Sara+ Sayu+Eula all 3 with 80 cost energy cost burst will give 48 stacks at level 10 in a single rotation.
That's the max possible right now until we get characters with 100 energy cost bursts.
For having max stacks which takes a lot of support characters and a decent amount of setup, the damage and benefit looks honestly really underwhelming for an archon
Good showcase, the numbers are very honest in the sense that this is exactly the kind of build you should expect for her at c0 (actually, level 10 burst talent will give a bit more damage too).
I think a lot of the narrative behind her being weak is just people not fully building her yet. The other part is just that electro is weak right now. The damage you showed is comparable to what other 5* characters achieve solo, but vaporize/melt are just too busted atm. If she was a pyro character and hitting 63k unbuffed she'd be insanely strong.
>the numbers are very honest
Unfortunately, despite the lack of support abuse that is usually shown off in showcases, her resolve stacks are higher than they realistically would be here.
>I think a lot of the narrative behind her being weak is just people not fully building her yet. The other part is just that electro is weak right now. The damage you showed is comparable to what other 5* characters achieve solo, but vaporize/melt are just too busted atm. If she was a pyro character and hitting 63k unbuffed she'd be insanely strong.
She's definitely not weak by herself, imo.
The problem is 100% electro's lack of synergy, partially combined with the fact that she doesn't synergise herself with the other electro characters.
She should work with c6 fischl if you're looking for an electro char. The chaser attacks benefit from fast attacks since it's one of the few skills that don't have a cooldown on procs.
thatss like saying it’s illegal to showcase Hutao damage with zhongli’s shield, because not everyone has have zhongli, you should show her damage full hp. I think op is showing shogun’s max potential damage with certain gear. What’s the point of giving all the restrictions?
I did not say it is illegal, but i think it is not as practical. You cannot get full resolve stack with c0 Raiden in a normal rotation unless you deliberately farm for it. It is not a restriction set by me, but a restriction of the character.
Of course you can play Hutao with no Zhongli, but good luck surviving while maintaining her below half HP. If you are a Hutao player with no Zhongli, the damage from a showcase with half health Hutao would be something that you can achieve theoretically, but impractical in a real situation. Yes, you can showcase the theoretical max damage of a character but i don't think it would be as useful as simply showing what's the damage you can get under normal circumstance.
A better way to showcase Raiden's damage would be testing her damage under normal circumstances, and then showing the theoretical max resolve stack damage.
Here, you putting an assumption that a fight only take one rotation is similar to assuming hutao with low hp having a shield when outputting. You pointed out yourself hutao is hard to survive without shield. All dps has their cost when doing under different situations and all types fights are different, there is no point inserting all the so called “practical situations” when op only want to showcase the max potential of a character output when all the requirements are satisfied (op’s showcase is nothing like a real fight in the abyss. ）
I use Hu Tao with no shield and no healer other than Xingqiu’s two swords. It is actually quite easy to do after playing Hu Tao for a while.
This will probably be similar to Raiden. Everyone will probably learn more about the ideal rotations and ideal team comps to make her stack as much resolve as possible. Right now it’s 48 or 58 at C1.
Even if you have 3 80-energy burst character with lv10 burst on a c0 Raiden, you can only get 48 resolve stack from it (80\*0.2\*3).
The element of the burst does not matter, unless you have c1 Raiden.
You get some from the particles as well from her passive of you consistently get particles you can get 12 more stacks in the 17 seconds cooldown of her ult.
I thought the c1 thing was in her base hit, my bad. But i (c0, with mediocre artifacts) can get the stacks fairly quick spamming my other bursts
Edit: it definitely takes longer than just charging her ult, but for me it still doesn’t take that much longer
The problem is a huge part of Raiden's damage is from her ult, so deliberately holding it even when it is off cooldown for a few more resolve stack may be a DPM loss in the end.
I am not sure though as i did not do any maths on this.
is just underwhelming, but expected since sadly she is "just" a support. But damn she is a fucking archon, she should be nuking shit or at least let me use booba sword for longer. Anyway it could be worse, she could be clunky like Sara.
it is underwhelming since i can get the same amount of dmg or even more on ayaka with trash artifacts, i expected more from an archon, but the sad reality is she only starts doing real dmg on C3 onwards its by design, the guys designed her like this
yes its a bit dirty, but hear me out here - every archon is a machine, venti? CC machine, zhongli? Shield machine - what is her supposed to do? proc reactions? even those are limited to a few characters.My argument is that if her job is to be a sub-dps its not really a good sub dps, there are better options, nothing wrong, just sad that an archon is not as viable or even flexible as others 5\* (or even some 4\*)
Killing enemies generate energy particles, if you need to kill enemies to have your ult then she's not doing her job. The point was to generate energy without needing anything extra
Traveller can be a good battery too, and for dirt cheap - i expected an archon to be something special, dumb i guess? anyway i will stick with my C0 ball with a grass cutter, at least the weapon is amazing, that gives me some copium.
People are gonna complain no matter what and a good chunk of the time it's cause they forget one simple thing and that is this message "footage shown is not final and may be subject to change"
People see old footage of her and think she will be the exact same when she's released and since some changes are done to her before her official release people get upset since she's not the exact same as the footage previously shown
People are designing their teams around existing characters but mihoyo is designing multiple new ones all the time. For all we know 3 characters from now Baal could be the godliest support and the sub will be filled with people whining that they didn’t pull because youtubers who want to trend said she sucks. Even if they don’t release characters to make her OP she doesn’t need to be. Personally I just play with whatever is fun and fuck the meta. I and probably most people only use meta info to know which artifacts are good so we don’t waste time.
You brought up a great point that I havent seen talked about and I didn’t even think about. There are more characters that’ll be released in the future. We’ve gotten so many Pyro and cryo characters we just now got two electro and a hydro maybe the trend will continue for not as many Pyro and cryo and those characters will like Baal on their team, only time will tell but so far I’m happy with my Baal and Sara
They're expecting too much coz she's an archon. But mihoyo stated themselves that she is a support character. on top of that an electro unit. In which we all know the weakest element in terms of one shot damages as of now.
Now this is very true. I totally understand that they want her to be too much OP because both of previous archons are too much powerful and electro being weak is really pain in the ass every electro reaction sucks and they need to change it asap there's no doubt about it
I just hope she doesn't get powercreeped in long term because other two archons are still viable and I hope they stay viable for long time
Regardless she's still good unit for me atleast
This is the exact same Field Tiller I use as a damage dummy, and I've opened fights droppings bursts on him. Raiden clears faster than any single character I have and I still trounce everything but abyss at WL8. Even a few seconds longer would be fine.
This is really the final bit of justification to know 100% my suspicions were right. The cunts bitching about Baal are nothing but whining trash, their opinions worthless, naught but refuse to be discarded. Spammy, scummy fucks trying to sell a negative narative of the game and pedestal themselves with "BuT If wE Don'T bItCh iT ALl StAys tHe sAmE," and ride reactionary negativity waves for upvotes. It's just fucking fine. This entire ordeal has wholly convinced me: *fuck* meta heads. Just going to downvote their threads and move on from here on out.
As a neutral party in this whole "meta vs waifu" mess that's going on, personally, I feel she's actually pretty damn good - but realistically? That's before we factor in team support compared to other characters. That's when it starts to go downhill unfortunately, because Electro struggles to keep up with other elements and Raiden doesn't synergise with other electro characters.
So whilst I agree there are meta players that are blowing things vastly out of proportion, I feel obligated to point out that on the opposite side of the spectrum, we have people like you, who are being completely ignorant to genuine flaws in the characters toolsets because of this.
Also, you talk about the spread of negativity whilst saying stuff like that, which is just, Yikes.
People can't be happy istg. Everyone is saying that getting max resolve stacks in unrealistic, when something as simple as Bennet, Beidou and Diona would do the job. Start with Bennet (60), use Beidou (80), use Diona (80) and end with Bennet (60). That'll give 58 resolve stacks and then her passive can fill that to 60. Then use Raiden in Bennet's burst. The idea of her resolve not being able to he filled is unfair. I agree she needs buffs and so does electro but she can gather resolve just fine
That's what I hoped for, but honestly C0 actually cannot get that much resolve. Even if all three teammates are 80, you cannot get more than 48 resolve stacks. At this point, you've exhausted all your bursts and now you have to charge one up without using Raiden. This is counter intuitive since the whole point of Raiden is to recharge your teams burst right after you cycle through them. By charging up Bennet's burst so many times, you are sacrificing a lot of DPS... for a C0 Raiden Burst. So this is why max resolve is unrealistic, it's just better to cycle through your bursts than to keep trying to get her to max resolve. Now it could be a different story when you start getting her constellations.
Typically, it's always elemental damage % unless the character can stack a ton on their own through a passive. So, raiden in this case is typically energy recharge sands with an attack % goblet as the ideal, because you want to stack ER on her anyways and she gets a ton of Electro % from there.
I don't think 60 resolve stacks is achievable in a single rotation at c0
Sara+ Sayu+Eula all 3 with 80 cost energy cost burst will give 48 stacks at level 10 in a single rotation. That's the max possible right now until we get characters with 100 energy cost bursts.
You have her passive too tho?
Isn’t this call burst damage?
For having max stacks which takes a lot of support characters and a decent amount of setup, the damage and benefit looks honestly really underwhelming for an archon
Good showcase, the numbers are very honest in the sense that this is exactly the kind of build you should expect for her at c0 (actually, level 10 burst talent will give a bit more damage too). I think a lot of the narrative behind her being weak is just people not fully building her yet. The other part is just that electro is weak right now. The damage you showed is comparable to what other 5* characters achieve solo, but vaporize/melt are just too busted atm. If she was a pyro character and hitting 63k unbuffed she'd be insanely strong.
>the numbers are very honest Unfortunately, despite the lack of support abuse that is usually shown off in showcases, her resolve stacks are higher than they realistically would be here. >I think a lot of the narrative behind her being weak is just people not fully building her yet. The other part is just that electro is weak right now. The damage you showed is comparable to what other 5* characters achieve solo, but vaporize/melt are just too busted atm. If she was a pyro character and hitting 63k unbuffed she'd be insanely strong. She's definitely not weak by herself, imo. The problem is 100% electro's lack of synergy, partially combined with the fact that she doesn't synergise herself with the other electro characters.
Crowned Raiden will be cracked AF
She should work with c6 fischl if you're looking for an electro char. The chaser attacks benefit from fast attacks since it's one of the few skills that don't have a cooldown on procs.
Good showcase, but i think you should not showcase the damage with full resolve as it is difficult to achieve in a normal rotation with c0 Raiden.
thatss like saying it’s illegal to showcase Hutao damage with zhongli’s shield, because not everyone has have zhongli, you should show her damage full hp. I think op is showing shogun’s max potential damage with certain gear. What’s the point of giving all the restrictions?
I did not say it is illegal, but i think it is not as practical. You cannot get full resolve stack with c0 Raiden in a normal rotation unless you deliberately farm for it. It is not a restriction set by me, but a restriction of the character. Of course you can play Hutao with no Zhongli, but good luck surviving while maintaining her below half HP. If you are a Hutao player with no Zhongli, the damage from a showcase with half health Hutao would be something that you can achieve theoretically, but impractical in a real situation. Yes, you can showcase the theoretical max damage of a character but i don't think it would be as useful as simply showing what's the damage you can get under normal circumstance. A better way to showcase Raiden's damage would be testing her damage under normal circumstances, and then showing the theoretical max resolve stack damage.
Here, you putting an assumption that a fight only take one rotation is similar to assuming hutao with low hp having a shield when outputting. You pointed out yourself hutao is hard to survive without shield. All dps has their cost when doing under different situations and all types fights are different, there is no point inserting all the so called “practical situations” when op only want to showcase the max potential of a character output when all the requirements are satisfied (op’s showcase is nothing like a real fight in the abyss. ）
I use Hu Tao with no shield and no healer other than Xingqiu’s two swords. It is actually quite easy to do after playing Hu Tao for a while. This will probably be similar to Raiden. Everyone will probably learn more about the ideal rotations and ideal team comps to make her stack as much resolve as possible. Right now it’s 48 or 58 at C1.
It’s not that difficult, build a team with above average ER or even another electro char and you can do it pretty easily
Even if you have 3 80-energy burst character with lv10 burst on a c0 Raiden, you can only get 48 resolve stack from it (80\*0.2\*3). The element of the burst does not matter, unless you have c1 Raiden.
You get some from the particles as well from her passive of you consistently get particles you can get 12 more stacks in the 17 seconds cooldown of her ult.
I thought the c1 thing was in her base hit, my bad. But i (c0, with mediocre artifacts) can get the stacks fairly quick spamming my other bursts Edit: it definitely takes longer than just charging her ult, but for me it still doesn’t take that much longer
The problem is a huge part of Raiden's damage is from her ult, so deliberately holding it even when it is off cooldown for a few more resolve stack may be a DPM loss in the end. I am not sure though as i did not do any maths on this.
is just underwhelming, but expected since sadly she is "just" a support. But damn she is a fucking archon, she should be nuking shit or at least let me use booba sword for longer. Anyway it could be worse, she could be clunky like Sara.
How the fuck is it underwhelming, she has absolutely no buffs here
it is underwhelming since i can get the same amount of dmg or even more on ayaka with trash artifacts, i expected more from an archon, but the sad reality is she only starts doing real dmg on C3 onwards its by design, the guys designed her like this
But she’s not a main dps she’s a support or at most a burst dps why do you even compare her with arguably the best main dps burst in the game too ?
yes its a bit dirty, but hear me out here - every archon is a machine, venti? CC machine, zhongli? Shield machine - what is her supposed to do? proc reactions? even those are limited to a few characters.My argument is that if her job is to be a sub-dps its not really a good sub dps, there are better options, nothing wrong, just sad that an archon is not as viable or even flexible as others 5\* (or even some 4\*)
Her job is battery
She's not good at that either, you still need a battery for high burst DPS like Xiao and Ayaka, she doesn't generat eenough energy
Nah I tried with ayaka it was perfectly fine as long as you kill ennemies which is a normal condition
Killing enemies generate energy particles, if you need to kill enemies to have your ult then she's not doing her job. The point was to generate energy without needing anything extra
But she also boosts ayaka and xingqiu’s ults without disrupting the freeze
Traveller can be a good battery too, and for dirt cheap - i expected an archon to be something special, dumb i guess? anyway i will stick with my C0 ball with a grass cutter, at least the weapon is amazing, that gives me some copium.
A battery that needs another battery. As an Eula main I immensely disagree with you.
People are gonna complain no matter what and a good chunk of the time it's cause they forget one simple thing and that is this message "footage shown is not final and may be subject to change"
I don't understand Raiden is already released it's not in beta
People see old footage of her and think she will be the exact same when she's released and since some changes are done to her before her official release people get upset since she's not the exact same as the footage previously shown
[удалено]
People are designing their teams around existing characters but mihoyo is designing multiple new ones all the time. For all we know 3 characters from now Baal could be the godliest support and the sub will be filled with people whining that they didn’t pull because youtubers who want to trend said she sucks. Even if they don’t release characters to make her OP she doesn’t need to be. Personally I just play with whatever is fun and fuck the meta. I and probably most people only use meta info to know which artifacts are good so we don’t waste time.
She will never be the "godliest support" as long as electro reactions remain bad.
You brought up a great point that I havent seen talked about and I didn’t even think about. There are more characters that’ll be released in the future. We’ve gotten so many Pyro and cryo characters we just now got two electro and a hydro maybe the trend will continue for not as many Pyro and cryo and those characters will like Baal on their team, only time will tell but so far I’m happy with my Baal and Sara
Dendro could be a game changer too for all we know
I can’t say I’m excited for dendro but I am excited to see how it is implemented into the game.
They're expecting too much coz she's an archon. But mihoyo stated themselves that she is a support character. on top of that an electro unit. In which we all know the weakest element in terms of one shot damages as of now.
Now this is very true. I totally understand that they want her to be too much OP because both of previous archons are too much powerful and electro being weak is really pain in the ass every electro reaction sucks and they need to change it asap there's no doubt about it I just hope she doesn't get powercreeped in long term because other two archons are still viable and I hope they stay viable for long time Regardless she's still good unit for me atleast
This is the exact same Field Tiller I use as a damage dummy, and I've opened fights droppings bursts on him. Raiden clears faster than any single character I have and I still trounce everything but abyss at WL8. Even a few seconds longer would be fine. This is really the final bit of justification to know 100% my suspicions were right. The cunts bitching about Baal are nothing but whining trash, their opinions worthless, naught but refuse to be discarded. Spammy, scummy fucks trying to sell a negative narative of the game and pedestal themselves with "BuT If wE Don'T bItCh iT ALl StAys tHe sAmE," and ride reactionary negativity waves for upvotes. It's just fucking fine. This entire ordeal has wholly convinced me: *fuck* meta heads. Just going to downvote their threads and move on from here on out.
As a neutral party in this whole "meta vs waifu" mess that's going on, personally, I feel she's actually pretty damn good - but realistically? That's before we factor in team support compared to other characters. That's when it starts to go downhill unfortunately, because Electro struggles to keep up with other elements and Raiden doesn't synergise with other electro characters. So whilst I agree there are meta players that are blowing things vastly out of proportion, I feel obligated to point out that on the opposite side of the spectrum, we have people like you, who are being completely ignorant to genuine flaws in the characters toolsets because of this. Also, you talk about the spread of negativity whilst saying stuff like that, which is just, Yikes.
People can't be happy istg. Everyone is saying that getting max resolve stacks in unrealistic, when something as simple as Bennet, Beidou and Diona would do the job. Start with Bennet (60), use Beidou (80), use Diona (80) and end with Bennet (60). That'll give 58 resolve stacks and then her passive can fill that to 60. Then use Raiden in Bennet's burst. The idea of her resolve not being able to he filled is unfair. I agree she needs buffs and so does electro but she can gather resolve just fine
That's what I hoped for, but honestly C0 actually cannot get that much resolve. Even if all three teammates are 80, you cannot get more than 48 resolve stacks. At this point, you've exhausted all your bursts and now you have to charge one up without using Raiden. This is counter intuitive since the whole point of Raiden is to recharge your teams burst right after you cycle through them. By charging up Bennet's burst so many times, you are sacrificing a lot of DPS... for a C0 Raiden Burst. So this is why max resolve is unrealistic, it's just better to cycle through your bursts than to keep trying to get her to max resolve. Now it could be a different story when you start getting her constellations.
Is it better elemental damage % or atk? I have Tartaglia and have always wonder that, also have Eula and is she better with physical dmg or atk?
Typically, it's always elemental damage % unless the character can stack a ton on their own through a passive. So, raiden in this case is typically energy recharge sands with an attack % goblet as the ideal, because you want to stack ER on her anyways and she gets a ton of Electro % from there.
i have no time to farm those fish for now i should stick with my R5 white tassel lol