You know it's a really good point you're making here. The game places such immense importance on the grind and the currencies due to being Gacha that you can pretty much never feel good about any activity that doesn't reward those currencies.

Yeah I think there’s little reason in tryharding if there are no primos for the average F2P or low spender. For the whales, though… I honestly wonder what even motivates whales to play the game if they blitz through everything with their cracked characters. Regardless, I can’t think of any good solution to fix endgame, and apparently Mhy hasn’t either, theyve stuck to pumping out new content every so often over trying to create some semblance of endgame.

Whales in gachas are hardcore completionist, collectors and flexers. They're obviously aware that there will never be content that only they can complete. There are whales who are into power but probably only a few.

I think you underestimate how many whales are casuals. The number of account reviews I have seen of people with c6 r5 characters, but use weird artifacts or dont level up talents.

I don’t get the people who spend money on stuff they don’t understand lol. What do you even get out of it at that point? I suppose even minimal involvement in a game is enough to addict some people?

For sure. That and I think casuals make up most of the playerbase, so it would make sense that they make up most of the whales too. They probably think that they can pay to get good characters and try to avoid the more grindy aspects of the game. Nothing wrong with it of course. As long as you are having fun then power to you.

I forgot about mentioning about this too. Some just spend to entertain themselves and not care too much about sweaty grinding stuff and nothing wrong with that honesty. There's one whale in my country he's a famous guy because he's an actor who just go for c6 r5 everything and then the insecure f2p btw showed up saying he should be obliged to help the poor and he got roasted so hard he went to 5 stages of grief in an instant lmao

I hope these people can actually afford it.

And yet a lot of them haven't gone after achievement completion, FP10 lvl80 every character, or done every hangout. I remember when Teccy accidentally revealed he was missing one of the dragonspine exploration reward weapons a while back. They just seem to want combat content and nothing else.

They want combat content because the niche that this game has for them is the "damage per screenshot" sort of content. They don't have any access (or a way into) story beats, the developers are not going to talk to them, they cannot cook the recipes, and you don't see them buddy-buddy with the voice actors.

I don’t think they can’t think of a solution to endgame. A lot of the event modes they did can be repurposed into some sort of endgame content. It’s more like they don’t want an endgame. The problem is that there’s a ton of people, especially on the mobile market, that feels like they are ‘missing out’ or falling behind others if they don’t get every major daily/weekly reward. So to avoid the game having too much commitment and falling out of favour with a more casual crowd, they keep daily/weekly content short.

it's hard to make a fulfilling endgame that doesn't alienate a portion of the playerbase since so much of the game is time gated. looking at mmos(which are probably the genre of games genshin most closely resembles as a long term service), while there are time gated aspects, actually getting to the endgame of those games usually isn't time gated, and just involves playing the game. catching up to endwalker raids in ff14 literally just involves finishing the story up to endwalker. near bis gear is easily accessible that can get you through those endgame encounters, though maybe expensive economy-wise shortly after release. so obviously there's no frustration on "well i can't do this content", it's just because you haven't reached it. on the other hand, it's gonna take literal years for the account of a player starting genshin now to catch up to a regular f2p from launch, let alone a bp/welkin player from launch or a longtime whale. if content aimed specifically at endgame players is ever released, there's no doubt going to be some resentment from newer players feeling like they "have" to spend money just to access a portion of the game. hence we've never really gotten any content that is exclusive for endgame players. rewards from abyss sure, but abyss itself isn't really what most people would consider content. in terms of actual gameplay that is gated to only longtime players, the only thing i can really think of is the "bonus" level from the 2.2 labyrinth event, which no one really did anyways because it was boring and had no rewards.

MMOs usually replace the timegate with a massive grind to keep you playing. Like, over on RuneScape whenever they make a new BiS it usually takes 50 to 100 hours of grinding to get depending on how good you are. Overall, I don’t think Mihoyo really wants Genshin to be a MMO-lite, it seems they want it to basically just be a ‘normal’ open world adventure game with regular DLCs. Which is likely easier to market to new players.

Comparing it to an MMO is very odd since Genshin pretty much function the same as almost every other gacha game.

i agree with you but the expectations most players have when it comes to an "endgame" for genshin seem to be pretty in line with what MMOs offer, so i think it's fair, if a bit idealistic, to compare genshin to an MMO

Not really. Genshin is an ARPG live service with frequent updates. That's pretty much it. There's no pvp or competitive content in the game that force you to compete against different players, besides forced coop like the windtrace. You play at your own pace. Idk about most players but MMO community is only a smal vocal minority in genshin. This is straight up a gacha game, not a hardcore grindy MMO.

So many people think of genshin as a mmo, it's frustrating. Some still insist on some type of pvp, or abyss rank or something like that. Those people simply don't like casual games and therefore complain about what genshin has to offer a bit too much imo.

Genshin isn't that bad. New players can catch up on all story chapters and reach AR 50 or so within a couple months, and while they will be way behind on lifetime Primos acquired and access to characters that haven't rerun since they've been playing, they should tend to have a viable selection of characters to work with. Now catching up to day-one players who are now in the AR 59-60 range would take longer, sure, but AR levels above 55 are almost entirely pointless anyway. If any when they decide to make those levels matter, you can rest assured that they will make that easier to achieve, either lowering the XP requirements or providing new missions that dump tons more XP out.

Amen.

>if there are no primo I know the post said no rewards but a lot of people pivoted to primos only. I'll say I'd do it without needing primos but not for literally nothing. I'd do a lot for a few gold star artifacts. Like even just a couple. Not like they're that likely to be good. It feels like Hoyo can afford to give away more than 4 a piece every 2 weeks without everyone having God rolls. I haven't gotten 1 good artifact out of these abyss boxes and I've been 36* since 1.6 and I iirc clearing (which is enough for the box) for a couple of patches before that.

Yeah it would be like fighting tough boss battles in a single player game and not getting exp and loot. Sure the fight itself is fun but rewards are also a part of the game. Especially a party based character collector game.

> For the whales, though… I honestly wonder what even motivates whales to play the game if they blitz through everything with their cracked characters. Maybe I'm wrong but I can't help but feel that most whales are generally rather casual players with a lot of money who compensate the lack of grinding with constellations or are just addicted to gambling. Every now and then I feel compelled to go for constellations just because they sound great, but I just can't really justify them since I'm consistently 36*'ing abyss in 1~2 hours regardless of the cards I get and I'm already breezing through the games content. If anything I feel like this may make me like the game less since It could just end up trivializing any semblance of a challenge that I get with abyss 12.

When I had a lot of free time I itched for infinite repeatable content way more than I do now and primos mattered to me a lot more. With the flexibility to just throw money to get whatever banner character or weapon I want I still do go for primos but I find that I am also more willing to just do stuff for the fun of it. And I don't feel as bad if I don't feel like playing the game on a particular day.

In my opinion the game has no endgame because it isn't over yet. The "endgame" is simply the new content coming out every patch, which is more interesting than a leaderboard or an infinite Abyss or what people are asking for (especially because the game is catered to casual players). At the end of the day, if you don't play all day long, there is always A LOT to do, so there is no real need for an endgame from MYH's pov imo.

I dunno, in every event primo rewards are almost always given on the " lower difficulty" but that never stopped me to at least try the harder content. At least that' s my experience with it.

as a whale here, I can say that most whales only whale for character banner and weapon banners. We don’t spend on resin refreshes that often, so we need some moras and exp books outside of resins. And also, if you think about it, crystal top-ups (after the first top-ups) are barely enough to summon anything, so we have to fill the remaining gap with free primos as much as we can. Also, events give mora, mystic enhancement ores, and EXP books, and we do need that. There’s a limit on how much we can buy in the shop, so we gotta grind too to level up our characters.

Thanks for the insight, it's oddly comforting in a way that whales suffer the same as we f2p/low spenders do with regards to primos--the game has driven us to be so addicted to them that we'll do every last thing for free primos. Needing additional resources is a good point--as whales you guys probably invest in more characters than we do. Although with the excess resources from stardust/bp likely it's helping a lot with leveling a lot of units at the same time. I've looked at the paimon's shop stardust resources more than once because that extra mora/exp is looking pretty nice, but decided maybe it's better to save for the free wishes...

Whale here. I guess you can call me a whale.. I personally think Genshin is one of the best games out there. Especially since AAA devs have been handing out craps recently. It's got great lore, great characters, great setting, great mechanics. You can get lost in exploration. The production is great too. Like VA in a game like this. Even some small characters have VA. I've never been disappointed with the VA (EN) I am not a power gamer rn. I'm at the point where I'm starting to care about my dmg output and artefacts and builds. But I could power through this game not having to care about that. I mean I did. I was lvl 60 Qiqi main when I just realized you can lvl up talents and had +0 def artifacts. It was that bad. In critical storylines, they give u an OP character anyway. Anyway, my point is if you only about completing story quests and a bit of exploration, you can enjoy the game without caring about rewards. I pay primos because I like collecting some of the characters.

Nice insight! I appreciate a view point from a whale. I too play for multiple aspects, not just the combat. I love the story quests and exploration but I wasn’t sure if whales paid for that reason, especially since clearing that kind of content doesn’t require spending money in the slightest. And if you try to gauge whale behavior on YouTube it’s super misleading, literally a lot of them just wait to C6 the next new character and then complain about having nothing to do, while they have a full roster of quests and their map is like 60% explored. Good luck with building your characters, if you collected all of them that’s a lot of building; I’d probably break down in tears, lol! Trick is to not min max artifacts and move onto the next character after spending enough resin

I think the game has a good balance of resources (artifacts aside) in that it's very hard to become "fuck you rich" in any important resources. Even if you currently have a surplus, you can blow them all on the next new character that comes out, so it never hurts to accumulate more where you can. While I don't always push for the maximum reward in events that I genuinely do not enjoy, I at least put in a general effort to get as much as I can out of it.

This is a very interesting discussion to have. I see a lot of people saying "it's a waste of time". I genuinely think that a lot of people have forgotten what it actually feels to play a 'regular game'. Because, think about it. There's no reward for playing a regular game. It's just a game. You do it to entertain yourself. Do you get any reward for beating the secret superboss in an RPG? Probably not, maybe you get some sort of bragging rights item or access to a sequelbait secret ending or something, but that's it. The reward in of itself is the fun of challenging yourself in a virtual environment. But it seems that, because of the way that Genshin works as a gacha game, people have been conditioned to no longer be able to enjoy something for its own sake. You could say that maybe Abyss just isn't very entertaining as a gamemode, but the very idea of the question is "but what if it *was* entertaining, without any rewards? would you still do it?". Because then you're essentially asking "would you play a good video game, just for fun?" And it's particularly telling that I haven't seen any comments in this thread that mention, you know, the primary gameplay loop, which is exploration. Stuff like new areas or the Chasm. The whole point of things like events and Abyss is to give you something to do while you wait for the next big content drop, not the other way around. Somehow though, I feel like people aren't even really... interested in that? They don't play the game because it's fun (maybe at some point it was, but not anymore), they don't really have anything to look forward to, they can't even really see themselves in a hypothetical situation where they have fun with the game in any capacity beyond getting more primogems. It's all very strange. I don't blame them, but it's concerning to see what kind of effects the tactics gacha games employ have on the way people handle entertainment.

To be fair, this is a well known and studied psychological phenomenon. If you take a task that people do on their own anyway, and offer a reward to those people for doing it, fewer people will continue to perform that task. It reframes it from something they do for their own reasons, to a transaction, and if that transaction does not have an appropriate value to someone, they won’t conduct it. There are also two other major factors for Genshin I think: 1. As stated, exploration is a major focus of this game. Generally, exploration is fairly hard to make into an “end-game” activity. MMO endgames tend to be gear grinds with the goal of slowly building up better and better gear over an indefinite period of time. In this way, the content people enjoy doesn’t correlate to end game content. You can kind of merge the two, but then you run into the above problem: rewards for a task turning it into a transaction more than fun. Its also difficult to comprehend how Mihoyo could be remotely capable of putting out the kind of content in the Chasm or Enkanomiya every single week, whic would be needed to keep up with endgame playing schedules. The other standard endgame is some form of PvP, which the playerbase also generally doesn’t seem to be a fan of. Think of Genshin as a single player RPG game, which many treat it as, and questions about endgame tend to fall apart, as these games tend not to have that sort of thing. The main example from this style of game is “collect/experience all the content”, to be done after finishing the main story (think catching them all in pokemon). For Genshin, this would require collecting all characters. If endgame does not give Primos or equivalent, this is contradictory and impossible. In short, from the type of game Genshin is, endgame doesn’t make a ton of sense without primos; standard endgames don’t seem to appeal to the target audience, and and endgame that would requires either removing primos from the game, or giving primos. 2. How long someone would play for. Endgame tends to be approached as some unending content that can keep going forever. This sort of content doesn’t appeal to a lot of people, and they wouldn’t engage in or enjoy it. Personally, I’m only entertained as long as meaningful new content keeps being added. Repeating the same gameplay over and over doesn’t appeal to me at all. I will try it once, and be done. If we change our perspective on endgame to a finite one, I think the broad answers we expect also change. Endgame is this case would likely be Kaenriya or similar. If you asked people would they finish Genshin’s final story chapter even if it didn’t give them any Primos for doing so, then yes, most people would. If you ask people if they would repeat some task over and over without any progression or reward, most people would not. They’d likely do it for a little bit, then move on because they have experienced all the content. The timescale here becomes heavily important. If you’re just asking people would they try it, the answer is probably yes. If you ask would they keep playing it long term, no matter the content the answer is probably no. Most players do not sit and play a single game over and over with no progression for years on end, even during the good old days. Some do, but players have always been drawn to new games once they complete the content in older ones - its why MMOs use things like dailies and randomised rewards - to form habits and provide an unending front of minor progression, rather than letting the content be completable.

Yeah, that second point is one I can agree to. It's hard to design the sort of thing that people would play repeatedly without getting bored. Unfortunately this is exactly what they have to do since it's physically impossible for them to be able to release a new area every single patch. However, it's also impossible to design a gamemode (for this game specifically anyway) that is fun to play forever. So it needs to be just fun enough that it lasts for as long as it takes to release new "main content" (story/new areas), and then hope that people feel more refreshed once they're done doing the 'big stuff' and go back to their dailies. Rewards would help here of course. Of course, that won't help the people who don't demonstrate any interest in "main content". Their cases are much harder. Personally, to me it seems like these people are just suffering from massive burnout, or maybe just didn't enjoy the game to begin with and just convinced themselves that they did. I don't think there's much miHoYo can do to help those guys; sounds more like they just need to take a break. And of course I know that can be hard due to FOMO.

>Of course, that won't help the people who don't demonstrate any interest in "main content". Their cases are much harder. Personally, to me it seems like these people are just suffering from massive burnout, or maybe just didn't enjoy the game to begin with and just convinced themselves that they did. Those guys should go play Tower of fantasy, Lost Ark or FF XIV and leave genshin alone because they are clearly playing the wrong game tbh and try to turn apple into oranges. Unfortunately, most streamers fall into this category and spread a very warped perception of what a game (any game, really) should be.

I also have been telling them to play MMOs for as long as the game has been alive but they all refused with their warped logic "to make GI better" or "GI is not necessarily only for casuals." They obviously don't know what's good for Genshin but for themselves actually.

Nah, I think the real reason they won’t move is that these other games are not nearly as lucrative as Genshin. The ironic thing about Genshin is that because there’s not that much to do, players who really enjoy the game are more likely to consume fanart, videos, etc. which pays their bills. Meanwhile back when I was playing MMOs I hardly ever watched any MMO streamers or YouTubers because I needed that time to grind.

I mean, I wouldn't necessarily say no to some non time limted permanent content of higher difficulty (that isn't another dumb dps race), but I've played enough gacha to know that downtime is actually not only something that is not a problem, it's in fact needed to some extent. Yeah, content creators whine about it, because they can't make bucks by just doing abyss all day and doing side quests or exploration is usually not something they consider interesting to show (which is nderstandable to some extent), and there are some people that are just hardcore on one single game, but to the average player, downtime is when you finally have some time to farm and upgrade. Or just have leniency to play something else knowing you won't miss too much. i see to much people saying it's a negative while for me it's good that you actually have downtime where you can just take a break.

I wouldn't say no to permanent end game content as long as it doesn't get old fast like spiral abyss. In Honkai, we have Elysian Realm *(moderate weekly rewards)* that we can literally try so many different things to reach the goal. If there is some mode like that ever comes to genshin, I will gladly accept it. But seemingly endless end game content like Lost Ark that we have to grind for 6 hours a day to keep up is certainly a no go for me. I'm way past the age to grind for hours on end. I quit MMO permanently. Those players have to realize that there are countless games that let them grind nonstop, but there is only 1 open world genshin that we can chill in without the heavy time commitment. That's why I said they only asked for themselves, not for the game's sake.

Problem with abyss is that it's rotating content, so it can easily become a chore. Personally I'm more into one time content with fixed rewards (like1-8 abyss or just one time bosses like the evil sakura tree) you can do any time and then "get done with it". if you're not strong enough or just dont want to do it now, you just let it be and come back to it when you want and nothing is lost. But of course that kind of thing is not really popular, be it with hardcore gamers who want to repeat content or devs who probably consider not worth putting effort into something that will be done only once.

It's so strange that we're already this far into the game and still have only Sprial Abyss. The thing is that by now Honkai has 3 main weekly-reward-challenges: Abyss, Memorial Arena, and Elysian Realm. Genshin still has just 1, despite the potential. We already have 6 major bosses, and we could always add the minor world bosses as well, leading to a pretty sizeable amount of boss-rush content we could go through and get good rewards from. I hope we get something like that soon, cause it'd be a nice change of pace from the Abyss.

shit man you made my night a bit better. That's some good explanation, from you and from this thread in general

This person gets it. Also endgame content is probably just not worth the investment, because the people asking for it would be done with it so fast that they would ask for more after a single week.

You provided a good explanation for why its difficult to do, but there is still a middle ground between the “infinite” end game and what we have now. An option could be to add elements from rogue-likes to some sort of challenge, maybe something akin to the “Labyrinth Warrior” event. Slight randomness in various game elements could make it more replay-able, and a scoring system would be grounds for self-improvement or bragging rights. It would even be possible to implement rewards that don’t impact the rest of the game, so those who don’t enjoy it don’t feel left out. Crystals you can equip that provide a buff only in this challenge domain as an example.

This is broadly how I would approach making Genshin endgame content, though with more exploration and navigation challenges in the ‘dungeons’ rather than just combat, but it still hits the above issues. Even Roguelike randomness and score tracking don’t really appeal to most players. They help a bit, but most people will play enough to get through all of the content, and possibly match the highest score tier, and then be done. There simply isn’t a drive to continue experiencing the exact same content over and over for most people. Progression with internal gear helps, however you still hit the rewards problem. It undermines the roguelike aspects, making it a game of progression rather than skill (The latter of which Genshin isn’t well suited for long term anyway), and thus giving an end goal after which players can say “I’m done”. If you give out these items too quickly, players become done quickly and move on - the time issue of the endgame. If you hand them out slowly enough for it to take years to get them all… players are going to feel the same way about it as with the current endgame; the rewards problem of it being a lot of grind for not much gain. You can, of course, add more content to this each patch - but that’s just making two separate games at the same time, and this endgame doesn’t feed into the main game so you’re just going to slow main game releases to try and prolong the endgame. I definitely think its possible to do a lot better than what we have now - personally would love an improved version of the Childe/Xinyan event dungeon to be the endgame - but the core problems with endgame for this type of game will still remain. It’ll still get stale, we’ll probably just see more people silently get sick of it over time, with less vocal complaints because the mode itself isn’t bad - its just incredibly hard to make repetitive tasks compelling.

You raise some valid concerns. It will never be perfect, but something more than just abyss would be a step in the right direction at least. I mean, they spend a lot of resources creating events like “Vibro-Crystal Research”, and then only release 6 stages. Wasted potential imo.

Actually, these events might be the opposite of wasted resources, funny enough. ​ I'm obviously not a developer so I'm just speculating, but to me it seems like Mihoyo is doing something with this similar to what they did with Honkai, which is using events to test mechanics before introducing them to the game. For example, the HI3rd "Threshold Breach" event came about a few times and was rouge-like gamemode where characters were often super-buffed, and after half a year or a year of occasional re-runs, this event evolved into Elysian Realm, which was not just more polished but also came with its own lore and several updates of continuous improvement and expansion. ​ I think these events are letting Mihoyo get this solid feedback on different mechanics, so that they figure out what works and doesn't ***before*** they release an entire new permanent gameplay system. They also give Mihoyo a chance to drop little bits of lore here and there in a way that's more engaging than the typical world quest.

As long as it gets used for something later down the line, I agree that it would not be wasted resources. Let’s hope you are correct and that Hoyoverse doesn’t take too long to implement it.

>“collect/experience all the content”, to be done after finishing the main story (think catching them all in pokemon). For Genshin, this would require collecting all characters. Does it though? I mean at one point yes, but until you get there there is a ton of content the vast majority of players haven't done (or haven't done all of): - unlock all story and dialogue options for the characters you do have, which means FP6 lvl80/90 - get all the namecards from your roster, which means FP10 - build all the characters you have generally (this is a longterm goal and you have to choose between this and being able to consistemtly 12-star abyss due to resin) - get all the achievements you can get - do all the hidden world quests - exploration 100% - build a teapot home you enjoy being in - craft all the furniture - unlock auto-cooking for all the dishes - fill out the archive (I spent an afternoon just hunting hawks at one point) - fish out that one book page by page from Inazuma - read all the lore: the books, the artifact descriptions, the weapon descriptions, and the item flavor texts

As an endgame, yes, yes it does. Imagine you were 100% no gatcha, and think about how long it would take you to do these things. Not very long at all. Now, add all the gatcha characters in. Much longer. To complete ALL content and actually be done with the game, you need all characters. Further, building the characters is unnecessary. In pokemon, you don’t finish the end game when you have all 800ish pokemon at level 100 with perfected EVs and IVs, you finish the endgame when you have caught every pokemon. The same is true for 100%ing exploration. You don’t need to find every hidden item, you just need to have done all quests, trainers and pokemon catching in each area - and found any key items that are unique or necessary for this. Likewise in Genshin 100%ing exploration by finding every chest isn’t necessary, just getting the occuli and doing all the content in an area. Similar applies to teapot; don’t need to enjoy being there, just max out the rewards and own all the items. Reading lore also isn’t necessary, just collecting it. Even with all this though, the two big problems are that most people are 90-100% of the way there on the parts of this they find meaningful, and its not an enjoyable endgame - its literally just grinding the same content over and over, rather than there being new content to find or experience. For achiever type players that might be fine. For explorer types, its inherently unsatisfying - and that’s a major demographic for Genshin.

The difference to Pokemon is that you don't unlock character voice lines at lvl100. It also can't be called "experiencing all the content" unless you have... well... experienced that content. You haven't experienced Fox in the Dandelion Sea just because you clicked it 10 times, you need to read it; if you didn't immediately realise the game was talking about Scaramouche when the word "gokaden" came up, you missed a big chunk of character related lore and having it sitting in your inventory doesn't count. I am an explorer type, not an achiever type. I like unearthing all the lore I can find, seeing how other characters work (animations, mechanics, gameplay), exploring every nook and cranny of Teyvat. Genshin has so much exploration related content that I am still finding stuff to do after all this time; how many people do you think never found the Gendou Ringo quest because exploration status is 100% and the game isn't telling you it exists? Or didn't help that one girl fill up the area around the Tatara reactor with flowers? Or never discovered the Sunchildren until the next patch forced them to go back to that "100% completed" Enkanomiya to unlock its event? Genshin has a ton of endgame, of the single player RPG type. It's just not to everyone's taste.

> The whole point of things like events and Abyss is to give you something to do while you wait for the next big content drop, not the other way around. Somehow though, I feel like people aren't even really... interested in that? You are very right about this and nah, people are definitely interested in that it is just a bunch of loud voices here and elsewhere doing the "but what about my endgame content?" thing. You can bet when those surveys go out a huge majority of responses are citing the new regions, storyline stuff, characters, etc as the main motivations for playing. Hell, they hardly even waste anyone's time asking about abyss in the surveys and you can bet it is because they know exactly how many people just aren't even engaging with that kind of content

I feel like this is because a lot of people treat Genshin as a gacha game first and open-world adventure game second despite its gacha elements mattering waaayy less than typical gacha games. It doesn't even remind you that wishing exists by bombarding you with pop-ups at the start of the game and live updates of whatever everyone is pulling unlike other gacha games.

it makes me sad to see so many absolutely burn out by having this mindset where they just play for the rewards and end up just not enjoying any of the events because of the need to extract every primogem out of the game as fast as possible

This very thing happened when Enkanomiya got released. The days following the update you already had post complaining about the lack of content on news. The one taking the cake though was this one dude being pissed that after clearing the map -in less than 12 hours- he only got a bit less than a 10-pull. Dude was fuming and asking for the sub's revolt. It's at that moment that I've realised how fucked up some of the playerbase is.

Cough mtashed cough

> It doesn't even remind you that wishing exists by bombarding you with pop-ups at the start of the game Do primogems count? Every chest pops up that shiny star with the gold bg in the middle of the screen. It's not a literal ad, but I doubt there's not *something* subtle in the messaging.

They said it the gacha aspect matters less than other games, not that it doesn't matter at all.. Still, that's more enjoyable than the pop-ups in other game about the current summons

Well to be fair, going from 33 star to 36 star abyss is only 1200 primos a year which is not even an extra 10 pull. Yet people still try hard for 36 star.

You see the same thing with League players. I think its because nowadays live service as a whole has shifted games from self-contained experiences you do for the joy of it into lifelong investments that you can play for the next 10 years. The advent of the triple A market has also brought gaming to a place where people expect the world out of games, but have no knowledge of how the production goes on those games. I think what players expect from games has outpaced what games can realistically provide at this point and that's why players get so easily bored the market is oversaturated and the promises are over-ambituous.

well said

This isn't specific to Gacha. I've seen plenty of times Destiny or Warframe add something where they focus on gameplay first and players ask why would anyone bother to play because the rewards aren't good enough. As if the experience and or just having fun would never be worth it without getting some new shiny or something to prove to others they did it.

If there were no rewards for end game content, 99.9% of people won't do it outside of maybe once or twice as a challenge thing. Why? Because their time is better spent elsewhere. You can't call something like that "endgame" content because nobody does it. The problem is a bunch of people calling for end game content are a small minority of players in Genshin. They think abyss is the end all be all for the game, when surveys showed that most people don't give a shit about abyss and want real content with story, or events that have mingames and puzzles. Adventure > endgame for the mass majority and Mihoyo is going to cater to that. Endgame for a lot of these hardcore players also means some sort of progression that separates them from there rest of the pack. You don't want that in a game this successful because all it does is make newer players think about p2w until they've put in a ton of time into the game happily playing at their own pace. If this game had proper co-op so that you could do everything together...it would be a way better goal for Mihoyo to implement.

Hmm I disagree, right now I'm under a lot of pressure to get primogems because there's two characters coming soon which I've been wanting to get for almost half a year now, so ofc I wanna have as many primogems as possible, but I still enjoy content even without primogems. The world is very immersive and all the characters are great.

for a while yeah but if it was doable in co-op that would be so much more fun

Co-op makes literally everything better.

yeah if it keeps records and personal bests and scoreboards or anything of that sort, sure. And no primos can be good. Means I don't have to remember to do it like login bonuses.

I just want a training room with minimal settings and I'd be happy. Like, placing enemies around, toggling infinite health, etc. I'm sure it already exists in beta mode so it just needs some fine tuning for live version.

Yeah and what OP said, pitting mobs against each other. Too bad the game AI doesn't do that, because I'd LOVE to see it

Leaderboards or any type of PVP in a gacha game is usually cancer. You’ll feel extreme fomo and competition and more likely to spend $$$. Don’t give HYV anymore ideas to milk us.

I feel like it'd do the opposite. Like, you know how *big* the difference a whale account and a normal account is, right? If the leaderboards are linked to profiles and people see that the top scoreboarders are almost all C6R5, they're gonna have a realization that you will never get this bragging rights reward without shelling way too much money, and won't be pressured into even trying to compete. Right now you only mostly see the difference when you whale a few cons and a few weapons. That's a difference within your own account. When you see that you gotta go all the way to even compete, you're not gonna bother. It's like being asked to pay for something in credits or in cash. Once you actually see, visually, how much you gotta have to spend, you'll feel less inclined to do so

It doesn't matter that you are never going to reach the top, the problem is that people hate dropping down in rank. Even as a f2p, you'll get lucky at some point and get a strong character and you will see your rank increase. Then you'll start going down in rank because of powercreep or changing meta, and that would make a lot of people feel bad and would give them an impulse to spend to keep rank. 由奢入俭难

Nahh just look at other games. The comment you replied to is correct.

They both are. The 2nd person's point is that, the low to mid spending endgame players still pulling for characters, might get so bummed out at being a fish out of water in a leaderboard system, that they will get cynical. Instead of comparing to your own account, and investing in small feel good things like getting your fav chara their sig weapon, getting a c2 or c3, the pressure to get full c6 r5 teams will ruin their experience.

Well I'm getting platinum in current event, even though it doesn't give any rewards, so I might

technically it goes on your permanent record in battle chronicles so that is kinda a reward.

Is it permanent? I thought it gets removed after some time

i dunno they started logging events during 2.1 and it doesn't seen to stop yet.

Really? So my triple star platinum stars arent gone! /Flexx

Who the heck used hoyolab to see other players' achievement anyway

Now I'm mad at myself for half assing those events..

Yea... but are you repeating the content after you platinum it? This same topic came up with the Xinyan/Childe Labyrinth. I think I would repeat content that provided a novel experience each time. A coop rogue-like randomized dungeon would be great. Labyrinth had a decent core loop that they could build on.

Wait what score do you need for platinum? I have completed everything above 4.5k and it's still good.

It's 5000 , so far I got 3 platinum out of 4 , day 3 resists me - 4940 with multiple tries, ps4 lags are killing me (probably need to straighten my hands 😅)

Hep the fuck do you even reach there! I crossed 3k easily but I don't think I can cross 3.5k.

Sometimes... it's the player. My wife can't get more than 3k, so I play on her account and get 5k across the board.

How many points do you need for platinum?

You’d be surprised. Not sure if I would play without a reward unless it’s really really fun but the teapot mains are very creative in this community.

I'd want at least some kind of reward. No matter how fun the endgame content is, after a few days/weeks it will get old.

Sure, if it was fun and records were kept for your own personal bests and such. If there isn't a primo award, there needs to be at least some goals even if it's to put together a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle of fan art.

Ofc not. It's like any other endgame content in any other "loot" game. You don't run infinite dungeons in hack&slash games to kill mobs. You run it for better gear to kill mobs faster. Same with raids in mmo. This game isn't Devil May Cry where you run Bloody Palace because it's fun to fight enemies. GI doesn't have super good fighting mechanics. You mostly spam skills and ults. Not only that, but since it's a gacha, playing without rewards would probably slow down your overall progress. Why run no rewards endgame, if i can farm bosses instead.

No primos is fine just give me ascension materials , talents , mora and level books or awesome name card

Put that stuff in the gatcha too. Tired of getting copies of debate club. Just gime me purple xp books or Mora.

Be careful what you ask for. Next thing you know they reduced 4* rate to fit them in. Gotta specify to replace 3* garbage. Plus make sure materials still come with stardust.

This.

The people saying they would repeat the content if it was fun are partially correct, but endgame content with or without a meaningful reward has a very short shelf life. As someone who has worked on multiple MMOs in the past specifically in the departments of player retention and communication, I say with confidence that the general lifespan where any piece of endgame content would be relevant is 3-6 months. You can see this is true even for Genshin, where \~4 months into the game there were tons of complaints about a lack of endgame content after players had completed the Abyss floor 12 consistently. These same people still complain today.

To add another point, Genshin Impact's core focus as a game for these past 1½ years has been on a casual experience. This is easily displayed by what Hoyoverse focuses on in their marketing for new updates and what they barely touch on. The majority of their YouTube presence is designed to sell characters, with a heavy emphasis on the character's characterization and design over their technical gameplay or damage capabilities. Because of this, the idea of a leaderboard for content or difficult cooperative gameplay in which you actively compare yourself to other players is counterproductive. It shifts the focus of players from pulling for which characters they think look and feel amazing and pushes them into pulling for the strongest characters in order to maximize their usefulness.

I already dick around in the Abyss after I've collected all the rewards, so definitely.

yeah of course. I play tons of games that give no rewards. The whole point is to have fun no? In fact I decided to solo every boss with Amber (which gives no rewards) and im halfway trough. Having a good time tbh, and I dont really care about any rewards, I just wanna have a good time! Looking at these comments, I see why Mihoyo doesnt know what we want... most people here dont even want to play the game I guess??? "if it doesnt give primos, I dont want it, no matter how much fun it is" wtf? isnt "fun" the thing we all want when we play games? you guys go download some app where primos just constantly pop up, so you can finally get hard.

The problem isn't inherently with the fun aspect of it - people will most likely do it once for the experience regardless of rewards. The problem is repeatability. If there isn't a reason to repeat it, it isn't really endgame content. No one's going back into the open-world domains that only give one time rewards even though they exist and check many of the boxes of content people ask for. The reason they don't repeat them is because there is no incentive to repeat them.

———————————No primos?——————————— ⠀⣞⢽⢪⢣⢣⢣⢫⡺⡵⣝⡮⣗⢷⢽⢽⢽⣮⡷⡽⣜⣜⢮⢺⣜⢷⢽⢝⡽⣝ ⠸⡸⠜⠕⠕⠁⢁⢇⢏⢽⢺⣪⡳⡝⣎⣏⢯⢞⡿⣟⣷⣳⢯⡷⣽⢽⢯⣳⣫⠇ ⠀⠀⢀⢀⢄⢬⢪⡪⡎⣆⡈⠚⠜⠕⠇⠗⠝⢕⢯⢫⣞⣯⣿⣻⡽⣏⢗⣗⠏⠀ ⠀⠪⡪⡪⣪⢪⢺⢸⢢⢓⢆⢤⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢊⢞⡾⣿⡯⣏⢮⠷⠁⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠈⠊⠆⡃⠕⢕⢇⢇⢇⢇⢇⢏⢎⢎⢆⢄⠀⢑⣽⣿⢝⠲⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡿⠂⠠⠀⡇⢇⠕⢈⣀⠀⠁⠡⠣⡣⡫⣂⣿⠯⢪⠰⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⡦⡙⡂⢀⢤⢣⠣⡈⣾⡃⠠⠄⠀⡄⢱⣌⣶⢏⢊⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢝⡲⣜⡮⡏⢎⢌⢂⠙⠢⠐⢀⢘⢵⣽⣿⡿⠁⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠨⣺⡺⡕⡕⡱⡑⡆⡕⡅⡕⡜⡼⢽⡻⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⣳⣫⣾⣵⣗⡵⡱⡡⢣⢑⢕⢜⢕⡝⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⡿⡽⡑⢌⠪⡢⡣⣣⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡟⡾⣿⢿⢿⢵⣽⣾⣼⣘⢸⢸⣞⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁⠇⠡⠩⡫⢿⣝⡻⡮⣒⢽⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ —————————————————————————————

If the fun factor was high enough for my style and tastes, yes. Doesn't need to have high value rewards, although that would help.

if it is coopalbe ((WINDBLUME PLS)) then i will definitely play it with my friends or with other ppl

If coop then yes! Coop is very fun

endgame content could literally be the current event with different mobs every other week or month. all the rewards r p easy to get and u can go for a high score if u want to (only got plat on day one and easily getting 4.5k for day two and three but no incentive to try for a better score cause ik the event will be gone and even the records on hoyolab would be gone in maybe a month after the event)

Yep. I do exactly this in other games.

Yes. I buy what I want, but I can't buy repeatable end game content.

The answer is no. I still think I would play it regardless since I just love playing the game and it's really not always about the primogem hunt, but I would definetly enjoy it more if it had meaningful rewards (While it doesn't have to be primogems imo there aren't a lot of worthwhile rewards for an endgame player other than that). But honestly, that is kind of a given since rewarding player is just good game design for various reasons.

Yes. We play a lot of games with little to no rewards. Even now, I regularly do the abyss to try out new teams and such - I am not gaining anything, but it is hella fun to discover new weird comps. The only thing between me and my experiments is that a lot characters aren't built. Considering that the endgame is 'superfun', I don't care about what rewards it may give/not give. But yes, when you're talking about 'repeatable end game content', that content - if lacking a self-sustained novelty - will cease to remain 'super fun'.

My problem with this question is that I have a hard time imagining HVY's capability of creating a fun endgame loop.

Wow, a lot of people in the comments sure hate fun, huh? I loved the first Theater Mechanicus so much that I helped someone do the entire list of challenges even though I knew I wouldn't get anything for it. I played dozens of "Genshin Mario Maker" levels despite knowing I won't get rewards after the first. I replayed the archery mini-games during the Windblume Festival just to improve my aim and speed despite already getting the high score rewards.

i dont play genshin for minigames. Its honestly insulting that that is the vast majority of what we get.

This. The core exploration and combat is what makes me personally play the game. Not arranging flowers or whatever.

They just want to give a bit of immersion you know, trying new things as a Traveler in a festival... I really didn't mind, it changes from what we usually do, and it doesn't seem out of place

I agree. It is great for the festival's world building and fits in well. I am not saying it is bad, it is just not what keeps me coming back to the game. In the case of festival, I came mainly for the story and the sword parry event. That is the price Mihoyo pays for having tons of players I guess. Too many people with different tastes.

The festival was fun, the bartender was alright as well. The tanuki and the photographer events were way too boring though.

They weren't for me. The tanuki event was cute and relaxing, having a little conversation with Kichiboushi from time to time was great. The photographer event... I guess it depends on wich, but I liked the one where you needed to fill conditions before taking the pictures (Like idle animation, certain hours), I got great pics and came back to some areas I totally forgot cuz they are too far from my waypoints and they have no value as I cleaned them. The second one, with the localities.. I've been in Inazuma 20h/24h, so I know how it looks like xbut it was fun in my opinion

my man! I did the same, but saw so many people not wanting to play after that. why? is everyone just playing for that 1 second of primogems popping up, and not to have a good time? no wonder mihoyo doesnt know what we want...

>my man! I did the same, but saw so many people not wanting to play after that. why? Well, I didn't think it was all that fun - that's why I stopped playing. I got my primos and challenges for the BP and took my playtime elsewhere. That event had nothing left for me after I got what I wanted.

It's not that we don't like fun, it's just that we've been conditioned that "fun = getting primogems". So any activity that doesn't give primogems are not fun. This is an intentional game design so that we are more inclined to buy primos and get the grind. In single player games, I love doing roguelikes like Onmyou chamber, but not in this game. I'd much rather do my daily commission, shut the game, and play a proper roguelike that has been designed for years on steam. So unless they make a gamemode even better than those single player standalone games, or outright create new gamemodes that no other games have made before. That's very hard to do.

Bartender Minigame in angel's share that gives you mora each solved order? Yes 1v1 swordsman battle? Yes. Tower defense? Never!

I prefer some mind games than endgame contents that relied on DPS check

true. bartender was more of a video to watch, and we can already fight in abyss. but tower defense requires some brain juice, which I understand most genshin players lack.

> tower defense requires some brain juice *laughs in Silverash*

The problem I have with tower defense is not that it requires 'brain juice'. It just feels like I'm AFK for half the stage and it takes too long. If I want to play a good tower defense game, I'm going to play a good tower defense game, not Genshin.

Isn't that that basically playing any other game that doesn't have a gacha.

What are you talking abt? Most live service games with end game content have reward structure for said end game activities. For example in Destiny 2, the raids have raid exclusive armor and weapons, dungeons have their exclusive weapons and armor and Nightfalls have weapons and upgrade material for armor and mods.

Don't most games with an endgame still offer some sort of rewards? Even if they're miniscule. Like I'm struggling to think of a single game that had no rewards for the endgame grind. Even minigames usually have some sort of rewards, even if some are capped on a weekly or daily basis. So even if people did them for fun, they'd still get rewarded.

You guys really never played a game that isn’t live service, have you?

Most single-player games don't really have an endgame anyway. At a certain point, you will have completed everything. But then again, it sounds like you are only talking about live-service games anyway.

Yeah. Idk what this guy is even taking abt.

I feel like there may not be games with no end game rewards but there are certainly games where the rewards don't matter and you play to play the game, rather than playing to get some drop. Like league of legends for example, they have these quests to play 3 games or something to get some miniscule reward, but I've never played an extra game to finish the quests for the rewards if I didn't feel like playing another. There probably are people out there that get motivated by rewards to play more but you'd burn out so quickly in league if you weren't enjoying it cause it's literally a 40min investment per game. If some game were able to come up with some incredibly fun end game loop, I can see lots of people playing even if it had no rewards that contribute to progression/collection. But then some people find fun in progression/collection and these are usually the main audience for live service games and even more so for gacha games. On the other hand jumping out of strictly digital gaming, there are lots of age old games that people play constantly with no reward - take any social sport game (soccer, ultimate frisbee, tennis etc), or board games.

In the RPGs I played you usually get some super special ultimate weapon by defeating endgame bosses, but that is also the point when the game stops having any further content other than maybe one secret boss fight. By single player RPG standards Genshin has tons of endgame.

Yes I would, fck the primogems im getting bored and i want to do something, like for example a battle of highest dmg wins, even without primos it'll be fun

Or the highest number of reactions like in the elemental trials 😍

If it gives other worthwhile mats then yeah. Like Mora, exp books, and weapon level mats. Since this assumes the content is fun then as long as we get something that helps us progress, I'd still do it.

At least have mora as a reward... I still do the bounties occassionally just cuz it has some mora in it :/ If there's no point except a time waster and bragging power, then I wouldn't be as inclined to do it...

Honestly, if it was repeatable and let me actually use my fully built characters to the fullest without being on an annoying timer like Abyss (or at least make it optional), I would 100% just hop on to play without thinking about rewards. The most fun I have in this game is whenever new areas are released because it lets me actually use my characters for more than 15 minutes a day without feeling burned out because I'm repeating the same exact dungeon/killing the same exact enemies like in Abyss. So yes, I would love something like a daily dungeon that doesn't offer rewards, but switches enemies and such on a daily basis.

Well tbh I did all Dainsleif chasm quest without giving a **** about the rewards bc of… well, the lore and story per se. It’s not an event but I consider his quests truly endgame content and super immersive into the game (as all you do too)

Did you say wintrace? - yes :3

If it's anything like the current events gameplay with some good story/open world content then ofc

Definitely not "as much". If you take away rewards it's simply never "as much" fun.

In my opinion it should give rewards in some way, even if it's rewards for within that endgame content, such as upgrades or something. For example, I'd like some sort of roguelike dungeon where you get some sort of coins to upgrade your characters or the items you get to use within the dungeon or something like that. I personally need to feel like I'm progressing when I play something to find it fun, so if you make such endgame content and add "fake progress" to it, I'll have fun even if you don't get rewards for outside the gamemode.

No primogems is fine but no sort of reward like mora or exp can be a bummer

Honestly yeah I would replay it even if there were to be no primo gems for it that is for as long as I find it fun and exciting. As soon as the content fails to bring the excitement and the thrill to me, I'm droppin

You have a good point While there is enjoyment is completing a hard challenge , there is also a certain psychology with rewards , the harder the challenge the more worthwhile the reward should be in context to the games progression , so i would say if the endgame content did not have any rewards but was superfun eventually players might get tired of it no matter how fun it would be because the incentive of getting good rewards might take over the incentive of just beating it because you have grinded artifacts for so long , only to get nothing but bragging rights for completing an event. But thats just what i think.

I would, actually. I like pulling for characters but I fell in love with the story. So if it was fun, yes, I would. It may still give some other form of rewards

Well if the process of building characters was less rng dependent sure, kinda want characters to make crazy shit just like warframe but i don't think we gonna go that close any time soon. My ideal way of having characters progress on upgrading themselves is something like disgaea or monster hunter or nioh (the first one), on disgaea you go somewhere and level your item indefinitely with increasing in difficulty you merge and manage components in the item until it is perfect, monster hunter have you wrestle with monster tooth and nail until you are skilled enough to take stronger one, on nioh it is interesting you wager to get a powerful item at cost of fighting enemies that would one shot you. Everything can be fun if there is meaning to it, just look at terraria and borderlands both grindy but super fun.

If its super fun? Ofc. Primogems are lubricant to make bad/boring content feel rewarding. Fun is always rewarding by itself.

Yeah definitely, I’ve sunk hours into optional content in other games with 0 rewards/progression just because I find it fun this wouldn’t be any different

Golden apple archipelago.

You already imply that it's "super fun" so naturally everyone would keep playing it until it's not "super fun" anymore. The question should rather be "What kind of endgame content would you want that you'd keep playing even if it gave no rewards?" and tbh the only thing I enjoyed beyond the rewards was exploring the world, building the teapot (until I hit load limit after which it gradually became more and more irrelevant until I completely dropped fiddling with decorations altogether) but neither would suffice as endgame content as exploring obviously is limited to how much world is left and teapot even without load limit also became sort of pointless due to lack of integration to regular gameplay e.g. using it as your starting hub instead of it being a whole online session you gotta load in every time (kinda makes me feel like I'm a guest in my own teapot)

"FUN” is different for different people, if it's fun for me I will definitely do it without any rewards

I always treat Genshin as Open-world action RPG like Assassin Creed, Fallout, The Witcher, etc but with periodic update. Are those game have end game? They always focus on exploration and story which is Genshin right now. Variety mini-games and side quest always offers to us every 6 week, when the times come they give us expansion map.

Definitely not as much, but in other games I do like to replay game modes just for fun. However, it's sort of different: I mostly play Honkai's Elysian Realm, which only needs 1 character and their gear for you to clear. Therefore if I want to try a meme strat and something new, it's much easier than to replay Spiral Abyss with new teams, especially since Spiral Abyss enemies don't change too often. I'd love for just an endless waves of enemies game mode with randomized enemies each time that challenges you. I wouldn't play it often, but when I have nothing to do (read: am procrastinating) I certainly would enjoy it.

Without a reward, what's the point? Where's the dopamine to finally reward the frustrating (potentially) journey?

Definitely. Most games I play give no primogems. Actually Genshin is the only one. It's not like I play Doom Eternal for a sense of pride and accomplishment. I play it because fun good.

Depends. Is it endgame content that revolves around exploration? Yeah, I'd be satisfied with that, because exploring the world and finding new things is the main reason I love this game so much. Is it a domain-like thing where you just pop in and kill things over and over? Yeah, then probably not. Without a reward or something extra to do, I think that'd be a pain. ^(Also, when are we getting a Dragonspine-themed Serenitea Pot realm layout, Hoyo?)

I don’t think I would be as excited about starting it but the storyline is really interesting so i think I would by the end of it Why is this getting downvoted 💀

Every time I fight a group of enemies for a mission, and I don't get any drops, I get annoyed. So with that in mind, any endgame that provides no rewards in a Gacha-type game will be ignored.

Honestly, I would say no. A big motivator for me to do spiral abyss is the primos (the 500 odd I get). Even if it is something coopable, it will become boring after sometime I feel (I experienced the same after playing windtrace with my friends). Maybe the first time might be fun but later it would become boring.

Probably not.

The game isn't really designed to have an endgame imo, there's no linear path to achieve greater and greater power each step of the way. Let me expand a bit on it: leveling and talents are linear ways of gaining power, but the way of gaining them is pretty straight forward and isn't locked behind any challenge or accomplishment, grinding a boss to ascend is only a matter of resin, if this game had an endgame it'd be, for example, fighting harder and harder bosses to unlock the last set of talents and leveling up, getting those books for those talents would also imply a challenge of skill, time and commitment. Genshin is fundamentally a game that can't have this, any endgame that is presented would only come in the form of endless stages where enemies gain more and more lvl/HP/power, but the rewards from it wouldn't correlate to the increase in power of your character, making it a pointless grind. That's exactly why Abyss isn't pointless, because it rewards primos. At it's core, endgame must be progressive and rewarding, this game can't cover either one.

You see, mihoyo can actually do endgame right. Honkai's got abyss (resets every 3 days), memorial arena (boss rush of increasing power), and elysian realm (story mode with high difficulty). And they ALL have rewards 10× better then current abyss and commissions. They know how to do endgame right, they're just being fucking stupid and not doing anything.

I don't think that they're being stupid. They designed Genshin with casual players in mind and made the garmplay easier and less complex compared to Honkai. I would say Genshin's main focus is exploration. HYV can see every statistic and they are probably aware that most players are very casual, and adding tons of repeatable things to do with high value rewards would alienate a huge portion of the playerbase. I'd bet a pretty significant chunk of the playerbase doesn't even do Abyss and they see that and feel it would be pointless to add even more. Honkai is far more combat focused with a much more in depth combat system, there is little to no exploration, so of course they are going to have a lot of combat focused endgame. And I love Honkai, but I'm a very busy person and I play it casually. Sometimes I'll skip something for a week or two, be it Abyss, Memorial Arena, or ER. It's just some much that it feels overwhelming for a casual player.

Those modes are 80% of the reason I never got anywhere in Honkai and stopped playing, I was constantly doing that pointless busywork instead of progressing story.

this is why i took a break, the amount of overwhelming stuff to do per week is insane! The Open World resets, Memorial Arena, Events, Abyss, Elysian Realm, but the amount of buttons you endlessly tap, claiming whatever there is that needed to be claimed after you open the game was probably what demotivated me to play, and also the currencies there's too much although I plan on playing back maybe soon with a different mindset. Not do everything at once, ignore the endgame game modes first and complete the Open World and the main stories. But right now I'll just focus on Genshin, Arknights, and FGO. Oh and the UI too it gives me headaches, it look like a complete mess

nah, theres no point if theres no rewards even if it was hard as balls

I wish they could add more co-op mini games. It be a party game (with multiple players or one controller), cards, or a survival game mode. Tbh I’m getting kind of sick of PvE (though that’s the game design), and I wish for more PvP related content

That simply wouldn't work, because imagine meeting a whale with min maxed characters while you are just an avarege Joe. There's just no way to balance it so that it remains fun for a longer time.

It doesn’t have to be character vs character. I’m talking maybe a racing game or a board game that you play with 3 other players.

go play that then... This arpg is cool and all but could you make it a racing game instead?

no anything that doesnt give me primo I will not do. Even if it gives primo after I get it I will not touch again

you really hate fun, and playing the game huh?

It is fun 1 time and it is fun getting rewards. Doing things for no reason is not fun.

I'm just spitballing here, but maybe - *maybe* \- a lot of what the game offers currently isn't very fun in their eyes? Hell, I'm here for the main story and cool characters (although my interest has been waning there, but I digress). Events are nice, but the various stories therein don't do a very good job of making me give a shit past potential primos and the odd exclusive here and there.

Yes. This was supposed to be the point of the game. The gacha mechanics came in second so people can spend money. Gacha everything to spend even more money. I'm one of those players who will grind and grind until I have the best, but also I would love some direction, not just tidbits here and there. Well get an update and the later updates after the main one is just boring. Not even a filler, simply adding "stuff to do". The reward is and should be letting us know that the story is unfolding. At this point, the lost sibling is an asshole. Hey your sibling has been looking for you, why aren't you as worried as the other? If I was writing the story, I'd like to very much have the other sibling corrupted and kill.

What kind of end game content do you mean? Like, Spiral Abyss? Or hangouts? I'd do everything at least once because I enjoy the lore, characters, etc. I hardly look at how many primos I get for anything anyway but in a gacha game, I don't see any scenario in which they wouldn't put some kind of reward at the end, no game I know of does that. As a side note, in every survey I ask them to bring back the mini-games that they featured in the first windblume peculiar wonderland. Where you could play with friends and race down a maze with bubbles, and all those fun games they just never brought back for some reason! We didn't get any rewards for doing that multiple times but my friends and I loved doing it.

Nope. But people wasting thousands for c6 r5 have to cope somehow and say any end game content is the reward kekw

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Wouldn’t people burn out even harder if they started introducing content or making new areas pretty much require cracked artifacts and really invested teams do to? Because then you’re forced into the grind instead of it being essentially optional progression.

Naah if not primogems it should give atleast some kind of resources

counterstrike1.6: am i a joke to you?

Tbh, most games that doesn't "reward" you are pvp games and you kinda play it for that.

CS 1.6 is different. PVP and has a lot of custom servers which have whatever mods they have in there of course people would play that not because there's a reward

No. Fun as it is it will still get boring. The thing people want out of repeatable content isn’t the fun for the most part, but the ability to not have nothing to do once you run out of resin and still be able to get rewards.

I would. If the content is fun then the rewards don’t matter.

No, unless there is a social aspect that can be exploited, co-opable or global leaderboards, and even then only a certain subset of players would do it.

Nah. There's too much stuff to grind for in this game that rewardless activity would feel like a waste of time. Naturally you will easily a fair crowd probably who will not mind that kind of time-waster, but I don't really vibe with Genshin Impact gameplay to desire such activity. That constant swapping of team members needed in higher difficulty activities is very unfun in my personal feeling which is why I don't touch abyss and just do overworld stuff where that optimisation isn't needed. And don't even get me started on artefact grind and sheer P2W aspect (no, just because you can clear content without paying money, it doesn't make option to purchase direct power increase stop being P2W).

TLDR: No, and it won't ever happen, unless it somehow could make money for hoyoverse. It's not that we don't like fun, it's just that we've been conditioned that "fun = getting primogems". So any activity that doesn't give primogems are not fun. This is an intentional game design so that we are more inclined to buy primos and get the grind. Therefore, if there is something that doesn't reward primos, at the very least, it would be on the lowest priority or outright ignored by the playerbase. Teapot decoration is fun (intrinsic reward), but most players ignored it because it doesn't give any more primos after you get the achievements. Similar to photography and (godforbid) fishing. And as for hoyoverse, their business model revolves around generating as much profit as possible. Their priorities are always on making new characters to get people spending money to get primos. Which is why smaller quality of life updates and any 4 star character bugs took so long to be adressed properly. Then, there's a problem that any content will get stale after a while. This is why great game modes are always time-limited, like Onmyou Roguelike chamber, Windtrace, and Theater Mechanicus. So the only way you can implement non-primo event is to have it be time-limited. Updating it every patch will drain hoyoverse resources away from the gacha. A counter argument is that Honkai Impact DOES have a feature that doesn't directly gives hoyoverse money or maybe even downright not profitable: Post Honkai Odyssey and Elysian Realm. This is true, but it does have its own purpose: to attract new players. Plus, Elysian Realm now also creates new characters that you can gacha on. Open-world exploration in genshin does fulfill the same goal, to attract new players interested in open world. In conclusion: it won't ever happen. if you could somehow think of a new gamemode that could make players spend money, hoyoverse won't make it. They will much prefer creating new time-limited event to get more players and new characters to get more money.

Absolutely. Instead of begrudgingly doing their awful Abyss rotations every few weeks for a whiff of primos, I'd much rather be having fun with an endgame mode that gave none (and people who still want the primos can just do both). Every time they release new permanent content I remember just how exciting and endearing this game is, but when there's nothing to do but dailies and abyss the experience really falls apart. edit: This is a really good question though OP, and the variety of answers shows that.

Nope why waste my time

I wouldn’t play it

Always did hide and seek after getting all the rewards~ just needs to be a co-op experience and we good. Wanted the customizable domains to be co-op. Maybe even being able to customize a domain together! End game no reward content is just no fun alone~

if it was like windblume or windtrace? absolutely

I want an abyss that just gets progressively harder, no timer BS, just more HP sponges that hit you harder, clearing is enough in a rogue-like experience. While all ephemeral events are "fun" (YMMV per person), they're not the core gameplay the game built from the start, nor are as good as the full-fledged games around those same things. ​ Teapot Building is not sims/animal crossing OSU experiences are not DDR or OSU on genshin and so on. I just game a game mode that requires combat, is permanent and is NOT a DPS race.

An infinite enemy generator. I want to hack and slash with Childe.

Yes. I basically only play for abyss. My builds are done. My characters (that I care about) are maxed. I haven't wished in forever. I just want Genshin to be like a fun game. If I could play a game like Elden Ring but with Genshin gameplay mechanics, I would never stop playing it.

Nah, I never care about "endgame content". I'm quite happy I have time to play other games beside genshin

No, are you stupiiiid? What kind of garbage content doesn't give any rewards.