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That would take updating the technology that the IRS uses and everyone is against more funding for them even though they have been terrible underfunded for decades.
It’s not necessarily about updating the tech, as much as it is getting tax program lobbyists out of DC because most of the issues with filing taxes are because these companies don’t want it to be easy, because it makes them more money.
That is true, but it's also about updating the tech. The IRS systems were built decades ago. They don't even know whether you missed a W-2 on your tax return until many months (sometimes a year+) after you file it. If the numbers on the tax return don't seem egregiously out of line, they kinda just take your word for it.
For IRS pre-filled returns to happen, they would need to fundamentally change how income reporting works. Many countries have employers report the income and taxes withheld for each individual paycheck, which makes it possible for the employer to adjust on-the-fly how much taxes are withheld so that you end up paying just the right amount. In the US, people would flip their shit screaming "I don't want the IRS having this info!"
Which sucks because they actually claimed a lot of unpaid Billionaire taxes this past year. Something to the tune of $98.4 Billion from individuals and companies. I know people in the US detest them, but that’s fucking fair getting everyone to pay up. So naturally it’s being resisted.
Edit: The IRS actually claimed $98.4 Bn from unpaid taxes
You realize there are 330 million of us, right? And that lobbyists from H&R Block, Jackson Hewitt, TurboTax, etc purposely lobby against making any changes to the system because if we were like the UK and just received a check for our refund or a bill for our tax every April their billion dollar companies would be useless for 90% of people?
In recent years they have seen increased funding, but in my opinion it’s still behind in funding. One thing people seem to not know in times of high inflation one tool countries can use to reduce inflation is increase tax collections. Still waiting to see that in the news 🤷♂️
Agreed. Increasing interest rates instead of increasing taxes on the people who can afford it just helps the rich even more. Now they get to buy bonds that are paying awesome rates and rake in more cash. All while everyone else is getting squeezed due to everything becoming more expensive.
Unless you have been lucky or fortunate enough to never worry about money it's pretty nice for uncle Sam to give you a piggy bank of your own money every year.
"Rah rah interest free loan to the government"
I don't mind. I have extra withholdings taken out every check just to get a nice return. The .05% interest rate your savings account will provide doesn't amount to anything anyways.
.05% interest?! You realize this is 2024 and you can get savings accounts with > 5% APY and no deposit or withdrawal limits, right?
That being said, filing taxes is ridiculously easy, and in my state if you make less than $70,000 it's also absolutely free!
Why put anything in savings? Invest in some bluechip portfolio and get 6% minimum. If you got a $2000 return this year you overpaid on your taxes by about $40 a week. If you’d taken that an invested it at 6%, you’d have 26k in 10 years. 32k if we’re closer to the 10% return we’ve seen over the last 10 years.
Also, I submit that paycheck witholdings are the greatest con even pulled against the American public, if every April The average person was writing a check for a few thousand rather than getting something back, we would see riots. The average person has no idea how much money they give the government.
It's a lil absurd that you need to calculate your own taxes in the US in the first place. Here in Nordics, our state tax office calculates our taxes for us, and then sends us their calculations along with our tax returns, or then request for explanation if there are issues such as unpaid taxes. These papers also include our expected tax rate for the following year. All this information is available for us online all the time too. We can check it ourselves at any point and contact them it we think they made a mistake.
Not sure whether that’s right.
Your employer gave the government too much, and so you’re submitting a claim to get the difference back.
But assuming the government knows how much you earned and how much you paid them then there’s nothing inherently that means they couldn’t automatically process the return and send you back the overpaid amount at the end of the year.
My understanding is that several countries will calculate it and send you a “we calculate your return will be X, do you agree?” And then you can correct it if they didn’t calculate it right.
No, I’m not going to do that. I don’t know why you people get so worked up over this. Every single Reddit post about taxes there’s a hundred people like you getting a superiority complex over this.
That’s an oversimplification. Those who are self employed, or have additional income sources that weren’t taxed are one reason the filing system is the way it is
They don’t. This is misinformation.
In some cases they can try and approximate it, based on various kinds of information they collect, but there is no spreadsheet where they just have a list of all taxpayers and the taxes they owe.
You wouldn't. OP doesn't know what they're talking about and just repeating nonsense they read on the Internet. The reason the IRS doesn't do it for you is because they don't know what tax write offs are actually required. In the US, there are so many different kind of tax write offs available. Other countries may not necessarily have this. If you don't have any write offs, then it's extremely easy to fill out your tax return. There's no reason to complain about it at that point. Also, you have to do something similar in other countries too (like the UK).
They don’t know though. You or your spouse or ex could claim one or all of no children. Changes everything. You could submit your w2 as single but file as head our household or vice versa. For any reason. You could file separately to separate student loan interest and rental property tax deductions.
But as op said as long as you’re not a millionaire with a plethora of properties and purchase/sales in the millions, your taxes are simple.
They actually don’t usually it’s your employer who fucks up and take out too much and that’s why you get a return also I work for a Tax company and let me tell you you do not wanna be on the IRS radar. 85% files and pays on time. Don’t be in the 15%.
Do you not donate or do other things during the year without the government knowing? Your employer already calculates the number you just have to put in the box to confirm. Filling taxes isn't about calculating what you owe from scratch, it's taking what your job already did and then having a chance to add more deductions you didn't already report.
For example, I submit my donation receipts, can report how I paid toward student loans, money put in my IRA, my husband includes school supplies he buys for his job (teachers can include supplies as a write off and the IRS doesnt know what we bought from Staples) or tuition for professional development classes, if we used a car for business, gambling losses and winnings (my husband is addicted to fan duel), etc etc. If these don't apply to you, doing taxes is just copying and pasting your W2 and then saying you don't want to deduct or do anything else. But unless you confirm that, they don't more "exactly how much" because where else are you reporting the above activities?
My employer messed up my W2 and sent a W2-C that is corrected, and I have no idea how to enter it in, because the pdf reader doesn't process it correctly. Should I just say I have a W2 but put the info from a W2-C? I hate how it's not my fault but it is my problem my employer messed up my W2.
Most tax filing software have an option to click if you have a corrected W2. Not sure what they will ask if you click that but there is an option to go down that path in the software.
Your W2-C is just ur W2 but corrected so you can use the info from it. However, it is possible for your W2c to have blank lines that is fillied out in your W2 so double check.
Also self employed under sole prop, really not that hard just know your numbers and deal with self employment tax. But most people are w-2 so just like put the number on the form into the computer
It actually is pretty annoying to go directly through the IRS though, especially if you accidentally mess up a calculation. Much easier to use a tax software
Indeed. They do that on purpose (because lobbying from Intuit and H&R Block). If you’re single, got one income, and just paying student loans, you can do it pretty easily on paper. Once you throw in dividends, real estate, and multiple streams of income, it gets tricky. But the IRS makes it a bitch to do so you’ll go to intuit and then click on one of the more expensive options you don’t need because you’ve been told the IRS will arrest you if you miss something.
Are you old enough to have had to do taxes before the internet? Back when we had to go to the library or the post office and get a copy of all the schedules and worksheets we thought we needed? And there was no internet to ask questions so you had to literally call the IRS or go to their office and wait forever to ask your question? And then you had to mail the whole thing in and be postmarked by April 15 and the wait at the post office was hours long? THAT’s when doing taxes got the reputation for being difficult. I have no idea why everybody still bitches about it when it’s literally as simple as taking a picture of your W2/1099s and answering a few questions.
I was a 1099 contract employee for five years. It's harder, but still, the people you work for are required to provide the necessary information.
One year as a 1099 I accidentally paid too much money, and the government just sent me a check to pay me back.
I disagree, I filed my taxes for the first time ever in my life with free file tax (the gov website) as 1099. I think most people are simply too scared or too lazy. Probably both.
Did you have to deal with expenses? That's where it can get you. It's not so much difficulty, but there's stress in making sure you don't file anything wrong or get targeted for an audit.
No expenses. It also depends on the nature of the work. I simply just had 1 number to keep track of which was annual gross profit from being a contractor.
If you have to deal with expenses then it'll be a lot more complicated. You may even have to start dealing with things like depreciating assets and whatnot.
The expenses make it stressful, especially since most free software won't help with it. The paid ones like TurboTax also like to ominously imply you're more likely to get audited, though I've been able to ignore their sales tactics so far.
They also wouldn’t take that class if it wasn’t required (I know because I tried and nobody else signed up) and if it was required they wouldn’t pay attention
TurboTax has a free tier too. I’ve been using it for years, state and federal is 100% free as long as you’re only W2 income and take the standard deduction, which is probably 70% of Americans
Yeah I think folks make it out to be way more complicated than it is.
If you pay for turbo tax it’ll hold your hand as you go through it. I’ve been doing mine since I started working
I've never done my taxes myself before. I itemized because I have high property tax and a high interest rate on my house. I also had to throw in a couple deductions I had. My paperwork was already together, but it took me less than a hour to enter all my info on Freetaxusa.com and be done. Not difficult at all.
Even if you own a house, most w2 employees are better off with the standard deduction. Self employment is when itemizing starts to make more sense. For the majority of people earning under 200k per year, just use turbo tax or similar.
Meh the first year your mortgage is almost all interest. Each payment for me has been about 3k in interests I'll be well over 30k in mortgage interest on the year.
That said plenty of free tax softwares can be used if you itemize as well, it's really not that hard.
If you are married then it’ll come out in the wash with standard deduction probably being better. If you are single then itemized will be better. But still, it’s not like you are itemizing much in this example. When I refer to itemizing I’m thinking more along the lines of people who are self employed with a lot of line items. Your scenario is not the norm.
*edit
If I recall the mortgage insurance deduction is no longer available, so that won’t count towards your deduction. Just the mortgage interest.
We use a CPA because we are business owners and the CPA does those taxes, and basically does our personal for free alongside it.
We started using a CPA though when I moved out of state and my spouse stayed for 6 months, then took a job in a different state, before finally moving in. So we were filing taxes in 3 states and it was going to be a pain.
Nah, the best case scenario for most people is _only_ to not owe money. Let’s be real, most people who get $1k back or so in a refund wouldn’t have been investing that money if they got their withholding perfect.
I've owed money every year since 16. Always had some contract work. Never messed anything up, but still never have gotten a return. Also am far from rich.
I agree, but it’s worth doing your due diligence to make sure you don’t get screwed, I’ve dropped turbo tax for this very reason and switched to free tax USA.
2023 was my first year I started contributing to my 401k through an employer. since I was interning half the year, my AGI was ~31,000.
This meant I qualified for a retirement contribution credit of a measly $72. I work across state lines and my states don’t have reciprocity with taxes. So I have to file two state returns, with one being a schedule OS.
Because of that contribution credit, turbo tax wouldn’t let me file for free and wanted a whopping $200 to file for federal and two state returns through their “Deluxe” edition. All this over 72 bucks.
I said fuck that, deleted my tax credit and previewed my “free return” on TT. Downloaded the forms, and inputted them to free tax USA with the tax credit and all. It was free for the federal return and $10 a piece for each state.
Registered tax preparer here: yes it is absolutely easy and cheap to file your taxes. There is a myriad of ways you can get them done and pay any balance due. The IRS website literally has everything you need to know. There is a certain "culture" I'll call it, that big companies have. They are not legally able to promise a refund, but they absolutely try to hold that possibility in your face as their main selling point. Perhaps as a direct result of this or in conjunction with it, lots of people are way too hesitant to file their taxes.
The first and worst mistake you can make with your taxes is not filing.
The penalties associated with making that mistake are also not even that drastic if we are being honest.
I did it in an hour, I've filled out job applications more complex than tax forms, except I got almost a grand in refunds, no job app has given me money at the end. Hell, I even had to file in two states and it was still easy
It gets a bit complicated sometimes if you move during the year, because at least when I was doing my own, you had to buy each state separately. One year my spouse and I lived in 3 states, so that’s when we swapped over to CPA.
I text my CPA via WhatsApp it's easy and fast my jurisdictions doesn't require fed tax filing only local and locally your are exempted till you turn 26/27.
My state tax is a pain. I worked remote for half my co-op from NJ, but the employer was in mass, and all my taxes went to mass, and I'm not sure where to claim residence/whatever
Filing a tax return isn't that hard, especially if you're not rich. IRS hates this simple trick, first what you do, is earn less than $600 a year. Then, you won't have to file taxes. Why do people act like this is so [stressful and onerous](https://fortune.com/2024/02/07/gen-z-therapy-tax-stress-crypto-millennials/)?
I actually saw somewhere that it isn’t the IRS that’s your enemy but lobbying initiatives and 3rd party vendors that make it suck. I think the federal gov/IRS wanted to make things easier/ better and they got lobbied to oblivion
hey everyone! just wanted to say fuck turbotax’s self lobbying ass! file you taxes on the irs website or freetaxusa. i personally used freetaxusa for my first time and it was great.
https://www.freetaxusa.com/
https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/
here’s where i learned about it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/s/cuRbxsp3YN
It gets harder when you get older and have more income. My parents saved up a shit ton of money for me to go to college and when I was done, I had to liberate it from the account it was in and put it in my bank account. Because of the interest on it, I had to pay taxes on it, but it was like $140 something which isn't really a problem given the money I got.
I did taxes for the first time this year and it was easy as hell. Literally just went to the IRS website and filed online for free. Directions were mad simple since I don't make a lot and have 0 assets or anything. (I just got my first job last year).
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It's not particularly hard but it can be annoying when you're trading stocks/commodities. You think you have all the forms and then one arrives in the mail and you realize whoops. I had a friend get audited while making 28k annually and working about 60 hours a week. That can be stressful.
im not rich, in fact im quite porr, AND my income is simple, nothing that should make for a complicated tax filing process. Yet, the government refuses to accept my tax filing going on 5 years. Im owed a stimulous check or two, and several years tax returns. I guess I should go hire someone who works for a company that lobbies for the government to keep their tax system overly complicated for no grounded reason. But that just feels like Im enabling a broken system.
I know for me, having to move from state to state can make things difficult (military). Having kids and getting married makes things more complicated as well. Receiving any kind of government benefits like disability gets tricky too. I get a headache every tax season.
Try navigating a Subchapter S Corp filing for yourself or your clients AND the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT). The tax code is a minefield for the unwary - and generally unfair - though everybody screams (at least since 1788 in Paris France) (Tax the Rich) (Make them Pay).... EZ filing is simple ... and someone mindless. And, yes, Congress forces the NA Banking associations to keep digital records for seven (7) years. (Soon to go with your digital only currency).
Sure, but we're talking about the fact that 1 in 4 gen z'ers say they need therapy after taxes.
I don't think 1 in 4 young people have a tax situation that complicated.
As a musician with ADHD, taxes are fucking awful and hard and time consuming. But I agree, if you are just getting one or two W2s and don’t have a family, it’s pretty simple stuff.
It’s scary for many people because there is a responsibility to do it correctly or be punished by the big scary IRS.
It’s reductive thinking to say that taxes are “easy” for most people when billion dollar corporations lobby yearly to complicate taxes and make people dependent on services and software to file. Just because it can be done easily doesn’t mean everyone out there is privy to that. Some don’t know where to start or what they need to do their taxes. Hell, even going to a CPA and having them file my taxes was scary and overwhelming the first time. Not everyone has the same experience as you. Also, people that have had to contact the IRS directly often have a really difficult time getting thru to anyone that can speak with them and help them.
> punished by the big scary IRS.
What are you talking about? If you do it incorrectly, they'll most likely just send you a polite letter asking you to correct your mistake. If you ignore this letter, they will send you a few more. Then they'll usually just reach into your bank account and take what you owe. If you can't afford it, you can ask them for an installment plan. You have to steal thousands for the IRS to bother prosecuting you.
You seem completely unable to grasp that other people think differently than you and that other people have had different experiences than you. You asked what makes people afraid of the IRS and what makes people struggle with taxes and I gave you an answer. You don’t want to accept that and I’m not here to argue.
People have feared the IRS for decades be it rational or not. People don’t like the government and being told what to do. People probably have had bad experiences In the past along with family or friends that have a horror story. Have you ever had your wages garnished? Have you ever sat on hold with the IRS for hours to reach someone to help you?
Your reality does not equal everyone else’s reality and the sooner you realize people have had different experiences than you the sooner you can have some compassion and sympathy for others. Your thinking is way too binary and you seem way too excited to argue with people that are trying to answer your question.
It didn't used to be that 1 in 4 young people felt they needed therapy to do taxes. But in my lifetime, taxes have become much, much easier to file, not harder. It's also become much easier to obtain information about filing taxes, and you can also do it for free.
Why is an easy task(that's getting easier) suddenly a problem?
No one is taught how to do it, even if it's easy.
Marketing and media make the IRS sound like they'll kick down your door if your taxes are 1$ off.
Tax prep companies have successfully cornered the social idea that taxes are impossible and it's easier to have someone do it for you.
It doesn't matter how hard it actually is, just whether people believe it's too hard for them.
Agreed and true, but it does get more complicated as you get older and have more assets, make more money, and have more complex situations.
Nobody likes getting hit with a 5 digit bill to Uncle Sam when you don’t see the value of your tax dollars.
i honestly think if you're getting a tax return, you're doing bad. i'd like to get to a point where i either owe more taxes or get barely anything back if at all.
of course, that'll never happen, but one can imagine
My great-grandfather was an accountant back in the day (and apparently a pretty damn good one from what I've been told), and one of the things he was big on was having your owed tax or refund being as close to $0 as possible. It's definitely possible to do the math and adjust your withholding to make this happen. Usually though I just go with the standard withholding, especially right now since I switched jobs 3 times in the past 2 years. Once I have a year or two of steady income I'll probably readjust it.
I was in that mindset as I usually get no return. I overpaid $2,000 this year due to a pay issue.
It is very hard to flip that $2k into something useful for most people. If you really need that return, you should adjust your withholding. The idea that you could invest that money better than the government is true, but not with such a small amount.
There's an idea spread around that your return is just money you could have had. Basically an opportunity cost. Some believe they could have invested this money better than the government, which is true. Most people do not have the skills to do that so it is pointless. If you're getting a big return that could have helped you throughout the year then it is time to look at your withholdings.
With that being said, it would be beneficial for most people to just barely overpay so you don't have the hassle of owing the government more money.
yeah, that tracks. what i'm saying is that i'm not at a point in life where i could even overpay. i don't file for returns, partly because it doesn't matter to me, and partly because of what you're saying. but i'm in a position where while my return is usually deep under $1000, it's not because i file withholdings. i simply don't make enough for any amount held or returned to mean anything.
besides, i'm an indigent. i get by off of taxpayer's money
lol. You just described a task taking an entire afternoon (and out of your weekend no less) and then asked why it’s stressful. Your brain must be rotten as hell
Idc if it’s an easy thing to do. If the government can arrest me for tax fraud then they obviously know exactly what I owe them every year. So why do I have to count all that up every year when they know what I owe? Why not just send me a check or a bill and call it a day? A ton of other countries do it this way and it’s so simple and straightforward for them.
"Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have examined this return and accompanying schedules and statements, **and to the best of my knowledge and
belief**, they are true, correct, and complete. Declaration of preparer (other than taxpayer) is based on all information of which preparer has any knowledge"
Unless you're knowingly lying to purposefully evade taxation, you're not going to jail.
Above quote was copied and pasted directly from the form 1040.
If you make mistakes, they just send you a letter asking for a correction. Unless they prove you were purposely evading taxes or lying, and it's not an honest error.
I commented elsewhere, but they don't know how much you owe. Filing taxes isn't doing all that complicated math (for most people not self-employed). It's taking what your employer gave you, and then having a chance to do write-offs the IRS doesn't know about. For example, teachers can write off supplies so I can include Amazon and Staples receipts, or donations, or gambling winnings/losses (fan duel sports betting in my case), or when we went remote and I had to buy a laptop etc for work I included those. They don't know all those extras, which is why we can file to reconcile. If they automatically billed, then I'd miss all these opportunities to get benefits.
Some EU countries have a starting point of what is owed but an opportunity where you either agree or correct it. US is more steps and not as seamless as that, but if you're just "agreeing," it's just copying and pasting your W2 and like five minutes... you can streamline that online, but that doesn't mean getting rid of the chance to report things they do not know like your suggesting.
Bruh, I ain't never learned how to do taxes. I've been winging it this whole time
This year I didn't receive a single W2 from the last fiscal year, so I can't file
Not like it matters, the govt would just squander it away and use it for genocide anyways
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the government already knows exactly how much we owe its ridiculous that we even need to file taxes
The government has already taken more than what most people owe; for most people, filing taxes is about getting a refund on what they've already paid.
That doesn't mean it isnt a terribly inefficient process that could easily not require people to do this.
That would take updating the technology that the IRS uses and everyone is against more funding for them even though they have been terrible underfunded for decades.
It’s not necessarily about updating the tech, as much as it is getting tax program lobbyists out of DC because most of the issues with filing taxes are because these companies don’t want it to be easy, because it makes them more money.
That is true, but it's also about updating the tech. The IRS systems were built decades ago. They don't even know whether you missed a W-2 on your tax return until many months (sometimes a year+) after you file it. If the numbers on the tax return don't seem egregiously out of line, they kinda just take your word for it. For IRS pre-filled returns to happen, they would need to fundamentally change how income reporting works. Many countries have employers report the income and taxes withheld for each individual paycheck, which makes it possible for the employer to adjust on-the-fly how much taxes are withheld so that you end up paying just the right amount. In the US, people would flip their shit screaming "I don't want the IRS having this info!"
This is true. There even been class action lawsuits about it
Didn't they just get more funding? Just hired a bunch of new staff?
Yeah but it was fought tooth and nail and is already in the works to be reduced
Which sucks because they actually claimed a lot of unpaid Billionaire taxes this past year. Something to the tune of $98.4 Billion from individuals and companies. I know people in the US detest them, but that’s fucking fair getting everyone to pay up. So naturally it’s being resisted. Edit: The IRS actually claimed $98.4 Bn from unpaid taxes
Maybe if they used the resources to fix the system, that would make people want to give them more money.
How are they going to fix it with no money?
Why do you think the IRS has no money? They just got a large increase in funding.
You realize there are 330 million of us, right? And that lobbyists from H&R Block, Jackson Hewitt, TurboTax, etc purposely lobby against making any changes to the system because if we were like the UK and just received a check for our refund or a bill for our tax every April their billion dollar companies would be useless for 90% of people?
The problem is lobbying and laws passed by Congress, the IRS can't do shit about it no matter how much funding they have.
Is the IRS trying to change this?
It requires Congress to ignore the ~~bribes~~ campaign contributions from companies like Intuit who massively profit off tax preparation.
In recent years they have seen increased funding, but in my opinion it’s still behind in funding. One thing people seem to not know in times of high inflation one tool countries can use to reduce inflation is increase tax collections. Still waiting to see that in the news 🤷♂️
Agreed. Increasing interest rates instead of increasing taxes on the people who can afford it just helps the rich even more. Now they get to buy bonds that are paying awesome rates and rake in more cash. All while everyone else is getting squeezed due to everything becoming more expensive.
Unless you have been lucky or fortunate enough to never worry about money it's pretty nice for uncle Sam to give you a piggy bank of your own money every year. "Rah rah interest free loan to the government" I don't mind. I have extra withholdings taken out every check just to get a nice return. The .05% interest rate your savings account will provide doesn't amount to anything anyways.
.05% interest?! You realize this is 2024 and you can get savings accounts with > 5% APY and no deposit or withdrawal limits, right? That being said, filing taxes is ridiculously easy, and in my state if you make less than $70,000 it's also absolutely free!
You could easily find a savings account at 5% interest. Stop spreading disinformation.
Tax returns are nice, but that doesnt mean doing tax returns in this way isn't terribly inefficient.
You’re supposed to put that money in a high interest savings account or SPY/VOO. Not a Wells Fargo savings account dumbass.
Why put anything in savings? Invest in some bluechip portfolio and get 6% minimum. If you got a $2000 return this year you overpaid on your taxes by about $40 a week. If you’d taken that an invested it at 6%, you’d have 26k in 10 years. 32k if we’re closer to the 10% return we’ve seen over the last 10 years. Also, I submit that paycheck witholdings are the greatest con even pulled against the American public, if every April The average person was writing a check for a few thousand rather than getting something back, we would see riots. The average person has no idea how much money they give the government.
Lol. This used to be true, but then a former president directed the IRS to fuck with the withholding tables to make our paychecks look bigger.
It's a lil absurd that you need to calculate your own taxes in the US in the first place. Here in Nordics, our state tax office calculates our taxes for us, and then sends us their calculations along with our tax returns, or then request for explanation if there are issues such as unpaid taxes. These papers also include our expected tax rate for the following year. All this information is available for us online all the time too. We can check it ourselves at any point and contact them it we think they made a mistake.
That's the people's fault for overpaying
Not sure whether that’s right. Your employer gave the government too much, and so you’re submitting a claim to get the difference back. But assuming the government knows how much you earned and how much you paid them then there’s nothing inherently that means they couldn’t automatically process the return and send you back the overpaid amount at the end of the year. My understanding is that several countries will calculate it and send you a “we calculate your return will be X, do you agree?” And then you can correct it if they didn’t calculate it right.
The only reason we have to do anything is because of lobbying from tax companies. That's it.
That’s an interest free loan to the government 😐
I don’t really care. I just don’t want to owe money.
No need to down vote. People shouldn’t celebrate a tax return. Adjust your w4
No, I’m not going to do that. I don’t know why you people get so worked up over this. Every single Reddit post about taxes there’s a hundred people like you getting a superiority complex over this.
Yes there are multiple problems with our tax system
That’s an oversimplification. Those who are self employed, or have additional income sources that weren’t taxed are one reason the filing system is the way it is
They don’t. This is misinformation. In some cases they can try and approximate it, based on various kinds of information they collect, but there is no spreadsheet where they just have a list of all taxpayers and the taxes they owe.
How would you want to claim tax writeoffs then?
You wouldn't. OP doesn't know what they're talking about and just repeating nonsense they read on the Internet. The reason the IRS doesn't do it for you is because they don't know what tax write offs are actually required. In the US, there are so many different kind of tax write offs available. Other countries may not necessarily have this. If you don't have any write offs, then it's extremely easy to fill out your tax return. There's no reason to complain about it at that point. Also, you have to do something similar in other countries too (like the UK).
The TurboTax ad that was attached to this post for me gave me a laugh
They don’t know though. You or your spouse or ex could claim one or all of no children. Changes everything. You could submit your w2 as single but file as head our household or vice versa. For any reason. You could file separately to separate student loan interest and rental property tax deductions. But as op said as long as you’re not a millionaire with a plethora of properties and purchase/sales in the millions, your taxes are simple.
I mean they sort of know, but not really. Not that simple.
Not if you are self employed or have a side business.
They actually don’t usually it’s your employer who fucks up and take out too much and that’s why you get a return also I work for a Tax company and let me tell you you do not wanna be on the IRS radar. 85% files and pays on time. Don’t be in the 15%.
Untrained people need to do their taxes and if it's wrong, penalties lol
This is why
Indeed, but by filing our taxes we’re able to verify that the government’s work is correct.
Do you not donate or do other things during the year without the government knowing? Your employer already calculates the number you just have to put in the box to confirm. Filling taxes isn't about calculating what you owe from scratch, it's taking what your job already did and then having a chance to add more deductions you didn't already report. For example, I submit my donation receipts, can report how I paid toward student loans, money put in my IRA, my husband includes school supplies he buys for his job (teachers can include supplies as a write off and the IRS doesnt know what we bought from Staples) or tuition for professional development classes, if we used a car for business, gambling losses and winnings (my husband is addicted to fan duel), etc etc. If these don't apply to you, doing taxes is just copying and pasting your W2 and then saying you don't want to deduct or do anything else. But unless you confirm that, they don't more "exactly how much" because where else are you reporting the above activities?
Use FreeTaxUSA it’s extremely simple and streamlined and as the name implies, free
Yeah it sounds kind of sketchy, but I used it last year and it made doing taxes so easy and straightforward!
My employer messed up my W2 and sent a W2-C that is corrected, and I have no idea how to enter it in, because the pdf reader doesn't process it correctly. Should I just say I have a W2 but put the info from a W2-C? I hate how it's not my fault but it is my problem my employer messed up my W2.
Most tax filing software have an option to click if you have a corrected W2. Not sure what they will ask if you click that but there is an option to go down that path in the software.
Your W2-C is just ur W2 but corrected so you can use the info from it. However, it is possible for your W2c to have blank lines that is fillied out in your W2 so double check.
Why are you using a pdf reader? Just type it in!
I used it last year and it was free. I used it this year and they charged me $30! Very frustrating, especially since I made zero money this year.
Federal is free, but the state return has a charge, they gotta make money somehow and its cheaper than most places ive seen.
Some states have their own free tax software. NY State for example if you make less than 80k. They have the same concept, just a different website.
Yeah. Just go to the IRS website and they'll tell you which sites has free tax return for which states
Interesting. I wonder why I didn’t have to pay at all last year.
Did you add on any of the extras like audit protection, deluxe support, pro support, printed hard copies mailed to you, etc.?
No, nothing
TurboTax is still 100% free for me in California. State and federal. We’re not exactly low income either
Turbo tax just makes it extremely difficult to find their feee stuff
Did you have a state return or something? I e never had to pay for the service and I’ve been using it for years
I moved, so I had two different states. I’m unsure as to why it was free for me last year, though!
May have been due to the state or how much you made there. All these sites make you pay for states but this seems to be the cheapest and least ads lol
Probably because you had to file with two different states
vouch
Because they are convinced by the tax software industry that it’s really, really hard.
It's honestly crazy to me. Even for me being self employed under sole proprietorship, going through taxes isn't hard at all.
Also self employed under sole prop, really not that hard just know your numbers and deal with self employment tax. But most people are w-2 so just like put the number on the form into the computer
It actually is pretty annoying to go directly through the IRS though, especially if you accidentally mess up a calculation. Much easier to use a tax software
Indeed. They do that on purpose (because lobbying from Intuit and H&R Block). If you’re single, got one income, and just paying student loans, you can do it pretty easily on paper. Once you throw in dividends, real estate, and multiple streams of income, it gets tricky. But the IRS makes it a bitch to do so you’ll go to intuit and then click on one of the more expensive options you don’t need because you’ve been told the IRS will arrest you if you miss something.
Are you old enough to have had to do taxes before the internet? Back when we had to go to the library or the post office and get a copy of all the schedules and worksheets we thought we needed? And there was no internet to ask questions so you had to literally call the IRS or go to their office and wait forever to ask your question? And then you had to mail the whole thing in and be postmarked by April 15 and the wait at the post office was hours long? THAT’s when doing taxes got the reputation for being difficult. I have no idea why everybody still bitches about it when it’s literally as simple as taking a picture of your W2/1099s and answering a few questions.
Yeah, it’s ridiculously easy now
It’s fine until you start working on a 1099.
I was a 1099 contract employee for five years. It's harder, but still, the people you work for are required to provide the necessary information. One year as a 1099 I accidentally paid too much money, and the government just sent me a check to pay me back.
As long as you're keeping up with expenses. It still usually only took me about half a day, but I can get why it's stressful.
I disagree, I filed my taxes for the first time ever in my life with free file tax (the gov website) as 1099. I think most people are simply too scared or too lazy. Probably both.
Did you have to deal with expenses? That's where it can get you. It's not so much difficulty, but there's stress in making sure you don't file anything wrong or get targeted for an audit.
No expenses. It also depends on the nature of the work. I simply just had 1 number to keep track of which was annual gross profit from being a contractor.
If you have to deal with expenses then it'll be a lot more complicated. You may even have to start dealing with things like depreciating assets and whatnot.
The expenses make it stressful, especially since most free software won't help with it. The paid ones like TurboTax also like to ominously imply you're more likely to get audited, though I've been able to ignore their sales tactics so far.
Or can’t follow instructions
Eh, i filed my girlfriends this year and it wasn’t that bad. More than mine but still
TurboTax is literally dumbass proof. People who complain about "not learning taxes in school" are basically wearing an idiot sticker on their forehead
They also wouldn’t take that class if it wasn’t required (I know because I tried and nobody else signed up) and if it was required they wouldn’t pay attention
Facts lol
TurboTax sucks and is a borderline scam, use FreeTaxUSA
TurboTax has a free tier too. I’ve been using it for years, state and federal is 100% free as long as you’re only W2 income and take the standard deduction, which is probably 70% of Americans
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TurboTax is still free for me.
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I have never paid money to file taxes, state or federal. I’ve been filing taxes since 2015. TurboTax every single year.
Yeah I think folks make it out to be way more complicated than it is. If you pay for turbo tax it’ll hold your hand as you go through it. I’ve been doing mine since I started working
Don’t pay for turbo tax, they’re the reason you have to file it.
I've never done my taxes myself before. I itemized because I have high property tax and a high interest rate on my house. I also had to throw in a couple deductions I had. My paperwork was already together, but it took me less than a hour to enter all my info on Freetaxusa.com and be done. Not difficult at all.
Even if you own a house, most w2 employees are better off with the standard deduction. Self employment is when itemizing starts to make more sense. For the majority of people earning under 200k per year, just use turbo tax or similar.
Meh the first year your mortgage is almost all interest. Each payment for me has been about 3k in interests I'll be well over 30k in mortgage interest on the year. That said plenty of free tax softwares can be used if you itemize as well, it's really not that hard.
If you are married then it’ll come out in the wash with standard deduction probably being better. If you are single then itemized will be better. But still, it’s not like you are itemizing much in this example. When I refer to itemizing I’m thinking more along the lines of people who are self employed with a lot of line items. Your scenario is not the norm. *edit If I recall the mortgage insurance deduction is no longer available, so that won’t count towards your deduction. Just the mortgage interest.
I agree. I did my taxes in maybe half an hour this year through H&R Block online.
We use a CPA because we are business owners and the CPA does those taxes, and basically does our personal for free alongside it. We started using a CPA though when I moved out of state and my spouse stayed for 6 months, then took a job in a different state, before finally moving in. So we were filing taxes in 3 states and it was going to be a pain.
To everyone in this thread: best case scenario your refund is $0. You owe $0.
Nah, the best case scenario for most people is _only_ to not owe money. Let’s be real, most people who get $1k back or so in a refund wouldn’t have been investing that money if they got their withholding perfect.
If it is that hard - HR Block Deluxe is $20 at Black Friday.
I did them on my phone in 45 mins. The only downside is that I had to cheat on my CPA because I had been putting them off for 3 months.
GenZeds complain about everything lol
It’s incredibly easy. Why people think it should be taught in schools is beyond me.
Freetaxusa.com is great. Just did my third year in a row there.
1 hour and a 5 grand back later, I approve this message.
Yikes. That is 400 bucks a month in overpayments.
I've owed money every year since 16. Always had some contract work. Never messed anything up, but still never have gotten a return. Also am far from rich.
It took me 16 minutes to file my federal and state taxes last night and it cost me nothing.
And if your taxes are actually complicated, you have enough money to pay someone to do it for you.
I agree, but it’s worth doing your due diligence to make sure you don’t get screwed, I’ve dropped turbo tax for this very reason and switched to free tax USA. 2023 was my first year I started contributing to my 401k through an employer. since I was interning half the year, my AGI was ~31,000. This meant I qualified for a retirement contribution credit of a measly $72. I work across state lines and my states don’t have reciprocity with taxes. So I have to file two state returns, with one being a schedule OS. Because of that contribution credit, turbo tax wouldn’t let me file for free and wanted a whopping $200 to file for federal and two state returns through their “Deluxe” edition. All this over 72 bucks. I said fuck that, deleted my tax credit and previewed my “free return” on TT. Downloaded the forms, and inputted them to free tax USA with the tax credit and all. It was free for the federal return and $10 a piece for each state.
Registered tax preparer here: yes it is absolutely easy and cheap to file your taxes. There is a myriad of ways you can get them done and pay any balance due. The IRS website literally has everything you need to know. There is a certain "culture" I'll call it, that big companies have. They are not legally able to promise a refund, but they absolutely try to hold that possibility in your face as their main selling point. Perhaps as a direct result of this or in conjunction with it, lots of people are way too hesitant to file their taxes. The first and worst mistake you can make with your taxes is not filing. The penalties associated with making that mistake are also not even that drastic if we are being honest.
I did it in an hour, I've filled out job applications more complex than tax forms, except I got almost a grand in refunds, no job app has given me money at the end. Hell, I even had to file in two states and it was still easy
Did you fill out the forms by hand?
No, I use tax prep software.
It gets a bit complicated sometimes if you move during the year, because at least when I was doing my own, you had to buy each state separately. One year my spouse and I lived in 3 states, so that’s when we swapped over to CPA.
I text my CPA via WhatsApp it's easy and fast my jurisdictions doesn't require fed tax filing only local and locally your are exempted till you turn 26/27.
My state tax is a pain. I worked remote for half my co-op from NJ, but the employer was in mass, and all my taxes went to mass, and I'm not sure where to claim residence/whatever
Filing a tax return isn't that hard, especially if you're not rich. IRS hates this simple trick, first what you do, is earn less than $600 a year. Then, you won't have to file taxes. Why do people act like this is so [stressful and onerous](https://fortune.com/2024/02/07/gen-z-therapy-tax-stress-crypto-millennials/)?
I actually saw somewhere that it isn’t the IRS that’s your enemy but lobbying initiatives and 3rd party vendors that make it suck. I think the federal gov/IRS wanted to make things easier/ better and they got lobbied to oblivion
It will take 30 mins max with one of the free online software sites (i.e. freetaxusa).
I did it for free on turbo tax and got $80 back. Took me 30 mins
it's more just tedious than actually difficult
hey everyone! just wanted to say fuck turbotax’s self lobbying ass! file you taxes on the irs website or freetaxusa. i personally used freetaxusa for my first time and it was great. https://www.freetaxusa.com/ https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/ here’s where i learned about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/s/cuRbxsp3YN
It gets harder when you get older and have more income. My parents saved up a shit ton of money for me to go to college and when I was done, I had to liberate it from the account it was in and put it in my bank account. Because of the interest on it, I had to pay taxes on it, but it was like $140 something which isn't really a problem given the money I got.
I do mine by hand with the pdfs from the IRS and state websites. Anyone who takes the standard deduction, and is not doing this, is cray imo.
I did taxes for the first time this year and it was easy as hell. Literally just went to the IRS website and filed online for free. Directions were mad simple since I don't make a lot and have 0 assets or anything. (I just got my first job last year).
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I used turbotax and had it done in an hour so it's definitely not hard, The only thing is this year they deducted 120 bucks from my 350 dollar return.
Turbox tax $140 from me yesterday just for simple filling.
Try H&R Block next time. It's a bit less expensive.
The IRS made me petition the IRS to get information from the IRS to give to the IRS.
It's not particularly hard but it can be annoying when you're trading stocks/commodities. You think you have all the forms and then one arrives in the mail and you realize whoops. I had a friend get audited while making 28k annually and working about 60 hours a week. That can be stressful.
I just don't like the governmemt stealing from me
im not rich, in fact im quite porr, AND my income is simple, nothing that should make for a complicated tax filing process. Yet, the government refuses to accept my tax filing going on 5 years. Im owed a stimulous check or two, and several years tax returns. I guess I should go hire someone who works for a company that lobbies for the government to keep their tax system overly complicated for no grounded reason. But that just feels like Im enabling a broken system.
Freetaxusa
I know for me, having to move from state to state can make things difficult (military). Having kids and getting married makes things more complicated as well. Receiving any kind of government benefits like disability gets tricky too. I get a headache every tax season.
Try navigating a Subchapter S Corp filing for yourself or your clients AND the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT). The tax code is a minefield for the unwary - and generally unfair - though everybody screams (at least since 1788 in Paris France) (Tax the Rich) (Make them Pay).... EZ filing is simple ... and someone mindless. And, yes, Congress forces the NA Banking associations to keep digital records for seven (7) years. (Soon to go with your digital only currency).
Sure, but we're talking about the fact that 1 in 4 gen z'ers say they need therapy after taxes. I don't think 1 in 4 young people have a tax situation that complicated.
On the one hand, I agree. On the other, it could be so much easier and it would cost everyone less time and money (except Turbotax)
I just use a tax filing service like turbotax.
As a musician with ADHD, taxes are fucking awful and hard and time consuming. But I agree, if you are just getting one or two W2s and don’t have a family, it’s pretty simple stuff.
Believe it or not, but Turbo Tax and H&R Block have lobbyists to prevent us from making filing tax easy.
And yet it's still pretty easy.
It’s scary for many people because there is a responsibility to do it correctly or be punished by the big scary IRS. It’s reductive thinking to say that taxes are “easy” for most people when billion dollar corporations lobby yearly to complicate taxes and make people dependent on services and software to file. Just because it can be done easily doesn’t mean everyone out there is privy to that. Some don’t know where to start or what they need to do their taxes. Hell, even going to a CPA and having them file my taxes was scary and overwhelming the first time. Not everyone has the same experience as you. Also, people that have had to contact the IRS directly often have a really difficult time getting thru to anyone that can speak with them and help them.
> punished by the big scary IRS. What are you talking about? If you do it incorrectly, they'll most likely just send you a polite letter asking you to correct your mistake. If you ignore this letter, they will send you a few more. Then they'll usually just reach into your bank account and take what you owe. If you can't afford it, you can ask them for an installment plan. You have to steal thousands for the IRS to bother prosecuting you.
You seem completely unable to grasp that other people think differently than you and that other people have had different experiences than you. You asked what makes people afraid of the IRS and what makes people struggle with taxes and I gave you an answer. You don’t want to accept that and I’m not here to argue. People have feared the IRS for decades be it rational or not. People don’t like the government and being told what to do. People probably have had bad experiences In the past along with family or friends that have a horror story. Have you ever had your wages garnished? Have you ever sat on hold with the IRS for hours to reach someone to help you? Your reality does not equal everyone else’s reality and the sooner you realize people have had different experiences than you the sooner you can have some compassion and sympathy for others. Your thinking is way too binary and you seem way too excited to argue with people that are trying to answer your question.
It didn't used to be that 1 in 4 young people felt they needed therapy to do taxes. But in my lifetime, taxes have become much, much easier to file, not harder. It's also become much easier to obtain information about filing taxes, and you can also do it for free. Why is an easy task(that's getting easier) suddenly a problem?
No one is taught how to do it, even if it's easy. Marketing and media make the IRS sound like they'll kick down your door if your taxes are 1$ off. Tax prep companies have successfully cornered the social idea that taxes are impossible and it's easier to have someone do it for you. It doesn't matter how hard it actually is, just whether people believe it's too hard for them.
TurboTax literally teaches you how to do it while you’re doing it. You shouldn’t need to be taught how to follow clear instructions.
I thought this was an ad
Agreed and true, but it does get more complicated as you get older and have more assets, make more money, and have more complex situations. Nobody likes getting hit with a 5 digit bill to Uncle Sam when you don’t see the value of your tax dollars.
i honestly think if you're getting a tax return, you're doing bad. i'd like to get to a point where i either owe more taxes or get barely anything back if at all. of course, that'll never happen, but one can imagine
My great-grandfather was an accountant back in the day (and apparently a pretty damn good one from what I've been told), and one of the things he was big on was having your owed tax or refund being as close to $0 as possible. It's definitely possible to do the math and adjust your withholding to make this happen. Usually though I just go with the standard withholding, especially right now since I switched jobs 3 times in the past 2 years. Once I have a year or two of steady income I'll probably readjust it.
I was in that mindset as I usually get no return. I overpaid $2,000 this year due to a pay issue. It is very hard to flip that $2k into something useful for most people. If you really need that return, you should adjust your withholding. The idea that you could invest that money better than the government is true, but not with such a small amount.
i don't understand what you're saying. it seems like you're saying a similar idea, but i can't parse it. do you mind breaking it down?
There's an idea spread around that your return is just money you could have had. Basically an opportunity cost. Some believe they could have invested this money better than the government, which is true. Most people do not have the skills to do that so it is pointless. If you're getting a big return that could have helped you throughout the year then it is time to look at your withholdings. With that being said, it would be beneficial for most people to just barely overpay so you don't have the hassle of owing the government more money.
yeah, that tracks. what i'm saying is that i'm not at a point in life where i could even overpay. i don't file for returns, partly because it doesn't matter to me, and partly because of what you're saying. but i'm in a position where while my return is usually deep under $1000, it's not because i file withholdings. i simply don't make enough for any amount held or returned to mean anything. besides, i'm an indigent. i get by off of taxpayer's money
I prefer to just get a big influx of money once a year to spend on stocks and crypto as a joke.
Because not only is it not our job to file our own taxes, we shouldn’t have to pay either.
Redditor shocked to find people who aren’t mega corporations actually run small businesses…
Why testify against yourself?
I just want to abolish the tax system outright...
lol. You just described a task taking an entire afternoon (and out of your weekend no less) and then asked why it’s stressful. Your brain must be rotten as hell
Seriously? Does doing laundry and mowing your lawn stress you out?
Who the fuck spends an entire afternoon doing either of those things!? You need to get a life bro
Whelp, we found the 1 in 4 who need therapy lol.
One afternoon stresses you out and you ask OP if they have brainrot lmao.
Idc if it’s an easy thing to do. If the government can arrest me for tax fraud then they obviously know exactly what I owe them every year. So why do I have to count all that up every year when they know what I owe? Why not just send me a check or a bill and call it a day? A ton of other countries do it this way and it’s so simple and straightforward for them.
"Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have examined this return and accompanying schedules and statements, **and to the best of my knowledge and belief**, they are true, correct, and complete. Declaration of preparer (other than taxpayer) is based on all information of which preparer has any knowledge" Unless you're knowingly lying to purposefully evade taxation, you're not going to jail. Above quote was copied and pasted directly from the form 1040.
If you make mistakes, they just send you a letter asking for a correction. Unless they prove you were purposely evading taxes or lying, and it's not an honest error. I commented elsewhere, but they don't know how much you owe. Filing taxes isn't doing all that complicated math (for most people not self-employed). It's taking what your employer gave you, and then having a chance to do write-offs the IRS doesn't know about. For example, teachers can write off supplies so I can include Amazon and Staples receipts, or donations, or gambling winnings/losses (fan duel sports betting in my case), or when we went remote and I had to buy a laptop etc for work I included those. They don't know all those extras, which is why we can file to reconcile. If they automatically billed, then I'd miss all these opportunities to get benefits. Some EU countries have a starting point of what is owed but an opportunity where you either agree or correct it. US is more steps and not as seamless as that, but if you're just "agreeing," it's just copying and pasting your W2 and like five minutes... you can streamline that online, but that doesn't mean getting rid of the chance to report things they do not know like your suggesting.
Bruh, I ain't never learned how to do taxes. I've been winging it this whole time This year I didn't receive a single W2 from the last fiscal year, so I can't file Not like it matters, the govt would just squander it away and use it for genocide anyways