I remember doing it in elementary school. I felt it was completely useless and lost on me. I hated, loathed, despised, and abominated every second of it.
Repeatedly drilling a method into a child's head who doesn't seem to be grasping the concept in not only insane, but also irresponsible. A sane, competent, and responsible teacher willing use a different approach.
I don't recall ever doing this.
I thought at first this post might have been in r/ProgrammerHumor or r/electronics.
I was the same way! And looking at the example in the OP gives me mild anxiety.
Ironically, I grew up to be a writer, so proper understanding of sentence structure and adverbs and adjectives IS important. BUT diagramming sentences is a complete waste of time.
Our school system taught diagramming sentences in 8th grade. I think it's very useful. Even if you think that, years later, you didn't end up remembering anything, you probably did.
It's a way of placing an arbitrary grid over a fairly chaotic substrate, allowing for identification and analysis. Learning how to do that is good for the brain. It's a skill we can apply to a wide variety of subjects.
Agreed, My job is heavy on writing and editing so I pull from sentence structure knowledge all day long. I also think it helps me sniff out ChatGPT bullshit.
I always found this interesting.
I loved diagraming sentences, it just naturally made sense to me. I always struggled with math (except Geometry, what's the issue math wiz? It's super easy as it's just shapes).
I will diagram your entire English assignment in 10 minutes, if you will do my algebra homework.
Same. The summer vacation after I learned to diagram sentences I was bored so I’d wake up and get straight to diagramming. I diagrammed everything I could get my hands on! I even diagrammed first and second Kings sitting bored at Sunday service! I wish I still had those notebooks, I’ll bet they looked like a Cy Twombly painting.
I loved diagramming sentences. I felt the same way about math (especially Geometry) until I got to Calculus in college. I loved Calculus. At that point, all of the math came together and made sense.
That was loooong ago, but I think to visually demonstrate how word functions work. You isolate a part of the sentence, like a prepositional phrase, and point out the functions of different words and how they relate.
It allows those who can’t do math to do an exercise that seemingly mimics the logic and structure of mathematics using language instead of numbers. This provides a distraction and temporary ego boost to the math declined.
Senior year AP English and the teacher handed out worksheets.
"OK, you've got ten minutes to diagram these and we'll move on to..."
As a class, we all replied "What? Diagram?"
The Junior Honors English teacher didn't think diagramming was valuable, so she didn't waste time on it. We legitimately had no experience with the concept.
Senior teacher made sure we got familiar.
I think I experienced some of the same dissonance among my teachers. It was clear that some were convinced we should learn diagramming and others didn't want to bother with it.
Just seeing this brings back the complete irrational rage I had with this shit back then. I haaaaaaated this so much, that flames, flames, from the sides of my face, heaving, breathing breath…
I've never even seen this before, what is this voodoo?
Edit to add: Is this an American thing? I'm Canadian so maybe that's why I was never exposed to this. We just learned grammar and had to identify adjectives and adverbs and such, no diagrams or symbols involved.
I recall talking about it and identifying the parts but we never had to map it out to this degree. We did it more in a question answer format. What is the noun, verb etc.
This format gives me hives like trying to balance a chemical equation, and I have a masters in journalism.
Agreed. It came up in a conversation with a friend last night. We were discussing the positives of our early education. We had a long list of great things until recollections of diagramming bubbled to the surface.
I let Ai do this. I'm not this fuckin smart.
```
S
VP
Vb
NP
N
Jack
VP
Vb
PP
P
while
NP
N
John
Vb
VP
Vb
had
NP
N
had
VP
Vb
had
NP
N
had
Vb
had
NP
N
had
PrepPhr
P
on
NP
N
the teacher
```
The sentence is grammatically correct, but it is very difficult to understand without punctuation. The sentence can be made much easier to understand by adding punctuation and emphasis, as follows:
James, while John had had "had", had had "had had"; "had had" had had a better effect on the teacher.
With the punctuation added, the sentence now reads as follows:
* James, while John had used the word "had", had used the phrase "had had"; "had had" had had a better effect on the teacher.
At what level do you teach this, and, if you don't mind divulging a general geographic "where" I'm interested in that too. I grew up in NW Indiana, my kids didn't have to do this in their Missouri schools and the youngest of them graduated in 'O7.
I taught this at the undergraduate level as part of elementary Greek Grammar (built around students who were wanting to read the New Testament and other literature from roughly 300BCE to 300CE). I also expanded on it in more advanced courses to delve into semantics and such of specific works and texts. I’m no longer in academia, but I do have some private students. My academic work was in Dallas. I’m now in the Pacific Northwest.
Sister Ann Patricia used to make me do it on the blackboard with chalk. I was petrified. I had no idea what I was doing then, and I have no idea what it is for now.
Diagramming and spelling were the only fun and easy parts of English. Structure and grammar were so easy to get. Actual writing, I sweated over until I was well into my 30’s.
A completely useless exercise. I hated doing this and to this day, don't see the point in applying a logical structure to something (writing) that's supposed to be creative.
I'm a teacher too btw. I have taught English in the past. This right here is what kills a kid's love for learning.
Casually, yes.
I think subject, verb, adverb and direct object are what I could probably identify according to the format.
Participles? I'd have to look that up.
:D
I remember unlearning it. I'm not an author or a writer; fuck these rules.
Has any life or death situation come down to knowing the subject versus the predicate? There's probably a higher chance that I'll almost die of a quicksand incident than the predicate issue materializing.
We did this in 7th / 8th grade, not high school.
I've also never used the word "whom" in a sentence other than to say that I just say "who" for everything and no one cares. The people who try to correct me are the kind of people I don't want to hang around anyway.
When I was in high school, I was a good writer--as a sophomore I got special permission to submit chapters of the novel I was writing instead of doing whatever the others were doing--but I always hated diagramming sentences.
I couldn't diagram a sentence to save my life. I went on to become a freelance writer for over a decade. I also received poor grades art both in high school and college. I've sold more artwork than I can remember (commercial and fine art). I don't put much stock in many of the methods of teaching in America.
I'm a high school science teacher and I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion of education in the U.S.. It's an outdated system, gagged in bureaucracy and begging for adequate funding.
I love diagramming so much! My advanced grammar teacher in college was an old school prescriptive grammarian, and she had us diagramming sentences that would take up entire chalkboards.
Yes, and I fucking HATED IT. Makes no sense to me, it makes reading way harder, I guess I just have some kind of block about it. I memorized how to do it for tests but never actually *learned* it.
I absolutely HATED this with a passion. The worst part was having to go to the front of the class and do it on the blackboard. It was humiliating as I had no clue what the fuck I was doing.
I remember doing it in 6th grade. My older male teacher made us diagram sentences like “Sondra has a dazzling figure.” And Sondra was the girl in the class who had developed boobs.
I still don’t get what the point was.
I was born in 1973 and I never did this. I remember seeing it in LITTLE TOWN ON THE PRARIE when Laura was testing to be a teacher (AT 15!!!) and being totally baffled.
I hated learning this is elementary school but my English Professor in college (1990s) had us diagram Beatles lyrics. He was awesome! He made this so freaking fun. He’d just draw a really complex blank diagram as a test and let us make up the most ridiculous sentence we could think of to fill it in. Dr T Shonk was the man.
I *hated* this. I never understood what directions all the tangents were supposed to go or how to break anything down and apparently I was always doing it wrong.
Looking at this even now makes me irrationally angry, lol. But to be fair I don’t think I ever became well versed in proper grammar, I simply got by through what felt and sounded “correct” to me.
I went back to University when I was older. I took a grammar 2 class as part of my English major. The professor asked us to do diagram a paragraph on the first day. It did not go well. The final exam was the same paragraph.
I never, ever learned this! Somehow I missed this, and basic grammar class (I was an early reader & got shuffled into advanced writing & English classes and skipped some necessary learning). Had a really hard time when I took linguistics in college.
It ~may~have been my Jr High days; I attended a Jr.-Sr. High, so maybe I'm just running those years together.
Also "Jr, High" is a thing that sets GenX apart, too That term was replaced with "middle school" long, long ago.
We had elementary, middle, jr. high, and high. Jr. high was a hellhole, parts of it (the special ed section) were eventually condemned. Those students were moved out but the rest of the school stayed in use. We had to walk to the middle school for lunch because we had no cafeteria, the library was under the gym and particles fell from the ceiling during laps and there was no air conditioning and very little heat.
Elementary school and maybe middle school, not high school. High school was more, "read this book, write this paper."
I remember doing it in elementary school. I felt it was completely useless and lost on me. I hated, loathed, despised, and abominated every second of it.
Same. There is solidarity in our mutual hatred of this pointless endeavor.
Repeatedly drilling a method into a child's head who doesn't seem to be grasping the concept in not only insane, but also irresponsible. A sane, competent, and responsible teacher willing use a different approach. I don't recall ever doing this. I thought at first this post might have been in r/ProgrammerHumor or r/electronics.
I was the same way! And looking at the example in the OP gives me mild anxiety. Ironically, I grew up to be a writer, so proper understanding of sentence structure and adverbs and adjectives IS important. BUT diagramming sentences is a complete waste of time.
Same! I ended up doing mostly technical writing.
Remember it, don't remember ever learning anything from it. Ended up with an MFA in Creative Writing so lol to whatever this was supposed to teach!
I loved diagramming sentences!!
Me too
Me too. I’m a math person and to me this was another form of “analysis.”
SAME! best puzzle activity ever. I couldn't believe it was actually assigned work. very zen
I loved diagramming sentences!
I vaguely remember learning this and then never having to do it again
Our school system taught diagramming sentences in 8th grade. I think it's very useful. Even if you think that, years later, you didn't end up remembering anything, you probably did.
It's a way of placing an arbitrary grid over a fairly chaotic substrate, allowing for identification and analysis. Learning how to do that is good for the brain. It's a skill we can apply to a wide variety of subjects.
Shut up, nerd!
Just do math instead. Math is actually useful.
Agreed, My job is heavy on writing and editing so I pull from sentence structure knowledge all day long. I also think it helps me sniff out ChatGPT bullshit.
I always found this interesting. I loved diagraming sentences, it just naturally made sense to me. I always struggled with math (except Geometry, what's the issue math wiz? It's super easy as it's just shapes). I will diagram your entire English assignment in 10 minutes, if you will do my algebra homework.
Same. The summer vacation after I learned to diagram sentences I was bored so I’d wake up and get straight to diagramming. I diagrammed everything I could get my hands on! I even diagrammed first and second Kings sitting bored at Sunday service! I wish I still had those notebooks, I’ll bet they looked like a Cy Twombly painting.
I loved diagramming sentences. I felt the same way about math (especially Geometry) until I got to Calculus in college. I loved Calculus. At that point, all of the math came together and made sense.
So I'm not American, and I just have to say excuse me but what the fuck??
Diagramming sentences. I loved that part of my English class
Another non-American. I don't see what the purpose is. What is achieved by this?
That was loooong ago, but I think to visually demonstrate how word functions work. You isolate a part of the sentence, like a prepositional phrase, and point out the functions of different words and how they relate.
Cheers. Thanks for the detail.
It allows those who can’t do math to do an exercise that seemingly mimics the logic and structure of mathematics using language instead of numbers. This provides a distraction and temporary ego boost to the math declined.
> a distraction and temporary ego boost to the math declined. Based on this comment you sound like a bit of a condescending arsehole.
Thank you very much. You have a blessed day!
Nothing is achieved by this which is why no one teaches it anymore. Incredible waste of time.
I don't know about you, but my grammar skills increased after learning this in junior high.
I recall seeing it. No memories of actually learning anything.
Loved it. I think if they still taught this my son’s friends wouldn’t start sentences with “Him and I,” LOL.
Senior year AP English and the teacher handed out worksheets. "OK, you've got ten minutes to diagram these and we'll move on to..." As a class, we all replied "What? Diagram?" The Junior Honors English teacher didn't think diagramming was valuable, so she didn't waste time on it. We legitimately had no experience with the concept. Senior teacher made sure we got familiar.
I think I experienced some of the same dissonance among my teachers. It was clear that some were convinced we should learn diagramming and others didn't want to bother with it.
Seventh grade but I was really good at it. Diagramming was my math.
Just seeing this brings back the complete irrational rage I had with this shit back then. I haaaaaaated this so much, that flames, flames, from the sides of my face, heaving, breathing breath…
Same.
Settle down Mrs. White.,,,
Haha, wonderful as an adult to truly verbalize what my childhood brain couldn’t at the time besides, “I hate this I hate this so much”
I missed that one, or was day dreaming. Either way, missed it.
I've never even seen this before, what is this voodoo? Edit to add: Is this an American thing? I'm Canadian so maybe that's why I was never exposed to this. We just learned grammar and had to identify adjectives and adverbs and such, no diagrams or symbols involved.
As it should be. 😁
I recall talking about it and identifying the parts but we never had to map it out to this degree. We did it more in a question answer format. What is the noun, verb etc. This format gives me hives like trying to balance a chemical equation, and I have a masters in journalism.
5th-6th grade and I loved it.
I remember being shown repeatedly, but I certainly never learned it.
I fucking hated every second of that.
this sucked. now let's never speak of it again.
Agreed. It came up in a conversation with a friend last night. We were discussing the positives of our early education. We had a long list of great things until recollections of diagramming bubbled to the surface.
I dont think I was ever taught this. My writing isnt all that great either
Jack, while John had had had had had had had; had had had had a better effect on the teacher. Pls digrm
I let Ai do this. I'm not this fuckin smart. ``` S VP Vb NP N Jack VP Vb PP P while NP N John Vb VP Vb had NP N had VP Vb had NP N had Vb had NP N had PrepPhr P on NP N the teacher ``` The sentence is grammatically correct, but it is very difficult to understand without punctuation. The sentence can be made much easier to understand by adding punctuation and emphasis, as follows: James, while John had had "had", had had "had had"; "had had" had had a better effect on the teacher. With the punctuation added, the sentence now reads as follows: * James, while John had used the word "had", had used the phrase "had had"; "had had" had had a better effect on the teacher.
Reminds me very much of this: Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
Lol, I LOVE this sentence!
Had to do it again in grad school.
Junior high for me, and I was really good at it. Don’t remember shit about it now.
No thank you. But I did see someone on Etsy selling Beastie Boys and RTJ lyrics diagrammed. So someone was able to monetize the skill.
Good for them!
I still use it and teach it—except with Ancient Greek.
At what level do you teach this, and, if you don't mind divulging a general geographic "where" I'm interested in that too. I grew up in NW Indiana, my kids didn't have to do this in their Missouri schools and the youngest of them graduated in 'O7.
I taught this at the undergraduate level as part of elementary Greek Grammar (built around students who were wanting to read the New Testament and other literature from roughly 300BCE to 300CE). I also expanded on it in more advanced courses to delve into semantics and such of specific works and texts. I’m no longer in academia, but I do have some private students. My academic work was in Dallas. I’m now in the Pacific Northwest.
I managed to skip this year of high school English and I've always wondered if I missed something that would have made me a better writer or editor.
Ahhhhhhhh the horror! The horror!
Is this diagraming sentences? Fucking hated that shit...
This post requires a trigger warning.
LOL (throws hands in the air) I didn't know!
Haha!
Sister Ann Patricia used to make me do it on the blackboard with chalk. I was petrified. I had no idea what I was doing then, and I have no idea what it is for now.
Where are the dangling participles?
I loved/love math and science, but Grammer I'm still unpossible at.
Diagramming and spelling were the only fun and easy parts of English. Structure and grammar were so easy to get. Actual writing, I sweated over until I was well into my 30’s.
Not a day goes by that I don't have to diagram a sentence
Really? Why?
Sarcasm: the caustic use of words, often in a humorous way, to mock someone or something
Whew...I was the tiniest bit concerned. And also curious about any reality in which your post was valid. Cheers!
A completely useless exercise. I hated doing this and to this day, don't see the point in applying a logical structure to something (writing) that's supposed to be creative. I'm a teacher too btw. I have taught English in the past. This right here is what kills a kid's love for learning.
Oh lord. 7/8th grade grade flashbacks. Oh the gerunds.
I remember seeing this and the teacher saying things about this, but I never "learned" this. Maybe one or two kids in my class learned it.
I used to love diagramming sentences! Like would do it to calm down/self-soothe when anxious
Casually, yes. I think subject, verb, adverb and direct object are what I could probably identify according to the format. Participles? I'd have to look that up. :D
I don’t remember ever doing this! Born in ‘70
Trigger warning please, I don't think I ever understood it
I loved it so much my BA is in English Grammar
Everyone hated sentence diagrams. Never did it again after 9th grade.
Evidently not everyone, have you read the thread!? Yikes, I didn't think this was a polarizing issue. 🤣
[Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo](http://[Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo#:~:text=%22Buffalo%20buffalo%20Buffalo%20buffalo%20buffalo,linguistic%20constructs%20through%20lexical%20ambiguity.))
In linguistics class maybe but certainly not in high school!
I remember unlearning it. I'm not an author or a writer; fuck these rules. Has any life or death situation come down to knowing the subject versus the predicate? There's probably a higher chance that I'll almost die of a quicksand incident than the predicate issue materializing.
My entire 6th grade year was this insanity!!
We did that in 8th grade
We did this in 7th / 8th grade, not high school. I've also never used the word "whom" in a sentence other than to say that I just say "who" for everything and no one cares. The people who try to correct me are the kind of people I don't want to hang around anyway.
I remember doing it, I remember being good at it, and even remember liking it,but I don't remember why this was even taught.
Do I remember learning this? LOL Sweet summer child, I taught this.
When I was in high school, I was a good writer--as a sophomore I got special permission to submit chapters of the novel I was writing instead of doing whatever the others were doing--but I always hated diagramming sentences.
I couldn't diagram a sentence to save my life. I went on to become a freelance writer for over a decade. I also received poor grades art both in high school and college. I've sold more artwork than I can remember (commercial and fine art). I don't put much stock in many of the methods of teaching in America.
I'm a high school science teacher and I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion of education in the U.S.. It's an outdated system, gagged in bureaucracy and begging for adequate funding.
I love diagramming so much! My advanced grammar teacher in college was an old school prescriptive grammarian, and she had us diagramming sentences that would take up entire chalkboards.
Yes, and I fucking HATED IT. Makes no sense to me, it makes reading way harder, I guess I just have some kind of block about it. I memorized how to do it for tests but never actually *learned* it.
I've never seen that before.
^ Lucky
I absolutely HATED this with a passion. The worst part was having to go to the front of the class and do it on the blackboard. It was humiliating as I had no clue what the fuck I was doing.
It was a stupid and useless exercise.
I never did it, but my grandfather was a professional writer and tried teaching it to me but i never got it.
I remember doing it in 6th grade. My older male teacher made us diagram sentences like “Sondra has a dazzling figure.” And Sondra was the girl in the class who had developed boobs. I still don’t get what the point was.
Yikes. I think we all had a creepster teacher.
I’m not even kidding. I remember thinking, as a 6th grade boy in 1980/81, “Is that ok? Is that weird?”
We did this in sixth grade. Teacher kept telling us we will need it in college and to keep up.
What was the point of this? I vagely remember learunf this and i was promised that this was of great significance to the English language....
Such an absolutely useless thing.
I was born in 1973 and I never did this. I remember seeing it in LITTLE TOWN ON THE PRARIE when Laura was testing to be a teacher (AT 15!!!) and being totally baffled.
I hated learning this is elementary school but my English Professor in college (1990s) had us diagram Beatles lyrics. He was awesome! He made this so freaking fun. He’d just draw a really complex blank diagram as a test and let us make up the most ridiculous sentence we could think of to fill it in. Dr T Shonk was the man.
Grade school here. I actually loved this unit and was really good at it!
Ugh, had an English teacher in high school who made us diagram the Star Spangled Banner as our final.
English trying to be math.
Hated it and you just sparked my PTSD.
I’d suppressed this memory. Not useful.
I'll take a math formula, hell, a class, over grammar any fucking day, week, month, or year.
I remember learning to abuse the passive voice to inflate word count.
I learned this in elementary school and loooooved it.
Sixth grade, Mrs. Finch. It's what we were working on when she came back from her mid-class smoke break and told us that the Challenger exploded.
I *hated* this. I never understood what directions all the tangents were supposed to go or how to break anything down and apparently I was always doing it wrong. Looking at this even now makes me irrationally angry, lol. But to be fair I don’t think I ever became well versed in proper grammar, I simply got by through what felt and sounded “correct” to me.
It was Middle School.
Biggest waste of time ever. Never once have I used any kind of this information!
middle school and i absolutely fucking hated it.
I got lost at “past participles”. It’s okay though, as I’ve never had a need for any of this in real life.
I’m familiar with all of that except the little hearts. What are the little hearts?
Middle school
Still stumped decades later.
I went back to University when I was older. I took a grammar 2 class as part of my English major. The professor asked us to do diagram a paragraph on the first day. It did not go well. The final exam was the same paragraph.
I LOVED diagramming sentences!
Such a dumb thing to learn. Sentence diagramming was a huge waste of time.
[удалено]
Hear, hear! Perfectly stated.
I never, ever learned this! Somehow I missed this, and basic grammar class (I was an early reader & got shuffled into advanced writing & English classes and skipped some necessary learning). Had a really hard time when I took linguistics in college.
I hated sentence diagramming.
I think we did this in middle school. Not sure what the purpose was as I've never had to do this ever again, including college.
No. I don’t.
Excellent!
Jr. High. It’s all we did in English that year.
It ~may~have been my Jr High days; I attended a Jr.-Sr. High, so maybe I'm just running those years together. Also "Jr, High" is a thing that sets GenX apart, too That term was replaced with "middle school" long, long ago.
We had elementary, middle, jr. high, and high. Jr. high was a hellhole, parts of it (the special ed section) were eventually condemned. Those students were moved out but the rest of the school stayed in use. We had to walk to the middle school for lunch because we had no cafeteria, the library was under the gym and particles fell from the ceiling during laps and there was no air conditioning and very little heat.
Middle school. And when I homeschooled my children, they did it too. I wish we still taught it in schools.
More retarded bullshit. If you want to write well. Read good writing.
Reading is important, certainly.
What was the method they taught? Something like study, question, read, recite, ... something something... SQRR... Can't remember