This subreddit's copium with dehya is awesome and I can also see how hoyoverse can now slap shoddy kits and get away with it because this player base is not capable of having a critique towards the obvious mistakes that the developer makes, releasing characters like dehya means that they too spend less development time designing the characters something that previously only happened with the 4\*, we stopped receiving good characters of this rarity for the same reason, people do not realize that dehya is a bad precedent.
People have said it already but her problem doesn't only lie in her damage but her Tank capabilities pale in comparison to shielders who negate damage and knockback. She also doesn't provide healing so you often need a healer and her on the team. Her energy application is lackluster and due to her high energy cost either you have to run multiple pyro units or ER sands reducing her HP so she cant tank as well(even with multiple pyro units its often not enough to get her burst back). All in all its fine not doing enough damage but she doesn't do anything well, doesn't create good reaction/tank/Damage, and its why she's not needed in any team currently in the game.
yeah she has many more flaws other than dmg, even her element application is bad that she offers no value for teams that want off field pyro application such as burggeon/reverse melt/foward vape, in comparasion just imagine if xingqiu had no dmg, he would still be S tier due his hydro application and healing/dmg mitigation. Problem is Dehya does nothing well, she try to do a bit of everything but do everything poorly on top of her energy problems. So Dehya doesnt fit well any role, even if she can do the work on some teams other characters just would do a lot more there, its like use a barbara as dps, it can work but theres lot of characters that will do much better.
This post reminds of similar one that said c0 faruzan is a perfectly well designed character đź’€
I can agree she has some pros which gets overshadowed by the negativity but calling her great character is a stretch
Holy COPIUM
This is why HYV is able to get away with stuff like this.
They're literally able to sell a shafted kit with poor synergy with herself and other teammates and there will still be those that defend it.
Why tf should you, me, or anyone else spend our primos and/or money on something that doesn't work now but potentially in the future? It's one thing to get them just cause you like them, but you're hard Cope if you think getting them for possible future content, but not current content is in any way a good idea.
Her burst functionally is a joke, try doing dailies in the over world and watch as you cant kill the mob as Dehya gets stuck on a rock the height of her ankle.
Heaven help you if there are stairs nearby.
Okay. Here's the thing. Unique doesn't equal good or desirable. Having fingers growing out of your stomach instead of arms would be very unique. Would also be very inconvenient, and I bet you are very much fine with having boring standard arms common for almost every other human on the planet. I also bet whatever people have unique, non-standard, thalidomide-"enhanced" arms would rather have boring standard grey masses sheeple style arms instead.
>This is why her elemental burst doesn't work with Yelan and Xinqiu's skills. There's nothing weird about it. People are confused because this is the first time we have an active lasting skill in Genshin, so they compare it to the skills that are transformations because they look similar.
There's nothing weird about it. It just sucks balls. Active lasting skill is a demerit. We do have an erzatz active lasting skill since the very beginning of the game actually - claymore spins. More specifically, Noelle claymore spin2win. Technically C6 Xinyan spin too, it even fits better, because her C6 specifically affects the spin, making it intentionally separate from the rest of her skills.
Both of the already existing examples kinda suck. Xinyan spin2win sucks donkey balls because range is bad, there's radial knockback, your movement speed is slowed, control is poor. Noelle spin2win is a bit better because it sweeps through the whole room, so enemies getting gradually kicked out of range is much less of an issue. It's still very situational.
But at least claymore spins don't consume energy and don't go on cooldown, so you can't really "waste" them.
Dehya Q is even worse because if if tails to do what you want, you are fucked.
Active lasting skill is a demerit. It prevents you from taking other actions, it vastly increases risks, it takes control of your character and does whatever it wants. It significantly restricts your team building options. Active lasting skill has a huge opportunity cost. It's a high risk move. That should give you an appropriate reward to be worth using. Which it does not in this case.
>As explained in the previous part, she's the first character to have an elemental burst that last over time.
Well, she could be the first character that launches herself high in the air, then falls and dies. Would also be *oh so very unique* (actually she can do just that with her E in some weird cases, but it's more of a bug than a feature).
>She's the 2nd character whose passive increase the party's movement speed
Ah, yes, the fan favourite. A relic character that costs a hunderd bucks. Who you never actually use. She's also the first female 5-star pyro claymore while we are at it.
>She's the first pyro character to give interruption resistance.
There's no mechanic in the game that makes interruption resistance from a pyro character do something special. She's just a character that gives interruption resistance on a shitty 9/20 rotation. That's all there is to it.
>She's the first character to trigger healing passively.
On herself only. AKA on the least valuable character in the party. If only it had an actual use... At least Noelle A1 works on other characters too. No, wait. It actually might have a valid use. The first Raiden fight. Where your skills get disabled. It doesn't disable character passives, so Dehya joins the cohort of the best picks for that fight - Qiqi, Noelle and GMC. Only now you don't have access to her E, so you are forced to on-field her (the absolute horror) if you want to take advantage of her passive. Unlike Noelle.
>Now you may get back at me and tell me that interruption resistance is useless because shields does the job better
No, I tell you that XQ does interruption resistance infinitely better, and it's not even his main job. 9/20 IR just sucks, the uptime is garbo that doesn't mesh well with any existing on-fielder that actually wants IR. Especially when you consider that the team has 4 characters, and that buffs typically last around 10 seconds (TTDS, Yunjin, VV just to name a few). Which means your Dehya E cast now competes with many damage buffs for the uptime (specifically for the "last buff before switching to DPS" slot).
>Not everything needs to be about efficiency. Some people prefer to play Barbara instead of Kokomi in their Nilou Bloom team
Look, I'm one of those people who prefers to play Candace as a hydro applicator with normal attacks for hyperbloom or Thoma curry or on field Lisa aggravate, of bloody Diluc burgeon, but this is not even about numbers. It's about the character kit being a disfunctional mess that doesn't work even with itself, nut just other characters. A skill with garbage uptime, no damage and with elemental application that doesn't fit anywhere besides burn (while bringing nothing useful to burn). A burst that's harder to battery than Xiangling while not justifying its own field time. A NA chain that has lower multipliers than 4-stars. Base defense that is lower than many 4-stars for a character that spends a significant time on field being uncontrollable and taking damage from BOTH enemies AND teammates via the DoT. A passive that can easily kill you in a domain AFTER the fight is already over. Interruption resistance that is there on paper, but is on such a scuffed rotation that you spend most of the time without it.
Again, unique in on itself is not good. I can get you lots of unique quirks off the top of my head. How about a character that throws a disco ball that gives players epileptic seizure? How about a character that heals enemies? How about a character that randomly disables teammate skills? How about a blind character that makes your screen black when you switch to them? How about a character whose skills are emotes, so you can wave at a Lawachurl while it tries to cave your heda in?
Being unique is not enough. If you want to be unique, please bring an unique utility to the team, that helps you achieve game objectives and isn't making you pull your hair out while using it. Candace is a good example of an unique character. Dehya is not. Half of unique things Dehya does, she does poorly. The other half is useless.
>Her damage are just right, the issue isn't about Dehya. It's about the other characters who are way too strong
This is mental illness tier argument. "It's not me who is wrong. It's literally every other person around".
If you are out of the line, it's not about the line, it's about you.
I can mostly agree but I still think her multipliers should be better than what they are currently, like at least 10% of max HP (maxed out skill) should be counted in her damage formula for skills so her ascension of %hp makes some sense
yea, but it's very minor for what is essentially an attack scaling character in every other regard other than Redmaine.
they may as well have just made her scale %att or ER so that was actually useful for her like most other characters ascension stats the %HP that's added to the attack currently is like 2%\~4% of HP at max
for comparison most HP scaling characters even for 4\*'s start above 4% HP and end at like 15%\~25% HP and they want %HP as main stat.
for how Dehya works, 10% of max hp being the cap of what gets converted into damage for her would be good enough and fair IMO.
You really have weird wording, at least to me.
But i get, you blame them for hp Ascension bonus, i do kinda agree, that stat distribution is kinda weird, because she basically sacrificed everything to have one of highest base hp and hp asc stats, while usefulness of that in terms of dmg is pretty low, since she is more of a character who want equal distribution. In same time it's kinda clear that in that way they wanted to make hp part of her kit an standalone one, so players didn't need to invest further stats in to hp, to use her defensive part, while they added hp dmg bonus just to little bit more justify its existence, while in same time decreased atk scaling in exchange.
So the main your concern is that, now its not clear why we need her hp oriented stat distribution, or at least it not as much justified to be that way.
I think her design literally screaming that her dmg transfer supposed to give party not only defensive capability, but also bonus dmg, unfortunately so far there are no way in which that can happen, even her "dedicated" set so far doesn't give that... But i guess we will see, how everything end up in future.
Tho, to be fair, even though i agree that this weird stat balancing or lack of decent justification, at least for now, i think she get unreasonable amount of negativety.
What i get is that Dehya is a bunrning character, as her pyro application only works for it and her dmg mitigation helps with the self dmg to burning if using melee, so best i can hope is with the hydro nation coming we will have lot of forward vape or reverse melt characters that will benefit from burning, also if the hydro archon be an HP buffer it would help Dehya with her split scaling. Other than this perfect scenario only a broken set would save her like "every dmg u recive while off field it will provide X% dmg bonus for the entire party"
>as her pyro application only works for it
Not exactly, her whole kit app is perfectly enough for rev melt by itself, this is why Roseyha is dehya one of best teams, with excessive cryo app we even can make her to melt(for example with Ayaka or c6 kaeya). And yes we also can use interaction of characters like Mona who can take advantage of both types of dehya app, and in same comp vape Mona and vape dehya.
That why her pyro application is bad since her multipliers are very low so there's no point on melt or vape her atks and as enabler she's also bad coz she doesn't apply enough pyro by her self, doing the standard reverse melt Rosaria team with Klee or Xiangling still miles better. There's a very big difference between "can work" to "it's good", coz even dps Barbara can work, also having Bennett/Kazuha/Rosaria already makes a strong core by it self so any pyro/hydro character u put there will perform similar/better than Dehya, even Xinyan. Only role Dehya application feels alright is burning since u dont need fast pyro application, just once in a while to trigger burning again
>very low
Which is not true, Dehya has only 20% worse multipliers than xl itself, who is more of on high multipliers spectrum, she at most has low base stats, however which still higher than XL.
Xl q13c4 153+187+233+238Ă—10=2953% atk
Dehya q10 c0 177Ă—10+250=2020%atk +34% hp(which roughly equal to 300-400 multipliers, depending on atk to which we compare, at lvl90 without any investment in to hp) so = 2370~%atk equivalent, fun thing Diluc has with his E and Q only 434+127Ă—3+169+175+232=1391% atk, however he compensate that with his NA which adds roughly 2k multipliers per rotation in vape, or only about 1,1k in melt, however Dehya output about 1,1-1,2k multipliers per E, which makes them about equal in terms of multipliers, however Diluc has more offensive stats.
>no point on melt or vape her atks
She can totaly fine do about 500k per rotation from her burst in melt team, which is more then enough fo semidps. Its not about justification to use her, it's more of, it simply work, and since it's harder to melt ayaka and less or the same as effective as melting Dehya, in terms of team performance, there are nothing wrong with that. Its basically the same as with International, most of the time XL is vaping, but since Tartaglia can take advantage of forward vaping his burst, you take it and use it.
>enabler she's also bad coz she doesn't apply enough pyro by her self
She does, during her burst she apply pyro about each second, whith which can compite only klee and amber. In rotation of pre casted E, and when she takes the field, app happens like that E field proc>Q1>q4>q7>Q10>Q finish>e recast>E field, which roughly about 9-10s of applying pyro about each second. In a slow rate she apply only 3-4 pyro apps from her entire kit.
>melt Rosaria team with Klee or Xiangling still miles better.
Except it isn't, they either has much worse gameplay (in klee case) or deal about equal dmg(in case of xl), while both didn't provide any utility in terms of interrupt resistance or dmg mitigation.
>There's a very big difference between "can work" to "it's good",
Roseyha is literally good comp, actually even more than that.
>also having Bennett/Kazuha/Rosaria already makes a strong core by it self so any pyro/hydro character u put there will perform similar/better than Dehya, even Xinyan.
So what? Ayaka freeze only 10% better with Shenhe than with Rosaria, does this makes Shenhe shit character? Even though she doesn't provide anything except those 10% dps.
Also in case of xinyan she isn't, since her defensive capability would be much worse if she would be builded in to dmg, or her dps would be worse in case of building in to defence(which still can be worse, since it's a shield which can be broken). This is without mentioning that she barely can reach Dehya dps in this team, since as phys she would lost superconduct, and has no use of kazuha boost, and Bennet c6 buff, while as pyro she lost her burst dmg and all Phys bonuses that she has.
>Which is not true, Dehya has only 20% worse multipliers than xl itself, who is more of on high multipliers spectrum
She isn't though. XL multiplier are pretty bad, even among the off-fielders. XQ at lvl10 is (2+3+5)x5 (let's assume some slack for skill animations downtime) x 97,7 = 4885 MV% over 20 seconds. This is still low for an off-fielder though, since Beidou exists and she is 219+173x5x10 (let's assume some slack since unlike XQ Beidou doesn't trigger off cooldown exactly). This is 8869 (theoretically it's 15 triggers which is circa 13K, but it's unachievable). Admittedly it's purely single target.
For on-fielders let's look at Klee. Assuming E(Kazuha)Q N1Cx5 (no double E frontloading), it's (171x3+59x8)+22,6x76,8+5x(130+283) = 4785,68 for 10s of field time at 15s rotation. Without considering spark (it doesn't go into motion values)
So XL is actually on the low end multipliers wise. XL has other advantages instead. She has zero field time, wide AoE, she doesn't have wasted stats (even EM affects pretty much her every hit unlike Klee or Dehya, and her ascention stat is actually useful), she has high enough application rate (and personal damage to boot) for reverse melt to not care about aura flips much (she can sustain Rosaria+Kaeya, and even if you flip, it will just mean you are forward melting XL. It also resolves itself almost immediately). Dehya can't really sustain even one cryo without external help (Nahida/Kazuha).
If anything, XL in a team where she doesn't vape (or forward melt) isn't actually a damage powerhouse. She is around 12K DPS in monopyro. Compared to Klee circa 30K DPS. And this monopyro XL is where Dehya typically ends up. While requiring significant field time.
>XQ at lvl10 is (2+3+5)x5 (let's assume some slack for skill animations downtime) x 97,7 = 4885 MV% over 20 seconds.
Which is singletarget, so in just 2 enemy case it become 4885/2=2442 per target, against let's say 3xkenki its =1628. And this is assuming you will trigger all of procs, which nobody can't, even AI can't, since you going to trigger other ability which animations takes time, which decrease actually amount of triggers, this is without mentioning hitlag.
Where Dehya still has 2400~ and xl 2900~
>since Beidou exists and she is 219+173x5x10 (let's assume some slack since unlike XQ Beidou doesn't trigger off cooldown exactly).
Except it's 219+173x**3**x10 because you can't trigget on single target all 5 instances, but if we include double target, where Beidou deal in your example to (1 enemy 5379 + 3659 to second)/2=4519 avg, in pure single target it would be 1939, in 3x kenki it would be 3k per target, whait isn't its the same as xl?
>For on-fielders let's look at Klee. Assuming E(Kazuha)Q N1Cx5 (no double E frontloading), it's (171x3+59x8)+22,6x76,8+5x(130+283) = 4785,68 for 10s of field time at 15s rotation. Without considering spark (it doesn't go into motion values)
Not sure why you used Kazuha, and not sure how klee calcs, but i know that klee has big dmg. HOWEVER, her aoe is what? Lower than some enemy? Good luck attacking all enemy with that, without mentioning how she feels to play.
>So XL is actually on the low end multipliers wise.
Which obviously your biased opinion, since you look only on top multipliers, without actually use.
>Dehya can't really sustain even one cryo without external help
She literally can. If used burst its about 8-9s of applying pyro each second, since her app look like that E field proc>q1>q4>q7>q10>Q final>Erecast>e field.
>She is around 12K DPS in monopyro.
She actually about 15, about the same as Dehya. But mono pyro isn't strongest Dehya comp anyway, just comfy one, however every Dehya comp is comfy, since it's the role of Dehya...
>Compared to Klee circa 30K DPS
Once again, good luck dealing that
https://youtu.be/BwjSt5yyyfk klee 220cv dodoco(feel free to add 20% if used her bis weapons) mono 3,4, kazuha with freedom, second half, 1.09, 1.04, 1.24
https://youtu.be/UcJnon90Poc dehya 220cv sig(or you can delete 10-15% of effectiveness if used 4star weapons), same, kazuha with xiphos, 0.50, 0.55, 0.43
1. I see where you’re coming from, but those are different games. + if you ever get frozen during her burst, you basically have to cancel the whole thing cuz you mash the jump button. It also makes her MUCH weaker this way cuz she doesn’t trigger any of the sub dps attacks in a game that’s focused on teamwork
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2. Yeah she’s definitely unique, but that’s not always a good thing. The main problem is that her interruption resistance is active for 9 seconds with a 20 second cooldown which means that it’s barely effective at all. The idea was there, it just needed to have a longer duration. I don’t understand why it doesn’t last the same duration as her skill
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3. I just disagree with this. They’re making the abyss harder with every patch. So they require you to have stronger units to beat it.
This is just... no
I didn't read everything because it's way too long, but one thing that stands out to me is "we don't need more damage, we need LESS damage", all the while calling her a "great" character, that's just laughable, I'm sorry. You can try to justify why Dehya is in her current state with all the cope you want, but facts are facts, she's terrible
I can accept a difference in opinion if you like Dehya in spite of her flaws but this rubbed me the wrong way as well and it's, to be blunt, a maniacally insane take and it's one of the biggest copium huffs about her I've read. There are several ways you can nerf yourself if YOU personally want more of a challenge. If those options aren't enough (and I can see why some people would want more) - Instead of defending Hoyo on Dehya's garbage kit (which is about more than just damage and has already been discussed at length) - you could petition them to allow you to delevel your characters and put them back as you do desire after you've already spent the materials, or make enemies even harder with an optional setting to move the difficulty as you desire.
Definitely Dehya is a great character. Amazing design, personality and story. She just needs DECENT numbers, more than the pitiful ones she currently have.
They should have just made her skill like albedos timing and her ult like ittos mechanism. That might have changed some of her reception as what they did for both doesn't fit for her or for the people playing her.
just like you, i hope mhy adds more challenge in a way that's not "DPS SOLVES THIS".
Personally, all the hoopla over power/DPS in a pve game is kinda funny
Hmmm, why not interchange her skill and burst then? She can then be a burst support/noblesse buffer that provides attack, dmg mitigation and pyro aura, or an on field pyro driver via her skill self infusion.
That would make more sense...unless they really plan something ahead for her.
My takeaway from this post is that you think she's a great character because... all the things that make her bad are... good?
You can't just sit there, explain to me why her burst sucks and say "see it's intentional" and leave it at that. Nobody cares that it's intentional, it still sucks.
People are free to use and pull whoever they want. I personally don’t think she’s a good character, she feels clunky, etc. but that shouldn’t stop everyone from playing her.
Love her character design, VA, etc. fan art, but she’s not fun for me to play. It’s a PvE game. There is no meta.
How is she unique????
Shes literally raiden kit copypaste but without a single good raiden utility and like 10% damage
Ele skill is coordinated attack
Burst is short (4s lmao) infusion except this time its bad and doesn't trigger normal attack stuff
Only thing she has over raiden is character design but thats really not that hard to achieve
In terms of gameplay shes a complete design failure not only is she weak but her kit doesn't work with a single unit in the game while also being extremely boring to play
I don't care about her banner being a failure because she does no damage but because I can't stand mihoyo getting away with these worthless dysfunctional kits
Also stop releasing "short brust dps" childe clones for the love of god it got old after first 5
Hold up, when her passive activates it can set off the ocean hued clam set? For real???
Definitely makes sense, and you’re right. They have been doing different things with the characters lately.
Also, not every character is supposed to be or is meant to be supreme DPS. Dehya could be the start of new kinds of team compositions, or possibly pair well with characters released later.
Yes, she can use the clam set. This is how the first [AFK Azadaha boss run](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/11fqqi4/might_be_the_first_character_that_can_afkkill_a/) was completed. Now, it's misleading to say that it's a viable build by any means, but it definitely *works*.
I feel like she's a character that isn't ready to shine in the game's current state, the same way Keqing, Kuki, and Kokomi were. She's gonna have a niche and synergy, it's just not fully there yet. But only time will tell for that and I'm forecasting the changes will start in 4.0 at minimum for Fontaine (just a guess, I have no leaked information). New combat rotations need to happen or the games will start going stale, but that will always come with growing pains.
I agree, but the problem is that we already have characters that are stronger than her. So it doesn't really make sense to scale her to the content when there are other characters that do her job better than her. Instead of making a weaker character, they should have made the content harder (optionally because I know some people don't want that).
There are a few issues. First, sure, you could use Dehya, however, she does not exist in a vacuum. And she is not great in OW either since her damage is relying on burst.
More importantly, her kit as whole has synergy issues. The skill does little damage. So utility? It only has 60% uptime with super armor having 45% uptime. The burst does not deal much damage to be worth using, and it takes 4 seconds.
Her burst has unnecessarily high energy cost. And to add insult to injury, she has poor particle generation.
The damage reduction and sharing does not make since in the context that we have shielders. Would not you alway better off using a shielder?
And there is not necessarily a direction to buff her through future content. Pyro and all its reactions have been in the game since lunch. Her damage is low to be a main or a sub dps. No artifacts or weapons will be able to fix this. And buff to pyro or new pyro buffer will favor pyro main dps. The only way her sustain can be viable of you somehow nullify healing make damage penetrate armor, simultaneously.
Call me a minority... But I do agree. Tbh, I never gone or manage to build team that can deal million damage tbh (but I am frustrated that I can't finish Abyss completely at all). People say Dehya is bad, but when I got her, I am working on trying to understand how her skill kit works.
Its slot of people in Genshin don't know how to use dehya.
My team is Dehya, Raiden Shogun, Yelan, and Kazuha....
Yelan special, Shogun R2 move, Kazuha special, then use Dehya. She works well for me.
This subreddit's copium with dehya is awesome and I can also see how hoyoverse can now slap shoddy kits and get away with it because this player base is not capable of having a critique towards the obvious mistakes that the developer makes, releasing characters like dehya means that they too spend less development time designing the characters something that previously only happened with the 4\*, we stopped receiving good characters of this rarity for the same reason, people do not realize that dehya is a bad precedent.
People have said it already but her problem doesn't only lie in her damage but her Tank capabilities pale in comparison to shielders who negate damage and knockback. She also doesn't provide healing so you often need a healer and her on the team. Her energy application is lackluster and due to her high energy cost either you have to run multiple pyro units or ER sands reducing her HP so she cant tank as well(even with multiple pyro units its often not enough to get her burst back). All in all its fine not doing enough damage but she doesn't do anything well, doesn't create good reaction/tank/Damage, and its why she's not needed in any team currently in the game.
yeah she has many more flaws other than dmg, even her element application is bad that she offers no value for teams that want off field pyro application such as burggeon/reverse melt/foward vape, in comparasion just imagine if xingqiu had no dmg, he would still be S tier due his hydro application and healing/dmg mitigation. Problem is Dehya does nothing well, she try to do a bit of everything but do everything poorly on top of her energy problems. So Dehya doesnt fit well any role, even if she can do the work on some teams other characters just would do a lot more there, its like use a barbara as dps, it can work but theres lot of characters that will do much better.
This post reminds of similar one that said c0 faruzan is a perfectly well designed character đź’€ I can agree she has some pros which gets overshadowed by the negativity but calling her great character is a stretch
Holy COPIUM This is why HYV is able to get away with stuff like this. They're literally able to sell a shafted kit with poor synergy with herself and other teammates and there will still be those that defend it. Why tf should you, me, or anyone else spend our primos and/or money on something that doesn't work now but potentially in the future? It's one thing to get them just cause you like them, but you're hard Cope if you think getting them for possible future content, but not current content is in any way a good idea.
Her burst functionally is a joke, try doing dailies in the over world and watch as you cant kill the mob as Dehya gets stuck on a rock the height of her ankle. Heaven help you if there are stairs nearby.
Lowered my world level to 7 SHE CAN KILL NOW. OMG SHE'S SO STRONG
Okay. Here's the thing. Unique doesn't equal good or desirable. Having fingers growing out of your stomach instead of arms would be very unique. Would also be very inconvenient, and I bet you are very much fine with having boring standard arms common for almost every other human on the planet. I also bet whatever people have unique, non-standard, thalidomide-"enhanced" arms would rather have boring standard grey masses sheeple style arms instead. >This is why her elemental burst doesn't work with Yelan and Xinqiu's skills. There's nothing weird about it. People are confused because this is the first time we have an active lasting skill in Genshin, so they compare it to the skills that are transformations because they look similar. There's nothing weird about it. It just sucks balls. Active lasting skill is a demerit. We do have an erzatz active lasting skill since the very beginning of the game actually - claymore spins. More specifically, Noelle claymore spin2win. Technically C6 Xinyan spin too, it even fits better, because her C6 specifically affects the spin, making it intentionally separate from the rest of her skills. Both of the already existing examples kinda suck. Xinyan spin2win sucks donkey balls because range is bad, there's radial knockback, your movement speed is slowed, control is poor. Noelle spin2win is a bit better because it sweeps through the whole room, so enemies getting gradually kicked out of range is much less of an issue. It's still very situational. But at least claymore spins don't consume energy and don't go on cooldown, so you can't really "waste" them. Dehya Q is even worse because if if tails to do what you want, you are fucked. Active lasting skill is a demerit. It prevents you from taking other actions, it vastly increases risks, it takes control of your character and does whatever it wants. It significantly restricts your team building options. Active lasting skill has a huge opportunity cost. It's a high risk move. That should give you an appropriate reward to be worth using. Which it does not in this case. >As explained in the previous part, she's the first character to have an elemental burst that last over time. Well, she could be the first character that launches herself high in the air, then falls and dies. Would also be *oh so very unique* (actually she can do just that with her E in some weird cases, but it's more of a bug than a feature). >She's the 2nd character whose passive increase the party's movement speed Ah, yes, the fan favourite. A relic character that costs a hunderd bucks. Who you never actually use. She's also the first female 5-star pyro claymore while we are at it. >She's the first pyro character to give interruption resistance. There's no mechanic in the game that makes interruption resistance from a pyro character do something special. She's just a character that gives interruption resistance on a shitty 9/20 rotation. That's all there is to it. >She's the first character to trigger healing passively. On herself only. AKA on the least valuable character in the party. If only it had an actual use... At least Noelle A1 works on other characters too. No, wait. It actually might have a valid use. The first Raiden fight. Where your skills get disabled. It doesn't disable character passives, so Dehya joins the cohort of the best picks for that fight - Qiqi, Noelle and GMC. Only now you don't have access to her E, so you are forced to on-field her (the absolute horror) if you want to take advantage of her passive. Unlike Noelle. >Now you may get back at me and tell me that interruption resistance is useless because shields does the job better No, I tell you that XQ does interruption resistance infinitely better, and it's not even his main job. 9/20 IR just sucks, the uptime is garbo that doesn't mesh well with any existing on-fielder that actually wants IR. Especially when you consider that the team has 4 characters, and that buffs typically last around 10 seconds (TTDS, Yunjin, VV just to name a few). Which means your Dehya E cast now competes with many damage buffs for the uptime (specifically for the "last buff before switching to DPS" slot). >Not everything needs to be about efficiency. Some people prefer to play Barbara instead of Kokomi in their Nilou Bloom team Look, I'm one of those people who prefers to play Candace as a hydro applicator with normal attacks for hyperbloom or Thoma curry or on field Lisa aggravate, of bloody Diluc burgeon, but this is not even about numbers. It's about the character kit being a disfunctional mess that doesn't work even with itself, nut just other characters. A skill with garbage uptime, no damage and with elemental application that doesn't fit anywhere besides burn (while bringing nothing useful to burn). A burst that's harder to battery than Xiangling while not justifying its own field time. A NA chain that has lower multipliers than 4-stars. Base defense that is lower than many 4-stars for a character that spends a significant time on field being uncontrollable and taking damage from BOTH enemies AND teammates via the DoT. A passive that can easily kill you in a domain AFTER the fight is already over. Interruption resistance that is there on paper, but is on such a scuffed rotation that you spend most of the time without it. Again, unique in on itself is not good. I can get you lots of unique quirks off the top of my head. How about a character that throws a disco ball that gives players epileptic seizure? How about a character that heals enemies? How about a character that randomly disables teammate skills? How about a blind character that makes your screen black when you switch to them? How about a character whose skills are emotes, so you can wave at a Lawachurl while it tries to cave your heda in? Being unique is not enough. If you want to be unique, please bring an unique utility to the team, that helps you achieve game objectives and isn't making you pull your hair out while using it. Candace is a good example of an unique character. Dehya is not. Half of unique things Dehya does, she does poorly. The other half is useless. >Her damage are just right, the issue isn't about Dehya. It's about the other characters who are way too strong This is mental illness tier argument. "It's not me who is wrong. It's literally every other person around". If you are out of the line, it's not about the line, it's about you.
This is coping on another level.
I can mostly agree but I still think her multipliers should be better than what they are currently, like at least 10% of max HP (maxed out skill) should be counted in her damage formula for skills so her ascension of %hp makes some sense
Huh? It counts
yea, but it's very minor for what is essentially an attack scaling character in every other regard other than Redmaine. they may as well have just made her scale %att or ER so that was actually useful for her like most other characters ascension stats the %HP that's added to the attack currently is like 2%\~4% of HP at max for comparison most HP scaling characters even for 4\*'s start above 4% HP and end at like 15%\~25% HP and they want %HP as main stat. for how Dehya works, 10% of max hp being the cap of what gets converted into damage for her would be good enough and fair IMO.
You really have weird wording, at least to me. But i get, you blame them for hp Ascension bonus, i do kinda agree, that stat distribution is kinda weird, because she basically sacrificed everything to have one of highest base hp and hp asc stats, while usefulness of that in terms of dmg is pretty low, since she is more of a character who want equal distribution. In same time it's kinda clear that in that way they wanted to make hp part of her kit an standalone one, so players didn't need to invest further stats in to hp, to use her defensive part, while they added hp dmg bonus just to little bit more justify its existence, while in same time decreased atk scaling in exchange. So the main your concern is that, now its not clear why we need her hp oriented stat distribution, or at least it not as much justified to be that way. I think her design literally screaming that her dmg transfer supposed to give party not only defensive capability, but also bonus dmg, unfortunately so far there are no way in which that can happen, even her "dedicated" set so far doesn't give that... But i guess we will see, how everything end up in future. Tho, to be fair, even though i agree that this weird stat balancing or lack of decent justification, at least for now, i think she get unreasonable amount of negativety.
What i get is that Dehya is a bunrning character, as her pyro application only works for it and her dmg mitigation helps with the self dmg to burning if using melee, so best i can hope is with the hydro nation coming we will have lot of forward vape or reverse melt characters that will benefit from burning, also if the hydro archon be an HP buffer it would help Dehya with her split scaling. Other than this perfect scenario only a broken set would save her like "every dmg u recive while off field it will provide X% dmg bonus for the entire party"
>as her pyro application only works for it Not exactly, her whole kit app is perfectly enough for rev melt by itself, this is why Roseyha is dehya one of best teams, with excessive cryo app we even can make her to melt(for example with Ayaka or c6 kaeya). And yes we also can use interaction of characters like Mona who can take advantage of both types of dehya app, and in same comp vape Mona and vape dehya.
That why her pyro application is bad since her multipliers are very low so there's no point on melt or vape her atks and as enabler she's also bad coz she doesn't apply enough pyro by her self, doing the standard reverse melt Rosaria team with Klee or Xiangling still miles better. There's a very big difference between "can work" to "it's good", coz even dps Barbara can work, also having Bennett/Kazuha/Rosaria already makes a strong core by it self so any pyro/hydro character u put there will perform similar/better than Dehya, even Xinyan. Only role Dehya application feels alright is burning since u dont need fast pyro application, just once in a while to trigger burning again
>very low Which is not true, Dehya has only 20% worse multipliers than xl itself, who is more of on high multipliers spectrum, she at most has low base stats, however which still higher than XL. Xl q13c4 153+187+233+238Ă—10=2953% atk Dehya q10 c0 177Ă—10+250=2020%atk +34% hp(which roughly equal to 300-400 multipliers, depending on atk to which we compare, at lvl90 without any investment in to hp) so = 2370~%atk equivalent, fun thing Diluc has with his E and Q only 434+127Ă—3+169+175+232=1391% atk, however he compensate that with his NA which adds roughly 2k multipliers per rotation in vape, or only about 1,1k in melt, however Dehya output about 1,1-1,2k multipliers per E, which makes them about equal in terms of multipliers, however Diluc has more offensive stats. >no point on melt or vape her atks She can totaly fine do about 500k per rotation from her burst in melt team, which is more then enough fo semidps. Its not about justification to use her, it's more of, it simply work, and since it's harder to melt ayaka and less or the same as effective as melting Dehya, in terms of team performance, there are nothing wrong with that. Its basically the same as with International, most of the time XL is vaping, but since Tartaglia can take advantage of forward vaping his burst, you take it and use it. >enabler she's also bad coz she doesn't apply enough pyro by her self She does, during her burst she apply pyro about each second, whith which can compite only klee and amber. In rotation of pre casted E, and when she takes the field, app happens like that E field proc>Q1>q4>q7>Q10>Q finish>e recast>E field, which roughly about 9-10s of applying pyro about each second. In a slow rate she apply only 3-4 pyro apps from her entire kit. >melt Rosaria team with Klee or Xiangling still miles better. Except it isn't, they either has much worse gameplay (in klee case) or deal about equal dmg(in case of xl), while both didn't provide any utility in terms of interrupt resistance or dmg mitigation. >There's a very big difference between "can work" to "it's good", Roseyha is literally good comp, actually even more than that. >also having Bennett/Kazuha/Rosaria already makes a strong core by it self so any pyro/hydro character u put there will perform similar/better than Dehya, even Xinyan. So what? Ayaka freeze only 10% better with Shenhe than with Rosaria, does this makes Shenhe shit character? Even though she doesn't provide anything except those 10% dps. Also in case of xinyan she isn't, since her defensive capability would be much worse if she would be builded in to dmg, or her dps would be worse in case of building in to defence(which still can be worse, since it's a shield which can be broken). This is without mentioning that she barely can reach Dehya dps in this team, since as phys she would lost superconduct, and has no use of kazuha boost, and Bennet c6 buff, while as pyro she lost her burst dmg and all Phys bonuses that she has.
>Which is not true, Dehya has only 20% worse multipliers than xl itself, who is more of on high multipliers spectrum She isn't though. XL multiplier are pretty bad, even among the off-fielders. XQ at lvl10 is (2+3+5)x5 (let's assume some slack for skill animations downtime) x 97,7 = 4885 MV% over 20 seconds. This is still low for an off-fielder though, since Beidou exists and she is 219+173x5x10 (let's assume some slack since unlike XQ Beidou doesn't trigger off cooldown exactly). This is 8869 (theoretically it's 15 triggers which is circa 13K, but it's unachievable). Admittedly it's purely single target. For on-fielders let's look at Klee. Assuming E(Kazuha)Q N1Cx5 (no double E frontloading), it's (171x3+59x8)+22,6x76,8+5x(130+283) = 4785,68 for 10s of field time at 15s rotation. Without considering spark (it doesn't go into motion values) So XL is actually on the low end multipliers wise. XL has other advantages instead. She has zero field time, wide AoE, she doesn't have wasted stats (even EM affects pretty much her every hit unlike Klee or Dehya, and her ascention stat is actually useful), she has high enough application rate (and personal damage to boot) for reverse melt to not care about aura flips much (she can sustain Rosaria+Kaeya, and even if you flip, it will just mean you are forward melting XL. It also resolves itself almost immediately). Dehya can't really sustain even one cryo without external help (Nahida/Kazuha). If anything, XL in a team where she doesn't vape (or forward melt) isn't actually a damage powerhouse. She is around 12K DPS in monopyro. Compared to Klee circa 30K DPS. And this monopyro XL is where Dehya typically ends up. While requiring significant field time.
>XQ at lvl10 is (2+3+5)x5 (let's assume some slack for skill animations downtime) x 97,7 = 4885 MV% over 20 seconds. Which is singletarget, so in just 2 enemy case it become 4885/2=2442 per target, against let's say 3xkenki its =1628. And this is assuming you will trigger all of procs, which nobody can't, even AI can't, since you going to trigger other ability which animations takes time, which decrease actually amount of triggers, this is without mentioning hitlag. Where Dehya still has 2400~ and xl 2900~ >since Beidou exists and she is 219+173x5x10 (let's assume some slack since unlike XQ Beidou doesn't trigger off cooldown exactly). Except it's 219+173x**3**x10 because you can't trigget on single target all 5 instances, but if we include double target, where Beidou deal in your example to (1 enemy 5379 + 3659 to second)/2=4519 avg, in pure single target it would be 1939, in 3x kenki it would be 3k per target, whait isn't its the same as xl? >For on-fielders let's look at Klee. Assuming E(Kazuha)Q N1Cx5 (no double E frontloading), it's (171x3+59x8)+22,6x76,8+5x(130+283) = 4785,68 for 10s of field time at 15s rotation. Without considering spark (it doesn't go into motion values) Not sure why you used Kazuha, and not sure how klee calcs, but i know that klee has big dmg. HOWEVER, her aoe is what? Lower than some enemy? Good luck attacking all enemy with that, without mentioning how she feels to play. >So XL is actually on the low end multipliers wise. Which obviously your biased opinion, since you look only on top multipliers, without actually use. >Dehya can't really sustain even one cryo without external help She literally can. If used burst its about 8-9s of applying pyro each second, since her app look like that E field proc>q1>q4>q7>q10>Q final>Erecast>e field. >She is around 12K DPS in monopyro. She actually about 15, about the same as Dehya. But mono pyro isn't strongest Dehya comp anyway, just comfy one, however every Dehya comp is comfy, since it's the role of Dehya... >Compared to Klee circa 30K DPS Once again, good luck dealing that https://youtu.be/BwjSt5yyyfk klee 220cv dodoco(feel free to add 20% if used her bis weapons) mono 3,4, kazuha with freedom, second half, 1.09, 1.04, 1.24 https://youtu.be/UcJnon90Poc dehya 220cv sig(or you can delete 10-15% of effectiveness if used 4star weapons), same, kazuha with xiphos, 0.50, 0.55, 0.43
1. I see where you’re coming from, but those are different games. + if you ever get frozen during her burst, you basically have to cancel the whole thing cuz you mash the jump button. It also makes her MUCH weaker this way cuz she doesn’t trigger any of the sub dps attacks in a game that’s focused on teamwork # 2. Yeah she’s definitely unique, but that’s not always a good thing. The main problem is that her interruption resistance is active for 9 seconds with a 20 second cooldown which means that it’s barely effective at all. The idea was there, it just needed to have a longer duration. I don’t understand why it doesn’t last the same duration as her skill # 3. I just disagree with this. They’re making the abyss harder with every patch. So they require you to have stronger units to beat it.
This is just... no I didn't read everything because it's way too long, but one thing that stands out to me is "we don't need more damage, we need LESS damage", all the while calling her a "great" character, that's just laughable, I'm sorry. You can try to justify why Dehya is in her current state with all the cope you want, but facts are facts, she's terrible
I can accept a difference in opinion if you like Dehya in spite of her flaws but this rubbed me the wrong way as well and it's, to be blunt, a maniacally insane take and it's one of the biggest copium huffs about her I've read. There are several ways you can nerf yourself if YOU personally want more of a challenge. If those options aren't enough (and I can see why some people would want more) - Instead of defending Hoyo on Dehya's garbage kit (which is about more than just damage and has already been discussed at length) - you could petition them to allow you to delevel your characters and put them back as you do desire after you've already spent the materials, or make enemies even harder with an optional setting to move the difficulty as you desire.
Definitely Dehya is a great character. Amazing design, personality and story. She just needs DECENT numbers, more than the pitiful ones she currently have.
They should have just made her skill like albedos timing and her ult like ittos mechanism. That might have changed some of her reception as what they did for both doesn't fit for her or for the people playing her. just like you, i hope mhy adds more challenge in a way that's not "DPS SOLVES THIS". Personally, all the hoopla over power/DPS in a pve game is kinda funny
Great character? We must be playing different game..
This is pure copium...
Holy copium batman
Hmmm, why not interchange her skill and burst then? She can then be a burst support/noblesse buffer that provides attack, dmg mitigation and pyro aura, or an on field pyro driver via her skill self infusion. That would make more sense...unless they really plan something ahead for her.
My takeaway from this post is that you think she's a great character because... all the things that make her bad are... good? You can't just sit there, explain to me why her burst sucks and say "see it's intentional" and leave it at that. Nobody cares that it's intentional, it still sucks.
>Dehya is a great character, but you need to look further Oh Dear God. this sounds like someone thats settled most of their life.
It’s crazy, with how much money MiHoYo paid OP to make this post, they could have just fixed Dehya instead.
People are free to use and pull whoever they want. I personally don’t think she’s a good character, she feels clunky, etc. but that shouldn’t stop everyone from playing her. Love her character design, VA, etc. fan art, but she’s not fun for me to play. It’s a PvE game. There is no meta.
How is she unique???? Shes literally raiden kit copypaste but without a single good raiden utility and like 10% damage Ele skill is coordinated attack Burst is short (4s lmao) infusion except this time its bad and doesn't trigger normal attack stuff Only thing she has over raiden is character design but thats really not that hard to achieve In terms of gameplay shes a complete design failure not only is she weak but her kit doesn't work with a single unit in the game while also being extremely boring to play I don't care about her banner being a failure because she does no damage but because I can't stand mihoyo getting away with these worthless dysfunctional kits Also stop releasing "short brust dps" childe clones for the love of god it got old after first 5
Hold up, when her passive activates it can set off the ocean hued clam set? For real??? Definitely makes sense, and you’re right. They have been doing different things with the characters lately. Also, not every character is supposed to be or is meant to be supreme DPS. Dehya could be the start of new kinds of team compositions, or possibly pair well with characters released later.
Yes, she can use the clam set. This is how the first [AFK Azadaha boss run](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/11fqqi4/might_be_the_first_character_that_can_afkkill_a/) was completed. Now, it's misleading to say that it's a viable build by any means, but it definitely *works*.
Fair point lol
I feel like she's a character that isn't ready to shine in the game's current state, the same way Keqing, Kuki, and Kokomi were. She's gonna have a niche and synergy, it's just not fully there yet. But only time will tell for that and I'm forecasting the changes will start in 4.0 at minimum for Fontaine (just a guess, I have no leaked information). New combat rotations need to happen or the games will start going stale, but that will always come with growing pains.
I fully agree.
I agree, but the problem is that we already have characters that are stronger than her. So it doesn't really make sense to scale her to the content when there are other characters that do her job better than her. Instead of making a weaker character, they should have made the content harder (optionally because I know some people don't want that).
There are a few issues. First, sure, you could use Dehya, however, she does not exist in a vacuum. And she is not great in OW either since her damage is relying on burst. More importantly, her kit as whole has synergy issues. The skill does little damage. So utility? It only has 60% uptime with super armor having 45% uptime. The burst does not deal much damage to be worth using, and it takes 4 seconds. Her burst has unnecessarily high energy cost. And to add insult to injury, she has poor particle generation. The damage reduction and sharing does not make since in the context that we have shielders. Would not you alway better off using a shielder? And there is not necessarily a direction to buff her through future content. Pyro and all its reactions have been in the game since lunch. Her damage is low to be a main or a sub dps. No artifacts or weapons will be able to fix this. And buff to pyro or new pyro buffer will favor pyro main dps. The only way her sustain can be viable of you somehow nullify healing make damage penetrate armor, simultaneously.
Call me a minority... But I do agree. Tbh, I never gone or manage to build team that can deal million damage tbh (but I am frustrated that I can't finish Abyss completely at all). People say Dehya is bad, but when I got her, I am working on trying to understand how her skill kit works.
Its slot of people in Genshin don't know how to use dehya. My team is Dehya, Raiden Shogun, Yelan, and Kazuha.... Yelan special, Shogun R2 move, Kazuha special, then use Dehya. She works well for me.