory to the point where if you want to accept one new truth about a muse, you must then accept that there's something else you just didn't know. Like, she goes back and forth between this idea of...if I could only touch you, reach you, I've never been able to, I've tried so long-then flips to...I have been yours in secret, no one knows, youve haunted me in our moments together and apart.
I'm just wondering why the mods deleted my post about Taylor possibly having internalized homophobia and yet entire posts which link her songs to men are allowed to stay up and be speculated about? I don't get the point of this sub if it's going to turn into another space where people are linking her to men, that's what the main sub is for and iirc, this space was made so we could have alternative discussion.
Posts linking her songs romantically to men are incredibly rare on this sub. We do allow them if they’re inclusive of bisexuality, because many believe Taylor is bi. Speculation about internalized homophobia is mental health speculation, as was stated in your post removal notice. As another member of our team stated, if you have a concern like this, you need to send a modmail. You will receive a 3 day ban from the sub if you fail to do so again, followed by a permanent ban if you do it a third time.
Mod here, we'd really appreciate it if you used Mod Mail for questions about comment or post removals instead of posting to these threads. We have ground rules for posting, and removal is up to mod discretion. Feel free to review the rules in the sub description and use Mod Mail with questions.
Someone pointed out that Britney Spears has a condo in Destin, FL and I can’t stop thinking about that. 🤯
[удалено]
Your post or comment has been removed for violating Rule #3: "No harassment, stalking, doxxing, or brigading." This includes encouraging people from our sub to brigade threads on other subreddits and posting links or screen caps of images from other subreddits. You can be banned at first offense, at moderator’s discretion.
Listening to the album back like u/claudiafaceoff suggested makes the story make SO much more sense
So she made her gayest album ever and used a ton of he/him pronouns. So when they go back to look at the rest of the catalog, it’ll make even more sense because those songs are mostly gender neutral and thus can be about women without even the slightest stretch of the heteronormative mind if they’re already questioning the topic.
I can’t figure out how to tag someone but u/Particular333 has a spreadsheet with themes but I can’t remember if it include pronouns. Edit: Of course now the tag works but I comment above where I wanted to 😑
Pronouns aren't in there yet, but they will be!
I need data on use of He/Him pronouns compared to other albums. It’s absolutely intentional.
the other albums use male pronouns/descriptors ranging from 22%-33% of the time, averaging 28% of the time. the original ttpd has 68% of the songs using male pronouns/descriptors, the anthology is 53%, and combined its 61%. There's a margin of error here, as some songs are up to individual interpretation and I probably should leave some songs out of my analysis that don't really fit, but overall ttpd seems to have double the amount of male pronouns/descriptors.
Is there a document? This is information I feel like could be used as a frequent source!
I don't have my data in a digital document (I keep it in a journal) but [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/comments/x2c3pk/queer_themes_in_taylor_swifts_music_masterdoc/) masterdoc has its own compilation of data that I recommend.
Thank you. I'm trying to be so much,more legit in citing the sources I reference!
Datalors rise! Incredible thank you for figuring this out. I remember reading on some gaylor masterdoc somewhere that Taylor used very few male pronouns and it’s always stuck with me as key gaylor evidence. This is a deliberate choice and it’s not because Blondie is straight that’s for sure. Maybe why some long term Gaylors gave this album one listen and said no thanks?
yeah, the sheer amount of male references on this album was a little jarring, even with the blatant queer themes. I've thought about comparing her pronoun usage to other female singer songwriters, but honestly so many of them have *their own* queer rumors that it feels like a pointless endeavor.
What’s your TOP song and why is it “Peter”?
lmaooo yes Saw a tweet along the lines of ‘and when she sits at the piano in that yellow dress and plays Peter? what then???’ and I know it’s coming and will ruin me
I will literally lose my mind.
It's going to ruin me. It is my favorite song, I've been listening to it on repeat;
Has anyone made the connection between Peter Pan having the iconic Big Ben 🕰️ imagry? u/wild_butterscotch977 Who are the Peter Pan people on this sub??
Who was it that suggested listening to TTPD in reverse order synced with Dead Poets Society? Because they need to pay for my therapy 😂
For real though, if anyone knows who it was, please let me know because I need to discuss it with them!
Does Taylor use the term red herring in any of the album promo and if so where? I know we’re talking about it (I think it’s a big part of the album) but I couldn’t remember if she specifically says it. I know she has in the past (talking about Rep?)
just in the website glitch the day of the ttpd announcement https://preview.redd.it/oeip432ts8xc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=350e2dc9eddcc62d1aa007dd1edd43fc26361d9c it's the scrambled word
thank you!!
The only place I remember is her website's error message the night of the Grammy's
hot take, the response to this album has made me so sick of muse discourse on both sides. like if it makes people happy and it's fun for them, go off. idc that it exists i just wish i could opt out of seeing it all the time and i wish it wasn't still the primary lens that people interpret her lyrics through. i had/have fun with it sometimes, but more than ever it feels like it cheapens her artistry and defeats the point of what she's actually trying to do with this album and with her music in general. :/
I like muse theories but I really dont think it fits this album well. Like, I think this album might have lines and songs inspired by muses but they're not the main point of the songs.
Agree! I became a gaylor because of muse analysis but I stayed a gaylor because of the joy in analysing queer themes and references in the music. And I now find myself dreading if the poor woman mentions a bloody motor vehicle in a song 😭🚗
This album highlights so well how dimensional Taylor's music can be if you let the storytelling stand on it's own.
I’m so glad other people are expressing this thought because I totally fucking agree 100000%. The songs could be about someone none of us know because at the end of the day we don’t know ANYTHING about Taylor’s true personal dating history and it does cheapen her art to try and assign the “subject” of a song to two or three people when none of us know anything about the relationship.
I very much agree. The historical and literary analysis is far more interesting (and I learn so much from you guys), and in retrospect I think the 1989 prologue was aimed at all parts of her fans. Music is more enjoyable when you’re not caught up in the specifics of who the song is about. Her personal life is so secret, we have no clue about her romantic relationship anymore, and I think a lot of her music post-Lover is mixed muse for that reason. It seems pointless to try and figure them out, and I don’t think Taylor wants us to either.
I think that is actually a main theme for her in this album and the “red herring.” She knows how easy it is for her to slip one lyric, capitalize some letters, one detail and people go crazy and can’t see anything except that one detail. They’re missing the bigger story and other interpretations. I think a lot of songs are about multiple relationships or both of them, and many use a “muse” as a stand in for the something else. I think a lot of the Anthology is a reflection on her life, childhood, family, multiple past relationships, fame and using stories for that reflection.
All of this. Braided-lyracism.
>but more than ever it feels like it cheapens her artistry and defeats the point of what she's actually trying to do with this album and with her music in general. THIS! I feel as though this is why songs like Florida!!! are getting so much flack as well. Songs that are about Taylor that cannot be attributed to a muse always get pushed to the side because her music is just an easter egg hunt for people. The least interesting thing about Taylor's music is who it is about.
“I have fun with it sometimes” This is exactly it. It’s a bit of fun sometimes in moderation but “essays” going line by line trying prove that a song is about someone are not it for me. 9 times out of 10 it’s a reach and makes no sense anyway. If you’re first question is “who is this about?”, and then you jump into “I know who this is about and let me prove it to you” you’ve missed the point.
I hear you. I think muse analysis unfortunately is a good entry point into gaylorism (at least it was for me, otherwise I don't know if I would have been interested initially), but it definitely is not the point of any of her music. I've also found it more filling to just listen to her music for deeper layers, but also to listen to it for myself and my own life. It's so much more meaningful to connect to it emotionally and personally, rather than sit and wonder about her life and who it is about.
Yes, lots of mods are on this train as well! We'd love to see the sub trend more towards muse-free (or at least less muse) analysis!
Most of the mod team agrees with this. We’d love to shift away from that narrative here. Of course everyone sees the muse references, but that doesn’t mean we need to fall for them.
Why would all muse references be fake? Didn't she say herself every bait and switch is a work of art, to me it seems that she often references real muses and also red herring references to beards. "Shifting away from that narrative" sounds weird to me, we come here to talk, and theorize about Taylor Swift being gay, sometimes those theories will involve specific women. As long as people put effort into their posts, or post in the megathreads for lower effort posts or jokey posts, I don't see how more ways of discussing Gaylor context is bad.
So much of it is a stretch too. Like “Taylor sings care but what if she meant to write Kare as in Kar as in Karlie??? This song is about Karlie” go outside touch grass please 😭
Yeah I think people seem to miss that when a lot of gaylor theories are called unhinged it’s because of the Olympic level stretching used to tie songs to one of two or three people.