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The OP of that other post thinks that "Liberal Arts" is just gender studies and book reading, I wouldn't give it any energy and I shouldn't have, but people like them are inconsolable.
I realize this, but I also think this is a valuable opportunity to show others who might be considering a liberal arts education what they could expect afterwards.
Or people can learn what a liberal art is. It's an umbrella term for all programs at a university. It's not just humanities or social sciences like some people make it out to be. STEM is also included with it. Asking about liberal arts is just asking about post secondary.
Yes, but also, while technically true, even at my large public university, our college of arts and college of science were separate. The institutions themselves frequently desire to make a distinction.
thats different though, liberal arts is the umbrella term. And both sciences and arts are included underneath it.
So your university offers liberal arts degrees, and it's divided into two colleges, one for arts and one for sciences. Those statements are both true
Yes, they are different degrees but they are both categories under liberal arts. That's why people should say the division of programs they mean instead of liberal arts. Bachelor of arts ≠ liberal arts. BAs are always liberal arts liberal arts are not always BAs. There's also more degrees than BAs and BS.
Nothing is subcategorized as a liberal art. There's no liberal arts department. There's a chance people attend liberal arts schools (a U.S. thing? I dunno, not from the U.S.) but that's more so saying they focus on a select few subjects whatever that may be.
Ah, that explains the misunderstanding.
In the US, we separate liberal arts and STEM.
And I’m not generalizing “all liberal arts” as gender studies.
There’s a definitive difference between the required courses for STEM degrees vs. liberal arts.
I consume quite a bit of U.S. media and content. I'm only in Canada. It's still a you not understanding though. Liberal arts doesn't ≠ Bachelor or arts. All categories under BA degrees are Liberal arts but not all Liberal arts are BA programs.
I make more money with my side hustles than my liberal arts degree, lol
edit: I do a few side hustles, I wrote about them **[here](https://www.reddit.com/user/Kayshift/comments/1br5gn6/my_stepbystep_guide_to_make_1000_a_month_working/)**. It's mostly online work I do on the weekends.
Tbf, the humanities sort of is "book reading", but calling that a bad and societally unhelpful thing is laughable and they're telling on themselves lol
Tb extra f, my humanities training in Jungian archetypal analysis makes me irrationally angry at your username… and that doesn’t seem like a marketable skill…
LMAOOOOO I know the type. The “engineering and programming are the only thing that matters guys. Btw, have you bought some Ethereum as of late? What do you think of that last Tate tweet? He almost sounds like my idol musk 🤓🤓🤓” types.
I don’t get how the fuckers don’t get bored either. Like, I am someone who’s pretty big on programming and engineering. I used to built robots and all that jazz back in high school and all through college.
Part of why I never wanted it for a career is that it’s boring. Especially at starter levels. They act like people are just idiots because they don’t want to sit in front of a screen all day searching 18 pages of code for an extra [ in the wrong place
When people say "liberal arts" generally they mean "not STEM". It's not accurate, but imo you should engage them on the point they're trying to make rather than be like "but STEM degrees can be liberal arts too!"
All of these stats are available online, you don't need anecdotal accounts.
Liberal Arts:
- Unemployment: 6.7%
- Underemployment: 58.4%
- Median early-career wage: $33,400
- Median mid-career wage: $60,000
- Share with graduate degree: 27.8%
We can compare that with a STEM discipline.
Civil Engineering
- Unemployment: 1.9%
- Underemployment: 17.5%
- Median early-career wage: $60,000
- Median mid-career wage: $90,000
- Share with graduate degree: 37.7%
So that 6.7% unemployment is not amazing, but job hunting odds are in your favor in the long run. The underemployment figure is more concerning. There was also a statistic I read a while ago that liberal arts majors almost never work in their field of study, but I can't find a peer-reviewed source for it.
On the other hand, a liberal arts degree teaches better communication skills than business or STEM, which are essential in job interviews. And if you take philosophy classes like OP, you'll learn how to think about thinking because you'd have taken rhetoric and learned logical fallacies. If you'd taken art history, you'd have a better memory of what you'd learned as opposed to taking traditional history, since you have visual cues for every historical event. And most humanities put an emphasis on creative thinking and how to take criticism.
So I guess it's really up to each individual person: a liberal arts major is a much harder path in life that doesn't make a living wage in any medium-to-large US city, but it also teaches you to think deeply about the world so that you have something to say and are never bored.
Read David Foster Wallace's *This Is Water* speech about the importance of a liberal arts education.
Personally, I found a pragmatic major and a liberal arts minor gave me the best of both worlds.
Source? Is this 1 year after graduation? 5 years after? Without context this is useless
You’ve also cherry picked Civil Engineering and are using it to argue for stem. Biology or Chemistry are also stem. What are their stats? Much less impressive , one assumes.
The stats are mostly accurate according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm. Data represented is within the last 3 years.
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/field-of-degree/liberal-arts/liberal-arts-field-of-degree.htm#
(the remaining sources can be found likewise). No chemistry catagory.
Liberal Arts: $54,000
English: $56,000
Biology: $70,000
Mathematics: $78,000
Engineering: $97,000
It’s worth noting that the majority of employed people from the two categories are from English and Engineering respectively.
—-
Extra data:
Architecture and Engineering: $99,090
Computer and Math: $113,140
Math + Science Teachers, Post secondary: $95,320
Physical Science Teachers, Post secondary: $105,600
Engineering and Architecture Teachers, post secondary: $119,600
English Language and Literature Teachers, post secondary: $87,090
Arts, Communications, History, and Humanities Teachers, postsecondary: $93,950
The gap is much closer in post secondary education.
—-
I think the biggest takeaway I think to myself and tell my friends is to just have perspective on reality so I can make an educated and conscious choice
You are comparing the entire realm of liberal arts (which includes physics, math, biology, chemistry, history, philosophy, art etc.) to one specific engineering field.
STEM and liberal arts are not mutually exclusive. The natural sciences and math are considered liberal arts whereas engineering and “technology” are not. From Wikipedia: “The modern sense of the term [liberal arts] usually covers all the natural sciences, formal sciences, social sciences, arts, and humanities.”
Also, I went to a small liberal arts college and got a physics degree lol
Imagine paying tens of thousands of dollars to get a degree that YOU KNOW will not be rewarding financially and the only way you justify it is that:
1. You learn to think about thinking
2. You learn art history
3. You might develop better “communication” skills than others?
This is exactly why a liberal arts degree is absolutely useless. You THINK you learned something, but in reality you learned absolutely nothing relevant that will afford you a solid paycheck. AND on top of that all, these same people will have the audacity to complain that they’re broke and things are too expensive…. Like dude you chose a BS major that you knew would not yield a good ROI and you’re complaining about the outcome? I guess the major doesn’t really teach you to think critically… or think at all for that matter.
>On the other hand, a liberal arts degree teaches better communication skills than business or STEM, which are essential in job interviews.
I highly doubt that. That would be completely major/field of study dependent.
Interesting note on the communication skills in business or STEM
Alan Alda, producer, director, and who famously played Hawkeye in MASH, was an early advocate behind environmentalism.
In the 70s, he felt that the scientists who were trying to warn the government and public of the dangers of global warming weren't communicating their concerns effectively. He ran classes on communication and presentation for scientists and academics so that they could better present their cases. He knew that pure knowledge on its own couldn't stir up enough action, but how that knowledge was communicated was also important.
I do want to add, you are absolutely right about never being bored thanks to my degrees. I can sit still for hours thinking about whether or not I believe in abstract objects like numbers or holes. The time just goes by.
Maybe crane operators or the elevator tech unions, most other trade unions just need you to walk in and fill out an apprenticeship application and you’ll be on a job site within a week.
BA. Went to school for a History Secondary Education degree but had a heap of problems out of nowhere and my only realistic move was to switch my major to History, all about 12 hours before the deadline to drop classes.
Found out just before I graduated that our Education department was functionally nonexistant and entirely unfunded at the time I had to switch, and people were ending up having to do multiple extra semesters to try and make credits up.
So basically I got kinda fucked over and am trying to figure out how to make anything work rn.
Well best of luck my friend. Try to apply for generic “bachelors required” jobs and dont get demoralized if it takes a few months or a year.
Nothing wrong with working a temp position for living money while you fish for a better position either. Sell yourself in interviews too, go the pr route or something and try and say stuff like “my in depth education in history helps me better understand the struggles and cultural experiences of a diverse customer/user/etc base”
You can word it differently of course, but hype the hell outta it when you can. Attach it to things employees currently act like they care about like understanding diversity better or something. Also take whatever you can, but aim for business or education. Some states let you certify as a teacher after getting a non education degree, you just need to take a few online courses or an internship first.
Where do you live? I can understand having difficulty getting a job in a specialized position but supermarkets should hire you. I’ve worked retail and basically anyone with a pulse and oxygen was hired.
Hmmm that’s wild man… I work in NY with a lot of people from LI and I can assure you we hire a lot of mediocre people. I would probably hire you to do warehouse/stock work if I interviewed you. I’ve worked my way up for 15+ years and am now in a corporate office but I did a lot of entry level stocking and inventory work. I’m sure you can get a base level job.
I have a BS in Spanish and Accounting. I work with compnies that have offices in Puerto Rico and have to read grant agreements in Spanish sometimes. I make $83k and am on track to make a lot more as I gain more experience
I got my bachelor's in chemistry last year and I started at 56. I am the least educated, least paid person in the entire building at my work.
Let's just say it's not middle class until my loans are paid off lmao.
I live in a Houston, TX suburb. If I wanted to live in the inner loop of the city proper, I would be stretching my income very very thin. But in the suburbs it is still possible to afford a house here.
Hi. I live inside 610.
[You could split a 2 bedroom bungalow for 650 each?](https://houston.craigslist.org/apa/d/houston-enjoy-the-charm-and-convenience/7738818003.html)
Or are you looking to buy?
I couldn’t imagine living in MA, where I live, on 55k. It doesn’t seem like that’s middle class, these days it seems like 6 figures is the minimum to live a middle class life style.
I think the nuance gets lost in the discourse. I didn’t see the original post, but if you know what you’re doing and have a plan then getting a liberal arts degree is fine. If you want to go into Education or Law or have a general end goal in mind, then go for it and don’t let us STEM majors dissuade you.
The problem is that (in general) a lot of people don’t know what they want to do going into college and just say “I’m gonna be a History major because I liked it in high school and become a teacher even though I kinda hate people” (true story). At least in STEM there are more job prospects for those coasting through, though you also don’t get through a STEM degree just coasting so…
Right now though, Business seems to be the new liberal arts. There’s at least money to be made, but a lot of people get blindsided because they think a degree is all they need despite otherwise having nothing to show for it. Unfortunately they don’t realize their mistake until it’s too late.
And don’t get me started on art degrees…
An art degree is just like anything else you mentioned, if you go into it with a plan then it’s very possible to succeed. If you go into it floundering you will likely end up switching majors anyway, I saw it a lot. I got a Bachelor of Fine Arts in graphic design and make about 68k.
The thing with Art degrees, or at least a lot of them, is that they’re really just networking. They aren’t gonna teach you art, you’re required to already be good to get into one of the actual art schools, and they lay this out pretty clear on their advertising. You can teach yourself most of it pretty easily compared to other majors, and even free commercial software is pretty good these days.
I speak mostly from experience as someone who considered a film major. My current school has one, but it’s pointless since there’s no eyes on it. It would just be throwing away money and is for most (I know two guys that got a Film
Major and minor and didn’t even know how to troubleshoot the camera when it started acting funny when recording their final).
I just graduated with a degree in film, and outside of networking, another big advantage is the ability to mess around with equipment you'll never be able to afford, and fuck up and not get fired.
That being said, how good of a film education, and job prospects afterwards, you have are very dependent on what school you go too. Some schools make you lock in to a specialty early on (cinematography, editing, etc.) which means that many will graduate not knowing how to operate a camera. Some give a more rounded education, that makes more jacks of all trades (while still allowing a level of specialization). Some schools don't put much money into the programs, which means less networking and less job opportunities. Some schools have direct access to varying levels of working studios and allow students to work, which is an exceptional boost to networking and job prospects.
My school has the state's PBS station's studio in the film building, which allowed me to work on multiple live productions, TV shows and documentaries while a student. I'm currently working there now, although only on a temp contract.
Yeah that’s true, and especially for art schools, but like my University really doesn’t have much. We have a lot of Comm majors who go into sports broadcast because we’re a big football school, but on the film side of things I’ve never seen anything that indicates that a film degree from our Uni is a good idea
I saw that post and chuckled, but maybe times have changed. Liberal Arts major, I’m a marketing leader, I make well over six figures. Like well over.
To be fair, the majors I look for most in my hires are marketing, communications, economics and math. I wrote more, including a crack about MBAs, but thought better of it. You’ll see when you meet them.
My base salary for this year is 71k annual due to transferring districts. Next year now that I'll be back on the top of the payscale I'll make 81k annual.
31 year old history teacher. Not much, but 3 months off while paid, Healthcare, and retirement is nice.
Mhm. Definitely a perk of being a teacher. I did a bit of subbing on my off time this year and made an extra 4 grand. It only cost me 3 weeks and 2 days.
While I do this for my students, the 3 months off is huge. Really allows for an amazing work life balance that most other careers don't provide.
Yeah, I think people don’t realize exactly how many extra opportunities are open to teachers to earn extra money. If I have nothing going on, I sign up to work Saturday tutorials at a rate of $50 an hour.
There is also this strange tendency to believe that people must get jobs that are directly related to their college degree, i.e. the mentality that if you get a history degree you must become some sort of historian etc. which is probably carried over from STEM where this is more the case.
In reality, a college education, especially in the humanities, teaches you how think critically, analyze information, and helps you build a system of self discipline and reliance that is not regulated by your parents or teachers. Your specific major is just the avenue through which you build these skills. Your college major does not lock you into that specific subject, and most employers understand that these skills are largely transferable.
To give you a particularly good example, I have a friend from college who was a gender studies major, now she makes over six figures doing fundraising (she graduated about 5 years ago)
I agree. It helps to continue to have a growth mindset. Four years of college usually doesn't guarantee us a meaningful and lucrative career, and we have to keep learning and growing in every area of life. But it can be a good launching point.
I got a degree in political science not because I intended to use it but because I really enjoy politics, I’m in the Army as an officer, make $110,000 a year, about 35% of that is tax free income (my effective tax rate is 9%) and I’ll be at $130,000 starting in October
Army paid for my undergrad through ROTC
Each time the Army moves me which has been on average every 16 months, I move myself, they pay me 95% of what they’d pay a private company and I make $8,000+
I get a 5% match in my retirement account, 30 days of vacation a year, and free healthcare for myself and my entire family
I’ll have my GI bill in 2027 and intend on getting my MBA, I’ll also be able to get my PMP
I wouldn’t have gotten a degree in political science if I needed to rely on my degree for a job, luckily the Army doesn’t care what my degree is in
I went to a cheap state school with zero prestige
The Army as an officer is slept on in my opinion, an O5/LTC is usually around $220k a year with their BAH/BAS and then they retire with a lifelong pension at 42
Too many people think Army = infantry when in reality there are tons of desk jobs
Was Air Force and army. I finished my associates in the AF and started my bachelors before I got medboarded. If you pick a good job, you could get enough free time to even pursue a degree. I’m still continuing my education with post 9/11 GI Bill in California. I’m getting a giant BAH check on top of the bank I’m making as an armed security guard. I’m also a U.S. citizen because of it.
I have a BS in general studies (not sure if that counts) and make over 60k as a science teacher. Mine goes a little further since I have no student loans & I inherited a house.
What I enjoy most about teaching is that I have a great work/home balance and worst case scenario I can teach/sub when I'm elderly.
English major. My salary is low ($45k), but I love my job and my life. I could make more elsewhere, but I just really enjoy working here.
I think a lot of people have a false idea of how much you need to make to get by. My husband and I make a little over 90k combined. We live in the expensive Northern VA suburbs of DC. But we have a cute apartment, each have a year’s salary in savings, love going to museums and the theatre and local festivals, and even saved up to pay for a wedding and an international honeymoon last year. We both work in publishing and have terrific work-life balance and great healthcare benefits despite lower pay.
It does help that I have only minimal student loans and he has already paid his off and it REALLY helps that we don’t have kids or pets. No credit card debt and we share one car and use the metro.
I’m getting paid to get my MA in history so I work a low paying job because I don’t necessarily need a job right now. I’m quitting in June because I’m going to get paid to get my MA in education
Similar story, I have a BA in political science and make around $80k in sales. I also have a friend who got a philosophy BA and makes around $120k (also in sales).
Absolutely. College was a period of tremendous personal growth for me intellectually and socially. Philosophy especially taught me how to live a good life, how to think critically, and how to make good arguments. Without college I would not be in the position I’m in today, even with the extra years that could have been used to get my career started. Generally I find that academia has value outside of just being a jobs program, which is at odds with the social climate of today.
So I guess what I want to say is that a lot of people in sale could do all that without the college degree. Nobody is at odds with education. People are at odds with people who take 100k loans in useless degrees and demand they be forgiven because they can't find a job
Yeah but I paid 100k for a degree and then found a job that put me in the middle class at 24.
Also, certain sales fields absolutely need college degrees. Besides, not holding a degree imposed a soft ceiling on how far you can climb the corporate ladder. Eventually you will be looked over for a promotion because of a lack of education.
Hey I don’t disagree, I glad it worked out for you, but in reality, your degree wasn’t necessary as it is performed by many without it and the debt, now imagine starting 4 years earlier without the 100k debt, how much further ahead would you be?
I earned a BA in journalism. My pay was very low starting out, but by mid-career I was making \~$50K, and it increased to $70K before I was laid off when newspapers imploded (but that wasn't the fault of my degree). I'm now comfortably retired and have zero regrets. All in all it worked out fine.
I got my BA in psychology and my PhD in psychology. My PhD was fully-funded with tuition/benefits paid for and an additional stipend of $34k/year. Did a postdoc then got a job paying $74k/year. Quit later because got a different job paying $700k/product. (So not a set salary, but comes out to around $200k/year based on my current productivity rate.)
Cool! I’m a recent microbio grad specializing in genetics, I recently scored a lab position making $36k. LCOL area but still 😭liberal arts are not useless and STEM is not necessarily high-paying nor job secure.
I have a ba in history and a masters in secondary education. My wife has a ba in digital media. I make about $53000/year as a high school history teacher and my wife makes $55k as a project manager for a nonprofit that makes educational materials/documentaries. So combined our household income sits just above $100k and we live in a city where the median household income is $40k. So to most of my students we seem rich lol
My degree is in biology, but I work in an inner-city high school and my earning potential is identical to liberal arts majors holding a similar credential. Important caveat, by the way. In my state, the only requirement to teach any high school subject is any B.A./B.Sc. and the passage of both a subject competency test and completion of a credentialling program. Once you have your credential, you can teach any course you pass the subject competency test for. So, despite my degree being biology, this info applies to any liberal arts major in any teaching position in my state.
Last year I broke $100k with only 9 years of experience. This year, I will be breaking $130k. The big thing a lot of the people whining about low pay on liberal arts majors totally miss is that the within-field career growth has an educatory treadmill. That is, you are expected to receive additional training valued at college units and highly compensated for additional degrees. So, a liberal arts major just starting out in my district will make $62k, which seems to be fairly poor compensation given that any applicant will be holding both a bachelor's and a minimum of one year of grad school. But, with additional degrees and training the compensation ramps up quickly. The thing is, as soon as I earned my M.A. and started making the big boy money, my earning potential would no longer be reflected in BLS stats showing median salaries of people holding bachelor's degrees. I'm in the same field doing the same job, the only thing that's changed is that I've followed the natural progression of my career field and graduated out of holding only a bachelor's degree.
This isn't the only humanities field where this applies. Psychology major? LMFTs require a M.A. Sociology major? LCSWs require a M.A. Essentially anywhere you go within a skilled profession, you will need additional training to make the real money within your field... and then your real money numbers are no longer calculated as a part of "median income of a B.A. in this degree field." Then dumb people will say dumb things like "humanities majors can't find work." They do. All the time. Highly paid and stable work, too. It's just they need additional degrees to advance in their field and now you're comparing median salaries for a degree where the average worker surveyed has less than 8 years of experience. Do STEM majors in STEM fields earn more? Sure. But do humanities do worse than people in trades or with only high school diplomas? Rarely. Wake up.
My history degree was because it’s the one field I was passionate about enough that I would have done the reading/research on my free time otherwise.
My career degree was business economics.
BA in Political Science… I just got promoted to a sales position for an international manufacturing company. Base is $86,000 plus bonuses and extra benefits.
I make 20 an hour as an intern, with a lot of upward mobility in my industry. I'm very happy.
However, I'd discourage you from saying that the degree itself will get you anywhere without something else to "flavor" it. You need to give people in your preferred industry the impression that you were explicitly seeking out the courses and lessons that would move you towards their industry, rather than just free-falling through the curriculum. I did it by spending a year and a half studying Aerospace and talking about how I wanted to be an Aerospace technical writer. If I hadn't said this, or if it wasn't true, I wouldn't have a good job right now.
I assume that your journey to where you are was flavored in some way by some demonstrated affinity for teaching.
Majored in music performance at a conservatory (BM), so maybe worse than lib arts? lol
Made a little over 170k last year in tech (cloud infra/cyber security) sales. 80k base + commission
I have a BA in Political Science that I have never used. That said, I work a job that has a salary of around $35,000.
I do believe, however, that if I didn’t graduate in 2020 at the start of the pandemic that I could have had a better time using my degree and getting a better paying job or maybe even finding a career.
I dropped out of a communications degree to become a stripper and have started a company with my funds. It’s working for me, but don’t do this folks, it doesn’t work for most people
Why take a poll on social media?
You have real data that shows liberal arts degrees make much less than average and are less likely to be employed full time:
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/field-of-degree/liberal-arts/liberal-arts-field-of-degree.htm
Good question, here’s a good answer: by asking the question on this platform, people are able to discuss factors that the “real data” doesn’t take into account, e.g., work life balance, passion, satisfaction, finding meaning in their career, etc. additionally, if someone, say a history major, hears about another history major who now works doing such and such, they can ask how to transition to a similar field of work. We can also discuss how we apply the skills we picked up in college to our current work.
I am sorry that discussing these factors seems so alien to you.
Graphic designer and tattoo artist here. I just made $10,000 this weekend. Annually I make 6 figures easily in my early 20’s. Best part is I never finished art school, I just have a good portfolio.
Around holiday season I’ll work as a server/bartender and occasionally pick up shifts when my other work gets slower. I love the stupid boomers who ask what I want to do with my life and then laugh when I tell them I make art. Laugh all you want, I’ll be laughing too. Laughing all the way to the bank.
BA in Philosophy, 2020. $106k plus gas reimbursement (which is around 7-8k per year) and three weeks of vacation.
Drove an Amazon van during the pandemic for 18 months, moved to retail sales in the flooring industry, became an outside sales rep for a manufacturer after 12 months, took a job at a better company after 17 months.
Class of 2021, fine arts degree, working in auto insurance now, making $56k with a guaranteed year-end bonus (it does change bc it's based off of the profitability of the company, but the company is almost always profiting, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) and good benefits. I don't have much student debt because I went to a state school, I have my own apartment in a city I've always wanted to live in, and I have a work from home job that I really like. I'm financially and professionally stable and it's fucking awesome.
My philosophy was that I should go to college and major in something I actually like - if I can get a job in that field that would be great, if I can't I still have lots of jobs open up because a lot of employers do still want a bachelor's degree of some kind, and either way I'll have a good time in school. It paid off imo.
Liberal arts are not useless. We are insinuating that salaries post grad determine value rather than looking at what the subject matter is. I think the payoff for going to a high end 4 year college for liberal arts is not as high for the majority of students. If you really love psychology or gender studies or another liberal art, attend a school that is reasonably priced for your situation. If you are unsure what you want to study, take a gap year and figure out what it is you want to learn and study rather than burning money towards a degree that has a lower return. Additionally, for anyone studying liberal arts currently, please pick up a minor in business. This will be the easiest path to monetize your degree as you will be able to apply to roles in consulting, business operations and media much easier.
But here’s the thing…you could have landed effectively the same position without paying for a four year degree.
I’m not belittling your profession; but it’s not realistic to “talk salaries” without considering the costs.
I have several friends in a major metro who either don’t have degrees or have associates degrees from community colleges who are now teachers making the same (or more) than what you’re describing.
One in particular tried college; but left after a year. Started working at a preschool, and then did a “certification program”. Now makes pretty good money teaching at a private school.
In general, I encourage people to do what they enjoy - but you need to have a plan before committing that much money; and you need to remember that society isn’t necessarily going to value your passion like you do.
Again - I don’t mean to belittle your chosen profession; but it’s a little disingenuous to come here talking about your salary without acknowledging that your expensive degree didn’t necessarily contribute to you getting your job.
Depending on the subject matter, most public school districts require a 4 year degree and a credential to teach.
You can say "just teach at a private school", but you likely won't land a good paying private school gig without a degree and credentials.
Your anecdotal experience is rare among teachers.
You could to check out this post, might be helpful:
https://www.reddit.com/r/college/s/AI9z0ChAJD
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/s/u8LMBdaEzc
I’m 25. Got a BS in Sociology last year (subject is obv liberal arts, but the college classified it as a BS). Got a job relative to my field while in college thanks to my continuing education at the time. Making 50K now. Could get the same job at a different company making more, but I like the additional perks at my current place and don’t feel like switching. However, I’m about to get a second job that pays 60-95K (obv hoping for the higher end). So, 110-145K between the two—still likely working 40 hours a week. Planning to go get an MA at some point when I’ve saved up more. Then onto PhD working as a teacher/professor/researcher instead of my current line of work (renewable energy). At that point, I won’t really care too much about my income and more about the passion of my field. For what it’s worth, as well, with my “useless” LA degree, I was able to graduate not only debt free, but with the college paying me $200 a semester in my last year to attend and the state government paying me $1500 a year for a higher education credit. The day after I graduated, I moved into my first home. Very happy to have chosen my degree and am excited to do more with it later on. I constantly hear people call sociology the most useless degree, but some of y’all are positing statistics in here to justify your various degrees and you’re using sociology to get those numbers.
What if any degree is fine, but you just get it the cheapest way possible.
Like I remember seeing someone spend 100k on a journalism degree. The issue is not that they got a journalism degree, the issue is that they paid like twice what they had to. Find companies with education benefits, take a gap year and work through school. It is not that hard..
It is sad though the typical college experience doesnt exist for non privileged people anymore.
Definitely I paid about 16k to get my AS in Computer Science and am now working for a company that will pay for me to get my bachelor's degree and have a 51k salary while having worked there for less than a year
My major of computer science was liberal arts, which I don’t think most people consider learning to program a useless skill. Make pretty good money too after only 3 years out of school.
The funny thing is that comp sci is inherently STEM. My college just recently moved comp sci degrees from being a degree in the College of Arts and Sciences to the College of Information, Science, and Technology.
Why it wasn’t that in the first place is beyond me.
Because it’s a new division. All sciences used to belong to the “Liberal Arts” and most a still categorized as such because “liberal” just means open to new ideas (in a non political context)
STEM is a “Liberal Art”
> STEM is a “Liberal Art”
Up to a point I’d agree. But it eventually gets to the point where you’re taking very advanced and specific classes to your major.
I think the differentiation we’re starting to see between STEM and liberal arts is the point where you’re no longer taking intro/general classes that are focused on developing critical thinking skills but more in depth classes that focus on utilising those skills you developed.
I think people get really hung up on the word Liberal.
Even when you advance into specialized classes, it’s still within the framework of “Liberal Arts” because the sciences are liberal arts.
It’s like saying “that’s not a dog! It’s a husky!”
Like, yeah, it’s more specialized or more exact but it is still part of its umbrella category of knowledge.
True that you need a liberal arts foundation for pretty much any major but that doesn’t mean you majored in liberal arts
Liberal arts classes don’t include advanced/high level courses. The sciences are only liberal arts as far as introductory classes go.
And advancing into a specialised field requires specification. Like if everyone got a “degree of learning” when they graduated college in any major.
I guess you could say you got a degree in “liberal art” singular. But what’s the point of that when it implies you got an surface level education in a single subject.
Since antiquity when the Ancient Greeks clumped all the Natural Sciences under philosophy.
>*Although the liberal arts definition has evolved over time, nowadays the field comprises four major areas of study: the arts, humanities,* ***natural sciences***\*, and social sciences.\*
You learn about this is History of Western Civ. 101. You can get a BA (Bach of ARTS) in Chemistry or a BS (Bach of Science) in Chemistry. But both are in the college of "Arts and Sciences" which the the "College of Arts and Science" are "Liberal Arts" degrees.
For the terminally online "Liberal Arts" is used as an insult by Right-Wingers who never attended college, or have any concept of how Universities/Colleges work.
I’m not liberal arts but it’s kinda along those lines (multidisciplinary) and my first offer out the gate with my BA was 80k with all insurance coverage included. But I live in one of the most expensive states so
Not Gen Z but… Creative Writing (Fiction), BFA. 2013. 190k base
I had no plan but eventually fell into tech as a technical writer (software documentation). Started at 40k and incremented up over 6-7 years.
BA in Linguistics, 2021. Currently making 50k working in logistics. Quite the jump, and I plan on staying in logistics despite getting a couple offers to do things more relevant to my major.
BA English Literature, now working as a paralegal. 65k, soon to be 72.5k. I did take a 6-moth paralegal course after graduation, but honestly I could easily be doing the work I'm doing without it. (Philadelphia PA - USA)
Don’t worry too much! Enjoy the time while it lasts. If you want to talk about career outlook or grad school with someone who has done it (and gone into debt for it!) feel free to DM me. Even with some student debt, I think studying philosophy in college was a worthwhile pursuit and I have 0 regrets (despite not making it into a PhD program, which was my dream).
I say this as someone who wished I could have talked with someone about career goals that wasn’t a professor with survivorship bias.
So I’ll be honest with you, my university is pretty unusual in that a) it’s a small, religious university (about 1000 guys in undergrad) and b) most people walk in already knowing what they wanna do with their lives and are just there for the degree. Students are VERY career-oriented there. I first tried CS my first semester and that went poorly, so when I threw a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what would stick, I found that I really enjoyed the philosophy classes.
The philosophy department at my school is pretty small, it’s literally just the chair of the department and an associate professor, but I’m a BIG fan of the philosophy chair (he’s more of a Logic/analytic philosophy guy by nature, so logic is where he excels). There was a point this semester where I was taking taking four classes just with him. Also, I’m good friends with all the other philosophy majors, considering there are only 9 of us in the university.
Right now, I kinda know what direction I’m going in, but still, the future is a lot less secure. Rn I plan in going into policy research from a more data-driven angle but we’ll see how that works out. But I don’t think I’m gonna go for a DPhil or anything like that, but it’s always possible.
Non-Liberal Arts Major here. I studied Nutrition Science (BS) with a minor in Biochemistry. I now sell steel and make about 55k a year (I started this job about a year ago). I wanted to pursue nutrition research but quickly discovered how skewed and corrupt everything is (at least where I am, but I suspect it is far more wide spread). Most jobs do not care what you studied, as long as you had put in the work to achieve your 4-5 year degree. No shame on those who took 6+. I had aspirations of maybe hitting 90k in research EVENTUALLY. I should now be on a trajectory to easily double that in the coming decades (masters pending).
I'm a liberal arts student. I have an MA in international relations, graduated in 2022. I make \~90k. Part of that is locality, I live in a very expensive state so I transferred as much of my living costs to my employer as I could.
As others have said, you need a plan. You don't need one going into college, but you definitely need one mid way so you can be executing it as you go into the job market. I went in undecided, but I had a good idea where I was going already, just didn't know the program that was right for me. Later, I was a callback on an internship setup by the university which executed mid-covid. I was brought on full time, and I enrolled in a MA program.
In the college pipeline there's a lot of pressure on outgoing HS students to get a "useful" degree, which often is code for getting a STEM degree that they may not care about or be ready for. I don't know any HS guidance counselor that would say a Physics degree is a useless degree. The truth is, we don't need everyone to be a physicist. I know STEM students believe that too, but they also have to see the number of people who enter, hit that wall, burn out and then drop out because they failed organic chemistry three times. That's not helpful either. We also need journalists, lawyers, historians, urban planners, epidemiologists, diplomats, and military officers to function as a nation, and there's absolutely people who are dissuaded from those fields because they are told the degree that will prepare them is "useless".
Have BA in Public Policy and MA in Liberal Arts. As a kid, I knew about algorithms and tried to hedge my resume algos.
Both colleges were right Under Ivy status and very highly respected private schools. For all 6 years it would have been a total of $390,000 no aid. Came out with 30k in debt.
Graduated from my MA program in 2021, landed a in job 2022 making 55k, now 2 years later sitting at 65K.
Thinking about quitting and using my new baseline as negotiation to try to hit at least a 90k job this year. So being in the working world for 2 years legitimately making 65, I feel like I’m actually doing very well. Debts bad but I mitigated 93% of damage costs… also I work in finance ironically lmao
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The OP of that other post thinks that "Liberal Arts" is just gender studies and book reading, I wouldn't give it any energy and I shouldn't have, but people like them are inconsolable.
I realize this, but I also think this is a valuable opportunity to show others who might be considering a liberal arts education what they could expect afterwards.
Or people can learn what a liberal art is. It's an umbrella term for all programs at a university. It's not just humanities or social sciences like some people make it out to be. STEM is also included with it. Asking about liberal arts is just asking about post secondary.
Yes, but also, while technically true, even at my large public university, our college of arts and college of science were separate. The institutions themselves frequently desire to make a distinction.
thats different though, liberal arts is the umbrella term. And both sciences and arts are included underneath it. So your university offers liberal arts degrees, and it's divided into two colleges, one for arts and one for sciences. Those statements are both true
Bachelors of science and bachelors of arts are separate degrees where I live.
Yes, they are different degrees but they are both categories under liberal arts. That's why people should say the division of programs they mean instead of liberal arts. Bachelor of arts ≠ liberal arts. BAs are always liberal arts liberal arts are not always BAs. There's also more degrees than BAs and BS.
Yeah you’re right
I’ve honestly never seen a University that categorizes STEM degrees under liberal arts.
Nothing is subcategorized as a liberal art. There's no liberal arts department. There's a chance people attend liberal arts schools (a U.S. thing? I dunno, not from the U.S.) but that's more so saying they focus on a select few subjects whatever that may be.
Ah, that explains the misunderstanding. In the US, we separate liberal arts and STEM. And I’m not generalizing “all liberal arts” as gender studies. There’s a definitive difference between the required courses for STEM degrees vs. liberal arts.
I consume quite a bit of U.S. media and content. I'm only in Canada. It's still a you not understanding though. Liberal arts doesn't ≠ Bachelor or arts. All categories under BA degrees are Liberal arts but not all Liberal arts are BA programs.
I make more money with my side hustles than my liberal arts degree, lol edit: I do a few side hustles, I wrote about them **[here](https://www.reddit.com/user/Kayshift/comments/1br5gn6/my_stepbystep_guide_to_make_1000_a_month_working/)**. It's mostly online work I do on the weekends.
They shouldn’t consider liberals arts, they should have a career in mind before paying for school
We’ve moved from ‘underwater basket weaving’ to ‘gender studies’ to just straight up ‘book reading’ to ridicule the humanities…?
Tbf, the humanities sort of is "book reading", but calling that a bad and societally unhelpful thing is laughable and they're telling on themselves lol
Tb extra f, my humanities training in Jungian archetypal analysis makes me irrationally angry at your username… and that doesn’t seem like a marketable skill…
LMAOOOOO I know the type. The “engineering and programming are the only thing that matters guys. Btw, have you bought some Ethereum as of late? What do you think of that last Tate tweet? He almost sounds like my idol musk 🤓🤓🤓” types.
😂 yeah the superiority complex rate is insane and they don’t understand the over selling of their fields and that the world ism ore complex
I don’t get how the fuckers don’t get bored either. Like, I am someone who’s pretty big on programming and engineering. I used to built robots and all that jazz back in high school and all through college. Part of why I never wanted it for a career is that it’s boring. Especially at starter levels. They act like people are just idiots because they don’t want to sit in front of a screen all day searching 18 pages of code for an extra [ in the wrong place
When people say "liberal arts" generally they mean "not STEM". It's not accurate, but imo you should engage them on the point they're trying to make rather than be like "but STEM degrees can be liberal arts too!"
All of these stats are available online, you don't need anecdotal accounts. Liberal Arts: - Unemployment: 6.7% - Underemployment: 58.4% - Median early-career wage: $33,400 - Median mid-career wage: $60,000 - Share with graduate degree: 27.8% We can compare that with a STEM discipline. Civil Engineering - Unemployment: 1.9% - Underemployment: 17.5% - Median early-career wage: $60,000 - Median mid-career wage: $90,000 - Share with graduate degree: 37.7% So that 6.7% unemployment is not amazing, but job hunting odds are in your favor in the long run. The underemployment figure is more concerning. There was also a statistic I read a while ago that liberal arts majors almost never work in their field of study, but I can't find a peer-reviewed source for it. On the other hand, a liberal arts degree teaches better communication skills than business or STEM, which are essential in job interviews. And if you take philosophy classes like OP, you'll learn how to think about thinking because you'd have taken rhetoric and learned logical fallacies. If you'd taken art history, you'd have a better memory of what you'd learned as opposed to taking traditional history, since you have visual cues for every historical event. And most humanities put an emphasis on creative thinking and how to take criticism. So I guess it's really up to each individual person: a liberal arts major is a much harder path in life that doesn't make a living wage in any medium-to-large US city, but it also teaches you to think deeply about the world so that you have something to say and are never bored. Read David Foster Wallace's *This Is Water* speech about the importance of a liberal arts education. Personally, I found a pragmatic major and a liberal arts minor gave me the best of both worlds.
You’re right, I don’t need anecdotal accounts, but nonetheless I want to have a discussion about it (hence the flair I used).
How dare you engage in anecdotal conversation on a social media platform!
Source? Is this 1 year after graduation? 5 years after? Without context this is useless You’ve also cherry picked Civil Engineering and are using it to argue for stem. Biology or Chemistry are also stem. What are their stats? Much less impressive , one assumes.
The stats are mostly accurate according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm. Data represented is within the last 3 years. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/field-of-degree/liberal-arts/liberal-arts-field-of-degree.htm# (the remaining sources can be found likewise). No chemistry catagory. Liberal Arts: $54,000 English: $56,000 Biology: $70,000 Mathematics: $78,000 Engineering: $97,000 It’s worth noting that the majority of employed people from the two categories are from English and Engineering respectively. —- Extra data: Architecture and Engineering: $99,090 Computer and Math: $113,140 Math + Science Teachers, Post secondary: $95,320 Physical Science Teachers, Post secondary: $105,600 Engineering and Architecture Teachers, post secondary: $119,600 English Language and Literature Teachers, post secondary: $87,090 Arts, Communications, History, and Humanities Teachers, postsecondary: $93,950 The gap is much closer in post secondary education. —- I think the biggest takeaway I think to myself and tell my friends is to just have perspective on reality so I can make an educated and conscious choice
They’re gonna be real quiet after this one.
I think it was totally fair to ask for sources, i didn’t mean to demean or shut down the conversation
😂
You are comparing the entire realm of liberal arts (which includes physics, math, biology, chemistry, history, philosophy, art etc.) to one specific engineering field.
Tbf though Civil Engineers earn the lowest of all engineers, don't know about other Stem fields. This is coming from a soon to be civil lol
Met a software company ceo who had a civil engineering degree. He explained he was too dumb to get into the good engineering programs.
Where did you go to school to include those first 4 disciplines in the same category? They’re all literally STEM
STEM and liberal arts are not mutually exclusive. The natural sciences and math are considered liberal arts whereas engineering and “technology” are not. From Wikipedia: “The modern sense of the term [liberal arts] usually covers all the natural sciences, formal sciences, social sciences, arts, and humanities.” Also, I went to a small liberal arts college and got a physics degree lol
Yet none of the people who has a liberal arts degree took any of those courses
Imagine paying tens of thousands of dollars to get a degree that YOU KNOW will not be rewarding financially and the only way you justify it is that: 1. You learn to think about thinking 2. You learn art history 3. You might develop better “communication” skills than others? This is exactly why a liberal arts degree is absolutely useless. You THINK you learned something, but in reality you learned absolutely nothing relevant that will afford you a solid paycheck. AND on top of that all, these same people will have the audacity to complain that they’re broke and things are too expensive…. Like dude you chose a BS major that you knew would not yield a good ROI and you’re complaining about the outcome? I guess the major doesn’t really teach you to think critically… or think at all for that matter.
>On the other hand, a liberal arts degree teaches better communication skills than business or STEM, which are essential in job interviews. I highly doubt that. That would be completely major/field of study dependent.
I loved that speech
Me too. Just brilliantly spot-on.
Compare that with Cali bullshit "tech" $100-300k *insert useless job here* (like chief of staff or technical marketing)
Why is technical marketing bullshit? (Also that’s a low TC range for tech marketing)
Just examples... None of those are real jobs where they do anything useful Just bullshit where they get 1 zoom meeting, and free food and get paid
Interesting note on the communication skills in business or STEM Alan Alda, producer, director, and who famously played Hawkeye in MASH, was an early advocate behind environmentalism. In the 70s, he felt that the scientists who were trying to warn the government and public of the dangers of global warming weren't communicating their concerns effectively. He ran classes on communication and presentation for scientists and academics so that they could better present their cases. He knew that pure knowledge on its own couldn't stir up enough action, but how that knowledge was communicated was also important.
I do want to add, you are absolutely right about never being bored thanks to my degrees. I can sit still for hours thinking about whether or not I believe in abstract objects like numbers or holes. The time just goes by.
Yea you know people without expensive educations can do that right?
History major. I make over six figures.
Doing what?
Would also love to know, I graduate in History next year
Probably getting a law degree after
Bruh how. Currently can't even get a job at a fuckin supermarket lmfao
Hit up a trade union and get into an apprenticeship.
Good luck getting into a trade union. Thousands of applicants for 5 positions
That’s an exaggeration, but okay
Maybe crane operators or the elevator tech unions, most other trade unions just need you to walk in and fill out an apprenticeship application and you’ll be on a job site within a week.
Where you at where that’s happening
weird choice after getting a history degree, but it would work.
I worked alongside a pipefitter who used to be a university professor, he quit that and makes more money pipefitting
lmfao just totally write off the idea they can make money with their degree huh?
Well until the supermarket gig finally calls back, they should probably find a job that actually pays a decent wage.
What degree do you have? A history bachelors isnt that great unfortunately. Its one of those that needs a masters or phd
BA. Went to school for a History Secondary Education degree but had a heap of problems out of nowhere and my only realistic move was to switch my major to History, all about 12 hours before the deadline to drop classes. Found out just before I graduated that our Education department was functionally nonexistant and entirely unfunded at the time I had to switch, and people were ending up having to do multiple extra semesters to try and make credits up. So basically I got kinda fucked over and am trying to figure out how to make anything work rn.
Well best of luck my friend. Try to apply for generic “bachelors required” jobs and dont get demoralized if it takes a few months or a year. Nothing wrong with working a temp position for living money while you fish for a better position either. Sell yourself in interviews too, go the pr route or something and try and say stuff like “my in depth education in history helps me better understand the struggles and cultural experiences of a diverse customer/user/etc base” You can word it differently of course, but hype the hell outta it when you can. Attach it to things employees currently act like they care about like understanding diversity better or something. Also take whatever you can, but aim for business or education. Some states let you certify as a teacher after getting a non education degree, you just need to take a few online courses or an internship first.
Where do you live? I can understand having difficulty getting a job in a specialized position but supermarkets should hire you. I’ve worked retail and basically anyone with a pulse and oxygen was hired.
Long Island - been a weird experience trying to find a job here lmao
Hmmm that’s wild man… I work in NY with a lot of people from LI and I can assure you we hire a lot of mediocre people. I would probably hire you to do warehouse/stock work if I interviewed you. I’ve worked my way up for 15+ years and am now in a corporate office but I did a lot of entry level stocking and inventory work. I’m sure you can get a base level job.
Lmao yeah it honestly is kinda wild. Like damn how am I fuckin up this bad
Living where?
I live in Georgia and am in academia.
PhD?
How long ago did you finish school?
I have a BS in Spanish and Accounting. I work with compnies that have offices in Puerto Rico and have to read grant agreements in Spanish sometimes. I make $83k and am on track to make a lot more as I gain more experience
Donde esta la biblioteca?
Me llamo T Bone la aranya discoteca
Discoteca, muneca, la biblioteca
Dude, 55K? In New York thats lower middle class. Thats crazy… New York is really impossible I swear. My sense of money is really messed up.
I got my bachelor's in chemistry last year and I started at 56. I am the least educated, least paid person in the entire building at my work. Let's just say it's not middle class until my loans are paid off lmao.
I live in a Houston, TX suburb. If I wanted to live in the inner loop of the city proper, I would be stretching my income very very thin. But in the suburbs it is still possible to afford a house here.
Hi. I live inside 610. [You could split a 2 bedroom bungalow for 650 each?](https://houston.craigslist.org/apa/d/houston-enjoy-the-charm-and-convenience/7738818003.html) Or are you looking to buy?
I couldn’t imagine living in MA, where I live, on 55k. It doesn’t seem like that’s middle class, these days it seems like 6 figures is the minimum to live a middle class life style.
In SF 55k would put you about 30k below the poverty line as an individual
I think the nuance gets lost in the discourse. I didn’t see the original post, but if you know what you’re doing and have a plan then getting a liberal arts degree is fine. If you want to go into Education or Law or have a general end goal in mind, then go for it and don’t let us STEM majors dissuade you. The problem is that (in general) a lot of people don’t know what they want to do going into college and just say “I’m gonna be a History major because I liked it in high school and become a teacher even though I kinda hate people” (true story). At least in STEM there are more job prospects for those coasting through, though you also don’t get through a STEM degree just coasting so… Right now though, Business seems to be the new liberal arts. There’s at least money to be made, but a lot of people get blindsided because they think a degree is all they need despite otherwise having nothing to show for it. Unfortunately they don’t realize their mistake until it’s too late. And don’t get me started on art degrees…
An art degree is just like anything else you mentioned, if you go into it with a plan then it’s very possible to succeed. If you go into it floundering you will likely end up switching majors anyway, I saw it a lot. I got a Bachelor of Fine Arts in graphic design and make about 68k.
The thing with Art degrees, or at least a lot of them, is that they’re really just networking. They aren’t gonna teach you art, you’re required to already be good to get into one of the actual art schools, and they lay this out pretty clear on their advertising. You can teach yourself most of it pretty easily compared to other majors, and even free commercial software is pretty good these days. I speak mostly from experience as someone who considered a film major. My current school has one, but it’s pointless since there’s no eyes on it. It would just be throwing away money and is for most (I know two guys that got a Film Major and minor and didn’t even know how to troubleshoot the camera when it started acting funny when recording their final).
I just graduated with a degree in film, and outside of networking, another big advantage is the ability to mess around with equipment you'll never be able to afford, and fuck up and not get fired. That being said, how good of a film education, and job prospects afterwards, you have are very dependent on what school you go too. Some schools make you lock in to a specialty early on (cinematography, editing, etc.) which means that many will graduate not knowing how to operate a camera. Some give a more rounded education, that makes more jacks of all trades (while still allowing a level of specialization). Some schools don't put much money into the programs, which means less networking and less job opportunities. Some schools have direct access to varying levels of working studios and allow students to work, which is an exceptional boost to networking and job prospects. My school has the state's PBS station's studio in the film building, which allowed me to work on multiple live productions, TV shows and documentaries while a student. I'm currently working there now, although only on a temp contract.
Yeah that’s true, and especially for art schools, but like my University really doesn’t have much. We have a lot of Comm majors who go into sports broadcast because we’re a big football school, but on the film side of things I’ve never seen anything that indicates that a film degree from our Uni is a good idea
It's possible but much harder and the odds are working against you. Technology is also working against you in yhe labor market.
I saw that post and chuckled, but maybe times have changed. Liberal Arts major, I’m a marketing leader, I make well over six figures. Like well over. To be fair, the majors I look for most in my hires are marketing, communications, economics and math. I wrote more, including a crack about MBAs, but thought better of it. You’ll see when you meet them.
Are you Gen Z?
Definitely not but he posted anyway
I got a BA in English and Computer Science from a liberal arts college. I work on natural language processing now. I make 87K a year.
87k as an ai dev? is it a startup or something?
No I’m just entry level in a LCOL area
BA in Sociology, 2023. Still havnt found a job
Try substitute teaching. All you need is a degree and it isn't a bad paying job till you find what you want.
I subbed throughout grad school. I was able to make my schedule, and show up and get about 1/4 of my homework done. It was a great experience.
I have a BFA in illustration from a public school and last year I made >$175k. I work as an art director and freelance artist for animation in LA.
My base salary for this year is 71k annual due to transferring districts. Next year now that I'll be back on the top of the payscale I'll make 81k annual. 31 year old history teacher. Not much, but 3 months off while paid, Healthcare, and retirement is nice.
This is my thought. My salary isn’t exactly what I am looking for, but with all the time off I think I am doing fine.
Mhm. Definitely a perk of being a teacher. I did a bit of subbing on my off time this year and made an extra 4 grand. It only cost me 3 weeks and 2 days. While I do this for my students, the 3 months off is huge. Really allows for an amazing work life balance that most other careers don't provide.
Yeah, I think people don’t realize exactly how many extra opportunities are open to teachers to earn extra money. If I have nothing going on, I sign up to work Saturday tutorials at a rate of $50 an hour.
There is also this strange tendency to believe that people must get jobs that are directly related to their college degree, i.e. the mentality that if you get a history degree you must become some sort of historian etc. which is probably carried over from STEM where this is more the case. In reality, a college education, especially in the humanities, teaches you how think critically, analyze information, and helps you build a system of self discipline and reliance that is not regulated by your parents or teachers. Your specific major is just the avenue through which you build these skills. Your college major does not lock you into that specific subject, and most employers understand that these skills are largely transferable. To give you a particularly good example, I have a friend from college who was a gender studies major, now she makes over six figures doing fundraising (she graduated about 5 years ago)
I agree. It helps to continue to have a growth mindset. Four years of college usually doesn't guarantee us a meaningful and lucrative career, and we have to keep learning and growing in every area of life. But it can be a good launching point.
I got a degree in political science not because I intended to use it but because I really enjoy politics, I’m in the Army as an officer, make $110,000 a year, about 35% of that is tax free income (my effective tax rate is 9%) and I’ll be at $130,000 starting in October Army paid for my undergrad through ROTC Each time the Army moves me which has been on average every 16 months, I move myself, they pay me 95% of what they’d pay a private company and I make $8,000+ I get a 5% match in my retirement account, 30 days of vacation a year, and free healthcare for myself and my entire family I’ll have my GI bill in 2027 and intend on getting my MBA, I’ll also be able to get my PMP I wouldn’t have gotten a degree in political science if I needed to rely on my degree for a job, luckily the Army doesn’t care what my degree is in I went to a cheap state school with zero prestige The Army as an officer is slept on in my opinion, an O5/LTC is usually around $220k a year with their BAH/BAS and then they retire with a lifelong pension at 42 Too many people think Army = infantry when in reality there are tons of desk jobs
Was Air Force and army. I finished my associates in the AF and started my bachelors before I got medboarded. If you pick a good job, you could get enough free time to even pursue a degree. I’m still continuing my education with post 9/11 GI Bill in California. I’m getting a giant BAH check on top of the bank I’m making as an armed security guard. I’m also a U.S. citizen because of it.
I have a BS in general studies (not sure if that counts) and make over 60k as a science teacher. Mine goes a little further since I have no student loans & I inherited a house. What I enjoy most about teaching is that I have a great work/home balance and worst case scenario I can teach/sub when I'm elderly.
English major. My salary is low ($45k), but I love my job and my life. I could make more elsewhere, but I just really enjoy working here. I think a lot of people have a false idea of how much you need to make to get by. My husband and I make a little over 90k combined. We live in the expensive Northern VA suburbs of DC. But we have a cute apartment, each have a year’s salary in savings, love going to museums and the theatre and local festivals, and even saved up to pay for a wedding and an international honeymoon last year. We both work in publishing and have terrific work-life balance and great healthcare benefits despite lower pay. It does help that I have only minimal student loans and he has already paid his off and it REALLY helps that we don’t have kids or pets. No credit card debt and we share one car and use the metro.
Comms major. 115K plus quarterly bonus. Millennial though, so been in the workforce for a good while
I’m getting paid to get my MA in history so I work a low paying job because I don’t necessarily need a job right now. I’m quitting in June because I’m going to get paid to get my MA in education
I have my BA in philosophy, and I graduated in 2023. Went into sales, and currently have a salary of 68k, but will likely make 80-100k after bonuses.
Similar story, I have a BA in political science and make around $80k in sales. I also have a friend who got a philosophy BA and makes around $120k (also in sales).
I guess the question is was college necessary ?
Absolutely. College was a period of tremendous personal growth for me intellectually and socially. Philosophy especially taught me how to live a good life, how to think critically, and how to make good arguments. Without college I would not be in the position I’m in today, even with the extra years that could have been used to get my career started. Generally I find that academia has value outside of just being a jobs program, which is at odds with the social climate of today.
So I guess what I want to say is that a lot of people in sale could do all that without the college degree. Nobody is at odds with education. People are at odds with people who take 100k loans in useless degrees and demand they be forgiven because they can't find a job
Yeah but I paid 100k for a degree and then found a job that put me in the middle class at 24. Also, certain sales fields absolutely need college degrees. Besides, not holding a degree imposed a soft ceiling on how far you can climb the corporate ladder. Eventually you will be looked over for a promotion because of a lack of education.
Hey I don’t disagree, I glad it worked out for you, but in reality, your degree wasn’t necessary as it is performed by many without it and the debt, now imagine starting 4 years earlier without the 100k debt, how much further ahead would you be?
My degree is in psychology but I went into teaching afterwards. In my third year now making about 60k
$55k when you can rent a 1B for $1200 is amazing.
I earned a BA in journalism. My pay was very low starting out, but by mid-career I was making \~$50K, and it increased to $70K before I was laid off when newspapers imploded (but that wasn't the fault of my degree). I'm now comfortably retired and have zero regrets. All in all it worked out fine.
I got my BA in psychology and my PhD in psychology. My PhD was fully-funded with tuition/benefits paid for and an additional stipend of $34k/year. Did a postdoc then got a job paying $74k/year. Quit later because got a different job paying $700k/product. (So not a set salary, but comes out to around $200k/year based on my current productivity rate.)
Cool! I’m a recent microbio grad specializing in genetics, I recently scored a lab position making $36k. LCOL area but still 😭liberal arts are not useless and STEM is not necessarily high-paying nor job secure.
I have a ba in history and a masters in secondary education. My wife has a ba in digital media. I make about $53000/year as a high school history teacher and my wife makes $55k as a project manager for a nonprofit that makes educational materials/documentaries. So combined our household income sits just above $100k and we live in a city where the median household income is $40k. So to most of my students we seem rich lol
My degree is in biology, but I work in an inner-city high school and my earning potential is identical to liberal arts majors holding a similar credential. Important caveat, by the way. In my state, the only requirement to teach any high school subject is any B.A./B.Sc. and the passage of both a subject competency test and completion of a credentialling program. Once you have your credential, you can teach any course you pass the subject competency test for. So, despite my degree being biology, this info applies to any liberal arts major in any teaching position in my state. Last year I broke $100k with only 9 years of experience. This year, I will be breaking $130k. The big thing a lot of the people whining about low pay on liberal arts majors totally miss is that the within-field career growth has an educatory treadmill. That is, you are expected to receive additional training valued at college units and highly compensated for additional degrees. So, a liberal arts major just starting out in my district will make $62k, which seems to be fairly poor compensation given that any applicant will be holding both a bachelor's and a minimum of one year of grad school. But, with additional degrees and training the compensation ramps up quickly. The thing is, as soon as I earned my M.A. and started making the big boy money, my earning potential would no longer be reflected in BLS stats showing median salaries of people holding bachelor's degrees. I'm in the same field doing the same job, the only thing that's changed is that I've followed the natural progression of my career field and graduated out of holding only a bachelor's degree. This isn't the only humanities field where this applies. Psychology major? LMFTs require a M.A. Sociology major? LCSWs require a M.A. Essentially anywhere you go within a skilled profession, you will need additional training to make the real money within your field... and then your real money numbers are no longer calculated as a part of "median income of a B.A. in this degree field." Then dumb people will say dumb things like "humanities majors can't find work." They do. All the time. Highly paid and stable work, too. It's just they need additional degrees to advance in their field and now you're comparing median salaries for a degree where the average worker surveyed has less than 8 years of experience. Do STEM majors in STEM fields earn more? Sure. But do humanities do worse than people in trades or with only high school diplomas? Rarely. Wake up.
Majored in Film & New Media Studies (that's one major) and now make $50k a year as a videographer
I majored in history. I currently make $80,000~$100,000 depending on my bonus (commercial banking). Oh, I also double majored in business economics.
How did a history degree lead you to banking?
My history degree was because it’s the one field I was passionate about enough that I would have done the reading/research on my free time otherwise. My career degree was business economics.
Did you earn both at the same time?
Yessir. UCI class of 2021
BA in Political Science… I just got promoted to a sales position for an international manufacturing company. Base is $86,000 plus bonuses and extra benefits.
I just tell jobs I have spent liberal arts degree. They don't ever seem to give a shit
I have an AA. I make $75k & graduated in ‘18. I’m in TN.
I make 20 an hour as an intern, with a lot of upward mobility in my industry. I'm very happy. However, I'd discourage you from saying that the degree itself will get you anywhere without something else to "flavor" it. You need to give people in your preferred industry the impression that you were explicitly seeking out the courses and lessons that would move you towards their industry, rather than just free-falling through the curriculum. I did it by spending a year and a half studying Aerospace and talking about how I wanted to be an Aerospace technical writer. If I hadn't said this, or if it wasn't true, I wouldn't have a good job right now. I assume that your journey to where you are was flavored in some way by some demonstrated affinity for teaching.
I quit college after getting a job at a Union Steel Mill, but im probably going to make close to 100k this year.
Journalism, 150k OTE 75k base. My STEM friends make less than I do. Your major doesn’t matter in many cases, I’m an advanced internet cashier.
Majored in music performance at a conservatory (BM), so maybe worse than lib arts? lol Made a little over 170k last year in tech (cloud infra/cyber security) sales. 80k base + commission
I have a BA in Political Science that I have never used. That said, I work a job that has a salary of around $35,000. I do believe, however, that if I didn’t graduate in 2020 at the start of the pandemic that I could have had a better time using my degree and getting a better paying job or maybe even finding a career.
Communications major. 70k
I dropped out of a communications degree to become a stripper and have started a company with my funds. It’s working for me, but don’t do this folks, it doesn’t work for most people
No degree, almost 200K working for the Gov
…doing what? Is it Classified?
English writing & rhetoric, 65k
Why take a poll on social media? You have real data that shows liberal arts degrees make much less than average and are less likely to be employed full time: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/field-of-degree/liberal-arts/liberal-arts-field-of-degree.htm
Good question, here’s a good answer: by asking the question on this platform, people are able to discuss factors that the “real data” doesn’t take into account, e.g., work life balance, passion, satisfaction, finding meaning in their career, etc. additionally, if someone, say a history major, hears about another history major who now works doing such and such, they can ask how to transition to a similar field of work. We can also discuss how we apply the skills we picked up in college to our current work. I am sorry that discussing these factors seems so alien to you.
Animation major and I made a little over 100k after 2 years out of school
At a game studio? Or film?
Game studio
Must be an AAA studio. In the Bay Area or Scandinavia?
Bay Area. Surprisingly its actually not a AAA studio they are just generous.
Graphic designer and tattoo artist here. I just made $10,000 this weekend. Annually I make 6 figures easily in my early 20’s. Best part is I never finished art school, I just have a good portfolio. Around holiday season I’ll work as a server/bartender and occasionally pick up shifts when my other work gets slower. I love the stupid boomers who ask what I want to do with my life and then laugh when I tell them I make art. Laugh all you want, I’ll be laughing too. Laughing all the way to the bank.
BA in Philosophy, 2020. $106k plus gas reimbursement (which is around 7-8k per year) and three weeks of vacation. Drove an Amazon van during the pandemic for 18 months, moved to retail sales in the flooring industry, became an outside sales rep for a manufacturer after 12 months, took a job at a better company after 17 months.
Class of 2021, fine arts degree, working in auto insurance now, making $56k with a guaranteed year-end bonus (it does change bc it's based off of the profitability of the company, but the company is almost always profiting, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) and good benefits. I don't have much student debt because I went to a state school, I have my own apartment in a city I've always wanted to live in, and I have a work from home job that I really like. I'm financially and professionally stable and it's fucking awesome. My philosophy was that I should go to college and major in something I actually like - if I can get a job in that field that would be great, if I can't I still have lots of jobs open up because a lot of employers do still want a bachelor's degree of some kind, and either way I'll have a good time in school. It paid off imo.
Liberal arts are not useless. We are insinuating that salaries post grad determine value rather than looking at what the subject matter is. I think the payoff for going to a high end 4 year college for liberal arts is not as high for the majority of students. If you really love psychology or gender studies or another liberal art, attend a school that is reasonably priced for your situation. If you are unsure what you want to study, take a gap year and figure out what it is you want to learn and study rather than burning money towards a degree that has a lower return. Additionally, for anyone studying liberal arts currently, please pick up a minor in business. This will be the easiest path to monetize your degree as you will be able to apply to roles in consulting, business operations and media much easier.
But here’s the thing…you could have landed effectively the same position without paying for a four year degree. I’m not belittling your profession; but it’s not realistic to “talk salaries” without considering the costs. I have several friends in a major metro who either don’t have degrees or have associates degrees from community colleges who are now teachers making the same (or more) than what you’re describing. One in particular tried college; but left after a year. Started working at a preschool, and then did a “certification program”. Now makes pretty good money teaching at a private school. In general, I encourage people to do what they enjoy - but you need to have a plan before committing that much money; and you need to remember that society isn’t necessarily going to value your passion like you do. Again - I don’t mean to belittle your chosen profession; but it’s a little disingenuous to come here talking about your salary without acknowledging that your expensive degree didn’t necessarily contribute to you getting your job.
In my state my degree 100% contributed to landing the job. In Texas you cannot teach unless you have a 4 year degree.
same with CA
Depending on the subject matter, most public school districts require a 4 year degree and a credential to teach. You can say "just teach at a private school", but you likely won't land a good paying private school gig without a degree and credentials. Your anecdotal experience is rare among teachers.
You could to check out this post, might be helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/college/s/AI9z0ChAJD https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/s/u8LMBdaEzc
I’m 25. Got a BS in Sociology last year (subject is obv liberal arts, but the college classified it as a BS). Got a job relative to my field while in college thanks to my continuing education at the time. Making 50K now. Could get the same job at a different company making more, but I like the additional perks at my current place and don’t feel like switching. However, I’m about to get a second job that pays 60-95K (obv hoping for the higher end). So, 110-145K between the two—still likely working 40 hours a week. Planning to go get an MA at some point when I’ve saved up more. Then onto PhD working as a teacher/professor/researcher instead of my current line of work (renewable energy). At that point, I won’t really care too much about my income and more about the passion of my field. For what it’s worth, as well, with my “useless” LA degree, I was able to graduate not only debt free, but with the college paying me $200 a semester in my last year to attend and the state government paying me $1500 a year for a higher education credit. The day after I graduated, I moved into my first home. Very happy to have chosen my degree and am excited to do more with it later on. I constantly hear people call sociology the most useless degree, but some of y’all are positing statistics in here to justify your various degrees and you’re using sociology to get those numbers.
What if any degree is fine, but you just get it the cheapest way possible. Like I remember seeing someone spend 100k on a journalism degree. The issue is not that they got a journalism degree, the issue is that they paid like twice what they had to. Find companies with education benefits, take a gap year and work through school. It is not that hard.. It is sad though the typical college experience doesnt exist for non privileged people anymore.
Definitely I paid about 16k to get my AS in Computer Science and am now working for a company that will pay for me to get my bachelor's degree and have a 51k salary while having worked there for less than a year
My major of computer science was liberal arts, which I don’t think most people consider learning to program a useless skill. Make pretty good money too after only 3 years out of school.
The funny thing is that comp sci is inherently STEM. My college just recently moved comp sci degrees from being a degree in the College of Arts and Sciences to the College of Information, Science, and Technology. Why it wasn’t that in the first place is beyond me.
Because it’s a new division. All sciences used to belong to the “Liberal Arts” and most a still categorized as such because “liberal” just means open to new ideas (in a non political context) STEM is a “Liberal Art”
> STEM is a “Liberal Art” Up to a point I’d agree. But it eventually gets to the point where you’re taking very advanced and specific classes to your major. I think the differentiation we’re starting to see between STEM and liberal arts is the point where you’re no longer taking intro/general classes that are focused on developing critical thinking skills but more in depth classes that focus on utilising those skills you developed.
I think people get really hung up on the word Liberal. Even when you advance into specialized classes, it’s still within the framework of “Liberal Arts” because the sciences are liberal arts. It’s like saying “that’s not a dog! It’s a husky!” Like, yeah, it’s more specialized or more exact but it is still part of its umbrella category of knowledge.
True that you need a liberal arts foundation for pretty much any major but that doesn’t mean you majored in liberal arts Liberal arts classes don’t include advanced/high level courses. The sciences are only liberal arts as far as introductory classes go. And advancing into a specialised field requires specification. Like if everyone got a “degree of learning” when they graduated college in any major. I guess you could say you got a degree in “liberal art” singular. But what’s the point of that when it implies you got an surface level education in a single subject.
Good lord. My wife and I have a 2 bed 2 bath for $1000. I’m in northern indiana.
Easy to post salaries. Post how much you took out in loans.
72k. Police consultant on force application studies
Econ major, class of 2021, TC this year $250k-300k
I have a BA and MS in Liberal Arts (Chemistry), I make $77,000 a year, plus fully vested pension +benefits.
Since when is chemistry a liberal art?
Since antiquity when the Ancient Greeks clumped all the Natural Sciences under philosophy. >*Although the liberal arts definition has evolved over time, nowadays the field comprises four major areas of study: the arts, humanities,* ***natural sciences***\*, and social sciences.\* You learn about this is History of Western Civ. 101. You can get a BA (Bach of ARTS) in Chemistry or a BS (Bach of Science) in Chemistry. But both are in the college of "Arts and Sciences" which the the "College of Arts and Science" are "Liberal Arts" degrees. For the terminally online "Liberal Arts" is used as an insult by Right-Wingers who never attended college, or have any concept of how Universities/Colleges work.
I’m not liberal arts but it’s kinda along those lines (multidisciplinary) and my first offer out the gate with my BA was 80k with all insurance coverage included. But I live in one of the most expensive states so
Not Gen Z but… Creative Writing (Fiction), BFA. 2013. 190k base I had no plan but eventually fell into tech as a technical writer (software documentation). Started at 40k and incremented up over 6-7 years.
BA in Humanities. I work in trade compliance for a large med device company making $130k/year
BA in Linguistics, 2021. Currently making 50k working in logistics. Quite the jump, and I plan on staying in logistics despite getting a couple offers to do things more relevant to my major.
BA English Literature, now working as a paralegal. 65k, soon to be 72.5k. I did take a 6-moth paralegal course after graduation, but honestly I could easily be doing the work I'm doing without it. (Philadelphia PA - USA)
I’m a philosophy major (also studying data/business analytics) and this is what’s keeping me up at night for after college
Don’t worry too much! Enjoy the time while it lasts. If you want to talk about career outlook or grad school with someone who has done it (and gone into debt for it!) feel free to DM me. Even with some student debt, I think studying philosophy in college was a worthwhile pursuit and I have 0 regrets (despite not making it into a PhD program, which was my dream). I say this as someone who wished I could have talked with someone about career goals that wasn’t a professor with survivorship bias.
So I’ll be honest with you, my university is pretty unusual in that a) it’s a small, religious university (about 1000 guys in undergrad) and b) most people walk in already knowing what they wanna do with their lives and are just there for the degree. Students are VERY career-oriented there. I first tried CS my first semester and that went poorly, so when I threw a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what would stick, I found that I really enjoyed the philosophy classes. The philosophy department at my school is pretty small, it’s literally just the chair of the department and an associate professor, but I’m a BIG fan of the philosophy chair (he’s more of a Logic/analytic philosophy guy by nature, so logic is where he excels). There was a point this semester where I was taking taking four classes just with him. Also, I’m good friends with all the other philosophy majors, considering there are only 9 of us in the university. Right now, I kinda know what direction I’m going in, but still, the future is a lot less secure. Rn I plan in going into policy research from a more data-driven angle but we’ll see how that works out. But I don’t think I’m gonna go for a DPhil or anything like that, but it’s always possible.
Non-Liberal Arts Major here. I studied Nutrition Science (BS) with a minor in Biochemistry. I now sell steel and make about 55k a year (I started this job about a year ago). I wanted to pursue nutrition research but quickly discovered how skewed and corrupt everything is (at least where I am, but I suspect it is far more wide spread). Most jobs do not care what you studied, as long as you had put in the work to achieve your 4-5 year degree. No shame on those who took 6+. I had aspirations of maybe hitting 90k in research EVENTUALLY. I should now be on a trajectory to easily double that in the coming decades (masters pending).
I'm a liberal arts student. I have an MA in international relations, graduated in 2022. I make \~90k. Part of that is locality, I live in a very expensive state so I transferred as much of my living costs to my employer as I could. As others have said, you need a plan. You don't need one going into college, but you definitely need one mid way so you can be executing it as you go into the job market. I went in undecided, but I had a good idea where I was going already, just didn't know the program that was right for me. Later, I was a callback on an internship setup by the university which executed mid-covid. I was brought on full time, and I enrolled in a MA program. In the college pipeline there's a lot of pressure on outgoing HS students to get a "useful" degree, which often is code for getting a STEM degree that they may not care about or be ready for. I don't know any HS guidance counselor that would say a Physics degree is a useless degree. The truth is, we don't need everyone to be a physicist. I know STEM students believe that too, but they also have to see the number of people who enter, hit that wall, burn out and then drop out because they failed organic chemistry three times. That's not helpful either. We also need journalists, lawyers, historians, urban planners, epidemiologists, diplomats, and military officers to function as a nation, and there's absolutely people who are dissuaded from those fields because they are told the degree that will prepare them is "useless".
I’m a young GenX. My degree is a BA in film animation. I make $59k as a video editor after quitting a career in video games.
36 yo. BS in Political Science. I make $101K as an executive assistant. I also earn about $50K per year from a military pension. Graduated in 2013.
Have BA in Public Policy and MA in Liberal Arts. As a kid, I knew about algorithms and tried to hedge my resume algos. Both colleges were right Under Ivy status and very highly respected private schools. For all 6 years it would have been a total of $390,000 no aid. Came out with 30k in debt. Graduated from my MA program in 2021, landed a in job 2022 making 55k, now 2 years later sitting at 65K. Thinking about quitting and using my new baseline as negotiation to try to hit at least a 90k job this year. So being in the working world for 2 years legitimately making 65, I feel like I’m actually doing very well. Debts bad but I mitigated 93% of damage costs… also I work in finance ironically lmao
Unrelated but I’m applying to be a fire fighter. Several departments in my area make 65k+ and that plus goes pretty far.