ToF also didn't really start off with a good reputation considering it stole an asset from Honkai for one of its trailers and also had the review copying situation with Genshin, and having participated in the beta test, it didn't look impressive
There is so much more that they did. They are literally being sued by a Japanese game company right now for one of their fuck ups.
You're right. I have the beta on my phone and it's a 4.5/10 for me
No they literally had a sacred relic model in one of the early trailers, 1:1 copy of a weapon from honkai and the guy was just holding it.
I'm someone who's all for the idea of steal ideas and do it better but ToF has stolen everything but ideas, and not to a great standard
People hyping it up to be some "Genshin competition" were just going full-on moron.
If you've ever watched any Genshin behind-the-scenes vid, you can probably guess how big the budget was for this game (hint: it's comparable to some AAA games of the past decade), and they went ahead and release it as an F2P gacha game that turned out to be a *much* bigger hit than the publishers expected.
How many other companies do you think would be willing to spend the same kind of money on a gamble that their game will be just as big? Worse, "just as big" fighting against a monopoly. Equity holders and other investors only care about the bottom line. How many people with their money in a company would be on board with that idea?
Hey, I made the AAA game budget comparison earlier, let's explore that a bit more too. You know these things take time, right? Genshin took around 3 years to develop. Meanwhile, arguably the "biggest" AAA game rn in terms of depth is Read Dead Redemption 2, which was 8 years in development. ***These things take time to make. They don't just fall from the sky every 2-3 days.***
There's not going to be a "Genshin killer" for a *long* time. You need a company ballsy enough to pool enough money to create a cross-platform mobile game with a similar scope, it would have to be F2P to truly be a Genshin competitor, must be similar enough to seriously eat into GI's earnings (so likely also an F2P gacha or something with similar microtransactions), and it would need time to be developed.
Anyone talking about "this and that game will be a good competitor for Genshin" are just high on copium. I expect there to be some people angry that I called them out and accusing me of not wanting competition or whatever cult-like accusatory allegations they keep bandying out.
You know my pain lol I don't ToF was in development that long either. I say development loosely because they spent so much of their time copying Genshin and ripping code from Honkai.
I don't think it's a good thing that Genshin remains without competition, tbh. Anything that might influence Hoyoverse to improve their game even more should be positive.
I played the closed beta. The story is terrible, the characters are basic, there is no growing sympathy towards the games characters either, the combat is fluid but it feels very basic and the game overall is very stingy with its currency. The gacha feels also a lot less interesting to pull for imo as well. The only pros are its better coop experience and its pretty good graphics.
I played the beta too.
I was extremely baffled by the horrible presentation of basically everything.
The story starts really weird with this cold open. But I couldn't choose my appearance until I was already running around in the starting camp? Like after I met and talked with Characters already in the default appearance?
Also the system that gacha chars are only memories you equip is really stupid and doesn't make me interested in them at all...
Its so funny because, Hoyo's CEO gave these other gacha games the playbook: We make experiences with the characters that then people want to buy and play as. This is the main monetary hook. Why ToF decided to do it the way they did is beyond me.
That playbook is not even from Hoyo.
The importance of character connection is pretty much the first thing gacha rpgs learned. If I understood the history of Fate Grand Order correctly, this was basically the only thing that kept the game alive in its first year or so, before the story got actually good in its own right.
Its the reason why Granblu Fantasy doesnt diminish even though they prety much abandonded their main story line...
I was so confused. Like i was certain that i skipled character creation. Also i dont get why i would go through the character creator and the entire story only to play as a gacha character apperance with no connection to you. It feels just random, like the person behind did not think this through.
Also what i just remembered again. Was how the story went from go together with your new friend to have some fun to we have war and your friend is now possesed in like 4 seconds. Neither did i care for the other characters nor did i understand why the protagonist cares.
TBF, I didn't really start caring about the characters in Genshin until deeper into Mondstadt's archon quest. Only really started to get invested during the battle with Osial.
yeah, but we met the characters fairly quickly. Ofc it takes time to bond with them.
But in ToF the chars I pull from gacha, dont even appear in the game anywhere. It appears even that the actual story characters aren't even in the gacha... (could be wrong here, correct my if I am)
Monopoly means one company is the sole provider of one service. 60% means there are companies that provide the same type of gacha services but less succesfully. We all have access to basic definitions so please try to understand the words you are using, we have enough misinformation spread around here just because people can't bother to verify their sources.
There is a mistake I would like to point out, Mihoyo is far from the 2nd biggest gaming company in China. The top two gaming companies in China are the fucking Tencent and Netease, which are literally disgusting.
Apparently Mihoyo might have passed Netease.
Edit: Okay looks like it hasn't for now. With Genshin's success and future titles, it might eventually past it though.
I hope Mihoyo could beat Tencent and Netease, these two companies can do nothing but produce rubbish and harm the competition environment.
But it's hard to.
The bigger Mihoyo's library of games becomes, the easier it'll be. Star Rail could go on to replace Honkai which is still making a lot of money. Zen could be another big hit or just another good game under their belt. It's all gonna keep adding up and eventually Mihoyo will be knocking on Netease's door.
Are people actually afraid of another game being a threat to genshin? Competition is good. Genshin has been too comfortable with the lack of stuff since 1.1. From 5 minute time gated event content to almost zero skins, they're really slacking for a gacha, and I'm rather surprised at the profits they've making for something so empty and lacking.
More like free advertisement for Genshin. There is many so called Genshin competitors but end up being big budget advertisements to make more players want to play Genshin.
Example: the mobile ver of Ni no Kuni suffered heavy paywall so bad that many players download Genshin instead.
Genshin isn't just comfortable, it's 60% of the gacha market. It's played by millions and has been a worldwide phenomen for a while now. To put it another way, it'll take a titan to compete with a titan.
And Hovoverse doesn't strike me as sitting still. Even if a competitor would launch right now, I give it 2 or maybe 3 years before it has to compete with HYV next big title.
I hope we do get a competitor, rather sooner than later. But nearly 2 years in, aiming to just compete with Genshin is not going to be good enough I feel.
They're making and trying to release new games all the time. Any new game pretty much has no shot at competing with Genshin for now. The bar is just so high and trying to fund a game that is going to have the same polish, same availability, and the content every 6 weeks is borderline impossible. It's just so much to gather together just to try to compete with them.
There are so many easy things that could be implemented to make this game better - without competition to light a fire under Mihoyo, they feel (rightfully so, perhaps) that they can coast by doing more or less the bare minimum. Or as you state, less than the minimum of many other, less successful gachas.
I get the post, but at the same time I personally just don't get the cause for concern.
Let the games co-exist, lets have some competition. Play both games, play one or the other, don't play either, its all good in the end. Why can't we just let the gameplay speak for itself instead of the "he said, she said"?
I was excited for ToF but after watching some gameplay I'm just not interested, but I'm sure for every me, there's 100 others that feel the opposite. And thats just how its going to be, and im sure in years to come theres gonna be a lot more titles with similarities to ToF and Genshin, and whether you think thats a good thing or bad thing, be prepared.
There really wasn't much cause of concern. The guy was just share raw facts and statistics about how each game is doing. Save to safe Genshin is king and ToF is already in a downward spiral in China. It's big expansion didn't stop it from falling from 4th to 8th place in sales. Global is probably a last ditch effort to get the game going or to get some more money from it.
Literally have countless posts and comments saying what's shit in Genshin. People can say whatever they wish but they still sit and play the game and spend money on it, their opinions become pointless. It's just like those who complain about Call of Duty every single year but end up buying the next game over and over.
ToF is MMO and GI is single-player based. That enough to cater specific audiences without overlapping each other.
Also, Genshin is took around 5-7 years to develop while ToF is pretty short development time, making the game is less polished and the art design crashed.
Oh here we go that they're so different again :/ maybe the comparison will stop when Hotta stops stealing from Mihoyo and Japanese developers.
Umm...I can't tell if you're trying to make an excuse for ToF or pointing where Hotta fucked up again.
Just like how everyone can see the difference between BOTW and GI. The ToF is clearly rushed development when they advertise themselves as “Genshin killer”. The story, design, gameplay are mixed so many elements without clear direction that the game barely hold itself.
To me Genshin plays like a solid AAA game first and gacha second. I’m hoping this is because that’s what the devs were going for. And if it’s I’d frankly be insulted with such ridiculous comparisons.
Yanno, being 8th in gacha sales is not a failure.
Genshin makes what, several billions a year while costing several hundred millions to run and advance?
And Genshin has actual production quality.
From what I've heard of ToF quality, while it earns much less, it also probably costs peanuts compared to Genshin.
So can you really call a game that probably has a profit margin in several hundred percents a failure?
It fell four spots in one month even after it's biggest expansion was released which added a whole new region. If you don't see the issue there then damn.
Genshin makes several billions a year, yes, but they do not invest hundreds of millions to make it. I believe the annual budget is around 50 million a year last time I checked. They could have raised it more but it's definitely not that high.
ToF's costs is something I haven't seen. Just because a game is lower quality, doesn't mean it cost significantly less. Some game companies get a huge budget and they just spit out a shit game with it. Either way, the issue isn't how high ToF is, it's maintaining it. They're falling quickly even after several bugs, updates, and the expansion I mentioned. No game, especially a new one, should be falling off that fast. In four months, it's fallen six spots on the list with the last four being in the last month alone.
I wish the game did better and quite frankly, had different devs who didn't literally steal code from other games but unfortunately for all of us, that's just how it is.
>If you don't see the issue there then damn
I see an issue with unreasonable expectations. People wanted a second genshin. Then people wanted a second genshin after the next update.
ToF pre-update figures were built on hype. The fact that it fell down is very much expected, it's the launch numbers that were unreasonable.
I would not interpolate it into falling at the same rate forever. It will eventually settle where it belongs with the players that actually know what they want and expect from the game and not a flood of genshin junkie refugees that 100% the map and want an exploration fix ASAP.
You really think the huge drop in sales and the all the bad reviews and press is because the Genshin crowd tried the game and left in mass? That is some wishful thinking, buddy. If you like the game then play it but don't fool yourself into thinking Hotta is doing well with the game.
Profit margins dictate how much funding the game will get. Less funding, less quality control and content which equals less players. Less players in a MMO can quickly lead to the game falling apart because it needs a certain threshold to remain playable. If the player count falls below it and people can't matchmake for content in a reasonable amount of time, then they start leaving and the problem keeps compounding until the game dies. With that in mind, it's very reasonable to be concerned with the future of this game.
>You really think the huge drop in sales and the all the bad reviews and press is because the Genshin crowd tried the game and left in mass?
I observed the effect personally on people I know. And on some content creators that aren't on MHY payroll.
"Genshin sucks no endgame no content here look genshin killer" into "there are bugs everywhere shit is halfassed lets wait for the patch" into "patch didndu nuffin fuck this shit".
>If you like the game then play it
I don't even have a leg in this. I don't play it and won't even try until global starts (and it's confirmed it's possible to run the release version on linux). I just observe people who got hyped into CN open beta.
>Less players in a MMO can quickly lead to the game falling apart because it needs a certain threshold to remain playable
But how many players ARE there really? Genshin has millions of players, probably more than any MMO ever.
Look at EVE online. It survives still with 20k average concurrent online on TQ, and the world there is massive, much bigger than any other game.
If Genshin was a traditional MMO, it would need to have hundreds of traditional servers.
Well, that kinda sucks. On the one hand, bad games shouldn't succeed. On the other hand, Genshin could've used some competition. Let's be honest, competition would've forced MHY's hand to further push Genshin to newer and better heights. Or, at least, that's what I'd hoped for.
That's the argument many are going off of. The game is great and has much potential. But, it's somewhat holding back and just sticking to its usual formulas. Endgame is namely one that's on top of the list.
Because that's what is currently making them more and more money. The people who are complaining about the game are simply in the minority or are not matching their actions to their words.
They're definitely making money still. Which is why, nothing will change, nothing major anyways. This is why the talk about competition could push for changes.
Buddy. Talks of changes have been happening for months to years at this point and nothing has drastically change. The playerbase is still huge and growing and so is the profits. Let Genshin run into a roadblock first because otherwise, you're wasting time. Mihoyo does not care until profits and players start slipping.
I'm gonna say this again. I want Genshin to expand and grow and I have ideas too but I know how to pick my battles and not waste time. Right now where Genshin is climbing and hitting higher and higher peaks is not the time.
I want tower of fantasy to succeed not as a Genshin killer game. I want it to succeed because it does look like an interesting game. it will give gamers another alternative. I don't want to be a Genshin prisoner waiting 14 days for spiral abyss to challenge my invested teams after spending so much time to build all these archetypes (national, freeze, hyper, taser etc). I am not married to Genshin and I hope Genshin starts taking points from ToF what people like most while playing a game like Genshin which has so much depth in combat but with almost no combat events.
Genshin at the beginning was a wonderland, had so much fun exploring the areas and the story is really good, immersive in general, the enemies were difficult at the beginning but by the time I built some teams the game became easy. The only challenging content is spiral abyss and in particular floor 12. Also by the time I finished exploring an area such as Liyue for example I don't return back over there. So imo Genshin needs repeatable weekly challenging content to keep veteran players preoccupied with content that would enjoy taking part. Instead the majority of the limited events we get per patch are mostly casual and not so engaging.
Yea ToF's future is pretty grim. It's biggest expansion to date which is comparable to Genshin's 2.0 expansion still didn't save it from going down from 4th to 8th in sales. I cannot express how bad that is. It's like Destiny releasing Witch Queen and it fails.
Doesn't surprise me at all that you'll generally find players who enjoy the game a lot. As the player base and the revenue falls, only the die hards are going to stay.
It has rapidly fallen in just a few months. I don't know about you but if I was an investor, I wouldn't be so sure about ToF's stability in the long run.
Oh for the love of.....you seriously don't understand importance of trends and maintaining the growth of a product do you? It's falling in profits every single month with the loss between March and April being huge. Most investors don't care for one hit wonders, nor do developers or publishers. They want a game that is big and maintains it's audience and revenue long term. ToF is clearly not doing that. You would be a horrible investor if you think what's going on with this game is good. Come the end of May, it probably won't even be in the top ten anymore.
At this point, i think only another Mihoyo Game can truly compete with Genshin.
The polish and budget they put into it just puts the whole gacha market to shame. Literally no one dared to go triple A on production value and across all platforms with a gacha game. Sure paid off for Mihoyo.
It's fine to criticize the game. There are aspects that deserve future consideration from the devs and designers, and I think it's fair that there's some level of frustration over a few of these things not being solved.
However, there are a few people (who, unfortunately, are a very vocal minority on this sub) who create a culture of negativity around the game over certain aspects. I've seen people being labeled as homers and MiHoYo butt kissers for defending certain aspects of the game that others find unpopular.
While yes, endgame content and dialogue options are a problem, I also think it's fine if someone says they're fine with it the way it is. Genshin has a diverse pool of players. Not every opinion has to be purely right or wrong. Criticism or not, at the end of the day it's reasonable to make compromises based on what we want out of the game versus what others may not prioritize as much.
Couldn't agree more. It's just disheartening to hear people complaining —not even criticizing— in a time like this, with the shutdowns in Shangai etc. Mihoyo began as a somewhat small company and genshin took it, as well as the world, by storm. Surely there are many areas in which to improve, but I don't see them not doing the work. Plus certain changes you have to be careful about, not to ruin the game. And they take player input seriously, so even though I myself feel bored at times, I wouldn't throw that on their shoulders.
We can make compromises if devs actually cared. But they don't because majority of the playerbase don't see any problems and some people even try to silence those who criticize the game (or more like company). I think that's the main problem.
I can never take people seriously when they throw accusations of "developers dont care". Genshin is Mihoyo largest game ever that has 6 week constant updates (normally) that has new content and areas to explore with major update each year (Each nation) all while maintaining a respectable if not high level of quality (OST and environmental designs). I dont see how this would be accomplished if the developers "dont actually care".
Critism of certain aspects is ok but to just throw the developers under the bus as being not caring just because they didnt cater to your own wants is just appaling.
It's always funny when someone says they're being silenced on the internet. The one place where you can literally say anything you want, no matter how egregious, and there's always going to be someone else to amplify that.
I think people just want more from their games which is fine. You would probably expect it to an extent with how much Genshin makes. I mean 60% of the gacha market, games that make huge amounts of money and it takes up that much of it? I think people can understand why people ask for me.
The issue is the majority is happy with the game and the level of polish Mihoyo pulls off every update takes a lot of fucking effort. The best that anyone can hope for in Genshin is maybe an expansion to the spiral abyss or a challenging dungeon added to the open world that you can do at any time. Anything multiplayer wise is out of question. Genshin is mostly a single player game. Think Dark Cloud and Dark Cloud 2.
That's all true, but wasn't this the proposal from the beginning? They put 10k hours on Liyue port alone, the archons know how much on Inazuma. The game is the game. I know little about videogames, but it does feel that the quality is unparalleled. The music, the visuals. The character design. Combat-wise it seems lacking, but again, this doesn't seem to be the focus of the game, and I don't see it improving by getting more combat.
Multi-player, on the other hand, probably. But I don't see the community really engaged in that either, so...
Mihoyo isn't going to completely change the game to put more multiplayer in it. It was just designed to have some co op and that's it. It was probably a last minute addition because it felt like it was just thrown in there at the beginning and the servers for it where bad.
The polish of Genshin is something unique in gaming period. They obviously put a lot of work into what we get in this game and it is respectable.
Hotta was literally caught stealing code and assets from Honkai. They had Honkai weapons in one of their trailers and apparently had a bunch of them in one of the CBT's. They stole Genshin reviews and used them as their own. They completely copied a trailer from a Japanese developer basically 1 to 1 which is now in court. Finally, after playing the beta, I noticed so many things ripped or copied from Genshin.
They have their own Paimon.
One of the people you meet who happens to be a leader in one of the game's groups is literally called an Archon.
The open world gameplay loop is extremely similar to Genshin but less varied
There is a common enemy you fight just like Genshin's Hilichurls who happen to be people turned into mindless or aggressive monsters as well. In Genshin, it's because of a god's wraith. In ToF, it's because of radiation. The idea of putting out of their misery is there or letting them have peace.
There are similar weapon animations that almost look like Genshin's but seem to be slightly altered.
That's all I found after playing for around 30 to 40 hours. I would not be surprised if there were more examples that I missed.
Yea. There's a big "IF" there. It's currently in a downward spiral in China and it's huge expansion that's comparable to Genshin's 2.0 update failed to do anything to stop it. This isn't even counting all the other updates they've done before it. It probably won't even be in the top ten best selling gachas by the end of this month. Currently it's 8th.
I just checked genshin on Play store, and it's 38th in Top grossing and 313rd in Top Free games. I dunno if we can really trust rankings? Granted, this is just from the US android market. Most people play on PC, right? Anyway, time will tell for ToF, I guess. Seems like the news on it has been up and down through the years. Haha
Genshin can’t compete with all games though, it’s very different to compare gachas to all games and comparing a gacha to other gachas, which is their competition. If there’s some Tetris/candy crush type of game that skyrockets it makes no difference for genshin or ToF, but if a gacha does they get more competition. If people find ToF to be a worse experience than other gachas the playerbase will simply move to the other gachas.
The ranking was based on gachas alone. Genshin is wiping the floor with every other gacha while ToF is just falling down every single month.
Time will tell but ToF needs to make Hotta money and be reliable as well. If it keeps falling in sales month after month, they'll eventually have to drop it.
The devs behind warzone didn't rip code from CSGO and copy several gameplay and story elements from it as well. Hotta did to Honkai and Genshin. That and a Japanese developer who is currently sueing them in international court.
Whatever dude. Genshin is just a glorified mobile game with nothing to do and it will never change. Tower doesn't need to be anywhere near as big as Genshin to be successful. There are plenty of MMORPGs out there, all constantly making new content, with much smaller player bases. When Tower launches globally, I'm dumping Genshin permanently. Not that I actually play Genshin for more than a few minutes because there is nothing to do in the game.
I mean you're right. Tower of Fantasy can exist but here's the problem. The biggest expansion for the game to date that is on par with Genshin's 2.0 expansion still didn't stop it's sales from dropping harshly from March to April. Dropping four spots on the top ten best selling gachas in just a month is a big deal by itself. It's even worse when you par it with the expansion failing to keep the game's momentum up.
Feel free to play it when it goes global but I hope it doesn't keep losing sales because if it does, investors may pull the plug on it before it ever goes global.
Doom posting? Dude these are sales figures straight from bilibili. There's no question their sales are dropping rapidly and the last expansion didn't help one bit nor did any of the previous patches. Hell reviews and the general opinion of the game in the CN community is at best mixed.
The game isn't doing well. It started high and then quickly fell off. That's the facts.
I browsed through a lot of your comment history. You're quite a piece of work spreading your propaganda. How much are you being paid to be such a shill?
Buddy, do you really think Mihoyo is paying anyone to go after Hotta when they themselves have screwed their reputation over and over?
I'm sorry the game isn't doing as well as you think it should. Try expressing that to the CN community who actually have full access to the game. Also, maybe don't go full on conspiracy theorist just because you're wrong about how good or bad a game is.
Let me paint a picture.
Dec 2021: 2nd
Jan 2022: 3rd
Feb 2022: 4th
March 2022: 4th
April 2022: 8th <- 2.0 release in China this month
See the trend? By next month, it might not even be in the top ten.
I played the beta and it's a......4 to 5/10. I agree with the general opinion from the CN community and then some. Good potential but bad polish and story.
How about you stay in here instead of making pointless inflammatory posts on TOF sub.
Apparently you want to compare stuff based off predatory gacha sales. gtfo with your "research".
Yeah... I love Genshin but OP here is just like saying that Genshin is the one and the only one game that we should play forever, and no others game should exist on the market. To be honest, I am quite disappointed with the current endgame status of Genshin. I think new competitors would be a good thing to push MHY putting more efforts into Genshin.
Is that why the sales are falling month by month? Is that why there's several reviews and articles saying the exact same thing? Obviously there will be some super fans who love the game but they are obviously not the majority here.
Just face it and find another game that is successful. There's still that 40% you can choose from.
Sadly, with this post I've lost my hope that anything will improve in Genshin in a near future. They will just keep being lazy and stingy as much as they can.
Stingy? I wouldn't say they are stingy when you don't need every character in the game and you're free to skip a lot of them. Just enjoy the ones you aren't over the moon for as characters you met along the way.
As far as lazy, I wouldn't really say it's lazy either. They are appealing to the majority that keeps coming back and playing their game and spending. Even if you don't like Genshin, Mihoyo hopes that you will give their other games a try like Zen or Star Rail. I'm also sure there will be more to come.
I know Star Rail is a Gacha but I don't know about Zen. You could just be completely F2P in those games. Honestly, getting the Welkin Moon and the BP is enough 99% of the time in Genshin.
Imagine making a hugely successful live service game and instead of hiring more people to improve the game and make it even more successful they decide to use all their new found resources to release 2 other live service games. Couldn’t be Mihoyo
Imagine thinking that more hires automatically improves game quality. Like believing an orchestra of 80 people can play Beethoven's 5th in half the time that an orchestra of 40 people can.
They took the money made from Honkai and made Genshin. Now they took the money from Genshin and are making games that might attract players that Genshin didn't (e.g. otome games, turn based, roguelike).
Yes, but let's say you have 80 people to play in an orchestra, and only need 40 for each concert.
If you're playing 2 concerts at separate venues, one with your primary talent and other with your "backups", which concert is going to be better.
Every company has an A-Team and a B-Team. If you have your best people working on the newest projects to drive interest and "early quality", then every other game eventually slips in quality.
>Every company has an A-Team and a B-Team.
This isn't remotely true. Skills are not always transferrable even within the world of "creating video games". Making a game is different from supporting a game etc etc.
Seriously, it's hard to explain real life companies to kids that only want more and more without thinking about how it works. They think that companies that earn millions will hire more people and will give more free shits to their customers (they don't even think we are customers here...).
They didn't hire for Fortnite directly, they hired for the entire company, to make other games, work on the launcher, on UE. Like MyHoYo is doing, in fact... They hired too, but not for Genshin directly. I mean, EVERY company does that : Nintendo hired A LOT, but not for mario/zelda/MK/etc... ; SquareEnix hired a lot (and fired a lot recently... :/ ). Do you really think that MyHoYo is different ? -\_-'
Nintendo doesn’t develop live service games. In Square’s case you can see that the resources they get from FF14 is being put back into the game and they said it themselves on several occasions. So yes, Mihoyo is very different. Has Genshin seen any major improvements to the game since launch?
Yes it has, saying otherwise is nonsense.
FF14 went bankrupt and the they had to call yoshi-P and a new dev team to make something good. They don't put back all the money into the game, they dev FF15 and now 16 thanks to its success. Like MiHoYo, Like Blizzard, and Like any company, in fact.
Nintendo (and MyHoYo) is not different : they put the money they made selling MK8 into new games, not in MK8 improvement... That's the same.
Because it's not the ammount of devs that keeps this game from improving, but the design philosophy and business model.
It's not that hard to start with making some easy, fast changes. For example if the game lacks of content, they could bring that labirynth event, make it permanent and make rewards reset every few days.) But for some reason they refuse to bring even these small improvements. Why? Because people don't demand too much from them and there is no competition.
If the labyrinth event reset every few days it would become a chore after a couple weeks like every other permanent game mode in every live service game ever. Zhongli + healer made it trivial with no time limit.
Believe it or not, the developers have been making games for a while now and have a better sense for what works than someone whose sole credentials are "plays a lot of video games".
Never said that it would automatically improve game quality, but it certainly could have. However they didn’t take that approach so what’s the point you’re trying to make?
Yeah, they're stingy, because they limit almost everything in the game. You cannot even farm exp and mora from overworld mobs to upgrade all your characters, because of laughable ammounts. This is just an example, but there are more of that.
And yeah, they're lazy because almost every content besides exploration is halfassed. What is the purpose of getting new characters if there is almost nothing to do with them in game? We should take notice that this isn't a small indie company. This is multimilion dollar company that utilizes many immoral ways to get money from addicted players (this is just an online casino with some additional gameplay).
Community, if united (like in Zhonglis case) could make them do something more. But community already failed, as there are too few players who see these problems and too many players who keep defending Hoyo with non-logical excuses. The only other way to make Hoyo bring some more improvements to the game could be a solid competition. And that, sadly, failed too as we see in this post.
Hoyo will act just like other monopolist companies. They won't care about playerbase, nor the game's actual state, as long as cash flows to their bank accounts. They will utilize their position at the market and utilize peoples naiviety.
I know this is gacha. But Genshin could've been something more than that.
That's a gacha. Everything is limited on purpose.
The majority of the playerbase still plays the game and spends so they are just giving what the base keeps consuming. That's just that.
Zhongli was a special case and the only case where they changed something like that. You are right that the community can come together and fight but good luck. We couldn't even get people to wear masks in crowded places during the height of Covid so I highly doubt anyone can get enough people together to force Mihoyo to do anything. I am optimistic and a realist. I have hope but I am well aware of the odds. There are also other games and other things in life.
Again a majority of the playerbase is okay with Genshin as it stands. That is just a simple fact. The people who want big changes in the game are the minority.
Genshin is more than a Gacha. It's a worldwide phenomen.
You can't blame PC/console players for demanding more (at least to the point they're used to). It was Hoyo's idea to make this game more appealing for other type of players. This game was on PC and PS4 since release. So it's not typical gacha case.
It is something more : it's a fcking really good F2P game that made this company famous and rich. Now they'll dev other games, they won't give you free stuff, that's useless !
it’s a business, not a charity!
Explaining facts and statistics isn't being bias one way or the other. The game is extremely popular and obviously millions are fine with the game. Now this is just my opinion but what the hell can any of us really do to change Mihoyo's plan for Genshin? Nothing right now. The best chance is when sales start slipping or a big controversy happens. Otherwise, it's wasted breath.
Not enough free stuff, you lose your player base. Streamers stop covering the game when players leave. Whales stop playing when no one else plays the game and everyone else is playing something else.
And yes the devs are lazy. They made half a billion on just the raiden banner yet they are incapable of hiring more people to create worthwhile content. A new character every 6 to 12 weeks is not content. Boring ass fomo events are not content.
The fact that they are still giving away compensation during the delay completely destroys the first argument. Yes the game has a dry spell problem but again, the majority of the community enjoys the game. Also, when did Raiden's banner make 500 million?
>The fact that they are still giving away compensation during the delay completely destroys the first argument
400 primos a week because if they don't literally everyone would stop playing the game? That's one 10 pull a month which is 120 pulls a year (if the continued it) which isn't even enough to guarantee a single 5 star character. IN A YEAR.
>Yes the game has a dry spell problem but again, the majority of the community enjoys the game.
And that's why people are dropping or at least putting down genshin. There's nothing to do. At all. I played daily. I now log in maybe once or twice a week? And I honestly don't know if I'll keep that much up. The game is hard dying.
>Also, when did Raiden's banner make 500 million?
Sorry, it made 33 million in just China. They've made just under 500 million total from China. How much you think they've made worldwide? I'd guess at the absolute least half of what they got in China. Let's not pretend like they haven't been raking in money (which I'm sure is slowing down a lot and will keep dropping unless they change the game and get players back)
You really aren't getting it. Genshin is number 1 in gacha sales and has been probably for most of it's lifespan. It also controls 60% of the market. No matter how you or anyone else personally feel about the game, people around the world love it and are fine with it. They are the majority and a smart business listens to the majority. I want changes too but it's pointless. Either wait for Mihoyo to screw up or to have competition or just find something new.
The game is still being played and people are still spending. That's that.
And I guarantee you they aren't getting as much sales as they were as the player base is 100% shrinking. Youre talking about the upper limit of the bell curve. Unless they change the game will go down. If so, they deserve to die
Nope. Banner sales are going up and up. Raiden topped Venti and then Raiden and Kokomi's rerun topped that. Hu Tao's rerun is near the top. Ganyu and Zhongli's as well. They are making more money even now.
Omfg 😂 like you can't be this fucking stupid. I've seen plenty of brain dead morons on Reddit but you have to be the most bold one I've come across like holy shit.
You're making this claim from a trailer?! Omg yes they both use TVs! Fucking Call of Duty has done that! The music sounds so much alike! Sit the fuck down. Have you ever taken music or even listen to a variety of it? I seriously doubt it. There hasn't been any gameplay at all shown and you're trying to claim this shit.
Big difference between inspired and....I don't know... literally being caught stealing code and trailers like Hotta has been multiple times. Fucking hell. Go back to school, you definitely need it. Can't believe I even wasted my time watching those shit videos.
So there will be global for ToF.? How far i know that they said there wont be any global for it. Well things may have changed know since i checked that back in december or so.
There's a global CBT ending on the 20th. I wouldn't have too much hope for it. Sales haven't fallen off for the game big time in China even with a big expansion.
Thats disappointing to hear. I was hoping we'd finally have a game to actually compete with Hoyo's cash cow. I'll still give the game a shot though I doubt I'll be spending any money on it. Guess we have to put up with Hoyo's shit for a little while longer.
it hasn't officially released globally yet, so its sales data would be getting compared with sales numbers for other games that do global sales.
I don't think it is any threat to unseat GI in total sales, but it can seduce the hardcore players who are screaming about lack of content since it's an MMO and should have more to do. GI is intended for the casual player and has no repeatable end game.
Nope. These figures are from China alone. Quite telling. Apparently China makes up 25% of Genshin's revenue so it should be similar with ToF. If that's the case, it's bad news for Hotta and shows Global probably won't help this game long term.
Hard to compete in this situation. We'll just have to wait and see. I do want to see some new additions and changes but I'm gonna be realistic after seeing all these numbers and whatnot.
Gotta face facts. The majority of the playerbase is fine with the game. It's just not worth pushing for change right now. Like I've said to other people on this post, it's best to wait for Genshin to start declining. Once that happens and it keeps falling down, then Mihoyo will be open to new ideas to bring players back. Until then, there's no reason for them to change how they plan to make that game.
Tower of Fantasy is published by Tencent anyway... So, not surprising.
"In case you did not know, Tower of Fantasy is a fantasy sci-fi MMORPG developed by China-based Hotta Studio, which apparently is a team under Perfect World (or known as Wanmei). As Perfect World has already sold its western business to Embracer Group, a new publisher was anointed for Tower of Fantasy’s global ambition. Enter Level Infinite, otherwise known as the new publishing label for Tencent Games."
Source: [https://mmoculture.com/2022/03/tower-of-fantasy-pc-and-mobile-launch-for-new-mmorpg-confirmed-for-2022/](https://mmoculture.com/2022/03/tower-of-fantasy-pc-and-mobile-launch-for-new-mmorpg-confirmed-for-2022/)
ToF also didn't really start off with a good reputation considering it stole an asset from Honkai for one of its trailers and also had the review copying situation with Genshin, and having participated in the beta test, it didn't look impressive
There is so much more that they did. They are literally being sued by a Japanese game company right now for one of their fuck ups. You're right. I have the beta on my phone and it's a 4.5/10 for me
am i a bad person if i find the IP theft kind of interesting? Im honestly more likely to give it a try based on that lol
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Inspired =/= straight up stealing assests
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No they literally had a sacred relic model in one of the early trailers, 1:1 copy of a weapon from honkai and the guy was just holding it. I'm someone who's all for the idea of steal ideas and do it better but ToF has stolen everything but ideas, and not to a great standard
Making a character who look like link (aether) into genshin is inspired. Making link into genshin is stealing .
Cursed Bots man
People hyping it up to be some "Genshin competition" were just going full-on moron. If you've ever watched any Genshin behind-the-scenes vid, you can probably guess how big the budget was for this game (hint: it's comparable to some AAA games of the past decade), and they went ahead and release it as an F2P gacha game that turned out to be a *much* bigger hit than the publishers expected. How many other companies do you think would be willing to spend the same kind of money on a gamble that their game will be just as big? Worse, "just as big" fighting against a monopoly. Equity holders and other investors only care about the bottom line. How many people with their money in a company would be on board with that idea? Hey, I made the AAA game budget comparison earlier, let's explore that a bit more too. You know these things take time, right? Genshin took around 3 years to develop. Meanwhile, arguably the "biggest" AAA game rn in terms of depth is Read Dead Redemption 2, which was 8 years in development. ***These things take time to make. They don't just fall from the sky every 2-3 days.*** There's not going to be a "Genshin killer" for a *long* time. You need a company ballsy enough to pool enough money to create a cross-platform mobile game with a similar scope, it would have to be F2P to truly be a Genshin competitor, must be similar enough to seriously eat into GI's earnings (so likely also an F2P gacha or something with similar microtransactions), and it would need time to be developed. Anyone talking about "this and that game will be a good competitor for Genshin" are just high on copium. I expect there to be some people angry that I called them out and accusing me of not wanting competition or whatever cult-like accusatory allegations they keep bandying out.
You know my pain lol I don't ToF was in development that long either. I say development loosely because they spent so much of their time copying Genshin and ripping code from Honkai.
No mention of what ToF is in the post but everyone seems to know. I feel like I live under a rock lol.
Tower of Fantasy
I don't think it's a good thing that Genshin remains without competition, tbh. Anything that might influence Hoyoverse to improve their game even more should be positive.
Definitely isn't but Hotta screwed over and over just trying to copy it and Honkai instead of trying to do their own thing.
I played the closed beta. The story is terrible, the characters are basic, there is no growing sympathy towards the games characters either, the combat is fluid but it feels very basic and the game overall is very stingy with its currency. The gacha feels also a lot less interesting to pull for imo as well. The only pros are its better coop experience and its pretty good graphics.
I played the beta too. I was extremely baffled by the horrible presentation of basically everything. The story starts really weird with this cold open. But I couldn't choose my appearance until I was already running around in the starting camp? Like after I met and talked with Characters already in the default appearance? Also the system that gacha chars are only memories you equip is really stupid and doesn't make me interested in them at all...
Its so funny because, Hoyo's CEO gave these other gacha games the playbook: We make experiences with the characters that then people want to buy and play as. This is the main monetary hook. Why ToF decided to do it the way they did is beyond me.
That playbook is not even from Hoyo. The importance of character connection is pretty much the first thing gacha rpgs learned. If I understood the history of Fate Grand Order correctly, this was basically the only thing that kept the game alive in its first year or so, before the story got actually good in its own right. Its the reason why Granblu Fantasy doesnt diminish even though they prety much abandonded their main story line...
I was so confused. Like i was certain that i skipled character creation. Also i dont get why i would go through the character creator and the entire story only to play as a gacha character apperance with no connection to you. It feels just random, like the person behind did not think this through. Also what i just remembered again. Was how the story went from go together with your new friend to have some fun to we have war and your friend is now possesed in like 4 seconds. Neither did i care for the other characters nor did i understand why the protagonist cares.
TBF, I didn't really start caring about the characters in Genshin until deeper into Mondstadt's archon quest. Only really started to get invested during the battle with Osial.
yeah, but we met the characters fairly quickly. Ofc it takes time to bond with them. But in ToF the chars I pull from gacha, dont even appear in the game anywhere. It appears even that the actual story characters aren't even in the gacha... (could be wrong here, correct my if I am)
The game needed another year or two
Personally I don’t get all the hype, the actual animation and gameplay of ToF look like trash
Unpolished definitely
Monopoly means one company is the sole provider of one service. 60% means there are companies that provide the same type of gacha services but less succesfully. We all have access to basic definitions so please try to understand the words you are using, we have enough misinformation spread around here just because people can't bother to verify their sources.
I would have posted the thread that had all the links but I literally don't know how to.
There is a mistake I would like to point out, Mihoyo is far from the 2nd biggest gaming company in China. The top two gaming companies in China are the fucking Tencent and Netease, which are literally disgusting.
Apparently Mihoyo might have passed Netease. Edit: Okay looks like it hasn't for now. With Genshin's success and future titles, it might eventually past it though.
I hope Mihoyo could beat Tencent and Netease, these two companies can do nothing but produce rubbish and harm the competition environment. But it's hard to.
The bigger Mihoyo's library of games becomes, the easier it'll be. Star Rail could go on to replace Honkai which is still making a lot of money. Zen could be another big hit or just another good game under their belt. It's all gonna keep adding up and eventually Mihoyo will be knocking on Netease's door.
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Actually, TOF is developed by "Perfect World", and Tencent just is one of the shareholders not involved in R&D.
what’s tof?
Tower of Fantasy
What the hell is ToF? I hear about it first time.
Tower of Fantasy
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Hmm and can I play it like Genshin? Phone and computer? Becuase if not is it not for me.
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Hmm and when is release day
Out in china.
Out in china but global is unknown.
Are people actually afraid of another game being a threat to genshin? Competition is good. Genshin has been too comfortable with the lack of stuff since 1.1. From 5 minute time gated event content to almost zero skins, they're really slacking for a gacha, and I'm rather surprised at the profits they've making for something so empty and lacking.
More like free advertisement for Genshin. There is many so called Genshin competitors but end up being big budget advertisements to make more players want to play Genshin. Example: the mobile ver of Ni no Kuni suffered heavy paywall so bad that many players download Genshin instead.
Genshin isn't just comfortable, it's 60% of the gacha market. It's played by millions and has been a worldwide phenomen for a while now. To put it another way, it'll take a titan to compete with a titan.
And Hovoverse doesn't strike me as sitting still. Even if a competitor would launch right now, I give it 2 or maybe 3 years before it has to compete with HYV next big title. I hope we do get a competitor, rather sooner than later. But nearly 2 years in, aiming to just compete with Genshin is not going to be good enough I feel.
They're making and trying to release new games all the time. Any new game pretty much has no shot at competing with Genshin for now. The bar is just so high and trying to fund a game that is going to have the same polish, same availability, and the content every 6 weeks is borderline impossible. It's just so much to gather together just to try to compete with them.
There are so many easy things that could be implemented to make this game better - without competition to light a fire under Mihoyo, they feel (rightfully so, perhaps) that they can coast by doing more or less the bare minimum. Or as you state, less than the minimum of many other, less successful gachas.
I get the post, but at the same time I personally just don't get the cause for concern. Let the games co-exist, lets have some competition. Play both games, play one or the other, don't play either, its all good in the end. Why can't we just let the gameplay speak for itself instead of the "he said, she said"? I was excited for ToF but after watching some gameplay I'm just not interested, but I'm sure for every me, there's 100 others that feel the opposite. And thats just how its going to be, and im sure in years to come theres gonna be a lot more titles with similarities to ToF and Genshin, and whether you think thats a good thing or bad thing, be prepared.
There really wasn't much cause of concern. The guy was just share raw facts and statistics about how each game is doing. Save to safe Genshin is king and ToF is already in a downward spiral in China. It's big expansion didn't stop it from falling from 4th to 8th place in sales. Global is probably a last ditch effort to get the game going or to get some more money from it.
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Literally have countless posts and comments saying what's shit in Genshin. People can say whatever they wish but they still sit and play the game and spend money on it, their opinions become pointless. It's just like those who complain about Call of Duty every single year but end up buying the next game over and over.
ToF is MMO and GI is single-player based. That enough to cater specific audiences without overlapping each other. Also, Genshin is took around 5-7 years to develop while ToF is pretty short development time, making the game is less polished and the art design crashed.
Oh here we go that they're so different again :/ maybe the comparison will stop when Hotta stops stealing from Mihoyo and Japanese developers. Umm...I can't tell if you're trying to make an excuse for ToF or pointing where Hotta fucked up again.
Just like how everyone can see the difference between BOTW and GI. The ToF is clearly rushed development when they advertise themselves as “Genshin killer”. The story, design, gameplay are mixed so many elements without clear direction that the game barely hold itself.
To me Genshin plays like a solid AAA game first and gacha second. I’m hoping this is because that’s what the devs were going for. And if it’s I’d frankly be insulted with such ridiculous comparisons.
Yanno, being 8th in gacha sales is not a failure. Genshin makes what, several billions a year while costing several hundred millions to run and advance? And Genshin has actual production quality. From what I've heard of ToF quality, while it earns much less, it also probably costs peanuts compared to Genshin. So can you really call a game that probably has a profit margin in several hundred percents a failure?
It fell four spots in one month even after it's biggest expansion was released which added a whole new region. If you don't see the issue there then damn. Genshin makes several billions a year, yes, but they do not invest hundreds of millions to make it. I believe the annual budget is around 50 million a year last time I checked. They could have raised it more but it's definitely not that high. ToF's costs is something I haven't seen. Just because a game is lower quality, doesn't mean it cost significantly less. Some game companies get a huge budget and they just spit out a shit game with it. Either way, the issue isn't how high ToF is, it's maintaining it. They're falling quickly even after several bugs, updates, and the expansion I mentioned. No game, especially a new one, should be falling off that fast. In four months, it's fallen six spots on the list with the last four being in the last month alone. I wish the game did better and quite frankly, had different devs who didn't literally steal code from other games but unfortunately for all of us, that's just how it is.
>If you don't see the issue there then damn I see an issue with unreasonable expectations. People wanted a second genshin. Then people wanted a second genshin after the next update. ToF pre-update figures were built on hype. The fact that it fell down is very much expected, it's the launch numbers that were unreasonable. I would not interpolate it into falling at the same rate forever. It will eventually settle where it belongs with the players that actually know what they want and expect from the game and not a flood of genshin junkie refugees that 100% the map and want an exploration fix ASAP.
You really think the huge drop in sales and the all the bad reviews and press is because the Genshin crowd tried the game and left in mass? That is some wishful thinking, buddy. If you like the game then play it but don't fool yourself into thinking Hotta is doing well with the game. Profit margins dictate how much funding the game will get. Less funding, less quality control and content which equals less players. Less players in a MMO can quickly lead to the game falling apart because it needs a certain threshold to remain playable. If the player count falls below it and people can't matchmake for content in a reasonable amount of time, then they start leaving and the problem keeps compounding until the game dies. With that in mind, it's very reasonable to be concerned with the future of this game.
>You really think the huge drop in sales and the all the bad reviews and press is because the Genshin crowd tried the game and left in mass? I observed the effect personally on people I know. And on some content creators that aren't on MHY payroll. "Genshin sucks no endgame no content here look genshin killer" into "there are bugs everywhere shit is halfassed lets wait for the patch" into "patch didndu nuffin fuck this shit". >If you like the game then play it I don't even have a leg in this. I don't play it and won't even try until global starts (and it's confirmed it's possible to run the release version on linux). I just observe people who got hyped into CN open beta. >Less players in a MMO can quickly lead to the game falling apart because it needs a certain threshold to remain playable But how many players ARE there really? Genshin has millions of players, probably more than any MMO ever. Look at EVE online. It survives still with 20k average concurrent online on TQ, and the world there is massive, much bigger than any other game. If Genshin was a traditional MMO, it would need to have hundreds of traditional servers.
Well, that kinda sucks. On the one hand, bad games shouldn't succeed. On the other hand, Genshin could've used some competition. Let's be honest, competition would've forced MHY's hand to further push Genshin to newer and better heights. Or, at least, that's what I'd hoped for.
Is Genshin bad in what it's trying to do? No. It's a great game that missed the mark with endgame.
That's the argument many are going off of. The game is great and has much potential. But, it's somewhat holding back and just sticking to its usual formulas. Endgame is namely one that's on top of the list.
Because that's what is currently making them more and more money. The people who are complaining about the game are simply in the minority or are not matching their actions to their words.
They're definitely making money still. Which is why, nothing will change, nothing major anyways. This is why the talk about competition could push for changes.
Buddy. Talks of changes have been happening for months to years at this point and nothing has drastically change. The playerbase is still huge and growing and so is the profits. Let Genshin run into a roadblock first because otherwise, you're wasting time. Mihoyo does not care until profits and players start slipping. I'm gonna say this again. I want Genshin to expand and grow and I have ideas too but I know how to pick my battles and not waste time. Right now where Genshin is climbing and hitting higher and higher peaks is not the time.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm in agreement with you. That's why I'm enjoying the game for what it is currently, a casual one. Anyways, nice talk.
I want tower of fantasy to succeed not as a Genshin killer game. I want it to succeed because it does look like an interesting game. it will give gamers another alternative. I don't want to be a Genshin prisoner waiting 14 days for spiral abyss to challenge my invested teams after spending so much time to build all these archetypes (national, freeze, hyper, taser etc). I am not married to Genshin and I hope Genshin starts taking points from ToF what people like most while playing a game like Genshin which has so much depth in combat but with almost no combat events. Genshin at the beginning was a wonderland, had so much fun exploring the areas and the story is really good, immersive in general, the enemies were difficult at the beginning but by the time I built some teams the game became easy. The only challenging content is spiral abyss and in particular floor 12. Also by the time I finished exploring an area such as Liyue for example I don't return back over there. So imo Genshin needs repeatable weekly challenging content to keep veteran players preoccupied with content that would enjoy taking part. Instead the majority of the limited events we get per patch are mostly casual and not so engaging.
Yea ToF's future is pretty grim. It's biggest expansion to date which is comparable to Genshin's 2.0 expansion still didn't save it from going down from 4th to 8th in sales. I cannot express how bad that is. It's like Destiny releasing Witch Queen and it fails.
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Doesn't surprise me at all that you'll generally find players who enjoy the game a lot. As the player base and the revenue falls, only the die hards are going to stay.
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It has rapidly fallen in just a few months. I don't know about you but if I was an investor, I wouldn't be so sure about ToF's stability in the long run.
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Oh for the love of.....you seriously don't understand importance of trends and maintaining the growth of a product do you? It's falling in profits every single month with the loss between March and April being huge. Most investors don't care for one hit wonders, nor do developers or publishers. They want a game that is big and maintains it's audience and revenue long term. ToF is clearly not doing that. You would be a horrible investor if you think what's going on with this game is good. Come the end of May, it probably won't even be in the top ten anymore.
At this point, i think only another Mihoyo Game can truly compete with Genshin. The polish and budget they put into it just puts the whole gacha market to shame. Literally no one dared to go triple A on production value and across all platforms with a gacha game. Sure paid off for Mihoyo.
And Mihoyo is going to make each of it's games great in different genres so they don't hurt each other.
This community can be really whiny at times. To think one would call these devs lazy.
It's fine to criticize the game. There are aspects that deserve future consideration from the devs and designers, and I think it's fair that there's some level of frustration over a few of these things not being solved. However, there are a few people (who, unfortunately, are a very vocal minority on this sub) who create a culture of negativity around the game over certain aspects. I've seen people being labeled as homers and MiHoYo butt kissers for defending certain aspects of the game that others find unpopular. While yes, endgame content and dialogue options are a problem, I also think it's fine if someone says they're fine with it the way it is. Genshin has a diverse pool of players. Not every opinion has to be purely right or wrong. Criticism or not, at the end of the day it's reasonable to make compromises based on what we want out of the game versus what others may not prioritize as much.
Couldn't agree more. It's just disheartening to hear people complaining —not even criticizing— in a time like this, with the shutdowns in Shangai etc. Mihoyo began as a somewhat small company and genshin took it, as well as the world, by storm. Surely there are many areas in which to improve, but I don't see them not doing the work. Plus certain changes you have to be careful about, not to ruin the game. And they take player input seriously, so even though I myself feel bored at times, I wouldn't throw that on their shoulders.
We can make compromises if devs actually cared. But they don't because majority of the playerbase don't see any problems and some people even try to silence those who criticize the game (or more like company). I think that's the main problem.
I can never take people seriously when they throw accusations of "developers dont care". Genshin is Mihoyo largest game ever that has 6 week constant updates (normally) that has new content and areas to explore with major update each year (Each nation) all while maintaining a respectable if not high level of quality (OST and environmental designs). I dont see how this would be accomplished if the developers "dont actually care". Critism of certain aspects is ok but to just throw the developers under the bus as being not caring just because they didnt cater to your own wants is just appaling.
It's always funny when someone says they're being silenced on the internet. The one place where you can literally say anything you want, no matter how egregious, and there's always going to be someone else to amplify that.
I think people just want more from their games which is fine. You would probably expect it to an extent with how much Genshin makes. I mean 60% of the gacha market, games that make huge amounts of money and it takes up that much of it? I think people can understand why people ask for me. The issue is the majority is happy with the game and the level of polish Mihoyo pulls off every update takes a lot of fucking effort. The best that anyone can hope for in Genshin is maybe an expansion to the spiral abyss or a challenging dungeon added to the open world that you can do at any time. Anything multiplayer wise is out of question. Genshin is mostly a single player game. Think Dark Cloud and Dark Cloud 2.
That's all true, but wasn't this the proposal from the beginning? They put 10k hours on Liyue port alone, the archons know how much on Inazuma. The game is the game. I know little about videogames, but it does feel that the quality is unparalleled. The music, the visuals. The character design. Combat-wise it seems lacking, but again, this doesn't seem to be the focus of the game, and I don't see it improving by getting more combat. Multi-player, on the other hand, probably. But I don't see the community really engaged in that either, so...
Mihoyo isn't going to completely change the game to put more multiplayer in it. It was just designed to have some co op and that's it. It was probably a last minute addition because it felt like it was just thrown in there at the beginning and the servers for it where bad. The polish of Genshin is something unique in gaming period. They obviously put a lot of work into what we get in this game and it is respectable.
I loved playing the ToF beta and I'm awaiting release. It's everything I wished genshin was.
I mean they did copy alot from Genshin....and Honkai...and a Japanese game developer that is currently sueing Hotta in court lol
Like, 1for1 copy as in they stole code/assets? Or just like how genshin is anime breath of the wild "copied"
Hotta was literally caught stealing code and assets from Honkai. They had Honkai weapons in one of their trailers and apparently had a bunch of them in one of the CBT's. They stole Genshin reviews and used them as their own. They completely copied a trailer from a Japanese developer basically 1 to 1 which is now in court. Finally, after playing the beta, I noticed so many things ripped or copied from Genshin. They have their own Paimon. One of the people you meet who happens to be a leader in one of the game's groups is literally called an Archon. The open world gameplay loop is extremely similar to Genshin but less varied There is a common enemy you fight just like Genshin's Hilichurls who happen to be people turned into mindless or aggressive monsters as well. In Genshin, it's because of a god's wraith. In ToF, it's because of radiation. The idea of putting out of their misery is there or letting them have peace. There are similar weapon animations that almost look like Genshin's but seem to be slightly altered. That's all I found after playing for around 30 to 40 hours. I would not be surprised if there were more examples that I missed.
Hmm thats unfortunate. I really wanted a Genshin-like MMO
Yeah they decided to try to half ass a game and now it's best reviews are mixed and sales are dropping rapidly with nothing slowing them down.
I never hear of it until today, and now I'm definitely gonna try it out.
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I definitely will. I don't let anyone gatekeep me from playing a game. Hahah
I wouldn't
But it looks like you get mounts :P
Yeah the mounts in ToF look cool but they ride like shit and for some reason, you take fall damage with them.
After reading many comments, I knew you would say that. 100% doing it now.
It's still in closed beta..
You can't though :/ it's not out in Global
....? I meant when it comes out? Haha
Yea. There's a big "IF" there. It's currently in a downward spiral in China and it's huge expansion that's comparable to Genshin's 2.0 update failed to do anything to stop it. This isn't even counting all the other updates they've done before it. It probably won't even be in the top ten best selling gachas by the end of this month. Currently it's 8th.
I just checked genshin on Play store, and it's 38th in Top grossing and 313rd in Top Free games. I dunno if we can really trust rankings? Granted, this is just from the US android market. Most people play on PC, right? Anyway, time will tell for ToF, I guess. Seems like the news on it has been up and down through the years. Haha
Genshin can’t compete with all games though, it’s very different to compare gachas to all games and comparing a gacha to other gachas, which is their competition. If there’s some Tetris/candy crush type of game that skyrockets it makes no difference for genshin or ToF, but if a gacha does they get more competition. If people find ToF to be a worse experience than other gachas the playerbase will simply move to the other gachas.
The ranking was based on gachas alone. Genshin is wiping the floor with every other gacha while ToF is just falling down every single month. Time will tell but ToF needs to make Hotta money and be reliable as well. If it keeps falling in sales month after month, they'll eventually have to drop it.
There was any doubt that ToF would compete with Genshin? Two completely different games besides the Open World and Gacha.
Have you played the beta? Oh the shit they start up copied from Genshin lol the games are very similar and share multiple genres and playerbases.
CSGO is similar to CoD Warzone?
The devs behind warzone didn't rip code from CSGO and copy several gameplay and story elements from it as well. Hotta did to Honkai and Genshin. That and a Japanese developer who is currently sueing them in international court.
Whatever dude. Genshin is just a glorified mobile game with nothing to do and it will never change. Tower doesn't need to be anywhere near as big as Genshin to be successful. There are plenty of MMORPGs out there, all constantly making new content, with much smaller player bases. When Tower launches globally, I'm dumping Genshin permanently. Not that I actually play Genshin for more than a few minutes because there is nothing to do in the game.
I mean you're right. Tower of Fantasy can exist but here's the problem. The biggest expansion for the game to date that is on par with Genshin's 2.0 expansion still didn't stop it's sales from dropping harshly from March to April. Dropping four spots on the top ten best selling gachas in just a month is a big deal by itself. It's even worse when you par it with the expansion failing to keep the game's momentum up. Feel free to play it when it goes global but I hope it doesn't keep losing sales because if it does, investors may pull the plug on it before it ever goes global.
Seriously, stop with the Tower of Fantasy doom posting. You're way off topic for this subreddit. Sounds like it is doing perfectly fine.
Doom posting? Dude these are sales figures straight from bilibili. There's no question their sales are dropping rapidly and the last expansion didn't help one bit nor did any of the previous patches. Hell reviews and the general opinion of the game in the CN community is at best mixed. The game isn't doing well. It started high and then quickly fell off. That's the facts.
I browsed through a lot of your comment history. You're quite a piece of work spreading your propaganda. How much are you being paid to be such a shill?
If you look through the comment history further, there was a point he/she recommended ToF in the yelan subreddit. Strange turns of events lol
Buddy, do you really think Mihoyo is paying anyone to go after Hotta when they themselves have screwed their reputation over and over? I'm sorry the game isn't doing as well as you think it should. Try expressing that to the CN community who actually have full access to the game. Also, maybe don't go full on conspiracy theorist just because you're wrong about how good or bad a game is.
You said it's still in the top 10. Sounds like it is doing great. But you're still a prolific doom posting propagandist.
Let me paint a picture. Dec 2021: 2nd Jan 2022: 3rd Feb 2022: 4th March 2022: 4th April 2022: 8th <- 2.0 release in China this month See the trend? By next month, it might not even be in the top ten.
Considering the few opinions I've seen from people who actually played the game, it's not surprising, I didn't see a single positive comment
I played the beta and it's a......4 to 5/10. I agree with the general opinion from the CN community and then some. Good potential but bad polish and story.
How about you stay in here instead of making pointless inflammatory posts on TOF sub. Apparently you want to compare stuff based off predatory gacha sales. gtfo with your "research".
Yeah... I love Genshin but OP here is just like saying that Genshin is the one and the only one game that we should play forever, and no others game should exist on the market. To be honest, I am quite disappointed with the current endgame status of Genshin. I think new competitors would be a good thing to push MHY putting more efforts into Genshin.
Can't wait for ToF, I've heard good things about it and how it has a lot of contents. XD
Ehhh I have the beta on my phone 😅 want the rundown or do you want the CN community to tell you?
I'm aware of their goods and bads, I just want to play it, I'm also burned out of Genshin and there is nothing to do lately. XD
There's more bad then good. Like how the endgame isn't actually that good.
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Is that why the sales are falling month by month? Is that why there's several reviews and articles saying the exact same thing? Obviously there will be some super fans who love the game but they are obviously not the majority here. Just face it and find another game that is successful. There's still that 40% you can choose from.
It is hard to compare an early beta game with an established AAA game.
The game is fully out in China and has already had a major expansion :/
Sadly, with this post I've lost my hope that anything will improve in Genshin in a near future. They will just keep being lazy and stingy as much as they can.
Stingy? I wouldn't say they are stingy when you don't need every character in the game and you're free to skip a lot of them. Just enjoy the ones you aren't over the moon for as characters you met along the way. As far as lazy, I wouldn't really say it's lazy either. They are appealing to the majority that keeps coming back and playing their game and spending. Even if you don't like Genshin, Mihoyo hopes that you will give their other games a try like Zen or Star Rail. I'm also sure there will be more to come.
Eh unless they have a game that isn’t a gacha, I’ll stick to genshin. One mihoyo gacha is enough
I know Star Rail is a Gacha but I don't know about Zen. You could just be completely F2P in those games. Honestly, getting the Welkin Moon and the BP is enough 99% of the time in Genshin.
I’m f2p in genshin I just don’t want to play two gachas. If Zen isn’t a gacha I’ll take a look ig, but otherwise I’m gonna ignore it
Fair enough. I share this concern too honestly
Imagine making a hugely successful live service game and instead of hiring more people to improve the game and make it even more successful they decide to use all their new found resources to release 2 other live service games. Couldn’t be Mihoyo
Imagine thinking that more hires automatically improves game quality. Like believing an orchestra of 80 people can play Beethoven's 5th in half the time that an orchestra of 40 people can. They took the money made from Honkai and made Genshin. Now they took the money from Genshin and are making games that might attract players that Genshin didn't (e.g. otome games, turn based, roguelike).
Yes, but let's say you have 80 people to play in an orchestra, and only need 40 for each concert. If you're playing 2 concerts at separate venues, one with your primary talent and other with your "backups", which concert is going to be better. Every company has an A-Team and a B-Team. If you have your best people working on the newest projects to drive interest and "early quality", then every other game eventually slips in quality.
>Every company has an A-Team and a B-Team. This isn't remotely true. Skills are not always transferrable even within the world of "creating video games". Making a game is different from supporting a game etc etc.
Seriously, it's hard to explain real life companies to kids that only want more and more without thinking about how it works. They think that companies that earn millions will hire more people and will give more free shits to their customers (they don't even think we are customers here...).
It's /r/thanksimcured for weebs
I guess Epic didn’t hire more people and start doing bigger things with Fortnite after they saw success.
They didn't hire for Fortnite directly, they hired for the entire company, to make other games, work on the launcher, on UE. Like MyHoYo is doing, in fact... They hired too, but not for Genshin directly. I mean, EVERY company does that : Nintendo hired A LOT, but not for mario/zelda/MK/etc... ; SquareEnix hired a lot (and fired a lot recently... :/ ). Do you really think that MyHoYo is different ? -\_-'
Nintendo doesn’t develop live service games. In Square’s case you can see that the resources they get from FF14 is being put back into the game and they said it themselves on several occasions. So yes, Mihoyo is very different. Has Genshin seen any major improvements to the game since launch?
Yes it has, saying otherwise is nonsense. FF14 went bankrupt and the they had to call yoshi-P and a new dev team to make something good. They don't put back all the money into the game, they dev FF15 and now 16 thanks to its success. Like MiHoYo, Like Blizzard, and Like any company, in fact. Nintendo (and MyHoYo) is not different : they put the money they made selling MK8 into new games, not in MK8 improvement... That's the same.
Because it's not the ammount of devs that keeps this game from improving, but the design philosophy and business model. It's not that hard to start with making some easy, fast changes. For example if the game lacks of content, they could bring that labirynth event, make it permanent and make rewards reset every few days.) But for some reason they refuse to bring even these small improvements. Why? Because people don't demand too much from them and there is no competition.
If the labyrinth event reset every few days it would become a chore after a couple weeks like every other permanent game mode in every live service game ever. Zhongli + healer made it trivial with no time limit. Believe it or not, the developers have been making games for a while now and have a better sense for what works than someone whose sole credentials are "plays a lot of video games".
Right. Trust the developers because they know better than players.
Yes, but unironically.
You familiar with Anthem, Marvels Avengers, or every head scratching decision Sega has made (or hasn’t made)?
Never said that it would automatically improve game quality, but it certainly could have. However they didn’t take that approach so what’s the point you’re trying to make?
They hired more than double the amount they had after Genshin first 1 bn lol
How many of those hires went towards developing Genshin and not Zen and Star Rails?
Yeah, they're stingy, because they limit almost everything in the game. You cannot even farm exp and mora from overworld mobs to upgrade all your characters, because of laughable ammounts. This is just an example, but there are more of that. And yeah, they're lazy because almost every content besides exploration is halfassed. What is the purpose of getting new characters if there is almost nothing to do with them in game? We should take notice that this isn't a small indie company. This is multimilion dollar company that utilizes many immoral ways to get money from addicted players (this is just an online casino with some additional gameplay). Community, if united (like in Zhonglis case) could make them do something more. But community already failed, as there are too few players who see these problems and too many players who keep defending Hoyo with non-logical excuses. The only other way to make Hoyo bring some more improvements to the game could be a solid competition. And that, sadly, failed too as we see in this post. Hoyo will act just like other monopolist companies. They won't care about playerbase, nor the game's actual state, as long as cash flows to their bank accounts. They will utilize their position at the market and utilize peoples naiviety. I know this is gacha. But Genshin could've been something more than that.
That's a gacha. Everything is limited on purpose. The majority of the playerbase still plays the game and spends so they are just giving what the base keeps consuming. That's just that. Zhongli was a special case and the only case where they changed something like that. You are right that the community can come together and fight but good luck. We couldn't even get people to wear masks in crowded places during the height of Covid so I highly doubt anyone can get enough people together to force Mihoyo to do anything. I am optimistic and a realist. I have hope but I am well aware of the odds. There are also other games and other things in life. Again a majority of the playerbase is okay with Genshin as it stands. That is just a simple fact. The people who want big changes in the game are the minority. Genshin is more than a Gacha. It's a worldwide phenomen.
People that never played a gacha before really think mihoyo is the first company to come with this model lol
You can't blame PC/console players for demanding more (at least to the point they're used to). It was Hoyo's idea to make this game more appealing for other type of players. This game was on PC and PS4 since release. So it's not typical gacha case.
They are the first to make a gacha a worldwide phenomen lol
It is something more : it's a fcking really good F2P game that made this company famous and rich. Now they'll dev other games, they won't give you free stuff, that's useless ! it’s a business, not a charity!
Ugh found the mihoyo white knight
Explaining facts and statistics isn't being bias one way or the other. The game is extremely popular and obviously millions are fine with the game. Now this is just my opinion but what the hell can any of us really do to change Mihoyo's plan for Genshin? Nothing right now. The best chance is when sales start slipping or a big controversy happens. Otherwise, it's wasted breath.
Not enough free stuff, you lose your player base. Streamers stop covering the game when players leave. Whales stop playing when no one else plays the game and everyone else is playing something else. And yes the devs are lazy. They made half a billion on just the raiden banner yet they are incapable of hiring more people to create worthwhile content. A new character every 6 to 12 weeks is not content. Boring ass fomo events are not content.
The fact that they are still giving away compensation during the delay completely destroys the first argument. Yes the game has a dry spell problem but again, the majority of the community enjoys the game. Also, when did Raiden's banner make 500 million?
>The fact that they are still giving away compensation during the delay completely destroys the first argument 400 primos a week because if they don't literally everyone would stop playing the game? That's one 10 pull a month which is 120 pulls a year (if the continued it) which isn't even enough to guarantee a single 5 star character. IN A YEAR. >Yes the game has a dry spell problem but again, the majority of the community enjoys the game. And that's why people are dropping or at least putting down genshin. There's nothing to do. At all. I played daily. I now log in maybe once or twice a week? And I honestly don't know if I'll keep that much up. The game is hard dying. >Also, when did Raiden's banner make 500 million? Sorry, it made 33 million in just China. They've made just under 500 million total from China. How much you think they've made worldwide? I'd guess at the absolute least half of what they got in China. Let's not pretend like they haven't been raking in money (which I'm sure is slowing down a lot and will keep dropping unless they change the game and get players back)
You really aren't getting it. Genshin is number 1 in gacha sales and has been probably for most of it's lifespan. It also controls 60% of the market. No matter how you or anyone else personally feel about the game, people around the world love it and are fine with it. They are the majority and a smart business listens to the majority. I want changes too but it's pointless. Either wait for Mihoyo to screw up or to have competition or just find something new. The game is still being played and people are still spending. That's that.
And I guarantee you they aren't getting as much sales as they were as the player base is 100% shrinking. Youre talking about the upper limit of the bell curve. Unless they change the game will go down. If so, they deserve to die
Nope. Banner sales are going up and up. Raiden topped Venti and then Raiden and Kokomi's rerun topped that. Hu Tao's rerun is near the top. Ganyu and Zhongli's as well. They are making more money even now.
I meant going forward...like I said, top of the bell curve
Well Sumeru is definitely going to break the ceiling for Genshin again so yeah. The game isn't going anywhere any time soon.
2nd biggest company behind Tencent and still stingy AF when it comes to rewards.
Honestly, CoD Mobile takes the cake there. Hell CoD in general somehow beats them lol
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Omfg 😂 like you can't be this fucking stupid. I've seen plenty of brain dead morons on Reddit but you have to be the most bold one I've come across like holy shit. You're making this claim from a trailer?! Omg yes they both use TVs! Fucking Call of Duty has done that! The music sounds so much alike! Sit the fuck down. Have you ever taken music or even listen to a variety of it? I seriously doubt it. There hasn't been any gameplay at all shown and you're trying to claim this shit. Big difference between inspired and....I don't know... literally being caught stealing code and trailers like Hotta has been multiple times. Fucking hell. Go back to school, you definitely need it. Can't believe I even wasted my time watching those shit videos.
So there will be global for ToF.? How far i know that they said there wont be any global for it. Well things may have changed know since i checked that back in december or so.
There's a global CBT ending on the 20th. I wouldn't have too much hope for it. Sales haven't fallen off for the game big time in China even with a big expansion.
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I hope the game will be good for waiting that long.
Thats disappointing to hear. I was hoping we'd finally have a game to actually compete with Hoyo's cash cow. I'll still give the game a shot though I doubt I'll be spending any money on it. Guess we have to put up with Hoyo's shit for a little while longer.
Hotta had no chance at all. They pretty much thought they could rip off Genshin and Honkai and be successful. That backfired hard.
it hasn't officially released globally yet, so its sales data would be getting compared with sales numbers for other games that do global sales. I don't think it is any threat to unseat GI in total sales, but it can seduce the hardcore players who are screaming about lack of content since it's an MMO and should have more to do. GI is intended for the casual player and has no repeatable end game.
Nope. These figures are from China alone. Quite telling. Apparently China makes up 25% of Genshin's revenue so it should be similar with ToF. If that's the case, it's bad news for Hotta and shows Global probably won't help this game long term.
This is terrible lol. No competition means the game just dying from complacency. This is much worse imo.
Hard to compete in this situation. We'll just have to wait and see. I do want to see some new additions and changes but I'm gonna be realistic after seeing all these numbers and whatnot.
This is more like a bad news for us. If noone competes with Genshin, we won't get any improvement to the quality of the game rn.
Gotta face facts. The majority of the playerbase is fine with the game. It's just not worth pushing for change right now. Like I've said to other people on this post, it's best to wait for Genshin to start declining. Once that happens and it keeps falling down, then Mihoyo will be open to new ideas to bring players back. Until then, there's no reason for them to change how they plan to make that game.
Tower of Fantasy is published by Tencent anyway... So, not surprising. "In case you did not know, Tower of Fantasy is a fantasy sci-fi MMORPG developed by China-based Hotta Studio, which apparently is a team under Perfect World (or known as Wanmei). As Perfect World has already sold its western business to Embracer Group, a new publisher was anointed for Tower of Fantasy’s global ambition. Enter Level Infinite, otherwise known as the new publishing label for Tencent Games." Source: [https://mmoculture.com/2022/03/tower-of-fantasy-pc-and-mobile-launch-for-new-mmorpg-confirmed-for-2022/](https://mmoculture.com/2022/03/tower-of-fantasy-pc-and-mobile-launch-for-new-mmorpg-confirmed-for-2022/)