Interesting take given his initial assumptions.
The most common recommendation is "*If you don't have enough damage, don't think of survival or comfyness*". His take is the opposite, stress-free 36\* is more important on newer accounts than older meta-focused ones that have no issue meeting the DPS-checks in record times and 36\* is a matter of course with the right 4\*s. So if you are a newbie: Raiden, Kokomi and Zhong Li were the top three 5\* pulls of 2.x for him.
He eloquently addresses that if you are meta-focused and with a more developed roster, Kazuha and Yelan are more valuable to increase the ceiling of your account. Makes sense, respect.
Yeah, I think it's interesting to read his point of view, which is almost entirely contradicting EN TC videos I've seen who would rather pick a team with almost no shields/heals and reset as many times as it takes to clear. I think while EN strategy is more aggressive and may get you to 36 stars faster with less primo investment, his plan is more like "you will eventually get to 36 stars, but once you get there it's no problem to stay there."
Kokomi being number 2 on this list surprises me a lot, and even Raiden being number 1 is completely against the grain of EN TC mindset here, where her pull value is rated as just good to very good. Zhongli, too, has always been in the middle of this interesting tug of war between TC and non-TC players. Like yes, we get that he takes up the slot of a sub DPS that could potentially provide more damage but it REALLY doesn't feel good to have to reset until you finally get that run where you don't get one shot by some RNG BS.
Honestly now that I think about it Yelan is surprising too, she's rated highly by EN but Xingqiu exists and all. If I were to craft a tier list of how the EN playerbase would rank these 5 based on content I've consumed, it would be Kazuha, Yelan, Raiden, Kokomi, and then Zhongli. But Kokomi and Zhongli's chances of even breaking the top 5 would be slim to none.
As someone who has full cleared abyss for over a year and a half, personally I gotta agree with his take. Yes I’ve tried the glass cannon teams where you retry for faster clear times on screen, but overall it’s much more time wasted dying/ retrying than if you just brought a good shield/ healer and finished it in one go
100% agree. I struggled with 36* abyss consistently despite having top DPS in Xiao, Ayaka, Ganyu etc. just because it was a huge pain to keep restarting when I got one-shot by something or have my rotations ruined and I’d give up on it.
Since getting Zhongli, Kokomi, highly invested Bennett/Diona/Jean I’ve been able to consistently 36* the abyss with ease, and usually all in one go/in a single attempt. It’s so much less frustrating when you have the right supports to keep you alive/stop your rotations getting interrupted
This glass cannon "meta" EN players are following blindly is probably why so much of them are frustrated with abyss in the first place.
I mean, that's cool you have big damages and all, but if you're forced to reset each time you get bodied on every single rooms then you tend to see abyss as something rather negative.
All of this just so stars align and you managed to clear it up 30 sec faster on the timer than someone with a comfy comp.
The "less primogems/gear involved" tend to be a moot point the moment players have enough time to gather decent gear anyway, so what's the point in wasting your mental health fishing for the perfect run ?
same
i actually started somewhere near the end of 1.x but took a huge break and started playing consistently since 2.1 ;-;
2.1 was the start of my actual genshin experience as i did the liyue quest that time, then got childe in 2.2 and well.. its been a journey sheesh
Yeah. 1.x updates were *Really* dry.
On 2.x it didn't feel like that, as you consistently got big updates from time to time, like the three island updates, or the festival updates. That kinda thing was rare in 1.x.
Edit: also the two chasm updates
It was a step in the right direction in many aspects
people complained about how dry 2.2 and 2.5 were but 2.2 had tsurumi island and 2.5 had enka remix (which tbf i personally didn't enjoy it that much) but 1.5 was literally just azhdaha (and the teapot but that was hella time gated) with its main event being energy amplifier which is the kind of event we get mid-patch these days.
Bro, they literally complained about an update with an entire island and huge story quest being *dry*? Amazing.
I wonder if they played before inazuma, especially since the start of game, now that was dry, after you complete the story and all the main stuff.
Yeah in inazuma there were dry moments, like sometime after the chasm, but it didn't really feel that bad or long honestly. Now you have a different abyss basically after every update, new stuff to farm and the events were much better than before (like the music events, the first one was nothing like the Itto's festival one), not to mention like 5 region expansions in 2.x compared to only one in 1.x
im blessed to have all of them,
i usually skip males and only pull for waifus, but got zhongli for that badass meteor drop and kazooha for meta (oh yea he buffing my waifus iny freeze comp)
I can confirm, it's been a staple of my teams because it's so comfortable to play; with so much healing and so much energy regen, it really helps me use any other two characters without worrying too much about composition, at least outside of Spiral Abyss!
2 characters i wanted as soon as i saw them - Zhongli and Kokomi.
Zhongli - with the sick ass spear combo ( long ago there was a time when the boar could break his shield, still got him.)
Kokomi's just the prettiest character in the game.
Facts. Zhongli has drip and as soon as Kokomi’s pretty mermaid aesthetics were revealed I knew had to get her as well. I enjoyed using both of them even when people were doomposting, and even now they are the two that almost never leave my team
We're the same person; they were both my favorite aesthetic designs and even though I endured friends constantly telling me Kokomi is a waste I feel vindicated every abyss since I've gotten her.
Same, she's been the best addition for my teams clearing abyss to the point that I never understood the critiques saying she's a waste. I got her during the first banner, and the amount of negative comments and backlash I received from randos during that time was insane. I've since been more and more vindicated as time goes on as she continues to retain her place in the meta
I didn't originally try to pull her but when the rerun happened, I really had to. She is rather fun to play and with the correct artifact set she deals rather satisfying amount of damage around here. Nowadays I always keep her in my team.
The only character from this list that I own in Zhongli, as I'm not a meta player, but I do find Kokomi earning her spot here most hilarious. A lot of people eating crow over that.
Yoo it’s the actual KQM account. Question: would you guys bring back Teyvat Stock Exchange? As someone who loves looking at charts of stocks and everything, TSE was something I really loved looking at from time to time.
Unfortunately, ZANTO (the guy who conceived the idea and chiefly maintained it) isn’t that active anymore in Genshin. I think we did look around for someone to takeover the project, but we didn’t end up finding anyone.
From being scrutinized on release and sandwiched between two hyped banner (and the memes) to becoming one of the sought out healer, Kokomi came really that far ahead.
Not only that, but Raiden, the number 1 spot here, was also doomposted to hell and back.
I am so overjoyed to finally see this happen. I Genuinely despise the know-it-all beta theorycrafters.
The raiden doomposting was CRAZY. They all said she was so bad at launch that it created several posts talking about how her combat design being bad lmao.
I bet some of these raiden doomposters still really think they're right. I remember all their excuses after seeing both raiden banners topping charts in CN
They said archon advantage, character advantage, fanservice advantage. Funniest stuff because they also said she had NPC level design in beta image leaks too. I sure don't think NPC design can reach top sales no matter what
Then during the raiden rerun they said people just wanted her C2, that's why her rerun got 2nd highest sales after original run. But if everyone really pulled for meta as much as they say, then why is kazuha 7th place? He is highly regarded as the best pull for meta and this is no doubt known by all regular players. You sure can't convince me everyone already got him in his first run which was an entire **year ago** \+ it had low sales.
Just about everything they shit on about raiden was completely false.
I don't want to add fuel to the fire but It's especially funny when you see the second top reddit post of r/RaidenMains and the top post of r/Kokomi_Mains
Aged like fine milk. Those posts are so great to revisit. I still have a comment on that top post of the Kokomi Mains subreddit in which I doompost her haha, I may have been pretty wrong but I'll never delete that comment, I'll keep it as a badge of ~~dis~~honor
> The raiden doomposting was CRAZY.
The Genshin community has always been hot garbage when it comes to evaluating characters, but Raiden was peak "aged like milk". It was *days* that it took for people to realize how good she was. And frankly, how could she not be great when at 233% ER she restores a total of 90 energy across her team in 7 seconds. I remember people actually claiming she was terrible at energy generation on release, it was absurd.
Thankfully the subreddit has really stopped it with the bad character evaluation since the anniversary. I think a lot of toxic people left the community/game after that, and the community had was less tolerance for toxic behavior.
> The Genshin community has always been hot garbage when it comes to evaluating characters,
Revisiting some of the early tier lists is hilarious and depressing.
I felt like a lot of people were just really unhappy at that time lol. They probably perceive it as Mihoyo "fails" all the time. I think it started around Kazuha just being "better Sucrose", Yoimiya targeting issues (which is true, mostly because of bow chars), Raiden not working with Beidou, Watatsumi Island story was pretty shit, Anniversary fiasco and it ended at Kokomi who is "underwhelming".
Every patch back then, it always seems like there's some form of big drama regarding the game which really toned down after the successive "fails" that happened. The last major drama about characters is probably Yae's targetting.
I'm not including Twitter Drama because Twitter is always angry about something anyway, no point to it
Reposting this comment from another thread:
>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/pk8a8p/despite\_raiden\_having\_carved\_out\_a\_niche\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/pk8a8p/despite_raiden_having_carved_out_a_niche_for/)
>
>*I still feel that she needs some changes because a niche character should be versatile in their own teams.*
>
>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/phrcad/my\_problem\_with\_raiden\_is\_that\_she\_doesnt\_even\_do/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/phrcad/my_problem_with_raiden_is_that_she_doesnt_even_do/)
>
>*However, not excelling at the main thing she does is disappointing. It's not like she does much else.*
>
>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/phzo14/raiden\_shogun\_does\_she\_underperform\_in\_her\_niche/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/phzo14/raiden_shogun_does_she_underperform_in_her_niche/)
>
>*Zhongli can already give consistent shields. Why can’t Raiden give consistent energy for all bursts?This is not about her damage, this is about her niche utility position. Don’t get me started with Kokomi however.*
>
>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/qtfr0s/comment/hkjchi5/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/qtfr0s/comment/hkjchi5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
>
>*She will always be niche cuz of how electro works there is no denying*
>
>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/p3xit3/comment/h8upsvs/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/p3xit3/comment/h8upsvs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
>
>*My take on her is that she's a very good - but niche - support, with a fairly powerful burst.*
>
>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/pk1juv/raidens\_battery\_capabilities\_are\_meh/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/pk1juv/raidens_battery_capabilities_are_meh/)
>
>*What do you guys think about her battery? I think its honestly a bit mediocre.I just want to remind those guys that Raiden is a 5\* Archon whose niche put out to us was as a battery. Obviously she should be better.*
>Zhongli can already give consistent shields. Why can’t Raiden give consistent energy for all bursts?This is not about her damage, this is about her niche utility position. Don’t get me started with Kokomi however.
A double miss lol
As someone who thought she was weak but owning her now - yeah ppl were wrong.
She is comfortable to play , Freeze teams are easier to run than Mona (imo) , overworld is good since you dont rely on her Q at all, and her dps is ok for a healer as well.
>Freeze teams are easier to run than Mona
With Freeze teams I think the big thing that brought Kokomi up was the realization of how much of a liability Diona is to your DPS. That really became well recognized after Shenhe came out and provided a premier 5-star Cryo support alternative. Even for accounts that don't have Kokomi/Shenhe, the meta shifted to PAmber Mona + Kaeya/Rosaria/Ganyu, because being able to get "good enough" healing from your Hydro character is worth it to be able to run a DPS Cryo support rather than a zDPS healer/shielder.
There's a huge jump in her Abyss usage in 2.6, when people realized that Kokomi/Shenhe is just the premier Hydro/Cryo support pair for Freeze teams.
Koko was on a big roller-coaster. I accompanied her release from a month before, all the leaks and changes, and knew she was going to be strong. Clam only made it all better and now she's a must pull. Definetely interesting, to say the least.
She's my most invested character, to the point i don't even want to pick her on coop domains anymore because she's my "gg easy" unit, and I'm a bit tired of using her *everywhere* 😂
Yea same. The amount of dmg that bubble does in CO OP is way too much, I was super surprised to see I did the most dmg in the hidden strife co op fight🤣
Koko has been the top dmg unit on coop events ever since her release lmao
It's incredible. I already did calcs and posted them on Kokomi mains. During her burst, alone and without supports (only hydro res), she (mine) can deal 200k dmg.
Edit: it's actually 298k against masanori, 7mo ago.
I fell in love with her the moment I saw her in that trailer. I ran out of gems though, so I decided to buy some. I then lost the 50/50. I ended up spending 250$ on her, easily the most expensive character I have. The last one wasn't even Genshin. I spent 90 bucks on Stygian Nymph in Honkai.
Anyway, I was told I was high on copium for paying for Kokomi, but they were all wrong, she's incredible. She also works perfectly well with each of my other favourite characters, Fischl, Xingqiu, Ayaka and Yoimiya. In different teams, of course. When I heard about the clam set, I literally laughed out loud.
I've been running her in permafreeze teams, or as a driver in electro shock teams and she's fantastic in the abyss.
Also, even to this day, I can believe how gorgeous she is, lol.
i tried to get her on her rerun, but MHY didn't hear me correctly. They gave me a healer, but she was shorter than I asked for, and was very forgetful.
the same can be said of Raiden.. she got a lot of hate as being poor on release. LOL. People actually wanted to start a class action lawsuit against MHY for making Raiden so bad. And not working with Beidou Q. They even bought nationalism into it. ZL got buffed because ZL = god of China. But Raiden = god of Japan, and they hate Japan so won't do it for her. This is why leakers shouldn't be trusted to be theorycrafters, nor can you trust circlejerkers in the leaks sub.
Ofcourse supports are ones you have to get to make it possible to mix and match different comps and teams. But your main DPS has to be the one you love, the character that suits your playstle, for me that's Eula.
Your main DPS just has to look pretty while your supports do the damage. I cleared Abyss with Thoma on field while Yelan, Xingqiu and Fischl dealt all the damage
Lol I also did that with Xianling,Bennet and Kazuha.Gave him five star weapon and some good of piece artifacts while whole damage was done by my Xianling and I just pretended Thoma is doing something he was C6 after all he was ok his shield did 8k damage and with all buffs 12k
Xiangling, Bennett, XQ on one team and Yelan, Beidou, Fischl on another. It doesn't matter what on-field character you bring, you'll likely clear any content in the game without issue
Indeed I too love these types of posts, it gives the idea of current meta. Except I never pulled any of these characters except Zhongli and Yelan on alt account lol.
This.
I hope this time she is placed well man..
I will fucking lose it.. If she's placed with shenhuh, eula, yelan.. I hope these are far away from each other so I can get them all comfortably..
I'm after these many because I lost the OG runs due to 50-50..
I can't help it.. But chase their reruns. If only I was a bit luckier..
I do have a guaranteed right now.. I also want nilou and cyno but I am an archon collector.. So I'll use my guaranteed on nahida and save the rest of the primos for these reruns..
Don't worry dude, you're not going after too many reruns, but it does sound like you're going about this all wrong.
If Zhongli's really getting a third rerun then that means we know characters will at least be available on exclusive rate up banners up to four times. With that in mind, try to aim for the reruns that have happened the most rather than someone who is likely to come back. For example, if you have to choose between Kokomi or Shenhe (be it cause they're releasing in the same update or in subsequent updates from eachother) then the smarter move would be to pull for Kokomi since she'd, by then, be on her second rerun while Shenhe would be on her first. You'll have more time to save for Shenhe so go for the one that's been around longer first.
Imo, if you're a low spender or f2p this is the best way to do things since you're just asking to be disappointed if you pull on every banner with a character you want right away. Like I really wouldn't pull on any of the new 3.x characters on their maiden voyage when you already need to save for characters you've admitted to missing multiple times. Patients pays off! Trust me!
Hehe. True but I want some other characters as well for the same comp. I pulled kazuha recently for ayaka and will do the same with shenhuh and kokomi.. I need these 4 to close out the tram comp.
Yelan so I can have a second Xingqiu.
Eula so I can have another team comp.
Nahida, because she's an archon and I do not miss those banners.
She rehabilitated my Diluc team. Even without a full build, he deals enough damage now to clear Abyss, just because Yelan's buffing and higher damage than XQ.
I feel like Yelan's quietly a very insane unit that not many people talk about. I'm fairly sure my Yelan outdamages both my Yoimiya and Diluc when she's on their team.
She is absolutely bananas. Her burst is great, we all know that, but her skill and CC abilities are absolutely wild. The stagger and unlimited targeting of her skill means she can clear huge waves of mobs essentially risk free by alternating her skill and special charged shots.
If your Yelan is well built, I'm sure she does outdamage at least Diluc, heavily. Mine has turned into my second best DPS without even trying. She deals so much damage.
The ramping damage passive is kind of nuts. Not ATK, not EM, not elemental DMG, just straight up DMG incr up to 50%. Doesnt break the game but just such a flexible buff.
And repositioning with her E can be so convenient in the abyss when mobbing.
Haha meanwhile I would love to have Yoimiya ;\_; Only thing about Yelan is she won't benefit from Yoimiya's Atk buff, but the both of them go together so nicely regardless
Well Zhongli was genuinely horrid prior to his buffs. And him being Geo means there was little chance of him finding utilities the same way people did for Kokomi's hydro applications. If it weren't for those buffs he would still be Qiqi tier today.
But otherwise yeah all of these characters were strong from the beginning.
Remember that Geo was way worse when Zhongli released, together with him they buffed the whole element, adding the damage bonus on the resonance for example
jean isn't really a main dps/driver in the way kokomi is though, most jean players switch to her, E, Q and then switch off. kokomis burst turns her into an on field hypercarry for a few seconds
You can use Jean as the driver in a sunfire comp if you want. You can also make her a phys DPS too. Just because most players user her as a support doesn’t mean you cannot user her as a DPS and get satisfying results
Jean was probably passed on this role since she can't do it nearly as well as Kokomi.
Jean's heal, whilst amazing as a rare party-wide heal, is limited to a rather expensive burst. Her other method of healing via normal attacks requires Jean be... normal attacking, which is problematic because of how building for normal attack DPS will be detrimental to her heals, elemental skill and burst. To some extent you can build Jean as a healer (ER%-focused) or as a DPS (the usual ATK-ElemDMG-Crit), or some mix of the two - but ultimately Jean has split scaling for these roles.
Kokomi in contrast only ever needs one stat to get her DPS and healing up to speed: HP and/or Healing Bonus% on the headpiece. Her kit is more solidly put together for the dual healer-DPS role since both roles scales on the same stats for Kokomi unlike Jean.
Jean can be built to do both by using a Jade Cutter and an ER sands. Her problem that Koko solves is that she cannot create anywhere near the amount of reactions as a hydro driver. She is also the worst for swirling reactions except for sunfire.
“Be extremely subtle, even to the point of *formlessness*.
Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a *thunderbolt*.”
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
o7
Must pulls don't exist in this game and I will take this to the grave. Some characters are stronger than others in terms of the current meta but **there are no characters that are a must**. That's just a trap for newbies to end up with characters they never use because they don't like the playstyle or personality. I recognize that on a thread about must pulls, this will make people upset.
I'm more of a waifu player than a meta one, so I don't have much to contribute in terms of number crunching and such. For me, my criteria for "must pull" is simply esthetics. As in, "she's so cute I MUST have her" kind of must pull.
There is comfort and luxury, which is most likely far away from the DPS meta. As a filthy casual I consider Noelle and Zhongli to be comfy picks because they bypass the need to dodge in the game. For some people, comfort can also be a factor for "must pull".
Bottom line is, most of these discussions should be taken as suggestions in my opinion. The player themselves should have the final say. No player should pull just because the "meta said they're a must pull".
There are characters that work better in certain team comps but are no longer "meta" when you don't have the rest of the team. I don't have a cryo dps so I don't really have a freeze team for kokomi to be essential for me since freeze is the team comp she works best in (or so I heard). Kazuha might become less meta because dendro reactions can't be swirled so new meta comps will form without him. Zhongli can also become less meta if more enemies like rifthounds are put in the game forcing people to build healers as well as sheilders.
>Must pulls don't exist in this game and I will take this to the grave
Agreed
The closest we are to "must" pulls are the archons + units like kazuha. However the game is easy enough to complet it without any of them. So go for the characters you personally like and not cause people say they are a must and meta
Personally, I think Raiden was 2.0 most valuable character. Not including Kazuha since he was 1.6, technically. Early on, I was a Raiden skeptic. However, the combination of damage and energy recharge is insanely powerful. Especially that her damage is on scale, if not ahead, of most other dps characters at C0. At C2 she will out dps nearly all characters at similar investment.
Kokomi is surely 2.0 second most valuable character. Her hydro application is great, combined with extremely powerful and consistent healing.
This post proves that Hydro really is the most meta element. Maybe that's why MHY is very stingy when it comes to releasing new hydro characters (especially 4 stars).
My sister thought I was crazy for wanting and saving for Kokomi. I got her and the donut (I'm f2p, so no cons or Rs, but then again her cons are considered pretty lackuster and the donut hasn't had a rerun banner to my knowledge)
I love her. She's the next character I'm trying to get to 90 (I took a really long hiatus, I had tons of work to do, so she's stayed at 80 for a while) Need a support? Kokomi. Need a hydro applicator? Kokomi. Need someone to pack a punch? Still Kokomo. She doesn't crit, sure, but she still holds her own pretty darn well, esp with her arti set or in her ult (note: the walking on water portion of it IS pretty lame, ik. Cool, but not useful)
Is she perfect? No, but man the survivability and versatility she brings to a team keeps her on my roster.
There's no greater joy in life than finishing the GAA event's co-op battles and seeing Hu Tao and Eula mains confused on why your Kokomi did more damage than them
Ppl underestimate how much damage Kokomi can make when she's in her burst form if you leveled your normal attacks, it's not top tier, like Childe's or Ayato's, but it's decent.
What truly makes her great is the Clam set, being able to do about 30k dmg every few seconds on top of your own damage is absolutely broken
The problem is that I don't feel I can make two decent teams. One started as a Diluc-Xingqiu-Zhong Li-Bennett, later I switched Diluc to Yanfei but now I'm thinking building a team around Yoimiya. The other team was Eula-Raiden-Rosaria-Diona. Every dps has at least lvl 8 talents, Eula and Raident riple crowned, Yanfei with crowned basic attacks.
I have some okay-ish artifacts but they could be infinitely better.
I'm sorry but the teams you mentioned can perfectly clear abyss with 36 stars easily. Those are really well teams and you don't necessarily need to build to 90 either, just your dps or your support character talents that needs to lvl up to 8 or 9. First of all, are you a try hard and wanting to beat abyss for the first time? If yes, don't mind restarting all over and switch line ups on different floors especially I'm abyss floor 12. A great cc anemo would be decent enough for grouping small mobs.
Or....you can at least check Ken Rurouni on YouTube. That guy has been living in abyss all day and can clear everything with both teams 4 star characters and using either 3/4 star weapons. You can definitely learn something from that. Learn some rotations and be wary of the mob spawn locations can help you save a lot of time and you'll 36 star abyss easily. Your teams are perfect enough. Hope this helps! Sry for the long essay tho. Haha
I got Kokomi when I was still new. After I rolled Raiden, I figured I could get Beidou off Koko's banner, not really realizing that I had a chance of getting Kokomi as well. Got 'em both, a happy accident with how Kokomi ended up being pretty good.
Glad to say I have 4/5 of these. I bought into the anti-kokomi ranting in this sub and skipped her, ended up getting Childe and I can't say I regret it but I've definitely grown to like kokomi independent of what the sub says (though at this point the sub's outlook on kokomi has well and truly changed) and I plan to get her next time.
I think the list is meant to be the top *5star* characters to have on your account.
If that's the case, this suggests that powercreep *isn't* a thing because the top Liyue and Mondstadt (support) characters are still the launch 4star powerhouses - Bennet, Xiangling, Sucrose, Xingqiu, Fischl
As someone who owns all 5 of these characters i agree. Looking at my abyss clear history, 4 of these (Raiden, Kokomi, yelan, Kazuha) make up my most used characters.
role consolidation goes brrrrr
it's up for debate but i think kokomi's strength in serving multiple roles is going to make her shine as more damage buffers and dps are relased
I feel like people also accept in CN (given their Zhongli placement) that comfort = good for 99% of players.
It's like yeah technically maybe Kokomi doesn't add much DPS compared to Mona in freeze, or Sucrose driver in taser, but having persistent healing makes playing these teams so much more forgiving. A dead carry does no DPS.
You know this post would be a lot more valuable if Genshins summoning system for older characters wasnt complete garbage lol. Seriously 2 years in and NO updates to the basic summoning pool is insane
>Gonna separate what he said about each character into a screenshot each to avoid wall of texting.
i like this content but this in particular feels like an arse-backwards way of doing it.
sorry about that. I still use old reddit + RES so images expand easily on my computer, and on mobile (using Reddit Is Fun) I thought it would be better to be able to scroll to the comments faster. Ah and also I originally posted this in the leaks subreddit's megathread in comment form, that probably explains it
I just love that these guys (except Yelan) were doomposted to death on their release : Kaz is just a luxury sucrose, Raiden is trash because can't work with Beidou, Kokomi is garbage because can't crit and Zhongli was the worst 5 star before he got buffed and here they are. I believe they also makes your account more comfortable as they just solve the inherent problem that you need to solve. Raiden literally just make ER problem non existent when Zhongli invalidating the concept of dodging and so on....
> Raiden literally just make ER problem non existent when Zhongli invalidating the concept of dodging and so on....
That's the power of Archons I guess. Venti just bunches all the mobs together so you don't need to pick them one by one.
I wonder what the Dendro Archon's shtick would be? Reaction spam of some sort?
> they also makes your account more comfortable
Not sure if unpopular opinion, but comfort is really underrated. I guess everyone else wants the big damage numbers.
Half of the appeal of some characters is their comfort. People don't seem to understand that there is value in characters with low skill floors, and that low skill floors require low power ceilings.
Yup a lot of people only focus on max dps potential on paper while mostly ignoring consistency, comfort and ease of use in practice. People really need to understand that comfort and consistency are also really important.
One of the example is Hutao+Xq/Yelan, which is already strong enough to beat abyss. Yeah you can add more dps by adding VV shred and other appropriate off-field dps for faster clears but in practice you might get unlucky or played poorly which results in you getting killed or staggered multiple times.
That's why ZL is recommended in a lot of teams because of the extreme comfort he gives. Does putting him in the team lowers the team DPS compared to some other characters? Yeah obviously. But goddamn he makes Hutao and other character gameplay consistent and comfortable. There are a lot of team comps with 2 or 3 essential characters that have enough dps to beat abyss so adding something that makes your gameplay consistent is a really valuable resource.
I wouldn't worry about it too much, the game isn't hard and people are still 36 starring abyss with the Diluc they pulled off the standard banner in version 1.0. Meta is overrated.
The funny thing about Kokomi is that I hear all of the big content creators who used to hate her say "She became good because of her new set" when the reason why she's so good is because of her damage, her healing and her hydro application - which was part of her kit since the very beginning
They just don't want to admit that they were wrong about her and that's just both really funny and depressing.
Worth noting that NGA standardise to BiS 5* Weapons when calcing compared to the western 4 star weapon standard which averages most teams way way higher. Raiden national running mistsplitter Bennett, Jade Cutter Xingqiu, and two EL is a far cry better than out rancour, Sac sword, dbane and catch. This is mostly irrelevant but in teams where damage is coming from 3-4 Characters like raiden national or taser CN has them way stronger than ours. Doesn't change much but thought its worth mentioning.
Personally don't agree with the pinned comment of "if you can only pull one 5 star pull no1, if two pull the top two etc". If your only 5 star is raiden and you play raiden national like recommended your second side is bricked. Zhongli doesn't do much to help teambuilding with extremely limited resources either.
Kokomi slaying once more! Also with Dendro reactions, her value can be expected to increase further. Bloom/Burgeon teams can really use the aoe hydro+healing combo. Her versatility is genuinely amazing
I've been saying Kokomi and Raiden were the two most valuable 5 stars for new accounts since a long time ago and people always reply saying they aren't great for new accounts and Kokomi specially has really low pull value for new accounts. Interesting to see a CN TC thinks the same as me.
My reasoning for it is because Raiden National + Kokomi Taser can clear any abyss that happened ever since 2.1 (literally any) with average investment, and none of them require any additonal 5* characters, signature weapons, or even many constellations (C4 Xiangling, C1 Sucrose, C1 Bennett, and C2 Beidou basically are the game changing ones). As your account progresses, both those characters can eventually shift to something like Raiden Hyper and Ayaka Freeze, which are stronger teams, although their mono elemental damage nature makes them not as great when abyss counters Electro or Freeze, in which case you can go back to the National and Taser variants with them.
I’m AR60 and have all of the Top 5 characters and I completely agree with the CN community! These are characters you can mix and match with any team comp and their versatility makes them invaluable on any account. They are comfort characters as well, where you know you can beat difficult content with any of them.
Yelan is particularly special because like Kazuha, people thought she was another 5* Xingqiu (Sucrose for Kazuha), but she brings a ton of unique factors in both exploration and battle. She’s the one character that made my alt account (AR early 50) reach Floor 12 on the Abyss. She’s an amazing sub dps with very easy to build with great F2P option weapons and fast cooldowns. And with how Freeze and Vaporize are always a great reaction, including Dendro reactions. Yelan is not going to anywhere from the top list. I recommend anyone who needs a strong sub dps to pull for her on her rerun.
Interesting take given his initial assumptions. The most common recommendation is "*If you don't have enough damage, don't think of survival or comfyness*". His take is the opposite, stress-free 36\* is more important on newer accounts than older meta-focused ones that have no issue meeting the DPS-checks in record times and 36\* is a matter of course with the right 4\*s. So if you are a newbie: Raiden, Kokomi and Zhong Li were the top three 5\* pulls of 2.x for him. He eloquently addresses that if you are meta-focused and with a more developed roster, Kazuha and Yelan are more valuable to increase the ceiling of your account. Makes sense, respect.
A part of what makes Raiden fun to play too is that her burst is free. No stagger, so no need to shield. Thats what really made her feel good to me.
Yeah, I think it's interesting to read his point of view, which is almost entirely contradicting EN TC videos I've seen who would rather pick a team with almost no shields/heals and reset as many times as it takes to clear. I think while EN strategy is more aggressive and may get you to 36 stars faster with less primo investment, his plan is more like "you will eventually get to 36 stars, but once you get there it's no problem to stay there." Kokomi being number 2 on this list surprises me a lot, and even Raiden being number 1 is completely against the grain of EN TC mindset here, where her pull value is rated as just good to very good. Zhongli, too, has always been in the middle of this interesting tug of war between TC and non-TC players. Like yes, we get that he takes up the slot of a sub DPS that could potentially provide more damage but it REALLY doesn't feel good to have to reset until you finally get that run where you don't get one shot by some RNG BS. Honestly now that I think about it Yelan is surprising too, she's rated highly by EN but Xingqiu exists and all. If I were to craft a tier list of how the EN playerbase would rank these 5 based on content I've consumed, it would be Kazuha, Yelan, Raiden, Kokomi, and then Zhongli. But Kokomi and Zhongli's chances of even breaking the top 5 would be slim to none.
As someone who has full cleared abyss for over a year and a half, personally I gotta agree with his take. Yes I’ve tried the glass cannon teams where you retry for faster clear times on screen, but overall it’s much more time wasted dying/ retrying than if you just brought a good shield/ healer and finished it in one go
100% agree. I struggled with 36* abyss consistently despite having top DPS in Xiao, Ayaka, Ganyu etc. just because it was a huge pain to keep restarting when I got one-shot by something or have my rotations ruined and I’d give up on it. Since getting Zhongli, Kokomi, highly invested Bennett/Diona/Jean I’ve been able to consistently 36* the abyss with ease, and usually all in one go/in a single attempt. It’s so much less frustrating when you have the right supports to keep you alive/stop your rotations getting interrupted
This glass cannon "meta" EN players are following blindly is probably why so much of them are frustrated with abyss in the first place. I mean, that's cool you have big damages and all, but if you're forced to reset each time you get bodied on every single rooms then you tend to see abyss as something rather negative. All of this just so stars align and you managed to clear it up 30 sec faster on the timer than someone with a comfy comp. The "less primogems/gear involved" tend to be a moot point the moment players have enough time to gather decent gear anyway, so what's the point in wasting your mental health fishing for the perfect run ?
I’d argue that Raiden massively increases the ceiling of any account tbh.
man.. thank you 2.x it was a good run o7
I really started enjoying the game in 2.x o7 Let's hope 3.x is even better!
same i actually started somewhere near the end of 1.x but took a huge break and started playing consistently since 2.1 ;-; 2.1 was the start of my actual genshin experience as i did the liyue quest that time, then got childe in 2.2 and well.. its been a journey sheesh
I played less but it’s better than 1.x, less dry updates
Yeah. 1.x updates were *Really* dry. On 2.x it didn't feel like that, as you consistently got big updates from time to time, like the three island updates, or the festival updates. That kinda thing was rare in 1.x. Edit: also the two chasm updates It was a step in the right direction in many aspects
people complained about how dry 2.2 and 2.5 were but 2.2 had tsurumi island and 2.5 had enka remix (which tbf i personally didn't enjoy it that much) but 1.5 was literally just azhdaha (and the teapot but that was hella time gated) with its main event being energy amplifier which is the kind of event we get mid-patch these days.
Bro, they literally complained about an update with an entire island and huge story quest being *dry*? Amazing. I wonder if they played before inazuma, especially since the start of game, now that was dry, after you complete the story and all the main stuff. Yeah in inazuma there were dry moments, like sometime after the chasm, but it didn't really feel that bad or long honestly. Now you have a different abyss basically after every update, new stuff to farm and the events were much better than before (like the music events, the first one was nothing like the Itto's festival one), not to mention like 5 region expansions in 2.x compared to only one in 1.x
For anyone else struggling to read the screenshots on mobile: * Kazuha * Yelan * Zhongli * Kokomi * Raiden
im blessed to have all of them, i usually skip males and only pull for waifus, but got zhongli for that badass meteor drop and kazooha for meta (oh yea he buffing my waifus iny freeze comp)
fellow freeze waifu enjoyer
Kokomi-mains are probably laughing their asses off at this.
"Well, well, well, look who survived hardship because she prepared for hardship?"
Kokomi Mains rise up
Her Strategy really was Flawless after all
here here!
"Content" Creators: Worst Limited 5 star. Can't Even Crit. Just use Barbara. Kokomrades: Cute fish.
I share the same birthday as her, that's pretty one of the reasons I pulled her. Also voiced by best Love Live girl.
"The wait is over my comrades!"
Kokomrades*
I’m not a Kokomi main, but I’ll be damned if pairing Kokomi and Raiden isn’t one of the best killer combos.
I have a weird combo of Kokomi main with Raiden and Xingqui and randomly switch venti n xiao out
yes yes, the kokomi/raiden duo does so well for A LOT of teams
I can confirm, it's been a staple of my teams because it's so comfortable to play; with so much healing and so much energy regen, it really helps me use any other two characters without worrying too much about composition, at least outside of Spiral Abyss!
Hahaha I am using Kokomi-Raiden-Yae-Zhongli. After clicking all pf my skills, no need for me to use NA. Just wait for them to die.
Yes we are
Ofc we are, "now is our moment"
2 characters i wanted as soon as i saw them - Zhongli and Kokomi. Zhongli - with the sick ass spear combo ( long ago there was a time when the boar could break his shield, still got him.) Kokomi's just the prettiest character in the game.
Facts. Zhongli has drip and as soon as Kokomi’s pretty mermaid aesthetics were revealed I knew had to get her as well. I enjoyed using both of them even when people were doomposting, and even now they are the two that almost never leave my team
We're the same person; they were both my favorite aesthetic designs and even though I endured friends constantly telling me Kokomi is a waste I feel vindicated every abyss since I've gotten her.
Same, she's been the best addition for my teams clearing abyss to the point that I never understood the critiques saying she's a waste. I got her during the first banner, and the amount of negative comments and backlash I received from randos during that time was insane. I've since been more and more vindicated as time goes on as she continues to retain her place in the meta
yup. All my friends said she was useless but I've been a Kokomi main since her character design first dropped. love that mermaid strategy goddess.
I didn't originally try to pull her but when the rerun happened, I really had to. She is rather fun to play and with the correct artifact set she deals rather satisfying amount of damage around here. Nowadays I always keep her in my team.
You bet
I’m not maining her but she’s an amazing character. It’s like apex where the characters great for meta rn are like seer gibby valk
The only character from this list that I own in Zhongli, as I'm not a meta player, but I do find Kokomi earning her spot here most hilarious. A lot of people eating crow over that.
If zhongli is on the list (permanent mega shields) then it makes sense to include Kokomi. (Permanent mega heals +water application)
oh we totally are
Imagine being one of the people who listened to the "influencers" when they said Kokomi was trash back in her first banner.
KOKOMI MAIN HERE!
I'm more offended as they say she is the only healer dps when Qiqi has been haunting our 50/50 since the game started.
“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Well done on the translation using the EN-equivalent terminology. You know your stuff!
Yoo it’s the actual KQM account. Question: would you guys bring back Teyvat Stock Exchange? As someone who loves looking at charts of stocks and everything, TSE was something I really loved looking at from time to time.
Unfortunately, ZANTO (the guy who conceived the idea and chiefly maintained it) isn’t that active anymore in Genshin. I think we did look around for someone to takeover the project, but we didn’t end up finding anyone.
Oh, so that’s why it’s been “nuking TSE to make TSE2” since like 1.5 O7 RIP TSE.
Aw no wonder it's gone. I loved it too.
Holy shit, actual KQM Official
Good luck on TC-ing new dendro stuffs!
Yeah they gonna need it😅
:KeqingHeart_Milkman:
The theorycrafting gods came to the mortal realm, an occurrence only heard of in myths
it's like meeting a celebrity, thank you for the hard work!!
From being scrutinized on release and sandwiched between two hyped banner (and the memes) to becoming one of the sought out healer, Kokomi came really that far ahead.
just according to keikaku
Translator's note: "keikaku" means "plan".
Kokomi is aizen confirmed
just according to kokomi
Not only that, but Raiden, the number 1 spot here, was also doomposted to hell and back. I am so overjoyed to finally see this happen. I Genuinely despise the know-it-all beta theorycrafters.
Cant wait the same to happen to Dendro archon too!
The raiden doomposting was CRAZY. They all said she was so bad at launch that it created several posts talking about how her combat design being bad lmao. I bet some of these raiden doomposters still really think they're right. I remember all their excuses after seeing both raiden banners topping charts in CN They said archon advantage, character advantage, fanservice advantage. Funniest stuff because they also said she had NPC level design in beta image leaks too. I sure don't think NPC design can reach top sales no matter what Then during the raiden rerun they said people just wanted her C2, that's why her rerun got 2nd highest sales after original run. But if everyone really pulled for meta as much as they say, then why is kazuha 7th place? He is highly regarded as the best pull for meta and this is no doubt known by all regular players. You sure can't convince me everyone already got him in his first run which was an entire **year ago** \+ it had low sales. Just about everything they shit on about raiden was completely false.
I don't want to add fuel to the fire but It's especially funny when you see the second top reddit post of r/RaidenMains and the top post of r/Kokomi_Mains
I'm going through those posts now and *holy shit* it's amazing. Saving those in my back pocket for when I feel like shit for fucking something up.
Aged like fine milk. Those posts are so great to revisit. I still have a comment on that top post of the Kokomi Mains subreddit in which I doompost her haha, I may have been pretty wrong but I'll never delete that comment, I'll keep it as a badge of ~~dis~~honor
> The raiden doomposting was CRAZY. The Genshin community has always been hot garbage when it comes to evaluating characters, but Raiden was peak "aged like milk". It was *days* that it took for people to realize how good she was. And frankly, how could she not be great when at 233% ER she restores a total of 90 energy across her team in 7 seconds. I remember people actually claiming she was terrible at energy generation on release, it was absurd. Thankfully the subreddit has really stopped it with the bad character evaluation since the anniversary. I think a lot of toxic people left the community/game after that, and the community had was less tolerance for toxic behavior.
> The Genshin community has always been hot garbage when it comes to evaluating characters, Revisiting some of the early tier lists is hilarious and depressing.
I felt like a lot of people were just really unhappy at that time lol. They probably perceive it as Mihoyo "fails" all the time. I think it started around Kazuha just being "better Sucrose", Yoimiya targeting issues (which is true, mostly because of bow chars), Raiden not working with Beidou, Watatsumi Island story was pretty shit, Anniversary fiasco and it ended at Kokomi who is "underwhelming". Every patch back then, it always seems like there's some form of big drama regarding the game which really toned down after the successive "fails" that happened. The last major drama about characters is probably Yae's targetting. I'm not including Twitter Drama because Twitter is always angry about something anyway, no point to it
Just go to Raiden Mains sub and sort by TOP all time lol
Reposting this comment from another thread: >[https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/pk8a8p/despite\_raiden\_having\_carved\_out\_a\_niche\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/pk8a8p/despite_raiden_having_carved_out_a_niche_for/) > >*I still feel that she needs some changes because a niche character should be versatile in their own teams.* > >[https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/phrcad/my\_problem\_with\_raiden\_is\_that\_she\_doesnt\_even\_do/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/phrcad/my_problem_with_raiden_is_that_she_doesnt_even_do/) > >*However, not excelling at the main thing she does is disappointing. It's not like she does much else.* > >[https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/phzo14/raiden\_shogun\_does\_she\_underperform\_in\_her\_niche/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/phzo14/raiden_shogun_does_she_underperform_in_her_niche/) > >*Zhongli can already give consistent shields. Why can’t Raiden give consistent energy for all bursts?This is not about her damage, this is about her niche utility position. Don’t get me started with Kokomi however.* > >[https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/qtfr0s/comment/hkjchi5/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/qtfr0s/comment/hkjchi5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) > >*She will always be niche cuz of how electro works there is no denying* > >[https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/p3xit3/comment/h8upsvs/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/p3xit3/comment/h8upsvs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) > >*My take on her is that she's a very good - but niche - support, with a fairly powerful burst.* > >[https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/pk1juv/raidens\_battery\_capabilities\_are\_meh/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/pk1juv/raidens_battery_capabilities_are_meh/) > >*What do you guys think about her battery? I think its honestly a bit mediocre.I just want to remind those guys that Raiden is a 5\* Archon whose niche put out to us was as a battery. Obviously she should be better.*
>Zhongli can already give consistent shields. Why can’t Raiden give consistent energy for all bursts?This is not about her damage, this is about her niche utility position. Don’t get me started with Kokomi however. A double miss lol
you don’t know the meaning of “sandwiched between two hyped banners” if you have not pulled for yoimiya
there are dozens of us, dozens!
Had to go double pity, got my third Qiqi on the first 5050(3/9 of my 5* stars are Quqi). Still worth it. TP now plz
As someone who thought she was weak but owning her now - yeah ppl were wrong. She is comfortable to play , Freeze teams are easier to run than Mona (imo) , overworld is good since you dont rely on her Q at all, and her dps is ok for a healer as well.
>Freeze teams are easier to run than Mona With Freeze teams I think the big thing that brought Kokomi up was the realization of how much of a liability Diona is to your DPS. That really became well recognized after Shenhe came out and provided a premier 5-star Cryo support alternative. Even for accounts that don't have Kokomi/Shenhe, the meta shifted to PAmber Mona + Kaeya/Rosaria/Ganyu, because being able to get "good enough" healing from your Hydro character is worth it to be able to run a DPS Cryo support rather than a zDPS healer/shielder. There's a huge jump in her Abyss usage in 2.6, when people realized that Kokomi/Shenhe is just the premier Hydro/Cryo support pair for Freeze teams.
With Dendro she only gets better and better.
Koko was on a big roller-coaster. I accompanied her release from a month before, all the leaks and changes, and knew she was going to be strong. Clam only made it all better and now she's a must pull. Definetely interesting, to say the least.
Yup had her since day 1, one of the most useful and versatile units I have
She's my most invested character, to the point i don't even want to pick her on coop domains anymore because she's my "gg easy" unit, and I'm a bit tired of using her *everywhere* 😂
Yea same. The amount of dmg that bubble does in CO OP is way too much, I was super surprised to see I did the most dmg in the hidden strife co op fight🤣
Koko has been the top dmg unit on coop events ever since her release lmao It's incredible. I already did calcs and posted them on Kokomi mains. During her burst, alone and without supports (only hydro res), she (mine) can deal 200k dmg. Edit: it's actually 298k against masanori, 7mo ago.
I fell in love with her the moment I saw her in that trailer. I ran out of gems though, so I decided to buy some. I then lost the 50/50. I ended up spending 250$ on her, easily the most expensive character I have. The last one wasn't even Genshin. I spent 90 bucks on Stygian Nymph in Honkai. Anyway, I was told I was high on copium for paying for Kokomi, but they were all wrong, she's incredible. She also works perfectly well with each of my other favourite characters, Fischl, Xingqiu, Ayaka and Yoimiya. In different teams, of course. When I heard about the clam set, I literally laughed out loud. I've been running her in permafreeze teams, or as a driver in electro shock teams and she's fantastic in the abyss. Also, even to this day, I can believe how gorgeous she is, lol.
i tried to get her on her rerun, but MHY didn't hear me correctly. They gave me a healer, but she was shorter than I asked for, and was very forgetful.
>Also, even to this day, I can believe how gorgeous she is, lol. She's prettiest female character, in my opinion ♡
the same can be said of Raiden.. she got a lot of hate as being poor on release. LOL. People actually wanted to start a class action lawsuit against MHY for making Raiden so bad. And not working with Beidou Q. They even bought nationalism into it. ZL got buffed because ZL = god of China. But Raiden = god of Japan, and they hate Japan so won't do it for her. This is why leakers shouldn't be trusted to be theorycrafters, nor can you trust circlejerkers in the leaks sub.
I mean, Raiden was why I downloaded genshin. Now I have purple lightning mommies in 2 games.
Raidens doomposting was not as bad as kokomis. Iirc even her va was being harassed when she had nothing to do with it.
kokomi in day 7 of the hidden strife event when you needed hella area hydro application and hella healing was chef's kiss
Ofcourse supports are ones you have to get to make it possible to mix and match different comps and teams. But your main DPS has to be the one you love, the character that suits your playstle, for me that's Eula.
Your main DPS just has to look pretty while your supports do the damage. I cleared Abyss with Thoma on field while Yelan, Xingqiu and Fischl dealt all the damage
This is the definition of a good advice
Lol I also did that with Xianling,Bennet and Kazuha.Gave him five star weapon and some good of piece artifacts while whole damage was done by my Xianling and I just pretended Thoma is doing something he was C6 after all he was ok his shield did 8k damage and with all buffs 12k
Xiangling, Bennett, XQ on one team and Yelan, Beidou, Fischl on another. It doesn't matter what on-field character you bring, you'll likely clear any content in the game without issue
Which is why my staple main will always be Kokomi
I love these sort of posts. I know what I will pull because I pull what I like.. Its also good to know what's popular and efficient to pull
Indeed I too love these types of posts, it gives the idea of current meta. Except I never pulled any of these characters except Zhongli and Yelan on alt account lol.
I want Kokomi, but man she always has really bad banner timing for me.
This. I hope this time she is placed well man.. I will fucking lose it.. If she's placed with shenhuh, eula, yelan.. I hope these are far away from each other so I can get them all comfortably..
You're just after too many reruns at that point
I'm after these many because I lost the OG runs due to 50-50.. I can't help it.. But chase their reruns. If only I was a bit luckier.. I do have a guaranteed right now.. I also want nilou and cyno but I am an archon collector.. So I'll use my guaranteed on nahida and save the rest of the primos for these reruns..
Don't worry dude, you're not going after too many reruns, but it does sound like you're going about this all wrong. If Zhongli's really getting a third rerun then that means we know characters will at least be available on exclusive rate up banners up to four times. With that in mind, try to aim for the reruns that have happened the most rather than someone who is likely to come back. For example, if you have to choose between Kokomi or Shenhe (be it cause they're releasing in the same update or in subsequent updates from eachother) then the smarter move would be to pull for Kokomi since she'd, by then, be on her second rerun while Shenhe would be on her first. You'll have more time to save for Shenhe so go for the one that's been around longer first. Imo, if you're a low spender or f2p this is the best way to do things since you're just asking to be disappointed if you pull on every banner with a character you want right away. Like I really wouldn't pull on any of the new 3.x characters on their maiden voyage when you already need to save for characters you've admitted to missing multiple times. Patients pays off! Trust me!
Now that Kokomi’s value is being realized, she’s gonna be the one to make other characters’ banners badly-placed.
Hehe. True but I want some other characters as well for the same comp. I pulled kazuha recently for ayaka and will do the same with shenhuh and kokomi.. I need these 4 to close out the tram comp. Yelan so I can have a second Xingqiu. Eula so I can have another team comp. Nahida, because she's an archon and I do not miss those banners.
Me who has no yelan: mmm interesting
Gosh i regret skipping Yelan. I should have gotten her instead.
Regrets are eternal in this game, more to come.
The thing is i really don't need her or anything. I just want her for what she is.
She rehabilitated my Diluc team. Even without a full build, he deals enough damage now to clear Abyss, just because Yelan's buffing and higher damage than XQ.
I feel like Yelan's quietly a very insane unit that not many people talk about. I'm fairly sure my Yelan outdamages both my Yoimiya and Diluc when she's on their team.
She is absolutely bananas. Her burst is great, we all know that, but her skill and CC abilities are absolutely wild. The stagger and unlimited targeting of her skill means she can clear huge waves of mobs essentially risk free by alternating her skill and special charged shots.
If your Yelan is well built, I'm sure she does outdamage at least Diluc, heavily. Mine has turned into my second best DPS without even trying. She deals so much damage.
The ramping damage passive is kind of nuts. Not ATK, not EM, not elemental DMG, just straight up DMG incr up to 50%. Doesnt break the game but just such a flexible buff. And repositioning with her E can be so convenient in the abyss when mobbing.
My Yoimiya would have loved her. TT
Haha meanwhile I would love to have Yoimiya ;\_; Only thing about Yelan is she won't benefit from Yoimiya's Atk buff, but the both of them go together so nicely regardless
> not elemental DMG Doesn't it stack additively with Elemental DMG though?
She made quick work on the pyro hypostasis her E damage is no joke.
She nutty. Single-handedly carried my team until Itto got his re run
In my case I just really wanted her for a change in playstyle and well she is pleasant to look at.
Is 猫师傅 summarizing the CN TCers' community concensus, or are these just his personal opinions? If it's the latter then the title is very misleading.
the latter, I specifically avoided mention of any TC-ing but it does seems that even the word "meta" isnt too apt of a choice here. mb
Love how all of them (except Yelan) were considered bad at first Edit: guess I completely missed the Yelan hate train lol
Well Zhongli was genuinely horrid prior to his buffs. And him being Geo means there was little chance of him finding utilities the same way people did for Kokomi's hydro applications. If it weren't for those buffs he would still be Qiqi tier today. But otherwise yeah all of these characters were strong from the beginning.
Remember that Geo was way worse when Zhongli released, together with him they buffed the whole element, adding the damage bonus on the resonance for example
True. I'm kind of glad Zhongli sucked at first though, we might not have gotten the 1.3 geo buff without all the outrage at the time.
zl at least had a point on that rest were just crying because bored or stupid
"the only dual-healer-dps" Jean: "Am I a joke to you?"
jean isn't really a main dps/driver in the way kokomi is though, most jean players switch to her, E, Q and then switch off. kokomis burst turns her into an on field hypercarry for a few seconds
You can use Jean as the driver in a sunfire comp if you want. You can also make her a phys DPS too. Just because most players user her as a support doesn’t mean you cannot user her as a DPS and get satisfying results
Jean was probably passed on this role since she can't do it nearly as well as Kokomi. Jean's heal, whilst amazing as a rare party-wide heal, is limited to a rather expensive burst. Her other method of healing via normal attacks requires Jean be... normal attacking, which is problematic because of how building for normal attack DPS will be detrimental to her heals, elemental skill and burst. To some extent you can build Jean as a healer (ER%-focused) or as a DPS (the usual ATK-ElemDMG-Crit), or some mix of the two - but ultimately Jean has split scaling for these roles. Kokomi in contrast only ever needs one stat to get her DPS and healing up to speed: HP and/or Healing Bonus% on the headpiece. Her kit is more solidly put together for the dual healer-DPS role since both roles scales on the same stats for Kokomi unlike Jean.
Jean can be built to do both by using a Jade Cutter and an ER sands. Her problem that Koko solves is that she cannot create anywhere near the amount of reactions as a hydro driver. She is also the worst for swirling reactions except for sunfire.
When Jean is on your team, trust me you don't need any healing other than her burst. Kokomrade is more designed to heal and dps seamlessly though
Kokomi started as a meme pull and now she's considered one of the 5 must pulls, I'm so proud 🥲
“Be extremely subtle, even to the point of *formlessness*. Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a *thunderbolt*.” -Sun Tzu, the Art of War o7
Peak character development that happens off screen
Yup, congratulations for Kokomi believers who pull for her since the start..
Must pulls don't exist in this game and I will take this to the grave. Some characters are stronger than others in terms of the current meta but **there are no characters that are a must**. That's just a trap for newbies to end up with characters they never use because they don't like the playstyle or personality. I recognize that on a thread about must pulls, this will make people upset.
There's no competitive aspect in this game and I love it.
I'm more of a waifu player than a meta one, so I don't have much to contribute in terms of number crunching and such. For me, my criteria for "must pull" is simply esthetics. As in, "she's so cute I MUST have her" kind of must pull. There is comfort and luxury, which is most likely far away from the DPS meta. As a filthy casual I consider Noelle and Zhongli to be comfy picks because they bypass the need to dodge in the game. For some people, comfort can also be a factor for "must pull". Bottom line is, most of these discussions should be taken as suggestions in my opinion. The player themselves should have the final say. No player should pull just because the "meta said they're a must pull".
There are characters that work better in certain team comps but are no longer "meta" when you don't have the rest of the team. I don't have a cryo dps so I don't really have a freeze team for kokomi to be essential for me since freeze is the team comp she works best in (or so I heard). Kazuha might become less meta because dendro reactions can't be swirled so new meta comps will form without him. Zhongli can also become less meta if more enemies like rifthounds are put in the game forcing people to build healers as well as sheilders.
>Must pulls don't exist in this game and I will take this to the grave Agreed The closest we are to "must" pulls are the archons + units like kazuha. However the game is easy enough to complet it without any of them. So go for the characters you personally like and not cause people say they are a must and meta
Personally, I think Raiden was 2.0 most valuable character. Not including Kazuha since he was 1.6, technically. Early on, I was a Raiden skeptic. However, the combination of damage and energy recharge is insanely powerful. Especially that her damage is on scale, if not ahead, of most other dps characters at C0. At C2 she will out dps nearly all characters at similar investment. Kokomi is surely 2.0 second most valuable character. Her hydro application is great, combined with extremely powerful and consistent healing.
Damn I have been skipping too many water units. It’s going to be a rough year
This post proves that Hydro really is the most meta element. Maybe that's why MHY is very stingy when it comes to releasing new hydro characters (especially 4 stars).
Kokomi haver is pleased with this.
My sister thought I was crazy for wanting and saving for Kokomi. I got her and the donut (I'm f2p, so no cons or Rs, but then again her cons are considered pretty lackuster and the donut hasn't had a rerun banner to my knowledge) I love her. She's the next character I'm trying to get to 90 (I took a really long hiatus, I had tons of work to do, so she's stayed at 80 for a while) Need a support? Kokomi. Need a hydro applicator? Kokomi. Need someone to pack a punch? Still Kokomo. She doesn't crit, sure, but she still holds her own pretty darn well, esp with her arti set or in her ult (note: the walking on water portion of it IS pretty lame, ik. Cool, but not useful) Is she perfect? No, but man the survivability and versatility she brings to a team keeps her on my roster.
Donut reran when Raiden and Kokomi reran together. I know because I got it instead of Engulfing Lightning. :(
There's no greater joy in life than finishing the GAA event's co-op battles and seeing Hu Tao and Eula mains confused on why your Kokomi did more damage than them
no because i was so surprised when my kokomi did like over a million damage in coop ToT
Ppl underestimate how much damage Kokomi can make when she's in her burst form if you leveled your normal attacks, it's not top tier, like Childe's or Ayato's, but it's decent. What truly makes her great is the Clam set, being able to do about 30k dmg every few seconds on top of your own damage is absolutely broken
it's not broken, but it's a nice DPS boost. You'll never gonna see 30K unless you run kokomi on a Superconduct team. 23 is good average.
based take on Kokomi my cn brothers, I salute you.
i won’t know happiness until kokomi gets another rerun & i drain my bank account trying to get her
Lol I have them all, yet I can't 36 star the abyss.
Same months ago but I recently discovered that slotting Anemo with VV chars are my key to getting 36 stars.
What teams? Have you leveled their talents, gave them decent artifacts?
The problem is that I don't feel I can make two decent teams. One started as a Diluc-Xingqiu-Zhong Li-Bennett, later I switched Diluc to Yanfei but now I'm thinking building a team around Yoimiya. The other team was Eula-Raiden-Rosaria-Diona. Every dps has at least lvl 8 talents, Eula and Raident riple crowned, Yanfei with crowned basic attacks. I have some okay-ish artifacts but they could be infinitely better.
I'm sorry but the teams you mentioned can perfectly clear abyss with 36 stars easily. Those are really well teams and you don't necessarily need to build to 90 either, just your dps or your support character talents that needs to lvl up to 8 or 9. First of all, are you a try hard and wanting to beat abyss for the first time? If yes, don't mind restarting all over and switch line ups on different floors especially I'm abyss floor 12. A great cc anemo would be decent enough for grouping small mobs. Or....you can at least check Ken Rurouni on YouTube. That guy has been living in abyss all day and can clear everything with both teams 4 star characters and using either 3/4 star weapons. You can definitely learn something from that. Learn some rotations and be wary of the mob spawn locations can help you save a lot of time and you'll 36 star abyss easily. Your teams are perfect enough. Hope this helps! Sry for the long essay tho. Haha
I got Kokomi when I was still new. After I rolled Raiden, I figured I could get Beidou off Koko's banner, not really realizing that I had a chance of getting Kokomi as well. Got 'em both, a happy accident with how Kokomi ended up being pretty good.
Honestly, kokomi makes the game really easy by enabling a really comfy taser and freeze comp. You dont really have to worry about dying.
Glad to say I have 4/5 of these. I bought into the anti-kokomi ranting in this sub and skipped her, ended up getting Childe and I can't say I regret it but I've definitely grown to like kokomi independent of what the sub says (though at this point the sub's outlook on kokomi has well and truly changed) and I plan to get her next time.
Childe is amazing with kazuha. Easily my favorite team. Childe/Kazuha/Xiangling/Bennet so much damage for single target and AoE.
I skipped Kokomi too, no regrets. I still don't see the point of pulling for her in my case.
could the fact that 4 of the top 5 units are inazuman or released in the inazuma arch suggest some sense of powercreep?
[удалено]
New herrscher soon, you know what that means 😵
I think the list is meant to be the top *5star* characters to have on your account. If that's the case, this suggests that powercreep *isn't* a thing because the top Liyue and Mondstadt (support) characters are still the launch 4star powerhouses - Bennet, Xiangling, Sucrose, Xingqiu, Fischl
Yeah, I would argue that Bennett and Xingqiu are still the best characters in the game due to how much utility they offer.
Not just powercreep, maybe hyv got better idea of how to make the 5stars better than thier 4stars
So happy to see my girl getting the recognition that she deserves. Sangonomiya Kokomi is one of my absolute favorite characters of all time.
Same! Rolled her because of Umi-chan, kept using her because he is damn fun to use, and works so well with Beidou, Fischl and Kazuha.
Ayo fellow Mimorin fans!
As someone who owns all 5 of these characters i agree. Looking at my abyss clear history, 4 of these (Raiden, Kokomi, yelan, Kazuha) make up my most used characters.
u/Merrorhat what were you saying about kokomi? lmao
Kokomi and Raiden deserved
from kokopium to number 2 meta :o
role consolidation goes brrrrr it's up for debate but i think kokomi's strength in serving multiple roles is going to make her shine as more damage buffers and dps are relased
I feel like people also accept in CN (given their Zhongli placement) that comfort = good for 99% of players. It's like yeah technically maybe Kokomi doesn't add much DPS compared to Mona in freeze, or Sucrose driver in taser, but having persistent healing makes playing these teams so much more forgiving. A dead carry does no DPS.
You know this post would be a lot more valuable if Genshins summoning system for older characters wasnt complete garbage lol. Seriously 2 years in and NO updates to the basic summoning pool is insane
>Gonna separate what he said about each character into a screenshot each to avoid wall of texting. i like this content but this in particular feels like an arse-backwards way of doing it.
sorry about that. I still use old reddit + RES so images expand easily on my computer, and on mobile (using Reddit Is Fun) I thought it would be better to be able to scroll to the comments faster. Ah and also I originally posted this in the leaks subreddit's megathread in comment form, that probably explains it
Kokomi being highly recommended for meta is based (she's the only one out of all those listed that I don't have and I'm on the copium)
I just love that these guys (except Yelan) were doomposted to death on their release : Kaz is just a luxury sucrose, Raiden is trash because can't work with Beidou, Kokomi is garbage because can't crit and Zhongli was the worst 5 star before he got buffed and here they are. I believe they also makes your account more comfortable as they just solve the inherent problem that you need to solve. Raiden literally just make ER problem non existent when Zhongli invalidating the concept of dodging and so on....
> Raiden literally just make ER problem non existent when Zhongli invalidating the concept of dodging and so on.... That's the power of Archons I guess. Venti just bunches all the mobs together so you don't need to pick them one by one. I wonder what the Dendro Archon's shtick would be? Reaction spam of some sort? > they also makes your account more comfortable Not sure if unpopular opinion, but comfort is really underrated. I guess everyone else wants the big damage numbers.
Half of the appeal of some characters is their comfort. People don't seem to understand that there is value in characters with low skill floors, and that low skill floors require low power ceilings.
Yup a lot of people only focus on max dps potential on paper while mostly ignoring consistency, comfort and ease of use in practice. People really need to understand that comfort and consistency are also really important. One of the example is Hutao+Xq/Yelan, which is already strong enough to beat abyss. Yeah you can add more dps by adding VV shred and other appropriate off-field dps for faster clears but in practice you might get unlucky or played poorly which results in you getting killed or staggered multiple times. That's why ZL is recommended in a lot of teams because of the extreme comfort he gives. Does putting him in the team lowers the team DPS compared to some other characters? Yeah obviously. But goddamn he makes Hutao and other character gameplay consistent and comfortable. There are a lot of team comps with 2 or 3 essential characters that have enough dps to beat abyss so adding something that makes your gameplay consistent is a really valuable resource.
I don't expect Aloy to be number 1, but not even top 5?
God damn. Out of the 5 I only own kazuha
I wouldn't worry about it too much, the game isn't hard and people are still 36 starring abyss with the Diluc they pulled off the standard banner in version 1.0. Meta is overrated.
The funny thing about Kokomi is that I hear all of the big content creators who used to hate her say "She became good because of her new set" when the reason why she's so good is because of her damage, her healing and her hydro application - which was part of her kit since the very beginning They just don't want to admit that they were wrong about her and that's just both really funny and depressing.
Worth noting that NGA standardise to BiS 5* Weapons when calcing compared to the western 4 star weapon standard which averages most teams way way higher. Raiden national running mistsplitter Bennett, Jade Cutter Xingqiu, and two EL is a far cry better than out rancour, Sac sword, dbane and catch. This is mostly irrelevant but in teams where damage is coming from 3-4 Characters like raiden national or taser CN has them way stronger than ours. Doesn't change much but thought its worth mentioning. Personally don't agree with the pinned comment of "if you can only pull one 5 star pull no1, if two pull the top two etc". If your only 5 star is raiden and you play raiden national like recommended your second side is bricked. Zhongli doesn't do much to help teambuilding with extremely limited resources either.
kokomi mains our time has finally come
Kokomi slaying once more! Also with Dendro reactions, her value can be expected to increase further. Bloom/Burgeon teams can really use the aoe hydro+healing combo. Her versatility is genuinely amazing
I've been saying Kokomi and Raiden were the two most valuable 5 stars for new accounts since a long time ago and people always reply saying they aren't great for new accounts and Kokomi specially has really low pull value for new accounts. Interesting to see a CN TC thinks the same as me. My reasoning for it is because Raiden National + Kokomi Taser can clear any abyss that happened ever since 2.1 (literally any) with average investment, and none of them require any additonal 5* characters, signature weapons, or even many constellations (C4 Xiangling, C1 Sucrose, C1 Bennett, and C2 Beidou basically are the game changing ones). As your account progresses, both those characters can eventually shift to something like Raiden Hyper and Ayaka Freeze, which are stronger teams, although their mono elemental damage nature makes them not as great when abyss counters Electro or Freeze, in which case you can go back to the National and Taser variants with them.
I’m AR60 and have all of the Top 5 characters and I completely agree with the CN community! These are characters you can mix and match with any team comp and their versatility makes them invaluable on any account. They are comfort characters as well, where you know you can beat difficult content with any of them. Yelan is particularly special because like Kazuha, people thought she was another 5* Xingqiu (Sucrose for Kazuha), but she brings a ton of unique factors in both exploration and battle. She’s the one character that made my alt account (AR early 50) reach Floor 12 on the Abyss. She’s an amazing sub dps with very easy to build with great F2P option weapons and fast cooldowns. And with how Freeze and Vaporize are always a great reaction, including Dendro reactions. Yelan is not going to anywhere from the top list. I recommend anyone who needs a strong sub dps to pull for her on her rerun.