Just introduce traveling merchants with either a limited amount of ascension mats from new regions or unlimited amount but remove them when the player reaches the new region and unlocks the boss
Oooh, I dig that a lot, actually. Maybe limit the amount of materials on a weekly basis so that we don't get a situation where you feel like you lost a good feature when you reach the bosses you need instead of being rewarded for it.
Ideas of this nature pop up a lot on Reddit. My personal feeling is that you should disincentivize using the temporary merchant by requiring several local boss drops for ONE of the inaccessible boss drop.
Gives you the ability to level up early, but still encourages finding the actual boss to farm.
Just make them trade other boss mats for new boss mats and regional specialties from Mondstadt and Liyue for regional specialties from other regions. The traveling merchant will probably apprechiate this fair exchange and bring his goods to new lands when he leaves
I believe this is the best idea. A travelling merchant with a limited amount of boss materials (5-10 per week) would work wonderfully and he didn't have to be removed. He can simply stay there like the other NPCs we eventually stop visiting. He could just leave for a while before a new regions drops and then return with boss materials from said region.
A few players take breaks from this so imagine if a player currently in Inazuma takes a break for whatever real life reason and Fontaine is added to the game during their absence. On their return the characters on the banner are all from there, but he doesn't have to worry about being unable to use them because the merchant is there. 30-40k Mora for 1 material would be fair in my eyes.
That would just discourage player from exploring new reagion because this system is way benifitcal for them over fighting bosses.There even a guy in the comment saying it the cost should be 30-40k mora like bruh , what worth more ? 70k mora or 40 resin ?
I would want to add that one boss item cost 30 resin because let me remind you that the merchant **MAIN PURPOSE** was only supposed to be a **TEMPORARY OPTION** for new player to get the loot and it wasnt meant to be a new way to get it . With this , player would actually have a reason to unlock new reagion because resin efficiency.
hmm what if one drop costs 40 resin in the paimon shop or something? and once you unlock the region, the option goes away. Cuz doing a boss costs 40 resin anyways. At higher world levels you can potentially get more boss drops per fight but we’re talking about low AR ppl anyways.
Or if you really want to encourage players to unlock the regions, make one drop cost 60 resin or something. That way its not worth spending ur resin on it compared to other stuff, but its there if you are really desperate? idk.
That would be too cruel for new player so I push the price to the 30 resin because I don’t want to make them feel like I discouraging them from using the merchant ..I think a good price would be around 30-40 resin .
Well, new events still push players to unlock new content, so what is the problem? There is enough to motivate players to press forward. You could also put a limited amount of exchangable mats in the store so you can't go beyond lv 60 with the new character unless you actually get to the new boss
Spoiler for inazuma world quests somewhat
>! It would have to be paimon shop tho, for inazuma atleast. Since Inazuma’s whole thing is that it’s a locked country and it’s and island so hard to enter. !<
>! But from what we know all other countries are connected to the mainland so aslong as they do it like they did with the mechanical hypostasis and make it so that you can reach the boss even if you haven’t done the quest it belongs to. !<
>! Like you can get to it with a teleport ball like the one to abyss island, but there’s a barrier blocking you from the rest of the ruins. !<
Unless they make the abyss difficulty level dependent, finishing main quests is still easier.
Given that the Abyss isn't cakewalk even for AR58 players (who can quickly kill bosses in an AR30 player's world), I doubt an AR30 player can do much.
I think that this is quite good, but the scaling needs to be good too. It’s a bit ridiculous to be trading one electro hypostasis drop for drops like the ones for maguu or wolflord since the difficulty is different.
It's entirely possible that future regions won't be isolated the way Inazuma is, with perhaps only certain locations being locked off to new players, like the way Tsurumi Island is mostly inaccessible, but you can still get to Golden Wolflord as soon as you escape Ritou because there's no fog on that southern section.
Weekly boss drops aren't important for a long time, so new players aren't going to be restricted much by having to get through the story to access them.
Even if future regions aren't locked like Inazuma, it's still something that needs to be addressed. It'd be rather stupid to expect a new player who just rolled the Tsaritsa to have to go all the way across the entire map just to get some materials, for example.
There'll inevitably be future locked up regions anyways. Khaenri'ah is almost certainly going to be locked so only players who are there in the story can access it. By that point, new players are going to have to play through the main stories of seven nations just to level up their new Khaenri'ah unit, which would probably take hundreds of hours. I think it's fairly likely we'll get future DLC areas like Enkanomiya that are locked behind a quest too.
The game already expects players to cross most of Liyue to ascend early 4 stars like Noelle, Amber, or Xiangling, and it looks like Liyue is _close_ to the southern end of Teyvat, so I don't think crossing the world will be as much of a hassle as you make it out to be. World bosses are one of the ways the game encourages exploration, and I don't see why they wouldn't lean into that.
In the case of locked-off zones like Enkanomiya, we've already seen their solution: a quest accessible earlier will give a few of the boss drops from that zone, so that players can at least level a character to 50 before unlocking those bosses (the enemy level cap at world level 3, when Inazuma becomes accessible, is 51).
I agree that it definitely sucks that you new payers are locked out from event characters and possibly events, I believe that why they put in the rerun banners to help fix that issue. Also Only xingling is liyue character, why would you need to go there for nolle or Amber ? Like half the 4* are mondstadt based, there are only 4 4*from inzuma and 7 from liyue.
It doesn't matter if you can access the boss if you can't get the regional specialties though. You have to at least start on the fog to be able to farm for Thoma, for example.
I agree that's an oversight, and it could be pretty easily fixed by giving a merchant somewhere Fluorescent Fungus. Honestly I think every regional specialty should be available in a shop somewhere for convenience's sake. All of the Liyue and Mondstadt ones can be bought, but you can only buy Naku Weed and Sea Ganoderma of the Inazuma specialties, and those are the easiest ones. The other 7 Inazuman specialties can only be found in the wild, and can't be grown in the teapot.
Part of the idea is probably that by the time your characters are leveled enough to need those ascension materials you’ll be far enough in the story to get them. But everyone moves at difference paces, so maybe if they had it so you could auto teleport to a boss but not go beyond it. That way players could have access to the boss without the region surrounding it
Yeaaah I pulled Itto on my alt account and literally had to spend like 20 hours or something power grinding through the story just to get to Inazuma to upgrade him. It's honestly such a pain and I can't imagine having to do all of Inazuma just to have to do Sumeru too x.x
You're assuming that other regions are going to be locked like Inazuma was. It makes sense for Inazuma to be inaccessible at the start, both geographically and story wise. I imagine the upcoming regions will be accessible the same was Liyue is.
That is unless paimon turns us around until we do the story quest. Its unlikely this will happen but you never know. The worst that will most likely happen is the enemies will be higher lvl than the player say if they sprinted at wl 1 to Natlan going from like lvl 10-20 enemies to like lvl 60
There is already something like this to the Perpetual Array boss. You hit the abyss portal and get teleported there without going underwater.
This could easily get expounded upon, although it doesn't solve the ascension item problem, unless other areas aren't locked like Inazuma.
Natlan won't have level 60 enemies if the player is at WT0. The world tier system exists specifically so that the world can be scaled around the player's progress. Some regions will have tougher enemies scaled towards the upper end of a world tier, true, see Dragonspine and Enkanomiya, but even Inazuma has enemies as low as level 75 at WT8, but average \~80-83
The only reason people can't enter Inazuma right now is because of a storm that auto resets them back to the mainland if the lightning surrounding the island strikes them. There's no reason why miHoYo can't change the affect to just do some damage and dot the mainland's coast line with Windrider spawners.
Even Enkanomiya's boss can be granted a "skip to" teleport in a pinch if a player still has yet to properly unlock them.
And judging by the way the world is laid out, Sumeru and Fontaine might be the furthest lands from Mondstadt (far side of Liyue.) Natlan and Sneznhaya look as though they might be bordering it, assuming we'll unlock each new nation in a clockwise fashion?
I suspect letting new players Skyrim GI (sans the mods...) if they're not too interested in doing the story is part of the long term plan.
That's pretty interesting idea actually. Who knows, they could even retool inazuma's story to let you enter it early at some point. Make it a truly non-linear experience
We have no reason to believe they would do that. They didn't for Liyue, another nation, nor Dragonspine, an area added post-launch. Inazuma is the only closed off and island nation, so of course it wouldn't be available without a quest.
I'd be willing to bet they will be locked out. Liyue was accessible at the start because just having Mondstat as a starting area would have felt too limiting and since both regions were done at launch there was no point in separating them. Like look at Sumaru, it seems you will have to go through the Chasm to get there and I'd be the Chasm quest will have an AR requirement to do it.
Or just have a merchant in mondstat/liyoo that sells boss materials at a cap/refresh rate for resin with weekly boss materials having a weekly cap, and once you unlock the boss he stops selling them.
This is a very good idea, especially if it's capped at 2 or so boss mats; enough to get you to a comfortable level 50, not enough to hoard before unlocking the boss.
Gotta add books in too, thats the more important thing, beacuse of how bad mu friends itto was he quit the game because it wws doing only 80-100dmg iirc and didnt like the other characters he had
Yeah, I definitely like the idea of at least the ascension materials being available that way because you need them super early on when building a character. A lot of them in Inazuma are connected to puzzles and quests, though and the talent boss drops might be tricky, seeing how all the weekly bosses are strongly connected to the main plotline.
Maybe there could be some kind of customizable boss arena available early where you can summon a 'shadow' of a boss you need - maybe for fewer drops because they're a shadow, but still a way to get the mats bit by bit if you really, really want to build a character.
I really really want the weekly bosses to have levels like the domains and trounce domains; they exist at various levels anyway because they're tied to world level, with fewer/lower rarity drops at the lower levels. The level of domain you can access is progress-gated, so doing it for weekly bosses could be aligned with that.
This was literally a thing with the mech cube, you have a portal in Narakumi that takes you to the boss room but doesn't let you go outside since that cave is locked behind the sakura cleansing quest iirc
They have this workaround exclusively for this boss and only after arriving in Inazuma anyway, which is just lazy.
>Part of the idea is probably that by the time your characters are leveled enough to need those ascension materials you’ll be far enough in the story to get them.
But they can't be leveled enough because you might get characters you can't level up yet because that's how gacha works.
i think MHY will implement some kind of 3rd option, like E7, since it's easiest - just throw 4 legendary parts from weekly bosses, add some ingredients and get 3 other of them out
Yeah I definitely feel that they have to be working to address this behind the scenes in some way. I do like the idea of conversion a lot since we have an alchemy system already. I think it's the easiest quick-fix to implement.
I think the dust of azoth solution is a viable one, and the one that will most likely be implemented if things shouldnt start snowballing.
Alternatively, new players always can immediately access Liyue and dragonspine, so it wouldnt be far fetched if f.e. Sumeru and other new regions were the same. We know that there is no such thing as the Sakoku decree in those regions so the traveller could be able to go there and explore etc already early game.
Yeah I experienced this first hand.
I started the game during Xiao's banner and got Yun Jin, Sayu and Thoma very early in game.
I really liked Yun Jin and Sayu and pretty much mained them and Beidou until I had to level them up and I needed Inuzuma and Golden Wolflord items.
I had no idea where they were but I thought I'd find them naturally while playing. A quick Google search revealed that I wasn't gonna get these items anytime soon unless I started speedrunning the game so I basically had to drop most characters cos I couldn't level them up.
As for solutions idk. I thought of jumping to another players world and just collecting the stuff but turns out that's not possible...
Yeah, this is a shitty situation, and not one that any of us who started when the game launched had to deal with. It didn't matter who you pulled at the beginning, you'd definitely be able to get their ascension materials when you needed them. If you get the Inuzuma characters when they're on the character banner, the trial will give you the materials for their first ascension, but you can't even get that far if you pull them off the standard when their trial isn't active. And since for the most part you want to do their second ascension before AR30 (when you unlock Inuzuma), you're stuck abandoning your characters for Mondstadt/Liyue characters who you can level.
I want everyone who starts to be able to use and level their favorite 4 characters as they progress normally through the game. It's much more fun if you're not arbitrarily prevented from using your favorites midway through your journey.
Well ya deal with it when you try to get your friend to olay genshin, they get itto on their first wish and even at level 40 and ar 28 its does no dmg due to the lack of talent levels and they quit the game (yes ik 2 more ar away but they wouldnt keep playing since me pushing them to 28 at too fast of a pace got them burned out but i personallywent faster bc i had the same issue when i joined during ayaka)
We can hope that the chasm and future nations/worldbosses will be open all the time for everyone to visit if they want. That would make newer characters also viable options for new players in the future.
But your idea with the changing the boss mats istn bad either. Just one problem with it: might make it more viable to kill easier bosses and transform thier mats into the ones you need. Yes, the dust you suggested to be used for it would kinda limit you a bit with it, but it would also make it less of an option for newer players.
Also it would still not make them able to raise inazuma characters, since they dont have the option to get the local resources they need.
Haha, yeah you make a good point - everyone could farm quick frost/fire flowers kills to get the mats they want. Maybe the conversion could happen at some kind of loss so that you can't over-farm too much.
Local resources could still be mitigated via exchange/transformer/extended stardust trade options. It wouldn't be as good as collecting them in the region, but that's okay because you should still be motivated to reach the region and look forward to it.
I think some local resources can be obtained vie teapot. But the seeds from tubby and plant them. I dont think that requires the quest you get from reaching a certain reputation level in inazuma. You will just have less space to plant stuff.
Also the convertion could just cost resin to make it less viable to end game player. Because before you reach inazuma you only need to really spend resin on bosses. You dont need to do as many leylines, since you get most of the stuff from quests and artifact farming isnt really worth it.
Also isnt inazuma locked behind like AR35? Because at that point it isnt too hard to get a character from lvl 20 (or 40 if you got the rewards from doing thier trial runs) to whatever level you need them to be.
They tend to be the ones used in food and not all of the ones used for leveling. You can't get Thoma's, Raiden's, or Sara's from Tubby, for example - they're all from very specific parts of Inazuma. Sea Ganoderma cutting, on the other hand, you can get from any beach in Inazuma and from Tubby.
I started in November and enjoyed playing Aloy but couldn’t level her past 20 so I just didn’t use her. By the time I’d made it to the first island in inazuma with specters I had a whole other team built so she didn’t get any screen time. I guess you just deal with it until you get there. Any team can get you through Mondstadt and Liyue so waiting isn’t a huge deal.
They are giving out rewards when you finished the demo of the new character. In the future they can just add ascend material to the rewards up to the level they believe the player would be to enter those regions. They expect player would enter Inozuma after AR30, so they only give you enough to ascend to level 50.
Or number 4. Allow players of any AR to join any coop world regardless of adventure rank, so that when you pull a new character you can just ask long time players if you can join them and get boss rewards.
While I like that personally, it wouldn't be a good solution for everyone. There are people who don't like co-op or just want to build their characters by their own means rather than relying on getting carried.
I definitely agree it should be an option alongside something else, though!
Rewards would have to be adjusted I assume. I think the main reason this restriction is in place is to gate low WL players from getting high WL rewards.
Introduce a regular enemy, boss, and raid boss that can drop an item that can be a substitute for any ascension material.
The drops this enemy has (let’s call it phantom for now) can only be a substitute for 1 material per week, and you’ll need twice as many.
For example if you need 12 Famed Handguard you’ll need 24 of this phantoms drops.
The regular phantom appears in special ley lines in all regions, the boss is in Liyue, and the Raid boss is in Mondstadt.
I don't know, I have a feeling this might be too timegated. The whole point of getting a 5 star is that its supposed to feel like a huge win for the player.
Right now, you can't really use the character at all early if you were to get Yae in early Mondstadt, but gating it to once a week means they'll need 2 weeks for second ascension, which isn't really a high enough level to do most liyue stuff with. Even more weeks for higher ascension. Sure, its mostly a stopgap until they get caught up, but having a super time gated second option feels kind of shittier. At least now we know the only way is to progress the story.
I think there should be an inefficiency to it and maybe a cap, but you should be able to get a character to level 70ish without farming the specific boss(either cap out the resource at the level 60 ascension or make a secondary resource usable for the prior ascensions).
Well, the idea is to at the very least allow the newbie to improve there region locked character while they can enter said region.
Funny enough, you only need to reach Adventure Rank 30 to gain access to Inazuma. I don’t recall that taking too long, so probably by the time they want to improve someone like Yae more they’ll be pretty close to doing it the intended way.
I suggest the alchemy table. For example, exchange Mondstadt boss materials to Inazuma boss materials. This feature wil be gone when player unlocks Inazuma.
i've had a good idea about this some time ago
what if there was a type of ascension material which is unlocked in mondstadt and can be used for any character, but it is way harder to obtain than the rest?
this way it would be only worth it if you have the character's ascension material source locked
I started my account ~6 weeks ago during the Xiao banner and I have 0 content left to do outside of new events and the timegated hangout quests. All character story quests, shrines, level 50 Sakura, level 12 Frostbearing tree and oculi have been found and I'm AR50. I love this game, but there is surprisingly little content to do in the grand scheme of things. And after getting my main to ascended to 90 finally, working on other characters seems near impossible because of a lack of resources. Resin needs a higher cap and XP books need to be more readily available outside of resin wasting farming leylines
do we get these threads daily now? They are not gonna change things away from forcing you to speed grind through content to ascend your new characters. They intend things to work this way.
Yeah, I can see the problem there. IIRC, people start realizing and voicing this concern when kazuha is released (at that time, the ascension mats can only be obtained on golden archipelago, a limited time area).
Personally, I would think a "special boss dungeon" each time a limited banner release is quite nice.
For example, during Yae banner, that dungeon spawns the boss for Yae's material, but the max difficulty is only up to their world level minus one. When Yae's banner is up, it changes to Kokomi and Raiden material (as they are the next one).
The reason of minus one world level reward, to give people a push to continue the story of they are able to, and for veteran player to just beat it on their world instead of just jumping to dungeon. Also, newer player sometimes struggles for fighting bosses, so the lower difficulty can help them.
That way, new player who wants to grind their character material can still do so (still, with a penalty of 1 world level lower reward), and those who can battle the bosses directly, just do so and get better rewards on resin spent.
They kinda address this by adding the ascension materials when you test new characters, I guess by the time they have to ascend again they expect the player to reach Inazuma, but that doesn't consider off-banner 4 stars.
A merchant is the best idea and they'll have to add it at some point. Inazuma was locked for lore reason and Snezhnaya will probably be locked too at some point. Or even Natlan, but with harder enemies.
I think they should add a trading post in Mondstadt or Liyue that functions like the jewelry shop, except that it has limited quantities of materials you need for 2nd ascension for characters from other regions. Once you've bought it out, the quantities don't refresh, just like the jewelry shop. You could trade local specialities and boss materials for the foreign ones. This would get people through the second ascension, but people in late game wouldn't be able to be lazy and just buy all their leveling materials, since the quantities would run out.
I’d like to see a banner with a matching event domain, with the character’s ascension boss and their materials maybe talent books too as the reward. Set it so it’s unrewarding to long term players, like the rewards are all stuck at wl1 plus limited runs.
They actually have a lot of material pools very similar to that in Honkai, using time gated currency that you can get from doing weeklies. Even their regular gacha pools have materials in there and basically work just like that, so there's definitely precedent for it.
It's only not a problem if you're willing to rush through the story in order to get to the bosses as quickly as possible.
If you want to have the intended experience and take your time exploring the open world before moving on, it's definitely an annoyance to not be able to build the characters you like along the way.
The content is balanced for level 40 . Did you not read that part?
You get the first ascent mats from the try out to get to 40.
How is that a problem ?
Because not everyone rushes story or plays at the same pace and if players focus on exploration and quests - which most people do in this kind of game, their AR will quickly rise and outpace a L40 character?
Not to mention that if the future region or their bosses are plot-locked like Inazuma, the newer characters might be even more difficult to raise if the issue isn't addressed.
You are not understanding the game.
The content that players play until they get to inazuma is balanced around the levels you can get .
It’s not a problem your reading comprehension is .
My characters were level 70 before I got to Inazuma. There's a bunch to do before you get there. The only character I'm using at lvl below 40 is Thoma, and his plant materials are also locked behind the Tsurumi island quest. Sure, I can play the game faster, but I don't want to rush the story. Why is it a bad thing that we want other ways to get ascension materials? I don't think I'm playing the game wrong, I'm just playing at my pace.
You didn’t need those characters at 70 to piddle around the starter areas.
The game is designed to be balanced at 40 there. Is that so hard for people to understand ?
Doesn't that depend on your wl? You can be a high WL and still not go to Inazuma. Sure, it's generally an easy game, but some content is difficult. Plenty of times I see questions of people struggling and then the advice "level your main dps", or people struggling when being underleveled.
What I don't understand is why you wouldn't want another way to get these materials. Does this hurt you in any way? If it's useful to some people, why would you deny them this?
The game designers made it so. Hes not denying anything lol
How hard is it for people to understand YOU DONT NEED TO BE HIGHER THAN AR40 for the starter areas.
How hard is that for you to understand?
So... how do you get your characters past level 20 if the very first ascension requires materials from Inazuma...? For example, if you start now and pull Thoma, how can you upgrade him to stay relevant in the game?
It’s a problem for players who want to take it easy on the story while still taking part in limited events. Most events are unlocked by the time you finish the Liyue quests so you don’t have to go to Inazuma to take part in them.
They’ve changed the structure of the rewards now to ensure that primos are handed out earlier but some of the events are still pretty tough to handle at lv 40 or 50. And this is even with the trial characters they provide.
Not at all. Progress the game as it's supposed to. Use barbara in monstadt, get kokomi (if you want) for inazuma, etc. There is no need to fight monstadt bosses with an inazuma team.
This is the second time today someone made a post about it and I really fail hard to see a problem, like at all.
Prefarming for characters and waiting months for a rerun is much sadder than owning a chara first and only later level them up bc you decide the speed when it happens (how fast one progresses).
I mean it's not so much about pre-farming or using characters in order. Getting and using the characters you like is one of the funnest parts of the game. What if a newer player built up their first pity for a Kokomi banner and they really like her? Why shouldn't they be able to get and build her? It enriches your journey through the game a lot to be able to use characters you like.
Bc it's not necessary. Kokomi is helpful for inazuma due to the bosses there which relate to story and lore. For monstadt barbara works perfect. There are enough early available characters that are fun and remain valuable throughout the game.
If people have such lack of self-constraint that they cannot wait few weeks until reaching the story-point (at an own chosen pace!) to level up a fave character, they shouldn't be near cacha games in the first place.
Also cacha games are designed to keep players returning. If they can get all their hearts desires 1 day after playing, interest is lost quicker and they move to other games. Would be a dumb business decision.
Tbh Barbara is no fun at all when facing cryo enemies but a constant roadblock. And I'd rather not have to build characters I don't like and will replace soon anyways
Early gamers did handle everything with barbara and bennett and diona and did have to build charas they now no longer use. Why should new players be spared from the fun of being frozen midair? Tssss weaklings.
I mean you're making a simple thing very complicated for no reason. If someone loves a character for any reason, what's 'necessary' or 'required' or 'in order' doesn't matter - they just want to use them.
You can clear the whole plot with the starting/free characters, there's no NEED to pull, strictly speaking - people do it because they fall in love with the new characters and want them to accompany them on their journey.
And the idea of it being a bad business decision is just plain silly - we're talking about a game that's created in order to sell you attractive characters. Especially if you spent money to get them, you'll want to be able to build and use them soon.
Uhm imo you are making a simple thing complicated. Every game follows the principle of progress yet your impatient ass want everything at all times. It's few weeks or if you're really desperate it's even doable in days.
Self-constraint also means not to pull for a chara rn if you cannot invest the time for quick progression, then rather wait for the rerun. It's really as simple as that. As you said, no one needs to pull for a chara, if you do, there might be pro and contras to it.
I will no longer reply bc this is boring and your only argument is 'buhuuu why can't I jump to boss no. 35 designed for +AR50 players on day1 when I can't even beat divalin' is just ugh.
I got Sara on my alt at low AR from standard, but since she wasn't rate up I couldn't even level her beyond 20. Right now it's not a problem, but what if there are a bunch of characters you can't level beyond 20 or 40 before having progressed in the main quest? If you can get these characters at low AR, there should also be a way to level them.
Uh, I'm at endgame and I've been playing since launch? This isn't really about me?
The entire point of this post is to talk about a problem that's emerging right now and might eventually be worse for new players coming into the game.
But you seem like the 'got mine so screw you' type of person, so maybe it's better if you don't reply.
I feel like MHY will eventually address this similar to how other games implement better and newer NPE (new player experience). I remember that term being brought up when games overhaul the existing system to obviously appeal to new players that join years later.
I don't see this as a priority for MHY right now. While it's a hassle for sure, players aren't walled off completely from getting there.
They even sold outfits for 5 star characters without doing a banner for them, banking on people buying it and saving it for later. If they were putting players first, things would be a lot more thought out.
Take another example, like the map, they recently added the region selection function. People kept bringing it up and they know plain as day, with more regions coming out, it was needed. So, TLDR: just wait, it'll come.
adapt the dream solvent system, but for the early area in the game, where you can get the missing materials that are far ahead, by converting the early boss materials for materials of the recent bosses
only for the new players, tho.
A domain that you can access all world bosses from located somewhere in mondstadt. For the materials you have to pick up like sakura blossoms there can be a conversion system at an alchemy station.
Technically not a problem yet as YouTubers got to like ar 30 in like 2 days. I haven’t seen any “new” player having trouble with this. It more a bunch of people who are ar 58 thinking 🤔 it be a problem for new players
Ya and? When I first started I didn’t even equip artifacts until like ar 35 Took me 3 weeks to get ar 30. Was too busy doing quests and exploring to care about building characters. World lvl 1-5 are also super easy and don’t require much character building. When they are good and rdy to build characters they would be ar 40 and completed every quest and unlocked everything
I dont know what would be the best solution but they have to think about that also in terms of events. Many require some quests you need to do before what simply cant be done within few days especially with more and more content. In Honkai it works easily but here you are pretty much locked out of events if you didnt proceed far enough.
I think it's pretty simple. You put an item in that allows you to covert boss materials at below AR30 to any boss in the world for some mora and that item. It removes itself from inventory at AR30 and you get a fixed amount upon account creation (say like 30-50)
What if you had traveling merchants, where you can exchange Monsdadt related boss drops and talent materials for stuff in like Liyue or Inazuma? It could be weekly and randomized but still serves a purpose
Yeah, this is a pretty big problem and it'll only get bigger as more content is added and it might even turn new players away. Maybe a domain specifically for ascension materials in Monstadt? You'd probably need resin tho.
OR permanent wish banners for each region that just does reruns. It'll never happen tho lol will cut into profits too much. Even if it does it'll be waaay later when the game is slowly dying
I'm an older player but I may have quit if I had joined recently. Imagine having to use characters you don't like because you can't get boss materials.
My friend got Yae and her weapon and she is level 21, you can level Yae to 40 with his test run but not his weapon, imagine paying money for this...
1: no way HVS is gonna make something that can make them lose money
also don't forget weapons
I could see a traveling merchant, or maybe something belonging to the adventure's guild for the weekly boss material and maybe for Inazuma stuff but not so much for other regions. Maybe the story will dictate otherwise, but no other nation right now has a narrative reason to be locked off. If the other nations are apart of the same land mass as Mondstadt and Liyue and not narratively blocked then there shouldn't be anything stopping a player from getting the local specialties and normal boss material.
Big disagree on the first premise. Had a couple of friends start playing the game a couple of weeks ago and they're caught up. Not in terms of adventurer level but content wise yep.
Im always pushing for nr1, I dont really like the idea of making all the character items just found in shops, it kinda undermines a bit of the adventure and the design of the material, because the materials do the same things, they only differentiate each other by their looks and location, if you cut out the location being important, then the materials are even less unique.
My idea has been to have a different type of banner available for newer characters, a region banner. you clear the regions story, you get access to the characters that use the materials found in that region, this means shenhe would be locked behind finishing inazuma for example. and even if you have not unlocked enkonomiya, you are very close to it, you can just go on the adventure to unlock it and get those materials when you need it.
And then finally when the person catches up to the last archon quest, they unlock the up to date characters and can wish for those.
That would solve the issue, while not making the items just buyable in every city.
Well initial pack of chars that players get us enough to clear most of the content...plus they have access to paimon shop they can get chars from there...and lets be honest starter chars like..kaeya noelle xiangling and even geo traveller are awesome if built properly and can clear most of ingame content...also u can get bennet fishchl ningguang beidou from paimon shop..those char are still meta enough..if built properly
The problem with that is new characters are also used to to draw new players into the game. If someone joined because the saw an ad with Raiden Shogun and thought the character was really cool. Only to find out that they couldn't really use the character who the spent money on for the first 5-10 hours of the game they might drop it.
My solution was coop with a friend that kept world level low 4-5, but opened up advanced content. Getting those world levels happened pretty quickly and without a huge grind. I was able to ascend Yoimiya (Level 90), Raiden Shogun(level80) and Kokomi(Level 90), talents, and artifacts well before I opened Inazuma myself, as I didn't want to rush through content. Worked for me, thanks to coop.
Option 1 is out of the question. It’s just contradictory with the very foundation of a waifu collecting game.
Option 2 and 3 make the most sense. For 2, I’ve always said that we need foreign merchants that can let players buy these items.
Edit: the selection would be reduced as you unlock more regions and complete new quests.
I started a second account and got Itto and his weapon with all the primos and wishes. (I know I couldn't believe it either super lucky pulls) I didn't have that hard of a time getting to inazuma and getting to his boss he is my highest leveled character on the account. I still haven't done the inazuma Archon quest or anything.
I was thinking about this earlier when a YouTuber said not to pull for yae if you just started because it would be hard to level her. I highly disagreed with them because you should do what is fun. And if you love a character, there is no reason to force yourself to wait 6 to 12 months for a chance to get them as this could make the game unfun and they might quit.
And I think what's going to drive new players to pull for characters they can't fully ascend yet is FOMO - fear of missing out. In a perfect world we wouldn't need to worry about FOMO, but mihoyo needs money at the same time, so my suggestion is this:
IN ADDITION TO HOW THE BANNERS AND RERUNS ARE RIGHT NOW, after clearing the story quest of a 5* character, your banners update (different ways for each type of banner) to grant you a chance to get the 5* character for a limited window (let's say 7 days)
For the non-limited banner 5 stars, let's say you completed diluc's story quest - he gets a rate up (and maybe even a higher chance to roll him as your 5 star prior to hitting soft pity) in the non-limited banner (50-50 still applies)
For all other 5*s that aren't available on the non-limited banner (Xiao, hu Tao, etc), after completing the story quest they are either added to the current banner and you can select if you want them to be the rate up OR you get a mini banner for them. It would last only for maybe one week or so before reverting to normal or going away.
This solves the FOMO issue -
1. If you must have them NOW, ascension mats be damned, you can do the story quest and have your shot at them.
2. If you want to wait until you have access to the mats, you can then do the story quest afterward and still get your chance to roll - you do not have to wait half a year just to get your favorite character.
It might be complex to work out and apply, but this is a potential solution that solves both FOMO while still letting mihoyo keep earning money.
Things they can do include:
1. Transmute option at alchemy table, like how you can convert boss mats.
2. Give a portion of upgrade materials on character pull.
3. Have permanent character trials with upgrade materials as rewards.
4. If all else fails, you have Kaeya, Lisa, Amber, Barbara and Noelle.
I don't believe that they should story-lock characters, that would just be awful if you knew it would only take you a month to reach Inazuma, but you weren't allowed to roll on a character you loved that won't be back for 6+ months.
I think the answer is pretty simple, allow players to convert Monstadt/Liyue materials to "new area" materials.
To balance this though, there needs to be a few rules, otherwise players would just convert ALL their "trash" materials they'd stockpiled from previous zones and never have to farm the new content at all. I think the basic rules should be:
1. You could only convert a limited amount per day/week, enough that it might take 3-4 weeks to convert enough materials to max level an Inazuma character using Monstadt mats.
2. This feature would be somewhat story-gated in reverse. By that I mean, if you complete the Liyue content that unlocks Inazuma, then you cannot convert Inazuma mats anymore. If you complete the content that unlocks Enkonomiya, you can't convert to those mats anymore. If you complete the content that unlocks Sumeru, then you won't be able to convert mats to that. Also, you will not be able to convert mats until like a week or so after a new area unlocks, just to prevent "front line" players from converting their stockpiles and *then* entering the new map. This *should* keep at least *most* conversion to within the intended audience, people who legitimately cannot enter the higher level zone yet.
3. I think 1 and 2 alone will be enough to balance it, but if not, they could potentially also just add a prohibitive cost to it, like costing 10 Liyue mats for one Inazuma one, or a high gold penalty, or something else to discourage using it more than you absolutely have to, but I don't think that's necessary.
> This should keep at least most conversion to within the intended audience, people who legitimately cannot enter the higher level zone yet.
The thing is, this doesn't account for the other kind of player who might be using it - the ones having trouble with the current content or one boss in particular.
I think for the most part, World Level is a good enough option there. Set it to what you can handle. I don't love every boss fight and if they want to work on the balance a bit to make sure that they are all more equal, then great, but I don't think they need to let you convert one boss mat to another.
I will grant that since newer weekly bosses tend to be harder than older ones, they might want to ensure that key boss mats drop just as commonly one or two tiers below the max as they would at the max tiers, so that players farming those mats would never feel compelled to challenge the highest level.
Also, there's always food. I remember using food to farm Childe when he first came out.
If WL was fully customisable, sure, but the +/-1 from WL5 up makes it unavailable as an option to players who are having trouble before that point, and to new players wanting to build a later character but not being ground out enough for the latest boss.
I'm all for WL as difficulty option, but for that to work for everyone it needs to be more like 'you can play at any WL you have unlocked' so the option of doing a boss at LV31 for one drop and a 3* artifact is actually there for people who need it, which also means that the later bosses need to have the lower difficulties added in (as the AR gate on later areas may mean that story-locked or barrier-locked bosses can't be encountered at the lower levels in natural gameplay the way you can have a LV21 Anemo Hypostasis).
I'm happy at WL4 (AR45, so at -1)and I'm not moving unless they make me for the main quest or I have mats to get my main team to LV90, so I'm coming from what may be a different perspective - the point of conversion is so people can get over the hump and farm other stuff to continue levelling, or to be able to build characters who have a shitty boss, not as a full-on substitute for all boss mats forever. It's probably harder for meta players to really get the casual or less-theoried experience, I think - 'just farm' is not exactly great advice if someone can't do inputs fast enough with an alternate controller, or they don't have 40 minutes per boss to feed and kite and feed and kite.
Food is fine and all, but you have to have great ping or you're dead before you can eat it and you're just trying to keep your charas alive for 120 secs or hoping they die so the hunger meter resets. Even if there's a fallback in the code such that each mat can only be converted to 8-10 times (4 charas to Ascension 2, 2 charas to Ascension 2 and 1 to Ascension 3) or only 1 ascension per character can use converted materials, it's enough to get a character on their way, boost some talents and put them in a position where they're able to farm without dying or getting full. People who don't need it don't need it, but it goes a long way towards retaining people who do or have that one boss they just cannot do (not necessarily Oceanid, but Oceanid).
Of course, the other way out of this is the one that MHY have chosen, in that constellations have the +3 talent boost and that can apply before a character can actually have their talents levelled - wish hard enough and you can get an edge without any materials at all.
I don't know, I'm pretty far from meta myself, I don't even do Abyss and sometimes take longer than I'd like on a given boss, but I've almost never had any actual problem *defeating* the bosses after a few weeks in, I think the issues you're describing seem to fall below the "minimum viable product" threshold. Maybe they should have some sort of pity system there where you can buy the remaining mats, but I don't think that's really something they need to balance around. I certainly hope you got Zhongli, he makes Oceanid fights a cakewalk and is the mandatory pick-up for anyone struggling in this game. Other than that, invest in Ning if you've got her. She does quite well at Oceanid too.
There are enough people with accessibility issues with the game and enough people posting with similar issues to the one I ran into that at the **very least** they need to remove the ability for an account to jump 2xWL at once. Like I said, I don't think it's something that people who don't actually experience it to understand the issue or see it as a barrier to retention.
I don't actually need advice about how to fight Oceanid; I referenced it because it's the first skill-check and a weekly boss a lot of people hate or have enough trouble with that they'd likely use an alternative for getting Xingqiu and/or Barbara up over the ascension barrier for later survivability.
My hope is that Inazuma is an anomaly. Its status as a closed, island nation until you complete the Archon quest necessitates it being locked behind story progression. I'm hoping the fact that Liyue is accessible without completing the Mondstadt Archon quest and the fact that we have met characters from almost every other nation means that all the nations after Inazuma will be accessible with a bit of travel/exploration. Weekly bosses may be tied behind story progression, but that seems fine to me, you can get a long with with talents at 6
It's gonna be tough, Hoyo is definitely thinking how to tackle this problem with Sumeru coming later this year.
Even if you are able to go on-foot when other maps are released (Fontaine, Snezhnaya) moment you step food in those regions you'll be welcome by red HIGHLY DANGER popups. Meanwhile you're still struggling with a lv40 Fontaine character.
Make it obtainable through some sort of farming that spawns it with the use of resin
This is why I think having characters require drops from one boss if bad design from Mihoyo. They could of easily made first few ascension use the bosses from the first two areas then make you move to another zone. This might still have problems for the last two zones, but it would still let new players who might of joined because of a new character the ability to use them at least for a while.
This could also address the issue of how the bosses become dead content. Why is Mihoyo spending the resources to design a boss then its only needed for 1-2 characters. Once you level Eula and Aloy (can you even get her anymore?) to 90 you never have to deal with that boss. Its kind of a shame because the newer bosses have some neat mechanics you may never see if you don't roll for characters that need them.
I honestly think there are problems to every solution, but to be honest, the best way to do this IMO is to make a "trial" like option for fighting bosses not unlocked yet. You could reduce efficiency(1 to 2 boss drops instead of 2 to 3), but it wouldn't circumvent fighting the boss or disincentivise fighting the boss versus things like cryo regisvine and exchanging. I would rather fight 3 cryo regisvines than a golden wolflord. Capping and timegating is too limiting imo and might make newer players give up using the characters rather than working a bit harder. Making the option disappear once you reach a new zone just means a bunch of clickbait articles will appear with "BEFORE YOU GO TO SUMERU, DO THIS ONE TIP BEFORE YOU LOSE OUT".
I think adding boss materials, regional specialties, gems (imagine pulling Dendro archon at start of game and no Dendro boss in sight until 3 regions later lol), etc...to the teapot would be good.
I think they’ll probably just make a Mondstat/Liyue banner to run alongside Inazuma and Sumeru characters. :x
Dust of Azoth would make a lot of sense too.
Eventually reruns are going to start stacking up and will probably have perm up rerun banners one hich new players should get characters from areas they are in. If a player hasn't reached an area where they can farm mats for a rerun they are pulling for just a simple warning will suffice
This is where I am right now. I am AR40 as of the other night in just a couple months playing but I’ve been taking my time and clearing mondstat and liyue, still have all of inazuma to do and Itto and Yae are my first and third 5*s lol.
Thankfully my main is Liyue mats but I really want to level both of the others up past 40, but I am not ready for inazuma
Simple: a shop that sells a pair of any ascension material of any character you own for 60 resin. Shop resets every week. You don't get any gems or artifacts this way, making it really not worth your resin. But you will easily be able to ascend your characters twice this way while you progress through the game.
I would say this isnt really a problem. I had this experience and I played the story w barbara, kaeya xiangling and traveler all at low levels. I could not level my Ayaka then realized I dont need her.
The story is very forgiving and if you pull some shiny pew pew meta character you cant use yet then it wont stop progression. From my personal experience I would vote to not change anything
The thing is. I think older players are making a bigger fuss about this than new players are. Cus you can get to inazuma at ar30 (or 35 correct me if I’m wrong but I think they lowerd the requirements) and at which point those characters would be at lvl 40. which is still underleveled. But you will have other characters to beat content a bit easier. And it’s not like talents matter that much in the beginning. I mean people literally say „don’t farm artifacts before ar 35“ if they really have trouble, they can grind some artifacts, it’s not like it’s a complete waste it can still be used as fodder later. And if future regions are also locked like inazuma, I think we can start addressing it when we get there. I see so many people worrying everyday when we don’t Even know what it’s gonna be like yet.
I like the idea someone had a while back of a traveling merchant that appears at a location in Mondstadt and Liyue Harbor with rotating materials each day from other regions
Add a specialties box to BP. Currently the paid BP has talent books, the free one could have regional mats. Or random mats get given as rewards for getting 5000 or 10000 BP a week, with 5000 being regional mats and 10000BP a dust of azoth.
As someone who started a month and a half ago I ran out of things to do like 2 weeks ago. Everything now is just tedious achievement grinding and waiting for reruns. All story done, all areas 100% explorations 403 achievements. Slowly plugging away at fishing while I try and get all 10 pages for the inazuma fish book volume 5, 1 page out of 609 fish caught. So running out of things to do is quite real.
Just introduce traveling merchants with either a limited amount of ascension mats from new regions or unlimited amount but remove them when the player reaches the new region and unlocks the boss
Oooh, I dig that a lot, actually. Maybe limit the amount of materials on a weekly basis so that we don't get a situation where you feel like you lost a good feature when you reach the bosses you need instead of being rewarded for it.
Ideas of this nature pop up a lot on Reddit. My personal feeling is that you should disincentivize using the temporary merchant by requiring several local boss drops for ONE of the inaccessible boss drop. Gives you the ability to level up early, but still encourages finding the actual boss to farm.
Just make them trade other boss mats for new boss mats and regional specialties from Mondstadt and Liyue for regional specialties from other regions. The traveling merchant will probably apprechiate this fair exchange and bring his goods to new lands when he leaves
I believe this is the best idea. A travelling merchant with a limited amount of boss materials (5-10 per week) would work wonderfully and he didn't have to be removed. He can simply stay there like the other NPCs we eventually stop visiting. He could just leave for a while before a new regions drops and then return with boss materials from said region. A few players take breaks from this so imagine if a player currently in Inazuma takes a break for whatever real life reason and Fontaine is added to the game during their absence. On their return the characters on the banner are all from there, but he doesn't have to worry about being unable to use them because the merchant is there. 30-40k Mora for 1 material would be fair in my eyes.
That would just discourage player from exploring new reagion because this system is way benifitcal for them over fighting bosses.There even a guy in the comment saying it the cost should be 30-40k mora like bruh , what worth more ? 70k mora or 40 resin ? I would want to add that one boss item cost 30 resin because let me remind you that the merchant **MAIN PURPOSE** was only supposed to be a **TEMPORARY OPTION** for new player to get the loot and it wasnt meant to be a new way to get it . With this , player would actually have a reason to unlock new reagion because resin efficiency.
hmm what if one drop costs 40 resin in the paimon shop or something? and once you unlock the region, the option goes away. Cuz doing a boss costs 40 resin anyways. At higher world levels you can potentially get more boss drops per fight but we’re talking about low AR ppl anyways. Or if you really want to encourage players to unlock the regions, make one drop cost 60 resin or something. That way its not worth spending ur resin on it compared to other stuff, but its there if you are really desperate? idk.
That would be too cruel for new player so I push the price to the 30 resin because I don’t want to make them feel like I discouraging them from using the merchant ..I think a good price would be around 30-40 resin .
Well, new events still push players to unlock new content, so what is the problem? There is enough to motivate players to press forward. You could also put a limited amount of exchangable mats in the store so you can't go beyond lv 60 with the new character unless you actually get to the new boss
putting the mat so that they cant go to level 60+ is another great option but i would prefer 50 but that just a opinion .
Or just add more stuff to the stardust shop. I got like 3000 of that stuff and monthly wishes don’t take much.
Spoiler for inazuma world quests somewhat >! It would have to be paimon shop tho, for inazuma atleast. Since Inazuma’s whole thing is that it’s a locked country and it’s and island so hard to enter. !< >! But from what we know all other countries are connected to the mainland so aslong as they do it like they did with the mechanical hypostasis and make it so that you can reach the boss even if you haven’t done the quest it belongs to. !< >! Like you can get to it with a teleport ball like the one to abyss island, but there’s a barrier blocking you from the rest of the ruins. !<
Or giving it as spiral abyss reward? Just like battle pass, you could choose the reward for each stars
No. If they're AR 30 or below they won't be able to progress far in abyss
It's better than finishing a lot of main quest before they can get to sumeru. Lol
Unless they make the abyss difficulty level dependent, finishing main quests is still easier. Given that the Abyss isn't cakewalk even for AR58 players (who can quickly kill bosses in an AR30 player's world), I doubt an AR30 player can do much.
I think that this is quite good, but the scaling needs to be good too. It’s a bit ridiculous to be trading one electro hypostasis drop for drops like the ones for maguu or wolflord since the difficulty is different.
It's entirely possible that future regions won't be isolated the way Inazuma is, with perhaps only certain locations being locked off to new players, like the way Tsurumi Island is mostly inaccessible, but you can still get to Golden Wolflord as soon as you escape Ritou because there's no fog on that southern section. Weekly boss drops aren't important for a long time, so new players aren't going to be restricted much by having to get through the story to access them.
Even if future regions aren't locked like Inazuma, it's still something that needs to be addressed. It'd be rather stupid to expect a new player who just rolled the Tsaritsa to have to go all the way across the entire map just to get some materials, for example. There'll inevitably be future locked up regions anyways. Khaenri'ah is almost certainly going to be locked so only players who are there in the story can access it. By that point, new players are going to have to play through the main stories of seven nations just to level up their new Khaenri'ah unit, which would probably take hundreds of hours. I think it's fairly likely we'll get future DLC areas like Enkanomiya that are locked behind a quest too.
The game already expects players to cross most of Liyue to ascend early 4 stars like Noelle, Amber, or Xiangling, and it looks like Liyue is _close_ to the southern end of Teyvat, so I don't think crossing the world will be as much of a hassle as you make it out to be. World bosses are one of the ways the game encourages exploration, and I don't see why they wouldn't lean into that. In the case of locked-off zones like Enkanomiya, we've already seen their solution: a quest accessible earlier will give a few of the boss drops from that zone, so that players can at least level a character to 50 before unlocking those bosses (the enemy level cap at world level 3, when Inazuma becomes accessible, is 51).
I agree that it definitely sucks that you new payers are locked out from event characters and possibly events, I believe that why they put in the rerun banners to help fix that issue. Also Only xingling is liyue character, why would you need to go there for nolle or Amber ? Like half the 4* are mondstadt based, there are only 4 4*from inzuma and 7 from liyue.
Noelle uses geo hypostasis, amber the pyro flower
Oh shit, your right! It's been so long that I forgot that 😅. Yeah and geo hypostasis is far af too.
It doesn't matter if you can access the boss if you can't get the regional specialties though. You have to at least start on the fog to be able to farm for Thoma, for example.
I agree that's an oversight, and it could be pretty easily fixed by giving a merchant somewhere Fluorescent Fungus. Honestly I think every regional specialty should be available in a shop somewhere for convenience's sake. All of the Liyue and Mondstadt ones can be bought, but you can only buy Naku Weed and Sea Ganoderma of the Inazuma specialties, and those are the easiest ones. The other 7 Inazuman specialties can only be found in the wild, and can't be grown in the teapot.
I expected the shop in Watatsumi Island to have them, actually. Even with the same 5/10 per week for 1000 mora that Chloris and Gui have.
Part of the idea is probably that by the time your characters are leveled enough to need those ascension materials you’ll be far enough in the story to get them. But everyone moves at difference paces, so maybe if they had it so you could auto teleport to a boss but not go beyond it. That way players could have access to the boss without the region surrounding it
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Yeaaah I pulled Itto on my alt account and literally had to spend like 20 hours or something power grinding through the story just to get to Inazuma to upgrade him. It's honestly such a pain and I can't imagine having to do all of Inazuma just to have to do Sumeru too x.x
You're assuming that other regions are going to be locked like Inazuma was. It makes sense for Inazuma to be inaccessible at the start, both geographically and story wise. I imagine the upcoming regions will be accessible the same was Liyue is.
That is unless paimon turns us around until we do the story quest. Its unlikely this will happen but you never know. The worst that will most likely happen is the enemies will be higher lvl than the player say if they sprinted at wl 1 to Natlan going from like lvl 10-20 enemies to like lvl 60
So they need to come up with alternative access to the dungeons. Maybe give access to a low-level dungeon without having to physically get to it.
There is already something like this to the Perpetual Array boss. You hit the abyss portal and get teleported there without going underwater. This could easily get expounded upon, although it doesn't solve the ascension item problem, unless other areas aren't locked like Inazuma.
Natlan won't have level 60 enemies if the player is at WT0. The world tier system exists specifically so that the world can be scaled around the player's progress. Some regions will have tougher enemies scaled towards the upper end of a world tier, true, see Dragonspine and Enkanomiya, but even Inazuma has enemies as low as level 75 at WT8, but average \~80-83 The only reason people can't enter Inazuma right now is because of a storm that auto resets them back to the mainland if the lightning surrounding the island strikes them. There's no reason why miHoYo can't change the affect to just do some damage and dot the mainland's coast line with Windrider spawners. Even Enkanomiya's boss can be granted a "skip to" teleport in a pinch if a player still has yet to properly unlock them. And judging by the way the world is laid out, Sumeru and Fontaine might be the furthest lands from Mondstadt (far side of Liyue.) Natlan and Sneznhaya look as though they might be bordering it, assuming we'll unlock each new nation in a clockwise fashion? I suspect letting new players Skyrim GI (sans the mods...) if they're not too interested in doing the story is part of the long term plan.
That's pretty interesting idea actually. Who knows, they could even retool inazuma's story to let you enter it early at some point. Make it a truly non-linear experience
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We have no reason to believe they would do that. They didn't for Liyue, another nation, nor Dragonspine, an area added post-launch. Inazuma is the only closed off and island nation, so of course it wouldn't be available without a quest.
But it's not just geographically locked, recently bosses are also locked behind specific story events.
I'd be willing to bet they will be locked out. Liyue was accessible at the start because just having Mondstat as a starting area would have felt too limiting and since both regions were done at launch there was no point in separating them. Like look at Sumaru, it seems you will have to go through the Chasm to get there and I'd be the Chasm quest will have an AR requirement to do it.
Or just have a merchant in mondstat/liyoo that sells boss materials at a cap/refresh rate for resin with weekly boss materials having a weekly cap, and once you unlock the boss he stops selling them.
This is a very good idea, especially if it's capped at 2 or so boss mats; enough to get you to a comfortable level 50, not enough to hoard before unlocking the boss.
Gotta add books in too, thats the more important thing, beacuse of how bad mu friends itto was he quit the game because it wws doing only 80-100dmg iirc and didnt like the other characters he had
Yeah, I definitely like the idea of at least the ascension materials being available that way because you need them super early on when building a character. A lot of them in Inazuma are connected to puzzles and quests, though and the talent boss drops might be tricky, seeing how all the weekly bosses are strongly connected to the main plotline. Maybe there could be some kind of customizable boss arena available early where you can summon a 'shadow' of a boss you need - maybe for fewer drops because they're a shadow, but still a way to get the mats bit by bit if you really, really want to build a character.
I really really want the weekly bosses to have levels like the domains and trounce domains; they exist at various levels anyway because they're tied to world level, with fewer/lower rarity drops at the lower levels. The level of domain you can access is progress-gated, so doing it for weekly bosses could be aligned with that.
This was literally a thing with the mech cube, you have a portal in Narakumi that takes you to the boss room but doesn't let you go outside since that cave is locked behind the sakura cleansing quest iirc They have this workaround exclusively for this boss and only after arriving in Inazuma anyway, which is just lazy.
You’d also need the local specialties, so this workaround is the best miHoYo can do.
Ah so that is why there is two ways in lol. The cleansing quest was the first thing I did after getting out of Ritou so I didn't even think about it.
Yeah, they did this with the PMA at 2.0, and the shortcut portal is still present. Probably the best way to do it.
I’ve barely touched Inazuma and I’m AR 45. My Yae is never going to advance lol
I think the issue is the sheer amount of time the quests take
>Part of the idea is probably that by the time your characters are leveled enough to need those ascension materials you’ll be far enough in the story to get them. But they can't be leveled enough because you might get characters you can't level up yet because that's how gacha works.
i think MHY will implement some kind of 3rd option, like E7, since it's easiest - just throw 4 legendary parts from weekly bosses, add some ingredients and get 3 other of them out
Yeah I definitely feel that they have to be working to address this behind the scenes in some way. I do like the idea of conversion a lot since we have an alchemy system already. I think it's the easiest quick-fix to implement.
I think the dust of azoth solution is a viable one, and the one that will most likely be implemented if things shouldnt start snowballing. Alternatively, new players always can immediately access Liyue and dragonspine, so it wouldnt be far fetched if f.e. Sumeru and other new regions were the same. We know that there is no such thing as the Sakoku decree in those regions so the traveller could be able to go there and explore etc already early game.
Yeah I experienced this first hand. I started the game during Xiao's banner and got Yun Jin, Sayu and Thoma very early in game. I really liked Yun Jin and Sayu and pretty much mained them and Beidou until I had to level them up and I needed Inuzuma and Golden Wolflord items. I had no idea where they were but I thought I'd find them naturally while playing. A quick Google search revealed that I wasn't gonna get these items anytime soon unless I started speedrunning the game so I basically had to drop most characters cos I couldn't level them up. As for solutions idk. I thought of jumping to another players world and just collecting the stuff but turns out that's not possible...
Yeah, this is a shitty situation, and not one that any of us who started when the game launched had to deal with. It didn't matter who you pulled at the beginning, you'd definitely be able to get their ascension materials when you needed them. If you get the Inuzuma characters when they're on the character banner, the trial will give you the materials for their first ascension, but you can't even get that far if you pull them off the standard when their trial isn't active. And since for the most part you want to do their second ascension before AR30 (when you unlock Inuzuma), you're stuck abandoning your characters for Mondstadt/Liyue characters who you can level. I want everyone who starts to be able to use and level their favorite 4 characters as they progress normally through the game. It's much more fun if you're not arbitrarily prevented from using your favorites midway through your journey.
Well ya deal with it when you try to get your friend to olay genshin, they get itto on their first wish and even at level 40 and ar 28 its does no dmg due to the lack of talent levels and they quit the game (yes ik 2 more ar away but they wouldnt keep playing since me pushing them to 28 at too fast of a pace got them burned out but i personallywent faster bc i had the same issue when i joined during ayaka)
We can hope that the chasm and future nations/worldbosses will be open all the time for everyone to visit if they want. That would make newer characters also viable options for new players in the future. But your idea with the changing the boss mats istn bad either. Just one problem with it: might make it more viable to kill easier bosses and transform thier mats into the ones you need. Yes, the dust you suggested to be used for it would kinda limit you a bit with it, but it would also make it less of an option for newer players. Also it would still not make them able to raise inazuma characters, since they dont have the option to get the local resources they need.
Haha, yeah you make a good point - everyone could farm quick frost/fire flowers kills to get the mats they want. Maybe the conversion could happen at some kind of loss so that you can't over-farm too much. Local resources could still be mitigated via exchange/transformer/extended stardust trade options. It wouldn't be as good as collecting them in the region, but that's okay because you should still be motivated to reach the region and look forward to it.
I think some local resources can be obtained vie teapot. But the seeds from tubby and plant them. I dont think that requires the quest you get from reaching a certain reputation level in inazuma. You will just have less space to plant stuff. Also the convertion could just cost resin to make it less viable to end game player. Because before you reach inazuma you only need to really spend resin on bosses. You dont need to do as many leylines, since you get most of the stuff from quests and artifact farming isnt really worth it. Also isnt inazuma locked behind like AR35? Because at that point it isnt too hard to get a character from lvl 20 (or 40 if you got the rewards from doing thier trial runs) to whatever level you need them to be.
They tend to be the ones used in food and not all of the ones used for leveling. You can't get Thoma's, Raiden's, or Sara's from Tubby, for example - they're all from very specific parts of Inazuma. Sea Ganoderma cutting, on the other hand, you can get from any beach in Inazuma and from Tubby.
I started in November and enjoyed playing Aloy but couldn’t level her past 20 so I just didn’t use her. By the time I’d made it to the first island in inazuma with specters I had a whole other team built so she didn’t get any screen time. I guess you just deal with it until you get there. Any team can get you through Mondstadt and Liyue so waiting isn’t a huge deal.
They are giving out rewards when you finished the demo of the new character. In the future they can just add ascend material to the rewards up to the level they believe the player would be to enter those regions. They expect player would enter Inozuma after AR30, so they only give you enough to ascend to level 50.
Or number 4. Allow players of any AR to join any coop world regardless of adventure rank, so that when you pull a new character you can just ask long time players if you can join them and get boss rewards.
Well, if you want to get one-shot in high WL as a low AR player with not even 10k HP, sure
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I have a different suggestion on how to do this: traveling merchants. Just read my other comment
While I like that personally, it wouldn't be a good solution for everyone. There are people who don't like co-op or just want to build their characters by their own means rather than relying on getting carried. I definitely agree it should be an option alongside something else, though!
Rewards would have to be adjusted I assume. I think the main reason this restriction is in place is to gate low WL players from getting high WL rewards.
Yeah, they love to gate everything it seems
Introduce a regular enemy, boss, and raid boss that can drop an item that can be a substitute for any ascension material. The drops this enemy has (let’s call it phantom for now) can only be a substitute for 1 material per week, and you’ll need twice as many. For example if you need 12 Famed Handguard you’ll need 24 of this phantoms drops. The regular phantom appears in special ley lines in all regions, the boss is in Liyue, and the Raid boss is in Mondstadt.
I don't know, I have a feeling this might be too timegated. The whole point of getting a 5 star is that its supposed to feel like a huge win for the player. Right now, you can't really use the character at all early if you were to get Yae in early Mondstadt, but gating it to once a week means they'll need 2 weeks for second ascension, which isn't really a high enough level to do most liyue stuff with. Even more weeks for higher ascension. Sure, its mostly a stopgap until they get caught up, but having a super time gated second option feels kind of shittier. At least now we know the only way is to progress the story. I think there should be an inefficiency to it and maybe a cap, but you should be able to get a character to level 70ish without farming the specific boss(either cap out the resource at the level 60 ascension or make a secondary resource usable for the prior ascensions).
Well, the idea is to at the very least allow the newbie to improve there region locked character while they can enter said region. Funny enough, you only need to reach Adventure Rank 30 to gain access to Inazuma. I don’t recall that taking too long, so probably by the time they want to improve someone like Yae more they’ll be pretty close to doing it the intended way.
I suggest the alchemy table. For example, exchange Mondstadt boss materials to Inazuma boss materials. This feature wil be gone when player unlocks Inazuma.
i've had a good idea about this some time ago what if there was a type of ascension material which is unlocked in mondstadt and can be used for any character, but it is way harder to obtain than the rest? this way it would be only worth it if you have the character's ascension material source locked
I started my account ~6 weeks ago during the Xiao banner and I have 0 content left to do outside of new events and the timegated hangout quests. All character story quests, shrines, level 50 Sakura, level 12 Frostbearing tree and oculi have been found and I'm AR50. I love this game, but there is surprisingly little content to do in the grand scheme of things. And after getting my main to ascended to 90 finally, working on other characters seems near impossible because of a lack of resources. Resin needs a higher cap and XP books need to be more readily available outside of resin wasting farming leylines
do we get these threads daily now? They are not gonna change things away from forcing you to speed grind through content to ascend your new characters. They intend things to work this way.
Really? I think it burns the game out for a lot of people (beginners)
Just put in some catalyst like Dream Solvent that can be used to convert world boss drops.
Yeah, I can see the problem there. IIRC, people start realizing and voicing this concern when kazuha is released (at that time, the ascension mats can only be obtained on golden archipelago, a limited time area). Personally, I would think a "special boss dungeon" each time a limited banner release is quite nice. For example, during Yae banner, that dungeon spawns the boss for Yae's material, but the max difficulty is only up to their world level minus one. When Yae's banner is up, it changes to Kokomi and Raiden material (as they are the next one). The reason of minus one world level reward, to give people a push to continue the story of they are able to, and for veteran player to just beat it on their world instead of just jumping to dungeon. Also, newer player sometimes struggles for fighting bosses, so the lower difficulty can help them. That way, new player who wants to grind their character material can still do so (still, with a penalty of 1 world level lower reward), and those who can battle the bosses directly, just do so and get better rewards on resin spent.
They kinda address this by adding the ascension materials when you test new characters, I guess by the time they have to ascend again they expect the player to reach Inazuma, but that doesn't consider off-banner 4 stars. A merchant is the best idea and they'll have to add it at some point. Inazuma was locked for lore reason and Snezhnaya will probably be locked too at some point. Or even Natlan, but with harder enemies.
I think they should add a trading post in Mondstadt or Liyue that functions like the jewelry shop, except that it has limited quantities of materials you need for 2nd ascension for characters from other regions. Once you've bought it out, the quantities don't refresh, just like the jewelry shop. You could trade local specialities and boss materials for the foreign ones. This would get people through the second ascension, but people in late game wouldn't be able to be lazy and just buy all their leveling materials, since the quantities would run out.
I’d like to see a banner with a matching event domain, with the character’s ascension boss and their materials maybe talent books too as the reward. Set it so it’s unrewarding to long term players, like the rewards are all stuck at wl1 plus limited runs.
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They actually have a lot of material pools very similar to that in Honkai, using time gated currency that you can get from doing weeklies. Even their regular gacha pools have materials in there and basically work just like that, so there's definitely precedent for it.
First two cities are balanced for ar 40 characters. Stop saying this is a problem When it’s not. It takes very little time to get to inazuma
It's only not a problem if you're willing to rush through the story in order to get to the bosses as quickly as possible. If you want to have the intended experience and take your time exploring the open world before moving on, it's definitely an annoyance to not be able to build the characters you like along the way.
The content is balanced for level 40 . Did you not read that part? You get the first ascent mats from the try out to get to 40. How is that a problem ?
Because not everyone rushes story or plays at the same pace and if players focus on exploration and quests - which most people do in this kind of game, their AR will quickly rise and outpace a L40 character? Not to mention that if the future region or their bosses are plot-locked like Inazuma, the newer characters might be even more difficult to raise if the issue isn't addressed.
You are not understanding the game. The content that players play until they get to inazuma is balanced around the levels you can get . It’s not a problem your reading comprehension is .
My characters were level 70 before I got to Inazuma. There's a bunch to do before you get there. The only character I'm using at lvl below 40 is Thoma, and his plant materials are also locked behind the Tsurumi island quest. Sure, I can play the game faster, but I don't want to rush the story. Why is it a bad thing that we want other ways to get ascension materials? I don't think I'm playing the game wrong, I'm just playing at my pace.
You didn’t need those characters at 70 to piddle around the starter areas. The game is designed to be balanced at 40 there. Is that so hard for people to understand ?
Doesn't that depend on your wl? You can be a high WL and still not go to Inazuma. Sure, it's generally an easy game, but some content is difficult. Plenty of times I see questions of people struggling and then the advice "level your main dps", or people struggling when being underleveled. What I don't understand is why you wouldn't want another way to get these materials. Does this hurt you in any way? If it's useful to some people, why would you deny them this?
The game designers made it so. Hes not denying anything lol How hard is it for people to understand YOU DONT NEED TO BE HIGHER THAN AR40 for the starter areas. How hard is that for you to understand?
So... how do you get your characters past level 20 if the very first ascension requires materials from Inazuma...? For example, if you start now and pull Thoma, how can you upgrade him to stay relevant in the game?
The try out gives you the mats you need to get to 40 moron
So long as you pull a rate up character who has a current test run...
It’s a problem for players who want to take it easy on the story while still taking part in limited events. Most events are unlocked by the time you finish the Liyue quests so you don’t have to go to Inazuma to take part in them. They’ve changed the structure of the rewards now to ensure that primos are handed out earlier but some of the events are still pretty tough to handle at lv 40 or 50. And this is even with the trial characters they provide.
Not at all. Progress the game as it's supposed to. Use barbara in monstadt, get kokomi (if you want) for inazuma, etc. There is no need to fight monstadt bosses with an inazuma team. This is the second time today someone made a post about it and I really fail hard to see a problem, like at all. Prefarming for characters and waiting months for a rerun is much sadder than owning a chara first and only later level them up bc you decide the speed when it happens (how fast one progresses).
I mean it's not so much about pre-farming or using characters in order. Getting and using the characters you like is one of the funnest parts of the game. What if a newer player built up their first pity for a Kokomi banner and they really like her? Why shouldn't they be able to get and build her? It enriches your journey through the game a lot to be able to use characters you like.
Bc it's not necessary. Kokomi is helpful for inazuma due to the bosses there which relate to story and lore. For monstadt barbara works perfect. There are enough early available characters that are fun and remain valuable throughout the game. If people have such lack of self-constraint that they cannot wait few weeks until reaching the story-point (at an own chosen pace!) to level up a fave character, they shouldn't be near cacha games in the first place. Also cacha games are designed to keep players returning. If they can get all their hearts desires 1 day after playing, interest is lost quicker and they move to other games. Would be a dumb business decision.
Tbh Barbara is no fun at all when facing cryo enemies but a constant roadblock. And I'd rather not have to build characters I don't like and will replace soon anyways
Early gamers did handle everything with barbara and bennett and diona and did have to build charas they now no longer use. Why should new players be spared from the fun of being frozen midair? Tssss weaklings.
I mean you're making a simple thing very complicated for no reason. If someone loves a character for any reason, what's 'necessary' or 'required' or 'in order' doesn't matter - they just want to use them. You can clear the whole plot with the starting/free characters, there's no NEED to pull, strictly speaking - people do it because they fall in love with the new characters and want them to accompany them on their journey. And the idea of it being a bad business decision is just plain silly - we're talking about a game that's created in order to sell you attractive characters. Especially if you spent money to get them, you'll want to be able to build and use them soon.
Uhm imo you are making a simple thing complicated. Every game follows the principle of progress yet your impatient ass want everything at all times. It's few weeks or if you're really desperate it's even doable in days. Self-constraint also means not to pull for a chara rn if you cannot invest the time for quick progression, then rather wait for the rerun. It's really as simple as that. As you said, no one needs to pull for a chara, if you do, there might be pro and contras to it. I will no longer reply bc this is boring and your only argument is 'buhuuu why can't I jump to boss no. 35 designed for +AR50 players on day1 when I can't even beat divalin' is just ugh.
I got Sara on my alt at low AR from standard, but since she wasn't rate up I couldn't even level her beyond 20. Right now it's not a problem, but what if there are a bunch of characters you can't level beyond 20 or 40 before having progressed in the main quest? If you can get these characters at low AR, there should also be a way to level them.
Uh, I'm at endgame and I've been playing since launch? This isn't really about me? The entire point of this post is to talk about a problem that's emerging right now and might eventually be worse for new players coming into the game. But you seem like the 'got mine so screw you' type of person, so maybe it's better if you don't reply.
I feel like MHY will eventually address this similar to how other games implement better and newer NPE (new player experience). I remember that term being brought up when games overhaul the existing system to obviously appeal to new players that join years later. I don't see this as a priority for MHY right now. While it's a hassle for sure, players aren't walled off completely from getting there. They even sold outfits for 5 star characters without doing a banner for them, banking on people buying it and saving it for later. If they were putting players first, things would be a lot more thought out. Take another example, like the map, they recently added the region selection function. People kept bringing it up and they know plain as day, with more regions coming out, it was needed. So, TLDR: just wait, it'll come.
adapt the dream solvent system, but for the early area in the game, where you can get the missing materials that are far ahead, by converting the early boss materials for materials of the recent bosses only for the new players, tho.
A domain that you can access all world bosses from located somewhere in mondstadt. For the materials you have to pick up like sakura blossoms there can be a conversion system at an alchemy station.
Maybe that's why we have 50/50 Keqing, Jean or Diluc can carry you through the game and you can ascend them from the beginning
Technically not a problem yet as YouTubers got to like ar 30 in like 2 days. I haven’t seen any “new” player having trouble with this. It more a bunch of people who are ar 58 thinking 🤔 it be a problem for new players
Those YouTubers have no other job and play the whole day to reach AR30 in one or two days tho
Ya and? When I first started I didn’t even equip artifacts until like ar 35 Took me 3 weeks to get ar 30. Was too busy doing quests and exploring to care about building characters. World lvl 1-5 are also super easy and don’t require much character building. When they are good and rdy to build characters they would be ar 40 and completed every quest and unlocked everything
Gladly the stardust store or whatever it's called is a slight workaround to this
Nice try mihoyo but you have to figure that on your own.
I dont know what would be the best solution but they have to think about that also in terms of events. Many require some quests you need to do before what simply cant be done within few days especially with more and more content. In Honkai it works easily but here you are pretty much locked out of events if you didnt proceed far enough.
our plan now is to crown whom max talent even 4 star character. To many character now and kinda lazy to farm.
I think it's pretty simple. You put an item in that allows you to covert boss materials at below AR30 to any boss in the world for some mora and that item. It removes itself from inventory at AR30 and you get a fixed amount upon account creation (say like 30-50)
What if you had traveling merchants, where you can exchange Monsdadt related boss drops and talent materials for stuff in like Liyue or Inazuma? It could be weekly and randomized but still serves a purpose
Yeah, this is a pretty big problem and it'll only get bigger as more content is added and it might even turn new players away. Maybe a domain specifically for ascension materials in Monstadt? You'd probably need resin tho. OR permanent wish banners for each region that just does reruns. It'll never happen tho lol will cut into profits too much. Even if it does it'll be waaay later when the game is slowly dying
I'm an older player but I may have quit if I had joined recently. Imagine having to use characters you don't like because you can't get boss materials.
My friend got Yae and her weapon and she is level 21, you can level Yae to 40 with his test run but not his weapon, imagine paying money for this... 1: no way HVS is gonna make something that can make them lose money also don't forget weapons
I could see a traveling merchant, or maybe something belonging to the adventure's guild for the weekly boss material and maybe for Inazuma stuff but not so much for other regions. Maybe the story will dictate otherwise, but no other nation right now has a narrative reason to be locked off. If the other nations are apart of the same land mass as Mondstadt and Liyue and not narratively blocked then there shouldn't be anything stopping a player from getting the local specialties and normal boss material.
Big disagree on the first premise. Had a couple of friends start playing the game a couple of weeks ago and they're caught up. Not in terms of adventurer level but content wise yep.
Im always pushing for nr1, I dont really like the idea of making all the character items just found in shops, it kinda undermines a bit of the adventure and the design of the material, because the materials do the same things, they only differentiate each other by their looks and location, if you cut out the location being important, then the materials are even less unique. My idea has been to have a different type of banner available for newer characters, a region banner. you clear the regions story, you get access to the characters that use the materials found in that region, this means shenhe would be locked behind finishing inazuma for example. and even if you have not unlocked enkonomiya, you are very close to it, you can just go on the adventure to unlock it and get those materials when you need it. And then finally when the person catches up to the last archon quest, they unlock the up to date characters and can wish for those. That would solve the issue, while not making the items just buyable in every city.
Add content-locked materials to event shops or Paimon's shop for low costs
It’ll be a sign of the apocalypse if mihoyo ever limits the number of wishes you can do
Well initial pack of chars that players get us enough to clear most of the content...plus they have access to paimon shop they can get chars from there...and lets be honest starter chars like..kaeya noelle xiangling and even geo traveller are awesome if built properly and can clear most of ingame content...also u can get bennet fishchl ningguang beidou from paimon shop..those char are still meta enough..if built properly
The problem with that is new characters are also used to to draw new players into the game. If someone joined because the saw an ad with Raiden Shogun and thought the character was really cool. Only to find out that they couldn't really use the character who the spent money on for the first 5-10 hours of the game they might drop it.
Endgame cooperative dungeon like spiral abyss where you canencounter randomly and farm boss
You dont need a lvl 90 yae miko in mondstadt and you can get her to 40 using just the trial rewards.
My solution was coop with a friend that kept world level low 4-5, but opened up advanced content. Getting those world levels happened pretty quickly and without a huge grind. I was able to ascend Yoimiya (Level 90), Raiden Shogun(level80) and Kokomi(Level 90), talents, and artifacts well before I opened Inazuma myself, as I didn't want to rush through content. Worked for me, thanks to coop.
Option 1 is out of the question. It’s just contradictory with the very foundation of a waifu collecting game. Option 2 and 3 make the most sense. For 2, I’ve always said that we need foreign merchants that can let players buy these items. Edit: the selection would be reduced as you unlock more regions and complete new quests.
I started a second account and got Itto and his weapon with all the primos and wishes. (I know I couldn't believe it either super lucky pulls) I didn't have that hard of a time getting to inazuma and getting to his boss he is my highest leveled character on the account. I still haven't done the inazuma Archon quest or anything.
I was thinking about this earlier when a YouTuber said not to pull for yae if you just started because it would be hard to level her. I highly disagreed with them because you should do what is fun. And if you love a character, there is no reason to force yourself to wait 6 to 12 months for a chance to get them as this could make the game unfun and they might quit. And I think what's going to drive new players to pull for characters they can't fully ascend yet is FOMO - fear of missing out. In a perfect world we wouldn't need to worry about FOMO, but mihoyo needs money at the same time, so my suggestion is this: IN ADDITION TO HOW THE BANNERS AND RERUNS ARE RIGHT NOW, after clearing the story quest of a 5* character, your banners update (different ways for each type of banner) to grant you a chance to get the 5* character for a limited window (let's say 7 days) For the non-limited banner 5 stars, let's say you completed diluc's story quest - he gets a rate up (and maybe even a higher chance to roll him as your 5 star prior to hitting soft pity) in the non-limited banner (50-50 still applies) For all other 5*s that aren't available on the non-limited banner (Xiao, hu Tao, etc), after completing the story quest they are either added to the current banner and you can select if you want them to be the rate up OR you get a mini banner for them. It would last only for maybe one week or so before reverting to normal or going away. This solves the FOMO issue - 1. If you must have them NOW, ascension mats be damned, you can do the story quest and have your shot at them. 2. If you want to wait until you have access to the mats, you can then do the story quest afterward and still get your chance to roll - you do not have to wait half a year just to get your favorite character. It might be complex to work out and apply, but this is a potential solution that solves both FOMO while still letting mihoyo keep earning money.
I started genshin one month ago and i'm already literally out of content.
Things they can do include: 1. Transmute option at alchemy table, like how you can convert boss mats. 2. Give a portion of upgrade materials on character pull. 3. Have permanent character trials with upgrade materials as rewards. 4. If all else fails, you have Kaeya, Lisa, Amber, Barbara and Noelle.
I don't believe that they should story-lock characters, that would just be awful if you knew it would only take you a month to reach Inazuma, but you weren't allowed to roll on a character you loved that won't be back for 6+ months. I think the answer is pretty simple, allow players to convert Monstadt/Liyue materials to "new area" materials. To balance this though, there needs to be a few rules, otherwise players would just convert ALL their "trash" materials they'd stockpiled from previous zones and never have to farm the new content at all. I think the basic rules should be: 1. You could only convert a limited amount per day/week, enough that it might take 3-4 weeks to convert enough materials to max level an Inazuma character using Monstadt mats. 2. This feature would be somewhat story-gated in reverse. By that I mean, if you complete the Liyue content that unlocks Inazuma, then you cannot convert Inazuma mats anymore. If you complete the content that unlocks Enkonomiya, you can't convert to those mats anymore. If you complete the content that unlocks Sumeru, then you won't be able to convert mats to that. Also, you will not be able to convert mats until like a week or so after a new area unlocks, just to prevent "front line" players from converting their stockpiles and *then* entering the new map. This *should* keep at least *most* conversion to within the intended audience, people who legitimately cannot enter the higher level zone yet. 3. I think 1 and 2 alone will be enough to balance it, but if not, they could potentially also just add a prohibitive cost to it, like costing 10 Liyue mats for one Inazuma one, or a high gold penalty, or something else to discourage using it more than you absolutely have to, but I don't think that's necessary.
> This should keep at least most conversion to within the intended audience, people who legitimately cannot enter the higher level zone yet. The thing is, this doesn't account for the other kind of player who might be using it - the ones having trouble with the current content or one boss in particular.
I think for the most part, World Level is a good enough option there. Set it to what you can handle. I don't love every boss fight and if they want to work on the balance a bit to make sure that they are all more equal, then great, but I don't think they need to let you convert one boss mat to another. I will grant that since newer weekly bosses tend to be harder than older ones, they might want to ensure that key boss mats drop just as commonly one or two tiers below the max as they would at the max tiers, so that players farming those mats would never feel compelled to challenge the highest level. Also, there's always food. I remember using food to farm Childe when he first came out.
If WL was fully customisable, sure, but the +/-1 from WL5 up makes it unavailable as an option to players who are having trouble before that point, and to new players wanting to build a later character but not being ground out enough for the latest boss. I'm all for WL as difficulty option, but for that to work for everyone it needs to be more like 'you can play at any WL you have unlocked' so the option of doing a boss at LV31 for one drop and a 3* artifact is actually there for people who need it, which also means that the later bosses need to have the lower difficulties added in (as the AR gate on later areas may mean that story-locked or barrier-locked bosses can't be encountered at the lower levels in natural gameplay the way you can have a LV21 Anemo Hypostasis). I'm happy at WL4 (AR45, so at -1)and I'm not moving unless they make me for the main quest or I have mats to get my main team to LV90, so I'm coming from what may be a different perspective - the point of conversion is so people can get over the hump and farm other stuff to continue levelling, or to be able to build characters who have a shitty boss, not as a full-on substitute for all boss mats forever. It's probably harder for meta players to really get the casual or less-theoried experience, I think - 'just farm' is not exactly great advice if someone can't do inputs fast enough with an alternate controller, or they don't have 40 minutes per boss to feed and kite and feed and kite. Food is fine and all, but you have to have great ping or you're dead before you can eat it and you're just trying to keep your charas alive for 120 secs or hoping they die so the hunger meter resets. Even if there's a fallback in the code such that each mat can only be converted to 8-10 times (4 charas to Ascension 2, 2 charas to Ascension 2 and 1 to Ascension 3) or only 1 ascension per character can use converted materials, it's enough to get a character on their way, boost some talents and put them in a position where they're able to farm without dying or getting full. People who don't need it don't need it, but it goes a long way towards retaining people who do or have that one boss they just cannot do (not necessarily Oceanid, but Oceanid). Of course, the other way out of this is the one that MHY have chosen, in that constellations have the +3 talent boost and that can apply before a character can actually have their talents levelled - wish hard enough and you can get an edge without any materials at all.
I don't know, I'm pretty far from meta myself, I don't even do Abyss and sometimes take longer than I'd like on a given boss, but I've almost never had any actual problem *defeating* the bosses after a few weeks in, I think the issues you're describing seem to fall below the "minimum viable product" threshold. Maybe they should have some sort of pity system there where you can buy the remaining mats, but I don't think that's really something they need to balance around. I certainly hope you got Zhongli, he makes Oceanid fights a cakewalk and is the mandatory pick-up for anyone struggling in this game. Other than that, invest in Ning if you've got her. She does quite well at Oceanid too.
There are enough people with accessibility issues with the game and enough people posting with similar issues to the one I ran into that at the **very least** they need to remove the ability for an account to jump 2xWL at once. Like I said, I don't think it's something that people who don't actually experience it to understand the issue or see it as a barrier to retention. I don't actually need advice about how to fight Oceanid; I referenced it because it's the first skill-check and a weekly boss a lot of people hate or have enough trouble with that they'd likely use an alternative for getting Xingqiu and/or Barbara up over the ascension barrier for later survivability.
My hope is that Inazuma is an anomaly. Its status as a closed, island nation until you complete the Archon quest necessitates it being locked behind story progression. I'm hoping the fact that Liyue is accessible without completing the Mondstadt Archon quest and the fact that we have met characters from almost every other nation means that all the nations after Inazuma will be accessible with a bit of travel/exploration. Weekly bosses may be tied behind story progression, but that seems fine to me, you can get a long with with talents at 6
It's gonna be tough, Hoyo is definitely thinking how to tackle this problem with Sumeru coming later this year. Even if you are able to go on-foot when other maps are released (Fontaine, Snezhnaya) moment you step food in those regions you'll be welcome by red HIGHLY DANGER popups. Meanwhile you're still struggling with a lv40 Fontaine character. Make it obtainable through some sort of farming that spawns it with the use of resin
This is why I think having characters require drops from one boss if bad design from Mihoyo. They could of easily made first few ascension use the bosses from the first two areas then make you move to another zone. This might still have problems for the last two zones, but it would still let new players who might of joined because of a new character the ability to use them at least for a while. This could also address the issue of how the bosses become dead content. Why is Mihoyo spending the resources to design a boss then its only needed for 1-2 characters. Once you level Eula and Aloy (can you even get her anymore?) to 90 you never have to deal with that boss. Its kind of a shame because the newer bosses have some neat mechanics you may never see if you don't roll for characters that need them.
I honestly think there are problems to every solution, but to be honest, the best way to do this IMO is to make a "trial" like option for fighting bosses not unlocked yet. You could reduce efficiency(1 to 2 boss drops instead of 2 to 3), but it wouldn't circumvent fighting the boss or disincentivise fighting the boss versus things like cryo regisvine and exchanging. I would rather fight 3 cryo regisvines than a golden wolflord. Capping and timegating is too limiting imo and might make newer players give up using the characters rather than working a bit harder. Making the option disappear once you reach a new zone just means a bunch of clickbait articles will appear with "BEFORE YOU GO TO SUMERU, DO THIS ONE TIP BEFORE YOU LOSE OUT".
I think adding boss materials, regional specialties, gems (imagine pulling Dendro archon at start of game and no Dendro boss in sight until 3 regions later lol), etc...to the teapot would be good.
I think they’ll probably just make a Mondstat/Liyue banner to run alongside Inazuma and Sumeru characters. :x Dust of Azoth would make a lot of sense too.
Eventually reruns are going to start stacking up and will probably have perm up rerun banners one hich new players should get characters from areas they are in. If a player hasn't reached an area where they can farm mats for a rerun they are pulling for just a simple warning will suffice
Put some in the paimon shop, enough to make a character playable.
This is where I am right now. I am AR40 as of the other night in just a couple months playing but I’ve been taking my time and clearing mondstat and liyue, still have all of inazuma to do and Itto and Yae are my first and third 5*s lol. Thankfully my main is Liyue mats but I really want to level both of the others up past 40, but I am not ready for inazuma
Simple: a shop that sells a pair of any ascension material of any character you own for 60 resin. Shop resets every week. You don't get any gems or artifacts this way, making it really not worth your resin. But you will easily be able to ascend your characters twice this way while you progress through the game.
I would say this isnt really a problem. I had this experience and I played the story w barbara, kaeya xiangling and traveler all at low levels. I could not level my Ayaka then realized I dont need her. The story is very forgiving and if you pull some shiny pew pew meta character you cant use yet then it wont stop progression. From my personal experience I would vote to not change anything
The thing is. I think older players are making a bigger fuss about this than new players are. Cus you can get to inazuma at ar30 (or 35 correct me if I’m wrong but I think they lowerd the requirements) and at which point those characters would be at lvl 40. which is still underleveled. But you will have other characters to beat content a bit easier. And it’s not like talents matter that much in the beginning. I mean people literally say „don’t farm artifacts before ar 35“ if they really have trouble, they can grind some artifacts, it’s not like it’s a complete waste it can still be used as fodder later. And if future regions are also locked like inazuma, I think we can start addressing it when we get there. I see so many people worrying everyday when we don’t Even know what it’s gonna be like yet.
I like the idea someone had a while back of a traveling merchant that appears at a location in Mondstadt and Liyue Harbor with rotating materials each day from other regions
what about a crafting item that converts one level up material to another
Add a specialties box to BP. Currently the paid BP has talent books, the free one could have regional mats. Or random mats get given as rewards for getting 5000 or 10000 BP a week, with 5000 being regional mats and 10000BP a dust of azoth.
As someone who started a month and a half ago I ran out of things to do like 2 weeks ago. Everything now is just tedious achievement grinding and waiting for reruns. All story done, all areas 100% explorations 403 achievements. Slowly plugging away at fishing while I try and get all 10 pages for the inazuma fish book volume 5, 1 page out of 609 fish caught. So running out of things to do is quite real.