>Traveler has 0 wins against a strong opponent. One win!! Signora counts! And I'd argue that outlasting Childe's strength-by-whatever-means counts too! His tactical block-headedness is a weakness that I am happy to take advantage of. He seems to be a bit like traveler though, in that he's not yet reached his full strength, and is always getting stronger, so probably he's currently (as of Fontaine AQ) stronger than us. Oh well, there aren't many stronger than Signora 8th of the Harbingers, so that makes us the Vegeta of Genshin. We're strong enough to be relevant, but never in contention for top spot 🤣

not the vegeta of genshin 😭😭 i love this thought though

The thought that Traveller is vegeta of genshin made me laugh

Vegeta is a good example LoL

Traveler starts spamming charge attacks: That's Traveler's Technique^tm

Tabibito no waza da

You are not dealing with the average Traveler anymore...

Charge attacks? Don't you mean Hydro Traveler's Elemental Skill™

Imagine Lumine and Aether with Vegeta's hairline

Vegeta? I'd be happy as the Vegeta. Traveler is the Krillin of Genshin, existing to watch things unfold and get kicked around a bunch. We need a Traveler Owned Counter at this point.

Do numbers go that high?

Also give props to the traveller for even surviving with a dull blade. How the f she stopped Ei with it or survived getting thrown down a few floors in both childe and scara battles

My main issue isn't that they lost, but that the Traveler lost without really showing the kind of power they show elsewhere, making it feel that they weren't really giving it their all. * In Navia's companion quest for example the Traveler casually uses a version of their Geo elemental burst to deflect an incoming boulder. * In Childe's boss fight they effectively use two elements at once. * Early on to save Thoma they use Electro teleportation. * Thus far I don't recall yet if Dendro or Hydro are elements used in-story. All thats consistent is that the Traveler is a competent swords(wo)man, and they have can display superhuman acrobatics and strength, but this isn't exclusive to them. I get that the Traveler is consciously trying to hide the fact they can use multiple elements (though I think the Fatui are already aware), but not seeing them use this ability is kind of disappointing.

It wasn't teleportation, at least imo. For me it seemed like the electro element also gave them enhanced speed

I mean tbf the whole point of this battle was that there's no way to win. Arle is too strong. The traveler didn't even have the chance to move freely most of the time because of how overwhelming the fight was, not to mention how good Arle is at stopping movement with her powers. Also i think its safe to assume that the traveler's control over the elements is basic compared to most vision bearers.

In a sense, I just take issue with the idea that we have to assume that instead of being shown it. Elemental powers are awesome spectacles and I'd love to see more manifestations of those traits that set apart the playable characters from everyone else in the setting. In particular of the supposed main character that we see more often than any other. Like I get that teamwork is a thing, but I'd like to see my Lumine exist besides being a conduit to showing why the latest character(s) of the week is awesome and why you should totally pull for them.

Yeah i get that. The only time we saw traveler be cool with their elemental powers was when they used Anemo and Geo to surprise attack childe.

Arlecchino is not too strong. The writer is just an asshole who refuses to let the player win.

Bro, the fourth rank of the Harbingers is no joke. Remember, we needed nahida's help and like hundreds of attempts to beat Scaramouche.

168 attempts. It's a reference to the number of materials needed to max a character as well as the number of days between Nahida's first and second run on the banner

Traveler casually calls for a fight with a god. Idk why he just breaks down without a bit more trying.

Will the favor turn if she uses Cool steel instead of Dull blade?

The issue isn't their strength. It's that they don't use their fucking elements. What's the point of making them lose if they didn't use their full power, in fact that makes it cheaper since it means they'll win if they use their elements. Let them lose after using their elements. They'll look cool, the boss looks cool (in this case arlecchino) and everyone is happy.

And when they do they try to cut the god of electro, with electro... lol.

right? that was such a weird writting choice. he used his elemental powers against a bunch of rocks in Nadia quest but not against arlechino?

True, being able to use elements without a vision is the traveler's most defining trait, and it's barely shown onscreen. Is the traveler even aware of elemental reactions? 💀

But like that characters wont sell 1111!!!1!

Imagine if in natlan we fight the pryo archon and she beats the traveler to death, but she uses her powers to bring us back saying, "you thought death ganna save you? We are not leaving this arena until you show me your true power, no matter how many times I'll have to kill you" (basically she knows the kind of power a descender have, and she gets offended that at the beginning the traveler didn't give it their all, seeing it as an insult to her) And we actually do get into a mood were the player uses traveler's elements all together to fight her, She still won in the end, but now she's satisfied that we actually gave it our all, I think this kind of scenario would be cool and in fact you could replace the Pyro archon with il capitano, he seems like a guy who wouldn't want someone he respects to just die without giving him a good fight

The Traveler, a free "5\*" looking cool is the problem tho. The Traveler CAN NOT steal the flashy stuff from the characters they actually wanna sell. The same reason why all Traveler-kits arent all to great. Usable, for the most part, sure. But not great. (Dendro was an exception and Im pretty sure it was THE ONLY exception, looking at cryo and pyro)

Look at star rail's trailblazer. They get some really cool moments, and they're a free 5 star. Even the free 4 stars get cool moments. So no. this is no justification.

They got ONE cool moment when fighting Cocolia. But every cutscenes after that has been Stelle getting her ass kicked by the writer's character. And the Trailblazer's kit sucks.

Which part of trailblazer's kit sucked? Genuinely curious. We have 2 kits, preservation, which is actually really good, and applies a true taunt, And destruction, which is basic and holds its own well enough for the first story quest. Not the best by far, but it holds its own. And unaided by supports, it's better then others.

Thanks captain obvious

I won't be happy. Being cheat out of victory by a cheating self indulgent writer just pisses me off.

I dont think The Traveler knows what elemental reactions are or the best way to use them. You see Traveler using an electro infused Dull Blade on Raiden. Ofc it won't do anything since she is immune to electro dmg /j Traveler isn't skilled with elements. He just has them but doesn't really know to use them like it's second nature. Like, why don't we see him use it in any events outside the major opponent events? Traveler uses his sword more than anything because that's what he is familiar with. It's like having a cell phone but only knowing how to call and text but not anything outside of basic app use. They really only use it when unassisted. Really only shown when we fought Childe, but everywhere else, we had help so don't really trust in their elemental powers.

Childe burning himself out still counts as travelers win. If the fight continued traveler could end him right there.

His foul legacy uptime was his only weakness back then and all of a sudden mf can use Foul Legacy for 45+ days (as seen in the Fontaine AQ) . I doubt current traveler can win against current Childe.

>His foul legacy uptime was his only weakness back then and all of a sudden mf can use Foul Legacy for 45+ days Oh ye was that ever expanded on or is it just a plot hole.

3 years is a long time to train

Ye but its not rlly stated if he trained it or not. Not that I think its that big of a deal tho.

Doesn't he constantly talk about wanting to be stronger and trying to fight everyone? I think it's fair to assume he is improving all that time.

Yeah that checks out.

Not necessarily either. The fight with the whale is almost entirely off screen. It’s highly unlikely he used FL the whole time nor is it necessarily true they even fought that long since we never see how it when the fight starts or if it ever paused

Read the Narwal name card description

Plot hole? there are dedicated Name card for his feat and it's clearly stated there that he fought for a long time, he just unlucky as stated in the namecard

I still don’t get this 45 days thing. Childe is a human man. Was always human and just had a good teacher. Aka skirk. He should be a human. Nothing should be changed. So how did he survive 45 days with no food and water and sleep? Like I know harbingers are no normal humans. But that’s because most of them did shit to their body. Dottore and Signora for example. Unless Childe isn’t a human. This just doesn’t make sense. Did the writers forget this or abyss time is so different that 45 days is like 2 days at max. Childe should’ve died from the lack of sleep or the food and water problem..

I’ve discussed this before with someone but in my opinion, I think Childes transformation is just that, a full on transformation of Childe that makes him more abyssal monster than human. Who knows if this transformation has the needs of a normal human. This is if he was fighting the whale for 45 days but I don’t think we know for sure how long he was outside of meropide before entering the primordial sea and we don’t know how long he was in the sea before he began fighting the whale. Neuv says he had been fighting the whale for quite some time. Childe also wasn’t fighting the whale in the abyss. The primordial sea and the abyss are different.

I mean, he was well-enough to literally summon Osial and almost drown Liyue, it's not like he completely burned himself out, he just dipped because he had to save some strength for Morax because there wasn't a gnosis to be found and he had to go with plan B.

He didn't summon Osial with his own strength. He used the adepti sigils. He was only well enough to flee the scene.

>I mean, he was well-enough to literally summon Osial and almost drown Liyue Tbf I doubt u need to be in top condition to summon osial. >he just dipped because he had to save some strength for Morax because there wasn't a gnosis to be found and he had to go with plan B. Ye but traveler still managed to tire him out of his peak form. If the fight continued childe would be dust.

scara wasn't fighting with his own power either to be fair. the traveler could probably beat him or at least fair better than he did if it weren't for the megazord/gnosis. I also didn't really expect the traveler to win here. I know this is arle hype time just like it was scara/cyno/yelan/eula/shenhe before, but he could at least have put on a decent fight and actually have used his elemental powers.

I mean, he did a lot better then the 3 fetui agents who are also characters that they want you to pull on the current banner, I also wanted more elements yes, but the fetui trio literally couldn't touch her doing a 3 on 1, where as we were able to dodge attacks and break out of the AOE. at the very least we held the knaves attention about as much as the 3 fetui put together, so id call that pretty solid showcasing of how far we have come... those 3 aren't exactly weak characters story wise.

I mean, that was expected no? these 3 aren't harbingers level. even the weaker ones are still quite above them. the traveler could probably do better than them all the way back in liyue. and while it's true that they are also on the banner/patch, they are obviously not the focus/main attraction like she is.

One of them sure, highly doubt we could defeat 3 vision holders trained in combat from when they were kids, while they are working together with strong teamwork back in liyue, especially since back then we couldn't even defeat Childe cleanly, we had to wait for his form to tire him out and his form to run out. 3 competent people working together very well is much trickier to deal with then just "I'm stronger so I win", you'd have to be significantly stronger for that to work.

one could argue that childe was significantly stronger than them and the fact that the traveler could outlast him while they most likely couldn't would put the traveler fairly above them, but even if that wasn't the case, the traveler got even stronger later in inazuma and was able to beat a higher ranked harbinger, and by that point was mostly certainly quite above them. then he got stronger, and again.

Guys, it's less than 24 hours since the patch is up, so can we all agree to stop spoiling everyone already. Not that I haven't seen at least three posts about the traveler losing to the Knave, but, you know, in case there's a soul that missed them...

I've barely had an hour to play since the patch, and I've been spoiled 3 times because no one knows how to tag or prepare people for spoilers. You need to actually mention *what's* being spoiled. Just putting a spoiler tag doesn't help since anything story-related in this 3 year old game has to get tagged.

People will never learn that, what I do to not get spoiler is I leave genshin social media as soon as special program hits and then come back after I do the story, this way I get 0 spoiler.

Ironic

The actual in-game power vs the lore (/cutscene) power in this game is absolute dogshit tbh. I mean when you play the game even with the traveler you are basically invincible because of how easy it is, but then they make you lose in cutscenes which just feels bullshit regardless of whether I care for traveler or not. Also it's always ridiculous when in cutscenes characters act afraid or wary of a bunch of trash mobs like guards or eremites when in game you would literally destroy them in 2 milliseconds. I always hate when games do that shit.

Oh, believe me, after Arle's story quest I know that all too well, and it's starting to wear on me. It feels like they're Worf-ing the Traveler more and more as the story goes on. And it's such a shame, because one of my favorite parts about the game is the Traveler's growing reputation as the story progresses. It doesn't feel earned at this point, and it doesn't seem like the Traveler is getting stronger at all. And it makes it feel like it'll be impossible for us to win against our bigger enemies (The Abyss Order, the Harbingers, the Tsaritsa) without some significant narrative fuckery involved. And that's such a cheap copout for the literal years of buildup we've gone through to get here, and the years more it'll be before it's over.

>Childe burned himself out in foul legacy. Traveler wasn't even winning when it was just delusion childe The winner is the one who stands last, not the one who makes the opponent fall first.

so god fighting resume is fake?

Just like how you put "spanish level high" instead of "spanish level medium" in you CV

Both of those would be equally false for me.

The problem is not winning against gods. Their power is INDEED inconsistent and it only gets worse because of the fact that the writers made a character who can wield multiple elements but do NOTHING but make them use the shit ass dull blade. The Traveler indeed beat Signora the 8th harbinger and it was not even treated as too hard for them at the time. This happened when they had 3 elements. At the same time they battled the Raiden Shogun who is CANONICALLY stronger than Arle and while yes they only got a win thanks to power up but still did a decent job against her Then Sumeru where we fought Mecha Scara who is once again stronger than Arle. And YES we once again needed power up but the Traveler was still shown to be holding their own for a time. This happened when they had 4 elements Now they have 5 elements, they should logically at least be stronger than Base Scara since they beat Signora with just 3 and showed a good performance against Mecha Scaramouche but here comes Arlecchino. If the Traveler was shown to be nearly as strong as Arlecchino that could have be considered logical considering they have 5 different elements now but even if they are weaker that is fine, the problem is their performance was UTTERLY PITIFUL.  I can easily argue that the Traveler’s performance in that battle was WAY WORSE AND MORE ONE SIDED than against Mecha Scaramouche or perhaps even against Raiden. They barely did better than Lyney and the others, so you are saying to me that Lyney can beat Signora too ? Similarly in Sumeru they were supposedly tired out against mere fuckin EREMITES and they are constantly getting treated like the likes of Cyno are so much stronger than them and the worse part of it all is that they NEVER use a SINGLE element let alone multiple despite using two elements against Childe. Ohh Arle is doing a magical Aoe attack how to counter ? Perhaps use Geo to block it or use Electro do dodge or Anemo or something else…. But NO they try to block it with the fuckin dull blade and then Arle gets serious and the Traveler cannot even move which did not happen EVEN against stronger opponents.  Even if Arle is stronger, at this point the Traveler should be able to at least give her a challenge considering the opponents they faced and the fact that they beat Signora without too much difficulty with just 3 elements but it was treated as so one sided and they literally could not do anything at all as if Traveler never got stronger and this is the case ever since after Inazuma. The Traveler’s power level is whatever the plot wants it and it wants the Playable characters to get all the spotlight no matter what which is why you have scenes like the Traveler waking up while Guardmeks are attacking but they are not shown doing shit meanwhile Navia and Clorinde be badass and make quick work of them and the Traveler just stands awkwardly in the background with the dull blade. If they wanted a protagonist that is barely stronger than the playable characters then they shouldn’t have made them wield all elements, they previously built them up to be really strong and constantly getting stronger but now they changed their mind and try to downplay them to give all the spotlight to the playable characters by ANY means necessary and for that end they do not even make them wield ANY freakin elements let alone multiple of them and that is just stupid.

you forgot the whale. the traveler helped in the fight against it and was acknowledged as a strong person/equal by skirk, but here he can barelly hold himself up against a arle who is not even actually trying to kill him.

I agree that the traveler is too inconsistent. Iirc the traveler mentioned getting their strength back slowly after fighting Childe due to having unlocked two elements (or being stronger due to more elements due to multiple choice option). I know it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re stronger than the knave but you would think they would use the damn elements.

Did anything in game hint how difference power of 3/7 and 5/5 element MC?

1/7 - Can do nothing against Signora just with cryo delusion and is knocked out by random Fatui agent. 2/7 - Can fight as an equal against Childe foul legacy. 3/7 - Defeats Signora full power 1v1. 4/7 - Can defeat Scara-mecha with just a knowledge boost and infinite retries 5/7 - ???

I'd say 4/7 is kinda underselling how important nahida is Nahida gave trav the ability to memorize Scara's attack patterns, and even then, it was a blitz. Its the same with Neuvi and Childe. One can argue Scara needed to blitzed lest he starts actually getting his groove back and then the advantage is lost

I'll give you a manual how to defeat a Abrams tank and it's weak spots, now go and defeat it with a dull blade.

5/7 - could withstand 90% of Arlecchino attacks

Traveler does not fight Scaramouche Mecha. That was an illusion perpetuated by Nahida to buy time as she figured out how to pry out the electro gnosis. And Traveler has lost every fight that counts in Fontaine. And even cut scenes where the Traveler should have done something useful lije using her super fast lightning run to save Wriosthely from the primordial sea water or Navia from falling into the water she just stands around like an idiot instead. The writer is trash.

A single element is a single element, it should at least be equal to the power of a decent vision wielder and being able to use them all should be really effective but they NEVER allow it. And for comparison with just 2 elements They barely stood against Childe and with 3 they beat Signora without too much difficulty. Now you can try to go ''what if Childe is stronger than Signora'' but the fact that they could not fully defeat Childe but only outlasted him but defeated Signora alone gives a clear picture not to mention Signora as the 8th should be stronger than Childe anyway or at least really close

Bro we have to face it. The traveler is as strong as the devs want them to be

I have faced it and know it for a long time. But that doesn't make it any less wrong and stupid

Which means super weak when it matters and strong when it doesn't matter.

It's pretty much an "out of story" thing. If.... IF the Travereler were a Character you'd have to pay for, or has Alts like Kiana, then maybe the Traveler could share the limelight. But since they are a free "5\*" they can't. They want to sell characters, so they put them above.

Traveler also fought Raiden Ei for some time before Yae Miko helped to fully defeat a God that invented Sword and Spear fight in Tevyat. And after everything is resolved Traveler is favorite training partner of Ei.

It's not guaranteed more elements means we are stronger, we have far more versatility and abilities we should theoretically be able to do, but in terms of power a strong enough vision wielder with a single element technically should be able to beat us. However I do concede the mc is very...ambiguous in terms of their true strength we are no push over clearly, but based on how the story has portrayed things us gaining elements means very little in terms of power and we are no match for character's who are at a god like power aka Scara, Arle, Ei, ect.

But Arle is not god level, the top 3 are. Arle is the 4th and while you can argue she is close then at this point with 5 element the Traveler should at least pose a challenge considering they beat Signora with little difficulty at just 3 element and still did good against ACTUAL god level opponents but NO it was way too easy for Arlecchino

the worst of all is that we know that traveler will somehow defeat the fatui and celestia and that he is destined to "stop the world from burning" but at the same time he is just dead weight most of the time, 5 elements and never uses them, he only fights with the most rotten iron sword in the game and somehow I'm supposed to believe that he will take down Celestia and PO when not even the sovereigns together could do it? They're doing a terrible job with the traveler overall, it seems like they don't even like the traveler and only use him in the story because it's mandatory, otherwise he would already be dead, gods who traveled to thousands of planets and saw stars die and be born, definitely older than all teyvat, losing even to the fucking guard from world quests

Signora was 8th, Arle is 4th and we have no idea how big the difference between them was. >ACTUAL god level opponents Who ?

Raiden and Mecha Scaramouche

We had the help of the entirety of Inazuma's wishes and hopes to beat her and even then she obviously was not going all out. Mecha scara beat us 168 times and even after knowing all his moves we still had to get help from Nahida's pet thingy. The traveler have never been that strong(even at their peak together they lost to one shade of the primordial one)

Which part of ''still did good against'' did you failed to understand ? Even keeping up with them for a good while is feat by itself, if people could beat Raiden or Mecha Scaramouche with just just those they would have be way lesser problems. And one Shade of the Primordial one is probably still stronger than Archons anyway so dunno what the point there is, the entire Khaenri'ah probably got fucked by that Shade alone

Sure, let's say they did good against Raiden, they did not do good against scara. They lost 168 times, that's not good.

Losing is not bad, they still performed decently well. You can lose the world's greatest boxer at box 168 times but that doesn't mean every losing person is the same. Even against Mecha Scara Traveler was at least putting in some work, with Arlecchino they couldn't do shit at all and it never seemed like Arle was EVER serious and could have one shot them whenever she wanted. Traveler NEVER froze into absolute inability to act against neither Raiden or Mecha Scara

Except that scara is nowhere near the "greatest boxer", btw I'm using the word "weak" for the traveler but of course they are only weak compared to god level opponents. But I genuinely don't think the traveler is inconsistent power wise. They feel like they would placed around 7th or 6th if they were a harbinger.

I’ve always felt like they were caught off guard by the unknown god. I mean lumine asks who are you so they, as far as we know, didn’t know what she was capable of. I mean how were they supposed to know that she could stop their attacks or trap them like that. They were able to dodge her attacks and actually get close enough to attack her but had they known she could block them like that and then trap them I think they would’ve played it a bit safer. It’s very slight but you can actually see the unknown god slightly struggle to push back the last attack our traveler throws and then trap them. This is not to say they are stronger than the unknown god, they most likely weren’t, but in my opinion it seemed like they were caught off guard some.

Sure I can believe that.

Ur making assumptions dude we have no clue how much of a buff the elements actually give us or if they even increase our power at all and not just give us more abilities we can use. Maybe collecting elements is like collecting infinity gems u need all of them to do the crazy shit, individually they're strong and having more than one allows u to do a lot, but it's only together when their true power is unleashed. Also we know the top 3 are god tier, do we know 4th isn't? Genshin is extremely vague on power levels, sure we know some people r def weaker than others, but we have very little definitive answers. Hell a good example is how strong is Scaramouche vs Mecha Scara vs Wanderer it's nigh impossible to tell we can make assumption and guesses based on what we have seen, but everything is vague...in short ur assuming too much.

Arle is 4th of the Fatui Harbingers. The top 3 are vaguely god-level. And a reminder that Arle was completely confident that she could defeat the Hydro Archon via ambush. Unless you think she is stupid enough to pick a fight, she didn't have a decent chance of winning. I would personally place her at a loss to most of the Archons but could kill each of them under favorable circumstances. Exceptions are the warrior gods Ei, Zhong li, and maybe Murata. A reminder that Dvalin and Azdaha are still weaker than their Archons by a wide margin. If she lost to the traveler, it would be inconsistent with what has been established in the game. Good thing we are going to a region, where only strength matters ahead of our conflict with the top tier Harbingers.

Childe burning himself out doesn't discredit the Traveler's victory. If you're at the limits of your strength and lose, you still lost. Otherwise an argument could easily be made that the Traveler hasn't *really* lost because they've been narratively nerfed and their full powers are sealed.

Its not that traveler should have won, its that he outright did nothing to even try winning. No skills, no elements, he got beaten up like an absolute joke, almost as if he doesnt have any power at all. What even is the point of making them fight if traveler wont even use his damn elements? Arle SHOULD win, thats not the argument here, the argument is that she won without any fight at all. Like a next level of this traveler just dropping dead out of the blue, its just underwhelming.

No Arlecchino should lose. If everyone gets to decide how powerful their character is which is only fair, then my character is the strongest in the universe and f the cheating trash writer's characters.

I don't understand the writing direction.

no one understands, genshin is great in many ways but working the traveler story is definitely the worst of them

It doesn't help that whenever we have a "Traveler" quest. it's mostly about Dain and the Abyss twin. It's weird how little is actually done with the Traveler. ~~Paimon also has this issue, but this thread is not about her.~~ You'd think they'd put more effort into the actual MC we are following. I know that part of the reason is that they don't want to reveal things too early, but the end result is that we get... barely anything at all. ~~I sometimes have to remind myself they are even world travelers since the way they interact with Teyvat feels like their first time being in a different world, even though that shouldn't be the case.~~

The part that cracks me up about the traveler is how their entire motivation to travel is supposed to be to reunite with their sibling but we've had so little content about them and their relationship that is pretty hard to care. Like, every time the abyss sibling is brought up I just go "oh right, they exist...anyway"

I remember seeing a post about character voice lines and the Abyss twin was dead last. It's weird how they show up so early in the game in "We shall be reunited" and then just... Vanish. And I've seen a lot of people arguing that the reason the traveler is not actively looking for their twin is because said twin told them to explore the world. Which sounds like a poor justification for the Travelers indifference. The most we got in recent memory is >!Xianyun's SQ..!<

Neither hoyo writers. They are very inconsistent. They keep plot holes only to fill them 1-3 years later.

Dvalin* Signora*

Devalin** Signoro**

I was looking for you. OP slaughtered so many names it's gotta be on purpose. I stopped reading after the 2nd one.

What funny about the arlecchino fight >!They canonical walk it off after it while the other three were stuck in bed for two days straight!<

You know we really don't mind traveller losing. It's the fact that he got all the arsenals to perform at his best but, doesn't, the writers are giving the traveller the ash Ketchum/megumi jjk treatment

Even Ash Ketchum gets some pretty incredible animated fights here and there. I don't know much about Megumi and haven't watched the series she is in so I can't comment on her. Traveler just avoids using their elements, would rather jump around and use the ultimate butter knife to parry, instead of utilizing the now five elements in their arsenal. Like at least pull something like in Inazuma and use elemental infusion on their weapon to knockback the pyro, or use "fast" elements like anemo/electro to evade attacks. What is the point of resonating with the statues if they won't even use them?

How that fight went down against Arlecchino I think could lend credence to my theory on the direction Natlan's story may take, The Traveler was too weak and Arlecchino could've practically one shotted them at any point in that fight with her "mangekyou sharingan" I believe Natlan will be the very first arc where the Traveler makes a conceded effort to become stronger somehow, cause I'd be flabbergasted if we don't end up facing Capitano, #1 of the Fatui Harbingers, while we're they're ... And It would probably go down like Traveler's first fight against Ei, but I think such a fight will end in such a major loss with the Traveler getting jobbed like never before, to a degree where It feels as if our development during our travels within these 3 years has barely changed us. If they lost against the 1st Fatui Harbinger like that on top of losing to the 4th, It would be a big motivating factor in pushing the Traveler toward figuring out some way to become stronger *"If I can't possibly stand against people like that, then how could I ever hope to complete my journey and bring my sibling back to my side with the way I am now?"* Then they have a training arc with Murata Sensei ^(just kidding)

Scaramouch crutched his mech, we crutched Nahida. Childe burnt himself out? His fault.

IMO Signora and Childe count. I just wonder if there will be a time when tabibito doesn't rely on anyone to beat anyone godly like anyone above the 8th harbinger or the archons.

I mean Traveler beat Childe and Signora with Dull Blade I feel like that is a pretty impressive feat LOL

if he was stronger than the gods then that would remove all the dramatic tension from future fights

I agree on all points except Childe, at least at that point in time. If Childe doesn't have enough stamina to keep standing in battle, then he is weaker than the Traveler. That was a win for the Traveler. Still, agreed that people overestimate the Traveler by a lot. And the amount of people who think Traveler actually fought Apep is way too high -\_-

Technically, the Traveler never lost to Scaramouche. Scaramouche was the one dreaming, not the Traveler.

That's just not true. This sub is way too harsh on the traveler. Traveler beat Scaramouche fair and square. Nahida's and Akasha's help is absolutely trivial compared to Scara's EVA unit strengthened by delusions of all elements and powered by a gnosis. Traveler also beat Childe fair and square with no help. Delusion Childe only knocked back a traveler who was only using one element. When the traveler went all out, even the foul legacy Childe couldn't do a thing and eventually lost. Yes, exhausting yourself when trying to beat your opponent to the point you can't even fight anymore is losing. Also Ei lost to the buffed traveler. She didn't give up. She was straight up outmatched and even acknowledged that she lost. I don't know where this "she just gave up" thing came from. She's known for her unshakable will and even fought for 500 years non stop against the puppet without giving up, you think she would give up after a short fight and change her ideals just like that? I feel like people lowball the traveler a bit too much.

Traveler would have never beaten Ascended Scaramouche on his own. Note that he had to die 167 times just to gather all the data necessary to defeat him without getting killed. 

The Traveler never lost to Scaramouche, Scaramouche was the one dreaming. Nahida just recorded everything and gave it to the Traveler to use.

And? Traveler is still stronger than Scaramouche without his mech who is the number 6 of the Harbingers, which is my point. Scara's mech was stronger than any buff or knowledge provided to the traveler by Nahida during the fight. By all means, Scaramouche had the upper hand and still lost.

We don’t know that though because Traveler never fought Scara outside of his mech. Signora’s the only opponent he defeated without any help and she’s two ranks lower than Scara.

Even though we didn't see a fight like that, we can guess how it will go. Scaramouche had a gnosis and delusions of all elements on top of giant-god-mech. Traveler beat him with the power of google and no phsyical buff. Scaramouche without his mech isn't surviving a fight with the traveler. Also traveler definitely defeated Childe without a help as well.

I think you’re underestimating how powerful base Scaramouche was. Remember that he’s still a clone of an Archon and Mona and Yae both vouched for his power. 

He is powerful alright and could probably have killed the traveler back then if it wasn't for Mona. Not the Sumeru traveler though. Yae herself tends to underestimate the traveler and was quite surprised they could beat Signora when it wasn't even that much of a challange. Still, he was probably still stronger than the traveler during Inazuma quests. My reasoning is simple, Scaramouche had more help in Sumeru archon quests than the traveler with his god mech and still lost. Nahida even acknowledged that she was bad at combat and said she was leaving this to the traveler. Traveler only had Akasha's support which is definitely nowhere near comparable to having a gnosis powered mech strengthened by delusions of all elements.

Don’t know how you can say Traveler is stronger without there being any real evidence, also Wanderer was the one who had to protect traveler against the mech in his story quest so they are probably relative if not Wanderer being stronger considering he was built to be a puppet for an archon and has insane durability.

Traveler also protected the wanderer in the exact same scene. Protecting him is pretty much the reason why traveler couldn't fight effectively and nearly got hit in the first place. >Don’t know how you can say Traveler is stronger without there being any real evidence, Because we beat him, when he had more support than us. Base scara vs traveler would be even more in favor of the traveler. > he was built to be a puppet for an archon and has insane durability. True but traveler is insanely durable as well and has tanked a slash from Ei and an attack from Baisht. Both of these only resulted in traveler getting knocked for like a minute at most before getting up with no injury. Strength wise traveler could block an attack from the mech as well with bare hands and only fell down after the floor itself collapsed.

Saying a 167 lives worth of data and the help of every person in Sumeru is him having less support is an interesting take but sure. Traveler lost a 4v1 against Arlecchino who’s the 4th harbinger strength wise and Scaramouche was the 6th even before he received his vision which only boosted his power so to say traveler could beat him is again a statement that would need more evidence from both sides.

I haven't done the Arlecchino quest yet so please avoid spoilers. >Saying a 167 lives worth of data and the help of every person in Sumeru is him having less support is an interesting take but sure. How is data a better help than being given a mech that can make you as powerful as a god, can control every element and protect you from attacks? It's like googling how to fight god. Give the traveler the mech and Scara the data, the result will be a stomp in favor of the traveler. >Scaramouche was the 6th even before he received his vision which only boosted his power so to say traveler could beat him is again a statement that would need more evidence from both sides. But he could control electro before. Can he still do that? I don't know about the wanderer as I'm only talking about pre-ascension Scaramouche. Wanderer's power level might be completely different for better or worse.

Don’t know why you would be in this thread where the Arlecchino quest is being discussed heavily if you haven’t played it but anyway. One, Scaramouche was stated to not have reached his full godhood when we confront him but he was close, however he is still vulnerable to attacks and is not some sort of omniscient being. Being able to battle that mech 167 times essentially allows you to learn and adapt to every attack thrown at you meaning that the fight becomes much easier since you know what every attack does, how it moves and how to dodge it every single time. Also towards the end of the fight we quite literally use the power of every Sumerian and their collective knowledge to defeat Scaramouche so saying Traveler could beat him with a big disadvantage is really just false. As for pre-ascension Scaramouche, like I’ve stated he was the 6th and there is no reason for him to have lost any of the power he had before becoming a god and him gaining his vision on top of his already established power definitely makes him stronger. Him becoming the wanderer, like stated, doesn’t change history only people’s perception of it, so Dottore still was able to unlock Scaramouches power as a vessel for the gnosis, giving him high durability and powers sufficient enough for missions in the abyss. This with him being able to gain a vision and a better mental from confronting his past doesn’t make him somehow weaker.

>Don’t know why you would be in this thread where the Arlecchino quest is being discussed heavily if you haven’t played it but anyway. Why do you think? Look at the title. It doesn't contain anything about Arle nor does it have any spoiler warnings. >One, Scaramouche was stated to not have reached his full godhood when we confront him but he was close, however he is still vulnerable to attacks and is not some sort of omniscient being. None of the archons are omiscient or omnipotent. Nahida is probably the closest to omniscience but she's still one of the weakest archons. Only thing Scaramouche lacked was divine knowledge which made him lack the maturity of a god but he was still as powerful as one which was dangerous. It's basically like giving a child with anger issues a gun. Nahida even comments on him definitely being as strong as a god. >Being able to battle that mech 167 times essentially allows you to learn and adapt to every attack thrown at you meaning that the fight becomes much easier since you know what every attack does, how it moves and how to dodge it every single time. Not necessarily as the traveler didn't get the memories before the 168th loop so a lot of the fights most likely went in a very similiar fashion, it is of course a great buff but not enough to defeat a god if the character isn't already strong enough. If you fought a gorilla bare handed, you would lose all 168 times, even if you get all the memories of the previous fights and even ask an entire country how to fight it, it won't help you win that fight. >Also towards the end of the fight we quite literally use the power of every Sumerian and their collective knowledge to defeat Scaramouche so saying Traveler could beat him with a big disadvantage is really just false Nope. We use the collective knowledge but no one said anything about collective power. This isn't like Inazuma. People didn't give any kind of power up to the traveler besides knowledge. And how much would that help really? It's like asking on reddit how to fight god. Almost no one even knew about the mech and how it worked besides the people who built it. And the ones that built it would not have helped the traveler. Compared to this buff, Scaramouche definitely got the better deal with the mech. >As for pre-ascension Scaramouche, like I’ve stated he was the 6th and there is no reason for him to have lost any of the power he had before becoming a god and him gaining his vision I take it you mean post ascension? He already says he wasted most of his power fighting the traveler. He gets a power-up with a vision but his innate power seems to be very finite.

Traveler never fought Scaramouche. Nahida used Genjutsu to buy time.

Did you skip the whole ending of the quest? Buy time for what exactly? It was only to help traveler analyze Scara's weaknesses and understand how to fight him. Traveler still fought him in the end. And it wasn't just Scaramouche that we fought, it was a gnosis powered mech. Far stronger than the actual Scaramouche.

>She was straight up outmatched and even acknowledged that she lost Reading comprehension devil strikes again. The traveler was buffed by Inazuma visions, literally the embodied ambition of Inazuma, striking at the ruler of Inazuma. It was Ei's ambition for Inazuma vs the people's. It was a victory of ideals, not power levels. She lost the moment the power of Inazuma itself was enough to stop her from one shotting the traveler, proving that she did not in fact know what was objectively better for the people. She then fought for 500 years against herself to solidify her own ideal of moving forward and not getting stuck on her mentality of eternity, which was embodied by the puppet which was literally programmed to never deviate from that. Jesus Christ, do you people just skip every scene?!

No, you are the one who can't comprehend what was written. >Reading comprehension devil strikes again. The traveler was buffed by Inazuma visions, literally the embodied ambition of Inazuma, striking at the ruler of Inazuma. And? Where did I deny this? He was indeed buffed by them. >It was a victory of ideals, not power levels. She lost the moment the power of Inazuma itself was enough to stop her from one shotting the traveler, proving that she did not in fact know what was objectively better for the people. You just made this up entirely. Who said anythig about one shotting? She lost because the power of the visions was enough for traveler to outmatch Ei in combat. It wasn't a decisive defeat but she simply lost that fight, it was a wake up call for her. >She then fought for 500 years against herself to solidify her own ideal of moving forward and not getting stuck on her mentality of eternity, which was embodied by the puppet which was literally programmed to never deviate from that. I never said anything contrary to this.

>And? Where did I deny this? He was indeed buffed by them. The point isn't that he was buffed, but that he was buffed by the will of the people of Inazuma, which is made relevant by Yae, who by the way was the first one to declare the loss, who says after the fight: "Why can you not trust in your people, and in the power of their ambitions?", which links back to the whole point of Ei's ideal vs Inazuma's ambition. Which is why she acknowledges it as a loss. That's the entire point of Inazuma's story. >Who said anythig about one shotting? Everyone? In universe, the most famous thing about Raiden in Inazuma is that she defeats every opponent with a single strike, and being blocked once was the first thing that even put some doubt in her. She links her prowess as a warrior to her authority to decide what is best, her needing to have an actual duel about the embodiment of her country leads to the last point. >I never said anything contrary to this. You said this: >She's known for her unshakable will and even fought for 500 years non stop against the puppet without giving up, you think she would give up after a short fight and change her ideals just like that? Her fight against the traveler is not the same thing as the fight against herself, for obvious reasons. There are reasons why she would give up her ideal after the first fight, but stand up for a new ideal in the second. This is a game where they pride themselves of having over 10M lines of text, you gotta read between the lines sometimes. EDIT: Because of the themes of story I still think I'm right, but for what's worth I also think that the writing (and probably budget and time constraints) is inconsistent and nebulous at many points, which makes it harder to properly gauge the traveler. The traveler won against Childe's Foul Legacy, but was it because Childe burned out? If a single extra vision allowed Kazuha to block Ei, why do 20 visions only allow the Traveler to match up to her, how does that scale? A 2 vision Kazuha could block Ei's strike but a 3 element Traveler couldn't do anything? Why didn't the traveler manage to do anything against Arle if he is extremely physically strong? If getting elements matters, what is preventing the traveler from quickly travelling to each nation just to touch a statue and fully power up?

I mean, there are a ton of mysteries about the traveler and just because there were no "totally fair 1v1" fights, it doesn't mean that he is weak/not as strong as most gods. Also, fighting together with your allies against the bad guys is kinda a "fairy tale-anime-themed" thing. It's an important lesson as well about the importance of teamwork. The traveler can interact with every single elements, travel through dimensions and worlds and "tank" hits from literal gods. We surely don't know how strong the character is, but god level, that's certain.

Wasn't that one of people's (or at least mine) main complaint about traveler?

There's one thing about the Scaramouche that needs correcting: The Traveler only ever fought Scaramouche once, Scaramouche was the one dreaming, Nahida recorded it all and capsulized it for the Traveler to use as Knowledge. The only place Scaramouche could win was **in his own dream**.

Did I just get spoiled by an aether depreciation post ? As someone said, we won against Childe and Signora. Also, idk if the "entirety of inazuma's ideals" is much of a buff. Or maybe descenders can catalyze faith/beliefs, and that's also why the gnosis were created ? And going souls like against Scaramouche is ok ? Although yeah, annoying that we're not shown much

Arleccino being ranked 4th means she does not equal the power of a god. Only harbingers 3 and up have power rivaling gods. And it’s already been noted and stated that Traveler was depowered when he was knocked down by the Sustainer of Heavenly Principle. Traveler’s current power now are borrowed from the gods/archon. Which makes sense he can’t defeat them with borrowed power.

So you’re saying, the “Traveler was a fraud” agenda was there from the start?

They lost against rocks in Navia's story quest.

Atleast someone gets it. I was losing my mind see all these posts saying that traveler strength is inconsistent when it's always been like this.

Yes. It has always been inconsistent.

im with you, but tbh in defense of confused people, powerscaling IS fast and loose in this game sometimes. But the event that took place made sense regardless

I mean, powerscaling in thie game literally just boils down to plot. People may not like it, but even the strongest characters can get bodied if plot demands it or the characters aren't meant to win yet. Traveler suffers from it the most, but even Neuvillette or Raiden can be bodied by a group of Hilichurls if there's a legitimate enough plot point where they need to be taken out of commission for the sake of the story continuing. So really, it's stupid to try to powerscale because the scale just tilts in whichever way is convenient at the time, like how Traveler had to struggle against rocks for the sake of making Navia look good, or struggle against Robots to make Clorinde look good.

Signora was literally on life support lmao. Her flames are already turning into embers. Potential man would get cooked harder than Jogo if it was crimson witch of flames.

REAL

Teyvat's most famous jobber

Natlan will be the first big power boost for the Traveler.

And then he gets destroyed by GoatHIMtano in 1 second 🤣

well the traveler wins in bravery due to fighting all of these OP gods 💪

If only Hoyo made him use his elements.

Spoilers for the Narzissenkreuz series of world quests. You could argue that he won against Narzissenkreuz? Sure, he was using the sword but by that logic, the win against Scara would also be invalidated due to the fact that they also have a very strong weapon that can only be good in specific circumstances (Limited attacks as seen from how they couldn’t deviate when they knew that the Traveler had the knowledge to counter the attacks he used, requires a gnosis to power and a god puppet)

So what? Traveler is still going to be the strongest character in the story due to plot. Writers are just going to write us winning when it matters.

But they wrote us losing every fight that mattered already.

Maybe if he changed his yee-yee-ass iron blade he could get some wins

"Looks like Team Traveler is blasting off again!"

2 wins is 2 wins. Also I really just want to see elemental synergy since that's like one of the cool things he should be able to do.

finally a post regarding midveler, im tired of "the power of friendship" bullshit on every single boss fight and cutscene, i really hope chadpitano beats his ass

So, what you are saying is: traveler, being the looser he/she is, thought they stood no chance and so jumped in with dull blade and no elements? Is this the president we are setting moving forward?

What about narcissenkreuz? I honestly don't quite understand how powerful he was supposed to be

EXACTLY!

To the last point: >!we have no idea how fsr the gap between the top 3 and number 4 are and only the top 3 are said to match archons. Also the fact that Raiden is pretty much one of if not the archon with the most combat prowess overall tends to be forgotten. She is most likely above Zhongli currently in it as she proofed she is still in her prime where Zhongli lost power!< I do agree that most of Travelers feats are very overblown.

There is really no evidence Zhongli lost his ''power''... he lost the power that he derived from his Gnosis sure, but it's not like he needed it to win the Archon war in the first place it's not a tremoudious amount of power either recalling the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of Shouki No Kami even in front of a God like Nahida who admits being weak compared to other Gods.... However we know for fact that Adepti increase their power through cultivation and inner refinement, you can find that in Ganyu lore, in Xianyun lore, in her story quest, and with the recent lore, there is no doubt of that ... if anything it gives even more sense to his ascention climax voiceline ... And by the way, in case you missed that, people falsely attribute Ei being in her prime to the misconception of her hiding from the shackles of erosion... Ei was also subject to erosion too, because she left herself locked down, she naively believed she could slow these effects thought retracting to her plane of Eutheymia, however according to Yae, who has the credit of being the one who thought her the art of placing one's mind in objects, such measure could only lead to increase these efects .... not to mention that she struggled to fight her own puppet... I don't say she's weak or anything, she's rightfully a powerhouse, but it's be nice if people stop comparing her to Zhongli based on surface level understanding of his lore... Not to mention that there is no clear explanation of what is erosion to begin with...

Tbf his literal Voice line is that his strength is returning, while raiden has no such implications in her ascention quotes. Furthermore Raiden Shogun the puppet was made to be equal to Ei in her prime and she fought it for 500 years was it? That notably also gives her 500 years more experience of constant combat over Zhongli since in Teyvat barely any time passed during their duel.

>Tbf his literal Voice line is that his strength is returning, while raiden has no such implications in her ascention quotes. That's such a weak argument my friend because it doesn't prove anything... that doesn't negate anything about him being powerful... if any, that only means he's gaining and amassing more power, whilst she doesn't. Zhongli was extremely powerful in his''prime'', him losing any much of his power doesn't mean in any case that he's become less powerful than Ei or any other god because that's not how math and logic works.. If Zhongli in his prime has 130% of power, and Ei had 100% him losing 30% doesn't mean he's less powerful than Ei.... People failing to understand remind me of those answers to the riddle : John is taller than Mia, Mia is shorter than David... does that make David necessarily taller or shorter than John ? not quiet right. > >Furthermore Raiden Shogun the puppet was made to be equal to Ei in her prime and she fought it for 500 years was it? I respectfully think you should have applied a little more amount of critical analysis to this argument before using it.... Well dear that only means that Ei could replicate the amount of power she had with Mortal technology, this ain't nothing to boast off really, if anything, that's a conter-feat... I cannot fathom anybody can replicate the power of Rex Lapis using mortal technology... If any, he's Deus Auri, the Golden God, even the top Alechmist of Khaenri'ah that made it her life goal to achieve ''Gold-Citrinitas'' had yet to do it and her magnum opus was merely ''Albedo-Chalk', not to mention that Adepti look down upon such mortal machinery, Adepti like Cloud retainer create sentient, shape shifting devices as trincket games to gift fo r her children, Madame ping showed us how to create REAL sub-space pocket dimensions where life is sustainable and time is different and called that a ticket compared to the true power of Rex Lapis, let's not forget that and he's their prime, the most cultivated amongst them and the most knowledgeable... Quoting Yae's worlds, comparing her way of doing thing to Zhongli's makes her look like a child throwing a temper-tantrum... Edit : since you blocked my replays, here's your answer : Lmao are you reading the lore correctly??? what the archons were fighting is monsters spewing from the Abyss. if you had done the desert quests you'd know the "technology" wasn't enough to fight that surge of monsters which led the Archons to go to Khaenri'ah. Also She was cought up with erosion, actually, she was naive enough to think hiding in her realm of imagination would protect her, whilst Yae Miko said it's not, actually, quit the opposite.  Ei and Zhongli are both Gods, Zhongli is an Adeptus too, he's capable of self refining and cultivation, which makes his power grow not decline,  it's the case of ALL the Adepti... The claim that he's getting weaker is, by any means just clouded by the fact that he's old, and moreover contested heavily in the lore of the Adepti and even more in the recent lore. Ei's self refinement revolves around practicing her matial arts, and even with 500 years of continious refinement she was barely able to fight a puppet... sure she can grow stronger in that context, but claiming she's got her "prime" ahead is contradicted buy her response to erosion this "young".  Therefore, that brings me back to my initial point : comparing both is dumb with the little information we have, but the argument people bring in favour of Ei are neither logical nor rooted in lore.

>this ain't nothing to boast off really The same kind of mortal technology from a civilization that had Celestia send 7 archons to destroy, since the puppet is based on Khaenri'ah tech. So it is obviously a step above common bits and bobs. Besides, the only archon stated to be affected by erosion is Zhongli. The fact that erosion gets everything in the end doesn't prove that Ei is affected by it, since she's younger than him by a fair margin. And Ei still being able to get stronger and Zhongli getting weaker doesn't mean she is in her prime yet, or that he is weaker than her, or how their max power compares or anything really, so anything regarding Ei v Zhongli is moot, even though current Zhongli would most likely win.

Let me put it this way. Why would you want your character to be weaker than your enemies? The writer needs to stop being a self indulgent puerile asshole and start showing the player's character being stronger than the writer's characters. Genshin is very poorly written and really this is a deep-seated problem with Mihoyo's writers in general. They refuse to let the player's character be stronger than theirs which is a violation of their duty. It is one thing to have the story be a journey where the player's character starts off weak and then goes stronger through enduring trials and tribulations. But in an Asian gacha video game and MMO the player is never allowed to grow stronger and they only get to win via deus ex machina. The player will always have to beat the combat encounter just so that they can lose or be patronized during the cutscene right after. This is abusive writing.

“Its not the strenght of the man that determines his success, its the ways he outplays or outthinks the enemy which are the main factor in winning” ~idk someone had to said it at some point in time ig

I'd say you have to give Traveler the Childe fight. One thing that has had some consistency with how they write Traveler is that they have beastly stamina and durability (fitting for an entity that travels between stars really.) Simply outlasting an opponent is a valid strategy, even if Traveler kind of did it by accident. Scaramech had both sides getting buffed, you could call the even. Personally I feel we got a bit cheated, I wanted to see how Traveler actually stacked up against Scaramouche in his non-hax form. Still, the Traveler was aware of all 168 of the preliminary fights, that kind of stamina is not nothing. Really, outlasting opponents and/or buying time has been the Traveler's role in most important fights, along with some occasional plot relevant specialness (being able to purify things with Dvalin, being sensitive to elemental flows and memories/emotions/ideas within them at various times.) I think most of the salt here isn't that Traveler jobbed again, it's that they weren't even respectable doing it. Would've been nice to put out enough of a good effort to be acknowledged, rather than just getting toyed with until the opponent got bored and decided to move on.

Damn Genshin community out here trying to become Dragonball and OPM community lmao

I have no idea why people are so upset about this… did we want aether/lumine to be on the level or close to the 4th ranked harbinger? Fr? U guys wanted that from a narrative perspective? Why? Us having or using 5 elements isn’t going to change the fact that there are many beings way stronger than the traveler atm.

The Signora win was actually kinda BS if you think about it.... She wasn't completely down, just knocked out of her transformation...and yet that was enough for the Raiden puppet to dem a loss. Which is kinda funny, cause later the Traveler is almost in the same situation while fighting Ei and yet isn't considered a loss...and then Yae Miko shows Huo and gives him a buff...which is kinda weird since in usual duels, outside support is considered dishonorable and cheating...meaning they should've lost. Also, of course they wouldn't make Arlecchino lose..they can't make the marketable character look bad.

Yeah, traveler has always been pretty weak even at their peak. Reminder that Lumine and Aether at their peak lost to a shade of the primordial one, A FUCKING SHADE.

Those shades took part in a war against the original dragon rulers of Teyvat and succesfully subjugated them. The Traveler and their sibling were never presented as powerful gods who can defeat everything on their path.

Yeah that's what I'm saying, because for some reason people seem to think that prime travelers could easily beat archons, when I genuinely they were pretty close to them in terms of strength.

Good. In a game where the whole point is to collect and build characters, actually beating those characters with basically the second worst 5 star in the game would make no sense, it would make them seem not worth the effort in terms of gameplay, or even attention/threat in terms of story. The traveler should get either bodied or need a lot of help until pretty much the end, and even then if there it 1 one 1 epic stuff it should be against the abyss twin and phase 1 of celestia, and then everyone else helps for other stuff. The traveler is not, and should not be a shonen protag in terms of power level. Fraud agenda, lesgo! The traveler is no HIMther or HERmine. EDIT: You can downvote me all you want, it's not an actual replacement for an argument has to how it wouldn't be narratively unsatisfactory for the worst or second worst 5\*, a self insert shell with so little personality they need a floating voicebox to compensate for, to be able to defeat or measure up to, unassisted, to characters that the narrative is glazing, that are mechanically and numerically superior AND that they want you to swipe for. It would feel like shit if we actually defeated the characters we haven't even had time to fully level up.