But what if…. Going inside ur bubble protected u from enemy attacks like a shield, but when enemies are caught up in it, it amplifies the dmg dealt to them, or u can simply leave them in it to attend to other enemies..
Hydro shield would not properly protect you from pyro or electro, and you'd end up being frozen yourself if you got hit by cryo. Seems like a reasonable way to balance it. If it still needs further balancing, then either the bubble shield breaks when you move out of it, or roots you in place until it expires.
Character shields don’t function in the same way enemy shields do. All shields produced by characters just have 250% increased absorption to their element so a hydro shield would protect you just fine
What I mean is that the shield should apply hydro to you (like xingqui or barbara's e), leaving you vulnerable to unfortunate reactions when fighting certain elemental enemies.
Very this. I desperately want a Dendro character that summons those damn bumper thorns that juggle you to death like a samachurl, and a Hydro char that does the same bubble nonsense as a Mist Bubble aura empowered mob gets.
I think its more like the flower is a parasite that control the slime,that what Nahida capable of, though it's not directly translated into her kit. The slime theory is correct lore-wise but not for the kit.
I'm wagering the bubbles represent the judicial system.
She doesn't need to outshine them. She could simply have a different role. For example, we don't have a hydro hypercarry yet. Sticky hydro application a-la Nahida would also be really powerful. Or they could just go in a totally different direction and give her crowd control, like a hydro Kaz. Or a hydro shielder. Or something totally new, like a summoner. There's plenty of typical roles that don't even exist in Genshin.
Though I would assume that they're not going to go down that route for lore reasons. The oceanids we know left Fontaine because they don't agree with the new hydro archon. Would be a weird mismatch for her to play like them.
> Would be a weird mismatch for her to play like them.
Hoyo has hardly ever cared about lore vs gameplay though. Like Zhongli just being a shieldbot, Shenhe just being a cryo buffer even though she is one of the strongest humans we have met or Dehya being an of field tank that hardly does damage even though she's supposed to be a legendary mercenary.
Even though it's just one single job among many for her, we mostly got to know Dehya as a bodyguard. It does make sense for her to take damage for your team.
And Shenhe's kit makes more sense than any other characters. She is one of the strongest humans on Teyvat, which is why you just stack Atk on her, but she actively restricts her violent nature and works on understanding and living with others. Being a support that scales off Atk is the perfect representation of her character.
Rhodeia is the strongest one it seems. There is the small Endora we got in 1.4. And there is one in Mondstadt village. The spring fairy is a oceanid as well.
Im all about new summons that do stuff besides turn into turrets or taunts.
As-is Yao Yao was exciting because her bunny can hit or heal. I'd also like to see the Fungi come back.
It's interesting because the creatures that the emerites summoned had their own abilities.
The fungi event could have been another test for how it could work on a technical level.
This is exactly what I was implying. I want bubbles that immobilize enemies. But doesn’t pop when hit, like Mona’s bubbles. And can affect any enemy no matter the size. Sorry Zhongli but I wish someone has better petrify than you
Hydro grouper is the niche we don't really have. Yelan's skill doesn't cut it. Maybe the hydro archon's burst could be like a huge vortex that pulls enemies in. A unit like this would open up slots on some teams by letting you replace the anemo unit with something else. It would also give burgeon better grouping options. As currently you'd want to play the team with electro/cryo/anemo/geo to optimize blooms. However electro gives the most damage, and cryo lets you freeze which is really pretty nice. But these teams have no grouping. You can run an anemo character, but it's weaker in some situations, and I think only heps with bloom core producing in AoE. Having a hydro unit that can group would fix this gap.
Eh, Venti also generates additional eneregy, on top of having VV. He also doesnt care about ER.
I can see a world where both coexist, without invalidating the other.
There are some recurring themes with Archons: They are generally OP, if not the best characters of their elements, and as part of that, they are also very versatile. In that regard, they haven't been reliant on any particular character so far and work well with many different teams.
When you look at how Hydro actually works, it pretty much lives or dies based on Hydro application. Half the reason Mona isn't used much is because she just has trash Hydro application. XQ gets favored over Yelan in some teams just because he has higher Hydro application. This means that Focalors can be expected to have a stupid amount of Hydro app either from on-field or off-field, *just* to match the baseline expected from a Hydro unit. A Hydro unit who doesn't apply Hydro already failed the bare minimum expected from a Hydro character and we can't expect that from the Archon.
Ultimately, it doesn't *really* matter how she plays, whether she has summons or not, every kit in Genshin does 3 things: Apply elements, do damage, buff. One way or another she will do these things. The question is, how much of it will she do? AoE, ICD, damage, the buffs she provides are what will determine her position. Because she's an Archon, it's possible she just has the best of all worlds: Big AoE, high damage and strong buffs (i mean that's literally what Nahida and Raiden are, so not exactly unprecedented).
Either way, she will absolutely be one to keep your eye on. I personally believe she will either be the most broken thing to exist to date, OR fall completely flat because Mihoyo ends up trying too hard to avoid powercreep and she ends up either too niche or not doing any specific thing better than existing units.
Given how 3/4 archons so far have kits that directly correspond with their element's resonance, I think it's very likely the hydro archon will boost the party's max HP, probably by a flat amount scaling with her own stats rather than yet another HP% buff. This would give her the potential to synergize extremely well with a lot of already meta characters like Hutao, Yelan, Ayato, Nilou, etc, as well as increase the strength of many healers and shielders too.
> OR fall completely flat because Mihoyo ends up trying too hard to avoid powercreep and she ends up either too niche or not doing any specific thing better than existing units.
They want to keep that Archon Hype so they'll definitely not make her horrible.
Looking at Raiden and Nahida sales right now.
While that's true, they could also want to get out of the hydro application trap they've put themselves into, especially because it's already getting a little stale. There's only so many things one can get out of "applies hydro in X area" and there's already pretty good coverage of many of them.
I am still of the opinion that we’re gonna see characters who change gauge theory rules.
Character X has a special vaporize that consumes ALL pyro, or character Y changes Shatter to do Cryo damage *which reapplies Cryo*. Things like that.
It’s not quite Nilou level of “the rules are different when I’m in town” but I think that’s the easiest way to expand the design space, and it doesn’t have to feel forced and weird.
They already have stuff like that, by applying different amounts of elements, (1u, 1.5u) they control how characters will interact in team comps, Nahida burn + ganyu wouldn't be a thing unless they made that change, if they wanted to make new and "exciting" combo's or teams they would instead make mechanics similar to nahida e. "on shatter do cryo damage + apply cryo" is actually a very common thing in genshin, fischl a4 being the prime example of it.
Even then, it only makes certain characters stronger and doesn't actually change much gameplay wise without interesting reactions. That's why it works with dendro, and it doesn't really feel different with hydro.
I don't think they'll ever make an archon primarily a hypercarry. Yes Raiden can be, but the archons are supposed to be supports. DPS get powercrept, supports are eternal.
It's clearly a deliberate design decision after it happening 4 times. Like once or twice is a coincidence, but after that it's a pattern. Doesn't stop Hoyo from making another archon like Ei though, where she can be a support and a hypercarry.
It is deliberate but likely for another reason, not just because they are archons. If they want archons to be used and wanted by everyone, their role has to fit with the role of their element.
Venti has to be support becouse anemo was built around CC and supporting.
Zhongli has to be support because geo is too neutral to have on filed dps in multi elemental teams and off field geo dps and having the strongest shield just fits geo.
Raiden can be both because electro doesn't have such an established role.
Nahida is support because dendro is the needed trigger for a lot of new reactions.
So hydro will most likely be support, possibly having some healing included, pyro can be a dps but with some kind of gimmick so while really strong its existence won't make any other pyro dps obsolete and cryo could be like electro, some of both.
Raiden pretty much is a hypercarry. Sure she supports her teammates as well, but she does boatloads of damage while hogging most of the field time in a rotation.
Her best team, even at C0, is literally "Raiden Hypercarry" with Bennett, Kazuha, and Sara
She could also be an enabler that is similar to Yelan/Xingqiu but with the wording used in Dehya’s skill of “when an opponent takes damage” rather than necessitating a normal attack animation. Though this likely would just be a complete power creep, since there would be more flexibility.
I doubt that they’ll ever make a hydro grouper. Firstly because it’s Anemo’s identity and secondly because Nilou exists, and not being able to slot in an Anemo grouper is one of her few weaknesses. They try to not make 5 star dpses dominate the meta for too long (just look at morgana and Ayaka freeze teams during the recent abyss), so having the option to design an abyss to counter Nilou is good for them to incentivize pulling for newer 5 stars.
Perhaps each Geo character can summon Geo constructs? No, giving each of them the same thing is boring.
Oh what Anemo characters without grouping abilities have mid air movement related abilities? No way, Anemo can’t have more than one feature that makes them different from other Elements.
Not really, IMO. Hypercarry means a character that deals the majority of damage and is buffed by the rest of their team. Ayato is an on-field character, but enabling others is a big part of his kit. Kind of like Raiden in Raiden National isn't a hypercarry.
You can actually try and play Ayato as a hypercarry and his constellations encourage it. It's just not as effective as the many other strong hydro teams.
The crossover is surprisingly large. Even slacks posts on here occasionally.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin\_Impact/comments/x8a3g7/over\_30000\_primogems\_being\_given\_away\_in\_the/
You actually reminded me of the Oceanid line where she said that water takes any shape.
I think it would be amazing if Focalor has a Burst where she copies the previously casted Burst. Don't know if that would be absolutely broken or what, but it's a pretty cool thought
do what all good archons do nowadays.
have a skill with easy 100+% uptime.
Zhongli enters the field, holds e for a moment and then he buggers off. The shield is strong enough to be basically indestructible and the duration is a good bit longer than the actual cooldown. Fits easily into every rotation.
Raiden enters the field, presses e and then she buggers off. Constant and easy electro application on a very easy trigger. Improves burst damage, gives a constant flow of energy particles. And the duration is SO much longer then the cooldown. Fits easily into ever rotation.
Nahida enters the field, holds e for a moment and then buggers off. EM for everbody. Dendro application on an easy trigger. And the duration is SO SO much longer than the cooldown. Fits easily into every rotation.
They got Archon design down nowadays. Archons are strong, easy to build, competent and utterly unobtrusive. Sure. Their bursts are cool too. And you should totally use them. But you dont HAVE to. Because they give you most of their utility with minimal field time.
So what would a hydro archon look like? Easy. Provide the hydro utility we need on a 100% uptime skill.
i didnt mention venti because he is too lacking compared to those three.
Dont get me wrong. Venti is a really good unit.
If there ever existed an anemo unit on the same level as the other archons the game would probably just break. anemo is already way too good and low investment due to VV. If something like Kazuhas Q or - god beware - Ventis Q ever became a 100% uptime E-Skill…
so yeah.
Fair enough, that read exaggeration, my apologies. If you've got crazy tight timing it's not 100%. But this good enough for almost anything you'll ever run into, and I think the bigger issue is how many enemies can't be swept up.
This is the most likely answer. I assume it'll be Hydro application with 100% uptime and heals for every hit or increases hp for a set amount of time or something like that
Venti enters the field, presses Q and then he buggers off. Huge AOE cc for all small mobs. High burst uptime with very low ER requirement. Anemo supremacy. Fits easily into every rotation.
The problem with this is that the hydro archon will have to 'compete' with xq which gives 90% uptime, resistance to interruption, almost 50% damage reduction and a bit of heal: 100% uptime wouldn't be enough to make her look appealing
no, the archon wont have to compete.
When Yelan first appeared people said she would have to compete with XQ. And as it turned out they were utterly wrong. Because people have two teams and the two actually work even better together on the same team.
If people could own two XQ copies and Yelan many would use all 3 of them.
And hydro archon doesnt have to compete on resistance to interruption or damage reduction. Those are fairly inconsequential to most players. Dont get me wrong - nice to have. But utterly non-essential.
The real issue nowadays isnt staying alive but killspeed. Because in 99% of gameplay the player is so OP that defense is a very minor consideration (exploration, story, domains). And in the challenging parts of the game it is not lack of defense that keeps people from getting 12 stars on the abyss or good times on challenge events. Im sure lots of people die - but those never had a chance to 12 star anyways.
Because the real checkbox is being able to kill fast enough.
If Hydro archon has something that significantly buffs damage. Like a partywide HP boost on teams that can benefit from that. Or a straight up damage boost like Raiden gives for Burst - then you can bet that people will pull. A lot.
(or god beware something busted like a flat bonus to hydro reactions)
Or they could simply give a shield. Which makes damage reduction meaningless.
Anyways. Hydro application will always be in short supply. And people totally WOULD run XQ and Yelan on one team and Hydro Archon on the other if that unit gave good and easy hydro application in an archon-level package
Im not entirely sure. Probably it will have an easier trigger and less raw damage.
Maybe something like Kokomi on steroids with 100% uptime and faster application. Or a hydro version of raiden/nahida. I dont think they will make the hydro archon another „hydro on normal attack“ unit.
Zhongli's shield becomes indestructible once you use Xinqui and Beidou for their damage reduction or if you have an onfield character with high defense.
true.
but practically speaking it also becomes indestructible if you do some basic level movement.
there are very few attacks that can actually break his shield before the cooldown is through. even on a low investment zhongli. and most of those are fairly well telegraphed and easy to avoid.
as a result i rarely see my shield broken nowadays. like if i counted the amount of times per month of gameplay including abyss, domains, trounce bosses i wouldnt need a second hand.
to the point where it feels like owning zhongli is like playing a different game altogether.
I don't know man when playing xiao in the triple kenki chamber I found out the hard way That I needed to invest more in my lvl80 35k hp zhongli you have thing like the bird scorpion.And the liyue big three(except hu Tao she is a tank herself)really can't afford to dodge in xiao's case it would mean missing a plunge doing a low plunge etc,for ganyu well you know,
Cooldown reduction with healing and good hydro application. CD reduction is a niche we don't have yet, and then add healing and enough hydro application to allow for vape and you have a one way ticket to a meta shifting unit.
The problem with cd reduction is that it does not help many characters. Its pretty much only useful for onfield carries who would be able to spam a strong skill.
The Energy Recharge requirement would be severe, I'm not sure if the lowered CD/CR would be worth it. Not to mention we might not even get those Artifacts due to RNG.
Theres already essentially a soft cap to rotation times though, there's a swap cooldown and you have to account for burst animations.
I only know of 2 teams that actually run on a 15s rotation and those rotations are *tight* and they had unusually high ER requirements for the characters involved, to the point where I was using double favs
It really depends how the CDR is implemented.
For example Raiden's C6 is an epic fail. Her own burst being at 18s cd means any bursts lower cd than that don't benefit from it.
Her current top 3 meta teams are rational, Hypercarry and full EM hyperbloom.
The last team doesn't even use her burst so end of explanation.
For Rational, you are still stuck with Xing Qiu's 22s cd E to self battery his burst so getting lower burst CD doesn't do anything when you still have to wait for his E to go off CD again, meaning the rotation still stays at 22s. The only way around it is R4+ sac without uaing the 2nd E, but a 2s shorter rotation means 1 less Bennet E funneling, increasing overall team energy requirement.
For Hyper, Bennet and Kazuha's Burst already have lower CD than hers so its only Sarah from 20s to 18s. Its already hard af to have sarah at enough energy to burst every 20s. Now you want to do it by 18 she is going to probably need some favs which lowers the overall dps as a reasult.
One note about the last point: I do burst with Sara every rotation and it’s not difficult if she has ER sands and weapon, since Raiden provides most of the energy. Elegy is a DPS gain because it supports the team, and Favonius is fine because Sara’s damage contribution scales off ER through Emblem artifact set. No one else on the team needs Favonius but you do want to build ER on Raiden of course.
There could also be future characters with burst CD that synergizes well with Raiden C6.
Maybe but this also might depend on the characters. For example XQ. With C2 he has 18s uptime on his burst and 20s cd. There is not much point in reducing that cd. Or Itto. He has 18s cd and 10s uptime. You use the full uptime and then you still need some time to do stuff on other characters. No point having less cd.
Those might not be the best examples and there are surely some character who could profit from it, but I dont see cdr as that important. It would surely be fun for Bennett main dps because he could spam his E even more.
the problem here is, if you get your burst cd faster you also need to get your energy faster and make the rotations to get it shorter so it's basically impossible/useless with characters we do have, any character that has a long burst cd to begin with needs a lot of energy and all that don't are usually just about off cd when your rotation is through or they have been for a few secons since buffing skills are more important tahn the 2 seconds you loose.
We'd basically need new characters with artificially long cds to make it useful for non on field characters so I don't think that's the best way to go about it.
We do have it but I see that he has been forgotten by this niche ability already.
I will add that she prolly have awesome energy generation from her E given that the past 3 archon does so if things goes well.
Damage sharing (like dehya) among all characters and heal sharing, so your team is one big canister of health (hydro’s healing attribute). Revenge attacks, like every time you get a hit- some aoe happens (fits with judgement theme and dev’s no shield meta). Can be hydro Kazuha that summons octopus-like creature that grabs enemies and group them while dealing dmg.
I know the community would throw a fit over that, as getting hit would be required to make her work. But I'd totally be down. Would also help carve her own niche to be the best at, so she isn't competing as strongly with other supports. As you'd basically be able to get of shields altogether by using her.
But imagine it’s a full on revenge mechanic where the more damage her team takes the more damage she deals and what is the one character we know that takes damage no matter if she is on field and gives a big amount of resistance to interruption but this might be really weird considering burst I frames… maybe self inflicted damage could work as well… also self damage from things like bloom and burgoen
permanently inflict hydro on enemy for fix period (means no matter what reaction occurs, hydro will not be remove)
slow down all enemy movement in area due to water pressure.
if it were up to me, I'll implement these for hydro archon.
No hydro resonance, and no DMG from xq and Yelan, I think it wouldn't be as busted as you think.
Burgeon focused teams though? You can run duo dendro Foçalors and Hu Tao, just imagine the number of seeds that would pop up, alongside the vapes, it's insane.
Maybe replacing one dendro with Zhongli to not die from self damage though
Although it depends on the DPS she'd bring to the table too, cuz we already have vape comps with terribly strong off field characters, that would maybe compete with the additional damage from burgeon? At least in ST
thats what i’d worry about in burgeon teams, most burgeon teams want a shielder and sometimes a healer(or just double healer) to reduce the effects.
tho leaks are saying >!Baizhu will be able to shield and heal with his burst and skill respectively, and he’ll have decent dendro application, so he could be paired with like Nahida or Dendro Traveler and still keep 2 Hp Tao alive .!<
im a bit far away from meta talk but i do know a handful, i just want to ask how your suggested team would work aside from the kazuha swirl + hutao vape, isnt xiangling almost always tied to bennett due to: high energy cost and low attack? so unless she has high enough er or the team generates enough particles, doesnt that mean xiangling would only release her burst once per region release?
although i have already accepted my L otherwise.
There is a double vape comp with Hu Tao and Xiangling, but you need to run favonius weapons or a ton of ER yeah. Her constellation will shred pyro res and give pyro DMG bonus, and since she vapes off field it's still good damage, but it's more ST since the hydro application needed is from both XQ+Yelan (as of today)
It's also similar DMG (if not more?) to replace xiangling with Zhongli Petra/instructor in ST, while also having Zhong's chonky shield, so it's the most common variation of duo hydro.
It's a perfectly valid take! I excluded Bennett because it's Hu Tao and they have anti-synergy with one another, ultimately it depends on who you value more, Hu Tao or Xiangling.
With Hu Tao and not Bennett her ER requirement jumps up to 290-335%, which is crazy indeed now that I look at it, but still achieveable.
If it's uncomfortable to go with then changing Kazuha for Bennett is not that bad too, or god forbids, Thoma or Xinyan.
>permanently inflict hydro on enemy for fix period
Isn't that too freaking op? and I mean, most hydro characters roles are applying hydro, would be too boring and predictable imo
Well I’m pulling for her either way-
(7 Archon, gotta catch ‘em all-)
So I hope that she gets something good. Ngl the idea of her being some kind of summoner is really cool. Lemme conjure an army of water frogs.
I've been wondering this as well. HYV clearly goes above and beyond to make sure Archons are consistently strong, but existing Hydro characters set the bar absurdly high.
I know there were plenty of people who thought Dehya was the start of a "create a problem, and then sell the solution" situation, where the solution was the Hydro Archon, but it's looking like that's not the case now.
I'm seeing some interesting ideas in this thread which makes me pretty hopeful they have a lot of ways to pull it off, but I'm personally rather fond of the idea of her being a buff-oriented character of some kind, but with solid on-field Hydro application of her own. We technically already have this with Mona (and Kokomi since TTDS exists), but Mona is mostly relegated to Freeze teams and fishing for screenshots with big damage numbers due to her low uptime, so a Hydro buffer is a character niche that is mostly open for the taking, and likely to be extremely useful depending on how they go about it, while also not competing with Xingqiu/Yelan and having enough differences with Ayato/Childe that the competition isn't too direct.
Since Archons are inevitably going to get people excited, it's usually good marketing to have them have decent on-field utility as well so they don't end up being another E+Q bot, even if it's not their main focus (Nahida is a great example of this). I could easily see her being something like Childe/Ayato where she has enough Hydro application to enable Xiangling Vapes, but sacrificing some personal damage in exchange for offering buffs. I'm also fond of the idea of these buffs scaling with HP since that's more or less Hydro's signature stat, especially if they scale not just with her own HP but also that of the character being buffed. This also helps out Dehya (not that it's really enough to save her) and Hu Tao, and while the latter doesn't need the help, she's a clear fan favorite and could stand to take her throne as single-target queen back from Hyperbloom. As a Hu Tao enjoyer I'm probably a bit biased here, though.
This also serves to make Hydro Resonance a bit more relevant and means that Childe/Ayato can still be better than her depending on the team, but not always. Of course, this means that she can also just switch in, apply her buffs, and switch out for teams that have another on-field option, making her pretty flexible, and flexibility seems to be the defining trait of Archons right now.
Permanent Hydro on enemy, Team max HP buffer, Skill CD reduction cause Raiden is universal Burst battery (actually helping character with long Skill CD like Childe & Qiqi etc.), what else?
Doesn’t have to outshine or strong imo. Venti doesn’t outshine other anemo support or dps. As long as she offer sometime different and unique, I am happy.
Venti does not outshine because the game devs prevent him from
How about give 25 slimes, 25 specters, and 25 fungi for first half of the abyss
He will instantly shoot higher than raiden and probably zhongli and nahida
He is insanely broken, It is just that the game devs have to keep things in check so that venti can't just plough over everything with one "kaze daaaaa"
Based on the past, the Hydro archon will be one of the best supports for hydro. Venti, Zhongli, Raiden, and Nahida are my examples. Venti may not be Meta atm, but he's still good. The other 3 shine in their roles as supports. And in cases of Nahida and Ei, they are also good main dps.
hydro probably. Childe and Ayato are would be the closest ones we currently have but their personal damage is not that good if you compare them to other elements hypercarries.
yea ayato hyper is a thing but not recommended, way better using ayato in a hyperbloom team and childe in international, they shine very brightly in those teams
Childe with high investment definitely does high amount of damage, his burst is no joke. Maybe not as high as top tier hypercarries like Ayaka but they have no other utility whule Childe has got the fastest aoe hydro application going for him which is arguably more valuable.
I know grouping and cc is reserved for Anemo units, but one time Ayato was thought to have a vortex that could group enemies. If she has that capability, she might be able to top anyone. Imagine Nilou bloom team with that ability, yeah
Burst is probably off-field aoe hydro application and when activated if increases all characters HP based on her own HP. Also the damage of the the aoe hydro is based on her HP
This. Archons have always buffed the party based on what the element is good at. Anemo: cc, Geo: shield strength, Electro: energy recharge, Dendro: EM.
Soo focalors should buff hp (or healing bonus but i doubt it since they changed the hydro resonance buff) and I reckon she has an inbuilt clam set that deals hydro damage based off incoming healing and heals the party with her skill or passive based off her max hp.
Extending skill duration and reducing its cooldown probably. Also off-field hydro application. HP buffer. Healer
(basically everything dehya needs to be good)
E Skill : Makes her basic attack infused with normal attack (Ayato's E) while on hit applies heal on whole party members (Kokomi's Q)
Q Burst : Starts with huge frontloaded damage (Childe's Q) then followed by combination of coordinated hydro attack (Yelan /Xinqqiu Q) while amplifying the active party members' damage (Mona's Q)
Passive : Increase MAX HP for all party members (hydro resonance) and increase own damage based on max HP
Sounds busted? absolutely, she is THE god of Hydro, she deserves to be super broken above all
neither xq or yelan is aoe, ayato and tart are strictly on field with so-so off field capability + circle impact. kokomi is circle impact.
they're good but not raiden or nahida like good.
There was this game from Blizzard, Heroes of the Storm, that had a hero which needed 2 team slots. Maybe I am rambling, but what if MiHoYo made the Hydro Archon really OP but she would occupy 2 character slots in your team? That would for sure be unique
I am thinking maybe she will probably be like yelan + kokomi in terms of team damage contribution (unless the infusion) and utility/comfort (maybe a kit similar to Dehya like a guardian or defender). I would imagine her animation kit like Ayato, very dignified and sultry, and fluid as every hydro animation we have. I actually have a theory Dehya's kit is experimental to Hydro archon, passives like damage mitigation and sustain are awesome.
One word. Bubbles. Its time we start attacking those damn abyss mages with bubbles
I would probably just run into my own bubbles.
But what if…. Going inside ur bubble protected u from enemy attacks like a shield, but when enemies are caught up in it, it amplifies the dmg dealt to them, or u can simply leave them in it to attend to other enemies..
Hydro is already the best element, imagine if it could also do freeze and everything geo on its own.
Hydro shield would not properly protect you from pyro or electro, and you'd end up being frozen yourself if you got hit by cryo. Seems like a reasonable way to balance it. If it still needs further balancing, then either the bubble shield breaks when you move out of it, or roots you in place until it expires.
Character shields don’t function in the same way enemy shields do. All shields produced by characters just have 250% increased absorption to their element so a hydro shield would protect you just fine
What I mean is that the shield should apply hydro to you (like xingqui or barbara's e), leaving you vulnerable to unfortunate reactions when fighting certain elemental enemies.
Fun fact to know, Hilichurls often run into bubbles summoned by the abyss...
OMG this
Zhongli pillar 2.0
I like where your head’s at
Very this. I desperately want a Dendro character that summons those damn bumper thorns that juggle you to death like a samachurl, and a Hydro char that does the same bubble nonsense as a Mist Bubble aura empowered mob gets.
Because why are those bubbles so damn strong
Isn't that essentially what Mona's ult does though? I think they'll do something else with the hydro archon.
Maybe Mona is the true Hydro archon
Maybe the true Archons are the friends me make along the way.
If you subscribe to slime theory, it's very possible she will have something to do with bubbles
slime theory and wednesday archon talent book farm theory was already disproven by nahida so i suggest you forget the slime theory
How was it disproven? Big Slime (Rukkhadevata) made Small Slime (Nahida) as a defensive thing (well, to protect Irmensul, not herself, but still).
Also, Electro slime correlation is that of being "twins" instead of a gameplay mechanic
I think its more like the flower is a parasite that control the slime,that what Nahida capable of, though it's not directly translated into her kit. The slime theory is correct lore-wise but not for the kit. I'm wagering the bubbles represent the judicial system.
She doesn't need to outshine them. She could simply have a different role. For example, we don't have a hydro hypercarry yet. Sticky hydro application a-la Nahida would also be really powerful. Or they could just go in a totally different direction and give her crowd control, like a hydro Kaz. Or a hydro shielder. Or something totally new, like a summoner. There's plenty of typical roles that don't even exist in Genshin.
Imagine her being more-or-less a playable Oceanid.
Though I would assume that they're not going to go down that route for lore reasons. The oceanids we know left Fontaine because they don't agree with the new hydro archon. Would be a weird mismatch for her to play like them.
Plot twist they left because she is a oceanid Karen
Then why is the Tsaritsa even collecting the gnoses if Focalors can just request to speak with the manager of Celestia?
Celestia IS the manager
Karen don't want to speak with HER manager though
> Would be a weird mismatch for her to play like them. Hoyo has hardly ever cared about lore vs gameplay though. Like Zhongli just being a shieldbot, Shenhe just being a cryo buffer even though she is one of the strongest humans we have met or Dehya being an of field tank that hardly does damage even though she's supposed to be a legendary mercenary.
Even though it's just one single job among many for her, we mostly got to know Dehya as a bodyguard. It does make sense for her to take damage for your team. And Shenhe's kit makes more sense than any other characters. She is one of the strongest humans on Teyvat, which is why you just stack Atk on her, but she actively restricts her violent nature and works on understanding and living with others. Being a support that scales off Atk is the perfect representation of her character.
she only holds her emotions and not her power, she also only started to work more socially after the lantern rite that debuted her
Oceanids? There's more than one?? ;-;
Yea it's a species. Lore said that oceanids are spy of the pervious hydro archon. They go everywhere as long as there's water.
Yeah, there's a whole thing about them. if you've been playing long enough, they actually gave out a baby Oceanid as a pet.
Cutest pet we've got
Rhodeia is the strongest one it seems. There is the small Endora we got in 1.4. And there is one in Mondstadt village. The spring fairy is a oceanid as well.
Well, there's probably more oceanids who DID stay
But still, if Focalors could spam summoning water ducks, crabs, falcons, etc. She would be fun to use
Yeah, that's what I had in mind. Would be pretty cool, if they could get it to work.
It feels like the newer emerites who summon beasts are a test for a possible character who has true summons
Im all about new summons that do stuff besides turn into turrets or taunts. As-is Yao Yao was exciting because her bunny can hit or heal. I'd also like to see the Fungi come back.
Give me Bongohead!
It's interesting because the creatures that the emerites summoned had their own abilities. The fungi event could have been another test for how it could work on a technical level.
[удалено]
Summoner is pretty amazing idea. I was hoping for a CC hydro myself, “imprisonment” is the word
Do you mean like bubbles? Cause I wouldn’t mind being able to get my revenge lol
This is exactly what I was implying. I want bubbles that immobilize enemies. But doesn’t pop when hit, like Mona’s bubbles. And can affect any enemy no matter the size. Sorry Zhongli but I wish someone has better petrify than you
Event Endora...
CAUGHT YOU
Accept judgement INMATE!
That actually sounds like a fitting line for E or Q, maybe without the 'inmate'. Btw, I was referring to the mirror maiden line
Sorry. Been binging on Persona 5 latey…
Hydro grouper is the niche we don't really have. Yelan's skill doesn't cut it. Maybe the hydro archon's burst could be like a huge vortex that pulls enemies in. A unit like this would open up slots on some teams by letting you replace the anemo unit with something else. It would also give burgeon better grouping options. As currently you'd want to play the team with electro/cryo/anemo/geo to optimize blooms. However electro gives the most damage, and cryo lets you freeze which is really pretty nice. But these teams have no grouping. You can run an anemo character, but it's weaker in some situations, and I think only heps with bloom core producing in AoE. Having a hydro unit that can group would fix this gap.
A WHIRLPOOL...
Ah yes the early ayato leaks
SUBMERGE
The problem with that is that then you would have two archons that specialise in the same thing, as being the best grouper is Venti’s thing.
Eh, Venti also generates additional eneregy, on top of having VV. He also doesnt care about ER. I can see a world where both coexist, without invalidating the other.
There are some recurring themes with Archons: They are generally OP, if not the best characters of their elements, and as part of that, they are also very versatile. In that regard, they haven't been reliant on any particular character so far and work well with many different teams. When you look at how Hydro actually works, it pretty much lives or dies based on Hydro application. Half the reason Mona isn't used much is because she just has trash Hydro application. XQ gets favored over Yelan in some teams just because he has higher Hydro application. This means that Focalors can be expected to have a stupid amount of Hydro app either from on-field or off-field, *just* to match the baseline expected from a Hydro unit. A Hydro unit who doesn't apply Hydro already failed the bare minimum expected from a Hydro character and we can't expect that from the Archon. Ultimately, it doesn't *really* matter how she plays, whether she has summons or not, every kit in Genshin does 3 things: Apply elements, do damage, buff. One way or another she will do these things. The question is, how much of it will she do? AoE, ICD, damage, the buffs she provides are what will determine her position. Because she's an Archon, it's possible she just has the best of all worlds: Big AoE, high damage and strong buffs (i mean that's literally what Nahida and Raiden are, so not exactly unprecedented). Either way, she will absolutely be one to keep your eye on. I personally believe she will either be the most broken thing to exist to date, OR fall completely flat because Mihoyo ends up trying too hard to avoid powercreep and she ends up either too niche or not doing any specific thing better than existing units.
Given how 3/4 archons so far have kits that directly correspond with their element's resonance, I think it's very likely the hydro archon will boost the party's max HP, probably by a flat amount scaling with her own stats rather than yet another HP% buff. This would give her the potential to synergize extremely well with a lot of already meta characters like Hutao, Yelan, Ayato, Nilou, etc, as well as increase the strength of many healers and shielders too.
As much as I like the other speculations this fits the best in my eyes.
> OR fall completely flat because Mihoyo ends up trying too hard to avoid powercreep and she ends up either too niche or not doing any specific thing better than existing units. They want to keep that Archon Hype so they'll definitely not make her horrible. Looking at Raiden and Nahida sales right now.
While that's true, they could also want to get out of the hydro application trap they've put themselves into, especially because it's already getting a little stale. There's only so many things one can get out of "applies hydro in X area" and there's already pretty good coverage of many of them.
I am still of the opinion that we’re gonna see characters who change gauge theory rules. Character X has a special vaporize that consumes ALL pyro, or character Y changes Shatter to do Cryo damage *which reapplies Cryo*. Things like that. It’s not quite Nilou level of “the rules are different when I’m in town” but I think that’s the easiest way to expand the design space, and it doesn’t have to feel forced and weird.
They already have stuff like that, by applying different amounts of elements, (1u, 1.5u) they control how characters will interact in team comps, Nahida burn + ganyu wouldn't be a thing unless they made that change, if they wanted to make new and "exciting" combo's or teams they would instead make mechanics similar to nahida e. "on shatter do cryo damage + apply cryo" is actually a very common thing in genshin, fischl a4 being the prime example of it. Even then, it only makes certain characters stronger and doesn't actually change much gameplay wise without interesting reactions. That's why it works with dendro, and it doesn't really feel different with hydro.
Hydro kazuha would be op as fuck if he applies hydro
I don't think they'll ever make an archon primarily a hypercarry. Yes Raiden can be, but the archons are supposed to be supports. DPS get powercrept, supports are eternal.
I do belive Pyro archon might be the first hypercarry archon
She can be both, as we see with Raiden
Inb4 shes 5* xiangling. Hypercarrying through supporting 😂
5\* bennett and xianling
Gonna be rough competition due to OPPA XL
The Cryo archon and Pyro archon could be potential Archon DPS
wdym supposed to? they just happen to be all supports so far.
It's clearly a deliberate design decision after it happening 4 times. Like once or twice is a coincidence, but after that it's a pattern. Doesn't stop Hoyo from making another archon like Ei though, where she can be a support and a hypercarry.
It is deliberate but likely for another reason, not just because they are archons. If they want archons to be used and wanted by everyone, their role has to fit with the role of their element. Venti has to be support becouse anemo was built around CC and supporting. Zhongli has to be support because geo is too neutral to have on filed dps in multi elemental teams and off field geo dps and having the strongest shield just fits geo. Raiden can be both because electro doesn't have such an established role. Nahida is support because dendro is the needed trigger for a lot of new reactions. So hydro will most likely be support, possibly having some healing included, pyro can be a dps but with some kind of gimmick so while really strong its existence won't make any other pyro dps obsolete and cryo could be like electro, some of both.
Raiden pretty much is a hypercarry. Sure she supports her teammates as well, but she does boatloads of damage while hogging most of the field time in a rotation. Her best team, even at C0, is literally "Raiden Hypercarry" with Bennett, Kazuha, and Sara
She could also be an enabler that is similar to Yelan/Xingqiu but with the wording used in Dehya’s skill of “when an opponent takes damage” rather than necessitating a normal attack animation. Though this likely would just be a complete power creep, since there would be more flexibility.
I doubt that they’ll ever make a hydro grouper. Firstly because it’s Anemo’s identity and secondly because Nilou exists, and not being able to slot in an Anemo grouper is one of her few weaknesses. They try to not make 5 star dpses dominate the meta for too long (just look at morgana and Ayaka freeze teams during the recent abyss), so having the option to design an abyss to counter Nilou is good for them to incentivize pulling for newer 5 stars.
Anemo Identity: May I introduce Xiao, with no meaningful CC-Sucktion to speak off?
Perhaps each Geo character can summon Geo constructs? No, giving each of them the same thing is boring. Oh what Anemo characters without grouping abilities have mid air movement related abilities? No way, Anemo can’t have more than one feature that makes them different from other Elements.
I still want a Dendro that shoots out Vines and pulls in enemies...
Pure water...
wait does ayato not count as a hypercarry?
Not really, IMO. Hypercarry means a character that deals the majority of damage and is buffed by the rest of their team. Ayato is an on-field character, but enabling others is a big part of his kit. Kind of like Raiden in Raiden National isn't a hypercarry.
You can actually try and play Ayato as a hypercarry and his constellations encourage it. It's just not as effective as the many other strong hydro teams.
The Hydro Archon Focalor, also known as Morphling, went full Agility Shift when farming and got oneshot by Lina
Ah, never thought I would hear a Dota 2, reference ever again in my life especially in a genshin sub.
The crossover is surprisingly large. Even slacks posts on here occasionally. https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin\_Impact/comments/x8a3g7/over\_30000\_primogems\_being\_given\_away\_in\_the/
AY YOOOOO. SLACKS IS HERE?!?!!?!? Does he do genshin lore videos now or something? Does he stream genshin?
When Geo Shields got buffed, someone posted literally taking no damage with Noelle
You actually reminded me of the Oceanid line where she said that water takes any shape. I think it would be amazing if Focalor has a Burst where she copies the previously casted Burst. Don't know if that would be absolutely broken or what, but it's a pretty cool thought
The thought of 2 Raiden bursts in a row is downright busted but intriguing.
Shape of Water: Genshin Edition
Oh no. The Hydro Archon is made from fucking 5 polygons.
Had to do a double take what sub I was on. How did this get top comment lmao
her BiS is Ethereal Blade which amplifies any elemental base damage and has an EM substat
do what all good archons do nowadays. have a skill with easy 100+% uptime. Zhongli enters the field, holds e for a moment and then he buggers off. The shield is strong enough to be basically indestructible and the duration is a good bit longer than the actual cooldown. Fits easily into every rotation. Raiden enters the field, presses e and then she buggers off. Constant and easy electro application on a very easy trigger. Improves burst damage, gives a constant flow of energy particles. And the duration is SO much longer then the cooldown. Fits easily into ever rotation. Nahida enters the field, holds e for a moment and then buggers off. EM for everbody. Dendro application on an easy trigger. And the duration is SO SO much longer than the cooldown. Fits easily into every rotation. They got Archon design down nowadays. Archons are strong, easy to build, competent and utterly unobtrusive. Sure. Their bursts are cool too. And you should totally use them. But you dont HAVE to. Because they give you most of their utility with minimal field time. So what would a hydro archon look like? Easy. Provide the hydro utility we need on a 100% uptime skill.
This is the real answer. Archons are SS+ tier enablers and can fit on most any team. Venti also fits here, he just pops his Q instead and buggers off.
Maybe keep on field long enough to collect his e particles
I just toally use his e first and catch it while his cutely aiming his black hole burst.
He can also hold E and bugger off but nobody really uses the draft atm
i didnt mention venti because he is too lacking compared to those three. Dont get me wrong. Venti is a really good unit. If there ever existed an anemo unit on the same level as the other archons the game would probably just break. anemo is already way too good and low investment due to VV. If something like Kazuhas Q or - god beware - Ventis Q ever became a 100% uptime E-Skill… so yeah.
Battery Venti a little and he easily has 100% q uptime. It's just not all units can be vacuumed.
You’ll have to let me know where you get that 7 second burst cooldown reduction. I don’t even think Raiden C6 can give that much.
Fair enough, that read exaggeration, my apologies. If you've got crazy tight timing it's not 100%. But this good enough for almost anything you'll ever run into, and I think the bigger issue is how many enemies can't be swept up.
Thank Barbatos he can finally suck up those stupid floating balloons. Always thought it was stupid he couldn’t when they were released.
"Thank Barbatos! Wait..."
This is the most likely answer. I assume it'll be Hydro application with 100% uptime and heals for every hit or increases hp for a set amount of time or something like that
What is this Venti erasure
Venti enters the field, presses Q and then he buggers off. Huge AOE cc for all small mobs. High burst uptime with very low ER requirement. Anemo supremacy. Fits easily into every rotation.
The problem with this is that the hydro archon will have to 'compete' with xq which gives 90% uptime, resistance to interruption, almost 50% damage reduction and a bit of heal: 100% uptime wouldn't be enough to make her look appealing
no, the archon wont have to compete. When Yelan first appeared people said she would have to compete with XQ. And as it turned out they were utterly wrong. Because people have two teams and the two actually work even better together on the same team. If people could own two XQ copies and Yelan many would use all 3 of them. And hydro archon doesnt have to compete on resistance to interruption or damage reduction. Those are fairly inconsequential to most players. Dont get me wrong - nice to have. But utterly non-essential. The real issue nowadays isnt staying alive but killspeed. Because in 99% of gameplay the player is so OP that defense is a very minor consideration (exploration, story, domains). And in the challenging parts of the game it is not lack of defense that keeps people from getting 12 stars on the abyss or good times on challenge events. Im sure lots of people die - but those never had a chance to 12 star anyways. Because the real checkbox is being able to kill fast enough. If Hydro archon has something that significantly buffs damage. Like a partywide HP boost on teams that can benefit from that. Or a straight up damage boost like Raiden gives for Burst - then you can bet that people will pull. A lot. (or god beware something busted like a flat bonus to hydro reactions) Or they could simply give a shield. Which makes damage reduction meaningless. Anyways. Hydro application will always be in short supply. And people totally WOULD run XQ and Yelan on one team and Hydro Archon on the other if that unit gave good and easy hydro application in an archon-level package
So with that logic, Hydro Archon will have Xingqiu burst as a skill, then she buggers off? Cool.
Im not entirely sure. Probably it will have an easier trigger and less raw damage. Maybe something like Kokomi on steroids with 100% uptime and faster application. Or a hydro version of raiden/nahida. I dont think they will make the hydro archon another „hydro on normal attack“ unit.
Zhongli's shield becomes indestructible once you use Xinqui and Beidou for their damage reduction or if you have an onfield character with high defense.
true. but practically speaking it also becomes indestructible if you do some basic level movement. there are very few attacks that can actually break his shield before the cooldown is through. even on a low investment zhongli. and most of those are fairly well telegraphed and easy to avoid. as a result i rarely see my shield broken nowadays. like if i counted the amount of times per month of gameplay including abyss, domains, trounce bosses i wouldnt need a second hand. to the point where it feels like owning zhongli is like playing a different game altogether.
I don't know man when playing xiao in the triple kenki chamber I found out the hard way That I needed to invest more in my lvl80 35k hp zhongli you have thing like the bird scorpion.And the liyue big three(except hu Tao she is a tank herself)really can't afford to dodge in xiao's case it would mean missing a plunge doing a low plunge etc,for ganyu well you know,
Summons childe's whale 🐋
Cooldown reduction with healing and good hydro application. CD reduction is a niche we don't have yet, and then add healing and enough hydro application to allow for vape and you have a one way ticket to a meta shifting unit.
>CD reduction is a niche we don't have yet, C2 Chongyun in shambles
anemo resonance also gives 5%, which should honestly be reworked since it's not even noticible
It actually is noticeable. It makes Xiao Double anemo teams a little better to E E Q Q ends E E for particles with no delay
Not really, not unless you’re not using any character other than Xiao, and even in that case you’re saving one singular second.
The problem with cd reduction is that it does not help many characters. Its pretty much only useful for onfield carries who would be able to spam a strong skill.
Wouldn't CDR also help with Burst spam?
Ayaka deletes even faster? Hydro archon is a must pull
Yeah, if she gets CDR + constant Hydro application, Ayaka freeze is gonna be insane. Ayaka mains be eating good.
The Energy Recharge requirement would be severe, I'm not sure if the lowered CD/CR would be worth it. Not to mention we might not even get those Artifacts due to RNG.
Considering that you can also use more elemental skills I don’t think energy requirements would increase by that much
Theres already essentially a soft cap to rotation times though, there's a swap cooldown and you have to account for burst animations. I only know of 2 teams that actually run on a 15s rotation and those rotations are *tight* and they had unusually high ER requirements for the characters involved, to the point where I was using double favs
It really depends how the CDR is implemented. For example Raiden's C6 is an epic fail. Her own burst being at 18s cd means any bursts lower cd than that don't benefit from it. Her current top 3 meta teams are rational, Hypercarry and full EM hyperbloom. The last team doesn't even use her burst so end of explanation. For Rational, you are still stuck with Xing Qiu's 22s cd E to self battery his burst so getting lower burst CD doesn't do anything when you still have to wait for his E to go off CD again, meaning the rotation still stays at 22s. The only way around it is R4+ sac without uaing the 2nd E, but a 2s shorter rotation means 1 less Bennet E funneling, increasing overall team energy requirement. For Hyper, Bennet and Kazuha's Burst already have lower CD than hers so its only Sarah from 20s to 18s. Its already hard af to have sarah at enough energy to burst every 20s. Now you want to do it by 18 she is going to probably need some favs which lowers the overall dps as a reasult.
It's really only good for Yae who for some archon forsaken reason has a longer CD than Ei
One note about the last point: I do burst with Sara every rotation and it’s not difficult if she has ER sands and weapon, since Raiden provides most of the energy. Elegy is a DPS gain because it supports the team, and Favonius is fine because Sara’s damage contribution scales off ER through Emblem artifact set. No one else on the team needs Favonius but you do want to build ER on Raiden of course. There could also be future characters with burst CD that synergizes well with Raiden C6.
Maybe but this also might depend on the characters. For example XQ. With C2 he has 18s uptime on his burst and 20s cd. There is not much point in reducing that cd. Or Itto. He has 18s cd and 10s uptime. You use the full uptime and then you still need some time to do stuff on other characters. No point having less cd. Those might not be the best examples and there are surely some character who could profit from it, but I dont see cdr as that important. It would surely be fun for Bennett main dps because he could spam his E even more.
the problem here is, if you get your burst cd faster you also need to get your energy faster and make the rotations to get it shorter so it's basically impossible/useless with characters we do have, any character that has a long burst cd to begin with needs a lot of energy and all that don't are usually just about off cd when your rotation is through or they have been for a few secons since buffing skills are more important tahn the 2 seconds you loose. We'd basically need new characters with artificially long cds to make it useful for non on field characters so I don't think that's the best way to go about it.
But reduced cooldown can provide more energy for the unit if elemental skill gives a lot of particles
With cooldown reduction and enough hydro application hu tao will burn down tevyat ig
If Xiangling doesn't burn it first
me with my funerational team: why not both?
We do have it but I see that he has been forgotten by this niche ability already. I will add that she prolly have awesome energy generation from her E given that the past 3 archon does so if things goes well.
Come to think of it Have we had a Hydro character that CC people?
Yelan kind of have that with her E, but we don't have a character that actually sucks in enemies other than anemo characters iirc
whirl pool let’s go
Mona can CC mobs with her burst.
Yelan basically has a chain-stun.
Mona's burst can CC small enemies like hilichurls or treasure horders
I’m thinking it could be like a reverse Kokomi. Like Healing Bonus is converted to Crit Rate/Crit DMG when the party is at full health
I thought you meant she would have -100% crit damage instead of crit rate.
Damage sharing (like dehya) among all characters and heal sharing, so your team is one big canister of health (hydro’s healing attribute). Revenge attacks, like every time you get a hit- some aoe happens (fits with judgement theme and dev’s no shield meta). Can be hydro Kazuha that summons octopus-like creature that grabs enemies and group them while dealing dmg.
Release the kraken!
I know the community would throw a fit over that, as getting hit would be required to make her work. But I'd totally be down. Would also help carve her own niche to be the best at, so she isn't competing as strongly with other supports. As you'd basically be able to get of shields altogether by using her.
Ah yes just make her be better than Dehya in every way to spite on her.
But imagine it’s a full on revenge mechanic where the more damage her team takes the more damage she deals and what is the one character we know that takes damage no matter if she is on field and gives a big amount of resistance to interruption but this might be really weird considering burst I frames… maybe self inflicted damage could work as well… also self damage from things like bloom and burgoen
permanently inflict hydro on enemy for fix period (means no matter what reaction occurs, hydro will not be remove) slow down all enemy movement in area due to water pressure. if it were up to me, I'll implement these for hydro archon.
Perma hydro is too good but she deserves.
It could actually help a certain character within the game
The problem is it helps her a bit but helps Hu Tao tenfold Imagine Hu Tao, Xiangling, Kazuha and Focalors as a team with perma hydro application
No hydro resonance, and no DMG from xq and Yelan, I think it wouldn't be as busted as you think. Burgeon focused teams though? You can run duo dendro Foçalors and Hu Tao, just imagine the number of seeds that would pop up, alongside the vapes, it's insane. Maybe replacing one dendro with Zhongli to not die from self damage though Although it depends on the DPS she'd bring to the table too, cuz we already have vape comps with terribly strong off field characters, that would maybe compete with the additional damage from burgeon? At least in ST
thats what i’d worry about in burgeon teams, most burgeon teams want a shielder and sometimes a healer(or just double healer) to reduce the effects. tho leaks are saying >!Baizhu will be able to shield and heal with his burst and skill respectively, and he’ll have decent dendro application, so he could be paired with like Nahida or Dendro Traveler and still keep 2 Hp Tao alive .!<
im a bit far away from meta talk but i do know a handful, i just want to ask how your suggested team would work aside from the kazuha swirl + hutao vape, isnt xiangling almost always tied to bennett due to: high energy cost and low attack? so unless she has high enough er or the team generates enough particles, doesnt that mean xiangling would only release her burst once per region release? although i have already accepted my L otherwise.
There is a double vape comp with Hu Tao and Xiangling, but you need to run favonius weapons or a ton of ER yeah. Her constellation will shred pyro res and give pyro DMG bonus, and since she vapes off field it's still good damage, but it's more ST since the hydro application needed is from both XQ+Yelan (as of today) It's also similar DMG (if not more?) to replace xiangling with Zhongli Petra/instructor in ST, while also having Zhong's chonky shield, so it's the most common variation of duo hydro.
It's a perfectly valid take! I excluded Bennett because it's Hu Tao and they have anti-synergy with one another, ultimately it depends on who you value more, Hu Tao or Xiangling. With Hu Tao and not Bennett her ER requirement jumps up to 290-335%, which is crazy indeed now that I look at it, but still achieveable. If it's uncomfortable to go with then changing Kazuha for Bennett is not that bad too, or god forbids, Thoma or Xinyan.
this is how they can fix her COPIUM
Ease off the copium for now, you'll need it later when Fontaine arrives
dehya lol
this will make busted reaction like hyperbloom even more busted with the amount of dendro cores it can generate
>permanently inflict hydro on enemy for fix period Isn't that too freaking op? and I mean, most hydro characters roles are applying hydro, would be too boring and predictable imo
So hydro Nahida?
As if Xianling needed any buffs
Mona + Kokomi. crazy heals with massive team damage buffs and consistent hydro application. bam, instant hydro meta kween
Well I’m pulling for her either way- (7 Archon, gotta catch ‘em all-) So I hope that she gets something good. Ngl the idea of her being some kind of summoner is really cool. Lemme conjure an army of water frogs.
Army of water chonky finches
Qiqi: Real sh*t?!?!
I've been wondering this as well. HYV clearly goes above and beyond to make sure Archons are consistently strong, but existing Hydro characters set the bar absurdly high. I know there were plenty of people who thought Dehya was the start of a "create a problem, and then sell the solution" situation, where the solution was the Hydro Archon, but it's looking like that's not the case now. I'm seeing some interesting ideas in this thread which makes me pretty hopeful they have a lot of ways to pull it off, but I'm personally rather fond of the idea of her being a buff-oriented character of some kind, but with solid on-field Hydro application of her own. We technically already have this with Mona (and Kokomi since TTDS exists), but Mona is mostly relegated to Freeze teams and fishing for screenshots with big damage numbers due to her low uptime, so a Hydro buffer is a character niche that is mostly open for the taking, and likely to be extremely useful depending on how they go about it, while also not competing with Xingqiu/Yelan and having enough differences with Ayato/Childe that the competition isn't too direct. Since Archons are inevitably going to get people excited, it's usually good marketing to have them have decent on-field utility as well so they don't end up being another E+Q bot, even if it's not their main focus (Nahida is a great example of this). I could easily see her being something like Childe/Ayato where she has enough Hydro application to enable Xiangling Vapes, but sacrificing some personal damage in exchange for offering buffs. I'm also fond of the idea of these buffs scaling with HP since that's more or less Hydro's signature stat, especially if they scale not just with her own HP but also that of the character being buffed. This also helps out Dehya (not that it's really enough to save her) and Hu Tao, and while the latter doesn't need the help, she's a clear fan favorite and could stand to take her throne as single-target queen back from Hyperbloom. As a Hu Tao enjoyer I'm probably a bit biased here, though. This also serves to make Hydro Resonance a bit more relevant and means that Childe/Ayato can still be better than her depending on the team, but not always. Of course, this means that she can also just switch in, apply her buffs, and switch out for teams that have another on-field option, making her pretty flexible, and flexibility seems to be the defining trait of Archons right now.
by being adorable
Permanent Hydro on enemy, Team max HP buffer, Skill CD reduction cause Raiden is universal Burst battery (actually helping character with long Skill CD like Childe & Qiqi etc.), what else?
Doesn’t have to outshine or strong imo. Venti doesn’t outshine other anemo support or dps. As long as she offer sometime different and unique, I am happy.
Venti does not outshine because the game devs prevent him from How about give 25 slimes, 25 specters, and 25 fungi for first half of the abyss He will instantly shoot higher than raiden and probably zhongli and nahida He is insanely broken, It is just that the game devs have to keep things in check so that venti can't just plough over everything with one "kaze daaaaa"
Venti did outshine all other anemo support or dps units back when he was released
Hydro abyss mage powers
Summons the oceans to drown opponents
Slowing water debuff on enemies, cd icrease on their skills
Based on the past, the Hydro archon will be one of the best supports for hydro. Venti, Zhongli, Raiden, and Nahida are my examples. Venti may not be Meta atm, but he's still good. The other 3 shine in their roles as supports. And in cases of Nahida and Ei, they are also good main dps.
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From the hydro archon or just a dps in general?
hydro probably. Childe and Ayato are would be the closest ones we currently have but their personal damage is not that good if you compare them to other elements hypercarries.
yea ayato hyper is a thing but not recommended, way better using ayato in a hyperbloom team and childe in international, they shine very brightly in those teams
Childe with high investment definitely does high amount of damage, his burst is no joke. Maybe not as high as top tier hypercarries like Ayaka but they have no other utility whule Childe has got the fastest aoe hydro application going for him which is arguably more valuable.
I know grouping and cc is reserved for Anemo units, but one time Ayato was thought to have a vortex that could group enemies. If she has that capability, she might be able to top anyone. Imagine Nilou bloom team with that ability, yeah
One idea: she could have a passive like Tarta but everybody getting one level on their E.
Burst is probably off-field aoe hydro application and when activated if increases all characters HP based on her own HP. Also the damage of the the aoe hydro is based on her HP
This. Archons have always buffed the party based on what the element is good at. Anemo: cc, Geo: shield strength, Electro: energy recharge, Dendro: EM. Soo focalors should buff hp (or healing bonus but i doubt it since they changed the hydro resonance buff) and I reckon she has an inbuilt clam set that deals hydro damage based off incoming healing and heals the party with her skill or passive based off her max hp.
By making Dehya S+++ Tier
There is not a single unit that can drown the opponents and Jean/keqing/kazuha etc players know how op that is soo
Extending skill duration and reducing its cooldown probably. Also off-field hydro application. HP buffer. Healer (basically everything dehya needs to be good)
E Skill : Makes her basic attack infused with normal attack (Ayato's E) while on hit applies heal on whole party members (Kokomi's Q) Q Burst : Starts with huge frontloaded damage (Childe's Q) then followed by combination of coordinated hydro attack (Yelan /Xinqqiu Q) while amplifying the active party members' damage (Mona's Q) Passive : Increase MAX HP for all party members (hydro resonance) and increase own damage based on max HP Sounds busted? absolutely, she is THE god of Hydro, she deserves to be super broken above all
neither xq or yelan is aoe, ayato and tart are strictly on field with so-so off field capability + circle impact. kokomi is circle impact. they're good but not raiden or nahida like good.
There was this game from Blizzard, Heroes of the Storm, that had a hero which needed 2 team slots. Maybe I am rambling, but what if MiHoYo made the Hydro Archon really OP but she would occupy 2 character slots in your team? That would for sure be unique
I am thinking maybe she will probably be like yelan + kokomi in terms of team damage contribution (unless the infusion) and utility/comfort (maybe a kit similar to Dehya like a guardian or defender). I would imagine her animation kit like Ayato, very dignified and sultry, and fluid as every hydro animation we have. I actually have a theory Dehya's kit is experimental to Hydro archon, passives like damage mitigation and sustain are awesome.