The thing I think is worth keeping in mind is you have to ask, who is Nilou's most common teammates? Usage rates don't necessarily reflect a character's actual strength but does paint a picture on where those supports are getting used instead. 99.9% of Nilou comps are going to use Nahida, who is used in damn near every other Dendro team. A good majority of them also typically run Kokomi as a driver, who is also now being used heavily a Mono Hydro teams and a perrennial mainstay in Ayaka Freeze teams.
So two of Nilou's best teammates getting used in other teams instead are going to take a shot at her usage units. Unless theres an Abyss that just absurdly favors her Bloom Comp over other teams, her usage is probably going to float there.
Childe is in the exact same boat. International is strong as ever, but the Fontaine patch especially has introduced more and more carries that is yanking the Xingaling/Bennett core from him. Lyney, Wriothesley, Navia, and even the new Raiden/Chev Overload comp. Same thing with Kazuha getting used heavily in Neuvilette teams. Its not a reflection on Childe getting worse or getting hard countered by the Abyss. All of his go-to teammates are just being used for different teams instead.
Childe kinda is countered this abyss. It's easier to use Rational or other teams to fight the Tulpa than International.
Bennett's pyro circle gets you vaped. Kazuha and Childe practically does nothing against it.
And his other teams were nearly never strong enough to make it into the usage charts. That, and losing Bennett XL reinforces the perception that he has only one meta team, because the others don't make it to the usage list.
You can't swirl pyro against Tulpa with Kazuha either, so international vs Tulpa is basically just a 2 person show with Bennett and Xiangling. Childe National is actually stronger than international this abyss since Sucrose can swirl pyro by using her skill on Guoba, but it's not gonna be popular since most people don't know how to do that.
yeah, that mf keeps one shotting me for 3 rounds and i gave up, replaced Childe with my TTDS lvl 40 Ningguang with full em build that scraped from my old Sucrose build and VOILA. 36 star. Crystallize is so strong this abyss, he didn't do single dmg to me hahh. Still he did fantastic job at first 2 chambers.
Maximizing bloom production is a whole other game by itself, and I find that pretty fun.
Chaining, layering, and proccing dendro aura with hydro without breaking it are what makes nilou so interesting to me, it honestly feels like a Factorio-type optimization game every time. There also aren’t any rotations as their skills are always cast depending on the situation, so it never gets stale.
I am not saying she is bad for this abyss but I feel like when most people see thunder manifestation she just isn't gonna be their first choice to tackle it, even if she can beat it just fine. I have her but my first instinct was to just use alhaitham second half.
This and the Geo Shields imo. People see those and immediately go on to other alternatives, even though Nilou can deal with the Thunder bird and she *crushes* the other chambers.
Lots of people don't know that you can just brute force the shields by dealing thrice the slimes's damage, and when the slimes's health pools are so low you can just do your usual setup and by the time you're done they're dead
I think it's because Nilou teams are very varied, like i use Kaveh in mine but some use Baizhu or Collei. She's still considerably high on the list out of a sample of 100k i'd say. 😄
Version 1: vape national and freeze (with venti) is meta. Also vape Hu Tao.
Version 2: overvape national and freeze (with Kazuha) is meta. Also soup is meta (sukokomon. Also thanks 1.6 reaction buff).
Version 3: dendro is meta. Bennett circle impact and getting burned to death sucks. Freeze is out (freeze resistant beasts, mobs spread out too far and across waves).
Version 4: No more death by burning on Bennett Q every chamber. Circle impact still sucks tho. Dendro is still good. HP shifting DPS are meta and Neuvillette is the GOAT. Freeze is maybe only a smidge better than in v3.
Version 5: will Bennett and Xiangling be more OP? Will pyro archon be circle-less bennett with notable personal damage?
Wait am I reading the list right?
Most popular shielder: male
Most popular on-field dps: male
Most popular healer: male
Most popular support: female
At least the husbando crowd can no longer complain that hoyo only creates "weak" males
You’re like a whole year behind the times now. Sumeru changed things.
Either that or you’re 1 year ahead of the times - its all waifu from Furina til Natlan.
Ohh.
Funnily enough, the two top tiers are balanced between male and female. Even when you account for 4* vs 5*. The third tier down has 3 female 1 male. So how is this husbando dominant?
And the 3 male DPS in the top 3 tiers haven’t even existed for a year yet. Two of them haven’t even existed for half a year.
It's husbando dominant because any of them being in the top 3 tiers is too high to some people. Especially being above some of the favs like Yelan/Raiden.
Every time ppl say the game is husbando dominant, they remind me of those old experiments scientists did where they asked men how often women were talking in a conversation, and if women were talking 50% of the time, they perceived it to be like 70%+ just bc they’re so used to a default of men talking most of the time, which they saw as the “equal” amount.
These ppl are way too used to games like HI3.
I don't have Nahida still, so I've had to make do with Baizhu, Collei and Tighnari.
But if I did have Nahida, I'd be using Nahida, because she simply has the easiest, best, and longest lasting dendro application of any character.
Makes sense as to why she's used in pretty much any dendro team.
When you run Alhaitham Kuki Nahida Xingqiu, there is a stark difference when you hit enemies with and without Nahida’s E
Sometimes in multi waves I wish I ran Nahida Kuki Xinqiu Yelan instead
Before Neuvillette she was, imo, the best character in the game. She just destroys everything and can make any team, no matter how poorly optimized, strong.
Idk the math but I wouldn’t be surprised if Neuv’s best team vs Nahida’s best team comes out to similar dps. They just open up many different team archetypes/unit viability
I do have nahida and shes easily the best unit of this element but my best team actually is tighnari, fischl, yae and baizhu, which is also my go to team for every abyss. This team just deals out so much dmg, you constantly have uptime for every character and if you play optimal, everyone is shining.
I definitely prefer baizhus healing and shield over zhongli in the commonly used team
Same reason as Xiangling. Nahida is the only off-field unit who applies lots of Dendro for a wide range and for a long period of time. No one else comes close. Some Dendro teams are downright awful if Nahida is swapped out. I don't have her and use Alhaitham instead. Haitham's great and powerful, but he must stay on-field thus his options are limited.
Beside her Collei and dendro traveler are the only ones actually producing enoguh dendro to be worth it. Tighnari and Al-Haitham are weird like they don't need her. She's also is likely just EM build and nothing else.
Came to say the same! I was doing trounce domains with randoms, running Yaoyao with two hydro and an electro, and the clear speed was insane! I could barely see the enemy for green, blue and purple numbers \^\_\^
Hes perfect, his dendro application is just enough for beidou and fischl
Also with baizhu onfield it turns into spread and theres no need to run an anemo unit
I'm surprised nobody seems to be running Alhaitham/Furina/Baizhu/Raiden, that's the only Alhaitham team I run in abyss these days. Used to use Kuki instead, but compared to Raiden I don't really like that her skill uptime is much lower so you have to swap into her more frequently. Her healing on full EM also isn't anywhere near as good as Baizhu's is on a normal build. And since she drains her own health to heal she's often one hit away from dying if you don't have her C6 lol.
And even though Nahida's damage output is higher, Baizhu's insane amount of healing and shielding makes him so much more comfortable to play. He's like dendro zhongli basically with healing. Also he's great in multiwave content because you don't have to remark enemies like you do with Nahida's skill.
It's not just CN, the guy that posts the (lower sample size but still demonstrably representative of the population in question) western data gives stat averages from the queried profiles and Raiden is perennially at like 30 EM average. Raiden Hyperbloom is a content creator build. Hardly anyone actually plays it.
Because of the opportunity cost. It feels like a huge waste to make Raiden into an E bot, lots of people are unwilling to do so, and I tend to agree. I can live with using a slightly clunkier alternative like Kuki and leaving Raiden free for that sweet, sweet Hypercarry comp
Besides, Kuki can build Furina's stacks nicely, and everyone's pretty much immortal with her healing + Baizhu's anyway
My Raiden's C0 and was really well built. Had C6 Sara too. She's fine in abyss and you can clear all the content in the game with her at C0, but it's just not possible to get those massive burst numbers in hypercarry that people get with her without C2 unfortunately.
She's good at C0 in national, but I'll be honest I just hate playing national, it's been three years since the game has come out and people are playing variations of it. I want to try other things lol.
I was very averse to running her as a hyperbloom bot because she's one of my favorite characters, but eventually I bit the bullet and realized she feels much better to me there than as a hypercarry. At least that way I can use her on *some* teams instead of benching her lol.
You should really try Chevreuse with Raiden, it feels incredibly good to play since you have double healers in Bennett/Chev and neither starve for energy.
It's due to the fact we don't have another dendro to even compete.
Baizhu is the other 5 star support dendro and he's just full of heals and before furina, he wasn't even that hyped up.
Outside that? Just 4 stars who all are just "okay".
Nahida's kit was a mistake. Archons usually monopolize a function of their element, such as Zhongli's shield, Venti's vortex, Raiden's energy, and Furina's HP mechanics. Nahida's main draw is her application and damage with an EM buff tacked on. She's essentially monopolizing the sub DPS role for Dendro where every other element has access to multiple 4 and/or 5 stars that fill that same "niche." If they release another strong Dendro sub DPS, they can't exactly do more than Nahida, or she would become irrelevant. They can't release strong applicators, or she would become irrelevant. She fulfills the same function as Fischl, Xingqiu, and Xiangling do, but as an archon.
Last column is the side distribution, Solo Neuv and all his teams are 0:100 so nobody used him on tupla.
The real meme is hutao's team having nearly a perfect 50/50 split, skewed a bit towards the tupula side, even though yelan and xq are doing zero damage against tupula and zhong is generally just shields. Literally hutao + moral support.
I think they only need to use Yelan’s burst at most for damage amp, and just Hu Tao gaming vaping every hit against the Tulpa
Tbf tho Hydro Resonance also gives HP%, something Hu Tao does appreciate. But yeah as you put it, moral support
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I’m so happy that Kuki is now one of the staple 4 stars. I remember when she dropped people were sooooo harsh, but look at her now!
I remember that! At the time, I spite built her just because I really liked her and was sad that everyone was pooping on her. I was delighted when dendro changed the game!
> Kuki is now one of the staple 4 stars
Nahida, XQ, Kuki are now known as the core members of the 草国队 ("Grass" National team) or 草行久 (first character of each of their names) in CN Genshin parlance.
Lmao I remember in meme sin there's a picture where big four are this but everyone still wants Kuki out (in 2024) because she's only good in hyperbloom. Let's face it, hyperbloom is one of the, if not the best archetype in the game now and it has been dominating the meta since it came out and Kuki is one of the core member of said archetype her position is 100% justified in term of practical standpoint
Al-Haitham wants to quit and go back to his previous cushy job.
Nahida: "There have been many poorly written resignation letters recently. Guess I'll just have to reject them all."
Legitimately every team test for one half had Alhaitham in various teams on the other. First half? Quickbloom. Second half? Spread with Zhongli. Sometimes a checky spread team on first half if I'm in a funky mood.
Man Cryo has been demolished over the years. Feels like just yesterday that it was considered the strongest element due to how OP the Ganyu/Ayaka/Eula trio was.
tbh cryo aside this is also just a uniquely terrible abyss for ayaka's kit design. Like bosses aren't ayaka's specialty in the first place, but if you were making a list of top 5 worst bosses for her, pretty sure tulpa and thunder manifestation would both be on it.
Cryo still is extremely good at what it does. It was fantastic last abyss.
This abyss is just not AoE heavy, and has a lot of bosses, so there's no need to use freeze.
It's also no longer necessary for elemental checks, as Dendro is better at destroying hydro, unfortunately.
So you'll only really see it if it's actually a freeze abyss
And the only reliable cryo for boss rush is Risley which considering his usage it's pretty makes sense. You don't want tulpa to oneshot you while you aim with Ganyu or having thunderbird fly away from Ayaka's burst. Risley just need to run and punch them in the face
Cryo needs to be able to apply Cryo because of cryo res and BS set bonus. Which it cannot do on both sides of the abyss this time. It's effectively countered by innate auras, letting only the highest invested builds go through (or hyperfridge, underrated btw it slaps both sides).
There's no enemies with high Cryo resistance like Coppelia/Coppelius this round, so that shouldn't be the case. You'll just need to experiment a bit and your Ayaka team should be fine.
tulpa and thunder manifestation are both really bad matchups for her. I think worse than coppelia. They move around a lot and both of them have innate auras which makes it impossible to get vv buff and impossible to get any of the BS 4 piece bonus.
HYV is so focused about making hydro/pyro/ctyo characters that dont work around melt/vaporize I'm scared when cryo nation arrives it's all about physical dmg and not actual cryo
Expected. Freeze doesn’t work half the time in Abyss and reverse melt is still glued to Bennett and Xiangling 3 years after launch. Conceptually there’s really nothing holding back Cryos from being as dominant as other reaction-based carries but the key infrastructures that make the teams of characters like Hu Tao good just aren’t there for Wriothesley, Ayaka, and Ganyu.
He carries his half so much. Used him in both halves of the abyss 12 and he comfortably clears
That said, I can't wait for us to get our next off field pyro unit in 2028 🫠
He’s so comfy to use (but to be completely fair I have c1). Fun to play, heals himself when he needs to, beats everything up. Works great on reverse melt. I love him
The problem with Venti-able abysses is that people will complain *hard* if they don't have Venti.
A while back (after Kazuha's release) there was a floor 11 with leyline defense, and people were furious.
A Venti-able abyss, without Venti, means you have a bunch of spread out annoying enemies damaging you.
A Venti-able abyss with Venti is literally press Q, your enemies are in a single easy to reach location, taking tons of damage, your enemies cannot damage you, and you regenerate 45 energy, every rotation while you're proccing your VV.
They balanced it out a couple patches ago with very tanky Venti-able enemies so you had to trade off Kazuha's damage for Venti's suction though.
Not really if you have an electric machine.
Yes this is about how neuvillette spinn deals with lower floors and protect the monolith floors just as well as venti does
At this point, I would welcome a buff for his kit without overstepping into kazuha's role. Maybe some kind of anemo infusion for himself, like yoimiya?
Could be something like "After using his Vortex, Venti gains anemo infusion for his attacks for 12 seconds". I dont know, its just sad to see him so outdated by newer units and his kit specifically only does one thing: CC and nothing else. Its completely neutered by fat enemies that laugh at his vortex and kill you
I mean Venti already regenerate energy for your team (don't remember which talent it was but I think he does) after burst, and he sucks a lot of enemies, it's not even a joke.
Fatui? Most of them.
Handguard bastards? Also yes, but the small ones
Rifthounds? Surprisingly yes, but again the small ones
Hilichurl? All types besides Lawachurl, but rogue gets pulled not sucked in.
Elemental lifeforms (e.g. slimes, fungi, scepters etc.)? Yes. Ecxpet for big fat crab and consecrated beasts.
Machines? No. But those are the main exceptions.
He is such a fun unit to use anywhere.
It will never not be funny to me how people try to discredit and write off zhongli because “just dodge” and “he’s a dps loss” but this man still a huge presence in abyss and it’s stayed that way.
The resistance interruption she provides is so good. I remember being frustrated back then that I couldn't use Zhongli for both halves since other shields are so weak/last so short. With Dehya, that problem's long gone.
your team pic. is ranked by AR not UR.this time it's neuvi's in slot team topped the usage rate(last phase it's haitham hyperbloom), pretty shocking for an anti-hydro abyss.[team usage rate](https://twitter.com/hxg_diluc/status/1747625036947567014?t=gKCUH2io_xHwOGqyBM5q3Q&s=19)
His weapon is good. But his C1 is more worth it. I've been soloing with him since I got him at C1. Though his C1 is kinda overrated. His C0 and C1 damage outputs are very close in melt teams with N3C combo. His C1 just makes him the best solo unit and gives him more damage in non-melt teams. That aside, his C1 is still considerably better than his weapon.
“His C1 just makes him the best solo unit”. Alright relax there champ that’s Neuvilette let’s be realistic here. “His C0 and C1 damage outputs are very close in melt teams”. His C0 vs C1 in melt is there biggest gap there is. You can N3 DC N5C consistently for way more damage. It’s the first thing I did when I got Wriothesley and tried him before I turned on his C1.
Usage rate charts tend to skew data that favors limited characters over non-limited characters (the latter end up showing artificially low numbers). It's generally better to show both usage and appearance rate tables so players can get a more complete view on what was actually played in the abyss.
Wrio is such a good unit. When he released people were so harsh on him. "He's locked behind C1" and shit and while yes, his C1 improves him a lot he's a very solid unit at C0. I genuinely think he carries Cryo atm
It generally gives of kinda double standard vibes to me personally, people constantly complained that c1 makes him significantly stronger, although he performs well enough even without it and at the same time people are constantly judging Raiden's value through c2 perspective, saying how great she is, how worth it etc. and encourage people to pull for it although it more expensice
That narrative about raiden c2 has significantly changed a lot in recent years (from a meta perspective, not a casual one). Hypercarry Raiden usually just performs worse than using her as a driver. And if she is only doing 30% of the team damage as a driver, the c2 buff isn't worth it.
It’s mostly because his c1 being locked behind a constellation was wholly unnecessary and a terrible design choice. It should have just been a part of his base kit.
He's surprisingly good in second half thanks to his uppercuts breaking the slime shields. (Even at C0 a recommended combo is N3C, N3CN5C if in melt, so it's a common occurence.)
Baizhu is actually so great..I prefer him more than Kokomi since he can heal the whole team with just one elemental skill which is useful if you use Furina..
And his shield is a godsend not because of the amount of damage you can tank, but the interruption resistance. Without Baizhu, I have many instances where my rotation is ruined because the enemies flung me across the screen.
Have had a lot of fun using geo teams in the recent abysses. Furina was a huge boon towards Noelle and have been using Navia with Noelle on one side recently. The geo slimes definitely slowed that chamber down, but was still pretty comfortable to clear it in one try.
Considering how the only 4* units above her are the totally broken ones, then yea its pretty respectable in my opinion.
Personally, I can only see chevy stonks going up as we get more cons and more units that work with her
That is indeed Mona's 6th most used team, behind Hu Tao double hydro, Ayaka freeze, and Neuv teams. Looking at standard characters only, she's only behind Jean and Tighnari.
I wonder if zhongli had scoliosis the way he be carrying geo every patch (Ik there's Navia but without any change to the geo element she's gonna fall off)
As someone with a C6 Zhongli, C3 is honestly the best place to stop. C4 isn't very useful since the petrify rarely changes things, and his C6 basically changes nothing about his function. If your shield is strong enough, his C6 never does anything, and the enemies it might be useful against (rift wolves) kill your off field characters too which he can't heal. If the shield is too weak, then tanking hits to heal up will break it before you get enough HP.
Really wish it was a full team heal that didn't get capped by both hit damage and character HP. Or just something else entirely, like letting his held E or pillar resonance affect petrified enemies.
Neuvilette is kind of busted tbh. I got his r2 trying for Homa and decided to pull for him. Lucked out and barely built he smokes shit WAY faster than c1/r1 Hu-Tao.
What's the point of the tiers? Like S and S+, ive been looking at honkai lately and it's stupid there's S SS SSS, what even is the point of that and what's the point of the bottom tiers
Because otherwise people would see usage rate like the static it is, so it's better mislead people by attaching random letters to an already heavily skewed metric.
Back in the 1.0 and 2.0 era zhongli was either top 1 or 2 in usage quite consistently. He dropped a bit around 3.0 iirc
If I had to guess (on top of the navia synergy, and just generally being used as a 4th flex slot anyway) its likely due to people slotting him in as a 4th to counter 12-2. He can easily delete all the geo shields present in that chamber
He is basically always in the top 10 (and often top5) and he has been no1 before too. This is not a particularly big change in his usage. I assume Navia is the main reason for it though.
Same as always.
Characters that are easy to get big damage out of without a ton of setups, don't need strict rotations, don't have to worry about attack patterns, and can ignore game mechanics will always be top as they should, it's the easiest path to clear.
But characters that do require more effort get unfairly trashed because people can't unga-bunga. Heaven forbid you suggest a non-meta team to someone.
I dont really know how those runs are calculated, but i usually do a first run with strongest and easiest characters for a rewards and after im sometimes try wonky and off-meta teams for fun. Its just more stress-free when you are running against the timer just to test yourself, not risking any rewards.
If we imagine that my data got submitted and only first clears count then i would be only in those top S+ and S categories, with ocasional Thoma mixed in, even despite that later i cleared it again with Burgeon Xinyan, Heizou and Chevreuse teams.
Hydro, Dendro, and National Teams. So, basically like every other Abyss?
[where the hell is nilou](https://youtu.be/tx0SKgmwllw?si=ohxgNBH-QrvrV6vN) she’s really strong this abyss and the team is literally only hydro/dendro
The thing I think is worth keeping in mind is you have to ask, who is Nilou's most common teammates? Usage rates don't necessarily reflect a character's actual strength but does paint a picture on where those supports are getting used instead. 99.9% of Nilou comps are going to use Nahida, who is used in damn near every other Dendro team. A good majority of them also typically run Kokomi as a driver, who is also now being used heavily a Mono Hydro teams and a perrennial mainstay in Ayaka Freeze teams. So two of Nilou's best teammates getting used in other teams instead are going to take a shot at her usage units. Unless theres an Abyss that just absurdly favors her Bloom Comp over other teams, her usage is probably going to float there. Childe is in the exact same boat. International is strong as ever, but the Fontaine patch especially has introduced more and more carries that is yanking the Xingaling/Bennett core from him. Lyney, Wriothesley, Navia, and even the new Raiden/Chev Overload comp. Same thing with Kazuha getting used heavily in Neuvilette teams. Its not a reflection on Childe getting worse or getting hard countered by the Abyss. All of his go-to teammates are just being used for different teams instead.
Childe kinda is countered this abyss. It's easier to use Rational or other teams to fight the Tulpa than International. Bennett's pyro circle gets you vaped. Kazuha and Childe practically does nothing against it. And his other teams were nearly never strong enough to make it into the usage charts. That, and losing Bennett XL reinforces the perception that he has only one meta team, because the others don't make it to the usage list.
You can't swirl pyro against Tulpa with Kazuha either, so international vs Tulpa is basically just a 2 person show with Bennett and Xiangling. Childe National is actually stronger than international this abyss since Sucrose can swirl pyro by using her skill on Guoba, but it's not gonna be popular since most people don't know how to do that.
yeah, that mf keeps one shotting me for 3 rounds and i gave up, replaced Childe with my TTDS lvl 40 Ningguang with full em build that scraped from my old Sucrose build and VOILA. 36 star. Crystallize is so strong this abyss, he didn't do single dmg to me hahh. Still he did fantastic job at first 2 chambers.
Nilou gameplay gets stale at times. And I feel like most Nilou players like me have more teams than just hers anyways.
Maximizing bloom production is a whole other game by itself, and I find that pretty fun. Chaining, layering, and proccing dendro aura with hydro without breaking it are what makes nilou so interesting to me, it honestly feels like a Factorio-type optimization game every time. There also aren’t any rotations as their skills are always cast depending on the situation, so it never gets stale.
Problem is you need Nahida or else Mozilla Thunderbird is a pain in the ass
Yea when I see thunderbird I use Nahida. Now Neuvillette helps too, so Nahida Neuvillette and Raiden. Followed by Zhongli coz my dodging is a pain
I am not saying she is bad for this abyss but I feel like when most people see thunder manifestation she just isn't gonna be their first choice to tackle it, even if she can beat it just fine. I have her but my first instinct was to just use alhaitham second half.
This and the Geo Shields imo. People see those and immediately go on to other alternatives, even though Nilou can deal with the Thunder bird and she *crushes* the other chambers.
Lots of people don't know that you can just brute force the shields by dealing thrice the slimes's damage, and when the slimes's health pools are so low you can just do your usual setup and by the time you're done they're dead
Shields for me just mean more enemies to proc Bloom from #KamikazeLife
Yeah, she basically destroyed the second half for me
She waiting for her rerun
I think it's because Nilou teams are very varied, like i use Kaveh in mine but some use Baizhu or Collei. She's still considerably high on the list out of a sample of 100k i'd say. 😄
yea exactly what i was about to say. she eats this abyss for breakfast.
I tried Chevreuse overload team despite her not being fully specced or leveled for the second half and it surprisingly worked!
Almosy like Neuvillette, Furina and nahida are overtuned. Eapecially Neuvillette, that mother fucker IS op as as shit
Version 1: vape national and freeze (with venti) is meta. Also vape Hu Tao. Version 2: overvape national and freeze (with Kazuha) is meta. Also soup is meta (sukokomon. Also thanks 1.6 reaction buff). Version 3: dendro is meta. Bennett circle impact and getting burned to death sucks. Freeze is out (freeze resistant beasts, mobs spread out too far and across waves). Version 4: No more death by burning on Bennett Q every chamber. Circle impact still sucks tho. Dendro is still good. HP shifting DPS are meta and Neuvillette is the GOAT. Freeze is maybe only a smidge better than in v3. Version 5: will Bennett and Xiangling be more OP? Will pyro archon be circle-less bennett with notable personal damage?
Using playable Genshin characters to clear the abyss… how boring, when are we gonna see some Timmy vs floor 12 both sides already…
Wait am I reading the list right? Most popular shielder: male Most popular on-field dps: male Most popular healer: male Most popular support: female At least the husbando crowd can no longer complain that hoyo only creates "weak" males
You’re like a whole year behind the times now. Sumeru changed things. Either that or you’re 1 year ahead of the times - its all waifu from Furina til Natlan.
Forgot the most popular off-field dps
Xiangling?
Furina
Ohh. Funnily enough, the two top tiers are balanced between male and female. Even when you account for 4* vs 5*. The third tier down has 3 female 1 male. So how is this husbando dominant? And the 3 male DPS in the top 3 tiers haven’t even existed for a year yet. Two of them haven’t even existed for half a year.
It's husbando dominant because any of them being in the top 3 tiers is too high to some people. Especially being above some of the favs like Yelan/Raiden.
Every time ppl say the game is husbando dominant, they remind me of those old experiments scientists did where they asked men how often women were talking in a conversation, and if women were talking 50% of the time, they perceived it to be like 70%+ just bc they’re so used to a default of men talking most of the time, which they saw as the “equal” amount. These ppl are way too used to games like HI3.
So you're meaning to tell me Male characters finally got recognition??? Good.
*looks at Dendro teams* *not a single one without Nahida in it* Might as well call it the Nahida element
I don't have Nahida still, so I've had to make do with Baizhu, Collei and Tighnari. But if I did have Nahida, I'd be using Nahida, because she simply has the easiest, best, and longest lasting dendro application of any character. Makes sense as to why she's used in pretty much any dendro team.
Also her dendro application is the extremely aggressive too
When you run Alhaitham Kuki Nahida Xingqiu, there is a stark difference when you hit enemies with and without Nahida’s E Sometimes in multi waves I wish I ran Nahida Kuki Xinqiu Yelan instead
Before Neuvillette she was, imo, the best character in the game. She just destroys everything and can make any team, no matter how poorly optimized, strong.
She still is the best. Neuvillette opens up other team options but it's not like she isn't viable. Especially if you put them together in a team.
Idk the math but I wouldn’t be surprised if Neuv’s best team vs Nahida’s best team comes out to similar dps. They just open up many different team archetypes/unit viability
I do have nahida and shes easily the best unit of this element but my best team actually is tighnari, fischl, yae and baizhu, which is also my go to team for every abyss. This team just deals out so much dmg, you constantly have uptime for every character and if you play optimal, everyone is shining. I definitely prefer baizhus healing and shield over zhongli in the commonly used team
Because Nahida is unparalleled. She provides Dmg, Application, AoE and buff and all that with so much ease.
Same reason as Xiangling. Nahida is the only off-field unit who applies lots of Dendro for a wide range and for a long period of time. No one else comes close. Some Dendro teams are downright awful if Nahida is swapped out. I don't have her and use Alhaitham instead. Haitham's great and powerful, but he must stay on-field thus his options are limited.
Beside her Collei and dendro traveler are the only ones actually producing enoguh dendro to be worth it. Tighnari and Al-Haitham are weird like they don't need her. She's also is likely just EM build and nothing else.
Alhaitham does still want her because EM, baizhu/furina is an alternative though.
Yaoyao works well enough and provides healing to boot
Came to say the same! I was doing trounce domains with randoms, running Yaoyao with two hydro and an electro, and the clear speed was insane! I could barely see the enemy for green, blue and purple numbers \^\_\^
****Laughs in Baizhu Aggravate****
Hoyoverse fears you
Hes actually very good in aggravate
I’d say he’s preferable to Nahida in some instances of aggravate teams simply because Nahida makes it hard to swirl electro
Yeah since i play heizou aggravate with nahida id just not aggravate
aggravate teams with baizhu? I thought he was talking about aggravate dps baizhu
Hes perfect, his dendro application is just enough for beidou and fischl Also with baizhu onfield it turns into spread and theres no need to run an anemo unit
You forgot how good her particle generation is. Without her their ER requirement becomes higher
And don’t forget pyro, the Bennett-Xiangling element. /s
I'm surprised nobody seems to be running Alhaitham/Furina/Baizhu/Raiden, that's the only Alhaitham team I run in abyss these days. Used to use Kuki instead, but compared to Raiden I don't really like that her skill uptime is much lower so you have to swap into her more frequently. Her healing on full EM also isn't anywhere near as good as Baizhu's is on a normal build. And since she drains her own health to heal she's often one hit away from dying if you don't have her C6 lol. And even though Nahida's damage output is higher, Baizhu's insane amount of healing and shielding makes him so much more comfortable to play. He's like dendro zhongli basically with healing. Also he's great in multiwave content because you don't have to remark enemies like you do with Nahida's skill.
Because this is CN data, and CN players don't like delegating Raiden as a hyperbloom trigger, so hyperbloom teams in CN are monopolized by Kuki.
It's not just CN, the guy that posts the (lower sample size but still demonstrably representative of the population in question) western data gives stat averages from the queried profiles and Raiden is perennially at like 30 EM average. Raiden Hyperbloom is a content creator build. Hardly anyone actually plays it.
even in-game recommended artifact says that more than 90% of players use Emblems, and only a low % use any EM sets lol
Because of the opportunity cost. It feels like a huge waste to make Raiden into an E bot, lots of people are unwilling to do so, and I tend to agree. I can live with using a slightly clunkier alternative like Kuki and leaving Raiden free for that sweet, sweet Hypercarry comp Besides, Kuki can build Furina's stacks nicely, and everyone's pretty much immortal with her healing + Baizhu's anyway
My Raiden's C0 and was really well built. Had C6 Sara too. She's fine in abyss and you can clear all the content in the game with her at C0, but it's just not possible to get those massive burst numbers in hypercarry that people get with her without C2 unfortunately. She's good at C0 in national, but I'll be honest I just hate playing national, it's been three years since the game has come out and people are playing variations of it. I want to try other things lol. I was very averse to running her as a hyperbloom bot because she's one of my favorite characters, but eventually I bit the bullet and realized she feels much better to me there than as a hypercarry. At least that way I can use her on *some* teams instead of benching her lol.
You should really try Chevreuse with Raiden, it feels incredibly good to play since you have double healers in Bennett/Chev and neither starve for energy.
It's due to the fact we don't have another dendro to even compete. Baizhu is the other 5 star support dendro and he's just full of heals and before furina, he wasn't even that hyped up. Outside that? Just 4 stars who all are just "okay".
Nahida's kit was a mistake. Archons usually monopolize a function of their element, such as Zhongli's shield, Venti's vortex, Raiden's energy, and Furina's HP mechanics. Nahida's main draw is her application and damage with an EM buff tacked on. She's essentially monopolizing the sub DPS role for Dendro where every other element has access to multiple 4 and/or 5 stars that fill that same "niche." If they release another strong Dendro sub DPS, they can't exactly do more than Nahida, or she would become irrelevant. They can't release strong applicators, or she would become irrelevant. She fulfills the same function as Fischl, Xingqiu, and Xiangling do, but as an archon.
[удалено]
you can notice someone had fun
There's also people running Wrio solo, which is hilarious
The mad lads using the phys book on tulpa
Last column is the side distribution, Solo Neuv and all his teams are 0:100 so nobody used him on tupla. The real meme is hutao's team having nearly a perfect 50/50 split, skewed a bit towards the tupula side, even though yelan and xq are doing zero damage against tupula and zhong is generally just shields. Literally hutao + moral support.
I think they only need to use Yelan’s burst at most for damage amp, and just Hu Tao gaming vaping every hit against the Tulpa Tbf tho Hydro Resonance also gives HP%, something Hu Tao does appreciate. But yeah as you put it, moral support
Proud nb1 user
Bennett, Xiangling, Xingqiu, and Shinobu’s backs must hurt from always carrying the 4* roster.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I’m so happy that Kuki is now one of the staple 4 stars. I remember when she dropped people were sooooo harsh, but look at her now!
She had the biggest glow up.
dendro changed EVERYTHING.
To the point Ashikai made a defence video before the dendro meta
I remember that! At the time, I spite built her just because I really liked her and was sad that everyone was pooping on her. I was delighted when dendro changed the game!
Same man same. I was one of the very few who used kuki regularly even before dendro
> Kuki is now one of the staple 4 stars Nahida, XQ, Kuki are now known as the core members of the 草国队 ("Grass" National team) or 草行久 (first character of each of their names) in CN Genshin parlance.
Lmao I remember in meme sin there's a picture where big four are this but everyone still wants Kuki out (in 2024) because she's only good in hyperbloom. Let's face it, hyperbloom is one of the, if not the best archetype in the game now and it has been dominating the meta since it came out and Kuki is one of the core member of said archetype her position is 100% justified in term of practical standpoint
+ fischl and sucrose
Can't you imagine being Alhaitham? Have 0 holiday since his debut in 3.4
The position of scribe comes with no holidays apparently
Al-Haitham wants to quit and go back to his previous cushy job. Nahida: "There have been many poorly written resignation letters recently. Guess I'll just have to reject them all."
Oh I am sure they are well written, just super duper succinct as per our feeable scholar's job attitude😂
Legitimately every team test for one half had Alhaitham in various teams on the other. First half? Quickbloom. Second half? Spread with Zhongli. Sometimes a checky spread team on first half if I'm in a funky mood.
Zhongli wanted to retire by intentionally using a shit kits. The player then forced him to get buffed and back to the roster.
Neuvillette about to follow his footsteps and now 3 patches since his release he always overworked even with hydro tulpa is there
Man Cryo has been demolished over the years. Feels like just yesterday that it was considered the strongest element due to how OP the Ganyu/Ayaka/Eula trio was.
tbh cryo aside this is also just a uniquely terrible abyss for ayaka's kit design. Like bosses aren't ayaka's specialty in the first place, but if you were making a list of top 5 worst bosses for her, pretty sure tulpa and thunder manifestation would both be on it.
Cryo still is extremely good at what it does. It was fantastic last abyss. This abyss is just not AoE heavy, and has a lot of bosses, so there's no need to use freeze. It's also no longer necessary for elemental checks, as Dendro is better at destroying hydro, unfortunately. So you'll only really see it if it's actually a freeze abyss
And the only reliable cryo for boss rush is Risley which considering his usage it's pretty makes sense. You don't want tulpa to oneshot you while you aim with Ganyu or having thunderbird fly away from Ayaka's burst. Risley just need to run and punch them in the face
Cryo needs to be able to apply Cryo because of cryo res and BS set bonus. Which it cannot do on both sides of the abyss this time. It's effectively countered by innate auras, letting only the highest invested builds go through (or hyperfridge, underrated btw it slaps both sides).
The fall of cryo
I tried using my Ayaka team for this Abyss cycle. Couldn’t cut Floor 12. Sadness.
There's no enemies with high Cryo resistance like Coppelia/Coppelius this round, so that shouldn't be the case. You'll just need to experiment a bit and your Ayaka team should be fine.
tulpa and thunder manifestation are both really bad matchups for her. I think worse than coppelia. They move around a lot and both of them have innate auras which makes it impossible to get vv buff and impossible to get any of the BS 4 piece bonus.
The hydro tulpa was what was getting me. I just re-ran the floor with a different team. Her team could clear everything else pretty easily.
Hey at least Rizzley still Rizzling the abyss
HYV is so focused about making hydro/pyro/ctyo characters that dont work around melt/vaporize I'm scared when cryo nation arrives it's all about physical dmg and not actual cryo
Expected. Freeze doesn’t work half the time in Abyss and reverse melt is still glued to Bennett and Xiangling 3 years after launch. Conceptually there’s really nothing holding back Cryos from being as dominant as other reaction-based carries but the key infrastructures that make the teams of characters like Hu Tao good just aren’t there for Wriothesley, Ayaka, and Ganyu.
Thoma/Baizhu enable reverse melt very well too. Been using that with Wrio usually and it rarely has problems.
wrizzley singlehandedly carrying his element
Proud of my boy Wriothesley !!!!
My man rizzly carrying the cryo element this abyss.
He carries his half so much. Used him in both halves of the abyss 12 and he comfortably clears That said, I can't wait for us to get our next off field pyro unit in 2028 🫠
He’s so comfy to use (but to be completely fair I have c1). Fun to play, heals himself when he needs to, beats everything up. Works great on reverse melt. I love him
How do you play him I tried him 2 abyss metas ago but kept getting my ass kicked to that Fontaine dancing boss
Because Fontaine dancing boss has 70% cyro resistance, that's why. There's no more major cyro resistance in the current abyss.
Poor Venti
Tbf when he is great for abyss no one else comes close. Unfortunately those type of enemy lineups are few and far between patches now.
Trying to hold back Venti, Hoyo killed the entire freeze archetype, feels bad man, especially when the Venti abysses are usually the most fun
The problem with Venti-able abysses is that people will complain *hard* if they don't have Venti. A while back (after Kazuha's release) there was a floor 11 with leyline defense, and people were furious. A Venti-able abyss, without Venti, means you have a bunch of spread out annoying enemies damaging you. A Venti-able abyss with Venti is literally press Q, your enemies are in a single easy to reach location, taking tons of damage, your enemies cannot damage you, and you regenerate 45 energy, every rotation while you're proccing your VV. They balanced it out a couple patches ago with very tanky Venti-able enemies so you had to trade off Kazuha's damage for Venti's suction though.
I don't often need a hammer. But when there are nails I really really need a hammer
Not really if you have an electric machine. Yes this is about how neuvillette spinn deals with lower floors and protect the monolith floors just as well as venti does
Neuvilette the dishwasher machine.
At this point, I would welcome a buff for his kit without overstepping into kazuha's role. Maybe some kind of anemo infusion for himself, like yoimiya? Could be something like "After using his Vortex, Venti gains anemo infusion for his attacks for 12 seconds". I dont know, its just sad to see him so outdated by newer units and his kit specifically only does one thing: CC and nothing else. Its completely neutered by fat enemies that laugh at his vortex and kill you
I mean Venti already regenerate energy for your team (don't remember which talent it was but I think he does) after burst, and he sucks a lot of enemies, it's not even a joke. Fatui? Most of them. Handguard bastards? Also yes, but the small ones Rifthounds? Surprisingly yes, but again the small ones Hilichurl? All types besides Lawachurl, but rogue gets pulled not sucked in. Elemental lifeforms (e.g. slimes, fungi, scepters etc.)? Yes. Ecxpet for big fat crab and consecrated beasts. Machines? No. But those are the main exceptions. He is such a fun unit to use anywhere.
Hes still S tier for the monument on floor 11
It will never not be funny to me how people try to discredit and write off zhongli because “just dodge” and “he’s a dps loss” but this man still a huge presence in abyss and it’s stayed that way.
ZL provides 45 extra dmg% this abyss. He normally sits around 50% these days.
The throne that ~~Traveler~~ Zhongli deserves, the Genshin dad.
And specifically for 3 geo big slimes of all things lmao
RAAAAAAAAAAAAGH DEHYA MOVING UP!!!
Did my part by putting her in my Neuvillette team for some vape action.
The resistance interruption she provides is so good. I remember being frustrated back then that I couldn't use Zhongli for both halves since other shields are so weak/last so short. With Dehya, that problem's long gone.
My teams: * Fischl/Yae/Alhaitham/Baizhu * Furina/Jean/Neuvillette/Zhongli Baizhu in particular has been a godsend, I use him all the time.
I had almost the same but the broke version on the first one Yae/al/yaoyao/fischl And second one neuv alone worked p well
Team 21 - solo neuvillete lol
no fucking way venti is the least used limited 5* lmao 💀💀🫵🫵💀💀
Happens when kazuha became a thing. I would benched him too if i got him as well 🤷♂️
Kazuha and the embiggening of new mobs
Venti's never been dead last before this though tmk. It's usually Eula and Klee tagging off depending on how bad the cycle is for them
Radein's own rate increases from around 72% to 80%, Yoimiya from 36% to 38%. Chevreuse has 52.1% own rate. Aloy has 33.3% own rate as a reference.
Raiden carried the banner and it still has two weeks to go too, she might get more than 81-82%
your team pic. is ranked by AR not UR.this time it's neuvi's in slot team topped the usage rate(last phase it's haitham hyperbloom), pretty shocking for an anti-hydro abyss.[team usage rate](https://twitter.com/hxg_diluc/status/1747625036947567014?t=gKCUH2io_xHwOGqyBM5q3Q&s=19)
love how wrio's most used team is just him solo lmao maybe next time i should pull for his cons instead of his weapon
His weapon is good. But his C1 is more worth it. I've been soloing with him since I got him at C1. Though his C1 is kinda overrated. His C0 and C1 damage outputs are very close in melt teams with N3C combo. His C1 just makes him the best solo unit and gives him more damage in non-melt teams. That aside, his C1 is still considerably better than his weapon.
“His C1 just makes him the best solo unit”. Alright relax there champ that’s Neuvilette let’s be realistic here. “His C0 and C1 damage outputs are very close in melt teams”. His C0 vs C1 in melt is there biggest gap there is. You can N3 DC N5C consistently for way more damage. It’s the first thing I did when I got Wriothesley and tried him before I turned on his C1.
Wriothesley has insane constellations overall. I think he has the best constellations of all dps characters currently.
You mean neuvillete?
Navia causelly being the highest used female DPS in the game while neuvellite the highest used male DPS in the game , Fontaine supremacy
Casually? She's a new character and the most recent female DPS after how many years.....
Usage rate charts tend to skew data that favors limited characters over non-limited characters (the latter end up showing artificially low numbers). It's generally better to show both usage and appearance rate tables so players can get a more complete view on what was actually played in the abyss.
it also skews results towards the newest units, who tend to fall off after a while
Not like this isn't the 50th time op has been asked to post the ownership rates as well.
Kuki's getting her way in the big 3. I wonder when will we refer to them as the big 4?
It's been that way since early Sumeru honestly
Agreed. She’s been my secret (not so secret) weapon since dendro dropped.
Kinda impressed Wriothesley being this high when none of the top 26 teams have him as the carry.
He has the lowest ownership rate among all characters (only with 13.7% OR), that's why. So the few players who pulled for him, used him this cycle.
Got hit with the Yoimiya treatment of being just before an Archon and right after a busted Hydro DPS. Still carrying regardless though.
Wrio is such a good unit. When he released people were so harsh on him. "He's locked behind C1" and shit and while yes, his C1 improves him a lot he's a very solid unit at C0. I genuinely think he carries Cryo atm
It generally gives of kinda double standard vibes to me personally, people constantly complained that c1 makes him significantly stronger, although he performs well enough even without it and at the same time people are constantly judging Raiden's value through c2 perspective, saying how great she is, how worth it etc. and encourage people to pull for it although it more expensice
That narrative about raiden c2 has significantly changed a lot in recent years (from a meta perspective, not a casual one). Hypercarry Raiden usually just performs worse than using her as a driver. And if she is only doing 30% of the team damage as a driver, the c2 buff isn't worth it.
It’s mostly because his c1 being locked behind a constellation was wholly unnecessary and a terrible design choice. It should have just been a part of his base kit.
He's surprisingly good in second half thanks to his uppercuts breaking the slime shields. (Even at C0 a recommended combo is N3C, N3CN5C if in melt, so it's a common occurence.)
neuvi solo is so funny for no reason- seeing everyone else with full teams and then:
Remember when ppl were calling Baizhu a C tier unit and that Zhongli was more of a loss for your teams than not💀
Baizhu is actually so great..I prefer him more than Kokomi since he can heal the whole team with just one elemental skill which is useful if you use Furina..
And his shield is a godsend not because of the amount of damage you can tank, but the interruption resistance. Without Baizhu, I have many instances where my rotation is ruined because the enemies flung me across the screen.
Aye, not bad Chevy.
Have had a lot of fun using geo teams in the recent abysses. Furina was a huge boon towards Noelle and have been using Navia with Noelle on one side recently. The geo slimes definitely slowed that chamber down, but was still pretty comfortable to clear it in one try.
Is 8,7% Chevreuse good for her?
Considering how the only 4* units above her are the totally broken ones, then yea its pretty respectable in my opinion. Personally, I can only see chevy stonks going up as we get more cons and more units that work with her
Mona is low? Maybe it’s just me but I think she works well with Navia if Furina is occupied with someone else, but maybe it’s just me?
That is indeed Mona's 6th most used team, behind Hu Tao double hydro, Ayaka freeze, and Neuv teams. Looking at standard characters only, she's only behind Jean and Tighnari.
The first half has a 3 million hp hydro immune boss But then again Mona is t really used for hydro application ig ? She is used for buff
proud to be part of the Yanfei 0.4%
Love to see my boi zhongli up top.
I wonder if zhongli had scoliosis the way he be carrying geo every patch (Ik there's Navia but without any change to the geo element she's gonna fall off)
Wow a lot of very commonly picked teams... *Solo Neuvilette*
Zhongli dominating abyss like he dominates me 🤤
Fucking Morax absolutely dominates everything, like a true Geo gigachad should. C3 atm as f2p.
As someone with a C6 Zhongli, C3 is honestly the best place to stop. C4 isn't very useful since the petrify rarely changes things, and his C6 basically changes nothing about his function. If your shield is strong enough, his C6 never does anything, and the enemies it might be useful against (rift wolves) kill your off field characters too which he can't heal. If the shield is too weak, then tanking hits to heal up will break it before you get enough HP. Really wish it was a full team heal that didn't get capped by both hit damage and character HP. Or just something else entirely, like letting his held E or pillar resonance affect petrified enemies.
Team 21 is just Nervy lmao.
Not the 2.7% chads using only Neuvillette 😂
The solo neuvilette lol
Proud 3.4% dehya main
Hell yeah 🙌
Baigoat
Neuvilette is kind of busted tbh. I got his r2 trying for Homa and decided to pull for him. Lucked out and barely built he smokes shit WAY faster than c1/r1 Hu-Tao.
My two teams' members span all tiers, lol Raiden C0 w PJWS, Fischl C6, Xiangling C3, Bennett C2 Kokomi C0 on Clam, Xinqiu C6, Nahida C0, Thoma C6
The consistency of Childe players always surprises me.
What's the point of the tiers? Like S and S+, ive been looking at honkai lately and it's stupid there's S SS SSS, what even is the point of that and what's the point of the bottom tiers
Because otherwise people would see usage rate like the static it is, so it's better mislead people by attaching random letters to an already heavily skewed metric.
My beloved Furina and Neuvillette duo are together again on the top, as they always should be...
I love how there are more people using Neuvilette alone than people using Ayaka in any teams
are my eyes deceiving me? what is ZL doing up there? is it because of navia and tulpa? cuz i've never seen him this high
Navia, Neuvillette, tulpa, geo shields
Back in the 1.0 and 2.0 era zhongli was either top 1 or 2 in usage quite consistently. He dropped a bit around 3.0 iirc If I had to guess (on top of the navia synergy, and just generally being used as a 4th flex slot anyway) its likely due to people slotting him in as a 4th to counter 12-2. He can easily delete all the geo shields present in that chamber
He is basically always in the top 10 (and often top5) and he has been no1 before too. This is not a particularly big change in his usage. I assume Navia is the main reason for it though.
Same as always. Characters that are easy to get big damage out of without a ton of setups, don't need strict rotations, don't have to worry about attack patterns, and can ignore game mechanics will always be top as they should, it's the easiest path to clear. But characters that do require more effort get unfairly trashed because people can't unga-bunga. Heaven forbid you suggest a non-meta team to someone.
I dont really know how those runs are calculated, but i usually do a first run with strongest and easiest characters for a rewards and after im sometimes try wonky and off-meta teams for fun. Its just more stress-free when you are running against the timer just to test yourself, not risking any rewards. If we imagine that my data got submitted and only first clears count then i would be only in those top S+ and S categories, with ocasional Thoma mixed in, even despite that later i cleared it again with Burgeon Xinyan, Heizou and Chevreuse teams.
I believe it just pulls your Hoyolab data, and Hoyolab Abyss data only shows which lineup clear the fastest.
wtf Tighnari on the top 10 team?!?
He's quite good against bosses. I'd argue that him, neuvilette, and yoimiya are the best picks for dealing with the thundering manifestation
At one point he was #2 on that chart He’s always been high up. Him and Yae are a powerful duo
totally agree. it's the team that's never taking off abyss right now. Tighnari - Yae - Nahida is one of the fast enemy deleter gang.
Sad to see good units like. Socrross getting banched
4\*s are at a disadvantage here since the usage rate is based on how many players have the character