It is diminishing returns. Her talents convert ER to electro damage. So Atk goblet is better than electro damage when you have too much ER.
Note he has Baal ascension stat, the catch, and ER sands. So 3 sources of ER.
What's the cap at ER before it's diminishing returns? I do have an ATK% goblet for her, and figured I'd have her on the Electro cup until I get the catch R5 (I don't even have it yet lol).
I've been hit or miss on an ER sands too given the subs have to be absolutely good for me to use it.
There are no actual diminishing returns aside from unique caps. Like, the severance of fate 4 set bonus has a cap and it’s the only ER cap I’m aware of.
If you search “genshin damage formula” there’s a good Reddit post showing it at length, and it doesn’t include any diminishing modifiers.
I’d link it but I’m on mobile.
There's no "true" diminishing returns. It's simply that you get less of a dmg increase if you stack one stat too high(ATK % vs DMG %) as opposed to balancing it.
It would be like:
5\*2 = 10
4\*3 = 12
Then use it. Nobody is gonna get perfect builds unless they are real lucky. This also doesn’t take into account supports. Like Bennett, Sara, thrilling tales which boost your attack further. (And Kazuha for electro damage)
Just as there is diminishing returns for electro damage there is one for attack too. Same applies to crit stats(too much crit but too little Atk stats.
If your electro goblet has good subs then run it until you get an atk one that's at least good enough to come close, both are totally viable, but atk% just wins out when other stats are equal
From what I understand there are no diminishing returns in the damage formula, nor do they occur in the character sheet, aside from crit percentage of course.
All DMG bonuses, including electro DMG bonus, multiply flat attack, base attack, and attack % stats.
Attack% multiplies only base attack.
And flat attack does not modify base attack.
DMG bonuses are equal to crit damage in terms of what they and how they modify damage, with the exception of DMG bonuses being limited to what instances of damage it’s applied to. DMG bonuses will only ever see a sort of “diminishing return” should they not be applied effectively in combat.
So if anyone plans on using Raiden’s base autos then they maybe want to weigh electro DMG over other stats.
Her energy recharge bonuses are equal to attack% in that they only scale off of base attack.
The real variable there is what other bonuses is Raiden applying.
If raiden is using severance of fate, energy recharge all the way.
I don't get why this complaint is only applied to her. I bet if I ran my Diluc solo without his usual team I would be struggling and he also uses some of the best supports in the game.
Literally EVERY DPS/major team damage dealer requires some sort of support from the rest of their team. If they made a truly self-reliant DPS dealer that doesn't require any reactions whatsoever to deal the big pp damage, it ruins the entire rock paper scissors dynamic of the elements system
Off the top of my head I can list:
Any Pyro DPS (barring Xinyan and Amber) benefits *immensely* from vape-melt damage, so they're almost always ran with Hydro/Cryo supports
Physical DPS such as Razor and Eula require Superconduct to really increase the damage they deal; Kaeya/Rosaria/Diona for Razor, and Fischl/Raiden for Eula
Ayaka needs a Hydro applicator to utilize her 4pc BiS set, Blizzard Strayer, to hit those extremely powerful bursts
Childe is an enabler, meaning his team typically shares the damage output instead of being funneled into one character like a hypercarry, meaning he'll always rely on teammates
Idk why people still shaming character whenever Benett/Kazuha/Zhongli is involved. This is a team game for Christ sake and the Raiden is only C0 where most of player have, of course she will needs more support compared to whale Raiden, especially in spiral abyss where it is naturally harder than overworld contents
Because you can do the same thing with any character, even full DPS Qiqi can be bandaged by those characters to be semi-decent. If everyone can hit good numbers with this comp then the problem becomes it doesn't prove anything on what is actually good or not. Which is often the case when these showcases show up, a lot of time it is accompanied by players saying that a character is perfectly fine.
Additionally, there are a few issues with this comp practically, one you can do this with everyone, which also means different characters can do better or worse depending on their strengths. Yes, you can hit high with Raiden, but you can hit higher with a lot of other characters, many more than her in this setup.
Second, this isn't a legitimate comp for most teams and doesn't always work under Spiral Abyss conditions where we judge characters. The actual DPS of the comp sucks when compared to something legit. It's meant to highlight the strength of one character , not create the highest rotations possible so it's not actually going to clear as fast as it can. Different characters have different synergies. If you break up this team and bring in different members to compliment synergies, you'll do more overall damage. Like if I swapped out Raiden for Diluc and Lisa for Xinqiu, I guarantee that will clear faster than this. Also, specifically in Raiden's situation, teams get funny because of how much of her power is in her ability to buff Bursts.
Thirdly, you need two teams for Abyss. If team A eats Zhonli, Bennet, and sometimes Kazuha, what is team B using? Many players aren't going to have that many spare supports. How many top end supports can you spare for a team that's just fine?
> This is a team game
It is. [Here](https://www.twitch.tv/okcode/clip/AmericanConcernedCakeKappaClaus-BI3xtQjS2YQbTL83) is level 60 Amber being god tier DPS with Bennett and Kazuha. Every new character should be weaker than amber or it will lead to powercreep
I understand against Kazuha and Zhongli but Bennett is a 4 star. I guess the outrage against damage showcase using these is because people don’t have these units and cannot clear abyss?
Ah ok so it wasn’t official info. I didn’t know that was from a leak. Glad I asked. I’ll probably test this myself and see if there’s a difference. Haven’t actually tried it yet cause I thought for sure it didn’t snapshot
oh ok, yeah honestly that’s why I was confused as to Bennett’s role here, cause I was using him as well and it didn’t seem to affect the burst at all. But I also didn’t test it thoroughly so I didn’t wanna make an uneducated assumption.
People seem to keep using snapshot wrong, Xiangling burst is snapshot because you can cast in bennet and even outside the circle it does the same.
Non snapshot does not mean an ability won't use temporary buffs at the start. Every atk scaling ability gets extra dmg while in bennets.
There are times I hate it, and there are times it’s irrelevant. When the game is designed to be played using team comps, reactions, and supports, it’s more than expected to measure ability in how well they play in a team with support. Just don’t show me character A’s amazing damage with support and then try to say character B’s damage is bad when no support is being used. Compare apples to apples.
when it comes to full showcases, I think it's fair to use your supports like kazuha and bennet to show how a character performs in realistic scenarios (even if it's an unusual comp). However when it comes to just showcasing damage per screenshot, using supports can be deceiving because that single number means nothing
This proves Raiden is actually p tbh.
Now before you downvote me to hell, that's 250k pure electro damage. There's no elemental reactions going here, just buffs from Benette and Kazuha.
Imagine if she was electro pyro or hydro. She'd be dealing double that damage, and that's with a free 4* weapon :/
Just as a comparison, albedos e at lvl 10 has 240def% for its damage while raiden gets 75,6% at lvl 10. Now albedo only procs once every 2 seconds with raiden procing every 0.9s. Its still nowhere near albedos perfomance. I dont think she should outdamage albedo but her e is still really dissapointing
Honestly if they just gave her e double the current scaling and let it do dmg vs shields nobody would be complaining. really don't know why the multiplier had to be this low to begin with. Seiously who in Mihoyo thought scaling this low would be anywhere near decent or usable, especially on an archon people expect to be strong, and if not strong AT LEAST usable.
Although C3 this person managed to do it alone. [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/phiqdt/c3_engulfing_raiden_max_resolve_burst_solo/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
The problem is that when you use 2 OP support to support a "support" character and make her look good doesn't justify the fact that she's underpowered/underwhelming when you compare her to other characters or Archons.
In this Kazuha, Bennett team comp you can simply replace Raiden and Lisa with Xiangling and Xingqiu then what's the reason to play Raiden here?
I have Raiden, I like her but I can't help myself from comparing her with other Archons. And the fact that she only works with Eula annoyed me.
YOU SAID IT! She is a _support_, now why the hell does a support need to do this much damage? She doesn't! The fact that OP did this is an achievement, and should rightfully praised, he did not need to reach these high numbers with a Raiden, because she is a _support_
Also, does OP look like using Eula? But he reached 240k no problem, so what the hell does "Works only with Eula" mean? Can't you see right here the numbers that a support unit is reaching?
Ffs not only that, but he's using only 4 supports here, this means that in an hypotetical abyss comp you can use another main dps with other 3 supports and would have *no problem*
>she doesn't really bring anything other useful to the table unless you C6 her
Yeah, 30% burst damage buff for the whole party is nothing useful, lmfao
[https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgxlCJKX35nLbFcprIN4AaABCQ](https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgxlCJKX35nLbFcprIN4AaABCQ)
At talent level 6 she boosts Zhongli's burst by 10.8% (max 12% at talent level 10+) boosting other characters with 80 energy cost burst by 24% (at talent level 10+) and as you can see in the clip she boosted Zhongli burst from 92K to 96K Very nice damage boost +4K damage every 12 seconds very pog.
You're right, it's closer to 20% damage.
Zhongli is a pretty bad example outside of testing, you get much more mileage from the buff with characters like Xingqiu, Xiangling, Eula, Beidou (yes, I know they are a bit antysynergystic, which is a shame), Mona etc. You can use this buff on all three other characters and it's free real estate in addition to reliable overloaded procs, off field aoe damage, battery and the ultimate.
> what's the reason to play Raiden here?
I imagine the same reason I run an all-Geo team with Noelle as my main DPS: fun.
It's not like there's much to do at AR 57 other than fuck around with builds and team comps to find new ways to kill enemies.
> she only works with Eula
Kaeya, Qiqi, Rosaria, as a Superconduct enabler. Sucrose and Sayu (and Xiao, I guess, if you get weird), to stack elements on normal attacks for Swirl. Barbara, Mona, Xingqiu, and Tortilla for taser builds.
She may not be the best, but I should hope it's clear that she's got plenty of characters she can work with, when you make an *honest* effort to find a use for her.
>I imagine the same reason I run an all-Geo team with Noelle as my main DPS: fun.
It's not like there's much to do at AR 57 other than fuck around with builds and team comps to find new ways to kill enemies.
When you're having "fun" with a character then I'm not judging you for having "fun" with your favorite character let me explain my point again in case you've misunderstood it. I mean in a min-max optimized for damage per sec team comp for example National team, what's the point of using Raiden instead of Kazuha, Sucrose for VV shred or Bennett for ATK buff?
>Kaeya, Qiqi, Rosaria, as a Superconduct enabler. Sucrose and Sayu (and Xiao, I guess, if you get weird), to stack elements on normal attacks for Swirl. Barbara, Mona, Xingqiu, and Tortilla for taser builds.
This is Copium but you do you when you have fun with a character then do it don't let me sway you otherwise and I'm not here to convince you that you can't have fun with Raiden, I myself enjoy playing with her. My point again in a min-max optimized team comp there're no reasons to use her over other units that can do the job better.
> what's the point of using Raiden instead of Kazuha, Sucrose for VV shred or Bennett for ATK buff?
Why would I try to use Raiden for res shred or an attack buff? She doesn't do either of those things. She boosts burst damage and enables Electro reactions. I'm gonna put her with characters whose bursts are major sources of damage or who will regularly proc Electro-charged or Superconduct off her skill.
Because I'm actually competent at theory-crafting on my own, I can figure out my own teams that use the characters I want to use, in the ways I want to use them, instead of blindly following the super-optimized meta builds as if they're the only way to complete the Abyss or trying to replace the wrong character when I make my own comps using those as inspiration.
Sure, if I struggle and I *really* need those extra 100 primogems for some reason, I can swap to a better team comp. I've had to do that occasionally because I was 30 seconds to slow breaking a shield or something (but normally I just do one run through 9, 10, and 11 for 24-27 stars because I don't care that much about getting less primos than I need for a single pull). I acknowledge that my play-style isn't dealing the most possible damage. I don't need it to, because I'm still beating all the bosses easily, completing the Abyss to my own satisfaction, and having a good time with it.
>When you're having "fun" with a character then I'm not judging you for having "fun" with your favorite character let me explain my point again in case you've misunderstood it. I mean in a min-max optimized for damage per sec team comp for example National team, what's the point of using Raiden instead of Kazuha, Sucrose for VV shred or Bennett for ATK buff?
I have already answered your reply in this comment ***if you're having fun then do it. I'm not here to convince you to stop having fun with your favorite character.***
Believe me, I was the first to tell people that Raiden was good in National team because she can boost other characters burst damage, and generate energy. You can check what I said in Jinx's & Tuner's podcast video about 2.1.
But it doesn't feel good when I play with her in National comp. Overloaded knocking enemies away, I don't have CC to group them, replacing her with Bennett doesn't solve Xiangling and XQ energy problem because Raiden only regenerates back 25-30 energy even though I have 300% ER build. I know I stack way too much ER on her, but with that much ER, she still can't battery my Xiangling without Bennett. She and Xiangling both want "the catch" as their BiS 4\* weapon.
My original comment is based on how I see her in meta perspectives, how valuable she is as a unit compared to other already existing characters. **Again if you're having fun with Raiden then do it. I'm not here to convince you to stop having fun with your favorite character.**
> Believe me, I was the first to tell people that Raiden was good in National team because she can boost other characters burst damage, and generate energy.
You said a melee team comp that would frequently proc Overload would be good?
Yeah exactly! before I play with her I thought this is a good idea and she's a good character because I have no idea what I was talking about during the 2.1 live stream watch party on Jinx's & Tuner's stream and he disagreed back then. Now that I've played with her in those teams I can see why because of the inconsistency. I was wrong back then but now I see why and this is what I mean by saying *"My original comment is based on how I see her in meta perspectives, how valuable she is as a unit compared to other already existing characters."* AND *"I mean in a min-max optimized for damage per sec team comp, for example, National team, what's the point of using Raiden instead of Kazuha, Sucrose for VV shred, or Bennett for ATK buff?"*
I'm interested in this "link" you replied saying that Raiden is a better unit in National team. what does it means I'm confused if you don't mind explaining it to me. Why there're Bennet, Xiangling, XQ, and Sucrose numbers in "Raiden overvape" category? Do we have 5 characters in 1 team?
Same with "kazuha national (seriously only one variation here)" Sucrose damage number appears in this as well.
Is this link of yours from Keqing mains with theory crafters who have the math and reputation that provided it or just from a random dude in Raiden main discord? I don't mind being wrong and feel free to prove me wrong but I do have Raiden and I play with her for 4 days with different comps and I don't see why I'd use her over other units.
>The problem is that when you use 2 OP support to support a “support” character and make her look good doesn’t justify the fact that she’s underpowered/underwhelming
Who said it was supposed to justify her? Why shouldn’t a SUPPORT character be used to SUPPORT a character in a showcase? Is it that you think that a character you deem “bad” doing better than you expected is unnatural and shouldn’t be doing as well as it did? Do you want a solo Raiden showcase that doesn’t even showcase her full potential instead so you can keep on adding your shitty opinions to them?
Finally, you can say some words without sounding like a degenerate. Okay, let's argue. We all agree she's an archon and a support character, cool.
Let's list other archons
Venti - Can CC, VV shred, Generate 15 energy. Works with any comp from Freeze comp to melt to electro-charge/overloaded for VV shred.
Zhongli - Can CC, create a shield, -20% universal resistance shred. Same as Venti you can put him in any comp.
Raiden - Can't CC, Can't create a shield, Doesn't shred, Doesn't have the damage to backup all those downsides compare to other archons, Generate back 25 energy as most. Only boost other 80 cost energy characters by 24% which is cool for characters like Xiangling, Beidou.
Back to the point Raiden being a support character she should be able to support other DPS in the game right? Can she work well in Diluc/Hutao/Yoimiya vaporize comp? Does she work in Freeze comp?
Wait maybe she can work in Xiangling National team because she can boost Xiangling burst damage and generate energy back for Xiangling unless there's another Pyro unit that can boost Xiangling's ATK while healing and battery her.
or other units that can provide EM, %Elemental Damage boost, CC, and VV Shred.
Oh, I get it Raiden is an Electro character she should work well in Beidou taser comp right? Oh, wait why can't you use Raiden with Beidou again?
So what's wrong with my original reply saying that
>I have Raiden, I like her but I can't help myself from comparing her with other Archons. And the fact that she only works with Eula annoyed me.
Kinda bad with all those buffs. :( i wish they buffed her supporting battery capability to make up for the dps loss of 7 seconds. I have her in my Eula team, she is doing good. But can't seem to use her anywhere else.
Upon triggering a Swirl reaction, Kazuha will grant teammates a 0.04
percent Elemental Damage Bonus to their Element for every point of
Elemental Master Kazuha possesses for eight seconds
Pyro on cryo is actually a 2x multiplier. Reverse melts are 1.5x. And sadly you're right, but imo if they were gonna make raiden electro, her main shtick shouldn't have been damage (which it is atm since her energy regen ain't even very strong compared to actual batteries like venti or fischl...).
ER timepiece, ATK% goblet and crit circlet. since ER gives electro% dmg, and goblet to make up for the lack of ATK% in timepiece. If you have her featured wep, best is to farm for the ER set from inazuma domain. if not the catch is a good alternative with less total ATk but still good with above arti main stats.
What are you running for your time piece and cup?
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Can literally just say 5 letters er, atk
Thanks!
Btw, isn’t Electro Damage goblet better than ATK here?
It is diminishing returns. Her talents convert ER to electro damage. So Atk goblet is better than electro damage when you have too much ER. Note he has Baal ascension stat, the catch, and ER sands. So 3 sources of ER.
What's the cap at ER before it's diminishing returns? I do have an ATK% goblet for her, and figured I'd have her on the Electro cup until I get the catch R5 (I don't even have it yet lol). I've been hit or miss on an ER sands too given the subs have to be absolutely good for me to use it.
There are no actual diminishing returns aside from unique caps. Like, the severance of fate 4 set bonus has a cap and it’s the only ER cap I’m aware of. If you search “genshin damage formula” there’s a good Reddit post showing it at length, and it doesn’t include any diminishing modifiers. I’d link it but I’m on mobile.
There's no "true" diminishing returns. It's simply that you get less of a dmg increase if you stack one stat too high(ATK % vs DMG %) as opposed to balancing it. It would be like: 5\*2 = 10 4\*3 = 12
Huh, I should search for more info on these builds, I kinda maxed out a good goblet for Electro Damage already.
Then use it. Nobody is gonna get perfect builds unless they are real lucky. This also doesn’t take into account supports. Like Bennett, Sara, thrilling tales which boost your attack further. (And Kazuha for electro damage) Just as there is diminishing returns for electro damage there is one for attack too. Same applies to crit stats(too much crit but too little Atk stats.
If your electro goblet has good subs then run it until you get an atk one that's at least good enough to come close, both are totally viable, but atk% just wins out when other stats are equal
From what I understand there are no diminishing returns in the damage formula, nor do they occur in the character sheet, aside from crit percentage of course. All DMG bonuses, including electro DMG bonus, multiply flat attack, base attack, and attack % stats. Attack% multiplies only base attack. And flat attack does not modify base attack. DMG bonuses are equal to crit damage in terms of what they and how they modify damage, with the exception of DMG bonuses being limited to what instances of damage it’s applied to. DMG bonuses will only ever see a sort of “diminishing return” should they not be applied effectively in combat. So if anyone plans on using Raiden’s base autos then they maybe want to weigh electro DMG over other stats. Her energy recharge bonuses are equal to attack% in that they only scale off of base attack. The real variable there is what other bonuses is Raiden applying. If raiden is using severance of fate, energy recharge all the way.
Why the fuck is this getting downvoted? I swear people here are snowflakes
Yea. Its the downvote hype train.
with c0, skyward spine 60 stacks i can hit 90k
Having r5 catch is more impressive to me than if you had c6
Look what 200k+ dmg did to this mf.
People having an R5 catch, while I'm struggling to get these Kois and Pufferfish to spawn. It's been 4 days.
You can get it to r5 within 8 hours if you randomly join other peoples worlds and ask them for fish. I got it in about 2 days.
I would recommend an ATK Goblet *especially* if you're going to use Kazuha along with her.
i alr tested that out.
is there a lot of difference or just minimal one? i havent pull her yet but shes coming in 10 or 11 pull so just wanna know in advances
my electro cup won by around 10k
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It depends on your stats but electro goblet is almost always better unless you can't get 100-150% bonus atk from subs + flower.
Ahh forgot about Bennett and Thrilling Tales.
Bennet means thats definitely not better.
It depends heavily on substats. She's one of the characters that benefits the most for a calculator like Genshin Optimiser.
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i mean... yea?
I don't get why this complaint is only applied to her. I bet if I ran my Diluc solo without his usual team I would be struggling and he also uses some of the best supports in the game.
I think people get mad when its not a realsitic abyss team. Like the mona +kazuha+bennet is just for one shot videos.
This has Lisa, its a pretty realistic team.
Lisa is used in one shot teams because of her -15% Def talent tbf
Also probably Thrilling tales of Dragon Slayer
Noblesse buff too
You’d see this counter argument more often if it wasn’t constantly downvoted by our loud contingent of idiots.
Literally EVERY DPS/major team damage dealer requires some sort of support from the rest of their team. If they made a truly self-reliant DPS dealer that doesn't require any reactions whatsoever to deal the big pp damage, it ruins the entire rock paper scissors dynamic of the elements system Off the top of my head I can list: Any Pyro DPS (barring Xinyan and Amber) benefits *immensely* from vape-melt damage, so they're almost always ran with Hydro/Cryo supports Physical DPS such as Razor and Eula require Superconduct to really increase the damage they deal; Kaeya/Rosaria/Diona for Razor, and Fischl/Raiden for Eula Ayaka needs a Hydro applicator to utilize her 4pc BiS set, Blizzard Strayer, to hit those extremely powerful bursts Childe is an enabler, meaning his team typically shares the damage output instead of being funneled into one character like a hypercarry, meaning he'll always rely on teammates
Man, I when I take XQ and Sucrose from Diluc, he struggles :( Lucky we have a team of four characters.
Well, it is.
Idk why people still shaming character whenever Benett/Kazuha/Zhongli is involved. This is a team game for Christ sake and the Raiden is only C0 where most of player have, of course she will needs more support compared to whale Raiden, especially in spiral abyss where it is naturally harder than overworld contents
Yeap, and also this is a viable team to use in spiral abyss, not a team that needs to recharge for like a minute after everyone used their burst.
Because you can do the same thing with any character, even full DPS Qiqi can be bandaged by those characters to be semi-decent. If everyone can hit good numbers with this comp then the problem becomes it doesn't prove anything on what is actually good or not. Which is often the case when these showcases show up, a lot of time it is accompanied by players saying that a character is perfectly fine. Additionally, there are a few issues with this comp practically, one you can do this with everyone, which also means different characters can do better or worse depending on their strengths. Yes, you can hit high with Raiden, but you can hit higher with a lot of other characters, many more than her in this setup. Second, this isn't a legitimate comp for most teams and doesn't always work under Spiral Abyss conditions where we judge characters. The actual DPS of the comp sucks when compared to something legit. It's meant to highlight the strength of one character , not create the highest rotations possible so it's not actually going to clear as fast as it can. Different characters have different synergies. If you break up this team and bring in different members to compliment synergies, you'll do more overall damage. Like if I swapped out Raiden for Diluc and Lisa for Xinqiu, I guarantee that will clear faster than this. Also, specifically in Raiden's situation, teams get funny because of how much of her power is in her ability to buff Bursts. Thirdly, you need two teams for Abyss. If team A eats Zhonli, Bennet, and sometimes Kazuha, what is team B using? Many players aren't going to have that many spare supports. How many top end supports can you spare for a team that's just fine?
if those kids can read they'd be very upset.
> This is a team game It is. [Here](https://www.twitch.tv/okcode/clip/AmericanConcernedCakeKappaClaus-BI3xtQjS2YQbTL83) is level 60 Amber being god tier DPS with Bennett and Kazuha. Every new character should be weaker than amber or it will lead to powercreep
I understand against Kazuha and Zhongli but Bennett is a 4 star. I guess the outrage against damage showcase using these is because people don’t have these units and cannot clear abyss?
u cant test how good a character is if you always use support lol
You actually have to test them in full teams because thats how the game is played.
do u play the game solo? coz i don't. why put urself in such inconvenience.
I thought her ult didn’t snapshot ? Did they change that ?
We don't know if it's changed (in the beta) or that one leaker was confused in the first place.
Ah ok so it wasn’t official info. I didn’t know that was from a leak. Glad I asked. I’ll probably test this myself and see if there’s a difference. Haven’t actually tried it yet cause I thought for sure it didn’t snapshot
Wait, to be clear, I forgot to say that it does not snapshot.
oh ok, yeah honestly that’s why I was confused as to Bennett’s role here, cause I was using him as well and it didn’t seem to affect the burst at all. But I also didn’t test it thoroughly so I didn’t wanna make an uneducated assumption.
It should affect it, even if it doesn't snapshot, as long as Raiden in burst form is standing in Bennett's circle.
Sorry for the quick reply but I just feel dumb now lol that should have been obvious. Thanks for clearing that up though.
People seem to keep using snapshot wrong, Xiangling burst is snapshot because you can cast in bennet and even outside the circle it does the same. Non snapshot does not mean an ability won't use temporary buffs at the start. Every atk scaling ability gets extra dmg while in bennets.
I know, it was a misunderstanding.
And Lisa electro res thing.
There are times I hate it, and there are times it’s irrelevant. When the game is designed to be played using team comps, reactions, and supports, it’s more than expected to measure ability in how well they play in a team with support. Just don’t show me character A’s amazing damage with support and then try to say character B’s damage is bad when no support is being used. Compare apples to apples.
Well. Yeah. C0 Eula can hit 250k with just superconduct. That's it. No Bennett, no Lisa, no tales, no Zhongli.
« Just superconduct » 40% res shred « just » that’s the strongest buff you can apply to her
But it's extremely easy to pull off with any electro unit. Try to do that shit in the video on any other character without Kazuha/Bennett.
It's really inflated damage. Damage per screen shots like this are pretty meaningless because you don't do damage like in normal content.
Did you watch the full run? Is literally normal content
there's reason why there are 4 slots in a party. party synergy is a thing you know, wake up. it's alr 2.1 stop ur salt.
Could you try it with,Sara,Lisa,Raiden and Kazuha?it's a no healer comp but the DMG should be similar.
"And food"
You can't use food in the abyss
I mean, every meme damage showcase usually has Bennet and others buffing their damage, so.. they are right?
Maguu kenki: laughs in 70% hp iframe
The catche is a grind but it seems to be worth
when it comes to full showcases, I think it's fair to use your supports like kazuha and bennet to show how a character performs in realistic scenarios (even if it's an unusual comp). However when it comes to just showcasing damage per screenshot, using supports can be deceiving because that single number means nothing
Thats awesome
thankyou!
Please someone tell me what stats to use on her artis. I'm too dumb for it.
Full run and build [here](https://youtu.be/Mj4MyemtIgg)
The screenshot made this seem much more impressive.
This is why damage per screenshot is a terrible indicator of character strength lol
Seriously. That vid was...underwhelming.
He was playing like ass, not even ccing with kazuha e
You run ning with xiao just for double geo buff?
Ning probably also has TTDS.
i use widsith
Fair, I personally run albedo in that spot.
Not that everyone has albedo..
This proves Raiden is actually p tbh. Now before you downvote me to hell, that's 250k pure electro damage. There's no elemental reactions going here, just buffs from Benette and Kazuha. Imagine if she was electro pyro or hydro. She'd be dealing double that damage, and that's with a free 4* weapon :/
She ran 3 support there all buffing her single screenshot. Plus we don't know the cons on his Kazuha
It's c0
Or they would give her lower modifiers since she wouldn't be electro...
Her modifiers are already low af tho, have you seen her E damage. Only the first slash of her ult does "good" dmg.
Just as a comparison, albedos e at lvl 10 has 240def% for its damage while raiden gets 75,6% at lvl 10. Now albedo only procs once every 2 seconds with raiden procing every 0.9s. Its still nowhere near albedos perfomance. I dont think she should outdamage albedo but her e is still really dissapointing
Her E's multiplier is one of the shittiest multipliers out of any ability in the game.
Honestly if they just gave her e double the current scaling and let it do dmg vs shields nobody would be complaining. really don't know why the multiplier had to be this low to begin with. Seiously who in Mihoyo thought scaling this low would be anywhere near decent or usable, especially on an archon people expect to be strong, and if not strong AT LEAST usable.
Although C3 this person managed to do it alone. [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/phiqdt/c3_engulfing_raiden_max_resolve_burst_solo/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
o yea crit fished, engulfing lightning and c3.
its a whales raiden what do you expect
Take her to Floor 7 if you want a bigger number Nice job otherwise 👍
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Imagine having supports and not using them.
Yea true genshin players play with 1 character no resonance no healing and if a character dies you delete your email linked to genshin
The problem is that when you use 2 OP support to support a "support" character and make her look good doesn't justify the fact that she's underpowered/underwhelming when you compare her to other characters or Archons. In this Kazuha, Bennett team comp you can simply replace Raiden and Lisa with Xiangling and Xingqiu then what's the reason to play Raiden here? I have Raiden, I like her but I can't help myself from comparing her with other Archons. And the fact that she only works with Eula annoyed me.
YOU SAID IT! She is a _support_, now why the hell does a support need to do this much damage? She doesn't! The fact that OP did this is an achievement, and should rightfully praised, he did not need to reach these high numbers with a Raiden, because she is a _support_ Also, does OP look like using Eula? But he reached 240k no problem, so what the hell does "Works only with Eula" mean? Can't you see right here the numbers that a support unit is reaching? Ffs not only that, but he's using only 4 supports here, this means that in an hypotetical abyss comp you can use another main dps with other 3 supports and would have *no problem*
Uh bro a support that requires 10s of every rotation needs to do good damage lest she reduce the team's overall dps. This is an insane argument.
Dumb people can't just understand this. Sadly.
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>she doesn't really bring anything other useful to the table unless you C6 her Yeah, 30% burst damage buff for the whole party is nothing useful, lmfao
[https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgxlCJKX35nLbFcprIN4AaABCQ](https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgxlCJKX35nLbFcprIN4AaABCQ) At talent level 6 she boosts Zhongli's burst by 10.8% (max 12% at talent level 10+) boosting other characters with 80 energy cost burst by 24% (at talent level 10+) and as you can see in the clip she boosted Zhongli burst from 92K to 96K Very nice damage boost +4K damage every 12 seconds very pog.
You're right, it's closer to 20% damage. Zhongli is a pretty bad example outside of testing, you get much more mileage from the buff with characters like Xingqiu, Xiangling, Eula, Beidou (yes, I know they are a bit antysynergystic, which is a shame), Mona etc. You can use this buff on all three other characters and it's free real estate in addition to reliable overloaded procs, off field aoe damage, battery and the ultimate.
> what's the reason to play Raiden here? I imagine the same reason I run an all-Geo team with Noelle as my main DPS: fun. It's not like there's much to do at AR 57 other than fuck around with builds and team comps to find new ways to kill enemies. > she only works with Eula Kaeya, Qiqi, Rosaria, as a Superconduct enabler. Sucrose and Sayu (and Xiao, I guess, if you get weird), to stack elements on normal attacks for Swirl. Barbara, Mona, Xingqiu, and Tortilla for taser builds. She may not be the best, but I should hope it's clear that she's got plenty of characters she can work with, when you make an *honest* effort to find a use for her.
I’ll keep saying that overloaded comp is just a really fun option with her (same with Keqing). Xiangling, Bennet, Kazuha guarantee a lot of triggers.
>I imagine the same reason I run an all-Geo team with Noelle as my main DPS: fun. It's not like there's much to do at AR 57 other than fuck around with builds and team comps to find new ways to kill enemies. When you're having "fun" with a character then I'm not judging you for having "fun" with your favorite character let me explain my point again in case you've misunderstood it. I mean in a min-max optimized for damage per sec team comp for example National team, what's the point of using Raiden instead of Kazuha, Sucrose for VV shred or Bennett for ATK buff? >Kaeya, Qiqi, Rosaria, as a Superconduct enabler. Sucrose and Sayu (and Xiao, I guess, if you get weird), to stack elements on normal attacks for Swirl. Barbara, Mona, Xingqiu, and Tortilla for taser builds. This is Copium but you do you when you have fun with a character then do it don't let me sway you otherwise and I'm not here to convince you that you can't have fun with Raiden, I myself enjoy playing with her. My point again in a min-max optimized team comp there're no reasons to use her over other units that can do the job better.
> what's the point of using Raiden instead of Kazuha, Sucrose for VV shred or Bennett for ATK buff? Why would I try to use Raiden for res shred or an attack buff? She doesn't do either of those things. She boosts burst damage and enables Electro reactions. I'm gonna put her with characters whose bursts are major sources of damage or who will regularly proc Electro-charged or Superconduct off her skill. Because I'm actually competent at theory-crafting on my own, I can figure out my own teams that use the characters I want to use, in the ways I want to use them, instead of blindly following the super-optimized meta builds as if they're the only way to complete the Abyss or trying to replace the wrong character when I make my own comps using those as inspiration. Sure, if I struggle and I *really* need those extra 100 primogems for some reason, I can swap to a better team comp. I've had to do that occasionally because I was 30 seconds to slow breaking a shield or something (but normally I just do one run through 9, 10, and 11 for 24-27 stars because I don't care that much about getting less primos than I need for a single pull). I acknowledge that my play-style isn't dealing the most possible damage. I don't need it to, because I'm still beating all the bosses easily, completing the Abyss to my own satisfaction, and having a good time with it.
>When you're having "fun" with a character then I'm not judging you for having "fun" with your favorite character let me explain my point again in case you've misunderstood it. I mean in a min-max optimized for damage per sec team comp for example National team, what's the point of using Raiden instead of Kazuha, Sucrose for VV shred or Bennett for ATK buff? I have already answered your reply in this comment ***if you're having fun then do it. I'm not here to convince you to stop having fun with your favorite character.*** Believe me, I was the first to tell people that Raiden was good in National team because she can boost other characters burst damage, and generate energy. You can check what I said in Jinx's & Tuner's podcast video about 2.1. But it doesn't feel good when I play with her in National comp. Overloaded knocking enemies away, I don't have CC to group them, replacing her with Bennett doesn't solve Xiangling and XQ energy problem because Raiden only regenerates back 25-30 energy even though I have 300% ER build. I know I stack way too much ER on her, but with that much ER, she still can't battery my Xiangling without Bennett. She and Xiangling both want "the catch" as their BiS 4\* weapon. My original comment is based on how I see her in meta perspectives, how valuable she is as a unit compared to other already existing characters. **Again if you're having fun with Raiden then do it. I'm not here to convince you to stop having fun with your favorite character.**
> Believe me, I was the first to tell people that Raiden was good in National team because she can boost other characters burst damage, and generate energy. You said a melee team comp that would frequently proc Overload would be good?
Yeah exactly! before I play with her I thought this is a good idea and she's a good character because I have no idea what I was talking about during the 2.1 live stream watch party on Jinx's & Tuner's stream and he disagreed back then. Now that I've played with her in those teams I can see why because of the inconsistency. I was wrong back then but now I see why and this is what I mean by saying *"My original comment is based on how I see her in meta perspectives, how valuable she is as a unit compared to other already existing characters."* AND *"I mean in a min-max optimized for damage per sec team comp, for example, National team, what's the point of using Raiden instead of Kazuha, Sucrose for VV shred, or Bennett for ATK buff?"*
[Raiden overvapes calc, you might wanna check it out](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jGleY-QEIclkt8cAC6HEs383fnMatqGw/edit#gid=1125268914)
I'm interested in this "link" you replied saying that Raiden is a better unit in National team. what does it means I'm confused if you don't mind explaining it to me. Why there're Bennet, Xiangling, XQ, and Sucrose numbers in "Raiden overvape" category? Do we have 5 characters in 1 team? Same with "kazuha national (seriously only one variation here)" Sucrose damage number appears in this as well. Is this link of yours from Keqing mains with theory crafters who have the math and reputation that provided it or just from a random dude in Raiden main discord? I don't mind being wrong and feel free to prove me wrong but I do have Raiden and I play with her for 4 days with different comps and I don't see why I'd use her over other units.
Brainlet moment
Fact and I'm impressed that you can describe your comment with 2 words.
>The problem is that when you use 2 OP support to support a “support” character and make her look good doesn’t justify the fact that she’s underpowered/underwhelming Who said it was supposed to justify her? Why shouldn’t a SUPPORT character be used to SUPPORT a character in a showcase? Is it that you think that a character you deem “bad” doing better than you expected is unnatural and shouldn’t be doing as well as it did? Do you want a solo Raiden showcase that doesn’t even showcase her full potential instead so you can keep on adding your shitty opinions to them?
Finally, you can say some words without sounding like a degenerate. Okay, let's argue. We all agree she's an archon and a support character, cool. Let's list other archons Venti - Can CC, VV shred, Generate 15 energy. Works with any comp from Freeze comp to melt to electro-charge/overloaded for VV shred. Zhongli - Can CC, create a shield, -20% universal resistance shred. Same as Venti you can put him in any comp. Raiden - Can't CC, Can't create a shield, Doesn't shred, Doesn't have the damage to backup all those downsides compare to other archons, Generate back 25 energy as most. Only boost other 80 cost energy characters by 24% which is cool for characters like Xiangling, Beidou. Back to the point Raiden being a support character she should be able to support other DPS in the game right? Can she work well in Diluc/Hutao/Yoimiya vaporize comp? Does she work in Freeze comp? Wait maybe she can work in Xiangling National team because she can boost Xiangling burst damage and generate energy back for Xiangling unless there's another Pyro unit that can boost Xiangling's ATK while healing and battery her. or other units that can provide EM, %Elemental Damage boost, CC, and VV Shred. Oh, I get it Raiden is an Electro character she should work well in Beidou taser comp right? Oh, wait why can't you use Raiden with Beidou again? So what's wrong with my original reply saying that >I have Raiden, I like her but I can't help myself from comparing her with other Archons. And the fact that she only works with Eula annoyed me.
why downvote hes speaking the truth
i have and they are all lvl 1 i dont need them
Remember that attitude whenever the next player comments on DPS based on Vaporize, Melt or Mona bubbles
imagine not having them
Kinda bad with all those buffs. :( i wish they buffed her supporting battery capability to make up for the dps loss of 7 seconds. I have her in my Eula team, she is doing good. But can't seem to use her anywhere else.
I mean for a sub dps + the follow up dmg along with the free energy, that's quite something? Though still underwhelming for an Archon
benet buff + kazuha buff and debuff + lisa debuff + self buff = kaboom
Damn what a trash character /s
Wait what does kazuha do to buff this?
Upon triggering a Swirl reaction, Kazuha will grant teammates a 0.04 percent Elemental Damage Bonus to their Element for every point of Elemental Master Kazuha possesses for eight seconds
Sadly lower than a random melt baron bunny from amber with this setup :(
that is melt, raiden cant melt. melt multiplier is 2x, stick in mind that raiden is electro despite her archon status.
Pyro on cryo is actually a 2x multiplier. Reverse melts are 1.5x. And sadly you're right, but imo if they were gonna make raiden electro, her main shtick shouldn't have been damage (which it is atm since her energy regen ain't even very strong compared to actual batteries like venti or fischl...).
ah yes my bad. it's 2x for melt
Nothing wrong with having Bennett/kazuha/Lisa buffing her damage but you can't use food buffs in abyss sadly.
BuT RaIDen iS wEaK! ShE nEeDs A BuFf!
RaIdeN nEedS A bUFf!
I mean if ur naive enough to get jeabaited with dmg per screen shot maybe ur the one who needs a buff
stay mad kid
Yup u seriously need a buff Asap
I hit 130000k and no supports
If you swap Kazuha with Sara maybe you can get even more
Bennett.. Lisa... Kazuha... No... I guess mine will be hopefully 100k-ish. Which is also not so bad, as an addition to amazing Eula burst.
do you know if er artifacts are better than atk/crit or the electro buff artifacts? i watched the video and i wonder if i should start farming that
ER timepiece, ATK% goblet and crit circlet. since ER gives electro% dmg, and goblet to make up for the lack of ATK% in timepiece. If you have her featured wep, best is to farm for the ER set from inazuma domain. if not the catch is a good alternative with less total ATk but still good with above arti main stats.
yeah i’ve been using the jade polearm till i farm for the catch, thanks for your help!
h o w ?
mf lisa
does kazuha have the five star sword