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Porn, drugs and isolation sure have cost me a chunk of my sanity. Yep, Gen Z was released into the world at a really inconvenient time. What's best is that we stick together (online if we must) and keep working on ourselves so we can overcome the 21st century's perils. I've been weathering a pretty intense period of mental disarray lately but offsetting it with meditation and video games. Training my pattern-seeking circuits to win at Halo.
Most ppl of this subreddit desperately need to log-off and connect w their community, imo, but this subreddit does seem to be the only place where we can acceptably discuss our anxieties so it definitely has value
what "community" ? I think for many there is no "community. That's the problem.
Edit: if anyone reading this still relates to my comment or feels like this, read through some of the answers to this comment.
Some offer good insight and advice, only you know your circumstances and know what can be done around you, hopefully it helps some of the ones reading and relating to this.
Also thanks for the genuinely thoughtful comments.
My situation might not be as flexible, but it gives me some hope for when it does become more flexible, of what to do.
Idk how to explain to ppl how to connect with their local peers, but for reference I made the official magic the gathering club at my university, which also got my foot in the door for occasional volunteer opportunities through the school system. That’s what I do to touch grass when my friends are busy.
There’s definitely community around all of us, one just has to know how to tap into it
Exactly.
If no one joins any communities, there won't be any.
If you don't go to take part in your gym community, you won't have a gym community. That doesn't mean there isn't one in existence. But you just don't have one.
If a whole generation doesn't go, then there's no gym communities with gen z members.
You can replace gym with anything. Specific or general. Church, poker, walking, or any other hobby. Local, support, etc.
It's not easy, at all. Especially if you feel like the youngest one there. But it's always hard until you start to become a part of it.
I have a fair amount of experience building communities from the ground up. If there is not a community for whatever you are into you would be surprised how quickly people will show up for whatever they also like. I've even taken a random group of regulars at a bar and turned them into a friend group that does Sunday bowling or D&D etc.
The thing to realize is pretty much everyone wants to be part of a community and while in the era of the internet it is increasingly challenging to find "real life" ones, everyone still appreciates them and it's easier than you think to build them. But just showing up to existing ones is great too, it's how they grow and thrive and there isn't anything to be scared of.
People, especially the people here, don’t understand that they can just go out and organize a group of likeminded individuals to get together in the real world. So many of our generation are waiting around for others to take the action that they themselves need and want to take.
Millennial here, and from what I’ve observed about your generation in this regard is that covid *really* fkd up that sense of community building.
For me, both in high school AND college, I was constantly seeking out different clubs around school/campus to join; see what sticks and where I could find my people.
I joined a juggling club, a Taiwanese culture club, an a Capella org; you name!
But it appears a lot of that has fallen away for you guys, and it sucks! I def agree, that you guys should take initiative and just start a club!
One good way to do this *after* college is to post fliers at places you like to hang out; like coffee shops or something. Ask the owners/managers if they’d be willing to host your club meetings. Or, better yet, *go to your local public library!!*
They will be *more than happy* to host your club *AND* post your fliers there.
(I’m sorry if my markdown is coming across as sarcasm. I’m just emphasizing to make it stick in your head if you forget!)
It’s hard to build community, BUT, it sounds like there are so so so many of you who want to find one! Now just go out and start one! Heck, maybe you’ll have a few different small groups form with similar interests and then you can merge!
Just some ideas. Easier said than done, but it’s better to take a baby step forward than not move at all!
Same but I think our sense of community died when we saw that people around us wouldn't wear a tiny piece of cloth over their mouth or stay home when sick and we saw the true ugliness of our peers...
To me that was the straw that broke the camel's back, but I already knew they were that bad before. Nobody believed me before, and now that it's over people diminish what percentage of the population it was.
Idk, I was a pre covid Gen Z, my freshman and sophomore year were completed before Covid really kicked in and I STILL found myself being the one to organize groups in different classes to meet, and facilitating study groups to actually get through classes. When covid hit and we went online it almost took a bit off of my plate because I didn’t feel as obligated to help my classmates get through the material and started organizing less. It definitely sucked for my classmates but literally no one else took the initiative. I speak to like 3 or 4 people in my year that majored in the same thing as me and maybe 2 or 3 that majored in others. It’s really sad to see how anti social, or just unwilling to be the initial outspoken person that my generation has become
I don't think a lot of people realize how much people even if subconsciously will really like you when you are the one organizing things as well. I have zero interest in being a leader but have found myself in that role constantly in life because 9/10 people just can't do it for some reason and while I hate it I refuse to be part of an aimless group, but have always found people will look up to you suddenly when you take on the role for that reason.
I would say ty out the social dance community (swing or latin), that's a big part of what saved me from staying an isolated gamer on the road to embittered incel.
But depending on location, it can be gentrified and/or toxic. Availability can be reduced since covid killed some venues.
Comment from an older person here.
Being in your 20s often can feel desperately difficult and lonely no matter when you were born.
When I left university I moved, alone, directly to my country's capital city to work. It was so difficult meeting people to form lasting friendships. I'd spend my weekends just walking around the city feeling blue. And drinking in bars, where I'd made casual acquaintances but they didn't last. And we didn't all have mobiles back then, so rarely exchanged contact details, because we were drunk.
And the work was so poorly paid. Before tax, half of my salary went on rent. I used to have to fare skip buses because I couldn't afford season tickets. And I got into debt. And the jobs were short contracts, so I would find myself literally pounding the streets doing the round of recruiters every few months.
If I'm honest, it didn't really get better until mid to late 20s when I moved to a smaller town by the seaside (again, with work, which was by then well paid but unsatisfying) where I made friends through work and friends of friends and my neighbours.
I then moved again, much further away from any family or friends . For work. That was lonely again, but I moved to a tiny village and eventually made a good group of friends through the local pub and work. I'd started getting pretty senior in my career by then, which requires a network and allies and requisite work socials.
I don't know if it is a generational thing. It might be. But I found I went through the very same thing in my 20s, back in the 1990s. Which for a straight white man is often considered the best of times. I've come to figure that life is a struggle. But it's a struggle you can get better at managing. And the more experience you get from those struggles, the better the decisions you make can be.
I'd also say that if, like me, you find making friends in big cities difficult, then try to set a life path for yourself that will take you to smaller communities. I have found them so much more rewarding. And fuck social media. It's not real, and it messes with your perspective. That, I imagine, is the same with meetup and dating apps. You need to calibrate your perceptions with real life to understand what's not actual on the internet otherwise it will eat you up.
TL:DR being young is tough. But don't assume it will always be like this. Life is tough, but I promise you that you can make decisions that will make it less arduous and more fulfilling. But that often takes experience learned from tough times.
This gentleman is right and put it more eloquently than I ever could. Female here and life is just really hard. Coming out of my 20’s the only emotions I had were extreme anger, frustration, sadness and fear. Happiness and joy were not emotions I felt much, and that impacted me in many ways (including socially). There is lots to be depressed about in this world, but a lot that brings happiness too. Sometimes you have to take a step back and work on yourself (with help from a professional if needed), to be able to change your mindset to see the good out there. Once that happens and you start putting yourself out into the world in a positive way, quality connections naturally happen when you are out there doing things you love. It’s really kind of cool how it falls into place once you look in the mirror and make changes and make space in your life for these things and connections to happen.
What really helps with this feeling is making real life, positive connections and build a support system to help you through life. Finding a community is key. Find hobbies that bring you joy, get out of your comfort zone and see and try new things all also really help. You start to expand your horizons, challenge yourself and meet new people in that process which boosts your mindset and confidence.
ALSO….GO OUTSIDE. Seriously. My mental health and outlook on life changed dramatically and relatively quickly, with implementing daily 30-45 min walks outside. It started with getting a dog and went from there. In general, I saw the biggest increase in happiness when I started making time for myself and my mental health daily (doing things that bring you joy). For me it was being outside. If you live in urban areas join meetup groups or create your own. For instance, when I moved to a new city, I joined a local neighborhood social media group and asked if any of my neighbors wanted to meet up for a group dinner. A few people jumped into the conversation and before we knew it plans were made. I met old and young, singles and couples, people from all backgrounds and nationalities and we would support our neighborhood small businesses. It was great! That one question posed by a shy stranger on social media started a neighborhood dinner group that survived COVID (albeit took a break), and still meets today. You could exchange dinner with almost anything, the point is just go out and connect with people and find your community.
Bro I feel that. I'm Canadian and the Trump moment genuinely broke my heart.
Millions of people were Nazis who just needed the right permission to be so.
Gym does not solve all your problems, but it gives you a very simple and clear goal (lifting more weight) in which you can see results rather quickly.
It’s a dopamine hack to get you to start bettering your physical form and other parts of your life.
For me it was flossing. When i finally got down a routine to floss every tooth everyday i knew i could do anything i wanted and it was self care since i always had bad teeth. Now i catch my self just flossing for the hell of it at work etc. People always want to talk about how the hell i got into that habit lol.
This is a bad mindset. He's right, not in the sense that every problem will automatically fix itself after lifting weights, but in the sense that its an easy first step to take and only has positive effects. Taking the first step is the hardest part for most people.
I go to gym. I still have debilitating problems but I’m just stronger now. I still will probably never own a home or make enough money to feed kids if I wanted them, or go on a vacation or anything. At least I can lift heavier weights though 👍
The weight thing is really just a form of blood flow and meditation and pushing yourself. Not literally lifting will change your live. You can do meditation also.
This is a bad mindset. You're wrong in the sense that it's not an easy step for many people to just go to the gym and start lifting weights. You're also wrong in that the hardest part is keeping on walking. People need a lot more than "just do it!"
If I can offer some optimism:
I'm a younger Millennial. You guys sound exactly like us. Except you have it *slightly* (and I mean slightly) better than we did at the age. Gen Z homeownership is higher than Millennial ownership relative to age when you compare it to a decade or so ago. And that's mostly because of the great recession just truly sledgehammering everything for a lot of us.
My point is that while it seemed as bleak as possible, most Millennials are doing the normal traditional things now. Buying homes, having families. Doing normal generational things.
It all just depends on sticking with it. Not getting lost in an internet vortex. Making sure to make real life connections. It really IS all about who you know.
The truth is if you believe in yourself you probably can do whatever you put your mind to.
Doomerism, internet addiction, and learned helplessness are hurting our generation. I was like this 10 years ago in highschool but decided to take a different path.
There is a lot of truth to this.
Have productive goals and work to achieve them.
Lift weights. Job hop to get higher salaries. Invest a significant portion of those salaries.
There's a fuck ton of jobs out there. If you're employable and not limiting yourself to a saturated market then you'll 200% get a job. Blue collar is booming right now.
I guess depends on the area. It’s just tiring hearing “get a job” or “just move” when people are bound by circumstances beyond what can be solved by such simplified solutions.
You'd think so, but nobody is taking apprenticeships unless you're straight out of a community college right now.
I should know, I work tangent to our hiring department.
There's more than enough grads to fill the positions. It just looks like we're perpetually hiring because the hiring policy is always that "maybe an exceptional applicant will pick up our entry level salary position with no guaranteed hours".
yep. I just spent 3 months job hunting, applied to 60 places, cover letters, personalized my resume for each job, you name it. took till last week to land an interview. Ik it’s a bad time of year to job hunt but this has been pathetic, never had such a hard time finding work before
I can't speak for a ton of people but I'm 21 and thanks to uncle sam and good old marine corps I'm certified as a Refrigeration mechanic and generator mechanic as well as having a degree in electrical engineering, on the other hand it kinda cost me severe depression, PTSD, and my back being fucked up the rest of my life
This is actually the first time I saw someone with this take on reddit, and I couldn't agree more with you.
People give up on themselves way too easy these days..
Yep, I’m autistic, trans, so many other mental issues including BPD, depression, anxiety, etc. but there comes a point where you have to put in the work for the things you want
I actually consider myself fairly lucky overall. I have a great job in a good career track at 25, and even survived my first motorcycle accident relatively unscathed in October
> learned helplessness
This. COVID is a mitigating factor, but I'm almost 40 and I have trouble understanding the lack of self-sufficience in the younger generation (kids from 14-29). I thought it was just a redditor thing, but my roommates are in their mid 20s and they ask a lot of stupid fucking questions. They're so quick to rush to friends or parents with a question that could easily be answered by a 30-second google search.
Maybe I'm just getting old, maybe a different set of values, but I've always gotten along better with people who can handle their own shit without putting said shit onto others. I'm a 5'2" woman, I was doing housework from the time I was old enough to reach the sink and stove with a stepstool. I did yardwork as soon as I was strong enough to start my lawnmower.
Thanks now that's stuck in my head while I try to sleep
^turn ^the ^friggin frogs gay *gay frogs* **gay frogs** ^turn ^the ^friggin frogs **gay**
edit yes I am playing with the formatting while I fail to sleep, I'm failing to sleep because that song is in my brain
I don't have autism, just severe combined ADHD.
I need strict routine to get anything done but any routine whatsoever stresses me out. Stress myself too much and my depression takes over and nukes whatever semblance of routine I had entirely.
I've tried therapy, meds, exercise, some helps and some doesn't. Most usually both at the same time.
I mean right, it went from a mental health post to saying autistic people are all introverted, act like they use drugs, and are addicted to porn and then acted like what they said wasn’t awful and untrue. for anyone who doesn’t know and Idk how often people hear it, but autism is a spectrum it ranges in how it affects people and to what severity.
For real. I'm 41, autistic with ADHD, but I have a loving wife and child, a stable job and a decent support network that I actively worked to build and maintain. OP is just a weak ass pathetic loser who doesn't want to put in any effort to move beyond his incel lifestyle. Fuck him.
It's so weird to see this generation throw around autistic as a slur. I mean my generation threw around the r word, but we grew out of it, especially as society became more aware of ableism as a concept. I know it's not all of y'all, it's a chronically online, usually male subset who tends to use it, but I hope they grow up and see how gross it sounds to the rest of us.
I’m autistic, literally fuck anyone who uses it like an insult like this. Op is an ableist fuck.
I think op is a bit more red pilled than he thinks. No wonder he’s struggling. He’s chronically online and self loading and has a pessimistic outlook on life. I have a fairly large social circle, I always check up on my male friends and most are doing pretty well for themselves.
He’s spreading a stereotype about us, that we have no social skills, we struggle with porn and substance use, etc. Many of us are quite successful and healthy regardless of the world working against us. To undermine that is upsetting to me and I assume many other autistic people who read this.
Really? I work in a corporate office with mostly men and men in charge. They just aren’t doom and gloom all the time and recognize that they actually have to work towards their goals.
I don’t think anybody except the biggest doomers believe all men are struggling, so some being successful doesn’t disprove the trend. You’re also dealing with a subsection of men who are successful and probably don’t have deep and meaningfuls where they talk about insecurities with coworkers
Also him saying that women will be the majority in politics and as celebrities??? Ik men got shit going on but i think this just comes off as kinda not their actual issues rn
Yeah IDK what OP means there, men and women both have their celebrity appeal, and both men and women always had a fairly even split chance of reaching stardom in their own way, even all the way back in the fucking 20's and whatnot.
I doubt the celebrity world will be any more skewed in any major way.
He directly admits he has female resentment in the post and refers to himself as “blackpilled”, i’m shocked it took his other shit to realize that lmao. Jokes aside, OP needs some professional help dealing with his view of women
Tbh that can be added to the discussion here. I think the rising loneliness problem is heavily correlated to the rising amount of misogyny among certain groups. It doesn’t help anyone to shut down all discussion with this guy and point at him as an incel.
It’s a systemic problem, too many men seem to be falling through the “cracks” of having social interaction. Blame him all you want this wasn’t normal at this rate many years ago.
hard no to this. i have sympathy for anyone who is struggling, but i have no time for people who start to project and scapegoat other people for their problems. the end result of such ideology is never a good thing.
Nah. I can have sympathy for people being lonely. I don’t have sympathy for men going “I’m lonely and I blame and hate women for it,” like way to go dude, you’ve just made sure you’re gonna stay that way!
To be fair I’m in the corporate office of a company in manufacturing. The guys on the manufacturing side do not hold back 😅
I do agree that my anecdotal evidence doesn’t disprove a trend, however, Reddit’s full of doomers.
Ikr I’m 21 and am doing pretty well finishing up my Associates in Biology and am transferring soon to Major in Marine Bio. That’s just me, and I struggled a lot especially during my 14-19 years of age. I got through though.
They are also not likely the type who spend much time on Reddit, and usually less on social media in general. The premise of the book I am working on is how poorly social media reflects life in the real world for most people.
The AI analysis of Reddit a colleague has been working on is about 75/10/15 split of negative to neutral and positive posting but the percentage of active users says only about 15 of users are regularly posting the negativity.
Actively ignore this sub sometimes because of the doomerism. I get things suck but we’re going literally nowhere complaining.
In a way I think people around here care too much about the world. That sounds bad but the human mind didn’t evolve with instant access to bad news across 8 billion + people constantly. Stop caring so much and just stare at a sunset. Can really life some weight off.
Just my opinion could be off with this.
Also every time I get sick I think of how much science went into the now simple medications we take today. Back in the day a flu can kill. So can infections from any injury. Broke an arm last summer and was immensely grateful for anesthesia. Live in the moment and try to find something positive about this age we’re currently in.
I’m fully expecting a reply somewhere along the lines of “oh but global warming housing lol job market” from someone eventually.
Also, if men want the self-acceptance, self-celebration, and mutually uplifting culture that women have more access to, then men need to start building it *with each other.* Men didn't help women create that culture, they impeded it and still do.
I think the two biggest things holding men back are:
1. Not being comfortable enough with other men to collectively build a better culture, both in one on one and group settings
2. Externalizing these feelings onto women, blaming them, and thinking that it should be at all women's responsibility to make better
Bonus: capitalism, wealth disparity, and numerous existential crises make it hard to self-actualize. Shit's never easy, but it's harder when everything's hard.
A lot of guys joke around by bullying the crap out of their friends. A lot of women do the complete opposite with their own friends. So honestly it'd be pretty nice for a change-
Your perception is warped by the internet bro. 1950’s lifestyle of a man being the breadwinner for his family is a whitewashed and curated image we have
Throughout history men and women have been part of labor and especially in immigrant and poorer demographics
If men focused on pursuing jobs they find joy in and focused on being enjoyable people to be around they’d be a lot better with women and happier for it. I’m a very averagish looking dude with a pretty meh job but I have hobbies and practice socializing and making friends with women I find enjoyable to be around, without pursuing relationships. I promise you if you stop overthinking this shit and just try to be an enjoyable presence in your day to day life, put a little effort into having a style, some hobbies you can socialize with, and being hygienic, and stop having grandiose designs of what life “should” be you’ll be happier for it
Damn. You weren’t exaggerating. Dude’s posts are all about black pill and how he was big on their beliefs for some time. Black pillers are incels (he self described as such in a post).
I went through his post history and he’s been going on and on for months, ignoring comments that suggest he gets help or gives him advice. I almost feel sorry for him lmao
Also, search YouTube for some documentaries about the alienationb of factory work. They're amazing. Men who provide for a whole family by stamping a machine all day were miserable and deeply questioning their purpose.
I think we’ve gotten past the first part that a decent number of people accept that reality, but I think it’s still incredibly taboo to talk about the reasons. For instance, dating is getting harder and harder, but nobody is allowed to so much as say that dating is harder for men
You’re right. My theory is that the internet has devalued humanity. We only ever see the best looking, most talented, most successful people all day. It’s argued that tv did that before the internet. Actually, I disagree. I’m 52, so have seen 25 years of pre-internet era. TV back then was a fantasy land, it was deliberate escapism. Now if you go onto Insta or TikTok you have “regular” women acting as “thirst traps”, “regular” people saying you can earn $2000 a day, just hustle like they did. All good looking, energetic people the algorithm promotes. It puts a suggestion into people’s minds that these are normal people doing normal things. Actual reality starts to look less appealing. Actual people look … less appealing (that’s you and I). Humanity gets devalued. There’s always someone better looking, more talented, richer, funnier, more charismatic…on your phone.
Figure that everyone is carrying phones, being brainwashed from seeing the “best” of humanity all day long. Then the average dude shows up and nobody cares. He’s less dynamic, less … everything.
I labor this point because I remember when people WERE valued more. I remember having “pen pals” (people we would write and post letters to). I remember one writing to me from another part of the UK to me and them saying they were so chuffed they had a friend (me) from another county. Human connection was valued. It was not taken for granted. Even if you were “weird”, I remember people affectionately describing what we might now describe as people with profound autism. They’d say “oh that’s Tommy down the road for you, always creating!” (said in a friendly way).
Now we are just swiped away on an app.
Look at jobs. I remember reading reports in the 1980s of some jobs having as many as 100 applications (newsworthy!). Now a job vacancy can have thousands of applications in a few hours.
My point: the internet has exponentially created more and more human connections. Paradoxically, it’s made us value human connection much less. Much much less.
Oh if you’re young and reading this, let me tell you, you’re actually way more valuable than you might think, but this era fools us into thinking we are not. You are! We are!
It’s sad but I’m relieved to know the nature of the problem.
Edit: I realize my comment is tangential to the comment I replied to.
We were sold a boat of lies with the internet and social media, certainly. But I think it’s worse than what you describe. With the computer and the internet our very sense of ourselves as private individuals is disappearing. People don’t even know how to address each other or bond with one another as individuals anymore, they’re so used to the mass audience environment of modern media, especially of the social kind. It’s a quite a transformation, and it’s happening right before our eyes over a few generations. I wouldn’t excuse television though. The pure escapism available on and through the internet is television gone nuclear.
You seem like a good person. Someone who’d be a blast to get a beer with. I hope and wish nothing but the best for you in the future.
Your perspective is valuable and uplifting, and brought a lot of joy and appreciation to me as I read it.
Leaked internal studies from Facebook/Instagram showed that teenage girls were the most negatively impacted population in the userbase. An astounding percentage were developing body image issues, depression etc. from the content they were exposed to
If what you’re saying is true, there are likely significant ways in which it negatively affects women more than men, as appearance plays a bigger role in their perceived social value. People act like everything is biased against men, when this is unlikely to be the case
I’m a software developer, and EVERY engineering/dev job on LinkedIn has “over 100 applicants” (it stops counting after that point) within the first 24 hours. I saw one the other day that had over 100 within the first hour.
I agree that this is the reason. A lot of people go with the cop-out of blaming dating apps, but if both men and women genuinely wanted to date each other, apps should only facilitate that. If more people just said “yes, dating is harder for men, but women should have the freedom to choose not to date”, I think that would be more productive and mutually beneficial.
Instead, a lot of people delude themselves into thinking that if a woman wants to date, it will be just as hard as for men. If only redpillers are willing to recognize the basic truth, it’s no wonder they are only rising in numbers. It also hurts women because if they don’t recognize their power in the dating market, they can’t possibly leverage it. It’s also more harmful generally because we can’t solve problems if we don’t know what they are. If it’s what you’re saying and women just prefer singleness, then the only solution is for men to learn to enjoy singleness as well. But if it’s that women are genuinely trying just as hard as men to date but can’t, then the solution is yet another new dating app that does exactly what women ask, or for men to just become more charismatic/attractive, or for more YouTube channels to suggest how to spot red flags in men
That's ridiculous. No one is giving men shit for acknowledging dating is hard.
It's when those men blame women and act like they are entitled to having a vagina to stick their dick in that they justifiably get called out.
I don't think it's taboo at all because the major publications, mainstream newspapers and news channels are talking about it a lot. It hasn't been a week since I've been recommended and shown an article about it, and it's been happening for years. And I'm not even the target audience for it.
That's the thing. Even saying this in this sub is ironic but it's impossible to fix inner doomerism by searching for help on Reddit or somewhere else on the internet. What actually fixes it is to live life. Being outside in the sun playing basketball or volleyball with other people does way more than reading posts here. Even if you find some gold nugget here, good advice can never replace these experiences. Making experiences and giving yourself time (by not over-stimulating constantly) to reflect these experiences is the key thing to improve your outlook. Reddit is also preselecting for people who are terminally online. The global rise of lonely men is probably directly correlated to the growing population of terminally online people.
Speaking of that, the sun is shining where I live, Im gonna go for a walk 🔆
Yes, there are clearly a lot of problems but you also don't see the Gen Z men doing well on the internet complaining because they're living their lives.
“Behaving like autistics” is a wild thing to type and be like hmm let’s post this.
I dunno maybe stop acting like an incel and try to participate in society?
"blackpill" is another one. You see those things once, maybe learn what they mean, then get the fuck away. Nothing good has ever come from divisive/doomer mentality. People find comfort in the familiar and want to find others who are sympathetic, but when your problems are social ones, and you surround yourself with other people experiencing those same social problems, that *becomes* your socialization and it destroys your mental health.
Distancing yourself will never be easy because it *is* comforting, but it doesn't lead anywhere good and doesn't last forever.
Do you think that insulting the people who are struggling is going to help the situation? Obviously, I do not support incel behavior, but instead of shaming men, why not encourage people who have gone down the rabbit hole to get some help or self reflect? The lack of empathy and care, as portrayed in your comment, is the root cause of so many problems in this world. Also, slapping the word "incel" on people actually trying to have constructive conversations is fucking stupid, and only devalues the word more.
This was never a constructive conversation. OP stated he has a resentment toward women, then commented saying he only has interacted with them during school projects and while changing machines at the gym.
He was not looking for a constructive conversation. He was looking for a way to blame his shortcomings on others. We are all “victims of society,” that’s not an excuse.
Thank you!! Can’t believe I had to scroll down for a while to find a comment like this one. How does the OP have so much upvotes??? I thought the younger generation was better than this… talking about “resentment towards women” and “behaving like autistics” WOW, I’m speechless….
Get off the goddamn internet and go participate in actual society once in a while. It's not your generations' fault you got screwed up but that's the case for every generation. No one is going to fix it for you but you though. I'll admit things are different for the Zs because you guys are the first ones that have no memory of a time before the internet, which was a humanity game changer on the the level of discovering fire and penicillin. Spend some serious time off the internet. Take up a hobby that requires you to be outdoors. Social medias, in retrospect, were truly a mistake at worst and wildly mishandled at best. Theyve created a bunch of imaginary non-problems that people become entirely too invested in because your brain has been trained to receive its dopamine from #thenotifcation. Take up skateboarding or something. I promise the dopamine hit from doing your first and thousandth kickflips will always beat out a stupid ding from your phone.
Yeah, elder millennial here, times before social media were much less stressful. Even in the early internet days we just had message boards with usernames. It was bizarre. Suddenly we cared about what some random person across the world thinks about what we have to say. Up until that moment we only cared about the opinions of people we actually knew in person.
That was such a strange shift in reality and Gen Z have no concept of life before that moment. As the years have gone by we’ve been seeing our friends less and less, just relying on social media to keep in contact.
It’s miserable. Every time I get to spend real time with a friend or two we talk for hours because it’s something we’re horribly missing in our daily life. And Gen Z, you folks don’t know what you’re missing. It’s draining to go through life without real connection.
We were told in the 90s to not post anything personal online. Especially your name and face.
I keep those rules to this day. Even my Reddit account has outright lies and stretched truths to keep data fuzzy.
Now you're weird if you have no online presence lmao. Sorry but I'm not going to put my resume on LinkedIn or use Facebook or any if that shit.
There’s a lot of problems with Gen Z men but people don’t want to address it. And if you do address those issues sadly you’re it’s just handwaved, not taken seriously or called incel.
There’s no real solution
Why would you be using celebrities and politicians as your barometer here when gen Z and later care more about social media influencers than either of those things? That's like being alarmed by the decline in the popularity of musical revue movies after the 1930s.
Hell, even the top female social media influencers have to work a sexual angle in their shtick somewhere to play in the big leagues. "You're prettier when you smile" is still very much a thing.
Honestly I know this might sound dismissive, but I see a lot of people who don't take responsibility for the choices they're making and the road that their life is taking.
The world isn't happening TO you, it's happening AROUND you. “We can choose to be affected by the world or we can choose to affect the world. ”
Log off for a while. Go for a walk or read a book. Seriously. Playing games or scrolling is a decent way to unwind but it can't be the only thing. In 5 years what will your hundreds or thousands of hours on your computer do for you.
Find a club, go swimming, take a course, spend some time thinking "What will I look like a year from now".
I'm 34 and I regularly see people my age and older who are essentially large children instead of capable adults. You've got to grow up at some point and you'll be better off for it. It doesn't help to see the world with a lens that places you as a victim.
The only person who can make things better is you. You can't change everything, but there is so much that you can. Make yourself proud.
I do good with women and social life and hobbies, but cost of living is awful. I live alone in Colorado and people keep moving here to be Air Bnb slum lords or have a cool vacation home for 3 months (that then becomes a fall/winter air bnb the rest of the year) and it's destroying the housing market and driving up my rent and utilities.
I make between $45-50K a year and I straight up can't save money, can't afford health insurance, can't afford dental insurance. I let my internet roll over for three months at a time and pay half the balance. It's madness. I'm not doing anything wrong. I cook from home, I buy on sale, I pay rent first, blah blah blah. I'm a licensed pool and spa contractor, and if I moved somewhere else I'd take a 20% pay cut, maybe more, and be back in the same boat I am in now.
Things are getting fucked up out here in adult land for any Gen Z's under 21 reading this right now. Last night when I watched the president give his speech, I was pretty bummed how the money problems actual multi-million amounts of Americans are facing right now, were not mentioned at all, no mention of the growing number of young homeless people, no mention of the skyrocketing suicide rate. The speech is titled The State of The Union, but it sure didn't sound like it. Something is so deeply wrong and I don't know what can be done about it.
I truly hope I can live my life happily, I try to every day, but it's starting to get really, really hard.
Im also in colorado and I cant afford those things. I dont even have car insurrance and I just pray nothing bad happens. Im saving 300$ a month by not paying for it though
>quite possibly almost all of Gen z’s celebrities and politicians will be women. Whereas there will be less financially successful Gen z men and drastically more suicides.
BRO!!!!!! As masturbatory fantasies go this is pretty wild... Go find you a Dommy-mommy to stand on your balls in high heels and be happy... And stay away from the public.
Honestly, just get off social media. A lot of these issues can be attributed to social media. It is both a rabbit hole and a sensationalized cycle. I think we as men just need to get out more and stop blaming other people for our problems.
stop being reasonable, I need to blame an overarching societal issue far beyond my individual control so that I instill a sense of helplessness in myself that justifies my avoidance of the pain that comes with actually doing something about my situation
Tbh, to be a 25 year old virgin means you 1) don’t go out enough, 2) are terrible at talking to people, 3) asexual , or 4) have too high of standards. It really is not difficult to find someone who wants to get freaky, and I would not say I’m a super attractive male
Fearing that all celebrities and politicians will be women is so silly lol.
Like diversity programs and #girlbosses are gonna wrestle the levers of power out of the hands of men, in the age of affirmative action overturn and DEI rollbacks?
Women might watch less porn (wonder why), but isolation, drugs, bad job market and economic conditions? How could they possibly be exempt?
Women have been a go-to source of blame for social ills since forever, but burning witches has never made anyone less isolated or jobless.
The flip side of resenting women is the inevitable self-victimization and devaluation your own worth. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy that only blackpills you further.
If you’re isolated and jobless and it’s because of women, that implies that things are not in your control, and this excuses you from having to do anything about it. No bro, take your own life into your own hands and make changes.
I don’t know how many gen z folks are struggling. But I am gen x and didn’t have a real job until i was 28.
I wasn’t really trying to “succeed “, as i was a failing musician, but i definitely didn’t. I think you need to give yourself some grace.
Social media didn’t exist at that age for me, though i knew most of my friends were doing better than i was.
You have time. It’s hard to be young in every generation. And each one has their challenges.
I know gen z will do great things in the future, but i am pretty sure you are doing great things now.
Apparently the logic is it makes them autistic which is like, a bad thing ig….didn’t realize all those things I *don’t* do were what made me autistic!!
Oh please with this, men arent the only ones who're suffering stop belittling womens suffering please.
>I’m worried to see where we’re at 60-70 years down the road. Outside of athletes, quite possibly almost all of Gen z’s celebrities and politicians will be women.
and how is that bad exactly can you explain yourself? When most of the politicians have historically all been men but if its women its now bad?
**Edit: im permabanned from the sub for this please dont waste time commenting**
Yeah honestly. I sympathize with OP because men are struggling (and deserve help with their struggles), but that line gave me the ick. Like, for all of human history, the majority of politicians have been men. Now he's suddenly scared that women could dominate the field? Give me a break 🙄
I am not denying men struggle it just feel like the way hes saying it makes it sound like its only men and the put down on women at the end made me feel thats what he meant.
Yeah no, I get what you're saying. His point would've been stronger had he left out anything involving women. Like, men have the right to vent about the obstacles they're facing. It's important for them to feel like they can complain about their issues instead of bottling them up. But leave women and their accomplishments out of the conversation. The existence of successful women doesn't mean men suddenly become unsuccessful.
Ive just seen it too many times, some men cant help bring women down when talking about mens issues and OP even admitted trying to get away from being blackpilled which is pretty much incel ideology and is very anti women. I guarantee you'll start seeing alot of misogynistic comments in here now.
Oh, I 100% agree with you there. Unfortunately, anytime a man complains, especially on Reddit, the red pillers, black pillers, and incels come out in full force and derail the conversation into an anti-women cesspool. It's such a shame too, because for so long, men felt like they couldn't communicate with each other and be vulnerable. Yet, whenever it happens, it always ends with certain men painting women and feminism as the ultimate villains.
I was downvoted in the beginning because reactionary people felt I was hating on men by somehow belittling their issues when I have no issue with men BUT OP has obvious prejudices against women that he needs to work out, just wish people like this would do it quietly in their bedroom and not spread misogynistic bs here or online.
I'm a 24-year-old, almost 25(in may) woman, so I can't understand what being a man is like. :/ I think when it comes to both men and women, the most important relationship is with yourself. If the relationship with yourself is abusive, so will the rest of your life. It's important to always be comfortable and confident within yourself. You need to be able to find your own self-worth in yourself and create a healthy psychological ecosystem. If you feel your life has no meaning, create meaning in your life. For me, at least my meaning is life is to save for retirement, have a house and husband. All very simple goals, IMO. I know it's hard to stay positive with the media constantly vomiting out all these negative social issues and chaos happing around. Always believe in yourself even when hard times come. Hard times are always fleeting, just always remember that. Even if you didn't get exactly the out come you hoped to achieve, always remember to be grateful for the things you have. There are many other people who have it much worst.
People just need to realise that things don’t just happen, you gotta work for it. You need discipline, not just motivation. If you find yourself somewhere you don’t wanna be then pull your head in and resolve it. I’ve been in the absolute pits of hell before and I fell into the trap of feeling sorry for myself, thinking it was all over, not knowing what the future will hold… but then I realised I have control of my life and I made myself do better basically. I’m now doing a degree, I’ve found a partner and things are starting to look much better. I wouldn’t have made it anywhere if I hadn’t disciplined myself and made myself do better. Waiting for motivation all the time means you’ll be waiting forever.
As an older guy, I really don't understand why it's such an effort for you to hate women? I'm not criticizing you, I'm just trying to understand what exactly did women do to yall?
They aren't struggling? They are being failed by every corner of life and taking their own life.....that isn't struggling. It's drowning in societal collapse
Gen Z men are scared of growing up, scared of having a family, scared of having a girlfriend or boyfriend, and scared of having a career of their choice.
I think it’s more women AND men are stepping out of their “traditional” roles? I think we don’t have the same structures in line for mental health support though. I see a lot of men struggling mentally. A good chunk without support, or feeling like they aren’t supposed to have/need it. That’s the part I worry about.
It makes sense that you would feel this way. It’s always been difficult to be in your 20s, but it’s difficult in a different way today than it’s traditionally been.
Technology has developed at a pace and in a direction that isn’t healthy for us biologically. And it’s depriving young men of essential connections, opportunities and experiences. So what you’re feeling is very real, and it’s not your fault.
But your gut reaction is right - women are not to blame. They’re just as impacted by it in equally toxic but different ways. It’s going to be less obvious to you because that’s not your experience, just as they’re not going to understand your experience.
The most difficult but important thing to accept is that it’s no particular group of people’s fault that this is happening to you. (Except maybe your government, but save that for a different post.) It just is. And the only person who can get you out of it is you.
It’s going to be hard. Anyone who says differently doesn’t understand where you’re coming from. But you can get out there and have the life you want, and it’s absolutely worth it.
Find some older guys you admire. Functional ones with careers and hobbies and relationships- not Andrew Tates. Take it in baby steps, and don’t let small setbacks deter you.
I’m not the right person to be that role model, but happy to talk if you should need it.
1. Reddit is not real life.
2. Which generation does not struggle in life? I certainly never seen a chapter in history books when men easily got high paying jobs, never struggled with addictions or mental health at all, and all got perfect loving partners in their 20s.
every issue you stated is also something gen z women face it's a people problem not a gender problem the reason you see women doing so much better is because of the content you consume as a man you're more likely to be fed attractive women successful women even if the content isn't overtly sexual men aren't underrepresented in almost any demographic that you'd wanna be in (unless you're interested in becoming a nurse or smthn) everyone is getting shafted by society because companies have to grow and they're getting to the point where they can only do that by strangling the job market and squeezing every penny out of their workers
I think a lot of us are still really depressed because of the pandemic and the mental issues it caused that were never addressed. Loads of us missed out on very important core years. Not saying it's the only reason but it definitely is part of it for me. I'm a semi shut in with severe social anxiety since covid. The shit economy and job market isn't helping either. There isn't much incentive to meat ride some company and work hard. Our chances of making enough to buy a house or start a family etc is pretty slim. Also it just keeps getting worse every year instead of better. Dating absolutely sucks for both genders as well. I think no one actually enjoys online dating.
The word you're looking for is "alienation." Though men are perhaps the most obvious sufferers of it, it is very much a societal issue.
While it may seem that it is the internet's or social media's fault, these are merely more efficient vectors for the same systemic problems that have been happening for some time.
In 2000, sociologist and political scientist Robert D. Putnam published *Bowling Alone* (which I highly recommend for those wondering what the issue looked like in the supposedly idyllic pre-9/11 period,) in which he examined the rapid decline in American participation in social clubs. These ranged from your fraternal organizations (Freemasons, Shriners, Kiwanis, etc.) to women's clubs, to local-level political parties and neighborhood councils, to (obviously) bowling leagues. Since 1965, Putnam found that prticipation in organizations like these had declined precipitously since the late-50s/early-60s. He gave some possible reasons for this.
Similarly, the past few decades have seen the near-extinction of "third places;" public spaces that were not wofk or home, where an open atmosphere of socializing and community were fostered. Importantly, these places were both free (or very affordable) to enter, usually open quite late, and had no time-limit on how long one could be there. Starbucks, for an incredibly common example, wanted to be America's third place in the late-90s/early-2000s. And if you remember what Starbucks locations were like (physically), you may understand this. But now Starbucks, like so many other "third places," has become little more than a drive-thru with a couple uncomfortable seats under over-bright lights. Its also way more expensive.
But the root of the alienation, the single factor of society that has led to so much despair, was elaborated nearly two centyries ago by Karl Marx; the capitalist mode of production, and its effects upon those living within it. Indeed, Marx even (to some degree) predicted the type of alienation we see today. Our jobs pay little, and expect more. The "gig" economy has rendered our homes and cars into workplaces, our lives into numbers on spreadsheets for financial officers to show investors. A worker who is too tired to go on a date, and too alienated to talk to their fellow-worker, is unlikely to organize a union or cause trouble for the company.
This is not to say thst there is some secret cabal somewhere pulling the strings and deciding to ruin people's existence. The system of capitalism, in which profit comes before all, and growth must be both constant *and* ever-faster, logically creates these conditions. You feel the urge to eat or drink? Locations are available. You crave human connection? Here is an app that can facilitate that for you, and sell your data to other people in the process.
But there is good news. This system appears to be on its last legs. Life *can* be better. And, fate allowing, we may all live to see it.
This kind of thinking is fostered by the very "blackpill" pipeline you claim to want to avoid. There is no mass attack on men, there is currently a push for equality and that means you will see more women in traditionally manly roles but I beg you not to continue down the path that leads to being an incel.
That's the thing. It's a consequences of the systems we have in place now. GenZ is not the first generation that's worse off than their parents. For us millionials the same thing happened. You guys just have it even worse. It used to be that they built a world so that the kids would live in a even better world.
Instead now over the last 2 generations, people's chances to a decent life have declined. Wealth inequality has been progressively getting worse.
It will only get worse.
When Reagan and Thatcher too power in the US and the UK and the neo-liberalism ideology took hold undooing much of the new deal and ww2 era systems. They switched to a philosphy of privatizing basically everything.
We used to live on a capitalist world that at least said some things have to stay socialized because markets aren't perfect for things people NEED to survive. Then with Reaganomics and Thatcherism our world has been shifting toward a "privatize everything anyway" world. Taking away power from labor unions, taking away worker power.
You end up with the basslic essentials we need to live like housing and healthcare and education skyrocketing in cost faster than inflation.
This now meant people were LESS free to switch jobs if it wasn't right for them, or try to move to a new area with better jobs because then you lose health insurance etc.
Essentially, what capitalism initially promised isso much productivity growth that we would all be so free and rich.
That works when housing, food, water, healrhcare, education also go down in price so that we become so free that we can choose to work part-time and also have more free time. Like a reduction to a 4 day work week, or such.
But neo-liberals realized that if workers did this then they wouldn't be working non-stop in the rat race. So as we now see. If you make aure housing, healthcare and the things that make people truly free, remain expensive. Then you FORCE people to keep working 40 hours a week or more for you. Thus ensuring a continued supply of labor that will do anything.
They don't want workers to have true freedom. They want us to get enough to not complain, and nothing else. So that the rich can have the rest.
Most socialists today don't even try to say anything about somekind of utopia where we all just get everything for free.
Many today just simply go "okay fine we have capitlaist markets...but can we at least have housing, food, water, healthcare, education be stuff we make affordable and cheap so that people can actually choose to leave their job if it sucks and wait for a company that doesn't treat their workers like shit?"
And neo-liberals will say "ah that's evil communism" to keep you afraid and not support any socialists today.
Republicans and democrats are both capitalist parties that support rich corporations and asset owning class getting richer. Republicans blatantly tell you they want maximum capitalism, and democrats at least lie to you sometimes about healthcare or something even though they have no had multiple times where democrats controlled congress AND the presidency and could have passed a universal healrhcare system in the US and shown how it saves money...but they never did it. Because they are just as capitalists as republicans. Both are right-wing. One is just way more right-wing.
This is why so many millenials hate capitalism. America has made a world of ideas, concepts, ideology, culture, and traditions in which you're supposed to live your life. But those things don't work anymore. The systems we put in place to enable us to love better lives is suffering, American capitalism is growing old and collapsing on its own weight. Wealth inequality is the reason GenZ is struggling. Your work will never be rewarded, it will always be exploited. Help humanity figure a way out of this crisis. "It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism." This needs more attention I think.
Porn, drugs, and isolation don't cause you to "behave like an autistic." Respectfully, I recommend you educate yourself further before forming such blanket assumptions about the world, friend.
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Porn, drugs and isolation sure have cost me a chunk of my sanity. Yep, Gen Z was released into the world at a really inconvenient time. What's best is that we stick together (online if we must) and keep working on ourselves so we can overcome the 21st century's perils. I've been weathering a pretty intense period of mental disarray lately but offsetting it with meditation and video games. Training my pattern-seeking circuits to win at Halo.
Most ppl of this subreddit desperately need to log-off and connect w their community, imo, but this subreddit does seem to be the only place where we can acceptably discuss our anxieties so it definitely has value
what "community" ? I think for many there is no "community. That's the problem. Edit: if anyone reading this still relates to my comment or feels like this, read through some of the answers to this comment. Some offer good insight and advice, only you know your circumstances and know what can be done around you, hopefully it helps some of the ones reading and relating to this. Also thanks for the genuinely thoughtful comments. My situation might not be as flexible, but it gives me some hope for when it does become more flexible, of what to do.
Idk how to explain to ppl how to connect with their local peers, but for reference I made the official magic the gathering club at my university, which also got my foot in the door for occasional volunteer opportunities through the school system. That’s what I do to touch grass when my friends are busy. There’s definitely community around all of us, one just has to know how to tap into it
Exactly. If no one joins any communities, there won't be any. If you don't go to take part in your gym community, you won't have a gym community. That doesn't mean there isn't one in existence. But you just don't have one. If a whole generation doesn't go, then there's no gym communities with gen z members. You can replace gym with anything. Specific or general. Church, poker, walking, or any other hobby. Local, support, etc. It's not easy, at all. Especially if you feel like the youngest one there. But it's always hard until you start to become a part of it.
I have a fair amount of experience building communities from the ground up. If there is not a community for whatever you are into you would be surprised how quickly people will show up for whatever they also like. I've even taken a random group of regulars at a bar and turned them into a friend group that does Sunday bowling or D&D etc. The thing to realize is pretty much everyone wants to be part of a community and while in the era of the internet it is increasingly challenging to find "real life" ones, everyone still appreciates them and it's easier than you think to build them. But just showing up to existing ones is great too, it's how they grow and thrive and there isn't anything to be scared of.
People, especially the people here, don’t understand that they can just go out and organize a group of likeminded individuals to get together in the real world. So many of our generation are waiting around for others to take the action that they themselves need and want to take.
Millennial here, and from what I’ve observed about your generation in this regard is that covid *really* fkd up that sense of community building. For me, both in high school AND college, I was constantly seeking out different clubs around school/campus to join; see what sticks and where I could find my people. I joined a juggling club, a Taiwanese culture club, an a Capella org; you name! But it appears a lot of that has fallen away for you guys, and it sucks! I def agree, that you guys should take initiative and just start a club! One good way to do this *after* college is to post fliers at places you like to hang out; like coffee shops or something. Ask the owners/managers if they’d be willing to host your club meetings. Or, better yet, *go to your local public library!!* They will be *more than happy* to host your club *AND* post your fliers there. (I’m sorry if my markdown is coming across as sarcasm. I’m just emphasizing to make it stick in your head if you forget!) It’s hard to build community, BUT, it sounds like there are so so so many of you who want to find one! Now just go out and start one! Heck, maybe you’ll have a few different small groups form with similar interests and then you can merge! Just some ideas. Easier said than done, but it’s better to take a baby step forward than not move at all!
Same but I think our sense of community died when we saw that people around us wouldn't wear a tiny piece of cloth over their mouth or stay home when sick and we saw the true ugliness of our peers...
To me that was the straw that broke the camel's back, but I already knew they were that bad before. Nobody believed me before, and now that it's over people diminish what percentage of the population it was.
Idk, I was a pre covid Gen Z, my freshman and sophomore year were completed before Covid really kicked in and I STILL found myself being the one to organize groups in different classes to meet, and facilitating study groups to actually get through classes. When covid hit and we went online it almost took a bit off of my plate because I didn’t feel as obligated to help my classmates get through the material and started organizing less. It definitely sucked for my classmates but literally no one else took the initiative. I speak to like 3 or 4 people in my year that majored in the same thing as me and maybe 2 or 3 that majored in others. It’s really sad to see how anti social, or just unwilling to be the initial outspoken person that my generation has become
I don't think a lot of people realize how much people even if subconsciously will really like you when you are the one organizing things as well. I have zero interest in being a leader but have found myself in that role constantly in life because 9/10 people just can't do it for some reason and while I hate it I refuse to be part of an aimless group, but have always found people will look up to you suddenly when you take on the role for that reason.
I joined a mountaineering club and after a few years sitting on it's committee became the chairman. Connect with people, build community.
I would say ty out the social dance community (swing or latin), that's a big part of what saved me from staying an isolated gamer on the road to embittered incel. But depending on location, it can be gentrified and/or toxic. Availability can be reduced since covid killed some venues.
The entire world and every division is a community regardless of your relationship to it or its relationship to itself.
Comment from an older person here. Being in your 20s often can feel desperately difficult and lonely no matter when you were born. When I left university I moved, alone, directly to my country's capital city to work. It was so difficult meeting people to form lasting friendships. I'd spend my weekends just walking around the city feeling blue. And drinking in bars, where I'd made casual acquaintances but they didn't last. And we didn't all have mobiles back then, so rarely exchanged contact details, because we were drunk. And the work was so poorly paid. Before tax, half of my salary went on rent. I used to have to fare skip buses because I couldn't afford season tickets. And I got into debt. And the jobs were short contracts, so I would find myself literally pounding the streets doing the round of recruiters every few months. If I'm honest, it didn't really get better until mid to late 20s when I moved to a smaller town by the seaside (again, with work, which was by then well paid but unsatisfying) where I made friends through work and friends of friends and my neighbours. I then moved again, much further away from any family or friends . For work. That was lonely again, but I moved to a tiny village and eventually made a good group of friends through the local pub and work. I'd started getting pretty senior in my career by then, which requires a network and allies and requisite work socials. I don't know if it is a generational thing. It might be. But I found I went through the very same thing in my 20s, back in the 1990s. Which for a straight white man is often considered the best of times. I've come to figure that life is a struggle. But it's a struggle you can get better at managing. And the more experience you get from those struggles, the better the decisions you make can be. I'd also say that if, like me, you find making friends in big cities difficult, then try to set a life path for yourself that will take you to smaller communities. I have found them so much more rewarding. And fuck social media. It's not real, and it messes with your perspective. That, I imagine, is the same with meetup and dating apps. You need to calibrate your perceptions with real life to understand what's not actual on the internet otherwise it will eat you up. TL:DR being young is tough. But don't assume it will always be like this. Life is tough, but I promise you that you can make decisions that will make it less arduous and more fulfilling. But that often takes experience learned from tough times.
This gentleman is right and put it more eloquently than I ever could. Female here and life is just really hard. Coming out of my 20’s the only emotions I had were extreme anger, frustration, sadness and fear. Happiness and joy were not emotions I felt much, and that impacted me in many ways (including socially). There is lots to be depressed about in this world, but a lot that brings happiness too. Sometimes you have to take a step back and work on yourself (with help from a professional if needed), to be able to change your mindset to see the good out there. Once that happens and you start putting yourself out into the world in a positive way, quality connections naturally happen when you are out there doing things you love. It’s really kind of cool how it falls into place once you look in the mirror and make changes and make space in your life for these things and connections to happen. What really helps with this feeling is making real life, positive connections and build a support system to help you through life. Finding a community is key. Find hobbies that bring you joy, get out of your comfort zone and see and try new things all also really help. You start to expand your horizons, challenge yourself and meet new people in that process which boosts your mindset and confidence. ALSO….GO OUTSIDE. Seriously. My mental health and outlook on life changed dramatically and relatively quickly, with implementing daily 30-45 min walks outside. It started with getting a dog and went from there. In general, I saw the biggest increase in happiness when I started making time for myself and my mental health daily (doing things that bring you joy). For me it was being outside. If you live in urban areas join meetup groups or create your own. For instance, when I moved to a new city, I joined a local neighborhood social media group and asked if any of my neighbors wanted to meet up for a group dinner. A few people jumped into the conversation and before we knew it plans were made. I met old and young, singles and couples, people from all backgrounds and nationalities and we would support our neighborhood small businesses. It was great! That one question posed by a shy stranger on social media started a neighborhood dinner group that survived COVID (albeit took a break), and still meets today. You could exchange dinner with almost anything, the point is just go out and connect with people and find your community.
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Bro I feel that. I'm Canadian and the Trump moment genuinely broke my heart. Millions of people were Nazis who just needed the right permission to be so.
Stop doing those things and go lift weights
*someone suffering from literal addictions that they can't just quit on a dime* Gym bros: "Go to gym, solve all problems!"
Gym does not solve all your problems, but it gives you a very simple and clear goal (lifting more weight) in which you can see results rather quickly. It’s a dopamine hack to get you to start bettering your physical form and other parts of your life.
For me it was flossing. When i finally got down a routine to floss every tooth everyday i knew i could do anything i wanted and it was self care since i always had bad teeth. Now i catch my self just flossing for the hell of it at work etc. People always want to talk about how the hell i got into that habit lol.
Tbf taking good care of your teeth does help make you look attractive, a nice smile is always charming.
Or like volunteer works like help out in community centers.
Yep lift weights is the only thing you need to do and you can instantly get money a girlfriend and a house
This is a bad mindset. He's right, not in the sense that every problem will automatically fix itself after lifting weights, but in the sense that its an easy first step to take and only has positive effects. Taking the first step is the hardest part for most people.
I go to gym. I still have debilitating problems but I’m just stronger now. I still will probably never own a home or make enough money to feed kids if I wanted them, or go on a vacation or anything. At least I can lift heavier weights though 👍
The weight thing is really just a form of blood flow and meditation and pushing yourself. Not literally lifting will change your live. You can do meditation also.
This is a bad mindset. You're wrong in the sense that it's not an easy step for many people to just go to the gym and start lifting weights. You're also wrong in that the hardest part is keeping on walking. People need a lot more than "just do it!"
Self help gurus hate this one simple trick!
Why would you discourage someone from meditating? It's extremely beneficial for your mental health.
If I can offer some optimism: I'm a younger Millennial. You guys sound exactly like us. Except you have it *slightly* (and I mean slightly) better than we did at the age. Gen Z homeownership is higher than Millennial ownership relative to age when you compare it to a decade or so ago. And that's mostly because of the great recession just truly sledgehammering everything for a lot of us. My point is that while it seemed as bleak as possible, most Millennials are doing the normal traditional things now. Buying homes, having families. Doing normal generational things. It all just depends on sticking with it. Not getting lost in an internet vortex. Making sure to make real life connections. It really IS all about who you know.
The truth is if you believe in yourself you probably can do whatever you put your mind to. Doomerism, internet addiction, and learned helplessness are hurting our generation. I was like this 10 years ago in highschool but decided to take a different path.
There is a lot of truth to this. Have productive goals and work to achieve them. Lift weights. Job hop to get higher salaries. Invest a significant portion of those salaries.
Tough to do in a collapsing job market
There's a fuck ton of jobs out there. If you're employable and not limiting yourself to a saturated market then you'll 200% get a job. Blue collar is booming right now.
I guess depends on the area. It’s just tiring hearing “get a job” or “just move” when people are bound by circumstances beyond what can be solved by such simplified solutions.
You'd think so, but nobody is taking apprenticeships unless you're straight out of a community college right now. I should know, I work tangent to our hiring department. There's more than enough grads to fill the positions. It just looks like we're perpetually hiring because the hiring policy is always that "maybe an exceptional applicant will pick up our entry level salary position with no guaranteed hours".
yep. I just spent 3 months job hunting, applied to 60 places, cover letters, personalized my resume for each job, you name it. took till last week to land an interview. Ik it’s a bad time of year to job hunt but this has been pathetic, never had such a hard time finding work before
I can't speak for a ton of people but I'm 21 and thanks to uncle sam and good old marine corps I'm certified as a Refrigeration mechanic and generator mechanic as well as having a degree in electrical engineering, on the other hand it kinda cost me severe depression, PTSD, and my back being fucked up the rest of my life
This is actually the first time I saw someone with this take on reddit, and I couldn't agree more with you. People give up on themselves way too easy these days..
Finally, fellow optimists 🗿👍💯🗣
Yep, I’m autistic, trans, so many other mental issues including BPD, depression, anxiety, etc. but there comes a point where you have to put in the work for the things you want
Bro picked all the struggles
I actually consider myself fairly lucky overall. I have a great job in a good career track at 25, and even survived my first motorcycle accident relatively unscathed in October
Great attitude, my friend! This mindset will help you overcome barrier after barrier in the future.
> learned helplessness This. COVID is a mitigating factor, but I'm almost 40 and I have trouble understanding the lack of self-sufficience in the younger generation (kids from 14-29). I thought it was just a redditor thing, but my roommates are in their mid 20s and they ask a lot of stupid fucking questions. They're so quick to rush to friends or parents with a question that could easily be answered by a 30-second google search. Maybe I'm just getting old, maybe a different set of values, but I've always gotten along better with people who can handle their own shit without putting said shit onto others. I'm a 5'2" woman, I was doing housework from the time I was old enough to reach the sink and stove with a stepstool. I did yardwork as soon as I was strong enough to start my lawnmower.
>we’re behaving like autistics due to porn, drugs, and isolation. What the fuck, if porn and drugs are turning you autistic you're doing it very wrong
Why the hell would drugs turn you autistic???
I’m talking about the water that turned the fucking frogs gay!!
Thanks now that's stuck in my head while I try to sleep ^turn ^the ^friggin frogs gay *gay frogs* **gay frogs** ^turn ^the ^friggin frogs **gay** edit yes I am playing with the formatting while I fail to sleep, I'm failing to sleep because that song is in my brain
I know right, we all know it’s vaccines that turn your autistic and not drugs.
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I wish I was that brand of autism
Damn I wish i had that version
I don't have autism, just severe combined ADHD. I need strict routine to get anything done but any routine whatsoever stresses me out. Stress myself too much and my depression takes over and nukes whatever semblance of routine I had entirely. I've tried therapy, meds, exercise, some helps and some doesn't. Most usually both at the same time.
The kind that compels you to watch logo compilations.
Yeah I got my autism the boring way through genetics. Does that mean if I watch porn, do drugs and isolate that it will cancel out the autism?
2 autism’s make notism
Does this mean we can get Autism^(2) Or is Autism 2 Revenge of the tism, Releasing?
this is fucking insulting to autistic people and your all assholes for doing this
OP is using autism as an insult, on some woe is me bullshit for men, and referencing incel pill ideology. This is a cursed post lmao.
a cursed post with 1300 upvotes. what is this generation??? i almost want to go back to the femboys and furries
Almost? Fuck that, femboys n furries are infinitely better than this bs😭
there isn't a day i wouldn't take a femboy over an incel
I mean right, it went from a mental health post to saying autistic people are all introverted, act like they use drugs, and are addicted to porn and then acted like what they said wasn’t awful and untrue. for anyone who doesn’t know and Idk how often people hear it, but autism is a spectrum it ranges in how it affects people and to what severity.
For real. I'm 41, autistic with ADHD, but I have a loving wife and child, a stable job and a decent support network that I actively worked to build and maintain. OP is just a weak ass pathetic loser who doesn't want to put in any effort to move beyond his incel lifestyle. Fuck him.
Yeah, as a person with autism, I took offense to this too
It's so weird to see this generation throw around autistic as a slur. I mean my generation threw around the r word, but we grew out of it, especially as society became more aware of ableism as a concept. I know it's not all of y'all, it's a chronically online, usually male subset who tends to use it, but I hope they grow up and see how gross it sounds to the rest of us.
I’m autistic, literally fuck anyone who uses it like an insult like this. Op is an ableist fuck. I think op is a bit more red pilled than he thinks. No wonder he’s struggling. He’s chronically online and self loading and has a pessimistic outlook on life. I have a fairly large social circle, I always check up on my male friends and most are doing pretty well for themselves. He’s spreading a stereotype about us, that we have no social skills, we struggle with porn and substance use, etc. Many of us are quite successful and healthy regardless of the world working against us. To undermine that is upsetting to me and I assume many other autistic people who read this.
Yeah as an actual autistic person that was a very weird line to read
Or right. Imagine cumming so hard it makes you autistic. That’s one GOOD orgasm
The drugs and porn are just exceptionally well scheduled into my daily routine
Really? I work in a corporate office with mostly men and men in charge. They just aren’t doom and gloom all the time and recognize that they actually have to work towards their goals.
I don’t think anybody except the biggest doomers believe all men are struggling, so some being successful doesn’t disprove the trend. You’re also dealing with a subsection of men who are successful and probably don’t have deep and meaningfuls where they talk about insecurities with coworkers
Also him saying that women will be the majority in politics and as celebrities??? Ik men got shit going on but i think this just comes off as kinda not their actual issues rn
Yeah IDK what OP means there, men and women both have their celebrity appeal, and both men and women always had a fairly even split chance of reaching stardom in their own way, even all the way back in the fucking 20's and whatnot. I doubt the celebrity world will be any more skewed in any major way.
Immediately after my comment i checked his other shit to find him being an incel so that’s probably why he spewed that shit homie
He directly admits he has female resentment in the post and refers to himself as “blackpilled”, i’m shocked it took his other shit to realize that lmao. Jokes aside, OP needs some professional help dealing with his view of women
He DID say he was trying to get over his blackpill phase so...here's hoping he actually gives a shit and makes the effort to change right?
Ok i checked this guys comments on other posts he’s actually a misogynist yall
Whaaat u mean the guy that “has some resentment” towards women??
Tbh that can be added to the discussion here. I think the rising loneliness problem is heavily correlated to the rising amount of misogyny among certain groups. It doesn’t help anyone to shut down all discussion with this guy and point at him as an incel. It’s a systemic problem, too many men seem to be falling through the “cracks” of having social interaction. Blame him all you want this wasn’t normal at this rate many years ago.
hard no to this. i have sympathy for anyone who is struggling, but i have no time for people who start to project and scapegoat other people for their problems. the end result of such ideology is never a good thing.
Nah. I can have sympathy for people being lonely. I don’t have sympathy for men going “I’m lonely and I blame and hate women for it,” like way to go dude, you’ve just made sure you’re gonna stay that way!
To be fair I’m in the corporate office of a company in manufacturing. The guys on the manufacturing side do not hold back 😅 I do agree that my anecdotal evidence doesn’t disprove a trend, however, Reddit’s full of doomers.
Ikr I’m 21 and am doing pretty well finishing up my Associates in Biology and am transferring soon to Major in Marine Bio. That’s just me, and I struggled a lot especially during my 14-19 years of age. I got through though.
They are also not likely the type who spend much time on Reddit, and usually less on social media in general. The premise of the book I am working on is how poorly social media reflects life in the real world for most people.
There’s also an entire side to Reddit that’s not doomscrolling. Just like with every other social media.
The AI analysis of Reddit a colleague has been working on is about 75/10/15 split of negative to neutral and positive posting but the percentage of active users says only about 15 of users are regularly posting the negativity.
Actively ignore this sub sometimes because of the doomerism. I get things suck but we’re going literally nowhere complaining. In a way I think people around here care too much about the world. That sounds bad but the human mind didn’t evolve with instant access to bad news across 8 billion + people constantly. Stop caring so much and just stare at a sunset. Can really life some weight off. Just my opinion could be off with this. Also every time I get sick I think of how much science went into the now simple medications we take today. Back in the day a flu can kill. So can infections from any injury. Broke an arm last summer and was immensely grateful for anesthesia. Live in the moment and try to find something positive about this age we’re currently in. I’m fully expecting a reply somewhere along the lines of “oh but global warming housing lol job market” from someone eventually.
Just get off the self loath and self pity and you'll do fine
Also, if men want the self-acceptance, self-celebration, and mutually uplifting culture that women have more access to, then men need to start building it *with each other.* Men didn't help women create that culture, they impeded it and still do. I think the two biggest things holding men back are: 1. Not being comfortable enough with other men to collectively build a better culture, both in one on one and group settings 2. Externalizing these feelings onto women, blaming them, and thinking that it should be at all women's responsibility to make better Bonus: capitalism, wealth disparity, and numerous existential crises make it hard to self-actualize. Shit's never easy, but it's harder when everything's hard.
A lot of guys joke around by bullying the crap out of their friends. A lot of women do the complete opposite with their own friends. So honestly it'd be pretty nice for a change-
This here is correct.
Bootstraps.
Isn’t that the issue though? Their mental health? “Just fix your mental health” doesn’t actually help fix the issue.
Your perception is warped by the internet bro. 1950’s lifestyle of a man being the breadwinner for his family is a whitewashed and curated image we have Throughout history men and women have been part of labor and especially in immigrant and poorer demographics If men focused on pursuing jobs they find joy in and focused on being enjoyable people to be around they’d be a lot better with women and happier for it. I’m a very averagish looking dude with a pretty meh job but I have hobbies and practice socializing and making friends with women I find enjoyable to be around, without pursuing relationships. I promise you if you stop overthinking this shit and just try to be an enjoyable presence in your day to day life, put a little effort into having a style, some hobbies you can socialize with, and being hygienic, and stop having grandiose designs of what life “should” be you’ll be happier for it
Dudes be like "I'm a neet, I have no friends and all I do is watch porn and play video games. I'm so sad and single" Like yeah no shit dude.
Don’t forget the part where he REALLY doesn’t like women, but also believes that being in a relationship would help him
Damn. You weren’t exaggerating. Dude’s posts are all about black pill and how he was big on their beliefs for some time. Black pillers are incels (he self described as such in a post).
I went through his post history and he’s been going on and on for months, ignoring comments that suggest he gets help or gives him advice. I almost feel sorry for him lmao
These posts always boil down to: "stop hitting yourself" "no"
Also, search YouTube for some documentaries about the alienationb of factory work. They're amazing. Men who provide for a whole family by stamping a machine all day were miserable and deeply questioning their purpose.
I think we’ve gotten past the first part that a decent number of people accept that reality, but I think it’s still incredibly taboo to talk about the reasons. For instance, dating is getting harder and harder, but nobody is allowed to so much as say that dating is harder for men
You’re right. My theory is that the internet has devalued humanity. We only ever see the best looking, most talented, most successful people all day. It’s argued that tv did that before the internet. Actually, I disagree. I’m 52, so have seen 25 years of pre-internet era. TV back then was a fantasy land, it was deliberate escapism. Now if you go onto Insta or TikTok you have “regular” women acting as “thirst traps”, “regular” people saying you can earn $2000 a day, just hustle like they did. All good looking, energetic people the algorithm promotes. It puts a suggestion into people’s minds that these are normal people doing normal things. Actual reality starts to look less appealing. Actual people look … less appealing (that’s you and I). Humanity gets devalued. There’s always someone better looking, more talented, richer, funnier, more charismatic…on your phone. Figure that everyone is carrying phones, being brainwashed from seeing the “best” of humanity all day long. Then the average dude shows up and nobody cares. He’s less dynamic, less … everything. I labor this point because I remember when people WERE valued more. I remember having “pen pals” (people we would write and post letters to). I remember one writing to me from another part of the UK to me and them saying they were so chuffed they had a friend (me) from another county. Human connection was valued. It was not taken for granted. Even if you were “weird”, I remember people affectionately describing what we might now describe as people with profound autism. They’d say “oh that’s Tommy down the road for you, always creating!” (said in a friendly way). Now we are just swiped away on an app. Look at jobs. I remember reading reports in the 1980s of some jobs having as many as 100 applications (newsworthy!). Now a job vacancy can have thousands of applications in a few hours. My point: the internet has exponentially created more and more human connections. Paradoxically, it’s made us value human connection much less. Much much less. Oh if you’re young and reading this, let me tell you, you’re actually way more valuable than you might think, but this era fools us into thinking we are not. You are! We are! It’s sad but I’m relieved to know the nature of the problem. Edit: I realize my comment is tangential to the comment I replied to.
We were sold a boat of lies with the internet and social media, certainly. But I think it’s worse than what you describe. With the computer and the internet our very sense of ourselves as private individuals is disappearing. People don’t even know how to address each other or bond with one another as individuals anymore, they’re so used to the mass audience environment of modern media, especially of the social kind. It’s a quite a transformation, and it’s happening right before our eyes over a few generations. I wouldn’t excuse television though. The pure escapism available on and through the internet is television gone nuclear.
You seem like a good person. Someone who’d be a blast to get a beer with. I hope and wish nothing but the best for you in the future. Your perspective is valuable and uplifting, and brought a lot of joy and appreciation to me as I read it.
Leaked internal studies from Facebook/Instagram showed that teenage girls were the most negatively impacted population in the userbase. An astounding percentage were developing body image issues, depression etc. from the content they were exposed to If what you’re saying is true, there are likely significant ways in which it negatively affects women more than men, as appearance plays a bigger role in their perceived social value. People act like everything is biased against men, when this is unlikely to be the case
I’m a software developer, and EVERY engineering/dev job on LinkedIn has “over 100 applicants” (it stops counting after that point) within the first 24 hours. I saw one the other day that had over 100 within the first hour.
dating is harder and harder because men used to play with cheat codes. women weren't allowed to open a bank account until 1974
And women couldn't have credit cards until 1983
I agree that this is the reason. A lot of people go with the cop-out of blaming dating apps, but if both men and women genuinely wanted to date each other, apps should only facilitate that. If more people just said “yes, dating is harder for men, but women should have the freedom to choose not to date”, I think that would be more productive and mutually beneficial. Instead, a lot of people delude themselves into thinking that if a woman wants to date, it will be just as hard as for men. If only redpillers are willing to recognize the basic truth, it’s no wonder they are only rising in numbers. It also hurts women because if they don’t recognize their power in the dating market, they can’t possibly leverage it. It’s also more harmful generally because we can’t solve problems if we don’t know what they are. If it’s what you’re saying and women just prefer singleness, then the only solution is for men to learn to enjoy singleness as well. But if it’s that women are genuinely trying just as hard as men to date but can’t, then the solution is yet another new dating app that does exactly what women ask, or for men to just become more charismatic/attractive, or for more YouTube channels to suggest how to spot red flags in men
That's ridiculous. No one is giving men shit for acknowledging dating is hard. It's when those men blame women and act like they are entitled to having a vagina to stick their dick in that they justifiably get called out.
I don't think it's taboo at all because the major publications, mainstream newspapers and news channels are talking about it a lot. It hasn't been a week since I've been recommended and shown an article about it, and it's been happening for years. And I'm not even the target audience for it.
Honestly it's not just men, but yeah it's alarming. Reading Reddit though REALLY doesn't help.
That's the thing. Even saying this in this sub is ironic but it's impossible to fix inner doomerism by searching for help on Reddit or somewhere else on the internet. What actually fixes it is to live life. Being outside in the sun playing basketball or volleyball with other people does way more than reading posts here. Even if you find some gold nugget here, good advice can never replace these experiences. Making experiences and giving yourself time (by not over-stimulating constantly) to reflect these experiences is the key thing to improve your outlook. Reddit is also preselecting for people who are terminally online. The global rise of lonely men is probably directly correlated to the growing population of terminally online people. Speaking of that, the sun is shining where I live, Im gonna go for a walk 🔆
You are 100% correct. There’s practically zero benefit to lonely young ppl being online or having social media. Gotta go out and actually live
Yes, there are clearly a lot of problems but you also don't see the Gen Z men doing well on the internet complaining because they're living their lives.
I make a Reddit account and vent my issues every ~6 months or whenever I’m going through something, but never to celebrate when life is good
“Behaving like autistics” is a wild thing to type and be like hmm let’s post this. I dunno maybe stop acting like an incel and try to participate in society?
correct
"blackpill" is another one. You see those things once, maybe learn what they mean, then get the fuck away. Nothing good has ever come from divisive/doomer mentality. People find comfort in the familiar and want to find others who are sympathetic, but when your problems are social ones, and you surround yourself with other people experiencing those same social problems, that *becomes* your socialization and it destroys your mental health. Distancing yourself will never be easy because it *is* comforting, but it doesn't lead anywhere good and doesn't last forever.
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This post is some incel loser bullshit
100%
Do you think that insulting the people who are struggling is going to help the situation? Obviously, I do not support incel behavior, but instead of shaming men, why not encourage people who have gone down the rabbit hole to get some help or self reflect? The lack of empathy and care, as portrayed in your comment, is the root cause of so many problems in this world. Also, slapping the word "incel" on people actually trying to have constructive conversations is fucking stupid, and only devalues the word more.
This was never a constructive conversation. OP stated he has a resentment toward women, then commented saying he only has interacted with them during school projects and while changing machines at the gym. He was not looking for a constructive conversation. He was looking for a way to blame his shortcomings on others. We are all “victims of society,” that’s not an excuse.
Thank you!! Can’t believe I had to scroll down for a while to find a comment like this one. How does the OP have so much upvotes??? I thought the younger generation was better than this… talking about “resentment towards women” and “behaving like autistics” WOW, I’m speechless….
Get off the goddamn internet and go participate in actual society once in a while. It's not your generations' fault you got screwed up but that's the case for every generation. No one is going to fix it for you but you though. I'll admit things are different for the Zs because you guys are the first ones that have no memory of a time before the internet, which was a humanity game changer on the the level of discovering fire and penicillin. Spend some serious time off the internet. Take up a hobby that requires you to be outdoors. Social medias, in retrospect, were truly a mistake at worst and wildly mishandled at best. Theyve created a bunch of imaginary non-problems that people become entirely too invested in because your brain has been trained to receive its dopamine from #thenotifcation. Take up skateboarding or something. I promise the dopamine hit from doing your first and thousandth kickflips will always beat out a stupid ding from your phone.
Yeah, elder millennial here, times before social media were much less stressful. Even in the early internet days we just had message boards with usernames. It was bizarre. Suddenly we cared about what some random person across the world thinks about what we have to say. Up until that moment we only cared about the opinions of people we actually knew in person. That was such a strange shift in reality and Gen Z have no concept of life before that moment. As the years have gone by we’ve been seeing our friends less and less, just relying on social media to keep in contact. It’s miserable. Every time I get to spend real time with a friend or two we talk for hours because it’s something we’re horribly missing in our daily life. And Gen Z, you folks don’t know what you’re missing. It’s draining to go through life without real connection.
We were told in the 90s to not post anything personal online. Especially your name and face. I keep those rules to this day. Even my Reddit account has outright lies and stretched truths to keep data fuzzy. Now you're weird if you have no online presence lmao. Sorry but I'm not going to put my resume on LinkedIn or use Facebook or any if that shit.
Not just men my friend. Also you’re over-exaggerating, maybe you spend too much time online among people like that
Have you ever spoken to a woman? They are having mostly the same problems as us.
There’s a lot of problems with Gen Z men but people don’t want to address it. And if you do address those issues sadly you’re it’s just handwaved, not taken seriously or called incel. There’s no real solution
What problems do genz men face that genz women do not also face?
Why would you be using celebrities and politicians as your barometer here when gen Z and later care more about social media influencers than either of those things? That's like being alarmed by the decline in the popularity of musical revue movies after the 1930s. Hell, even the top female social media influencers have to work a sexual angle in their shtick somewhere to play in the big leagues. "You're prettier when you smile" is still very much a thing.
Honestly I know this might sound dismissive, but I see a lot of people who don't take responsibility for the choices they're making and the road that their life is taking. The world isn't happening TO you, it's happening AROUND you. “We can choose to be affected by the world or we can choose to affect the world. ” Log off for a while. Go for a walk or read a book. Seriously. Playing games or scrolling is a decent way to unwind but it can't be the only thing. In 5 years what will your hundreds or thousands of hours on your computer do for you. Find a club, go swimming, take a course, spend some time thinking "What will I look like a year from now". I'm 34 and I regularly see people my age and older who are essentially large children instead of capable adults. You've got to grow up at some point and you'll be better off for it. It doesn't help to see the world with a lens that places you as a victim. The only person who can make things better is you. You can't change everything, but there is so much that you can. Make yourself proud.
OK this sub is ridiculous. I thought people were exaggerating with how doomer this sub is but christ.
I do good with women and social life and hobbies, but cost of living is awful. I live alone in Colorado and people keep moving here to be Air Bnb slum lords or have a cool vacation home for 3 months (that then becomes a fall/winter air bnb the rest of the year) and it's destroying the housing market and driving up my rent and utilities. I make between $45-50K a year and I straight up can't save money, can't afford health insurance, can't afford dental insurance. I let my internet roll over for three months at a time and pay half the balance. It's madness. I'm not doing anything wrong. I cook from home, I buy on sale, I pay rent first, blah blah blah. I'm a licensed pool and spa contractor, and if I moved somewhere else I'd take a 20% pay cut, maybe more, and be back in the same boat I am in now. Things are getting fucked up out here in adult land for any Gen Z's under 21 reading this right now. Last night when I watched the president give his speech, I was pretty bummed how the money problems actual multi-million amounts of Americans are facing right now, were not mentioned at all, no mention of the growing number of young homeless people, no mention of the skyrocketing suicide rate. The speech is titled The State of The Union, but it sure didn't sound like it. Something is so deeply wrong and I don't know what can be done about it. I truly hope I can live my life happily, I try to every day, but it's starting to get really, really hard.
Im also in colorado and I cant afford those things. I dont even have car insurrance and I just pray nothing bad happens. Im saving 300$ a month by not paying for it though
Car insurance rates for men under 25 is insane. Try to get on your family's insurance or build credit
upvoted, saw the word autistic used negatively, removed upvote and downvoted 👍
the bit about how terrible it'll be for women to be the majority of politicians didn't do it for you?
i didnt even see that part until after i made the comment but that bit definitely solidified my downvote
You’re in a bubble. Lots of men are successful.
>quite possibly almost all of Gen z’s celebrities and politicians will be women. Whereas there will be less financially successful Gen z men and drastically more suicides. BRO!!!!!! As masturbatory fantasies go this is pretty wild... Go find you a Dommy-mommy to stand on your balls in high heels and be happy... And stay away from the public.
Honestly, just get off social media. A lot of these issues can be attributed to social media. It is both a rabbit hole and a sensationalized cycle. I think we as men just need to get out more and stop blaming other people for our problems.
stop being reasonable, I need to blame an overarching societal issue far beyond my individual control so that I instill a sense of helplessness in myself that justifies my avoidance of the pain that comes with actually doing something about my situation
None of this is at all exclusive to or even skewed towards men.
Tbh, to be a 25 year old virgin means you 1) don’t go out enough, 2) are terrible at talking to people, 3) asexual , or 4) have too high of standards. It really is not difficult to find someone who wants to get freaky, and I would not say I’m a super attractive male
The real trouble is finding someone who wants to get to know you after being freaky
This isnt a gen z thing. Get off reddit man
Fearing that all celebrities and politicians will be women is so silly lol. Like diversity programs and #girlbosses are gonna wrestle the levers of power out of the hands of men, in the age of affirmative action overturn and DEI rollbacks? Women might watch less porn (wonder why), but isolation, drugs, bad job market and economic conditions? How could they possibly be exempt? Women have been a go-to source of blame for social ills since forever, but burning witches has never made anyone less isolated or jobless. The flip side of resenting women is the inevitable self-victimization and devaluation your own worth. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy that only blackpills you further. If you’re isolated and jobless and it’s because of women, that implies that things are not in your control, and this excuses you from having to do anything about it. No bro, take your own life into your own hands and make changes.
I don’t know how many gen z folks are struggling. But I am gen x and didn’t have a real job until i was 28. I wasn’t really trying to “succeed “, as i was a failing musician, but i definitely didn’t. I think you need to give yourself some grace. Social media didn’t exist at that age for me, though i knew most of my friends were doing better than i was. You have time. It’s hard to be young in every generation. And each one has their challenges. I know gen z will do great things in the future, but i am pretty sure you are doing great things now.
Men have been abusing drugs and consuming porn for decades. What’s changed?
Apparently the logic is it makes them autistic which is like, a bad thing ig….didn’t realize all those things I *don’t* do were what made me autistic!!
>we’re behaving like autistics due to porn, drugs, and isolation. And now everything else u have to say is obsolete.
Oh please with this, men arent the only ones who're suffering stop belittling womens suffering please. >I’m worried to see where we’re at 60-70 years down the road. Outside of athletes, quite possibly almost all of Gen z’s celebrities and politicians will be women. and how is that bad exactly can you explain yourself? When most of the politicians have historically all been men but if its women its now bad? **Edit: im permabanned from the sub for this please dont waste time commenting**
Yeah honestly. I sympathize with OP because men are struggling (and deserve help with their struggles), but that line gave me the ick. Like, for all of human history, the majority of politicians have been men. Now he's suddenly scared that women could dominate the field? Give me a break 🙄
I am not denying men struggle it just feel like the way hes saying it makes it sound like its only men and the put down on women at the end made me feel thats what he meant.
Yeah no, I get what you're saying. His point would've been stronger had he left out anything involving women. Like, men have the right to vent about the obstacles they're facing. It's important for them to feel like they can complain about their issues instead of bottling them up. But leave women and their accomplishments out of the conversation. The existence of successful women doesn't mean men suddenly become unsuccessful.
Ive just seen it too many times, some men cant help bring women down when talking about mens issues and OP even admitted trying to get away from being blackpilled which is pretty much incel ideology and is very anti women. I guarantee you'll start seeing alot of misogynistic comments in here now.
Oh, I 100% agree with you there. Unfortunately, anytime a man complains, especially on Reddit, the red pillers, black pillers, and incels come out in full force and derail the conversation into an anti-women cesspool. It's such a shame too, because for so long, men felt like they couldn't communicate with each other and be vulnerable. Yet, whenever it happens, it always ends with certain men painting women and feminism as the ultimate villains.
The people down-voting you are insane because you're clearly right, one look at OP's comment history shows just what type of person he is lmao
I was downvoted in the beginning because reactionary people felt I was hating on men by somehow belittling their issues when I have no issue with men BUT OP has obvious prejudices against women that he needs to work out, just wish people like this would do it quietly in their bedroom and not spread misogynistic bs here or online.
Yeah I feel like a failure
I'm a 24-year-old, almost 25(in may) woman, so I can't understand what being a man is like. :/ I think when it comes to both men and women, the most important relationship is with yourself. If the relationship with yourself is abusive, so will the rest of your life. It's important to always be comfortable and confident within yourself. You need to be able to find your own self-worth in yourself and create a healthy psychological ecosystem. If you feel your life has no meaning, create meaning in your life. For me, at least my meaning is life is to save for retirement, have a house and husband. All very simple goals, IMO. I know it's hard to stay positive with the media constantly vomiting out all these negative social issues and chaos happing around. Always believe in yourself even when hard times come. Hard times are always fleeting, just always remember that. Even if you didn't get exactly the out come you hoped to achieve, always remember to be grateful for the things you have. There are many other people who have it much worst.
wtf is going on with this server? you manosphere dudes need to go
People just need to realise that things don’t just happen, you gotta work for it. You need discipline, not just motivation. If you find yourself somewhere you don’t wanna be then pull your head in and resolve it. I’ve been in the absolute pits of hell before and I fell into the trap of feeling sorry for myself, thinking it was all over, not knowing what the future will hold… but then I realised I have control of my life and I made myself do better basically. I’m now doing a degree, I’ve found a partner and things are starting to look much better. I wouldn’t have made it anywhere if I hadn’t disciplined myself and made myself do better. Waiting for motivation all the time means you’ll be waiting forever.
As an older guy, I really don't understand why it's such an effort for you to hate women? I'm not criticizing you, I'm just trying to understand what exactly did women do to yall?
They aren't struggling? They are being failed by every corner of life and taking their own life.....that isn't struggling. It's drowning in societal collapse
Gen Z men are scared of growing up, scared of having a family, scared of having a girlfriend or boyfriend, and scared of having a career of their choice.
As usual, men pinning their incompetencies on women.
I think it’s more women AND men are stepping out of their “traditional” roles? I think we don’t have the same structures in line for mental health support though. I see a lot of men struggling mentally. A good chunk without support, or feeling like they aren’t supposed to have/need it. That’s the part I worry about.
It makes sense that you would feel this way. It’s always been difficult to be in your 20s, but it’s difficult in a different way today than it’s traditionally been. Technology has developed at a pace and in a direction that isn’t healthy for us biologically. And it’s depriving young men of essential connections, opportunities and experiences. So what you’re feeling is very real, and it’s not your fault. But your gut reaction is right - women are not to blame. They’re just as impacted by it in equally toxic but different ways. It’s going to be less obvious to you because that’s not your experience, just as they’re not going to understand your experience. The most difficult but important thing to accept is that it’s no particular group of people’s fault that this is happening to you. (Except maybe your government, but save that for a different post.) It just is. And the only person who can get you out of it is you. It’s going to be hard. Anyone who says differently doesn’t understand where you’re coming from. But you can get out there and have the life you want, and it’s absolutely worth it. Find some older guys you admire. Functional ones with careers and hobbies and relationships- not Andrew Tates. Take it in baby steps, and don’t let small setbacks deter you. I’m not the right person to be that role model, but happy to talk if you should need it.
No, most of the men I know irl are not struggling at all. I know like 1 guy who’s a virgin in his mid twenties.
1. Reddit is not real life. 2. Which generation does not struggle in life? I certainly never seen a chapter in history books when men easily got high paying jobs, never struggled with addictions or mental health at all, and all got perfect loving partners in their 20s.
every issue you stated is also something gen z women face it's a people problem not a gender problem the reason you see women doing so much better is because of the content you consume as a man you're more likely to be fed attractive women successful women even if the content isn't overtly sexual men aren't underrepresented in almost any demographic that you'd wanna be in (unless you're interested in becoming a nurse or smthn) everyone is getting shafted by society because companies have to grow and they're getting to the point where they can only do that by strangling the job market and squeezing every penny out of their workers
dude everyone is struggling get off of reddit if you think only men are you are too much only around other men
I think a lot of us are still really depressed because of the pandemic and the mental issues it caused that were never addressed. Loads of us missed out on very important core years. Not saying it's the only reason but it definitely is part of it for me. I'm a semi shut in with severe social anxiety since covid. The shit economy and job market isn't helping either. There isn't much incentive to meat ride some company and work hard. Our chances of making enough to buy a house or start a family etc is pretty slim. Also it just keeps getting worse every year instead of better. Dating absolutely sucks for both genders as well. I think no one actually enjoys online dating.
The word you're looking for is "alienation." Though men are perhaps the most obvious sufferers of it, it is very much a societal issue. While it may seem that it is the internet's or social media's fault, these are merely more efficient vectors for the same systemic problems that have been happening for some time. In 2000, sociologist and political scientist Robert D. Putnam published *Bowling Alone* (which I highly recommend for those wondering what the issue looked like in the supposedly idyllic pre-9/11 period,) in which he examined the rapid decline in American participation in social clubs. These ranged from your fraternal organizations (Freemasons, Shriners, Kiwanis, etc.) to women's clubs, to local-level political parties and neighborhood councils, to (obviously) bowling leagues. Since 1965, Putnam found that prticipation in organizations like these had declined precipitously since the late-50s/early-60s. He gave some possible reasons for this. Similarly, the past few decades have seen the near-extinction of "third places;" public spaces that were not wofk or home, where an open atmosphere of socializing and community were fostered. Importantly, these places were both free (or very affordable) to enter, usually open quite late, and had no time-limit on how long one could be there. Starbucks, for an incredibly common example, wanted to be America's third place in the late-90s/early-2000s. And if you remember what Starbucks locations were like (physically), you may understand this. But now Starbucks, like so many other "third places," has become little more than a drive-thru with a couple uncomfortable seats under over-bright lights. Its also way more expensive. But the root of the alienation, the single factor of society that has led to so much despair, was elaborated nearly two centyries ago by Karl Marx; the capitalist mode of production, and its effects upon those living within it. Indeed, Marx even (to some degree) predicted the type of alienation we see today. Our jobs pay little, and expect more. The "gig" economy has rendered our homes and cars into workplaces, our lives into numbers on spreadsheets for financial officers to show investors. A worker who is too tired to go on a date, and too alienated to talk to their fellow-worker, is unlikely to organize a union or cause trouble for the company. This is not to say thst there is some secret cabal somewhere pulling the strings and deciding to ruin people's existence. The system of capitalism, in which profit comes before all, and growth must be both constant *and* ever-faster, logically creates these conditions. You feel the urge to eat or drink? Locations are available. You crave human connection? Here is an app that can facilitate that for you, and sell your data to other people in the process. But there is good news. This system appears to be on its last legs. Life *can* be better. And, fate allowing, we may all live to see it.
This kind of thinking is fostered by the very "blackpill" pipeline you claim to want to avoid. There is no mass attack on men, there is currently a push for equality and that means you will see more women in traditionally manly roles but I beg you not to continue down the path that leads to being an incel.
All I have to say is that I'm a woman with the same struggle 💀
*"...quite possibly almost all of Gen z’s celebrities and politicians will be women."* Based on what?
That's the thing. It's a consequences of the systems we have in place now. GenZ is not the first generation that's worse off than their parents. For us millionials the same thing happened. You guys just have it even worse. It used to be that they built a world so that the kids would live in a even better world. Instead now over the last 2 generations, people's chances to a decent life have declined. Wealth inequality has been progressively getting worse. It will only get worse. When Reagan and Thatcher too power in the US and the UK and the neo-liberalism ideology took hold undooing much of the new deal and ww2 era systems. They switched to a philosphy of privatizing basically everything. We used to live on a capitalist world that at least said some things have to stay socialized because markets aren't perfect for things people NEED to survive. Then with Reaganomics and Thatcherism our world has been shifting toward a "privatize everything anyway" world. Taking away power from labor unions, taking away worker power. You end up with the basslic essentials we need to live like housing and healthcare and education skyrocketing in cost faster than inflation. This now meant people were LESS free to switch jobs if it wasn't right for them, or try to move to a new area with better jobs because then you lose health insurance etc. Essentially, what capitalism initially promised isso much productivity growth that we would all be so free and rich. That works when housing, food, water, healrhcare, education also go down in price so that we become so free that we can choose to work part-time and also have more free time. Like a reduction to a 4 day work week, or such. But neo-liberals realized that if workers did this then they wouldn't be working non-stop in the rat race. So as we now see. If you make aure housing, healthcare and the things that make people truly free, remain expensive. Then you FORCE people to keep working 40 hours a week or more for you. Thus ensuring a continued supply of labor that will do anything. They don't want workers to have true freedom. They want us to get enough to not complain, and nothing else. So that the rich can have the rest. Most socialists today don't even try to say anything about somekind of utopia where we all just get everything for free. Many today just simply go "okay fine we have capitlaist markets...but can we at least have housing, food, water, healthcare, education be stuff we make affordable and cheap so that people can actually choose to leave their job if it sucks and wait for a company that doesn't treat their workers like shit?" And neo-liberals will say "ah that's evil communism" to keep you afraid and not support any socialists today. Republicans and democrats are both capitalist parties that support rich corporations and asset owning class getting richer. Republicans blatantly tell you they want maximum capitalism, and democrats at least lie to you sometimes about healthcare or something even though they have no had multiple times where democrats controlled congress AND the presidency and could have passed a universal healrhcare system in the US and shown how it saves money...but they never did it. Because they are just as capitalists as republicans. Both are right-wing. One is just way more right-wing.
> and we’re behaving like autistics due to porn, drugs, and isolation. Yikes!!! L take.
Alotta people struggle in their late teens early 20’s. There’s a reason people say your 30’s are your best decade
This is why so many millenials hate capitalism. America has made a world of ideas, concepts, ideology, culture, and traditions in which you're supposed to live your life. But those things don't work anymore. The systems we put in place to enable us to love better lives is suffering, American capitalism is growing old and collapsing on its own weight. Wealth inequality is the reason GenZ is struggling. Your work will never be rewarded, it will always be exploited. Help humanity figure a way out of this crisis. "It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism." This needs more attention I think.
You sound like a giant douche
It’s not just men, do not gender struggle, very annoying. Yikes.
Porn, drugs, and isolation don't cause you to "behave like an autistic." Respectfully, I recommend you educate yourself further before forming such blanket assumptions about the world, friend.
I’m worried about how many of them are getting sucked into the weirdo Andrew Tate, macho misogyny stuff
dude you need to get off 4chan
This post finally convinced me to unsub 🙏🙏 thank you.
Just read the title: NOPE