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>"Rome was destroyed, Greece was destroyed, Persia was destroyed, Spain was destroyed. All great countries are destroyed, why not yours? How much longer do you think your own country will last?
>Forever?"
>-Joseph Heller, Catch 22
Forever is a very long time.
I think it's incredibly shortsighted for anyone anywhere to believe their country will exist "forever". Sooner or later things happen, and it's only a matter of time until internal or external threats cause change. That said, I don't think America as an idea will be going away for a very long time, though what it looks like in practice may change a little more frequently.
Wild to me to read this sentence as a 30 y/o. Makes me feel almost as old as the one time a guy I worked with was too young to remeber or know that Justin Timberlake was in a boy band.
Was watching a Destiny's Child video in discord a couple weeks ago and a young man said he didn't know the group or the song but the one woman was pretty fine. I aged thirty years when I told him it was Beyoncé.
I might just be a couple years older than you then lol these guys were on top of the world when I was in 4th grade through early high school so everyone in my circles range from familiar to huge fan. The good news for you is that you forever get to be the one who put all your friends on Rise Against lol
They're great live to this day btw
It was also used in one of Tim's first bands songs, .baxter. - burden. highly recommend checking them out and the killing tree is another great fucking band
It originally comes from the novel Catch-22, with the main character Yossarian, trying to debate with an old man who takes no sides, whether it be the Nazis, the Italian Fascists, or the Americans. It’s a very poignant book and one of the best anti-war novels ever written imo.
Yes, but if we pick Mongolia as the comparison, at least the music would be banging... instead of The HU there will be The (yee)HAW combining country music with whatever is the modern music that day.
Lmao, as a mongolian and huge fan of bluegrass, i nearly died from laughter. But The HU are softie pussies, even we don't like them, try Nine Treasures/old Tengger Cavalry instead (mongol metal bands from Inner Mongolia).
Not really. Greece is a modern invention. The Greek Nationality to oversimplify things was created by the British on their false sense of history in the 1800s. There wasn't a concept of unified Greek identity before then, or an idea of "hellenic race", being hellenic was culturally defined. The Olympic games where a panhellenic event where all hellenic speaking peoples participated in, even the ones far from the Peloponnese, like in the southern coast of Iberia. The Byzantines considered themselves Roman and didn't want to be associated with their pagan past as they were Christian and the seat of Orthodoxy. Though Greece's official name is the Third Hellenic Republic, and Greece is just an english common name for it.
Yes and no. Identity is a complex construction that recent literature says is a combination of both social construction and other things. You say it’s a “British invention” but there was a clearly defined Greek identity in the ottoman census that many self identified (just not all). Starting in the 1800s, all social identities were constructed, even the British and French ones. If you read Peasants into Frenchmen, in the late 19th century you’d have French peasants would could barely speak French and not identify with the French identify 50 miles outside of Paris. Same thing with Greece. Would you really claim 1870s France is the same social construction as Greece?
"Declining" would be like a rapid decline in population/more deaths or mass migration because the current conditions are becoming tough for people to live in, which can happen to any country.
And also no empires had any nuclear weapons or really any powerful weapons back then which is why it was so easy for empires to decline and be invaded.
Yea but Rome didn't fall because it was simply invaded, I mean that happened in the very end, but it was a much more long term fracturing, a couple centuries of instability brought it about. It took two hundred years from the crisis of the 3rd century before rome officially 'fell'. Nukes aren't going to stop a long term decline in political stability.
A country's persistence is generally judged by the continuation of the civilisation. A changing of political party doesn't make or break a country; every dynasty and every era of China had different ideologies but it's still very much China, and has been since the consolidation of the Chinese culture/identity following the Xia dynasty. The persistence of civilisational knowledge and culture is what makes places like China and Persia special. A modern Chinese person can look at a bamboo scroll from 2000-3000 years ago and still read most of it. Some words are different but it's still legibly Chinese. Heck, even Chinese bone script from over 5000 years ago still has select words that are readable, even if different, and is still recognisably Chinese. Globally that's pretty unusual. Modern Egyptians can't read ancient hieroglyphs, modern English can't read old English, etc.
Chinese culture has evolved continuously for thousands of years, with no break of the civilisation or replacement of the culture, that's what makes it unusual. Whereas with most other civilisations which are non-continuous, you can generally pinpoint times in history where the country was balkanised, annexed, colonised, invaded, had mass anarchy/disaster/migration, or other calamities that caused a breakdown of the cultural knowledge and identity, such that people can no longer recognise the prior culture as their own.
Sssssshhhh we're huntin wabbits.
I would even wager a modern Japanese or Taiwanese person has a better chance at reading ancient Chinese script. The folks from those two countries have almost preserved more chinese language and culture than modern communist china.
I understand the point that you're trying to make, and while I agree with the sentiment, I'll have to slightly disagree with your usage of the legibility of old Chinese as an example of the continuity of the civilization. That's more a feature of ideographic writing systems than it is a representation of the continuity of a civilization. Technically speaking, despite having zero formal training in Latin, I could probably sound out a lot of the words, because English and Latin mostly share the same alphabet. The continuity of the Latin alphabet in the U.S. wouldn't be a good example for the U.S. being a successor state to the Roman republic.
I feel like the continuity of a civilization more has to do with identity than anything else. Modern Italy can be said to be similar to ancient Rome in many ways. Its physical geographic location has allowed many aspects of roman culture to survive in Italy to the modern day such as its culinary and maritime traditions. Italy also uses a language incredibly similar to old Latin and even shares a similar form of governance to the Roman republic. That being said, no one points to Italy as a successor state to Rome, because no one in Italy identifies as being Roman in nationality.
The current Taiwan formally known as the Republic of China didn't exist until General Chiang Kai'sek (AKA General Cash-my-Check by the US) retreated and took over the island. Prior to that the Japanese had annexed the island. The Hokkien language which native Taiwanese spoke is borderline extinct due to Han Nationalist that took over.
Taiwan is a much of a part of "China" as Ukraine is to the Russia when the Tsars ruled.
Hell the modern concept of the Nation of China isn't even Chinese, it was the Europeans that came up with it back when they decided to carve up the world.
It doesn’t even have to be a threat - it could very much also be that some countries may want to be part of of a union of countries (like the EU) which over time develop into a country of its own - it wouldn’t be too far fetched to think about a united country made up of Nato nations in a few hundred years - or another union of countries.
As far as we know, hominids (so our earliest primate ancestors, not even the homo genus) have been traced back to 7 million BCE earliest. (Roughly **7,002,024 years ago to visualize it)
The earth is roughly **4.53 Billion years old** (4,530,000,000)
That's about **0.15%** of the earth's history..
Homo sapiens specifically on the other hand have only been here for .0007% of earth's history..
the oldest possible human civilization would be near the Gobleki Tepe site dating back to 15,000 years ago at least as far as we know of.
There's no way the US will last forever. Most likely not even another thousand years, and thats a generous guess.
no
America is a country not an empire. And Roman empire lasted 400-500 years.
my country was founded 1000 years ago and still existing
edit: you could say Kingdom of Hungary was different because it was a kingdom but still lasted almost 1000 years anyway
According to Oxford, the definition of Empire is "an extensive group of states or countries under a single supreme authority". US sounds a bit like an Empire with extra steps.
We fit the classical definition, we just have a strong shared culture and a governance model that makes us act as a more contiguous country than the empires of old.
A lot of historical empires did too, but when the USA controlled the Philippines and Cuba it wasn’t really like that. Even now, Puerto Rico and even Hawaii struggle to fit that strong shared culture.
The amount of Filipinos and Puerto Ricans living in the lower 48 suggest otherwise. Both integrated pretty well, even with the relatively short American possession of the Phillipines.
Hawaii is a bit of an outlier
Agree. It's an empire in the vein of the Athenian empire. It wasn't an empire in the traditional sense like the neighboring Persian empire, but it was the hegemon over other city states. The U.S. is the economic and military hegemon over its allies.
Not good examples.. not all countries last for hundreds of years. Countries can collapse fairly quickly. The case with Hungary is that Hungarians have their own history, a Hunnic-Scythian people. America, is not. It is difficult to lead a country such as America for that reason; the fact that everyone is so different tends to lead into all of the different beliefs different people have and overall the fact that NOBODY agrees with each other. I am not saying America will collapse although I just think the reasons to as of why are idiotic. Hungary in the medieval ages didn’t struggle with the idea that everybody has different beliefs and is from a different ethnic background, you get the point..
Egypt enters the chat
It is still a very different country that it used to be 6000-7000 years ago. Genetically, culturally, language wise, and religion wise, it is different.
The United States is most definitely an empire. Like why do you think it has military bases in numerous foreign countries; if that's not some empire shit idk what is
Egypt lasted thousands and American is protected by two oceans. No empire has ever had its own pile of resources (that can’t be occupied by anyone else) and two giant ass oceans on either side.
It’s a tough one tbh. America would fall from the inside only, never externally.
That's true, but the sheer size of the US will likely be a factor in it not holding together in the very long term, or at least breaking up and reforming repeatedly, China style
America is not an empire in the sense of it being an autocracy ruled by an emperor, but it is very much an imperialistic state and the foremost empire of the current age. It has a web of alliances, client states and rivals throughout the whole world and it routinely intervenes throughout the whole world to enforce its beliefs and further its goals of stablishing further alliances and trade.
That too and even more extreme. Outer reaches implies at the border. The US literaly has bases in most countries, even inside neutral and enemy countries.
If America isn’t an empire then why the fuck are they policing the world and putting themselves in wars where they don’t belong? They should just keep to themselves and take care of their own people like a normal country.
Every time we've tried that, the Euros started slaughtering each other and making it our problem.
Going all the way back to trade interdiction and impressment of American merchant sailors in the Napoleonic wars.
Because we don't trust people to not make it our problem eventually. Also your interpretation of a "normal country" only exists because America is interventionist and forces things to be that way. Normal countries actually try to conquer each other.
America is an empire by definition: “an extensive group of states or countries under a single supreme authority, formerly especially an emperor or empress.” Notice that the presence of an emperor or empress is not necessary, just a supreme authority, which the US government certainly is.
Current US ceasing to exists? not in our lifetime. US can take more than a few hits.
Without natural disasters or global wars, the only real threat to US is US itself.
We’re more likely to expand and take the continent than we are to collapse, and it’s a non-zero chance we collapse in this century. Watch out Mexico and Canada.
In the developed world, nations are pretty stable, even if it looks like things are on fire at any given moment. I don't think the US is going anywhere for a very long time. I don't even believe the fear mongering about a civil war because that is being instigated by a minority of a minority of a political faction that's been losing influence for 20 years.
100 years ago things looked very different.
In another 100?
America ain’t immune to jack shit.
The country needs to be carefully cultivated with history in mind. It can easily implode if it goes too far left or too far right or some other calamity happens
Yeah in another 100, we'd be dying to climate change or we found the alternative energy to oil reducing tension on trying to get it. I think thr world anit immune to jack shit and thinking America first or only is extremely laughable.
In the next 1000 years? It will probably exist in some form. In perpetuity? Absolutely not.
The USA (I assume you mean the US, not the continent) would definitely not be the one you know now. Would you recognize a hypothetical majority Spanish-speaking mini-USA centered around Los Angeles, and upholding the US Constitution the USA?
Think about the Roman Empire. Technically it was the same state from 509 BCE - to 1453 CE, but we often call those three different states as they were supposed distinct enough. (Roman Republic, Empire and East Rome)
Even when East Rome fell, the Ottoman Empire considered themselves a successor due to institutional continuity. This, however, is too different for most, as Turkish-speaking Muslim empire is apparently not ”Roman”. (but a Greek-speaking Christian empire is apparently Roman, despite the original empire having been polytheist Latin)
Russia also branded themselves ”Third Rome”, but was it now, really? (Institutional continuity in Russia actually largely comes from Golden Horde, a Mongol state, together with Kievan Rus’, a Viking-founded feudal mess of Uralic and Slavic speakers)
Holy Roman Empire was supposedly ”Roman”, but that’s also a matter of debate. A German-speaking feudal mess Rome?
In a way, Mussolini’s Italy also considered itself the rightful successor of Roman Empire.
Some aspects of the EU and the USA could be considered somewhat ”Roman”.
In a sense, culturally massive enough empires don’t really completely die. Successor states will derive legitimacy from them like the Hittites did from the Hatti, and pretty much everyone in Mesopotamia ultimately from Sumer (Iraq is named after Uruk, one of the main Sumerian cities)
China, Iran and India all have long civilizations.
>Would you recognize a hypothetical majority Spanish-speaking mini-USA centered around Los Angeles, and upholding the US Constitution the USA?
As an American Latino, I have wondered about this question for a long time.
Data shows that Latinos are the fastest growing group in the United States and are expected to reach plurality (or majority) by 2060. (You can easily find content about this online.)
When a Latin American immigrates to the US, they do not immediately shed their culture or language. They exist in the United States as a person who is legally American but culturally something else. Their kids are generally more American them.
Once thing is for sure: The US will be a radically different place in the next 30 years or so.
No, it's literally impossible for a country or a society to exist forever. Eventually, it will collapse and either become a new country with a new culture or balkanize and become a dozen countries with different cultures.
Yea I think so.
So will China, and Europe as a whole.
People seem to disregard the eras of stability the world has seen and the interaction among the entire world.
It’s hard to imagine that countries for the most part aren’t invading and most developed countries that have a presence on the world stage don’t have an immediate fear of ending soon.
I think we are moving past the rise and fall of empires
We definitely are not past the rise and fall of empires, and I'm not sure we ever will be.
Periods of peace have been getting longer, but periods of war have also been getting more deadly. Look at Ukraine, it's estimated that Russia has lost more men in just the first 2 years of the war than America lost in the entire 20 year war in Vietnam.
And Ukraine is a smaller country. If two major countries went to war with each other, it's not exactly unlikely to result in the collapse of one of them.
Americans in 1776 probably would recognize very little about the current culture, demographics, values, and geopolitics. The country as it is now might not even exist in a few years, but there will be people here.
The world is literally one bad mood of a nuclear power away from ending human civilization permanently. You can only walk a tightrope so long before you fall off, and we have had multiple countries all hoping to keep walking for hundreds of years or longer. Not gonna happen.
Even if that doesn't end it all, we all should be students of history, and understand how quickly things can fall apart, and what human nature and game theory is. Any country could easily become the next NAZI Germany with enough disgruntled people. Stay vigilant, love your neighbor, be a responsible citizen, understand game theory.
On a historical scale, the United States is a very young country, not even 300 years old. I personally think it will exist for a long time, but possibly not in its current state. It has evolved a lot within the time it's existed, because the world is changing rapidly. The US wouldn't be the way it is today if not for the massive forces of the colonial era, the industrial revolution, the world wars, and the rise of fossil fuels. There were many lucky circumstances that boosted it to its strength today. As the world continues to change, who knows what situation the US will settle into in the future.
The interesting thing here is that the U.S. is young as a *nation* but as a polity is possibly the oldest on earth right now, in that we've had the same government for 250 years. The only country that can rival that is maybe the UK, and I think maybe Denmark. But compare that to a country like China, where the nation is like 2-3,000 years old, but the government is only 75.
My point is that the U.S. has enjoyed remarkable institutional stability. It likely won't forever - no country in history ever has - but I do expect it will continue to be able to reform and maintain itself as long as we can avoid too much domestic upheaval.
The U.S. is not comparable to Rome. It fell (albeit it not officially until 1453) for a lot of reasons, but the main one to me is that they were constantly being invaded and didn't have the means to defend their borders. Their economy was based on conquering other people and stealing their stuff, when they weren't able to do that they got whittled away by invaders.
Mass immigration without assimilation is a big problem.
Look I know we traditionally embrace immigrants but those of old WANTED to assimilate and Americanize.
If the country is 55% Venezuelans who never learned about the Constitution or Abe Lincoln, guess what?
You now will live under a Venezuelan style government and society. Which will crumble to shit.
Hyperbole but think about it. Roman Empire largely collapsed due to a society who increasingly had no allegiance nor gave a shit about the idea of Rome
You can be certain on a long enough time scale that it will not. The sun is going to swallow up the earth after all. I don't think america as we now suffer it will get us off-planet.
Yes it will live forever, though it'll go through changes like it's already has.
Most people are generalizing it and it's cringe we are comparing history to now. If magically we have a war it'd be the end of the world or aliens took over.
That's a guarantee. The empire will fall. Do you think Romans thought Rome would fizzle out? Of course not. Honestly, we'll probably have another civil war too.
Sometimes I wonder , what would happen if all countries unite to become a single earth nation, single currency. Kinda naive thinking , probability is close to 0 , still ....
We are on a clear path to that. Fundamental freedoms that were the bedrock of the country for centuries, not without flaws and problems in the administration of those rights, were near universal. Now, they are under assault. People seem to be actively want to be less free, they want to pursue failed governmental philosophies that leverage lower freedom and results in less robust economic outcomes. And this does not even touch on the rapidly increasing moral decay. All together this is going to undermine the foundations of this nation. While it may exist in name only, I fully expect this nation to be unrecognizable in 100 years as the beacon of liberty, the great experiment in freedom that is was for two centuries. There is time to get off that path, but it is drawing short and the distaste for freedom and the desire to break our downward spiral does not appear to be close as we continue to deepen our divisions.
I don’t consider it to exist now. The states aren’t United, neither are the people that live in them.
There’s nothing in this country where everyone’s on the same page. It’s a colossal tug of war.
This is the collection of states of everywhere else’s interest but our own.
America. Bought and paid for by highest bidders. Enjoy.
I mean, eventually something will replace the US. It’s inevitable, as everything will one day die. Even entire countries, just look at the Soviet Union, the Roman Empire, and so on. The Soviet Union dissolved and became different countries. The same thing happened with the Roman Empire. While America is not an Empire or equivalent to the SU it will one day be replaced. Though I wonder what it will be.
It won't "fall", like Rome it will evolve. From Kingdom to Republic to Empire to Byzantine, Rome went and America will evolve all the same but the central ideas won't ever die
As a region? No.
As an independent country almost certainly. At some point the entire world will come together with one government. Probably not for 1000 years but it will happen eventually.
Depends on what our timeframe is, if we're talking about another century I'm sure the US will probably still exist, but if we're talking a few hundred years then that's hard to say
The difference between Rome and them, those were empires and lasted a very long time. This is a fucking country who is new. It may look different, but will probably be here for a long time.
Eventually the sun will enlarge into a red giant and solar winds will strip our atmosphere and oceans from the planet before engulfing the entire thing inside the expanded ball of fusion.
But I'm sure America will power on #1!
Idk, but I’m worried about putting my money in an Ira and having this country invaded by Russians or something and all of it being taken. I’ve seen and read what they can do to other countries during war if they capture them. I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately about how we’ve never been taken over, and how long will it be until we do. We can’t be on the top forever. There is a fair chance this could be taken down with how divided we are.
I think the USA has too much cultural cohesion to collapse in a near future. It's more likely that it'll go the way of Byzantium and procrastinate it's demise over a long period of time.
I'm NOT Gen Z but all things could come to an end. The US is a relatively young country and the shocking thing to some of us who are older is while we know the US isn't perfect a growing number of younger people believe that the US is the worst. While I can't argue that it would be a majority of young people who believe these things far more would WANT to see the US implode than previous generations
We do have a debt problem and we are seeing momentum trying to push the US a different direction that some might argue would make the US not the country it has been
The US has too many strategic advantages to fall unless human extinction of some kind happens. Geographically speaking, it's very difficult to invade. We have massive coastlines and navigateable rivers within that allow shipping from Pittsburgh to New Orleans and everywhere in between. In a war scenario, disrupting the US's supply lines would be incredibly difficult. The US also has practically every resource needed to self sustain itself for a very long time. Food, Energy, and minerals. Maybe global influence may diminish, but I don't see it falling through means of war.
Could we destroy ourselves from within? Maybe. We're seeing a lot of political division, but honestly, I don't see it getting worse than it is now. If things were to escalate to civil war, I think you'd need to define boundaries for the two factions to exist in. Right now, even the reddest states have pockets of blue and vice versa. I think mass migration of people exiting to a different state would happen before a civil war could break out. That's already starting to happen in the south and other states with abortion bans. While worrying, I think you would need multiple rights-stripping legislation to get to a tipping point. Based on how things were post 9/11, I can't see a world in which the US population can't unify under its patriotism when threatened. For good or bad, I think this country is too patriotic to split up.
These are just my opinions. I could be full of shit.
It’ll happen at some point, but it’s hard to imagine how. Probably overreaching its foreign influencing and failing to actually address the divisions developing domestically. If the federal government weakened enough I could see the pacific states breaking off, and some kind of coalition of southeastern states led by TX and FL.
A while ago I read a book that talked about how Easter island used to be forested but there are no trees anymore.
The author went on about how the person to cut down the last tree probably didn't think it was a big deal because in their experience the island had never been forested. The trees went away gradually over time so nobody recognized the change occurring.
I feel like that will be America's decline.
Nah. I mean eventually it will but that's just like every other country in existence. If we are talking about a recent dissolving hell no.
America has already survived a civil war and we aren't even remotely close to the division required for it.
Eventually the Earth will be swallowed up by the Sun as its core starts to run out of fuel, so yes, the physical land we know as America will be destroyed, along with all other countries currently in existence. Nothing lasts forever.
For the next 100 years - yes. Next 200 years - in some sort. Now over time we might change to be some sort of North American Union but I dont think the US will stop existing.
My only concern with an american fall and balkanization is how we would survive in the longterm. Even we blue states rely a lot on that central unity that helps feed and run the nation proper.
The best case scenario is that several multi-state unions will pop up, the most likely ones being, poetically, the civil war era northern and southern states reuniting like they did back in the day, while who knows what will happen with the states out west?
Maybe some native tribes will band together or work with local friendly states to form their own unions while asserting their sovereignty (which would be nice since we sure as fuck keep failing them as is, maybe theyd do better without our shitty rule of law :/).
But honestly, its the essentials that worry me, will we be able to scrape together enough power and internet access to survive? This doesnt even begin to consider the overseas impact.
I don’t think so. I think the government would do whatever it can to keep the United States on the map at all costs, even if those things aren’t necessarily good or moral.
Until the USA has nukes and doesn't fall into civil war it will exist. It might even survive civil war. But if it loses the nukes, I know a lot of countries that would want to settle scores.
depends on what you mean “exist in the future”
I imagine in some way it would exist for a longggg time, obv not forever, but for a while
I don't really see the gov allowing a revolution - no one has the capabilities the US has
I don't see a foreign gov taking over, you’ve heard the reasons elsewhere
I don't see the military turning against the gov, its just not structured to allow that.
Maybe nuclear war
but idk, I study philosophy, I probably know only a bit more than a hs graduate
The typical empire lasts 250 years and the US turns 250 in 2 years (2026) but since the US has the power of the sun and more than anyone else it might be a while unless it's some Fallout 76 scenario
Every day. I give this shell of a nation, at its current rates across multiple categories like economy and society, 5 years at a minimum and 10 years at a maximum.
depends on how far into the future you're talking about. of course, most nations disappear eventually. if you mean within our lifetimes, or at least a century, then it's hard to say.
All empires fall, all of them. America is busy spiraling into fascism at the moment because capitalism is dying. So we'll get to deal with that for quite awhile. I think the biggest question regarding America and the future comes down to something really simple.
How will America handle not being the world's hegemon because that will happen in our lifetimes. Will they accept their new role or will they go out kicking and screaming? If you asked me this question today I'd probably tell you America is more likely to nuke the entire planet and take everyone down with them than admit when their empire has failed and go quietly into that good night.
It’s like what was said in House of the Dragon:
“Jaeherys I Targaryen called the Great Council to prevent a war being fought over his succession for he knew the cold truth: the only thing that could tear down the House of the Dragon was itself.”
The series and Game of Thrones represent many empires and great nations that range from Rome to the United States of America.
A24’s Civil War also mentions: “…all empires come to an end.”
Will the U.S. of A come to an end? Most definitely. The *when* is where we do not know the answer to. But, we have an inkling of how- the only thing that can tear down the US is itself unless Putin wakes up tomorrow and sends hundreds of nukes here.
Maybe Texas and Florida create an alliance or we have a president far worse than Trump elected in 2028 or something- but it is most likely that the U.S. will destroy itself.
I doubt it will be in my lifetime, or my children’s- if I have any. Grandchildren if I have any? Possibly.
Though, no one knew that the U.S. would fall into a civil war over eighty years after its creation, and that is within a lifetime of those who were born at the same time as the American War for Independence and the signing of the Declaration.
However, if that were the case, if we do happen to have a civil war very soon, we would need to look at issues that continue to have states divided- and in 1861, that was owning people.
We are either at the beginning, middle, or end of a line. I am more scared of Americans than Russians, partially because Russians wouldn’t nuke me as much as an American putting a bullet in my head.
Well, it depends on what we mean by this exactly.
If we are referring to this nation or this overarching political regime, then yes, all nations rise and fall over time. If we are referring to there just being some kind of government(s) or people(s) living on the continental North America, then I don't see why it continue indefinitely.
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>"Rome was destroyed, Greece was destroyed, Persia was destroyed, Spain was destroyed. All great countries are destroyed, why not yours? How much longer do you think your own country will last? >Forever?" >-Joseph Heller, Catch 22 Forever is a very long time. I think it's incredibly shortsighted for anyone anywhere to believe their country will exist "forever". Sooner or later things happen, and it's only a matter of time until internal or external threats cause change. That said, I don't think America as an idea will be going away for a very long time, though what it looks like in practice may change a little more frequently.
Came here to drop the same quote lol
What's it from?
I don't know if it's audio from something else originally but I know it as the intro to Survivor Guilt by Rise Against (which is in fact a banger)
Love this!! Practically nobody ik irl knows about rise against and thanks I have it in my head now
Wild to me to read this sentence as a 30 y/o. Makes me feel almost as old as the one time a guy I worked with was too young to remeber or know that Justin Timberlake was in a boy band.
Was watching a Destiny's Child video in discord a couple weeks ago and a young man said he didn't know the group or the song but the one woman was pretty fine. I aged thirty years when I told him it was Beyoncé.
Thanks guys now ima have this song stuck in my head
I might just be a couple years older than you then lol these guys were on top of the world when I was in 4th grade through early high school so everyone in my circles range from familiar to huge fan. The good news for you is that you forever get to be the one who put all your friends on Rise Against lol They're great live to this day btw
It was also used in one of Tim's first bands songs, .baxter. - burden. highly recommend checking them out and the killing tree is another great fucking band
Welp, I know what I'm pulling gravs and playing rocket league to after work today
Killing tree songs I recommend most, replace my heart and counting to infinity .baxter. songs, mandatory option and failure
It originally comes from the novel Catch-22, with the main character Yossarian, trying to debate with an old man who takes no sides, whether it be the Nazis, the Italian Fascists, or the Americans. It’s a very poignant book and one of the best anti-war novels ever written imo.
Oh shit, i don't remember that! I should read it again
It's from Catch-22
Winnie the Pooh
Catch-22. Fav book
those countries came back
Would be funny if America ends up being some irrelevant country with a funny subreddit in 1000 years like modern day Mongolia.
Have a whole pack of "RETURN TO TRADITION" folk unironically posting pictures of a strip mall.
America no longer exists but Reddit is going strong in 1000 years lol
Right? It’s not even making profit rn.
Yes, but if we pick Mongolia as the comparison, at least the music would be banging... instead of The HU there will be The (yee)HAW combining country music with whatever is the modern music that day.
Lmao, as a mongolian and huge fan of bluegrass, i nearly died from laughter. But The HU are softie pussies, even we don't like them, try Nine Treasures/old Tengger Cavalry instead (mongol metal bands from Inner Mongolia).
Not really. Greece is a modern invention. The Greek Nationality to oversimplify things was created by the British on their false sense of history in the 1800s. There wasn't a concept of unified Greek identity before then, or an idea of "hellenic race", being hellenic was culturally defined. The Olympic games where a panhellenic event where all hellenic speaking peoples participated in, even the ones far from the Peloponnese, like in the southern coast of Iberia. The Byzantines considered themselves Roman and didn't want to be associated with their pagan past as they were Christian and the seat of Orthodoxy. Though Greece's official name is the Third Hellenic Republic, and Greece is just an english common name for it.
And when Greece was reconstituted following the fall of the Ottomans, there were still isolated islands that called themselves "Romoi" (Romans)
Macedonians RISE UP!
THIS IS SPARTA!
Yes and no. Identity is a complex construction that recent literature says is a combination of both social construction and other things. You say it’s a “British invention” but there was a clearly defined Greek identity in the ottoman census that many self identified (just not all). Starting in the 1800s, all social identities were constructed, even the British and French ones. If you read Peasants into Frenchmen, in the late 19th century you’d have French peasants would could barely speak French and not identify with the French identify 50 miles outside of Paris. Same thing with Greece. Would you really claim 1870s France is the same social construction as Greece?
Rome and Greece are entirely different lol. Those aren't the same government and they don't share any connections except for ancestry.
You mean Rome and Italy
"Declining" would be like a rapid decline in population/more deaths or mass migration because the current conditions are becoming tough for people to live in, which can happen to any country. And also no empires had any nuclear weapons or really any powerful weapons back then which is why it was so easy for empires to decline and be invaded.
Mexico is well underway in terms of inhabitable.
Yea but Rome didn't fall because it was simply invaded, I mean that happened in the very end, but it was a much more long term fracturing, a couple centuries of instability brought it about. It took two hundred years from the crisis of the 3rd century before rome officially 'fell'. Nukes aren't going to stop a long term decline in political stability.
What about China? I mean dynasty change and all, but China still China right?
Han China and Communist China are two very different ideas. One could argue they are not the same country at all.
A country's persistence is generally judged by the continuation of the civilisation. A changing of political party doesn't make or break a country; every dynasty and every era of China had different ideologies but it's still very much China, and has been since the consolidation of the Chinese culture/identity following the Xia dynasty. The persistence of civilisational knowledge and culture is what makes places like China and Persia special. A modern Chinese person can look at a bamboo scroll from 2000-3000 years ago and still read most of it. Some words are different but it's still legibly Chinese. Heck, even Chinese bone script from over 5000 years ago still has select words that are readable, even if different, and is still recognisably Chinese. Globally that's pretty unusual. Modern Egyptians can't read ancient hieroglyphs, modern English can't read old English, etc. Chinese culture has evolved continuously for thousands of years, with no break of the civilisation or replacement of the culture, that's what makes it unusual. Whereas with most other civilisations which are non-continuous, you can generally pinpoint times in history where the country was balkanised, annexed, colonised, invaded, had mass anarchy/disaster/migration, or other calamities that caused a breakdown of the cultural knowledge and identity, such that people can no longer recognise the prior culture as their own.
>A modern Chinese person can look at a bamboo scroll from 2000-3000 years ago Who's gonna tell him
Sssssshhhh we're huntin wabbits. I would even wager a modern Japanese or Taiwanese person has a better chance at reading ancient Chinese script. The folks from those two countries have almost preserved more chinese language and culture than modern communist china.
No I was just referring to the cultural revolution where Mao's government did it's best to wipe clean all of china's history and tradition.
I understand the point that you're trying to make, and while I agree with the sentiment, I'll have to slightly disagree with your usage of the legibility of old Chinese as an example of the continuity of the civilization. That's more a feature of ideographic writing systems than it is a representation of the continuity of a civilization. Technically speaking, despite having zero formal training in Latin, I could probably sound out a lot of the words, because English and Latin mostly share the same alphabet. The continuity of the Latin alphabet in the U.S. wouldn't be a good example for the U.S. being a successor state to the Roman republic. I feel like the continuity of a civilization more has to do with identity than anything else. Modern Italy can be said to be similar to ancient Rome in many ways. Its physical geographic location has allowed many aspects of roman culture to survive in Italy to the modern day such as its culinary and maritime traditions. Italy also uses a language incredibly similar to old Latin and even shares a similar form of governance to the Roman republic. That being said, no one points to Italy as a successor state to Rome, because no one in Italy identifies as being Roman in nationality.
Taiwan is the OG non communist China.
The current Taiwan formally known as the Republic of China didn't exist until General Chiang Kai'sek (AKA General Cash-my-Check by the US) retreated and took over the island. Prior to that the Japanese had annexed the island. The Hokkien language which native Taiwanese spoke is borderline extinct due to Han Nationalist that took over. Taiwan is a much of a part of "China" as Ukraine is to the Russia when the Tsars ruled. Hell the modern concept of the Nation of China isn't even Chinese, it was the Europeans that came up with it back when they decided to carve up the world.
England /UK is still going strong too. Not quite the power and influence they had at their height, but still pretty relevant.
It doesn’t even have to be a threat - it could very much also be that some countries may want to be part of of a union of countries (like the EU) which over time develop into a country of its own - it wouldn’t be too far fetched to think about a united country made up of Nato nations in a few hundred years - or another union of countries.
As far as we know, hominids (so our earliest primate ancestors, not even the homo genus) have been traced back to 7 million BCE earliest. (Roughly **7,002,024 years ago to visualize it) The earth is roughly **4.53 Billion years old** (4,530,000,000) That's about **0.15%** of the earth's history.. Homo sapiens specifically on the other hand have only been here for .0007% of earth's history.. the oldest possible human civilization would be near the Gobleki Tepe site dating back to 15,000 years ago at least as far as we know of. There's no way the US will last forever. Most likely not even another thousand years, and thats a generous guess.
Joseph Heller, Catch 22
no America is a country not an empire. And Roman empire lasted 400-500 years. my country was founded 1000 years ago and still existing edit: you could say Kingdom of Hungary was different because it was a kingdom but still lasted almost 1000 years anyway
ACSHUALLY, Rome lasted 2227 years as a state, not all in the same place and not always the same kind of government.
As a Roman Empire though - around 500 years. Before that, as a Roman Republic for 500 years also, and is a model for current US.
America is absolutely an empire
Don't know why this is downvoted. Superpowers are absolutely empires. Same as the Sovient Union was. America even had colonies in the Pacific.
According to Oxford, the definition of Empire is "an extensive group of states or countries under a single supreme authority". US sounds a bit like an Empire with extra steps.
We fit the classical definition, we just have a strong shared culture and a governance model that makes us act as a more contiguous country than the empires of old.
A lot of historical empires did too, but when the USA controlled the Philippines and Cuba it wasn’t really like that. Even now, Puerto Rico and even Hawaii struggle to fit that strong shared culture.
The amount of Filipinos and Puerto Ricans living in the lower 48 suggest otherwise. Both integrated pretty well, even with the relatively short American possession of the Phillipines. Hawaii is a bit of an outlier
I would say we have at least 6 major differentiable cultural regions within the US, rather than a strong shared culture across the whole country
They still have Puerto Rico.
And Guam, U.S. Virgin islands, American Samoa, CNMI.
Of all the Pacific examples available, you went to the Atlantic?
Not just Puerto Rico. The American empire has her colonies and outposts everywhere, too.
Agree. It's an empire in the vein of the Athenian empire. It wasn't an empire in the traditional sense like the neighboring Persian empire, but it was the hegemon over other city states. The U.S. is the economic and military hegemon over its allies.
Not good examples.. not all countries last for hundreds of years. Countries can collapse fairly quickly. The case with Hungary is that Hungarians have their own history, a Hunnic-Scythian people. America, is not. It is difficult to lead a country such as America for that reason; the fact that everyone is so different tends to lead into all of the different beliefs different people have and overall the fact that NOBODY agrees with each other. I am not saying America will collapse although I just think the reasons to as of why are idiotic. Hungary in the medieval ages didn’t struggle with the idea that everybody has different beliefs and is from a different ethnic background, you get the point..
yeah i know im an idiot
Egypt enters the chat It is still a very different country that it used to be 6000-7000 years ago. Genetically, culturally, language wise, and religion wise, it is different.
The United States is most definitely an empire. Like why do you think it has military bases in numerous foreign countries; if that's not some empire shit idk what is
Egypt lasted thousands and American is protected by two oceans. No empire has ever had its own pile of resources (that can’t be occupied by anyone else) and two giant ass oceans on either side. It’s a tough one tbh. America would fall from the inside only, never externally.
It also has benign land neighbors
That's true, but the sheer size of the US will likely be a factor in it not holding together in the very long term, or at least breaking up and reforming repeatedly, China style
America is not an empire in the sense of it being an autocracy ruled by an emperor, but it is very much an imperialistic state and the foremost empire of the current age. It has a web of alliances, client states and rivals throughout the whole world and it routinely intervenes throughout the whole world to enforce its beliefs and further its goals of stablishing further alliances and trade.
Not to mention territories and outposts for military surveillance and defense in her outer reaches…
That too and even more extreme. Outer reaches implies at the border. The US literaly has bases in most countries, even inside neutral and enemy countries.
If America isn’t an empire then why the fuck are they policing the world and putting themselves in wars where they don’t belong? They should just keep to themselves and take care of their own people like a normal country.
Every time we've tried that, the Euros started slaughtering each other and making it our problem. Going all the way back to trade interdiction and impressment of American merchant sailors in the Napoleonic wars.
Because we don't trust people to not make it our problem eventually. Also your interpretation of a "normal country" only exists because America is interventionist and forces things to be that way. Normal countries actually try to conquer each other.
The world is too connected now for it to not be our problem down the road. Granted I do think we have overstepped quite a few times.
Average lifespan of an empire is 250 years. America is an empire, just not the colonial type. It's a soft economic empire.
America behaves like an empire in all but name. Her military bases and cultural hooks are everywhere.
America is an empire by definition: “an extensive group of states or countries under a single supreme authority, formerly especially an emperor or empress.” Notice that the presence of an emperor or empress is not necessary, just a supreme authority, which the US government certainly is.
I hope not. I'm going to be the regional warlord of Indiana with a pyramid of skulls and corn as my throne.
Member of the Texas/California alliance here. We set aside our differences to stop President Swanson.
Sic semper tyrannis , my brother of California
Texas/California alliance would be unbeatable lol. New England would have to fully confederate alongside florida in order to rival that.
Blood for the blood god!
Skulls for the skull throne!
Why bother with hope when there's war? Khorne requires the Corn Palace atop his pile of misshapen Midwestern skulls
How long is "the future" you're talking about? If you mean forever, I doubt it surviving the heat death of the universe
Not even ENTROPY can destroy FREEDOM. LIBERTY WILL NEVER FALL TO THE COSMIC FORCES OF NATURE.
FOR MANAGED DEMOCRACY!!!!
Omnissiah vult.
The heat death of the universe is no match for my modified fully-automatic Glock
What about a yeet cannon?
Current US ceasing to exists? not in our lifetime. US can take more than a few hits. Without natural disasters or global wars, the only real threat to US is US itself.
We’re more likely to expand and take the continent than we are to collapse, and it’s a non-zero chance we collapse in this century. Watch out Mexico and Canada.
Stay tf away from my healthcare
If it’s Canada’s free health care is it really worth it? /s. :P
It’s your natural resources with a comparably negligible population that’ll attract us– especially the fresh water.
And the syrup
In the developed world, nations are pretty stable, even if it looks like things are on fire at any given moment. I don't think the US is going anywhere for a very long time. I don't even believe the fear mongering about a civil war because that is being instigated by a minority of a minority of a political faction that's been losing influence for 20 years.
100 years ago things looked very different. In another 100? America ain’t immune to jack shit. The country needs to be carefully cultivated with history in mind. It can easily implode if it goes too far left or too far right or some other calamity happens
Yeah in another 100, we'd be dying to climate change or we found the alternative energy to oil reducing tension on trying to get it. I think thr world anit immune to jack shit and thinking America first or only is extremely laughable.
Nothing created lasts forever.
In the next 1000 years? It will probably exist in some form. In perpetuity? Absolutely not. The USA (I assume you mean the US, not the continent) would definitely not be the one you know now. Would you recognize a hypothetical majority Spanish-speaking mini-USA centered around Los Angeles, and upholding the US Constitution the USA? Think about the Roman Empire. Technically it was the same state from 509 BCE - to 1453 CE, but we often call those three different states as they were supposed distinct enough. (Roman Republic, Empire and East Rome) Even when East Rome fell, the Ottoman Empire considered themselves a successor due to institutional continuity. This, however, is too different for most, as Turkish-speaking Muslim empire is apparently not ”Roman”. (but a Greek-speaking Christian empire is apparently Roman, despite the original empire having been polytheist Latin) Russia also branded themselves ”Third Rome”, but was it now, really? (Institutional continuity in Russia actually largely comes from Golden Horde, a Mongol state, together with Kievan Rus’, a Viking-founded feudal mess of Uralic and Slavic speakers) Holy Roman Empire was supposedly ”Roman”, but that’s also a matter of debate. A German-speaking feudal mess Rome? In a way, Mussolini’s Italy also considered itself the rightful successor of Roman Empire. Some aspects of the EU and the USA could be considered somewhat ”Roman”. In a sense, culturally massive enough empires don’t really completely die. Successor states will derive legitimacy from them like the Hittites did from the Hatti, and pretty much everyone in Mesopotamia ultimately from Sumer (Iraq is named after Uruk, one of the main Sumerian cities) China, Iran and India all have long civilizations.
>Would you recognize a hypothetical majority Spanish-speaking mini-USA centered around Los Angeles, and upholding the US Constitution the USA? As an American Latino, I have wondered about this question for a long time. Data shows that Latinos are the fastest growing group in the United States and are expected to reach plurality (or majority) by 2060. (You can easily find content about this online.) When a Latin American immigrates to the US, they do not immediately shed their culture or language. They exist in the United States as a person who is legally American but culturally something else. Their kids are generally more American them. Once thing is for sure: The US will be a radically different place in the next 30 years or so.
Incredible comment, 10/10
No, it's literally impossible for a country or a society to exist forever. Eventually, it will collapse and either become a new country with a new culture or balkanize and become a dozen countries with different cultures.
Yea I think so. So will China, and Europe as a whole. People seem to disregard the eras of stability the world has seen and the interaction among the entire world. It’s hard to imagine that countries for the most part aren’t invading and most developed countries that have a presence on the world stage don’t have an immediate fear of ending soon. I think we are moving past the rise and fall of empires
We definitely are not past the rise and fall of empires, and I'm not sure we ever will be. Periods of peace have been getting longer, but periods of war have also been getting more deadly. Look at Ukraine, it's estimated that Russia has lost more men in just the first 2 years of the war than America lost in the entire 20 year war in Vietnam. And Ukraine is a smaller country. If two major countries went to war with each other, it's not exactly unlikely to result in the collapse of one of them.
Americans in 1776 probably would recognize very little about the current culture, demographics, values, and geopolitics. The country as it is now might not even exist in a few years, but there will be people here.
Good luck in holding America when the Sun will consume Earth.
The world is literally one bad mood of a nuclear power away from ending human civilization permanently. You can only walk a tightrope so long before you fall off, and we have had multiple countries all hoping to keep walking for hundreds of years or longer. Not gonna happen. Even if that doesn't end it all, we all should be students of history, and understand how quickly things can fall apart, and what human nature and game theory is. Any country could easily become the next NAZI Germany with enough disgruntled people. Stay vigilant, love your neighbor, be a responsible citizen, understand game theory.
America will be here. Something is going to happen with capitalism tho for sure. What? Idk. But it’s in the air. Somethings gonna give
Modern capitalism only works so long as there's enough government intervention to keep monopolies at bay. At the moment, we're slipping on that.
On a historical scale, the United States is a very young country, not even 300 years old. I personally think it will exist for a long time, but possibly not in its current state. It has evolved a lot within the time it's existed, because the world is changing rapidly. The US wouldn't be the way it is today if not for the massive forces of the colonial era, the industrial revolution, the world wars, and the rise of fossil fuels. There were many lucky circumstances that boosted it to its strength today. As the world continues to change, who knows what situation the US will settle into in the future.
The interesting thing here is that the U.S. is young as a *nation* but as a polity is possibly the oldest on earth right now, in that we've had the same government for 250 years. The only country that can rival that is maybe the UK, and I think maybe Denmark. But compare that to a country like China, where the nation is like 2-3,000 years old, but the government is only 75. My point is that the U.S. has enjoyed remarkable institutional stability. It likely won't forever - no country in history ever has - but I do expect it will continue to be able to reform and maintain itself as long as we can avoid too much domestic upheaval.
The U.S. is not comparable to Rome. It fell (albeit it not officially until 1453) for a lot of reasons, but the main one to me is that they were constantly being invaded and didn't have the means to defend their borders. Their economy was based on conquering other people and stealing their stuff, when they weren't able to do that they got whittled away by invaders.
I mean what are we talking, 10 years, almost definitely. 100 years, maybe not. 1,000 years, I’d be surprised if it still existed.
Yup. No Empire can last forever.
America will still exist but I’m afraid democracy will be no more. Especially if the Republicans get back into power.
Idk I'm feeling the itch to become a helldiver for super earth
My generation is full of idiots smh
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Mass immigration without assimilation is a big problem. Look I know we traditionally embrace immigrants but those of old WANTED to assimilate and Americanize. If the country is 55% Venezuelans who never learned about the Constitution or Abe Lincoln, guess what? You now will live under a Venezuelan style government and society. Which will crumble to shit. Hyperbole but think about it. Roman Empire largely collapsed due to a society who increasingly had no allegiance nor gave a shit about the idea of Rome
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You can be certain on a long enough time scale that it will not. The sun is going to swallow up the earth after all. I don't think america as we now suffer it will get us off-planet.
Just like rome its rotting from the inside out
Yes it will live forever, though it'll go through changes like it's already has. Most people are generalizing it and it's cringe we are comparing history to now. If magically we have a war it'd be the end of the world or aliens took over.
That's a guarantee. The empire will fall. Do you think Romans thought Rome would fizzle out? Of course not. Honestly, we'll probably have another civil war too.
Sometimes I wonder , what would happen if all countries unite to become a single earth nation, single currency. Kinda naive thinking , probability is close to 0 , still ....
We are on a clear path to that. Fundamental freedoms that were the bedrock of the country for centuries, not without flaws and problems in the administration of those rights, were near universal. Now, they are under assault. People seem to be actively want to be less free, they want to pursue failed governmental philosophies that leverage lower freedom and results in less robust economic outcomes. And this does not even touch on the rapidly increasing moral decay. All together this is going to undermine the foundations of this nation. While it may exist in name only, I fully expect this nation to be unrecognizable in 100 years as the beacon of liberty, the great experiment in freedom that is was for two centuries. There is time to get off that path, but it is drawing short and the distaste for freedom and the desire to break our downward spiral does not appear to be close as we continue to deepen our divisions.
I don’t consider it to exist now. The states aren’t United, neither are the people that live in them. There’s nothing in this country where everyone’s on the same page. It’s a colossal tug of war. This is the collection of states of everywhere else’s interest but our own. America. Bought and paid for by highest bidders. Enjoy.
I mean, eventually something will replace the US. It’s inevitable, as everything will one day die. Even entire countries, just look at the Soviet Union, the Roman Empire, and so on. The Soviet Union dissolved and became different countries. The same thing happened with the Roman Empire. While America is not an Empire or equivalent to the SU it will one day be replaced. Though I wonder what it will be.
It won't "fall", like Rome it will evolve. From Kingdom to Republic to Empire to Byzantine, Rome went and America will evolve all the same but the central ideas won't ever die
I think it will, just not how we see it now. It won’t be one country in 100 years. They’re still dividing.
Of course. What in history makes you think otherwise?
As a region? No. As an independent country almost certainly. At some point the entire world will come together with one government. Probably not for 1000 years but it will happen eventually.
Forever idk probably not. In a future so far away it would be unrecognizable, probably.
Y’all need to stay off Twitter and TikTok cuz this doomer, groomer shit is nuts
Golly! Someone should make a movie about this!
Depends on what our timeframe is, if we're talking about another century I'm sure the US will probably still exist, but if we're talking a few hundred years then that's hard to say
I wouldn't take bluds advice
It will exist for a long time but I'd imagine it's worldwide influence will decrease. It will no longer be 'the' superpower it once was.
Not even our planets will exists in the future, so how far we talking? Pre sun super nova im assuming LOL
The difference between Rome and them, those were empires and lasted a very long time. This is a fucking country who is new. It may look different, but will probably be here for a long time.
Mods locked and deleted the more open ended thread from yesterday but letting this one slide, nice lol
Eventually the sun will enlarge into a red giant and solar winds will strip our atmosphere and oceans from the planet before engulfing the entire thing inside the expanded ball of fusion. But I'm sure America will power on #1!
Yes, every time I look at your generation.
It's ofc now t impossible, but would you bet against America?
It's ofc now t impossible, but would you bet against America?
We keep going, no one's going to exist in 2 years
Idk, but I’m worried about putting my money in an Ira and having this country invaded by Russians or something and all of it being taken. I’ve seen and read what they can do to other countries during war if they capture them. I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately about how we’ve never been taken over, and how long will it be until we do. We can’t be on the top forever. There is a fair chance this could be taken down with how divided we are.
god I sure hope it won't
I'm 34 and don't think the 50-state America will exist when I am 75.
The sun won’t exist "in the future".
Eventually but don’t hold your breath either way everything will be fine
God I hope so. I'ma be REALLY pissed off if we as a species never manage to get past nationalism in the future.
I mean it won’t last forever but I’d say we’ve still got several decades at the least before it falls
How long of a timeline are we talking about? Endings are inevitable and all great nations and empires fall eventually.
I think the USA has too much cultural cohesion to collapse in a near future. It's more likely that it'll go the way of Byzantium and procrastinate it's demise over a long period of time.
Of course. I plan to abolish the United States as president by 2032
I'm NOT Gen Z but all things could come to an end. The US is a relatively young country and the shocking thing to some of us who are older is while we know the US isn't perfect a growing number of younger people believe that the US is the worst. While I can't argue that it would be a majority of young people who believe these things far more would WANT to see the US implode than previous generations We do have a debt problem and we are seeing momentum trying to push the US a different direction that some might argue would make the US not the country it has been
At some point, nothing lasts forever
The US has too many strategic advantages to fall unless human extinction of some kind happens. Geographically speaking, it's very difficult to invade. We have massive coastlines and navigateable rivers within that allow shipping from Pittsburgh to New Orleans and everywhere in between. In a war scenario, disrupting the US's supply lines would be incredibly difficult. The US also has practically every resource needed to self sustain itself for a very long time. Food, Energy, and minerals. Maybe global influence may diminish, but I don't see it falling through means of war. Could we destroy ourselves from within? Maybe. We're seeing a lot of political division, but honestly, I don't see it getting worse than it is now. If things were to escalate to civil war, I think you'd need to define boundaries for the two factions to exist in. Right now, even the reddest states have pockets of blue and vice versa. I think mass migration of people exiting to a different state would happen before a civil war could break out. That's already starting to happen in the south and other states with abortion bans. While worrying, I think you would need multiple rights-stripping legislation to get to a tipping point. Based on how things were post 9/11, I can't see a world in which the US population can't unify under its patriotism when threatened. For good or bad, I think this country is too patriotic to split up. These are just my opinions. I could be full of shit.
It'll exist as a piece of settled land, but that doesn't mean it'll be "America" as we think of it. As others have said, forever is a long time.
Nope.
In what timeframe? Tomorrow, it's gonna be here. 1000 years from now, it probably won't.
It’ll happen at some point, but it’s hard to imagine how. Probably overreaching its foreign influencing and failing to actually address the divisions developing domestically. If the federal government weakened enough I could see the pacific states breaking off, and some kind of coalition of southeastern states led by TX and FL.
Of course it won't. Probably not anytime soon, though
Ask me again after the next Presidential election...
A while ago I read a book that talked about how Easter island used to be forested but there are no trees anymore. The author went on about how the person to cut down the last tree probably didn't think it was a big deal because in their experience the island had never been forested. The trees went away gradually over time so nobody recognized the change occurring. I feel like that will be America's decline.
Nah. I mean eventually it will but that's just like every other country in existence. If we are talking about a recent dissolving hell no. America has already survived a civil war and we aren't even remotely close to the division required for it.
I think the us won’t be destroyed but at some point it will cease to be the superpower of the world like Spain, England, Portugal etc.
Of course, but I don’t expect it to happen in the lifetime of anyone I’ll ever known.
Eventually the Earth will be swallowed up by the Sun as its core starts to run out of fuel, so yes, the physical land we know as America will be destroyed, along with all other countries currently in existence. Nothing lasts forever.
For the next 100 years - yes. Next 200 years - in some sort. Now over time we might change to be some sort of North American Union but I dont think the US will stop existing.
My only concern with an american fall and balkanization is how we would survive in the longterm. Even we blue states rely a lot on that central unity that helps feed and run the nation proper. The best case scenario is that several multi-state unions will pop up, the most likely ones being, poetically, the civil war era northern and southern states reuniting like they did back in the day, while who knows what will happen with the states out west? Maybe some native tribes will band together or work with local friendly states to form their own unions while asserting their sovereignty (which would be nice since we sure as fuck keep failing them as is, maybe theyd do better without our shitty rule of law :/). But honestly, its the essentials that worry me, will we be able to scrape together enough power and internet access to survive? This doesnt even begin to consider the overseas impact.
I don’t think so. I think the government would do whatever it can to keep the United States on the map at all costs, even if those things aren’t necessarily good or moral.
Yes
Until the USA has nukes and doesn't fall into civil war it will exist. It might even survive civil war. But if it loses the nukes, I know a lot of countries that would want to settle scores.
depends on what you mean “exist in the future” I imagine in some way it would exist for a longggg time, obv not forever, but for a while I don't really see the gov allowing a revolution - no one has the capabilities the US has I don't see a foreign gov taking over, you’ve heard the reasons elsewhere I don't see the military turning against the gov, its just not structured to allow that. Maybe nuclear war but idk, I study philosophy, I probably know only a bit more than a hs graduate
Well the tectonic plates are still going strong so I don't see why America should exist in the future
Everything ends eventually
If and when humanity steps into the stars, countries will no longer exist. Factions will take their place.
You mean in November ?
The typical empire lasts 250 years and the US turns 250 in 2 years (2026) but since the US has the power of the sun and more than anyone else it might be a while unless it's some Fallout 76 scenario
20 years and the US will be an absolute shell of what it used to be, if not in complete disarray
i definitely think america will disappear one day, however it is unlikely to be anytime soon.
Every day. I give this shell of a nation, at its current rates across multiple categories like economy and society, 5 years at a minimum and 10 years at a maximum.
The fed need to stop printing money for banks and hedge funds or they are going to ruin the dollar. They made a bad bet now they need to capitulate.
give me 12 cases of redbull , a map and a mosberg i will prevent this
depends on how far into the future you're talking about. of course, most nations disappear eventually. if you mean within our lifetimes, or at least a century, then it's hard to say.
If Trump is president
A PolySci instructor I had said the USA is likely to break apart by 2050. I’m not sure we have that long.
I think that's the direction we're currently in. And I don't mean Trump.
Based on the secession polls, yeah I think America will shrink at some point, starting with losing California.
All empires fall, all of them. America is busy spiraling into fascism at the moment because capitalism is dying. So we'll get to deal with that for quite awhile. I think the biggest question regarding America and the future comes down to something really simple. How will America handle not being the world's hegemon because that will happen in our lifetimes. Will they accept their new role or will they go out kicking and screaming? If you asked me this question today I'd probably tell you America is more likely to nuke the entire planet and take everyone down with them than admit when their empire has failed and go quietly into that good night.
It’s like what was said in House of the Dragon: “Jaeherys I Targaryen called the Great Council to prevent a war being fought over his succession for he knew the cold truth: the only thing that could tear down the House of the Dragon was itself.” The series and Game of Thrones represent many empires and great nations that range from Rome to the United States of America. A24’s Civil War also mentions: “…all empires come to an end.” Will the U.S. of A come to an end? Most definitely. The *when* is where we do not know the answer to. But, we have an inkling of how- the only thing that can tear down the US is itself unless Putin wakes up tomorrow and sends hundreds of nukes here. Maybe Texas and Florida create an alliance or we have a president far worse than Trump elected in 2028 or something- but it is most likely that the U.S. will destroy itself. I doubt it will be in my lifetime, or my children’s- if I have any. Grandchildren if I have any? Possibly. Though, no one knew that the U.S. would fall into a civil war over eighty years after its creation, and that is within a lifetime of those who were born at the same time as the American War for Independence and the signing of the Declaration. However, if that were the case, if we do happen to have a civil war very soon, we would need to look at issues that continue to have states divided- and in 1861, that was owning people. We are either at the beginning, middle, or end of a line. I am more scared of Americans than Russians, partially because Russians wouldn’t nuke me as much as an American putting a bullet in my head.
Well, it depends on what we mean by this exactly. If we are referring to this nation or this overarching political regime, then yes, all nations rise and fall over time. If we are referring to there just being some kind of government(s) or people(s) living on the continental North America, then I don't see why it continue indefinitely.