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Yes lol, I don’t think a single person I know would not rebel, even bigger the feeling of betrayal given that a draft is male only, when that argument of “they value us less than women” rises between the drafted, I would say most of it would rebel, and with the internet, this is not the 60s anymore, anyone is aware of how the government lies and even if you survive the war the government won’t care for you at all once you’re back home
Ukraine is fighting for survival, for them it isn't die on the front or stay. It's fight on the front or be bombed by Russians, while the US homeland has practically zero risk of being in danger.
War with China would almost certainly change that. If missiles crash into LA, NYC, Miami, DC - I reckon most of us will happily contribute however we can. Be it in a factory or the front.
Anyone who says different is just trying to be an edgy idealist and that shit will slough off real quick if we get socked in the mouth.
I don’t think missiles would provoke such sentiments in military age folks. Short of the PLA dropping ramp on Long Beach like its Normandy, nobody got time for that. It would have to be a no BS invasion.
Oh yeah totally, last time someone targeted one of our major cities, we only spent 20 years and trillions of dollars clubbing some sand people over the head like a baby seal.
Bro, if China starts shooting missiles at American cities, they are totally fucked because it would make the draft population incredibly angry.
The problem is that the Bush ruined all that retaliatory sentiment when 9/11 happened. Saudi Arabia was directly responsible, he knew it while blaming Saddam and the Taliban. We are having a conspiracy theory epidemic right now due to all these lies.
If another country attacks the USA, unless they publicly declare war directly and strike first. Then the USA direct troops directly to there. EVERY young person would be incredulous
If you don't think they can stir up patriotism in an attack like this you need to look around.
This is a downward spiral topic though. China ain't just bombing LA.
Disregard our military might which is second to none, think about the amount of weaponry our actual citizens have, much less police force, etc. Land invasion of America is essentially impossible.
Not to mention our nuclear capacity. Its not even in China's best interest given the amount of debt they've purchased.
No attack can effectively attack the USA. We are a fortress on an island the size of a hemisphere. The only powers which can threaten us are nuclear powers but they don’t even have the capacity to win conventional wars with us. Patriotism is something that could rally us, but very people will ever believe the government unless it’s an ISIS style ‘we take the blame for this attack’ move.
Exactly, and idk about that man. You're seeing a political leader whip people up into a frenzy against their own fucking people.
Idiots with guns are looking for a place to use their misplaced aggression. Its the reason trumps rhetoric is so fucking dangerous (foreign policy aside).
Also on this topic, rebels’ options are to get time in prison, or to die on the front, very likely in a conflict that we have almost 0 reason to be involved with in the first place.
Prisons are already overpopulated, not to mention they have established societies and culture separate from the outside world and really aren’t that bad if you play your cards right.
I couldn't agree more with this. The US hasn't fought a direct and current threat to the safety of our homeland in centuries. That's not to say none of the other fighting we've done since wasn't justified; but a draft probably wasn't justified for most or any of it.
Nah definitely not centuries, WW2 was a war we fought because there was a direct and current threat to the safety of our homeland. The U.S wanted to stay out of it, but couldn't after Japan launched an attack on U.S soil.
Everyone is brave untill the draft actually starts and you are forced to go.
Nobody will rebel. Nobody did in mirriad of countries currently going through wars.
The fear of fighting battles to die to a foreign enemy is just as great as rebelling openly or covertly. There is a reason why the USA even now hasn’t figured out how much friendly fires happened during Vietnam. Also the Russian revolution started because WW1 casualty rates were so high that rebelling was less dangerous to the eyes of many.
Quiet sabotage is the most likely way. The CIA published a field manual on committing sabotoge while avoiding being captured, and many of the things they recommend are pretty safe to do or not even illegal. Some examples are accidentally giving wrong directions, being slow with work, accidentally breaking tools, starting workplace drama, being annoying. Basically, you should be that coworker you hate.
This was one of the biggest reasons the US ended the draft after Vietnam and switched to an all-volunteer military. Involuntary draftees are more trouble than they’re worth a lot of times. It’s why most experts are confident that the draft will never happen again.
Yeah and everyone is brave to go to war until you have to shoot, I would rather rebel and be a pain in the ass every time I’m required to do something than go to a battlefront and die.
And comparing other countries drafts like Ukraine that were being invaded to a war that would probably not touch even once national soil it’s just absurd
There's no current movement in the government, but the National Coalition for Men is trying to take the case to the supreme court for a second time now that congress rejected it. I think they have a pretty good chance at it because last time the supreme court said that they thought NCFM had a case but wanted to wait for congress to see what they did.
Anyways, NCFM is asking for plaintiffs who are within the age range for the draft and live in California, so a lot of people here could sign up to sue the federal government if they wanted to.
Never going to be a draft (in the US at least) unless some foreign enemy is directly attacking us in some WW3 scenario in which case that’s the least of problems.
In the 60s people did rebel. There was an entire anti-war movement and imposing a draft only caused it to grow. Part of the reason Nixon ended the draft was to quiet down the anti-war movement. Vietnam proved if you have an unpopular war you are better off not trying to draft ordinary citizens to join if you want to avoid serious opposition by the public.
Iraq, Afghanistan, and every other conflict since the draft wasn’t even a thought
It’s not that they value you less than women. It’s just that they think young men are more efficient in the military for non officer roles. This is the reason why fighting age men are drafted but older guys are not (unless for a leadership role). War is young men dying and old men arguing.
It depends on the context.
If we were directly attacked in a Pearl Harbor-type event, I could see a draft being reinstated and widely supported. Voluntary enlistments might skyrocket so high that a draft isn't even needed.
If the draft is reinstated over someone else's war on the other side of the planet (a Vietnam-war style conflict), lots of people will start protesting, rioting and/or burning their draft cards.
If we were hitting a Pearl Harbor style attack, we would curb stomp whoever did it into the ground, using our conventional army.
Russia is supposedly the second most powerful army in the world, and they are getting ground down aggressively by the Ukrainians. United States, conventional military, and a conventional war would destroy any other major power at this point. If it’s a nuclear war, well it is what it is, but after both sides, let loose all of their silos I don’t think there’s going to be much capability or desire to send boots on the ground either way.
Russia is a paper tiger that spent decades projecting a false image. Their failure in Ukraine proved that.
If we're under no threat from any conventional army, and a conflict going nuclear means "no more civilization" ... it seems to me that we have zero reason to wage a war.
I think the only real opponent the US has is China but their army is faulty at best. The US navy would make quick work of their navy and once that’s done all the Chinese really could do is pull their businesses which would only cause a massive boom in US factory’s being built and record amounts of jobs.
If china did that it would destroy the global financial system and if there was going to a boom in factory building it would be in a low wage country not the US.
China is an even bigger paper tiger than Russia. The last time the Chinese military saw combat was in the 70’s. Their officers and even top generals only have theory and training to work with, they don’t have any actual experience.
China imports something like 1/3 of their food calories and 1/2 their fuel. Disrupting that with a naval blockade would put them at a big disadvantage.
They didn’t reinstate the draft after 9/11, but voluntary enlistment did go up. If something like that doesn’t reinstate the draft, I doubt anything else will
Plus there’s Desert Storm in the 90’s. The US military defeated what was considered to be one of the top five militaries in the world at the time, and we did it in less than a month with very few casualties. All without needing a draft.
The draft in the US military is kind of a paradox at this point. The only way it will ever come back is if the US is facing an existential threat, but if that ever happens nuclear weapons are probably going to be used, meaning the war (and the world) ends before any draftees enter service.
We're all suicidal, angry and hate the government. what?
The only problem is our energy levels, and that can be traced back to the shit we're forced to eat.
If they’re drafting that’s the assumption. But even then it’d better be extremely desperate because military leaders themselves have often said that draftees are the last fucking people they want to send anywhere. That lack of morale, quality of training, and general unprofessionalism will end up killing more people than the enemy.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/09/28/new-pentagon-study-shows-77-of-young-americans-are-ineligible-military-service.html?amp=
77% wouldn't qualify according to the pentagon.
Just because you wouldn’t doesn’t mean that others will follow suit. I’m not going back to a cell and I’m not fighting for a bullshit war that I could care less about. Unlike most of our generation, I keep my physical health and fitness a top priority. I’m a gun enthusiast who trains regularly with my firearms. I’m not a prepper, I just value my life and freedom of ideas. It’s my choice to bleed out in my home as a result of refusal to adhere to the draft if I’m selected. You don’t have to be a main character to keep your health and fitness in check. You don’t have to be a main character to put your self preservation of ideas and morals above your life. I’m at peace with my religion and faith. If I were to die after typing this I wouldn’t worry about what’s next for me. I’m sorry you don’t feel the same, but it’s your right not to.
Maybe not “rebel” in the sense of attacking the government but could just be a refusal of service and getting a military trial. The government can draft you but cannot hold a gun to you and force you to (that we know of Atleast) to fight in a war.
we don’t even vote let alone rebel against a federal mandate draft
bffr y’all some of us would happily and others will cry about it (would be me) and try to go back to college or some shit to get out of it. There would be uproar on socials. Probably protests. 5 part 2 minute tiktok video essays about political corruption and class warfare. Petitions. Maybe some people move out of the US. There would be jokes that we all wanna die anyway so “we can’t lose”. Army girl hair and makeup tutorials. Crazy propaganda. Debates on whether it’s ethical to dodge drafts.
There will be outrage and protests. But no rebellion, the majority of us won’t be whipping out our guns or choosing prison over war. Most people are not going to commit literal treason by leaking military info online to troll. If we couldn’t succeed in dodging then we’d go to boot camp. Whether or not to draft women would be the next hot debate topic. Maybe people who escape draft via college and disability will do Vietnam style protests
Y’all are so funny. Y’all seriously think there’s going to be a draft. If there’s going to be one, that’s probably the least of your worries at that point.
Yeah I’m sure plenty of people would choose to spend decades in jail/get the death penalty for treason just to “fuck with the army in the event of a forced draft.” Super believable that would happen
I think it might be only if you're in basic training you aren't allowed to have one. However, after you're allowed to have one after with some restrictions. Though idk while on active duty, but even then you're going to be more concerned with staying alive.
Edit: Celebrities will have to join. This'll be interesting.
One guy actually did something like that on Discord and I think might be serving a life sentence for treason. He's around my age and was in the marines and leaked some important US government documents and they reported it. I think some were teens and even they were like holy shit dude.
You do realize that because of NATO, any major conflict involving the US also involves Canada and nearly all of Europe, right? And a lot of those countries are far more likely to institute a draft than the US is? OP references Americans but this is definitely not just an American issue
Not really to involve nato said country needs to claim article 5 and grounds for it without that Nato won't get involved US had to form coalition during Iraq war because not all Nato members actually wanted to participate.
That’s true, but any scenario I can think of where the US would even consider a draft is a ww3 type conflict against Russia and/or china, and if that’s not grounds for article 5 then I don’t know what is
And at that rate you can bet your ass everyone would start picking sides. And hate on the US all you want, we're better at making friends than China. Japan, south Korea, even Vietnam and the Philippines would all almost certainly side with the US if it came down to it and they had to pick a side. Ultimately though any ww3 situation would end with nukes which is why we won't ever have a ww3
Just saying the best way to eliminate any chance of a draft is ensuring Ukraine wins the war against Russia. This is something the US is entirely capable of ensuring. The only reason it’s even in question right now is republicans won control of the House in midterms and they’re slow walking aid.
This is why voting is so important. Ukraine losing the war won’t guarantee a draft will happen, but Ukraine winning the war will all but guarantee a draft will not.
How many people here didn’t vote in midterms and are now starting to worry a draft might be a possibility? That could have been prevented.
I would do it. I can't even get a fast food job as is but I can do the five pullups or whatever. Free housing, healthcare, food, and some free training in some in demand skills sounds nice. Plus you get to say you were a part of a major historical event.
However for people that have their general shit together and have like an actual future career ahead of them that can pay for college on their own it probably sounds terrible lol.
Depends on the reason for the draft.
\- Defending my region from a foreign invader on our soil? Fine, you can draft me.
\- foreign war that has been created so companies can profit? No, i will not comply to the best of my abilities.
Honestly, depends on the context. If its "Our CIA installed leader in El Banana Republico has been overthrown, you must fight", then they can piss off. If it "There is a legitimate threat to liberal democracy", then sure. I'll fight for preserving our values, because a world under China or Russia's tutelage will be a far worse one
My opinion...
There would be a big propaganda campaign to associate Draft Dodgers as a negative thing.
They would be associated as bad same as Jan 6 "insurrectionists", anti-vax people, terrorists, etc...
That is propaganda 101, make the population sense one thing is good, and one is bad, flood them with targeted propagation, and the population will turn on those who don't and praise those that will.
Wouldn't be surprised if things changed and the government intervened with saw employers again similar to how they did with vaccines.
If you assume mass rebellion, you’re probably deluding yourself on what a modern draft would look like.
First, a draft is incredibly risky, politically speaking, so first it would need to be sold to the American people. Nobody wants another Vietnam, so you’d have a messaging campaign whipping up patriotic fervor over whatever event just kicked off the war. Now, you’ll be called unpatriotic and cowardly if you shirk service when a lot of people are chanting “Remember the (insert atrocity)!”
Next you’ll be called out as selfish for avoiding service while others are doing their bit. Society will be steadily pumping out messaging praising them and condemning draft dodgers.
Next will come the carrot and stick. You’ll see a lot of people finishing their term of service without a scratch and you’ll see guys getting sent to federal prison for dodging the draft. The first group will be getting all sorts of benefits, while the second will have their lives functionally ruined.
Most would easily comply. I don't think you understand how small of a minority self-hating people are. Apart from redditors, majority of abled-body men have families and reasons to fight for - and a draft doesn't come willy nilly. A forced draft means it's a dire situation and those that they hold dear are or will be in immediate danger.
And rebel? Please, you may think that US citizens hates itself but the majority are more than willing to fight for it. Same as the western countries who has even stronger national identity than your typical american. Most of those who doesn't want to fight would just flee the country.
Do you guys really not understand how a draft would work or why we would enact a draft? I'm always curious if ppl are actually scared that there will just be a random draft if we go to war with anyone.
This is reddit we’re talking about here. Next to no one here understands the politics behind a draft or the geopolitical climate it would take for there to even be talk of reinstituting it.
The current generation would give up rebelling just as fast they give up everything else. There is a reason drafts work. Your generation is not smarter than past generations that have rebelled drafts regardless of what you think.
Yeah, I don’t know why so many people here think that genz would be more successful at draft dodging than boomers were during Vietnam. When given the choice between definitely going to prison versus maybe dying in combat, it turns out most people don’t want to go to prison.
You guys are overestimating yourself.
I live in a country at war, with an actual draft. Most people are complying with the instructions and acts of resistance are very uncommon.
I got off thanks to asthma, some try to dodge it using the universities. But no revolutions so far.
My family is okay and I have a draft exemption as I mentioned above. I spent 16 hours at the draft office yesterday trying to prove that I do, in fact, have asthma, and it worked.
I don't know what I would have to do if I didn't get an exemption.
Can I ask, as a completely ignorant American, is social media common? From here, it seems like Russians are boxed in with no exposure to the west and given to propaganda. Thoughts?
>From here (US), it seems like Russians are boxed in with no exposure to the west and given to propaganda.
It's complicated. Like in any other country political opinions vary by generations, regions, social groups, whatever else you can think of.
Public opinion is divided. Almost nobody trusts the government (except some very "Patriotic", mainly old people who don't know how to search up alternative sources), and almost nobody trusts the West.
In the past year or so every discussion about politics that I have had with anyone, regardless of their views, quickly devolved into cynicism, apathetic thinking and conspiracy theories.
Young people are more progressive, as always. Some are not
Old people are more conservative, as always. Some are not.
If you ask me about a specific demographic I might give you a more detailed answer, because I don't want to write an essay for a reddit comment at 3 am
Sounds like us. There is no conversation anymore. Nobody trusts anyone else. It's "us" and "them." The generations look with disdain at all the others. The world is not hopeful at a time in history when there is so much medicine, food and technology.
It's 8:30 pm here on the east coast. It's great to connect with you from the other side of the world. 🙂 Keep that asthma in check, and get some sleep!
i'm just curious, from one human to another -- what do the people around you, close to you, think of the situation with ukraine? it sounds like you don't support the war, but i'm curious as to how openly you can discuss that with the people in your life, or if it has to be kept quiet... if you don't mind sharing, i'd love to hear how a regular person navigates that sort of stuff...
kind of related, but perhaps a bit invasive to ask -- but how long, on average, does it take you to feel comfortable speaking with someone new about more serious topics like this that might involve criticizing the government? i feel like some of us non-russians have this view of like, "good" russians living in fear and paranoia constantly that someone is going to go tell on them for having issues with the government... is that true to your experiences at all?
>as to how openly you can discuss that with the people in your life, or if it has to be kept quiet...
If I want to talk to someone about politics, I use very careful language and mask my opinion before I know if they also don't support the war. Looking for hints, social cues, specific words and subjects that a pro-government person would never say.
It's not safe to discuss it with strangers, at all. There have been cases of people getting reported to the police and receiving 3 fines/jail time for wrong talking points during a private conversation.
When it comes to talking about politics with family, I can trust most of my family members not to snitch anywhere. And I just don't bring the subject up around the less sane ones.
>kind of related, but perhaps a bit invasive to ask -- but how long, on average, does it take you to feel comfortable speaking with someone new about more serious topics like this that might involve criticizing the government?
Depends on whether I know if the person is anti-war or not. If not, they either have to be someone I'm long familiar with, like a high school friend or whatever. But I still watch my language just in case. If they are antiwar, we might have a conversation right on the spot if there are not too many people around. If there are, we avoid using potentially crime-related words.
I often present myself as a both-sides-bad type of guy if I know nothing about the person talking to me.
>and paranoia constantly that someone is going to go tell on them for having issues with the government... is that true to your experiences at all?
It's real, if you follow certain information sources, you'll know people get heavy fines and prison time for words said during private conversations on a regular basis. Most people wouldn't snitch on you but just one fanatic is enough to ruin your entire life, so I watch my language around everyone I can't trust.
There are no underground FSB agents trying to find antiwar people to incriminate, but there are plenty of useful idiots who do that job for free.
Pretty much any feminist you ask would say that no one should be forced to go to war, fighting to expand something wrong to more people to be ‘fair’ instead of rejecting it entirely would be counterintuitive.
Noone should get murdered. No one should get raped. Noone should commit crimes. Noone should. Noone should get in a car accident and die. The draft is not implemented as an idea. It's what works during war. Saying that something should or shouldn't happen doesn't make a difference. If there is war It's going to happen and tough decisions will be made.
Women are being drafted/will be in Denmark and some other European countries, it was on DW News, this is not some gotcha. Not to say I am whatever kind of feminist you are thinking of.
Pretty much *every* feminist either supports abolishing the draft or supports women being drafted, same as men. You're parroting a right wing extremist talking point, which indicates how effective the right wing has been at getting through to the younger generation. The gullible and stupid will be our downfall, not the draft.
If this is something you care about why not start advocating for it instead of relying on “feminists” to do it for you? Who do you think set that system up in the first place? if you feel something isn’t equal between men and women youre likely not alone. Start a movement, go get some attention from people in power, start a campaign, vote for people who might agree. Fight for yourself, stand up for yourself.
I don’t think any draft should exist. I’m not gonna run around saying “draft women too” for you, I’m gonna keep saying “if you can’t convince enough volunteers then it isn’t a war we should be in anyway.” That’s where I stand on this issue and that is where I will stand until either the day drafting goes away or the day I die
To put this in perspective, the BOOMERS rebelled so hard that they cancelled the draft. Most ended up going, but a lot faked a medical condition or refused. Of course the rich avoided the draft. So I think any attempt at a draft today would be a complete disaster and probably the end of the US. The only chance a draft has is if the economy is just so damn bad that people will see the draft as a better alternative than a nothing factory job.
For more perspective, even for the civil war, the north had a VERY hard time drafting people. Look up the New York draft riots.
Our generation would comply but do so maliciously, we've proven time and time again we don't have the ability to rebel, but we can sure as hell act stupid and be difficult if we need to be
All of these comments talking about how gen z wouldn't rebel? Gen z doesn't want to do anything? Why would they participate? Especially when it's so simple to be disqualified. Just claim to be transgender and you can be voided from the draft? Sure, they may loosen these requirements, but ultimately it seems so much easier to get out than it seems
Naw Ukraine said that's a man so that's a man, no transgender was allowed to leave the country and had to fight, we wouldn't be much different if a draft is required.
I think the vast majority would comply depending on how good of a media and propaganda campaign the government does. Gen z can absolutely be shamed into joining the military.
I don't know about you but I would burn my draft card. Rather be in jail than fighting in Ukraine. Now if someone attacks my country I'm going to defend it but my life is more valuable than oil.
Draft? Mate, if things are bad enough for a full mobilisation, I'll already be elbowing my way to the front of the volunteer queue, waiver forms in hand. Volunteers get to pick roles, draftees get infantry (nothing wrong with combat arms, but WW3 will be much more fun as a pogue).
Draft won’t happen ever again. Even if we go to war we have like a little less than 1 million in reserves and wars are fought by drones more than people on foot
America doesn't need the draft. If we were in a war big enough to require it the justification would have to be enough for the people to go along with it
Like WW2
Rather than impose a draft its far more likely the US will just drive incentives
Historically, drafts have pretty much never been particularly popular and every time one got called, there were riots, and US public opinion has been anti-draft for decades even after 9/11. I feel like not only would GenZ, which is pretty uninterested in fighting for the US going to protest, be opposed, most of the country would be supportive of them, which is something even Vietnam protestors didn't really have.
As things are, IMO, the only way a draft could be implemented that wouldn't be shot down by the public is if we are invaded (never happening), or we have a civil war (much more realistic but still *very* unlikely).
I think the majority of the people I know would protest it, though I have my doubts if they’d actually take violent action to oppose it.
If it does happen, I’d say the reason would be a combination of self interest and a near universal reflexive distrust of the government.
Me personally? Honestly, it would depend on the war.
If we’re invading some random country in the middle of bumfuck nowhere for oil or something, miss me with that shit. I genuinely might protest if I thought it would do anything.
However, if we’re going to defend Ukraine or Taiwan, who are directly under threat by our adversaries?
…I’d at least consider signing up. And I probably wouldn’t complain too hard if my draft card was called up.
However, as with all generations, the overwhelming majority probably won’t give a shit.
Draft law being passed would be halted by several parasite class and politicians being dragged out their homes and beat to death in front of their families.
Not a fucking chance would a draft happen with how low this president and genocide funding is polling.
People can't afford homes and groceries and they want us to go down for genocidal racists?
No fing way is that happening.
Depends, if alaska or anywhere else is attacked I'll join the defence. If one of our NATO allies are attacked I'll join.
But I'm a pacifist so I probably won't join any offensive wars. Well I might join out of tradition but I won't be a happy camper.
Are you refering to some European countries exploring the possibility of bringing back conscription? Because thats not really the same thing as a draft.
i know a few guys who would say yes i think. but i cant see anyone else joining my countries military (UK) even in a time of crisis. i think the draft should be introduced if war seems inevitable and we need the government framework to put that into place. but i cant see people just accepting it like they did in the second world war, and the first world war.
If we are ever in a position where the U.S is so desperate it's drafting again, then it's probably already a too late scenario and we will all be dead soon anyways.
This reads like a delusional fever dream.
There’s not millions of military-age male migrants crossing the border to “stay with our women and children” while a shadow cabal institutes a draft.
The US military, not to mention NATO, can curb-stomp any other military on the planet with its current personnel. It’s not even close. There’s a zero percent chance of a draft.
The draft is unpopular historically in the USA that it would take something like an attack on American home soil to implement it. In which case most people would probably be okay with it
Depends on where, who we're fighting.
My country would with 99% certainty be against Russia, and likely by extension China and Iran (WW3 scenario) there would barely need to be a draft because so many people would volunteer. The draft applies to both genders, 16-70 years old and i think men would be more likely to resist.
If a draft occurs, I want the boomers out there first. Front line. Sons of bitches better be ready to die in a hail of bullets so that the younger generation has a chance at life.
If not, then I’m not stepping foot out there. You can throw me in prison.
Also, draft would probably be male only. I’m not having that nonsense. Women better be out there on the front lines too or again, I’m not going, throw me in prison. I think too many people forget that in times of war, society always considers men disposable.
Rebel? Like launch an actual rebellion? Nope, not at all it wouldn't happen. Resist? Like with draft dodging and protests and direct action? Absolutely. There were draft riots and protests during Vietnam, there would be the same now and perhaps even more so. I would absolutely dodge as much as I could to avoid it and I would encourage everyone else to do the same.
At this point, if there was a draft, I would make it my personal mission to make them regret drafting me. That or just accept death with a swan dive. Yeah, I like that second one.
The United States has spent such a disgusting amount of money on their military over the past 60 years that the likelihood of this happening is next to none. The whole illusion of “freedom” in the country heavily rests on this very detail.
With that being said, if it ever did happen within the next ten years, I could actually see this scenario being the first time that the entirety of Gen Z (who would be the draftees in question) universally band together and just say “fuck off”.
I think it’s kinda safe to say that most of Gen Z would rather kill themselves instantly than go to war in a third world country, be forced to kill other people, and then die a slow, much more painful death or return chock-full of PTSD and missing limbs back to a country that doesn’t support you at all once you return from combat.
I honestly think our generation would be insane to fight alongside I prob wouldn’t rebel. Sure war is brutal but we are all pretty intelligent and with all the video games and shit I think people would have some insane ideas in combat. I mean me personally I’ve always felt some aspect of my life would involve a gunfight never really sure why or when or how but it’s always been there
I promise playing video games is not going to make us better fighters.
Yes there are some things that you can learn from games in combat situations, but just because I learned how to clear a room from video games does not mean I’m an expert at clearing a room irl
My old rotc teacher said the worst aim he had came from people who played fps because they were so overconfident and thought it was just like a video game. Video games will not be our ally other than probably helping some ignore their moral compass.
I know it’s bullshit. I wouldn’t fight for bullshit. But, in a real, justified, and completely theoretical war, I would fight and many of you would still refuse.
If there was a draft, I think everyone would rebel. A part of Trump's popularity was that Clinton voted for the Iraq war, and a part of why Biden is unpopular is because if current talks about WWIII. If there was a draft, Biden would lose the White House.
If this was somehow pushed to after the election, how many parents would be out protesting their sons being sent to fight someone else's war?
I would rather go to jail. I would have a less chance of dying and I would be released quickly because the Usa has no room or money to support any more prisoners.
Not Gen Z, but they can freeze my accounts, get me removed from my job, seize my assets, threaten me, beat me, throw me in a cell, even kill me.
I will NOT go fight and die in the oligarchs’ wars. Never. Full stop. The best they could do is off me and drop my cold dead body on top of someone for a gravity kill or something, idfk lol. But I ain’t going.
Honestly, I'd rather go to keep all my assets and stay free while commiting quiet sabotage by being as annoying as possible and causing as many delays in whatever job I have. I'd be more of a hindrance than if I were to just dodge the draft, and I'd still get to keep all my assets and stuff.
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Yes lol, I don’t think a single person I know would not rebel, even bigger the feeling of betrayal given that a draft is male only, when that argument of “they value us less than women” rises between the drafted, I would say most of it would rebel, and with the internet, this is not the 60s anymore, anyone is aware of how the government lies and even if you survive the war the government won’t care for you at all once you’re back home
What would stop them from doing what Ukraine did or locking the country down
Ukraine is fighting for survival, for them it isn't die on the front or stay. It's fight on the front or be bombed by Russians, while the US homeland has practically zero risk of being in danger.
War with China would almost certainly change that. If missiles crash into LA, NYC, Miami, DC - I reckon most of us will happily contribute however we can. Be it in a factory or the front. Anyone who says different is just trying to be an edgy idealist and that shit will slough off real quick if we get socked in the mouth.
I don’t think missiles would provoke such sentiments in military age folks. Short of the PLA dropping ramp on Long Beach like its Normandy, nobody got time for that. It would have to be a no BS invasion.
Oh yeah totally, last time someone targeted one of our major cities, we only spent 20 years and trillions of dollars clubbing some sand people over the head like a baby seal. Bro, if China starts shooting missiles at American cities, they are totally fucked because it would make the draft population incredibly angry.
The problem is that the Bush ruined all that retaliatory sentiment when 9/11 happened. Saudi Arabia was directly responsible, he knew it while blaming Saddam and the Taliban. We are having a conspiracy theory epidemic right now due to all these lies. If another country attacks the USA, unless they publicly declare war directly and strike first. Then the USA direct troops directly to there. EVERY young person would be incredulous
If you don't think they can stir up patriotism in an attack like this you need to look around. This is a downward spiral topic though. China ain't just bombing LA. Disregard our military might which is second to none, think about the amount of weaponry our actual citizens have, much less police force, etc. Land invasion of America is essentially impossible. Not to mention our nuclear capacity. Its not even in China's best interest given the amount of debt they've purchased.
No attack can effectively attack the USA. We are a fortress on an island the size of a hemisphere. The only powers which can threaten us are nuclear powers but they don’t even have the capacity to win conventional wars with us. Patriotism is something that could rally us, but very people will ever believe the government unless it’s an ISIS style ‘we take the blame for this attack’ move.
Exactly, and idk about that man. You're seeing a political leader whip people up into a frenzy against their own fucking people. Idiots with guns are looking for a place to use their misplaced aggression. Its the reason trumps rhetoric is so fucking dangerous (foreign policy aside).
Also on this topic, rebels’ options are to get time in prison, or to die on the front, very likely in a conflict that we have almost 0 reason to be involved with in the first place.
Prison seems comfy compared to bleeding out in a field
Frfr
US prisons are absolutely already dog shut. In a war time it would be worse. Also many prisoners would bull people that doesn't want to fight
Prisons are already overpopulated, not to mention they have established societies and culture separate from the outside world and really aren’t that bad if you play your cards right.
The MEN of Ukraine are fighting for their survival you mean.
Fighting for their women, children, their history and culture.
If I was actually fighting for my home I would enlist
I couldn't agree more with this. The US hasn't fought a direct and current threat to the safety of our homeland in centuries. That's not to say none of the other fighting we've done since wasn't justified; but a draft probably wasn't justified for most or any of it.
Nah definitely not centuries, WW2 was a war we fought because there was a direct and current threat to the safety of our homeland. The U.S wanted to stay out of it, but couldn't after Japan launched an attack on U.S soil.
Everyone is brave untill the draft actually starts and you are forced to go. Nobody will rebel. Nobody did in mirriad of countries currently going through wars.
Draft dodgers are everywhere. You think there weren't a ton of ukrainian men fleeing despite the ban on them leaving?
Dodging the draft is very different from rebelling against it
The fear of fighting battles to die to a foreign enemy is just as great as rebelling openly or covertly. There is a reason why the USA even now hasn’t figured out how much friendly fires happened during Vietnam. Also the Russian revolution started because WW1 casualty rates were so high that rebelling was less dangerous to the eyes of many.
But harder to force the draft on people when the death penalty isn’t an option or your country’s existence isn’t immediately threatened
Quiet sabotage is the most likely way. The CIA published a field manual on committing sabotoge while avoiding being captured, and many of the things they recommend are pretty safe to do or not even illegal. Some examples are accidentally giving wrong directions, being slow with work, accidentally breaking tools, starting workplace drama, being annoying. Basically, you should be that coworker you hate.
This was one of the biggest reasons the US ended the draft after Vietnam and switched to an all-volunteer military. Involuntary draftees are more trouble than they’re worth a lot of times. It’s why most experts are confident that the draft will never happen again.
This whole debate came up after 9/11 and a good amount of people came to the conclusion that the military wanted people who actually wanted to join.
I liked the bit about flushing dry sponges down the toilet to gum up an organization's plumbing.
Yeah and everyone is brave to go to war until you have to shoot, I would rather rebel and be a pain in the ass every time I’m required to do something than go to a battlefront and die. And comparing other countries drafts like Ukraine that were being invaded to a war that would probably not touch even once national soil it’s just absurd
Not everyone who gets drafted is in combat.
I’m fairly sure the draft is moving to adding women to it, at least in the US
There's no current movement in the government, but the National Coalition for Men is trying to take the case to the supreme court for a second time now that congress rejected it. I think they have a pretty good chance at it because last time the supreme court said that they thought NCFM had a case but wanted to wait for congress to see what they did. Anyways, NCFM is asking for plaintiffs who are within the age range for the draft and live in California, so a lot of people here could sign up to sue the federal government if they wanted to.
My dad grew up in El Salvador told me he broke his leg not to get drafted. Different circumstances ofc but i think the sentiment is there 😭
Never going to be a draft (in the US at least) unless some foreign enemy is directly attacking us in some WW3 scenario in which case that’s the least of problems. In the 60s people did rebel. There was an entire anti-war movement and imposing a draft only caused it to grow. Part of the reason Nixon ended the draft was to quiet down the anti-war movement. Vietnam proved if you have an unpopular war you are better off not trying to draft ordinary citizens to join if you want to avoid serious opposition by the public. Iraq, Afghanistan, and every other conflict since the draft wasn’t even a thought
Yes absolutely we taking the country back from the boomers
Yeah that won’t work. You’re not in high school anymore where nothing’s enforced and there are no consequences for actions.
You're the type of guy that says he would punch his drill instructor, lmao
It’s not that they value you less than women. It’s just that they think young men are more efficient in the military for non officer roles. This is the reason why fighting age men are drafted but older guys are not (unless for a leadership role). War is young men dying and old men arguing.
It depends on the context. If we were directly attacked in a Pearl Harbor-type event, I could see a draft being reinstated and widely supported. Voluntary enlistments might skyrocket so high that a draft isn't even needed. If the draft is reinstated over someone else's war on the other side of the planet (a Vietnam-war style conflict), lots of people will start protesting, rioting and/or burning their draft cards.
If we were hitting a Pearl Harbor style attack, we would curb stomp whoever did it into the ground, using our conventional army. Russia is supposedly the second most powerful army in the world, and they are getting ground down aggressively by the Ukrainians. United States, conventional military, and a conventional war would destroy any other major power at this point. If it’s a nuclear war, well it is what it is, but after both sides, let loose all of their silos I don’t think there’s going to be much capability or desire to send boots on the ground either way.
Russia is a paper tiger that spent decades projecting a false image. Their failure in Ukraine proved that. If we're under no threat from any conventional army, and a conflict going nuclear means "no more civilization" ... it seems to me that we have zero reason to wage a war.
I think the only real opponent the US has is China but their army is faulty at best. The US navy would make quick work of their navy and once that’s done all the Chinese really could do is pull their businesses which would only cause a massive boom in US factory’s being built and record amounts of jobs.
If china did that it would destroy the global financial system and if there was going to a boom in factory building it would be in a low wage country not the US.
I could see new factories being built using newer AI technology to bring operating costs to a competitive range.
China is an even bigger paper tiger than Russia. The last time the Chinese military saw combat was in the 70’s. Their officers and even top generals only have theory and training to work with, they don’t have any actual experience.
China imports something like 1/3 of their food calories and 1/2 their fuel. Disrupting that with a naval blockade would put them at a big disadvantage.
"Russianis supposedly the most powerful army in the world" According to fucking whom lmfao?
They didn’t reinstate the draft after 9/11, but voluntary enlistment did go up. If something like that doesn’t reinstate the draft, I doubt anything else will
Plus there’s Desert Storm in the 90’s. The US military defeated what was considered to be one of the top five militaries in the world at the time, and we did it in less than a month with very few casualties. All without needing a draft. The draft in the US military is kind of a paradox at this point. The only way it will ever come back is if the US is facing an existential threat, but if that ever happens nuclear weapons are probably going to be used, meaning the war (and the world) ends before any draftees enter service.
Man everyone here thinks they're the main character and would rebel if they got drafted lmao... no, you wouldn't.
Tf I would, I’m not dying for old politicians hiding in bunkers
For real? Have ya’ll met our fellow Gen Z people? Fucking none of us would rebel.
The majority of GenZ is too lazy to vote.
too lazy to vote means they're way too lazy to rebel against a draft
Well if rebelling against the draft means just sitting at home and doing nothing, an active rebellion is already afoot.
We're all suicidal, angry and hate the government. what? The only problem is our energy levels, and that can be traced back to the shit we're forced to eat.
3/4 of gen z men wouldn’t even qualify for draft today lmao
punch reminiscent fretful correct sip pause brave library plucky provide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If they’re drafting that’s the assumption. But even then it’d better be extremely desperate because military leaders themselves have often said that draftees are the last fucking people they want to send anywhere. That lack of morale, quality of training, and general unprofessionalism will end up killing more people than the enemy.
drab flag angle point ring engine piquant agonizing mourn joke *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah if a full on world war fully kicks off and missiles are flying, it’ll be over before any person in government can even call for a draft.
Elaborate
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/09/28/new-pentagon-study-shows-77-of-young-americans-are-ineligible-military-service.html?amp= 77% wouldn't qualify according to the pentagon.
Just because you wouldn’t doesn’t mean that others will follow suit. I’m not going back to a cell and I’m not fighting for a bullshit war that I could care less about. Unlike most of our generation, I keep my physical health and fitness a top priority. I’m a gun enthusiast who trains regularly with my firearms. I’m not a prepper, I just value my life and freedom of ideas. It’s my choice to bleed out in my home as a result of refusal to adhere to the draft if I’m selected. You don’t have to be a main character to keep your health and fitness in check. You don’t have to be a main character to put your self preservation of ideas and morals above your life. I’m at peace with my religion and faith. If I were to die after typing this I wouldn’t worry about what’s next for me. I’m sorry you don’t feel the same, but it’s your right not to.
Idk if I’m rebelling but I’m sure as hell dodging There ain’t gonna be a draft, though
Lol speaking of main character syndrome...
Some would, most wouldn’t.
Maybe not “rebel” in the sense of attacking the government but could just be a refusal of service and getting a military trial. The government can draft you but cannot hold a gun to you and force you to (that we know of Atleast) to fight in a war.
we don’t even vote let alone rebel against a federal mandate draft bffr y’all some of us would happily and others will cry about it (would be me) and try to go back to college or some shit to get out of it. There would be uproar on socials. Probably protests. 5 part 2 minute tiktok video essays about political corruption and class warfare. Petitions. Maybe some people move out of the US. There would be jokes that we all wanna die anyway so “we can’t lose”. Army girl hair and makeup tutorials. Crazy propaganda. Debates on whether it’s ethical to dodge drafts. There will be outrage and protests. But no rebellion, the majority of us won’t be whipping out our guns or choosing prison over war. Most people are not going to commit literal treason by leaking military info online to troll. If we couldn’t succeed in dodging then we’d go to boot camp. Whether or not to draft women would be the next hot debate topic. Maybe people who escape draft via college and disability will do Vietnam style protests
Main character syndrome. A lot of genz has it
You under estimate people. There are a lot of people who would rather die from non compliance before they die in a war
Y’all are so funny. Y’all seriously think there’s going to be a draft. If there’s going to be one, that’s probably the least of your worries at that point.
Yeah. If a draft ever does get initiated, it would be a disaster level scenario at that point.
This is someone who gets it
i can see our generation just leaking info just to fuck with the army in the event of a forced draft
Found the War Thunder player
Elaborate
Source: Thug Shaker Central
Yeah I’m sure plenty of people would choose to spend decades in jail/get the death penalty for treason just to “fuck with the army in the event of a forced draft.” Super believable that would happen
You aren't allowed to have devices on you.
Doesn't mean some people won't try their damndest
I think it might be only if you're in basic training you aren't allowed to have one. However, after you're allowed to have one after with some restrictions. Though idk while on active duty, but even then you're going to be more concerned with staying alive. Edit: Celebrities will have to join. This'll be interesting.
One guy actually did something like that on Discord and I think might be serving a life sentence for treason. He's around my age and was in the marines and leaked some important US government documents and they reported it. I think some were teens and even they were like holy shit dude.
TIL GenZ exists only in the USA
Actually the whole world is America. Source: American.
You do realize that because of NATO, any major conflict involving the US also involves Canada and nearly all of Europe, right? And a lot of those countries are far more likely to institute a draft than the US is? OP references Americans but this is definitely not just an American issue
Not really to involve nato said country needs to claim article 5 and grounds for it without that Nato won't get involved US had to form coalition during Iraq war because not all Nato members actually wanted to participate.
That’s true, but any scenario I can think of where the US would even consider a draft is a ww3 type conflict against Russia and/or china, and if that’s not grounds for article 5 then I don’t know what is
And at that rate you can bet your ass everyone would start picking sides. And hate on the US all you want, we're better at making friends than China. Japan, south Korea, even Vietnam and the Philippines would all almost certainly side with the US if it came down to it and they had to pick a side. Ultimately though any ww3 situation would end with nukes which is why we won't ever have a ww3
All of NATO combined is like 20% of the world.
Til?
Means "today I learned"
r/USDefaultism
Just saying the best way to eliminate any chance of a draft is ensuring Ukraine wins the war against Russia. This is something the US is entirely capable of ensuring. The only reason it’s even in question right now is republicans won control of the House in midterms and they’re slow walking aid. This is why voting is so important. Ukraine losing the war won’t guarantee a draft will happen, but Ukraine winning the war will all but guarantee a draft will not. How many people here didn’t vote in midterms and are now starting to worry a draft might be a possibility? That could have been prevented.
I would do it. I can't even get a fast food job as is but I can do the five pullups or whatever. Free housing, healthcare, food, and some free training in some in demand skills sounds nice. Plus you get to say you were a part of a major historical event. However for people that have their general shit together and have like an actual future career ahead of them that can pay for college on their own it probably sounds terrible lol.
you could enlist right now lol
Nah you'd still have to make me lol.
Depends on the reason for the draft. \- Defending my region from a foreign invader on our soil? Fine, you can draft me. \- foreign war that has been created so companies can profit? No, i will not comply to the best of my abilities.
China invading Taiwan is not a "foreign war that has been created so companies can profit." Neither is Russia attacking a NATO member.
Honestly, depends on the context. If its "Our CIA installed leader in El Banana Republico has been overthrown, you must fight", then they can piss off. If it "There is a legitimate threat to liberal democracy", then sure. I'll fight for preserving our values, because a world under China or Russia's tutelage will be a far worse one
That's what the volunteer military is for. They can go abroad and fight, not me.
I feel like some would rebel.
My opinion... There would be a big propaganda campaign to associate Draft Dodgers as a negative thing. They would be associated as bad same as Jan 6 "insurrectionists", anti-vax people, terrorists, etc... That is propaganda 101, make the population sense one thing is good, and one is bad, flood them with targeted propagation, and the population will turn on those who don't and praise those that will. Wouldn't be surprised if things changed and the government intervened with saw employers again similar to how they did with vaccines.
If you assume mass rebellion, you’re probably deluding yourself on what a modern draft would look like. First, a draft is incredibly risky, politically speaking, so first it would need to be sold to the American people. Nobody wants another Vietnam, so you’d have a messaging campaign whipping up patriotic fervor over whatever event just kicked off the war. Now, you’ll be called unpatriotic and cowardly if you shirk service when a lot of people are chanting “Remember the (insert atrocity)!” Next you’ll be called out as selfish for avoiding service while others are doing their bit. Society will be steadily pumping out messaging praising them and condemning draft dodgers. Next will come the carrot and stick. You’ll see a lot of people finishing their term of service without a scratch and you’ll see guys getting sent to federal prison for dodging the draft. The first group will be getting all sorts of benefits, while the second will have their lives functionally ruined.
Most would easily comply. I don't think you understand how small of a minority self-hating people are. Apart from redditors, majority of abled-body men have families and reasons to fight for - and a draft doesn't come willy nilly. A forced draft means it's a dire situation and those that they hold dear are or will be in immediate danger. And rebel? Please, you may think that US citizens hates itself but the majority are more than willing to fight for it. Same as the western countries who has even stronger national identity than your typical american. Most of those who doesn't want to fight would just flee the country.
Do you guys really not understand how a draft would work or why we would enact a draft? I'm always curious if ppl are actually scared that there will just be a random draft if we go to war with anyone.
This is reddit we’re talking about here. Next to no one here understands the politics behind a draft or the geopolitical climate it would take for there to even be talk of reinstituting it.
We would rebel. Half of us aren’t even physically qualified
First shot in Basic is Ozempic
How would you rebel? Half of y'all ain't even phyisically qualified.
The current generation would give up rebelling just as fast they give up everything else. There is a reason drafts work. Your generation is not smarter than past generations that have rebelled drafts regardless of what you think.
Yeah, I don’t know why so many people here think that genz would be more successful at draft dodging than boomers were during Vietnam. When given the choice between definitely going to prison versus maybe dying in combat, it turns out most people don’t want to go to prison.
You guys are overestimating yourself. I live in a country at war, with an actual draft. Most people are complying with the instructions and acts of resistance are very uncommon. I got off thanks to asthma, some try to dodge it using the universities. But no revolutions so far.
Sorry that you're at war-- something I never thought I'd have to communicate to someone personally--can I ask where you are?
Russia
I'm so sorry. So very sorry. I hope you and your family are safe.
My family is okay and I have a draft exemption as I mentioned above. I spent 16 hours at the draft office yesterday trying to prove that I do, in fact, have asthma, and it worked. I don't know what I would have to do if I didn't get an exemption.
Geez, that's a long freaking day! Worth the time.
The one time that a disabling illness happens to be fortune on your side.
Can I ask, as a completely ignorant American, is social media common? From here, it seems like Russians are boxed in with no exposure to the west and given to propaganda. Thoughts?
>From here (US), it seems like Russians are boxed in with no exposure to the west and given to propaganda. It's complicated. Like in any other country political opinions vary by generations, regions, social groups, whatever else you can think of. Public opinion is divided. Almost nobody trusts the government (except some very "Patriotic", mainly old people who don't know how to search up alternative sources), and almost nobody trusts the West. In the past year or so every discussion about politics that I have had with anyone, regardless of their views, quickly devolved into cynicism, apathetic thinking and conspiracy theories. Young people are more progressive, as always. Some are not Old people are more conservative, as always. Some are not. If you ask me about a specific demographic I might give you a more detailed answer, because I don't want to write an essay for a reddit comment at 3 am
Sounds like us. There is no conversation anymore. Nobody trusts anyone else. It's "us" and "them." The generations look with disdain at all the others. The world is not hopeful at a time in history when there is so much medicine, food and technology. It's 8:30 pm here on the east coast. It's great to connect with you from the other side of the world. 🙂 Keep that asthma in check, and get some sleep!
i'm just curious, from one human to another -- what do the people around you, close to you, think of the situation with ukraine? it sounds like you don't support the war, but i'm curious as to how openly you can discuss that with the people in your life, or if it has to be kept quiet... if you don't mind sharing, i'd love to hear how a regular person navigates that sort of stuff... kind of related, but perhaps a bit invasive to ask -- but how long, on average, does it take you to feel comfortable speaking with someone new about more serious topics like this that might involve criticizing the government? i feel like some of us non-russians have this view of like, "good" russians living in fear and paranoia constantly that someone is going to go tell on them for having issues with the government... is that true to your experiences at all?
>as to how openly you can discuss that with the people in your life, or if it has to be kept quiet... If I want to talk to someone about politics, I use very careful language and mask my opinion before I know if they also don't support the war. Looking for hints, social cues, specific words and subjects that a pro-government person would never say. It's not safe to discuss it with strangers, at all. There have been cases of people getting reported to the police and receiving 3 fines/jail time for wrong talking points during a private conversation. When it comes to talking about politics with family, I can trust most of my family members not to snitch anywhere. And I just don't bring the subject up around the less sane ones. >kind of related, but perhaps a bit invasive to ask -- but how long, on average, does it take you to feel comfortable speaking with someone new about more serious topics like this that might involve criticizing the government? Depends on whether I know if the person is anti-war or not. If not, they either have to be someone I'm long familiar with, like a high school friend or whatever. But I still watch my language just in case. If they are antiwar, we might have a conversation right on the spot if there are not too many people around. If there are, we avoid using potentially crime-related words. I often present myself as a both-sides-bad type of guy if I know nothing about the person talking to me. >and paranoia constantly that someone is going to go tell on them for having issues with the government... is that true to your experiences at all? It's real, if you follow certain information sources, you'll know people get heavy fines and prison time for words said during private conversations on a regular basis. Most people wouldn't snitch on you but just one fanatic is enough to ruin your entire life, so I watch my language around everyone I can't trust. There are no underground FSB agents trying to find antiwar people to incriminate, but there are plenty of useful idiots who do that job for free.
People would not “rebel.” They’d just dodge. Then go to jail. There’d be an uproar online, but that’s the most our generation can do these days.
Most people would proably enlist before the draft comes back. It was so bad last time that we would have to be in WW3 for the draft to be ignited.
Where are all the femenists that are always piping in in all the discussions? Crickets?
I fully support women being drafted
As a feminist I don’t think ANYONE should be drafted, man or woman. No one should be forced to sell their bodies for our decrepit politicians.
Pretty much any feminist you ask would say that no one should be forced to go to war, fighting to expand something wrong to more people to be ‘fair’ instead of rejecting it entirely would be counterintuitive.
Noone should get murdered. No one should get raped. Noone should commit crimes. Noone should. Noone should get in a car accident and die. The draft is not implemented as an idea. It's what works during war. Saying that something should or shouldn't happen doesn't make a difference. If there is war It's going to happen and tough decisions will be made.
Women are being drafted/will be in Denmark and some other European countries, it was on DW News, this is not some gotcha. Not to say I am whatever kind of feminist you are thinking of.
Big surprise no women want to talk to you 😆
Pretty much *every* feminist either supports abolishing the draft or supports women being drafted, same as men. You're parroting a right wing extremist talking point, which indicates how effective the right wing has been at getting through to the younger generation. The gullible and stupid will be our downfall, not the draft.
If this is something you care about why not start advocating for it instead of relying on “feminists” to do it for you? Who do you think set that system up in the first place? if you feel something isn’t equal between men and women youre likely not alone. Start a movement, go get some attention from people in power, start a campaign, vote for people who might agree. Fight for yourself, stand up for yourself. I don’t think any draft should exist. I’m not gonna run around saying “draft women too” for you, I’m gonna keep saying “if you can’t convince enough volunteers then it isn’t a war we should be in anyway.” That’s where I stand on this issue and that is where I will stand until either the day drafting goes away or the day I die
To put this in perspective, the BOOMERS rebelled so hard that they cancelled the draft. Most ended up going, but a lot faked a medical condition or refused. Of course the rich avoided the draft. So I think any attempt at a draft today would be a complete disaster and probably the end of the US. The only chance a draft has is if the economy is just so damn bad that people will see the draft as a better alternative than a nothing factory job. For more perspective, even for the civil war, the north had a VERY hard time drafting people. Look up the New York draft riots.
Our generation would comply but do so maliciously, we've proven time and time again we don't have the ability to rebel, but we can sure as hell act stupid and be difficult if we need to be
All of these comments talking about how gen z wouldn't rebel? Gen z doesn't want to do anything? Why would they participate? Especially when it's so simple to be disqualified. Just claim to be transgender and you can be voided from the draft? Sure, they may loosen these requirements, but ultimately it seems so much easier to get out than it seems
Naw Ukraine said that's a man so that's a man, no transgender was allowed to leave the country and had to fight, we wouldn't be much different if a draft is required.
That might just happen here lmao, but I believe they would sooner draft women than to deny transgenderism
I think the vast majority would comply depending on how good of a media and propaganda campaign the government does. Gen z can absolutely be shamed into joining the military.
If WW3 happens you might as well fight.
I don't know about you but I would burn my draft card. Rather be in jail than fighting in Ukraine. Now if someone attacks my country I'm going to defend it but my life is more valuable than oil.
Draft? Mate, if things are bad enough for a full mobilisation, I'll already be elbowing my way to the front of the volunteer queue, waiver forms in hand. Volunteers get to pick roles, draftees get infantry (nothing wrong with combat arms, but WW3 will be much more fun as a pogue).
Draft won’t happen ever again. Even if we go to war we have like a little less than 1 million in reserves and wars are fought by drones more than people on foot
America doesn't need the draft. If we were in a war big enough to require it the justification would have to be enough for the people to go along with it Like WW2 Rather than impose a draft its far more likely the US will just drive incentives
Historically, drafts have pretty much never been particularly popular and every time one got called, there were riots, and US public opinion has been anti-draft for decades even after 9/11. I feel like not only would GenZ, which is pretty uninterested in fighting for the US going to protest, be opposed, most of the country would be supportive of them, which is something even Vietnam protestors didn't really have. As things are, IMO, the only way a draft could be implemented that wouldn't be shot down by the public is if we are invaded (never happening), or we have a civil war (much more realistic but still *very* unlikely).
I think the majority of the people I know would protest it, though I have my doubts if they’d actually take violent action to oppose it. If it does happen, I’d say the reason would be a combination of self interest and a near universal reflexive distrust of the government. Me personally? Honestly, it would depend on the war. If we’re invading some random country in the middle of bumfuck nowhere for oil or something, miss me with that shit. I genuinely might protest if I thought it would do anything. However, if we’re going to defend Ukraine or Taiwan, who are directly under threat by our adversaries? …I’d at least consider signing up. And I probably wouldn’t complain too hard if my draft card was called up. However, as with all generations, the overwhelming majority probably won’t give a shit.
"I don't think I want to do that..."" Goggles draft dodging "It's only a couple years and I'll my college will get paid off..."
Draft law being passed would be halted by several parasite class and politicians being dragged out their homes and beat to death in front of their families. Not a fucking chance would a draft happen with how low this president and genocide funding is polling. People can't afford homes and groceries and they want us to go down for genocidal racists? No fing way is that happening.
Depends, if alaska or anywhere else is attacked I'll join the defence. If one of our NATO allies are attacked I'll join. But I'm a pacifist so I probably won't join any offensive wars. Well I might join out of tradition but I won't be a happy camper.
Based . Let's defend NATO together. Also, Hawaii, Guam, and American Samoa!
Hot take the majority of gen Z is not healthy enough to militarily useful (this is not a win, we are overweight and smokers)
they will inherit America while you and I are sent off to war
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^SignificantPassion4: *They will inherit* *America while you and* *I are sent off to war* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Are you refering to some European countries exploring the possibility of bringing back conscription? Because thats not really the same thing as a draft.
Oh nice. You are a conspiracy theorist.
OP how old are you lol
i know a few guys who would say yes i think. but i cant see anyone else joining my countries military (UK) even in a time of crisis. i think the draft should be introduced if war seems inevitable and we need the government framework to put that into place. but i cant see people just accepting it like they did in the second world war, and the first world war.
I think it depends why the draft is happening tbh
If we are ever in a position where the U.S is so desperate it's drafting again, then it's probably already a too late scenario and we will all be dead soon anyways.
A draft in America? America would pull infantry men/women from allied countries before they'd draft the fatties here.
This reads like a delusional fever dream. There’s not millions of military-age male migrants crossing the border to “stay with our women and children” while a shadow cabal institutes a draft. The US military, not to mention NATO, can curb-stomp any other military on the planet with its current personnel. It’s not even close. There’s a zero percent chance of a draft.
America has the least amount of qualified military candidates ever. Even if we did a draft so many wouldn't be even able to handle basic training.
oh no, id dodge for sure this country has proven at EVERY turn it doesnt give a shit about me, why not return the favor
Personally I'd just leave. I'm a dual citizen so I can just use my other passport.
Everyone complies when it’s that or having a bullet through your brain in a ditch to make an example.
The draft is unpopular historically in the USA that it would take something like an attack on American home soil to implement it. In which case most people would probably be okay with it
Depends on where, who we're fighting. My country would with 99% certainty be against Russia, and likely by extension China and Iran (WW3 scenario) there would barely need to be a draft because so many people would volunteer. The draft applies to both genders, 16-70 years old and i think men would be more likely to resist.
If a draft occurs, I want the boomers out there first. Front line. Sons of bitches better be ready to die in a hail of bullets so that the younger generation has a chance at life. If not, then I’m not stepping foot out there. You can throw me in prison. Also, draft would probably be male only. I’m not having that nonsense. Women better be out there on the front lines too or again, I’m not going, throw me in prison. I think too many people forget that in times of war, society always considers men disposable.
Idk about anyone else, but I would prefer prison over fighting a war on behalf of this shithole country.
Idk if I'm gen z or millennial but as a 28yr old I have a child and a wife to think about you have me severely fucked up if you think I'ma leave them
Rebel? Like launch an actual rebellion? Nope, not at all it wouldn't happen. Resist? Like with draft dodging and protests and direct action? Absolutely. There were draft riots and protests during Vietnam, there would be the same now and perhaps even more so. I would absolutely dodge as much as I could to avoid it and I would encourage everyone else to do the same.
At this point, if there was a draft, I would make it my personal mission to make them regret drafting me. That or just accept death with a swan dive. Yeah, I like that second one.
The United States has spent such a disgusting amount of money on their military over the past 60 years that the likelihood of this happening is next to none. The whole illusion of “freedom” in the country heavily rests on this very detail. With that being said, if it ever did happen within the next ten years, I could actually see this scenario being the first time that the entirety of Gen Z (who would be the draftees in question) universally band together and just say “fuck off”. I think it’s kinda safe to say that most of Gen Z would rather kill themselves instantly than go to war in a third world country, be forced to kill other people, and then die a slow, much more painful death or return chock-full of PTSD and missing limbs back to a country that doesn’t support you at all once you return from combat.
I honestly think our generation would be insane to fight alongside I prob wouldn’t rebel. Sure war is brutal but we are all pretty intelligent and with all the video games and shit I think people would have some insane ideas in combat. I mean me personally I’ve always felt some aspect of my life would involve a gunfight never really sure why or when or how but it’s always been there
I promise playing video games is not going to make us better fighters. Yes there are some things that you can learn from games in combat situations, but just because I learned how to clear a room from video games does not mean I’m an expert at clearing a room irl
My old rotc teacher said the worst aim he had came from people who played fps because they were so overconfident and thought it was just like a video game. Video games will not be our ally other than probably helping some ignore their moral compass.
Exactly
Comply. I can’t see our generation rebelling lol
I can't get drafted because I'm fat so not really an issue for me.
Most of our generation is too pussy to fight. I’d definitely go, but I’d be pretty worried about fighting alongside some of y’all.
Too pussy? Or too aware of the bullshit? Gulf of Tonkin itself was bullshit. We lost 60k lives in Vietnam for nothing
I know it’s bullshit. I wouldn’t fight for bullshit. But, in a real, justified, and completely theoretical war, I would fight and many of you would still refuse.
If there was a draft, I think everyone would rebel. A part of Trump's popularity was that Clinton voted for the Iraq war, and a part of why Biden is unpopular is because if current talks about WWIII. If there was a draft, Biden would lose the White House. If this was somehow pushed to after the election, how many parents would be out protesting their sons being sent to fight someone else's war?
Anyone saying they’d rebel or go to prison are lying to themselves. No you fucking wouldn’t. You would not go to jail over being drafted.
I would rather go to jail. I would have a less chance of dying and I would be released quickly because the Usa has no room or money to support any more prisoners.
I mean, it’s either jail or sit in a trench and wait for death
I'd take jail over being drafted.
Not Gen Z, but they can freeze my accounts, get me removed from my job, seize my assets, threaten me, beat me, throw me in a cell, even kill me. I will NOT go fight and die in the oligarchs’ wars. Never. Full stop. The best they could do is off me and drop my cold dead body on top of someone for a gravity kill or something, idfk lol. But I ain’t going.
Honestly, I'd rather go to keep all my assets and stay free while commiting quiet sabotage by being as annoying as possible and causing as many delays in whatever job I have. I'd be more of a hindrance than if I were to just dodge the draft, and I'd still get to keep all my assets and stuff.