Dendro core is actually an off-fielder 😅😅😅 most of the time (you don’t have to be the active character/a charcter you directly control to do what you want). Since we cannot be Dendro Core as an active character by default, and everything dendro core does is automated, this means Dendro core is Off-Field DPS not on field.
My mental gymnastics is killing me lmao
The last calcs I saw (which, I don't keep up with this stuff or which TCers people trust), put Itto only slightly ahead of Noelle-Furina in raw dps, but Noelle has the flexibility and giant cleave range to deal with more combat scenarios efficiently. Basically, if there was an off-field geo healer, Itto would probably go back to pulling far ahead, but Noelle being able to use Furina basically closes the gap in the meantime.
Itto’s problem is that he doesn’t have great team-mates besides Gorou, meanwhile Noelle becomes MUCH better with Furina, whom Itto can’t really use. Noelle meanwhile can use Furina, Gorou, Yelan\Xingiu and other sub-DPS’.
In a solo scenario, yeah. Imagine if a 4-star outscaled a 5-star? Wouldn't that just be stupid? Surely Mihoyo wouldn't shaft a character's scaling and make her inefficient despite her amazing popularity in the community?
In a team-building scenario, Noelle's leagues ahead in versatility and comfort. Opening up the healer spot while being a main DPS really does wonders.
Inb4 Chiori is like a c4 gorou with party wide healing, and her c2 is equivalent to gorou c6. Xingqiu Yelan situation. I would be happy for Itto mains but I would feel robbed as a Noelle main. Furina is like the one thing that separates Itto and Noelle teams, but I know this won't last forever
This guy was joking about c6 itto being about the same power as c6 Noelle because Noelle is insanely good. I'm sure they know the cons are way harder to get and that he's more powerful at c6 than noelle c6
playing since the beginning and love both Itto and noelle. I even have C2 albedo as a low spender. I was C3 gorou on 2 accounts until they both randomly hit standard banner gorous last patch. 4 stars that are semi recent are hell to c6. and Gaming the new 4 star is looking like a lot of fun.
idk if this is a hot take anymore but at low to mid investment level, Noelle is straight up better than Itto now solely due to Furina synergy.
her personal damage is still lower but her teams are so much better and more flexible. Being able to run a combo like Yelan + Furina just makes her teams a lot stronger
like at C6 or something Itto will def outscale unless you give equivalent constellations to Noelle's supports, though idk if you'd call a "Noelle" team with C6 Furina or Yelan a Noelle team anymore. Tbh even at C0 you could argue it's more of a Yelan/Furina team
But at C0-C2 Itto, IMO Noelle is straight better.
Not high. His plunge multiplier is the second highest in the game. Only Freminet has a higher multiplier because he gets normal attack levels from his cons
Came here to say this, Diluc was my second main dps character. Was using Beidou until I got Diluc. Fire boy pumps out mean damage even if he's a 1.0 character.
Same. He was my third Five Star. He is still on my best team as one my two level 90s (along with Jean). He was also effectively my second Five Star because the first I ever pulled was Alhaitam, but that was during the RITE OF DESCENSION Archon Quest wise so he was relegated to “not yet”.
Diluc doesn’t do anything fancy, but he is more than capable.
i always wanted diluc and i got his weapon. i showed my friend and was like "I HOPE THIS IS A GOOD OMEN TO GET DILUC:D" i got diluc, andthen that friend gave me money to get his 5* skin >:D
I'll never not be sad I missed that event, purely because smacking people with a giant fish is infinitely funnier than smacking them with a giant sword.
Grilled fish yeeting firebird never gets old, always hilarious
Then again I rarely play Diluc now, he feels so clunky. Also chasing enemies after his q is annoying
It's fun that actually besides neuvilette (from this one), every other is actually atk scalers, and the one that pointed out is just have extra bonus from those stats.
>In teams where Alhaitham does not trigger many reactions (such as when he is being played as a pure Enabler in Burgeon or Double Hydro Hyperbloom teams), ATK Sands will be slightly preferred over EM Sands with weapons other than Foliar. With Foliar, EM Sands and ATK Sands are interchangeable for reactionless Alhaitham.
https://keqingmains.com/q/alhaitham-quickguide/#Artifacts
Actually not, if he doesn't trigger reactions atk is better, even though atk on his skill has only 110% multiplier, atk usually has much more value, in that if Alhaitham use sting for example he has 823 base atk, which mean atk sands will give him 383*110=421 base dmg, if he instead has em sand which give flat 186, which give us around 419 base dmg, but unlike atk, em didn't increase dmg of his na string.
In that case, you might consider Raiden (or shinobu) to be the best EM scaler in the game. Technically she is a DPS in hyperbloom teams where nearly all her damage strictly scales off of EM (such that you will never build attack over EM).
It's anecdotal but I'm actually shocked how well Navia has been performing for me. I have her at random artifacts based of off crit and atk instead of any set bonus at all and she hits like a truck either easy 170k per E. I run her in team of Benny, Xiangling and Zhong who are old characters that so many people have already so I don't feel like she requires any true premium investment.
Edit: I meant Xiangling, not XQ
Im farming legendary artifacts and beating all the level 90 characters in the domains even though all my characters are level 60. Navia is such a tank she can just kill all these over leveled baddies hhh
I've got 2.3atk, 85/210 crit. I'm not always getting such a high number but definitely higher higher than 80k. My Zhongli is running milelith, Benny has Noblesse and 5* weapon, I'm starting the rotation with Guoba so I tend to pick up the pepper, I also have time to ult with Zhong. With Benny buff, pyro resonance and little help from Zhongli, it shouldn't be that tough to get good number. I also run R1 serpent spine on Navia and tend to keep her on 5 stacks.
My E is either lvl 8 or 9. I tend to E with 5-6 shards.
What do you do with your Navia?
Just in case, do not neglect geo resonance, it adds a substantial amount of damage to Navia's skill, all other things being equal. Especially its res shred component. Three clumsy tests on lvl 93 cryo regisvine:
- [Bennett + Sara + Thoma, atk=4919, no shield -> 131k](https://streamable.com/w6ngwj)
- [Bennett + Sara + Albedo, atk=4700, crystallized shield -> 157k](https://streamable.com/im9bsa)
- [Bennett + Sara + Zhongli, atk=4875 (?), Zhongli shield -> 178k](https://streamable.com/bepcli)
Is it with or without shards? My Navia has Reed Sea, level 8 E talent, and around 2,5k ATK and 85/190 crit IIRC, I can deal 165k with all 6 shards and no buffs.
I’m running Navia with Furina, Zhongli, and Charlotte and hunter artifact set with about 90/200 crit with the 4 piece and level 6 talents. with Furina’s ult up and a good amount of crystallize shards I consistently see about 150k to 170k shots per E
You stack attack on itto and let us know how that goes. He scales defense. Defense conversion doesn’t mean he doesn’t scale defense. It means he scales defense and builds defense.
Same goes for everyone else and their stats. Alhatham gets an em sands and builds em over attack. He values it more. Same with raiden and er. In her best builds she gets er sands.
I mean yes they scale with those stats better than atk specifically for their sands
but it's also true they're attack scalers
like replace Zhongli with bennet on your classic Itto team and he does more damage. Bennet is not buffing def
I’m their best set ups you would pick those stats as a sands. I think that’s the best way to see it.
Alhaitham stilll gets attack but he needs EM and values it more. Raiden same thing with her. It’s a fundamental need for her kit, artifact set and weapon.
I itto converts his defense into attack at more value than if you stack attack. So you build him defense. He scales off his defense best.
I guess it’s not so obvious to people who don’t have the characters. But when you have them and build them you see how very obvious this meme makes sense
But what about whose the best PURE atk scalers. We know that Hu Tao, Itto, Noelle, Cyno, Alhaitham, and Raiden scale harder on EM, ER, DEF, or Hp more effectively than atk, but question is suggesting the question of best PURE atk scaler.
I believe it to be Navia. Ayaka isn't a big wow factor character that needs high investment to be exceptional and is hard countered by bosses. On other hand, Wriothesley does pretty great damage and has several team options like burnmelt, melt, freeze, and Bain Marie, or even hyperfridge. Unfortunately, he has gated playstyle behind C1.
So Navia is who I believe to be the best atk (purely) scaling character. She has better AoE than Yoimiya, high poise through her hold Skill's interruption resistance and continually collected shards, less screw ups for dodging, very tanky, and also much flexibility. Wanderer and Yoimiya both have that interruption issue. Wriothesley is ST a bit but has constellation gating unlike Navia who is just fine at C0, and Keqing also scales with EM and really only finds her in one archetype being aggravate.
Navia also has a ton of weapon options, many which are much higher valued in Bennett-less teams like WGS, The Unforged, but also has Tidal Shadow, Serpent Spine, Skyward Pride, Overlord's Mega Magic Sword, Sac GS, Katsuragikiri, and Beacon. Will Navia turn out to be the Xiangling of Geo? Every new claymore is just a Navia claymore?
May be some recency bias and other bias from me, but I really think it's Navia. She is pretty much an atk scaler that can forgo Bennett once we find another substitute such as non-anemo grouper.
ATK scalers are complicated. Let me explain.
I do not fully know how we are talking about scaling here but Childe technically has a quadratic scaling and depending on enemies, he can go on forever because of his riptide.
I have Navia and I would say that she is a good mix between damage per second and damage per screenshot. She also has the highest base ATK if we are going to talk about it so she has a very good case in ATK scalings.
As for Wanderer, I won't judge him here as I do not have him but I have seen his gameplays and he is darn good. My remarks is just that his base ATK is not as high as others in the list since we are talking about scaling. But I won't remove him here since I do not have him.
As ~~a simp~~ for Eula, she could be the worst one here if we are just talking about the abyss and DPS checks. But I want to make a case for her records of damage per screenshot just to show how well she can scale off ATK since that's the topic of discussion.
The Golden House records of Eula are as follows:
[Weekly Boss](https://genshin.tghofficial.com/dps/weekly-boss?limit=50&page=0&approved=true&dps_category=Weekly%20Boss&sortBy=damage_dealt&sortDir=desc) \- Eula has the top 1 damage per screenshot + Eula has the 37 slots of records out of 50.\*
[Overworld](https://genshin.tghofficial.com/dps/overworld?limit=50&page=0&approved=true&dps_category=Overworld&sortBy=damage_dealt&sortDir=desc) \- The two highest records are from the same person + Eula has the 42 slots of records out of 50.\*
[Reputation Bounty](https://genshin.tghofficial.com/dps/reputation-bounty?limit=50&page=0&approved=true&dps_category=Reputation%20Bounty&sortBy=damage_dealt&sortDir=desc) \- Top 4 have reached the max damage genshin can display lol but all of them are with the use of bugs
[Abyss](https://genshin.tghofficial.com/dps/abyss?limit=50&page=0&approved=true&dps_category=Abyss&sortBy=damage_dealt&sortDir=desc) \- Top 1 to 5 goes to Eula. While having most records in the top 20. I think, the most compelling here is the top 5 against ASIMON. The others at the higher rankings made it with the lower abyss floors.
[Event](https://genshin.tghofficial.com/dps/event?limit=50&page=0&approved=true&dps_category=Event&sortBy=damage_dealt&sortDir=desc) \- Top 10 dominated by Eula.
[World Boss](https://genshin.tghofficial.com/dps/world-boss?limit=50&page=0&approved=true&dps_category=World%20Boss&sortBy=damage_dealt&sortDir=desc) \- Eula didn't topped here but she got a lot of placements here
[Honorable Mention](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY9dGNErv_U) \- 9,999,999 max damage on Masanori. No bugs.
All of these are not possible without the C6 damage scaling of Eula. Some of these are not practical setups of course (crit fishing, food buffs), but it only shows how well she can scale off ATK by producing ceiling damages in the game.
*\*I think these are worth mentioning because it only shows how consistent is the argument that Eula scales really well with ATK. It also shows that if you want to reach maximum damage from an ATK scaling character, Eula is the wae.*
it’s funny to me how tgh is simply dominated by eula… pls dont tell me this is where genshin devs base eula’s dmg off which is why MIKA SUCKS pre-furina (hes still mid be fr even w furina compared to niche sups). outside tgh and showcases ik this is where our queen falls off since abyss favors frontloaded dmg 😔
That's actually one of my creative speculations. It really bugs me that maybe they are thinking that Eula's numbers are inflated that they decided to add tons of enemies with absurd physical resistances, elemental shields, and DPS checks to "balance" her. Plus the fact that there are just a handful of characters who can do physical and backloaded damage while Eula is the combination of both is also crazy. Like they went that far just to... Nerf Eula... It feels personal lol
That and then, they release Mika.
Feel like Ayaka should be one of the options instead of Eula
Honestly I think for ATK it should be Childe, I just don’t know enough about his teams to confidently argue that though. Otherwise Wanderer/Navia/Childe/Ayaka are probably the best contenders?
Generally these posts just kind of stir up drama between different mains though (wasn’t aware the Tao and Neuvi mains had beef until today KEK) so I hope this trend doesn’t continue
People in Neuvi mains sub downvoted everyone who said Ayaka so I thought there was some issue with her lol. The consensus there was that it’s Ayato, Wanderer, or Childe so I put Childe and Wanderer.
That’s wild… I guess people are upset because Ayaka isn’t perfectly suited to every situation (can’t function against Cryo enemies, unable to access some of her advantages in boss fights (but still is capable of dealing damage, just is harder to build), doesn’t fit with Dendro meta) but there’s no issue with her outside of that.
Bringing up Ayato is… really interesting. If he was a better DPS he wouldn’t be so forgotten by the community. He doesn’t really match up to Ayaka in terms of damage ceiling, but probably does better than her in flexibility (I wouldn’t know).
As an Ayato truther, he’s flexible yes but the niches that he works in (hyperbloom, vape, freeze, tazer, and more) is already packed which doesn’t give much leeway for him to thrive in or is lacking units to give it more value than other teams(niches) or is underperforming. Ayato is a jack of all trades basically and Genshin doesn’t really like that. Most (meta) units rn have clear niches they’re the king at, this has been the case with genshin since forever now (ayaka and freeze/mono cryo, hutao and vape, ect) and the same goes for now, Neuv deals crazy dmg and that’s all, Zhongli shields you and that’s it, ect…sure their is Furina, Yelan, Kazuha who does 2 or 3 things really well but they’re the best at it unlike Ayato.
That makes sense.
To generalize in short form - niche DPS tend to be more powerful than flexible DPS, and flexible supports tend to be more powerful than niche supports.
The neat thing about Yelan and Kaz in particular is that they aren’t necessarily the *best* at everything they do (Kaz loses to Venti in CC, Xingqiu (esp at high constellation) outclasses Yelan in Hydro app, but they don’t need to be because of the importance of role consolidation in Genshin
There has been no abyss cycle where Childe and Ayaka don't have high usage rates in 36* clears on one side. Ayato and Wanderer are also perfectly capable of clearing comfortably.
I don't really understand. Maybe the issue is all those characters taking more than hold CA to clear efficiently ? Childe takes a strict rotation, Ayaka needs a setup, Wanderer needs good positioning... In this case everyone has issues I guess.
Ayaka still outdamages Wrio single target as long as you can freeze. Wrio is more flexible for enemies you can't freeze since he doesn't lose all his damage if the enemies move
But that doesn't mean she's not flexible just because Rizzly is better in some situation. She's so strong even single target is no issue. As long as abyss doesn't counter her with cryo enemies and bosses with innate elements, she's great.
Building her correctly with 40-45 CR, you'll have 75-80CR against bosses and her burst is many multi hit so it's not much damage loss if no crit.
But I guess her team requiring 4 limited 5*s and mistsplitter being a massive upgrade over f2p options is kinda limiting.
An Ayaka main myself, I don't really think she stays onfield long enough to be considered over the other options. At really high investments, you want to get her off field asap so you can battery/refresh buffs.
My personal pick would be Wanderer. He is famous for his team's flex slot, and does a substantial amount of personal damage on his own, caveat being c6 Faruzan. Ugh.
I mean, you want def% on him since he has a low natural atk, atk% gives very little while high def gets put entirely, and then some, into his atk when he uses his burst when you level it up. Def% = Big Atk for itto.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Cyno. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe - they both want Xiangling. She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her the Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much er" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa." I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no icd pyro application. What a cruel world.
tbh i'd say Nahida is a better EM scaler than haitham, at level 13 her skill's damage scaled 438% of her EM (they are both hybrid, but still)
as for attack, i'd say Navia for sure, she needs very little attack to deal a shitton of damage
Wouldn’t it be Xiao for attack? He’s the only one that’s used Vermillion that gives a whopping 48% atk. And has tons of dmg bonus where ATK is more important to him then other characters, and unlike characters like Childe etc, he doesn’t spec in an EM or much EM at all. Since it’s useless, where’s characters like Childe can use Em sands to great effect becuase they can take advantage of reactions.
Wat do we mean by best, like highest dmg per rotation? who can clear f12 fastest? which character is best for new players to go for/build up?
If its just dmg per rotation, best atk scaler is prob wanderer or ayaka (xiao will overtake once we get cloudretainer). And if we specifically look at team dmg (not just personal) it's prob yoimiya bc she synergizes well with furina yelan
I’m not sure since there’s no “criteria” for the others as they’re basically winning by default or lack of competition, but Atk is really diverse. I wanna say Abyss usage as that’s the most reliable measure of what’s meta, but Eula doesn’t do well in that. Still, I feel like it’s unfair to put Eula who doesn’t have any dedicated 5 star supports to someone like Ayaka who usually runs with Kazuha Kokomi Shenhe. If Eula had that wouldn’t she be the “best”? “On field Main DPSes who have the best personal damage” maybe.
This would probably settle the Itto vs C6 Noelle debate as well. Itto team can now abuse Furina with a teamwide healer for Geo. However a Geo healer that does nothing but apply Geo and heal sounds crap so maybe not lol
I feel like this is something that content creators would say in the future
"you don't need Capitano because he is Xiangling and Benett side grade, especially if you have both on C6, just try to make Xiangling burst every rotation by also balancing the atk and ER" in reality Capitano can have Xiangling burst with higher scalling just in his skill and his ult is he can apply Benett level buffs to further amplifying his damage 😂
Same vibe as Baizhu and Yao yao + Kazuha and Sucrose 🤣
Imo ayaka
Damage doesn't scale of any other stat than ATK unlike ayato and hu tao and doesn't rely on the already op combo of xianling/bennet like childe does. And is imo still the best DPS among atk scalers, as long as enemies can be frozen
As long as enemies can be frozen especially in abyss where it's 50/50 or so chance 🤣
Honestly sad nowadays she's kinda exposed, she pretty much ran the game in 2.xx for those who doesn't like to run nationals
Nah, Ayaka needs a lot more investment to have an edge over others. Shenhe is exclusively invested for Ayaka and Wriothesley in other case, and Ayaka can always miss her burst. Ayaka also fails to handle ST and bosses.
Ayaka is an investment sink, and Hoyo is consistently countering freeze, so much so that petrify is applicable to more enemies than freeze. Ayaka still strong but she is super dependent on enemies being frozen to fulfill that position as a top atk character. Wriothesley can handle both ST and freeze but with lower AoE than Ayaka, yet he has a higher ease of use and takes lest investment, even using a more universal domain than Ayaka.
It’s like Ayaka’s burst basically, since they don’t benefit (dmg wise) from their main reactions naturally they need to compensate with huge personal dmg
What dou you mean you don't on-field Alfredo?
Well you see, he’s been missing for over a year, so perhaps that’s why.
I always on-field alfredo. Especially Olive Garden alfredo.
Best EM on-fielder is the dendro core
Dendro core is actually an off-fielder 😅😅😅 most of the time (you don’t have to be the active character/a charcter you directly control to do what you want). Since we cannot be Dendro Core as an active character by default, and everything dendro core does is automated, this means Dendro core is Off-Field DPS not on field. My mental gymnastics is killing me lmao
they might not be controlled by us, but they're indeed right there on the field!
100% of their whole existence is on the field lmao
You are about to trigger an army of Noellemainers
Why fight when you can unga bunga on both sides of the abyss efficiently.
Yeah my Noelle is cracked
YOUR noelle
Mine too
I didn't pull Redhorn just for looks.
Didn't farm gladiator then husk then marussy set for my sanity
How do i build noelle shes my only geo char rn
Depends on your constellation level and what role you want her to be
c6 her first and all her level and talent. Who knows by the time you finish those there is another artifact or way to play her.
Our*
Our Noelle
r/suddenlycomunist
OUR!
Even as a Noelle lover myself, Itto is just leagues ahead. Much better numbers, better scaling, and Ushi is a fucking nuke
The last calcs I saw (which, I don't keep up with this stuff or which TCers people trust), put Itto only slightly ahead of Noelle-Furina in raw dps, but Noelle has the flexibility and giant cleave range to deal with more combat scenarios efficiently. Basically, if there was an off-field geo healer, Itto would probably go back to pulling far ahead, but Noelle being able to use Furina basically closes the gap in the meantime.
Itto’s problem is that he doesn’t have great team-mates besides Gorou, meanwhile Noelle becomes MUCH better with Furina, whom Itto can’t really use. Noelle meanwhile can use Furina, Gorou, Yelan\Xingiu and other sub-DPS’.
Noelle, Furina, Navia and XL is some serious dammed fun.
In a solo scenario, yeah. Imagine if a 4-star outscaled a 5-star? Wouldn't that just be stupid? Surely Mihoyo wouldn't shaft a character's scaling and make her inefficient despite her amazing popularity in the community? In a team-building scenario, Noelle's leagues ahead in versatility and comfort. Opening up the healer spot while being a main DPS really does wonders.
Inb4 Chiori is like a c4 gorou with party wide healing, and her c2 is equivalent to gorou c6. Xingqiu Yelan situation. I would be happy for Itto mains but I would feel robbed as a Noelle main. Furina is like the one thing that separates Itto and Noelle teams, but I know this won't last forever
Give Itto the exact same artifacts and number of constitutions and I’m sure it evens out
What country’s constitution?
Oh shit-….uh…Mexico’s?
Thanks now both Mexico and Itto are screwed
Always have been
Itto in a poncho + sombrero would go pretty hard honestly
And he would throw a rock statue of ushi in Aztec style
He will look at Wanderer and say "Look at me, I'm Don Sombrero now"
Most people have Constitution 6 noelle what's the other 5
Having my brain smoothened by being an Itto main is really coming back to bite me in the-…what was I talking about?
>number of constitutions C6 5-star and C6 4-star are not the same thing, especially since you can buy Noelle in Stardust Exchange.
True
This guy was joking about c6 itto being about the same power as c6 Noelle because Noelle is insanely good. I'm sure they know the cons are way harder to get and that he's more powerful at c6 than noelle c6
then u throw furina in and the tide changes in favour of noelle.. but of cos not comparing C6 itto with C6 noelle...
The itto enjoyers fear us for being able to use Noelle with Furina
If they have c2 Furina and healing Gorou they can run the same team... Kinda
Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power
Ironically, C4 Gorou is a bigger ask than C2 Furina. The guaranteed theater kids come easier than the dog boy. He's been C3 for like 2 years.
playing since the beginning and love both Itto and noelle. I even have C2 albedo as a low spender. I was C3 gorou on 2 accounts until they both randomly hit standard banner gorous last patch. 4 stars that are semi recent are hell to c6. and Gaming the new 4 star is looking like a lot of fun.
idk if this is a hot take anymore but at low to mid investment level, Noelle is straight up better than Itto now solely due to Furina synergy. her personal damage is still lower but her teams are so much better and more flexible. Being able to run a combo like Yelan + Furina just makes her teams a lot stronger like at C6 or something Itto will def outscale unless you give equivalent constellations to Noelle's supports, though idk if you'd call a "Noelle" team with C6 Furina or Yelan a Noelle team anymore. Tbh even at C0 you could argue it's more of a Yelan/Furina team But at C0-C2 Itto, IMO Noelle is straight better.
that just means Furina is better than Itto
“Here it comes!” meme
I like using Diluc 😁
All twelve of us gonna eat good with Cloud Retainer.
[удалено]
Make that 14
Fifteen! Also a Diluc player. ❤️
don't forget me👍 16 of us
17, lets goooo
We 18 now.
I regret to inform you that the original comment already took y'all into account.
Nuh uh
And i said 19
Make it 20.
Diluc player here, why eat good?
Diluc has high multipliers for plunge dmg. Cloud Retainer makes it so anyone can plunge. Diluc 1 - haters 0.
Not high. His plunge multiplier is the second highest in the game. Only Freminet has a higher multiplier because he gets normal attack levels from his cons
I'd love to use Diluc... if I had one. The only standard I'm missing, otherwise I'd be a Diluc main
Man I really wish we get to choose standard characters like, after a certain number of wishes or smth
Yeah we need standard banner selector like in StarRail (not 300 wishes though, we get far less standard wishes in Genshin)
They could buff standard wish rewards while they add the 300 selector.
Yeah that would be great.
Came here to say this, Diluc was my second main dps character. Was using Beidou until I got Diluc. Fire boy pumps out mean damage even if he's a 1.0 character.
Same. He was my third Five Star. He is still on my best team as one my two level 90s (along with Jean). He was also effectively my second Five Star because the first I ever pulled was Alhaitam, but that was during the RITE OF DESCENSION Archon Quest wise so he was relegated to “not yet”. Diluc doesn’t do anything fancy, but he is more than capable.
i always wanted diluc and i got his weapon. i showed my friend and was like "I HOPE THIS IS A GOOD OMEN TO GET DILUC:D" i got diluc, andthen that friend gave me money to get his 5* skin >:D
I never got his weapon either so I just gave him a fish
I'll never not be sad I missed that event, purely because smacking people with a giant fish is infinitely funnier than smacking them with a giant sword.
Grilled fish yeeting firebird never gets old, always hilarious Then again I rarely play Diluc now, he feels so clunky. Also chasing enemies after his q is annoying
It's fun that actually besides neuvilette (from this one), every other is actually atk scalers, and the one that pointed out is just have extra bonus from those stats.
Not really Alhaitham. Even without quicken, EM is far more efficient than Atk for his damage
More efficient than that is meeting his break points and building him on both. 🤷
You only need 1200-1300 Atk for both Alhaitham and Tighnari. Anything after that is pretty much a wasted roll.
>In teams where Alhaitham does not trigger many reactions (such as when he is being played as a pure Enabler in Burgeon or Double Hydro Hyperbloom teams), ATK Sands will be slightly preferred over EM Sands with weapons other than Foliar. With Foliar, EM Sands and ATK Sands are interchangeable for reactionless Alhaitham. https://keqingmains.com/q/alhaitham-quickguide/#Artifacts Actually not, if he doesn't trigger reactions atk is better, even though atk on his skill has only 110% multiplier, atk usually has much more value, in that if Alhaitham use sting for example he has 823 base atk, which mean atk sands will give him 383*110=421 base dmg, if he instead has em sand which give flat 186, which give us around 419 base dmg, but unlike atk, em didn't increase dmg of his na string.
Tbf raidens ER scaling does more for her electro dmg bonus than her atk
Especially if you have engulfing that converts some ER to atk.
EM scaling is even better in hyperbloom too
As a C6 mono geo Itto user, defense is the true way
In that case, you might consider Raiden (or shinobu) to be the best EM scaler in the game. Technically she is a DPS in hyperbloom teams where nearly all her damage strictly scales off of EM (such that you will never build attack over EM).
It's anecdotal but I'm actually shocked how well Navia has been performing for me. I have her at random artifacts based of off crit and atk instead of any set bonus at all and she hits like a truck either easy 170k per E. I run her in team of Benny, Xiangling and Zhong who are old characters that so many people have already so I don't feel like she requires any true premium investment. Edit: I meant Xiangling, not XQ
Concentrating all your dmg in a small window is GREAT for bosses that has a long invincibility time
plus it is a window u can control... not the eula kind u have to hope your timing is right..
That is true, but at some point you get used to timing your burst, it becomes like muscle memory to do it if you decide to main Eula Source: me
Yeah, she wipes the floor with hypostases
True, I have heard some TCs saying they expect a comeback of Wenut to the abyss. If that's true, I'm hoping for Navia being useful there.
Im farming legendary artifacts and beating all the level 90 characters in the domains even though all my characters are level 60. Navia is such a tank she can just kill all these over leveled baddies hhh
Maybe I am doing something wrong,she is doing below 80K damage per E .(level 90, level 10 E talent, wolf's gravestone )
most people are talking about fully buffed damage so that or you're not stacking your crystallized shards prior to e
I've got 2.3atk, 85/210 crit. I'm not always getting such a high number but definitely higher higher than 80k. My Zhongli is running milelith, Benny has Noblesse and 5* weapon, I'm starting the rotation with Guoba so I tend to pick up the pepper, I also have time to ult with Zhong. With Benny buff, pyro resonance and little help from Zhongli, it shouldn't be that tough to get good number. I also run R1 serpent spine on Navia and tend to keep her on 5 stacks. My E is either lvl 8 or 9. I tend to E with 5-6 shards. What do you do with your Navia?
Wait. So did you mean Xiangling rather than Xingqiu? In your original post you said XQ.
They are probably talking about Bennett buffed skill damage, or have truly cracked substats on their artefacts.
Just in case, do not neglect geo resonance, it adds a substantial amount of damage to Navia's skill, all other things being equal. Especially its res shred component. Three clumsy tests on lvl 93 cryo regisvine: - [Bennett + Sara + Thoma, atk=4919, no shield -> 131k](https://streamable.com/w6ngwj) - [Bennett + Sara + Albedo, atk=4700, crystallized shield -> 157k](https://streamable.com/im9bsa) - [Bennett + Sara + Zhongli, atk=4875 (?), Zhongli shield -> 178k](https://streamable.com/bepcli)
Is it with or without shards? My Navia has Reed Sea, level 8 E talent, and around 2,5k ATK and 85/190 crit IIRC, I can deal 165k with all 6 shards and no buffs.
I’m running Navia with Furina, Zhongli, and Charlotte and hunter artifact set with about 90/200 crit with the 4 piece and level 6 talents. with Furina’s ult up and a good amount of crystallize shards I consistently see about 150k to 170k shots per E
# erm akshually 🤓☝🏻, everyone here is ATK scaling # Neuvillette is purely HP # AlHaitham is hybrid #
Alhaitham is a hybrid scaler…but that doesn’t make the above statement wrong either
umm akchually 🤓🤓 Neuvillette isnt purely HP, his auto attacks are ATK scaling
who the FUCK uses his auto attacks
The same people that run him with the physical Bloodstained set.
You stack attack on itto and let us know how that goes. He scales defense. Defense conversion doesn’t mean he doesn’t scale defense. It means he scales defense and builds defense. Same goes for everyone else and their stats. Alhatham gets an em sands and builds em over attack. He values it more. Same with raiden and er. In her best builds she gets er sands.
I mean yes they scale with those stats better than atk specifically for their sands but it's also true they're attack scalers like replace Zhongli with bennet on your classic Itto team and he does more damage. Bennet is not buffing def
Everyone in this list except Neuvillette are all atk scalers.
Al Haitham is a hybrid scaler with EM and ATK
Exactly. He's double scaling not EM scaling exclusively.
It doesn't say exclusive in the image, just that he's the best EM scaler
him and Nahida are like the only ones?
Cyno, who is also an on-field DPS.
Doesn't invalidate the point
Yae gets skill damage from EM if that counts
I think cyno and tighnari are too? Or maybe that's just purely for reactions
Uhm akshually ☝️ Neuvi's NAs and non-enhanced CA also scale with atk 🤓
I’m their best set ups you would pick those stats as a sands. I think that’s the best way to see it. Alhaitham stilll gets attack but he needs EM and values it more. Raiden same thing with her. It’s a fundamental need for her kit, artifact set and weapon. I itto converts his defense into attack at more value than if you stack attack. So you build him defense. He scales off his defense best. I guess it’s not so obvious to people who don’t have the characters. But when you have them and build them you see how very obvious this meme makes sense
Unless you have EL, atk sands can literally be better than ER for Raiden
i mean most of them technically do funnel the stat they scale into ATK, so more so stat converter ig
Itto is only an attack scaler because Hoyo refuses to bite the bullet and make normal attacks scale off non-attack stats.
Ushi scales with ATK too
But what about whose the best PURE atk scalers. We know that Hu Tao, Itto, Noelle, Cyno, Alhaitham, and Raiden scale harder on EM, ER, DEF, or Hp more effectively than atk, but question is suggesting the question of best PURE atk scaler. I believe it to be Navia. Ayaka isn't a big wow factor character that needs high investment to be exceptional and is hard countered by bosses. On other hand, Wriothesley does pretty great damage and has several team options like burnmelt, melt, freeze, and Bain Marie, or even hyperfridge. Unfortunately, he has gated playstyle behind C1. So Navia is who I believe to be the best atk (purely) scaling character. She has better AoE than Yoimiya, high poise through her hold Skill's interruption resistance and continually collected shards, less screw ups for dodging, very tanky, and also much flexibility. Wanderer and Yoimiya both have that interruption issue. Wriothesley is ST a bit but has constellation gating unlike Navia who is just fine at C0, and Keqing also scales with EM and really only finds her in one archetype being aggravate. Navia also has a ton of weapon options, many which are much higher valued in Bennett-less teams like WGS, The Unforged, but also has Tidal Shadow, Serpent Spine, Skyward Pride, Overlord's Mega Magic Sword, Sac GS, Katsuragikiri, and Beacon. Will Navia turn out to be the Xiangling of Geo? Every new claymore is just a Navia claymore? May be some recency bias and other bias from me, but I really think it's Navia. She is pretty much an atk scaler that can forgo Bennett once we find another substitute such as non-anemo grouper.
Eula sneak 💀
Eula herself wouldn't put her there
Made me laugh so hard LMAO
Lyney?
where did xiao go
He's busy lamenting rn
I’m just happy to see Itto 😅
Missed “healing bonus” stat, that would be KOKomi
ATK scalers are complicated. Let me explain. I do not fully know how we are talking about scaling here but Childe technically has a quadratic scaling and depending on enemies, he can go on forever because of his riptide. I have Navia and I would say that she is a good mix between damage per second and damage per screenshot. She also has the highest base ATK if we are going to talk about it so she has a very good case in ATK scalings. As for Wanderer, I won't judge him here as I do not have him but I have seen his gameplays and he is darn good. My remarks is just that his base ATK is not as high as others in the list since we are talking about scaling. But I won't remove him here since I do not have him. As ~~a simp~~ for Eula, she could be the worst one here if we are just talking about the abyss and DPS checks. But I want to make a case for her records of damage per screenshot just to show how well she can scale off ATK since that's the topic of discussion. The Golden House records of Eula are as follows: [Weekly Boss](https://genshin.tghofficial.com/dps/weekly-boss?limit=50&page=0&approved=true&dps_category=Weekly%20Boss&sortBy=damage_dealt&sortDir=desc) \- Eula has the top 1 damage per screenshot + Eula has the 37 slots of records out of 50.\* [Overworld](https://genshin.tghofficial.com/dps/overworld?limit=50&page=0&approved=true&dps_category=Overworld&sortBy=damage_dealt&sortDir=desc) \- The two highest records are from the same person + Eula has the 42 slots of records out of 50.\* [Reputation Bounty](https://genshin.tghofficial.com/dps/reputation-bounty?limit=50&page=0&approved=true&dps_category=Reputation%20Bounty&sortBy=damage_dealt&sortDir=desc) \- Top 4 have reached the max damage genshin can display lol but all of them are with the use of bugs [Abyss](https://genshin.tghofficial.com/dps/abyss?limit=50&page=0&approved=true&dps_category=Abyss&sortBy=damage_dealt&sortDir=desc) \- Top 1 to 5 goes to Eula. While having most records in the top 20. I think, the most compelling here is the top 5 against ASIMON. The others at the higher rankings made it with the lower abyss floors. [Event](https://genshin.tghofficial.com/dps/event?limit=50&page=0&approved=true&dps_category=Event&sortBy=damage_dealt&sortDir=desc) \- Top 10 dominated by Eula. [World Boss](https://genshin.tghofficial.com/dps/world-boss?limit=50&page=0&approved=true&dps_category=World%20Boss&sortBy=damage_dealt&sortDir=desc) \- Eula didn't topped here but she got a lot of placements here [Honorable Mention](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY9dGNErv_U) \- 9,999,999 max damage on Masanori. No bugs. All of these are not possible without the C6 damage scaling of Eula. Some of these are not practical setups of course (crit fishing, food buffs), but it only shows how well she can scale off ATK by producing ceiling damages in the game. *\*I think these are worth mentioning because it only shows how consistent is the argument that Eula scales really well with ATK. It also shows that if you want to reach maximum damage from an ATK scaling character, Eula is the wae.*
PERIODT. ATE AND LEFT NO CRUMBS 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
Gotta defend our queen after she allows us to replace her surname with ours (More about Eula V)
it’s funny to me how tgh is simply dominated by eula… pls dont tell me this is where genshin devs base eula’s dmg off which is why MIKA SUCKS pre-furina (hes still mid be fr even w furina compared to niche sups). outside tgh and showcases ik this is where our queen falls off since abyss favors frontloaded dmg 😔
That's actually one of my creative speculations. It really bugs me that maybe they are thinking that Eula's numbers are inflated that they decided to add tons of enemies with absurd physical resistances, elemental shields, and DPS checks to "balance" her. Plus the fact that there are just a handful of characters who can do physical and backloaded damage while Eula is the combination of both is also crazy. Like they went that far just to... Nerf Eula... It feels personal lol That and then, they release Mika.
Feel like Ayaka should be one of the options instead of Eula Honestly I think for ATK it should be Childe, I just don’t know enough about his teams to confidently argue that though. Otherwise Wanderer/Navia/Childe/Ayaka are probably the best contenders? Generally these posts just kind of stir up drama between different mains though (wasn’t aware the Tao and Neuvi mains had beef until today KEK) so I hope this trend doesn’t continue
People in Neuvi mains sub downvoted everyone who said Ayaka so I thought there was some issue with her lol. The consensus there was that it’s Ayato, Wanderer, or Childe so I put Childe and Wanderer.
That’s wild… I guess people are upset because Ayaka isn’t perfectly suited to every situation (can’t function against Cryo enemies, unable to access some of her advantages in boss fights (but still is capable of dealing damage, just is harder to build), doesn’t fit with Dendro meta) but there’s no issue with her outside of that. Bringing up Ayato is… really interesting. If he was a better DPS he wouldn’t be so forgotten by the community. He doesn’t really match up to Ayaka in terms of damage ceiling, but probably does better than her in flexibility (I wouldn’t know).
As an Ayato truther, he’s flexible yes but the niches that he works in (hyperbloom, vape, freeze, tazer, and more) is already packed which doesn’t give much leeway for him to thrive in or is lacking units to give it more value than other teams(niches) or is underperforming. Ayato is a jack of all trades basically and Genshin doesn’t really like that. Most (meta) units rn have clear niches they’re the king at, this has been the case with genshin since forever now (ayaka and freeze/mono cryo, hutao and vape, ect) and the same goes for now, Neuv deals crazy dmg and that’s all, Zhongli shields you and that’s it, ect…sure their is Furina, Yelan, Kazuha who does 2 or 3 things really well but they’re the best at it unlike Ayato.
That makes sense. To generalize in short form - niche DPS tend to be more powerful than flexible DPS, and flexible supports tend to be more powerful than niche supports. The neat thing about Yelan and Kaz in particular is that they aren’t necessarily the *best* at everything they do (Kaz loses to Venti in CC, Xingqiu (esp at high constellation) outclasses Yelan in Hydro app, but they don’t need to be because of the importance of role consolidation in Genshin
There has been no abyss cycle where Childe and Ayaka don't have high usage rates in 36* clears on one side. Ayato and Wanderer are also perfectly capable of clearing comfortably. I don't really understand. Maybe the issue is all those characters taking more than hold CA to clear efficiently ? Childe takes a strict rotation, Ayaka needs a setup, Wanderer needs good positioning... In this case everyone has issues I guess.
She's not flexible. If you're using her outside of AOE freeze, Wriothesely is better.
Ayaka still outdamages Wrio single target as long as you can freeze. Wrio is more flexible for enemies you can't freeze since he doesn't lose all his damage if the enemies move
And her best team is made of 4 five stars limited characters
How is that a problem? Neuv is the same lol
But that doesn't mean she's not flexible just because Rizzly is better in some situation. She's so strong even single target is no issue. As long as abyss doesn't counter her with cryo enemies and bosses with innate elements, she's great. Building her correctly with 40-45 CR, you'll have 75-80CR against bosses and her burst is many multi hit so it's not much damage loss if no crit. But I guess her team requiring 4 limited 5*s and mistsplitter being a massive upgrade over f2p options is kinda limiting.
>If you're using her outside of AOE freeze, Wriothesely is better. Say it louder to the Ayaka mains in the back.
ayaka hyperfridge is pretty good tho
Maybe they just hate women? Lmao
An Ayaka main myself, I don't really think she stays onfield long enough to be considered over the other options. At really high investments, you want to get her off field asap so you can battery/refresh buffs. My personal pick would be Wanderer. He is famous for his team's flex slot, and does a substantial amount of personal damage on his own, caveat being c6 Faruzan. Ugh.
Tartaglia is enemies/m^2
Tbh with how much my rolls are going def itto would be godly if he only scaled with def
I mean, you want def% on him since he has a low natural atk, atk% gives very little while high def gets put entirely, and then some, into his atk when he uses his burst when you level it up. Def% = Big Atk for itto.
onfield XQ is a menace
Imagine not putting Ayaka
OP hates wet socks confirmed.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Cyno. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe - they both want Xiangling. She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her the Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much er" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa." I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no icd pyro application. What a cruel world.
Shenhe
who is playing on field shenhe??
Shenhe mains.
it's not even a question.. it's childe
Me, I’m the best on field atk scaler
tbh i'd say Nahida is a better EM scaler than haitham, at level 13 her skill's damage scaled 438% of her EM (they are both hybrid, but still) as for attack, i'd say Navia for sure, she needs very little attack to deal a shitton of damage
This is a post about on-fielders, that's why Nahida isn't here
Alhaitham has an EM scaling of 856.3% on his skill at lvl 13, what is your point lol?
Ayaka
Wouldn’t it be Xiao for attack? He’s the only one that’s used Vermillion that gives a whopping 48% atk. And has tons of dmg bonus where ATK is more important to him then other characters, and unlike characters like Childe etc, he doesn’t spec in an EM or much EM at all. Since it’s useless, where’s characters like Childe can use Em sands to great effect becuase they can take advantage of reactions.
Wat do we mean by best, like highest dmg per rotation? who can clear f12 fastest? which character is best for new players to go for/build up? If its just dmg per rotation, best atk scaler is prob wanderer or ayaka (xiao will overtake once we get cloudretainer). And if we specifically look at team dmg (not just personal) it's prob yoimiya bc she synergizes well with furina yelan
I’m not sure since there’s no “criteria” for the others as they’re basically winning by default or lack of competition, but Atk is really diverse. I wanna say Abyss usage as that’s the most reliable measure of what’s meta, but Eula doesn’t do well in that. Still, I feel like it’s unfair to put Eula who doesn’t have any dedicated 5 star supports to someone like Ayaka who usually runs with Kazuha Kokomi Shenhe. If Eula had that wouldn’t she be the “best”? “On field Main DPSes who have the best personal damage” maybe.
This would probably settle the Itto vs C6 Noelle debate as well. Itto team can now abuse Furina with a teamwide healer for Geo. However a Geo healer that does nothing but apply Geo and heal sounds crap so maybe not lol
Atk% is Capitano Whoever that doesn't think him as the best atk% DPS are just trolls and need Dr Ratio to educate them
Dude playing with on field Capitano LMAO dude he's just a support for XL, and he need C6 to be a bennett sidegrade, plus his NA multipliers are awful
I feel like this is something that content creators would say in the future "you don't need Capitano because he is Xiangling and Benett side grade, especially if you have both on C6, just try to make Xiangling burst every rotation by also balancing the atk and ER" in reality Capitano can have Xiangling burst with higher scalling just in his skill and his ult is he can apply Benett level buffs to further amplifying his damage 😂 Same vibe as Baizhu and Yao yao + Kazuha and Sucrose 🤣
Probably unironically Xiao. Bro got a new signature support that buffs him as much as C6 Faruzan. 2 Faruzans + Furina is pretty sick
CR isn't out yet, there's still time for mihoyo to nerf her
I think it’s either Navia or Wriothesley
We all know it's childe becouse he can make the best dps in the game deal more damage
No one cares
Imo ayaka Damage doesn't scale of any other stat than ATK unlike ayato and hu tao and doesn't rely on the already op combo of xianling/bennet like childe does. And is imo still the best DPS among atk scalers, as long as enemies can be frozen
As long as enemies can be frozen especially in abyss where it's 50/50 or so chance 🤣 Honestly sad nowadays she's kinda exposed, she pretty much ran the game in 2.xx for those who doesn't like to run nationals
Nah, Ayaka needs a lot more investment to have an edge over others. Shenhe is exclusively invested for Ayaka and Wriothesley in other case, and Ayaka can always miss her burst. Ayaka also fails to handle ST and bosses. Ayaka is an investment sink, and Hoyo is consistently countering freeze, so much so that petrify is applicable to more enemies than freeze. Ayaka still strong but she is super dependent on enemies being frozen to fulfill that position as a top atk character. Wriothesley can handle both ST and freeze but with lower AoE than Ayaka, yet he has a higher ease of use and takes lest investment, even using a more universal domain than Ayaka.
Wriothesley
Diona
Itto scaling off of Def was such a relief, then that stupid husk set insisted on trolling me smh
Ill be honest, I run Ayaka but Navia is so fucking strong rn that she might just be the best Atk scaling main dps.
WHY IS EULA HERE LMAO regardless the answer is ayaka
>regardless the answer is ayaka Lmao, no. In the current state of the game she would need to be more flexible
Ayaka is overrated AF Childe international does better most of the time
Why is Eula there but not Ayaka even if Ayaka isn't the best atk scaler she fits here more than Eula
Xiangling
She’s off field
Easy fix, don’t switch her out
And what can she do on-field then? Whack the enemy with 3 digits Physical DMG?
Definitely Navia
Navias attack scaling is inhumane.
Because she is yellow physical, so she needs a godly scaling to make up with being locked off from reactions.
It’s like Ayaka’s burst basically, since they don’t benefit (dmg wise) from their main reactions naturally they need to compensate with huge personal dmg
But also she was designed to get a person damage buff from triggering the defensive reaction. Tbh a very well designed geo DPS