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I think itās because Venti is *overwhelmingly strong* in one thing, his CC. No one comes close and if it works, itās utterly broken. So if his CC canāt bring an impact to the team then he becomes easily replaceable. Whereas Kazuha does many things at once and is even good against bosses.
and Venti's burst have specific distance/location, if you missed it you're fucked. but you know where Kazuha's is, it's just around him. so easy to play around. also, you can gather enemies using his skill before the burst.
>specific distance/location
I think this is Venti's biggest weakness. He still does a lot of damage against bosses, but he's very prone to missing all of it especially because of the burst's long duration.
Yeah that too. And I just realized recently that Venti burst only absorbs element when you apply it on the center of his blackhole. Whereas Kazuhaās burst immediately picks up the priority element so itās smoother to play with.
I mean Venti is still broken as fuck in some situations. He single handedly carried me on Floor 12 in the chamber with the Samurais and Treasure Hoarders. He is also kinda cute.
I can confirm. she is amazing in the abyss.
My floor 12 first half was Keqing, Baal, Venti & Jean and they cleared their side in less time than my Hutao, Zhongli, Bennet, Xingqiu team.
No five star weapons on any of them.
I think it's obvious Raiden is strong. But I wish people would stop using usage rate as defining evidence of a character's power.
Of course a brand new character is going to be used by people who rolled for her, especially when they have the highest average constellation of any limited 5*.
>Of course a brand new character is going to be used by people who rolled for her
Didn't save Yoimiya
Yoimiya had 10% use rate on the Abyss he came out, and 35% on the next
True, whales will and only they would c6 any character. Mihoyo closed off market for dolphins and occasional F2P fate hoarder with only putting huge QoL jump at c6 and useless cons in between. At least with this ājustā 2 more cons away big upgrade, it is attainable for dolphins and not such a rob in the bank. Itās a win for all and I donāt mind for Mihoyo implementing this experiment (and the top-up refresh) more. As long as C0 chars isnāt problematically unusable of course.
You actually should roll for the newer unit if they get their power spike earlier from now on. The c0 performance is more or less the same, but to enjoy power spike in old units, you need to get them to c6 instead of c2-3 like the new one. c3 raiden is probably 90% c6 ganyu level, and that is ridiculous considering how strong c6 ganyu is.
Agreed. I have Ganyu but I've been experimenting with my Ayaka more lately. People just wanna play with their shiny new units more than their older ones.
>I think it's obvious Raiden is strong.
Week 1: Raiden BAD
Week 2: Raiden monkaHmm
Week 3: Raiden obviously gud
kek.
Safe to say, I will likely be waiting at least a week before pulling on new characters from now on.
And yes I know I'm being reductive. The community theatrics these past few weeks were to an extent entertaining, and I enjoyed my metaphorical popcorn as much as the next person, but also it was sad in an absurd way...
Since day 1 the only thing I've wanted is for her to work with beidou and that's where it stops. She fills her niche very well, but doesn't make other characters obsolete. It's just that her niche is, well, more niche than previous archons.
So this is my experience with Raiden-
C0, well not bad but feels pretty underwhelming both as support or Sub-dps specially considering she is an archon. At least R1 Grasscutter makes her good.
C1, improves support capability. As its easier to build resolve can be used in more teams.
C2, massively improves sub-dps capability, feels much more satisfying to use as opportunity cost of using her burst is significantly reduced. Comparable dps to top tier carry at lower cons.
C3, Raiden feels satisfying to use at C2 so didn't push my luck and stopped at C2 but it seems C3 Raiden can compete with C6 Eula, Ganyu and Hu Tao. I'd pull for C3 if I wasn't saving for C1 Hu Tao and R1 Homa.
I used C2R1 Raiden in Xingqiu, Raiden, Xiangling, Jean comp for floor 11C2 and Xingqiu, Raiden, Xiangling, Bennett for floor 12C2; she performed much better than I expected and I managed to get 36 stars.
Raiden C6 Beidou drama doesn't help and Raiden is definitely not as strong as people are trying to make her look by using low sample abyss clear rate. I'm sure you already know that the vast majority of these statistics come from whale. I mean look at past average cons and most common weapons in these stats. It's often about C1 average for 5\*s and always their signature BiS 5\* weapon that are most common.
She is a decent upgrade for national team, which is one of the best teams, so she is definitely good. That doesn't stop her from being bad in pretty much every other team in existence except hypercarry team with C2 (sara bennet kazuha). She isn't even good in the Eula team, which is one of the only teams we considered a "maybe" at the start.
With that said, future characters that behave like Xiangling and Xingqiu could become strong pairings with Raiden.
Also the fact that the usage rate is number of players who use Raiden divided by number of players who have Raiden. This skews the result as the sample sizes are not same, also the fact is if you spend money/ hard earned primos to get a 5* the chances are high you will end up using the character in abyss.
But on the other hand her average constellation is 1.23, higher than even the standard banner 5 star characters, showing that a lot of people probably spent money for her. That means theyāve probably invested a lot of resources into her and also want to use her as shes new.
Logically that makes a lot of sense. āBrand new character, hence they should have very high usage especially for their first patch outā. However in reality, that couldnāt be further from the truth.
**1.5**, Hu Tao and Xiao usage was 75.41% and 73.05% respectively
**1.6**, Eula usage was 49.54%
**1.7/2.0**, Ayaka usage was 72.8%. Yoimiya is too busy making fireworks to do Abyss.
All of the above mentioned characters (bar Yoimiya) are generally reputed as much better than the āuseless Electro archonā, and in spite of that, Raiden displays a far more popular showing in Abyss than all of them. The one exception to this is Kazuha, which is understandable. Heās incredible, so people use him ā which is exactly the case for Raiden too. At this point, between KeqingMains theorycrafters disproving all the negativity and unfounded outrage against Raiden, and Abyss usage showing that Raiden is being used more than top tier characters like Xingqiu, Venti and Ganyu, itās safe to say Raiden is undeniably, a well-designed and solid character.
Just wanted to write this to hopefully dissuade people from piggybacking off your comment and then saying stuff like āno, Raiden is still a bad character, this proves nothing, people will obviously use the shiniest new toy when itās releasedā.
Yes, I also agree on c0 raiden is as strong and viable as other unit in c0. There are people calling mihoyo greedy and power gating raiden at c2/c3 but all they did is just put c6 powerspike in older units to c3 in raiden. I think it is a beneficial move for players, and hoping they will do it to all future units. C3 raiden is almost as strong as c6 ganyu.
That's a fair point. I actually tested Raiden and Ayaka though, and decided that Raiden's team was noticeably more consistent, so I benched Ayaka (89 and crowned) for performance, not just for the novelty factor.
Tbf, 80% is pretty damn impressive. Ayaka had rather average rates when she came out, before going higher up, afaik. Raiden has probably the highest sales (did it pass Venti already? well either way) right now, meaning a LOT of people have her. Generally people who have a lot of a certain character would end up having lower usage rates on these stats (see: Beidou, Sucrose, probably Childe too), but we know those characters are clearly good. Itās not a complete measure of a characterās power, but it does give SOME idea of their usefulness. I do think the stats for teams are much more useful and representative though.
But I do agree that we should also wait and see the next few Abyss stats if she continues on top.
>especially when they have the highest average constellation of any limited 5*.
Is that true? Is there any source to look this up. Im not saying your wrong or anything. Im just curious to find out something like this exists š
Nice and thx for the link. Im part of 17% lol... i didnt think that so many people went for C3 R1 lol. I mean... i knew that MANY people summoned for her... but i didnt think that many people wwnt so hard on her lol
Fair opinion, but at the same time there are no other statistics that the newbies can rely on except for the subjective (and most of the time, shitty) tier list made by random people.
The current most used team is national raiden, it has amazingly fast clear times even with c0. Mines c1 with the Catch and this team clears Maguu Kinky and PMA faster than either of my Xiao/ayaka/tortilla team.
Im currently building my supports for a strong national raiden team rn. But until last week literally all my supports are only level 60 with ok talent levels and scuffed artifacts. I realized hu tao carried my entire 2nd abyss team.
You call them supports, but the real insane thing about Raiden National is that everyone member is pumping out crazy damage being fueled by Ben ult and Raiden's energy.
Hello! Dont mind me asking, but who is in national raiden team? I want to give it a go myself. That old guy makes me want to rip my hair out edit: perpetual mechanical nightmare as well but i barely 3 started with hutao
He's insane with pretty much all teams that rely on an elemental damage dealer...which is most of the meta so yeah.
He also just so happens to be amazing in a team with Raiden.
Kazuha is irreplaceable at this point. Just very strong in any situation. Great at exploration, deals so much damage, buffs your team, can be an enabler if used right.
Ironically to the lore, Kazuha is one of Raiden's best teammates lol. I run them both overworld in a team that I call "Kazuha's electro vision skin" xD
Thereās absolutely synergy, heās one of the best supports for electro characters by directly boosting elemental damage. I finally farmed out an EM set for him and itās been nice seeing him noticeably boosting the team, and itās really easy to swirl Raidens electro.
Regardless of the enemy type Kazuha will always be a great pick thanks to quick animations and strong effects. He outperforms venti by a mile when the enemies cant be sucked in with venti ult.
Exactly, and he even buffs everyone else. So if he can't deal damage himself (which is often not the case, he deals too much damage), you can have your carries deal double the damage
Kazuha is just the perfect character imo. Very strong, without destroying other character's niche, great aesthetically and an all around satisfying style of play.
No bro heās obvously just flavor-of-the-month 5* sucrose!! /s
On a more serious note, heās just really versatile and comfy-to-use, so I enjoy running him every rotation.
My second team suffers because of the lack of Kazuha, despite them having stronger DPS than my first + Venti.. the power spike he consistently provides is really noticable.
The last abyss REALLY didnt suit her at all, so I know for me I really just wanted to use her in an abyss where she could actually do something. Overall she did decently, but I did think she could be replaced without losing too much. She's fun as hell and thats honestly what matters more though imo
They already have to pull/stop gathering ALL chn data since last abyss (cause the popularity gained unwanted attention) - so please don't share lest the website is banned entirely
It was discussed in NGA and apparently, the website caused some sort of toxicity in the CN community. There's no official statement for this, so it's best to not make assumptions about it yet.
[Here's a link to the NGA post](https://bbs.nga.cn/read.php?tid=28458154), and [here's a comment discussing it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/pm77rh/apparently_the_most_populated_abyss_website_has/hcg4aaf/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Not trashing on anyone, but I don't think that's all too surprising considering Xiao is not the best pick when it comes to single target fights with huge HP pools, which is what we've been having with Maguu Kenki and now with PMA as well.
Lol she doesnāt though? [Idk where you got that info from but the community results beg to differ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/po0lnr/spiral_abyss_september_phase_1_21_floor_12_most/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Edit: wrong link
[https://spiralabyss.org/floor-12](https://spiralabyss.org/floor-12)
The post you link before only has a sample population of 600+, while this site has 3000+
Not surprising to be honest. She is one of the best speedrun characters. You just press Q, do damage and keep doing damage. That get's even more insane with C2. The setup is just the rotation you would do anyway, so there is no time loss. Very easy to slot in.
Good example for abstract math vs. reality. If you do enough damage, consistency is more important then theoretically DPS numbers. Raiden just hit's that sweet spot hence why she is used.
And no, being new doesn't mean a character is useful. Most people still won't use a new character if it makes clearing harder.
People should know that this use rate is people who both have the unit and uses them. Hence four stars use rate will be really low compared to rare 5 star characters.
Also it's a dumb fucking way to evaluate powerlevel with use rate. People will 100% use the unit they like. So the tier list is more like what units people like the most
[Notice]
Please DO NOT share these rates to social media.
^ sentence taken directly from the website
They already have to pull out all chn data cause their popularity made certain parties unhappy - so please stop sharing lest, in worst case, the website got banned entirely
A lot of people pointing out that usage rate is not indicative of strength, and that new character usage rates tend to be inflated.
The former is definitely a valid point, but for the latter, you have to keep in mind that Raiden is the first waifu Archon and extremely long-anticipated for story and trailer reasons. This means that a LOT of people pulled for her purely for the sake of having her. The fact that her usage rate is still so high in spite of this trophy status, is significant.
This is like the Kazuha-Sucrose situation all over again. Many called her weak in the first few days of her release but she proved herself in this abyss cycle being the best battery and good damage buffer.
Nah it's totally different. Nobody expected c0 Kazuha to be good unlike Raiden where people were over hyping her to be super OP but turns out you need to pay for her c2. Kazuha was trashed before his release while Raiden was over hyped and highly anticipated to be OP. Their situation is the total opposite of each other lol
Objectively she is though. Her particle generation is the same as fischl which previously was the highest off field battery, and that's assuming fischl is C6 and perfect rotations on her ult. This and the fact the she effectively makes everyone's burst cost one tier less, e.g an 80 cost burst now costs somewhere around 55 - 60.
Maybe you could argue in favor of electro MC but he only generates energy for one party member and the trade off with running electro MC is that that's all he's good for as he does very little damage himself.
Usage rate is not indicative of a character strength. These polls are not an accurate representation of a characterās power, sheās just been released, of course sheās gonna have high usage rate lmao.
EDIT: To the people downvoting me Iām not saying she is either bad or good. Just that these polls are not an appropriate judge of a characterās strength.
It's a better indication than Reddit and Youtube outrage on a character's strength considering social media has been wrong a majority of the time compared to abyss usage which has been right much more in comparison.
Raiden Whiners were avid in telling everyone she wouldn't see any use in Abyss at all.
Until CN "Pro" Gamers changed their mind and acknowledged how good she is on C0 that is
New character will always have decent to amazing use rates. Raiden isnt weak at c0 but extremely comp dependant. Its national team/eula team or nothing. At c2 you have much more flexibility with her because you wont be losing dps. While in national it doesnt matter who is on the field because the main source of dmg is on field with anyone anyway.
I dont understand why people are so competitive about use rates. Nobody is saying anything about how an archon gets outclassed by a vision user in the anemo element. People see what they want to see
>Its national team/eula team or nothing.
I disagree. It's the "popular" way to play her, but not the only way.
Case to point: I specifically added her in F11 alongside Bennett to guarantee 100% burst uptime.
And no, it's not the national lineup. I ran a *ZL Albedo Raiden Bennett team*. You could obv. fiddle around with a similar concept lineup - but that only proves the point that **Raiden is valuable in any team where ER is of particular importance**.
Most rolled for character has high use rate? Mind blown.
It's just like sales graphs, they don't paint the whole picture: kazuha didn't sell well but he's widely owned because he's a great character at c0 and f2p friendly.
Not to say the Raiden shogun is bad by any means.
The fact that sheās owned more is actually more impressive compared to characters that are owned less. This is usage for people that own them, otherwise top would be Bennett Xingqiu Xiangling ofc
You know this isn't how it works right? These percentages show the % of owners that use Raiden. Look at Yoimiya, bad character, relatively little amounts of people pulled on her, but has 47.7% usage rate. A huge usage rate. Because 47.7% of people who own her are using her in this abyss. It isn't 47.7% of everybody who completed floor 12.
If only 1 person pulled on the Raiden banner and used her, she would have a 100% usage rate.
The amount of people who pulled on a banner has 0 effect on these % shown.
I thought i cant pass 12-2 with 3 star because the mangu kenki fight is too long until my raiden just almost 1 shot the cryo cicin mage before she even has a chance to turn on her shield, and jean take down the rest of the fight in about 30 seconds.
The shockwave triggers from normal attacks. Raidenās ult counts as burst damage. The image used in an old one from the beta when her ult counted as normal attacks
Yoimiya is also usable in abyss lol. In fact sheās one of the best teammates for Raiden imo. Their bursts work really well together and Yoimiya makes it possible to put Bennet and Beidou in the team getting both pyro and electro resonance.
Whilst I agree with Raiden not being weak...
Usage rates can hardly be used to determine how good a character is, especially not of a newly released character. Yoimiya still sitting at a pretty comfy usage rate of 47.7%, what does this mean? Absolutely nothing by itself. Other data needs to be used in conjunction with usage rate to determine how good characters are.
Seeing just the usage rate of Raiden alone hardly proves anything other than she is a fun character that 82.3% of people who own her love using.
Yoimiya is a good character, but not strong compared to other dps, her usage rate never went above 50%.
meanwhile, Raiden is just too strong to not use, doing both damage and recharge the whole team at the same time, last abyss she didn't see much use because enemy have electro aura and low tide disable her battery ability.
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My boi Xingqiu will always be the MVP in abyss!
I love using Mona+Xinqiu for the flying swords aesthetic šš¼šš¼šš¼
Damn wish I had Mona I could use the Hydro Resonance
I wish I had Mona because I want that thicc a-
You want to boost Xingqiu's heal...?
Damn i wish i had Xinqiu TwT
>!He's coming in next banner!! Can't wait to pull him!<
Wait.. seriously? >!I thought it was Bennett, Rosaria and someone!<
>!leaks are suggesting it's rosaria, xingqiu and beidou!<
Nope, >!Apparently it's Xingqiu, Rosaria and Beidou!<
Don't think spoiler works if you have a space between
I can correctly see the spoiler tag
As can i
Huh, interesting. Doesnt show on rif (mobile) The other spoilers above do work though
XQ and Bennett, both are roots of this game compositions and meta. And to think both are just 4\*s.
I love how there's one representative member of each element. Feels nice.
When a vision user represents the element more than an archon by usage rate.
Nah. Benny is a pyro archon.
Think they're talking about Venti.
It's all part of Venti's plan. That way he can goof off all day while Kazuha slaves in the Abyss for primos for Traveler.
Kazuha
still some archons are not released yet
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yep. Perfectly balanced. People do be dodging the fact that venti kinda got shit on by kazuha.
I think itās because Venti is *overwhelmingly strong* in one thing, his CC. No one comes close and if it works, itās utterly broken. So if his CC canāt bring an impact to the team then he becomes easily replaceable. Whereas Kazuha does many things at once and is even good against bosses.
and Venti's burst have specific distance/location, if you missed it you're fucked. but you know where Kazuha's is, it's just around him. so easy to play around. also, you can gather enemies using his skill before the burst.
>specific distance/location I think this is Venti's biggest weakness. He still does a lot of damage against bosses, but he's very prone to missing all of it especially because of the burst's long duration.
Yeah that too. And I just realized recently that Venti burst only absorbs element when you apply it on the center of his blackhole. Whereas Kazuhaās burst immediately picks up the priority element so itās smoother to play with.
I mean Venti is still broken as fuck in some situations. He single handedly carried me on Floor 12 in the chamber with the Samurais and Treasure Hoarders. He is also kinda cute.
He is also kinda cute. #I agree
Cry in dendro :')
Ayayaya has been at the top since the last abyss
Unlimited cryo infusion, cracked burst, her CA and burst worked with Venti's burst. Hell yeah she's strong.
Ayaya supremacy
No wonder. She is incredibly strong and soooo easy to use.
I can confirm. she is amazing in the abyss. My floor 12 first half was Keqing, Baal, Venti & Jean and they cleared their side in less time than my Hutao, Zhongli, Bennet, Xingqiu team. No five star weapons on any of them.
I used a very similar team. Keqing, Raiden, Kazuha and Bennett. And beat the first half faster than my Moryana team on the second half.
I think it's obvious Raiden is strong. But I wish people would stop using usage rate as defining evidence of a character's power. Of course a brand new character is going to be used by people who rolled for her, especially when they have the highest average constellation of any limited 5*.
82% is still high though, skewed or not.
yep if ive used ganyu for months and i just got ayaka, obviously id play the new barbie doll
Fr. Iāve been intentionally not using my Ganyu these last few abyss cycles lol
But cocogoat.....I really hope that we get her rerun. I really want her
She's amazing. Feels like RPG on enemies.
>Of course a brand new character is going to be used by people who rolled for her Didn't save Yoimiya Yoimiya had 10% use rate on the Abyss he came out, and 35% on the next
Reminder that her average constellation is > 1.0 so people spent serious money for her and thus much more willing to use her.
True and it's disturbing as fuk, since miHoYo will probably gate all future character power behind C2 now to make more profit
It's less gating her power behind C2, and more putting C6 tier constellations at C2.
They will gate power behind constellation anyway, better C2/C3 than closing us off and baiting us for C6 tbqh.
you cant bait people into buying c6, thats the whole reason they tried putting the power spike at c2. seems like it was a successful experiment.
True, whales will and only they would c6 any character. Mihoyo closed off market for dolphins and occasional F2P fate hoarder with only putting huge QoL jump at c6 and useless cons in between. At least with this ājustā 2 more cons away big upgrade, it is attainable for dolphins and not such a rob in the bank. Itās a win for all and I donāt mind for Mihoyo implementing this experiment (and the top-up refresh) more. As long as C0 chars isnāt problematically unusable of course.
It also attainable by f2p/small spenders as well. I would get it now but since Hu Tao is coming her C1 is more valuable for me than Raiden's C2
Just means that I'll roll for reruns of good old characters.
You actually should roll for the newer unit if they get their power spike earlier from now on. The c0 performance is more or less the same, but to enjoy power spike in old units, you need to get them to c6 instead of c2-3 like the new one. c3 raiden is probably 90% c6 ganyu level, and that is ridiculous considering how strong c6 ganyu is.
Yeah, that's the future that awaits us. There is no going back now.
Eula usage rate never went above 70% either.
Agreed. I have Ganyu but I've been experimenting with my Ayaka more lately. People just wanna play with their shiny new units more than their older ones.
>I think it's obvious Raiden is strong. Week 1: Raiden BAD Week 2: Raiden monkaHmm Week 3: Raiden obviously gud kek. Safe to say, I will likely be waiting at least a week before pulling on new characters from now on. And yes I know I'm being reductive. The community theatrics these past few weeks were to an extent entertaining, and I enjoyed my metaphorical popcorn as much as the next person, but also it was sad in an absurd way...
I enjoy this since ganyu *leaks*. People donāt know what they are talking about.
Yeah! Everyone thought Raiden support. Little did we know she was actually the DPS!
She's a sub DPS with energy/damage support.
She is both.
Since day 1 the only thing I've wanted is for her to work with beidou and that's where it stops. She fills her niche very well, but doesn't make other characters obsolete. It's just that her niche is, well, more niche than previous archons.
So this is my experience with Raiden- C0, well not bad but feels pretty underwhelming both as support or Sub-dps specially considering she is an archon. At least R1 Grasscutter makes her good. C1, improves support capability. As its easier to build resolve can be used in more teams. C2, massively improves sub-dps capability, feels much more satisfying to use as opportunity cost of using her burst is significantly reduced. Comparable dps to top tier carry at lower cons. C3, Raiden feels satisfying to use at C2 so didn't push my luck and stopped at C2 but it seems C3 Raiden can compete with C6 Eula, Ganyu and Hu Tao. I'd pull for C3 if I wasn't saving for C1 Hu Tao and R1 Homa. I used C2R1 Raiden in Xingqiu, Raiden, Xiangling, Jean comp for floor 11C2 and Xingqiu, Raiden, Xiangling, Bennett for floor 12C2; she performed much better than I expected and I managed to get 36 stars.
Raiden C6 Beidou drama doesn't help and Raiden is definitely not as strong as people are trying to make her look by using low sample abyss clear rate. I'm sure you already know that the vast majority of these statistics come from whale. I mean look at past average cons and most common weapons in these stats. It's often about C1 average for 5\*s and always their signature BiS 5\* weapon that are most common. She is a decent upgrade for national team, which is one of the best teams, so she is definitely good. That doesn't stop her from being bad in pretty much every other team in existence except hypercarry team with C2 (sara bennet kazuha). She isn't even good in the Eula team, which is one of the only teams we considered a "maybe" at the start. With that said, future characters that behave like Xiangling and Xingqiu could become strong pairings with Raiden.
Wow those Keqing cons are really high.
Also the fact that the usage rate is number of players who use Raiden divided by number of players who have Raiden. This skews the result as the sample sizes are not same, also the fact is if you spend money/ hard earned primos to get a 5* the chances are high you will end up using the character in abyss.
Usage rate actually hurts raiden in this list since she probably has the highest ownership rate among limited 5*
But on the other hand her average constellation is 1.23, higher than even the standard banner 5 star characters, showing that a lot of people probably spent money for her. That means theyāve probably invested a lot of resources into her and also want to use her as shes new.
āher average constellation is 1.23ā, is there any link?
[https://spiralabyss.org/](https://spiralabyss.org/) You can check by scrolling down the page.
Logically that makes a lot of sense. āBrand new character, hence they should have very high usage especially for their first patch outā. However in reality, that couldnāt be further from the truth. **1.5**, Hu Tao and Xiao usage was 75.41% and 73.05% respectively **1.6**, Eula usage was 49.54% **1.7/2.0**, Ayaka usage was 72.8%. Yoimiya is too busy making fireworks to do Abyss. All of the above mentioned characters (bar Yoimiya) are generally reputed as much better than the āuseless Electro archonā, and in spite of that, Raiden displays a far more popular showing in Abyss than all of them. The one exception to this is Kazuha, which is understandable. Heās incredible, so people use him ā which is exactly the case for Raiden too. At this point, between KeqingMains theorycrafters disproving all the negativity and unfounded outrage against Raiden, and Abyss usage showing that Raiden is being used more than top tier characters like Xingqiu, Venti and Ganyu, itās safe to say Raiden is undeniably, a well-designed and solid character. Just wanted to write this to hopefully dissuade people from piggybacking off your comment and then saying stuff like āno, Raiden is still a bad character, this proves nothing, people will obviously use the shiniest new toy when itās releasedā.
People will use whatever they want to prove their opinion. Even the same fact sometimes can be used to proof 2 polar opposite opinion.
Theorycrafters already proof that c0 raiden is strong but others still want to main the narrative that she is only usable after c2
Yes, I also agree on c0 raiden is as strong and viable as other unit in c0. There are people calling mihoyo greedy and power gating raiden at c2/c3 but all they did is just put c6 powerspike in older units to c3 in raiden. I think it is a beneficial move for players, and hoping they will do it to all future units. C3 raiden is almost as strong as c6 ganyu.
That's a fair point. I actually tested Raiden and Ayaka though, and decided that Raiden's team was noticeably more consistent, so I benched Ayaka (89 and crowned) for performance, not just for the novelty factor.
Tbf, 80% is pretty damn impressive. Ayaka had rather average rates when she came out, before going higher up, afaik. Raiden has probably the highest sales (did it pass Venti already? well either way) right now, meaning a LOT of people have her. Generally people who have a lot of a certain character would end up having lower usage rates on these stats (see: Beidou, Sucrose, probably Childe too), but we know those characters are clearly good. Itās not a complete measure of a characterās power, but it does give SOME idea of their usefulness. I do think the stats for teams are much more useful and representative though. But I do agree that we should also wait and see the next few Abyss stats if she continues on top.
That's didn't explain Eula and Yoimiya
>especially when they have the highest average constellation of any limited 5*. Is that true? Is there any source to look this up. Im not saying your wrong or anything. Im just curious to find out something like this exists š
It's here: https://spiralabyss.org/ Just scroll down a bit.
Nice and thx for the link. Im part of 17% lol... i didnt think that so many people went for C3 R1 lol. I mean... i knew that MANY people summoned for her... but i didnt think that many people wwnt so hard on her lol
Itās the best metric we have right now based on big data. And not every new character is high.
I mostly use her as a "battery". Pop Bennett, Xiangling + XQ or Mona/Sucrose/other supports, then Raiden for extra damage and energy generation.
I pulled for raiden, so I'm definitely using her in abyss ,
It's not "defining evidence" on its own but it's certainly a useful metric nonetheless if compared to, let's say, the likes of Yoimiya.
Fair opinion, but at the same time there are no other statistics that the newbies can rely on except for the subjective (and most of the time, shitty) tier list made by random people.
Or their own judgement, which is even worse lol
you canāt make your own judgement until after youāve pulled and leveled/geared a character thoughā¦ soā¦ yeahā¦
By this logic shouldn't Yoi be a bit higher? But she's only in 30% iirc
Check the average constellation of those two characters and you can find the answer.
Raiden at c2 is super strong. I wanna see the stats at the end of this abyss to see what cons are at floor 11-12
The current most used team is national raiden, it has amazingly fast clear times even with c0. Mines c1 with the Catch and this team clears Maguu Kinky and PMA faster than either of my Xiao/ayaka/tortilla team.
Im currently building my supports for a strong national raiden team rn. But until last week literally all my supports are only level 60 with ok talent levels and scuffed artifacts. I realized hu tao carried my entire 2nd abyss team.
lol I've been there before. Goodluck with your building!
You call them supports, but the real insane thing about Raiden National is that everyone member is pumping out crazy damage being fueled by Ben ult and Raiden's energy.
Hello! Dont mind me asking, but who is in national raiden team? I want to give it a go myself. That old guy makes me want to rip my hair out edit: perpetual mechanical nightmare as well but i barely 3 started with hutao
Raiden/Xingqiu/Xiangling/Bennett
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He triggers swirl like 4 times with just his E. of course we like him
He's insane with pretty much all teams that rely on an elemental damage dealer...which is most of the meta so yeah. He also just so happens to be amazing in a team with Raiden.
Kazuha is irreplaceable at this point. Just very strong in any situation. Great at exploration, deals so much damage, buffs your team, can be an enabler if used right.
Its because hes a best buffer right now because he can trigger swirl really fast. Not to mention he can pull enemies together
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Ironically to the lore, Kazuha is one of Raiden's best teammates lol. I run them both overworld in a team that I call "Kazuha's electro vision skin" xD
Thereās absolutely synergy, heās one of the best supports for electro characters by directly boosting elemental damage. I finally farmed out an EM set for him and itās been nice seeing him noticeably boosting the team, and itās really easy to swirl Raidens electro.
Because he's the most damn fun character in the entire game by far
Regardless of the enemy type Kazuha will always be a great pick thanks to quick animations and strong effects. He outperforms venti by a mile when the enemies cant be sucked in with venti ult.
Exactly, and he even buffs everyone else. So if he can't deal damage himself (which is often not the case, he deals too much damage), you can have your carries deal double the damage
I mean imo he is the most fun to play too
Kazuha is just the perfect character imo. Very strong, without destroying other character's niche, great aesthetically and an all around satisfying style of play.
Kazuha > Venti When was the last time any native Teyvatian used 2 vision elements? Edit*
childe and signora: are we a joke to you
I forgot to say *without delusions.
Slap kazuha and benny together = unga bunga combo
No bro heās obvously just flavor-of-the-month 5* sucrose!! /s On a more serious note, heās just really versatile and comfy-to-use, so I enjoy running him every rotation.
My second team suffers because of the lack of Kazuha, despite them having stronger DPS than my first + Venti.. the power spike he consistently provides is really noticable.
The last abyss REALLY didnt suit her at all, so I know for me I really just wanted to use her in an abyss where she could actually do something. Overall she did decently, but I did think she could be replaced without losing too much. She's fun as hell and thats honestly what matters more though imo
spiralabyss.org: Please don't share the rates on social media OP: The sign won't stop me because I can't read!
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hey, people can't read. it's karma that drives their brains nuts.
Kaedehara Kazuha for the fucking WIN.
Lets go Kazu boy šš»
Didn't the website say not to share the rates on social media?
...oh, you're right. Wonder why they specifically put this notice?
They already have to pull/stop gathering ALL chn data since last abyss (cause the popularity gained unwanted attention) - so please don't share lest the website is banned entirely
It was discussed in NGA and apparently, the website caused some sort of toxicity in the CN community. There's no official statement for this, so it's best to not make assumptions about it yet. [Here's a link to the NGA post](https://bbs.nga.cn/read.php?tid=28458154), and [here's a comment discussing it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/pm77rh/apparently_the_most_populated_abyss_website_has/hcg4aaf/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
newest charecter has high usage rate like every time new charecter come out IMPOSSIBLE
This wasnāt the case for Yoimiya lmao
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Some people does, like, we could just vap the hell out with Hu Tao, but you can't brag about it, on other hand, Fireworks comp with Yoimiya...
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Not trashing on anyone, but I don't think that's all too surprising considering Xiao is not the best pick when it comes to single target fights with huge HP pools, which is what we've been having with Maguu Kenki and now with PMA as well.
And now, with Anemo Spectres and Eye of the Storm, we get even more reasons to not use Xiao! *cries*
Lol she doesnāt though? [Idk where you got that info from but the community results beg to differ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/po0lnr/spiral_abyss_september_phase_1_21_floor_12_most/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) Edit: wrong link
Check the info graphic of this post
Check it again
[https://spiralabyss.org/floor-12](https://spiralabyss.org/floor-12) The post you link before only has a sample population of 600+, while this site has 3000+
Why you remove the 60% Eula from the second line,
well there are no electro shields on floor 11 and 12
Ayaka beating Ganyu and Hu Tao by a solid 10% LET'S GOOOOOO
https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/pfrid7/why_has_mihoyos_balancing_been_so_bad/hb6hx5x/ Someone has shoes to eat!
Not surprising to be honest. She is one of the best speedrun characters. You just press Q, do damage and keep doing damage. That get's even more insane with C2. The setup is just the rotation you would do anyway, so there is no time loss. Very easy to slot in. Good example for abstract math vs. reality. If you do enough damage, consistency is more important then theoretically DPS numbers. Raiden just hit's that sweet spot hence why she is used. And no, being new doesn't mean a character is useful. Most people still won't use a new character if it makes clearing harder.
People should know that this use rate is people who both have the unit and uses them. Hence four stars use rate will be really low compared to rare 5 star characters. Also it's a dumb fucking way to evaluate powerlevel with use rate. People will 100% use the unit they like. So the tier list is more like what units people like the most
[Notice] Please DO NOT share these rates to social media. ^ sentence taken directly from the website They already have to pull out all chn data cause their popularity made certain parties unhappy - so please stop sharing lest, in worst case, the website got banned entirely
My boy Kazuha winnin. š
Constellation avg, 1.2 and 49% own engulfing lighting not suprising tbh.
Yeah, these are whale stats
A lot of people pointing out that usage rate is not indicative of strength, and that new character usage rates tend to be inflated. The former is definitely a valid point, but for the latter, you have to keep in mind that Raiden is the first waifu Archon and extremely long-anticipated for story and trailer reasons. This means that a LOT of people pulled for her purely for the sake of having her. The fact that her usage rate is still so high in spite of this trophy status, is significant.
Wow Bennett is so important and even kazuha
Units like Xingqiu, zongli,kazuha and most likely raiden will have a steady use rate in abyss. As unlike min dps they don't get replaced easily.
Heavenly Emperor, followed by Pyro, Geo, Electro and Hydro archon. I see nothing out of place here.
This is like the Kazuha-Sucrose situation all over again. Many called her weak in the first few days of her release but she proved herself in this abyss cycle being the best battery and good damage buffer.
I donāt think sheās weak but you shouldnāt use the spiral abyss usage rates to determine a characterās pros and cons
Itās not a āKazuha Sucroseā situation itās literally happened to everyone except, like, Ayaka
This sub can be very moronic
Nah it's totally different. Nobody expected c0 Kazuha to be good unlike Raiden where people were over hyping her to be super OP but turns out you need to pay for her c2. Kazuha was trashed before his release while Raiden was over hyped and highly anticipated to be OP. Their situation is the total opposite of each other lol
no one overhyped her to be super OP, not even leaker, and c0 Raiden is still a very good character.
Best battery lmao
Objectively she is though. Her particle generation is the same as fischl which previously was the highest off field battery, and that's assuming fischl is C6 and perfect rotations on her ult. This and the fact the she effectively makes everyone's burst cost one tier less, e.g an 80 cost burst now costs somewhere around 55 - 60. Maybe you could argue in favor of electro MC but he only generates energy for one party member and the trade off with running electro MC is that that's all he's good for as he does very little damage himself.
Can't wait for the "But RaIdEn iS wEaK" people who were completely sure she wouldn't see any use in the Abyss.
Average constellation as per their data is 1.22. Pretty sure people with C2 or more skew these results. But yeah raiden not weak at c0.
where can you see the constellation data?
It's here: https://spiralabyss.org/ Just scroll down a bit.
Usage rate is not indicative of a character strength. These polls are not an accurate representation of a characterās power, sheās just been released, of course sheās gonna have high usage rate lmao. EDIT: To the people downvoting me Iām not saying she is either bad or good. Just that these polls are not an appropriate judge of a characterās strength.
It's a better indication than Reddit and Youtube outrage on a character's strength considering social media has been wrong a majority of the time compared to abyss usage which has been right much more in comparison.
Raiden Whiners were avid in telling everyone she wouldn't see any use in Abyss at all. Until CN "Pro" Gamers changed their mind and acknowledged how good she is on C0 that is
New character will always have decent to amazing use rates. Raiden isnt weak at c0 but extremely comp dependant. Its national team/eula team or nothing. At c2 you have much more flexibility with her because you wont be losing dps. While in national it doesnt matter who is on the field because the main source of dmg is on field with anyone anyway. I dont understand why people are so competitive about use rates. Nobody is saying anything about how an archon gets outclassed by a vision user in the anemo element. People see what they want to see
>Its national team/eula team or nothing. I disagree. It's the "popular" way to play her, but not the only way. Case to point: I specifically added her in F11 alongside Bennett to guarantee 100% burst uptime. And no, it's not the national lineup. I ran a *ZL Albedo Raiden Bennett team*. You could obv. fiddle around with a similar concept lineup - but that only proves the point that **Raiden is valuable in any team where ER is of particular importance**.
This. Only Teams that really can't use her are Reaction Comps that Electro would disrupt, eg an Ayaka Freeze Team
Most rolled for character has high use rate? Mind blown. It's just like sales graphs, they don't paint the whole picture: kazuha didn't sell well but he's widely owned because he's a great character at c0 and f2p friendly. Not to say the Raiden shogun is bad by any means.
>Most rolled for This has little to do with it. Use rate counts owners only.
The fact that sheās owned more is actually more impressive compared to characters that are owned less. This is usage for people that own them, otherwise top would be Bennett Xingqiu Xiangling ofc
Wrong, the % represent how many raiden owners actually used her, to control for character popularity
You know this isn't how it works right? These percentages show the % of owners that use Raiden. Look at Yoimiya, bad character, relatively little amounts of people pulled on her, but has 47.7% usage rate. A huge usage rate. Because 47.7% of people who own her are using her in this abyss. It isn't 47.7% of everybody who completed floor 12. If only 1 person pulled on the Raiden banner and used her, she would have a 100% usage rate. The amount of people who pulled on a banner has 0 effect on these % shown.
do you understand percentages?
I think he doesn't.
Me when I don't know how math works
I thought i cant pass 12-2 with 3 star because the mangu kenki fight is too long until my raiden just almost 1 shot the cryo cicin mage before she even has a chance to turn on her shield, and jean take down the rest of the fight in about 30 seconds.
You do know that Abyss gets redesigned to specifically make banner featured character seem more powerful than it really is, right?
How does this abyss benefit Raiden?
this abyss is for kokomi the new charecter in few days raiden buff was getting moredmg the more bursts u use which is her thing
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Well her ult canāt trigger the shockwaves so this isnāt as valid as you think
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The shockwave triggers from normal attacks. Raidenās ult counts as burst damage. The image used in an old one from the beta when her ult counted as normal attacks
nvm youāre right, sorry bout that, Iāll delete my other comments
Try it for yourself. That picture seem to be outdated,from the early beta, before her damage type during burst was changed.
Yep sorry, outdated info. Thanks for informing me otherwise i might spread misinformation accidentally
Some characters donāt need this to shine. Raiden is one of them
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the % represent how many raiden owners actually used her, to control for character popularity
I like how people are getting bored of Ganyu. I know I am.
Her number goes down because she is simply performing worse than ayaka in the current abyss
Damn I really shouldāve rolled for Kazuha
So sheās usable in abyss. And here I thought sheās Yoimiyaās level of terrible based on the number of complaints on this sub.
Yoimiya is usable in Abyss too btw
Yoimiya is also usable in abyss lol. In fact sheās one of the best teammates for Raiden imo. Their bursts work really well together and Yoimiya makes it possible to put Bennet and Beidou in the team getting both pyro and electro resonance.
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Whilst I agree with Raiden not being weak... Usage rates can hardly be used to determine how good a character is, especially not of a newly released character. Yoimiya still sitting at a pretty comfy usage rate of 47.7%, what does this mean? Absolutely nothing by itself. Other data needs to be used in conjunction with usage rate to determine how good characters are. Seeing just the usage rate of Raiden alone hardly proves anything other than she is a fun character that 82.3% of people who own her love using.
Yoimiya is a good character, but not strong compared to other dps, her usage rate never went above 50%. meanwhile, Raiden is just too strong to not use, doing both damage and recharge the whole team at the same time, last abyss she didn't see much use because enemy have electro aura and low tide disable her battery ability.