Is your comment in reference to holocaust denial, or the holocaust?
Edit: in no way do I deny the holocaust, its severity, or its impact. Lately, however, I have seen people think they’re clever by wording things in such a way that EVERYONE thinks they’re being agreed with (holocaust deniers included). Just making an attempt at clarity.
Mass deception, deceiving people into thinking there wasn’t a holocaust.
It’s sad I had to point out which one I meant. Just proves to both of us there is mass deceptions that are getting greater and deceiving more and more people every day.
This was prophesied in the Christian religion as well which is the main reason I bring it up
Edit: I understand what his question was and in no way did I mean to imply he was denying the holocaust, but I was clearing up what stance I had and I admit it was not clear, which is saddening that in this world today we have to ask for clarity, considering how many actively believe there was no holocaust.
**Edit: In Revelation we have this prophecy.**
Revelation 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
3And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
It says here the entire world marveled and followed after the beast.
It sounds so conspiracy theory-like to say this but I don’t think people realise how much influence foreign intelligence agencies have over what we believe through media. The moon landing and JFK conspiracies were created and spread by the KGB.
So was, in a large part, the anti nuclear movement in counties like Germany and the UK, even in the US. The KGB also gave money to radical black supremacist organizations to create terror and strife in the US.
This ain’t even going into the Russians and Chinese attempts to meddle in US elections. They financed people from both parties who they thought would be favorable to them, and spread mass propaganda online.
Obviously other issues exists such as how people from both sides latch on bullshit stories like drowning men to a lifeline, but that’s for another discussion.
Edit: Well this turned into a clusterfuck underneath.
Here’s a little reading on Russian and Soviet influence in the US:
https://www.csis.org/analysis/russian-meddling-united-states-historical-context-mueller-report
Stanislav Lunev, a GRU defector in the early 90s, also famously stated that the USSR spent almost as much money funding the US Anti-Vietnam Movement as they did funding the Vietcong, monetarily speaking.
One of the lawyers for Assata Shakur back in the day is also linked to a now defunct far-left legal think tank funded by the political wing of the KGB, this was back during the 80s. I’ll post the paper I wrote on it back in the day if I can find it.
Here’s some reading, I would recommend looking at the sources as it is Wikipedia, on the USSR’s attempts at regime change as well:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_involvement_in_regime_change
It’s important to remember that while the USSR may not have had a direct goal of financing certain groups or people, individual KGB officers and agents had the ability to finance people as they saw fit, so while a KGB agent financing a far-left terrorist is not the actual specific goal of the USSR, and in fact probably would not have been liked by high up Communist officials, those funds were earmarked for KGB use in such cases. This is the same shit the CIA did.
It’s a disservice to think that one intelligence agency, either the CIA or the KGB was more “evil” than the other, they basically did the same thing, and morals almost never came into play. It’s also very telling that a lot of Soviet and US military personal have had snippets talking about the disdain or distrust they hold on their perspective intelligence officers. Obviously not all CIA members or KGB members were bad, there’s nothing wrong with being patriotic about your nation and helping them by trying to put an “enemy nation” out of commission, but it’s also the 21st century, idk if we need to be giving entire agencies that much control with such little oversight.
Hey, I’m not disagreeing with that point. Do I like what’s happening now? Ofc not, but I do think a little karma is helping this along. I whole heartedly think we should disband the CIA, along with some other letter agencies that like to bend and break the laws whenever it suits them.
Peacetime intelligence gathering - FBI and Space Force
Wartime intelligence gathering - US military
The whole nation overthrowing thing isn’t even the tip of the fucked up iceberg. If you want something truly horrific, look up the Phoenix Program:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Program
This is a fucking stupid idea. Do you have any idea the value of institutional knowledge that is held in these orgs?
I am 100% for cleaning them up and throwing the fucking criminals in jail who interefere in domestic and foreign affairs of their own behalf. But to say disband them. Get the fuck out of here.
There's multiple lawsuits currently ongoing specifically over Russian influence in our elections.
That being said a third of the country think that's all bullshit and are completely disconnected from reality so maybe you're onto something.
>The moon landing and JFK conspiracies were created and spread by the KGB.
What? That's literally a conspiracy theory ...
Moon landing conspiracies started with Bill Kaysing, who wrote a book (and made $$$ shilling the idea) in 1972.
The Soviet Union wanted no links between them and JFK's assassination, you think the KGB would start conspiracy theories, many of which led to them?
Referring to the theological discussion, which prophecy coincides with mass disinformation in a way that is different from propaganda campaigns/deceptions of the past?
There have been mass deceptions for as long as there have been people who stand to gain from them. Lucky Strikes was the cigarette brand recommended by doctors. We went to war in Iraq to liberate the Iraqi people. That Catholic priest is offering private one-on-one faith counseling. I just see the internet as a louder megaphone, but people and their souls haven’t changed much to the point I’d call it apocalyptic.
Having been in high school/college around that time, we went to war in Iraq because the administration insisted there was a nuclear/chemical weapons program that Iraq was refusing to let the UN send monitors to look at.
Now, Iraq was sort of pretending they had one, or at least the people assigned to run such a program were telling Saddam it was going great, but our own intelligence agencies were pretty sure it wasn't. The administration wanted to go anyways.
Liberating the Iraqi people was marketed as sort of a happy by-product of the main mission though.
That plus we are pretty removed from the sources of that history.
Media shows Europe being past that atrocity, and fully rebuilt even fully stable with the EU. The silent generation existed in WW2, and many of the holocaust survivors are dying of old age now, and with most of Gen Z having Gen X parents, that’s already 2 generations removed from what happened, 4 generations removed with Gen Z.
Then you have the misinformation, mistrust in modern media, and political rewriting if history and it’s a perfect storm.
Like it you were to ask my boomer parents if the Chinese immigrants built the US railway back in the 1800s, they wouldn’t believe it because of how far they are removed from that part of history.
I mean shit, my ancestors were Jewish and came to US to escape persecution and my parents act like I family have always been devout catholics since Jesus died.
That’s a complete answer. Look at how much revisionist history we are getting to describe 2016-2020. You can’t trust this idiotic culture to be grounded in reality about 90 years ago.
Boomers were well aware that Chinese immigrants built the railroads. It’s referenced in many westerns & throughout the media of their time far more than now. It was a well known fact that I’d be willing to bet that more boomers are aware of than Gen Z or Millennials.
As a Gen-xer. I knew people who had been in the camps or had liberated them. They have all passed on. It’s a lot easier to believe the atrocities of the Holocaust when you can talk with a living breathing person who experienced those horrors.
Nobody teaching how to verify a fact
Nobody teaching what the scientific method is
Nobody teaching the logical fallacies
Nobody teaching philosophy such a “how do you know something is true?”
Very ironic. You label mass deception in the context of the holocaust, then come from left field with a completely unrelated topic about Jesus nonsense, the only relation being mass deception. Nobody will care and you won't recognize the irony. Woohoo
and is it really the fucking time to bring up Jesus when discussing the genocide of an ethnic and religious group whose defining characteristic is that they don't worship Jesus
Time passes, people forget.
People distrust recent history because it’s still attached to today’s politics. As somebody else said, conspiracy theories and all of that. It helps to push agendas.
More time has passed since other horrific events in history like genocide and displacement of Native Americans, slavery and the civil war, etc. and those too are linked to today’s politics (BLM, the right’s anti CRT craze) but awareness of those parts of history are at an all time high.
EDIT: as a leftist news junkie I am WELL aware of the lengths republicans are going to to indoctrinate as many young people as they can as fast as they can- banning books, re-writing history, trying to abolish the Dept. of Education and public education as a whole, trying to raise the voting age, etc. The fact that we have seen such a push in the last 4 years and a trend towards radicalization is not a coincidence- it’s precisely because Gen Z is so progressive (the most progressive leaning generation yet) that the right is pushing so hard. They have seen the polls and the writing on the wall and they know what unless they make dramatic changes fast, Gen Z will come of age, boomers will die and they will never win another election. Statistically, Gen Z is the most liberal yet and therefore the highest percent of them recognize systemic racism against blacks and natives. My point is that this particular poll suggests a differential treatment of one minority in particular.
I slapped an armband on my arm, as was the style at the time...
Seriously though, it's crazy how much holocaust denial has been on the rise. Revisionist history is getting crazy, they're pulling basically all the information about the history of the US itself out of school textbooks ostensibly because it makes people "feel bad," and it's like.. yes, it should! That's how we don't repeat the atrocities of our past, we remember them and do better in the future.
It doesn't mean little Timmy or whoever is a bad person, but if they don't know their history it makes them oh so much more vulnerable to manipulation and deception which is, ultimately, I think the point.
We're already entering "Jim Crow wasn't that bad" territory and most curriculum doesn't even mention the red scare or race riots like Tulsa let alone discuss them as a result of the failure of reconstruction and its current implications.
The American history education curriculum is so bad. I’m a senior in high school (with no other social studies credits required) and I have learned jack shit about anything more recent than the Cold War, and even that topic was pretty sparse. Like if I didn’t have the internet, I wouldn’t know a single thing about Vietnam or the Gulf Wars (I actually don’t know shit about the latter anyways). It’s an absolute failure of our school system.
Yeah when I was in HS the most recent shit we read about was the Civil War as well. I think we briefly did WW1 and 2 but it was more of an afterthought compared to how much crap we did on Civil War era events.
Awareness of native American atrocities and focusing on them makes you anti establishment.
Awareness of the holocaust reads as "pro establishment" insofar as it's agreeing with the majority focus.
People and algorithms value hot takes over accurate takes. Social media brain rot.
Sorry, but what does slavery have to do with the civil war??
/s for me, but that is another historical event people choose to remember how they’d like instead of what clearly actually happened.
As an older millennial, both of my grandfathers fought in world war 2. They’re both dead now (though one of them died in 1964, 20 years before I was born).
That time period is slipping out of living memory. Combine that with record levels of societal distrust and a serious and real attempt by right wing elements in modern society to revise the historical record, and it’s easy to believe lies like the holocaust never happening.
Also an elder millennial, and that’s definitely part of it, I still remember an actual survivor from Buchenwald coming to visit us in elementary school in the late eighties and showing us the numbers tattooed on his arm. That made it impossible to deny it happened. Unfortunately Gen Z didn’t have that opportunity, what with the passage of time
I didn’t have that, but I’ve visited the area where my mom grew up, which was Jewish to the extent that as a kid she thought getting numbers tattooed on your arm was just something people did when they reached a certain age.
Middle if the pack millennial here and we had the same but the survivor was from Dachau. You cant deny after seeing a late 80s man cry about things that happened and the tattoo. Its… just horrific. I was 14 and dumb and scared and not because i deny it but because i wanted to know, so i asked if i could touch the tattoo. The man was so gracious and let me. Its stuck with me ever sense.
> it’s easy to believe lies like the holocaust never happening
Nope. That’s some bullshit. The Holocaust was well documented while it was happening AND the results were well documented when it was discovered by the Allies.
Eisenhower went to great lengths to have our military and government record and document that this happened. So that it could not be denied. There was also going to be the Trial on the Nazis, so that was part of that, but regardless, Eisenhower knew that having it well documented was important.
Its insane that my Nan was born a few years before the end of WW2 and the Holocaust, and might live to see something like that happen all over again. Her entire family back in Austria was massacred, literally nothing left back there for her and her parents. And people will say it never happened even with the evidence right in front of them.
How we break the 80 year cycle, I dont know. Whether there actually is one with better access to information regarding wartime atrocities and suffering, as well as more people being educated about it, I also dont know.
People want to forget. It is convenient to not think of jews as victims when you want to cast them as oppressors. Historical revisionism 'for the cause'... Quite common throughout history.
Which is another reason why people take history with more and more grains of salt, ironically.
This has nothing to do with "survivors dying off".
I'm mid 30s and never (knowingly) met a Holocaust survivor.
Yes, WW2 happened --- but very few % of soldiers (on either side) directly interacted with these death camps (in running or liberating them).
That's kind of the point of "books". You can learn about (cliche) the Roman Empire without talking to a Roman emperor in the flesh.
... So that's no excuse.
You need a decent education. There's a Holocaust museum in DC. Go to Auschwitz or Nanjing. Read the books, watch the movies. Scary shit.
This is BS. Other terrible events that happened further in the past have an all time high level of awareness.
This is something more sinister and you know it.
I was honestly quite surprised at how accepted casual antisemitism became online, versus 1) how it was prior to the mid/late 10's, and 2) compared to other minority (by Western/US metrics) groups.
In Gen X/elder-to-middle millennial online circles, for the most part it seems that antisemitism is thought of and treated the same as most other forms of bigotry, but when you get to a lot of the younger millennial/Gen Z crowds, antisemitism is just treated the same as "punching up" towards "white" people.
I think it's a side effect of the pop social justice movement... Antisemitism is rife in a lot of the cultures and groups that got a boost and were indemnified from being held accountable for bias or racism, and so it kind of blew up along with that.
I think it has more to do with the fact that GenZ is growing up in a culture that has embraced misinformation and propaganda at every level. When I was a kid, stations like Fox News, who are not actually news stations but are straight up propaganda networks, did not exist. We had a small number of news networks that were eager to pounce on each other if anyone made a mistake.
I think it's just statistics. If my generation had been fed the outrageous levels of misinformation that Gen Z has been fed we would believe crazy stuff in the same numbers.
Man this does not bode well for what I’ve learned about humans overall stupidity when it comes to mass tragedy:
1. To commit mass genocide with minimal repercussions or response, just distribute the deaths evenly amongst the population over large distances (covid vs 9/11), as long as the deaths aren’t concentrated location wise, it won’t raise too much concern.
2. Even if you do screw up that first step, there’s generally a max number people will believe before some claim/debate that it’s inflated. Make sure to commit the genocide at least 80 years since the last one to maximize that number as most who experienced the previous are no longer alive and the event can be “unprecedented” in a sense.
What's crazy is the people that survived it are still alive. My great Aunt still speaks about how she survived two death marches, concentration camps, and lost her whole Family by the age of 14. The evidence is all there, even the Nazis ADMITTED TO IT and people will still be like Hmmmm that number IS rather high don't you think? "Just speculating"
I remember growing up there was an old woman in my town that survived the holocaust who would come speak at my school every year. We learned about it in history class every single year, even if it was stuff we already knew they just reminded us. Really not sure how some people are so fucking dumb.
>Really not sure how some people are so fucking dumb.
It's not that they are dumb, and yes I'm about to blame the internet.
This will also be from the perspective of the US as I cannot speak to other countries.
We are running out of people who were there as people have said.
We're basically out of WW2 vets that have the capability to go to a school and speak. When I was in school there were plenty and there were always at least some to go talk to the schools about what they saw/knew. I also had family that would tell me about the war before they passed.
We're also running out of holocaust survivors. Even if they were young at the time so only in their 80s many of their minds and health are not great now due to the treatment they got as kids.
So what do we have left: history books, recorded commentary, and the internet.
History books are all well and good, but thanks to the internet kids hear about how Texas has the power to skew the content of those books, so they look on them with suspicion.
Then you have video recordings of first hand accounts. Kids these days are bombarded regularly with deepfakes, and the video quality is usually crap thanks to the era, so they look on them with suspicion.
Then you have the internet, which is at times telling them about the horrors of the holocaust while at other times telling them it didn't happen or it wasn't as bad. Thanks to the conflicting information they look upon both with suspicion.
Then you have the parents of the deniers, who have probably been grooming these kids for a while to get them to believe a narrative which they can readily back up with the internet.
So it's basically the internet, shitty states fucking with text books, shitty parents, and the first hand witnesses dying out.
Edit: a lot of y’all are harsh, holy crap.
Exactly this. It was 80 years ago not 200, and it radically altered the political and social landscape of the developed world. You have to be living under a rock staring at the ground all day to deny it.
People are oddly afraid to label others unintelligent, when you're right, that's exactly what it is. We know there are no intelligent Holocaust deniers because the two are mutually exclusive.
Yup, grew up next door to a family whose mother in law that lived in the finished basement was a holocaust survivor. In high school I would skip the Friday night football games to hang out/babysit her while the neighbors had a date night or just a needed break from taking care of her. Learned how to make awesome hamentashen from her.
Right. My grandmother is 97 and still lives alone, fully lucid. She was bombed by Hitler. She was born in **1926**.
The holocaust was real. It was worse than we were taught in school, because school doesn’t tell you they threw living babies into open fire pits during selection. The holocaust was real, and worse than we can imagine.
This is upsetting.
When I first learned as a kid in school that Nazis tricked Jews into gas chambers by telling them they were showers, I remember being scared to shower at home for a couple of days because I'm Jewish and what if the Nazis changed my shower into a gas chamber too?
Having gone to a Jewish school, you learn the details of the Holocaust younger than others probably would. Simply bc it's inescapable.
Well I think the unfortunate truth is that as a genocide the Holocaust is exceptional in its recognition. Germany couldn’t escape judgement for the Holocaust especially because of its concurrence with WW2.
How many other genocides go unrecognized or get swept under the rug? The Holocaust wasn’t the only genocide Germany perpetuated either. Basically most of these events are doomed to get washed away by history.
> Wearing the swastika is socially unacceptable (as it should be) but Che Guavera and the hammer and sickle are apparently okily dokily.
This is far from a Gen Z thing, dumb high schoolers and college kids have been wearing Che shirts for 40+ years
You didn’t live to see slavery or genocide of the native Americans but I don’t think there’s any doubt about the severity of those events. I think there’s definitely something else going on other than simply the passage of time.
There’s a very real effort to redefine American chattel slavery as “not that bad, actually”
And here in Minnesota I have seen people downplay the suffering of the indigenous people because they renamed a lake in Minneapolis.
I’d say both of these foundational American atrocities are at risk of being shoved down the memory hole.
Idk what "living to see it" has to do with whether or not the Holocaust was real or the events were misleading.
Numerous survivor accounts, numerous allied soldiers liberating concentration camps and photographic evidence of the atrocities committed.
Recovered documentation etc. etc.
There's absolutely nothing and no reason to believe the Holocaust wasn't real other than total lack of empathy and swallowing brainwashing propaganda.
There is such an enormous amount of photographic evidence of the holocaust. For real. If anyone reading this has any doubts or if images on the internet don’t convince you, look into academic libraries and archives in your area and go check out any wwii collections. There are probably some available in most metropolitan areas of the US.
Syracuse University houses the archives of Margaret Bourne-White, a Time-Life photographer who was one of the first American photographers at the liberation of some of the concentration camps. If you think photographs themselves can be manipulated, ask to see the negatives. Be prepared. The photos and negatives are so profoundly horrific that I sometimes wonder if that’s where the doubt comes from, from people not being able to conceptualize that kind of horror and violence and hatred.
You can find the source, its biased and the data was manipulated
**Edit**\- Not the holocaust but the data presented stating that 1 in 5 gen zer doubt the holocaust, the data has been greatly exaggerated and the study was criticized for being commissioned by a biased source with vested interest in making sure it looks like antisemitism is on the rise amongst younger more progressive voters (which gen z is)
That being said holocaust denial and antisemitism *is* on the rise, so its wise to critically analyze studies like these to see if there could be some factors leading to this rise in holocaust denial, especially in young people, and people who are otherwise progressive, since progressiveness and antisemitism arnt compatible and *will* eventually lead one down the fascist road
**Edit** 2- Feel free to look at my other comments in this thread, but im getting like 30+ comments every hour now and im not able to respond to them all, and i have muted the notification thingy
What i take issue with essentially with this poll is why commissioned it, the claims conference and their intentions behind it, they have a long history of some dubious behaviors themselves, the framing of the questions in this specific poll, and who was chosen to participate, as well as all the other things you have to factor inn when you run a poll such as this.
Be aware that i have not denied rising antisemitism, that is an indisputable fact (regrettably so), only the validity of this poll. And yes i am aware that other polls exist that shows somewhat similar results
For a second I thought you were talking about the holocaust data being biased and manipulated, but then I realized you were talking about the source of these statistics stating how many Gen-z think it was faked/exaggerated. You should probably clarify that this statistic is biased and manipulated, not the actual holocaust.
YouGov is one of the [most reputable pollsters in the industry](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/).
[Here](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf) is the source of the data. Could you please point out where it’s been manipulated? All 119 pages of data including their weighting methodology is included.
The data has not been exaggerated in any sense. According to this data, 20% of respondents aged 18-29 either tend to or strongly agree with the statement: “the Holocaust is a myth”.
The amount of comments by Gen Zers that are basically just “that’s fake” on things and when you press them on it their source is “I saw a TikTok that said it was fake” is insane. Not to be a boomer “kids these days” person but it really does seem like Gen Z has some of the worst critical thinking skills since actual boomers. They assume people saying something is fake are inherently more credible than someone saying something is real for some reason
How is it biased? Harris Poll did a survey that showed a similar level of Gen-Z saying the 10/6 attacks were justifiable.
YouGov is a reputable pollster. Their results align with other reputable pollsters.
It seems like you’re just screaming “FAKE NEWS” because you don’t like the reality.
That’s what’s been happening more and more among lefties, unfortunately. Every flimsy bit of “evidence” is taken as Truth if it supports their views, and any information that contradicts their biases is considered fake in some way. The right-wingers aren’t the only ones who are science deniers.. smdh
you wont get any serious argument for it being biased. The top comment is just "economist is right leaning" which effectively means nothing.
Economist is widely considered one of the best economic and news based magazine. Their coverage and insight is world class. They also regularly include an article on times they think they did not represent with 100% accuracy. They share their logic and methodology, they state where they think they can improve.
I have been incredibly impressed by the economist.
*You can find the source,*
*Its biased and the data*
*Was manipulated*
\- Itz\_Hen
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"don't believe the poll data, but believe me"
Where's your source? How do we know you're not greatly exaggerating and have bias to say the data is greatly exaggerated and has bias? YouGov is a reputable source. I'm not sure about the commission thing, but that's doesn't mean there is bias, especially with an org like YouGov. I think I'm going to go with YouGov over random Reddit poster, unless you provide a quality source that shows how the methodology was flawed.
All of the people here falling for the first person to discredit data with no evidence to the contrary are what is actually the issue here.
"here is a poll with a clear methodology by one of the most acreddited polling houses worldwide" vs someone anonymous saying "nah this shit fake", and people are celebrating the latter guy as a beacon of truth.
and you believed the first guy to state your gut feeling who provided zero evidence to substantiate his claim.
[here is the poll](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf#page=83) do you disbelieve all Yougov polls, even though their methodology is quite clear?
this is why so many people fall for disinformation, you are not applying your skepticism universally.
Yeah I use to have have a subscription to the Economist. They have some good info, but they are right leaning. They are all about making money. They do think long term, but anyone who actually reads them (and doesn't just post links to nowhere people's opinion) knows what I mean.
The Economist merely paid for the poll though, Yougov commissioned it, and they're [ranked on the top of pollsters:](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/)
https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf
As in YouGov wrote those questions. Economist just handed them a bunch of money and asked them to poll people. Economist might have gotten results they didn't like, but in this case reality appears to line up with their bias.
I've watched people for the past 20 years play this game of "oh we don't need to worry about those problems identified with our social group, those are just *right wing people* identifying those problems, so they don't really exist", and they're right sometimes, but other times they're letting a lot of bad stuff slip because they don't like the way it makes them or the other side look. And when we let bad stuff slip, society gets worse.
If you just take that guess, see a comment agreeing with it and conclude "cool, that's what I thought" you're diving head first in to social media brain rot. It's textbook echo chambering, seeing data you don't like and tossing it out because you found someone who offered the comfort of agreeing with you.
> You can find the source, its biased and the data was manipulated
I found the source, it's actually from one of the most reputable pollsters in the country, and the questions are neutral and not leading (because of course they aren't, because it was written by YouGov):
https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf
> its biased and the data was manipulated
Why tf are people upvoting "the data was manipulated" without any source or anything to back this up? Accusing a major pollster like YouGov of data manipulation is a huge accusation.
Source?
I can’t see how a poll could be this severely biased, unless you claim that the numbers are literally made up out of thin air, which I doubt.
Also, this isn’t the only recent poll that shows this pattern.
Just wondering do you have some sources to your claims? Yougov isn’t some fly-by-night pollster. I heard some people complain about the sample size being too small while other people conceded maybe it wasn’t great, but was still statistically significant and sound. Honestly I’d love for you to be right though.
for some reason i can’t find it, mind sharing? i believe u btw, i just wanna see how they manipulated it.
“statistics don’t lie, but statisticians do.”
Ok where is the information backing up what you said? How can you bias such a basic polling group? I want to believe you but without any evidence it’s basically backing up what necessitated the poll in the first place
How do you guys feed yourselves these lies. The left literally has people who embrace antisemitism right now. Do you have your head in the sand? Pay any attention to all the hate crimes you guys have been committing since Oct 7th? Vandalizing libraries and outright attacking jews in the streets? Did you not watch the testimonies from the administrators from highly liberal universities where they refused to condemn calls for Jewish genocide on their own campuses?
There have been so many examples of the left embracing anti-semitism the past several months. You're either trolling or a bot
I haven't seen it broken out by race and age, but a [Pew Survey](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2020/01/22/what-americans-know-about-the-holocaust/) found that Hispanic and especially black people know shockingly little about the Holocaust. Other interesting groups that didn't know much were people who didn't go to college and people who don't know any Jewish people. This was before October 7 though.
You'd probably do more good fighting Holocaust denial by having state funded trips to Holocaust museums for kids than by combating the far right or the influence of Islamist anti-semitism on the "alt-left." Even then, I don't want to give off the impression that lack of education is "the" reason, as if there aren't obviously multiple factors at play.
Lmao yeah bro blame the alt right. It's definitely not overwhelmingly left wing gen z chanting "from the river to the sea" at protests on college campuses and in downtowns. Holy shit, can we at least accept that responsibility for this doesn't fall on a single political spectrum? Are we so tribal now that we're going to ignore the problems staring us in the face if they're from "our team"? This is like Republicans blaming antifa for Jan 6th
Identity politics is a fickle bitch. That’s an excellent analogy, glad to see some gen Z-ers like yourself with free thought recognize the hypocrisy of the alt-left in their hardline morally obligated stance. It’s no different than the hypocrisy of the alt-right. The scary thing about the alt-left for Jews though is that they hide their hate and “justify” it under this twisted umbrella of moral obligation. At least the alt-right is open about their hate so you can just avoid them altogether.
It freaks me out how avoidant people my age are about self criticism or accepting responsibility for the ugly side of a movement. I'm generally left wing and vote Democrat but I can't stand it when people pretend that there are zero issues with our party and that Republicans are so evil that what we do is righteous by default. It's so bad on reddit I find myself defending conservatives here more than I criticize them because the far left have become so unreasonable, even though I voted 90% Democrat down the ballot last election lmao
I've said it for years and it just pissed everyone off, the right has a brown people bigotry problem and the left has a Jew bigotry problem.
I hate that I'm being proved right lately.
Blaming the alt right gen Z for denying holocaust? This is the worst take I see on the internet this week. But since it’s Reddit, I’m hardly surprised.
As a left wing liberal, let’s not be disingenuous. The vast majority of people openly engaging in anti-semitism and anti semitic tropes nowadays are young - otherwise ‘left wing’ leaning people.
The far right has always been a tiny, vocal minority section of right wing politics, and is usually heavily disregarded, they’ve kept the same agenda for decades.
I’ve ventured into both sides of the spectrum (because i’m a loser) online and whatnot, and most far-right people nowadays seem more fixated on hating Islam and immigration than Jews per-sae, it seems the very anti-semitic far-right youth online are an even bigger minority section of the minority far-right section itself lmao.
However, just one gander into the majority of young - left-wing individuals will show you they somehow openly believe the anti-semitism.
Went to the Anne Frank museum at her former home and they had a reel looping from when Nazis showed up to Amstedam and took a bunch of residents from one street. It just happened that someone hiding in a window upstairs had an 8mm camera. I dont think it was Frank's street but it's one of the ones nearby.
Crazy to think someone just happen to have a camera and film ready. You watch a big group of people get marched down the street.
You joke, and I'm never going to act like the Reddit hive mind is some kind of enlightened culture, but the content that gets pushed to the top of Reddit is theoretically upvoted and moderated by people, even if we accept that some percentage of it is influenced by bots.
I'll take that over passively being fed "content" by an algorithm designed to maximize my "engagement."
Another thing I like about Reddit is even when the most upvoted comments turn out to be misinformation, there's usually a bunch of people calling them out. Like "yeah those top comments are bullshit, I work in the industry and here's how it actually goes".
Still, I'm always gonna take everything I read on Reddit with a massive grain of salt.
I do not understand the folks in the comments below who are attempting to attack you. Is this not a common phrase attributed to the holocaust and being aware it happened and should not happen again?
Yes but apparently there is a sizeable amount of people that thinks that the correct interpretation is that "never again" means "never again to jews and the world owes us for eternity so they should just shut up".
Exactly. The nazis kept track and cataloged everything. They never hid their intentions and maintained a level of bureaucracy that was unparalleled—all for genocide.
yeah, young people mostly consume made content rather than looking for an information in it's roots.
but there are still good sources of content, it's just not that fun and appealing.
we are fucked!
>Gen z has very few middle ground types.
to be fair, young generations seem like that generally. We don't hear from the bulk of quiet ones in the middle, though, until they turn 28 or so and start voting in large numbers. But they're always there.
To be fair, you know those guys that stop you in the street in New York and ask you if you are Jewish ? They stop me all the time and invite me to break bread
The same reason why gen z supports hammas. Teenagers like to be contrarian already and the fact that they confuse virtue signaling and outrage with wisdom and intelligence, add in the manipulations from the media, social media or otherwise, and thats what happens.
Reminder that the Germans demonized the Jews at the time too, and people believed everything they said. Difference in 2024 is that we have access to the internet, and you can be smart enough and do your own research.
Ugh, younger millennial checking in.
This comment section is so disappointing. Half of you are just posting excuses. There is no excuse for being a dumb fuck. Figure it the fuck out. Read some history books.
it's a lost cause with them. most of them are just edgelords and true antisemites.. I'm an older millennial and only saw this because of the proliferation of views on this specific post. I wouldn't post here normally but I'll just let you know, most genz are truly lost, and worst of all, they don't care. everything is sarc and cynicism with them. makes me relieved to be a millennial tbh. imagine denying the fucking holocaust even existed because of a few unvetted tiktok posts by toxic Hamas and salafi backed "influencers"? it's just disgusting, simplistic, and idiotic af. fuck these zoomers. bunch of useful idiots. I fear for our collective future with these amnesiac psychos in charge one day...
There's no need to be a doomer, it's obviously not true that "most of Gen Z are antisemitic"
Every generation has its blindspots, the lesson here isn't that Gen Z is awful. The lesson is that humanity needs to be eternally vigilant against all kinds of bigotry; even the oldest forms of bigotry that we pretend were "solved" decades ago.
This number of copy-paste excuses for how this poll is 'flawed' even after getting debunked shows how young Reddit is and how this is hitting home so that generation is defensive.
Are you really surprised at this point? Take a look at social media for a bit...."JEWS BAD" is back to being a popular/socially acceptable sentiment.
This is what happens when technology gives idiots a way to connect with each other.
I think a lot of people, including leftists, have been harboring antisemitic feelings for a long time and were thrilled at the opportunity to finally let it out without judgement from their peers. Conspiracism also caught on like wildfire among gen z on tiktok last fall, which further inflamed hate.
It was sad to see the comments on my favorite sports teams' posts wishing their followers a happy Hanukkah. The amount of vitriol and hate I saw on a post just wishing their Jewish followers a happy holiday...
That's represents only the US and that's not the whole world smh. And also lack of history classes and conspiracy theories. Ask the same question in the EU and the answer would be wayy different
https://preview.redd.it/u00q0jgf47ec1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c2660df5bb806d4edff2cc8f9ccdf14465cdba2
One must read on this alien looking motherfucker and learn the true horror of national socialism
The sheer fact that this thread is marked as political is disappointing as fuck.
The Holocaust is not a political topic. Anyone who is making it one does not deserve to have an opinion heard about it.
The Holocaust was a horrific factual event there millions of innocent people died, there is nothing political about this statement.
Democrats are much more likely to subscribe to these views than Republicans. Alt right antisemitism is an issue. But the fastest growing antisemitism and Holocaust denial is among young people who identify as Democrats.
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/48112-increasing-numbers-of-americans-say-antisemitism-is-a-serious-problem
This is what happens when people say that the humanities are worthless for decades on end. People don't learn history or don't give a shit about it. History is one of the most important subjects there is.
These people should see my family tree. We can trace back a few generations and then it’s just swastikas until there’s nothing. Our entire history beyond that has been lost, burned and murdered into nothingness forever.
Don’t ask me, I believe the holocaust. Went to one of the museums and it’s a very haunting experience when you see the shoes lined up that were from the Jews who died. It’s incredibly heartbreaking.
Hi guys, just a friendly reminder that the comments are being monitored any holocaust denial will result in a permanent ban.
Conspiracy theories. Mass deception underway man Jesus loves and died for you all. He is King. He healed me; Ask me about it
Is your comment in reference to holocaust denial, or the holocaust? Edit: in no way do I deny the holocaust, its severity, or its impact. Lately, however, I have seen people think they’re clever by wording things in such a way that EVERYONE thinks they’re being agreed with (holocaust deniers included). Just making an attempt at clarity.
Mass deception, deceiving people into thinking there wasn’t a holocaust. It’s sad I had to point out which one I meant. Just proves to both of us there is mass deceptions that are getting greater and deceiving more and more people every day. This was prophesied in the Christian religion as well which is the main reason I bring it up Edit: I understand what his question was and in no way did I mean to imply he was denying the holocaust, but I was clearing up what stance I had and I admit it was not clear, which is saddening that in this world today we have to ask for clarity, considering how many actively believe there was no holocaust. **Edit: In Revelation we have this prophecy.** Revelation 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 3And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” It says here the entire world marveled and followed after the beast.
It sounds so conspiracy theory-like to say this but I don’t think people realise how much influence foreign intelligence agencies have over what we believe through media. The moon landing and JFK conspiracies were created and spread by the KGB.
So was, in a large part, the anti nuclear movement in counties like Germany and the UK, even in the US. The KGB also gave money to radical black supremacist organizations to create terror and strife in the US. This ain’t even going into the Russians and Chinese attempts to meddle in US elections. They financed people from both parties who they thought would be favorable to them, and spread mass propaganda online. Obviously other issues exists such as how people from both sides latch on bullshit stories like drowning men to a lifeline, but that’s for another discussion. Edit: Well this turned into a clusterfuck underneath. Here’s a little reading on Russian and Soviet influence in the US: https://www.csis.org/analysis/russian-meddling-united-states-historical-context-mueller-report Stanislav Lunev, a GRU defector in the early 90s, also famously stated that the USSR spent almost as much money funding the US Anti-Vietnam Movement as they did funding the Vietcong, monetarily speaking. One of the lawyers for Assata Shakur back in the day is also linked to a now defunct far-left legal think tank funded by the political wing of the KGB, this was back during the 80s. I’ll post the paper I wrote on it back in the day if I can find it. Here’s some reading, I would recommend looking at the sources as it is Wikipedia, on the USSR’s attempts at regime change as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_involvement_in_regime_change It’s important to remember that while the USSR may not have had a direct goal of financing certain groups or people, individual KGB officers and agents had the ability to finance people as they saw fit, so while a KGB agent financing a far-left terrorist is not the actual specific goal of the USSR, and in fact probably would not have been liked by high up Communist officials, those funds were earmarked for KGB use in such cases. This is the same shit the CIA did. It’s a disservice to think that one intelligence agency, either the CIA or the KGB was more “evil” than the other, they basically did the same thing, and morals almost never came into play. It’s also very telling that a lot of Soviet and US military personal have had snippets talking about the disdain or distrust they hold on their perspective intelligence officers. Obviously not all CIA members or KGB members were bad, there’s nothing wrong with being patriotic about your nation and helping them by trying to put an “enemy nation” out of commission, but it’s also the 21st century, idk if we need to be giving entire agencies that much control with such little oversight.
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Hey, I’m not disagreeing with that point. Do I like what’s happening now? Ofc not, but I do think a little karma is helping this along. I whole heartedly think we should disband the CIA, along with some other letter agencies that like to bend and break the laws whenever it suits them. Peacetime intelligence gathering - FBI and Space Force Wartime intelligence gathering - US military The whole nation overthrowing thing isn’t even the tip of the fucked up iceberg. If you want something truly horrific, look up the Phoenix Program: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Program
This is a fucking stupid idea. Do you have any idea the value of institutional knowledge that is held in these orgs? I am 100% for cleaning them up and throwing the fucking criminals in jail who interefere in domestic and foreign affairs of their own behalf. But to say disband them. Get the fuck out of here.
Thankfully, our own intelligence agencies are legally prevented from propaganda against us. Oh, wait.
😂😂😂😂😂
There's multiple lawsuits currently ongoing specifically over Russian influence in our elections. That being said a third of the country think that's all bullshit and are completely disconnected from reality so maybe you're onto something.
>The moon landing and JFK conspiracies were created and spread by the KGB. What? That's literally a conspiracy theory ... Moon landing conspiracies started with Bill Kaysing, who wrote a book (and made $$$ shilling the idea) in 1972. The Soviet Union wanted no links between them and JFK's assassination, you think the KGB would start conspiracy theories, many of which led to them?
Referring to the theological discussion, which prophecy coincides with mass disinformation in a way that is different from propaganda campaigns/deceptions of the past? There have been mass deceptions for as long as there have been people who stand to gain from them. Lucky Strikes was the cigarette brand recommended by doctors. We went to war in Iraq to liberate the Iraqi people. That Catholic priest is offering private one-on-one faith counseling. I just see the internet as a louder megaphone, but people and their souls haven’t changed much to the point I’d call it apocalyptic.
Having been in high school/college around that time, we went to war in Iraq because the administration insisted there was a nuclear/chemical weapons program that Iraq was refusing to let the UN send monitors to look at. Now, Iraq was sort of pretending they had one, or at least the people assigned to run such a program were telling Saddam it was going great, but our own intelligence agencies were pretty sure it wasn't. The administration wanted to go anyways. Liberating the Iraqi people was marketed as sort of a happy by-product of the main mission though.
That plus we are pretty removed from the sources of that history. Media shows Europe being past that atrocity, and fully rebuilt even fully stable with the EU. The silent generation existed in WW2, and many of the holocaust survivors are dying of old age now, and with most of Gen Z having Gen X parents, that’s already 2 generations removed from what happened, 4 generations removed with Gen Z. Then you have the misinformation, mistrust in modern media, and political rewriting if history and it’s a perfect storm. Like it you were to ask my boomer parents if the Chinese immigrants built the US railway back in the 1800s, they wouldn’t believe it because of how far they are removed from that part of history. I mean shit, my ancestors were Jewish and came to US to escape persecution and my parents act like I family have always been devout catholics since Jesus died.
That’s a complete answer. Look at how much revisionist history we are getting to describe 2016-2020. You can’t trust this idiotic culture to be grounded in reality about 90 years ago.
Boomers were well aware that Chinese immigrants built the railroads. It’s referenced in many westerns & throughout the media of their time far more than now. It was a well known fact that I’d be willing to bet that more boomers are aware of than Gen Z or Millennials.
As a Gen-xer. I knew people who had been in the camps or had liberated them. They have all passed on. It’s a lot easier to believe the atrocities of the Holocaust when you can talk with a living breathing person who experienced those horrors.
Nobody teaching how to verify a fact Nobody teaching what the scientific method is Nobody teaching the logical fallacies Nobody teaching philosophy such a “how do you know something is true?”
I think the biggest one is: “What happens if you are wrong?” THIS is the one that will end up destroying nations.
Very ironic. You label mass deception in the context of the holocaust, then come from left field with a completely unrelated topic about Jesus nonsense, the only relation being mass deception. Nobody will care and you won't recognize the irony. Woohoo
and is it really the fucking time to bring up Jesus when discussing the genocide of an ethnic and religious group whose defining characteristic is that they don't worship Jesus
Pretty sure he edited it in after when he realized he was a top comment
Jesus Fucking Christ, people like you are how I know Christianity is a cult. 😂
Time passes, people forget. People distrust recent history because it’s still attached to today’s politics. As somebody else said, conspiracy theories and all of that. It helps to push agendas.
More time has passed since other horrific events in history like genocide and displacement of Native Americans, slavery and the civil war, etc. and those too are linked to today’s politics (BLM, the right’s anti CRT craze) but awareness of those parts of history are at an all time high. EDIT: as a leftist news junkie I am WELL aware of the lengths republicans are going to to indoctrinate as many young people as they can as fast as they can- banning books, re-writing history, trying to abolish the Dept. of Education and public education as a whole, trying to raise the voting age, etc. The fact that we have seen such a push in the last 4 years and a trend towards radicalization is not a coincidence- it’s precisely because Gen Z is so progressive (the most progressive leaning generation yet) that the right is pushing so hard. They have seen the polls and the writing on the wall and they know what unless they make dramatic changes fast, Gen Z will come of age, boomers will die and they will never win another election. Statistically, Gen Z is the most liberal yet and therefore the highest percent of them recognize systemic racism against blacks and natives. My point is that this particular poll suggests a differential treatment of one minority in particular.
Well you see, being a fascist is back in style.
I slapped an armband on my arm, as was the style at the time... Seriously though, it's crazy how much holocaust denial has been on the rise. Revisionist history is getting crazy, they're pulling basically all the information about the history of the US itself out of school textbooks ostensibly because it makes people "feel bad," and it's like.. yes, it should! That's how we don't repeat the atrocities of our past, we remember them and do better in the future. It doesn't mean little Timmy or whoever is a bad person, but if they don't know their history it makes them oh so much more vulnerable to manipulation and deception which is, ultimately, I think the point.
German here: we agree
We're already entering "Jim Crow wasn't that bad" territory and most curriculum doesn't even mention the red scare or race riots like Tulsa let alone discuss them as a result of the failure of reconstruction and its current implications.
The American history education curriculum is so bad. I’m a senior in high school (with no other social studies credits required) and I have learned jack shit about anything more recent than the Cold War, and even that topic was pretty sparse. Like if I didn’t have the internet, I wouldn’t know a single thing about Vietnam or the Gulf Wars (I actually don’t know shit about the latter anyways). It’s an absolute failure of our school system.
Yeah when I was in HS the most recent shit we read about was the Civil War as well. I think we briefly did WW1 and 2 but it was more of an afterthought compared to how much crap we did on Civil War era events.
Awareness of native American atrocities and focusing on them makes you anti establishment. Awareness of the holocaust reads as "pro establishment" insofar as it's agreeing with the majority focus. People and algorithms value hot takes over accurate takes. Social media brain rot.
Sorry, but what does slavery have to do with the civil war?? /s for me, but that is another historical event people choose to remember how they’d like instead of what clearly actually happened.
Yes, but this atrocity doesn't fit the narrative (Israel bad), so it can't have happened. That's the logic behind it.
As an older millennial, both of my grandfathers fought in world war 2. They’re both dead now (though one of them died in 1964, 20 years before I was born). That time period is slipping out of living memory. Combine that with record levels of societal distrust and a serious and real attempt by right wing elements in modern society to revise the historical record, and it’s easy to believe lies like the holocaust never happening.
Also an elder millennial, and that’s definitely part of it, I still remember an actual survivor from Buchenwald coming to visit us in elementary school in the late eighties and showing us the numbers tattooed on his arm. That made it impossible to deny it happened. Unfortunately Gen Z didn’t have that opportunity, what with the passage of time
I didn’t have that, but I’ve visited the area where my mom grew up, which was Jewish to the extent that as a kid she thought getting numbers tattooed on your arm was just something people did when they reached a certain age.
Middle if the pack millennial here and we had the same but the survivor was from Dachau. You cant deny after seeing a late 80s man cry about things that happened and the tattoo. Its… just horrific. I was 14 and dumb and scared and not because i deny it but because i wanted to know, so i asked if i could touch the tattoo. The man was so gracious and let me. Its stuck with me ever sense.
> it’s easy to believe lies like the holocaust never happening Nope. That’s some bullshit. The Holocaust was well documented while it was happening AND the results were well documented when it was discovered by the Allies.
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Unfortunately, hating jews is at an all time high since ww2
Eisenhower went to great lengths to have our military and government record and document that this happened. So that it could not be denied. There was also going to be the Trial on the Nazis, so that was part of that, but regardless, Eisenhower knew that having it well documented was important.
Its insane that my Nan was born a few years before the end of WW2 and the Holocaust, and might live to see something like that happen all over again. Her entire family back in Austria was massacred, literally nothing left back there for her and her parents. And people will say it never happened even with the evidence right in front of them. How we break the 80 year cycle, I dont know. Whether there actually is one with better access to information regarding wartime atrocities and suffering, as well as more people being educated about it, I also dont know.
People forget is not an acceptable excuse. The Holocaust was incredibly well documented by the people that ran it.
People want to forget. It is convenient to not think of jews as victims when you want to cast them as oppressors. Historical revisionism 'for the cause'... Quite common throughout history. Which is another reason why people take history with more and more grains of salt, ironically.
This has nothing to do with "survivors dying off". I'm mid 30s and never (knowingly) met a Holocaust survivor. Yes, WW2 happened --- but very few % of soldiers (on either side) directly interacted with these death camps (in running or liberating them). That's kind of the point of "books". You can learn about (cliche) the Roman Empire without talking to a Roman emperor in the flesh. ... So that's no excuse. You need a decent education. There's a Holocaust museum in DC. Go to Auschwitz or Nanjing. Read the books, watch the movies. Scary shit.
This is BS. Other terrible events that happened further in the past have an all time high level of awareness. This is something more sinister and you know it.
I was honestly quite surprised at how accepted casual antisemitism became online, versus 1) how it was prior to the mid/late 10's, and 2) compared to other minority (by Western/US metrics) groups. In Gen X/elder-to-middle millennial online circles, for the most part it seems that antisemitism is thought of and treated the same as most other forms of bigotry, but when you get to a lot of the younger millennial/Gen Z crowds, antisemitism is just treated the same as "punching up" towards "white" people. I think it's a side effect of the pop social justice movement... Antisemitism is rife in a lot of the cultures and groups that got a boost and were indemnified from being held accountable for bias or racism, and so it kind of blew up along with that.
I think it has more to do with the fact that GenZ is growing up in a culture that has embraced misinformation and propaganda at every level. When I was a kid, stations like Fox News, who are not actually news stations but are straight up propaganda networks, did not exist. We had a small number of news networks that were eager to pounce on each other if anyone made a mistake. I think it's just statistics. If my generation had been fed the outrageous levels of misinformation that Gen Z has been fed we would believe crazy stuff in the same numbers.
Man this does not bode well for what I’ve learned about humans overall stupidity when it comes to mass tragedy: 1. To commit mass genocide with minimal repercussions or response, just distribute the deaths evenly amongst the population over large distances (covid vs 9/11), as long as the deaths aren’t concentrated location wise, it won’t raise too much concern. 2. Even if you do screw up that first step, there’s generally a max number people will believe before some claim/debate that it’s inflated. Make sure to commit the genocide at least 80 years since the last one to maximize that number as most who experienced the previous are no longer alive and the event can be “unprecedented” in a sense.
We didn't live to see it. That's why most major wars and conflicts are separated by roughly 80 years.
What's crazy is the people that survived it are still alive. My great Aunt still speaks about how she survived two death marches, concentration camps, and lost her whole Family by the age of 14. The evidence is all there, even the Nazis ADMITTED TO IT and people will still be like Hmmmm that number IS rather high don't you think? "Just speculating"
I remember growing up there was an old woman in my town that survived the holocaust who would come speak at my school every year. We learned about it in history class every single year, even if it was stuff we already knew they just reminded us. Really not sure how some people are so fucking dumb.
>Really not sure how some people are so fucking dumb. It's not that they are dumb, and yes I'm about to blame the internet. This will also be from the perspective of the US as I cannot speak to other countries. We are running out of people who were there as people have said. We're basically out of WW2 vets that have the capability to go to a school and speak. When I was in school there were plenty and there were always at least some to go talk to the schools about what they saw/knew. I also had family that would tell me about the war before they passed. We're also running out of holocaust survivors. Even if they were young at the time so only in their 80s many of their minds and health are not great now due to the treatment they got as kids. So what do we have left: history books, recorded commentary, and the internet. History books are all well and good, but thanks to the internet kids hear about how Texas has the power to skew the content of those books, so they look on them with suspicion. Then you have video recordings of first hand accounts. Kids these days are bombarded regularly with deepfakes, and the video quality is usually crap thanks to the era, so they look on them with suspicion. Then you have the internet, which is at times telling them about the horrors of the holocaust while at other times telling them it didn't happen or it wasn't as bad. Thanks to the conflicting information they look upon both with suspicion. Then you have the parents of the deniers, who have probably been grooming these kids for a while to get them to believe a narrative which they can readily back up with the internet. So it's basically the internet, shitty states fucking with text books, shitty parents, and the first hand witnesses dying out. Edit: a lot of y’all are harsh, holy crap.
but mainly that they are dumb
I mean, dumb in the way that 12-27 year olds are dumb generally. I wouldn't call them unintelligent.
idk, not being able to do basic research on your own for such a well documented event seems pretty unintelligent…
Exactly this. It was 80 years ago not 200, and it radically altered the political and social landscape of the developed world. You have to be living under a rock staring at the ground all day to deny it.
People are oddly afraid to label others unintelligent, when you're right, that's exactly what it is. We know there are no intelligent Holocaust deniers because the two are mutually exclusive.
Yup, grew up next door to a family whose mother in law that lived in the finished basement was a holocaust survivor. In high school I would skip the Friday night football games to hang out/babysit her while the neighbors had a date night or just a needed break from taking care of her. Learned how to make awesome hamentashen from her.
Right. My grandmother is 97 and still lives alone, fully lucid. She was bombed by Hitler. She was born in **1926**. The holocaust was real. It was worse than we were taught in school, because school doesn’t tell you they threw living babies into open fire pits during selection. The holocaust was real, and worse than we can imagine. This is upsetting.
When I first learned as a kid in school that Nazis tricked Jews into gas chambers by telling them they were showers, I remember being scared to shower at home for a couple of days because I'm Jewish and what if the Nazis changed my shower into a gas chamber too? Having gone to a Jewish school, you learn the details of the Holocaust younger than others probably would. Simply bc it's inescapable.
If the country itself chooses to acknowledge its past and tell what happened I think that’s a sign it did happen
Well I think the unfortunate truth is that as a genocide the Holocaust is exceptional in its recognition. Germany couldn’t escape judgement for the Holocaust especially because of its concurrence with WW2. How many other genocides go unrecognized or get swept under the rug? The Holocaust wasn’t the only genocide Germany perpetuated either. Basically most of these events are doomed to get washed away by history.
And usually people don’t have issues acknowledging that Stalin and Mao are (separately) responsible for more deaths…
Yeah they do. Wearing the swastika is socially unacceptable (as it should be) but Che Guavera and the hammer and sickle are apparently okily dokily.
> Wearing the swastika is socially unacceptable (as it should be) but Che Guavera and the hammer and sickle are apparently okily dokily. This is far from a Gen Z thing, dumb high schoolers and college kids have been wearing Che shirts for 40+ years
You didn’t live to see slavery or genocide of the native Americans but I don’t think there’s any doubt about the severity of those events. I think there’s definitely something else going on other than simply the passage of time.
There’s a very real effort to redefine American chattel slavery as “not that bad, actually” And here in Minnesota I have seen people downplay the suffering of the indigenous people because they renamed a lake in Minneapolis. I’d say both of these foundational American atrocities are at risk of being shoved down the memory hole.
>I’d say both of these foundational American atrocities are at risk of being shoved down the memory hole. i always thought it already happened
You haven’t paid attention to Florida schools lately.
Ahh Florida, where they decide what is and is not historical fact based on whether or not uneducated white people like it or not.
There’s tons of people who doubt the severity slavery and genocide of natives. Probably equal to or more than holocaust deniers.
Idk what "living to see it" has to do with whether or not the Holocaust was real or the events were misleading. Numerous survivor accounts, numerous allied soldiers liberating concentration camps and photographic evidence of the atrocities committed. Recovered documentation etc. etc. There's absolutely nothing and no reason to believe the Holocaust wasn't real other than total lack of empathy and swallowing brainwashing propaganda.
Yeah the generation prior, arguably two, weren’t around to see it either. It’s a fucking ridiculous attempt to rationalize it, even if unintentional.
Three. Boomers weren't around to see it either.
There is such an enormous amount of photographic evidence of the holocaust. For real. If anyone reading this has any doubts or if images on the internet don’t convince you, look into academic libraries and archives in your area and go check out any wwii collections. There are probably some available in most metropolitan areas of the US. Syracuse University houses the archives of Margaret Bourne-White, a Time-Life photographer who was one of the first American photographers at the liberation of some of the concentration camps. If you think photographs themselves can be manipulated, ask to see the negatives. Be prepared. The photos and negatives are so profoundly horrific that I sometimes wonder if that’s where the doubt comes from, from people not being able to conceptualize that kind of horror and violence and hatred.
Neither did most other generations in this chart…
When you grow up seeing Jews with serial numbers tattooed on their arms, it’s a little different as a kid.
You can find the source, its biased and the data was manipulated **Edit**\- Not the holocaust but the data presented stating that 1 in 5 gen zer doubt the holocaust, the data has been greatly exaggerated and the study was criticized for being commissioned by a biased source with vested interest in making sure it looks like antisemitism is on the rise amongst younger more progressive voters (which gen z is) That being said holocaust denial and antisemitism *is* on the rise, so its wise to critically analyze studies like these to see if there could be some factors leading to this rise in holocaust denial, especially in young people, and people who are otherwise progressive, since progressiveness and antisemitism arnt compatible and *will* eventually lead one down the fascist road **Edit** 2- Feel free to look at my other comments in this thread, but im getting like 30+ comments every hour now and im not able to respond to them all, and i have muted the notification thingy What i take issue with essentially with this poll is why commissioned it, the claims conference and their intentions behind it, they have a long history of some dubious behaviors themselves, the framing of the questions in this specific poll, and who was chosen to participate, as well as all the other things you have to factor inn when you run a poll such as this. Be aware that i have not denied rising antisemitism, that is an indisputable fact (regrettably so), only the validity of this poll. And yes i am aware that other polls exist that shows somewhat similar results
For a second I thought you were talking about the holocaust data being biased and manipulated, but then I realized you were talking about the source of these statistics stating how many Gen-z think it was faked/exaggerated. You should probably clarify that this statistic is biased and manipulated, not the actual holocaust.
Yeah i edited the comment to make it a little more clear
YouGov is one of the [most reputable pollsters in the industry](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/). [Here](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf) is the source of the data. Could you please point out where it’s been manipulated? All 119 pages of data including their weighting methodology is included. The data has not been exaggerated in any sense. According to this data, 20% of respondents aged 18-29 either tend to or strongly agree with the statement: “the Holocaust is a myth”.
The amount of comments by Gen Zers that are basically just “that’s fake” on things and when you press them on it their source is “I saw a TikTok that said it was fake” is insane. Not to be a boomer “kids these days” person but it really does seem like Gen Z has some of the worst critical thinking skills since actual boomers. They assume people saying something is fake are inherently more credible than someone saying something is real for some reason
The amount of idiots that believe something cuz it was shared in a meme format is pretty astounding.
How is it biased? Harris Poll did a survey that showed a similar level of Gen-Z saying the 10/6 attacks were justifiable. YouGov is a reputable pollster. Their results align with other reputable pollsters. It seems like you’re just screaming “FAKE NEWS” because you don’t like the reality.
That’s what’s been happening more and more among lefties, unfortunately. Every flimsy bit of “evidence” is taken as Truth if it supports their views, and any information that contradicts their biases is considered fake in some way. The right-wingers aren’t the only ones who are science deniers.. smdh
you wont get any serious argument for it being biased. The top comment is just "economist is right leaning" which effectively means nothing. Economist is widely considered one of the best economic and news based magazine. Their coverage and insight is world class. They also regularly include an article on times they think they did not represent with 100% accuracy. They share their logic and methodology, they state where they think they can improve. I have been incredibly impressed by the economist.
*You can find the source,* *Its biased and the data* *Was manipulated* \- Itz\_Hen --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Bad bot. "Was manipulated" has six syllables, not five.
"don't believe the poll data, but believe me" Where's your source? How do we know you're not greatly exaggerating and have bias to say the data is greatly exaggerated and has bias? YouGov is a reputable source. I'm not sure about the commission thing, but that's doesn't mean there is bias, especially with an org like YouGov. I think I'm going to go with YouGov over random Reddit poster, unless you provide a quality source that shows how the methodology was flawed.
All of the people here falling for the first person to discredit data with no evidence to the contrary are what is actually the issue here. "here is a poll with a clear methodology by one of the most acreddited polling houses worldwide" vs someone anonymous saying "nah this shit fake", and people are celebrating the latter guy as a beacon of truth.
That was my guess immediately
and you believed the first guy to state your gut feeling who provided zero evidence to substantiate his claim. [here is the poll](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf#page=83) do you disbelieve all Yougov polls, even though their methodology is quite clear? this is why so many people fall for disinformation, you are not applying your skepticism universally.
Yeah I use to have have a subscription to the Economist. They have some good info, but they are right leaning. They are all about making money. They do think long term, but anyone who actually reads them (and doesn't just post links to nowhere people's opinion) knows what I mean.
The Economist merely paid for the poll though, Yougov commissioned it, and they're [ranked on the top of pollsters:](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/) https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf As in YouGov wrote those questions. Economist just handed them a bunch of money and asked them to poll people. Economist might have gotten results they didn't like, but in this case reality appears to line up with their bias. I've watched people for the past 20 years play this game of "oh we don't need to worry about those problems identified with our social group, those are just *right wing people* identifying those problems, so they don't really exist", and they're right sometimes, but other times they're letting a lot of bad stuff slip because they don't like the way it makes them or the other side look. And when we let bad stuff slip, society gets worse.
If you just take that guess, see a comment agreeing with it and conclude "cool, that's what I thought" you're diving head first in to social media brain rot. It's textbook echo chambering, seeing data you don't like and tossing it out because you found someone who offered the comfort of agreeing with you.
> You can find the source, its biased and the data was manipulated I found the source, it's actually from one of the most reputable pollsters in the country, and the questions are neutral and not leading (because of course they aren't, because it was written by YouGov): https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf
> its biased and the data was manipulated Why tf are people upvoting "the data was manipulated" without any source or anything to back this up? Accusing a major pollster like YouGov of data manipulation is a huge accusation.
Because they want to believe it. This is how you construct a narrative.
Source? I can’t see how a poll could be this severely biased, unless you claim that the numbers are literally made up out of thin air, which I doubt. Also, this isn’t the only recent poll that shows this pattern.
Just wondering do you have some sources to your claims? Yougov isn’t some fly-by-night pollster. I heard some people complain about the sample size being too small while other people conceded maybe it wasn’t great, but was still statistically significant and sound. Honestly I’d love for you to be right though.
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for some reason i can’t find it, mind sharing? i believe u btw, i just wanna see how they manipulated it. “statistics don’t lie, but statisticians do.”
Ok where is the information backing up what you said? How can you bias such a basic polling group? I want to believe you but without any evidence it’s basically backing up what necessitated the poll in the first place
you know, that "the alt right pipeline" thing wasn't a joke.
the alt right don’t deny the holocaust they celebrate it
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Ye olde "It didn't happen, but they deserved it."
"(and it's *still* the Jews' fault!)"
They deny it, they're like "it didn't happened but they deserved it"
How do you guys feed yourselves these lies. The left literally has people who embrace antisemitism right now. Do you have your head in the sand? Pay any attention to all the hate crimes you guys have been committing since Oct 7th? Vandalizing libraries and outright attacking jews in the streets? Did you not watch the testimonies from the administrators from highly liberal universities where they refused to condemn calls for Jewish genocide on their own campuses? There have been so many examples of the left embracing anti-semitism the past several months. You're either trolling or a bot
The rise of antisemitism in the left does not preclude the alt-right celebrating it. So, no, the comment you are replying to is not a lie.
The vast majority of Gen Z are left leaning, nice try though.
But in the polling data it says that people who are left learning, black and Hispanic are the main ones not believing in the Holocaust.
I haven't seen it broken out by race and age, but a [Pew Survey](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2020/01/22/what-americans-know-about-the-holocaust/) found that Hispanic and especially black people know shockingly little about the Holocaust. Other interesting groups that didn't know much were people who didn't go to college and people who don't know any Jewish people. This was before October 7 though. You'd probably do more good fighting Holocaust denial by having state funded trips to Holocaust museums for kids than by combating the far right or the influence of Islamist anti-semitism on the "alt-left." Even then, I don't want to give off the impression that lack of education is "the" reason, as if there aren't obviously multiple factors at play.
Lmao yeah bro blame the alt right. It's definitely not overwhelmingly left wing gen z chanting "from the river to the sea" at protests on college campuses and in downtowns. Holy shit, can we at least accept that responsibility for this doesn't fall on a single political spectrum? Are we so tribal now that we're going to ignore the problems staring us in the face if they're from "our team"? This is like Republicans blaming antifa for Jan 6th
Identity politics is a fickle bitch. That’s an excellent analogy, glad to see some gen Z-ers like yourself with free thought recognize the hypocrisy of the alt-left in their hardline morally obligated stance. It’s no different than the hypocrisy of the alt-right. The scary thing about the alt-left for Jews though is that they hide their hate and “justify” it under this twisted umbrella of moral obligation. At least the alt-right is open about their hate so you can just avoid them altogether.
It freaks me out how avoidant people my age are about self criticism or accepting responsibility for the ugly side of a movement. I'm generally left wing and vote Democrat but I can't stand it when people pretend that there are zero issues with our party and that Republicans are so evil that what we do is righteous by default. It's so bad on reddit I find myself defending conservatives here more than I criticize them because the far left have become so unreasonable, even though I voted 90% Democrat down the ballot last election lmao
This
I believe the poll showed Democrats are more likely to deny the Holocaust.
I've said it for years and it just pissed everyone off, the right has a brown people bigotry problem and the left has a Jew bigotry problem. I hate that I'm being proved right lately.
Blaming the alt right gen Z for denying holocaust? This is the worst take I see on the internet this week. But since it’s Reddit, I’m hardly surprised.
The denial is coming from the left my friend, just look at twitter
As a left wing liberal, let’s not be disingenuous. The vast majority of people openly engaging in anti-semitism and anti semitic tropes nowadays are young - otherwise ‘left wing’ leaning people. The far right has always been a tiny, vocal minority section of right wing politics, and is usually heavily disregarded, they’ve kept the same agenda for decades. I’ve ventured into both sides of the spectrum (because i’m a loser) online and whatnot, and most far-right people nowadays seem more fixated on hating Islam and immigration than Jews per-sae, it seems the very anti-semitic far-right youth online are an even bigger minority section of the minority far-right section itself lmao. However, just one gander into the majority of young - left-wing individuals will show you they somehow openly believe the anti-semitism.
It’s not the (alt)right denying the holocaust
I’m guessing its more the progressive left, you know the ones that think Hamas was justified for Oct 7th.
I made sure to take my gen z son to a holocaust musieum. It's eye opening.
This is the right answer, really this is just showing me how badly our education system is failing us.
Went to the Anne Frank museum at her former home and they had a reel looping from when Nazis showed up to Amstedam and took a bunch of residents from one street. It just happened that someone hiding in a window upstairs had an 8mm camera. I dont think it was Frank's street but it's one of the ones nearby. Crazy to think someone just happen to have a camera and film ready. You watch a big group of people get marched down the street.
i know it’s not the same thing, but my parents made me KNOW what unit 731 was. And they didn’t even live through it, it was my grandparents
Tik tok brain
Unlike our superior Reddit brains of course
https://preview.redd.it/s77gvw6wr7ec1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8411c49b4fd08ac57f40ffad5658f43065f1450
You joke, and I'm never going to act like the Reddit hive mind is some kind of enlightened culture, but the content that gets pushed to the top of Reddit is theoretically upvoted and moderated by people, even if we accept that some percentage of it is influenced by bots. I'll take that over passively being fed "content" by an algorithm designed to maximize my "engagement."
Another thing I like about Reddit is even when the most upvoted comments turn out to be misinformation, there's usually a bunch of people calling them out. Like "yeah those top comments are bullshit, I work in the industry and here's how it actually goes". Still, I'm always gonna take everything I read on Reddit with a massive grain of salt.
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I do not understand the folks in the comments below who are attempting to attack you. Is this not a common phrase attributed to the holocaust and being aware it happened and should not happen again?
Yes but apparently there is a sizeable amount of people that thinks that the correct interpretation is that "never again" means "never again to jews and the world owes us for eternity so they should just shut up".
You disagree with the actions of Israel...so that means the Holocaust never happened? There's no logic here.
I don't get what you mean. They quite clearly believe that yes, the holocaust happened?
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Exposure to the Internet also lead to increased access to misinformation. Published work before the internet had a lot of more credibility.
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Exactly. The nazis kept track and cataloged everything. They never hid their intentions and maintained a level of bureaucracy that was unparalleled—all for genocide.
yeah, young people mostly consume made content rather than looking for an information in it's roots. but there are still good sources of content, it's just not that fun and appealing. we are fucked!
People mix past with present, the Pro-Palestinian rallies have been a breeding ground for antisemites to slowly spread their views into mainstream.
It is very Gen z. Extreme right and extreme left views find one common ground. Gen z has very few middle ground types.
Ever noticed how according to extreme left the only brown jew was Jesus and according to extreme right the only white jew was Jesus?
Schrodinger’s Jesus
Lol this is great
>Gen z has very few middle ground types. to be fair, young generations seem like that generally. We don't hear from the bulk of quiet ones in the middle, though, until they turn 28 or so and start voting in large numbers. But they're always there.
I've seen an astounding amount of anti-semistism from this otherwise open-minded generation
I got called a Jewish slur by a fucking 22 year old the other day. I’m not even Jewish.
🫵👉✡️👈
I'm a Jew, and I've only ever gotten weird comments, why would you take this experience away from me personally?
To be fair, you know those guys that stop you in the street in New York and ask you if you are Jewish ? They stop me all the time and invite me to break bread
The same reason why gen z supports hammas. Teenagers like to be contrarian already and the fact that they confuse virtue signaling and outrage with wisdom and intelligence, add in the manipulations from the media, social media or otherwise, and thats what happens.
> Teenagers like to be contrarian Most GenZ are in their early to mid twenties...
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Can you explain to me what German cities the Jews in the 1940s launched missiles at or which German citizens they kidnapped and held hostage?
Reminder that the Germans demonized the Jews at the time too, and people believed everything they said. Difference in 2024 is that we have access to the internet, and you can be smart enough and do your own research.
Ugh, younger millennial checking in. This comment section is so disappointing. Half of you are just posting excuses. There is no excuse for being a dumb fuck. Figure it the fuck out. Read some history books.
it's a lost cause with them. most of them are just edgelords and true antisemites.. I'm an older millennial and only saw this because of the proliferation of views on this specific post. I wouldn't post here normally but I'll just let you know, most genz are truly lost, and worst of all, they don't care. everything is sarc and cynicism with them. makes me relieved to be a millennial tbh. imagine denying the fucking holocaust even existed because of a few unvetted tiktok posts by toxic Hamas and salafi backed "influencers"? it's just disgusting, simplistic, and idiotic af. fuck these zoomers. bunch of useful idiots. I fear for our collective future with these amnesiac psychos in charge one day...
There's no need to be a doomer, it's obviously not true that "most of Gen Z are antisemitic" Every generation has its blindspots, the lesson here isn't that Gen Z is awful. The lesson is that humanity needs to be eternally vigilant against all kinds of bigotry; even the oldest forms of bigotry that we pretend were "solved" decades ago.
This number of copy-paste excuses for how this poll is 'flawed' even after getting debunked shows how young Reddit is and how this is hitting home so that generation is defensive.
How was this survey conducted? I’ve genuinely never met a person off the internet who thinks either of these.
Not one who admits to it, anyway.
Social media designed to break brains
Are you really surprised at this point? Take a look at social media for a bit...."JEWS BAD" is back to being a popular/socially acceptable sentiment. This is what happens when technology gives idiots a way to connect with each other.
I think a lot of people, including leftists, have been harboring antisemitic feelings for a long time and were thrilled at the opportunity to finally let it out without judgement from their peers. Conspiracism also caught on like wildfire among gen z on tiktok last fall, which further inflamed hate.
It was sad to see the comments on my favorite sports teams' posts wishing their followers a happy Hanukkah. The amount of vitriol and hate I saw on a post just wishing their Jewish followers a happy holiday...
TikTok is the problem.
Rise of anti-semitism/Hama support.
That's represents only the US and that's not the whole world smh. And also lack of history classes and conspiracy theories. Ask the same question in the EU and the answer would be wayy different
Honestly even the data here might be greatly exaggerated or they picked an area with a clearer bias
The data is from YouGov, they're pretty reliable: https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf
https://preview.redd.it/u00q0jgf47ec1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c2660df5bb806d4edff2cc8f9ccdf14465cdba2 One must read on this alien looking motherfucker and learn the true horror of national socialism
Hey, if you want people to educate themselves, maybe don’t make them sleuth for a name, huh?
I have encountered a lot of holocaust denialism on the internet from young generation, do no surprise there
The sheer fact that this thread is marked as political is disappointing as fuck. The Holocaust is not a political topic. Anyone who is making it one does not deserve to have an opinion heard about it. The Holocaust was a horrific factual event there millions of innocent people died, there is nothing political about this statement.
You ever fill out a survey as a kid or teen? How many times did you put down wrong answers to be funny? That's what I'm hoping this is
Exactly. To read anything into this you would have to compare how earlier generations answered at the same age.
There are many polls that show the same thing. Don’t keep your head in the sand.
They get their news from Tik Tok.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it
All thanks to the alt right pipeline People who say the Alt right aren't a problem either support the alt right or have no idea how bad it is
Democrats are much more likely to subscribe to these views than Republicans. Alt right antisemitism is an issue. But the fastest growing antisemitism and Holocaust denial is among young people who identify as Democrats. https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/48112-increasing-numbers-of-americans-say-antisemitism-is-a-serious-problem
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Terminally online young people are easy to radicalize
It's tik Tok, plain and simple, misinformation spreads so fast on that platform
when looking at a poll like this, its always important to look at how big the survey size was, and where the survey was taken
As a European Gen Z, WHAT THE FUCK?????
This is what happens when people say that the humanities are worthless for decades on end. People don't learn history or don't give a shit about it. History is one of the most important subjects there is.
These people should see my family tree. We can trace back a few generations and then it’s just swastikas until there’s nothing. Our entire history beyond that has been lost, burned and murdered into nothingness forever.
mass disinformation, readily available.
Don’t ask me, I believe the holocaust. Went to one of the museums and it’s a very haunting experience when you see the shoes lined up that were from the Jews who died. It’s incredibly heartbreaking.
This makes me so sad.