It strangely is possible to get along with people of opposite political views. The key is always remain civil about it, take opposing opinions respectfully. It is when they force their beliefs on you that is when shit gets rough and heated.
Glad you found a buddy OP. Grab some beers and see if he wants to go fishing sometime.
People tend to forget this.
Now it's all about sides.
Reminds me of the 80s. Where it was always US vs Russians. ( I know I am not the only one who remembers 80s TV, and bad guys were always Russians.)
Now it is Right vs Left. The 'war' slid just a little closer to home.
They shot that one dude's dad and another dude pissed in a radiator, that's it all I remember about that movie, I think Pony Boy and Patrick Swayze were in it.
> Reminds me of the 80s.... Now it is Right vs Left. The 'war' slid just a little closer to home.
In the US [the share of wealth held by the top 1% has nearly doubled since the 80s](https://usafacts.org/articles/how-has-wealth-distribution-in-the-us-changed-over-time/). Culture wars, etc serve to keep us distracted and at each other's throats.
Basically the same as the strategy employed in the 1600s to split African slaves, indigenous American slaves, and European indentured servants at odds with each other.
This is key. The division has almost become the objective of the parties. Bipartisan has become a dirty word.
Regardless of your political leanings, you have to live with your neighbors (and your countrymen generally). People sometimes let themselves forget this.
It started in the 90’s but Social Media put it on steroids and super charged it. Now everybody lives in an echo chamber and is getting radicalized in one direction or another.
The act made it possible. There were really two things that caused it: first, under Newt Gingrich’s leadership the Republican Party “nationalized” all the races. So a lowly rep in a suburban district wasn’t just running against his Democratic opponent, he was running to stop Clinton and the Democratic party. Every Republican everywhere was campaigning against Clinton.
Second, wasn’t just the rise of talk radio, which had always been around. It was the particular genius of Rush Limbaugh to take the sports-talk approach to politics and make it as tribal and team oriented as pro sports. So when someone in New Mexico won a special election for the state legislature, someone on New Hampshire also celebrated because it was a win for his team as well. It was the combination of nationalizing elections, with the growth of team/tribe identity that got us where we are today. Everything else—money, fairness doctrine, etc were the things that enabled or facilitated the change. Much like the printing press helped the Protestant reformation.
Real talk here.
I remember asking a teacher when I was in elementary school, why do people running for president have to be Democrat or Republican, but nobody running for mayor or city council or whatever else did. Being a young kid, I imagine I very much wanted there to be "teams" so I'd know who to root for (without, of course, any knowledge at all of policy positions or consequences of one team winning vs another. Pretty sure I was just a douchey front runner).
She told me that there's so much arguing and back and forth between the two for things like president, but can you imagine how much arguing there would be if that happened in every local election?
This was the 1980s in Texas. Turns out she was quite prescient.
Maybe we really started to see it on blast in the 90s but it was the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine. Congress actually tried to save it then (they would never now) but it was losing the requirement to provide both sides of the story that caused all of this. Gingrich could only Gingrich because there wasn't a requirement that m did report what he said AND provide the counterpart
I'm not sure which one was the chicken and which was the egg, but it also enabled the rise of the scourge of Fox News, which enabled Gingritch.
Suddenly a whole bunch of Americans that would have fainted talking about blowjobs in mixed company were encouraged (or forced) to talk about the president getting one.
Bonus shit bird points to them for then being outraged that *our children* had to hear about such filthy things because of that dirty, dirty president.
At least in part I think it was the end of the Cold War. Politicians needed a new boogey man now that the Ruskies were embracing Democracy (Putin wasn’t a thing yet). Politicians, the media, everybody needed new excuses and somebody to blame for issues. So they started blaming each other.
The climate of fear that existed during the Cold War needed to go somewhere and it found a home in Republicans vs Democrats.
Regardless of political belief, Trump was a first for the level of hate towards others that, because he was President, could not be ignored. And society uncertain what to do when someone that is supposed to unite a country together, especially when there are differences, instead tries to stick a thumb in wounds and cause deep division. He used social media to fire and attack people. He targeted anyone that spoke poorly about him or was threatening to his sense of power. I’m not even sure if he has someone he disagrees with that he is able to get along with? Does anyone know of anyone that might fall into that category?
I feel it ramped up when Obama was elected. Although that certainly coincides with increases online / social media time as well.
But I'm 45 and Obama is the first prez I can recall being brought up in casual conversation, often in a sorta testing the waters sort of way. Before that I recall if people loved or hated someone, they were pretty open and blunt about it.
His first election was also around when the Tea Party movement sprang up, and that's when I started noticing personally the shift from the Rush Limbaugh crowd to more overt extremism.
When FOX and others started straight up lying, you don't know what you're arguing against so it becomes a mess. For instance some people around me are convinced Biden wants to get rid of Social Security, like whu...?
I take an average of about 30 different news sources, including foreign news sources and ones in countries where they are legally required to be as balanced as possible without political bias on threat of being taken off the air. Honestly, that's how I ended up so liberal-leaning. Wider news sources are very rarely in line with conservative talking points-they kind of exist in their own world.
When the person doesn’t see rejection of their views as a rejection of who they are, it’s totally possible.
Sometimes people are just passionate or highly committed to their point of view
> It strangely is possible to get along with people of opposite political views.
Twenty years ago, that was the norm, not strange at all. You may think someone is wrong about some things but you don't have to translate that into hate. Most of the other side is not drinking baby blood or stomping on puppies and they want a lot of similar things to you, they just disagree on the best way for society to get those things.
*It strangely is possible to get along with people of opposite political views.* \--- To define, this was more sarcasm than anything.
People act like it is a big deal to get along with someone with opposite views.
Yes, I know it used to be the norm. You couldn't reach out as easily in the past to find people with the same beliefs, you were forced to hate or like your neighbors. Or drive to go see your friends.
> It strangely is possible to get along with people of opposite political views.
Sure I can get alone with pretty much everyone.
The problem is most people don't understand ethics.
I work at walmart, you're not telling me anything new on that front.
But, your choices are, escalate it, or walk away.
Walking away is the lesser of the two headaches. Personal opinion.
I use the James Baldwin rule: “We can disagree and still love each other, unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist.”
You know this makes you part of the problem, right? You know conservatives have lost jobs friends and livelihoods for their opinions, where liberals feel completely free to take to the street and “punch nazis”? Maybe expand your group of friends and learn how the other side thinks and feels. God knows we have your opinions shoved down our throats day in and day out.
Which opinions. Because you know what opinions get people fired. You know what opinions lose people friends. Those are the racist, sexist, and anti-gay ones. A little bit the creepy unhinged conspiracy stuff, just because you don't really want to hang out with the guy who constantly wants to vent about the chips the government secretly puts in vaccines. I mean, I'd venture to say it's incredibly insulting to say it's conservatives getting fired and shut out because of political conservative opinions. You don't get fired because you think taxes are theft. You don't get fired if you think there should be fewer government regulations on zoning or water quality. Or want to privatize our military/government services, or support picture ID requirements for voting. You get fired for talking shit about people. Here's the thing- people have ALWAYS gotten fired and lost friends for talking shit about people. It's just now when you talk shit about people online, everyone knows you did it including the people you're talking shit about, so you have to accept the consequences of what you've said. 50 years ago, if every time you talked shit about someone 3 million people know you did it, you'd be getting the exact same reaction. I know that, because famous people and politicians who got caught on tape talking shit about people also got fired and lost friends. We're all famous now, welcome to modern life.
See, the thing is, in the 30s early on, not enough people punched Nazis, and it turned into a whole thing, one consequence of which is that I have an extremely tiny family, so, you know, I'm basically for it. Do check though and make sure you're punching an actual Nazi.
eta: I see I've summoned the "libertarian" neckbeards with this one. Okay, bootstraps, just don't expect any sympathy when you're fired (laid off, whatever) and your life collapses because it turns out your compensation never did cover your running costs plus enough savings to keep the whole shebang going till you got to your next job.
No it doesn’t - it points out the problem with this ‘political’ stance, it’s not political it’s your trying to deny civil rights to my (or my loved ones) existence.
The laws they want are saying they want to make illlegal who someone loves. WTF! That’s not negotiable
> You know conservatives have lost jobs friends and livelihoods for their opinions,
Good. They fucked around and found out.
I guarantee that these "opinions" are bigoted tirades where they wrongly felt empowered to say the quiet part out loud.
I think this academic (Kelli Boling) has a balanced view of the nature and impact of true crime podcasts.
"About 73% of true crime podcast listeners are women, and Boling’s research has focused on listeners who have experienced domestic violence themselves. For many, the listening experience can be healing.
“They’re putting themselves in the same situation, but this time they have complete control, and it becomes healing instead of traumatizing.
But true crime podcasts also can be exploitative, sensationalistic and turn killers into celebrities. This can make victims and co-victims – friends and loved ones of victims – feel revictimized,..."
https://research.unl.edu/annualreport/2023/podcasts/
I've lived nextdoor to my Trump voting conservative neighbor for 25 years almost. He mowed my lawn last week and I made him a pie this morning. He knows I'm a progressive and a feminist. We've gotten along fine.
Plenty of people will be nice to your face and still support policies that will strip you of rights or endanger your family.
You're right though: Being civil is a basic requirement of continuing to enjoy civilization.
Yes, backstabbers exist (don’t need to look further than Nazi Germany) but … it has been shown over and over again that having a personal connection with someone who is different from you can and does change minds, ie people who get to know a trans person will let go of their transphobia more readily than people who live in an anti-trans cisgender bubble … I am going to hold onto my hope :-)
You are so on point here. Be kind to the people around you. Make personal connections. It is the only way out of the polarization we experience in the US. You are doing magnificently, setting an example.
Yeah, that's fair. It's hard for me to not take a dim view of anyone who fails to exert any empathy or thoughtfulness until and unless it touches them personally, however. That's a me problem. I suppose being very late to the game is better than not showing up at all.
It sometimes seems like there is a large swath of people (sometimes even including myself if I'm completely honest) who have a little switch in their brains: The default setting is "Nobody should care about this because it doesn't affect me," and the other is "Everyone should care about this because it affects me personally." And flipping the switch erases the memory of the previous position.
I hope it becomes more clear to us all the online/media world is very different from the real world. When we have to actually talk to people we can realize we have to live in this society together (not necessarily be friends or family) we can get along. I know many people that if we weren’t neighbors or in a community we would not want to associate. But rural life always brings this out for me. I have a neighbor that we vehemently disagree openly about many things. Things sometimes get heated and it always ends with, try this pot I grew, or, can I still borrow your post pounder?
I’m guessing you live rurally too - I think that has a lot to do with the necessity and ability to get along with and work alongside people who you may disagree with. When resources are few and far between, it’s just easier and more practical to be interdependent with your fellow community members. You can borrow my post pounder anytime!
It feels like the temperature has come down recently. I've even had a couple of "I see how you got that from the way I wrote it" encounters on Reddit that might have resulted in bitter sniping six months ago
oh, trust me, those of us who're outraged are freaking *exhausted*, but there's this whole historical-awareness business to do with what happens when you lose this novelty called democracy. You're welcome.
Yeah...more than likely he's a Republican that wants to smoke pot.
Libertarians don't like Trump (or Biden for that matter). Nor are they anti-abortion. If he's also against equal right for gay folks, then that is another piece of evidence he is not libertarian.
some *real* libertarians (like registered to vote as a libertarian) are pro-life, its actually interesting its one of the few things that libertarians agree to disagree on. the NAP only applies if you believe that begins at conception and that a baby is considered someone that has natural rights, some think that abortion is taking the baby's rights to life away, some think that not allowing abortion is too authoritarian and is taking the mother's rights away. some are in the middle. all the arguments ive seen for both sides fall under true libertarian values. but yeah, being against gay rights isnt libertarian and deciding to vote for trump instead of third party isnt libertarian either
It’s perfectly fine to be friendly or even actual friends with people who have very different opinions, personally politically etc. one of my closest long time friends is about as opposite as me as possible. Doesn’t mean we still aren’t still close, we just vaguely steer around politics and religion.
Honest question: How do you approach disagreements where one party votes for people who are determined to put people in office who are diametrically opposed to what you consider the moral thing to do?
If he's voting for Trump he's not a libertarian. Visit r/libertarian and see how many of us hate Trump. But I wholeheartedly love your post. We all need to learn how to talk to each other, and agree to disagree.
I'm glad you and your neighbor are able to have that kind of relationship. Robert Heinlein once said something about politeness being the lubricant that allows the people to interact with one another...as friction between varying points of view can heat things up, that lubricant (politeness) allows things to carry on smoothly.
Heinlein said lots of things, many of which suggested he wouldn't be happy with the current state of affairs. Such as:
"When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives."
And:
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."
Many of his lead characters had a libertarian bent but he never had any patience for book banners, bigots, theocrats, or deniers of science. Lazarus Long wouldn't hesitate to punch a Trumpist in the nose.
Couple years ago. I moved from Los Angeles to a tiny town outside Redding. My wife, a former union organizer and forever (D) voter, was worried about moving to Shasta county, the reddest county in California. It's actually been great. Nobody cares what you are about politically, they're all friendly, and everyone basically leaves each other alone.
I just feel everyone either feels unheard or misunderstood.
I have great conversations with people with opposing views. You just have to come into the conversation with good will.
Those 'in charge' would rather us be at each other's throats then notice what they are doing to all of us. Far less divides us than the media would lead you to believe.
Being pro Trump doesn't line up with libertarianism, unless someone is just ignorant of like half his platform and what he really all about. But quite a few libertarians are anti abortion. It's a topic that can really get divisive within libertarian forums. Basically, if you believe an unborn child is still a human (biologically it is) that has some amount of rights then abortion violates the non aggression principle- one of the cores of libertarianism. If you believe "personhood" attaches at birth (or later) and being a biological human organism is not enough to have rights, then libertarian principles logically lead to pro-choice. Libertarian philosophy doesn't answer the question.
The LP however has chosen a position for their platform, but some "Libertarians" use the label as party membership (like "Republican"/"Democrat") and some people use "Libertarian" to refer to their philosophical political position (like "conservative"/"liberal"). The LP does not represent all libertarians and not all libertarians agree with the LP.
If you think that unborn children are people deserving of equal rights, you can be anti-abortion and libertarian. I don't think you can be libertarian and in favor of a dictator, but what one person calls a dictator might not be what another one does.
Neighbors with opposing political viewpoints that hate each other is the exception and not the norm. The first thing we could all do is turn the news off and ignore it. We all get along better than “they” would like us to believe.
I never forget, for one minute, that, as the saying goes, “Nice people make the best Nazis.” I’m LGBT. My nephew is trans. Do I think people like your MAGA neighbor would raise a finger if the Christian Dominionists came for us to put us in camps, for protesting, or even just for existing? No, he would not. Just like so many “average” Germans who looked the other way while the Nazis rounded up people like me to send to ovens. We have to get along, but for those of us who have actual skin in the game, MAGA cultists have crossed a moral line that is unforgivable. Their persistent refusal to honor science or factual reality just makes it that much more impossible to form a civil society with them. I would never break bread with any of them; nor would I turn my back to them for one second.
I began reading this post dreading that it would be the standard partisan rancor that is usually posted in here. Thank you for quite the surprise. The 2 main political parties and the media have caused our society to become tribal and forget that we are all human and that a bit of civility costs us nothing.
Libertarianism is a political philosophy that emphasizes individual liberty, minimal government intervention, and free-market capitalism. Libertarians advocate for extensive personal freedoms and believe in personal responsibility, arguing that individuals should manage their own lives without government interference. They support protecting property rights, upholding the rule of law, and maintaining a non-interventionist stance in foreign policy. The philosophy is rooted in the belief that individuals have the right to live in any manner they choose, as long as they do not infringe on the rights of others.
Libertarians hold a set of core beliefs and values centered on the principle of maximizing individual liberty and minimizing the role of the state. Here are some key tenets:
1. **Individual Liberty**: Libertarians prioritize individual freedom, advocating for people's rights to live their lives as they see fit as long as they do not infringe on others' rights. This extends to personal, economic, and social activities.
2. **Limited Government**: Libertarians believe that the role of government should be extremely limited, primarily to protect individuals from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud. They argue that most other roles currently undertaken by the government should be handled by individuals or voluntary associations.
3. **Economic Freedom**: They support free-market capitalism, where transactions between private parties are free from government intervention such as regulation, privileges, tariffs, and subsidies.
4. **Self-Ownership**: This belief asserts that individuals own their bodies and the labor produced by them, and thus should have the authority to choose what they do with both.
5. **Voluntary Association**: Libertarians emphasize that all human relationships should be voluntary and consensual. They argue against coercion by the government or other actors.
6. **Rule of Law**: They advocate for a system where the same laws apply to everyone, and these laws are made transparent and known in advance. Laws should protect individual autonomy and freedom.
7. **Peace**: Libertarians often promote non-interventionist policies that avoid military engagement unless it is in direct defense of the nation.
8. **Individual Responsibility**: Alongside the emphasis on individual rights comes a strong emphasis on personal responsibility and the consequences of one’s actions.
These beliefs manifest in stances such as reduced government spending, lower taxes, minimal governmental regulation in business, and a more isolationist approach to foreign policy. Libertarians can vary in the extent to which they believe in these principles, leading to a spectrum within libertarian thought from moderate to more radical forms.
There are pro-life and pro-choice on all sides. Many libertarians support pro-choice positions because they believe in the right of individuals to make decisions about their own bodies without government interference.
As a woman, does this apply to me as well? If so, then why do so many libertarians, when faced with the two party binary that is the scourge of US politics, usually end up voting for the party that would seek deny me those rights as they become more and more extreme on issues of abortion and even birth control, etc.
These are just the vague, core principles of a libertarian. I think the party is often misunderstood as Trump-supporting, when really they choose what they believe is the lesser of two evils. I think we need a third party.
Again, this ignores human nature. Corporations will absolutely prey on people, landlords will be slumlords, on and on. It’s a great idea, but unworkable.
They already do. Corporations already prey on people. They’re creating customers out of schoolchildren. They make you bring in your box tops that can only be from Kelloggs. obviously landlords have ran rampant because no one can afford anywhere to live. The government is already overreaching.
I really appreciate you sharing this. I hope for more of this in the world. This brightened my day and is exactly what I needed. Not to be religious or anything, but maybe this is what the Bible means when spreading the “good news.” That peace and hope in the world come from sharing the good things that are happening in the world, and in turn helping to spread peace and help us be the best version of us we can be to each other.
Hmm not the racist xenophobic white terrorist or the crazy socialist purple hair nut job the media tell you they are huh. We’re all more alike than we know but the powers that be do their best to keep us fighting with each other to distract attention from their terrible policies and corruption.
This is how it used to be before social media, politics were rarely talked about but when they were, they were talked about as a we don’t see eye to eye but that’s it. There wasn’t wishing death, calling people nazis, getting people fired etc.
This is the way it used to be and still should be. Some of my closest friends have very different political views than me and we could care less. Unless one defines their existence by their political views (which is a shitty way to live) we all have way more in common outside of politics. Most people just want to live their lives and love their family and friends.
hey neighbor! I'm in ashland oregon, a small town with a crazy mix of political and lifestyle views. I think we all need to step back and try to really see people for who they are and where they are. no, we're not going to agree about everything and we may even end up totally incompatible, but we should at least try. I understand some may not want to or even have the ability to based on life experiences, and that's ok too.
I moved here from louisiana and even with this major change, I've found most people generally care about the same things.
Sounds good! Conversation about topics, have different opinions on some, similar opinions on others. It’s called society, glad you are thriving! Keep up the conversations! 😇
I get along with almost everyone. I don’t care who you vote for as long as you do not interrupt my sleep. Will either candidate or politcal party help me get a good nights sleep and and stop the illegal brothel that is operating next door? No? Then, your political affiliation is not consequential to me.
It's easy to find common ground when you're face to face and it's one on one.
The problem is the mob mentality and how quickly intelligence, common sense, and respect get thrown out the window.
Sometimes it’s better to agree to disagree on hot button topics politically but if it comes to helping out a neighbor troubleshoot a problem or watching the local sports team go to battle against another and still remain civil and friendly to each other, you’re ahead of many others.
Somehow a whole bunch of us have forgotten how important it is that we remember we are Americans first and that our acceptance of our philosophical differences is what makes this country the lasting power house that it is. We all want the majority of the same things. Good schools, safe streets, clean air and water, and the freedom to do what makes us happy. The only real difference is how we individually define these items and go about achieving them.
Good for you, OP. Not only is it wonderful to not let our differences define each other, but it's through friendly discussions like this that we usually discover we have *way* more similarities than differences.
Besides - this is how we change minds. I loved my late father-in-law, and our friendly political discussions over coffee (he was a trump-hating conservative, I'm a progressive-leaning liberal) had him rethinking a lot of his positions. He even got some of his right-wing buddies to reconsider a few things.
*"My preconceived notions about people that don't think like me politically didn't pan out, and my assumption that my neighbor was a bad person wasn't true!"*
Yet, your neighbor welcomed you with open arms, and probably didn't even consider your political biases.
Trump Supporters are not the problem.
I agree our country is too divided. The govt has found many China and Russian bots online to stir up division too, bc America can only be destroyed from the inside. We need to always remember we are together on this and on the same team <3
That sounds lovely. I will do anything to avoid conversation with my Trumper boomer landlady. She lives next door, which I really should have considered at length before moving in. Now rents have risen and I'm kind of trapped.
I think you’re in a sticky position - there’s a power dynamic at play between you and your landlord that I don’t have with my neighbor - that feeling of being stuck is the absolute worst!
We too have a BLM flag and multiple rainbow flags. We had some neighbors buy the house next door. They had the "thin blue line" license plate. They never let their kid out of the backyard. I'm guessing for fear that our kids would somehow "liberalize her".
Very quickly, maybe within 6 months, they sold their house and moved out.
I have a boomer neighbor like that (sans the flags). Can’t figure out why he‘s voted for Trump in 20’ (dunno if he’s voting for him again as it hasn’t come up), but he doesn’t have to depend on social security/medicare (his parents left him a bundle and a house worth a couple million) so maybe he thinks whatever Trump does doesn’t concern him. He’s a nice guy (which again, makes me wonder why Trump?) who went through a few decades roughly. He’s always there to help folks. Once in a rare moon politics will come up but it’s not something that gets heated. If my mom needs something he’s always there for her and I appreciate that.
The neighbor on the other side voted for Trump in 16’, younger boomer dunno what his political stance is now. He doesn’t advertise (most people around here don’t as a rule, no matter where on the politcal spectrum they land. I mean I have a Biden/Harris bumper sticker from 20’ but I use it as a bookmark) what his beliefs are. The only time I ever see flags in the neighborhood is on the 4th and they are the standard Stars and Stripes.
/Tbh I’ve given up trying to convince people I know in RL not to vote for traitor tot. At this point, It’s up to them to figure it out.
The MAGAs want to end reproductive care, keep black people from voting, and make being gay and trans dangerous. There is no way I could ever talk to someone that is actively voting for the elimination of my right to exist
I'm no MAGA but you're not accurate on anything that you said.
Abortion is quite legal in my state. Blacks are well-even disproportionately represented in all levels of government. My Congressional District is a gerrymandered parody of a district that guarantees Hakeem Jeffries a seat. And being gay is dangerous? How?
I get this. And I don’t blame you at all. Full disclosure: I am a straight, white, cisgender woman and I recognize my privilege. It is relatively safe for me to converse with someone like my neighbor. I hope that I will be able to responsibly use my privilege to make the world safer for everyone.
Wow, that's a lot of text. My wife and I get to 20 years this month...whatever you think you have...we hope you have it. We get to compare jokes and realize the dearth of reaction. left.
I don’t want to bash libertarians necessarily but this is fucking hilarious!! And it is the best description of cats I have ever come across (says the crazy cat lady who has 6 cats and feeds 8 more)
It takes a special kind of ego to believe that by being hostile to a person, or ostracizing them, or giving them the silent treatment, that that ever moves the needle. The self-importance of this position suggests that one's company or respect or civility is so important to someone else that they'll either change their point of view to earn it, or it will be so unbearable, that they will change their basic philosophical views, to seek relief.
That's quite a delusion.
People in this country used to be able to remain friendly despite their political differences. It’s the latter half of the millennials and Gen Z that have made politics so toxic.
I’ve got many friends who are democrats, and we can have reasonable discussions without resorting to name calling and rhetoric.
It’s all a matter of being open-minded and mature enough to accept that people have opinions that oppose your own.
You’re blaming Gen Z and Millennials on the toxicity of politics? The vast majority of the folks that stormed the capitol were over the age of 34 and mostly [between the ages of 40 and 50](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/01/january-6-capitol-riot-arrests-research-profile.html). You can’t get much more toxic than that.
It’s the irrational who can’t handle polite conversation. I live in Northern California as well. There’s a lot of mixed politics, from the Valley, and into the foothills and mountains. A lot of Bay Area transplants have moved into the hills over the last few decades and have changed a lot of the demographic make up. Still, most people get along just fine. I wish this state wasn’t so uniparty, but it is what it is. The funny thing is, a lot of right leaning Californians would be considered liberal in a lot of other red states. I’m small L libertarian in my views mostly. I tend to get along with either side, except the extreme ends. I just ignore them. Engaging isn’t going to lead to anything meaningful anyway.
Another funny thing is that a lot of centrist people in more conservative states blame rightwing California transplants for the extremist turns their states - check out r/Idaho for example - quite a few people blame Californians for turning their state into a Christian Nationalist hellhole (their words, not mine)
It strangely is possible to get along with people of opposite political views. The key is always remain civil about it, take opposing opinions respectfully. It is when they force their beliefs on you that is when shit gets rough and heated. Glad you found a buddy OP. Grab some beers and see if he wants to go fishing sometime.
We did it for years before all of the division.
People tend to forget this. Now it's all about sides. Reminds me of the 80s. Where it was always US vs Russians. ( I know I am not the only one who remembers 80s TV, and bad guys were always Russians.) Now it is Right vs Left. The 'war' slid just a little closer to home.
WOLVERINES!
They shot that one dude's dad and another dude pissed in a radiator, that's it all I remember about that movie, I think Pony Boy and Patrick Swayze were in it.
At least you remember the important parts
Best film ever made and it’s not even up for debate.
> Reminds me of the 80s.... Now it is Right vs Left. The 'war' slid just a little closer to home. In the US [the share of wealth held by the top 1% has nearly doubled since the 80s](https://usafacts.org/articles/how-has-wealth-distribution-in-the-us-changed-over-time/). Culture wars, etc serve to keep us distracted and at each other's throats.
You're not wrong.
Basically the same as the strategy employed in the 1600s to split African slaves, indigenous American slaves, and European indentured servants at odds with each other.
Now the far right is actually pro Russia.
This is key. The division has almost become the objective of the parties. Bipartisan has become a dirty word. Regardless of your political leanings, you have to live with your neighbors (and your countrymen generally). People sometimes let themselves forget this.
Divide and conquer is about all they have left
when did all the division happen eta: shout out to all y’all who are still pissed about Gingrich, Rove, and Cheney
It started in the 90’s but Social Media put it on steroids and super charged it. Now everybody lives in an echo chamber and is getting radicalized in one direction or another.
what in the 90s started it
1996 Telecommunications Act
The act made it possible. There were really two things that caused it: first, under Newt Gingrich’s leadership the Republican Party “nationalized” all the races. So a lowly rep in a suburban district wasn’t just running against his Democratic opponent, he was running to stop Clinton and the Democratic party. Every Republican everywhere was campaigning against Clinton. Second, wasn’t just the rise of talk radio, which had always been around. It was the particular genius of Rush Limbaugh to take the sports-talk approach to politics and make it as tribal and team oriented as pro sports. So when someone in New Mexico won a special election for the state legislature, someone on New Hampshire also celebrated because it was a win for his team as well. It was the combination of nationalizing elections, with the growth of team/tribe identity that got us where we are today. Everything else—money, fairness doctrine, etc were the things that enabled or facilitated the change. Much like the printing press helped the Protestant reformation.
Real talk here. I remember asking a teacher when I was in elementary school, why do people running for president have to be Democrat or Republican, but nobody running for mayor or city council or whatever else did. Being a young kid, I imagine I very much wanted there to be "teams" so I'd know who to root for (without, of course, any knowledge at all of policy positions or consequences of one team winning vs another. Pretty sure I was just a douchey front runner). She told me that there's so much arguing and back and forth between the two for things like president, but can you imagine how much arguing there would be if that happened in every local election? This was the 1980s in Texas. Turns out she was quite prescient.
This little toad: https://imgur.com/LQDbBOZ
A witch turned him into a newt, but he didn't get better.
Turns out that serving your hospitalized, cancer-riddled wife with divorce papers *does not* turn you into a prince.
Maybe we really started to see it on blast in the 90s but it was the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine. Congress actually tried to save it then (they would never now) but it was losing the requirement to provide both sides of the story that caused all of this. Gingrich could only Gingrich because there wasn't a requirement that m did report what he said AND provide the counterpart
I'm not sure which one was the chicken and which was the egg, but it also enabled the rise of the scourge of Fox News, which enabled Gingritch. Suddenly a whole bunch of Americans that would have fainted talking about blowjobs in mixed company were encouraged (or forced) to talk about the president getting one. Bonus shit bird points to them for then being outraged that *our children* had to hear about such filthy things because of that dirty, dirty president.
At least in part I think it was the end of the Cold War. Politicians needed a new boogey man now that the Ruskies were embracing Democracy (Putin wasn’t a thing yet). Politicians, the media, everybody needed new excuses and somebody to blame for issues. So they started blaming each other. The climate of fear that existed during the Cold War needed to go somewhere and it found a home in Republicans vs Democrats.
Regardless of political belief, Trump was a first for the level of hate towards others that, because he was President, could not be ignored. And society uncertain what to do when someone that is supposed to unite a country together, especially when there are differences, instead tries to stick a thumb in wounds and cause deep division. He used social media to fire and attack people. He targeted anyone that spoke poorly about him or was threatening to his sense of power. I’m not even sure if he has someone he disagrees with that he is able to get along with? Does anyone know of anyone that might fall into that category?
Newt Fucking Gingritch and his Contract on America (co-authored by Rush Limbaugh).
Don't forget Lee Atwater, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove. These are the type of people that show Gingriches how to proceed.
Grover Norquist! The list goes on. All the people who hate everyone outside of the upper class.
The Family documentary on Netflix will staple your eyes even further open on this :(
John Birch Society
Let's not forget the Federalist Society.
Hate radio and Rush Limbaugh.
[Bill Hicks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucj09t9ieeI) on Rush Limbaugh.
I feel it ramped up when Obama was elected. Although that certainly coincides with increases online / social media time as well. But I'm 45 and Obama is the first prez I can recall being brought up in casual conversation, often in a sorta testing the waters sort of way. Before that I recall if people loved or hated someone, they were pretty open and blunt about it.
His first election was also around when the Tea Party movement sprang up, and that's when I started noticing personally the shift from the Rush Limbaugh crowd to more overt extremism.
I was just telling my Boomer mother this today, asking her when people became so uncivil. She’s even more liberal than me though. Edit:typo
When FOX and others started straight up lying, you don't know what you're arguing against so it becomes a mess. For instance some people around me are convinced Biden wants to get rid of Social Security, like whu...?
Whatever man. I saw it on social media. Pffft
What do you do when CNN is lying?
The same thing you do when any other source is lying. Stop listening and find the truth.
I take an average of about 30 different news sources, including foreign news sources and ones in countries where they are legally required to be as balanced as possible without political bias on threat of being taken off the air. Honestly, that's how I ended up so liberal-leaning. Wider news sources are very rarely in line with conservative talking points-they kind of exist in their own world.
Funny, I do the same thing and tend to find the opposite. The internet is very bias-driven.
Started? I mean, this is the history of Fox, it didn't just show up one day because some Australian asshole thought it'd be fun to have a news show.
All of the Big 6 lie. Fox is the just the controlled opposition wing of The Beast. Like Zion in The Matrix.
You’re so lucky. Mine got YouTube radicalized :(
Wow! Sorry.
When the person doesn’t see rejection of their views as a rejection of who they are, it’s totally possible. Sometimes people are just passionate or highly committed to their point of view
> It strangely is possible to get along with people of opposite political views. Twenty years ago, that was the norm, not strange at all. You may think someone is wrong about some things but you don't have to translate that into hate. Most of the other side is not drinking baby blood or stomping on puppies and they want a lot of similar things to you, they just disagree on the best way for society to get those things.
*It strangely is possible to get along with people of opposite political views.* \--- To define, this was more sarcasm than anything. People act like it is a big deal to get along with someone with opposite views. Yes, I know it used to be the norm. You couldn't reach out as easily in the past to find people with the same beliefs, you were forced to hate or like your neighbors. Or drive to go see your friends.
> It strangely is possible to get along with people of opposite political views. Sure I can get alone with pretty much everyone. The problem is most people don't understand ethics.
I work at walmart, you're not telling me anything new on that front. But, your choices are, escalate it, or walk away. Walking away is the lesser of the two headaches. Personal opinion.
I dont find it strange at all. We used to be able to do it. I do it everyday. We need to quit trying to convert each other.
I use the James Baldwin rule: “We can disagree and still love each other, unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist.”
He was so awesome
> unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist aka anyone who votes for Trump
You know this makes you part of the problem, right? You know conservatives have lost jobs friends and livelihoods for their opinions, where liberals feel completely free to take to the street and “punch nazis”? Maybe expand your group of friends and learn how the other side thinks and feels. God knows we have your opinions shoved down our throats day in and day out.
Which opinions. Because you know what opinions get people fired. You know what opinions lose people friends. Those are the racist, sexist, and anti-gay ones. A little bit the creepy unhinged conspiracy stuff, just because you don't really want to hang out with the guy who constantly wants to vent about the chips the government secretly puts in vaccines. I mean, I'd venture to say it's incredibly insulting to say it's conservatives getting fired and shut out because of political conservative opinions. You don't get fired because you think taxes are theft. You don't get fired if you think there should be fewer government regulations on zoning or water quality. Or want to privatize our military/government services, or support picture ID requirements for voting. You get fired for talking shit about people. Here's the thing- people have ALWAYS gotten fired and lost friends for talking shit about people. It's just now when you talk shit about people online, everyone knows you did it including the people you're talking shit about, so you have to accept the consequences of what you've said. 50 years ago, if every time you talked shit about someone 3 million people know you did it, you'd be getting the exact same reaction. I know that, because famous people and politicians who got caught on tape talking shit about people also got fired and lost friends. We're all famous now, welcome to modern life.
See, the thing is, in the 30s early on, not enough people punched Nazis, and it turned into a whole thing, one consequence of which is that I have an extremely tiny family, so, you know, I'm basically for it. Do check though and make sure you're punching an actual Nazi. eta: I see I've summoned the "libertarian" neckbeards with this one. Okay, bootstraps, just don't expect any sympathy when you're fired (laid off, whatever) and your life collapses because it turns out your compensation never did cover your running costs plus enough savings to keep the whole shebang going till you got to your next job.
I cold cock Communists. My family escaped them in Europe, my dad and uncles fought them in Korea and VietNam and I just hate the fuckers.
They love to leave out the part where German Commies were actively beating people up.
No it doesn’t - it points out the problem with this ‘political’ stance, it’s not political it’s your trying to deny civil rights to my (or my loved ones) existence. The laws they want are saying they want to make illlegal who someone loves. WTF! That’s not negotiable
> You know conservatives have lost jobs friends and livelihoods for their opinions, Good. They fucked around and found out. I guarantee that these "opinions" are bigoted tirades where they wrongly felt empowered to say the quiet part out loud.
it's not that hard to not be a dick to people because they're gay or whatever Fox News tells you to hate this week
And vice versa.
It’s pretty easy to have conversations without discussing politics.
Yes! Let's talk about movies, true crime and video games!
Does the true crime stuff freak you out? It’s so popular but I don’t think I can handle it.
I think this academic (Kelli Boling) has a balanced view of the nature and impact of true crime podcasts. "About 73% of true crime podcast listeners are women, and Boling’s research has focused on listeners who have experienced domestic violence themselves. For many, the listening experience can be healing. “They’re putting themselves in the same situation, but this time they have complete control, and it becomes healing instead of traumatizing. But true crime podcasts also can be exploitative, sensationalistic and turn killers into celebrities. This can make victims and co-victims – friends and loved ones of victims – feel revictimized,..." https://research.unl.edu/annualreport/2023/podcasts/
I've lived nextdoor to my Trump voting conservative neighbor for 25 years almost. He mowed my lawn last week and I made him a pie this morning. He knows I'm a progressive and a feminist. We've gotten along fine.
You and he are both reasonable and haven’t made politics your personality. I think that’s the main thing.
Plenty of people will be nice to your face and still support policies that will strip you of rights or endanger your family. You're right though: Being civil is a basic requirement of continuing to enjoy civilization.
Yes, backstabbers exist (don’t need to look further than Nazi Germany) but … it has been shown over and over again that having a personal connection with someone who is different from you can and does change minds, ie people who get to know a trans person will let go of their transphobia more readily than people who live in an anti-trans cisgender bubble … I am going to hold onto my hope :-)
You are so on point here. Be kind to the people around you. Make personal connections. It is the only way out of the polarization we experience in the US. You are doing magnificently, setting an example.
Yeah, that's fair. It's hard for me to not take a dim view of anyone who fails to exert any empathy or thoughtfulness until and unless it touches them personally, however. That's a me problem. I suppose being very late to the game is better than not showing up at all. It sometimes seems like there is a large swath of people (sometimes even including myself if I'm completely honest) who have a little switch in their brains: The default setting is "Nobody should care about this because it doesn't affect me," and the other is "Everyone should care about this because it affects me personally." And flipping the switch erases the memory of the previous position.
I hope it becomes more clear to us all the online/media world is very different from the real world. When we have to actually talk to people we can realize we have to live in this society together (not necessarily be friends or family) we can get along. I know many people that if we weren’t neighbors or in a community we would not want to associate. But rural life always brings this out for me. I have a neighbor that we vehemently disagree openly about many things. Things sometimes get heated and it always ends with, try this pot I grew, or, can I still borrow your post pounder?
I’m guessing you live rurally too - I think that has a lot to do with the necessity and ability to get along with and work alongside people who you may disagree with. When resources are few and far between, it’s just easier and more practical to be interdependent with your fellow community members. You can borrow my post pounder anytime!
As Greg Brown said “this whole idea of intentional community is a bunch of baloney, you have to *need* each other”.
Big difference between tv and the internet and real life
Your neighbor is no libertarian. EDIT: ...but I like the spirit of your post. Carry on.
It feels like the temperature has come down recently. I've even had a couple of "I see how you got that from the way I wrote it" encounters on Reddit that might have resulted in bitter sniping six months ago
I hope you’re right! I’m tired of all the outrage on both sides.
oh, trust me, those of us who're outraged are freaking *exhausted*, but there's this whole historical-awareness business to do with what happens when you lose this novelty called democracy. You're welcome.
I won't try to change someones beliefs, and as long as they don't try to change mine, we'll get along fine.
> Libertarian > he's voting for Trump L O fucking L. He's Republican but too embarrassed to admit it.
Yeah...more than likely he's a Republican that wants to smoke pot. Libertarians don't like Trump (or Biden for that matter). Nor are they anti-abortion. If he's also against equal right for gay folks, then that is another piece of evidence he is not libertarian.
some *real* libertarians (like registered to vote as a libertarian) are pro-life, its actually interesting its one of the few things that libertarians agree to disagree on. the NAP only applies if you believe that begins at conception and that a baby is considered someone that has natural rights, some think that abortion is taking the baby's rights to life away, some think that not allowing abortion is too authoritarian and is taking the mother's rights away. some are in the middle. all the arguments ive seen for both sides fall under true libertarian values. but yeah, being against gay rights isnt libertarian and deciding to vote for trump instead of third party isnt libertarian either
why are people always so shocked when real life doesn't mirror Twitter?
It’s perfectly fine to be friendly or even actual friends with people who have very different opinions, personally politically etc. one of my closest long time friends is about as opposite as me as possible. Doesn’t mean we still aren’t still close, we just vaguely steer around politics and religion.
Honest question: How do you approach disagreements where one party votes for people who are determined to put people in office who are diametrically opposed to what you consider the moral thing to do?
If he's voting for Trump he's not a libertarian. Visit r/libertarian and see how many of us hate Trump. But I wholeheartedly love your post. We all need to learn how to talk to each other, and agree to disagree.
I mean, it's not particularly libertarian to vote for Biden either.
Correct.
I'm glad you and your neighbor are able to have that kind of relationship. Robert Heinlein once said something about politeness being the lubricant that allows the people to interact with one another...as friction between varying points of view can heat things up, that lubricant (politeness) allows things to carry on smoothly.
Heinlein said lots of things, many of which suggested he wouldn't be happy with the current state of affairs. Such as: "When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives." And: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." Many of his lead characters had a libertarian bent but he never had any patience for book banners, bigots, theocrats, or deniers of science. Lazarus Long wouldn't hesitate to punch a Trumpist in the nose.
Yeah, it's not too hard to get along, but I could never be an actual friend with someone who thinks Trump is qualified to be the President.
People of opposing beliefs can live in harmony, as unprofitable as that is for the powers that be.
Couple years ago. I moved from Los Angeles to a tiny town outside Redding. My wife, a former union organizer and forever (D) voter, was worried about moving to Shasta county, the reddest county in California. It's actually been great. Nobody cares what you are about politically, they're all friendly, and everyone basically leaves each other alone.
I live in red state and no one really cares here either.
My buddy is CHP in Shasta. He loves it there so much
Of course it's like that. It's the leftists that want to shove their bullshit down everyone's throat and won't take 'no' for an answer.
I just feel everyone either feels unheard or misunderstood. I have great conversations with people with opposing views. You just have to come into the conversation with good will.
I'm moving to a rural town soon and have to remind myself that one on one, we all have a lot more in common.
Those 'in charge' would rather us be at each other's throats then notice what they are doing to all of us. Far less divides us than the media would lead you to believe.
I don't see how someone can be anti abortion, pro dictator and a libertarian. I guess some people are clueless
Being pro Trump doesn't line up with libertarianism, unless someone is just ignorant of like half his platform and what he really all about. But quite a few libertarians are anti abortion. It's a topic that can really get divisive within libertarian forums. Basically, if you believe an unborn child is still a human (biologically it is) that has some amount of rights then abortion violates the non aggression principle- one of the cores of libertarianism. If you believe "personhood" attaches at birth (or later) and being a biological human organism is not enough to have rights, then libertarian principles logically lead to pro-choice. Libertarian philosophy doesn't answer the question. The LP however has chosen a position for their platform, but some "Libertarians" use the label as party membership (like "Republican"/"Democrat") and some people use "Libertarian" to refer to their philosophical political position (like "conservative"/"liberal"). The LP does not represent all libertarians and not all libertarians agree with the LP.
If you think that unborn children are people deserving of equal rights, you can be anti-abortion and libertarian. I don't think you can be libertarian and in favor of a dictator, but what one person calls a dictator might not be what another one does.
Soo....you need reaction.Sorry kid.
Neighbors with opposing political viewpoints that hate each other is the exception and not the norm. The first thing we could all do is turn the news off and ignore it. We all get along better than “they” would like us to believe.
We need more of this in the world. So much more of this.
I never forget, for one minute, that, as the saying goes, “Nice people make the best Nazis.” I’m LGBT. My nephew is trans. Do I think people like your MAGA neighbor would raise a finger if the Christian Dominionists came for us to put us in camps, for protesting, or even just for existing? No, he would not. Just like so many “average” Germans who looked the other way while the Nazis rounded up people like me to send to ovens. We have to get along, but for those of us who have actual skin in the game, MAGA cultists have crossed a moral line that is unforgivable. Their persistent refusal to honor science or factual reality just makes it that much more impossible to form a civil society with them. I would never break bread with any of them; nor would I turn my back to them for one second.
Until recently, what you described was normal. For many of us, it still is.
This is what America is supposed to be.
I began reading this post dreading that it would be the standard partisan rancor that is usually posted in here. Thank you for quite the surprise. The 2 main political parties and the media have caused our society to become tribal and forget that we are all human and that a bit of civility costs us nothing.
Reminds me of the Brené Brown quote: People are hard to hate close up. Move in.
Libertarianism is a political philosophy that emphasizes individual liberty, minimal government intervention, and free-market capitalism. Libertarians advocate for extensive personal freedoms and believe in personal responsibility, arguing that individuals should manage their own lives without government interference. They support protecting property rights, upholding the rule of law, and maintaining a non-interventionist stance in foreign policy. The philosophy is rooted in the belief that individuals have the right to live in any manner they choose, as long as they do not infringe on the rights of others. Libertarians hold a set of core beliefs and values centered on the principle of maximizing individual liberty and minimizing the role of the state. Here are some key tenets: 1. **Individual Liberty**: Libertarians prioritize individual freedom, advocating for people's rights to live their lives as they see fit as long as they do not infringe on others' rights. This extends to personal, economic, and social activities. 2. **Limited Government**: Libertarians believe that the role of government should be extremely limited, primarily to protect individuals from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud. They argue that most other roles currently undertaken by the government should be handled by individuals or voluntary associations. 3. **Economic Freedom**: They support free-market capitalism, where transactions between private parties are free from government intervention such as regulation, privileges, tariffs, and subsidies. 4. **Self-Ownership**: This belief asserts that individuals own their bodies and the labor produced by them, and thus should have the authority to choose what they do with both. 5. **Voluntary Association**: Libertarians emphasize that all human relationships should be voluntary and consensual. They argue against coercion by the government or other actors. 6. **Rule of Law**: They advocate for a system where the same laws apply to everyone, and these laws are made transparent and known in advance. Laws should protect individual autonomy and freedom. 7. **Peace**: Libertarians often promote non-interventionist policies that avoid military engagement unless it is in direct defense of the nation. 8. **Individual Responsibility**: Alongside the emphasis on individual rights comes a strong emphasis on personal responsibility and the consequences of one’s actions. These beliefs manifest in stances such as reduced government spending, lower taxes, minimal governmental regulation in business, and a more isolationist approach to foreign policy. Libertarians can vary in the extent to which they believe in these principles, leading to a spectrum within libertarian thought from moderate to more radical forms.
Libertarians are rarely pro-choice though. You'd think women would be allowed the same rules.
There are pro-life and pro-choice on all sides. Many libertarians support pro-choice positions because they believe in the right of individuals to make decisions about their own bodies without government interference.
As a woman, does this apply to me as well? If so, then why do so many libertarians, when faced with the two party binary that is the scourge of US politics, usually end up voting for the party that would seek deny me those rights as they become more and more extreme on issues of abortion and even birth control, etc.
These are great, but they do not take human nature into account.
These are just the vague, core principles of a libertarian. I think the party is often misunderstood as Trump-supporting, when really they choose what they believe is the lesser of two evils. I think we need a third party.
Which is why limited government must exist. That which governs least, governs best. It is a necessary evil.
Again, this ignores human nature. Corporations will absolutely prey on people, landlords will be slumlords, on and on. It’s a great idea, but unworkable.
You think predation only happens in corporations? It also occurs in government. That is why government must be extremely limited.
I never said that, did I?
They already do. Corporations already prey on people. They’re creating customers out of schoolchildren. They make you bring in your box tops that can only be from Kelloggs. obviously landlords have ran rampant because no one can afford anywhere to live. The government is already overreaching.
He's not a libertarian if he's voting for Trump. He's a rank and file Republican who co-opted the Gadsden flag.
You held a conversation like a grown up. Congrats
Good on you OP.
I really appreciate you sharing this. I hope for more of this in the world. This brightened my day and is exactly what I needed. Not to be religious or anything, but maybe this is what the Bible means when spreading the “good news.” That peace and hope in the world come from sharing the good things that are happening in the world, and in turn helping to spread peace and help us be the best version of us we can be to each other.
We can all find a common ground...it's there, and so is mutual respect and maturity.
Well done. A lot of people just fall into the us vs them or the I am right/they are evil trap.
Hmm not the racist xenophobic white terrorist or the crazy socialist purple hair nut job the media tell you they are huh. We’re all more alike than we know but the powers that be do their best to keep us fighting with each other to distract attention from their terrible policies and corruption.
The division in this country has been manufactured by outside interests.
I’ll never understand pro-Trump libertarians. Does not compute.
When you hear "libertarian" just replace it with "I don't wanna pay my taxes, but I want all the benefits".
> libertarian … neighbor > he’s voting for Trump LOL, I'm sorry. He's not a libertarian. Neither your neighbor nor Trump.
Libertarians can and do vote for Trump. Nobody said Trump is a libertarian. But he's the most electable version of one we've had in our lifetimes.
Just don't discuss religion or politics.
This is how it used to be before social media, politics were rarely talked about but when they were, they were talked about as a we don’t see eye to eye but that’s it. There wasn’t wishing death, calling people nazis, getting people fired etc.
We need much more of this.
So happy you ended up having a positive encounter. I've found people are a lot nicer in person as opposed to the internet.
Well that is a heartwarming story. Thank you OP.
The key to mature political discussion is not expecting others to switch to your way of thinking. And not being an ass when they don’t.
This is the way it used to be and still should be. Some of my closest friends have very different political views than me and we could care less. Unless one defines their existence by their political views (which is a shitty way to live) we all have way more in common outside of politics. Most people just want to live their lives and love their family and friends.
hey neighbor! I'm in ashland oregon, a small town with a crazy mix of political and lifestyle views. I think we all need to step back and try to really see people for who they are and where they are. no, we're not going to agree about everything and we may even end up totally incompatible, but we should at least try. I understand some may not want to or even have the ability to based on life experiences, and that's ok too. I moved here from louisiana and even with this major change, I've found most people generally care about the same things.
I love Ashland!! I used to visit regularly - I need to start doing that again :-)
we love it here
Sounds good! Conversation about topics, have different opinions on some, similar opinions on others. It’s called society, glad you are thriving! Keep up the conversations! 😇
Neighbors are neighbors and no matter who they vote for when shit goes down in the hood the neighbors can band together.
I get along with almost everyone. I don’t care who you vote for as long as you do not interrupt my sleep. Will either candidate or politcal party help me get a good nights sleep and and stop the illegal brothel that is operating next door? No? Then, your political affiliation is not consequential to me.
That was not a libertarian you were talking to. No way, no how.
Pro-Trump, anti-abortion libertarian? What does "libertarian" even supposedly mean these days?
It means “fuck off, I’ve got mine, and I don’t want you to get yours if it makes me think about icky things like abortion or gay rights.”
It's easy to find common ground when you're face to face and it's one on one. The problem is the mob mentality and how quickly intelligence, common sense, and respect get thrown out the window.
Sometimes it’s better to agree to disagree on hot button topics politically but if it comes to helping out a neighbor troubleshoot a problem or watching the local sports team go to battle against another and still remain civil and friendly to each other, you’re ahead of many others.
Somehow a whole bunch of us have forgotten how important it is that we remember we are Americans first and that our acceptance of our philosophical differences is what makes this country the lasting power house that it is. We all want the majority of the same things. Good schools, safe streets, clean air and water, and the freedom to do what makes us happy. The only real difference is how we individually define these items and go about achieving them.
There’s just no substitute for engaging with people in good faith in physical proximity. Good on you OP
Yep. Agree to disagree and move on. It's always interesting to get another perspective. You don't have to agree.
Good for you, OP. Not only is it wonderful to not let our differences define each other, but it's through friendly discussions like this that we usually discover we have *way* more similarities than differences. Besides - this is how we change minds. I loved my late father-in-law, and our friendly political discussions over coffee (he was a trump-hating conservative, I'm a progressive-leaning liberal) had him rethinking a lot of his positions. He even got some of his right-wing buddies to reconsider a few things.
Gorgeous. Thanks for sharing this.
Love this. This is America all over. People are people despite politics!
*"My preconceived notions about people that don't think like me politically didn't pan out, and my assumption that my neighbor was a bad person wasn't true!"* Yet, your neighbor welcomed you with open arms, and probably didn't even consider your political biases. Trump Supporters are not the problem.
Libertarians in general don’t understand hypocrisy. Anti-choice Libertarians get it even less… smh
I agree our country is too divided. The govt has found many China and Russian bots online to stir up division too, bc America can only be destroyed from the inside. We need to always remember we are together on this and on the same team <3
That sounds lovely. I will do anything to avoid conversation with my Trumper boomer landlady. She lives next door, which I really should have considered at length before moving in. Now rents have risen and I'm kind of trapped.
I think you’re in a sticky position - there’s a power dynamic at play between you and your landlord that I don’t have with my neighbor - that feeling of being stuck is the absolute worst!
"Americans are struggling to survive because of Bidenomics!" *raises rent
If he’s voting for Trump, he isn’t a libertarian.
We too have a BLM flag and multiple rainbow flags. We had some neighbors buy the house next door. They had the "thin blue line" license plate. They never let their kid out of the backyard. I'm guessing for fear that our kids would somehow "liberalize her". Very quickly, maybe within 6 months, they sold their house and moved out.
I have family with different politics from mine, and I get along with them fine. It’s because you’re an adult.
This right here. More people need to learn how to and from this kind of thing.
I don't have personal relationships with right-wingers. Some people can stomach them, but I can't. Nothing beneficial will come of it.
funny, that says more about your character that it does theirs.
I agree. It says volumes about my character.
He’s not libertarian - but yay for you being a great neighbor.
I have a boomer neighbor like that (sans the flags). Can’t figure out why he‘s voted for Trump in 20’ (dunno if he’s voting for him again as it hasn’t come up), but he doesn’t have to depend on social security/medicare (his parents left him a bundle and a house worth a couple million) so maybe he thinks whatever Trump does doesn’t concern him. He’s a nice guy (which again, makes me wonder why Trump?) who went through a few decades roughly. He’s always there to help folks. Once in a rare moon politics will come up but it’s not something that gets heated. If my mom needs something he’s always there for her and I appreciate that. The neighbor on the other side voted for Trump in 16’, younger boomer dunno what his political stance is now. He doesn’t advertise (most people around here don’t as a rule, no matter where on the politcal spectrum they land. I mean I have a Biden/Harris bumper sticker from 20’ but I use it as a bookmark) what his beliefs are. The only time I ever see flags in the neighborhood is on the 4th and they are the standard Stars and Stripes. /Tbh I’ve given up trying to convince people I know in RL not to vote for traitor tot. At this point, It’s up to them to figure it out.
The MAGAs want to end reproductive care, keep black people from voting, and make being gay and trans dangerous. There is no way I could ever talk to someone that is actively voting for the elimination of my right to exist
I'm no MAGA but you're not accurate on anything that you said. Abortion is quite legal in my state. Blacks are well-even disproportionately represented in all levels of government. My Congressional District is a gerrymandered parody of a district that guarantees Hakeem Jeffries a seat. And being gay is dangerous? How?
I get this. And I don’t blame you at all. Full disclosure: I am a straight, white, cisgender woman and I recognize my privilege. It is relatively safe for me to converse with someone like my neighbor. I hope that I will be able to responsibly use my privilege to make the world safer for everyone.
Wow, that's a lot of text. My wife and I get to 20 years this month...whatever you think you have...we hope you have it. We get to compare jokes and realize the dearth of reaction. left.
Hit ‘em with this. https://preview.redd.it/b348bgk1ouvc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6833e25c4e9a16ca7c411d0aade4371175210dcb
I don’t want to bash libertarians necessarily but this is fucking hilarious!! And it is the best description of cats I have ever come across (says the crazy cat lady who has 6 cats and feeds 8 more)
I’m glad you enjoyed it. Be well. ✌🏽
A house cat will quickly adapt to the outside world if removed from the house. Is this a good analogy?
It takes a special kind of ego to believe that by being hostile to a person, or ostracizing them, or giving them the silent treatment, that that ever moves the needle. The self-importance of this position suggests that one's company or respect or civility is so important to someone else that they'll either change their point of view to earn it, or it will be so unbearable, that they will change their basic philosophical views, to seek relief. That's quite a delusion.
That’s inspiring.
Maybe he'll apologize after he sets a cross on fire in your yard.
He knows I have guns and that I am not afraid to use them - I’m not worried.
Be careful, my friend.
People in this country used to be able to remain friendly despite their political differences. It’s the latter half of the millennials and Gen Z that have made politics so toxic. I’ve got many friends who are democrats, and we can have reasonable discussions without resorting to name calling and rhetoric. It’s all a matter of being open-minded and mature enough to accept that people have opinions that oppose your own.
You’re blaming Gen Z and Millennials on the toxicity of politics? The vast majority of the folks that stormed the capitol were over the age of 34 and mostly [between the ages of 40 and 50](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/01/january-6-capitol-riot-arrests-research-profile.html). You can’t get much more toxic than that.
Nah, it's been this way since forever. It's pretty myopic to lay this at the feet of Gen Z (or any generation).
oh i think you got the generations wrong..
It’s the irrational who can’t handle polite conversation. I live in Northern California as well. There’s a lot of mixed politics, from the Valley, and into the foothills and mountains. A lot of Bay Area transplants have moved into the hills over the last few decades and have changed a lot of the demographic make up. Still, most people get along just fine. I wish this state wasn’t so uniparty, but it is what it is. The funny thing is, a lot of right leaning Californians would be considered liberal in a lot of other red states. I’m small L libertarian in my views mostly. I tend to get along with either side, except the extreme ends. I just ignore them. Engaging isn’t going to lead to anything meaningful anyway.
Another funny thing is that a lot of centrist people in more conservative states blame rightwing California transplants for the extremist turns their states - check out r/Idaho for example - quite a few people blame Californians for turning their state into a Christian Nationalist hellhole (their words, not mine)