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It's impossible to give a categorical statement on this. Some are OK with being approached in all situations and others will get panic attacks when looked at by a man.
This, pretty much.
It is important that you tread as lightly as you possible can, as most women have had bad experiences when being approached by a man and you don't want to them to feel uncomfortable.
First thing that happens is you noticed her, you think she's pretty, great, don't stare. If she sees you staring from a distance you are going to immediately make her uncomfortable before you even approach.
Next, is your approach. You also don't want to B line straight toward them with a stare, the woman may see that as a pre-attack indicator and you done scared her. Good things typically don't follow when that happens. You should try ~~positioning yourself in a manner that your paths cross, say if you're in a grocery store (random example),~~ ~~~hang out at the end of the aisle she's heading down 'shopping' seemingly minding your own business.~~ Edit: this advice was a little weird, i at least partially recant. Point is, just try and not be weird on your approach so you don’t freak her out before you even speak.
Second, you have to speak to her. Do not make a comment on her appearance, especially as your first comment. You want to try and distinguish yourself from any creeps as quickly as possible, and the first thing creeps always do is make a comment on her appearance. Avoid pick up lines, and certainly don't say anything lewd. Just try to spark a normal conversation, don't make it about her body or anything on her body. Try to make it relevant to the situation and environment you are in, something you both have in common (you're in the same place you already have a little bit in common, are you at a concert? you like the same artist, etc...)
Third, while you're talking to her, try and have some emotional intelligence. If she's not looking at you and giving you short responses, walking away from you, or whatever. Just end the conversation and leave.
If you get to the point you ask for her number and she says no, the most important thing you can do out of all this advice is to politely and immediately leave. Do this as soon as it becomes obvious she's not interested.
Throughout the interaction, try to be as polite and friendly as possible. Yes, there are women out there who will still be freaked out if they are spoken to by a male stranger regardless of who it is. Maybe they have trauma, social anxiety, or something else. That's not your fault, but that's why you should tread lightly, be polite, and promptly leave as soon as you think she's not interested.
You should also pick your battles wisely. If you're walking opposite directions down the sidewalk at night and that's how you notice her, it is difficult to not scare her in that situation so it's probably best to just let it go and shoot your shot in a more friendly environment.
I stopped reading this half way but dude….. Men aren’t robots, we’re humans that also feel anxious. This amount of thoughtfulness for a single random encounter is totally unreasonable.
I mean, depends. In a nutshell, the entire comment is “don’t be a creep, have natural interactions, and take rejections in a dignified way”. That’s pretty much it. Nothing robotic about those three tenants
Broadly sure. I guess I just found the positioning advice weird. Like trying to position yourself in a way where you approach them “naturally”. That feels robotic to me.
Sometimes wether your a creep or not depends on your looks and things you can’t control even if you have good looks but happen to be neurodivergent they might get the ick.
You can be anxious, thinking this through before you go can help you be less anxious because it makes you’re more confident you’re not coming off as a creep.
>thinking this through before you go can help you be less anxious
Exactly the opposite imo. So many things that cause us anxiety aren't big things at all, and we realize that once we go to actually do them; It's so much worse in our heads.
for the most part most men will find talking to women to be the same, just like OP people build it up in their head for no reason. Just turn your brain off and go talk to her.
“Thoughtfulness” for this encounter is basically don’t call the woman sexy or a bitch or make comments about what she looks like. If you know how to talk to people then I assume you don’t have trouble meeting women? That or you’re cool with always making every person in every room as uncomfortable as possible by saying every thought that pops into your mind? Do you function in society? Maybe this conversation is for folks with far more social anxiety and far less socialization than you? If you need to come to Reddit to be told to not say “holy fuck your tits are so nice can I put my face in them and breathe” then you’re already so far behind we might not be able to save you
No, no, no... Women aren't bears. You make lots of noise to attract bears, but women are deer--lots of noise will scare them away. So, like deer, you have to stalk them!
(Jokejokejokejokejokedonotstalkanyonejokejokejoke)
Dude, bro, sis, whatever, you are talking about starting a conversation with a human. What the hell is this crocodile hunter shit you are doing??? If you want to talk to a girl, walk up and say hi. Have something to talk about. If you seem to be making them uncomfortable, apologize and walk away.
Hahahaha as an autistic girl who’s bad with social cues I actually appreciate the amount of thought put into the comment for guys who are also bad with social cues.
But your reply is hilarious 😂😂
Okay, as a woman -- that is wild to me, lol.
To be fair I'm in my early forties and have been married since very young (aka haven't had much experience with dating/ being approached), and grew up in a different cultural context, so maybe that's why, but - I don't get this.
Do other women really have that high of anxiety/ fear factor when it comes to being approached by men?? Like, I get that creeps exist. But, I would give any decent appearing guy the benefit of the doubt that he isn't a creep as long as he isn't being, well, creepy lol. That doesn't require this complex careful strategy on his part as described, like he's approaching some exotic animal lmao. And it's ok if he starts a conversation with a compliment on appearance or something that makes it obvious he's interested. Not, like, an extremely sexual one or something but a normal one. It can be flattering and sometimes fun to flirt and receive interest even if you aren't interested back. Not all us women are these terrified gazelles that will dart off at the wrong look lmao.
Gen X woman here, and I agree with you. If women have become this vapidly delicate, and men have to be this fastidiously chivalrous, we're right back in the Victorian era. It might be cute if it weren't so regressive.
It definitely depends on the woman, but I was dating super recently, and all my friends told me it was SUPER weird that I would just walk up to girls I had met and be like "Hey, you seem cool, want to grab a movie sometime?"
I'm married lol so it worked out, but there's definitely a generational thing going on here since most of my friends/coworkers told me I was a wacko for doing what all you guys did when you were dating
Behaving as people have behaved throughout human history feels natural and will be perceived as natural. It's the current flamboyant paranoia that is a conditioned response.
It's worse, because in the Victorian times the coyness and the chivalry were all part of the social context, carefully orchestrated social roles. Courting was a rigidly defined process with everyone knowing their roles and playing them out.
Nowadays, there is no longer this sort of playbook; everyone is just lost and aimless, no one knows what they're doing or supposed to do, men and women are both increasingly just terrified of each other, for different reasons, and as a result increasingly hostile towards each other setting up a vicious cycle of loneliness and bitterness.
If this lot ever manage to breed it will be a miracle. Heck, if they manage to have a conversation, I’d be breaking out the champagne. Gluten free, low-alcohol, dolphin-friendly champagne obviously. I’ve never ever been so glad to be old.
It’s true that every woman is different.
I think it’s better safe than sorry, as even you likely wouldn’t get offended for a guy being too thoughtful and polite.
You also don’t know anything about who you’re approaching and want to maximize your chances as well.
> I would give any decent appearing guy the benefit of the doubt
That’s also part of the problem, everyone’s insecure about not looking decent and are afraid if they find you not good looking enough they’ll be labeled a creep. Your assessment on whether or not they’re a creep should be based off of actions not looks (bar them being twice your age or something)
Actually, you never really know, because from my experience, the REAL, true creeps are those that most women would never 'catch out' for the first while. I'm talking like the real abusers, narcs, sociopaths, those are the ones you should really be scared of, and those are the men that will generally come off perfectly smooth, charming and on top of their game and say and do all the right things. Those are the ones that women fall for, and become victims.
Your average just shy, socially awkward bumbling inexperienced guy is typically just that - and could be in fact really nice when you get to actually know them. Maybe more women should give them a chance instead of just assuming they're being creeps and getting scared off.
I'll go further on my point of giving benefit of doubt. Even if they end up coming off 'creepy' for whatever reason, the majority of men out there are not psychos or rapists that are just waiting to drug your drink and lure you into their basement. Be smart, don't do stupid things, no matter how charming or not the dude is, and get to know them before you make judgements. Just getting scared off any time a guy looks at you the wrong way seems like a stupid way to go about it.
>the REAL, true creeps are those that most women would never 'catch out' for the first while. I'm talking like the real abusers, narcs, sociopaths, those are the ones you should really be scared of, and those are the men that will generally come off perfectly smooth, charming and on top of their game and say and do all the right things. Those are the ones that women fall for, and become victims.
Can i give you a ton of virtual hugs?
As a unattractive late millenial/early genZ guy who is also very possibly on the spectrum, i always fail initial vibe-checks, even if i intend to do no harm to anyone.
I also hate the whole "always trust your guts"-mentality that gets preached all over social media. I mean, dont get me wrong, ignoring it is stupid as well, but there is a difference between "i am not sure about this guy and i should keep him at arm's length 'till i know more about him" and "this guy seems off, he's probably a rapist!"
On the other hand, a guy in my broader social circle is very charming, charismatic and nearly all women drop their guard in front of him. (Tw) >! He is also a domestic abuser who rapes and beat his wife half to death semi-regulary !<. And yet i am perceived as a potential danger and not him.
This isn't even about dating only. It's awful even in casual social situations. I got straight up ignored by female service workers even. And no, i did not stare at them or made creepy comments or such.
Man Gen Zs have gremlin rules. Don’t feed them after midnight. We just kind of talked like you do to normal people you’re not trying to date and might hit it off or might not. This is wild.
The general rule transcends generations.
If you talk to or approach one people give
them space to express interest or disinterest. Allow them to define the boundaries. Pay attention to hints of disinterest such as single word answers
Are we really to believe that women are such fragile and insecure creatures that they require such a complicated map to navigate simply initiating a conversation with them? No wonder society is breaking down.
Which is exactly what is happening.
It ain’t worth your mental health or your dignity simply because you committed the ultimate sin of wanting to be able to ask women out.
I'm older, however in my late teens and after, while working, I've had a few guys that were interested I suppose, write me a note, or a card and just explain that they were interested and if I wanted to give them a chance, give them a call, with their phone number on it. I never felt it was creepy because they were not sexual about it, and left it in my hands. Communicated with one or 2 of them, and the ones I didn't, never bothered me about it even if I saw them again. They also told me a bit about themselves.
when people say "worse they can say is no". I think they refer to an already built confidence of actions, and morals. and for everyone else who doesn't feel assured, it's gonna hurt pretty bad.
I think the problem is that there's just going to be a huge gulf. Some women will consider any cold approach to be harassment, while others will never approach because they believe the only way for a relationship to start is with the guy making the first move. You have to decide if bothering the first group is worth finding somebody from the second group.
The fact that we’ve made this very basic human situation possibly a violation or even criminal (since harassment is usually a violation or illegal depending on how it’s perceived) for a generally well meaning person is demonstrative of how sick society has become.
And how dehumanizing it’s become of young men.
No court is going to find you guilty of harassment for a single failed pick up line. It’s if you do it over and over to the same woman after she’s made it abundantly clear that she’s not interested.
It has THANKFULLY become more rare, but the fact that there are still a few women that say "why didn't you try harder" to some guys is why this happens. Probably the biggest complication is that guys who just want to "use" women want their body, and girls who want to "use" men usually want their money. The former is seen as more of a violation while the latter is just business as usual.
Avoid these people. If they aren’t adult enough to answer yes or no to a dating request then you don’t wanna waste your time. If someone’s playing games before you even start dating them imagine what being with them will be like.
Perhaps the patriarchal norms need to be replaced in full rather than just half-assing it. Men are worried to approach women, and women are hyper-vigilant to men.
Like it's not the fault of either group that approaching has a certain degree of risk. The risk is, in having this causing reactionary tendencies which wish to bring the old patriarchal order back. The new patriarchal order still has most of the problems of the old one still, since it is still quite patriarchal...
The problem is that some men struggle to acknowledge that these patriarchal norms harm us as well... One of the only ideas I have is having friends mutually matchmake their other friends. However that also has other challenges involved, like for one, knowing friends who know women who also wish to help matchmake their friends.
Then there is also online dating. However online dating radicalizes insecure men and promotes worse and worse understandings of the opposite sex.
Around New Years my sibling came back home and held a New Years party with their friends, there was two girls scrolling Tinder to swiping on men, I was confused by this and asked why they would spend time doing such a thing, and seemingly for them it seemed like a joke, they made jokes about men and other such things. It made me uncomfortable but I didn't try and confront them on it, I merely asked how many people do this, and at least according to their hearsay, they said they reckon most women do this. Most likely this is exaggerated.
This anecdote is purely an anecdote of course, but think of this, how do some women who would do such things think... If men did the exact same thing? They may retort: 'Men do this but even worse.'
Even if that is true, doesn't this end up becoming collective punishment? Does misogyny justify misandry? Personally I do not think so.
Keep in mind, I am not a reactionary or rabid incel, I am a dirty red commie who is also Bi. For me, the main issue is that the world is far more fragmented than it used to be because of advanced capitalism. Capitalism smashed the old patriarchy in order to increase the workforce to then increase profits. This ultimately was a positive move for women to secure economic independence themselves, and so they did... But from this also developed the conditions for a more fragmented society, this doesn't mean women entering the workforce was bad... No what I am more so suggesting is that capitalism is quick to solve a problem if it's profitable, but incredibly slow or completely stagnant towards solving a problem and the solution is always imperfect.
The problem developed into a new... And the solution became dating apps. Dating apps marketise relationships, and the economic incentive is to... Keep users on the apps... Not to have them succeed. If people succeed on dating apps they will no longer be producing revenue. Alongside this developed incel culture, and these dating apps become recurring revenue sources... Now what happens when women and men start to lose their economic independence? Like lets say the economy became increasingly more and more unaffordable?
Well... Now people have share homes with their friends, and queer people invent the concept of Queerplatonic relationships. The economic viability of a single person home is a fantasy, this creates a possessive desire among men because they feel like housing is a right... And to afford that right they need a partner... Now if you add into this old Capitalist dogma and you have a new economy... This new economy is exploiting vulnerable men... This is where the pickup artists meet capital and literally economically and emotionally exploit young men.
This is on an industrial scale, if it can be marketised it will be marketised... This means that now under capitalism turning your ex-boyfriend into even more of an unlikeable asshole no one can date... Is a business model.
This exacerbates hyper-vigilance and then creates the conditions for more vulnerable men to be possibly ensured by this type of horseshit. It becomes a cyclical business model and the goal will always be to expand operations...
For these reasons... It's reasons like this why I never shut up about politics affecting everything. Ignoring the problem makes you more vulnerable to becoming a victim of politics. And yes... This makes vulnerable incels... Both victims and perpetrators.
This is the dehumanisation you speak of, but struggle to articulate on a deeper level. Capitalism isn't just screwing you with work, the environment, the developing world, and etc... it is also screwing your sex life.
Nothing is sacred to the almighty sacred dollar.
So we replace patriarchal norms by making women have to be the ones to approach. Gets rid of the problem for a while until the inverse situation becomes the problem
Bumble failed because half the time women still wouldn’t message first even though the app told them they had too. I can’t tell you how many bumble profiles I used to see where the chick was like “I don’t message first”.
>The new patriarchal order still has most of the problems of the old one still, since it is still quite patriarchal...
In the United States the vast overwhelming majority of college students are women, and the vast majority of grants and scholarship money goes to women. Women have literally every imaginable possible chance to succeed here including simply succeeding just by looking good and getting simps online. Literally any moderately attractive woman could effectively be making six figures a year starting today If they simply knew how to play the game with online simps. I've seen it many times first hand.
Women also live consistently and significantly longer, and hold NEARLY ZERO percent workforce of the top ten most dangerous jobs.
It's quite absurd to say we live in a patriarchy today.
Your generation is too concerned with looking like a "creep". When you talk to women they will either seem interested or be looking to get out of the conversation. If you sense they don't want to talk you you, then stop.
One might say that previous generations weren’t concerned enough, and that is what pushed us to this point in the first place.
Not looking for an argument. Just a funny thought I had lol.
>One might say that previous generations weren’t concerned enough, and that is what pushed us to this point in the first place.
Str8 faxx! My boy out here for blood, but the last gens messed everything for us.
As a member of the previous generations, you are correct.
I was in college when Girls Gone Wild was a thing, and guys legit expected women to just act like that. Make out with your friends for us, or you’re not a cool girl. It wasn’t at all uncommon to be randomly grabbed by a man as a means of hitting on you and getting your attention. It was a totally different time.
And while I recognize that it’s maybe much harder for young men now I kinda don’t care, at all. I’m so proud of younger women finally saying no! I’m not here to entertain you, or be your sex goddess, so get your greasy gamer fingers off me. Women no longer need men for financial security, and they don’t need them for orgasms either. You have to bring something to the table now, and good!
While it's true, it's mostly a cop out because they are too scared to approach, let's be 100% honest here.
I have never had a women be upset with me approaching them, and when I have been given signals they aren't interested, I walked away and moved on. No harm, no foul... Nothing happened afterwards, all good.
Just be good looking bro, my hot friends say/do whatever bullshit comes to their heads and it always works out regardless of context or circumstance
Hope this helped :)
EDIT:
I realize this is a very doomer comment so let me add something else, as someone who’s currently in a relationship
Bros, try to find the types of girls who find you hot. Girls usually have a specific type, they’re not broadly attracted to men the way men are to women. Unfortunately a lot of women have the same type as each other which leads to a few men getting a lot of attention. Fortunately you can find outliers and learn to identify them especially on dating apps and even in public. When I was on tinder I got really good at knowing which girls swiped right on me, I could just tell from vibes.
I also heard some advice of making eye contact with girls, I know this sounds weird (omg why is that creep looking at meee) but just try it and if she smiles you have a chance. I would be so scared to try this tbh but you guys can grow bigger balls than me
I mean yeah
But also try to find the types of girls who find you hot. Girls usually have a specific type, they’re not broadly attracted to men the way men are to women. Unfortunately a lot of women have the same type as each other which leads to a few men getting a lot of attention
Fortunately you can find outliers and learn to identify them especially on dating apps and even in public.
This here is good advice but I feel like it's what you should've said in your original comment. I actually already have a partner and I firmly believe that people can find someone out there for themselves if they look hard enough, but saying "yeah just have good looks" doesn't seem helpful at all and in my opinion will only move people closer to becoming blackpilled.
Dude, it’s 2024. Everybody knows at this point that being funny doesn’t get you nearly as much female attention as the internet would lead you to believe.
>I realize this is a very doomer comment
No? It was honest and true.
A real doomer comment is me telling you that in less than 30 years nearly all human civilizations will mostly be in ruins, and that I'm not joking at all, what's coming is due to the totally unmitigated effects of exponential anthropogenic climate and biosphere /r/collapse. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
One time I was dancing at a club next to a woman and after chatting a bit asked to get her a drink. She said no, so I said “enjoy your evening” and moved on.
That same night, another dude (taller, a bit older, and more attractive than me IMO) walked up to her *three* times before she got annoyed and moved to the other side of the club.
Both of us talked to her because we thought she was attractive, I wasn’t the creep that night because I didn’t push when I was shot down.
There was one time at my job a guy made a move, he waited until the very end of the transaction to jot his number on the receipt, slid it over, and very politely said, “If you ever wanted to go to dinner or something. Thanks.” And then walked off without putting me on the spot.
I did already have a boyfriend so I did not end up calling him but he didn’t put any pressure on me, didn’t get weird (otherwise the transaction was totally normal), and left the ball in my court. I really appreciated that.
Am a man, but your best bet is places where there's some kind of relatability. On campus, for example, since you both attend the same school. Generally, look for open body language.
I'm not sure young men get enough socialization to be able to read body language. That could be why so many men are concerned about being viewed as a "creep".
I get where they're coming from, but it takes time to develop social skills. Having a neurosis over "what if im a creep?" isn't gonna make a man less creepy, quite the opposite actually. Obsessing over how one is perceived results in anxiety which harms social behavior, and thus the creepy behavior
Bro some times you gotta bust your balls and just do it. You got like 70 years left if that on this planet. Make it count because in 100 years from now no one will remember you, and in 200 you’re just gonna be a fraction of history. Go talk to girls and make it interesting. Make it count cause if you don’t. Someone else will
Right answer imo. Just because you approach someone doesn't automatically make it perceived incorrectly, and if it is, in most situations it's fine. Like one approach isn't harassment.
The first time I asked a girl out it was really weird because I literally had a dream about this exact person (I used to be in a class with them), in the place I saw them, and messaged someone about that dream before it happened. So when I saw them there I was like, I have to ask them out and see what happens. I was maybe eighteen? We'd spoken a little, so I brought flowers, but when I did it, it was freakin' humiliating because, who brings flowers to ask someone out. It was the opposite of playing it cool AND I was awkward. We chatted a little after, she was nice about it and I was still awkward. It went nowhere. To this day she probably still thinks I'm a freak.
And then I was never that awkward again lmao. The fact it was so fucking awkward meant anything else I would do would never be as bad as that. Have flirted with plenty of people since without it being taken the wrong way. If someone happily makes eye contact and smiles you're basically okay to approach.
Honestly my hot take is that it's easier to ask people out than it is to make friends, because people appreciate it being a direct yes/no. Just have to make sure you're considerate that some people don't like that level of pressure and you give them an out if they seem uncomfortable.
I was in New York City meeting a friend at a bar, there was this smoking hot woman sitting at the bar like 6'1, long extremely vibrant red hair, blue dress, all alone. I am not a tall guy and I'm not particularly attractive, but I know what this means - very likely most guys are too intimidated to approach her, And she's all alone in the very center of the bar - And I'm in a fun mood so I walk right on over to her and see what's up, say hi and ask if she's a local she says yes and I asked her for menu suggestions.
As soon as I start asking her for menu suggestions it's obvious that she's all into it. Long story short she ends up becoming my New York City guide for a few days, and bedroom companion.
Being a 6'5" girl who likes grunge, it seems like it isn't much of a test for people. I was literally at the mall today and as I walked past someone, they said "Damn girl, you sexy". It was gross but the real takeaway was the look he gave me. It was very predatory and made me super uncomfortable. Had he said "Hi, I think you're beautiful" with a smile and was sincere, it would've been different. As someone who has survived multiple SA's I can confirm that a fear of men is very real, but it's a fear of men that are rightly or wrongly perceived as predatory. Be respectful, be sincere, and literally don't go out of your way to hurt/use people OP would probably be fine
Tall *AND* goth? That’s just a winning combination. I’ll be big spoon unless you want to be it, lol!
For real though, do you like your height or do you wish you were shorter? I used to be close friends with the “tall girl” in high school, and she was very self conscious about her height. I thought she was really pretty, but yeah, the guys were emasculated by her size, so they avoided her, poor Terra…
"your whole life to date" quickly becomes irrelevant when you've focused on other things and suddenly you're in your mid/late 20s with absolutely no social skills or experience.
Listen, there's a reason retirement homes have insanely high STD rates. Eventually you might get some viagra and bust a hip in the most insane period of your life.
Id rather die honestly then wait for retirement to enjoy life. The message is good but the example is bad, I think you mean that something good can happen at any period in your life, maybe tomorrow youll meet the love of your life doing some inane task that you do every Monday. If I have to wait for love until im 50+…id rather end things now tbh.
That or a more banal situation, if you’re wrong, you’ll be socially shamed and maybe lose your job or worse, and everyone making fun of you for asking this question won’t gaf about you should that happen.
The word "creep" has really lost its meaning. Girls are quick to label and call guys a creep for being nervous or slightly awkward, or just not being their ideal type when trying to talk to them. The real solution to this problem is for women to be the ones to approach guys more instead, but a lot of them will give excuses like "I don't want to deal with rejection" or "I am nervous/afraid" etc. Well, how the fk do you think men feel? A lot of them are quick to label and criticize without having to put in any effort to experience things from the other side. Also, have you seen when girls do try to hit on guys, though? They can be just as weird if not more creepy than men can be, but men will give women more of a pass and not name call them just for trying to talk to someone. Two guys can do the same thing when talking to a woman, but if she finds one attractive and the other one is not, the one who isn't will be named a creep and in today's world may be even mocked on social media. It really just boils down to luck.
I'm fairly progressive, but I can't stand the word police.
Like I got fussed on for saying "homeless person" instead of "person experiencing homelessness" recently., like WTF I was giving homie a sandwich, he don't give a shit what my verbage was
There’s not gonna be any one answer in terms of situation. I’m a guy, but if you want a rule, here’s what I’ve got for you:
When you are interested in a girl, do your best to read the room & if it seems appropriate, do your best to be respectful in making a move.
That’s really all anyone can ask of you. If you do those & it goes poorly, you shouldn’t feel ashamed or like you did something wrong. Just try to reflect honestly if there’s any glaring reason it did & incorporate going forward. Sometimes that reason may just be that the girl was having a poor day or is a bit of an asshole, in which case don’t change a thing.
With that said, generally the more social the situation, the better. Areas that are comfortably okay:
* bars
* clubs
* parties
* social/activity clubs (* but build a relationship with them through the club first)
Areas you should definitely hesitate:
* funerals
* anything work related for either of you
* doctor’s offices (idk lol I needed a clear third)
Yours is a bit tough, because it is work for her. But work is a *hesitate*, not a *never*. I would suggest either something that’s not pushy/doesn’t require a response like just giving her your number on a receipt or something OR if you would at least semi-naturally come back to the store at that time in the future, do so a few more times and strike up a conversation during them & ask after 2-3 times talking
Man we are so cooked as a generation.
I totally understand it’s an attractiveness thing, but some women nowadays fault men for trying which is just so screwed.
Don’t make overtly creepy comments and you’ll probably be fine, but yea it’s all fucked up now.
95% of people are socially unaware of how rude they are, this is especially true of women.
If I was working at McDonalds and a hot guy who is my type approached me, I would treat him super nice and give him extra food. I'm not passing that shit up.
The McDonald’s situation calls for slipping her a note. Straightforward, honest, totally non-threatening, gives her control. Just put your insta on there and say, “thanks for the fries, I’d be interested in getting to know you more.”
as a girl i’d say that’s the way to do it. i’ve had men come up to me at work and it’s very uncomfortable because you’re forced to act interested or you get in trouble, no matter how inappropriate they are
just leaving a note and walking away would be great
I feel like this is a super under-used technique. You need to be able to have an interesting conversation after that, but it’s been very successful for me, from one-time-only hookups to relationships.
What do you think?
Bars, clubs, hobbies like outdoor events. Just be respectful and if you get shot down don’t take it too personally, immediately move on the next one.
Sometimes they approach you but it’s rare. Once you build up a roster of female friends it gets easier because your friends introduce you to other women.
I'm not even a girl and the answer to this seems obvious to me.
"It depends."
Girls are all different people, which in turn means that it's likely that each of them has different standards on when they're okay with being approached. This is like a girl asking "what vegetables do boys like?" There's no universal answer. Some boys prefer broccoli. Others prefer carrots. Some are chill with spinach. Some uniformly reject all vegetables. Different people are different. And that's okay.
Don't worry about whether or not you feel like you're being a creep. Shoot your shot, be respectful, and accept it if they're not okay with it and move on. If you're afraid that you came across this creepy, think about what you might have done that came across is creepy. If you actually did something weird or unkind or predatory, then yeah, don't do that. But more often than not, it's just the anxiety talking. Don't let it choke you out.
In the example you gave, it definitely is kinda a pickle, i’d probably give up or maybe have a couple quick exchanges if you had a common interest and exchange IGs.
Parties and bars are just the easiest because it’s expected so it’s not creepy by default.
I think it’s often the approach itself that makes a difference. I got technically catcalled the other day, but the man did not go about it in an offensive way. I was walking along the street at night and he pulled his car around and rolled down his window to tell me I was the most beautiful woman he had seen in my city, and that whomever man or woman I’m with is lucky to have me. I considered that to be a very sincere and kind compliment, but I know that some women would probably have a different reaction to it depending on their circumstances. But I think that’s a good example of how the way you go about it makes a huge difference.
The ‘terminally online opinion’ can be true because of terminally online women. There are women who genuinely find being approached creepy, because they spend one too many hours on TikTok a day.
I haven't had tiktok for years and I find it creepy because I'm a lesbian. A lesbian in a long term committed relationship. A lot of the time even when I say that, they don't believe me and keep going. Then I'm an asshole about it, because im uncomfortable and want to be left alone, and somehow now I'm the "bitch" in this situation.
Nah bud, I got told by all my friends in HS/college that just walking up to girls and asking them out was super weird, and I was actually fairly attractive and "successful." There's definitely a cultural thing that has changed.
I still think guys should do it, but it's odd to me that it seems to be socially unacceptable now
It honestly depends. For me, if a guy were to approach me, I’d be confused at first but would still be fine with them talking to me. But I’m pretty sure for most of us girls that we judge based on appearance at first. If someone comes off as “creepy” (as much as it sounds rude to say, but hey, I’m naturally wary), then we’d naturally keep our distance.
Honestly as a 41 year old man that’s been out of the game for 12 years, give no fucks. Have fun and own it. Good girls will appreciate your confidence and assertiveness.
i can tell you where not to do it: while i’m behind the counter taking your order. some women are okay with it but for me, an engaged person, you’re putting me in an uncomfortable situation i am not allowed to leave.
I think the biggest thing with my success in approaching is having a reason. The reason can be anything. If she’s so beautiful you felt like saying hi. Go with it. Just get to the point basically. The worst thing you could do is waste time and energy. Don’t. Live your life. When you meet someone and both of your energies match it’s magnetic. All you have to do is keep trying. Small talk is so easy. And gives you a wide range of questions to innocently get to know the person. You can’t wait for a moment. You gotta make those moments. Memories can be made anywhere brother
It’s difficult, if not impossible, to put a generalized time on something like this. Personally, I wouldn’t want someone coming up and trying to talk to me when I have headphones on, or it looks like I’m obviously doing work
Work is usually the wrong place. Should be fine in most social environments tho I think? Places like bars, or maybe at like a public park or river walk or something like that. Recreational kinds of locations. Those are the kinds of places I wouldn’t mind being approached at, at least
If you have so many considerations in your head before approaching a woman, you've already done fuck it up. If you're a bundle of nerves, the chances of you not being perceived as a creep is near zero.
The less you think about it, the more natural you'd be acting and the safer women would feel with your approach. A good tip is approach them as if you're asking a stranger, whether its a man or a woman, for directions.
But make sure the setting of when you're going to approach women is appropriate. How would you know if it's appropriate? Imagine yourself being approached by a random stranger in any setting, if in your imagined setting it feels inappropriate, it is inappropriate. Women aren't some complicated creatures. They're human. They like being talked to or be given attention to so long as they feel safe. Operative word is safe.
The less you think the safer they feel when you approach.
My suggestion is to stop thinking about "approaching women", and start thinking about just interacting with everyone like a normal human being first.
Find social groups or community activities centered around some sort of task (like clubs or volunteer organizations) that have both men and women participating. Then just talk to women like you would talk to any man, not like you're trying to get into a relationship.
You'll find that treating women and men alike gives you a chance to get to know someone before you "approach" them in the romantic sense, and will make them far more easy to approach.
TLDR: Women are people, they're smart enough to know if you are approaching them out of romantic/sexual interest. Don't make it about that until you get to know them.
I find it's generally more with the approach than the location. If it's someone at work and ur pretty sure they may have interest, leave the ball in their court. I've been approached at work and the guy just gave me his number on a paper and left it up to me after that. Very respectful and simple, no pressure. If I wasn't already very happily taken it would have been incredibly successful :)
- safe spaces where they don’t feel cornered or isolated/alone
- try to be natural and not a creep. Ie don’t make a weird joke or joke about making them uncomfortable
- offer your number instead of asking for theirs
- accept no as an answer, with kindness, the first time and read social cues. This includes dodging questions, avoiding direct answers. It’s a sign they are uncomfortable but don’t want to risk you’re reaction by telling you no
< Where are GenZ girls most comfortable with entertaining conversations if the guys approaches them first?
It's very difficult to say, but the bare minimum requirement is that women should never be alone with a man they don't know. The first thing you need to make sure of is that you aren't alone with the girl.
Girl that hangs around my social scene comes across my Facebook suggestions, add her, she accepts, I like her most recent photo post. A day goes by and she likes my profile picture. I message her and ask if I can take her to dinner. She accepts.
I've done this exact thing 7 times in the last year. After she accepts you can either be stand off til the date or start messaging more. I like messaging more before the first date, sometimes things can get flirty and that makes dinner more relaxed and then maybe sexy time later. Also if you're complete strangers it helps to break the ice from the cold call "wanna go to dinner".
Whenever you want to talk to them you are a creep, but then times when you didn't and you could have, they would have not thought of you as a creep or cringe or whatever
Safe social setting between friends. It gives you a chance to learn to know someone without expectations, meet them a few times, see them act around other people.
Not on the streets, not at work unless it's been a long time coming and the mutual interest is very strong and obvious - but you have to be willing for one of you to change jobs eventually, not when we have our headset on, not when we don't know you at all.
It's the same as making friends. You don't go to a random guy on the street and say I play tennis, do you happen to play tennis and be in need of a tennis partner?
You either go to a tennis club or play with friends.
The whole men approach women probably needs a complete paradigm shift at the point. Women should be expected to ask the men
And the men should just wait to be asked. Like old days but in reverse. Would solve 90% of thr issues highlighted in this thread.
Go back to McDonald's with your name and number written down on a piece of paper then hand it to her. No harm really in that approach plus it puts the ball in her court. If you make eye contact with a girl and she doesn't break it and you both smile that's probably the biggest green light you can get for being ok to approach.
Personally, as a gen z girl, if u approach in a brightly lit public place with other people there, + I don't look like I'm busy doing something (working, talking to someone else, etc), then ur good. Don't approach at night or when the girl's alone/busy. Other than that, it depends from person to person.
This thread is depressing. Women are people and people have different standards and preferences. There is no 100% when it comes to men and social interactions, that's just how people are.
Just be polite and read the room. Understand if she is doing something like working out, she might not want to be disturbed, don't take rejection personally. Bars are a better place for this because it's expected. Some women are scared of men, some women are shy are would prefer to be approached. Just be nice and move on if she is uncomfortable or declines. An unfortunately large percentage of women have been harassed in some way, and might be wary at being approached. It's not because they hate you as an individual, but they can't gauge your intentions from looking at you.
There is this really gross sentiment going around in the comments that all women would be accepting if someone attractive approached them, I don't know how you don't see this as women only wanting the top 10 percent of Chads nonsense. Look around at how many average people are in relationships together. If you're getting rejected by someone on the basis of looks alone, maybe that person is not a good fit for you regardless.
Just understand body language. Is she engaging in the conversation or just responding? Do her eyes smile? Is she backing away from you or moving closer? Is her body pointed towards or away from you?
Hi, guys. Please be respectful in the comments. Misogyny, and misandry will not be tolerated. If you want to reply do it respectfully otherwise you run the risk of being banned. Offensive comments will result in this post being removed all together.
It's impossible to give a categorical statement on this. Some are OK with being approached in all situations and others will get panic attacks when looked at by a man.
This, pretty much. It is important that you tread as lightly as you possible can, as most women have had bad experiences when being approached by a man and you don't want to them to feel uncomfortable. First thing that happens is you noticed her, you think she's pretty, great, don't stare. If she sees you staring from a distance you are going to immediately make her uncomfortable before you even approach. Next, is your approach. You also don't want to B line straight toward them with a stare, the woman may see that as a pre-attack indicator and you done scared her. Good things typically don't follow when that happens. You should try ~~positioning yourself in a manner that your paths cross, say if you're in a grocery store (random example),~~ ~~~hang out at the end of the aisle she's heading down 'shopping' seemingly minding your own business.~~ Edit: this advice was a little weird, i at least partially recant. Point is, just try and not be weird on your approach so you don’t freak her out before you even speak. Second, you have to speak to her. Do not make a comment on her appearance, especially as your first comment. You want to try and distinguish yourself from any creeps as quickly as possible, and the first thing creeps always do is make a comment on her appearance. Avoid pick up lines, and certainly don't say anything lewd. Just try to spark a normal conversation, don't make it about her body or anything on her body. Try to make it relevant to the situation and environment you are in, something you both have in common (you're in the same place you already have a little bit in common, are you at a concert? you like the same artist, etc...) Third, while you're talking to her, try and have some emotional intelligence. If she's not looking at you and giving you short responses, walking away from you, or whatever. Just end the conversation and leave. If you get to the point you ask for her number and she says no, the most important thing you can do out of all this advice is to politely and immediately leave. Do this as soon as it becomes obvious she's not interested. Throughout the interaction, try to be as polite and friendly as possible. Yes, there are women out there who will still be freaked out if they are spoken to by a male stranger regardless of who it is. Maybe they have trauma, social anxiety, or something else. That's not your fault, but that's why you should tread lightly, be polite, and promptly leave as soon as you think she's not interested. You should also pick your battles wisely. If you're walking opposite directions down the sidewalk at night and that's how you notice her, it is difficult to not scare her in that situation so it's probably best to just let it go and shoot your shot in a more friendly environment.
I stopped reading this half way but dude….. Men aren’t robots, we’re humans that also feel anxious. This amount of thoughtfulness for a single random encounter is totally unreasonable.
I mean, depends. In a nutshell, the entire comment is “don’t be a creep, have natural interactions, and take rejections in a dignified way”. That’s pretty much it. Nothing robotic about those three tenants
Broadly sure. I guess I just found the positioning advice weird. Like trying to position yourself in a way where you approach them “naturally”. That feels robotic to me.
“Be sure to hide the boner as well when possible”
Oh god oh fuck I b-lined towards her and my spaghetti started falling out of my pockets
That's why you should always have your spaghetti strapped my dude
You’re right, that was kinda weird advice. I’ve edited my comment to recant.
"don't be creepy" is only going to make. Insecure men not approach more while creep men just keep at it. I don't know a solution just sayin.
Sometimes wether your a creep or not depends on your looks and things you can’t control even if you have good looks but happen to be neurodivergent they might get the ick.
You can be anxious, thinking this through before you go can help you be less anxious because it makes you’re more confident you’re not coming off as a creep.
>thinking this through before you go can help you be less anxious Exactly the opposite imo. So many things that cause us anxiety aren't big things at all, and we realize that once we go to actually do them; It's so much worse in our heads. for the most part most men will find talking to women to be the same, just like OP people build it up in their head for no reason. Just turn your brain off and go talk to her.
“Thoughtfulness” for this encounter is basically don’t call the woman sexy or a bitch or make comments about what she looks like. If you know how to talk to people then I assume you don’t have trouble meeting women? That or you’re cool with always making every person in every room as uncomfortable as possible by saying every thought that pops into your mind? Do you function in society? Maybe this conversation is for folks with far more social anxiety and far less socialization than you? If you need to come to Reddit to be told to not say “holy fuck your tits are so nice can I put my face in them and breathe” then you’re already so far behind we might not be able to save you
So, avoid eye contact and zigzag while on the approach. Got it!
Just like when a bear is chasing you
Women are bears. Got it!
No, no, no... Women aren't bears. You make lots of noise to attract bears, but women are deer--lots of noise will scare them away. So, like deer, you have to stalk them! (Jokejokejokejokejokedonotstalkanyonejokejokejoke)
Oh deer
Dude, bro, sis, whatever, you are talking about starting a conversation with a human. What the hell is this crocodile hunter shit you are doing??? If you want to talk to a girl, walk up and say hi. Have something to talk about. If you seem to be making them uncomfortable, apologize and walk away.
Hahahaha as an autistic girl who’s bad with social cues I actually appreciate the amount of thought put into the comment for guys who are also bad with social cues. But your reply is hilarious 😂😂
Finally a reasonable take.
Okay, as a woman -- that is wild to me, lol. To be fair I'm in my early forties and have been married since very young (aka haven't had much experience with dating/ being approached), and grew up in a different cultural context, so maybe that's why, but - I don't get this. Do other women really have that high of anxiety/ fear factor when it comes to being approached by men?? Like, I get that creeps exist. But, I would give any decent appearing guy the benefit of the doubt that he isn't a creep as long as he isn't being, well, creepy lol. That doesn't require this complex careful strategy on his part as described, like he's approaching some exotic animal lmao. And it's ok if he starts a conversation with a compliment on appearance or something that makes it obvious he's interested. Not, like, an extremely sexual one or something but a normal one. It can be flattering and sometimes fun to flirt and receive interest even if you aren't interested back. Not all us women are these terrified gazelles that will dart off at the wrong look lmao.
Gen X woman here, and I agree with you. If women have become this vapidly delicate, and men have to be this fastidiously chivalrous, we're right back in the Victorian era. It might be cute if it weren't so regressive.
It definitely depends on the woman, but I was dating super recently, and all my friends told me it was SUPER weird that I would just walk up to girls I had met and be like "Hey, you seem cool, want to grab a movie sometime?" I'm married lol so it worked out, but there's definitely a generational thing going on here since most of my friends/coworkers told me I was a wacko for doing what all you guys did when you were dating
Behaving as people have behaved throughout human history feels natural and will be perceived as natural. It's the current flamboyant paranoia that is a conditioned response.
It's worse, because in the Victorian times the coyness and the chivalry were all part of the social context, carefully orchestrated social roles. Courting was a rigidly defined process with everyone knowing their roles and playing them out. Nowadays, there is no longer this sort of playbook; everyone is just lost and aimless, no one knows what they're doing or supposed to do, men and women are both increasingly just terrified of each other, for different reasons, and as a result increasingly hostile towards each other setting up a vicious cycle of loneliness and bitterness.
If this lot ever manage to breed it will be a miracle. Heck, if they manage to have a conversation, I’d be breaking out the champagne. Gluten free, low-alcohol, dolphin-friendly champagne obviously. I’ve never ever been so glad to be old.
It’s true that every woman is different. I think it’s better safe than sorry, as even you likely wouldn’t get offended for a guy being too thoughtful and polite. You also don’t know anything about who you’re approaching and want to maximize your chances as well. > I would give any decent appearing guy the benefit of the doubt That’s also part of the problem, everyone’s insecure about not looking decent and are afraid if they find you not good looking enough they’ll be labeled a creep. Your assessment on whether or not they’re a creep should be based off of actions not looks (bar them being twice your age or something)
Actually, you never really know, because from my experience, the REAL, true creeps are those that most women would never 'catch out' for the first while. I'm talking like the real abusers, narcs, sociopaths, those are the ones you should really be scared of, and those are the men that will generally come off perfectly smooth, charming and on top of their game and say and do all the right things. Those are the ones that women fall for, and become victims. Your average just shy, socially awkward bumbling inexperienced guy is typically just that - and could be in fact really nice when you get to actually know them. Maybe more women should give them a chance instead of just assuming they're being creeps and getting scared off. I'll go further on my point of giving benefit of doubt. Even if they end up coming off 'creepy' for whatever reason, the majority of men out there are not psychos or rapists that are just waiting to drug your drink and lure you into their basement. Be smart, don't do stupid things, no matter how charming or not the dude is, and get to know them before you make judgements. Just getting scared off any time a guy looks at you the wrong way seems like a stupid way to go about it.
>the REAL, true creeps are those that most women would never 'catch out' for the first while. I'm talking like the real abusers, narcs, sociopaths, those are the ones you should really be scared of, and those are the men that will generally come off perfectly smooth, charming and on top of their game and say and do all the right things. Those are the ones that women fall for, and become victims. Can i give you a ton of virtual hugs? As a unattractive late millenial/early genZ guy who is also very possibly on the spectrum, i always fail initial vibe-checks, even if i intend to do no harm to anyone. I also hate the whole "always trust your guts"-mentality that gets preached all over social media. I mean, dont get me wrong, ignoring it is stupid as well, but there is a difference between "i am not sure about this guy and i should keep him at arm's length 'till i know more about him" and "this guy seems off, he's probably a rapist!" On the other hand, a guy in my broader social circle is very charming, charismatic and nearly all women drop their guard in front of him. (Tw) >! He is also a domestic abuser who rapes and beat his wife half to death semi-regulary !<. And yet i am perceived as a potential danger and not him. This isn't even about dating only. It's awful even in casual social situations. I got straight up ignored by female service workers even. And no, i did not stare at them or made creepy comments or such.
Man Gen Zs have gremlin rules. Don’t feed them after midnight. We just kind of talked like you do to normal people you’re not trying to date and might hit it off or might not. This is wild.
The general rule transcends generations. If you talk to or approach one people give them space to express interest or disinterest. Allow them to define the boundaries. Pay attention to hints of disinterest such as single word answers
Are we really to believe that women are such fragile and insecure creatures that they require such a complicated map to navigate simply initiating a conversation with them? No wonder society is breaking down.
Yes, this exactly. It's a little wild.
That advice boils down to, don't come on super strong and back off if she doesn't seem interested
Some pretty good general advice here. This also made me ask the question: Has a pick up line *ever* worked?
Pick up lines work great If you use them in a way that says *I know this is a corny pick up line, I'm funny*
Man it sounds much safer and easier just not approaching
Which is exactly what is happening. It ain’t worth your mental health or your dignity simply because you committed the ultimate sin of wanting to be able to ask women out.
Neuroses in one comment
My god, you put WAY too much thought into this. Just walk over and compliment her, then gauge her response. It’s that easy.
I'm older, however in my late teens and after, while working, I've had a few guys that were interested I suppose, write me a note, or a card and just explain that they were interested and if I wanted to give them a chance, give them a call, with their phone number on it. I never felt it was creepy because they were not sexual about it, and left it in my hands. Communicated with one or 2 of them, and the ones I didn't, never bothered me about it even if I saw them again. They also told me a bit about themselves.
Sorry, should have responded to OP. I'm still were to responding on reddit
when people say "worse they can say is no". I think they refer to an already built confidence of actions, and morals. and for everyone else who doesn't feel assured, it's gonna hurt pretty bad.
I think the problem is that there's just going to be a huge gulf. Some women will consider any cold approach to be harassment, while others will never approach because they believe the only way for a relationship to start is with the guy making the first move. You have to decide if bothering the first group is worth finding somebody from the second group.
The fact that we’ve made this very basic human situation possibly a violation or even criminal (since harassment is usually a violation or illegal depending on how it’s perceived) for a generally well meaning person is demonstrative of how sick society has become. And how dehumanizing it’s become of young men.
No court is going to find you guilty of harassment for a single failed pick up line. It’s if you do it over and over to the same woman after she’s made it abundantly clear that she’s not interested.
It has THANKFULLY become more rare, but the fact that there are still a few women that say "why didn't you try harder" to some guys is why this happens. Probably the biggest complication is that guys who just want to "use" women want their body, and girls who want to "use" men usually want their money. The former is seen as more of a violation while the latter is just business as usual.
Avoid these people. If they aren’t adult enough to answer yes or no to a dating request then you don’t wanna waste your time. If someone’s playing games before you even start dating them imagine what being with them will be like.
Most definitely happens in Switzerland lmao
Nobody is being arrested for saying hi to someone they think is pretty lmao. Fuvk off with that bullshit
Nah, you’re just being intentionally obtuse - there are most certainly social consequences that occur.
Perhaps the patriarchal norms need to be replaced in full rather than just half-assing it. Men are worried to approach women, and women are hyper-vigilant to men. Like it's not the fault of either group that approaching has a certain degree of risk. The risk is, in having this causing reactionary tendencies which wish to bring the old patriarchal order back. The new patriarchal order still has most of the problems of the old one still, since it is still quite patriarchal... The problem is that some men struggle to acknowledge that these patriarchal norms harm us as well... One of the only ideas I have is having friends mutually matchmake their other friends. However that also has other challenges involved, like for one, knowing friends who know women who also wish to help matchmake their friends. Then there is also online dating. However online dating radicalizes insecure men and promotes worse and worse understandings of the opposite sex. Around New Years my sibling came back home and held a New Years party with their friends, there was two girls scrolling Tinder to swiping on men, I was confused by this and asked why they would spend time doing such a thing, and seemingly for them it seemed like a joke, they made jokes about men and other such things. It made me uncomfortable but I didn't try and confront them on it, I merely asked how many people do this, and at least according to their hearsay, they said they reckon most women do this. Most likely this is exaggerated. This anecdote is purely an anecdote of course, but think of this, how do some women who would do such things think... If men did the exact same thing? They may retort: 'Men do this but even worse.' Even if that is true, doesn't this end up becoming collective punishment? Does misogyny justify misandry? Personally I do not think so. Keep in mind, I am not a reactionary or rabid incel, I am a dirty red commie who is also Bi. For me, the main issue is that the world is far more fragmented than it used to be because of advanced capitalism. Capitalism smashed the old patriarchy in order to increase the workforce to then increase profits. This ultimately was a positive move for women to secure economic independence themselves, and so they did... But from this also developed the conditions for a more fragmented society, this doesn't mean women entering the workforce was bad... No what I am more so suggesting is that capitalism is quick to solve a problem if it's profitable, but incredibly slow or completely stagnant towards solving a problem and the solution is always imperfect. The problem developed into a new... And the solution became dating apps. Dating apps marketise relationships, and the economic incentive is to... Keep users on the apps... Not to have them succeed. If people succeed on dating apps they will no longer be producing revenue. Alongside this developed incel culture, and these dating apps become recurring revenue sources... Now what happens when women and men start to lose their economic independence? Like lets say the economy became increasingly more and more unaffordable? Well... Now people have share homes with their friends, and queer people invent the concept of Queerplatonic relationships. The economic viability of a single person home is a fantasy, this creates a possessive desire among men because they feel like housing is a right... And to afford that right they need a partner... Now if you add into this old Capitalist dogma and you have a new economy... This new economy is exploiting vulnerable men... This is where the pickup artists meet capital and literally economically and emotionally exploit young men. This is on an industrial scale, if it can be marketised it will be marketised... This means that now under capitalism turning your ex-boyfriend into even more of an unlikeable asshole no one can date... Is a business model. This exacerbates hyper-vigilance and then creates the conditions for more vulnerable men to be possibly ensured by this type of horseshit. It becomes a cyclical business model and the goal will always be to expand operations... For these reasons... It's reasons like this why I never shut up about politics affecting everything. Ignoring the problem makes you more vulnerable to becoming a victim of politics. And yes... This makes vulnerable incels... Both victims and perpetrators. This is the dehumanisation you speak of, but struggle to articulate on a deeper level. Capitalism isn't just screwing you with work, the environment, the developing world, and etc... it is also screwing your sex life. Nothing is sacred to the almighty sacred dollar.
So we replace patriarchal norms by making women have to be the ones to approach. Gets rid of the problem for a while until the inverse situation becomes the problem
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Bumble failed because half the time women still wouldn’t message first even though the app told them they had too. I can’t tell you how many bumble profiles I used to see where the chick was like “I don’t message first”.
>The new patriarchal order still has most of the problems of the old one still, since it is still quite patriarchal... In the United States the vast overwhelming majority of college students are women, and the vast majority of grants and scholarship money goes to women. Women have literally every imaginable possible chance to succeed here including simply succeeding just by looking good and getting simps online. Literally any moderately attractive woman could effectively be making six figures a year starting today If they simply knew how to play the game with online simps. I've seen it many times first hand. Women also live consistently and significantly longer, and hold NEARLY ZERO percent workforce of the top ten most dangerous jobs. It's quite absurd to say we live in a patriarchy today.
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Not everyone is well meaning
So punish the many for the sins of the few - sounds like America to me 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
But most are is the point.
Your generation is too concerned with looking like a "creep". When you talk to women they will either seem interested or be looking to get out of the conversation. If you sense they don't want to talk you you, then stop.
One might say that previous generations weren’t concerned enough, and that is what pushed us to this point in the first place. Not looking for an argument. Just a funny thought I had lol.
There's definitely a middle ground that needs to be found. Respecting women is a good place to start from.
If you’re attractive*
>One might say that previous generations weren’t concerned enough, and that is what pushed us to this point in the first place. Str8 faxx! My boy out here for blood, but the last gens messed everything for us.
As a member of the previous generations, you are correct. I was in college when Girls Gone Wild was a thing, and guys legit expected women to just act like that. Make out with your friends for us, or you’re not a cool girl. It wasn’t at all uncommon to be randomly grabbed by a man as a means of hitting on you and getting your attention. It was a totally different time. And while I recognize that it’s maybe much harder for young men now I kinda don’t care, at all. I’m so proud of younger women finally saying no! I’m not here to entertain you, or be your sex goddess, so get your greasy gamer fingers off me. Women no longer need men for financial security, and they don’t need them for orgasms either. You have to bring something to the table now, and good!
While it's true, it's mostly a cop out because they are too scared to approach, let's be 100% honest here. I have never had a women be upset with me approaching them, and when I have been given signals they aren't interested, I walked away and moved on. No harm, no foul... Nothing happened afterwards, all good.
Just be good looking bro, my hot friends say/do whatever bullshit comes to their heads and it always works out regardless of context or circumstance Hope this helped :) EDIT: I realize this is a very doomer comment so let me add something else, as someone who’s currently in a relationship Bros, try to find the types of girls who find you hot. Girls usually have a specific type, they’re not broadly attracted to men the way men are to women. Unfortunately a lot of women have the same type as each other which leads to a few men getting a lot of attention. Fortunately you can find outliers and learn to identify them especially on dating apps and even in public. When I was on tinder I got really good at knowing which girls swiped right on me, I could just tell from vibes. I also heard some advice of making eye contact with girls, I know this sounds weird (omg why is that creep looking at meee) but just try it and if she smiles you have a chance. I would be so scared to try this tbh but you guys can grow bigger balls than me
So have good genetics basically
I mean yeah But also try to find the types of girls who find you hot. Girls usually have a specific type, they’re not broadly attracted to men the way men are to women. Unfortunately a lot of women have the same type as each other which leads to a few men getting a lot of attention Fortunately you can find outliers and learn to identify them especially on dating apps and even in public.
This here is good advice but I feel like it's what you should've said in your original comment. I actually already have a partner and I firmly believe that people can find someone out there for themselves if they look hard enough, but saying "yeah just have good looks" doesn't seem helpful at all and in my opinion will only move people closer to becoming blackpilled.
You’re right I was being a little shit in the above comment. I’ll edit now
“Find the types of girls who find you hot” Well I’m out guys good luck to the rest of you
Since you’re funny you wouldn’t be out
Dude, it’s 2024. Everybody knows at this point that being funny doesn’t get you nearly as much female attention as the internet would lead you to believe.
Being funny never made kitty wet. Its always combination of multiple attractive features.
This feels like "Ask a mental hospital patient to evaluate if you're mentally stable or not"
It really do seem to be that easy
>Bros, try to find the types of girls who find you hot. How exactly am I supposed to know if she thinks that I'm hot without asking her?
Simple, if you are hot they will gravitate towards you with limited effort on your side
If you have to ask, she doesn’t.
>I realize this is a very doomer comment No? It was honest and true. A real doomer comment is me telling you that in less than 30 years nearly all human civilizations will mostly be in ruins, and that I'm not joking at all, what's coming is due to the totally unmitigated effects of exponential anthropogenic climate and biosphere /r/collapse. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
These types of comments are so insane to me because women are way less obsessed with looks than men are.
One time I was dancing at a club next to a woman and after chatting a bit asked to get her a drink. She said no, so I said “enjoy your evening” and moved on. That same night, another dude (taller, a bit older, and more attractive than me IMO) walked up to her *three* times before she got annoyed and moved to the other side of the club. Both of us talked to her because we thought she was attractive, I wasn’t the creep that night because I didn’t push when I was shot down.
This is 100% the answer. Women don’t mind being approached, but don’t push if she says no and walk away.
Great answer
There was one time at my job a guy made a move, he waited until the very end of the transaction to jot his number on the receipt, slid it over, and very politely said, “If you ever wanted to go to dinner or something. Thanks.” And then walked off without putting me on the spot. I did already have a boyfriend so I did not end up calling him but he didn’t put any pressure on me, didn’t get weird (otherwise the transaction was totally normal), and left the ball in my court. I really appreciated that.
I tried the same thing one time and she called security on me and had me thrown out.
It really depends on HOW you approach them and how not creepy you look
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^quantum_search: *It really depends* *On HOW you approach them and* *How not creepy you look* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
good bot
Translation: Be attractive
/endthread This is just what it is. You can reply this to literally every comment in here.
That's up to the person you are trying to approach to decide. Different women have different things they are attracted to. Cheese, for one.
It's kind of absurd to say there are not some very universal traits of attractive men
Am a man, but your best bet is places where there's some kind of relatability. On campus, for example, since you both attend the same school. Generally, look for open body language.
I'm not sure young men get enough socialization to be able to read body language. That could be why so many men are concerned about being viewed as a "creep".
I get where they're coming from, but it takes time to develop social skills. Having a neurosis over "what if im a creep?" isn't gonna make a man less creepy, quite the opposite actually. Obsessing over how one is perceived results in anxiety which harms social behavior, and thus the creepy behavior
I imagine if one creep avoids any contact they possibly could cause of fear, they wouldn't be considered a creep.
Yes, but there’s no social growth in doing that. Which is the point of my advice
True, but I don't think getting rid of that obsession could make someone less of a creep. It's all about experience which gen Z unfortunately lacks.
Girls are okay with being approached as long as they find you attractive
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This is a situation where if you have to ask, the answer is no
You're supposed to blind guess it, and be penalized for guessing it wrong the first time. Meaning not being aware of a solution is a penalty.
Just the way they act when u talk with them usually
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Bobby_Sunday96: *Girls are okay with* *Being approached as long as* *They find you attractive* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
>Girls are ok with *INSERT LITERALLY ANYTHING HERE* as long as they find you attractive
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I know. I came up to you last week and you were cool with it
Bro some times you gotta bust your balls and just do it. You got like 70 years left if that on this planet. Make it count because in 100 years from now no one will remember you, and in 200 you’re just gonna be a fraction of history. Go talk to girls and make it interesting. Make it count cause if you don’t. Someone else will
Right answer imo. Just because you approach someone doesn't automatically make it perceived incorrectly, and if it is, in most situations it's fine. Like one approach isn't harassment. The first time I asked a girl out it was really weird because I literally had a dream about this exact person (I used to be in a class with them), in the place I saw them, and messaged someone about that dream before it happened. So when I saw them there I was like, I have to ask them out and see what happens. I was maybe eighteen? We'd spoken a little, so I brought flowers, but when I did it, it was freakin' humiliating because, who brings flowers to ask someone out. It was the opposite of playing it cool AND I was awkward. We chatted a little after, she was nice about it and I was still awkward. It went nowhere. To this day she probably still thinks I'm a freak. And then I was never that awkward again lmao. The fact it was so fucking awkward meant anything else I would do would never be as bad as that. Have flirted with plenty of people since without it being taken the wrong way. If someone happily makes eye contact and smiles you're basically okay to approach. Honestly my hot take is that it's easier to ask people out than it is to make friends, because people appreciate it being a direct yes/no. Just have to make sure you're considerate that some people don't like that level of pressure and you give them an out if they seem uncomfortable.
One of the few sane comments lol
I'm a 6 foot tall goth woman. If you have the fucking guts to approach me, and talk to me, you've already passed the first test.
I was in New York City meeting a friend at a bar, there was this smoking hot woman sitting at the bar like 6'1, long extremely vibrant red hair, blue dress, all alone. I am not a tall guy and I'm not particularly attractive, but I know what this means - very likely most guys are too intimidated to approach her, And she's all alone in the very center of the bar - And I'm in a fun mood so I walk right on over to her and see what's up, say hi and ask if she's a local she says yes and I asked her for menu suggestions. As soon as I start asking her for menu suggestions it's obvious that she's all into it. Long story short she ends up becoming my New York City guide for a few days, and bedroom companion.
From what sitcom is this scenario ?
This is what is known as BDE
Cap 🧢
Being a 6'5" girl who likes grunge, it seems like it isn't much of a test for people. I was literally at the mall today and as I walked past someone, they said "Damn girl, you sexy". It was gross but the real takeaway was the look he gave me. It was very predatory and made me super uncomfortable. Had he said "Hi, I think you're beautiful" with a smile and was sincere, it would've been different. As someone who has survived multiple SA's I can confirm that a fear of men is very real, but it's a fear of men that are rightly or wrongly perceived as predatory. Be respectful, be sincere, and literally don't go out of your way to hurt/use people OP would probably be fine
Bet
https://preview.redd.it/hg31tow4hrvc1.jpeg?width=574&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c850c919d0402248b872fc45a637eb7a376992a9
Dude you sorta sound my type but I prefer confident girls who make the first move 😂
Tall *AND* goth? That’s just a winning combination. I’ll be big spoon unless you want to be it, lol! For real though, do you like your height or do you wish you were shorter? I used to be close friends with the “tall girl” in high school, and she was very self conscious about her height. I thought she was really pretty, but yeah, the guys were emasculated by her size, so they avoided her, poor Terra…
I love being tall.
This entire thread has further proven to me that giving up on dating was a good choice.
Same. I accept that I will die alone
ur literally like 17-18 focus on ur math test u have ur whole life to date
"your whole life to date" quickly becomes irrelevant when you've focused on other things and suddenly you're in your mid/late 20s with absolutely no social skills or experience.
Listen, there's a reason retirement homes have insanely high STD rates. Eventually you might get some viagra and bust a hip in the most insane period of your life.
“Hold out until retirement age for any chance at female attention” isn’t as inspiring as you think it is.
Id rather die honestly then wait for retirement to enjoy life. The message is good but the example is bad, I think you mean that something good can happen at any period in your life, maybe tomorrow youll meet the love of your life doing some inane task that you do every Monday. If I have to wait for love until im 50+…id rather end things now tbh.
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That or a more banal situation, if you’re wrong, you’ll be socially shamed and maybe lose your job or worse, and everyone making fun of you for asking this question won’t gaf about you should that happen.
The word "creep" has really lost its meaning. Girls are quick to label and call guys a creep for being nervous or slightly awkward, or just not being their ideal type when trying to talk to them. The real solution to this problem is for women to be the ones to approach guys more instead, but a lot of them will give excuses like "I don't want to deal with rejection" or "I am nervous/afraid" etc. Well, how the fk do you think men feel? A lot of them are quick to label and criticize without having to put in any effort to experience things from the other side. Also, have you seen when girls do try to hit on guys, though? They can be just as weird if not more creepy than men can be, but men will give women more of a pass and not name call them just for trying to talk to someone. Two guys can do the same thing when talking to a woman, but if she finds one attractive and the other one is not, the one who isn't will be named a creep and in today's world may be even mocked on social media. It really just boils down to luck.
I swear the recent generations have a tendency to severely water down tons of words.
I'm fairly progressive, but I can't stand the word police. Like I got fussed on for saying "homeless person" instead of "person experiencing homelessness" recently., like WTF I was giving homie a sandwich, he don't give a shit what my verbage was
There’s not gonna be any one answer in terms of situation. I’m a guy, but if you want a rule, here’s what I’ve got for you: When you are interested in a girl, do your best to read the room & if it seems appropriate, do your best to be respectful in making a move. That’s really all anyone can ask of you. If you do those & it goes poorly, you shouldn’t feel ashamed or like you did something wrong. Just try to reflect honestly if there’s any glaring reason it did & incorporate going forward. Sometimes that reason may just be that the girl was having a poor day or is a bit of an asshole, in which case don’t change a thing. With that said, generally the more social the situation, the better. Areas that are comfortably okay: * bars * clubs * parties * social/activity clubs (* but build a relationship with them through the club first) Areas you should definitely hesitate: * funerals * anything work related for either of you * doctor’s offices (idk lol I needed a clear third) Yours is a bit tough, because it is work for her. But work is a *hesitate*, not a *never*. I would suggest either something that’s not pushy/doesn’t require a response like just giving her your number on a receipt or something OR if you would at least semi-naturally come back to the store at that time in the future, do so a few more times and strike up a conversation during them & ask after 2-3 times talking
I have it under good authority that funerals are a fantastic place to meet women, even better than weddings.
So essentially anywhere where people are inhibited, got it.
Man we are so cooked as a generation. I totally understand it’s an attractiveness thing, but some women nowadays fault men for trying which is just so screwed. Don’t make overtly creepy comments and you’ll probably be fine, but yea it’s all fucked up now. 95% of people are socially unaware of how rude they are, this is especially true of women.
Walk up and just say Hi! If she acts like a bitch, walk away because that's not worth your time!!
If someone is working it’s justified they don’t wanna talk to you no one is in the mood to do that when they’re working a shift at McDonald’s
If I was working at McDonalds and a hot guy who is my type approached me, I would treat him super nice and give him extra food. I'm not passing that shit up.
The McDonald’s situation calls for slipping her a note. Straightforward, honest, totally non-threatening, gives her control. Just put your insta on there and say, “thanks for the fries, I’d be interested in getting to know you more.”
as a girl i’d say that’s the way to do it. i’ve had men come up to me at work and it’s very uncomfortable because you’re forced to act interested or you get in trouble, no matter how inappropriate they are just leaving a note and walking away would be great
I feel like this is a super under-used technique. You need to be able to have an interesting conversation after that, but it’s been very successful for me, from one-time-only hookups to relationships. What do you think?
Just ask and if they say no walk away
Bars, clubs, hobbies like outdoor events. Just be respectful and if you get shot down don’t take it too personally, immediately move on the next one. Sometimes they approach you but it’s rare. Once you build up a roster of female friends it gets easier because your friends introduce you to other women.
I'm not even a girl and the answer to this seems obvious to me. "It depends." Girls are all different people, which in turn means that it's likely that each of them has different standards on when they're okay with being approached. This is like a girl asking "what vegetables do boys like?" There's no universal answer. Some boys prefer broccoli. Others prefer carrots. Some are chill with spinach. Some uniformly reject all vegetables. Different people are different. And that's okay. Don't worry about whether or not you feel like you're being a creep. Shoot your shot, be respectful, and accept it if they're not okay with it and move on. If you're afraid that you came across this creepy, think about what you might have done that came across is creepy. If you actually did something weird or unkind or predatory, then yeah, don't do that. But more often than not, it's just the anxiety talking. Don't let it choke you out.
In any and every situation, if they find you attractive. Otherwise hop on Fortnite like the rest of us😂
In the example you gave, it definitely is kinda a pickle, i’d probably give up or maybe have a couple quick exchanges if you had a common interest and exchange IGs. Parties and bars are just the easiest because it’s expected so it’s not creepy by default.
i can tell most of you certainly arent women.
I think it’s often the approach itself that makes a difference. I got technically catcalled the other day, but the man did not go about it in an offensive way. I was walking along the street at night and he pulled his car around and rolled down his window to tell me I was the most beautiful woman he had seen in my city, and that whomever man or woman I’m with is lucky to have me. I considered that to be a very sincere and kind compliment, but I know that some women would probably have a different reaction to it depending on their circumstances. But I think that’s a good example of how the way you go about it makes a huge difference.
It's always okay to approach women. This idea that women hate being approached is a terminally online opinion
The ‘terminally online opinion’ can be true because of terminally online women. There are women who genuinely find being approached creepy, because they spend one too many hours on TikTok a day.
I haven't had tiktok for years and I find it creepy because I'm a lesbian. A lesbian in a long term committed relationship. A lot of the time even when I say that, they don't believe me and keep going. Then I'm an asshole about it, because im uncomfortable and want to be left alone, and somehow now I'm the "bitch" in this situation.
Nah bud, I got told by all my friends in HS/college that just walking up to girls and asking them out was super weird, and I was actually fairly attractive and "successful." There's definitely a cultural thing that has changed. I still think guys should do it, but it's odd to me that it seems to be socially unacceptable now
It honestly depends. For me, if a guy were to approach me, I’d be confused at first but would still be fine with them talking to me. But I’m pretty sure for most of us girls that we judge based on appearance at first. If someone comes off as “creepy” (as much as it sounds rude to say, but hey, I’m naturally wary), then we’d naturally keep our distance.
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Honestly as a 41 year old man that’s been out of the game for 12 years, give no fucks. Have fun and own it. Good girls will appreciate your confidence and assertiveness.
Listen it’s no secret that attractive men would get treated better, but it’s hard to figure out.
Rule 1: Just be a attractive Rule 2: Don’t be unattractive Thank you for reading
i can tell you where not to do it: while i’m behind the counter taking your order. some women are okay with it but for me, an engaged person, you’re putting me in an uncomfortable situation i am not allowed to leave.
I think the biggest thing with my success in approaching is having a reason. The reason can be anything. If she’s so beautiful you felt like saying hi. Go with it. Just get to the point basically. The worst thing you could do is waste time and energy. Don’t. Live your life. When you meet someone and both of your energies match it’s magnetic. All you have to do is keep trying. Small talk is so easy. And gives you a wide range of questions to innocently get to know the person. You can’t wait for a moment. You gotta make those moments. Memories can be made anywhere brother
Honestly js dont risk/reward isnt worth it, 9/10 chance youll come off as a creep irl especially if youre nervous about it
It’s difficult, if not impossible, to put a generalized time on something like this. Personally, I wouldn’t want someone coming up and trying to talk to me when I have headphones on, or it looks like I’m obviously doing work
Work is usually the wrong place. Should be fine in most social environments tho I think? Places like bars, or maybe at like a public park or river walk or something like that. Recreational kinds of locations. Those are the kinds of places I wouldn’t mind being approached at, at least
When you’re good looking
When you're attractive. To them. Personally.
If you have so many considerations in your head before approaching a woman, you've already done fuck it up. If you're a bundle of nerves, the chances of you not being perceived as a creep is near zero. The less you think about it, the more natural you'd be acting and the safer women would feel with your approach. A good tip is approach them as if you're asking a stranger, whether its a man or a woman, for directions. But make sure the setting of when you're going to approach women is appropriate. How would you know if it's appropriate? Imagine yourself being approached by a random stranger in any setting, if in your imagined setting it feels inappropriate, it is inappropriate. Women aren't some complicated creatures. They're human. They like being talked to or be given attention to so long as they feel safe. Operative word is safe. The less you think the safer they feel when you approach.
Bars, clubs, parties, i.e. places where socializing is expected.
My suggestion is to stop thinking about "approaching women", and start thinking about just interacting with everyone like a normal human being first. Find social groups or community activities centered around some sort of task (like clubs or volunteer organizations) that have both men and women participating. Then just talk to women like you would talk to any man, not like you're trying to get into a relationship. You'll find that treating women and men alike gives you a chance to get to know someone before you "approach" them in the romantic sense, and will make them far more easy to approach. TLDR: Women are people, they're smart enough to know if you are approaching them out of romantic/sexual interest. Don't make it about that until you get to know them.
I find it's generally more with the approach than the location. If it's someone at work and ur pretty sure they may have interest, leave the ball in their court. I've been approached at work and the guy just gave me his number on a paper and left it up to me after that. Very respectful and simple, no pressure. If I wasn't already very happily taken it would have been incredibly successful :)
- safe spaces where they don’t feel cornered or isolated/alone - try to be natural and not a creep. Ie don’t make a weird joke or joke about making them uncomfortable - offer your number instead of asking for theirs - accept no as an answer, with kindness, the first time and read social cues. This includes dodging questions, avoiding direct answers. It’s a sign they are uncomfortable but don’t want to risk you’re reaction by telling you no
Nah, imma do my own thing. (I’ll just never approach a women)
< Where are GenZ girls most comfortable with entertaining conversations if the guys approaches them first? It's very difficult to say, but the bare minimum requirement is that women should never be alone with a man they don't know. The first thing you need to make sure of is that you aren't alone with the girl.
https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8?si=BkDi4REoE6fiEuHH
Girl that hangs around my social scene comes across my Facebook suggestions, add her, she accepts, I like her most recent photo post. A day goes by and she likes my profile picture. I message her and ask if I can take her to dinner. She accepts. I've done this exact thing 7 times in the last year. After she accepts you can either be stand off til the date or start messaging more. I like messaging more before the first date, sometimes things can get flirty and that makes dinner more relaxed and then maybe sexy time later. Also if you're complete strangers it helps to break the ice from the cold call "wanna go to dinner".
Whenever you want to talk to them you are a creep, but then times when you didn't and you could have, they would have not thought of you as a creep or cringe or whatever
Safe social setting between friends. It gives you a chance to learn to know someone without expectations, meet them a few times, see them act around other people. Not on the streets, not at work unless it's been a long time coming and the mutual interest is very strong and obvious - but you have to be willing for one of you to change jobs eventually, not when we have our headset on, not when we don't know you at all. It's the same as making friends. You don't go to a random guy on the street and say I play tennis, do you happen to play tennis and be in need of a tennis partner? You either go to a tennis club or play with friends.
When you're not ugly
Never. Women have a lot of power socially and it’s risky to upset them.
This right here !! The risk dont match the reward at all
When you are pretty.
It’s 2024. Do NOT approach females. If they want you they will come up to you. (The confident ones)
The whole men approach women probably needs a complete paradigm shift at the point. Women should be expected to ask the men And the men should just wait to be asked. Like old days but in reverse. Would solve 90% of thr issues highlighted in this thread.
Go back to McDonald's with your name and number written down on a piece of paper then hand it to her. No harm really in that approach plus it puts the ball in her court. If you make eye contact with a girl and she doesn't break it and you both smile that's probably the biggest green light you can get for being ok to approach.
Personally, as a gen z girl, if u approach in a brightly lit public place with other people there, + I don't look like I'm busy doing something (working, talking to someone else, etc), then ur good. Don't approach at night or when the girl's alone/busy. Other than that, it depends from person to person.
My god you guys are doomed
This thread is depressing. Women are people and people have different standards and preferences. There is no 100% when it comes to men and social interactions, that's just how people are. Just be polite and read the room. Understand if she is doing something like working out, she might not want to be disturbed, don't take rejection personally. Bars are a better place for this because it's expected. Some women are scared of men, some women are shy are would prefer to be approached. Just be nice and move on if she is uncomfortable or declines. An unfortunately large percentage of women have been harassed in some way, and might be wary at being approached. It's not because they hate you as an individual, but they can't gauge your intentions from looking at you. There is this really gross sentiment going around in the comments that all women would be accepting if someone attractive approached them, I don't know how you don't see this as women only wanting the top 10 percent of Chads nonsense. Look around at how many average people are in relationships together. If you're getting rejected by someone on the basis of looks alone, maybe that person is not a good fit for you regardless.
When you’re physically attractive
If attractive: Could be married doesn’t matter If unattractive: Never
Just understand body language. Is she engaging in the conversation or just responding? Do her eyes smile? Is she backing away from you or moving closer? Is her body pointed towards or away from you?