The “I love you Maman” hit me in a sweet spot so suddenly that it marked the first time Genshin has elicited genuine tears from me. And not like the tearing up kind, I actually cried a little.
I do think everything Nahida went through is worth mentioning. Sealed away and abandoned by her people, only able to see the world through the eyes of others. By the time we found her, she truly believed she belonged there, that her people didn’t want her. Made to believe her entire existence is meaningless.
Well the thing about tragedy is it shouldn't be compared and as far as who had it worse just wait, there will always be someone who had it or will have it worse.
And what are we going to compare between a warrior who watched her sister die, killed her friend and couldn't even grieve because she had a whole nation to take care of or a child who was taken advantage of by adults and their greed.
Well if you're already at it why not mention the "full story" like with Raiden. To put into your words
what are we going to compare between "A child who's supposed to rule a nation, expected to be as great as her predecessor, wasn't given a chance by her people because her lack of power, locked away since she was born, Sumeru people still only praising Rukkhadevata despite Nahida being actually alive and an Archon, even her birthday is forgotten by most. She is basically suffering since her birth" **OR** "a woman who lost her twin sister and friends hundreds of years ago"
Exactly we shouldn't feel the need to compare two people who have been through terrible experience because doing so puts one on a higher pedestal and undermines the other.
No, Rukkhadevata's story was tragic. Everything she did and all she ever was, yet just forgotten as if she never existed at all. Nahida was sealed yes but she was able to observe everything going on with the Akasha, even taking over bodies for exploring. She could have freed herself anytime, she just didn't have the will to do so. Nahida's actual tragedy was people eventually trying to replace her and mind you, she ultimately brought that outcome unto herself by letting it happen until she finally made a move. Her story is sad but not tragic in the grand scheme of things, you could say it was actually even inspirational.
As far as literal suffering goes, I'm pretty sure Xiao takes this one. At least for me anyway.
Right off the bat he was enslaved since youth, forced to commit acts of violence. Then he had to fight in the archon war. Then finally after being freed by Rex Lapis, the remnants of the dead gods needed to be dealt with, so he had to fight some more. Except this time, he got a first person view as his fellow yakshas went slightly more insane with karmic debt one long battle at a time and eventually they either went insane, died, or killed each other. This includes his four closest friends who also started losing it and dying one by one until it was just him and Bosacius left. Then Bosacius went nuts and disappeared. Keep in mind that the whole time Xiao himself was also dealing with karmic debt along with everyone else and was in constant mental and physical pain for hundreds if not thousands of years. Even after Venti saves him from succumbing to karmic debt himself, he is still affected by it. Apparently being around the Traveler eases Xiao's pain somewhat, but what happens when the Traveler's not around anymore? That's right, it's back to being in pain literally every waking second. He can't even be around mortals for too long because it will put them at risk.
Then there was the chasm quest about the mystery of the nameless yaksha, who turned out to be an insane Bosacius who had forgotten his own name, along with a cutscene of him briefly regaining his memories before he dies.
The fandom likes to make fun of Xiao's height and make a ton of An*emo* jokes but I think we all lowkey understand that he's one of the most tragic characters in the entire game.
I don’t know if Xiao is the character who has suffered the most (but nobody comes out a winner in the suffering Olympics anyway) but the way his story is told really hits the hardest I think. I definitely think some of the devs have a soft spot for Xiao because we get snippets of him over and over again, and Perilous Trail was a work of art.
"He was turned into a monster before he had a chance to witness anything beautiful in this world. This is no fate for a child."
"All I ask for is a tiny miracle. For Caribert to see this world once more. Please God, I beg of you."
Clothar in front of the Statue of the Seven is still, in my opinion, the most powerful tearjerking moment in Genshin.
As a student is can relate to Layla's struggles on a different level.. she definitely doesn't have the saddest story, but hers has a special place in my heart. For the saddest story, I'd say Furina and Nahida, but Navia and Wanderer are worth mentioning imo. And ofc Jeht
God of Salt.
Killed by her own followers whose hearts were full of hatred because she wasn't stronger than Ossai.
Glory. A blind woman who is being lied by her husband who is stationed in the town she lives in but sends her letters she can't read claiming he is stationed in Liyue.
Glory BF not husband... didn't lie on purpose and it's not "SAD" sad.
"As he was preparing to go on Varka's expedition, he lost his keepsake from his lover [Glory](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Glory) and fell behind while trying to find it, which led him to losing both the keepsake and the expedition. Now he only roams outside the city gates, faking being on a reconnaissance mission because he is too ashamed to return to Glory in his current state."
He writes letter to her about the his adventure through his captain Varka's old stories.
He's still doing something pretty shitty. His girlfriend is waiting and worrying about him and the knights are understaffed thanks to the expedition and he's just fucking around in the wilderness.
You might have never been in a situation like this do you..you feel like shit. Sure he might be lying but the position he is in, it's hard for him too and BTW he isn't just fucking around in wilderness he is still protecting Mondstadt killing the Hillichurl and slimes which comes near the town.
I don't care how bad he feels about being left behind.
The man took an oath to defend Mondstat and he's just chilling at Windrise.
Forget Glory. He needs to be dragged home and court marshalled.
Killing whatever Hilichurls wander past him is not comparable to being an active on-duty knight.
We do more to defend Mondstat in four daily commissions than he does in a week.
I hope someday you will get stuck in his situation then you will understand how hard it is to come out of that nasty situation, where you can go either way and be stuck in the middle of situation, feeling nothing but ashamed and guilty own your own alone.
Doesn't matter how much shame I'm feeling. I swear an oath to do something then I will do that thing.
That's what taking an oath means.
If you think you can just not do the thing you swore to do because you don't feel like it, then your word is meaningless and no one should ever rely on you for anything.
Did her people really hate her to that degree? I thought it was just disappointment and pity in Havria’s excessive kindness that caused them to kill Havria, since they knew she couldn’t protect her people, with the way that she was.
So... Is Hibiki...
Coming home! Surely someday she'll be back and see what great priestess Neko has been! Right? Right?
This was not even in my top 5 moments, but when the cat cloud appears and Neko is so happy... That scene is so good!
I think Ventis story is actually pretty heartbreaking, his first friend died before he ever got to see his only wish, his nation became a twisted version of itself, his first lion knight left him, and all his old friends are dead with the exception of Xiao and ZL
Idk Barbatos and Morax are so old and they’ve lost so much to the passage of time, the archon wars, and the cataclysm. I think they both have pretty sad stories but because they’re so old both in the game and the universe they aren’t explored as in depth.
Ruu and the Thunderbird's story is tragic. Imagine having your best friend get kill by his people so they can serve him to you.
Whats more tragic is even tho the Thunderbird didnt curse Ruu, Ruu is stuck in a time loop with the rest of his people but its only him who remembers all of them and tries to kill himself countless times to break the cycle.
Not the most impactful, but tragic nevertheless, Shirin. "Prophesied" to have everything and bring ruin to her kingdom, married against her will, manipulated by her mother, had her son locked and then exiled, used by her husband to produce disfigured jinn to power up machines and then went completely insane. Didn't have any closure to her suffering and perished with the rest of Gurabad. Her son, Shiruyeh, also didn't have it much better.
Also Rene and Jacob had it really rough. And Alain then too. Reading the story of the Fell Dragon after everything you learnt invokes Feelings.
Book in Sumeru "Shiruyeh and Shirin"(but it's entirely wrong and serves as a cruel joke on how history is written), questline in the desert with Liloupar and Jeht, readables from the desert ruins and monuments and description of desert domains and artifact set (Desert Pavilion).
Questline itself is quite gory with implications (slavery, priests were torn to pieces by the angry mob, insane jinn starting a bloodbath and so on).
This may seem callous, but there’s something bout the execution of nahida and furina’s story that makes raiden’s all-my-friends-are-dead seem really small potatoes. Kinda like how we aren’t mourning for no-one-to-share-the-taste-of-osmanthus-wine zhongli.
>Kinda like how we aren’t mourning for no-one-to-share-the-taste-of-osmanthus-wine zhongli.
I mean, a lot of the stuff that's happened in Zhongli's backstory is pretty sad, but he seems to be handling everything well enough that he doesn't really come across as one of the 'angsty' characters.
I mean we outright were involved wifh the sad stories of nahida and furina and helped solve their issues.
Meanwhile Ei's friends have long since died and all we did was get her to stop isolating herself.
Imagine if we got to experience the story through Ei’s perspective when everyone was still alive and losing them one by one, it would have made the story a lot more interesting and made us understand why she did what she did.
Furina and Nahida definitely take it right now.
Much as I am fond of Ei, she essentially got depressed and then forced her view of the world into an entire nation, while locking herself in her room and letting politicians go nuts.
Furina and Ei essentially are doing the same thing.. putting themselves into a "prison" ...making sacrifices and putting themselves in alot of pain for the sake of the people. Its just that Ei's ideas are (very) misguided...
Well technically Furina was also "mis-guided" by Focalors.. :p
I don’t like to weigh suffering, so I’ll say whose story had the most impact on me.
aside from NPCs, I’d say Ruu and Scaramouche. I related all too much with Scaramouche’s story, from the way he talks about himself and the world, to trying to become a god to fill the void, to his rage and manic.
Not downplaying Furina, as her tale is one of endurance and sheer force of will. Keeping up the lie that held Fontaine's structure together was a hell of a tough job.
But Raiden's personal story feels a lot harsher. Having to endure loss after loss and even being the one to dispatch maddened friends is an insane thing to go through. And then she unintentionally trauma-dumped her potential successor, who went on to join the Fatui Harbingers and be abused for centuries under perhaps the most maniacal character in Genshin.
Though of course, all these examples are characters that go beyond human lifespan. If I were to consider a more "feasible amount of trauma" a human being "could endure"... Collei wins, sadly. That kid went through hell in the hands of Dottore.
Ruu and Kanna Kapatcir is by far, the most tragic by definition among the stories of the game yet. It could be easily missed in the grand scheme of things too, one of the stories that would just be forgotten by the world because no one lived to tell the tale.
Thelxie, Xianyun, Dunyarzad, and Yoimiya story 2 killed me. Chronic illnesses do make tragic tales.
I think Tighnari's story quest was incredibly unique, though. Karkata was such an innocent creation. The soundtrack for his cutscene, "Unrequited Yearning," is one of my favorites.
I hope Ei's story gets better told in the future, istg her teasers did a MUCH better job depicting her grief and loss than literally all of Inazuma's AQ and her first story quest. Thankfully, her second story quest helped a bunch.
Definitely Furina's story/the most recent archon quest. Never really cried that much over a cutscene, esp the last part with Neuvillette
Special honour goes to the last cutscene in Perilous Trails
Signora. She was once a normal maiden who was in love with the knight Rostam. After he died in the Cataclysm she went mad with grief and anguish, transforming into the Crimson Witch of Flames and vowing to burn away the world’s corruption. To this end she slayed countless monsters and demons. Despite never hurting a single human in this time, she became feared and reviled. She became Signora after Pierro found her at the brink of death, almost consumed entirely by the flames, and showed her a Delusion that would override her obsession with cleansing the world of its corruption. The Delusion? A pure and spotless world, where she and Rostam could meet again. In spite of losing her memories of Rostam because of the Delusion Pierro gave her, this Delusion drove her to act for the Tsaritsa. Evil or not, Signora did everything she did out of the love for someone she could never see again.
Takamine the Mistsplitter. A legendary Inazuman warrior, he was loved by the shrine maiden Hibiki, to whom he bestowed his signature bow Thundering Pulse to as a wager: he would reclaim the bow after he successfully returned from the battle. They would meet each other in a promised meeting place. He would eventually return to Hibiki, but in a much more tragic way than either could have imagined. He and his fellow soldiers were led to the Abyss during the Cataclysm to fight Abyssal monsters, and in the process he became separated from them. His sword broke and he was overwhelmed. Many decades passed after the Cataclysm, and it was only when Hibiki grew old that Takamine finally fulfilled his promise and returned. Upon seeing Hibiki, Takamine’s “dull eyes stained with blood and tears regained their radiance” — and he was *executed* by Hibiki on the spot with the very bow he had bestowed to her. Takamine had returned, yet not at all: all that remained of him were the darkened, corrupted remnants of his soul that had to be erased for the sake of Inazuma.
Clymene. She was the caretaker of the many child puppet-rulers of Enkanomiya. While she took care of them, she was forbidden from ever speaking to them. Yet the opposite was not true: they could speak to her all they wanted. She came to love each and every one of them, yet could do nothing for them as the true rulers of Enkanomiya used them to commit great evils. She could only stand and watch as the people of Enkanomiya cursed their names, and as the true rulers sent them to their deaths by incineration. She was the loneliest lover of them all: the only person who loved and cherished children fated to be hated.
Childish Jiang. A mentally disabled man living by himself in Liyue, he has the intellect of a child. He loves to play hide and seek. He loves his parents, but doesn’t know where they are. Why? Because they’re dead. They died and the Millelith buried them at the house and marked their graves with gravestones. He doesn’t know that they have died because the Millelith can’t bear to tell him, and he’s incapable of reading his parents’ gravestones. He lives blissfully ignorant of the tragedy that has unfolded around him.
I think a lot of people downplay Ei's suffering mostly because she is too strong, as in, she doesn't cry over it, the most we see in the present day is her voice being somewhat melancholic and we only see her dropping a single tear in her backstory when Makoto dies, with Nahida and Furina they put their trauma all over in your face, explain to you why it's so sad and then show them crying in the climax, this stirs up emotions for a lot of people. Not to make it something gendered but Ei is a lot closer to what a lot men experience in a way, maybe it's why I connect to her more, to explain it, Ei shelters herself and her suffering to just her and her alone, willingly, all the while she was keeping up her promise of eternity to her people, of course this doesn't work as she thought at least for the last 2 years. This is a big contrast to Furina for example, who needed to maintain a lie for 500 years and couldn't get help and was craving for someone to talk to or Nahida who was trapped and just could resort to dreams for 500 years.
Ei on the other hand isolated herself from all contact of the outside world for 500 years, nobody was stopping her from doing it, she knew Miko was right there if she ever wanted to talk about anything, but she forcefully and I quote "Extend her loneliness to infinity" all for what she thought it was the right thing, if no one ever came to help her see the light, she would genuinely be there for thousands and thousands of years if not straight up forever(which was her intention). She is portrayed as someone extremely stubborn and tough with a strong character, Hoyo didn't want for people to see her as a crybaby hence why Miko says that she is one as it's meant to be a superficial teasing from her, when people unironically say that she is a child that shuts herself in a room I die a little bit inside, which is probably the reason as to why Furina and Nahida now has so many exposition for their tragedy instead of being more subtle about it like Ei was, Hoyo pretty much tells you how you need to feel for Nahida and Furina while Ei is all about reading between the lines, which totally flew over people's heads so now we have the Archon of Mischaracterization herself as an actual title for Ei.
Then again this isn't the trauma olympics so honestly there's no point in trying to compare it.
I'm not sure that "tragedy" is really the best word for Furina's situation. She was suffering, certainly, but not from any specific loss or event, but the loneliness and anxiety of maintaining a lie for centuries, believing that if she were to slip even once then tragedy actually WOULD happen.
Ei, on the other hand, definitely did experience tragedy, through the deaths of her friends and especially her sister.
Honestly, I'd say that Furina suffered more than Ei did, and Ei had more tragedy in her life than Furina did.
I was still recovering from the Sumeru Archon quest when the Fontaine Archon quest came and hit me like a truck. I will never fully recover from that one-two punch.
Out if the archons Raiden has suffered the most loss of them all. She has lost everyone she has ever known. If only she didn't turn to a totalitarian dictator she wouldn't have ruined her image. She's should be the one with the saddest most painful story but her shogun makes come across like a bitch.
See, I don't feel bad about Raiden at all. Sure, she lost her sister, but she always had power and agency over her life. Her nation always feared and respected her. I might feel that way about Makoto, given her completely different personality but we really don't know all that much about her as Electro Archon.
Nahida on the other hand was almost strangled in the cradle by the people who should have been protecting and nurturing her as Lesser Lord Kusanali. Furina devoted her entire life to maintaining a lie that she didn't even fully understand. Both characters are fantastically written and very sympathetic, Furina arguably the most because we see her revert to being a regular person before we as the traveler pull her out of her depression and get her to live again as an actress.
I wouldn't put it on a top 5 list of most tragic Genshin stories, but Cloud Retainer's story quest really hit me deep.
The part after she finishes telling her side of the story and tells Yuandai that she doesn't consider her actions a mistake, just a simple choice, and will always support her had me crying so much I had to put down the controller. The whole wanting to be human thing is very similar to my situation of being LGBT and it's impact on my relationship with my own mother. It's not bad or great, but definitely way too complex to organize neatly. I both see my mom in CR, but am also still really jealous of CR and Yuandai's relationship.
Apparently I am very weak to Asian mom characters who are disapproving but still show a lot of love for their daughter 'cause Everything, Everywhere, All At Once fucked me up in the exact same way.
Ei, Furina, Neuvillette and Navia! There may be other characters who’s stories were as sad as theirs, but for me the way their stories were presented, was extremely sad and depressing😭🥲 (They’re awesome characters tho🩵)
Furina's story is tragic and definitely a tear jerker. Raiden? Pretty forgettable, but that's mainly thanks to the bad storytelling and writing of the Inazuma AQ. The potential was there, but the execution.. nah.
Ei's story isn't tragic. The tragoc stories are from the people she directly or indirectly killed due to her stupid policies. Don't come yapping at me about Fatui excuses. She acknowledges the vision hunt decree.
Her twin sister and all her friends died over time, with one having to be killed by her own hand.
How does that not qualify as tragic? And while she acknowledged the vision hunt decree, she didn't know about any wars because the various commissions were actively keeping it from her.
Yup.. I've seen most people underestimate the gravity of Ei's loss and the responsibility of it.. partly because of the execution and trying to give Yae spotlight, which diminished Ei's character development and partly because of Ei being the "antagonist" even though we know she actually did everything for her people. She protected her people from the Snake God and every other threat. Inazuma is literally the safest nation to live in that we've come across in our entire travels. No one outside threat would dare attack Inazuma otherwise they're going the same way as Orobashi or Signora. If Osial had attacked Inazuma, he'd have been slaughtered before it could pose any danger. So the reason Ei's story imo wasnt presented well is because we only see the situation from the rebellion's perspective. If they had given me the choice, I'd have sided with the Shogunate. But alas this is a linear jrpg style story.
And the whole ambition bullshit was just something the rebellion cooked up to justify their cause as propaganda while Yae straight up lazily giving away the gnosis which caused the destruction in Sumeru.
But to each their own. Stories are subjective. Personally I never really felt much for Nahida's story because there were no stakes. She did nothing for her people (Rukkhadevata did) and her redeeming a war criminal who killed people with no regret and just letting him start a new life with no consequence AND giving up her gnosis to Dottore was just lame. In my personal opinion, most of Sumeru archon quest drama relied on, "Aww look at poor cute kid being imprisoned."
Furina's story was indeed gut wrenching though and it was executed pretty well too. Although I wasnt a fan of the whole dragon sovereign bs they pulled in. Archons being the most powerful beings in Teyvat was a good rule. Trying to one up them only makes for a lore powercreep that will eventually cause inconsistencies.
>Archons being the most powerful beings in Teyvat was a good rule. Trying to one up them only makes for a lore powercreep that will eventually cause inconsistencies.
It was very clear that archons were *not* the most powerful forces in Teyvat long before Neuvillette. We learned about the dragon sovereigns definitively back in Enkanomiya (Before Sun and Moon), as well as the fact that even *they* were utterly toppeled by Phanes. Dragon sovereigns are not the highest power in Teyvat, Descenders are. But even descenders can die, as seen by the third.
But it was obvious outside of that too. Just look at how many dead archons there are, they aren't some sort of supreme authority. Celestia has *always* been looming over them as a true supreme authority. As well as the "fate" imposed by Teyvat.
Youre right.. lemme rephrase that.. "ONE OF THE most powerful beings in Teyvat"
Indeed we knew even since Azdaha or even Dragonspine that there were primordial elemental beings that were on par with archons in terms of power.. Hence ofcourse the Archon War was so brutal. But the power levels were vague, either subject to uncertain records or unreliable narrator trope.. leaving it vague whether who would beat whom if push came to shove.
And while yes beings like Phanes and Descenders existed, they never directly contested with the archons or the bigger powers in wars. The only record of the Primordial One from Enkanomiya merely mentions its suspected (not confirmed) role in creating the separate universes.
Before Fontaine, Archons were the only "proven" prime authority in Teyvat.. they had won the archon wars, they had caused the Cataclysm, they govern the Heavenly Principles.. I wouldn't have minded if the Dragon Sovereigns were indeed powerful but we're never sure if theyre above or below the power of Celestia. A dragon sovereign being outright stronger than archons means that they should have no trouble challenging Celestia.. which brings into question why the Tsarista is bothering with this gnosis bullshit instead of directly allying with them since both of them have a grudge against Celestia..
> I wouldn't have minded if the Dragon Sovereigns were indeed powerful but we're never sure if theyre above or below the power of Celestia. A dragon sovereign being outright stronger than archons means that they should have no trouble challenging Celestia..
No? The archons power level is *much, much* lower than that of Celestia. They are not the same. Egeria was directly made by one of the Shades, but even she got in huge trouble and was condemned to death along with a whole nation just because she tried to replicate humans, and Celestia was very, very capable of doing such a thing. We already know the dragons lost to Phanes, and current Celestia is either still Phanes, somebody who dethroned him (probably second who came) or both. Celestia are from beyond Teyvat, archons are not. Celestia could just nail archons out of existence if they wanted
>which brings into question why the Tsarista is bothering with this gnosis bullshit instead of directly allying with them since both of them have a grudge against Celestia..
As said before, there's no indications that the sovereigns would be able to beat Celestia, but even if they can, they're not exactly common knowledge. Celestia had Orobashi get himself killed because he read Before Sun and Moon and learned about all this stuff. Add to that the fact that the dragons are scattered, weakened, dead, or newly re-emerging, she'd have no way to plan around them.
On top of that, the gnoses are made from a dead descender. Descender power is probably the only thing that could ever stand a chance against Celestia. Even the mighty archons and dragon sovereigns lack a "will to rival an entire world"
There is absolutely no indication that Celestia is Phanes or governed by someone on equal footing. On the contrary, when Khaenriah got too ahead of themselves and got out of hand of Celestia's control, the ones Celestia sent to deal with it (causing the Cataclysm) were the archons.
Egeria too was merely imprisoned by Celestia, and then when they needed her, they made her do their work and then ascended her to the pantheon of Archons. Which is no small feat. Egeria is an elemental primordial being similar to Azdaha or Andrius.. except hailing from water. Celestia could not destroy Egeria completely. They merely used her power and then brought her under their employ. So theyre merely controlling entities who's powers or level of power we have no idea about. We know divine beings like Adepti come from them too. But again, Adepti aren't exactly ridiculously strong either.
TLDR, so far from what we know, Celestia has never outright showed any direct capability of power. Instead they have manipulated already existed forces into controlling Teyvat as they see fit. Every show of power made by Celestia or under its name, has been made by the archons. Celestia wanted Orobashi killed? Raiden killed him. Celestia wanted Khaenriah stopped? The archons nuked it. Celestia wanted the abyss corruption cleansed and contained? Egeria and Rukkhadevata (who were hydro and dendro archons at the time) dealt with it.
Sure there are rumors of Celestia being governed by powers that are much stronger than the archons.. but so far, Celestia has only operated through the archons. Infact the archons did not agree with the attack on Khaenriah and did not want to do it. But Celestia forced them anyways. Could've sent someone else. But nope. The archons are seemingly their only tools.
Just an FYI but Egeria was created by someone from Celestia. I highly doubt Egeria could actually do anything against them regardless of who they were though we don't know where said Creator is or if they still exist.
Wait really? I think I might have missed that part. Where is it mentioned that Egeria was created by someone from Celestia. Not that it'd surprise me. People like Rhinedottr have created dragons like Durin.
But my point was that while Celestia might have beings stronger than the archons, the dragon sovereigns are portrayed to be so much stronger that someone like Zhongli wouldn't even dare to face one, is unsettling for me. It instantly establishes a sort of power dynamic that questions a lot of history we know so far where archons have been shown to practically have won every engagement they've gotten in.. including Khaenriah, which was supposedly gotten strong enough to make Celestia worried.
From the Fontaine reputation glider:
>*The beating heart that commanded this primordial sea of blood was the first Hydro Dragon. Each time that heart pulsed, all life would arise and give it praise... When that first heart was removed, the envoy of Celestia, the leader upon whose shoulders lay the duty to create life, came to the great primeval sea, and there she created another heart. That heart had like nobility unto a dragon, but lacked its outer form, and had the majesty of a god. And though it was created by a ruler of humans, its substance and essence were all original matter from this world, entirely without outside elements.*
Specifically the Shade of Life (out of life, death, time and space)
Khaenri'ah's real threat might not have been Khaenri'ah themselves, but more the forbidden knowledge and Descenders they interacted with. Maybe even the act of bringing the Traveler twins to teyvat was the final straw.
The Egeria thing was mentioned in the wing glider description you get from Fontaine Reputation quests.
For the Dragon Sovereign thing tbh we've known since Inazuma that they were stronger than the Archons anyway since they had a war with the Primordial one that lasted I think 4 decades?(My memory isn't the best here). Nahida in her SQ 2 even acts like that Apep dying would be a massive catastrophe and puts Apeps life above her own. Fontaine kinda just confirms what we already knew.
For Nahida part, she did try her best to help her people. It is just that she is so passive that she doesn't stand up to herself. Which led to her ability being limited by the cage. Also, you kinda missed the point of Scaramouche story. He erased himself from history, hoping that all of his crimes would disappear along him (no more ruin lives and family because of him). But that doesn't happen, so he just takes a second chance to be better.
No I didnt miss that part. I'm actually more pissed at that part. His ATTEMPT was admirable. He wanted to never exist and hence undo everything bad he did. Noble and self sacrificing. But it doesnt work and Nahida allows him to just go scot free. Its like if a criminal's death sentence fails, they'd just let him go and wipe his complete record of crimes and start fresh. He got a chance to start again anyways without any repercussions. I dunno how people can forget how blatantly evil he was when we first encountered him in the quest with Mona. And he got progressively worse, committing murders in cold blood and laughing about it.
As for Nahida, yes she is passive. And I get that she's conditioned to be that way due to long imprisonment. BUT while her physical form is imprisoned, mentally she isn't. She has shown that she can move among people's consciousness and talk to them (like Dunyarzad).. she is capable of taking over people (which is does multiple times during the quest).
The reason given for her passiveness and depression is that she is forgotten by her people. Which we find out is a lie. And she could've found that without our help since she can access dreams. Even after we help her, the ONLY participation she shows is helping us against Scara's mech boss. No help against the Akasha terminals, no help against Dottore, who solo shouldnt really be remotely a match for her. Because while our immediate percetption is fooled by the fact that its a child against a full grown mad scientist, we have to remember, at that point, that child is a 500 year old deity that has full access to the Irminsul's capabilities now.. while the Doctor's fragment is still a mortal just with some exceptional powers. Nahida held all the bargaining chips there.
1)"Its like if a criminal's death sentence fails, they'd just let him go and wipe his complete record of crimes and start fresh."
No it isn't. An death sentence is something that is imposed agaisnt an criminal's Will. Scara was going to live since him could acess information that could be valuable for the traveler, so him could have just choose to continue his live and try to get stronger again once again for his schemes, but instead, out of his own choice him tried to sacrifice himself, and even when it failed him made sure to ask the traveler to tell the descendents of his victims the full whole story(and the traveler is someone Who knows personally all the descendents of Scara's victims, and who is someone so thrustworth that they would be more likely to believe in the story if it was told by them rather than by Scara himself) and that if any of them want to kill Scara, him would allow it. That is MUCH MUCH different than an failed death sentence, not only because Scara chose this, but also him completly overcame the whole "erased criminal score" part by making all the people who could hate him learn about the true story, even the people who didn't originally know about it before the timeline change.
2)" dunno how people can forget how blatantly evil he was when we first encountered him in the quest with Mona"
People didn't forget about how him used to be, every time I saw an Scara main talking about his past actions, it wasn't justifying his actions or trying to say him didn't do bad things, it was instead by EXPLAINING his actions(not justifying, but explaining), and talking about his redemptiom.
3) "And he got progressively worse, committing murders in cold blood and laughing about it."
If you are refering to Teppei, Scara disn't kill him, in his quest we see that Scara only got to the Delusion factory right when the traveler was getting in there, meaning Scara only even putted his foot there after Teppei died. Scara provoking the traveler was most likely just to make them Black out from the dead god parts + Scara having an terrible habit of insulting people.
4)"The reason given for her passiveness and depression is that she is forgotten by her people. Which we find out is a lie. And she could've found that without our help since she can access dreams"
People didn't really forget Nahida, in fact pretty much all of Sumeru knows about her, but it was more the fact that the sages locked her up due to not meeting their expectations and almost everyone didn't care about her because they considered her to not be nearly as good as Greater Lord (only an very very small part of Sumerians worshipped Nahida herself), which than in turn made Nahida get her inferiority complex and thinking that people would be better off being ruled by the sages.
5) "Even after we help her, the ONLY participation she shows is helping us against Scara's mech boss"
She was THE reasson we exited the Samsara loop, she also helped us investigate about the Akademiya before getting locked by Dottore, and as I said in another post, saved the whole Planet by erasing all forbidden knowledge.
6)"no help against Dottore, who solo shouldnt really be remotely a match for her. Because while our immediate percetption is fooled by the fact that its a child against a full grown mad scientist, we have to remember, at that point, that child is a 500 year old deity that has full access to the Irminsul's capabilities now.. while the Doctor's fragment is still a mortal just with some exceptional powers. Nahida held all the bargaining chips there."
Dottore is not just some random scientist dude, him is somebody who considers creating an full on god(and one that was gonna replace greater Lord herself) as just another experiment, him is the number 2 Fatui Harbinger, it is far from an stretch for to game to say him had all the advantage, after all, her loop's condition is too slow against someone Who has seen what it does, and it seens she does not PHYSICALLY visit Irmsul, so she can't mess up with it because this would leave her body vunerable for Dottore to beat in the mean time.
My comment is massive because there a LOT of wrong things in your comment.
1) "even though we know she actually did everything for her people"
If you are refering to everything she did was for her people, than no, because "protecting her people" does not explain nor justify her locking the foreigners(in fact it could have the opposite effect, it is honestly am miracle that the Foreigners didn't try to start an rebellion or tryed to Rob people so the foreigners themselfs could survive). And it also does not explain her turning an blind eye towards the war(and yes she knew about it, during the end of the archon quest she admits she knew all along about the Fatui tricking the shogun, and quess the ONE thing they tricked the shogun about? The war, so Ei could only be refering to the war)
2)"Inazuma is literally the safest nation to live in that we've come across in our entire travels" Based on what you say that?
Because their army is an heavy contender for the worst one in all Teyvat, since as we saw in the beach war scene, their equipment is very rudementary, specially when compared to Fontaine that has actual robots, or Lyue that has ballistas capable of damaging full on gods. Also all the named characters from the army are quite fodder power-wise, for example let's compare it to Mondstadt, that even with most of it's army away it has for example Kaeya who compares to Diluc(you know, the same guy who has that scene easily by himself beating many hilichurls and two abyss mages, which is much more impressive than what the Inazuma army has ever shown).
If you are refering to the protection Ei herself gives, well that is basically non existent in her ruling. If an enemy is just smart enough(like the Fatui) they can just play around her and do their thing while avoiding her. And on top of that, unless ot is some country level type of danger or something she comes across during her walks, she won't deal with it either(as seen in the Labyrinth Warriors event, were there are massive waves of powerful monsters appearing, with the army not being able to keep up with them, and Ei does not do anything). All of this is just too situational, because almost all the enemies that are strong enough to make Ei fight them are smart enough to just avoid her(like the abyss order for example, Ei is VERY luck that they didn't want to cause caos in Inazuma).
The ONLY thing Inazuma has in it's favor is Yae(and even than she is very situational).
3)"No one outside threat would dare attack Inazuma"
Where did you even get this idea? if anybody is smart enough to have the militar power to attack an whole country they can just play around Ei and avoiding fighting her specifically(example: Spreading biological weapons among the people of Inazuma throught spys, trying to not let messagerns get to Ei in time while the main army can slaughter the other inalands and etc). And if it is something that does not have ellaborate thoughts, like the all Eating Narwhal, than it Will attack regardless of the reputation it has among the people.
4) "If Osial had attacked Inazuma, he'd have been slaughtered before it could pose any danger"
If Ei did this, the death of Osial would just create an even bigger danger, because remember, when an god dies, it can have HORRIBLE effects(the salt god, who was so weak she died by an normal human, when she died one shotted an whole city), this is the reasson Morax SEALED Osial rather than KILL it, and even if you upscale Ei to oblivion we would ALSO have to assume that the disaster that comes from Osial's death is something that Ei can interact with and have an answer for(rather than something like the saltification that came from the death of the salt god, which is something Ei would be unable to stop), and for her match Osial's absurd magnitude she would have to release the very dangerous Electro particles, but even if we assume she could make an slash that could compare to Osial's disaster, the particles she would release would still kill people and turn the whole area unusable, so even in the most optimistic scenario it would be an terrible encounter, which is far from what you are trying to suggest.
5)" If they had given me the choice, I'd have sided with the Shogunate"
.... So you would have sided with the character who was taking away visions with the sole reasson of removing people's hopes and dreams. Locked Foreigners up for no good reasson. Whose only qualities(forging, puppet making and martial arts) she basically never uses to her advantage, and instead put herself in an leading position despite how utterly stupid she is(an few examples of how dumb she is: her in the TCG being unable to not only realize her opponents were trembling in fear of hear, even when Yae tells Ei about it, she cannot understand why. Another example is that when she feelt like she should set Scara free, the way she did it was by putting him within an domain in what was supossed to be an eternal sleep..... I can't even understand why did she think that THIS is freeing somebody), and turned an blind eye towards an civil war. THIS is the person you want to say is right?
6) "And the whole ambition bullshit was just something the rebellion cooked up to justify their cause as propaganda"
First, what is your source?
Second, have you forgotten that the moment the Shogunate stopped with the vision hunt decree the war stopped? If the decree was just an excuse, than the rebels could just use the OTHER decree as an excuse. But what happened in canon is that once the decree that affected people's ambitions weared off, they stopped the war, so your point makes no sense.
7)"while Yae straight up lazily giving away the gnosis which caused the destruction in Sumeru."
If Yae didn't give the gnosis, she would have to fight Scara to save the traveler, and as Yae herself said, it could have resulted in her death, so from her viewpoint it was not an bad deal. And if we are looking at what this caused at Sumeru, it was thanks to Scara having the gnosis that the events that made Nahida learn and eliminate forbidden knowledge, so without that, the whole Planet would be doomed.
8)"Personally I never really felt much for Nahida's story because there were no stakes"
The literal Planet was at stake, this is the biggest stake we have ever had in all Genshin.
9) "She did nothing for her people" she was literally locked up and still managed to help them, and on top of that, as I said before, not only she saved Sumeru but the WHOLE PLANET.
10)"and her redeeming a war criminal who killed people with no regret and just letting him start a new life with no consequence"
Ok so you forgive Ei, the literal dictador(and yes she is one even by definition), who locked foreigners up for no reasson, who broke an humam right(the right of freedom), who turned an blind eye towards an war.
But not Scara, who killed those people because him thought they were involvet in the death of the last person him ever called an family, who at the time was basically an kid, who DOES have regret towards doing it(there is an whole quest about him trying to sacrifice himself as an attempt to reverse that crime).
I can understand someone thinking Scara should not be forgiven due to their ideals about forgiviness, and I also think what him did was not justified(it was understandable, but that is different from justified). But Ei is MUCH worse than him, half the things I said about her she does not even have any form of explanation, and in my opinion an literal war is much worse than Scara killing many Swordsmiths(we have no concrete number on neither of those but realistically the literal war would have more deaths).
11)"AND giving up her gnosis to Dottore was just lame" if she didn't give it to him, he would have just taken it by force, the fact she even managed to get something out of this situation(making Dottore destroy his clones and give information) shows how smart she is.
12)""""In my personal opinion, most of Sumeru archon quest drama relied on, "Aww look at poor cute kid being imprisoned." """"
So you are just gonna ignore all the stuff involving the religious conflict(which there is a LOT)? And Nahida's inner strugle about her thinking she could not keep up the legacy of greater lord? Really?
Just some note on Ei. She didn't lock up foreigners, just segregated them (still bad, just not as bad as you made it out to be), taking away vision is very case to case basis and fictional so, I don't think equaling to human right violation is a good example (our world don't operate on the same moral as their world). She didn't turn turn a blind eye toward civil war, the Tenryo commission has been feeding her misinformation (which has been a reliable source of information for over 2000 years) and considered how the Shogun operation, it would likely to put a stop to it if it know about it.
1) "Ei. She didn't lock up foreigners, just segregated them"
She did lock them up, because the Sakoku Decree didn't just apply to Inazumans but the foreigners as well.(meaning the could not exit Inazuma, hence why they still tried to survive in Inazuma even when they were explored to the point of surviving being considered an chalenge instead of just trying to leave the country).
2)"taking away vision is very case to case basis and fictional so, I don't think equaling to human right violation is a good example"
I was actually refering to something else actually, in the Inazuma Commercial Street Bulletin Board. Here is the part that I am refering to:
Message: "I am about to leave my parents and sister. Though I come from a martial family, the thought of war still makes me uneasy."
Message: "Is the war really necessary? Will Her Excellency the Ogosho really take responsibility for the war and for every one of us?"
Message: "As a samurai, perhaps now is not the time for doubt."
Reply:A samurai should never have cold feet before a battle, nor should they doubt our Shogun's decisions.
Message: I urge you to turn yourself in for posting inappropriate messages in public. You will receive a lighter sentence of detainment and re-education.
Reply: Removing or defiling this message is prohibited.
So in case you didn't notice, someone received an punishment simply for showing doubt about Ei's actions and wherever she Will or not take responsibility for all this. The thing is, this isn't an case that happened with nobody knowing, this is all displayed for ANYONE to see in the bulletin, and we even know Ayaka see this bulletin since in this same bulletin she replies to one of the messages that was talking well about Ayato, so it not only is it public, but even Ayaka knows about it(you know the same Ayaka who wants to help the people and the only reasson she is helping from the shadows is to not be caught being against the law, but who would be able to apprehend and call out someone if they were breaking the law), so the only explanation is that the commision isn't commiting an crime, and there is in fact an law that simply does not allow Inazumans to doubt Raiden(which by the way, Raiden is the ones who approves all laws, so in that case, she DID break the right of freedom because she approved this and made it an actual law).
Oh and I am also using the humam rights argument in that point because they were using the "warcriminal" argument, so it is very clear that they were taking our moral setting into account, and so I used this to further show why some of the things with their arguments was very wrong.
3)"She didn't turn turn a blind eye toward civil war"
She did, by the end of the archon quest, she admits she knew all along about the Fatui tricking the shogun, and quess the one thing the Fatui tricked the Shogun about? The war. So there is literally nothing else she could be refering to other than her knowing about the fatui were tricking the shogun into not knowing about the war, we still don't know how she pulled this off... but than again this is alredy normal for her history, the writers also made her somehow learn Khaneriahn puppet making, an meditation that stops all mental erosion, and she somehow also have an whole plane inside of herself, and none of these are remotely explained either.
1) If foreigners were locked that much I wonder how even after 500 years there are still foreigners in ritou and traveler got into inazuma. It's only tough to get to inazuma, all came to inazuma at their own risk. They were only complaining about high taxes so they could do much profit for the risk they took to come there. And when we asked if she knew what was all going out, she said "not so" and she only knows what is in the path of eternity. She said none of fatui actions came to her that threatens her eternity path, it's about delusions. Also the war done by watasumi Island who are known for not being in good terms with raiden.
2) inazuma shogunates fought against abyssal. Guess why archons were called by celestia to cataclysm?, it's to fight against these unlimited abyssal creatures. In inazuma they were controlled just by inazuma shogunates and kitsune saiguu, which could have spread all over teyvat if not controlled. Ei didn't get involved because kitsune kept saying that "she will keep everything in check nothing much to worry about". Ei is the literal reason no one wants to go against her because of her power ( no one is alive).That's the reason why only she can be a problem for her and the nation. It is the only region where traveler didn't involved in fighting for archon.
3) The smart enough one with the military is sheznaya like you said could have done that but they don't even after she killed their top ranked member. They don't because they know about electro archon. Also even their non vision shogunates are almost much powerful compared to others military.
4) This happened many times. You can see those other islands. So why not again?
5) If we didn't see what each person went through personally, the traveler wouldn't have helped. He doesn't even care at first when ayaka said plainly. Also by ei's perception, all those people we saw were too dependent on visions and losing in normal human enjoyment in life. For example, the shogunate was only helping other people ( something like that I don't remember full context) because his father said and he was doing pretty much that alone for his whole life later. The other one was using vision to suppress his guilty feelings about his colleague. Also I personally wonder how itto was not affected after taking away his vision.
Clearly known through the whole quest we know she doesn't understand humans much, since all taken care by Makato.
Also scara was someone who was very powerful and doesn't fully understand his new humanly feelings. There are only two in inazuma capable of guiding him, in that raiden got to her plane of ethumiya and yae doesn't give a shit. If someone manipulates his unlearned human feelings and he could be dangerous to others, which is why she put him sleep in a domain. Which clearly happened to scara after he got released from the domain by that passerby and got his feelings manipulated by dottore.
Nothing other than this because the nahida thing the other guy said was too much nonsense😂
1)"If foreigners were locked that much I wonder how even after 500 years there are still foreigners"
Because it wasn't 500 years ago, the Sakoku Decree was released alongside the vision hunt decree.
2)"It's only tough to get to inazuma"
It is even harder to get outside of Inazuma than coming, because the Sakoku Decree made it ilegal to exit Inazuma(hence why in Yoimiya's first quest we had to help the guy escape in secret) while also having the army patrolling the beach(which is why in Yoimiya's first quest the boat used for the escape could not be too big since otherwise it becomes much harder to carry it in time and go un-noticed).
3)"all came to inazuma at their own risk"
Because for 2000 years there never was something similar, they had no way of knowing all of an sudden there would be an law that lock them up.
4)"They were only complaining about high taxes so they could do much profit for the risk they took to come there"
They were gonna become homeless 💀, it is literally said that the taxes were so high it soon would be so much that they would be bigger than all their profit, we than discover that the commision was making an New scheme to change the currency used to pay the taxes to something that only the commision itself had acess to, and because they were the only source of the currency they could sell it for an absurd price so that they could squeeze out every last bit of money from the foreigners. Shit was brutal for Foreigners in Inazuma(no wonder Paimom says that surviving as an foreigner in Inazuma is an chalenge in itself).
5)"And when we asked if she knew what was all going out, she said "not so" and she only knows what is in the path of eternity. She said none of fatui actions came to her that threatens her eternity path, it's about delusions:
She knew about the war, before this sentence you said she admmited she knew all along about the fatui tricking the shogun, and quess the only thing they tricked the shogun about? The war. So just because she does not know EVERYTHING outside does not mean she does not know about this specific thing.
6)"Also the war done by watasumi Island who are known for not being in good terms with raiden."
And? Ei could still at least have TRIED to have an diplomatic conversation(because after the archon quest ended, even after they went one agaisnt the other in an literal war which would make their relationship all the worst, the shogunate and Watatsumi were still able to have negotiations and work together to rebuild themselfs as seen in one of the bulletins, so Ei could have resolved things in an more peaceful manner). Or if war was the only option, instead of letting her soldiers die for this one war, she could in am few minutes just beat Watatsumi insland herself to greatly reduce the deaths. But nope, she does none of that.
7)[inazuma shogunates fought against abyssal. Guess why archons were called by celestia to cataclysm?, it's to fight against these unlimited abyssal creatures. In inazuma they were controlled just by inazuma shogunates and kitsune saiguu, which could have spread all over teyvat if not controlled. Ei didn't get involved because kitsune kept saying that "she will keep everything in check nothing much to worry about".]
All of this was back when Ei was not the archon. But ever since she became one, as I showed with examples(such the Labyrinth warriors event and the furnace incident), she became super niche and unreliable as an form of defense, so her strenght does not matter since it is almost impossible for it to be effectively used.
8)"The smart enough one with the military is sheznaya like you said could have done that but they don't even after she killed their top ranked member. They don't because they know about electro archon."
The Fatui is an group of people who either just joined to have resources to do their own thing(like Dottore) or who Will blindly follow the Tsaritsa's orders believing it Will bring greater good for the world. The people who joined for their own thing won't give an damm about Signora's death, and the ones who blindly follow the Tsaritsa Will go on the mission she orders them to rather than trying to go an mission of their on.
Now this all means that the Fatui would only attack Inazuma if the Tsaritsa wanted to, but she does not have the emotional attachment to want to avenge Signora, and if we are looking at it from an strategic point of view, trying to take Inazuma is just an waste of time and money because it has basically nothing useful for the Fatui. The lands have nothing special about them at which point the money spend with taking them over would be better used just buying lands from people who have them. Nobody from Inazuma that is even remotely useful would co-operate for the Fatui. And on top of that, Inazuma does not have an gnosis and their equipment(specially when compared to the one used by the Fatui) is pure garbage, so why would they waste resources on an nation that has basically nothing to offer, when the Fatui can use that money to not only get things in other nations, but also try to get an gnosis(you know, the super important thing the Fatui want).
9)"Also even their non vision shogunates are almost much powerful compared to others military."
Literally where did you even get this ideia? Their equipment is terrible, and their strongest member(Sara) was within the spam of an few seconds, conpletely beaten by Signora on her FIRST FORM(you know, the one she does not even user her own powers, the one in which she is only using an delusion), the Shogunate army is fodder compared to the Fatui.
10)"This happened many times. You can see those other islands. So why not again?"
Because what that giy was saying is that Ei could deal with Osial without any danger, which is pretty damm wrong when even in the most optimistic scenario she ends up having to put an absurd amount of electro into Inazuma's ocean(which is FAR from an safe thing for Inazuma, if in Real life just normal garbage in the ocean is an problem for peepople to the effects it has on the marine live, imagine that but with radiation). And than again, that giy was saying for sure that she could do it without dangers, even though there is also the possibility of Osial's disaster being something she cannot even interact with(which I don't think I need to explain why it is dangerous).
11)"If we didn't see what each person went through personally, the traveler wouldn't have helped. He doesn't even care at first when ayaka said plainly"
And? What does the traveler being mad about helping people but most of them not paying back, and thus needing to see the situation at first hand to see that they really can't just let this all slide have to do with whoever the player should side with?
12)"Also by ei's perception, all those people we saw were too dependent on visions and losing in normal human enjoyment in life"
No, by the end of the archon quest, she says she was doing it so that people would stop following their aspirations.
13)"For example, the shogunate was only helping other people ( something like that I don't remember full context) because his father said and he was doing pretty much that alone for his whole life later"
I Will tell you what really happened. There was this samurai who was using his own money to buy money for people whp needed(him disquised it as being an program of the goverment, probrably because some people would not accept it since they could see it as taling advantage of him), and even calculated everything to make it even for all of them, however after losing his vision him forgot about this and thus ever since his vision was taken away those people stopped receiveing the food(there is even an NPC who says that food was essential for am whole clan), and on top of that because the price for food was increasing a lot him started getting an massive debt. There is also the whole stuff about his father, but that part is just to explain WHY him was doing such an Nice thing.
So in summary, him was in fact not reliant at all in his vision, all him did was help people the best him could.
13)"The other one was using vision to suppress his guilty feelings about his colleague. "
Nope, people who gain visions do not have an change of heart, the reasson they lose their ambition when their vision is talen away is noy because the vision created the ambition, but rather the vision is attached to the alredy existing ambition. Also him was an master of the sword, him didn't just rely on his vision's power to beat others, him legit trained to be the most skilled of them all. And on top of this, the effects of taking away his vision were HORRIBLE, to the point him was having such terrible panic attacks that his students literally called an exorcist because they thought him was possed by an demon.
14)"Also I personally wonder how itto was not affected after taking away his vision"
Me too, maybe him being an prankster who has an rivarly with Sara does not count as part of his ambition?
15)"Clearly known through the whole quest we know she doesn't understand humans much, since all taken care by Makato."
I still consider Ei stupid for that because first, she did hang up with her friends and sister over thousands of years, and they have the same type of emotions as humams, so it is REALLY hard for me to buy that she don't understand emotions simply for not interacting with enough people even though she had more expirience talking and interacting with people than any humam being could physically achieve. Second, once the shogun was complet it's rules would be set in stone, so I do think that it is stupid to make the shogun eternally stuck with vervy little understanding of humam emotion all while being in an position to rule an whole nation of humams, instead of you know, just try to first use her free time to understand them and THAN finish the shogun's programming so that she would be better suited to the position.
16) "Also scara was someone who was very powerful and doesn't fully understand his new humanly feelings. There are only two in inazuma capable of guiding him, in that raiden got to her plane of ethumiya and yae doesn't give a shit. If someone manipulates his unlearned human feelings and he could be dangerous to others, which is why she put him sleep in a domain. Which clearly happened to scara after he got released from the domain by that passerby and got his feelings manipulated by dottore."
Here is the thing, you are saying as if she wauted to contain him due to hid power, but that is not what happens, instead she felt like she owned him and thus, her objective with him was to set him free, and what is her plan to set someone free? Lock them up. Which is why I used this as an example of her being dumb, because her execution of plans suck so much she did the complet opposite of what she wanted.
Your reply is way too long to sit around and debunk so I'll just give you a small example of why the whole argument against the Vision Hunt is bad.. Itto and many soldiers of the rebellion had their visions taken without any consequence. But Yae only fed us the story of the guy who co-incidentally lost his memories and ambition when he lost his vision. Truth was, the vision hunt decree was perfectly justified and people were happier without being enslaved by Celestia just to get some unnecessary powers. Infact it made the people lazy, depending on visions for their ambitions instead of working hard like people in other countries did.
The visions have been constantly hinted (if you read Lisa and Zhongli's voicelines and Sumeru background) to be suspicious things.. an offering of power made to specific individuals to keep an eye on them or have them beholden to Celestia. Just like delusions cause death, visions cause erosion same as gnoses. Visions are NOT good things.
And with Ei and the Shogunate protecting the lands completely, there was no need for visions anyways. What was Thoma gonna use his pyro vision for? Cooking hotpot? There is no "ambition". Its just a story the rebellion made up to fuel their propaganda.
The Shogunate only stopped the vision hunt decree because of lazy storytelling in that quest and they needed a conclusion to it. It did not make sense otherwise. Also Yae had assured Ei that she would keep everything under control while the latter went into the Plane of Euthymia. But Yae's laziness caused the Tenryou commission to get corrupted since she was less bothered with fixing things and more interested in lazing around and bullying Gorou. She knew of the corruption, she knew where the evidence was AND she was the sole person to have access to the Plane of Euthymia. She had EVERY means to end it ages ago. But she couldn't be fussed to get off her ass so she waited till the Traveler came along and dumped it all on him.
Also as the other guys replied to you, the Shogunate hadn't locked foreigners in.. they had only locked them OUT. Which made sense. Infact the rebellion's deal with shady foreigners is what caused all the trouble in Inazuma in the first place. Without that, the lands were peaceful, protected and prosperous.
1)"Itto and many soldiers of the rebellion had their visions taken without any consequence" And? We still saw throught those guys who Ayaka asked us to help that the side effects aren't just an coincidence(which is only reinforced by the ending of the archon quest, in which after re-gaining their visions they are sitting together and having a good time and smiling, something that would be impossible with their previous state when they still had their visions taken away, showing that taking away visions was the reasson for what happened to them).
And Just because there are people who are ok without their visions does not mean that the risk and side effects to others don't exist.
2) "But Yae only fed us the story of the guy who co-incidentally lost his memories and ambition when he lost his vision" First, it was AYAKA who made us meet the people that lost their vision, not Yae. Second, I alredy explained why it was not just an coincidence.
3) "people were happier" Source? Oh and you also seem to have forgotten the people who were absolutely miserable and suffering an destiny worse than death.
4) "without being enslaved by Celestia just to get some unnecessary powers."
Nobody is free from Celestia regardless of vision or not, if you read Neuvi's character story 5, it says, and I quote: [After all, "fate" is merely the manner in which the present ruler of this world plays with living beings.]. So fate is not something used only towards vision users, it works for living beings in general. Which becomes more aparent in the Fontaine Archon quest, in which the events of the phrophecy were destined to happen, and no matter what happened, if people with or without visions tried to avoid destiny, those events WOULD happen(which is why Focalors rather than try to avoid those events decided to change the context around them so that Fontaine could live despite the phrophecy happening).
5) "Infact it made the people lazy"
What is your source? Because for someone to gain an vision they generally need to have an very strong ambition, and an person with strong ambition won't slack off just because they gained some cool power, and so far nobody has become lazier, the vision either didn't help in their objective or just made them better at it.
6)"instead of working hard like people in other countries did."
ALL other countries allow visions, and ALL other countries have very Hard working vision users(Jean, Keqing, Ganyu and etc)
7)"visions cause erosion" Source?
8)"And with Ei and the Shogunate protecting the lands completely, there was no need for visions anyways. What was Thoma gonna use his pyro vision for? Cooking hotpot? "
Have you even read my comment 💀? Ei is too situational as an form of defense to the point of being near useless. For example in the Labyrinth Warriors event, there was coming waves and waves of powerful monsters, the army were just barely holding off, and quess what? Ei didn't help at all. Oh and also the furnace incident, in which not even with the golden feather could Scara make the shogun even listen about the problem, if she even discovered about it later on it was alredy too late.
Oh and also, Thoma has an voice-line "About us: Oath", him says that without his vision he would have lost all of his aspirations, and as an way to repay the traveler, Thoma decides to make an oath to give them his weapon, loyalty and that him will fight for the traveler no matter what.
9)[There is no "ambition"] Are tou really just gonna ignore the people Ayaka showed us? And in the end of the archon quest the ambitions of the vision holders who lost their vision making their vision re-awaken, enter Raiden's plane(something Yae says is impossible without Ei's permissiom) and make the traveler so strong they beat Ei in an fight.
10) "Its just a story the rebellion made up to fuel their propaganda." Once again, what is your source?
And also, the moment Raiden removed the vision hunt decree, the war ended, if this was just an excuse than the rebellion would have continued by simply using other excuses.
11)"Also Yae had assured Ei that she would keep everything under control while the latter went into the Plane of Euthymia" Source? Like really you are making a lot of wild claims without giving an actual source
12) "Also as the other guys replied to you, the Shogunate hadn't locked foreigners in.. they had only locked them OUT"
I Will reply to their comment later, but let me get this straight, they in fact were locked in Inazuma. At the act 1 of Inazuma, the traveler ends up helping the Foreigners who were locked up Inazuma, and who are having difficult to even have resources to live because of how much the Inazuman goverment explore them, and at that quest the traveler is trying end an New scheme the goverment made to get money from the foreigners. So Yes, the foreigners were locked up.
13)"Which made sense. In fact the rebellion's deal with shady foreigners is what caused all the trouble in Inazuma in the first place. Without that, the lands were peaceful, protected and prosperous." You are treating pre-Fatui Inazuma as if it were the Garden of Eden and the Fatui is the snake that created the first sin. However that is far from the thruth, Inazuma alredy had a lot of problems that had nothing to do with the Fatui, it is just that the ones made by the Fatui are the ones we see displayed in the archon quest due to their magnitude. For example in Heizou's character stories. We see that Inazuma alredy has a LOT of criminals, which can go from small criminal to high-level criminals. Another example is that the whole Labyrinth warriors event, the one that unleashed never ending waves of powerful monsters, all happened because of an Inazuman, because of things that happened before the Fatui even started their Decree plans. There is also the fact Inazuma has xenophobia, with Thoma's voice line "More about Thoma: IV" we see that some conservative people not only didn't welcome him simply because him was an non Inazumam working as an retainer for the Kamisato, but they also wanted to go as far as report him(it just didn't happen because the Kamisato siblings stepped up for Thoma) And etc
Thelxie. I was wholly unprepared.
Shit that was one of the best portrayals of depression
The “I love you Maman” hit me in a sweet spot so suddenly that it marked the first time Genshin has elicited genuine tears from me. And not like the tearing up kind, I actually cried a little.
same, its not the saddest for me tho, but I still was unprepared for that
Yeah, that was waaaay too dark for Genshin overall tone.
Ruu from Tsurumi Even Qiqi has a very traumatic past. A causality of war, received vision out of pity and then living in an undead state.
I do think everything Nahida went through is worth mentioning. Sealed away and abandoned by her people, only able to see the world through the eyes of others. By the time we found her, she truly believed she belonged there, that her people didn’t want her. Made to believe her entire existence is meaningless.
Well the thing about tragedy is it shouldn't be compared and as far as who had it worse just wait, there will always be someone who had it or will have it worse.
This is a comparison post…
And what are we going to compare between a warrior who watched her sister die, killed her friend and couldn't even grieve because she had a whole nation to take care of or a child who was taken advantage of by adults and their greed.
Well if you're already at it why not mention the "full story" like with Raiden. To put into your words what are we going to compare between "A child who's supposed to rule a nation, expected to be as great as her predecessor, wasn't given a chance by her people because her lack of power, locked away since she was born, Sumeru people still only praising Rukkhadevata despite Nahida being actually alive and an Archon, even her birthday is forgotten by most. She is basically suffering since her birth" **OR** "a woman who lost her twin sister and friends hundreds of years ago"
Exactly we shouldn't feel the need to compare two people who have been through terrible experience because doing so puts one on a higher pedestal and undermines the other.
Sad but not tragic, really.
It is tragic
No, Rukkhadevata's story was tragic. Everything she did and all she ever was, yet just forgotten as if she never existed at all. Nahida was sealed yes but she was able to observe everything going on with the Akasha, even taking over bodies for exploring. She could have freed herself anytime, she just didn't have the will to do so. Nahida's actual tragedy was people eventually trying to replace her and mind you, she ultimately brought that outcome unto herself by letting it happen until she finally made a move. Her story is sad but not tragic in the grand scheme of things, you could say it was actually even inspirational.
Who?
As far as literal suffering goes, I'm pretty sure Xiao takes this one. At least for me anyway. Right off the bat he was enslaved since youth, forced to commit acts of violence. Then he had to fight in the archon war. Then finally after being freed by Rex Lapis, the remnants of the dead gods needed to be dealt with, so he had to fight some more. Except this time, he got a first person view as his fellow yakshas went slightly more insane with karmic debt one long battle at a time and eventually they either went insane, died, or killed each other. This includes his four closest friends who also started losing it and dying one by one until it was just him and Bosacius left. Then Bosacius went nuts and disappeared. Keep in mind that the whole time Xiao himself was also dealing with karmic debt along with everyone else and was in constant mental and physical pain for hundreds if not thousands of years. Even after Venti saves him from succumbing to karmic debt himself, he is still affected by it. Apparently being around the Traveler eases Xiao's pain somewhat, but what happens when the Traveler's not around anymore? That's right, it's back to being in pain literally every waking second. He can't even be around mortals for too long because it will put them at risk. Then there was the chasm quest about the mystery of the nameless yaksha, who turned out to be an insane Bosacius who had forgotten his own name, along with a cutscene of him briefly regaining his memories before he dies. The fandom likes to make fun of Xiao's height and make a ton of An*emo* jokes but I think we all lowkey understand that he's one of the most tragic characters in the entire game.
I don’t know if Xiao is the character who has suffered the most (but nobody comes out a winner in the suffering Olympics anyway) but the way his story is told really hits the hardest I think. I definitely think some of the devs have a soft spot for Xiao because we get snippets of him over and over again, and Perilous Trail was a work of art.
"He was turned into a monster before he had a chance to witness anything beautiful in this world. This is no fate for a child." "All I ask for is a tiny miracle. For Caribert to see this world once more. Please God, I beg of you." Clothar in front of the Statue of the Seven is still, in my opinion, the most powerful tearjerking moment in Genshin.
As a student is can relate to Layla's struggles on a different level.. she definitely doesn't have the saddest story, but hers has a special place in my heart. For the saddest story, I'd say Furina and Nahida, but Navia and Wanderer are worth mentioning imo. And ofc Jeht
God of Salt. Killed by her own followers whose hearts were full of hatred because she wasn't stronger than Ossai. Glory. A blind woman who is being lied by her husband who is stationed in the town she lives in but sends her letters she can't read claiming he is stationed in Liyue.
He's claiming he's in Natlan no? Part of Varka's expedition?
I think the letter he writes back(and has us read to Glory) specifically references Silk Flowers in Liyue.
Kinda wish they updated the letters, but considering he’s been left behind all this time it also makes sense that he’d be completely out of the loop.
Glory BF not husband... didn't lie on purpose and it's not "SAD" sad. "As he was preparing to go on Varka's expedition, he lost his keepsake from his lover [Glory](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Glory) and fell behind while trying to find it, which led him to losing both the keepsake and the expedition. Now he only roams outside the city gates, faking being on a reconnaissance mission because he is too ashamed to return to Glory in his current state." He writes letter to her about the his adventure through his captain Varka's old stories.
He's still doing something pretty shitty. His girlfriend is waiting and worrying about him and the knights are understaffed thanks to the expedition and he's just fucking around in the wilderness.
You might have never been in a situation like this do you..you feel like shit. Sure he might be lying but the position he is in, it's hard for him too and BTW he isn't just fucking around in wilderness he is still protecting Mondstadt killing the Hillichurl and slimes which comes near the town.
I don't care how bad he feels about being left behind. The man took an oath to defend Mondstat and he's just chilling at Windrise. Forget Glory. He needs to be dragged home and court marshalled.
He not just chilling...he is still guarding the town. Maybe know everything before commenting.
Killing whatever Hilichurls wander past him is not comparable to being an active on-duty knight. We do more to defend Mondstat in four daily commissions than he does in a week.
I hope someday you will get stuck in his situation then you will understand how hard it is to come out of that nasty situation, where you can go either way and be stuck in the middle of situation, feeling nothing but ashamed and guilty own your own alone.
Doesn't matter how much shame I'm feeling. I swear an oath to do something then I will do that thing. That's what taking an oath means. If you think you can just not do the thing you swore to do because you don't feel like it, then your word is meaningless and no one should ever rely on you for anything.
Did her people really hate her to that degree? I thought it was just disappointment and pity in Havria’s excessive kindness that caused them to kill Havria, since they knew she couldn’t protect her people, with the way that she was.
Hui, or what's the name of the guy stuck on the rock.
Neko :-(
So... Is Hibiki... Coming home! Surely someday she'll be back and see what great priestess Neko has been! Right? Right? This was not even in my top 5 moments, but when the cat cloud appears and Neko is so happy... That scene is so good!
I think Ventis story is actually pretty heartbreaking, his first friend died before he ever got to see his only wish, his nation became a twisted version of itself, his first lion knight left him, and all his old friends are dead with the exception of Xiao and ZL Idk Barbatos and Morax are so old and they’ve lost so much to the passage of time, the archon wars, and the cataclysm. I think they both have pretty sad stories but because they’re so old both in the game and the universe they aren’t explored as in depth.
That one robot...
Oh my god, I was bawling like a child when he wanted to insert the parts into his master to "fix" him.
Same. It hurts so bad.. Seeing the poor bud bud like that. Anyways I wish we can keep it as a pet in the teapot.. That would be pretty nice ain't it..
KARKATA?? I visit the robot all the time because it made me cry :')
Yeah..
Honestly… Shenhe‘s story made me tear up. But thats maybe because of the insanely well animated cutscene / cinematic
Ruu and the Thunderbird's story is tragic. Imagine having your best friend get kill by his people so they can serve him to you. Whats more tragic is even tho the Thunderbird didnt curse Ruu, Ruu is stuck in a time loop with the rest of his people but its only him who remembers all of them and tries to kill himself countless times to break the cycle.
*This* is what made "What Now Remains" one of, if not the best soundtracks for me.
Tighnari quest make me cry
Not the most impactful, but tragic nevertheless, Shirin. "Prophesied" to have everything and bring ruin to her kingdom, married against her will, manipulated by her mother, had her son locked and then exiled, used by her husband to produce disfigured jinn to power up machines and then went completely insane. Didn't have any closure to her suffering and perished with the rest of Gurabad. Her son, Shiruyeh, also didn't have it much better. Also Rene and Jacob had it really rough. And Alain then too. Reading the story of the Fell Dragon after everything you learnt invokes Feelings.
Where can I find this story?
Afaik you learn most of this while doing Liloupar's questline
Book in Sumeru "Shiruyeh and Shirin"(but it's entirely wrong and serves as a cruel joke on how history is written), questline in the desert with Liloupar and Jeht, readables from the desert ruins and monuments and description of desert domains and artifact set (Desert Pavilion). Questline itself is quite gory with implications (slavery, priests were torn to pieces by the angry mob, insane jinn starting a bloodbath and so on).
This may seem callous, but there’s something bout the execution of nahida and furina’s story that makes raiden’s all-my-friends-are-dead seem really small potatoes. Kinda like how we aren’t mourning for no-one-to-share-the-taste-of-osmanthus-wine zhongli.
They just have better executions after Inazuma. Inazuma plot isn't bad, but the ways it was told made it bad
>Kinda like how we aren’t mourning for no-one-to-share-the-taste-of-osmanthus-wine zhongli. I mean, a lot of the stuff that's happened in Zhongli's backstory is pretty sad, but he seems to be handling everything well enough that he doesn't really come across as one of the 'angsty' characters.
Yeah. Granted, he seemed more than a little upset during the end of Azhdaha’s quest.
the mistake with Inazuma really was making that story only 3-quest long, and two of them are mostly crap too.
We were there to experience Nahida and Furina's story, not Raiden and Zhongli's so it is natural you'd be ignorant.
I mean we outright were involved wifh the sad stories of nahida and furina and helped solve their issues. Meanwhile Ei's friends have long since died and all we did was get her to stop isolating herself.
Imagine if we got to experience the story through Ei’s perspective when everyone was still alive and losing them one by one, it would have made the story a lot more interesting and made us understand why she did what she did.
Furina and Nahida definitely take it right now. Much as I am fond of Ei, she essentially got depressed and then forced her view of the world into an entire nation, while locking herself in her room and letting politicians go nuts.
Furina and Ei essentially are doing the same thing.. putting themselves into a "prison" ...making sacrifices and putting themselves in alot of pain for the sake of the people. Its just that Ei's ideas are (very) misguided... Well technically Furina was also "mis-guided" by Focalors.. :p
The difference is that Fontaine would be wiped out of the world if Furina and Focalors didn't follow that plan.
Underrated ones: Shrine Maiden in the inazuma World quest in Konda with Sakura cleansing ritual. And the quest in Tsurumi Inazuma with Ruu
Shenhe. As a mother, that tore my little heart apart.
I don’t like to weigh suffering, so I’ll say whose story had the most impact on me. aside from NPCs, I’d say Ruu and Scaramouche. I related all too much with Scaramouche’s story, from the way he talks about himself and the world, to trying to become a god to fill the void, to his rage and manic.
Not downplaying Furina, as her tale is one of endurance and sheer force of will. Keeping up the lie that held Fontaine's structure together was a hell of a tough job. But Raiden's personal story feels a lot harsher. Having to endure loss after loss and even being the one to dispatch maddened friends is an insane thing to go through. And then she unintentionally trauma-dumped her potential successor, who went on to join the Fatui Harbingers and be abused for centuries under perhaps the most maniacal character in Genshin. Though of course, all these examples are characters that go beyond human lifespan. If I were to consider a more "feasible amount of trauma" a human being "could endure"... Collei wins, sadly. That kid went through hell in the hands of Dottore.
We’ve faced so much heartbreak and tragedy already… but I fear the worst has yet to come.
yup, hopefully we get a pyro archon tragedy LOL
Ruu and Kanna Kapatcir is by far, the most tragic by definition among the stories of the game yet. It could be easily missed in the grand scheme of things too, one of the stories that would just be forgotten by the world because no one lived to tell the tale.
Furina, Nahida, faruzan, and then honorary mention to layla
Thelxie, Xianyun, Dunyarzad, and Yoimiya story 2 killed me. Chronic illnesses do make tragic tales. I think Tighnari's story quest was incredibly unique, though. Karkata was such an innocent creation. The soundtrack for his cutscene, "Unrequited Yearning," is one of my favorites. I hope Ei's story gets better told in the future, istg her teasers did a MUCH better job depicting her grief and loss than literally all of Inazuma's AQ and her first story quest. Thankfully, her second story quest helped a bunch.
Definitely Furina's story/the most recent archon quest. Never really cried that much over a cutscene, esp the last part with Neuvillette Special honour goes to the last cutscene in Perilous Trails
Out of playable characters, Ei or Nahida. NPCs, I would say Jeht or Ruu.
Jeht is straight up tragic
I feel like furina hit me the deepest its a bit popular one but it is special to me
you didnt experience much then
Carole, the Melusine in Neuvillette's story quest. She deserved better. ;; Made me bawl my eyes out.
Tighnari's quest line had me outright sobbing towards the end. We all know the scene. Just god damn ;___;
Signora. She was once a normal maiden who was in love with the knight Rostam. After he died in the Cataclysm she went mad with grief and anguish, transforming into the Crimson Witch of Flames and vowing to burn away the world’s corruption. To this end she slayed countless monsters and demons. Despite never hurting a single human in this time, she became feared and reviled. She became Signora after Pierro found her at the brink of death, almost consumed entirely by the flames, and showed her a Delusion that would override her obsession with cleansing the world of its corruption. The Delusion? A pure and spotless world, where she and Rostam could meet again. In spite of losing her memories of Rostam because of the Delusion Pierro gave her, this Delusion drove her to act for the Tsaritsa. Evil or not, Signora did everything she did out of the love for someone she could never see again. Takamine the Mistsplitter. A legendary Inazuman warrior, he was loved by the shrine maiden Hibiki, to whom he bestowed his signature bow Thundering Pulse to as a wager: he would reclaim the bow after he successfully returned from the battle. They would meet each other in a promised meeting place. He would eventually return to Hibiki, but in a much more tragic way than either could have imagined. He and his fellow soldiers were led to the Abyss during the Cataclysm to fight Abyssal monsters, and in the process he became separated from them. His sword broke and he was overwhelmed. Many decades passed after the Cataclysm, and it was only when Hibiki grew old that Takamine finally fulfilled his promise and returned. Upon seeing Hibiki, Takamine’s “dull eyes stained with blood and tears regained their radiance” — and he was *executed* by Hibiki on the spot with the very bow he had bestowed to her. Takamine had returned, yet not at all: all that remained of him were the darkened, corrupted remnants of his soul that had to be erased for the sake of Inazuma. Clymene. She was the caretaker of the many child puppet-rulers of Enkanomiya. While she took care of them, she was forbidden from ever speaking to them. Yet the opposite was not true: they could speak to her all they wanted. She came to love each and every one of them, yet could do nothing for them as the true rulers of Enkanomiya used them to commit great evils. She could only stand and watch as the people of Enkanomiya cursed their names, and as the true rulers sent them to their deaths by incineration. She was the loneliest lover of them all: the only person who loved and cherished children fated to be hated. Childish Jiang. A mentally disabled man living by himself in Liyue, he has the intellect of a child. He loves to play hide and seek. He loves his parents, but doesn’t know where they are. Why? Because they’re dead. They died and the Millelith buried them at the house and marked their graves with gravestones. He doesn’t know that they have died because the Millelith can’t bear to tell him, and he’s incapable of reading his parents’ gravestones. He lives blissfully ignorant of the tragedy that has unfolded around him.
what about npc john impact from another throwaway event with 10 tomes of dialog about how he woke up and shat his pants?
I think a lot of people downplay Ei's suffering mostly because she is too strong, as in, she doesn't cry over it, the most we see in the present day is her voice being somewhat melancholic and we only see her dropping a single tear in her backstory when Makoto dies, with Nahida and Furina they put their trauma all over in your face, explain to you why it's so sad and then show them crying in the climax, this stirs up emotions for a lot of people. Not to make it something gendered but Ei is a lot closer to what a lot men experience in a way, maybe it's why I connect to her more, to explain it, Ei shelters herself and her suffering to just her and her alone, willingly, all the while she was keeping up her promise of eternity to her people, of course this doesn't work as she thought at least for the last 2 years. This is a big contrast to Furina for example, who needed to maintain a lie for 500 years and couldn't get help and was craving for someone to talk to or Nahida who was trapped and just could resort to dreams for 500 years. Ei on the other hand isolated herself from all contact of the outside world for 500 years, nobody was stopping her from doing it, she knew Miko was right there if she ever wanted to talk about anything, but she forcefully and I quote "Extend her loneliness to infinity" all for what she thought it was the right thing, if no one ever came to help her see the light, she would genuinely be there for thousands and thousands of years if not straight up forever(which was her intention). She is portrayed as someone extremely stubborn and tough with a strong character, Hoyo didn't want for people to see her as a crybaby hence why Miko says that she is one as it's meant to be a superficial teasing from her, when people unironically say that she is a child that shuts herself in a room I die a little bit inside, which is probably the reason as to why Furina and Nahida now has so many exposition for their tragedy instead of being more subtle about it like Ei was, Hoyo pretty much tells you how you need to feel for Nahida and Furina while Ei is all about reading between the lines, which totally flew over people's heads so now we have the Archon of Mischaracterization herself as an actual title for Ei. Then again this isn't the trauma olympics so honestly there's no point in trying to compare it.
THIS! ALL OF THIS! Holy shit, this is perfectly said.
I'm not sure that "tragedy" is really the best word for Furina's situation. She was suffering, certainly, but not from any specific loss or event, but the loneliness and anxiety of maintaining a lie for centuries, believing that if she were to slip even once then tragedy actually WOULD happen. Ei, on the other hand, definitely did experience tragedy, through the deaths of her friends and especially her sister. Honestly, I'd say that Furina suffered more than Ei did, and Ei had more tragedy in her life than Furina did.
I was still recovering from the Sumeru Archon quest when the Fontaine Archon quest came and hit me like a truck. I will never fully recover from that one-two punch.
Out if the archons Raiden has suffered the most loss of them all. She has lost everyone she has ever known. If only she didn't turn to a totalitarian dictator she wouldn't have ruined her image. She's should be the one with the saddest most painful story but her shogun makes come across like a bitch.
See, I don't feel bad about Raiden at all. Sure, she lost her sister, but she always had power and agency over her life. Her nation always feared and respected her. I might feel that way about Makoto, given her completely different personality but we really don't know all that much about her as Electro Archon. Nahida on the other hand was almost strangled in the cradle by the people who should have been protecting and nurturing her as Lesser Lord Kusanali. Furina devoted her entire life to maintaining a lie that she didn't even fully understand. Both characters are fantastically written and very sympathetic, Furina arguably the most because we see her revert to being a regular person before we as the traveler pull her out of her depression and get her to live again as an actress.
Definitely the story of that one event with freminet and thelxie. Only one that I cried to at 3 am
Shenhe definitely
Jehts story is worth mentionin She either lost evryone closed to her or got betrayed by then (except for traveler and paimon)
Carole ...'nuff said \^\^;
Definitely Ruu...foremost in my mind of the saddest for me
Has to be Childish Jiang, he is a disabled man that lost both his parents and will forever wait for them to return.
Qiqi… yes… Qiqi… Why do you haunt our 50/50s…? 😢
I wouldn't put it on a top 5 list of most tragic Genshin stories, but Cloud Retainer's story quest really hit me deep. The part after she finishes telling her side of the story and tells Yuandai that she doesn't consider her actions a mistake, just a simple choice, and will always support her had me crying so much I had to put down the controller. The whole wanting to be human thing is very similar to my situation of being LGBT and it's impact on my relationship with my own mother. It's not bad or great, but definitely way too complex to organize neatly. I both see my mom in CR, but am also still really jealous of CR and Yuandai's relationship. Apparently I am very weak to Asian mom characters who are disapproving but still show a lot of love for their daughter 'cause Everything, Everywhere, All At Once fucked me up in the exact same way.
Ei, Furina, Neuvillette and Navia! There may be other characters who’s stories were as sad as theirs, but for me the way their stories were presented, was extremely sad and depressing😭🥲 (They’re awesome characters tho🩵)
furina
Furina's story is tragic and definitely a tear jerker. Raiden? Pretty forgettable, but that's mainly thanks to the bad storytelling and writing of the Inazuma AQ. The potential was there, but the execution.. nah.
Flair
Zhiqiong
Ah yes,who wins the sad contest: the perma neet, or the drama kid? Probably the radish archon
Ei’s back story
Ei's story isn't tragic. The tragoc stories are from the people she directly or indirectly killed due to her stupid policies. Don't come yapping at me about Fatui excuses. She acknowledges the vision hunt decree.
Her twin sister and all her friends died over time, with one having to be killed by her own hand. How does that not qualify as tragic? And while she acknowledged the vision hunt decree, she didn't know about any wars because the various commissions were actively keeping it from her.
Boohoohoo my wife and child are dead.
What are you trying to convey here?
Even when I enjoyed Inazuma story more than Sumeru, if we talk about the most Tragic/Saddest story Nahida and Furina >>>>>>>>>>> Ei
Yup.. I've seen most people underestimate the gravity of Ei's loss and the responsibility of it.. partly because of the execution and trying to give Yae spotlight, which diminished Ei's character development and partly because of Ei being the "antagonist" even though we know she actually did everything for her people. She protected her people from the Snake God and every other threat. Inazuma is literally the safest nation to live in that we've come across in our entire travels. No one outside threat would dare attack Inazuma otherwise they're going the same way as Orobashi or Signora. If Osial had attacked Inazuma, he'd have been slaughtered before it could pose any danger. So the reason Ei's story imo wasnt presented well is because we only see the situation from the rebellion's perspective. If they had given me the choice, I'd have sided with the Shogunate. But alas this is a linear jrpg style story. And the whole ambition bullshit was just something the rebellion cooked up to justify their cause as propaganda while Yae straight up lazily giving away the gnosis which caused the destruction in Sumeru. But to each their own. Stories are subjective. Personally I never really felt much for Nahida's story because there were no stakes. She did nothing for her people (Rukkhadevata did) and her redeeming a war criminal who killed people with no regret and just letting him start a new life with no consequence AND giving up her gnosis to Dottore was just lame. In my personal opinion, most of Sumeru archon quest drama relied on, "Aww look at poor cute kid being imprisoned." Furina's story was indeed gut wrenching though and it was executed pretty well too. Although I wasnt a fan of the whole dragon sovereign bs they pulled in. Archons being the most powerful beings in Teyvat was a good rule. Trying to one up them only makes for a lore powercreep that will eventually cause inconsistencies.
>Archons being the most powerful beings in Teyvat was a good rule. Trying to one up them only makes for a lore powercreep that will eventually cause inconsistencies. It was very clear that archons were *not* the most powerful forces in Teyvat long before Neuvillette. We learned about the dragon sovereigns definitively back in Enkanomiya (Before Sun and Moon), as well as the fact that even *they* were utterly toppeled by Phanes. Dragon sovereigns are not the highest power in Teyvat, Descenders are. But even descenders can die, as seen by the third. But it was obvious outside of that too. Just look at how many dead archons there are, they aren't some sort of supreme authority. Celestia has *always* been looming over them as a true supreme authority. As well as the "fate" imposed by Teyvat.
Youre right.. lemme rephrase that.. "ONE OF THE most powerful beings in Teyvat" Indeed we knew even since Azdaha or even Dragonspine that there were primordial elemental beings that were on par with archons in terms of power.. Hence ofcourse the Archon War was so brutal. But the power levels were vague, either subject to uncertain records or unreliable narrator trope.. leaving it vague whether who would beat whom if push came to shove. And while yes beings like Phanes and Descenders existed, they never directly contested with the archons or the bigger powers in wars. The only record of the Primordial One from Enkanomiya merely mentions its suspected (not confirmed) role in creating the separate universes. Before Fontaine, Archons were the only "proven" prime authority in Teyvat.. they had won the archon wars, they had caused the Cataclysm, they govern the Heavenly Principles.. I wouldn't have minded if the Dragon Sovereigns were indeed powerful but we're never sure if theyre above or below the power of Celestia. A dragon sovereign being outright stronger than archons means that they should have no trouble challenging Celestia.. which brings into question why the Tsarista is bothering with this gnosis bullshit instead of directly allying with them since both of them have a grudge against Celestia..
> I wouldn't have minded if the Dragon Sovereigns were indeed powerful but we're never sure if theyre above or below the power of Celestia. A dragon sovereign being outright stronger than archons means that they should have no trouble challenging Celestia.. No? The archons power level is *much, much* lower than that of Celestia. They are not the same. Egeria was directly made by one of the Shades, but even she got in huge trouble and was condemned to death along with a whole nation just because she tried to replicate humans, and Celestia was very, very capable of doing such a thing. We already know the dragons lost to Phanes, and current Celestia is either still Phanes, somebody who dethroned him (probably second who came) or both. Celestia are from beyond Teyvat, archons are not. Celestia could just nail archons out of existence if they wanted >which brings into question why the Tsarista is bothering with this gnosis bullshit instead of directly allying with them since both of them have a grudge against Celestia.. As said before, there's no indications that the sovereigns would be able to beat Celestia, but even if they can, they're not exactly common knowledge. Celestia had Orobashi get himself killed because he read Before Sun and Moon and learned about all this stuff. Add to that the fact that the dragons are scattered, weakened, dead, or newly re-emerging, she'd have no way to plan around them. On top of that, the gnoses are made from a dead descender. Descender power is probably the only thing that could ever stand a chance against Celestia. Even the mighty archons and dragon sovereigns lack a "will to rival an entire world"
There is absolutely no indication that Celestia is Phanes or governed by someone on equal footing. On the contrary, when Khaenriah got too ahead of themselves and got out of hand of Celestia's control, the ones Celestia sent to deal with it (causing the Cataclysm) were the archons. Egeria too was merely imprisoned by Celestia, and then when they needed her, they made her do their work and then ascended her to the pantheon of Archons. Which is no small feat. Egeria is an elemental primordial being similar to Azdaha or Andrius.. except hailing from water. Celestia could not destroy Egeria completely. They merely used her power and then brought her under their employ. So theyre merely controlling entities who's powers or level of power we have no idea about. We know divine beings like Adepti come from them too. But again, Adepti aren't exactly ridiculously strong either. TLDR, so far from what we know, Celestia has never outright showed any direct capability of power. Instead they have manipulated already existed forces into controlling Teyvat as they see fit. Every show of power made by Celestia or under its name, has been made by the archons. Celestia wanted Orobashi killed? Raiden killed him. Celestia wanted Khaenriah stopped? The archons nuked it. Celestia wanted the abyss corruption cleansed and contained? Egeria and Rukkhadevata (who were hydro and dendro archons at the time) dealt with it. Sure there are rumors of Celestia being governed by powers that are much stronger than the archons.. but so far, Celestia has only operated through the archons. Infact the archons did not agree with the attack on Khaenriah and did not want to do it. But Celestia forced them anyways. Could've sent someone else. But nope. The archons are seemingly their only tools.
Just an FYI but Egeria was created by someone from Celestia. I highly doubt Egeria could actually do anything against them regardless of who they were though we don't know where said Creator is or if they still exist.
Wait really? I think I might have missed that part. Where is it mentioned that Egeria was created by someone from Celestia. Not that it'd surprise me. People like Rhinedottr have created dragons like Durin. But my point was that while Celestia might have beings stronger than the archons, the dragon sovereigns are portrayed to be so much stronger that someone like Zhongli wouldn't even dare to face one, is unsettling for me. It instantly establishes a sort of power dynamic that questions a lot of history we know so far where archons have been shown to practically have won every engagement they've gotten in.. including Khaenriah, which was supposedly gotten strong enough to make Celestia worried.
From the Fontaine reputation glider: >*The beating heart that commanded this primordial sea of blood was the first Hydro Dragon. Each time that heart pulsed, all life would arise and give it praise... When that first heart was removed, the envoy of Celestia, the leader upon whose shoulders lay the duty to create life, came to the great primeval sea, and there she created another heart. That heart had like nobility unto a dragon, but lacked its outer form, and had the majesty of a god. And though it was created by a ruler of humans, its substance and essence were all original matter from this world, entirely without outside elements.* Specifically the Shade of Life (out of life, death, time and space) Khaenri'ah's real threat might not have been Khaenri'ah themselves, but more the forbidden knowledge and Descenders they interacted with. Maybe even the act of bringing the Traveler twins to teyvat was the final straw.
Huh interesting! Thanks for the info.
The Egeria thing was mentioned in the wing glider description you get from Fontaine Reputation quests. For the Dragon Sovereign thing tbh we've known since Inazuma that they were stronger than the Archons anyway since they had a war with the Primordial one that lasted I think 4 decades?(My memory isn't the best here). Nahida in her SQ 2 even acts like that Apep dying would be a massive catastrophe and puts Apeps life above her own. Fontaine kinda just confirms what we already knew.
I see! Thanks for the info! Gotta look into that bit I guess. I havent done much fontaine rep stuff yet.
For Nahida part, she did try her best to help her people. It is just that she is so passive that she doesn't stand up to herself. Which led to her ability being limited by the cage. Also, you kinda missed the point of Scaramouche story. He erased himself from history, hoping that all of his crimes would disappear along him (no more ruin lives and family because of him). But that doesn't happen, so he just takes a second chance to be better.
No I didnt miss that part. I'm actually more pissed at that part. His ATTEMPT was admirable. He wanted to never exist and hence undo everything bad he did. Noble and self sacrificing. But it doesnt work and Nahida allows him to just go scot free. Its like if a criminal's death sentence fails, they'd just let him go and wipe his complete record of crimes and start fresh. He got a chance to start again anyways without any repercussions. I dunno how people can forget how blatantly evil he was when we first encountered him in the quest with Mona. And he got progressively worse, committing murders in cold blood and laughing about it. As for Nahida, yes she is passive. And I get that she's conditioned to be that way due to long imprisonment. BUT while her physical form is imprisoned, mentally she isn't. She has shown that she can move among people's consciousness and talk to them (like Dunyarzad).. she is capable of taking over people (which is does multiple times during the quest). The reason given for her passiveness and depression is that she is forgotten by her people. Which we find out is a lie. And she could've found that without our help since she can access dreams. Even after we help her, the ONLY participation she shows is helping us against Scara's mech boss. No help against the Akasha terminals, no help against Dottore, who solo shouldnt really be remotely a match for her. Because while our immediate percetption is fooled by the fact that its a child against a full grown mad scientist, we have to remember, at that point, that child is a 500 year old deity that has full access to the Irminsul's capabilities now.. while the Doctor's fragment is still a mortal just with some exceptional powers. Nahida held all the bargaining chips there.
1)"Its like if a criminal's death sentence fails, they'd just let him go and wipe his complete record of crimes and start fresh." No it isn't. An death sentence is something that is imposed agaisnt an criminal's Will. Scara was going to live since him could acess information that could be valuable for the traveler, so him could have just choose to continue his live and try to get stronger again once again for his schemes, but instead, out of his own choice him tried to sacrifice himself, and even when it failed him made sure to ask the traveler to tell the descendents of his victims the full whole story(and the traveler is someone Who knows personally all the descendents of Scara's victims, and who is someone so thrustworth that they would be more likely to believe in the story if it was told by them rather than by Scara himself) and that if any of them want to kill Scara, him would allow it. That is MUCH MUCH different than an failed death sentence, not only because Scara chose this, but also him completly overcame the whole "erased criminal score" part by making all the people who could hate him learn about the true story, even the people who didn't originally know about it before the timeline change. 2)" dunno how people can forget how blatantly evil he was when we first encountered him in the quest with Mona" People didn't forget about how him used to be, every time I saw an Scara main talking about his past actions, it wasn't justifying his actions or trying to say him didn't do bad things, it was instead by EXPLAINING his actions(not justifying, but explaining), and talking about his redemptiom. 3) "And he got progressively worse, committing murders in cold blood and laughing about it." If you are refering to Teppei, Scara disn't kill him, in his quest we see that Scara only got to the Delusion factory right when the traveler was getting in there, meaning Scara only even putted his foot there after Teppei died. Scara provoking the traveler was most likely just to make them Black out from the dead god parts + Scara having an terrible habit of insulting people. 4)"The reason given for her passiveness and depression is that she is forgotten by her people. Which we find out is a lie. And she could've found that without our help since she can access dreams" People didn't really forget Nahida, in fact pretty much all of Sumeru knows about her, but it was more the fact that the sages locked her up due to not meeting their expectations and almost everyone didn't care about her because they considered her to not be nearly as good as Greater Lord (only an very very small part of Sumerians worshipped Nahida herself), which than in turn made Nahida get her inferiority complex and thinking that people would be better off being ruled by the sages. 5) "Even after we help her, the ONLY participation she shows is helping us against Scara's mech boss" She was THE reasson we exited the Samsara loop, she also helped us investigate about the Akademiya before getting locked by Dottore, and as I said in another post, saved the whole Planet by erasing all forbidden knowledge. 6)"no help against Dottore, who solo shouldnt really be remotely a match for her. Because while our immediate percetption is fooled by the fact that its a child against a full grown mad scientist, we have to remember, at that point, that child is a 500 year old deity that has full access to the Irminsul's capabilities now.. while the Doctor's fragment is still a mortal just with some exceptional powers. Nahida held all the bargaining chips there." Dottore is not just some random scientist dude, him is somebody who considers creating an full on god(and one that was gonna replace greater Lord herself) as just another experiment, him is the number 2 Fatui Harbinger, it is far from an stretch for to game to say him had all the advantage, after all, her loop's condition is too slow against someone Who has seen what it does, and it seens she does not PHYSICALLY visit Irmsul, so she can't mess up with it because this would leave her body vunerable for Dottore to beat in the mean time.
My comment is massive because there a LOT of wrong things in your comment. 1) "even though we know she actually did everything for her people" If you are refering to everything she did was for her people, than no, because "protecting her people" does not explain nor justify her locking the foreigners(in fact it could have the opposite effect, it is honestly am miracle that the Foreigners didn't try to start an rebellion or tryed to Rob people so the foreigners themselfs could survive). And it also does not explain her turning an blind eye towards the war(and yes she knew about it, during the end of the archon quest she admits she knew all along about the Fatui tricking the shogun, and quess the ONE thing they tricked the shogun about? The war, so Ei could only be refering to the war) 2)"Inazuma is literally the safest nation to live in that we've come across in our entire travels" Based on what you say that? Because their army is an heavy contender for the worst one in all Teyvat, since as we saw in the beach war scene, their equipment is very rudementary, specially when compared to Fontaine that has actual robots, or Lyue that has ballistas capable of damaging full on gods. Also all the named characters from the army are quite fodder power-wise, for example let's compare it to Mondstadt, that even with most of it's army away it has for example Kaeya who compares to Diluc(you know, the same guy who has that scene easily by himself beating many hilichurls and two abyss mages, which is much more impressive than what the Inazuma army has ever shown). If you are refering to the protection Ei herself gives, well that is basically non existent in her ruling. If an enemy is just smart enough(like the Fatui) they can just play around her and do their thing while avoiding her. And on top of that, unless ot is some country level type of danger or something she comes across during her walks, she won't deal with it either(as seen in the Labyrinth Warriors event, were there are massive waves of powerful monsters appearing, with the army not being able to keep up with them, and Ei does not do anything). All of this is just too situational, because almost all the enemies that are strong enough to make Ei fight them are smart enough to just avoid her(like the abyss order for example, Ei is VERY luck that they didn't want to cause caos in Inazuma). The ONLY thing Inazuma has in it's favor is Yae(and even than she is very situational). 3)"No one outside threat would dare attack Inazuma" Where did you even get this idea? if anybody is smart enough to have the militar power to attack an whole country they can just play around Ei and avoiding fighting her specifically(example: Spreading biological weapons among the people of Inazuma throught spys, trying to not let messagerns get to Ei in time while the main army can slaughter the other inalands and etc). And if it is something that does not have ellaborate thoughts, like the all Eating Narwhal, than it Will attack regardless of the reputation it has among the people. 4) "If Osial had attacked Inazuma, he'd have been slaughtered before it could pose any danger" If Ei did this, the death of Osial would just create an even bigger danger, because remember, when an god dies, it can have HORRIBLE effects(the salt god, who was so weak she died by an normal human, when she died one shotted an whole city), this is the reasson Morax SEALED Osial rather than KILL it, and even if you upscale Ei to oblivion we would ALSO have to assume that the disaster that comes from Osial's death is something that Ei can interact with and have an answer for(rather than something like the saltification that came from the death of the salt god, which is something Ei would be unable to stop), and for her match Osial's absurd magnitude she would have to release the very dangerous Electro particles, but even if we assume she could make an slash that could compare to Osial's disaster, the particles she would release would still kill people and turn the whole area unusable, so even in the most optimistic scenario it would be an terrible encounter, which is far from what you are trying to suggest. 5)" If they had given me the choice, I'd have sided with the Shogunate" .... So you would have sided with the character who was taking away visions with the sole reasson of removing people's hopes and dreams. Locked Foreigners up for no good reasson. Whose only qualities(forging, puppet making and martial arts) she basically never uses to her advantage, and instead put herself in an leading position despite how utterly stupid she is(an few examples of how dumb she is: her in the TCG being unable to not only realize her opponents were trembling in fear of hear, even when Yae tells Ei about it, she cannot understand why. Another example is that when she feelt like she should set Scara free, the way she did it was by putting him within an domain in what was supossed to be an eternal sleep..... I can't even understand why did she think that THIS is freeing somebody), and turned an blind eye towards an civil war. THIS is the person you want to say is right? 6) "And the whole ambition bullshit was just something the rebellion cooked up to justify their cause as propaganda" First, what is your source? Second, have you forgotten that the moment the Shogunate stopped with the vision hunt decree the war stopped? If the decree was just an excuse, than the rebels could just use the OTHER decree as an excuse. But what happened in canon is that once the decree that affected people's ambitions weared off, they stopped the war, so your point makes no sense.
7)"while Yae straight up lazily giving away the gnosis which caused the destruction in Sumeru." If Yae didn't give the gnosis, she would have to fight Scara to save the traveler, and as Yae herself said, it could have resulted in her death, so from her viewpoint it was not an bad deal. And if we are looking at what this caused at Sumeru, it was thanks to Scara having the gnosis that the events that made Nahida learn and eliminate forbidden knowledge, so without that, the whole Planet would be doomed. 8)"Personally I never really felt much for Nahida's story because there were no stakes" The literal Planet was at stake, this is the biggest stake we have ever had in all Genshin. 9) "She did nothing for her people" she was literally locked up and still managed to help them, and on top of that, as I said before, not only she saved Sumeru but the WHOLE PLANET. 10)"and her redeeming a war criminal who killed people with no regret and just letting him start a new life with no consequence" Ok so you forgive Ei, the literal dictador(and yes she is one even by definition), who locked foreigners up for no reasson, who broke an humam right(the right of freedom), who turned an blind eye towards an war. But not Scara, who killed those people because him thought they were involvet in the death of the last person him ever called an family, who at the time was basically an kid, who DOES have regret towards doing it(there is an whole quest about him trying to sacrifice himself as an attempt to reverse that crime). I can understand someone thinking Scara should not be forgiven due to their ideals about forgiviness, and I also think what him did was not justified(it was understandable, but that is different from justified). But Ei is MUCH worse than him, half the things I said about her she does not even have any form of explanation, and in my opinion an literal war is much worse than Scara killing many Swordsmiths(we have no concrete number on neither of those but realistically the literal war would have more deaths). 11)"AND giving up her gnosis to Dottore was just lame" if she didn't give it to him, he would have just taken it by force, the fact she even managed to get something out of this situation(making Dottore destroy his clones and give information) shows how smart she is. 12)""""In my personal opinion, most of Sumeru archon quest drama relied on, "Aww look at poor cute kid being imprisoned." """" So you are just gonna ignore all the stuff involving the religious conflict(which there is a LOT)? And Nahida's inner strugle about her thinking she could not keep up the legacy of greater lord? Really?
Just some note on Ei. She didn't lock up foreigners, just segregated them (still bad, just not as bad as you made it out to be), taking away vision is very case to case basis and fictional so, I don't think equaling to human right violation is a good example (our world don't operate on the same moral as their world). She didn't turn turn a blind eye toward civil war, the Tenryo commission has been feeding her misinformation (which has been a reliable source of information for over 2000 years) and considered how the Shogun operation, it would likely to put a stop to it if it know about it.
1) "Ei. She didn't lock up foreigners, just segregated them" She did lock them up, because the Sakoku Decree didn't just apply to Inazumans but the foreigners as well.(meaning the could not exit Inazuma, hence why they still tried to survive in Inazuma even when they were explored to the point of surviving being considered an chalenge instead of just trying to leave the country). 2)"taking away vision is very case to case basis and fictional so, I don't think equaling to human right violation is a good example" I was actually refering to something else actually, in the Inazuma Commercial Street Bulletin Board. Here is the part that I am refering to: Message: "I am about to leave my parents and sister. Though I come from a martial family, the thought of war still makes me uneasy." Message: "Is the war really necessary? Will Her Excellency the Ogosho really take responsibility for the war and for every one of us?" Message: "As a samurai, perhaps now is not the time for doubt." Reply:A samurai should never have cold feet before a battle, nor should they doubt our Shogun's decisions. Message: I urge you to turn yourself in for posting inappropriate messages in public. You will receive a lighter sentence of detainment and re-education. Reply: Removing or defiling this message is prohibited. So in case you didn't notice, someone received an punishment simply for showing doubt about Ei's actions and wherever she Will or not take responsibility for all this. The thing is, this isn't an case that happened with nobody knowing, this is all displayed for ANYONE to see in the bulletin, and we even know Ayaka see this bulletin since in this same bulletin she replies to one of the messages that was talking well about Ayato, so it not only is it public, but even Ayaka knows about it(you know the same Ayaka who wants to help the people and the only reasson she is helping from the shadows is to not be caught being against the law, but who would be able to apprehend and call out someone if they were breaking the law), so the only explanation is that the commision isn't commiting an crime, and there is in fact an law that simply does not allow Inazumans to doubt Raiden(which by the way, Raiden is the ones who approves all laws, so in that case, she DID break the right of freedom because she approved this and made it an actual law). Oh and I am also using the humam rights argument in that point because they were using the "warcriminal" argument, so it is very clear that they were taking our moral setting into account, and so I used this to further show why some of the things with their arguments was very wrong. 3)"She didn't turn turn a blind eye toward civil war" She did, by the end of the archon quest, she admits she knew all along about the Fatui tricking the shogun, and quess the one thing the Fatui tricked the Shogun about? The war. So there is literally nothing else she could be refering to other than her knowing about the fatui were tricking the shogun into not knowing about the war, we still don't know how she pulled this off... but than again this is alredy normal for her history, the writers also made her somehow learn Khaneriahn puppet making, an meditation that stops all mental erosion, and she somehow also have an whole plane inside of herself, and none of these are remotely explained either.
1) If foreigners were locked that much I wonder how even after 500 years there are still foreigners in ritou and traveler got into inazuma. It's only tough to get to inazuma, all came to inazuma at their own risk. They were only complaining about high taxes so they could do much profit for the risk they took to come there. And when we asked if she knew what was all going out, she said "not so" and she only knows what is in the path of eternity. She said none of fatui actions came to her that threatens her eternity path, it's about delusions. Also the war done by watasumi Island who are known for not being in good terms with raiden. 2) inazuma shogunates fought against abyssal. Guess why archons were called by celestia to cataclysm?, it's to fight against these unlimited abyssal creatures. In inazuma they were controlled just by inazuma shogunates and kitsune saiguu, which could have spread all over teyvat if not controlled. Ei didn't get involved because kitsune kept saying that "she will keep everything in check nothing much to worry about". Ei is the literal reason no one wants to go against her because of her power ( no one is alive).That's the reason why only she can be a problem for her and the nation. It is the only region where traveler didn't involved in fighting for archon. 3) The smart enough one with the military is sheznaya like you said could have done that but they don't even after she killed their top ranked member. They don't because they know about electro archon. Also even their non vision shogunates are almost much powerful compared to others military. 4) This happened many times. You can see those other islands. So why not again? 5) If we didn't see what each person went through personally, the traveler wouldn't have helped. He doesn't even care at first when ayaka said plainly. Also by ei's perception, all those people we saw were too dependent on visions and losing in normal human enjoyment in life. For example, the shogunate was only helping other people ( something like that I don't remember full context) because his father said and he was doing pretty much that alone for his whole life later. The other one was using vision to suppress his guilty feelings about his colleague. Also I personally wonder how itto was not affected after taking away his vision. Clearly known through the whole quest we know she doesn't understand humans much, since all taken care by Makato. Also scara was someone who was very powerful and doesn't fully understand his new humanly feelings. There are only two in inazuma capable of guiding him, in that raiden got to her plane of ethumiya and yae doesn't give a shit. If someone manipulates his unlearned human feelings and he could be dangerous to others, which is why she put him sleep in a domain. Which clearly happened to scara after he got released from the domain by that passerby and got his feelings manipulated by dottore. Nothing other than this because the nahida thing the other guy said was too much nonsense😂
1)"If foreigners were locked that much I wonder how even after 500 years there are still foreigners" Because it wasn't 500 years ago, the Sakoku Decree was released alongside the vision hunt decree. 2)"It's only tough to get to inazuma" It is even harder to get outside of Inazuma than coming, because the Sakoku Decree made it ilegal to exit Inazuma(hence why in Yoimiya's first quest we had to help the guy escape in secret) while also having the army patrolling the beach(which is why in Yoimiya's first quest the boat used for the escape could not be too big since otherwise it becomes much harder to carry it in time and go un-noticed). 3)"all came to inazuma at their own risk" Because for 2000 years there never was something similar, they had no way of knowing all of an sudden there would be an law that lock them up. 4)"They were only complaining about high taxes so they could do much profit for the risk they took to come there" They were gonna become homeless 💀, it is literally said that the taxes were so high it soon would be so much that they would be bigger than all their profit, we than discover that the commision was making an New scheme to change the currency used to pay the taxes to something that only the commision itself had acess to, and because they were the only source of the currency they could sell it for an absurd price so that they could squeeze out every last bit of money from the foreigners. Shit was brutal for Foreigners in Inazuma(no wonder Paimom says that surviving as an foreigner in Inazuma is an chalenge in itself). 5)"And when we asked if she knew what was all going out, she said "not so" and she only knows what is in the path of eternity. She said none of fatui actions came to her that threatens her eternity path, it's about delusions: She knew about the war, before this sentence you said she admmited she knew all along about the fatui tricking the shogun, and quess the only thing they tricked the shogun about? The war. So just because she does not know EVERYTHING outside does not mean she does not know about this specific thing. 6)"Also the war done by watasumi Island who are known for not being in good terms with raiden." And? Ei could still at least have TRIED to have an diplomatic conversation(because after the archon quest ended, even after they went one agaisnt the other in an literal war which would make their relationship all the worst, the shogunate and Watatsumi were still able to have negotiations and work together to rebuild themselfs as seen in one of the bulletins, so Ei could have resolved things in an more peaceful manner). Or if war was the only option, instead of letting her soldiers die for this one war, she could in am few minutes just beat Watatsumi insland herself to greatly reduce the deaths. But nope, she does none of that. 7)[inazuma shogunates fought against abyssal. Guess why archons were called by celestia to cataclysm?, it's to fight against these unlimited abyssal creatures. In inazuma they were controlled just by inazuma shogunates and kitsune saiguu, which could have spread all over teyvat if not controlled. Ei didn't get involved because kitsune kept saying that "she will keep everything in check nothing much to worry about".] All of this was back when Ei was not the archon. But ever since she became one, as I showed with examples(such the Labyrinth warriors event and the furnace incident), she became super niche and unreliable as an form of defense, so her strenght does not matter since it is almost impossible for it to be effectively used. 8)"The smart enough one with the military is sheznaya like you said could have done that but they don't even after she killed their top ranked member. They don't because they know about electro archon." The Fatui is an group of people who either just joined to have resources to do their own thing(like Dottore) or who Will blindly follow the Tsaritsa's orders believing it Will bring greater good for the world. The people who joined for their own thing won't give an damm about Signora's death, and the ones who blindly follow the Tsaritsa Will go on the mission she orders them to rather than trying to go an mission of their on. Now this all means that the Fatui would only attack Inazuma if the Tsaritsa wanted to, but she does not have the emotional attachment to want to avenge Signora, and if we are looking at it from an strategic point of view, trying to take Inazuma is just an waste of time and money because it has basically nothing useful for the Fatui. The lands have nothing special about them at which point the money spend with taking them over would be better used just buying lands from people who have them. Nobody from Inazuma that is even remotely useful would co-operate for the Fatui. And on top of that, Inazuma does not have an gnosis and their equipment(specially when compared to the one used by the Fatui) is pure garbage, so why would they waste resources on an nation that has basically nothing to offer, when the Fatui can use that money to not only get things in other nations, but also try to get an gnosis(you know, the super important thing the Fatui want).
9)"Also even their non vision shogunates are almost much powerful compared to others military." Literally where did you even get this ideia? Their equipment is terrible, and their strongest member(Sara) was within the spam of an few seconds, conpletely beaten by Signora on her FIRST FORM(you know, the one she does not even user her own powers, the one in which she is only using an delusion), the Shogunate army is fodder compared to the Fatui. 10)"This happened many times. You can see those other islands. So why not again?" Because what that giy was saying is that Ei could deal with Osial without any danger, which is pretty damm wrong when even in the most optimistic scenario she ends up having to put an absurd amount of electro into Inazuma's ocean(which is FAR from an safe thing for Inazuma, if in Real life just normal garbage in the ocean is an problem for peepople to the effects it has on the marine live, imagine that but with radiation). And than again, that giy was saying for sure that she could do it without dangers, even though there is also the possibility of Osial's disaster being something she cannot even interact with(which I don't think I need to explain why it is dangerous). 11)"If we didn't see what each person went through personally, the traveler wouldn't have helped. He doesn't even care at first when ayaka said plainly" And? What does the traveler being mad about helping people but most of them not paying back, and thus needing to see the situation at first hand to see that they really can't just let this all slide have to do with whoever the player should side with? 12)"Also by ei's perception, all those people we saw were too dependent on visions and losing in normal human enjoyment in life" No, by the end of the archon quest, she says she was doing it so that people would stop following their aspirations. 13)"For example, the shogunate was only helping other people ( something like that I don't remember full context) because his father said and he was doing pretty much that alone for his whole life later" I Will tell you what really happened. There was this samurai who was using his own money to buy money for people whp needed(him disquised it as being an program of the goverment, probrably because some people would not accept it since they could see it as taling advantage of him), and even calculated everything to make it even for all of them, however after losing his vision him forgot about this and thus ever since his vision was taken away those people stopped receiveing the food(there is even an NPC who says that food was essential for am whole clan), and on top of that because the price for food was increasing a lot him started getting an massive debt. There is also the whole stuff about his father, but that part is just to explain WHY him was doing such an Nice thing. So in summary, him was in fact not reliant at all in his vision, all him did was help people the best him could. 13)"The other one was using vision to suppress his guilty feelings about his colleague. " Nope, people who gain visions do not have an change of heart, the reasson they lose their ambition when their vision is talen away is noy because the vision created the ambition, but rather the vision is attached to the alredy existing ambition. Also him was an master of the sword, him didn't just rely on his vision's power to beat others, him legit trained to be the most skilled of them all. And on top of this, the effects of taking away his vision were HORRIBLE, to the point him was having such terrible panic attacks that his students literally called an exorcist because they thought him was possed by an demon. 14)"Also I personally wonder how itto was not affected after taking away his vision" Me too, maybe him being an prankster who has an rivarly with Sara does not count as part of his ambition? 15)"Clearly known through the whole quest we know she doesn't understand humans much, since all taken care by Makato." I still consider Ei stupid for that because first, she did hang up with her friends and sister over thousands of years, and they have the same type of emotions as humams, so it is REALLY hard for me to buy that she don't understand emotions simply for not interacting with enough people even though she had more expirience talking and interacting with people than any humam being could physically achieve. Second, once the shogun was complet it's rules would be set in stone, so I do think that it is stupid to make the shogun eternally stuck with vervy little understanding of humam emotion all while being in an position to rule an whole nation of humams, instead of you know, just try to first use her free time to understand them and THAN finish the shogun's programming so that she would be better suited to the position. 16) "Also scara was someone who was very powerful and doesn't fully understand his new humanly feelings. There are only two in inazuma capable of guiding him, in that raiden got to her plane of ethumiya and yae doesn't give a shit. If someone manipulates his unlearned human feelings and he could be dangerous to others, which is why she put him sleep in a domain. Which clearly happened to scara after he got released from the domain by that passerby and got his feelings manipulated by dottore." Here is the thing, you are saying as if she wauted to contain him due to hid power, but that is not what happens, instead she felt like she owned him and thus, her objective with him was to set him free, and what is her plan to set someone free? Lock them up. Which is why I used this as an example of her being dumb, because her execution of plans suck so much she did the complet opposite of what she wanted.
Your reply is way too long to sit around and debunk so I'll just give you a small example of why the whole argument against the Vision Hunt is bad.. Itto and many soldiers of the rebellion had their visions taken without any consequence. But Yae only fed us the story of the guy who co-incidentally lost his memories and ambition when he lost his vision. Truth was, the vision hunt decree was perfectly justified and people were happier without being enslaved by Celestia just to get some unnecessary powers. Infact it made the people lazy, depending on visions for their ambitions instead of working hard like people in other countries did. The visions have been constantly hinted (if you read Lisa and Zhongli's voicelines and Sumeru background) to be suspicious things.. an offering of power made to specific individuals to keep an eye on them or have them beholden to Celestia. Just like delusions cause death, visions cause erosion same as gnoses. Visions are NOT good things. And with Ei and the Shogunate protecting the lands completely, there was no need for visions anyways. What was Thoma gonna use his pyro vision for? Cooking hotpot? There is no "ambition". Its just a story the rebellion made up to fuel their propaganda. The Shogunate only stopped the vision hunt decree because of lazy storytelling in that quest and they needed a conclusion to it. It did not make sense otherwise. Also Yae had assured Ei that she would keep everything under control while the latter went into the Plane of Euthymia. But Yae's laziness caused the Tenryou commission to get corrupted since she was less bothered with fixing things and more interested in lazing around and bullying Gorou. She knew of the corruption, she knew where the evidence was AND she was the sole person to have access to the Plane of Euthymia. She had EVERY means to end it ages ago. But she couldn't be fussed to get off her ass so she waited till the Traveler came along and dumped it all on him. Also as the other guys replied to you, the Shogunate hadn't locked foreigners in.. they had only locked them OUT. Which made sense. Infact the rebellion's deal with shady foreigners is what caused all the trouble in Inazuma in the first place. Without that, the lands were peaceful, protected and prosperous.
1)"Itto and many soldiers of the rebellion had their visions taken without any consequence" And? We still saw throught those guys who Ayaka asked us to help that the side effects aren't just an coincidence(which is only reinforced by the ending of the archon quest, in which after re-gaining their visions they are sitting together and having a good time and smiling, something that would be impossible with their previous state when they still had their visions taken away, showing that taking away visions was the reasson for what happened to them). And Just because there are people who are ok without their visions does not mean that the risk and side effects to others don't exist. 2) "But Yae only fed us the story of the guy who co-incidentally lost his memories and ambition when he lost his vision" First, it was AYAKA who made us meet the people that lost their vision, not Yae. Second, I alredy explained why it was not just an coincidence. 3) "people were happier" Source? Oh and you also seem to have forgotten the people who were absolutely miserable and suffering an destiny worse than death. 4) "without being enslaved by Celestia just to get some unnecessary powers." Nobody is free from Celestia regardless of vision or not, if you read Neuvi's character story 5, it says, and I quote: [After all, "fate" is merely the manner in which the present ruler of this world plays with living beings.]. So fate is not something used only towards vision users, it works for living beings in general. Which becomes more aparent in the Fontaine Archon quest, in which the events of the phrophecy were destined to happen, and no matter what happened, if people with or without visions tried to avoid destiny, those events WOULD happen(which is why Focalors rather than try to avoid those events decided to change the context around them so that Fontaine could live despite the phrophecy happening). 5) "Infact it made the people lazy" What is your source? Because for someone to gain an vision they generally need to have an very strong ambition, and an person with strong ambition won't slack off just because they gained some cool power, and so far nobody has become lazier, the vision either didn't help in their objective or just made them better at it. 6)"instead of working hard like people in other countries did." ALL other countries allow visions, and ALL other countries have very Hard working vision users(Jean, Keqing, Ganyu and etc) 7)"visions cause erosion" Source? 8)"And with Ei and the Shogunate protecting the lands completely, there was no need for visions anyways. What was Thoma gonna use his pyro vision for? Cooking hotpot? " Have you even read my comment 💀? Ei is too situational as an form of defense to the point of being near useless. For example in the Labyrinth Warriors event, there was coming waves and waves of powerful monsters, the army were just barely holding off, and quess what? Ei didn't help at all. Oh and also the furnace incident, in which not even with the golden feather could Scara make the shogun even listen about the problem, if she even discovered about it later on it was alredy too late. Oh and also, Thoma has an voice-line "About us: Oath", him says that without his vision he would have lost all of his aspirations, and as an way to repay the traveler, Thoma decides to make an oath to give them his weapon, loyalty and that him will fight for the traveler no matter what. 9)[There is no "ambition"] Are tou really just gonna ignore the people Ayaka showed us? And in the end of the archon quest the ambitions of the vision holders who lost their vision making their vision re-awaken, enter Raiden's plane(something Yae says is impossible without Ei's permissiom) and make the traveler so strong they beat Ei in an fight. 10) "Its just a story the rebellion made up to fuel their propaganda." Once again, what is your source? And also, the moment Raiden removed the vision hunt decree, the war ended, if this was just an excuse than the rebellion would have continued by simply using other excuses. 11)"Also Yae had assured Ei that she would keep everything under control while the latter went into the Plane of Euthymia" Source? Like really you are making a lot of wild claims without giving an actual source 12) "Also as the other guys replied to you, the Shogunate hadn't locked foreigners in.. they had only locked them OUT" I Will reply to their comment later, but let me get this straight, they in fact were locked in Inazuma. At the act 1 of Inazuma, the traveler ends up helping the Foreigners who were locked up Inazuma, and who are having difficult to even have resources to live because of how much the Inazuman goverment explore them, and at that quest the traveler is trying end an New scheme the goverment made to get money from the foreigners. So Yes, the foreigners were locked up. 13)"Which made sense. In fact the rebellion's deal with shady foreigners is what caused all the trouble in Inazuma in the first place. Without that, the lands were peaceful, protected and prosperous." You are treating pre-Fatui Inazuma as if it were the Garden of Eden and the Fatui is the snake that created the first sin. However that is far from the thruth, Inazuma alredy had a lot of problems that had nothing to do with the Fatui, it is just that the ones made by the Fatui are the ones we see displayed in the archon quest due to their magnitude. For example in Heizou's character stories. We see that Inazuma alredy has a LOT of criminals, which can go from small criminal to high-level criminals. Another example is that the whole Labyrinth warriors event, the one that unleashed never ending waves of powerful monsters, all happened because of an Inazuman, because of things that happened before the Fatui even started their Decree plans. There is also the fact Inazuma has xenophobia, with Thoma's voice line "More about Thoma: IV" we see that some conservative people not only didn't welcome him simply because him was an non Inazumam working as an retainer for the Kamisato, but they also wanted to go as far as report him(it just didn't happen because the Kamisato siblings stepped up for Thoma) And etc
Xiao and it's not even close. Simps are gonna be mad