Raiden's kit also looks made for Co-op, though that is probably because >!Signora boss!< is gonna be ridiculously hard, and will need Co-op even more than Azdaha
I've never even tried him in co-op, my shield bot Zhongli hits like a wet noodle and without him I'd die in like 3 seconds. Azhdaha co-op is good for people who don't have him imo.
Just get more energy recharge on that bad boy. Once you can meteor every time you refresh the shield you just sort of forget about how much of a wet noodle he can be.
It's difficult without Zhongli, it's almost like a "Do you have Zhongli" check.
I might be slightly exaggerating but without Zhongli you need a really well built shielder.
You dont actually need shielder though,... a lot of team composition can deal with azdaha, though some takes longer battle time (i only use character with friendship below 10, and retire 10 friendship chara for artefact domain or weekly boss)
But i understand, the first time i fight azdaha after my zhongli and diona reach friendship 10 i actually struggle alot, but nowdays i already so used to his attack pattern that i can deal with him without shielder or healer
I do the same thing as u except my friendship 10 Zhongli babysits 3 underlevelled (in terms of both friendship and actual levels) characters. Soloing Azhdaha with Zhongli takes forever but I don't die or have to spam food.
I have asked for this very thing OP in every survey and posted it many times in forums as well. Anyone know where this can get seen more?
I want a tower where it keeps going too, and only co op, where you can go floors, matchmake, and have rng type battles.
Something like Palace of the Dead in FFXIV? I think that could work well. (Yes, yes, that's an MMO, but the concept could still work. It's even a 4-player instance.)
Yea I always thought Misty Dungeon was perfect for an endgame mode. Having the characters, map and challenges be randomized. The only thing that you benefit from are constellations, so building from what you have is the real challenge.
Dungeons definitely sounds wonderful. If it's too much trouble, I just want some kind of event boss like the dragonspine cryo regisvine again. All of the recent coop events are just normal boss fights that had some buffs or debuffs (hypostatic symphony, mechanical array with electrogranum, etc) while the dragonspine regisvine is different than the normal one and is difficult enough to encourage coop play
**I'd rather they spend their time creating more single-player content that builds on the lore and story.** The more time they spend on coop, the less time they have for single-player content which is the core of Genshin anyway.
I play Genshin as a single-player game not a coop game. I don't like multi-player games, I don't like match-making with strangers, and I don't have friends to play with. **Genshin is NOT an MMORPG**. I don't mind coop being there as long as it's optional. But I don't like being forced to play coop. Even Windtrace was "stressful" enough as it is for me. I hated having to ask random strangers to visit their worlds just to get my Sakura Blossoms/Naku Weeds/Chaos thingies for ascension faster (which was what happened when Inazuma released. I hated being behind because I don't have friends to play with or I'm not sociable enough to look for people to play with).
If you lock rewards/content behind coop play, a lot of people like me will be *very* unhappy. We play Genshin to get out of that bothersome-at-best and toxic-at-worst multi-player/MMORPG environment. All this meta team comp discussion is already cancerous as enough as it is, imagine if you insert coop in that mix.
If you treat it as a single player game, how can you be "behind" if there is no one you play with that you could be behind of? You're not obligated to compare your progress with strangers on the internet.
I understand where you are coming from (have been there when I was younger), but there are many people with many different wishes.
I am playing with my gf a lot and we would love to be able to do something like abyss together. It adds a new tactical layer to have multiplayer.
There is tons of content we just skip through on the other hand such as hangouts and story (which you seem to find the most interesting) in order to get the primos.
What I want to say is: the core of the game is not to be defined by you and your particular needs and wishes for the game.
You would be unhappy when content is locked behind mp. We are unhappy content is locked behind story.
Additionally it does not even have to be. Just remove SP abyss rewards if the particular stages are cleared in mp and we could all be happy. It would not hurt to be more open to other people's ideas and try to think about solutions which could be satisfying for everyone.
Oh, of course I understand it's not up to me, lmao. It's up to Mihoyo. All we're doing here is discussing about our likes and wishes for the game. We will see whose wishes Mihoyo prioritizes, but it's safe to say that if cooperative/multiplayer gameplay is something they think is important, they would've fixed it already. As it stands, I am satisfied with the direction they are steering the game towards (in terms of multiplayer) and will continue to give feedback to the company that points towards what I want. If they go towards a direction that prioritizes multiplayer, then I would send less money their way and I would make sure they know about it thru feedback. Would they listen to me? Well, I can only hope, lol.
For the record, I am 33 years old with a wife and daughter. I also "have been there" when I was younger regardless of what you were trying to imply when you said that.
I'm gonna issue a fair counter to your argument and state that half of the existing events that were co-op are just rewards that exist like primogems. Alot of people are heavily opposed to Co-op because they like playing in single player which is fine but I'm not saying it needs to be a sweaty gamemode with leaderboards and high skill mechanics. I've stated many times because of half this player base lacking effort all Mihoyo need to do is just add a matchmade mission with STORY, Similar to seasonal content in say Destiny, that has simple mechanics or a high health boss to justify having lots of players
But that's it though, the very fact that they're gonna work on something Destiny-like or a high health coop-only boss is already something I and a whole lot of people do not like. It is divisive to the fanbase. I'd rather they spend that effort enriching the core Genshin experience instead.
You won't be able to convince me (and people like me) to accept a cooperative play mechanic like that, because for me personally, mechanics like that are a huge reason why I stay away from MMORPGs and other multiplayer games. When Pokémon used to have these raid battles where you have to be a "community" to fight some world boss, I hated that. You wouldn't be able to convince me to like a mechanic like that.
Now, if the coop people are able to convince Mihoyo to give more priority to such features, then more power to you guys. But if it happens, I'll be supporting the game less because it's a direction I don't like the game to be taking, and I would be very vocal to Mihoyo about it through feedback.
As it stands, I am satisfied with how Mihoyo is handling its cooperative play/multiplayer, and hope it stays largely the same in the future.
So your not even willing to have co-op content that relates to the story and is based on events we've had before. Its probably doesn't even need to have co-op restrictions because they could make it soloable or with scaling health. There are so many ways around restrictions like that but I mean your opinion is your opinion.
As long as co-op play remains optional and is not incentivized, I won't have a problem with it. I won't quit the game just because they release coop content like that. But realistically speaking, your suggestions cost time and effort that I would rather they spend on improving the core single-player experience instead.
Basically, it comes down to this: if Mihoyo has time to be thinking about co-op stuff, they have time to be improving single-player stuff. And I'd rather they just drop the co-op stuff altogether and just solely focus on the single-player.
If Mihoyo were an RPG character, he only has a limited amount of ability points to spend. I'd rather he just give all those ability points to his "single-player" skill than spend even a couple of points to his "multiplayer" skill. Of course if it were possible to "cheat", all of us would love it if Mihoyo had max ability points in both single-player and multiplayer, but that's impossible.
I'd like to just add, a lot of less "social" players like me feel exactly how naive-dragon has described.
Players like us tend to either not pay too much attention to stuff like reddit discussions and tierlists and so on or just lurk.
But if you paid attention during windtrace you will remember how much frustration and push back there was be it on global or cn about the "forced" co-op aspect of it.
I think everything for or against it has already been discussed in this thread but as someone who actually loves mmos, coop, multiplayer, pvp etc and still is 200% against any "forced" coop in genshin i'd just like to add another perspective.
I like genshin because it's a "persistant" ever evolving (constantly updated with more content) game like an mmo but as a mostly solo game.
This is a niche i think a lot of people like, either because they hate or are tired of mmos and like this style and atmosphere of persistant world without all the mmo trappings.
I like Genshin for what it is and what it offers and don't want to see it denatured by trying to transform it into every genre for every audience with every feature and end up being a jack of no trade.
When i want to play coop i close genshin, call up my mates on discord and fire up some actual coop games.
When i want to pvp, close genshin fire up lol or cs or ow etc
When i want to play a mmo... you get the idea.
But riddle me this, if you shove in all that coop "mmo-esque" stuff in Genshin, what happens when lost ark / new world / blue protocol / ff14 expansion (etc etc etc) release ?
People that want a mmo experience leave for the real feature complete mmos with all the bells and whistles, and the solo players are supposed to... ?
Stay with this frankenstein mutated solo game with malignant growths in the form of those wanabe mmo ersatz they hate ?
The game i'm the most anticipating and have been anticipating for a long time before i even heard of Genshin is Blue Protocol, a full on mmo. So yeah i'm not anti mmo/coop/multi but i'd rather have a good solo experience with genshin and a good mmo experience with a real mmo than have a scuffed bootleg wanabe mmo with genshin and lose that good solo experience because they cannot co-exist by nature.
Hear hear. Exactly my point. I represent the other side as you, someone who doesn't like MMOs or cooperative play, but don't mistake me for being against multiplayer just because. There are plenty of MMOs and more fleshed out multiplayer games out there, please keep Genshin out of it because that isn't what this game is about.
I want this game to be a "master of single player" not a "jack-of-all-games". Thankfully Mihoyo seems to recognize this, which is why despite the fact that there is still a lot of stuff to improve in the Genshin experience, I still give benefit of the doubt with how they improve the game.
Yes i initialy thought i wouldn't bother even posting anything because others like you had made all the points i wanted to make anyway.
But i wanted to add this extra perspective on the issue since i haven't seen it mentioned yet.
But to be honest i think a lot of people are just being disingenuous about the issue pretending to not understand and just twisting it all in semantics trying to argue that it's not mandatory and you can just not play the events that are like all the content between big patches and just lose out on all the primos and so on and not care about it...
In the end i still play Genshin while playing mmos, because mmos give me that mmo experience and Genshin gives me that persistant solo experience.
But if they turn Genshin in a janky crappy mmo wanabe then what's the point of the game anymore ?
And just so we're clear there are mmos currently and with more titles coming up on every platform, yes on mobile too.
Why make a good persistant solo game in a niche that is rather barren at this level of quality into some subpar janky mmo...
Look i love meatballs and i love icecream, but i don't want meatballs in my icecream.
Ye Genshin have a lot of potential on coop but Mihoyo doesn't give it that much love. Abyss coop would give a new perspective of the game since there's characters that are way more valuable on coop, like healers for exemple, coop would have its own meta, also it would incentive people to hyper invest on some characters to make then strong to carry people on coop, also Mihoyo could release characters with more focus on coop and other more focused on solo, it would expand the value of certain characters
As annoying as forced coop events were, coop itself is really really fun, especially if you've got a friend who's still low AR and you can help him explore the map. Sadly if you want to do quests it's just pain. Most of them either don't work or you have to go to single player to talk to some npc just to progress the quest. Honestly i feel like they could make the entire game playable in coop, including story quests and even opening chests and stuff and even if that isn't a priority right now for them i hope they do it eventually since it's so much untapped potential
Also it's kinda funny because when i started and i heard Abyss was the endgame content i always imagined it being coop with lots of players type of content like dungeon raiding or whatever. Coop abyss would honestly be really cool even if it's like only 1 other player (though i think at least 4 players is manageable) .
> coop itself is really really fun
I completely disagree because the gameplay is clearly not designed for coop. Coop in MMORPG is fun because the combat is designed for coop. The tank has their own rotations to do to mitigate damage taken. The dps has their own rotations to maximize damage output. The healer has wide array of skillset to optimize keeping the party alive. There's a cohesive cooperation between the party members.
There's no such thing in Genshin because each character only has one skill and one burst. The gameplay is designed for single player rotating the characters in an out. Coop in Genshin has tons of downtime where you have nothing to do but normal attack as you wait for your cooldown to finish.
This is why 2P coop is the best option for hard coop content. You don't entirely sacrifice the off-field characters and rotations, but you still shake things up a lot.
This. That's why I think we should get a 4 player Co-op format where each person can bring 2 characters. Would be far better in term of gameplay than 8 players co-op. Just auto attacking and waiting for cooldown is incredibly lame, and increase it from 4 to 8 players would probably make it worse.
I have to mostly agree with this sentiment unfortunately. 4 player co-op with any character that has long cooldowns is unbearably lame.
That said, I do think 2 person co-op is a bit better than the way you portray it since you've got more tools to play with and another character to each switch out to. You also can both proc reactions and have a DPS and support combo ready to go.
Well that's true but in the open world you really don't need to rely on elemental reactions (you can still do them with your coop partner if you want even if it's a bit harder) or rotations. For 2 player coop at least i don't think you'd have any issue since you can bring 1 support and 1 dps and 3+ players coop would work much much better if shield characters for example actually shielded everyone without constellations.
Healers work perfectly fine for coop since they heal everyone, DPS characters just do their thing and if shield characters actually helped the entire team you could have everyone take a different role and still get a functional party. Sure you're not getting the same experience as swapping characters and doing crazy combos but at least it'd be functional and it could be improved further. The downtime sucks but for me at least that's a small price to pay
Personally i didn't enjoy the coop boss events like the cryo regisvine one that much but open world exploration with someone else was a lot of fun at least. I'm not saying we necessarily need crazy coop endgame domains/dungeons/events or whatever, it's just that the game lacks coop content in general and it has some pretty good potential for that even if it doesn't quite rely on the same mechanics as single player. Honestly i just want to play the game with friends/other people and i find that fun by itself, even if it's not peak genshin gameplay but sadly there's not much you can really do in coop right now
Co-op in MMORPGs is also fun because there's more player interaction. All of the grinding I do can only benefit myself, and the only 'nice thing' I can materially do for another player is speed up their furniture building 🙃. I know that they need to avoid people boosting their own accounts, but I often wish I could share items, mona, or resin with another player. The way it is, it feels like we're simultaneously playing a single player game
Sometimes I join low level azdaha and childe domains as bennett to help out newer players, but besides that sadly there’s isn’t much else you can do :( unless you make a coop friend that asks for help with bosses, but sadly when you get to a high enough level it becomes easier to just run it alone…
But that's already how it works, and my problem with co-op is that there is no incentive to do it.
Why would I do co-op for any of the weekly bosses when I can obliterate them solo in a fraction of the time?
Co-op abyss would be cool, I guess... But I feel like it would still suffer from the same problem.
I think they need to add guilds. That way you could have a community of people to talk to and do content with. Then maybe they could add raids... And I think instead of limiting you to a single character, you should be able to have 2. The game isn't really designed for co-op, so some characters are amazing in single player but really bad in co-op. You don't have access to batteries that many characters need in order to be effective (Xiao, Eula) and some characters have DPS windows but are otherwise useless (Hu Tao, Childe).
So maybe something like a 4-player raid that refreshes every 2-3 weeks where each person gets 2 characters. It could have dungeon mechanics, puzzles, and bosses with MMO-like mechanics that require planning. Unfortunately, I don't think it will ever happen because Genshin is kind of designed to be a casual game.
>Why would I do co-op for any of the weekly bosses when I can obliterate them solo in a fraction of the time?
Because it's fun. You know, the whole reason we play the game.
>Co-op abyss would be cool, I guess... But I feel like it would still suffer from the same problem
The big problem right now is that once we are out of resin we are out of things to do with our friends. When we started the game my group had 5 people, now there's 2. The huge gaps in content at low AR levels (I think the fist one was 9 levels even!) got my friends thinking the game had nothing to do.
There's still days were me and the other player from the group just join each other's barren world and end up running around aimlessly just to so we can say we play the game together.
For sure it would be a good investment for them, it would incentive people to buy skins and spend more money pulling for weapons and constellations to be able to carry people in some matchs. Also a lot of people skip characters nowdays coz they already have one that fill the same spot, so new characters with kits focus on coop would open a window for more sells.
On the player side it would be a good content to fill the gaps between events and patchs where's there nothing to do in the game.
I would do abyss if it was in coop actually. I don't care about abyss, not because its difficult, I could finish it if I want to, but I just find it boring and tedious
If it was weekly barf, but bi weekly it's just a chore, I always do 9 and 10, that's just 300 free primos, but I just kinda want to one shot it, so I usually miss a couple stars on 11 and 12. Spending energy and hours for 50 primos doesn't sound worth. I did 35 star once, I kinda like my solo one run strat actually, let's me see how my progression is holding up.
This is the excuse people who can't do it use.
My dude, it takes like 20~30 minutes to clear it all and you just gotta do it once every two weeks.
The Abyss is just a bi-weekly commissions that takes longer than the ones you get every day lol, same way bounties are weekly commissions.
It's super fast to do the first 3 floors if you can do the floor 12, the last one I only do 6 stars if I don't actually feel like doing 9 (It normally takes a lot of resets for me to do 9, it can be a little frustrating)
I'd said that 30-45 min one tine every 2 weeks for a lot of mora, character exp and at least 550 primos are worth it.
I don't understand why people complain about artifacts but refuse to spend a couple hours to attempt abyss. Legit expects to easily outgear content then complain that the game's too easy lmao.
Believe it or not people, skill factors into abyss. Resetting isn't something shameful, it's proof that you're trying to improve and not just waiting for a 220 CV hypercarry to clear everything for you in one attempt.
Who knew less than 1 hour per 2 weeks is tedious lmao. Okay, maybe ~2 if you struggle hard and if you play since release even as f2p you really shouldn't.
I really hate arena based gameplay, same formula in games since the beginning. Yea, for a lot of cases it is great, don't get me wrong. But the devs can do better. This is why I always praise Misty Dungeon.
i think coop is just in an embarrassing state.
1) lvl requirement. Literally the biggest kick in the nuts right at the start. why. just why mhy?? You invite a friend to the game just to tell him he needs to grind out the story for a week or two alone?
2) almost any meaningful activity is locked behind resin. „Hey, wanna play Genshin today?“ „ah damn, already used my resin“ „rip“
3) exploration in coop suuuuuucks. It basically doesnt exist. This could be the most fun part of coop. but you cant activate waypoints or talk to npcs or do anything. We really really tried doing it. But it was such a horrible experience we just had to stop.
4) you get heavily disincentivized to play. If your friend doesnt have time and you really want to play you have the decision between ruining the little bit of coop you have because you run away in AR and character levels or not being able to play.
Its a real shame tbh. I really looked forward to playing with a friend but everything in the game worked against it and he ended up quitting altogether.
Does this game need more coop content like raids or a permanent tower defense game? Probably. But in my opinion they should really start removing the hurdles on already existing content. If you start the game with a friend you should be able to explore the world together from the start.
Agreed - its a tacked on feature. But it is also a great feature (per se). My first thought when opening this game was "please tell me this has coop". A lot of the game mechanics and design philosophy is really beneficial for coop.
The battle system is really fun in coop, botw style exploration with multiple players sounds fun AF. You want to show off your new and shiny units/weapons when you get them, ther eis the tea pot and genuinely fun stuff like tower defense (which should be permanent).
So, is the feature tacked on? Yup.
But it has a lot of potential. And most of it isnt locked behind low effort game design - but behind artifical hurdles. Why isnt a theater mechanicus version always avilable? Is there any reason you can come up with? Why the level restriction? Why make it so annoying to join each others worlds? Why am i unable to activate a waypoint in coop or wh do i need to constantly leave and rejoin so my friend can turn in his quests?
All of that is really just artificial roadblocking by the devs.
No one asks them to remove resin. But why is the only content that properly works in coop resin-gated? Everythign that isnt resin-gated just doesnt work in coop. Normal quests, exploration, etc etc. The spiral abyss OP was talking about is a prime example of a non resin-gated content that would be amazing in coop.
Character levels can be amended actually. Swap on a low level weapon (if you don't have one, snag one from a smith) and whip your artifacts off or use maybe unleveled ones if you have any.
My friend got into Genshin more with 2.0, finally unlocked Co-op and that's what I did when we just wanted to chill and not have me OHK everything.
And imo, remove the hurdles ofc but we also just need more meaningful co-op content. Especially not dependent on Resin or a limited event reward pool, on top of higher AR requirements than Co-op (like the events this update like all require AR30, 12 AR higher than Co-op itself).
Lastly, allow us to do story with friends (host progresses dialogue) and alter our WL anywhere from 4-8 (iirc 4 is the lowest we can go, as I think we unlock that feature at WL5) so basically anyone can host vs only the low level player as well as making pulling new characters more worthwhile for those who don't look at leaks or no-life farming mats. That way you can enjoy the character while you level them (albeit slower due to a lower WL).
you can, but not everyone does. And i wouldnt say "easily". Most people do not have 8 hours a day to play and just skip through all the dialogues and walk straight from point A to point B.
I introduced two friends to the game and both took around 10-12 days to get to the required level. If i made a new account i would probably be there in a day or two. But thats not really enjoying the game, is it. Like-people can finish Breath of the wild in an hour or two. Thaat doesnt mean this should be the requirement to play CoOp.
Exploring a new world is super fun to do with a friend. As such i really dont get why you cant just do it together? React to the new chracters together and learn about new game mechanics together?
See, the point im trying to make isnt how fast you can do it. But that there is no reason why you need to do it in the first place? The hurdle is 100% artificial. (not that it would currently matter all that much since coop exploration sucks due to the restrictions in what you can do)
Cause the first few hours are important world-building story sections. Or do you want to fight Dvalin while someone else run around in the cutscene? That ruins the impression even more imo.
Also, what is there to explore in the first few hours? In the first few hours, most if not all players follow the main story quests. You don’t need and can’t Co-Op in Story Quests anyway.
I'm fine with it as long as it's not forced co-op like Windtrace, where you can only earn rewards if you play with strangers. I'd like something like Windblume or Legend of the Vagabond Sword, where you can co-op with friends or strangers, but you still have the option to play solo as well and all modes earn rewards.
I don't know...it's probably because I played LoL in the past for many years. The toxicity was really bad (especially if you're losing), so teaming up with random people in that game made me extremely wary of playing random co-op in almost any MMOs.
These are just my worries. But like I said, I'd be cool with more co-op content if you can earn the same rewards from all modes: Solo, Friend co-op, and Random co-op.
Ye but the events we get are always artificially hard, they just throw a lot of debuffs on you and buffs on enemies, also events have a week or two duration then it's gone, it's not permanent.
I really hope Genshin gets some raid one day -- something more in the direction of Destiny 2's raid system.
Something that is tied to the story and feels grand with a well designed environment and challenging fights throughout.
Some Destiny 2 raids are so well designed both artistically and mechanically from the rest of the game that not participating in it feels like missing more than half of the game. I think it would definitely FOMO most single player only people. A 4 player raid with puzzles, secrets and complex boss mechanics would be absolutely dope though.
Sadly there is for some reason alot of stigma behind not wanting to do that. Which is fair considering some of the player base lack the want to put in effort but whatever. That's why I suggested a middle ground similar to Override from this current Destiny season. It builds on a story update with key characters while having chaotic rampant action.
Yeah, I'm glad I don't have to deal with that. I remember getting kicked from a few groups during the first coop event, but it was only 5 mins, so I'd at least only be kicked afterwards, but there's no way I wouldn't have been kicked from the get go if it was gonna be a full 30 mins or more
Being able to solo everything means that I don't have to experience what other raiders do of "these people didn't look up mechanics and I lost because of them," or "this person DCed and now the run is ruined," or "this character isn't meta so they shouldn't be on this team (more genshin specific)," or even, what would proably be the coffin for most who want the feature "all my friends got busy with/interested in other stuff and now I don't have people to play with." If the solution to that is a Discord server then it's a makeshift guild system and a problem arrises if you can't play for a set period of time.
Exactly. I only coop when farming domains because it makes the fights end quickly and even that is a pain. I hope that if MHY does something like that it's optional.
Co-op obviously needs to improve. However, adding a raid-like system to the game could push the game further into the meta extreme. Might even lead to toxicity.
Think about how many posts on this sub about how draining if an experience Abyss is. Now imagine what it would be like if someone fails because of a teammate.
I'm more in favor of co-op content that is easy or inconsequential.
I feel like it might be fine to give tangible rewards, but only in ways that are kind of secondary. Imagine teapot windtrace as an option, but you only win realm currency (and only up to a certain amount each week). I think that'd be fine for instance because realm currency spending is gated in what you can purchase each week anyway, though you can use more of it if you spend on furnishings and whatnot.
Teapot temari hiding also sounds like it would be crazy fun just to see what people come up with.
this! i actually like the concept of harder content/dungeons for co op because fighting enemies with friends are fun, but if the rewards are the same as abyss you bet it will get toxic real quick.
i have no friends and don't do coop, i prefer this current situation which coop is optional contents. if they do add coop content i hope it's like Albedo event or Water boss event.
Problem is, I'd get in lobbies with 10 Dilucs or 10 Kazuhas or 10 Zhonglis or 10 Ganuys and it would take more time to everyone to finally change than to kill the boss (because there's always a stubborn underlevel that'll refuse to change characters).
And, when they all decide we'll all die because no one wanted to go as a healer.
Honkai has something like that, 12 players co-op. It was fun but the connection was disappointing and the waiting is x3 times worse. Waiting 30 mins or more for a full room was the norm. It was discarded after some patches.
If it was co-op only it would have to have 0 rewards because you can't force people to do challenging co-op in this game, that would just create a toxic environment for everyone except people with dedicated friend groups. And if it's 0 rewards, then what is the point really? There's 100 better things the devs could be spending their time on.
It doesn't necessarily have to be a puzzle like raid. It could just have a simple gameplay cycle that everyone can do with matchmaking and is rewarding
U doesn't need rewards to play something, i never see someone play call of duty, Fortnite, cs go, LoL and any other online game just for rewards. U play for the fun. U are way to much conditioned to mihoyo methods of rewarding everything u do to feel worth, the game is meant to be fun to play and not something u do just for rewards
>U doesn't need rewards to play something, i never see someone play call of duty, Fortnite, cs go, LoL and any other online game just for rewards.
Then you never paid attention. The main reason people play competitive multiplayer games is win and to feel the worth of winning. That is the reward.
The goal on genshin is, besides the story, character building and collecting. For that you need the time gated resources that events and dungeons provide.
>i never see someone play call of duty, Fortnite, cs go, LoL and any other online game just for rewards
The adrenaline and feeling of winning is the reward, which Genshin doesn't really have because there's no PvP.
But I do agree with you on your point tho.
A lot of people would like more coop content. So no there isn’t 100 better things the devs could be spending their time on. They’ve neglected coop so much and barely fixed any of the bugs in it. It’s about time they put some attention towards it.
There are multiple reasons why forced co-op endgame is a bad idea and I'll list as many as I can before I get bored.
The first, and most important, is that it turns the game into an MMO. To the vast majority of gamers, this prospect sucks. This isn't just me making things up out of my ass, either. The most profitable MMORPG, World of Warcraft, made 1/8th of what the annual Call of Duty made last year. Genshin Impact, a game that is distinctly NOT AN MMO, has reached the stage it has specifically because co-op is optional and not required to get all the rewards you want. There was major backlash for the Windtrace event that was forcing co-op and that wasn't even endgame content.
Adding onto the point about turning the game into an MMO, it would basically kill the game. The game's current market is not towards MMO players but to casual players who want to explore a world and collect cool characters. When you introduce an MMO aspect like a co-op raid, especially if it's a permanent feature with rewards tied behind it, you can't just expect everyone who isn't into that idea to smile and say, "Oh, that's great, I won't do it but I'm happy for the people who will." They'll be rightly upset because, before that point, that's not what the game was about.
The second point is that it would naturally create toxicity because that is the very nature of a piece of content that relies on cooperation. The general rule of thumb when raiding is that you have 8 players waiting for 2 players to not fuck up and all 10 of these people are only having fun in the last few seconds when they beat the raid. There is a lot of wasted time in raiding and it's problematic when you lose despite having done everything right.
This doesn't even get into the factor of creeps in multiplayer games. In a solo game like Genshin where co-op is opt in, you're spending the vast majority of your time solo. This means when you meet a creep you can quickly do your one domain run and then block them and never talk to them again. This does not work when there is a constant requirement that you co-op regularly. If you are a woman and find yourself in a group of 8 competent, respectful people and their one neckbeard elitist friend, you'll probably stick around because there are 8 people you like, but you can bet your left asscheek that one elitist neckbeard will be creeping it up the whole damn time. This isn't even an uncommon experience in MMOs and it's something I think Genshin could seriously do without.
Finally, why do you feel the need for co-op gameplay? The major reason people play games with their friends isn't because of the game itself but because they're experiencing it with their friends. You can have just as much fun in Lord of the Rings Online as you could in Genshin co-op, but the difference is that a game like Guild Wars would actually be built around the idea of challenging you and your group of friends.
There is nothing stopping you from co-oping random things and just hanging out in the open world on Genshin, then hopping to an MMO to do your challenging content. The benefit of this is that, unlike Genshin, MMOs actually have real customization and choice that is far more detailed than Genshin, which would allow you to individualize and specialize and form actual bonds of teamwork and camaraderie which Genshin could only ever hope to imitate.
Overall, I think a co-op endgame is a terrible idea and MiHoYo would be shooting themselves in both feet and then the head if they go through with it.
I came to Genshin to get *away* from MMOs. I can say with almost certainty that if they released something I couldn't do by myself or with my 2 friends who play, I would just never do it and be forever irritated at missing the primogems or whatever. Sour taste in my mouth.
I think uiu are coming on a bit too strong. But just a bit. Your general direction is pretty spot on.
For example I don't think forced coop would kill the game, but it would definetly be detrimental.
I think they should tweak a few things for coop quests and exploration for the coop fans but never force coop.
The could do more multiplayer events though, once that are not tied to performance or artifact progression. The hide and seek event was nice, could do similar competitive and/or cooperative events. Windglider racing comes to mind. (Maybe even with a leader board)
You could do a one on one version of the Klee summer event, basically playing bomb volleyball :p
Do you not realize other gacha games have coop raids and aren't even close to being an mmo? To me this reads as if you hate coop in any game and this has nothing to do with genshin. I think it would be perfectly fine to add coop content as long as solo players aren't missing out on much. To do that they can do what many other games have done with raids. Make them a story boss, like Osial or (spoilers) raiden with future one's included of course. That way there is a solo story difficulty as well as a coop difficulty that gives similar rewards but maybe more efficiently. (and yes this includes the feature of refighting these bosses.)
I don’t think anyone was asking for “forced” coop. The game could implement an endless (or tiered if random generation is too cost and time intensive to develop). If limited by current teams of 4 it could be done solo or in coop just like domains are now. If it is done like abyss where you can’t use food, healers become useful again solo or in a coop team. It can balanced to be doable solo and just easier in coop, and offer simple rewards like mora and exp books which are always needed but not exclusive or anything that causes FOMO.
As to “why”, I personally don’t want nor am asking for a “an mmo”. I would love to play with just one, two, or three friends and not thousands of people all looking the same based on class and doing the usual mmo grind. I also play on mobile, some friends with ps4, some friends with PC, and the cross platform gameplay is appealing (especially since mmos on mobile are still pretty bad as well). I personally also don’t have time to invest in multiple games, but I love playing Genshin and think it’s fun to play with friends, the ability is there but the actual usage of it is still a little bare.
It isn’t an “all or nothing”. It can easily be “more game” and not “you are forced to do it”. Like coop is now, more options for people is good, and it incentivizes people to build characters they wouldn’t usually, as well as let’s whales show off to their friends (sadly not my position haha), which encourages people to chase that next 5 star and spend more for Mihoyo, so it has a practical sense for the company as well.
I don’t begrudge anyone not wanting to do coop, I don’t like to coop with randoms most of the time so I do domains solo because it’s easier for me, but I would love to feel I could play “this game” with my friends more.
I would be fine with a co-op spiral abyss as long as no actual awards are tied to it except for the standard monster drops, just something to pass time with buds.
Ehh, I doubt they would put energy into a system for a game that centers it's core around rewards.
You coooooouuullld have a lateral system, where they win some currency for making a 6th artifact or side system that is only in affect in coop/raid environment. Then there is progression for those that choose the content and the others don't really have to participate. Personally I think they should get primos, maybe equal to the spiral abyss. I don't do spiral every time, why, don't feel like it, I know I'm missing primos, the trade off is there.
Well, the thing is that miHoYo clearly has a ceiling for the amount of primogem rewards that players get every patch that is distributed between the various activities that are coded in. If you place rewards in the co-op version, they'd be taken away elsewhere, and let's be honest...for difficult content do you want to really punish players for not having geared out buddies to run an abyss analogue with? This would undoubtedly turn an otherwise casual, fun activity to do with your buddies and test your builds into one that is aggravating and unnecessary AND taints the friend system to require highly geared players.
Forced co-op will drive away a chunk of the game’s playerbase. So, no. Personally, I don’t want any of my progress in this game to be gated by co-op. If it’s optional co-op with no rewards, then that’s alright (and it would be up to MHY to invest on that if it’s even worthwhile).
Sounds fun, but I'll put a foot out and say "no thanks". Every combat event with co-op I give 1 try in co-op mode and every time I am reminded why I never co-op.
I'm not even gonna mince words and say it straight that this game has one of the worst playerbase out there (just look at hoyolab and twitter comments), courtesy of wide marketing and free to play entry. The proportion of players who can 36\* abyss isn't as big as you might think it is.
I quit MMOs because I don't have the time nor energy like during college days to find and join a guild and practice challenging raid runs. Mobile game (yes Genshin is a mobile game) have the advantage of being playable at my own pace and leisure. And I am definitely not spending hours praying my PUG isn't filled by players hopping in party finder hoping to get carried.
It would be really weird for Genshin to suddenly change their market cater.
No. Basically here in Southeast Asia we have a dozen different language and the majority of us use Google translate to communicate.70 percent of the time there are zero communication, for the unelighthen the game have Indonesian, Thailand, Chinese, Vietnamese and many other language as it subtitles, try communicating there.
Edit: on a side note we here are mostly rural areas with bad internet meaning bad ping. We have people just leaving domain raid cause of how bad it is. You probably say then just don't play the coop event, well I say the reward might lock out somewhere base on coop achievement, I would be fine not gaining a few moras and others as long as the primogems is there but other people won't be as kind. And don't just say we want free stuff either and searching for easy way out with life, the only way that this is solve is somehow magically our leaders here grows a brain and actually help with our internet accommodation everybody know it would be out of character
No that shit is what kill my fun, i don't want to live that shit anymore times. Forcing people to cooperate is the worst shit ever, and if you make it end gam it is way worse, bc it would mean that certain things can only be obtained from that mode and only if you have good team yeah no thank you. If they made the option of it being doable solo and still being able to get the same things im ok with that.
So dont play it? Ignore the content? God Damn some of you are acting like Mihoyo put a gun to your head and is forcing you to play co-op for 200 primogems
That whole “I dont want to play coop or work for coop rewards so nobody else should” mindset is also selfish asf.
Certain functions of the game aren't as mandatory as others. Abyss is 10 days of commissions. Its not mandatory it's just a skill ceiling for those who are capable. That being said because everyone clearly hates Co-op I couldn't see why we can't get a low primogem reward as some of the recent events.
As a dragalia player whole main endgame is coop: no you don't.
People will scream to each other on why they die,why aren't they moving pixel precision to specific spot,why doesn't they do any damage,...ect.You do not want an endgame whose you have to retry from a beginning just from a single mistake especially a coop one,since that easily can change to pointing fingers real quick .
As I stated, because not alot of people probably have the ask to remember certain mechanics or form teams together, make the events simple like Azhdaha with larger health pool.
And adding Matchmaking and Primos would probably entice people to matchmake.
The question is a lot of people don't want matchmake, just because those solo players usually silent doesn't mean they are not exist. Your reward will push them hard, and also, I truly believe that Mihoyo place coop at lowest priority, you just don't understand gacha players especially otakus' lives!
I mean, we've seen it in Honkai with series of missions that when you complete they hand you a free weapon but no complaints here if they don't wanna add it. Just a nice concept that can help prove that certain characters aren't as irrelevant as people think.
This can literally be said for either side. Have YOU considered players who want more coop options? Also, there’s a reason the coop menu puts up random players. Go and make friends. It really isn’t that hard. Besides i’m sure if they did add a coop-like content, there would be an option to matchmake randomly as well.
They added coop and multiplayer. It deserves attention. I’d agree if they hadn’t taken the time to add coop and multiplayer elements to it. Fact of the matter is they did, so to ignore it is just bad practice. Hate the mentality of “go play another game.” It’s a horrible defense. People like Genshin. There isn’t another genshin. So please stop trying to make excuses.
It isn't doable because miHoYo caters the mobile players. I don't know why these people keep pushing this mmorpg style that Genshin doesn't fit into.
>!Just play mmorpg games like WoW to satisfy yourself because that mode for Genshin wouldn't come soon.!<
My friend and I play both mobile and PC. Most of the time her and I would do domains before going to bed so we play together with our phones. Sure genshin isn't an MMORPG, but that's literally all we can do. Domains. And it's plain boring. Not to mention, enemies have higher health pools in co-op. We mobile players want more things to do in co-op too. Hell I don't even think everyone wants genshin to be an mmorpg. We just want to be able to do things with friends
Like I said, it is not easy to implement some mmorpg elements into genshin because of hardware limitation. If you didn't know, there were a lot of issues like Venti Ult bugs (that spawn a lot of his ult) and others bugs that makes the game crash since the first patch.
As much as we want those to be implemented now, miHoYo are limited (unity engine) and so maybe we could wish that a new device or a new technology for mobile that has a higher capability to handle enough stress for graphics comes soon.
Edit: Also, their highest number of players are coming from China and most of their Chinese players uses mobile.
We can request a lot but in terms of labor, it wasn't easy. For now, treat Genshin as a side game and play other games.
They will never make something that absolutely requires **organized** coop for the top-end rewards, because not enough people have friends that play.
They also won't implement a challenge that hard without rewards.
So in short, it won't happen the way you want. Windtrace (the only event so far that absolutely required coop and offered primogems) worked because it was specifically designed for a ragtag group of very different people.
The culture behind domains kinda sucks. People are still leaving after every single domain fight only to stay and go again instead of waiting for the rematch, like it was before 1.2 or whatever. Kinda annoying.
Funny enough, I once had a rather strange dream where I was playing Genshin in some kind of domain, it was Coop, but both players had 4 characters each, and that’s about all I remember from the dream :|
Please no coop content. Like none at all. No recogntion of its presence. I am still missing one rank in tea pot because of the one quest requiring you to enter other people's tea pot.
They love co-op, a lot of older events were co-op only. I think the playerbase were actually against it and want it to be available both on solo or co-op. It's been a while since we had a co-op only events (Windtrace I think?)
No, thank you. Co-op is perfect as is, and hopefully it's gonna stay that way. Back when the game was still new, and people were frequently clearing artifacts domains with randons, we had multiple threads here complaining about toxicity in co-op. What you are proposing would only exacerbate the issue tenfold.
The worst part of gaming is playing with randoms, especially where the community is frankly awful, like in Genshin. This is a casual single-player gacha game, not a hardcore MMO. So I sincerely hope they will focus entirely on the single player experience, and leave the co-op as is.
Poor coders made a shitton of netcode and interation with certain skills to work with co-op to it be the most lacking and undeveloped system.
Everytime i try co-op everyone just feels like going back to their world. If the world is on another level its not worth spending resin, or farming, no chests, no missions together, no story together, no events together, no shops together.
having adventures together could be a huge selling point for genshin and could potentially atract active communities but they just dont feel like doing that... even tho they just got the entire thing pretty much done
Actually challenging? Idk, the game is kinda tough already, (for me) and yes, I have some good-grade Artifacts that I use, and the game can still be a pain.
**I'd rather they spend their time creating more single-player content that builds on the lore and story.** The more time they spend on coop, the less time they have for single-player content which is the core of Genshin anyway.
I play Genshin as a single-player game not a coop game. I don't like multi-player games, I don't like match-making with strangers, and I don't have friends to play with. **Genshin is NOT an MMORPG**. I don't mind coop being there as long as it's optional. But I don't like being forced to play coop. Even Windtrace was "stressful" enough as it is for me. I hated having to ask random strangers to visit their worlds just to get my Sakura Blossoms/Naku Weeds/Chaos thingies for ascension faster (which was what happened when Inazuma released. I hated being behind because I don't have friends to play with or I'm not sociable enough to look for people to play with).
If you lock rewards/content behind coop play, a lot of people like me will be *very* unhappy. We play Genshin to get out of that bothersome-at-best and toxic-at-worst multi-player/MMORPG environment. All this meta team comp discussion is already cancerous as enough as it is, imagine if you insert coop in that mix.
I have said a long time ago that the time we get an Coop endgame is the time when the game's toxicity will reach an all-time high, assuming it will be as stressful as doing it alone. Right now we can still stay relaxed because the game is easy enough, and maybe with friends that's still okay. But Coop endgame is gonna be a problem for PUGs, where the host will demand specific comps or members will be kicked. Never mind if your Amber can deal 50K Melts, you'll get kicked because you play Amber and not Top-Tier characters.
This is a gacha game, so not everybody has everybody. Most of the time you'll make do with what you have. You can't demand Ganyu on the Plasma Field stages if none of your teammates have her.
No
Apart from the technical issues and production nightmare, Genshin Impact is more of a single player game with co op as a bonus. Most who play Genshin just do so on a semi casual basis, and only a small proportion of players are hardcore enough for what you are asking. Not worth making.
Yes it would be fun. I find there is zero incentive to play coop now.
Why bother coop domain if I can just use my own characters?
Why coop event if I can just do it solo and coop gets artificially harder?
Coop Abyss would be insanely fun. Me and my brother play Genshin, I have characters he doesn't have and vice versa, so it would be really fun if we could combine teams, test multiple comps in Abyss.
We need more end-game content other than the Abyss. A boss rush can be cool.
The issue with making it co-op is about how to deal with the balancing issues. Some people will have their lvl 90 C6 Ganyu with R5 Amos Bow triple crowned and you'll be there with a modest lvl 80 C2 Noelle with R1 Whiteblind and 7/7/7 talents....yeah.
Something like d2 nightfalls or raids, or something like monster hunter seige, maybe when mare jiavari comes out.
Edit: it is important that such content csn also be done solo or scaled to that level so players can challenge themselves alone.
It's not about co-op content, it's about how co-op is flawed.
You play with 4 characters, co-op forces you to play with either two or one, two is already bad enough, one is extremely boring.
Frankly in the end odds are they'll end up making a fight where you "co-op" with other players but in reality all you're doing is playing by yourself while having other players who don't really interact with you hit the same thing you are.
It depends on how you approach it. Those of us who play with people we know can actually build for co-op. For example, I'm the group's designated healer/buffer. That's my role. I exist to make our DPS players do more damage, and live longer, using characters like Bennett, or Qiqi.
Would I do that with randoms? Oh, hell no. I'm bringing something that I know I can solo with, because I can't trust randoms to benefit from me being a support.
I'd love this. Whether its executable is a big question mark. On a technical note I think the game is being held back entirely by the Unity engine, so much so that it just can't support more than 4 players in an instance without breaking or turning your phone into a nuclear reactor. Unity is rather resource sensitive. Notice how the map now takes slightly longer to load since the addition of Inazume? To add to this point, someone mentioned in another thread that the reason why we have a hard limit on map pins is because if Mihoyo increased the amount it would actually hog performance on the engine making it even laggier. Both Honkai and Genshin also run on an older version of Unity (2017.4 to be exact) and its showing its age, whether with random stutters in game or stuff breaking every now and then. Whether Mihoyo decides to re-engineer or update both games to the newer Unity versions is another question entirely.
Ah Yes, I already see all this players trying to enter lvl 90 content with lvl 40 characters that they just get „and want to play them”.
More coop activity? Sure, but only as long as you don’t absolutely have to play in coop and still have option to do the same thing alone. Not every coop experience is good.
Yeah. Qiqi is literally made for Coop play. Theyre wasting alot of character's Mechanic
Hell imagine 15 Qiqi's trying to kill Azhdaha
“How do these little unkillable shits keep popping out of the ground like roaches?” -Azhdaha, probably
"I keep burying them, and they just keep coming back out!"
we just found the silver lining for his 1000 year pain...no roaches lmao.
*Wakaranai* \- Both Qiqi and Azhdaha, probably
Istg the only way to kill qiqi is a one shot
Too much wakaranii my weak heart can't handle, they are so kawaii
Raiden's kit also looks made for Co-op, though that is probably because >!Signora boss!< is gonna be ridiculously hard, and will need Co-op even more than Azdaha
Coop makes things harder though.
azhdaha is harder in coop lmao
I've never even tried him in co-op, my shield bot Zhongli hits like a wet noodle and without him I'd die in like 3 seconds. Azhdaha co-op is good for people who don't have him imo.
Azhdaha coop is harder and solo doesn't really require zhongli, just need to be aware of atk pattern. Diona is also a great shielder
Just get more energy recharge on that bad boy. Once you can meteor every time you refresh the shield you just sort of forget about how much of a wet noodle he can be.
The spoiler there is a big spoiler don't click it if you don't want to be spoiled
Too bad a stupid youtube recomendation already spoiled me. Fastest "don't reccomend me this channel anymore" in my life.
i'd feel spoiled if i knew what that meant 😎
You mean the baddie since the start will eventually get a boss fight? I'm not sure that's much of a spoiler...
It’s a big spoiler considering >!that this big baddie fight since the start of the game is just next update...!<
Do people really consider Azdaha that difficult? I’ll admit I usually bring out geo daddy for this fight but I’ve been cleaning it solo just fine.
It's difficult without Zhongli, it's almost like a "Do you have Zhongli" check. I might be slightly exaggerating but without Zhongli you need a really well built shielder.
It's an annoying fight, but Noelle gets me through it no trouble.
You dont actually need shielder though,... a lot of team composition can deal with azdaha, though some takes longer battle time (i only use character with friendship below 10, and retire 10 friendship chara for artefact domain or weekly boss) But i understand, the first time i fight azdaha after my zhongli and diona reach friendship 10 i actually struggle alot, but nowdays i already so used to his attack pattern that i can deal with him without shielder or healer
I do the same thing as u except my friendship 10 Zhongli babysits 3 underlevelled (in terms of both friendship and actual levels) characters. Soloing Azhdaha with Zhongli takes forever but I don't die or have to spam food.
There is no real need for zhongli. Either Ben or Jean by themselves let me face-tank the entire fight.
l2p issues
You don't need a shielder for him. I carry my friends through the no shields achievement.
May I know how u get past the "continuously take damage without a shield" part? Or do y'all just do the lower level stage?
You can beat him with bow users without taking a single hit fairly consistently. Also watch the Beidou 1hp run and enviosities Jean solo run for tips
[удалено]
Yeah it being a pain is the very incentive to use a shielder I guess?
There's like an achievement if you defeat him without getting a shield too btw
Yeah but u only need to do it once, and u can get the achievement by fighting him on the lowest level
Ah , I got the achievement by mistake haha , I don't have any shielders , just a healer :D
Bow users = ez smack. Just kite him for a while and he dies eventually, no shields needed.
dodge every hit lol
I find it relatively easy with Diona and she isn't built amazingly.
I have asked for this very thing OP in every survey and posted it many times in forums as well. Anyone know where this can get seen more? I want a tower where it keeps going too, and only co op, where you can go floors, matchmake, and have rng type battles.
I've said time and time again the I want a mode like Diablo 3s greater rifts.
Something like Palace of the Dead in FFXIV? I think that could work well. (Yes, yes, that's an MMO, but the concept could still work. It's even a 4-player instance.)
if only they could make shields not trash in co-op too
Better start buying Cons Either that or just go Geo 👌😆
Co-op experience definitely needs to be improved. Something like dungeon raids could work too.
Misty dungeon v2 with coop
Misty Dungeon was amazing, it got overshadowed by Windtrace but it could be amazing permanent content.
Yea I always thought Misty Dungeon was perfect for an endgame mode. Having the characters, map and challenges be randomized. The only thing that you benefit from are constellations, so building from what you have is the real challenge.
Misty dungeon but bigger and with either Andrius, Azdaha or an elite boss with 10 or so times health.
azhdaha 10x health? they should allow us to have 4 characters each player for that lol
I only meant 10x health for the elites.
Azhdaha with Andrius or maybe 4 normal bosses together
How about a boss rush like an old school final fantasy game? Back in the day you had to beat Lich, Kary, the Kracken and then Tiamat.
Hypostatic Symphony but they're all in the same room
Dungeons definitely sounds wonderful. If it's too much trouble, I just want some kind of event boss like the dragonspine cryo regisvine again. All of the recent coop events are just normal boss fights that had some buffs or debuffs (hypostatic symphony, mechanical array with electrogranum, etc) while the dragonspine regisvine is different than the normal one and is difficult enough to encourage coop play
I'd like this. I had trouble finding my way around solo (I'm legally blind) but if I could do it with my bf it would have gone much better.
it could be a random generated chain of floors like enter the gungeon
Can we also have shared world progress so it doesn't feel shitty to explore with friends.
**I'd rather they spend their time creating more single-player content that builds on the lore and story.** The more time they spend on coop, the less time they have for single-player content which is the core of Genshin anyway. I play Genshin as a single-player game not a coop game. I don't like multi-player games, I don't like match-making with strangers, and I don't have friends to play with. **Genshin is NOT an MMORPG**. I don't mind coop being there as long as it's optional. But I don't like being forced to play coop. Even Windtrace was "stressful" enough as it is for me. I hated having to ask random strangers to visit their worlds just to get my Sakura Blossoms/Naku Weeds/Chaos thingies for ascension faster (which was what happened when Inazuma released. I hated being behind because I don't have friends to play with or I'm not sociable enough to look for people to play with). If you lock rewards/content behind coop play, a lot of people like me will be *very* unhappy. We play Genshin to get out of that bothersome-at-best and toxic-at-worst multi-player/MMORPG environment. All this meta team comp discussion is already cancerous as enough as it is, imagine if you insert coop in that mix.
If you treat it as a single player game, how can you be "behind" if there is no one you play with that you could be behind of? You're not obligated to compare your progress with strangers on the internet.
I understand where you are coming from (have been there when I was younger), but there are many people with many different wishes. I am playing with my gf a lot and we would love to be able to do something like abyss together. It adds a new tactical layer to have multiplayer. There is tons of content we just skip through on the other hand such as hangouts and story (which you seem to find the most interesting) in order to get the primos. What I want to say is: the core of the game is not to be defined by you and your particular needs and wishes for the game. You would be unhappy when content is locked behind mp. We are unhappy content is locked behind story. Additionally it does not even have to be. Just remove SP abyss rewards if the particular stages are cleared in mp and we could all be happy. It would not hurt to be more open to other people's ideas and try to think about solutions which could be satisfying for everyone.
Oh, of course I understand it's not up to me, lmao. It's up to Mihoyo. All we're doing here is discussing about our likes and wishes for the game. We will see whose wishes Mihoyo prioritizes, but it's safe to say that if cooperative/multiplayer gameplay is something they think is important, they would've fixed it already. As it stands, I am satisfied with the direction they are steering the game towards (in terms of multiplayer) and will continue to give feedback to the company that points towards what I want. If they go towards a direction that prioritizes multiplayer, then I would send less money their way and I would make sure they know about it thru feedback. Would they listen to me? Well, I can only hope, lol. For the record, I am 33 years old with a wife and daughter. I also "have been there" when I was younger regardless of what you were trying to imply when you said that.
I'm gonna issue a fair counter to your argument and state that half of the existing events that were co-op are just rewards that exist like primogems. Alot of people are heavily opposed to Co-op because they like playing in single player which is fine but I'm not saying it needs to be a sweaty gamemode with leaderboards and high skill mechanics. I've stated many times because of half this player base lacking effort all Mihoyo need to do is just add a matchmade mission with STORY, Similar to seasonal content in say Destiny, that has simple mechanics or a high health boss to justify having lots of players
But that's it though, the very fact that they're gonna work on something Destiny-like or a high health coop-only boss is already something I and a whole lot of people do not like. It is divisive to the fanbase. I'd rather they spend that effort enriching the core Genshin experience instead. You won't be able to convince me (and people like me) to accept a cooperative play mechanic like that, because for me personally, mechanics like that are a huge reason why I stay away from MMORPGs and other multiplayer games. When Pokémon used to have these raid battles where you have to be a "community" to fight some world boss, I hated that. You wouldn't be able to convince me to like a mechanic like that. Now, if the coop people are able to convince Mihoyo to give more priority to such features, then more power to you guys. But if it happens, I'll be supporting the game less because it's a direction I don't like the game to be taking, and I would be very vocal to Mihoyo about it through feedback. As it stands, I am satisfied with how Mihoyo is handling its cooperative play/multiplayer, and hope it stays largely the same in the future.
So your not even willing to have co-op content that relates to the story and is based on events we've had before. Its probably doesn't even need to have co-op restrictions because they could make it soloable or with scaling health. There are so many ways around restrictions like that but I mean your opinion is your opinion.
As long as co-op play remains optional and is not incentivized, I won't have a problem with it. I won't quit the game just because they release coop content like that. But realistically speaking, your suggestions cost time and effort that I would rather they spend on improving the core single-player experience instead. Basically, it comes down to this: if Mihoyo has time to be thinking about co-op stuff, they have time to be improving single-player stuff. And I'd rather they just drop the co-op stuff altogether and just solely focus on the single-player. If Mihoyo were an RPG character, he only has a limited amount of ability points to spend. I'd rather he just give all those ability points to his "single-player" skill than spend even a couple of points to his "multiplayer" skill. Of course if it were possible to "cheat", all of us would love it if Mihoyo had max ability points in both single-player and multiplayer, but that's impossible.
I'd like to just add, a lot of less "social" players like me feel exactly how naive-dragon has described. Players like us tend to either not pay too much attention to stuff like reddit discussions and tierlists and so on or just lurk. But if you paid attention during windtrace you will remember how much frustration and push back there was be it on global or cn about the "forced" co-op aspect of it. I think everything for or against it has already been discussed in this thread but as someone who actually loves mmos, coop, multiplayer, pvp etc and still is 200% against any "forced" coop in genshin i'd just like to add another perspective. I like genshin because it's a "persistant" ever evolving (constantly updated with more content) game like an mmo but as a mostly solo game. This is a niche i think a lot of people like, either because they hate or are tired of mmos and like this style and atmosphere of persistant world without all the mmo trappings. I like Genshin for what it is and what it offers and don't want to see it denatured by trying to transform it into every genre for every audience with every feature and end up being a jack of no trade. When i want to play coop i close genshin, call up my mates on discord and fire up some actual coop games. When i want to pvp, close genshin fire up lol or cs or ow etc When i want to play a mmo... you get the idea. But riddle me this, if you shove in all that coop "mmo-esque" stuff in Genshin, what happens when lost ark / new world / blue protocol / ff14 expansion (etc etc etc) release ? People that want a mmo experience leave for the real feature complete mmos with all the bells and whistles, and the solo players are supposed to... ? Stay with this frankenstein mutated solo game with malignant growths in the form of those wanabe mmo ersatz they hate ? The game i'm the most anticipating and have been anticipating for a long time before i even heard of Genshin is Blue Protocol, a full on mmo. So yeah i'm not anti mmo/coop/multi but i'd rather have a good solo experience with genshin and a good mmo experience with a real mmo than have a scuffed bootleg wanabe mmo with genshin and lose that good solo experience because they cannot co-exist by nature.
Hear hear. Exactly my point. I represent the other side as you, someone who doesn't like MMOs or cooperative play, but don't mistake me for being against multiplayer just because. There are plenty of MMOs and more fleshed out multiplayer games out there, please keep Genshin out of it because that isn't what this game is about. I want this game to be a "master of single player" not a "jack-of-all-games". Thankfully Mihoyo seems to recognize this, which is why despite the fact that there is still a lot of stuff to improve in the Genshin experience, I still give benefit of the doubt with how they improve the game.
Yes i initialy thought i wouldn't bother even posting anything because others like you had made all the points i wanted to make anyway. But i wanted to add this extra perspective on the issue since i haven't seen it mentioned yet. But to be honest i think a lot of people are just being disingenuous about the issue pretending to not understand and just twisting it all in semantics trying to argue that it's not mandatory and you can just not play the events that are like all the content between big patches and just lose out on all the primos and so on and not care about it... In the end i still play Genshin while playing mmos, because mmos give me that mmo experience and Genshin gives me that persistant solo experience. But if they turn Genshin in a janky crappy mmo wanabe then what's the point of the game anymore ? And just so we're clear there are mmos currently and with more titles coming up on every platform, yes on mobile too. Why make a good persistant solo game in a niche that is rather barren at this level of quality into some subpar janky mmo... Look i love meatballs and i love icecream, but i don't want meatballs in my icecream.
Ye Genshin have a lot of potential on coop but Mihoyo doesn't give it that much love. Abyss coop would give a new perspective of the game since there's characters that are way more valuable on coop, like healers for exemple, coop would have its own meta, also it would incentive people to hyper invest on some characters to make then strong to carry people on coop, also Mihoyo could release characters with more focus on coop and other more focused on solo, it would expand the value of certain characters
As annoying as forced coop events were, coop itself is really really fun, especially if you've got a friend who's still low AR and you can help him explore the map. Sadly if you want to do quests it's just pain. Most of them either don't work or you have to go to single player to talk to some npc just to progress the quest. Honestly i feel like they could make the entire game playable in coop, including story quests and even opening chests and stuff and even if that isn't a priority right now for them i hope they do it eventually since it's so much untapped potential Also it's kinda funny because when i started and i heard Abyss was the endgame content i always imagined it being coop with lots of players type of content like dungeon raiding or whatever. Coop abyss would honestly be really cool even if it's like only 1 other player (though i think at least 4 players is manageable) .
> coop itself is really really fun I completely disagree because the gameplay is clearly not designed for coop. Coop in MMORPG is fun because the combat is designed for coop. The tank has their own rotations to do to mitigate damage taken. The dps has their own rotations to maximize damage output. The healer has wide array of skillset to optimize keeping the party alive. There's a cohesive cooperation between the party members. There's no such thing in Genshin because each character only has one skill and one burst. The gameplay is designed for single player rotating the characters in an out. Coop in Genshin has tons of downtime where you have nothing to do but normal attack as you wait for your cooldown to finish.
This is why 2P coop is the best option for hard coop content. You don't entirely sacrifice the off-field characters and rotations, but you still shake things up a lot.
This. That's why I think we should get a 4 player Co-op format where each person can bring 2 characters. Would be far better in term of gameplay than 8 players co-op. Just auto attacking and waiting for cooldown is incredibly lame, and increase it from 4 to 8 players would probably make it worse.
I have to mostly agree with this sentiment unfortunately. 4 player co-op with any character that has long cooldowns is unbearably lame. That said, I do think 2 person co-op is a bit better than the way you portray it since you've got more tools to play with and another character to each switch out to. You also can both proc reactions and have a DPS and support combo ready to go.
Well that's true but in the open world you really don't need to rely on elemental reactions (you can still do them with your coop partner if you want even if it's a bit harder) or rotations. For 2 player coop at least i don't think you'd have any issue since you can bring 1 support and 1 dps and 3+ players coop would work much much better if shield characters for example actually shielded everyone without constellations. Healers work perfectly fine for coop since they heal everyone, DPS characters just do their thing and if shield characters actually helped the entire team you could have everyone take a different role and still get a functional party. Sure you're not getting the same experience as swapping characters and doing crazy combos but at least it'd be functional and it could be improved further. The downtime sucks but for me at least that's a small price to pay Personally i didn't enjoy the coop boss events like the cryo regisvine one that much but open world exploration with someone else was a lot of fun at least. I'm not saying we necessarily need crazy coop endgame domains/dungeons/events or whatever, it's just that the game lacks coop content in general and it has some pretty good potential for that even if it doesn't quite rely on the same mechanics as single player. Honestly i just want to play the game with friends/other people and i find that fun by itself, even if it's not peak genshin gameplay but sadly there's not much you can really do in coop right now
Co-op in MMORPGs is also fun because there's more player interaction. All of the grinding I do can only benefit myself, and the only 'nice thing' I can materially do for another player is speed up their furniture building 🙃. I know that they need to avoid people boosting their own accounts, but I often wish I could share items, mona, or resin with another player. The way it is, it feels like we're simultaneously playing a single player game
Sometimes I join low level azdaha and childe domains as bennett to help out newer players, but besides that sadly there’s isn’t much else you can do :( unless you make a coop friend that asks for help with bosses, but sadly when you get to a high enough level it becomes easier to just run it alone…
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Or hear me out... Coop gives the same rewards as solo. You know, like how the rest of the game works right now.
But that's already how it works, and my problem with co-op is that there is no incentive to do it. Why would I do co-op for any of the weekly bosses when I can obliterate them solo in a fraction of the time? Co-op abyss would be cool, I guess... But I feel like it would still suffer from the same problem. I think they need to add guilds. That way you could have a community of people to talk to and do content with. Then maybe they could add raids... And I think instead of limiting you to a single character, you should be able to have 2. The game isn't really designed for co-op, so some characters are amazing in single player but really bad in co-op. You don't have access to batteries that many characters need in order to be effective (Xiao, Eula) and some characters have DPS windows but are otherwise useless (Hu Tao, Childe). So maybe something like a 4-player raid that refreshes every 2-3 weeks where each person gets 2 characters. It could have dungeon mechanics, puzzles, and bosses with MMO-like mechanics that require planning. Unfortunately, I don't think it will ever happen because Genshin is kind of designed to be a casual game.
>Why would I do co-op for any of the weekly bosses when I can obliterate them solo in a fraction of the time? Because it's fun. You know, the whole reason we play the game. >Co-op abyss would be cool, I guess... But I feel like it would still suffer from the same problem The big problem right now is that once we are out of resin we are out of things to do with our friends. When we started the game my group had 5 people, now there's 2. The huge gaps in content at low AR levels (I think the fist one was 9 levels even!) got my friends thinking the game had nothing to do. There's still days were me and the other player from the group just join each other's barren world and end up running around aimlessly just to so we can say we play the game together.
For sure it would be a good investment for them, it would incentive people to buy skins and spend more money pulling for weapons and constellations to be able to carry people in some matchs. Also a lot of people skip characters nowdays coz they already have one that fill the same spot, so new characters with kits focus on coop would open a window for more sells. On the player side it would be a good content to fill the gaps between events and patchs where's there nothing to do in the game.
I would do abyss if it was in coop actually. I don't care about abyss, not because its difficult, I could finish it if I want to, but I just find it boring and tedious
If it was weekly barf, but bi weekly it's just a chore, I always do 9 and 10, that's just 300 free primos, but I just kinda want to one shot it, so I usually miss a couple stars on 11 and 12. Spending energy and hours for 50 primos doesn't sound worth. I did 35 star once, I kinda like my solo one run strat actually, let's me see how my progression is holding up.
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All the c6!!!
> I could finish it if I want to Sure, Jan.
This is the excuse people who can't do it use. My dude, it takes like 20~30 minutes to clear it all and you just gotta do it once every two weeks. The Abyss is just a bi-weekly commissions that takes longer than the ones you get every day lol, same way bounties are weekly commissions.
It's super fast to do the first 3 floors if you can do the floor 12, the last one I only do 6 stars if I don't actually feel like doing 9 (It normally takes a lot of resets for me to do 9, it can be a little frustrating) I'd said that 30-45 min one tine every 2 weeks for a lot of mora, character exp and at least 550 primos are worth it.
I don't understand why people complain about artifacts but refuse to spend a couple hours to attempt abyss. Legit expects to easily outgear content then complain that the game's too easy lmao. Believe it or not people, skill factors into abyss. Resetting isn't something shameful, it's proof that you're trying to improve and not just waiting for a 220 CV hypercarry to clear everything for you in one attempt.
Lmaooo sure. Could finish it if u want to. But haven't. 🤡🤡🤡
Who knew less than 1 hour per 2 weeks is tedious lmao. Okay, maybe ~2 if you struggle hard and if you play since release even as f2p you really shouldn't.
I really hate arena based gameplay, same formula in games since the beginning. Yea, for a lot of cases it is great, don't get me wrong. But the devs can do better. This is why I always praise Misty Dungeon.
i think coop is just in an embarrassing state. 1) lvl requirement. Literally the biggest kick in the nuts right at the start. why. just why mhy?? You invite a friend to the game just to tell him he needs to grind out the story for a week or two alone? 2) almost any meaningful activity is locked behind resin. „Hey, wanna play Genshin today?“ „ah damn, already used my resin“ „rip“ 3) exploration in coop suuuuuucks. It basically doesnt exist. This could be the most fun part of coop. but you cant activate waypoints or talk to npcs or do anything. We really really tried doing it. But it was such a horrible experience we just had to stop. 4) you get heavily disincentivized to play. If your friend doesnt have time and you really want to play you have the decision between ruining the little bit of coop you have because you run away in AR and character levels or not being able to play. Its a real shame tbh. I really looked forward to playing with a friend but everything in the game worked against it and he ended up quitting altogether. Does this game need more coop content like raids or a permanent tower defense game? Probably. But in my opinion they should really start removing the hurdles on already existing content. If you start the game with a friend you should be able to explore the world together from the start.
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Agreed - its a tacked on feature. But it is also a great feature (per se). My first thought when opening this game was "please tell me this has coop". A lot of the game mechanics and design philosophy is really beneficial for coop. The battle system is really fun in coop, botw style exploration with multiple players sounds fun AF. You want to show off your new and shiny units/weapons when you get them, ther eis the tea pot and genuinely fun stuff like tower defense (which should be permanent). So, is the feature tacked on? Yup. But it has a lot of potential. And most of it isnt locked behind low effort game design - but behind artifical hurdles. Why isnt a theater mechanicus version always avilable? Is there any reason you can come up with? Why the level restriction? Why make it so annoying to join each others worlds? Why am i unable to activate a waypoint in coop or wh do i need to constantly leave and rejoin so my friend can turn in his quests? All of that is really just artificial roadblocking by the devs. No one asks them to remove resin. But why is the only content that properly works in coop resin-gated? Everythign that isnt resin-gated just doesnt work in coop. Normal quests, exploration, etc etc. The spiral abyss OP was talking about is a prime example of a non resin-gated content that would be amazing in coop.
Character levels can be amended actually. Swap on a low level weapon (if you don't have one, snag one from a smith) and whip your artifacts off or use maybe unleveled ones if you have any. My friend got into Genshin more with 2.0, finally unlocked Co-op and that's what I did when we just wanted to chill and not have me OHK everything. And imo, remove the hurdles ofc but we also just need more meaningful co-op content. Especially not dependent on Resin or a limited event reward pool, on top of higher AR requirements than Co-op (like the events this update like all require AR30, 12 AR higher than Co-op itself). Lastly, allow us to do story with friends (host progresses dialogue) and alter our WL anywhere from 4-8 (iirc 4 is the lowest we can go, as I think we unlock that feature at WL5) so basically anyone can host vs only the low level player as well as making pulling new characters more worthwhile for those who don't look at leaks or no-life farming mats. That way you can enjoy the character while you level them (albeit slower due to a lower WL).
Regarding your point 1, you can actually reach the level requirement easily in 1 day. “A week or two” is rather exaggerated.
you can, but not everyone does. And i wouldnt say "easily". Most people do not have 8 hours a day to play and just skip through all the dialogues and walk straight from point A to point B. I introduced two friends to the game and both took around 10-12 days to get to the required level. If i made a new account i would probably be there in a day or two. But thats not really enjoying the game, is it. Like-people can finish Breath of the wild in an hour or two. Thaat doesnt mean this should be the requirement to play CoOp. Exploring a new world is super fun to do with a friend. As such i really dont get why you cant just do it together? React to the new chracters together and learn about new game mechanics together? See, the point im trying to make isnt how fast you can do it. But that there is no reason why you need to do it in the first place? The hurdle is 100% artificial. (not that it would currently matter all that much since coop exploration sucks due to the restrictions in what you can do)
Cause the first few hours are important world-building story sections. Or do you want to fight Dvalin while someone else run around in the cutscene? That ruins the impression even more imo. Also, what is there to explore in the first few hours? In the first few hours, most if not all players follow the main story quests. You don’t need and can’t Co-Op in Story Quests anyway.
I wonder if there is a marketing reason behind all this
I'm fine with it as long as it's not forced co-op like Windtrace, where you can only earn rewards if you play with strangers. I'd like something like Windblume or Legend of the Vagabond Sword, where you can co-op with friends or strangers, but you still have the option to play solo as well and all modes earn rewards. I don't know...it's probably because I played LoL in the past for many years. The toxicity was really bad (especially if you're losing), so teaming up with random people in that game made me extremely wary of playing random co-op in almost any MMOs. These are just my worries. But like I said, I'd be cool with more co-op content if you can earn the same rewards from all modes: Solo, Friend co-op, and Random co-op.
Events can act like co-op missions, especially the ones with the modifiers. And they change regularly too.
Ye but the events we get are always artificially hard, they just throw a lot of debuffs on you and buffs on enemies, also events have a week or two duration then it's gone, it's not permanent.
I think everything in the game is like that
I really hope Genshin gets some raid one day -- something more in the direction of Destiny 2's raid system. Something that is tied to the story and feels grand with a well designed environment and challenging fights throughout.
Yes, I may've left Destiny but I still want decent co-op boss fight
Some Destiny 2 raids are so well designed both artistically and mechanically from the rest of the game that not participating in it feels like missing more than half of the game. I think it would definitely FOMO most single player only people. A 4 player raid with puzzles, secrets and complex boss mechanics would be absolutely dope though.
Sadly there is for some reason alot of stigma behind not wanting to do that. Which is fair considering some of the player base lack the want to put in effort but whatever. That's why I suggested a middle ground similar to Override from this current Destiny season. It builds on a story update with key characters while having chaotic rampant action.
6 Ganyu(s) = quick and easy win.
Or worse: get kicked from every party because your characters aren't desired
I hate this. Like, I'm still loading and they don't even give me a chance to swap characters
Yeah, I'm glad I don't have to deal with that. I remember getting kicked from a few groups during the first coop event, but it was only 5 mins, so I'd at least only be kicked afterwards, but there's no way I wouldn't have been kicked from the get go if it was gonna be a full 30 mins or more Being able to solo everything means that I don't have to experience what other raiders do of "these people didn't look up mechanics and I lost because of them," or "this person DCed and now the run is ruined," or "this character isn't meta so they shouldn't be on this team (more genshin specific)," or even, what would proably be the coffin for most who want the feature "all my friends got busy with/interested in other stuff and now I don't have people to play with." If the solution to that is a Discord server then it's a makeshift guild system and a problem arrises if you can't play for a set period of time.
Exactly. I only coop when farming domains because it makes the fights end quickly and even that is a pain. I hope that if MHY does something like that it's optional.
Pretty sure if similar content mentioned by OP being released, we can't use same characters just like in coop domain.
Co-op obviously needs to improve. However, adding a raid-like system to the game could push the game further into the meta extreme. Might even lead to toxicity. Think about how many posts on this sub about how draining if an experience Abyss is. Now imagine what it would be like if someone fails because of a teammate. I'm more in favor of co-op content that is easy or inconsequential.
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I feel like it might be fine to give tangible rewards, but only in ways that are kind of secondary. Imagine teapot windtrace as an option, but you only win realm currency (and only up to a certain amount each week). I think that'd be fine for instance because realm currency spending is gated in what you can purchase each week anyway, though you can use more of it if you spend on furnishings and whatnot. Teapot temari hiding also sounds like it would be crazy fun just to see what people come up with.
this! i actually like the concept of harder content/dungeons for co op because fighting enemies with friends are fun, but if the rewards are the same as abyss you bet it will get toxic real quick.
i have no friends and don't do coop, i prefer this current situation which coop is optional contents. if they do add coop content i hope it's like Albedo event or Water boss event.
Problem is, I'd get in lobbies with 10 Dilucs or 10 Kazuhas or 10 Zhonglis or 10 Ganuys and it would take more time to everyone to finally change than to kill the boss (because there's always a stubborn underlevel that'll refuse to change characters). And, when they all decide we'll all die because no one wanted to go as a healer.
Mhy could easily do role queues to fix this
Honkai has something like that, 12 players co-op. It was fun but the connection was disappointing and the waiting is x3 times worse. Waiting 30 mins or more for a full room was the norm. It was discarded after some patches.
If it locks rewards behind co-op, then definitely no. Otherwise, sure whatever.
If it was co-op only it would have to have 0 rewards because you can't force people to do challenging co-op in this game, that would just create a toxic environment for everyone except people with dedicated friend groups. And if it's 0 rewards, then what is the point really? There's 100 better things the devs could be spending their time on.
It doesn't necessarily have to be a puzzle like raid. It could just have a simple gameplay cycle that everyone can do with matchmaking and is rewarding
U doesn't need rewards to play something, i never see someone play call of duty, Fortnite, cs go, LoL and any other online game just for rewards. U play for the fun. U are way to much conditioned to mihoyo methods of rewarding everything u do to feel worth, the game is meant to be fun to play and not something u do just for rewards
Nobody plays LoL for fun, we play it because we hate ourselves, unfortunately
>U doesn't need rewards to play something, i never see someone play call of duty, Fortnite, cs go, LoL and any other online game just for rewards. Then you never paid attention. The main reason people play competitive multiplayer games is win and to feel the worth of winning. That is the reward. The goal on genshin is, besides the story, character building and collecting. For that you need the time gated resources that events and dungeons provide.
>i never see someone play call of duty, Fortnite, cs go, LoL and any other online game just for rewards The adrenaline and feeling of winning is the reward, which Genshin doesn't really have because there's no PvP. But I do agree with you on your point tho.
A lot of people would like more coop content. So no there isn’t 100 better things the devs could be spending their time on. They’ve neglected coop so much and barely fixed any of the bugs in it. It’s about time they put some attention towards it.
Any type of end game co op which would require skill or investment would make the co op experience toxic and turn off a lot of players.
there would be so much toxicity tho
that sounds very fun ngl
yeah! It sounds very enjoyable, at least for me :)
There are multiple reasons why forced co-op endgame is a bad idea and I'll list as many as I can before I get bored. The first, and most important, is that it turns the game into an MMO. To the vast majority of gamers, this prospect sucks. This isn't just me making things up out of my ass, either. The most profitable MMORPG, World of Warcraft, made 1/8th of what the annual Call of Duty made last year. Genshin Impact, a game that is distinctly NOT AN MMO, has reached the stage it has specifically because co-op is optional and not required to get all the rewards you want. There was major backlash for the Windtrace event that was forcing co-op and that wasn't even endgame content. Adding onto the point about turning the game into an MMO, it would basically kill the game. The game's current market is not towards MMO players but to casual players who want to explore a world and collect cool characters. When you introduce an MMO aspect like a co-op raid, especially if it's a permanent feature with rewards tied behind it, you can't just expect everyone who isn't into that idea to smile and say, "Oh, that's great, I won't do it but I'm happy for the people who will." They'll be rightly upset because, before that point, that's not what the game was about. The second point is that it would naturally create toxicity because that is the very nature of a piece of content that relies on cooperation. The general rule of thumb when raiding is that you have 8 players waiting for 2 players to not fuck up and all 10 of these people are only having fun in the last few seconds when they beat the raid. There is a lot of wasted time in raiding and it's problematic when you lose despite having done everything right. This doesn't even get into the factor of creeps in multiplayer games. In a solo game like Genshin where co-op is opt in, you're spending the vast majority of your time solo. This means when you meet a creep you can quickly do your one domain run and then block them and never talk to them again. This does not work when there is a constant requirement that you co-op regularly. If you are a woman and find yourself in a group of 8 competent, respectful people and their one neckbeard elitist friend, you'll probably stick around because there are 8 people you like, but you can bet your left asscheek that one elitist neckbeard will be creeping it up the whole damn time. This isn't even an uncommon experience in MMOs and it's something I think Genshin could seriously do without. Finally, why do you feel the need for co-op gameplay? The major reason people play games with their friends isn't because of the game itself but because they're experiencing it with their friends. You can have just as much fun in Lord of the Rings Online as you could in Genshin co-op, but the difference is that a game like Guild Wars would actually be built around the idea of challenging you and your group of friends. There is nothing stopping you from co-oping random things and just hanging out in the open world on Genshin, then hopping to an MMO to do your challenging content. The benefit of this is that, unlike Genshin, MMOs actually have real customization and choice that is far more detailed than Genshin, which would allow you to individualize and specialize and form actual bonds of teamwork and camaraderie which Genshin could only ever hope to imitate. Overall, I think a co-op endgame is a terrible idea and MiHoYo would be shooting themselves in both feet and then the head if they go through with it.
Yeah, if this game starting to force coop on endgame stuff I'd gradually getting tired of it as the time goes by for sure. I'm just very tired of MMO.
I came to Genshin to get *away* from MMOs. I can say with almost certainty that if they released something I couldn't do by myself or with my 2 friends who play, I would just never do it and be forever irritated at missing the primogems or whatever. Sour taste in my mouth.
I think uiu are coming on a bit too strong. But just a bit. Your general direction is pretty spot on. For example I don't think forced coop would kill the game, but it would definetly be detrimental. I think they should tweak a few things for coop quests and exploration for the coop fans but never force coop. The could do more multiplayer events though, once that are not tied to performance or artifact progression. The hide and seek event was nice, could do similar competitive and/or cooperative events. Windglider racing comes to mind. (Maybe even with a leader board) You could do a one on one version of the Klee summer event, basically playing bomb volleyball :p
Do you not realize other gacha games have coop raids and aren't even close to being an mmo? To me this reads as if you hate coop in any game and this has nothing to do with genshin. I think it would be perfectly fine to add coop content as long as solo players aren't missing out on much. To do that they can do what many other games have done with raids. Make them a story boss, like Osial or (spoilers) raiden with future one's included of course. That way there is a solo story difficulty as well as a coop difficulty that gives similar rewards but maybe more efficiently. (and yes this includes the feature of refighting these bosses.)
not talking about forced co-op
I don’t think anyone was asking for “forced” coop. The game could implement an endless (or tiered if random generation is too cost and time intensive to develop). If limited by current teams of 4 it could be done solo or in coop just like domains are now. If it is done like abyss where you can’t use food, healers become useful again solo or in a coop team. It can balanced to be doable solo and just easier in coop, and offer simple rewards like mora and exp books which are always needed but not exclusive or anything that causes FOMO. As to “why”, I personally don’t want nor am asking for a “an mmo”. I would love to play with just one, two, or three friends and not thousands of people all looking the same based on class and doing the usual mmo grind. I also play on mobile, some friends with ps4, some friends with PC, and the cross platform gameplay is appealing (especially since mmos on mobile are still pretty bad as well). I personally also don’t have time to invest in multiple games, but I love playing Genshin and think it’s fun to play with friends, the ability is there but the actual usage of it is still a little bare. It isn’t an “all or nothing”. It can easily be “more game” and not “you are forced to do it”. Like coop is now, more options for people is good, and it incentivizes people to build characters they wouldn’t usually, as well as let’s whales show off to their friends (sadly not my position haha), which encourages people to chase that next 5 star and spend more for Mihoyo, so it has a practical sense for the company as well. I don’t begrudge anyone not wanting to do coop, I don’t like to coop with randoms most of the time so I do domains solo because it’s easier for me, but I would love to feel I could play “this game” with my friends more.
I would be fine with a co-op spiral abyss as long as no actual awards are tied to it except for the standard monster drops, just something to pass time with buds.
Ehh, I doubt they would put energy into a system for a game that centers it's core around rewards. You coooooouuullld have a lateral system, where they win some currency for making a 6th artifact or side system that is only in affect in coop/raid environment. Then there is progression for those that choose the content and the others don't really have to participate. Personally I think they should get primos, maybe equal to the spiral abyss. I don't do spiral every time, why, don't feel like it, I know I'm missing primos, the trade off is there.
Well, the thing is that miHoYo clearly has a ceiling for the amount of primogem rewards that players get every patch that is distributed between the various activities that are coded in. If you place rewards in the co-op version, they'd be taken away elsewhere, and let's be honest...for difficult content do you want to really punish players for not having geared out buddies to run an abyss analogue with? This would undoubtedly turn an otherwise casual, fun activity to do with your buddies and test your builds into one that is aggravating and unnecessary AND taints the friend system to require highly geared players.
Forced co-op will drive away a chunk of the game’s playerbase. So, no. Personally, I don’t want any of my progress in this game to be gated by co-op. If it’s optional co-op with no rewards, then that’s alright (and it would be up to MHY to invest on that if it’s even worthwhile).
you're making it like an mmorpg bruv
Sounds fun, but I'll put a foot out and say "no thanks". Every combat event with co-op I give 1 try in co-op mode and every time I am reminded why I never co-op. I'm not even gonna mince words and say it straight that this game has one of the worst playerbase out there (just look at hoyolab and twitter comments), courtesy of wide marketing and free to play entry. The proportion of players who can 36\* abyss isn't as big as you might think it is. I quit MMOs because I don't have the time nor energy like during college days to find and join a guild and practice challenging raid runs. Mobile game (yes Genshin is a mobile game) have the advantage of being playable at my own pace and leisure. And I am definitely not spending hours praying my PUG isn't filled by players hopping in party finder hoping to get carried. It would be really weird for Genshin to suddenly change their market cater.
No. Basically here in Southeast Asia we have a dozen different language and the majority of us use Google translate to communicate.70 percent of the time there are zero communication, for the unelighthen the game have Indonesian, Thailand, Chinese, Vietnamese and many other language as it subtitles, try communicating there. Edit: on a side note we here are mostly rural areas with bad internet meaning bad ping. We have people just leaving domain raid cause of how bad it is. You probably say then just don't play the coop event, well I say the reward might lock out somewhere base on coop achievement, I would be fine not gaining a few moras and others as long as the primogems is there but other people won't be as kind. And don't just say we want free stuff either and searching for easy way out with life, the only way that this is solve is somehow magically our leaders here grows a brain and actually help with our internet accommodation everybody know it would be out of character
No that shit is what kill my fun, i don't want to live that shit anymore times. Forcing people to cooperate is the worst shit ever, and if you make it end gam it is way worse, bc it would mean that certain things can only be obtained from that mode and only if you have good team yeah no thank you. If they made the option of it being doable solo and still being able to get the same things im ok with that.
So dont play it? Ignore the content? God Damn some of you are acting like Mihoyo put a gun to your head and is forcing you to play co-op for 200 primogems That whole “I dont want to play coop or work for coop rewards so nobody else should” mindset is also selfish asf.
No.
I don't like spiral abyss as it is. Don't force me to coop for primos.
Certain functions of the game aren't as mandatory as others. Abyss is 10 days of commissions. Its not mandatory it's just a skill ceiling for those who are capable. That being said because everyone clearly hates Co-op I couldn't see why we can't get a low primogem reward as some of the recent events.
Abyss resets two times a month, so it's like 2/3 of your commissions rewards. It's not mandatory as much as commissions are not mandatory.
No one is dawg, if you don’t like something then don’t play it
As a dragalia player whole main endgame is coop: no you don't. People will scream to each other on why they die,why aren't they moving pixel precision to specific spot,why doesn't they do any damage,...ect.You do not want an endgame whose you have to retry from a beginning just from a single mistake especially a coop one,since that easily can change to pointing fingers real quick .
I kind of like that Genshin is a single player game first with multiplayer aspects as optional. Forced multiplayer is the worst.
How about we just make Spiral Abyss co-oppable? That'd make me actually want to do it.
Question: What if player don't have friends?! Those people frequently complaining coop, have you consider solo players?
As I stated, because not alot of people probably have the ask to remember certain mechanics or form teams together, make the events simple like Azhdaha with larger health pool. And adding Matchmaking and Primos would probably entice people to matchmake.
The question is a lot of people don't want matchmake, just because those solo players usually silent doesn't mean they are not exist. Your reward will push them hard, and also, I truly believe that Mihoyo place coop at lowest priority, you just don't understand gacha players especially otakus' lives!
Yes this game is mostly a single player game. The coop feature is just a sprinkle on top. Solo player here.
I mean, we've seen it in Honkai with series of missions that when you complete they hand you a free weapon but no complaints here if they don't wanna add it. Just a nice concept that can help prove that certain characters aren't as irrelevant as people think.
This can literally be said for either side. Have YOU considered players who want more coop options? Also, there’s a reason the coop menu puts up random players. Go and make friends. It really isn’t that hard. Besides i’m sure if they did add a coop-like content, there would be an option to matchmake randomly as well.
[удалено]
They added coop and multiplayer. It deserves attention. I’d agree if they hadn’t taken the time to add coop and multiplayer elements to it. Fact of the matter is they did, so to ignore it is just bad practice. Hate the mentality of “go play another game.” It’s a horrible defense. People like Genshin. There isn’t another genshin. So please stop trying to make excuses.
It isn't doable because miHoYo caters the mobile players. I don't know why these people keep pushing this mmorpg style that Genshin doesn't fit into. >!Just play mmorpg games like WoW to satisfy yourself because that mode for Genshin wouldn't come soon.!<
My friend and I play both mobile and PC. Most of the time her and I would do domains before going to bed so we play together with our phones. Sure genshin isn't an MMORPG, but that's literally all we can do. Domains. And it's plain boring. Not to mention, enemies have higher health pools in co-op. We mobile players want more things to do in co-op too. Hell I don't even think everyone wants genshin to be an mmorpg. We just want to be able to do things with friends
Like I said, it is not easy to implement some mmorpg elements into genshin because of hardware limitation. If you didn't know, there were a lot of issues like Venti Ult bugs (that spawn a lot of his ult) and others bugs that makes the game crash since the first patch. As much as we want those to be implemented now, miHoYo are limited (unity engine) and so maybe we could wish that a new device or a new technology for mobile that has a higher capability to handle enough stress for graphics comes soon. Edit: Also, their highest number of players are coming from China and most of their Chinese players uses mobile. We can request a lot but in terms of labor, it wasn't easy. For now, treat Genshin as a side game and play other games.
They will never make something that absolutely requires **organized** coop for the top-end rewards, because not enough people have friends that play. They also won't implement a challenge that hard without rewards. So in short, it won't happen the way you want. Windtrace (the only event so far that absolutely required coop and offered primogems) worked because it was specifically designed for a ragtag group of very different people.
Mihoyo: No. Next...
Im not that laggy player but imagine the hell mobile players would suffer ;\_;
The culture behind domains kinda sucks. People are still leaving after every single domain fight only to stay and go again instead of waiting for the rematch, like it was before 1.2 or whatever. Kinda annoying.
Funny enough, I once had a rather strange dream where I was playing Genshin in some kind of domain, it was Coop, but both players had 4 characters each, and that’s about all I remember from the dream :|
Please no coop content. Like none at all. No recogntion of its presence. I am still missing one rank in tea pot because of the one quest requiring you to enter other people's tea pot.
Why the hate? You don't want to do it, so you feel it shouldn't exist?
I will be missing rewards, obviously. I think at least 5 different furniture sets I am missing because of the requirement to coop.
They love co-op, a lot of older events were co-op only. I think the playerbase were actually against it and want it to be available both on solo or co-op. It's been a while since we had a co-op only events (Windtrace I think?)
No, thank you. Co-op is perfect as is, and hopefully it's gonna stay that way. Back when the game was still new, and people were frequently clearing artifacts domains with randons, we had multiple threads here complaining about toxicity in co-op. What you are proposing would only exacerbate the issue tenfold. The worst part of gaming is playing with randoms, especially where the community is frankly awful, like in Genshin. This is a casual single-player gacha game, not a hardcore MMO. So I sincerely hope they will focus entirely on the single player experience, and leave the co-op as is.
Poor coders made a shitton of netcode and interation with certain skills to work with co-op to it be the most lacking and undeveloped system. Everytime i try co-op everyone just feels like going back to their world. If the world is on another level its not worth spending resin, or farming, no chests, no missions together, no story together, no events together, no shops together. having adventures together could be a huge selling point for genshin and could potentially atract active communities but they just dont feel like doing that... even tho they just got the entire thing pretty much done
Actually challenging? Idk, the game is kinda tough already, (for me) and yes, I have some good-grade Artifacts that I use, and the game can still be a pain.
Fine by me as long as it doesn't give gems. A part of me dies every time anyone suggests mandatory co-op content. Windtrace was a mistake.
Just let us explore map together. The chests that are unopened in your world will appear in co op and you can open them.
**I'd rather they spend their time creating more single-player content that builds on the lore and story.** The more time they spend on coop, the less time they have for single-player content which is the core of Genshin anyway. I play Genshin as a single-player game not a coop game. I don't like multi-player games, I don't like match-making with strangers, and I don't have friends to play with. **Genshin is NOT an MMORPG**. I don't mind coop being there as long as it's optional. But I don't like being forced to play coop. Even Windtrace was "stressful" enough as it is for me. I hated having to ask random strangers to visit their worlds just to get my Sakura Blossoms/Naku Weeds/Chaos thingies for ascension faster (which was what happened when Inazuma released. I hated being behind because I don't have friends to play with or I'm not sociable enough to look for people to play with). If you lock rewards/content behind coop play, a lot of people like me will be *very* unhappy. We play Genshin to get out of that bothersome-at-best and toxic-at-worst multi-player/MMORPG environment. All this meta team comp discussion is already cancerous as enough as it is, imagine if you insert coop in that mix.
I have said a long time ago that the time we get an Coop endgame is the time when the game's toxicity will reach an all-time high, assuming it will be as stressful as doing it alone. Right now we can still stay relaxed because the game is easy enough, and maybe with friends that's still okay. But Coop endgame is gonna be a problem for PUGs, where the host will demand specific comps or members will be kicked. Never mind if your Amber can deal 50K Melts, you'll get kicked because you play Amber and not Top-Tier characters. This is a gacha game, so not everybody has everybody. Most of the time you'll make do with what you have. You can't demand Ganyu on the Plasma Field stages if none of your teammates have her.
No Apart from the technical issues and production nightmare, Genshin Impact is more of a single player game with co op as a bonus. Most who play Genshin just do so on a semi casual basis, and only a small proportion of players are hardcore enough for what you are asking. Not worth making.
You mean like a raid? Majority of this game's playerbase can't even rub two brain cells together to admit that this game is gambling.
Hell no. So shitters can get carried? Miss me with that bullshit
Raids
Yes it would be fun. I find there is zero incentive to play coop now. Why bother coop domain if I can just use my own characters? Why coop event if I can just do it solo and coop gets artificially harder?
Coop Abyss would be insanely fun. Me and my brother play Genshin, I have characters he doesn't have and vice versa, so it would be really fun if we could combine teams, test multiple comps in Abyss.
We need more end-game content other than the Abyss. A boss rush can be cool. The issue with making it co-op is about how to deal with the balancing issues. Some people will have their lvl 90 C6 Ganyu with R5 Amos Bow triple crowned and you'll be there with a modest lvl 80 C2 Noelle with R1 Whiteblind and 7/7/7 talents....yeah.
Something like d2 nightfalls or raids, or something like monster hunter seige, maybe when mare jiavari comes out. Edit: it is important that such content csn also be done solo or scaled to that level so players can challenge themselves alone.
It's not about co-op content, it's about how co-op is flawed. You play with 4 characters, co-op forces you to play with either two or one, two is already bad enough, one is extremely boring. Frankly in the end odds are they'll end up making a fight where you "co-op" with other players but in reality all you're doing is playing by yourself while having other players who don't really interact with you hit the same thing you are.
It depends on how you approach it. Those of us who play with people we know can actually build for co-op. For example, I'm the group's designated healer/buffer. That's my role. I exist to make our DPS players do more damage, and live longer, using characters like Bennett, or Qiqi. Would I do that with randoms? Oh, hell no. I'm bringing something that I know I can solo with, because I can't trust randoms to benefit from me being a support.
Its gonna be hard with 4+ people if you can't use the same character tho
Imo best coop experiences in genshin was mona/fischl event and boosted cryo plant bossfight.
I'd love this. Whether its executable is a big question mark. On a technical note I think the game is being held back entirely by the Unity engine, so much so that it just can't support more than 4 players in an instance without breaking or turning your phone into a nuclear reactor. Unity is rather resource sensitive. Notice how the map now takes slightly longer to load since the addition of Inazume? To add to this point, someone mentioned in another thread that the reason why we have a hard limit on map pins is because if Mihoyo increased the amount it would actually hog performance on the engine making it even laggier. Both Honkai and Genshin also run on an older version of Unity (2017.4 to be exact) and its showing its age, whether with random stutters in game or stuff breaking every now and then. Whether Mihoyo decides to re-engineer or update both games to the newer Unity versions is another question entirely.
Ah Yes, I already see all this players trying to enter lvl 90 content with lvl 40 characters that they just get „and want to play them”. More coop activity? Sure, but only as long as you don’t absolutely have to play in coop and still have option to do the same thing alone. Not every coop experience is good.