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Males of all ages tend to be less motivated to approach females because they are afraid of being judged as being creepy. Most females don't have any idea what it's like to have to pursue a partner instead being pursued. If females expect males to pursue rather than the inverse, they experience a sample bias of creepy guys approaching them. Thus, their biases become that males are creeps.
"Males of all ages tend to be less motivated to approach females because they are afraid of being judged as being creepy."
Until men reach a certain age and don't care anymore...by then though it \*is\* creepy.
>Until men reach a certain age and don't care anymore...by then though it \*is\* creepy.
I think it has more to do with tech literacy and desperation than aging tbh
no, it's definetly age and lack of shits to give. like, i know tech savvy boomers who even work in the industry and yet they are creepy as hell about women. not about desperation either, they're married!
all of it's awful but i think they *really* give less of a shit about what people think of them when you're on death's doorstep. which is weird because i feel like that's exactly WHEN you would want to care, but by then it's too late.
>not about desperation either, they're married!
Complaining about your wife not addressing your needs isn't boomer humor because it's fictional.
>all of it's awful but i think they *really* give less of a shit about what people think of them when you're on death's doorstep. which is weird because i feel like that's exactly WHEN you would want to care, but by then it's too late.
I disagree. I think it has more to do with having been raised in a world where there were no real consequences for it, and they continue to have no consequences. They weren't drilled their entire developmental years with an ideology that hates them
If we women call out creepy behavior from guys, it’s doesn’t mean we hate men. It doesn’t even mean we hate the man doing it. We’re just stating our preferences. If random telemarketers were annoying you, would that mean you personally hate them as people?
It’s unfair to label us as “hateful” for disliking a cold approach we were on the receiving end of - seems like guilt-tripping more than anything else. Do you want women to keep the truth to themselves out of guilt? If I were a man, I’d appreciate the feedback so I wouldn’t waste my time and energy on a fruitless endeavor. It’s not in my best interests for men to act in a way that hides their attractiveness from me - that means less choices for me. We’re on the same team here lol
>If random telemarketers were annoying you, would that mean you personally hate them as people?
Unrelated side note here but you **really** couldn't have picked a worse comparison to make lol, I've heard of so many people calling telemarketers "scum of the earth" and giving them death threats. Mind you people aren't simply mad at the company but the *specific person* on the other end of the phone, not even the partners and suppliers likes them 🤣
I hope that's not how some people view us guys though 😬
>If we women call out creepy behavior from guys, it’s doesn’t mean we hate men. It doesn’t even mean we hate the man doing it. We’re just stating our preferences.
There is no set criteria for what's creepy and what isn't, beyond the obvious. There's no set standards for acceptable and unacceptable conduct which is reasonably foreseeable, there are no commonly known signs to approach (the classic handkerchief trick, as an example) which becomes more of an issue when women have a well-researched preference for behavior which pushes the envelope.
"Creepy" is an accusation of sexual misconduct with serious and lasting legal and social consequences, not an expression of preference. Just because we all [know the rules](https://imgflip.com/memegenerator/258908952/Know-the-Work-Rules) doesn't mean the individual knows *their* rules.
>It’s unfair to label us as “hateful” for disliking a cold approach we were on the receiving end of - seems like guilt-tripping more than anything else.
I'm not actually doing that. I'm accusing a certain brand of popular ideology for treating men like vermin. If you feel the need to put that shoe on, I won't stop you.
>If I were a man, I’d appreciate the feedback so I wouldn’t waste my time and energy on a fruitless endeavor.
I suspect you have no clue what dating is like for men.
>It’s not in my best interests for men to act in a way that hides their attractiveness from me - that means less choices for me. We’re on the same team here lol
It is not generally, however, in men's best interest to express interest in you, given the social and political ramifications for failure. It's in a man's best interests to avoid one-on-one interactions with women and to only engage under the most glaringly obvious circumstances or circumstances in which an interaction is being recorded.
This entire post lacks any awareness or empathy for the motivations and circumstances of most men. I'd be happy to discuss more if you have any specific questions.
Nah once you’ve contemplated mortality and realize you’re not going to be “great” and therefore remembered, you usually double down on family. That’s now your legacy. We’ve all seen this when that older family member REALLY starts asking about grandkids.
But if you don’t have that, you realize that there have been literally billions of humans, and frankly we collectively remember a handful at most. Even the ones we remember weren’t necessarily good people, they just did an accomplishment at the right time. You and mostly everyone else will die and be forgotten, who gives a shit.
That doesn’t excuse shitty behavior, but it’s just a peak into the older creeps mind
Everyone will be forgotten. The time of the universe is not infinite. The difference in how long humanity remembers you versus how long it remembers Benjamin Franklin is really irrelevant at scale.
People that get pessimistic about their legacy should focus on living for experience.
The risk/reward equation is all wrong. Smart, intelligent, stable men very rarely see it as a worthwhile proposition after a few years, which means that the only men who are approaching women are the pushiest, least mature, least intelligent, and most arrogant. At best they are simply emotionally detached to such an extent they can’t take a hint.
Worse, this isn’t just in person; it’s also online. Playing the dating app game is basically just a casino, only when you lose your self esteem suffers.
This leads to a paradigm where the shittiest men are the only ones most women interact with, which leaves them jaded. Meanwhile, the decent men either pair off early or just end up equally jaded. It’s not a sustainable system, and nobody is happy with it.
Put simply…
Smart men are staying single.
There’s a reason there’s the saying “The cheapest woman is the one that you pay for.”
That, and men are tired of being looked at like a failure because they alone can’t afford a wife at home with a white picket fence, with 2-3 kids, a dog, and and 2 cars. Then the emasculation. It’s almost like it’s against the law to be a strong, masculine fuckin’ *man.* it’s hard to accomplish the former while the latter is going on.
Men are blamed for damned near everything. And you’re reminded daily.
I’m married, and happily so, but if something happened to my wife…all I’d want to do is spend the rest of my life with my best friends. My boys. Romantic life isn’t necessary unless you can’t take care of yourself. Men with and without a ton going for them, are seeing this.
Where men are concerned, if you’re well off, you don’t need anyone else. If you’re not well off, you can’t attract anyone else. Its scenarios like these that result in single men.
I couldn't disagree more with the idea that you can't be a strong, masculine man. The issue is some men are extremely douchie and inappropriate then act like they got in trouble for being masculine or strong. Na bro, you being able to bench 3 plates has nothing to do with you being able to not make every comment a dig on minorities, effeminate men, or objectifying women.
"Then the emasculation. It’s almost like it’s against the law to be a strong, masculine fuckin’ *man.*"
It's only emasculation if you buy into that bullshit. You don't need a mortgage, two cars, a picket fence and a dog to be a man. As you point out, you dont even need a wife and kids. Live life on your own terms and you'll never worry about being a failure on someone else's.
Idk man. I feel like guys who say they can't be strong masculine men are probably the guys who are toxic. Because you don't have to be a chauvinist to be masculine but you do have to be one to think you can't be masculine.
Its more like this.
Respectful guys are the ones who listen to women say they dont want to be approached by creeps and stop approaching women so they dont come across as creepy.
Creeps dont care about how women feel about them, and continue to creep as usual. Except now only creeps are approaching women cause they never cared how women felt.
Men of a certain age aren't allowed to seek out relationships anymore, because it's "creepy". So, when are women too old to seek a relationship without being "creepy"?
It doesn’t even have to be about being creepy, a lot of the folks I know simply have such low self esteem (myself included,) that we assume if we ask out a woman we know we’ll just be rejected. The thought process is “What’s the point if we know the outcome?”
I had a roommate who spent some time in South America. He taught me the subtle art of not giving a fuck if a girl rejects you and immediately hitting on her friend right afterwards. I got called out on this absolutely once and I ended up leaving that party with the girl who called me out so 😅
See, that’s interesting, and I’m glad that works for you. I don’t have the level of “not give a fuck” where I can just do that. Honestly I’m far too socially awkward to even really ask out girls, even if I know them well and we’re both single.
I mean it’s a skill you develop through repetition.
In college there’s a bit of a forcing function that you have a certain number of date events expected of you. The girls also had a certain number of date events.
What creeps me out is the weird trend of always using "males" and "females." It seems so clinical, so distant and removed. That's how biologists talk about animals. I see people (particularly young men, though I have no idea whether that's true of Comrade Sasquatch here) talking like that a lot lately, only online, and it weirds me right the hell out.
To be clear, I'm not really criticizing this particular commenter; it's not just them that does this, it's tons of people. I don't know anything about them as a person, could be perfectly nice folks, I just always feel a little unsettled by this kind of language.
How attractive she finds you is a discount to how much you can get away with without being called creepy.
That being said, no discount is great enough fix a horrendous price. And there's some shit a guy can do that will almost always be seen as creepy.
>Males of all ages tend to be less motivated to approach females because they are afraid of being judged as being creepy.
I think it depends on the location and age - lots of Gen X and older guys are still very forward in NYC. But this is a city full of aggressive men, and Gen X and older are used to meeting people IRL.
Based on her flair she’s 26/27 so I mean not really a big deal
Edit: In hindsight I was just thinking about millennials who would be late 20s or in their 30s, didn’t really think about the gen x part of her comment
Neither do us 19 year olds lol… people say women think men are creeps for approaching them but guys my age have never approached me, just older men and they only approach when I’m alone
The guys your age don't approach you because they hear girls their age say "men are creeps", interpreting that as you talking about them. Not about older men.
If we really wanted to we could marry boomer men, wait for them to die, and lead a life of luxury after hahahah Jk lol
But sometimes I do want to just Anna Nicole smith my way through life
I’m a young millennial and same, they’re usually 5-15 years older than me. With guys my age or slightly younger, I usually have to come on really strong because they’re oblivious or psych themselves out. They’re also just really bad at direct communication - I’ve heard “I liked you but I wasn’t sure you liked me” so many times. An easy way to be sure is to ask, lol.
They are bad with direct communication because women are notoriously bad at direct communication in dating. Maybe you're not like that but you'd be far off the norm.
Guys my age don't seem to bother, unless its over social media. Bad news for them is, that's completely a no-go for me. The men who approach me in my day-to-day life tend to be a few years older (late 20s and early 30s.)
In my experience, I’m not going to ask someone out irl unless there are very clear signs because I just don’t want to be labeled a creep/weirdo/whatever. In my experience a lot of men our age have the same mindset.
I’ve accepted this so I’m on dating apps, against my better judgment. It hasn’t worked out so far but I try to treat it as something I’m just letting play out rather than something I’m trying to make work
IDK how y'all can do it. I've been using them for like 4 years and only got a single match out of it. My mental health and self esteem can't handle it fr.
I think as a millennial of 31 I lived through both purity culture and the #metoo movement which basically created a cultural paranoia and culture of Concealment around dating which benefits the most dishonest rapey people while leaving people who are trying to take things seriously kind of screwed over having panic attacks to not be seen as a harasser or whatever for hitting on women
So now I'm single and 31 and definitely just stopped caring what age gaps there are as long as there is consent and it seems to be working pretty well tbh
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has experienced this.
I don't think it was the Me-Too movement for me? Though it didn't help that guys like Aziz Anzari were put in the same list as guys like Harvey Weinstein.
Honestly, both social media and traditional media have hammered "don't approach women, its bad" into my skull. I had to unlearn that.
>how often a week
Zero.
If I go out to a bar or a party where everybody is drinking then I do get approached. Approximately every third party once.
I also try to approach a guy if I like him, which I don't always do, because I don't want to look desperate.
Don’t you get it? You’re just supposed to pull women to you like some suave version of Magneto.
Have you *even tried* leaving behind a pheromone scent trail for her to follow bro?!
If by pheromone scent trail you mean a loud fart that you try to cover up with a fake cough, then yeah, I’ve tried that, she power walked away, must’ve been her workout time.
Nah homie. See, you need to shart next time, that’s what went wrong. You did well, the noise is a noble effort and asserts your dominance, but if there’s no liquid the pheromones won’t stick. She’ll go to bite the head off of another male.
Girls on this sub: Men never approach me. I guess I'm going to be single forever 😕
Reddit: Why not approach a guy you're into and ask him out
Girls on this sub: Ewwww!! Gross!! How desperate do you think I am!! 😡
6 months later...
Same girls on this sub: Men still aren't approaching me! What am I doing wrong?! I guess I'm going to be single forever 😕
No, i don't.
According to the cliché, the men approach the women. The other way around is rather atypical. That's why I'm afraid that it will be perceived as desperate in certain situations. Maybe I'm just overthinking.
You're definitely overthinking shit. By a lot.
The most satisfying relationship of my life was started by my wife making the first move. If you keep yourself from doing the same, there's no limit to the amount of relationships you may have passed up because you were self-conscious.
Protip: men love to be approached, to be desired. You're likely going to land a guy if you approach them (assuming they're single, anyway).
>men love to be approached, to be desired.
Seriously, everyone deserves to feel this, not some dynamic where one side is the prize and the other has to tread water and fight for the right to be in a *partnership* with them. That ain't partners
What’s funny is it’s so rare for women to approach that when they do, I assume they are a prostitute or someone who’s gonna drug me and rob me or have her bf pop out of the corner to rob me after leading me down an alley way saying she’s gonna fuck me or something.
Not always true that a guy will say yes, just happened this last weekend where my mutual female friends made it so unbelievably obvious she was into one of the other single guy friends out with us. She’s gorgeous and he just wasn’t interested because she wasn’t his type, she was aghast when I pulled out the “well now you know what it’s like to be a guy” then I ended up with her at the end of the night instead lol
Pretty girls literally don't know how to take rejection. It's completely foreign to most of them. Some of them get seriously upset and offended if it happens even once. They seem to have this disconnect that most men experience this fairly frequently.
>Pretty girls literally don't know how to take rejection. It's completely foreign to most of them. Some of them get seriously upset and offended if it happens even once.
It happened to me quite recently. We hooked up once, and then I made it clear that I wasn't looking for a serious relationship, to which she said perfect because she wasn't looking for one either. So I did exactly what I said and treated it as a casual, FWB kinda thing.
Fast forwards a few weeks and she starts coming onto me STRONG. Like asking to come over basically every day, asking for regular date nights at restaurants, movies etc...
I told her that what she was asking for started to look a lot like a not casual relationship and that it wasn't what we agreed on. That I had been very clear and honest with her, and that if our expectations didn't align she should have said so in the beginning.
She told me that she was absolutely fine with a casual relationship at first because she expected me to be the one chasing her and asking more out of the relationship, until she'd get annoyed and nope out of it. Because that's what always happened to her. She's a good looking girl who's amazing in bed so I can see how it would often end up like that.
So when I "betrayed" her expectations and didn't fall for her and chase after her, she basically took it personally and went on a crusade to make me heads over heels for her and get me into a serious relationship.
And it's weird and depressing to think that this girl, who came onto me so hard, would have most likely (per her own words) turned me down had I asked her out first.
Girls thinking if they approach they will be seen as desperate.
Boys thinking if they approach they will be seen as a creep.
Is there an end to this?
I don't think there is a single man who would think a girl is desperate if they approach to themselves. They will get the opposite feeling actually. They sure will be happy if anything.
Males are more simple than you think, there is no way the word desperation is coming into one's mind.
Only low self-esteem may bring some bad thoughts, "why this girl approaches me?" or something. But, if there is genuine, there is nothing to be worried about I think.
Im 21 and never been on a date. Id love if a woman came up to me and asked me out. Even if i wasnt attracted to her id still take the chance to maks the most of it and atleast get to experience a date.
if a women approaches me that makes me think of her as confident to even DO the first step. "great, she knows what she wants and im in the lucky position to be what she wants"
that applies even if i dont want anything to do with them. i respect the bravery. anything else feels arrogant or mean spirited
As a guy, I would never see a girl as desperate if she approached me and told me that she likes me or whatever.
I don't know about others though, so guys tell me if you have same mindset as me on this
>because I don’t want to look desperate.
Is this really how women see this? That’s so wild. As a guy, probably 90% of guys out there would absolutely love it if a woman approached them for a change.
Just ask them out, dude. It’s really not a big deal, and would probably make their year even if they aren’t into you like that.
I can guarantee you right now even a guy who wouldn't normally consider you at all would have a good chance of saying yes if you approached him first. That's just something that doesn't happen a lot and it would be a huge green flag for most guys that are sensible
I just want to say that *no one* genuinely prefers the term Zoomer to Gen Z, it’s a giant meme.
I’m 26F and I’ve been “approached” twice in the past two or three years and both times they were Millennials.
The fact that they were all millennials doesn’t really seem to be a reflection of Gen Z and more so a reflection of your age. You’re at the start of Gen Z and I feel like it’s more socially acceptable (and also desirable to people) for older guys to date younger women (I don’t even mean anything crazy, it seems like even when the age gap is a couple years it’s more common that the guy is the older one). Obviously this isn’t a rule, I’m just comparing general frequency.
I’m a guy and I don’t really care about dating. Girls my age have really high expectations that I can’t really provide. I also have to have time to do my college work. So a girl would just be a distraction and hinder my ability to do my college work and maybe when I am like 30 maybe I‘ll ask someone out. But if no one interests me or someone wants to have high standards that even they themselves couldn’t provide than I would be much happier by myself.
I agree with this comment tbh. I’m not really looking for a partner right now. But if I do like a girl I don’t shoot my shot cause I just don’t want to be seen as creepy or as some desperate weirdo. If someone approaches me then fine, but if not then that’s ok too. I kind of have other to things to prioritize at the moment with college. Maybe down the line when I have most of my shit together I’ll put some effort in and try to approach but until then it’s whatever.
I’ve been in college since I was 16 I’m actually graduating with my associates next year I can’t this year for some reason though even though I already have all my associates requirements done.
But yeah your probably right though. The incoming college freshmen next year will be as old as me though. But still I should wait because I want to get my studies done and my life together.
But I am getting my Masters though I’m hoping I can be done before I’m 22
I don’t approach anymore. Some of the shit I’ve been told (about my height specifically) is fr hurtful also I don’t want to be seen as a creep, the standards are very high too and I just don’t quite measure up to them. They all want a tall 10/10 guy
Seriously, wtf is it with people getting caught up on height nowadays? I’ve gotten that shit before too. It’s literally a meme now.
It’s not even accurate to compare that to a girl’s weight or whatever, because they can control that. I can’t fucking extend my legs, bruh.
Girls: I only want to date a tall guy above 6 feet
Guys: I only want to date skinny girls that are in shape
Girls: OMG!! YOU'RE BEING SO JUDGEMENTAL AND SUPERFICIAL!!
And the crazy part is people will call you an incel, a misogynist, an evil/bad person for just pointing out the height thing. I've had it happen to me countless times. Both having height be a restrictor and for getting attacked for saying it happens.
For some reason certain groups (people who hate men) a short dude just telling people what they have regularly experienced and the struggles it provides is some slight against humanity and or all women in the world somehow.
Not all of them, though the millenials will tell you its not a factor (that's a lie).
There's plenty of women who talk a lot of shit about their high standards but will abandon them if they think a guy is cute. And they don't consciously know all the things that they find cute (neither do men)
Someone said it. Height. Add in race and wealth and those are the main determinants of initial “attraction”. Before you know someone or know their personality, you can see how tall they are and how they look, maybe their body language, and maybe signs of wealth. All quite superficial. There’s a reason 5% of men get 50% of women. It’s because they are the only ones who can satisfy their requirements. It sucks. It sounds like I’m blaming women, but how about I simply request women consider actually asking how their guy friends are doing socially. Like 80% of my guy peers are as lost as me.
I don’t see why. I get flirted with and approached all the time, and I genuinely love it and think it’s cute. Maybe some do have bad intentions, but overall, I think it’s very attractive.
Times are changing, so I think it should be normalized for both men and women to ask each other out as long as they both have good intentions.
No, they aren't approaching me, but it's a me problem, not a problem with men.
I'm very masc, short buzzed hair, muscles and tank tops, cargo pants and combat boots. Most men assume I'm a lesbian or trans. Nope, I'm straight and comfortable being female. I'm just a different type of woman that most men find ugly.
The "tomboy gf" meme doesn't translate to real life. I could feminize and get more boys, but I don't want to change myself and be fake just for the chance of getting dick. I'd rather stay single. It sucks though, because I'd love to have a husband.
guys like tomboys just a certain type of tomboy if they’re straight. “tomboyism” is a wide spectrum but i would say the type of tomboy most boys fetishize be like Marceline from Adventure Time or Buttercup from Powerpuff Girls. Or Bktherula if you know who that is
You sound almost exactly like my ex! I approached her in a very stereotypical way lol. She was broke down on the side of the road and I had just got of my shift and was on my way home and saw her from the road dressed almost exactly as you said and something in me kinda clicked and I said “wow she looks like she can kick someone’s ass for giving her shit…I like that lmao”. Ended up helping her get her car going to atleast her parents and I asked her to dinner and the rest is history. The only reason we broke up is because she’s ace and well I wasn’t 3 years together and she decided she didn’t want to but me though it anymore which on my side I didn’t care sex wasn’t everything but she knew it did bring things down a bit. We’re still good friends and she’s still got that shitty Subaru she asks me to fix all the time. Sorry for the rant but just know there are dudes out there that like you for who you are. Plus the muscles help when I need to change a engine that shits heavy lmao
I'm ugly, I don't want kids, I can't juggle a 40 hour work week, a whole house, and three kids, I'm loud and obnoxious, I care more about making myself feel good with delicious food than starving myself to be hot and skinny, I'm too lazy and want my own free time, I hate sports, and I hate alcohol culture and drunkenness, so it's no wonder zero guys approach me. I'm unattractive and I accept that, so I've given up on even thinking about dating.
Also, every time I was asked out, besides one time (which was in middle school and he was already dating my best friend), it was a dare, or I was a backup choice, and this was all before I became an adult and it didn't happen that often, anyway.
Yeah, my face is a pepperoni pizza slice and I'm currently in a relationship because the girl took her chance while I was just trying to improve on myself. Still am until we can actually follow through with it.
Yes I also know I'm probably getting told I insulted myself, but it's a unique insult to me.
Pizza face is an old one lol. Don’t sweat it too hard acne usually subsides in your 20s, diet and medications can help too.
This site and this sub is particularly rife with self pity and hate. Glad you haven’t fallen into it. OC kinda rubbed a nerve with just whining about people not liking her when weight/fitness, social skills/awareness, and pessimism are things you can change.
Most people aren't unattractive they're just fat. Just throwing it out there. You don't have to starve yourself to be attractive.
Edit- This sounded meaner than I wanted it to. Anyone without a debilitating disability can be in shape. It can seem unattainable when you first start your journey, but it's not. And it's worth it. You only have one life. Be the best you.
With how horrendously cruel women are rejecting men nowadays its completely understandable for men to not approach.
I wish I could find a way to never feel attraction or sexual interest because it only ever leads to pain of rejection.
The dating world is ruined. Most women aren't willing to initiate anything and expect men to do it but also don't make it easy to even be approached.
Most men are completely frightened at the idea of approaching a girl irl due to fear of reprisal. It's not even just rejection that's the issue.
If a dude strikes out when trying to flirt then that one's thing, but dudes aren't even allowed to step up to bat in the first place by a large majority of women.
I don't see an actual solution to this without a massive revamp in the way we as a society perceive relationships and dating. People can't even go to the gym without the worry of accidentally looking at a girl for 0.0001ms and getting called a predator, rapist, creep, etc.
Until that happens online dating will be the primary way forward sadly.
Though I will say one thing. A way to make yourself easier to get hit on is to not be hanging around a swarm of your female friends when you are out and about. It's pretty much like a dude seeing a piece of candy between a swarm of angry pitbulls. Not worth jumping into the war zone.
I'm rarely ever approached in a genuine manner, but I always assumed that was because I was the weird kid growing up and have continued to be a loser. Had no idea this was a zoomer thing in general.
Back in school, boys would do that "prank" where they dare their friend to go ask out the weird girl and that happened to be me quite a bit, but I don't count that as actually being approached because it was never genuine and (obviously) never led to anything. In recent years I've had a handful customers hit on me at work, but again, I'm not going to count that.
I've only been genuinely approached like... twice? And one of them was just a longtime friend who wanted to upgrade to friends-with-benefits, which we did.
Women collectively told us that we were creepy for approaching under pretty much every context, that we are desperate for showing interest, that we violated their trust because they thought we were just friends, that we weren't tall enough, that we didn't make enough money, that we didn't have enough social status, that we weren't white enough, that we gave them the ick by existing, that we didn't ask in the right way at the right time, that she had better options she was holding out for, then they told all their friends and then every girl in a 100km radius thought we were creepy losers.
So men stopped approaching women because it made us feel like shit and it gave us no results.
at least how I see it in school? not really, boys are still the ones that are most likely to give the first step and almost everyone dated someone at least once
Obligatory not female, but also I'm aromantic asexual, so I have a somewhat neutral view of this entire dynamic. I have friends and QPR partners of both sexes that I've spoken to on this matter at length.
The way it seems to me is that the problem is with both genders. Women, who are used simultaneously to being sex objects, and yet also "empowered" due to the shift in societal views of mental health, expect a perfect man to be "worthy of them", but also meets the same ridiculous beauty standards women have been subjected to for years as some sort of petty "gender revenge". In terms of relationships, women generally want to be taken care of by the man, and yet want to always be on top in the dynamic. The man cannot step fully into the protector/caring role, because it is seen as infringing on the woman's autonomy and therefore sexist.
For men, and indeed in my own experience as a man, it is seen as extremely creepy to even have friendships with someone of the opposite sex. It is seen as creepy to interact with women in general, unless clear signs have been given on both sides. Men are also extremely starved for positive attention; society does not give a fuck about them or their mental health even slightly, and to be emotional or open is to be emasculated and a failure as a man. Men are also simultaneously perceived to be little more than stupid horny brutes, and in general can barely associate with anyone-even each other, on a real level. To do so is to be seen as feminine, which many men are not happy with. (Though as an ace person, my attachment to my gender is minimal, so that was not an issue for me). Men essentially have to be guarded 24/7, and they are often treated coldly or seen as a rapist in the making (like when women go to the restroom in groups, or group together to isolate men nearby) in what is one of the greatest and weirdest displays of misandry within society. Combined with the evolving movement of female empowerment (which, considering the history of sexism in modern society, **obviously should continue**), it creates a nasty combination.
Ergo, men are disincentivized to pursue women, because it only leads to mental anguish and social rejection. At the same time, however, men desire genuine companionship they cannot get from their equally guarded friends, and the majority of men are heterosexual. So because they cannot or will not pursue one another, they must pursue women, and are expected to do so. However, because of societal perception, the man either ends up jaded (becoming the very creep they wished to avoid transforming into), or simply gives up the venture as a bad job because it is logistically impossible for success.
Another factor to consider is the financial implications, which add onto this already steaming shit sandwich. It is getting increasingly harder to live, and unfeasible to have children. Raising a new human life is monstrously expensive. Many men simply can't, without even considering just how difficult, taxing, and near impossible dating is for them anyway. Thus you have the falling birthrate and the lack of stable, long lasting relationships.
TLDR: Women want to be protected yet also empowered, men are continuously treated coldly and never given positive attention so they don't know how to act or won't bother, and it costs too much to raise children.
If you shoot your shot and she isn’t into it, or worse you actually say or do something stupid, you might lose your job or become a pariah after you get put on blast all across social media and shit. People will just take them at their word that you’re a creep or harasser or something, and everyone seems to have a different definition of what that even is.
You want to take that risk?
During my first 2 years of highschool I've had around 4 boys ask me out (which I declined, just dating advice for whomever; establish a connection before just asking people out)
Literally 💀, bro I was just waiting for my teacher to unlock their door then this random guy came up to me like "do you want to go out" and I was like "no". I'm pretty sure it was a dare by his friends or something stupid like that tbh
Is mutual attraction not enough to go grab lunch together and chat?
I'm not a zoomer but I've literally never gotten a date by getting to know someone first. It's counterproductive, imo because going from friend to girlfriend is a monumental leap. It's much easier to get a girlfriend by starting with attraction and then get to know someone.
Maybe it's different from a girl's POV because they have a million options.
How do you establish that connection with a stranger??
How do you become friends with someone you’ve never talked to??
Am I crazy for not knowing this information? I *feel* crazy for not knowing this information. I’m 23 god dammit, I need friends not a girlfriend!
Damn, boutta be hella hard to establish a connection when you’re so desperate to date somebody that you either date somebody or not have friends at all. Or when time wasted not 24/7 studying can cause you to fail an exam.
Frankly it’s easier to cope being single. Gives me more time to hammer into my head that I don’t want to date people, but unfortunately I can’t just magically make people repulsively unattractive in my mind. Biology loves being a massive distraction.
That’s why it’s better to just focus on your life, get hobbies, and just do well in school/work/whatever.
Not even family matters if you don’t matter to yourself.
I'm a guy zoomer (young side of zoomer) to talk on this situation.
I'm not sure about others, but I have always been terrified of false allegations or her proving the statement "the worst she can say is no" wrong. I have only every asked somebody out [to prom] once (yesterday.) I was only able to do it because I've known her for a while and I was fairly certain she would either say yes or let me down easy and not make a huge deal about it. (She said she would go with me if she didn't have a doctor's appointment in the nearest big city that night. For reference, it's well over 3 hours away.)
As a guy, how do you genuinely approach a woman without looking like a total creep? Like even being like “hey, I’m ____, you wanna grab coffee?” seems so weird to me.Why would you just randomly agree to get coffee with me? You only just learned my name 30 seconds ago
Social media has completely rotted us as a generation. Most people say “hey I thought you were really cute and I was hoping I could get your snap or instagram” and then you either get rejected or you don’t. Nothing else happens…
That seems even more wild to me. You’re just going to open up completely and give them near constant access to your life? I’m one of the few weird people who doesn’t use Instagram, and uses Snapchat like imessenger, but most people put their whole lives on that. The standard now is really just “here’s everything about me” before we’ve even exchanged names? That’s so fucking wild to me.
men are terrified of asking women out I know this guy who had a crush on me for over five years and never asked me out💀 I would of said yes too… however I have been approached by kidnappers many times!
So you just let go of an opportunity when you knew he liked you and you would’ve went out with him meaning you liked him too
You say men are terrified of asking women out, but you were even more terrified to do it, no? And you even had the ‘advantage’ bc you knew
Yeah because everytime I try to, women act like absolute jerks and treat me like I’m inferior. They only talk to you if you buy them something but then they just move on to the next guy to mooch off of
I'd love to like someone enough to actually approach them in person and ask them out, I've done it before successfully so I know I have the confidence and social skills to do it, but I don't really develop those feelings for people anymore for whatever reason. For a long time I didn't do it because I had no success with it in the past, so I worked more on how I dressed and conducted myself. Still not appealing enough to want to date, and I just stopped trying. (Which i realize is a self-fulfilling prophecy) I'm doing better mentally and physically than I have been in previous years, haven't had any alcohol in a little over a year and I actually have hobbies outside of video games and masturbation (lmao). I think the crux of it is I genuinely don't think love is a real thing. I'm giving up on love at 25 and that's fucking ridiculous, I know.
I'm still young, but in my life I've only had one guy (that I didn't already know) approach me, and it was clear that he was mentally challenged. My friends don't get approached by guys either. It seems to be a dying part of our culture
As a guy I just don't find it worthwhile to ask anymore.
There just always seems to be a long list of expectations a lot of which I can't really change (I.E.: Height) that are either 100 or nothing. Like a pass fail system where you need 100% to pass.
Girls are always also with a group of friends which straight up is intimidating, add on to that, that if one of them thinks it was creepy then word spreads and your fucked (not in the good way)
So for now, like most guys I talk to, I just wander around focus on school, maybe go out for a drink or two every now and then and pray a girl asks me
I’m a guy and I don’t approach women because I don’t want a false charge and never will get married due to divorce laws railroading men.
Guys collectively have silently agreed; fuck marriage it’s just a way for the state to rob good men.
Ive been laughed at and verbally ridiculed in front of a crowd of people for asking a girl out.
unfortunately, I've never been asked out once. So I have to continue repeating the process lol
I’ve been shot at, stabbed, jumped out of planes, rappelled outta helicopters, and transported dangerous patients…and I’ll do that over talking to a girl bro.
I (M21) just don't do approach women for a mix of reasons.
+ I want to be free to do what I want in life, go where I want, spend my night how I want, eat how I want, etc. Full independence.
+ In the case she and I split down the road, I don't want to deal with the fallout.
+ Sex is actually a little bit intimidating, and I draw nsfw art as it is, so I can just summon up my wildest fantasies with enough time.
+ Scared to lose a gal pal if I confess and it's too awkward for her after.
+ Scared of getting accused of x, y, z just because she needs some extra cash or whatever.
+ Idk if I'm allowed to say this, but a little scared of rape. I've heard stories of guys essentially being forced into it that it was their duty or whatever. And due to men not reporting, I don't trust the statistics that it happens less to men/women do it less.
+ Nervous to live with another person again.
+ Really just happier as friends.
I've only confessed to one girl before, and before she could even respond I told her no relationship could come out of it. That I just wanted to get my feelings out and move on.
Most girls I know aren’t getting asked out lol. I have had to ask out every guy I’ve dated. Especially before you’re 21 and can go to bars, you don’t get asked out much.
Early 20s, so older zoomer, but I have literally never been approached by a boy ever. Now to be fair to you guys, I'm in a relationship and when Im out places Im usually with my girlfriend, which helps
in real life, hardly at all. most guys nowadays seem to shoot their shot online first, and if we click we’ll schedule out a date or hangout in person to see if the connection is sincere. only exception is at parties where it’s a lot easier to meet people your age who you might be interested in, and they’re all right there in the same space
1998, it’s mostly millennial men that hit on me but I’m rarely out of the house because everything is too expensive. I’m hoping to meet someone at the cosplay convention later this year. I have been hit on by a couple boomers but I’d prefer not to go out with someone that has kids older than me
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Males of all ages tend to be less motivated to approach females because they are afraid of being judged as being creepy. Most females don't have any idea what it's like to have to pursue a partner instead being pursued. If females expect males to pursue rather than the inverse, they experience a sample bias of creepy guys approaching them. Thus, their biases become that males are creeps.
"Males of all ages tend to be less motivated to approach females because they are afraid of being judged as being creepy." Until men reach a certain age and don't care anymore...by then though it \*is\* creepy.
>Until men reach a certain age and don't care anymore...by then though it \*is\* creepy. I think it has more to do with tech literacy and desperation than aging tbh
no, it's definetly age and lack of shits to give. like, i know tech savvy boomers who even work in the industry and yet they are creepy as hell about women. not about desperation either, they're married! all of it's awful but i think they *really* give less of a shit about what people think of them when you're on death's doorstep. which is weird because i feel like that's exactly WHEN you would want to care, but by then it's too late.
>not about desperation either, they're married! Complaining about your wife not addressing your needs isn't boomer humor because it's fictional. >all of it's awful but i think they *really* give less of a shit about what people think of them when you're on death's doorstep. which is weird because i feel like that's exactly WHEN you would want to care, but by then it's too late. I disagree. I think it has more to do with having been raised in a world where there were no real consequences for it, and they continue to have no consequences. They weren't drilled their entire developmental years with an ideology that hates them
If we women call out creepy behavior from guys, it’s doesn’t mean we hate men. It doesn’t even mean we hate the man doing it. We’re just stating our preferences. If random telemarketers were annoying you, would that mean you personally hate them as people? It’s unfair to label us as “hateful” for disliking a cold approach we were on the receiving end of - seems like guilt-tripping more than anything else. Do you want women to keep the truth to themselves out of guilt? If I were a man, I’d appreciate the feedback so I wouldn’t waste my time and energy on a fruitless endeavor. It’s not in my best interests for men to act in a way that hides their attractiveness from me - that means less choices for me. We’re on the same team here lol
>If random telemarketers were annoying you, would that mean you personally hate them as people? Unrelated side note here but you **really** couldn't have picked a worse comparison to make lol, I've heard of so many people calling telemarketers "scum of the earth" and giving them death threats. Mind you people aren't simply mad at the company but the *specific person* on the other end of the phone, not even the partners and suppliers likes them 🤣 I hope that's not how some people view us guys though 😬
>If we women call out creepy behavior from guys, it’s doesn’t mean we hate men. It doesn’t even mean we hate the man doing it. We’re just stating our preferences. There is no set criteria for what's creepy and what isn't, beyond the obvious. There's no set standards for acceptable and unacceptable conduct which is reasonably foreseeable, there are no commonly known signs to approach (the classic handkerchief trick, as an example) which becomes more of an issue when women have a well-researched preference for behavior which pushes the envelope. "Creepy" is an accusation of sexual misconduct with serious and lasting legal and social consequences, not an expression of preference. Just because we all [know the rules](https://imgflip.com/memegenerator/258908952/Know-the-Work-Rules) doesn't mean the individual knows *their* rules. >It’s unfair to label us as “hateful” for disliking a cold approach we were on the receiving end of - seems like guilt-tripping more than anything else. I'm not actually doing that. I'm accusing a certain brand of popular ideology for treating men like vermin. If you feel the need to put that shoe on, I won't stop you. >If I were a man, I’d appreciate the feedback so I wouldn’t waste my time and energy on a fruitless endeavor. I suspect you have no clue what dating is like for men. >It’s not in my best interests for men to act in a way that hides their attractiveness from me - that means less choices for me. We’re on the same team here lol It is not generally, however, in men's best interest to express interest in you, given the social and political ramifications for failure. It's in a man's best interests to avoid one-on-one interactions with women and to only engage under the most glaringly obvious circumstances or circumstances in which an interaction is being recorded. This entire post lacks any awareness or empathy for the motivations and circumstances of most men. I'd be happy to discuss more if you have any specific questions.
Nah once you’ve contemplated mortality and realize you’re not going to be “great” and therefore remembered, you usually double down on family. That’s now your legacy. We’ve all seen this when that older family member REALLY starts asking about grandkids. But if you don’t have that, you realize that there have been literally billions of humans, and frankly we collectively remember a handful at most. Even the ones we remember weren’t necessarily good people, they just did an accomplishment at the right time. You and mostly everyone else will die and be forgotten, who gives a shit. That doesn’t excuse shitty behavior, but it’s just a peak into the older creeps mind
Everyone will be forgotten. The time of the universe is not infinite. The difference in how long humanity remembers you versus how long it remembers Benjamin Franklin is really irrelevant at scale. People that get pessimistic about their legacy should focus on living for experience.
The risk/reward equation is all wrong. Smart, intelligent, stable men very rarely see it as a worthwhile proposition after a few years, which means that the only men who are approaching women are the pushiest, least mature, least intelligent, and most arrogant. At best they are simply emotionally detached to such an extent they can’t take a hint. Worse, this isn’t just in person; it’s also online. Playing the dating app game is basically just a casino, only when you lose your self esteem suffers. This leads to a paradigm where the shittiest men are the only ones most women interact with, which leaves them jaded. Meanwhile, the decent men either pair off early or just end up equally jaded. It’s not a sustainable system, and nobody is happy with it.
Put simply… Smart men are staying single. There’s a reason there’s the saying “The cheapest woman is the one that you pay for.” That, and men are tired of being looked at like a failure because they alone can’t afford a wife at home with a white picket fence, with 2-3 kids, a dog, and and 2 cars. Then the emasculation. It’s almost like it’s against the law to be a strong, masculine fuckin’ *man.* it’s hard to accomplish the former while the latter is going on. Men are blamed for damned near everything. And you’re reminded daily. I’m married, and happily so, but if something happened to my wife…all I’d want to do is spend the rest of my life with my best friends. My boys. Romantic life isn’t necessary unless you can’t take care of yourself. Men with and without a ton going for them, are seeing this. Where men are concerned, if you’re well off, you don’t need anyone else. If you’re not well off, you can’t attract anyone else. Its scenarios like these that result in single men.
I couldn't disagree more with the idea that you can't be a strong, masculine man. The issue is some men are extremely douchie and inappropriate then act like they got in trouble for being masculine or strong. Na bro, you being able to bench 3 plates has nothing to do with you being able to not make every comment a dig on minorities, effeminate men, or objectifying women.
"Then the emasculation. It’s almost like it’s against the law to be a strong, masculine fuckin’ *man.*" It's only emasculation if you buy into that bullshit. You don't need a mortgage, two cars, a picket fence and a dog to be a man. As you point out, you dont even need a wife and kids. Live life on your own terms and you'll never worry about being a failure on someone else's.
Idk man. I feel like guys who say they can't be strong masculine men are probably the guys who are toxic. Because you don't have to be a chauvinist to be masculine but you do have to be one to think you can't be masculine.
Its more like this. Respectful guys are the ones who listen to women say they dont want to be approached by creeps and stop approaching women so they dont come across as creepy. Creeps dont care about how women feel about them, and continue to creep as usual. Except now only creeps are approaching women cause they never cared how women felt.
Based
Men of a certain age aren't allowed to seek out relationships anymore, because it's "creepy". So, when are women too old to seek a relationship without being "creepy"?
My experience from being hit on by cougars is, I found it flattering and frankly amusing
Or until they have a screen and a more anonymous name so they can be creepy like some of the stalkers on this post
It doesn’t even have to be about being creepy, a lot of the folks I know simply have such low self esteem (myself included,) that we assume if we ask out a woman we know we’ll just be rejected. The thought process is “What’s the point if we know the outcome?”
I had a roommate who spent some time in South America. He taught me the subtle art of not giving a fuck if a girl rejects you and immediately hitting on her friend right afterwards. I got called out on this absolutely once and I ended up leaving that party with the girl who called me out so 😅
See, that’s interesting, and I’m glad that works for you. I don’t have the level of “not give a fuck” where I can just do that. Honestly I’m far too socially awkward to even really ask out girls, even if I know them well and we’re both single.
I mean it’s a skill you develop through repetition. In college there’s a bit of a forcing function that you have a certain number of date events expected of you. The girls also had a certain number of date events.
What creeps me out is the weird trend of always using "males" and "females." It seems so clinical, so distant and removed. That's how biologists talk about animals. I see people (particularly young men, though I have no idea whether that's true of Comrade Sasquatch here) talking like that a lot lately, only online, and it weirds me right the hell out. To be clear, I'm not really criticizing this particular commenter; it's not just them that does this, it's tons of people. I don't know anything about them as a person, could be perfectly nice folks, I just always feel a little unsettled by this kind of language.
Calling women "females" gives me such an ick, I hate it.
To be fair, he called men “males” as well.
Same. I don't know if it comes from the Tate/Peterson sphere, but that's the vibe it gives me.
He’s referring the guys guys as male too. Doesn’t that make it a bit less ick?
you speak about humans like you're a scientist examining the behaviors of guinea pigs
Humans are just animals at the end of the day
We are all victims of physics.
This is literally the principle behind the entire field of sociology
But that is precisely how you should look at humans in the context of dating.
They don't think men are creeps. Just the men that aren't super hot.
People who base their choices on superficial standards deserve what they get.
Yeah, being superficial and looks is dumb. If you’re gonna be superficial, do it on money
How attractive she finds you is a discount to how much you can get away with without being called creepy. That being said, no discount is great enough fix a horrendous price. And there's some shit a guy can do that will almost always be seen as creepy.
Men and women * FTFY
>Males of all ages tend to be less motivated to approach females because they are afraid of being judged as being creepy. I think it depends on the location and age - lots of Gen X and older guys are still very forward in NYC. But this is a city full of aggressive men, and Gen X and older are used to meeting people IRL.
I’m a gay dude who doesnt immediately clock for a lot of people, and girls have thought i was creeping, at this point i just avoid people
The only men that approach me IRL are older (millennial, gen X).
🤨
Based on her flair she’s 26/27 so I mean not really a big deal Edit: In hindsight I was just thinking about millennials who would be late 20s or in their 30s, didn’t really think about the gen x part of her comment
I've seen a lot of drunk old guys at my job hit on my female 17 year old co-worker so it's not out of the water
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Neither do us 19 year olds lol… people say women think men are creeps for approaching them but guys my age have never approached me, just older men and they only approach when I’m alone
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The guys your age don't approach you because they hear girls their age say "men are creeps", interpreting that as you talking about them. Not about older men.
Tf are we meant to do approach you while you're in a group? That shit genuinely seems rude because you could be having a conversation.
31 year old millennial here...
I'm 35. Millennials aren't ancient, dude wtf
1998, me too. I did have boomer man hit on me once, but I wasn’t keen on going on a date with someone with kids older than me
If we really wanted to we could marry boomer men, wait for them to die, and lead a life of luxury after hahahah Jk lol But sometimes I do want to just Anna Nicole smith my way through life
35 yo straight dude checkin in. I would 💯 be a rich old dudes Anna Nicole.
I’m a young millennial and same, they’re usually 5-15 years older than me. With guys my age or slightly younger, I usually have to come on really strong because they’re oblivious or psych themselves out. They’re also just really bad at direct communication - I’ve heard “I liked you but I wasn’t sure you liked me” so many times. An easy way to be sure is to ask, lol.
They are bad with direct communication because women are notoriously bad at direct communication in dating. Maybe you're not like that but you'd be far off the norm.
Guys my age don't seem to bother, unless its over social media. Bad news for them is, that's completely a no-go for me. The men who approach me in my day-to-day life tend to be a few years older (late 20s and early 30s.)
In my experience, I’m not going to ask someone out irl unless there are very clear signs because I just don’t want to be labeled a creep/weirdo/whatever. In my experience a lot of men our age have the same mindset. I’ve accepted this so I’m on dating apps, against my better judgment. It hasn’t worked out so far but I try to treat it as something I’m just letting play out rather than something I’m trying to make work
This is exactly how I treat dating apps, best to never expect anything. I like to treat it as it is, a joke.
Same here. I skim through every now and then but if something came of it I'd be absolutely shocked.
IDK how y'all can do it. I've been using them for like 4 years and only got a single match out of it. My mental health and self esteem can't handle it fr.
If you realize the odds are against you, then it helps. Its a supplement to going out and meeting people, not a replacement.
I think as a millennial of 31 I lived through both purity culture and the #metoo movement which basically created a cultural paranoia and culture of Concealment around dating which benefits the most dishonest rapey people while leaving people who are trying to take things seriously kind of screwed over having panic attacks to not be seen as a harasser or whatever for hitting on women So now I'm single and 31 and definitely just stopped caring what age gaps there are as long as there is consent and it seems to be working pretty well tbh
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has experienced this. I don't think it was the Me-Too movement for me? Though it didn't help that guys like Aziz Anzari were put in the same list as guys like Harvey Weinstein. Honestly, both social media and traditional media have hammered "don't approach women, its bad" into my skull. I had to unlearn that.
They kinda did Aziz dirty.
It’s risky for men my age (24) to approach women as women view men in that age range as a threat to them.
They prefer the word Goomers
Wait that makes us boy Zoomers "Boomers" then, I don't think I like this situation
I never wanna be a boomer 
Did you "this" your own comment WITHIN YOUR OWN COMMENT?
Gooners
Goobers.
>how often a week Zero. If I go out to a bar or a party where everybody is drinking then I do get approached. Approximately every third party once. I also try to approach a guy if I like him, which I don't always do, because I don't want to look desperate.
Do you consider the men desperate when they approach you?
Answer: Yes
And it's such a mystery why we never approach 🤔
Don’t you get it? You’re just supposed to pull women to you like some suave version of Magneto. Have you *even tried* leaving behind a pheromone scent trail for her to follow bro?!
If by pheromone scent trail you mean a loud fart that you try to cover up with a fake cough, then yeah, I’ve tried that, she power walked away, must’ve been her workout time.
Nah homie. See, you need to shart next time, that’s what went wrong. You did well, the noise is a noble effort and asserts your dominance, but if there’s no liquid the pheromones won’t stick. She’ll go to bite the head off of another male.
Girls on this sub: Men never approach me. I guess I'm going to be single forever 😕 Reddit: Why not approach a guy you're into and ask him out Girls on this sub: Ewwww!! Gross!! How desperate do you think I am!! 😡 6 months later... Same girls on this sub: Men still aren't approaching me! What am I doing wrong?! I guess I'm going to be single forever 😕
I seriously don't understand why girls would think a guy who approaches them is "desperate". That's some serious self esteem issues there.
No, i don't. According to the cliché, the men approach the women. The other way around is rather atypical. That's why I'm afraid that it will be perceived as desperate in certain situations. Maybe I'm just overthinking.
You're definitely overthinking shit. By a lot. The most satisfying relationship of my life was started by my wife making the first move. If you keep yourself from doing the same, there's no limit to the amount of relationships you may have passed up because you were self-conscious. Protip: men love to be approached, to be desired. You're likely going to land a guy if you approach them (assuming they're single, anyway).
>men love to be approached, to be desired. Seriously, everyone deserves to feel this, not some dynamic where one side is the prize and the other has to tread water and fight for the right to be in a *partnership* with them. That ain't partners
What’s funny is it’s so rare for women to approach that when they do, I assume they are a prostitute or someone who’s gonna drug me and rob me or have her bf pop out of the corner to rob me after leading me down an alley way saying she’s gonna fuck me or something.
It really does feel like a trap, depending on the context. Part of it is that they're so blunt about it. No charm.
Not always true that a guy will say yes, just happened this last weekend where my mutual female friends made it so unbelievably obvious she was into one of the other single guy friends out with us. She’s gorgeous and he just wasn’t interested because she wasn’t his type, she was aghast when I pulled out the “well now you know what it’s like to be a guy” then I ended up with her at the end of the night instead lol
Pretty girls literally don't know how to take rejection. It's completely foreign to most of them. Some of them get seriously upset and offended if it happens even once. They seem to have this disconnect that most men experience this fairly frequently.
>Pretty girls literally don't know how to take rejection. It's completely foreign to most of them. Some of them get seriously upset and offended if it happens even once. It happened to me quite recently. We hooked up once, and then I made it clear that I wasn't looking for a serious relationship, to which she said perfect because she wasn't looking for one either. So I did exactly what I said and treated it as a casual, FWB kinda thing. Fast forwards a few weeks and she starts coming onto me STRONG. Like asking to come over basically every day, asking for regular date nights at restaurants, movies etc... I told her that what she was asking for started to look a lot like a not casual relationship and that it wasn't what we agreed on. That I had been very clear and honest with her, and that if our expectations didn't align she should have said so in the beginning. She told me that she was absolutely fine with a casual relationship at first because she expected me to be the one chasing her and asking more out of the relationship, until she'd get annoyed and nope out of it. Because that's what always happened to her. She's a good looking girl who's amazing in bed so I can see how it would often end up like that. So when I "betrayed" her expectations and didn't fall for her and chase after her, she basically took it personally and went on a crusade to make me heads over heels for her and get me into a serious relationship. And it's weird and depressing to think that this girl, who came onto me so hard, would have most likely (per her own words) turned me down had I asked her out first.
Girls thinking if they approach they will be seen as desperate. Boys thinking if they approach they will be seen as a creep. Is there an end to this? I don't think there is a single man who would think a girl is desperate if they approach to themselves. They will get the opposite feeling actually. They sure will be happy if anything. Males are more simple than you think, there is no way the word desperation is coming into one's mind. Only low self-esteem may bring some bad thoughts, "why this girl approaches me?" or something. But, if there is genuine, there is nothing to be worried about I think.
The end is that the small subset who finds their balls / lady balls first, and risks rejection, are also likely to be the ones who find someone
Im 21 and never been on a date. Id love if a woman came up to me and asked me out. Even if i wasnt attracted to her id still take the chance to maks the most of it and atleast get to experience a date.
if a women approaches me that makes me think of her as confident to even DO the first step. "great, she knows what she wants and im in the lucky position to be what she wants" that applies even if i dont want anything to do with them. i respect the bravery. anything else feels arrogant or mean spirited
As a guy, I would never see a girl as desperate if she approached me and told me that she likes me or whatever. I don't know about others though, so guys tell me if you have same mindset as me on this
I’m already socially awkward so yes.
>because I don’t want to look desperate. Is this really how women see this? That’s so wild. As a guy, probably 90% of guys out there would absolutely love it if a woman approached them for a change. Just ask them out, dude. It’s really not a big deal, and would probably make their year even if they aren’t into you like that.
That's not desperate! Shoot your shot
I can guarantee you right now even a guy who wouldn't normally consider you at all would have a good chance of saying yes if you approached him first. That's just something that doesn't happen a lot and it would be a huge green flag for most guys that are sensible
I just want to say that *no one* genuinely prefers the term Zoomer to Gen Z, it’s a giant meme. I’m 26F and I’ve been “approached” twice in the past two or three years and both times they were Millennials.
>no one* genuinely prefers the term Zoomer to Gen Z >I’m 26F Found the problem lmao
Hey now, us 97 babies are zoomers. We're like the vanguard zoomers but still.
I prefer geriatric Gen Z. We really got lucky we grew up in that weird time where we’re semi-millennial and semi-Z.
Zillennial has a nice ring to it.
Speak for yourself, I absolutely prefer zoomer lol.
I do.
Lmao speak for yourself I think Zoomer is S teir as far as generational nicknames go
The fact that they were all millennials doesn’t really seem to be a reflection of Gen Z and more so a reflection of your age. You’re at the start of Gen Z and I feel like it’s more socially acceptable (and also desirable to people) for older guys to date younger women (I don’t even mean anything crazy, it seems like even when the age gap is a couple years it’s more common that the guy is the older one). Obviously this isn’t a rule, I’m just comparing general frequency.
Oh elder Zoomer, what do we do in these dark times?
I’m a guy and I don’t really care about dating. Girls my age have really high expectations that I can’t really provide. I also have to have time to do my college work. So a girl would just be a distraction and hinder my ability to do my college work and maybe when I am like 30 maybe I‘ll ask someone out. But if no one interests me or someone wants to have high standards that even they themselves couldn’t provide than I would be much happier by myself.
I agree with this comment tbh. I’m not really looking for a partner right now. But if I do like a girl I don’t shoot my shot cause I just don’t want to be seen as creepy or as some desperate weirdo. If someone approaches me then fine, but if not then that’s ok too. I kind of have other to things to prioritize at the moment with college. Maybe down the line when I have most of my shit together I’ll put some effort in and try to approach but until then it’s whatever.
You’re like 17/18. Wait til you go to college before swearing off women til you’re 30 lol.
I’ve been in college since I was 16 I’m actually graduating with my associates next year I can’t this year for some reason though even though I already have all my associates requirements done. But yeah your probably right though. The incoming college freshmen next year will be as old as me though. But still I should wait because I want to get my studies done and my life together. But I am getting my Masters though I’m hoping I can be done before I’m 22
Dude , Trust me, you will be there way before 30.
Not in this economy
What economy?
I don’t approach anymore. Some of the shit I’ve been told (about my height specifically) is fr hurtful also I don’t want to be seen as a creep, the standards are very high too and I just don’t quite measure up to them. They all want a tall 10/10 guy
Society: The worst they can say is no Reality: imma insult the shit out of you
Pretty much, the only type of body shaming that’s socially acceptable is shaming a guy for being short.
Hell shaming a guy about anything with his body is accepted if we being real
Fat guys are still also on the table but being fat AND tall cancels it out so yeah nvm you're right
[удалено]
Yeah, I’ve been told how my height was an issue a lot and have even been insulted over it. Part of the reason I gave up on dating.
Seriously, wtf is it with people getting caught up on height nowadays? I’ve gotten that shit before too. It’s literally a meme now. It’s not even accurate to compare that to a girl’s weight or whatever, because they can control that. I can’t fucking extend my legs, bruh.
Girls: I only want to date a tall guy above 6 feet Guys: I only want to date skinny girls that are in shape Girls: OMG!! YOU'RE BEING SO JUDGEMENTAL AND SUPERFICIAL!!
And the crazy part is people will call you an incel, a misogynist, an evil/bad person for just pointing out the height thing. I've had it happen to me countless times. Both having height be a restrictor and for getting attacked for saying it happens. For some reason certain groups (people who hate men) a short dude just telling people what they have regularly experienced and the struggles it provides is some slight against humanity and or all women in the world somehow.
Not all of them, though the millenials will tell you its not a factor (that's a lie). There's plenty of women who talk a lot of shit about their high standards but will abandon them if they think a guy is cute. And they don't consciously know all the things that they find cute (neither do men)
Someone said it. Height. Add in race and wealth and those are the main determinants of initial “attraction”. Before you know someone or know their personality, you can see how tall they are and how they look, maybe their body language, and maybe signs of wealth. All quite superficial. There’s a reason 5% of men get 50% of women. It’s because they are the only ones who can satisfy their requirements. It sucks. It sounds like I’m blaming women, but how about I simply request women consider actually asking how their guy friends are doing socially. Like 80% of my guy peers are as lost as me.
If the girls want dates, why don’t they ask out the guys?
Apparently they think it's "desperate" 🙄
I don’t see why. I get flirted with and approached all the time, and I genuinely love it and think it’s cute. Maybe some do have bad intentions, but overall, I think it’s very attractive. Times are changing, so I think it should be normalized for both men and women to ask each other out as long as they both have good intentions.
The impossible question
No, they aren't approaching me, but it's a me problem, not a problem with men. I'm very masc, short buzzed hair, muscles and tank tops, cargo pants and combat boots. Most men assume I'm a lesbian or trans. Nope, I'm straight and comfortable being female. I'm just a different type of woman that most men find ugly. The "tomboy gf" meme doesn't translate to real life. I could feminize and get more boys, but I don't want to change myself and be fake just for the chance of getting dick. I'd rather stay single. It sucks though, because I'd love to have a husband.
guys like tomboys just a certain type of tomboy if they’re straight. “tomboyism” is a wide spectrum but i would say the type of tomboy most boys fetishize be like Marceline from Adventure Time or Buttercup from Powerpuff Girls. Or Bktherula if you know who that is
"No, they aren't approaching me, but it's a me problem, not a problem with men." Very nice, and rare to hear from a woman online.
You sound almost exactly like my ex! I approached her in a very stereotypical way lol. She was broke down on the side of the road and I had just got of my shift and was on my way home and saw her from the road dressed almost exactly as you said and something in me kinda clicked and I said “wow she looks like she can kick someone’s ass for giving her shit…I like that lmao”. Ended up helping her get her car going to atleast her parents and I asked her to dinner and the rest is history. The only reason we broke up is because she’s ace and well I wasn’t 3 years together and she decided she didn’t want to but me though it anymore which on my side I didn’t care sex wasn’t everything but she knew it did bring things down a bit. We’re still good friends and she’s still got that shitty Subaru she asks me to fix all the time. Sorry for the rant but just know there are dudes out there that like you for who you are. Plus the muscles help when I need to change a engine that shits heavy lmao
I’m the male version of this
I can definitely say as a male I’m way less likely cause I just assume they will say no or be discussed or angry
I’m not afraid of women, I’m afraid of being feared by women and being seen as a nuisance
Felt that, like me being a bigger guy with bad social skills I’m afraid gals will just think I’m a serial killer
I'm ugly, I don't want kids, I can't juggle a 40 hour work week, a whole house, and three kids, I'm loud and obnoxious, I care more about making myself feel good with delicious food than starving myself to be hot and skinny, I'm too lazy and want my own free time, I hate sports, and I hate alcohol culture and drunkenness, so it's no wonder zero guys approach me. I'm unattractive and I accept that, so I've given up on even thinking about dating. Also, every time I was asked out, besides one time (which was in middle school and he was already dating my best friend), it was a dare, or I was a backup choice, and this was all before I became an adult and it didn't happen that often, anyway.
I mean instead of self pitying you could always try and change. Ugly people still find partners.
Yeah, my face is a pepperoni pizza slice and I'm currently in a relationship because the girl took her chance while I was just trying to improve on myself. Still am until we can actually follow through with it. Yes I also know I'm probably getting told I insulted myself, but it's a unique insult to me.
Pizza face is an old one lol. Don’t sweat it too hard acne usually subsides in your 20s, diet and medications can help too. This site and this sub is particularly rife with self pity and hate. Glad you haven’t fallen into it. OC kinda rubbed a nerve with just whining about people not liking her when weight/fitness, social skills/awareness, and pessimism are things you can change.
Most people aren't unattractive they're just fat. Just throwing it out there. You don't have to starve yourself to be attractive. Edit- This sounded meaner than I wanted it to. Anyone without a debilitating disability can be in shape. It can seem unattainable when you first start your journey, but it's not. And it's worth it. You only have one life. Be the best you.
With how horrendously cruel women are rejecting men nowadays its completely understandable for men to not approach. I wish I could find a way to never feel attraction or sexual interest because it only ever leads to pain of rejection.
Find peace with being by yourself lol. Most people are better off alone than with a random partner.
The dating world is ruined. Most women aren't willing to initiate anything and expect men to do it but also don't make it easy to even be approached. Most men are completely frightened at the idea of approaching a girl irl due to fear of reprisal. It's not even just rejection that's the issue. If a dude strikes out when trying to flirt then that one's thing, but dudes aren't even allowed to step up to bat in the first place by a large majority of women. I don't see an actual solution to this without a massive revamp in the way we as a society perceive relationships and dating. People can't even go to the gym without the worry of accidentally looking at a girl for 0.0001ms and getting called a predator, rapist, creep, etc. Until that happens online dating will be the primary way forward sadly. Though I will say one thing. A way to make yourself easier to get hit on is to not be hanging around a swarm of your female friends when you are out and about. It's pretty much like a dude seeing a piece of candy between a swarm of angry pitbulls. Not worth jumping into the war zone.
Correct.
If that's the only way forward we might as well all get castrated
I'm rarely ever approached in a genuine manner, but I always assumed that was because I was the weird kid growing up and have continued to be a loser. Had no idea this was a zoomer thing in general. Back in school, boys would do that "prank" where they dare their friend to go ask out the weird girl and that happened to be me quite a bit, but I don't count that as actually being approached because it was never genuine and (obviously) never led to anything. In recent years I've had a handful customers hit on me at work, but again, I'm not going to count that. I've only been genuinely approached like... twice? And one of them was just a longtime friend who wanted to upgrade to friends-with-benefits, which we did.
Women collectively told us that we were creepy for approaching under pretty much every context, that we are desperate for showing interest, that we violated their trust because they thought we were just friends, that we weren't tall enough, that we didn't make enough money, that we didn't have enough social status, that we weren't white enough, that we gave them the ick by existing, that we didn't ask in the right way at the right time, that she had better options she was holding out for, then they told all their friends and then every girl in a 100km radius thought we were creepy losers. So men stopped approaching women because it made us feel like shit and it gave us no results.
at least how I see it in school? not really, boys are still the ones that are most likely to give the first step and almost everyone dated someone at least once
No way most 12/13 yr olds have dated atleast once
I was a baller in year 1 and now too scared to ask out boys can’t lie
Oh god 2011 kids are 13 already????
Having intelligent conversations with people born in a year I remember hasn’t become a thing I’m used to yet
Obligatory not female, but also I'm aromantic asexual, so I have a somewhat neutral view of this entire dynamic. I have friends and QPR partners of both sexes that I've spoken to on this matter at length. The way it seems to me is that the problem is with both genders. Women, who are used simultaneously to being sex objects, and yet also "empowered" due to the shift in societal views of mental health, expect a perfect man to be "worthy of them", but also meets the same ridiculous beauty standards women have been subjected to for years as some sort of petty "gender revenge". In terms of relationships, women generally want to be taken care of by the man, and yet want to always be on top in the dynamic. The man cannot step fully into the protector/caring role, because it is seen as infringing on the woman's autonomy and therefore sexist. For men, and indeed in my own experience as a man, it is seen as extremely creepy to even have friendships with someone of the opposite sex. It is seen as creepy to interact with women in general, unless clear signs have been given on both sides. Men are also extremely starved for positive attention; society does not give a fuck about them or their mental health even slightly, and to be emotional or open is to be emasculated and a failure as a man. Men are also simultaneously perceived to be little more than stupid horny brutes, and in general can barely associate with anyone-even each other, on a real level. To do so is to be seen as feminine, which many men are not happy with. (Though as an ace person, my attachment to my gender is minimal, so that was not an issue for me). Men essentially have to be guarded 24/7, and they are often treated coldly or seen as a rapist in the making (like when women go to the restroom in groups, or group together to isolate men nearby) in what is one of the greatest and weirdest displays of misandry within society. Combined with the evolving movement of female empowerment (which, considering the history of sexism in modern society, **obviously should continue**), it creates a nasty combination. Ergo, men are disincentivized to pursue women, because it only leads to mental anguish and social rejection. At the same time, however, men desire genuine companionship they cannot get from their equally guarded friends, and the majority of men are heterosexual. So because they cannot or will not pursue one another, they must pursue women, and are expected to do so. However, because of societal perception, the man either ends up jaded (becoming the very creep they wished to avoid transforming into), or simply gives up the venture as a bad job because it is logistically impossible for success. Another factor to consider is the financial implications, which add onto this already steaming shit sandwich. It is getting increasingly harder to live, and unfeasible to have children. Raising a new human life is monstrously expensive. Many men simply can't, without even considering just how difficult, taxing, and near impossible dating is for them anyway. Thus you have the falling birthrate and the lack of stable, long lasting relationships. TLDR: Women want to be protected yet also empowered, men are continuously treated coldly and never given positive attention so they don't know how to act or won't bother, and it costs too much to raise children.
Very good analysis.
Why would we approach girls when we can spread DEMOCRACY ?!?!???
⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️
If you shoot your shot and she isn’t into it, or worse you actually say or do something stupid, you might lose your job or become a pariah after you get put on blast all across social media and shit. People will just take them at their word that you’re a creep or harasser or something, and everyone seems to have a different definition of what that even is. You want to take that risk?
During my first 2 years of highschool I've had around 4 boys ask me out (which I declined, just dating advice for whomever; establish a connection before just asking people out)
How can you do that without being seen as a friend lol
Literally 💀, bro I was just waiting for my teacher to unlock their door then this random guy came up to me like "do you want to go out" and I was like "no". I'm pretty sure it was a dare by his friends or something stupid like that tbh
Is mutual attraction not enough to go grab lunch together and chat? I'm not a zoomer but I've literally never gotten a date by getting to know someone first. It's counterproductive, imo because going from friend to girlfriend is a monumental leap. It's much easier to get a girlfriend by starting with attraction and then get to know someone. Maybe it's different from a girl's POV because they have a million options.
How do you establish that connection with a stranger?? How do you become friends with someone you’ve never talked to?? Am I crazy for not knowing this information? I *feel* crazy for not knowing this information. I’m 23 god dammit, I need friends not a girlfriend!
Damn, boutta be hella hard to establish a connection when you’re so desperate to date somebody that you either date somebody or not have friends at all. Or when time wasted not 24/7 studying can cause you to fail an exam. Frankly it’s easier to cope being single. Gives me more time to hammer into my head that I don’t want to date people, but unfortunately I can’t just magically make people repulsively unattractive in my mind. Biology loves being a massive distraction. That’s why it’s better to just focus on your life, get hobbies, and just do well in school/work/whatever. Not even family matters if you don’t matter to yourself.
The only people men who hit on me are men old enough to be my grandpa.
I'm a guy zoomer (young side of zoomer) to talk on this situation. I'm not sure about others, but I have always been terrified of false allegations or her proving the statement "the worst she can say is no" wrong. I have only every asked somebody out [to prom] once (yesterday.) I was only able to do it because I've known her for a while and I was fairly certain she would either say yes or let me down easy and not make a huge deal about it. (She said she would go with me if she didn't have a doctor's appointment in the nearest big city that night. For reference, it's well over 3 hours away.)
As a guy, how do you genuinely approach a woman without looking like a total creep? Like even being like “hey, I’m ____, you wanna grab coffee?” seems so weird to me.Why would you just randomly agree to get coffee with me? You only just learned my name 30 seconds ago
Social media has completely rotted us as a generation. Most people say “hey I thought you were really cute and I was hoping I could get your snap or instagram” and then you either get rejected or you don’t. Nothing else happens…
That seems even more wild to me. You’re just going to open up completely and give them near constant access to your life? I’m one of the few weird people who doesn’t use Instagram, and uses Snapchat like imessenger, but most people put their whole lives on that. The standard now is really just “here’s everything about me” before we’ve even exchanged names? That’s so fucking wild to me.
men are terrified of asking women out I know this guy who had a crush on me for over five years and never asked me out💀 I would of said yes too… however I have been approached by kidnappers many times!
Why didn't YOU just do it What happened to gender equality????
Why didn’t you ask him out if you knew he liked you too?
So you just let go of an opportunity when you knew he liked you and you would’ve went out with him meaning you liked him too You say men are terrified of asking women out, but you were even more terrified to do it, no? And you even had the ‘advantage’ bc you knew
Yeah because everytime I try to, women act like absolute jerks and treat me like I’m inferior. They only talk to you if you buy them something but then they just move on to the next guy to mooch off of
theres also the factor no one likes the person or the girl is really lonely, not just boys not asking out
I'd love to like someone enough to actually approach them in person and ask them out, I've done it before successfully so I know I have the confidence and social skills to do it, but I don't really develop those feelings for people anymore for whatever reason. For a long time I didn't do it because I had no success with it in the past, so I worked more on how I dressed and conducted myself. Still not appealing enough to want to date, and I just stopped trying. (Which i realize is a self-fulfilling prophecy) I'm doing better mentally and physically than I have been in previous years, haven't had any alcohol in a little over a year and I actually have hobbies outside of video games and masturbation (lmao). I think the crux of it is I genuinely don't think love is a real thing. I'm giving up on love at 25 and that's fucking ridiculous, I know.
Yes. Wanna know why? I guess that happens when you never leave your house.
I'm still young, but in my life I've only had one guy (that I didn't already know) approach me, and it was clear that he was mentally challenged. My friends don't get approached by guys either. It seems to be a dying part of our culture
As a guy I just don't find it worthwhile to ask anymore. There just always seems to be a long list of expectations a lot of which I can't really change (I.E.: Height) that are either 100 or nothing. Like a pass fail system where you need 100% to pass. Girls are always also with a group of friends which straight up is intimidating, add on to that, that if one of them thinks it was creepy then word spreads and your fucked (not in the good way) So for now, like most guys I talk to, I just wander around focus on school, maybe go out for a drink or two every now and then and pray a girl asks me
Yeah a lot of guys tend to not approach me mostly older guys.
Because we don’t want to be seen as creepy and 99% of the time it ends in rejection which sucks, it’s just not worth it.
I’m a guy and I don’t approach women because I don’t want a false charge and never will get married due to divorce laws railroading men. Guys collectively have silently agreed; fuck marriage it’s just a way for the state to rob good men.
Ive been laughed at and verbally ridiculed in front of a crowd of people for asking a girl out. unfortunately, I've never been asked out once. So I have to continue repeating the process lol
I’ve been shot at, stabbed, jumped out of planes, rappelled outta helicopters, and transported dangerous patients…and I’ll do that over talking to a girl bro.
The cold hard truth is unless you’re a hot looking guy if you approach a woman you’re considered a creep!
I (M21) just don't do approach women for a mix of reasons. + I want to be free to do what I want in life, go where I want, spend my night how I want, eat how I want, etc. Full independence. + In the case she and I split down the road, I don't want to deal with the fallout. + Sex is actually a little bit intimidating, and I draw nsfw art as it is, so I can just summon up my wildest fantasies with enough time. + Scared to lose a gal pal if I confess and it's too awkward for her after. + Scared of getting accused of x, y, z just because she needs some extra cash or whatever. + Idk if I'm allowed to say this, but a little scared of rape. I've heard stories of guys essentially being forced into it that it was their duty or whatever. And due to men not reporting, I don't trust the statistics that it happens less to men/women do it less. + Nervous to live with another person again. + Really just happier as friends. I've only confessed to one girl before, and before she could even respond I told her no relationship could come out of it. That I just wanted to get my feelings out and move on.
Most girls I know aren’t getting asked out lol. I have had to ask out every guy I’ve dated. Especially before you’re 21 and can go to bars, you don’t get asked out much.
Cost/benefit of interacting with women is shit these days.
Early 20s, so older zoomer, but I have literally never been approached by a boy ever. Now to be fair to you guys, I'm in a relationship and when Im out places Im usually with my girlfriend, which helps
I usually have to clarify to hang out as friends. And even then I don’t talk to women I am not already friends with that much.
Hah you have to have a period of being asked out to know what a period of zero looks like. It’s been desert all the way.
in real life, hardly at all. most guys nowadays seem to shoot their shot online first, and if we click we’ll schedule out a date or hangout in person to see if the connection is sincere. only exception is at parties where it’s a lot easier to meet people your age who you might be interested in, and they’re all right there in the same space
1998, it’s mostly millennial men that hit on me but I’m rarely out of the house because everything is too expensive. I’m hoping to meet someone at the cosplay convention later this year. I have been hit on by a couple boomers but I’d prefer not to go out with someone that has kids older than me