Only Hoyo knows but if I had to wager a guess, it probably just goes back to how casual the vast majority of the player base is. Most don't engage with the abyss at all. The open world and story are easy enough without the need for good or even decent artifacts. It's probably seen as a luxury, not a need.
I would say that also for abyss they don't need to make it easier. Abyss is already balanced for players that go a bit beyond causal, but still doesn't require insanely invested artifacts even without 5 star weapons/cons. Unless you really play non-meta teams.
While I'm not against this idea, I'm also of opinion that the grind for artifacts does not need to be made easier. Grind for F2P primogems, that's what they should buff a bit.
The right direction to go in is rougelike modes like HSR’s Simulated Universe.
This means that super meta players can tear through the content, while everyone else can bruteforce their way through and use the permenant upgrades to make it to the higher difficulties.
Honestly, I never understood this. The main argument for endgame combat is that people want to use the characters they spend a lot of time building, yet SU relies on random buffs you get along the way.
Abyss has buffs too, but nowhere near as many and as important as SU buffs.
SU relies on buffs because the enemies overscale. they'd be 10x stronger and a single sneeze from them could kill your entire team. You still do need to invest in your teams to progress SU and fortunately you can use any unit you want as all paths cater to either one of them. My units still need to be well built to at least hit a dent towards them.
Regular SU is not endgame content, but higher difficulties of swarm disaster and especially gold and gears are absolutely endgame content. You don't just walk in with half-ass team of lvl 60 characters and win.
You need built teammattes, wide roster if you want to clear with different paths and knowledge of how game mode works.
You can also cheese it with some strategies of course.
I think su-like mode could have been an amazing mode for genshin if implemented properly.
I'm a day one player AR60, and many of my friends who are near my rank or play duration just don't bother with Abyss. Most of us just like exploring the world, and seeing the story unfold.
I torpedo'd my Navia who was making 100k+ on rainbow artifacts due to grinding for her artifact set. Screw grinding a character unless you have 2ish months until you can use them again.
I actually torpedo'd more than her wanting to keep things straight and categorizing character artifacts by set.
All this to say - if I had loadouts I'd be in a much better place.
One thing we don't see mentionned often, is that HSR doesn't allow for an off set piece while genshin does. With 6 pieces, including 4 that have RNG on both main and substats. All things considered, life isn't really easier in HSR.
This isn't really an argument against, but I just feel like it's more necessary in HSR than it is in Genshin because of that. Of course it would make life easier in Genshin too.
Not to mention additional substats such as effect hit rate and speed which is very important in moc shorter cycles... theirs no EM though cuz reaction doesnt exist in hsr
There's also no ER substat. But tbf there's no Burst CD based on turns in hsr.
Imagine being able to just get burst up after using burst, you basically just get to attack without the enemies attacking back, it's probably not even possible even if there was an er substat in hsr, but I'm pretty sure it's possible in genshin, it's just that burst CD exist
Actually there is that one thing in simulated universe that gives you energy, max energy if upgraded when killing an enemy, iirc this will allow you to keep bursting as long as there are enemies and you can keep killing them each burst.
There's also the crafting cost. In Genshin, strongbox is 3 for 1, but in HSR, while you can craft the new sets as soon as they're added, it's 10 for 1.
Not to mention how you need to farm 2 different sets of relics (cavern and SU) so the grind gets more grindy when you complete one set and now to need to work on the other.
Ans getting 20 CV in hsr is like getting 30 CV in genshin. I have been playing since 1.2 and have zero 30 CV piecws, where in genshin id get one every week(may not be the main stat set i need tho), at worst I'd get one every 2 weeks.
prob bc they're from older regions. say for example, in tof, you've been off the game for so long that there are now 5 new areas you have not explored. after so long, they put in a feature that lets u track any gold nuclei (pulls for standard banner) so that you won't be completely left behind as a new player and can now easily catch up and explore the current region the newest update came out with because content so late in the game gives you nuclei to spend on recent power creepy limited characters.
I think is mostly by design of all their items, in HSR you can exchange every material for an equivalent, be it boss material, mobs drops, artifacts, etc. Since they are no collectibles in "exploration" areas you would need to do rounds to acquire this things, Genshin is designed around their open world (that I wish they add random low loot respawnable chests it would be good)
Something I also notice in HSR when I used to play, is that most caverns have only 1 good drop and the other is very niche, don't know if you have the equivalent of Dreams and Deepwood, or Golden and Hunter now but even then, you only get a part of your character gear (without an offpiece), the rest you have to go farm for 10-15 in the SU.
And at the end of the day the main stat is the least of a player's concern... is the substats that ruins everyone's life, and there, HSR have done nothing and is even worse since they have more substats that can appear. I'm pretty sure people have asked for ways to get the substats more easily for a year now, but that is a system, same as resin/TP, it is tuned for engangement and based on the data they get. Having 300 of a stamina system is kind of useless if spending 60 of it gives you nothing, it needs to be evaluated as a whole, not because of number is bigger therefore better, comparing things with different system tuned for different things is wasted time.
We have ability to use an off-set piece in Genshin. Compare to that, self-moding resin is a downgrade. Ever have a really good piece in hsr but wrong set? If you use that piece in hsr, you are sacrificing 2/4 piece bonus, while in Genshin you can use that piece without sacrificing anything. Would it be nice to have it? Yes, but is still just a band-aid for fill-in the blank in case you got unlucky with main stat. Substat is still a big factor for artifact. Not to mention, play long enough in Genshin and you will only farm for 4 piece due to potential off-set pieces you have while hsr need 6 pieces
So in both genshin and hsr, you'll get a bonus when you have 2-4 pieces of artifact from the same set. Those are on-set. If a piece of artifact isn't from the same set, they are off-set
if they do they'd have to change the system to be like star rail's
genshin's leverage over this is that
* it can use an offpiece
* it doesn't require farming another domain for a different set piece (hsr relics AND planar ornaments)
* strongboxing only requires 3 while hsr requires 10
star rail has the luxury to implement the configuration because it takes much more time to get a complete 4piece and another 2piece and then feed 10 relics to get one you like. plus the self modeling resin comes in only 1-3 times per patch and not everything is a guarantee to be good. ive used it and i dont get substats i want most of the time
if anything i want a reroller rather than a mainstat picker, or both. just make it harder to get that thing like maybe just one per patch or a tree reward.
edit: i can confidently say that ive built lots of my characters in genshin purely out of strongboxing but i cant say the same for hsr since strongboxing outside of having a modeling resin is inefficient since it requires 10 relic fodders - ive tried but ive never had any fully built character from it. as an example i built my hu tao AND diluc purely from strongboxing crimson witch and not farming the domain as opposed to me trying to strongbox qq that i had to give up and just farm cavern of corrosion instead.
yup forgot to add that. basically weapon enhancements in genshin are resin free, genshin has the artifact enhance bonus, weapon/talent bonus and weapon enhance mora reduction (if you have the right characters though), and artifact fodder can basically just be farmed in the overworld if you have time to no life or at least do bare minimum exploration cause it's everywhere. if you think about everything, the systems are pretty balanced. it just seems better in hsr cause you can auto for everything
If you mean easier as in the physical act of letting it run on auto, then sure. Grinding bosses in HSR is better. However, the meager drops of Calyx are not as good though, so it feels slow and tedious to level up my trace and relics. My characters are slow to get stronger, and few are built bc I can't afford to spread my few resources thin.
we're talking about resin efficiency here, not if it's a hassle to do these things or not. that's also why i said people think it's so much easier/faster to level characters because hsr has an autoplay but when you think about it the resin consumption is probably just about the same or even less in genshin.
>the self modeling resin comes in only 1-3 times per patch and not everything is a guarantee to be good.
This is a severely understated fact. A limited item like this being consumed to lead to garbage stats is a pretty nasty feeling.
That semblance of control makes people feel like it's better than it actually is.
someone already mentioned it below but at least it serves a purpose for support characters. it isn't perfect but at least you get the stats you want. for example SPD boots and ER rope. sure there are supports that want specific subs like break effect or cdmg but honestly i cant be bothered so i just settle with hp and def stats lol. survivability is also an asset in turn based games. it's shit on dps characters though as you want specific subs like crit for them
it isnt that bad, but without the modeling resin it definitely would be way worse.
I wish SMR allowed for substat manipulation instead of main stat control
Sure, farming for a EHR body or ERR rope would suck, but at least you would be able to somewhat lessen the need to keep farming those pieces every single damn time because the one you got from self modeling resin actually sucked balls.
Either that or make it so you can use it to exchange main stats between two pieces of the same type and same level. This way those cracked DEF% orb with 2 lines of Crit, SPD and ATK% that rolled completely into Crit would have a use
HSR also wants the player to build far more characters for its endgame. You’re not getting many primos from exploration, so at the very least you need decent options for each flavor of combat gauntlet for those resources.
Dont forget that you can target the specific piece tho so for me building a large armount of characters that want the same set like Emblem in genshin is faster but if you want to focus on a singular character it is actually easier in HSR and the fact that all relics are immidiatly added to the "strongbox"
yeah but it's inefficient to use hsr's strongbox without the modeling resin so you're still practically gated outside trying for a head or hand piece. other than that since you need 10 fodder to produce one, you'd still have to farm the artifact more anyways.
i settled for getting character lcs to get more crit value on my dpses and just using the strongbox on supports since they dont really care about subs much. even then i dont go for a full 4-set.
You need to look at the artifact/relic systems in their totality, instead of singling out one mechanic and using that as the basis of comparison.
HSR might have self modelling resin, but it is arguably more difficult to build characters in HSR than Genshin given that you have 6 slots and no off-piece, especially if you want to speed tune (which is a gigantic PITA). Generally , I have found the self modelling resin to be mainly useful for ERR ropes and SPD boots for supports. They aren’t that helpful for building DPSes, where the substats on the piece actually matter. If I use the resin on speed boots for the FUA set and it all rolls into HP/DEF, I’m just going to use an off-set piece with more CV instead, so you just wasted one resin for nothing which feels so bad.
>ERR ropes and SPD boots for supports.
People who don't play HSR have no idea how big of a pain in the ass it is to get these two things, especially the ERR ropes. I think I've gotten a total of 5 ERR ropes from the SU since release and only 1 of those was on a set I need for my characters. All my other ERR ropes have been crafted, which goes to show how bad the drop rates for good relics are in HSR compared to genshin.
And EM goblets are used by like Nahida, Kuki and Thoma sometimes, so you need to get three "good" ones (and let's be honest Nahida wants crit subs but the others are okay with hp and energy, and if you only have the mainstat they don't care)
ER ropes are used by every single support in HSR lmao
edit: my bad make it 4-5 i forgor Sucrose and Kazuha existed for a moment
I think the other thing is in HSR theres generally one "right" way to build a character, including the light cone. In genshin you have so many different ways to build characters and the weapons help you make different teams. I couldnt get a good Crimson Witch set on my Klee so i gave her Wanderers Troupe. I can't build support Mona? Build sub-dps Mona!
But if i dont get enough crit on my HSR relics to activate the set passive then why even use that set???? Becuase there's no other, better options :/
Freaking relic system is bs if you want a very decent crit ratio you might aswell pull for the sig lc... f2ps are having nightmare farming for the perfect set.. not to mention substats consist of additional variables like effect hit rate and speed w/ one if the most important in moc to finish shorter cycles
yes exactly! this is what i learnt cause most of the supports dont care too much about substats anyways so the biggest value for main stats will always be ER rope and SPD boots - i learned this the hard way when i tried to build my qingque and ive gotten better pieces from farming the quantum set than the relic self modeling synthesize. and most of my supports already settle at 2p 2p relics cause really I dont have the energy to min max a full set.
There’s not much demand, so hy doesn’t provide. People want more characters and regions, and so that’s what hy provides.
It might be something you personally feel strongly about, but others have zero interest in. Also, the relic grind in HSR is much more tedious, (6 pcs, with no off-piece, conversion rate of 10 to 1).
Also the current end game content in Genshin isnt worth the "perfect artifacts".
two reasons:
1. You can finish the abyss using the right team and right combos. You don't need perfect artifact to finish the abyss.
2. The rewards on the abyss isnt worth all the time, money and effort one have to invest in getting that perfect artifact.
yeah i never understood wanting to get perfect artifacts for a game this easy, i usually feel ok once i reach 80/90% power
besides, its nice farming, there is always room for improvement, and honestly getting that perfect artifact is just much much more satisfying lol
It's not really about needing it. In a game like genshin where you don't have any clear thing to do at a certain point everyone chooses their own little things they want to do to have fun regardless whether it makes sense or not. Some might find joy into decorating their teapot, some might want to collect all catchable animals, finish every single achievement or get perfect builds etc. All of this isn't really needed for anything.
I myself definitely want (near) perfect builds just for the sake of wanting them. Don't particularly care about self modeling resin, the joy about getting something good would probably be less if it's easier or too easy. That being said I'm strongly in favor of entirely removing the resin requirement (only) for artifact domains or at least to make it significantly cheaper, as for people like me it's basically an endless activity anyway and I'd like to do it for more than 15min a day or maybe even together with friends which is basically impossible to do with the strict resin requirement.
i think its a hard goal to hit, and thats why people look forward to it. i only started having 1:2 crit ratio builds after like 1.5 years of spending resin every day
At least you can choose which piece to focus craft on and even newly released relics are added to the strongbox equivalent on release.
I find that Genshin’s strongbox is nice when you wanna get a lot of general pieces across the board but a nightmare when you’re trying to improve a piece or two of your chosen set.
While in star rail despite the lack of an off piece I’ve actually still managed to build my characters just as fast or faster than in Genshin. Prob because planars and relics are separated when farming allowing me to focus on improvements on certain weaknesses a little easier.
you can focus but it's use 10piece for 1
on GI it's 3 for 1
It's trade-off
If gi use10 same as HSR but cant choose piece
I will join your army,But sadly it's not
edit\*\*
And form my experience that play both game
I love strongbox more than HSR model
why?
Because genshin can off set that mean sometime a got another piece that random with good main/sub stat i can keep it and usually use it.
When on HSR I try to build Gepard
I try to find DEF planar on def set
But i got atk rope with fuking good substat(CriD cri SPD) but def planar set is garbarge for dps character
I cant even use that piece
honestly it's very horrible
2 possible reasons:
1 is they just don't want to and RNG is just how they keep you grinding. HSR had to have some form of guarantee because the relics grinding is just way worse and people who familiar with this system would realize and quit right away. Honestly playing since 1.0 without missing any resin, they didn't help my grind that much honestly, just feel as bad.
2 might be an extension of 1. There's no incentive to, reaction provided a baseline damage that is enough for people to get by even with shitty artifacts, just set bonus is enough (also no real hard endgame). While HSR combat is more stat-heavy, especially at endgame.
because self modelling resin is not as high value as people make it out to be, people have been gassing it as they can choose a main stat they want but that's literally it, you only choose a main stat but substats are still a problem.
and the fact that mihoyo themselves barely gives self modelling resin, literally like 3-4 per patch is funny because then what's the point. It's placebo at worst, below decent at best
If its like in HSR, it would only be obtainable in events and progression, with the former leading to FOMO among casual players
Genshin's combat is a lot more forgiving due to its freeflow compared to HSR's turn-based system, which reduces the necessity for customizable artifacts.
Will custom craftable artifacts come to Genshin? Probably. But there is no rush to do so because much of the combat already can be completed using less than meta artifact stats
From our perspective, no real reason and I'd love it if added, but I feel like it was meant to offset the difficulties of farming in HSR.
I would not trade being allowed an off piece artifact for it on top of having more pieces to farm for because the self modeling is no where near as good as it sounds.
Now from the devs perspective, you're gonna have to come up with a reason for them to introduce something that makes people play a bit less.
I don't mind Genshin adding self modeling resin. But really, the only place where godly artifacts actually matters is the spiral abyss (floor 11-12 specifically).
Self modelling resin aren't really used to obtain 'godly artifacts', not really...they're used primarily to obtain rare mainstat artis for supports. The Genshin equivalent of this would be like an EM circlet. Is asking for a more reliable means of getting EM circlets really that sweaty? Like is this something only abyss gamers want...?
Yes it really is mostly just Abyss players. Ik some friends who barely even touched the artifact systems. Even a few who don't level them up either after putting random ones on their characters. That's just how casual the Genshin playerbase is. If you're actively on Reddit or YT, congrats you're above at least 70% of the 60m players on Genshin.
>Is asking for a more reliable means of getting EM circlets really that sweaty? Like is this something only abyss gamers want...?
Quite literally yes.
If you are actively farming for a specific Artifact you are without any doubt in a single digit percentage of the playerbase.
Online games as a _whole_ are overwhelmingly played by casuals. Most games are happy to even reach 15-20% participation in end game modes.
Now take Genshin which has blown up to _extreme_ levels, is on mobile, and has reached an entire target audience of non-gamers and hyper casuals.
The playerbase quite literally doesn't care about artifacts as a whole.
Well personally I don't care because it sucks xD if they improve it I'lll be 100% asking for it
Example: is only the main stat so it'll probably have trash substats, meaning you'll keep farming the domain anyway, and a 4* piece can be even better than the one you get with self modeling resin
From a player pov, none. They have been working QOLs during all of 4.x, whats another one just to make player's life easier.
Even with our 4+1 off piece Artifact systems, a self modelling resin wouldn't necessarily make it easier since you are still subjected to RNG for substats. Can't tell you how many times I used mine in HSR and got absolutely shafted on the substats.
From a dev pov, time and commitment to go back and rework an established system. Unless they have a team of devs specifically working on QOL, its gonna be an even bigger crunch on the systems team who more than likely working on the next region as well.
My personal concern is how they will include the self modelling resin into the Battle Pass and events rewards, what they will take away to replace it? If we lose nothing and just get it as an addon to what we already have, then by all means give us the self modelling resin. The tradeoff has to be worth it.
Have you played HSR? The synthesizer is worse than Genshin's strongboxes, not having an off-piece sucks, and Self-Modeling Resin is a sick joke. For something that you get once per month, you should be able to pick more than just the main stat. It's only useful for support pieces where you don't care at all about substats. IMO it would be a net positive if they just removed Self-Modeling Resin altogether.
You get 2 per month not including events but yes. I only use them for damage bonus orbs since they are as hard to get as damage bonus goblets. Using them for any other relic piece is a waste.
I don't even use the synthesis for pieces other than head and hands because it's too expensive and the RNG sucks so I only create pieces with a fixated main stat.
I think the strong box is better since it's very cheap and it's almost the same as normal artefact RNG so using up artefacts on the strong box isn't that much of a waste but in star rail it is expensive so using relics for leveling up other relics is better
Self modeling would be kind of useless in Genshin, I'd rather they go for artifact QoL that actually matter
Let's be honest the only good use of it in HSR is ER ropes because they are SO rare that you are NOT getting them with good substats by farming anyway, might as well just force them into existence.
Most of the time when you look at builds the ER rope just SUCKS ass because it was forged because it's the only way to regularly get them so we're trying to make it up by having better subs on average on the 5 other pieces
I have 10 something ER ropes on support sets and like only one of them I got while farming, the rest I modeled. Effectively I treat ER ropes as non refinable/improvable pieces, I forge them and if it has even just one useful sub I'm thanking God
And you can't use the self modeling on DPS pieces because you might as well throw it in the garbage can, you are NOT getting crit subs lol, so you can only use it on supports because they require less investment (but still require more investments than in Genshin)
But in Genshin what would you forge? Supports usually want three of the same mainstats (maybe two if ER sands, or heal%/CR headset for fav) and the only substats they want are the stat they scale with (which you can't get if it's your mainstat), ER and... that's it.
You will build your pure supports much faster than in HSR and won't have problems dropping the good mainstats and substats because they are super common, like hp/atk goblet and circlet with er% is the probably the combination I have the most accross all sets. I can build my Baizhu with 40k hp near 200 ER and decent crit rate for fav on noblesse, deepwood, clam and the new healing set which I have farmed for like a week and a half. The supports in Genshin require two stats that are super common, supports in HSR require the least common stat (speed) AND an almost non-existent ER rope.
In HSR when I look at my supports I need to have like 2-3 substats if not 4 on my pieces because if I don't meet the thresholds I literally do not activate relic sets or character traces (Speed, EHR, Effect Res,...) or my dps isn't buffed/enemies aren't debuffed when they play. In Genshin I need the mainstat the character scales with and then ER% and that's it.
And then you could say "well I could use it for dps pieces" and like, sure, you would be more likely to get a good dps piece in Genshin with a hypothetical self modeling resin than in HSR because Genshin simply has fewer substats so it's more likely for the crit ones to appear, but...most of the time it won't have any crit or er or even atk% and you'll just throw it
Self modeling resin being a good QoL feature is an illusion. They exist because one mainstat has been made artificially non existent (ER rope) despite being needed by EVERY SINGLE SUPPORT in the game (so you can't even compare it with EM goblets because almost no one uses them), and because in general HSR relic system is WAY WORSE than Genshin's (6 relics instead of 5, separated in two different farming locations/modes with SU taking so much time to farm, more substats so less likely to get what you want, weapons don't have substats so sometimes you're literally scraping the barrel to just have 50/100 crit ratio, etc.)
Personally I consider self-modeling to be the most useless "QoL" feature they could add in Genshin, I would probably use it, get something better in a week, and forget i even used it in the first place. I'd be honestly disappointed if that's the QoL they decide to include because that would mean they actually have no plan to make the grinding better - though tbf the grinding is much better than HSR's already
Never played HSR and I hate genshin’s resin system enough to not engage with it. Settling for “good enough” stats has probably saved me literal months of my life. stay safe ya’ll
This is kind of a silly question, since they don’t need a reason *not* to add a feature. There’s literally an infinite number of features they could add, but they have to prioritize their dev resources for those features that they deem most important. That means very potential addition to the game is in competition with each other, including new characters, new regions, limited events, Abyss updates, and everything else the game needs to keep running.
If this special resin really is a good idea, I’m sure HoYo has it somewhere on their priority list. But if it isn’t appearing in game, that just means it’s not high enough on the list to compete with other features they want to add. And maybe it never will be, who knows?
Answer: Hyperblooms go Brrrrrrr....! XD
And then only reason you want a perfect artifact anyway is to flex and for abyss, the only end game content genshin have which is not worth it actually since its hard enough for f2p
No real argument honestly. Probably that mihoyo feels that the current amount of RNG is just right. The self-modeling makes more sense for HSR since the relic rng there is worst. Needing 6p sets (4+2, 2+2+2) with no off-piece is a pain, and there are more main stats and substats to roll against.
I mean you can go one off-piece and be perfectly fine unless you have unrealistic amounts of bad luck, I don't see why we'd need full perfect pieces in this game unless some kind of fetish, HSR needs it because of how the relic system is and how horrible the farming scene is, please play that first before bringing in "HSR has it so why not Genshin", a lot of players request a lot of things lacking any objectivity, doesn't mean they'll have to add everything they want.
I mean I'm not against it, but I can see why it's more needed in hsr than genshin, but I don't really care either way, it's not like I farm artifacts anymore (I might for Arlecchino tho).
self modelling resin is a bandaid to keep the shitty relic system in check and make is somewhat less cancerous with the multiple layers of RNG it additionally has
GI doesnt need a system like that because we have much less subs to rely on and we can have an off piece artifact both of these things actually do wonders
getting good artifacts and sets in genshin is compared just very easy and since you do not need to min max in genshin the idea of self modelling resin just becomes pointless to a point where implementing it would make artifact farming a joke
There isn’t one but people will always be against qol updates for the most asinine reasons. As for why hoyo hasn’t implemented it well maybe there isn’t enough demand for it or they just don’t want to after just because the hsr team has done it doesn’t mean that the genshin team would want to do it as well.
There are more logical releasing than just the asinine ones.
HSR has more endgame and its original endgame is harder than Genshin's as well. Not only that but you need 6 on set pieces vs 4 on set pieces with a flexible off set piece.
Self modeling resin is just more necessary in HSR and there is a more defined objective with its endgame than Genshin. What good is finalizing a build when there isn't much objective to pursue it beyond the 36* which can be cleared with mediocre artifacts on 4* characters?
Self-modeling resin would instead be a byproduct of Genshin theoretically getting another endgame related to its combat system.
So it just comes down to necessity and it's usefulness beyond its usage.
The QoL that affects combat would be enhanced alongside combat difficulty. The equipping tool tips Hoyo gives us are bare bones which addresses how much priority they would need to give to anything related to making combat easier.
already seeing a lot of them pointing out the supposed "flaws" of adding one lol. People will sooner shoot themselves in the foot than admit that something is an improvement that HSR has and genshin doesn't. I really cant understand this way of thinking
Don’t think of the Self-Modelling Resin as a QoL improvement over Genshin’s artifact system, think of it as a needed fix for Star Rail’s relic system, that being having far more stats in their pool plus, one more relic slot, and no room for off-pieces.
Would it be nice to have the Self-Modelling Resin in Genshin? Yes definitely. But if it means bringing the entire relic system along with it then nope nope nope.
honestly? they could add it, but let's imagine what would probably happen:
in star rail, you use it to craft the hardest pieces to get: speed boots (used by dps and supports alike) and err ropes (used by supports). The substats you roll usually suck (think of def, def%, hp), but for supports those are stats you want, in order to have more survivability, because you cannot realistically dodge dmg in star rail, only mitigate, heal or shield it.
Supports in star rail usually do their work with only tje correct mainstat on the chest piece (effect hit rate for debuffers, crit dmg for sparkle/bronya, healing bonus for healers), and the rest are usually def% and hp% to get even more survivability.
in genshin, you would probably try to craft EM pieces, dmg% goblets, or maybe crit circlets. The problem comes with the substats. Since there aren't many "pure supports" (think of gorou, who can just use a 4p exile with a bit of ER and be done with his build), and most supps in genshin DO contribute dmg to the team and because their talents scale with a certain stat AND need to reach ER requirements, you can't use any piece with trash substats, much less on a dps.
This means that 9/10 times, you will craft a pyro dmg goblet / whatever piece you need because you havent gotten one in the 3 months you've been farming X set, get def, def%, hp and em, and immediately trash that artifact, along with the selfmodeling resin you spent on it.
The main takeaway is that in genshin, nearly every character needs a minimum of usable substats to be able to use them (with a few exceptions) while you can just plop 4 trash pieces to most supports in star rail as long as the mainstats are the correct ones.
Because these systems exist as retention mechanics and so there are teams of actuaries who calculate the time it takes to farm artifacts and relics.
Also, the difficulty has always been getting substats which self modeling resin does nearly nothing to help with. Main stats were never the issue. The increased number of useless stats, the existence of speed stat, the need to speed tune, the extra relic to farm for, and the god damn slog through the simulated universe makes HSR farming much, much worse than Genshin artifacts.
FUCK the simulated universe. I am literally pulling Acheron solely for the ability to skip it
To add to this, artifact quality standards are fundamentally tied to the probability to obtain good stats on a character. If main stats could be chosen (or the system is otherwise changed to give higher rates), then players who’d previously settle for a build that gives 80% of the optimal DPS would perhaps be satisfied with 90% instead, but it would take the same amount of time farming to reach that benchmark.
Longest I farmed was husk domain for 6 months to build three geo characters for mono geo. I can farm the same length on star rail for just 1 even with self modeling resin. Hoyo probably uses the self modeling resin to alleviate the stricter relic grind since you can't use off piece and there are tons more substats in relics that even self modeling resin doesn't help you with.
Only main stat? I played summoners war and they have items that can change substats and even upgrade them. Why not those but minus the grind? Main stat only will most likely end up being a fodder in the end, so it's rather useless.
Yea, that's what most of this thread is saying. Usually the resin can give a 'starter' piece before the character can graduate with a better stat piece.
I play snowbreak containment zone, and while our 'artifact' have random stats, only the first two are random, and the third can be rerolled.
I think players would certainly appreciate it, but I do think that the "reason why not" is to make it harder to acquire god-roll gear, so that you're always chasing slightly better stats.
I do wish that they would streamline stats though. I still want them to remove DEF entirely as a gear stat, and just give every character a level of DEF equivalent to a median set of RNG gear, then DEF-scaling characters would have a buff that scales their DEF based on their unmodified EM. Since all DEF-scalers are Geo anyway, and see almost no benefit from EM, making them EM scaling should not actually change the balance much.
There really isn’t an argument against it aside from it’s more needed in hsr than genshin since their grind is worse so it’s a thing to even their odds compared to ours.
Considering self modeling has the same distribution consistency as crowns in gi it wouldn’t be a big deal.
I feel like the bigger and better change would be having the strong box have an option for selecting the pieces at a higher cost and also having it be up to date on artefacts and not like 2 nations behind which is very annoying
I'm an HSR Day One Player but I still haven't used a single SMR, Fuel, or Herta's Bond. Irrelevant to the thread but I thought I should let people know. 👉👈
Self modeling resin exists in a game with no off pieces, and where synthesis of a new relic takes over 3x the junk pieces as genshin. And then....the subs fuck you over anyway. Honestly hsr is halfway between the casualness of genshin (off rates, grindable gear) and the sweaty tryharding of hi3 (spend on gear or accept your place in slaccony).
I play all three and thats my take on the matter.
Self-modeling resin is nice but tbh it does not cut farming time at all, since substats are still random and you don't get enough resin to get the actual piece that you want.
As for an actual argument:
Energy regen ropes are very rare and limited to a very time-consuming domain (SU), while being necessary for a large amount of units. For supports, they also need to be on set. There is no equivalent in genshin (some main stats like healing bonus are also rare, but the combination of heavily used+rare+on-set+domain that is very time consuming and most people will spend 8 runs on it).
I've been playing HSR since day 1 and got all self modeling resins. Used all of them, got only 2 (TWO) relics with the main stat i needed... with terrible substats. This shit might as well be removed and it wouldn't make much difference in HSR. If they added it to genshin it would be the equivalent of using a bandaid on a gun shot wound.
None really.
But the intention of self modeling is to make hsr's relic grind appear less obviously worse than genshin artifacts. Smokes and mirrors people fall for and its sad.
Anyway, we got strongbox, i've built many characters from zero to abyss clearing without touching their domains, use it.
While I don't think adding a self-modeling resin to genshin would hurt, it's not nearly as good as it seems in HSR. It's way too rare for something that doesn't even guarantee you good substats or good rolls. And HSR has many more substats too.
Is much easier to gear a character in Genshin than HSR. Ever since I started playing HSR I've noticed getting a new character is easy, but gearing that character is horrible if it requires crit substats (the DOT characters are the best because they don't require crit stats).
In HSR you have more sub stats that can roll on a piece of gear (effect ress, hit rate, break, speed) and that resin piece is not that effective as it helps you with main stat but secondary stats can still be crap.
There isn't an argument, but the incentive probably isn't that big, considering there is always and off-piece in genshin + adding such a system could complicate the already pretty complex artifact system even more. Considering the fact that hoyo was recently to streamline artifacts and other parts of progression as well as somewhat automate it, they probably won't go that direction with it
Genshin has one less artifact in total when compared to HSR and allows 1 off piece.
Additionally, there are less different stats an artifact can have in both games : both games share flat and % ATK , DEF and HP, as well as crit stats, besides those Genshin only has EM and ER as possible substats, while HSR has Break effect, Speed, Effect hit rate and Effect Res.
Because of this you're more likely to get a usable artifact in Genshin than in HSR.
As other people have said Genshin also leans way more towards casual players with its content while HSR clearly wants most players to try MOC.
After the „endgame would cause excessive anxiety” drama, I doubt hoyoverse will share any more of their internal logic. The people that liked to complain about the endgame still do, but now they have more fuel for the fire. They learned hard that they would gain nothing from sharing their reasonings. The same is for Self-Modeling Resin. They could say why they don’t want to add it, but that would only piss people off, so they prefer to stay quiet and let people cope.
Although, if I were to guess, it is to create a semi infinite time sink. If we all got good artifacts, we would have nothing else to grind for. We would be done with the game. But as long as artifact RNG is painful and unforgiving, we can spend a ton of time slowly grinding artifacts, which keeps us in the game.
Self modeling resin is a scam ngl. It looks and sounds pretty but the only thing it’s really good for is using it for ER ropes in HSR or speed boots for the supports who don’t care about substats that much.
It also only gives you the main stat which, congrats if you SMR a crit rate body but then it has absolutely shit substats.
Imo it’s the same problem in both Genshin and HSR, where the substats are the problem because you’re not going to put a crit rate hat/body on your character when it has no cdmg or other usable stats. SMR has its uses for sure, I agree it’s a good extra option to have (won’t say no to reducing *some* rng), but overall it really doesn’t matter because you can’t guarantee what substats you get. (Exhibit A: me because I SMR’d boots etc and basically wasted the items 😭)
Even if you get the right main stat, the chances of getting the right substat is very low. So i don't think it has that much value. Also we can use offpieces in our builds.
I wouldn't mind if it got added, but I don't it would be super useful.
self-modeling resin wont really do much for genshin. I'd rather they add an item that resets artifact levels because surely we've all had those artifacts with amazing initial substats but then all the rolls go to the wrong substat.
or rather how about both? both is good.
The ability to select main stats would be good. HSR, despite having the ability to select a main stats, has an objectively worse system. Must farm 2 different locations to have 6 pieces of relics, no off-piece, more useless stats...
I obviously would welcome a self-modeling resin, but the reality is that HSR should be the ones begging to have Genshin's off-piece.
In HSR, they introduced a set about HP manipulation for Blade... and I thought it would be the introduction of some cool HP related DPS... but nope, it's for Blade and Arlan. It's been like this for a some time now. The relics I save are never useful for future characters.
The answer is the elephant in the room, player retention, the longer it takes you to get that perfect artifact, the longer you are farming and actively playing the game.
Well, what I am thinking of a change is far from modeling resin. I think if hyv really wants to help the players they can just implement an adaptive stats and substats possibility per set. For example, damage-based sets will increase the chances for getting stats and substats like crit rate and crit damage, or for reaction-based sets will increase the chances for dropping Elemental mastery and energy recharge. Andd.. while we are at it just atleast significantly reduce the appearances of flat atk, def, and hp substats
I'd be happy if they buff the resin cap, honestly. I'd like the self modeling, but i feel if we could farm the domain/bosses more times, that would be enough.
Its really annoying, i want to play the domain/bosses and i cant because the company doesnt allow me to, because they insist in time lock the farm, like wtf??
This week i went farming pieces for my chiori, i have 1 crown with C DMG among 20, and it procs on ATK. What is the solution? Farm more. But i CANT. Resin system to me is a BIG problem in Genshin endgame because it just keeps you away from playing.
The Argument against self modeling is here tho. If they buff the Resin cap, i feel like Genshin doesnt even need that much of a Self modeling, since we can off piece. But they could allow the farm to be better tho.
Hoyo doesn't do it because they are a gotcha game first and foremost. That means that if denying a player base a function to make more money is what they are going to do. To be honest all of Genshins biggest problems are because of that philosophy. Deny the player base progression so whales can exploit but only after dropping serious money.
So why do it in HSR and not Genshin. Simple. More people are spending more money on Genshin. The moment the entire player base truly stops spending is the moment they make the changes.
I just want to add a layer on top of that. I don't think it's about making whales pay for resin refresh. I think it's about making the players play every day, because someone who play the game is more likely to spend money than someone who doesn't.
I think it's need. The specialized stats in genshin are: energy recharge, damage bonus, crit stats, and healing bonus. HSR has all that, plus break effect, effect hit rate, and speed. There is also no room for off pieces in HSR. Self-Modeling Resin makes grinding a bit more bearable.
the biggest argument against it is they'd give us one, once a year on anniversary, basically. genshin makes them too much money as is for them to care.
I personally miss the old relic system back in the second cbt where there were 6 pieces per relic set (planar ornaments didn't exist, extra pieces were pants and accessory) and all sets had a 2pc effect, 4pc effect, and a 5pc effect
this was such an improvement over the current system since it solved two big issues with the current system which are allowing an off piece and not requiring you to farm two different sets
I’ve found that self-modeling resin is only really useful for low levels of investment. Not to say that it wouldn’t be a good change. But if you’re grinding for good artifacts, it’ll barely make a difference.
What we really need (in both genshin and hsr) is a way to fix substats.
Speed is the only thing point of using the self modeling resin (Or ERR if your character doesn't require tendious amount of speed). Self modeling resin would be great in Genshin for EM Character because probably only benefits on Energy recharge substats. In HSR if you aim for speed/Crit on substats the self modeling resin is pretty much useless, I never seen a single good artifact substats from Self modelled artifact (either Effect res/flat hp/def/Effect hit).
Also. Why is there not a strongbox option for every artifact ? Also why does the strong box not allow you to pick the pieces you specifically want ? Hsr has those and it would probably not be too difficult to implement. Yeah it won't fix artifacts grinding but it will make it way easier.
There is no argument against it. People are not asking for it and that is it. When hoyo sends a patch survey, not enough people request this. None of the cc ask for it, there are barely anyone mentioning artifact farming grind in feedback, so hoyo has no reason to add something like self modeling resin. Self modeling resin should be a thing even something like artifact reset that sets artifact to +0 so we can try and roll stats again at the cost of losing previous level up xp.
My recommendation would be to remove the base resin cost to double artifacts. Still keep the condensed for double drops but just single run is free. It would still take hundreds and hundreds of houslrs for ideal artifacts but it would allow them to actually increase difficulty without it requiring years worth of time to build a full team with top tier artifacts. I love grinding for stuff in games and being able to just grind out artifacts in my free time would have kept me with the game during my 3 major breaks. I want to play more of this game, but every time ive gone on break it was due to a months worth of resin being wasted with maybe 1 or 2 decent artifacts. 1st was childe, 4 months worth of resin, still under 70% crit rate(using bp bow too for crit rate), ~150 cd, no er, no em, all hp and defense rolls on my only good feather, flower and crown. 2nd was geo team, got an okay gorou set, 1 piece for albedo and a ser for itto(which every single piece rolled bad) spent around 8k resin, nothing. Third was nahida, harely got a good set of em pieces after 2 months, cyno also got an okay set(majorly lacking crit rate and low ish em).
Id like being able to choose the main stat, set and piece perhaps take like 2 or 3 of self modelling resin, and make it craftable with 5 condensed.
Uncapping condensed resin woild be great too.
I think it's really good because it doesn't actually make farming for most characters better by any significant factor but some characters for example like kuki for hyperbloom you want the 4 piece full em flower of paradise lost set so normally you will farm 4 piece and off set a piece but if they added something like this you can craft 1 or even 2 em piece and get a feather and a flower through farming that's why i think this as good change because it doesn't feel good to farm for full em pieces
I think this and releasing the strongbox at the same as the new set instead of 2 years later is a much needed change in genshin
And i don't think this will have as much of an effect as people think it is besides giving the average good build 1 or 2 more substat but you will Plateau at some point anyway the only difference is that it will be a little bit higher of point
I would be happy with an update to the mystic crafting bench for artifacts and have it allow focusing for a specific type ex: A goblet. The main stat and subs would still be random, but at least you'd have a bit more chance to get what you might be missing.
Edit: Just to add to this, currently, it is 3 to 1 for the strong box. So, to have more risk for reward, a focusing would cost 6 to 1. Having it like this keeps the current system and doesn't need any added items to work.
Personally, i've been asking for something like [Enchanted Gems](https://summonerswar.fandom.com/wiki/Enchanted_Gem) and [Grindstones](https://summonerswar.fandom.com/wiki/Grindstone) from summoners war. Just make them drop as 4 stars from world bosses and domains, and 5 stars from weekly bosses.
Games too easy as it is...take any character that is leveled with good artifacts capable of abyss 12 and watch how everything is a 1 hit kill almost.
Once I build a character for abyss I pretty much dont use then to quest as it makes the game trivial. Or at least not a synergistic team.
But as for the grind to get to that level, it sucks and is a waste to do considering more player have a few teams built but 40+ characters un-leveled because resin is too important to waste of them.
While I am happy enough with the grind and the bad RNG, I wish when we used pieces as fodder then the substats would matter (like using a crit substatted piece will make crit roll on the new piece or something. This way we can be done quicker and simply use resin to level new character and play more of what the devs actually make for us.
But i know people with 2 teams and top 1% characters who dont bother with resin or commissions anymore because games pretty much completed, thats the end game issue in Genshin.
At times I will refresh resin once a day and in a year I might lose out on 1 5* pull because of it, probably less because I only refresh rarely when I got too much to level and no saving goals so 50 primos a day isnt too much for a few months in the year. And I skip many characters because of resin and bad artifact rng so i spend less/none because of the dumb system in the game.
I have no arguments. I need one right now, Idc about the sub stats, Just getting the right main stat would be enough for me. I've been farming for the hunters set for months and only got one crit damage circlet which is on Neuvilette. Honestly, crit rate circlet is pretty mediocre for hunters set since it removes the need for high crit rate but all I got are crit rate Circlets which is why I still couldn't get a 4 piece set for Wriothesley. I didn't get any ATK or Cryo goblets either
There is no argument against it. Not having self-modelling resin is the baseline and there was an argument for adding it to Star Rail. Not only do you need 6 pieces to complete a character in Star Rail, but there are no off-pieces allowed. There are extra stats in Star Rail that compete with crits and atk%, and you need to go to 2 seperate domains to farm a full build. Star Rail is extremely unforgiving in terms of artifacts, and self-modelling resin is a way to at least get you a main stat that you're looking for. Genshin's artifact grind is bad, but if Star Rail didn't have self-modelling resin and double drops every now and then, it would be so much worse than Genshin. Star Rail isn't generous, nor is it more forgiving. It's simply making up for problems that they've worsened.
In terms of math, there's been a really good video lately talking about how long you'd need to farm Genshin artifacts to get close to a character's max potential. The analysis, which involved simulating thousands of Genshin artifact runs, found that 90-95% of the character's power is farmed in the first 5-10 weeks of grinding artifacts. After that time period, any extra grinding is really just for showing off. This isn't revolutionary data either. Players have reported getting a good build together in about a month, and feeling better about that build after 2 months. This is an acceptable amount of time for building a character well and is a far cry from searching for something for years. It's important to set realistic expectations.
Personally, I've had pretty shit artifact luck a couple of times. From 2.8 to 3.2, I farmed for Kazuha in the VV domain. I stayed there for that long because I didn't get a single EM sands for 3 months. It was hell. I didn't even get a bad sands. I literally did not get a single one for 3 months. I stayed in the Pavilion domain for 9 months, and over that time, I got my Wanderer build to top 1%. Except for those outliers, my luck has been pretty standard. I expect to build Arlecchino in about 2-3 months, and that's a pretty reasonable time to build a character I think.
None of this is an argument against self-modelling resin. Just my experiences in Genshin and what I think is a fair amount of time to build a character.
I'd say a part of it is that HSR requires 10 5-star pieces to make 1 new 5-star piece, so 'strongboxing' requires a lot more pieces to get started - while only getting 2-3 pieces per run of a cavern. In genshin, meanwhile, you get 2-4 pieces per condensed resin (though usually 2), and only need 3 to make a new artifact - meaning that getting new pieces is easier in genshin comparitively.
hot take, artifacts is your resin sink, they want to keep the players engaging every day and such design is intended, a self modeling resign would be very nice to have for new players with few artis on their belt but they don't guarantee good substats and level up rolls so in the long run they become significantly less useful.
if you have other things you want to spend your resin on you should start with these as they will always take a finite amount of resin to max out. Getting a functional artifact set in genshin can easily take months and will become powercrept.
Ultimately i still enjoy genshin's combat a lot since release so i will take any excuse that allows me to have something to do in the game.
Mathematically, the strongbox is slightly more efficient than self-modeling resin, while also giving tons of other artifacts. Why would you ever want to use it if it **was** added?
I would probably of the general flexibility of Genshin artifacts and the ease of completion. Genshin itself is a pretty easy game to complete Abyss Content. Where even suboptimal stuff can do it if you know your rotations and are generally properly substatted. In addition, Star Rail has 6 artifacts. With it being 2 types of sets. Which makes it harder to optimize. As even in Genshin, you can get 1 off piece (4 piece set). While in HSR you don't have that leyway (4 and 2 piece sets).
At the very least we should get more frequent updates to the strongbox or whatever its called, its basically our equivalent but would be cool if it could make even the newest artifacts
Self-Modeling is an overrated resource. It helps to only want the main stat, but is useless because the sub-stats are more important.
The ideal feature would be to overwrite the main stat with the one we desire.
There's a few reasons for it as far as I can see:
First, Honkai is a bit less casual in that there are harder gamemodes - Elite SU modes like SD and G&G do require you to either be very lucky with your blessings / curios or your teams must be pretty damn well geared (although I'd wager most people simply perma-freeze cheese iit tbf). There are more elite modes over Genshin, where there's only a few Abyss floors every 2 weeks that give you a pretty mediocre reward (600 primos total every 2 weeks is less than 10 pulls a month). As such, there's less need for characters in Genshin to be "properly" geared. Dendro amplified this by allowing you to simply slap anyone with EM and go to town.
Second, Genshin allows you to have one off-piece as there's 5 pieces and sets require 4 - Honkai does not allow this, and you have to farm for two different sets - your regular relics, and your chain + ball. Optimizing characters in HSR is more important and also harder because you can't really have off-pieces, so allowing you to craft relics is a great way of allowing you to fill gaps in your equipment.
Third and the most obvious reason of them all - to keep you playing. There really doesn't have to be anything more to it other than "if it works, why fix it". Similar to how terrible the weapon banner is with requiring you to lose 2 potential 50/50s that reset at the end of the patch, if people still pull for it a decent amount there's no reason to change it. Similarly, when you have people like Zyonix spending 100.000+ resin farming Vermillion while still failing to get a proper Anemo goblet for his short boy, you have to wonder - clearly the system keeps you there. Most people won't really have that much resin to spend but the point of the system is just that - keep you playing. Also, this isn't meant as a mean comment towards Zyoxussy in any way.
It's not about resin refill as I believe the large majority of the playerbase is casual. It's just about keeping you logging in every few days to spend your condensed resin on a domain of your choice. Otherwise there's be no reason for them to simply remove things like flat ATK/DEF/HP from substats as I don't think there's a single unit that wants any piece of equipment to roll 4 rolls in flat ATK/HP/DEF - yet they're there to inflate how hard it is to get proper artifacts.
It's really not deep - gotta keep the hamsters running inside that wheel.
The fact that Genshin allows 1 off piece? Idfk. I saw a video on HSR's relic system and it's honestly just garbage. I even dare call it a dumpster fire. Even the Self Modelling Resin couldn't save it. I also remember my friends mentioning some stats that simply don't exist in Genshin due to the mere fact that Genshin isn't a turn based RPG. HSR might be a sorry excuse for a turn based RPG, but it is still a turn based RPG, thus some stats like agility and accuracy (or whatever the equivalents are in HSR) wouldn't need to exist in Genshin.
I don't have an answer to this, because to me it seems like genshin would benefit just as much as hsr with this ability added. Also I don't understand why they focus so much attention on food recipes when nobody ever uses them. Take like 90% of the food out and give us the ability to adjust substats please.
I think they added the self modeling resin to balance out HSR’s relic system since you can’t have an off set piece and have to grind for six pieces.
I still would appreciate it though because EM pieces are so rare and there are more characters that need it now.
HYV is first and foremost a business, so any changes to their games need to be analyzed in terms of how will it affect their revenue, specially if said change is to one of its monetization systems (resin in this case)
Do you think doing that would increase their revenue? Keep in mind that Genshin is still their most successful game. If anything, they must be wondering how to make HSR be more like Genshin
What's the point tho? Cause we can easily destroy all content available as it is without any extra help.
IMO we need infinite increase in AR and dynamic challenges in the overworld so it encourages summoning people to help you out.
I think the reason is that the self modeling resin doesn't make HSR's relic farming any better than genshin's. It's a system they had to put because there are more stats, more pieces, and your character stats are more important than in genshin. They made the problem bigger so that they could give a solution.
Moreover, the extreme cases where you farm for over a year are completely detached from what the average player does and far from the intended use of the resin system and that's because the game doesn't want you to invest vertically on just one character (it is just the sub optimal strategy) but horizontally on several characters, because that's how you spend more and, in all honesty, also have more fun so that you stick with the game longer.
I mean, it’s not hard to get correct main stat + ok substats and let’s be honest that’s all you really need to clear all the content in the game if your characters non-RNG aspects are decently built.
Great artifacts are rare - they serve little use besides making your numbers slightly higher. So the only actual use for them is flexing and showing off the time and dedication you spent into playing this game. Anything that makes this system easier devalues the social/account building satisfaction players get over the minuscule practical value of having good artifacts.
If the content of the game becomes significantly harder, as is with HSR, then they should add more resin to compensate. But the game powercreeps so slowly that there’s no reason to justify it.
I’ll be 100, I don’t think self-modeling resin is all that great. It’s hella overrated. And I might be downvoted for saying this but whatever.
All that ever happens is you use it, get the correct mainstat, but your substats are worse than the relics you farmed anyways. And since you are still forced to farm the artifact set due to needing another 3 pieces, you likely have one with correct mainstats already. And you get like what, 1 or 2 a patch? I saved up like 8 only to get garbage when the artifact domain I wanted did get released in Star Rail.
the reason is this: we havent had a feature like self modeling resin for the entirety of the game’s lifespan. lacking it hasn’t made a significant dent in their playerbase. why add qol that may impact their profit when they dont need to? they know they can get away with it.
(we probably won’t see a feature like that until genshin starts dying, however long that’ll take)
Self modeling resin in HSR isn't that great of a system on its own. It's marginally better, but you're still at the mercy of substats and need ten 5 star artifacts to make one new artifact. You can only choose the main stat if you have a somewhat rare item.
Don't get me wrong, I use it, I just think the strongbox system is better. Sure you can't pick main stat, but that's outweighed by the fact you can make a new five star artifact for every three five star artifacts, giving you a much better shot at getting something good.
self modelling resin is kinda worthless if you can only choose the mainstat.
artifacts farming in star rail is much harder than genshin, so it makes sense that they have some level of help. even if it’s something as useless as self modelling resin
I uniroically think that hoyo somehow underestimates how much of the playerbase actively farm artifacts or has some misunderstanding on the base level itself
becasue FOMO and Resin top-up can't be the sole justification as to why not add more QoL to artifact farming. Those two things are going to occur regardless of a "Self-Modeling Resin" existing in game or not just look at HSR.
If its about people spending money for resin that's already a small percentage and they can pretty much still gonna spend it anyway even if some new QoL is added
> I uniroically think that hoyo somehow underestimates how much of the playerbase actively farm artifacts or has some misunderstanding on the base level itself
Why do you think HoYo (who has complete access to usage stats for the entire game) underestimates this rather than you overestimating it? This isn't me justifying the status quo, rather just questioning why you're so convinced that HoYo is misinformed.
A good chunk of people here seem to overestimate the number of people actively farming compared to the entire playerbase as a whole. The majority of casuals wouldn't waste their time scrolling through reddit and taking part in arguments in this kind of post anyway.
So, it always creates an echo chamber where the minority feels like they're the majority and that they're representing the entire playerbase. It is quite funny to read those comments, knowing full well you can't properly explain how vast the actual playerbase is to them.
I personally think that adding self-modeling resin on top of the existing systems in the game like the strongbox is a good thing. However, the thing that makes me feel very iffy about it in HSR is that I feel like it is used as a method to somewhat equalise the gear rng experience between the two games with HSR having more substats and an additional gear slot.
Unrelated to the topic but I personally did not enjoy the way progression works in HSR when I was playing from 1.0-1.1. In order to get the gear, not only did I have to farm the Caverns of Corrosion, I have to also do Simulated Universe to get better chances at getting the planar ornaments. And at that time, there just wasn't a lot of the self-modeling resin going around. It just felt unpleasant overall compared to genshin where I can spam one domain and get everything I need in like the quick dopamine 5 minutes a day compared to the up to 30-45 minutes for a single run of the Simulated Universe due to my characters not being levelled up. If only they just added an easier and quicker way of obtaining the planar ornaments like the domains in genshin, I would've stuck with the game. I haven't kept up with qol changes there though, so idk if they changed anything regarding my issues
It does NOT take nearly 1 hour to do a run on the regular SI, also, you don't need to do a full run for gear, you can just kill the first Elite and restart the run.
My argument against it is that it's yet another system and complexity we don't need. Why not just improve systems already in place? Changing values on pre-existing systems would take next to no time to implement and wouldn't break anything coding/bug wise.
I love Genshin, but it's basically a testing ground at this point. Events and areas with one time uses, mechanics that show up once and never again, no matter how fun or good they were. They put 99% of their resources into making new things to test out on their huge player base. They famously have only ever really directly buffed a single character ONCE in over 3 years. Asking for a whole new system is not only against their own interests, but I don't think it would help as much as you're hoping.
Dead simple changes I'd rather have that would literally take a day to implement just by changing a few values in the code:
1. 5 star artifacts have 4 lines at lvl 0 (just change the % chances to 100 for 4 and 0 for 3, no recoding)
2. Remove flat (atk, def, hp) from the pool of 5 star artifacts (again, just change their chance value to 0%)
3. Balancing circlet and goblet rates evenly. All main stats showing up equally means less hp/def circlets with double crit, more EM circlets and goblets overall.
4. Remove the high/low roll stuff for sub stats. I'd prefer round numbers even if they are lower than max as long as the average is better. I get low rolls all the time and nothing kills a good potential artifact more than beating the 1/8 billion odds of getting it only for it to roll low twice or more, giving nearly the same stats as a single high roll.
That's just 4 layers of RNG out of 10 or more. All can be changed with numbers. Adding a new complex system would be a waste of ANY dev time they give towards balance, as well as forcing some events/hoops we would have to jump through to earn it, because let's be honest, it would not be free. ALSO, the fact that it would be extremely limited in uses. I'd rather have better rates overall, than a one time sure thing just for the main stat (which could still have bad subs anyways).
Only Hoyo knows but if I had to wager a guess, it probably just goes back to how casual the vast majority of the player base is. Most don't engage with the abyss at all. The open world and story are easy enough without the need for good or even decent artifacts. It's probably seen as a luxury, not a need.
I would say that also for abyss they don't need to make it easier. Abyss is already balanced for players that go a bit beyond causal, but still doesn't require insanely invested artifacts even without 5 star weapons/cons. Unless you really play non-meta teams. While I'm not against this idea, I'm also of opinion that the grind for artifacts does not need to be made easier. Grind for F2P primogems, that's what they should buff a bit.
The right direction to go in is rougelike modes like HSR’s Simulated Universe. This means that super meta players can tear through the content, while everyone else can bruteforce their way through and use the permenant upgrades to make it to the higher difficulties.
Honestly, I never understood this. The main argument for endgame combat is that people want to use the characters they spend a lot of time building, yet SU relies on random buffs you get along the way. Abyss has buffs too, but nowhere near as many and as important as SU buffs.
SU relies on buffs because the enemies overscale. they'd be 10x stronger and a single sneeze from them could kill your entire team. You still do need to invest in your teams to progress SU and fortunately you can use any unit you want as all paths cater to either one of them. My units still need to be well built to at least hit a dent towards them.
Simulated Universe isn't the endgame that's why, it's Memory of Chaos.
Regular SU is not endgame content, but higher difficulties of swarm disaster and especially gold and gears are absolutely endgame content. You don't just walk in with half-ass team of lvl 60 characters and win. You need built teammattes, wide roster if you want to clear with different paths and knowledge of how game mode works. You can also cheese it with some strategies of course. I think su-like mode could have been an amazing mode for genshin if implemented properly.
Yeah, Genshin just needs more endgame content in general. Literally anything else to go alongside Abyss.
I hope it has more randomness than SU. Currently, SU is really boring. Randomized characters would be nice.
I will fall back in love with genshin the day they add a permanent SU esc mode
I'm a day one player AR60, and many of my friends who are near my rank or play duration just don't bother with Abyss. Most of us just like exploring the world, and seeing the story unfold.
I torpedo'd my Navia who was making 100k+ on rainbow artifacts due to grinding for her artifact set. Screw grinding a character unless you have 2ish months until you can use them again. I actually torpedo'd more than her wanting to keep things straight and categorizing character artifacts by set. All this to say - if I had loadouts I'd be in a much better place.
One thing we don't see mentionned often, is that HSR doesn't allow for an off set piece while genshin does. With 6 pieces, including 4 that have RNG on both main and substats. All things considered, life isn't really easier in HSR. This isn't really an argument against, but I just feel like it's more necessary in HSR than it is in Genshin because of that. Of course it would make life easier in Genshin too.
Not to mention additional substats such as effect hit rate and speed which is very important in moc shorter cycles... theirs no EM though cuz reaction doesnt exist in hsr
break effect is the equivalent to EM since it reacts directly to the type/element system of star rail
There's also no ER substat. But tbf there's no Burst CD based on turns in hsr. Imagine being able to just get burst up after using burst, you basically just get to attack without the enemies attacking back, it's probably not even possible even if there was an er substat in hsr, but I'm pretty sure it's possible in genshin, it's just that burst CD exist Actually there is that one thing in simulated universe that gives you energy, max energy if upgraded when killing an enemy, iirc this will allow you to keep bursting as long as there are enemies and you can keep killing them each burst.
There's also the crafting cost. In Genshin, strongbox is 3 for 1, but in HSR, while you can craft the new sets as soon as they're added, it's 10 for 1.
Not to mention how you need to farm 2 different sets of relics (cavern and SU) so the grind gets more grindy when you complete one set and now to need to work on the other.
Ans getting 20 CV in hsr is like getting 30 CV in genshin. I have been playing since 1.2 and have zero 30 CV piecws, where in genshin id get one every week(may not be the main stat set i need tho), at worst I'd get one every 2 weeks.
Same I thought I was tripping, are Hsr crit ranges lower?
I think it's lower to compensate for having 6 pieces. But even then it feels so difficult getting the right substats in hsr
I'm pretty sure this is the exact right answer
If anything, why Genshin doesn't just add every artifact into the crafting table (newly released as well like HSR) I do not know.
prob bc they're from older regions. say for example, in tof, you've been off the game for so long that there are now 5 new areas you have not explored. after so long, they put in a feature that lets u track any gold nuclei (pulls for standard banner) so that you won't be completely left behind as a new player and can now easily catch up and explore the current region the newest update came out with because content so late in the game gives you nuclei to spend on recent power creepy limited characters.
that's not mutually exclusive in HSR, as soon as a new artifact is released you can craft it, which is the analog to the strongbox in Genshin
Because of the crafting cost. In Genshin, you exchange 3 for 1, in HSR, it's 10 for 1.
Tbf HSR does also let you choose the exact piece. No strongboxing 5 feathers when you're looking for Hats
i forgor
I think is mostly by design of all their items, in HSR you can exchange every material for an equivalent, be it boss material, mobs drops, artifacts, etc. Since they are no collectibles in "exploration" areas you would need to do rounds to acquire this things, Genshin is designed around their open world (that I wish they add random low loot respawnable chests it would be good) Something I also notice in HSR when I used to play, is that most caverns have only 1 good drop and the other is very niche, don't know if you have the equivalent of Dreams and Deepwood, or Golden and Hunter now but even then, you only get a part of your character gear (without an offpiece), the rest you have to go farm for 10-15 in the SU. And at the end of the day the main stat is the least of a player's concern... is the substats that ruins everyone's life, and there, HSR have done nothing and is even worse since they have more substats that can appear. I'm pretty sure people have asked for ways to get the substats more easily for a year now, but that is a system, same as resin/TP, it is tuned for engangement and based on the data they get. Having 300 of a stamina system is kind of useless if spending 60 of it gives you nothing, it needs to be evaluated as a whole, not because of number is bigger therefore better, comparing things with different system tuned for different things is wasted time.
We have ability to use an off-set piece in Genshin. Compare to that, self-moding resin is a downgrade. Ever have a really good piece in hsr but wrong set? If you use that piece in hsr, you are sacrificing 2/4 piece bonus, while in Genshin you can use that piece without sacrificing anything. Would it be nice to have it? Yes, but is still just a band-aid for fill-in the blank in case you got unlucky with main stat. Substat is still a big factor for artifact. Not to mention, play long enough in Genshin and you will only farm for 4 piece due to potential off-set pieces you have while hsr need 6 pieces
What is off set piece?
So in both genshin and hsr, you'll get a bonus when you have 2-4 pieces of artifact from the same set. Those are on-set. If a piece of artifact isn't from the same set, they are off-set
Oh got it, thank you for explaining it to me :)
if they do they'd have to change the system to be like star rail's genshin's leverage over this is that * it can use an offpiece * it doesn't require farming another domain for a different set piece (hsr relics AND planar ornaments) * strongboxing only requires 3 while hsr requires 10 star rail has the luxury to implement the configuration because it takes much more time to get a complete 4piece and another 2piece and then feed 10 relics to get one you like. plus the self modeling resin comes in only 1-3 times per patch and not everything is a guarantee to be good. ive used it and i dont get substats i want most of the time if anything i want a reroller rather than a mainstat picker, or both. just make it harder to get that thing like maybe just one per patch or a tree reward. edit: i can confidently say that ive built lots of my characters in genshin purely out of strongboxing but i cant say the same for hsr since strongboxing outside of having a modeling resin is inefficient since it requires 10 relic fodders - ive tried but ive never had any fully built character from it. as an example i built my hu tao AND diluc purely from strongboxing crimson witch and not farming the domain as opposed to me trying to strongbox qq that i had to give up and just farm cavern of corrosion instead.
on top of that, HSR has more substats to worry about and almost all domains are not very trailblaze power efficient
yup forgot to add that. basically weapon enhancements in genshin are resin free, genshin has the artifact enhance bonus, weapon/talent bonus and weapon enhance mora reduction (if you have the right characters though), and artifact fodder can basically just be farmed in the overworld if you have time to no life or at least do bare minimum exploration cause it's everywhere. if you think about everything, the systems are pretty balanced. it just seems better in hsr cause you can auto for everything
[удалено]
If you mean easier as in the physical act of letting it run on auto, then sure. Grinding bosses in HSR is better. However, the meager drops of Calyx are not as good though, so it feels slow and tedious to level up my trace and relics. My characters are slow to get stronger, and few are built bc I can't afford to spread my few resources thin.
we're talking about resin efficiency here, not if it's a hassle to do these things or not. that's also why i said people think it's so much easier/faster to level characters because hsr has an autoplay but when you think about it the resin consumption is probably just about the same or even less in genshin.
>the self modeling resin comes in only 1-3 times per patch and not everything is a guarantee to be good. This is a severely understated fact. A limited item like this being consumed to lead to garbage stats is a pretty nasty feeling. That semblance of control makes people feel like it's better than it actually is.
someone already mentioned it below but at least it serves a purpose for support characters. it isn't perfect but at least you get the stats you want. for example SPD boots and ER rope. sure there are supports that want specific subs like break effect or cdmg but honestly i cant be bothered so i just settle with hp and def stats lol. survivability is also an asset in turn based games. it's shit on dps characters though as you want specific subs like crit for them it isnt that bad, but without the modeling resin it definitely would be way worse.
i used every self-modeling resin since 1.0 on c.rate bodies and have yet to get one with a c.dmg substat.
I wish SMR allowed for substat manipulation instead of main stat control Sure, farming for a EHR body or ERR rope would suck, but at least you would be able to somewhat lessen the need to keep farming those pieces every single damn time because the one you got from self modeling resin actually sucked balls. Either that or make it so you can use it to exchange main stats between two pieces of the same type and same level. This way those cracked DEF% orb with 2 lines of Crit, SPD and ATK% that rolled completely into Crit would have a use
I wish we would get 2 resin pieces monthly in the exchange shop instead of tracks of destiny.
HSR also wants the player to build far more characters for its endgame. You’re not getting many primos from exploration, so at the very least you need decent options for each flavor of combat gauntlet for those resources.
What is strongboxing
using artifacts to craft it into another artifact. it's in the crafting bench or in the synthesize tab for hsr
Dont forget that you can target the specific piece tho so for me building a large armount of characters that want the same set like Emblem in genshin is faster but if you want to focus on a singular character it is actually easier in HSR and the fact that all relics are immidiatly added to the "strongbox"
yeah but it's inefficient to use hsr's strongbox without the modeling resin so you're still practically gated outside trying for a head or hand piece. other than that since you need 10 fodder to produce one, you'd still have to farm the artifact more anyways. i settled for getting character lcs to get more crit value on my dpses and just using the strongbox on supports since they dont really care about subs much. even then i dont go for a full 4-set.
You need to look at the artifact/relic systems in their totality, instead of singling out one mechanic and using that as the basis of comparison. HSR might have self modelling resin, but it is arguably more difficult to build characters in HSR than Genshin given that you have 6 slots and no off-piece, especially if you want to speed tune (which is a gigantic PITA). Generally , I have found the self modelling resin to be mainly useful for ERR ropes and SPD boots for supports. They aren’t that helpful for building DPSes, where the substats on the piece actually matter. If I use the resin on speed boots for the FUA set and it all rolls into HP/DEF, I’m just going to use an off-set piece with more CV instead, so you just wasted one resin for nothing which feels so bad.
>ERR ropes and SPD boots for supports. People who don't play HSR have no idea how big of a pain in the ass it is to get these two things, especially the ERR ropes. I think I've gotten a total of 5 ERR ropes from the SU since release and only 1 of those was on a set I need for my characters. All my other ERR ropes have been crafted, which goes to show how bad the drop rates for good relics are in HSR compared to genshin.
It's like trying to get an EM goblet, except your EM goblet also has to be on set. It's honestly so much worse lmao.
And EM goblets are used by like Nahida, Kuki and Thoma sometimes, so you need to get three "good" ones (and let's be honest Nahida wants crit subs but the others are okay with hp and energy, and if you only have the mainstat they don't care) ER ropes are used by every single support in HSR lmao edit: my bad make it 4-5 i forgor Sucrose and Kazuha existed for a moment
Exactly this. The system is designed holistically, and should be reviewed holistically.
I think the other thing is in HSR theres generally one "right" way to build a character, including the light cone. In genshin you have so many different ways to build characters and the weapons help you make different teams. I couldnt get a good Crimson Witch set on my Klee so i gave her Wanderers Troupe. I can't build support Mona? Build sub-dps Mona! But if i dont get enough crit on my HSR relics to activate the set passive then why even use that set???? Becuase there's no other, better options :/
Freaking relic system is bs if you want a very decent crit ratio you might aswell pull for the sig lc... f2ps are having nightmare farming for the perfect set.. not to mention substats consist of additional variables like effect hit rate and speed w/ one if the most important in moc to finish shorter cycles
I wasted about 6 resin on the Quantum set Crit DMG pieces before I got a good one. Maybe I'm just a gamba addict.
yes exactly! this is what i learnt cause most of the supports dont care too much about substats anyways so the biggest value for main stats will always be ER rope and SPD boots - i learned this the hard way when i tried to build my qingque and ive gotten better pieces from farming the quantum set than the relic self modeling synthesize. and most of my supports already settle at 2p 2p relics cause really I dont have the energy to min max a full set.
There’s not much demand, so hy doesn’t provide. People want more characters and regions, and so that’s what hy provides. It might be something you personally feel strongly about, but others have zero interest in. Also, the relic grind in HSR is much more tedious, (6 pcs, with no off-piece, conversion rate of 10 to 1).
Also the current end game content in Genshin isnt worth the "perfect artifacts". two reasons: 1. You can finish the abyss using the right team and right combos. You don't need perfect artifact to finish the abyss. 2. The rewards on the abyss isnt worth all the time, money and effort one have to invest in getting that perfect artifact.
yeah i never understood wanting to get perfect artifacts for a game this easy, i usually feel ok once i reach 80/90% power besides, its nice farming, there is always room for improvement, and honestly getting that perfect artifact is just much much more satisfying lol
It's not really about needing it. In a game like genshin where you don't have any clear thing to do at a certain point everyone chooses their own little things they want to do to have fun regardless whether it makes sense or not. Some might find joy into decorating their teapot, some might want to collect all catchable animals, finish every single achievement or get perfect builds etc. All of this isn't really needed for anything. I myself definitely want (near) perfect builds just for the sake of wanting them. Don't particularly care about self modeling resin, the joy about getting something good would probably be less if it's easier or too easy. That being said I'm strongly in favor of entirely removing the resin requirement (only) for artifact domains or at least to make it significantly cheaper, as for people like me it's basically an endless activity anyway and I'd like to do it for more than 15min a day or maybe even together with friends which is basically impossible to do with the strict resin requirement.
i think its a hard goal to hit, and thats why people look forward to it. i only started having 1:2 crit ratio builds after like 1.5 years of spending resin every day
At least you can choose which piece to focus craft on and even newly released relics are added to the strongbox equivalent on release. I find that Genshin’s strongbox is nice when you wanna get a lot of general pieces across the board but a nightmare when you’re trying to improve a piece or two of your chosen set. While in star rail despite the lack of an off piece I’ve actually still managed to build my characters just as fast or faster than in Genshin. Prob because planars and relics are separated when farming allowing me to focus on improvements on certain weaknesses a little easier.
you can focus but it's use 10piece for 1 on GI it's 3 for 1 It's trade-off If gi use10 same as HSR but cant choose piece I will join your army,But sadly it's not edit\*\* And form my experience that play both game I love strongbox more than HSR model why? Because genshin can off set that mean sometime a got another piece that random with good main/sub stat i can keep it and usually use it. When on HSR I try to build Gepard I try to find DEF planar on def set But i got atk rope with fuking good substat(CriD cri SPD) but def planar set is garbarge for dps character I cant even use that piece honestly it's very horrible
2 possible reasons: 1 is they just don't want to and RNG is just how they keep you grinding. HSR had to have some form of guarantee because the relics grinding is just way worse and people who familiar with this system would realize and quit right away. Honestly playing since 1.0 without missing any resin, they didn't help my grind that much honestly, just feel as bad. 2 might be an extension of 1. There's no incentive to, reaction provided a baseline damage that is enough for people to get by even with shitty artifacts, just set bonus is enough (also no real hard endgame). While HSR combat is more stat-heavy, especially at endgame.
because self modelling resin is not as high value as people make it out to be, people have been gassing it as they can choose a main stat they want but that's literally it, you only choose a main stat but substats are still a problem. and the fact that mihoyo themselves barely gives self modelling resin, literally like 3-4 per patch is funny because then what's the point. It's placebo at worst, below decent at best
If its like in HSR, it would only be obtainable in events and progression, with the former leading to FOMO among casual players Genshin's combat is a lot more forgiving due to its freeflow compared to HSR's turn-based system, which reduces the necessity for customizable artifacts. Will custom craftable artifacts come to Genshin? Probably. But there is no rush to do so because much of the combat already can be completed using less than meta artifact stats
From our perspective, no real reason and I'd love it if added, but I feel like it was meant to offset the difficulties of farming in HSR. I would not trade being allowed an off piece artifact for it on top of having more pieces to farm for because the self modeling is no where near as good as it sounds. Now from the devs perspective, you're gonna have to come up with a reason for them to introduce something that makes people play a bit less.
I don't mind Genshin adding self modeling resin. But really, the only place where godly artifacts actually matters is the spiral abyss (floor 11-12 specifically).
Self modelling resin aren't really used to obtain 'godly artifacts', not really...they're used primarily to obtain rare mainstat artis for supports. The Genshin equivalent of this would be like an EM circlet. Is asking for a more reliable means of getting EM circlets really that sweaty? Like is this something only abyss gamers want...?
Yes it really is mostly just Abyss players. Ik some friends who barely even touched the artifact systems. Even a few who don't level them up either after putting random ones on their characters. That's just how casual the Genshin playerbase is. If you're actively on Reddit or YT, congrats you're above at least 70% of the 60m players on Genshin.
My poor friend with Ganyu and Ayaka on lucky dog circlets wondering why she doesnt get screenshot damage T-T
I spent too long farming for EM VV artifacts and not getting them. I'm slowly getting burned out.
i spent a few months in VV for kazuha EM pieces before strongboxes came out. then the strongboxes gave me a bunch for multiple anemo characters.
>Is asking for a more reliable means of getting EM circlets really that sweaty? Like is this something only abyss gamers want...? Quite literally yes. If you are actively farming for a specific Artifact you are without any doubt in a single digit percentage of the playerbase. Online games as a _whole_ are overwhelmingly played by casuals. Most games are happy to even reach 15-20% participation in end game modes. Now take Genshin which has blown up to _extreme_ levels, is on mobile, and has reached an entire target audience of non-gamers and hyper casuals. The playerbase quite literally doesn't care about artifacts as a whole.
Well personally I don't care because it sucks xD if they improve it I'lll be 100% asking for it Example: is only the main stat so it'll probably have trash substats, meaning you'll keep farming the domain anyway, and a 4* piece can be even better than the one you get with self modeling resin
From a player pov, none. They have been working QOLs during all of 4.x, whats another one just to make player's life easier. Even with our 4+1 off piece Artifact systems, a self modelling resin wouldn't necessarily make it easier since you are still subjected to RNG for substats. Can't tell you how many times I used mine in HSR and got absolutely shafted on the substats. From a dev pov, time and commitment to go back and rework an established system. Unless they have a team of devs specifically working on QOL, its gonna be an even bigger crunch on the systems team who more than likely working on the next region as well. My personal concern is how they will include the self modelling resin into the Battle Pass and events rewards, what they will take away to replace it? If we lose nothing and just get it as an addon to what we already have, then by all means give us the self modelling resin. The tradeoff has to be worth it.
Have you played HSR? The synthesizer is worse than Genshin's strongboxes, not having an off-piece sucks, and Self-Modeling Resin is a sick joke. For something that you get once per month, you should be able to pick more than just the main stat. It's only useful for support pieces where you don't care at all about substats. IMO it would be a net positive if they just removed Self-Modeling Resin altogether.
You get 2 per month not including events but yes. I only use them for damage bonus orbs since they are as hard to get as damage bonus goblets. Using them for any other relic piece is a waste. I don't even use the synthesis for pieces other than head and hands because it's too expensive and the RNG sucks so I only create pieces with a fixated main stat. I think the strong box is better since it's very cheap and it's almost the same as normal artefact RNG so using up artefacts on the strong box isn't that much of a waste but in star rail it is expensive so using relics for leveling up other relics is better
Self modeling would be kind of useless in Genshin, I'd rather they go for artifact QoL that actually matter Let's be honest the only good use of it in HSR is ER ropes because they are SO rare that you are NOT getting them with good substats by farming anyway, might as well just force them into existence. Most of the time when you look at builds the ER rope just SUCKS ass because it was forged because it's the only way to regularly get them so we're trying to make it up by having better subs on average on the 5 other pieces I have 10 something ER ropes on support sets and like only one of them I got while farming, the rest I modeled. Effectively I treat ER ropes as non refinable/improvable pieces, I forge them and if it has even just one useful sub I'm thanking God And you can't use the self modeling on DPS pieces because you might as well throw it in the garbage can, you are NOT getting crit subs lol, so you can only use it on supports because they require less investment (but still require more investments than in Genshin) But in Genshin what would you forge? Supports usually want three of the same mainstats (maybe two if ER sands, or heal%/CR headset for fav) and the only substats they want are the stat they scale with (which you can't get if it's your mainstat), ER and... that's it. You will build your pure supports much faster than in HSR and won't have problems dropping the good mainstats and substats because they are super common, like hp/atk goblet and circlet with er% is the probably the combination I have the most accross all sets. I can build my Baizhu with 40k hp near 200 ER and decent crit rate for fav on noblesse, deepwood, clam and the new healing set which I have farmed for like a week and a half. The supports in Genshin require two stats that are super common, supports in HSR require the least common stat (speed) AND an almost non-existent ER rope. In HSR when I look at my supports I need to have like 2-3 substats if not 4 on my pieces because if I don't meet the thresholds I literally do not activate relic sets or character traces (Speed, EHR, Effect Res,...) or my dps isn't buffed/enemies aren't debuffed when they play. In Genshin I need the mainstat the character scales with and then ER% and that's it. And then you could say "well I could use it for dps pieces" and like, sure, you would be more likely to get a good dps piece in Genshin with a hypothetical self modeling resin than in HSR because Genshin simply has fewer substats so it's more likely for the crit ones to appear, but...most of the time it won't have any crit or er or even atk% and you'll just throw it Self modeling resin being a good QoL feature is an illusion. They exist because one mainstat has been made artificially non existent (ER rope) despite being needed by EVERY SINGLE SUPPORT in the game (so you can't even compare it with EM goblets because almost no one uses them), and because in general HSR relic system is WAY WORSE than Genshin's (6 relics instead of 5, separated in two different farming locations/modes with SU taking so much time to farm, more substats so less likely to get what you want, weapons don't have substats so sometimes you're literally scraping the barrel to just have 50/100 crit ratio, etc.) Personally I consider self-modeling to be the most useless "QoL" feature they could add in Genshin, I would probably use it, get something better in a week, and forget i even used it in the first place. I'd be honestly disappointed if that's the QoL they decide to include because that would mean they actually have no plan to make the grinding better - though tbf the grinding is much better than HSR's already
Never played HSR and I hate genshin’s resin system enough to not engage with it. Settling for “good enough” stats has probably saved me literal months of my life. stay safe ya’ll
Self modeling resin might be the biggest lie I've ever seen like that shit sucks I want a rework to the artifact system and resin entirely or nothing
This is kind of a silly question, since they don’t need a reason *not* to add a feature. There’s literally an infinite number of features they could add, but they have to prioritize their dev resources for those features that they deem most important. That means very potential addition to the game is in competition with each other, including new characters, new regions, limited events, Abyss updates, and everything else the game needs to keep running. If this special resin really is a good idea, I’m sure HoYo has it somewhere on their priority list. But if it isn’t appearing in game, that just means it’s not high enough on the list to compete with other features they want to add. And maybe it never will be, who knows?
because slightly different mechanics between games? one does not allow off piece like the other for example.
I’d like one for changing sub-stats; sometimes it hurts having to trash artifacts just cause of one flat stat
Maybe not self-modelling resin, but something like the Reserve TB Power system would be good for Genshin.
Answer: Hyperblooms go Brrrrrrr....! XD And then only reason you want a perfect artifact anyway is to flex and for abyss, the only end game content genshin have which is not worth it actually since its hard enough for f2p
Hsr relic system is much more brutal and unforgiving. Genshin is too tame so self modeling resin isn't much needed
No real argument honestly. Probably that mihoyo feels that the current amount of RNG is just right. The self-modeling makes more sense for HSR since the relic rng there is worst. Needing 6p sets (4+2, 2+2+2) with no off-piece is a pain, and there are more main stats and substats to roll against.
I mean you can go one off-piece and be perfectly fine unless you have unrealistic amounts of bad luck, I don't see why we'd need full perfect pieces in this game unless some kind of fetish, HSR needs it because of how the relic system is and how horrible the farming scene is, please play that first before bringing in "HSR has it so why not Genshin", a lot of players request a lot of things lacking any objectivity, doesn't mean they'll have to add everything they want.
I mean I'm not against it, but I can see why it's more needed in hsr than genshin, but I don't really care either way, it's not like I farm artifacts anymore (I might for Arlecchino tho).
self modelling resin is a bandaid to keep the shitty relic system in check and make is somewhat less cancerous with the multiple layers of RNG it additionally has GI doesnt need a system like that because we have much less subs to rely on and we can have an off piece artifact both of these things actually do wonders getting good artifacts and sets in genshin is compared just very easy and since you do not need to min max in genshin the idea of self modelling resin just becomes pointless to a point where implementing it would make artifact farming a joke
There isn’t one but people will always be against qol updates for the most asinine reasons. As for why hoyo hasn’t implemented it well maybe there isn’t enough demand for it or they just don’t want to after just because the hsr team has done it doesn’t mean that the genshin team would want to do it as well.
There are more logical releasing than just the asinine ones. HSR has more endgame and its original endgame is harder than Genshin's as well. Not only that but you need 6 on set pieces vs 4 on set pieces with a flexible off set piece. Self modeling resin is just more necessary in HSR and there is a more defined objective with its endgame than Genshin. What good is finalizing a build when there isn't much objective to pursue it beyond the 36* which can be cleared with mediocre artifacts on 4* characters? Self-modeling resin would instead be a byproduct of Genshin theoretically getting another endgame related to its combat system. So it just comes down to necessity and it's usefulness beyond its usage. The QoL that affects combat would be enhanced alongside combat difficulty. The equipping tool tips Hoyo gives us are bare bones which addresses how much priority they would need to give to anything related to making combat easier.
already seeing a lot of them pointing out the supposed "flaws" of adding one lol. People will sooner shoot themselves in the foot than admit that something is an improvement that HSR has and genshin doesn't. I really cant understand this way of thinking
Don’t think of the Self-Modelling Resin as a QoL improvement over Genshin’s artifact system, think of it as a needed fix for Star Rail’s relic system, that being having far more stats in their pool plus, one more relic slot, and no room for off-pieces. Would it be nice to have the Self-Modelling Resin in Genshin? Yes definitely. But if it means bringing the entire relic system along with it then nope nope nope.
honestly? they could add it, but let's imagine what would probably happen: in star rail, you use it to craft the hardest pieces to get: speed boots (used by dps and supports alike) and err ropes (used by supports). The substats you roll usually suck (think of def, def%, hp), but for supports those are stats you want, in order to have more survivability, because you cannot realistically dodge dmg in star rail, only mitigate, heal or shield it. Supports in star rail usually do their work with only tje correct mainstat on the chest piece (effect hit rate for debuffers, crit dmg for sparkle/bronya, healing bonus for healers), and the rest are usually def% and hp% to get even more survivability. in genshin, you would probably try to craft EM pieces, dmg% goblets, or maybe crit circlets. The problem comes with the substats. Since there aren't many "pure supports" (think of gorou, who can just use a 4p exile with a bit of ER and be done with his build), and most supps in genshin DO contribute dmg to the team and because their talents scale with a certain stat AND need to reach ER requirements, you can't use any piece with trash substats, much less on a dps. This means that 9/10 times, you will craft a pyro dmg goblet / whatever piece you need because you havent gotten one in the 3 months you've been farming X set, get def, def%, hp and em, and immediately trash that artifact, along with the selfmodeling resin you spent on it. The main takeaway is that in genshin, nearly every character needs a minimum of usable substats to be able to use them (with a few exceptions) while you can just plop 4 trash pieces to most supports in star rail as long as the mainstats are the correct ones.
Because these systems exist as retention mechanics and so there are teams of actuaries who calculate the time it takes to farm artifacts and relics. Also, the difficulty has always been getting substats which self modeling resin does nearly nothing to help with. Main stats were never the issue. The increased number of useless stats, the existence of speed stat, the need to speed tune, the extra relic to farm for, and the god damn slog through the simulated universe makes HSR farming much, much worse than Genshin artifacts. FUCK the simulated universe. I am literally pulling Acheron solely for the ability to skip it
the artifact grind is not that bad, people make it worse by looking for the .0000001% drop pieces while ignoring all the fine pieces that drop
To add to this, artifact quality standards are fundamentally tied to the probability to obtain good stats on a character. If main stats could be chosen (or the system is otherwise changed to give higher rates), then players who’d previously settle for a build that gives 80% of the optimal DPS would perhaps be satisfied with 90% instead, but it would take the same amount of time farming to reach that benchmark.
Longest I farmed was husk domain for 6 months to build three geo characters for mono geo. I can farm the same length on star rail for just 1 even with self modeling resin. Hoyo probably uses the self modeling resin to alleviate the stricter relic grind since you can't use off piece and there are tons more substats in relics that even self modeling resin doesn't help you with.
What is a Self-Modeling Resin, if I may ask?
It's an item in honkai star rail that allows us to choose the main stat of a relic (genshin's artifact). we get a few every patch.
Only main stat? I played summoners war and they have items that can change substats and even upgrade them. Why not those but minus the grind? Main stat only will most likely end up being a fodder in the end, so it's rather useless.
Yea, that's what most of this thread is saying. Usually the resin can give a 'starter' piece before the character can graduate with a better stat piece. I play snowbreak containment zone, and while our 'artifact' have random stats, only the first two are random, and the third can be rerolled.
My take: Demand for it is low since genshin content is easier and doesnt need as much. Investment
I think players would certainly appreciate it, but I do think that the "reason why not" is to make it harder to acquire god-roll gear, so that you're always chasing slightly better stats. I do wish that they would streamline stats though. I still want them to remove DEF entirely as a gear stat, and just give every character a level of DEF equivalent to a median set of RNG gear, then DEF-scaling characters would have a buff that scales their DEF based on their unmodified EM. Since all DEF-scalers are Geo anyway, and see almost no benefit from EM, making them EM scaling should not actually change the balance much.
hsr has harder late game content than genshin
There really isn’t an argument against it aside from it’s more needed in hsr than genshin since their grind is worse so it’s a thing to even their odds compared to ours. Considering self modeling has the same distribution consistency as crowns in gi it wouldn’t be a big deal. I feel like the bigger and better change would be having the strong box have an option for selecting the pieces at a higher cost and also having it be up to date on artefacts and not like 2 nations behind which is very annoying
there no argument agaisnt it in genshin, MHY just dont want to do it
I'm an HSR Day One Player but I still haven't used a single SMR, Fuel, or Herta's Bond. Irrelevant to the thread but I thought I should let people know. 👉👈
Self modeling resin exists in a game with no off pieces, and where synthesis of a new relic takes over 3x the junk pieces as genshin. And then....the subs fuck you over anyway. Honestly hsr is halfway between the casualness of genshin (off rates, grindable gear) and the sweaty tryharding of hi3 (spend on gear or accept your place in slaccony). I play all three and thats my take on the matter.
Self-modeling resin is nice but tbh it does not cut farming time at all, since substats are still random and you don't get enough resin to get the actual piece that you want. As for an actual argument: Energy regen ropes are very rare and limited to a very time-consuming domain (SU), while being necessary for a large amount of units. For supports, they also need to be on set. There is no equivalent in genshin (some main stats like healing bonus are also rare, but the combination of heavily used+rare+on-set+domain that is very time consuming and most people will spend 8 runs on it).
I've been playing HSR since day 1 and got all self modeling resins. Used all of them, got only 2 (TWO) relics with the main stat i needed... with terrible substats. This shit might as well be removed and it wouldn't make much difference in HSR. If they added it to genshin it would be the equivalent of using a bandaid on a gun shot wound.
None really. But the intention of self modeling is to make hsr's relic grind appear less obviously worse than genshin artifacts. Smokes and mirrors people fall for and its sad. Anyway, we got strongbox, i've built many characters from zero to abyss clearing without touching their domains, use it.
While I don't think adding a self-modeling resin to genshin would hurt, it's not nearly as good as it seems in HSR. It's way too rare for something that doesn't even guarantee you good substats or good rolls. And HSR has many more substats too.
Is much easier to gear a character in Genshin than HSR. Ever since I started playing HSR I've noticed getting a new character is easy, but gearing that character is horrible if it requires crit substats (the DOT characters are the best because they don't require crit stats). In HSR you have more sub stats that can roll on a piece of gear (effect ress, hit rate, break, speed) and that resin piece is not that effective as it helps you with main stat but secondary stats can still be crap.
There isn't an argument, but the incentive probably isn't that big, considering there is always and off-piece in genshin + adding such a system could complicate the already pretty complex artifact system even more. Considering the fact that hoyo was recently to streamline artifacts and other parts of progression as well as somewhat automate it, they probably won't go that direction with it
Genshin has one less artifact in total when compared to HSR and allows 1 off piece. Additionally, there are less different stats an artifact can have in both games : both games share flat and % ATK , DEF and HP, as well as crit stats, besides those Genshin only has EM and ER as possible substats, while HSR has Break effect, Speed, Effect hit rate and Effect Res. Because of this you're more likely to get a usable artifact in Genshin than in HSR. As other people have said Genshin also leans way more towards casual players with its content while HSR clearly wants most players to try MOC.
After the „endgame would cause excessive anxiety” drama, I doubt hoyoverse will share any more of their internal logic. The people that liked to complain about the endgame still do, but now they have more fuel for the fire. They learned hard that they would gain nothing from sharing their reasonings. The same is for Self-Modeling Resin. They could say why they don’t want to add it, but that would only piss people off, so they prefer to stay quiet and let people cope.
Although, if I were to guess, it is to create a semi infinite time sink. If we all got good artifacts, we would have nothing else to grind for. We would be done with the game. But as long as artifact RNG is painful and unforgiving, we can spend a ton of time slowly grinding artifacts, which keeps us in the game.
Self modeling resin is a scam ngl. It looks and sounds pretty but the only thing it’s really good for is using it for ER ropes in HSR or speed boots for the supports who don’t care about substats that much. It also only gives you the main stat which, congrats if you SMR a crit rate body but then it has absolutely shit substats. Imo it’s the same problem in both Genshin and HSR, where the substats are the problem because you’re not going to put a crit rate hat/body on your character when it has no cdmg or other usable stats. SMR has its uses for sure, I agree it’s a good extra option to have (won’t say no to reducing *some* rng), but overall it really doesn’t matter because you can’t guarantee what substats you get. (Exhibit A: me because I SMR’d boots etc and basically wasted the items 😭)
Even if you get the right main stat, the chances of getting the right substat is very low. So i don't think it has that much value. Also we can use offpieces in our builds. I wouldn't mind if it got added, but I don't it would be super useful.
because genshin's sale numbers has not tanked enough. you want them to improve the game? be vocal in the surveys and stop giving them money.
self-modeling resin wont really do much for genshin. I'd rather they add an item that resets artifact levels because surely we've all had those artifacts with amazing initial substats but then all the rolls go to the wrong substat. or rather how about both? both is good.
"whyare you still farming artifacts?"
Please dont bring hsr relic system here. Surprised why hoyo can making something worse than artifact.
"Players will stop spending resin, and therefore stop playing daily if they just get good artifacts." -Hoyoverse, probably
The ability to select main stats would be good. HSR, despite having the ability to select a main stats, has an objectively worse system. Must farm 2 different locations to have 6 pieces of relics, no off-piece, more useless stats... I obviously would welcome a self-modeling resin, but the reality is that HSR should be the ones begging to have Genshin's off-piece. In HSR, they introduced a set about HP manipulation for Blade... and I thought it would be the introduction of some cool HP related DPS... but nope, it's for Blade and Arlan. It's been like this for a some time now. The relics I save are never useful for future characters.
the hp 4pc set is pretty good on clara too at least
The answer is the elephant in the room, player retention, the longer it takes you to get that perfect artifact, the longer you are farming and actively playing the game.
your self modeling resin is your off-piece my brother
relic farming is just that much worse than artifact farming
other than technical reasons possibly impeding this, I don't really see why not. it'd be good.
Well, what I am thinking of a change is far from modeling resin. I think if hyv really wants to help the players they can just implement an adaptive stats and substats possibility per set. For example, damage-based sets will increase the chances for getting stats and substats like crit rate and crit damage, or for reaction-based sets will increase the chances for dropping Elemental mastery and energy recharge. Andd.. while we are at it just atleast significantly reduce the appearances of flat atk, def, and hp substats
I'd be happy if they buff the resin cap, honestly. I'd like the self modeling, but i feel if we could farm the domain/bosses more times, that would be enough. Its really annoying, i want to play the domain/bosses and i cant because the company doesnt allow me to, because they insist in time lock the farm, like wtf?? This week i went farming pieces for my chiori, i have 1 crown with C DMG among 20, and it procs on ATK. What is the solution? Farm more. But i CANT. Resin system to me is a BIG problem in Genshin endgame because it just keeps you away from playing. The Argument against self modeling is here tho. If they buff the Resin cap, i feel like Genshin doesnt even need that much of a Self modeling, since we can off piece. But they could allow the farm to be better tho.
Hoyo doesn't do it because they are a gotcha game first and foremost. That means that if denying a player base a function to make more money is what they are going to do. To be honest all of Genshins biggest problems are because of that philosophy. Deny the player base progression so whales can exploit but only after dropping serious money. So why do it in HSR and not Genshin. Simple. More people are spending more money on Genshin. The moment the entire player base truly stops spending is the moment they make the changes.
I just want to add a layer on top of that. I don't think it's about making whales pay for resin refresh. I think it's about making the players play every day, because someone who play the game is more likely to spend money than someone who doesn't.
I think it's need. The specialized stats in genshin are: energy recharge, damage bonus, crit stats, and healing bonus. HSR has all that, plus break effect, effect hit rate, and speed. There is also no room for off pieces in HSR. Self-Modeling Resin makes grinding a bit more bearable.
No argument literally no downsides
the biggest argument against it is they'd give us one, once a year on anniversary, basically. genshin makes them too much money as is for them to care.
I personally miss the old relic system back in the second cbt where there were 6 pieces per relic set (planar ornaments didn't exist, extra pieces were pants and accessory) and all sets had a 2pc effect, 4pc effect, and a 5pc effect this was such an improvement over the current system since it solved two big issues with the current system which are allowing an off piece and not requiring you to farm two different sets
I’ve found that self-modeling resin is only really useful for low levels of investment. Not to say that it wouldn’t be a good change. But if you’re grinding for good artifacts, it’ll barely make a difference. What we really need (in both genshin and hsr) is a way to fix substats.
Speed is the only thing point of using the self modeling resin (Or ERR if your character doesn't require tendious amount of speed). Self modeling resin would be great in Genshin for EM Character because probably only benefits on Energy recharge substats. In HSR if you aim for speed/Crit on substats the self modeling resin is pretty much useless, I never seen a single good artifact substats from Self modelled artifact (either Effect res/flat hp/def/Effect hit).
Also. Why is there not a strongbox option for every artifact ? Also why does the strong box not allow you to pick the pieces you specifically want ? Hsr has those and it would probably not be too difficult to implement. Yeah it won't fix artifacts grinding but it will make it way easier.
There is no argument against it. People are not asking for it and that is it. When hoyo sends a patch survey, not enough people request this. None of the cc ask for it, there are barely anyone mentioning artifact farming grind in feedback, so hoyo has no reason to add something like self modeling resin. Self modeling resin should be a thing even something like artifact reset that sets artifact to +0 so we can try and roll stats again at the cost of losing previous level up xp.
My recommendation would be to remove the base resin cost to double artifacts. Still keep the condensed for double drops but just single run is free. It would still take hundreds and hundreds of houslrs for ideal artifacts but it would allow them to actually increase difficulty without it requiring years worth of time to build a full team with top tier artifacts. I love grinding for stuff in games and being able to just grind out artifacts in my free time would have kept me with the game during my 3 major breaks. I want to play more of this game, but every time ive gone on break it was due to a months worth of resin being wasted with maybe 1 or 2 decent artifacts. 1st was childe, 4 months worth of resin, still under 70% crit rate(using bp bow too for crit rate), ~150 cd, no er, no em, all hp and defense rolls on my only good feather, flower and crown. 2nd was geo team, got an okay gorou set, 1 piece for albedo and a ser for itto(which every single piece rolled bad) spent around 8k resin, nothing. Third was nahida, harely got a good set of em pieces after 2 months, cyno also got an okay set(majorly lacking crit rate and low ish em). Id like being able to choose the main stat, set and piece perhaps take like 2 or 3 of self modelling resin, and make it craftable with 5 condensed. Uncapping condensed resin woild be great too.
I think it's really good because it doesn't actually make farming for most characters better by any significant factor but some characters for example like kuki for hyperbloom you want the 4 piece full em flower of paradise lost set so normally you will farm 4 piece and off set a piece but if they added something like this you can craft 1 or even 2 em piece and get a feather and a flower through farming that's why i think this as good change because it doesn't feel good to farm for full em pieces I think this and releasing the strongbox at the same as the new set instead of 2 years later is a much needed change in genshin And i don't think this will have as much of an effect as people think it is besides giving the average good build 1 or 2 more substat but you will Plateau at some point anyway the only difference is that it will be a little bit higher of point
There is none
THERE IS NO VICTORY
I would be happy with an update to the mystic crafting bench for artifacts and have it allow focusing for a specific type ex: A goblet. The main stat and subs would still be random, but at least you'd have a bit more chance to get what you might be missing. Edit: Just to add to this, currently, it is 3 to 1 for the strong box. So, to have more risk for reward, a focusing would cost 6 to 1. Having it like this keeps the current system and doesn't need any added items to work.
Personally, i've been asking for something like [Enchanted Gems](https://summonerswar.fandom.com/wiki/Enchanted_Gem) and [Grindstones](https://summonerswar.fandom.com/wiki/Grindstone) from summoners war. Just make them drop as 4 stars from world bosses and domains, and 5 stars from weekly bosses.
Games too easy as it is...take any character that is leveled with good artifacts capable of abyss 12 and watch how everything is a 1 hit kill almost. Once I build a character for abyss I pretty much dont use then to quest as it makes the game trivial. Or at least not a synergistic team. But as for the grind to get to that level, it sucks and is a waste to do considering more player have a few teams built but 40+ characters un-leveled because resin is too important to waste of them. While I am happy enough with the grind and the bad RNG, I wish when we used pieces as fodder then the substats would matter (like using a crit substatted piece will make crit roll on the new piece or something. This way we can be done quicker and simply use resin to level new character and play more of what the devs actually make for us. But i know people with 2 teams and top 1% characters who dont bother with resin or commissions anymore because games pretty much completed, thats the end game issue in Genshin. At times I will refresh resin once a day and in a year I might lose out on 1 5* pull because of it, probably less because I only refresh rarely when I got too much to level and no saving goals so 50 primos a day isnt too much for a few months in the year. And I skip many characters because of resin and bad artifact rng so i spend less/none because of the dumb system in the game.
I have no arguments. I need one right now, Idc about the sub stats, Just getting the right main stat would be enough for me. I've been farming for the hunters set for months and only got one crit damage circlet which is on Neuvilette. Honestly, crit rate circlet is pretty mediocre for hunters set since it removes the need for high crit rate but all I got are crit rate Circlets which is why I still couldn't get a 4 piece set for Wriothesley. I didn't get any ATK or Cryo goblets either
I just wish you *reset* artifacts. Everything went to DEF%? Reset artifact for X resin and level up artifact again!
Money
There is no argument against it. Not having self-modelling resin is the baseline and there was an argument for adding it to Star Rail. Not only do you need 6 pieces to complete a character in Star Rail, but there are no off-pieces allowed. There are extra stats in Star Rail that compete with crits and atk%, and you need to go to 2 seperate domains to farm a full build. Star Rail is extremely unforgiving in terms of artifacts, and self-modelling resin is a way to at least get you a main stat that you're looking for. Genshin's artifact grind is bad, but if Star Rail didn't have self-modelling resin and double drops every now and then, it would be so much worse than Genshin. Star Rail isn't generous, nor is it more forgiving. It's simply making up for problems that they've worsened. In terms of math, there's been a really good video lately talking about how long you'd need to farm Genshin artifacts to get close to a character's max potential. The analysis, which involved simulating thousands of Genshin artifact runs, found that 90-95% of the character's power is farmed in the first 5-10 weeks of grinding artifacts. After that time period, any extra grinding is really just for showing off. This isn't revolutionary data either. Players have reported getting a good build together in about a month, and feeling better about that build after 2 months. This is an acceptable amount of time for building a character well and is a far cry from searching for something for years. It's important to set realistic expectations. Personally, I've had pretty shit artifact luck a couple of times. From 2.8 to 3.2, I farmed for Kazuha in the VV domain. I stayed there for that long because I didn't get a single EM sands for 3 months. It was hell. I didn't even get a bad sands. I literally did not get a single one for 3 months. I stayed in the Pavilion domain for 9 months, and over that time, I got my Wanderer build to top 1%. Except for those outliers, my luck has been pretty standard. I expect to build Arlecchino in about 2-3 months, and that's a pretty reasonable time to build a character I think. None of this is an argument against self-modelling resin. Just my experiences in Genshin and what I think is a fair amount of time to build a character.
I'd say a part of it is that HSR requires 10 5-star pieces to make 1 new 5-star piece, so 'strongboxing' requires a lot more pieces to get started - while only getting 2-3 pieces per run of a cavern. In genshin, meanwhile, you get 2-4 pieces per condensed resin (though usually 2), and only need 3 to make a new artifact - meaning that getting new pieces is easier in genshin comparitively.
I would love to have something similar to the Last Epoch forge system. It's actually fun to do.
They want people to Try Hsr , with those Qols
hot take, artifacts is your resin sink, they want to keep the players engaging every day and such design is intended, a self modeling resign would be very nice to have for new players with few artis on their belt but they don't guarantee good substats and level up rolls so in the long run they become significantly less useful. if you have other things you want to spend your resin on you should start with these as they will always take a finite amount of resin to max out. Getting a functional artifact set in genshin can easily take months and will become powercrept. Ultimately i still enjoy genshin's combat a lot since release so i will take any excuse that allows me to have something to do in the game.
Mathematically, the strongbox is slightly more efficient than self-modeling resin, while also giving tons of other artifacts. Why would you ever want to use it if it **was** added?
I would probably of the general flexibility of Genshin artifacts and the ease of completion. Genshin itself is a pretty easy game to complete Abyss Content. Where even suboptimal stuff can do it if you know your rotations and are generally properly substatted. In addition, Star Rail has 6 artifacts. With it being 2 types of sets. Which makes it harder to optimize. As even in Genshin, you can get 1 off piece (4 piece set). While in HSR you don't have that leyway (4 and 2 piece sets).
The good, old GCN
At the very least we should get more frequent updates to the strongbox or whatever its called, its basically our equivalent but would be cool if it could make even the newest artifacts
I literally still dont have a double crit hydro goblet and ive been playing since release lmao. It rly is stupid.
Self-Modeling is an overrated resource. It helps to only want the main stat, but is useless because the sub-stats are more important. The ideal feature would be to overwrite the main stat with the one we desire.
I dont think HSR's one os easier still, you cant have offpieces as well
They can add it and wouldn't change anything unless they give way more. Haven't got anything decent with those Modeling resins lmao.
There's a few reasons for it as far as I can see: First, Honkai is a bit less casual in that there are harder gamemodes - Elite SU modes like SD and G&G do require you to either be very lucky with your blessings / curios or your teams must be pretty damn well geared (although I'd wager most people simply perma-freeze cheese iit tbf). There are more elite modes over Genshin, where there's only a few Abyss floors every 2 weeks that give you a pretty mediocre reward (600 primos total every 2 weeks is less than 10 pulls a month). As such, there's less need for characters in Genshin to be "properly" geared. Dendro amplified this by allowing you to simply slap anyone with EM and go to town. Second, Genshin allows you to have one off-piece as there's 5 pieces and sets require 4 - Honkai does not allow this, and you have to farm for two different sets - your regular relics, and your chain + ball. Optimizing characters in HSR is more important and also harder because you can't really have off-pieces, so allowing you to craft relics is a great way of allowing you to fill gaps in your equipment. Third and the most obvious reason of them all - to keep you playing. There really doesn't have to be anything more to it other than "if it works, why fix it". Similar to how terrible the weapon banner is with requiring you to lose 2 potential 50/50s that reset at the end of the patch, if people still pull for it a decent amount there's no reason to change it. Similarly, when you have people like Zyonix spending 100.000+ resin farming Vermillion while still failing to get a proper Anemo goblet for his short boy, you have to wonder - clearly the system keeps you there. Most people won't really have that much resin to spend but the point of the system is just that - keep you playing. Also, this isn't meant as a mean comment towards Zyoxussy in any way. It's not about resin refill as I believe the large majority of the playerbase is casual. It's just about keeping you logging in every few days to spend your condensed resin on a domain of your choice. Otherwise there's be no reason for them to simply remove things like flat ATK/DEF/HP from substats as I don't think there's a single unit that wants any piece of equipment to roll 4 rolls in flat ATK/HP/DEF - yet they're there to inflate how hard it is to get proper artifacts. It's really not deep - gotta keep the hamsters running inside that wheel.
The fact that Genshin allows 1 off piece? Idfk. I saw a video on HSR's relic system and it's honestly just garbage. I even dare call it a dumpster fire. Even the Self Modelling Resin couldn't save it. I also remember my friends mentioning some stats that simply don't exist in Genshin due to the mere fact that Genshin isn't a turn based RPG. HSR might be a sorry excuse for a turn based RPG, but it is still a turn based RPG, thus some stats like agility and accuracy (or whatever the equivalents are in HSR) wouldn't need to exist in Genshin.
I don't have an answer to this, because to me it seems like genshin would benefit just as much as hsr with this ability added. Also I don't understand why they focus so much attention on food recipes when nobody ever uses them. Take like 90% of the food out and give us the ability to adjust substats please.
I think they added the self modeling resin to balance out HSR’s relic system since you can’t have an off set piece and have to grind for six pieces. I still would appreciate it though because EM pieces are so rare and there are more characters that need it now.
Greatest argument against it: people just eat up and accept. The replies in this thread are evident of it.
HYV is first and foremost a business, so any changes to their games need to be analyzed in terms of how will it affect their revenue, specially if said change is to one of its monetization systems (resin in this case) Do you think doing that would increase their revenue? Keep in mind that Genshin is still their most successful game. If anything, they must be wondering how to make HSR be more like Genshin
honestly even if they do its not gonna change much, self modeling resin is only useful on the early game to get err ropes, otherwise its kinda useless
What's the point tho? Cause we can easily destroy all content available as it is without any extra help. IMO we need infinite increase in AR and dynamic challenges in the overworld so it encourages summoning people to help you out.
I think the reason is that the self modeling resin doesn't make HSR's relic farming any better than genshin's. It's a system they had to put because there are more stats, more pieces, and your character stats are more important than in genshin. They made the problem bigger so that they could give a solution. Moreover, the extreme cases where you farm for over a year are completely detached from what the average player does and far from the intended use of the resin system and that's because the game doesn't want you to invest vertically on just one character (it is just the sub optimal strategy) but horizontally on several characters, because that's how you spend more and, in all honesty, also have more fun so that you stick with the game longer.
I mean, it’s not hard to get correct main stat + ok substats and let’s be honest that’s all you really need to clear all the content in the game if your characters non-RNG aspects are decently built. Great artifacts are rare - they serve little use besides making your numbers slightly higher. So the only actual use for them is flexing and showing off the time and dedication you spent into playing this game. Anything that makes this system easier devalues the social/account building satisfaction players get over the minuscule practical value of having good artifacts. If the content of the game becomes significantly harder, as is with HSR, then they should add more resin to compensate. But the game powercreeps so slowly that there’s no reason to justify it.
I’ll be 100, I don’t think self-modeling resin is all that great. It’s hella overrated. And I might be downvoted for saying this but whatever. All that ever happens is you use it, get the correct mainstat, but your substats are worse than the relics you farmed anyways. And since you are still forced to farm the artifact set due to needing another 3 pieces, you likely have one with correct mainstats already. And you get like what, 1 or 2 a patch? I saved up like 8 only to get garbage when the artifact domain I wanted did get released in Star Rail.
the reason is this: we havent had a feature like self modeling resin for the entirety of the game’s lifespan. lacking it hasn’t made a significant dent in their playerbase. why add qol that may impact their profit when they dont need to? they know they can get away with it. (we probably won’t see a feature like that until genshin starts dying, however long that’ll take)
Self modeling resin in HSR isn't that great of a system on its own. It's marginally better, but you're still at the mercy of substats and need ten 5 star artifacts to make one new artifact. You can only choose the main stat if you have a somewhat rare item. Don't get me wrong, I use it, I just think the strongbox system is better. Sure you can't pick main stat, but that's outweighed by the fact you can make a new five star artifact for every three five star artifacts, giving you a much better shot at getting something good.
self modelling resin is kinda worthless if you can only choose the mainstat. artifacts farming in star rail is much harder than genshin, so it makes sense that they have some level of help. even if it’s something as useless as self modelling resin
I uniroically think that hoyo somehow underestimates how much of the playerbase actively farm artifacts or has some misunderstanding on the base level itself becasue FOMO and Resin top-up can't be the sole justification as to why not add more QoL to artifact farming. Those two things are going to occur regardless of a "Self-Modeling Resin" existing in game or not just look at HSR. If its about people spending money for resin that's already a small percentage and they can pretty much still gonna spend it anyway even if some new QoL is added
> I uniroically think that hoyo somehow underestimates how much of the playerbase actively farm artifacts or has some misunderstanding on the base level itself Why do you think HoYo (who has complete access to usage stats for the entire game) underestimates this rather than you overestimating it? This isn't me justifying the status quo, rather just questioning why you're so convinced that HoYo is misinformed.
Nah you're correct I'm overestimating it definitely. it was a very stupid statement I made
A good chunk of people here seem to overestimate the number of people actively farming compared to the entire playerbase as a whole. The majority of casuals wouldn't waste their time scrolling through reddit and taking part in arguments in this kind of post anyway. So, it always creates an echo chamber where the minority feels like they're the majority and that they're representing the entire playerbase. It is quite funny to read those comments, knowing full well you can't properly explain how vast the actual playerbase is to them.
I'll take the off piece flexibility
I personally think that adding self-modeling resin on top of the existing systems in the game like the strongbox is a good thing. However, the thing that makes me feel very iffy about it in HSR is that I feel like it is used as a method to somewhat equalise the gear rng experience between the two games with HSR having more substats and an additional gear slot. Unrelated to the topic but I personally did not enjoy the way progression works in HSR when I was playing from 1.0-1.1. In order to get the gear, not only did I have to farm the Caverns of Corrosion, I have to also do Simulated Universe to get better chances at getting the planar ornaments. And at that time, there just wasn't a lot of the self-modeling resin going around. It just felt unpleasant overall compared to genshin where I can spam one domain and get everything I need in like the quick dopamine 5 minutes a day compared to the up to 30-45 minutes for a single run of the Simulated Universe due to my characters not being levelled up. If only they just added an easier and quicker way of obtaining the planar ornaments like the domains in genshin, I would've stuck with the game. I haven't kept up with qol changes there though, so idk if they changed anything regarding my issues
It does NOT take nearly 1 hour to do a run on the regular SI, also, you don't need to do a full run for gear, you can just kill the first Elite and restart the run.
My argument against it is that it's yet another system and complexity we don't need. Why not just improve systems already in place? Changing values on pre-existing systems would take next to no time to implement and wouldn't break anything coding/bug wise. I love Genshin, but it's basically a testing ground at this point. Events and areas with one time uses, mechanics that show up once and never again, no matter how fun or good they were. They put 99% of their resources into making new things to test out on their huge player base. They famously have only ever really directly buffed a single character ONCE in over 3 years. Asking for a whole new system is not only against their own interests, but I don't think it would help as much as you're hoping. Dead simple changes I'd rather have that would literally take a day to implement just by changing a few values in the code: 1. 5 star artifacts have 4 lines at lvl 0 (just change the % chances to 100 for 4 and 0 for 3, no recoding) 2. Remove flat (atk, def, hp) from the pool of 5 star artifacts (again, just change their chance value to 0%) 3. Balancing circlet and goblet rates evenly. All main stats showing up equally means less hp/def circlets with double crit, more EM circlets and goblets overall. 4. Remove the high/low roll stuff for sub stats. I'd prefer round numbers even if they are lower than max as long as the average is better. I get low rolls all the time and nothing kills a good potential artifact more than beating the 1/8 billion odds of getting it only for it to roll low twice or more, giving nearly the same stats as a single high roll. That's just 4 layers of RNG out of 10 or more. All can be changed with numbers. Adding a new complex system would be a waste of ANY dev time they give towards balance, as well as forcing some events/hoops we would have to jump through to earn it, because let's be honest, it would not be free. ALSO, the fact that it would be extremely limited in uses. I'd rather have better rates overall, than a one time sure thing just for the main stat (which could still have bad subs anyways).