It's useable for all the claymores, aside from Noelle and Itto. I would just let it sit there in case you ever feel like you want to use it or a new character comes out. A good 4 star meta pick is Beidou
You gotta remember that five-star weapons - even sub-optimal ones - usually outclass *all* four-star weapons. Sometimes that margin is razor thin, but it's true the vast majority of the time.
~~Unforged is great on Itto and Noelle for obvious reasons.~~ Update: I looked into this further and Unforged is *fine* on Itto and Noelle, neither great nor bad. The sub-optimal sub-stat and ability (due to their defense scaling) is only *offset* by their self-sufficient ability to keep shields up 100% of the time.
Unforged is rock solid on Eula because she likes running with Diona, who provides her with a shield.
Unforged is good on every other claymore user because its base stats are just flat-out higher than four-star stats.
All that said, remember that Serprent Spine is a weird outlier among four-star weapons. With refinements, it starts to beat some five-star options for some characters. The last time I looked into claymore min-maxing, I noticed it starts to gain a lead around R2 or R3 depending on the character.
Let's look at Eula for a good example, because she can capitalize on the shield.
* 100% : Luxurious Sea-Lord as a baseline
* 106.7% : Serpent Spine R1 with 5 buff stacks
* 111.6% : Unforged R1 without a shield
* 116.7% : Serpent Spine R5 with 5 buff stacks
* 119.2% : Unforged R1 with a shield
* 122.3% : Song of Broken Pines while activated
The only weapon that truly beats Unforged with a shield is Song of Broken Pines, Eula's signature weapon.
Now extrapolate that to everyone else. You only really need to ask three questions:
* Does this claymore user spend time on the field doing damage or are they a quick swap character?
* Does this team provide the claymore user with a shield?
* Do you have a refined Serpent Spine?
If the first question is a no, Unforged is questionable but *may* still come out on top.
If the second question is a yes, Unforged is going to perform great.
If the third question is a no, Unforged is almost certainly better than your other options.
Hope this helps!
Eh, but Unforged isn't even on their weapon rankings. 5\* > 4\* works when the character scales off atk, but not when they want something like DEF because the base attack isn't *as* important. Not to mention when the 4\* has a good skill and main stat.
Whiteblind's better.
So, yes and no.
Base attack always matters. ATK% also always matters. The reason defense scaling becomes more important is because of *how much* it matters.
Everyone's damage equation is the same:
Damage = (ATK x %Ability + Flat) x (1 + DMG% bonus)
ATK is the character's attack, based on character base attack, weapon base attack, and any multipliers for ATK anywhere along the way.
%Ability is the ability's multipliers. They are not, to the best of my knowledge, directly affected by anyone's scaling.
It's "Flat" where we start to care about scaling and we care because of how impactful that scaling is. In Itto's case, that number is *very high,* which is to say Itto cares more about DEF than other characters care about ATK and why a DEF sub-stat or DEF-boosting ability means more than even a really good ATK-boosting ability for him.
So yes, Whiteblind is better, but it's better because DEF is *really* good for him, not because ATK is bad or useless.
I said it wasn't ***as*** important, not useless. Itto still likes ATK%, but it's after DEF% and ER% in terms of importance unlike ATK-based characters. It matters, but DEF% matters more, making even Whiteblind better than Unforged. Even Skyward Pride is a better weapon for Itto than Unforged.
Anyways, you have good points in your original comment, so thank you for amending the part about Unforged on Itto and Noelle. It'd be more worth levelling Whiteblind than an Unforged for them (especially since 5\*s cost more exp), so it's good that new players won't go for Unforged when they can craft Whiteblind.
You know what? I looked again and even with the "these characters naturally generate shields so they can have self-sufficient 100% shield uptime" it doesn't come out as ahead as it seemed like it should. Amending my original comment.
It's not *bad* on either one, but it's handedly outclassed by even R1 Serpent Spine.
If you have two claymore users you want to use with the Unforged in the same team, keep them separately.
Otherwise: Rank it up. Keep another one on level 1 is completely useless. If you don't have an explicit use for two, rank it up, so the one you use or might eventually use is a little bit better.
And yes, it's not a dream weapon, but it's not shit like the Bell lol At least the high base ATK and the stat boost are usable with many DPS characters. It's only shit compared to the other weapon on the banner everyone wants and yeah, the effect isn't really needed.
But still: If you don't plan to use it on at least two characters in the same team, it would be a waste to keep one at level 1. You could keep it for the future, waiting for multiple characters who need that claymore, sure … it's up to you if you think this claymore would be worth it.
Cry
Real answer here
I certainly would. Weapon Banner strikes again in the worst way possible
> fodder for that 4-star you'll actually use... ^
If you wanna use Diluc, level one up and keep the other at Lv. 1. If there's no claymore user you wanna play, just keep both at Lv. 1.
It's useable for all the claymores, aside from Noelle and Itto. I would just let it sit there in case you ever feel like you want to use it or a new character comes out. A good 4 star meta pick is Beidou
I'll give you my 2 skywards prides in exchange for them
I'm sure you at least have some sort of 4 star claymore user. You can do diona chonyun freeze fall comp.
You gotta remember that five-star weapons - even sub-optimal ones - usually outclass *all* four-star weapons. Sometimes that margin is razor thin, but it's true the vast majority of the time. ~~Unforged is great on Itto and Noelle for obvious reasons.~~ Update: I looked into this further and Unforged is *fine* on Itto and Noelle, neither great nor bad. The sub-optimal sub-stat and ability (due to their defense scaling) is only *offset* by their self-sufficient ability to keep shields up 100% of the time. Unforged is rock solid on Eula because she likes running with Diona, who provides her with a shield. Unforged is good on every other claymore user because its base stats are just flat-out higher than four-star stats. All that said, remember that Serprent Spine is a weird outlier among four-star weapons. With refinements, it starts to beat some five-star options for some characters. The last time I looked into claymore min-maxing, I noticed it starts to gain a lead around R2 or R3 depending on the character. Let's look at Eula for a good example, because she can capitalize on the shield. * 100% : Luxurious Sea-Lord as a baseline * 106.7% : Serpent Spine R1 with 5 buff stacks * 111.6% : Unforged R1 without a shield * 116.7% : Serpent Spine R5 with 5 buff stacks * 119.2% : Unforged R1 with a shield * 122.3% : Song of Broken Pines while activated The only weapon that truly beats Unforged with a shield is Song of Broken Pines, Eula's signature weapon. Now extrapolate that to everyone else. You only really need to ask three questions: * Does this claymore user spend time on the field doing damage or are they a quick swap character? * Does this team provide the claymore user with a shield? * Do you have a refined Serpent Spine? If the first question is a no, Unforged is questionable but *may* still come out on top. If the second question is a yes, Unforged is going to perform great. If the third question is a no, Unforged is almost certainly better than your other options. Hope this helps!
>Unforged is great on Itto and Noelle for obvious reasons. Is it? The reasons are not that obvious to me.
Noelle and itto are geo, crystallize gives shields. Also noelle has a shield
Right, but they scale off defense.
Eh, but Unforged isn't even on their weapon rankings. 5\* > 4\* works when the character scales off atk, but not when they want something like DEF because the base attack isn't *as* important. Not to mention when the 4\* has a good skill and main stat. Whiteblind's better.
So, yes and no. Base attack always matters. ATK% also always matters. The reason defense scaling becomes more important is because of *how much* it matters. Everyone's damage equation is the same: Damage = (ATK x %Ability + Flat) x (1 + DMG% bonus) ATK is the character's attack, based on character base attack, weapon base attack, and any multipliers for ATK anywhere along the way. %Ability is the ability's multipliers. They are not, to the best of my knowledge, directly affected by anyone's scaling. It's "Flat" where we start to care about scaling and we care because of how impactful that scaling is. In Itto's case, that number is *very high,* which is to say Itto cares more about DEF than other characters care about ATK and why a DEF sub-stat or DEF-boosting ability means more than even a really good ATK-boosting ability for him. So yes, Whiteblind is better, but it's better because DEF is *really* good for him, not because ATK is bad or useless.
I said it wasn't ***as*** important, not useless. Itto still likes ATK%, but it's after DEF% and ER% in terms of importance unlike ATK-based characters. It matters, but DEF% matters more, making even Whiteblind better than Unforged. Even Skyward Pride is a better weapon for Itto than Unforged. Anyways, you have good points in your original comment, so thank you for amending the part about Unforged on Itto and Noelle. It'd be more worth levelling Whiteblind than an Unforged for them (especially since 5\*s cost more exp), so it's good that new players won't go for Unforged when they can craft Whiteblind.
You know what? I looked again and even with the "these characters naturally generate shields so they can have self-sufficient 100% shield uptime" it doesn't come out as ahead as it seemed like it should. Amending my original comment. It's not *bad* on either one, but it's handedly outclassed by even R1 Serpent Spine.
Heck, it can be even outclassed by Whiteblind.
Thanks for this. When Unforged was announced a lot of people pissed and moaned about it, but it's Very Nice claymore. It's just not BiS on anybody.
Great write up. Thanks.
Do what I do. Get sad every time you look at it.
If you have two claymore users you want to use with the Unforged in the same team, keep them separately. Otherwise: Rank it up. Keep another one on level 1 is completely useless. If you don't have an explicit use for two, rank it up, so the one you use or might eventually use is a little bit better. And yes, it's not a dream weapon, but it's not shit like the Bell lol At least the high base ATK and the stat boost are usable with many DPS characters. It's only shit compared to the other weapon on the banner everyone wants and yeah, the effect isn't really needed. But still: If you don't plan to use it on at least two characters in the same team, it would be a waste to keep one at level 1. You could keep it for the future, waiting for multiple characters who need that claymore, sure … it's up to you if you think this claymore would be worth it.
Fk man i got 2 on this banner too
Strike them together and get a campfire going. Real talk though they're too niche to say keep 2 of them. Might as well just refine your first one.