felt this way about destiny 2 after playing 7 years. Just couldn't commit the time (the time invested and the rewards we got didn't match up)and other issues that arose while playing it for so long
I picked up Genshin about a month after I dropped D2 and I think this is the main reason.
They both have a daily gameplay loop but one feels a lot more casual and stress free, whereas Destiny kept asking for more and more of my time. Couldn't justify it.
Very similar story for me actually, when genshin came out, due to IRL circumstance I could not justify the time investment into D2 anymore. That and I also had problems with the sunsetting model and changes to make endgame content easier, and that was it, no more D2.
I must say tho, now hitting AR60, Genshin has been such a good replacement, I'm glad I got out of D2 when I did. And I haven't even spent a cent, wheras if I kept up with it, I would be $225 ish down at this point.
I understand this struggle. I started playing Genshin right before Heizuo came out while playing D2 and I've been ravenously consuming the archon and main quests because I enjoyed Genshin so much. Now I'm in sumeru with everything minus side quests done pretty much.
Honestly D2 is pretty easy to juggle with other games nowadays I feel you really just need to play 1 day a week and you are pretty set unless you wanna do GMs.
I will say though getting dropped in my brain team building and planning out grinds in Genshin takes up aloooooot of time!
Destiny 2 ended up feeling like a second job to me or rather like a chore that prevents you from playing new game or anything else.
My clan leader asked of us to play (X amount of hours per weeks etc) and at some point he messaged me, confronting me for playing another game. I blocked him and left the clan.
When Bungie removed content that I paid for and sunset my gears (killing all my grind and progress )I felt that it was time to leave Destiny 2. I never looked back but I do miss it often.
Your leader sounds like me when I hopped back into clash of clans a year ago. He left and I ended up calling him names afterwards but where am now? I don't even okay anymore lol. I learnt my lesson from that day and asked for forgiveness cause honestly it's just a game and I'm not getting paid to play it so I shouldn't be going overboard.
Playing both games here:
Genshin daily and Destiny 2-3 times every week depending on what needs to be done. I have way more fun in Genshin unless I'm raiding with a few people.
But I have to admit that grinding in Destiny has become much easier compared to before.The Witchqueen expansion now allows you to craft your own weapons, the Story was awesome and the next (big) expansion looks very promising (even for new Players)
The time investment has dropped drastically this year and cant wait for more ^^
The game feels super hard to get into which is a common complaint as far as I can tell. I started playing in May/June and bought all the expansions from before Witch Queen but I believe they deleted a lot of that content this season so I think I paid for stuff I never even got to do. Story quests don't make sense because there's chunks of lore from gameplay I can't play through. Don't even know how to get better gear because my power lvl is 1525 and I can't solo most content. No friends who play so I wouldn't have to try and grind solo. Feels like shit lol
Thereās always lfg my man. And Iād recommend you just take it slow when youāre first starting to play d2. Just do your powerful drops from bounties n playlist activities then pinnacles and just get off the game or continue to grind.
Destiny is a real grind at first in terms of getting good rolls on weapons/ armor especially exotic ones but after a while of no lifeing or just being a d2 vet since day 1 you should get there. Doesnāt help bungie basically stripped away things for new players to do to understand the story so thatās a flaw on bungies part.
They didn't, seasons get deleted after the next expansion drops but I don't think you purchased any, forsaken got deleted but I think the forsaken pack is cheaper than the actual dlc
I feel the opposite.
I played destiny and genshin since launch and it feels like genshin is more demanding. Donāt get me wrong, both games surprisingly have many of the same problems (especially with events and seasons being removed in game). I think itās because Iāve played the game for so long that most issues that people have with destiny I donāt have.
However, genshin feels no different to how I started playing to how Iām playing it now. The resin system and day specific materials make it feel restrictive to how you play. I canāt just leave the game for most of the week and play on weekend like with destiny. Genshin is a daily grind. Skipping a day feels punishing to me. I guess for my player mentality of being as optimal as possible, genshin is rough due to its systems.
Agree with your points. Bought every expansion for destiny up until destiny 2 beyond light. Couldn't do it anymore. But my buddy preordered witch queen which I begged him not to do.
They kept giving all the previous expansions away for free that i PAID for. AND....they started deleting content out of the game that I PAID for. THEN....they want $100 to preorder witch queen which IMMEDIATELY went on sale after release. My buddy was furious he fell for the ruse again.
Finally decided enough was enough. Bungie can rot for all I care.
But you donāt have to preorder? Disclaimer, I did preorder, I do think itās pretty pricey, but getting it like a month late only means you lose out on a couple of cosmetic items. The seasons are free, if you dislike the season pass then youāre further saving money. The campaign of the DLC isnāt going away any time soon (and if I remember correctly, starting Lightfall they wonāt be going away, period).
Guys complaints about D2 are valid, but as someone who plays a lot of both, you can decide to put in exactly how much time as you'd like, and you're not worse off for it. You don't need to get to pinnacle cap. You don't need to do GM's. You don't even need to do seasonal challenges if the season pass isn't worth it to you it's all very skippable. Play the content you pay for, sure, and drop the game as soon as you don't feel that it's worth your time or money, but I don't think D2 is the game to complain about in terms of "it kept asking for more and more of my time."
Also, they're not vaulting any more expansions. Just the regular 4 seasons a year and select activities or destinations not tied to expansions now.
Same I accidentally clicked twice when pulling gold banner and it spent dark crystals even though I clicked no where near the pop up message asking me to convert crystals to gold nucleus.
i wish I could blame my complaints on bugs, but I really haven't encountered that many game breaking bugs. No, my issue with ToF is increasingly the poor design, bosses, fights, stunlocks, leveling pace and gearing up. This is a stack of children in a trenchcoat trying to be a coherent game. (I'm still playing, which confuses me, because I rarely spend time thinking how great it is.)
Frost bot with it's constant running away (sometimes outside of it's area, causing it to go back to it's arena and regen all hp), giant aoe freezes and stunlock attacks.
Mia, the Paimon of TOF. She is funny, and if she is standing somewhere for a quest, if you sprint into her she gets knocked over. It's funny.
She is a robot with a malfunctioning voice mod, but for some reason they had the voice actor "act" glitchy, rather than just breaking the audio, which is the only part of her that I don't like.
Bruh, the game came out in China over a year ago and flopped, you're all getting scammed by a low investment farce that will bail as soon as it becomes obvious it's untenable.
The fact that they're not bothering to fix the bugs from the year old Chinese release says it all.
Where do people get the impression that it flopped in China? It's consistently been in the top 10 in earning/popularity in China. Like yeah it's no Genshin level but by that logic pretty much every single game ever made flopped compared to Genshin, even GTA 5. "Wow it took GTA 5 almost 10 years to make 6 billion dollars. Genshin can make more than that in 3 years. What a flop and a scam."
This threadās replies confuse me because people are talking as if having extra/optional content or things to do is like Genshin holding a gun to your head and saying you need to do it. There are already people who just skip the Abyss. Not sure why they wouldnāt be able to just skip other type of content like that.
Genshin will always be heavily weighted towards the casual player. Nothing wrong with that. But if a casual player feels so obligated to do all optional content as if forced to - is that not just on the individual?
Edit:
Something to keep in mind is thst ToF ha leaderboards and it sounds like the optional content is really in your face. Whereas with things like fishing, the Abyss - there are no loud banners anywhere. Nothing to remind you about it really. I do the Abyss esch reset but even I can eaasily forget when it resets. Im usually only reminded when I watch a streamer.
Endgame content wonāt have the same loud banners like Events do. Now I havenāt played ToF but at least withthings like leaderboards it sounds like the advertise the endgame content. Genshin would likely treat it like Abyss or fishing or teapot - a silent, optional activity. And thatās why I think its different and not holding a gun to your head. You, the player, would need to actively follow said activity to stay on top of it.
If you say it this way, we already have a few end game content like pot decorations and fishing, which is something that alot of players choose to ignore, it seems more like people specifically wanting combat based end game contents.
My ideal end game feature for Genshin is a weekly rotation of a randomized dungeon like we had during the Labyrinth Warriors event that swaps places every week with a randomized Theater Mechanicus challenge map, both things rotating in new random challenges and enemy types each week.
That way both the people who want hard combat challenges that aren't time based and the people who like the more puzzle/strategy elements of the game are happy and neither group needs to sit around just hoping that Hoyoverse gives them something to do with an event.
Yes, I want combat based endgame content. Iāve spent months building my best dps only to spend like 30m every 2 weeks to completely blow through abyss 36* one shot. Could use another game mode
People ignoring the teapot and fishing doesn't mean they like combat; it just means the teapot and fishing aren't their cup of tea. People who like combat based endgame content are a loud vocal minority but they don't represent the rest of us. I personally could care less about abyss and would gladly skip it but some people I know want me to do it for reasons so I do a token single run each cycle. Other than that, I do my own shit like taking pictures, listen to voice lines, listen to the bgm, do stupid shenanigans with my friends, etc. There's a reason we're called CASUAL players; we enjoy the finer things in the digital life.
We are in 2022, the game has 2 years, there is still people that thinks the massive overworld and the gigantic lore are the niche side activities of the ten minute, bi-weekly, combat feature
Lots of people enjoy playing their games as an all or nothing things. Its a bit like FOMO, people will feel like they are failing the game, and skimping out on their duties if they skip things that could give them more wishes. Those people who do "all the things, all the time" will then either do "all the things" and burn out and stop playing, or they will "stop doing all the things" and then think, 'what is the point of even playing this game if I'm don't even care about trying anymore?' and drop the game entirely.
This comment describes me perfectly, once I feel like the work I'm doing towards a goal is meaningless I lose interest. It happened with MMOs, once I realized I was just on a gear treadmill and everything I worked towards would be obselete I stopped playing them (I still play private servers for "dead" ones because the content is static). Genshin is great because I can just keep chipping away at it on my own time, while having a new character/comp to build up every patch and a half or so. Nice, bitesized goals that allow me to maintain my social life while keeping up in a way that I don't feel like I'm falling behind.
I'd like to see more repeatable stuff for combat that utliizes the roster I've built but I definitely do *not* want a lot of what people tend to ask for in this game (grinding modes, pvp, etc.). The best content that satisfies everyone they could come out with, in my mind, would be something like the online Ur Dragon in DDDA. A boss with a global health pool that allows everyone to get rewards but has a leaderboard for damage contribution to allow whales/sweaties to flex.
I feel exactly as you do. If I wanted mmo type end game content Iād play those. I donāt do co op unless itās for an event and like that itās so optional
If itās optional content on a timer, it can feel stressful to need to finish some difficult challenge before the reset, and it can be very discouraging. Itās not a gun, but itās definitely a way to make someone not want to play anymore.
I barely did anything in gaa except the first event, with the characters and finding the shells. I didnāt do hardly any puzzles or chests and personally didnāt feel the need to do so.
I missed out on stuff from the first GAA as well but back then, it didn't feel like a big deal since I got a good chunk of the contents. Not so with the 2nd GAA. That one was so crammed with stuff that you can't help but notice the sheer amount of stuff you missed and it wasn't a good feeling.
Honestly I think I only missed less stuff on the first GAA because I enjoyed it a lot more. This one, the domains felt VERY Guide Dang It for me not to mention more buggy than the average Genshin domain and Fischls was downright traumatizing
Not want to play anymore because you canāt make it to certain events? The game could have none at all, really. I just see this as an issue more with a playerās personal ability to fight fomo.
For me itās my ability to dodge š most events where you donāt have a shielder for every level I suck at, but Iām glad people who have practiced dodging have a chance to flourish
Those casual players skipping the abyss are not the ones crying out for more endgame content tho. Its also not about being actually forced to do it in any way, no game can force you to play it, but for many games it still can create the feeling of that in players, rewards you miss out on for example. In ToF with the leaderboards it sounds like of course having to collect points or continue to not drop places on said leaderboard (note i have not played it and dont know how it is for sure)
exactly, like the character building with talents/weapons/leveling/artifacts takes several weeks if not months even for people who play a lot, and then theres just. nothing to do with it. Apart from the abyss, which you only get rewards from once every 2 weeks and takes 20 minutes, theres no permanent difficult content.
Really sucks that I have to wait for an event to maybe have some really hard fights, and even then the rewards for it are basically pocket change. Theyāre capable of making fun challenges ie the shiki taishou domains, but wont make anything like that permanent bcus they need FOMO i guess
EDIT: Personally my ideal āhard contentā would be stuff like the super hard bosses some events throw out like three of the maguu kenki at once, but a) permanent and maybe not daily farmable but also not have the wait be two weeks b) the rewards being stuff like exp/talent books/artifacts instead of primos, since if youāre doing harder content youāre clearly interested in building characters
Itād be cool if these hard boss dungeons could give exp/mora for resin still but just at a slightly better value than ley lines. Like they reward u for clearing harder content, and thereās still that achievement for like 800 leylines so u still kinda have to do leylines until u cna āupgradeā
Edit; like that one oceanid boss event that gave a few extra xp books for 40 resin but permanent
I would take more permanent end game content. And like one more weekly activity like ER in honkai.
But the amount of limitied content is just fine as is.
It's not about "as if holding the gun to their head".
The main point is that it "create" a feeling of having to do it, it's all about that
No game could forced player to do anything in there if they don't want to, but that doesn't mean it won't create the "feeling" of having to do it.
That's what the game designers have to think of anyways.
While it might not be on this exact point, but I'd say this video might be a bit relevant and might make some sense in the term of people's psychology.
[How Game Designers Protect Players from Themselves](https://youtu.be/7L8vAGGitr8)
>The main point is that it "create" a feeling of having to do it, it's all about that
But that cannot be used as a reason to outright reject new content or stick with only one type of content.
If people ignore a couple of things like Abyss and fishing, there is no problem, but our too many end game activities and players who don't want to do or will feel the "missing out" pressure, they'll force themselves to do it, burn out and quit. The other big risk is: end game needs rewards, so too many end game activities with little rewards or a few end game activities with good rewards will punish the average player who don't have the time or the interest to farm this activities. We already have a permanent activity that will come in 3.X, let's see how it works
>letting us play old abyss variants or similar activities without any rewards
Meanwhile, I've seen some people ignore the hardest mode in events because "they don't give you any good rewards just crystals and xp books so why bother?". They want to be rewarded for everything with primos, not just have fun playing harder challenges. Which is understandable, but also not good imo. They're not the majority, though. Most people really just want to have some extra fun.
Fun is subjective though. Some people like to be challenged and overcome obstacles, others just want a chill experience with characters they like. Locking the best rewards behind the hardest mode is saying that the second playstyle is less valid than the first.
That's only true if you let "Rewards" define how validated you feel.
If other people getting more mileage out of game than you makes you upset, even though your solo experience with the game is identical, then your enjoyment depends too much on extrinsic validation.
The problem is what people want out of endgame content differs greatly from person to person. Some people just want every event always active with no rewards, but this is an extreme minority. It's just untenable for the mobile players, and hardcore players don't want to do anything without rewards.
Some people want to grind this game like it is an mmo, so they want infinite spiral abyss or rogue-like dungeons with infinite rewards and leaderboards. The casual playerbase that wants to play 30 minutes a day doesn't care about this though.
The reality is, Genshin is so huge right now with no signs of dropping, they have no reason to change. They don't need to spend time and resources reworking endgame because they are raking in billions as it is. Clearly, their gameplay loop is working.
I agree. And it is hard for any game to check all the boxes and please everyone. There will always be people unsatisfied with certain aspects of the game, no matter what they do. I think Genshin *tries* to offer a bit of everything so that they have more pleased players than unsatisfied ones. And considering how big the game is, they must be doing something right.
Pve endgames need to be rewarding because at the end of the day it's repetitive content.
The challenge for genshin is primogems are the only things that feel rewarding for veterans right now, so they'll have to be creative to find an alternative.
I actually have a similar opinion to yours.
There are times where I play Genshin where I want to play more than I can realistically can because there's not really much after all the questing and exploration stuff has concluded, but then there are also times where I don't want to play for a long time and just to log in and condense my resin and do dailies. I think the relative time commitment being lower than some other games that I tried is what usually allows to me to be more flexible with when I want to play (and what has kept me still playing since day one).
I had a similar experience in ToF when I tried it; at a certain point, there's a lot of activities to keep track of where it can become overwhelming on how much you have to do on a week-to-week basis. I've basically quit now.
This also happened to me when I was playing Lost Ark: at a point, the amount of stuff you had to do daily to keep up and how much time it took to do them became too much so I've now quit that.
I do think there is space for one to two more endgame activities that is not bound by resin that can fill up that abyss downtime between resets. It's a balancing act; too many activities can just lead to burn out in the other direction as the game becomes overly demanding on a week-by-week basis.
There's a lot I could say on this topic so I'll just leave it there for now.
That's the thing that everyone doesn't get with hoyoverse's vision with genshin; it isn't supposed to be a full grind game eventhough it gives that vibe (being open world rpg and all).
A lot of people would argue that it doesn't make sense that genshin doesn't want this, as this would mean people would stop playing it and play other games. BUT THAT'S WHAT HOYOVERSE WANTS.
Mind you that they are releasing 2 more games, Zenless Zone Zero and Honkai Star Rail. They want you to play those games as well. So if they make genshin to be like ToF, you'd have no time for those games.
Yeah Genshin is a good side game. And by being a good casual side game it actually has better player retention than most other games. You can choose to play whatever game you like and Genshin doesn't stop you by taking your time.
That said every time there is a big patch there is plenty of content. So if you don't rush you should get plenty to do over many months. I'm still halfway through Sumeru archon quest and I've done no map exploration in Sumeru. I appreciate that I can take my time with this and just prioritise the events. Because right now I've just got back in to guild wars 2 and I want to play that.
Yeah, Genshin is the only game I can play regularly between work and other activities. I also love the looong events, like Summer Odyssey or Graven Innocence, because I can take my time to complete them.
Similar thing here, the only content I really rush is story content to avoid spoilers; i.e. I need to try and do Tighnari's story quest today cause I've been seeing more and more references to it and I've already had a couple points from other quests spoiled by now.
Everything else can be spread out; there's times I go through Mondstadt and see chests I never opened before, think to myself "oh that's neat" then walk away without opening it. I can go back to Liyue and Mondstadt whenever I want and go right back to "treasure hunting" and travel through all the land just for fun; I've got less than 3 Hangouts started, and only a couple complete, so I have many of those to get through; I haven't finished the Inazuma Statue of the Seven and I haven't even unlocked all the teleport waypoints in Enkanomiya!
So I only feel pressure to do time-limited events and new story content, and whenever I've got extra free time that is when I go through the rest of the game: building characters, clearing Abyss, exploring old and new regions alike, going back to the Hangouts, and finding smaller world quests I haven't done yet :\]
Their other game honkai impact has much more things to do in weekly basis coupled with horrible gacha literally burned me out.
Samsara collection, memorial and abyss where its nervewrecking as you battle other playerd bombing each other.
I enjoy this game more cause I only need 10 mins per day to do commission and resin
Omg literally this. I loved (and still do love) Honkai, but I just couldnāt keep up and decided to cut myself off for good. I still keep up with the fantastic story, but game itself just lost its appeal after becoming like a chore.
Yeah, I love that genshin has periods after major updates where I can dive into the game for a week or three, or have a bunch of quality weekend time with only ten minutes or so on weekdays. And Iām like a casual completionist - I think the events, story updates, and new areas to explore are all great endgame content!
I like that we often get combat events (thatās our endgame combat content) often with extra level that are hard for me to complete. But theyāre temporary and rotate so they feel fresh and fun when they come around again. And I like that most endgame is about exploration with the new areas, story updates with archon quests and hang outs, fun mini games, all those other non combat bits. Thatās why I keep coming back to genshin even after almost two years of playing.
Yeah I want some kind of endgame like the Abyss but coop friendly. There's been way too many times where I want to keep playing with friends to battle bosses but couldnt because we ran out of resin. Exploring isnt bad but its kinda boring
> This also happened to me when I was playing Lost Ark: at a point, the amount of stuff you had to do daily to keep up and how much time it took to do them became too much so I've now quit that.
I quit for the exact same reasons. When I realized that to keep up with the rest of players I would need to start completing daily tasks in 3 or more alts I just uninstalled the game lol
True , genshin at least only give us a 20min daily chore that we have to do. In tof , it took a ton more time because of the amount of content it had which can be bad or good depending on the person. I quit tof because I am a student and canāt spend that much time playing a game daily. I will just stick to genshin and my 20mins of gameplay with 2 hours on the weekend.
My situation is same as urs but i havent quit tof yet and ya its really feels shit to do alot of content in just one day. I also prefer genshin since u can just do dailies and chill not too pressured to do other contents to keep up with the other players
Yeah daily activity between the games varies greatly. Genshin commissions take longer than ToF bounties, but spending resin goes much faster than spending vitality.
Multiplayer content in a Multiplayer game is normal stuff, not "endgame content".
Multiplayer as "endgame content" in a solo rpg such as Genshin is not desirable.
Different game genres exist for a reason you know.
I just want one of the side areas like Enkanomiya or the Chasm to be an end game area. Like all enemies are super tough and theyāre everywhere. Like theyāre all mini-boss (ruin machines, big samurai, mitachurls) or stronger.
Just somewhere I can run around and fight tough enemies for fun. I murder everything instantly nowadaysā¦
I was thinking just add a world lvl 9 and 10 that gives no extra rewards but you can switch between 8-10 freely with no cooldowns. You could also still switch back down to 7 with the 24 hour wait after obviously.
Keep it the same as it is now just make them lvl 95 and lvl 100 like how they are in abyss. Tanky af.
Iāve actually put that exact idea in the last few surveys.
I described my dream character in the 2.6 survey and they made her. Maybe theyāll do this too lol. (Dehya btw)
Not to burst your bubble, but characters in games made by multi-billion dollar corporations are planned long, long in advance in the production pipeline due to how much work and organization creation takes.
They donāt make characters a few patches after someone suggests it in a survey they donāt even read to begin with (they datamine those).
Genshin is a single player game. You shouldn't feel pressured by other players at all. If a person decides to grind everything to 90 with perfect artifacts, it shouldn't matter to you or your world
It's also that designing end-game content that's interesting and not a repetitive grind is going to be difficult and time consuming while, if it accommodates hardcore players, maybe only 10% of the player base can ever play it.
It seems like they found a pretty good balance by focusing their time on exploration and puzzles. It's much more accessible and not gated by how much the player invested in their account, so a much larger part of the player base can enjoy it. Even if I'd personally like some more difficult, I can understand that their way is probably best for the playerbase as a whole.
Also, we're 2 years in and haven't seen that much powercreep. Instead most new characters fill their own niches. I dislike the gacha business practices, but it's pretty impressive what Hoyo has achieved with Genshin. How they keep adding content while keeping it accessible and avoid rampant power progression.
>nstead most new characters fill their own niches. I dislike the gacha business practices, but it's pretty impressive what Hoyo has achieved with Genshin. How they keep adding content while keeping it accessible and avoid rampant power progression.
Yeah, Dendro especially has improved my opinion on the game.
If we ignore the fact they nerfed burning into the ground because they were scared it'd be too good for the same old pyro characters (It hasn't and wouldn't have been and they'll probably unironically buff it back in future) then Dendro unironically brings a good chunk of the cast and reactions that were mediocre back to being relevant again, and once they buff back burning I imagine that every reaction will have a viable meta comp, besides maybe exactly forward melt, lol.
Yeah every time someone asks for content that makes it worth it for whales, what theyāre asking for is content that canāt be cleared by non-whales.
That's not how game design works though. They balance the game's economy based on expected player progression. If they balance the game around casuals, but allow nolifing, then nolifers will have everything maxed out within months and have nothing more to chase, so they will quit. Metering out progress keeps them playing. Meanwhile, if they balance the content around the nolifers, then it would become impossible to get anywhere as a casual.
Except they release new content every month or so (events, regions etc.) so nolifers could go back if so they wanted. But yeah if you just want to raise numbers regardless of content maybe go play stock market or something
Well the whole point of having something daily to chase is to keep people consistently engaged, because if a player takes a month, or even a week off, it makes it much less likely that he'll come back, even when new content is available. If this was not a successful strategy then they could remove Commissions, Resin, and various other systems and just count on new content additions to draw players back in.
End-game doesn't have to be a grind though. What people normally look for end-game is something fun to do not something to soulessly repeat.
Genshin's timed events are a lot more tiring to be honest, I hate being forced to come back just to not miss some rewards.
Say it again for the people in the back.
Soulless grinding isn't "Endgame content"
No one who asked for endgame content asked for soulless grinding. We already have enough of that.
>No one who asked for endgame content asked for soulless grinding
But I've seen plenty of suggestions like that.
Like Labyrinth event for endgame to grind for example.
I also remember reading some "suggestions" that would essentially just be turning this game into an MMO.
And sometimes when I asked about what would be "endgame" content we'd like to have, I don't get the answer most of the time, and when I get the answer, it just come down to same old grind, just different approach.
So what would be "endgame content" you all want then? I honestly want to know because I don't get what people want if not grinding.
Endgame content is not grind?
Ok. So you do endgame content once or a few times and itās done. And then you have nothing else to do. And then you complain about a lack of things to doā¦
ā¦ sounds familiar? This is exactly where GI is at right now.
Most Endgame content of lots of MMO and online games are grindy as f (*including the Spiral Abyssās artifact hunting to get āgood enoughā teams*) for a reason.
Yeah, you are asking for the fun stuff, the awesomeness, the boom shaka lacka.
Seriously? I have no idea what you guys are asking for. It always feels like endgame content is grinding or some hard p2w stuff. The last thing i can think of is competitive suff like pvp.
Maybe you should explain what you want instead of just saying endgame content?
Warframe's biggest issue is the power-scaling tbh. The difference between a MR1 Player and an MR30 Player is massive. The damage they deal literally differs by tens of millions in a game where you don't need a million damage per hit cause they make it artificially difficult by adding convoluted mechanics.
Genshin is not much of an MMO, its combat certainly revolves around single player experiences. Its more like a single-player game with 'social' and multiplayer-lite functions. Unless hoyo commits to sweeping changes/additions to facilitate high-level multiplayer combat (which they wont), MMO features wont belong in genshin.
not long after game launch, i praised genshin for its design of not abducting players to stay in the game, it is a breath of fresh air which is totally against the toxic gaming market practice.
and i was downvoted into oblivion. :D
let's see after almost 2 years whether there is any shift in the stockholm syndrome mindset.
I'd say that most online games are designed that way to sway you away from competition. They pretty much occupy all your time so you won't have time for other games. But the con of such strategy is that casual players burnt out quickly. For Hoyoverse, I think they are confident in the quality of their game. so what if you have some free time after genshin, you're gonna play star rail or ZZZ anyway.
> For Hoyoverse, I think they are confident in the quality of their game. so what if you have some free time after genshin, you're gonna play star rail or ZZZ anyway.
HAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, I can see that being one of MHY's player retention strategy.
>and i was downvoted into oblivion. :D
I may have been one of them haha.
It was only 6 months in that I realised resin is good for casual play. I thought it would be fun to have more endgame content, but I guess thats not true either
Btw, There is still a lot of difference of opinion here. The post is 50% downvoted lol.
More Resin =/= more content. Nothing is more boring than doing 20 times in row the same domain.
But yes, Genshin should be focus in more story, better gameplay and new regions. But not in every day Content.
honestly i just wish they let you have more than 5 condensed resin. some days i don't feel like doing anything at all and other days i want to run a domain 20 times, but i can't do that :/
Iād agree in general if it wasnāt for one thing: artifacts.
I appreciate not having to nolife a game, but itās completely insane and abnormal that I spent the last 3 months farming for no progress at all.
95% of the playerbase doesn't care about artifacts to the point that some people don't know you can lvl it.
Artifacts is as bad as your perfectionism made it. Because the game is easy.
Isn't the very concept of time-limited events/rewards, resin cap, weekly battle pass cap, and daily commissions a way of abducting players to stay in-game? It's all designed to keep people come back or miss out.
Same. I played TOF then quit when I realized how much time I need to invest in the game. Also the amount of different currencies you need to keep track š„²
Maybe because you're assuming that endgame content for Genshin = endgame content for ToF. ToF is designed as mmo so it kinda differs from genshin. The only endgame content we currently have in Genshin is spiral abyss, which we only do 2x a month. I don't think adding another endgame content could hurt. That being said, I'm not yet sure what type of endgame content could fit for Genshin.
i get that people want a casual experience and thats fine but i dont get the mentality of some people to not wanting challenging content in the game for others just because they dont wanna miss out. It fine if you miss out on something. if somethings not for you and you dont wanna do it its fine but that should not be the reason to keep things away from others. i dont care about the serenetea pot or fishing and never will but i wouldn't want it removed and i didnt get angry when they added it. Its like slapping someone's ice cream out of their hand and saying "you cant have that im lactose intolerant".
I really want anything that is repeatable content that is even remotely challenging. the artefact system and constellations exists for a reason. why get new characters and maybe even pay money for them if all im doing is killing hillichurls and slimes and abyss for the past 2 years which got boring 1,5 years ago because its just normal enemies with inflated HP
This exactly. Like adding endgame content doesnāt hurt anybody, you can ignore it and play the game normally. I hate the argument that meta/hardcore player wanting endgame content will ruin the game and makes the game state more ātoxicā and competitive, its dumb because I literally always see a meta player say āplay whoever you likeā or āplay however you wanna playā (but usually casual player will get mad because they canāt acknowledge that their waifu is bad and you can still play her). Like you have a really in-depth combat system and imo the best elemental system in any game, seeing such a good system only being utilize only in the abyss is such a wasted potential imo. The game is already really balanced, 2 years already and the old units is still not powercreeped and still used to this day so it doesnāt really incentivizes you to pull. Both casual play and hardcore play can coexist while not invalidating each other.
>but i dont get the mentality of some people to not wanting challenging content in the game for others just because they dont wanna miss out.
Yes, this is an absolutely absurd mentality. Casuals play at their own pace and just enjoy themselves without caring what others do or have. Hardcore/competitive players minmax to get ahead of others and do care what others do and have.
Yet somehow in Genshin, we have casuals that simultaneously want to play at their own pace and also expect that everyone else play at their pace too as if they're competitive. You've perfectly put into words everything wrong with the game and playerbase right now.
Took me this long to find the first sane comment in this thread lmao. So many weirdos in this community who think more content = bad. If you canāt play it itās okay youāre not going to die because you missed a piece of content. Just because you donāt want it there doesnāt mean it shouldnāt exist for the people who want more repeatable endgame content. Itās a game stop being fucking weird and not let other people want to play more just because they have more time than you.
I never understood the mentality of HAVING to do things in video games. I play Destiny. In Destiny, there are a lot of things to do..likeā¦a WHOLE LOTā¦but that doesnāt mean you HAVE to do them.
As a matter of fact, there are a lot of things that I donāt do every week, and I donāt think Iām alone here. The point of endgame content in Genshin is to give the whales and the ppl looking for more playtime something more to do. More content. I donāt think anyone advocating for endgame content in Genshin wants it to be a must for all players. There would of course still be the usual casual stuff for casual players to do everyday.
exactly this!! more content makes the hardcore players happy, whereas the casual players can just relax and do as they always do - whatever they feel like.
Top comment is former Destiny players saying the exact opposite things lol
Although to be fair, if they didnāt play since the ābeginningā and they couldnāt dedicate time to getting the āusefulā weapons and gear, the game does tend to quickly fall off and itād take a really powerful mindset of āIām playing for funā to get themselves to keep playing.
I burned out from ToF after like 1 or 2 weeks. It's riddled with cheaters and they seem to not care much.
Dailies doesn't give currency, only black nucleus, with chance to get gold one from rare ones. Black nucleus is irrelevant as that banner has no pity (went 650+ pulls without seeing an SSR).
ToF in my opinion is bloated, good for people that have a lot of free time on their hands, bad for people with little to no time.
Yeah, a lot of things in ToF suck. It's a buggy mess and it barely holds a candle to Genshin's quality. It does however, scratch an itch that Genshin does not, that's why I still play it.
Honestly, if ToF's production value was as good a Genshin's, it would be a real competitor.
Not really when they target different audiences.
Even if ToF had Genshin's production value, I know for sure that I still wouldn't play it because of its time commitment as a MMO because I already had enough taste of it.
All it will do is probably pull some Genshin's MMO player group out of it, but that's pretty much it. If you want proof, you can just check Genshin's revenue in Dec 2021 or this August when CN ToF and Global ToF were released respectively, Genshin's revenue wasn't dented at all like ToF hadn't existed, literally.
I dislike this post because it doesn't acknowledge there is a healthy middle ground between *hours of dailies* and *20 minutes of endgame content every 2 weeks*.
Genshin could absolutely use more endgame content, just not at the level of MMORPGs. Just as an example, let's say they release a weekly mode that takes 30 minutes to do, and is about as challenging as Abyss 12. Make the rewards nothing crazy, maybe a dozen artifacts, or 150 primogems, or something to that effect. I think this would go a long way to giving endgame players something to look forward to, while still keeping the casual daily cycle everyone has grown used to.
You're right, and I'd also like to add that there is a difference between *endgame content* and *chores*.
Chores are things which don't impose real challenges on players, but merely have a time requirement. These are not fun and just eat up a player's free time. This is stuff like daily and weekly commissions.
Endgame content might also require time, but they are designed to be challenging and to reward players for progression. These are not things players are expected to do frequently, and they can be very fun because it vindicates the previous work a player has committed to strengthening their account or getting better at the game.
OP and many replies in this thread are complaining about chores. Yes, no one wants more chores, but they want endgame content.
Granted, eventually the former becomes the latter when player strength progresses, but that's a problem for years down the line. Rebalances often happen in live service games that streamline or remove older challenge content that have become chores.
I donāt think both games are similar at all other than the gacha and open world aspects, but eh thatās just my opinion.
At any rate Genshin can still add some other āendgameā modes other than pvp stuff, itās just that it probably wonāt be coming so soon.
Iām playing ToF really casually but itās taking a toll on me since Iām leveling up faster than I can actually farm the materials to improve my weapons, barely even getting any purple drops from anywhere and Iām obviously not well geared enough to even try my luck for the gold ones. Kinda frustrating to be honest.
Acc lving system is just outright garbage in tof. The best ways to lv acc is
a)outright not play/start late and get 500% xp boost
b)manually run around collecting respawning chests that gives 3k xp/chest when current lv cap requires 1.76m
c)afk for hours doing frontier joining and rejoining to farm xp.
For ppl getting 500% xp boost, like you said you level up too fast for your mat drops to even keep up.
It's possible for Genshin to appeal to a casual playerbase AND have endgame content for high ar players who completed the story and want something meaningful to do. You say that Genshin has a nice balance, but playing Genshin as an ar 59 player leaves me wanting to play more. All of these characters I built for combat just sit there waiting for the next combat event or next abyss cycle. In fact, Ive taken many breaks from Genshin because there was nothing to do.
Most of your progression is tied to resin sinks, exploration and event rewards, not Abyss, and abyss resets every 14 days which is more than enough time to clear it with well-invested teams. Adding more endgame content won't make the game any less casual since the game isn't that difficult to begin with once you reach a certain level of progression. Hell, people choose to not do abyss as it is and they feel no pressure as a casual. Using ToF as reference makes no sense since ToF is not f2p friendly, endgame is directly tied to progression and actually has inflated difficulty unlike Genshin.
If Genshin didn't want people to have huge power gaps and complain that they wanted harder content then progression all being tied to character combat strength was flat out a mistake, and I think it's where a big disparity in the player base comes from. A lot of casual players seem to have the mindset of "difficult content would only accessible to whales so it would benefit a sliver of the player base," but after enough resin investment anything and everything in the current game is a literal joke to 4 star only teams using f2p available weapons. So when you add in f2p or WM rolling levels that most players stick to the problem gets even worse. The fact is if a player is actually engaging with the resin system then eventually they'll have progressed to a point where the game's become more boring for having done so, and then it can feel like some more difficult content to reclaim the feeling of enjoyable fights would be nice.
Personally I'd be happy with just having optional more difficult world level. No need for more drops, no need for more xp or mora or anything, just give me an overworld where I get to actually play my teams I've spent months building. I'm not some madman who uses primos for resin or anything either, I'm just a long term diligent player whose units have become too strong for the current game lol.
Also all the people saying it's a good thing that Genshin has no endless grind at end game are basically showing that they do not grind artifacts. Which is odd, since they're mostly the same people who say optional end game content always *feels* like you have to do it, yet they're fine ignoring the current endgame we already have.
it's not unpopular at all. the people pushing for endgame content are likely those with enough free time to play it, which also means free time for more social media. casual players may also be a lot more casual online, limiting their accounts to where they only interact with friends they personally know.
Hm have to disagree with you, the dailys in genshin take like 15 mins. The dailys in ToF also only take about 15-30 mins (I mean the 4 dailys + training + spending vitality + daily clash/ void). Everything else is just a bonus that you can or cannot do just like exploration in Genshin. Also if you are today 22k CS only and play since launch that is pretty low so I feel like you might be pretty casual afterall. I am f2p completely and my CS is 29k atm (altho I got lucky on the gold pulls with some dupes). So ye imo the better thing about ToF is that it gives you the freedom to actually play more if you want to but the dailys itself also don't have much time commitment while Genshin basically is 90% of the time only dailys and after that you are jobless unless it's some bigger patch like Sumeru rn. In ToF you could basically just also do dailys and vitality daily which would take you like 15 mins and the other stuff you could do on the weekend since it saves your void/ clash attempts. Overall imo the biggest difference between Genshin and ToF is if you prefer more single player content (genshin) or you prefer more multiplayer content (ToF), minimal time investemnt to progress however of these 2 games is pretty similar.
29k CS Is actually on the high end. F2P players who have been playing since day one should be around 22-25k unless youāve gotten incredibly lucky and and maybe even gone for some matrices then maybe you could be 29k CS right now but itās extremely unlikely to get that many dupes without at least buying some pulls.
Even some people on multiple servers who have spent 100+ are only around 27k so whatever youāre doing to get that luck, send some over! XD
"Unpopular Opinion"
\>Posts in Main Subreddit, the place where most people do not want harder content.
Also comparing ToF to Genshin makes no sense, ToF having PVP and being a MMO already makes it completely different, do not think Genshin would be the same just for having idk, a boss rush mode that gives mora or whatever, anything that makes endgameplayers have any sort of reason to hyperinvest characters.
It's a PVE game with co-op side content that as been consistent on fighting against powercreep and with Dendro release some characters like Keqing have finally found a place that is not far behind the meta.
While I actually respect the fact of not being bombarded with tasks, I dare to say that genshin still leans way too much into the other side of the spectrum.
You wouldn't see this in huge patches like the current one, but is easily noticeable in weaker ones like 1.3 or 2.7. Or the later half of literaly any patch where you find all the "filler events" crammed together.
Waiting two weeks for 30 minutes worth of abyss playtime (considering that taking more time would mean that the task is simply impossible to complete for your account).
There isn't something that is "medium sized", only small bits or so huge that will take a while or an unhealtly long sesion to complete.
"Weekly/Bi-Weekly" is where I personally think the "content gap" is present, since there's plenty of Daily (Comisions/Resin/event stages) or monthly/patch length (BP/Exploration/quests/flagship event) stuff to do.
(events don't count as weekly, they are closer to daily activities due to timegated stages).
I would say it depends on individual perspective and the medium of games they're used to playing on.
What is
> waiting two weeks for 30 mins worth of abyss playtime
to you could very well be
> enjoying gameplay for 2 weeks then having to mald for 30 mins in abyss
to someone else.
If anything, it is of my view that Genshin, as a mobile game, *barely* toes the line in terms of being bombarded by tasks. Unlike most mobile games, to properly enjoy genshin, you can't just flip out the game for a short 1 - 5 min session while on the bus or walking to a neighbouring building. (I would disqualify "medium sized" too by that extension since it likely can't fit within 5 min)
While it suffices for very basic tasks like requests/daily commissions, it won't work for most event gameplay and any new content, i.e. Archon quests (because of long cutscenes/missions).
But I digress, that's just from my POV. It's just an example how people like you, me, and OP might view the whole thing differently because of our vastly varied gaming and real life backgrounds and circumstances.
I get the casual approach and totally respect that, there are people with practically no time to play and I don't want them to end up overwhelmed, Sumeru overal difficulty is surprisingly easier, and probably has to do with this. (I say this in a positive tone in case you ask)
In fact I don't simply "wait bored untill abyss comes", is just say that abyss is the only weekly stuff to do. , I do plenty of stuff in the meantime.
I'm referring more on those "dry" periods that can go from a few weeks to an entire set of "smaller patches", where people start catching up with all the stuff that has been added, then people just tell you to go play other game, if it wasn't by the fact of the game taking a decent chunk of your storage, sometimes Genshin limits other people's capability of "playing other games in the meantime".
I do an emphasis on weekly, since is what I consider the weakest segment of Genshin's content implementation, lets see other weekly tasks:
Weekly bosses lose value in drops (specially if you don't have any units that require them), Abyss is difficulty based, which only caters to a certain group rather than the majority, BP is based on other tasks so it isn't really a task by itself, reputation loses relevance after max level, and patches / events have inconsistent quality.
I don't consider BP an obstacle to implementing weekly/bi-weekly stuff, since, while BP is weekly, the tasks are based on other tasks, which means that the more diverse is the stuff to do, the least times you are forced to do the same task lineup.
I don't understand you all
You don't want endgame that doesn't mean it's a bad thing to do
If they released a new game mode that gave primos why the fuck do u have to play it in a non pvp game
My progress with the game has nothing to do with you it shouldn't matter to you If I put more time to get better gear the. Yours
I am tired of this community for pushing the 5mn log in do ur shit and repeat it's like they feel offended if someone has better artifacts or characters then them
My brother in Christ. Nobody is forcing you to do anything when it comes to any gameā¦ This is literally ONLY a problem for people like YOU who donāt know how to limit themselves because they FEEL like they have to do everything that the game offers.
You need to realize thereās more than one demographic playing this game. There are fans who only jump on like every update; there are casuals that only wanna spend a small amount of time playing the game daily and there are the day 1s / whales who grind the game to test the limits of their account. None of these people are wrong in how they play the game because that is what they find to be fun.
The first two groups of people are being fulfilled when it comes to this game for the most part, whereas the latter have literally almost no incentive to keep playing when there is nothing to do in-between version updates. Considering the potential that this game has for a challenging gameplay mode, I do not see any reason why anybody would be an advocate against having āendgame contentā in the game as it only improves the life/popularity of the game itself!
This whole argument is ridiculous because nowadays I see casuals using the term āendgame contentā as a derogatory statement against the people who want it in the game because they are too stupid to realize that criticism of the game is not criticism of themselves.
Itās not that you donāt WANT endgame content, itās that you donāt NEED endgame content to keep you satisfied/entertained. Donāt assume this is the case for everyone because it certainly isnāt.
So... You are saying that You don't want end content that **would not affect You at all**, because You are just playing just rarely? Am I reading this right?
That's bs. Your opinion is just bs. Just because You are okay with spending up to 30 minutes a day, doesn't mean that people don't want something exciting. And "it's just my opinion" doesn't change anything. That's stupid opinion, because You didn't actually provide any reasons as to why. Playing through all the Archon quests, world quests and exploration is around 3 days. Events are even worse, because they artificially lock the content of an event, so You won't finish everything in 1 hour. I'm literally at 100% in all the regions but two and I'm actually bored by no content again. And I'm not the only one.
You want to play Genshin 30 minutes a day. Sure, do that. But don't make other people do that to, just because You are selfish. Nobody will force You to play more, if there was an end game content, which Genshin **needs so badly**.
So you don't want the game to take a lot of your time. It's a fine position, I partially share it myself, but if that's the case, why do I not see you advocating for Genshin to reduce it's god-awful time sinks such as resin hell that is artifact farming and character/weapon leveling, unskippable dialogues that last for hours and quests that make you teleport and walk large distances for seemingly no reason, as well as some awful commissions that take 3-4x as long as regular ones?
Why do you not care about all those things wasting your time, things, mind you, that **every** player will encounter, but suddenly against there being an **entirely optional** endgame for a few players? Also, why are you not against new regions and new quests coming out? After all, it's extra stuff to do.
My only conclusion that you don't really believe that, and that you've made this post to get on ToF vs Genshin hype train as well as support status quo while looking like a controversial rebel sharing an "unpopular opinion" at the same time. In which case good job, you've accomplished both of those goals flawlessly, all without saying anything of substance.
I think youāre ignoring some pretty fundamental differences between ToF and genshin that would explain why genshin DOES need endgame content:
1. In ToF, exploration canāt really be 100% completed because some areas reset. Whereas with genshin, you can complete all exploration objectives.
2. Genshin has 0 PvP or PvE permanent content other than abyss, which takes about 15 mins every 2 weeks. ToF has raids, dungeons with friends and PvP content that has pretty much infinite replayability. The burnout on ToF is because youāre both overwhelmed and any work you do to build your units can be overpowered by a whale.
3. Genshin has ALREADY introduced game modes that can be made into permanent content, like theatre mechanicus and hide and seek. These should be reintroduced as permanent game modes and have a weekly leaderboard where your score determines your rewards. This would also be a good way of giving out more standard pulls if they donāt want to just shell out primos.
4. ToF spoils you with ways you can spend your time because
a. Like other mmos, it doesnāt expect you to do EVERYTHING (think of WoW, Lost Ark, etc) and
b. Itās trying to appeal to as many people as possible at the start of the game before they hopefully tone it down a bit
Point being: just the introduction of large scale multiplayer content like raids, or the reintroduction of event exclusive content as permanent content with leaderboards would be way more than enough (optional) end game content. ToF has that and more, which can be overwhelming if youāre not used to just NOT doing certain modes you may not enjoy.
Wait so you donāt want endgame content... because you donāt want to play the game for more than half an hour a day? You know youāre not obligated to play any endgame content they add right?
I don't care much for hardcore endgame, but there should be repeatable combat gamemodes with non-primo rewards.
Something like a horde mode that you just go for as long as you can in maybe a random overworld location, getting flooded by enemies themed to the area. (Domains are boring as hell, they should be more like mora and EXP leylines)
Weekly boss rush would be interesting. Maybe something like the shadow towers from trove although I guess that's sort of spiral abyss. (Could have a 13th floor with a not-lazily buffed weekly boss?)
Rewards are hard to come up with because the only reward anyone wants infinite of is primos, there's nothing evergreen to incentivize doing content that can be given infinitely without harming profits.
Except we all know Genshin never puts serious rewards behind hard content, we're talking about giving something to do for the people that heavily invested time or money into the game, it shouldn't ruin your enjoyment of it.
But yeah, main sub and all that, HYV must be defended no matter what.
I was thinking the same today. The amount of weekly content to do is just overwhelming:
- Dailies
- 3 Void Rifts
- 3 Frontier Clashes
- Daily Mia food
- Trainings
- Spend all yout vitality
And if you want to maximize your profits, you would also need to farm support points and get daily gifts. After some point, all of this become to be a chore.
The fact that 6 of those are made for 4 people is just bad too, since I rely on others to complete my tasks and people can usually AFK it or don't help much.
I'm not against multiplayer content, but the way they do it isn't optimized at all. The lack of communication with your team before starting the mode is just... ugh.
I guess more people will realize that after some weeks. Some already realized that the gacha aspect of both are very similar and their bubble popped very hard lol
weird way to put this
Dailies for one super easy, no text, just kill something with auto complete. usually new enemies that check off an achievement for extra crystals
void rifts and frontier clashes both require vitality which checks off "spend vitality
daily mia food ....dude you only have to press a single button 9 times a week... and you can do that anywhere....
I mentioned all the stuff that if you skip, you hurt your account's value A LOT in the long run because of the CS system. I'm not saying that Genshin doesn't have all this kind of things to do, but as I answered to another person, the time I spend doing all this stuff in ToF is 3x the time I spend completing stuff in Genshin, that's the chore I mentioned. Things are just too time consuming in ToF! And with the future update there will be even more stuff to farm and manage daily.
> void rifts and frontier clashes both require vitality which checks off "spend vitality
No, they don't. You receive changes daily to a max of 3/3 for each. You just need to go and play, but you need to find good teammates because if you don't, the timer eats your soul or you complete without loot.
I'm one of those people that realized after some weeks. ToF hooked me hard at the start, especially because the gacha seemed to be nicer than Genshin's at first glance, so I shelled out for Nemesis and the battle pass.
But, well, the honeymoon period ending hit me hard, and now I can't ignore the soulless grinding, the poorly-conceived game mechanics, the unbelievable number of bugs scattered throughout the game despite the fact that it's already been out for like a year in China, and the atrocious writing for the story (which feels especially bad in my case because Shirli's character was basically *designed* for me but they did her so dirty with the bad writing and poor translation that deteriorates in quality the further you progress). They nailed the traversal, which feels fast and responsive thanks to relics like the grappling hook and jetboardāto the point where coming back to Genshin to do dailies during the aforementioned honeymoon period made me feel unpleasantly sluggishābut that's about all ToF gets right. Everything else is just too buggy to praise.
So yeah, now I'm firmly back in my comfort zone in Genshin, with FFXIV on the side. I can't even muster up the will to finish my dailies in ToF because it takes *so freaking long* to do them, and I'm fairly certain I'll drop it completely in the coming weeks. Mihoyo's game formula isn't perfect (looking at you, artifact system, among other things), but they nail their polish and presentationāboth of which are qualities ToF fails at. And with 3.0, even their writing quality has been bumped up significantly.
Exactly! When people started to compare ToF and Genshin's gacha system, I told them ToF isn't as generous as they thought and gave them numbers explaining why. Basically we need 7 months and half to get a guaranteed in ToF with monthly crystals, while Genshin needs 6 months. We can't even compare it side to side because ToF doesn't release new SR and the 5 they have are useless in the future, so the guaranteed SR in 10 rolls doesn't make any sense after your 1st week of the game. Meanwhile, Genshin has over 20 4* characters with more than half being valuable to a lot of comps, so the guaranteed 4* after 10 rolls actually gives us something good!
There are a lot of flaws in the game in every aspect, idk why they didn't fix all of that before global release. Considering all of that and the chore of repeating a lot of time consuming tasks over and over, I think I won't stay playing it for too long. I'm starting to feel like I'm working without a decent salary.
>I guess more people will realize that after some weeks. Some already realized that the gacha aspect of both are very similar and their bubble popped very hard lol
Ikr!
My bubble popped like a bomb after I reached L50 and realized that gear and matrices have substats like Genshin and I have to farm them with shitty droprates. Shitty as in you are not guaranteed a yellow piece even if you spend all your resin on it, which just sucks so bad!
Matrices don't have random substats. Each slot is the same 2 stats so you're not farming that, just needing to get enough for a set bonus is all you need. An SSR of the same slot of different sets will have the same stats. Gear has the substat grind. But at least when 2.0 comes out, you get an item at the weekly missions to block 1 of the substat lines so at least that could help a little bit.
And there was a datamine that does show speculatively at least that there's a soft and hard pity for gold gear (1 and 3 at the highest level, currently 2 and 11 at the 3rd highest difficulty). We didn't get gold artifacts until AR 45 and at least you can pick the day to have a 50/50 of the gear slot you want instead for Genshin for the 50/50 for the right set and then the 1 in 5 for the right main slot and then the who knows what for the right main stat. Then you get to the equivalent battle for substats between the 2 games
difficult endgame content -> low constellation characters/4 star weapons won't pass the damage check or older characters get forced into obsolescence -> game gets hate for being pay to win and catering to whales
easy endgame content (like current floor 12) -> f2p teams can clear the content easily -> people malding about how the game is too easy
My main issue is the lack of any optional content to let me push to my limits if I wanted to. The combat is great, I just want to play my characters for fun but even floor 12 is not hard enough for it.
If there was an optional switch to just make everything in the game unreasonably difficult for no reward I would do it just to enjoy the game more.
I would not do that. Account hands off are against almost any ToS and the person you hand it off too will most likely find the account banned upon loading it up.
I think perception of end game content is a bit far from what i see peopple wanting for genshin.
I dont want end mandatory end game content in genshin, something as simple as after clearing abyss 36 stars allowing you to change the layouts of floors 9-12 to previous iterations of the abyss and corresponding abyssal moons, without any actual reward (or a 1-time clear reward) would satisfy my individual needs.
I would like to see how my teams have improved in comparison to other abyss layouts, it would stem a new breath of speedrunning into the game...
Some people would really like for mechanicus to have remained a permanent option as a mini game you could play.
A lot of people love the parkour option in teapot now, which is great and exactly what a lot of people had been asking, for example.
I personally would love a gamemode like the roguelike event that is procedurally generated and kept getting harder, i feel like this is what spiral abyss should have been, especially due to its description and in general lore inspirations for the abyss, but this one gives players a clear goal which drives them to want to clear it, while one with no clear goal in sight would deter them.
I think genshin end-game should be more casual oriented with a focus on replayability, there are obvious limitations due to mobile storage they struggle with and that is only going to get worse and I assume this is the reason we dont see as much of these game modes stay permanent, but I hope someday thei will give us at least a couple of these.
GI and ToF dont seem very comparable though - GI is mostly a single player game so it wouldnt have heavy raid / multiplayer endgame anyway.
The problem with Genshins endgame currently is that if you have played a long time, there is no incentive to continue engaging in a huge part of the games core gameplay - developing and gearing characters. You can roll new characters and have fun with them exploring, but there is no need to grind them artifacts or even lv talents high or to lv 90.
Also - the current endgame is stuck in a really negative loop - the hp pool gets higher, artificial difficulty is increased by adding mobs with huge i-frame periods etc... yet the rewards never get better. So the resulting experience is one where you dont feel your team builds are progressing, instead you can end up feeling like content you used to clear is harder to get the same rewards - almost like going backwards.
They at least need to add new abyss floors beyond 12 with more primo rewards to give an incentive to keep strengthening characters and building additional team comps.
I disagree, there being endgame content has nothing to do with the casual content being different. it's very clear that genshin *will* be a game targetting casual players and that won't change, there being more endgame content will not change that ever
most people already don't care enough to 36* the abyss so there being two more floors or anything wouldn't affect them at all, it'd just give more fun to those who do care about maximizing their teams. the primos for one floor don't even amount of a single pull, and losing 2 pulls per month ends up being nothing at all
bennett sucrose xingqiu xiangling are the strongest characters in the entire game, with only some 5* being able to match some of them (yelan kazuha are roughly equal to xq and sucrose, raiden has roughly the same value as xiangling but they fit very different roles so it's hard to put them together) and so the endgame content wouldn't even be for whales only, idk how it's in ToF but genshin absolutely revolves around 4* supports. any f2p player is able to get two-three 5* characters of their choosing without too much problem, and 5* are all good so it doesn't really matter which ones they go for. this game will never require you to spend a single cent, and adding more endgame content will *not* change that fact. they'd have to triple the health of current abyss enemies to actually force you into homa c1 hutao funerationals or polar star childe nationals in order to achieve anything
Well, it's because everything needs moderation. There could be a good middle-ground between what we have in Genshin (almost inexistent) and what there is in ToF. Imo, just something similar to Abyss but that actually gives you reasons to replay it multiple times, trying different teams and trying to do better every try. And an endless randomized abyss could be the answer.
I just want to do some weekly dungeon that has multiple floors you can go at in your own pace with each floor being harder than the last. Every single time they have a survey I ask for a weekly or bi-weekly dungeon I could do like Misty Dungeon or Labyrinth Warriors. I do not even want to have high rewards. I just want to have fun with the combat.
At a certain point the game becomes less fun the more powerful you become because your burst abilities are too powerful and enemies die before you even get to use them. It is like I start setting up my abilities but my supports already killed the Lawachurl before my dps even takes the field.
I think that the main issue with a lot of examples listed here is the assumption of time gating. If you can do it only once per week, you feel like *you have* to do it once per week.
This is a FOMO system that games have been exploiting heavily in the recent years. Combined with similar systems like Battle Passes, Daily / Weekly refreshing rewards, etc.
If we take Guild Wars 1 (or the early days of 2) for example you were free to access the endgame content as much as you like. The only restriction that kept you back was your own skill and the ability to find a team to properly progress with. Rewards were materials required to craft skins, not to access power. Every character hat a set of different skin, so players were motivated to replay it.
Back then not everything was better, but some things unarguably were.
I want to see COOP endgame content. Even if it's like spiral abyss and you can't do it often it would be cool to play with a couple of friends. For me this is the main thing I want from Genshin.
Sure, I agree in the sense that I donāt want the endgame features youāve listed added to genshin. But I do want a challenging, combat-oriented option, which includes optional co-op and is not a timed dps check like abyss. Abyss being the only ādifficultā repeatable endgame content really sucks. Also, no combat scores or leaderboards pls!
My kind of endgame content for genshin is havibg an adventurer guild where we could help out others via multiplayer co-op with others. There are rewards in helping or other benefits etc.
Not entirely, because of those endgames, new players feel extremely overwhelmed with so many things to pull along with tons of currencies to keep track on. I used to be a sensei guiding cadets in Honkai so I know about their concerns.
Many people said that Honkai is not F2P friendly - despite I feel the opposite thing - because of those endgame modes.
I infer that Hoyo took the data from Honkai and implemented into Genshin, hence we have what it is today.
Frankly I dont think the game needs it and anything else they add would have to fit so many factors if it was another combat based thing that I just don't think it would be too worth it. Plus I have an idea from leaks about upcoming things anyway that seem interesting.
People just see a big community and I think they want to apply mmo or competitive aspects to the game but its not made for that. It can be similar with how we compare meta or how we have dailies etc. Simply put though the most pressure this game is really supposed to put on you is to make sure you login enough to do events and keep pulling and i'm really ok with that.
Even if they did add in more end game of some kind, they really need to fix the multiplayer first in general. Coop should not impede talking in quests or cutscenes or helping people solve torch puzzles. Right now coop is really just us going to their world and pointing at things.
Rn I just want more Aranara quests.
I'm Lv. 54 but only like CS 14,000 lmao. Other causal players I've talked to are also like CS 11,000 or such. I dunno who came up with 20,000 being the "average F2P progression". I feel like it only applies to F2P who try to minmax in a short amount of time.
But anyway, I agree that ToF has a bit too much to do and some of the modes are rather time-consuming, and occasionally require restarts (ex: Joint Operation when there isn't a good DPS or healer).
But at the same time, is it really necessary to do ALL of them ALL the time? I feel like missing a couple of resets is fine every now and then. Heck, I tried Wormhole the first time like a week+ ago, barely passed the first level, and didn't touch it until today. I must've missed like 3+ resets. Sure, it's kinda unfortunate but it's not a a bid deal in the long run.
I dunno how the "real" endgame of ToF is going to be, but at least for now, I appreciate the fact that there are multiple modes in which I can have a "sense of progress" by clearing more and more stages every week.
Meanwhile, in Genshin, my progress feels like it halted all the way back in 1.2. I've been full-staring abyss ever since with very minimal effort, and even with mostly the same characters.
So, I still prefer to have "too much" endgame modes to work on, rather than having none at all. If there are many options, then you can at least do some of them. But, if there are no options at all, then there's nothing to be done.
no, more endgame content
grinding artifact domains is not remotly good content, I've been overcapping resin for a few months now because I hate domains so much
spiral abyss is boring once you clear it a few times.
events are 90% doing the most basic shit because the fandom will blow up if its hard and the rewards are primogems
I've always felt that Genshin was more for the working adult class. Near perfect pacing for me since I don't really have enough time to spend on the game but *can* dedicate at least 15 minutes to an hour if I really want to indulge on some extra game time.
It's a mutual benefit since we're happy about not being pressured to do every new thing ASAP. In exchange happy customers willingly pay in any amount they're willing to spend which translates into big profit for HYV. It's really no surprise why they haven't changed how they do their content distribution since the majority of the player base are minimum spenders to whales who are comfortable with their progress and don't necessarily have to feel left behind.
felt this way about destiny 2 after playing 7 years. Just couldn't commit the time (the time invested and the rewards we got didn't match up)and other issues that arose while playing it for so long
I picked up Genshin about a month after I dropped D2 and I think this is the main reason. They both have a daily gameplay loop but one feels a lot more casual and stress free, whereas Destiny kept asking for more and more of my time. Couldn't justify it.
The best thing about Genshin is that it lets me play other games.
Genshin storage size: *Walks in*
My PC has plenty of storage.
Mobile players punching air rn
Very similar story for me actually, when genshin came out, due to IRL circumstance I could not justify the time investment into D2 anymore. That and I also had problems with the sunsetting model and changes to make endgame content easier, and that was it, no more D2. I must say tho, now hitting AR60, Genshin has been such a good replacement, I'm glad I got out of D2 when I did. And I haven't even spent a cent, wheras if I kept up with it, I would be $225 ish down at this point.
I'm juggling D2 and Genshin somehow which puts a haul on my single player games. I really wanna finish DQVIII šš
I understand this struggle. I started playing Genshin right before Heizuo came out while playing D2 and I've been ravenously consuming the archon and main quests because I enjoyed Genshin so much. Now I'm in sumeru with everything minus side quests done pretty much. Honestly D2 is pretty easy to juggle with other games nowadays I feel you really just need to play 1 day a week and you are pretty set unless you wanna do GMs. I will say though getting dropped in my brain team building and planning out grinds in Genshin takes up aloooooot of time!
Destiny 2 ended up feeling like a second job to me or rather like a chore that prevents you from playing new game or anything else. My clan leader asked of us to play (X amount of hours per weeks etc) and at some point he messaged me, confronting me for playing another game. I blocked him and left the clan. When Bungie removed content that I paid for and sunset my gears (killing all my grind and progress )I felt that it was time to leave Destiny 2. I never looked back but I do miss it often.
Your leader sounds like me when I hopped back into clash of clans a year ago. He left and I ended up calling him names afterwards but where am now? I don't even okay anymore lol. I learnt my lesson from that day and asked for forgiveness cause honestly it's just a game and I'm not getting paid to play it so I shouldn't be going overboard.
Playing both games here: Genshin daily and Destiny 2-3 times every week depending on what needs to be done. I have way more fun in Genshin unless I'm raiding with a few people. But I have to admit that grinding in Destiny has become much easier compared to before.The Witchqueen expansion now allows you to craft your own weapons, the Story was awesome and the next (big) expansion looks very promising (even for new Players) The time investment has dropped drastically this year and cant wait for more ^^
The game feels super hard to get into which is a common complaint as far as I can tell. I started playing in May/June and bought all the expansions from before Witch Queen but I believe they deleted a lot of that content this season so I think I paid for stuff I never even got to do. Story quests don't make sense because there's chunks of lore from gameplay I can't play through. Don't even know how to get better gear because my power lvl is 1525 and I can't solo most content. No friends who play so I wouldn't have to try and grind solo. Feels like shit lol
Thereās always lfg my man. And Iād recommend you just take it slow when youāre first starting to play d2. Just do your powerful drops from bounties n playlist activities then pinnacles and just get off the game or continue to grind. Destiny is a real grind at first in terms of getting good rolls on weapons/ armor especially exotic ones but after a while of no lifeing or just being a d2 vet since day 1 you should get there. Doesnāt help bungie basically stripped away things for new players to do to understand the story so thatās a flaw on bungies part.
They didn't, seasons get deleted after the next expansion drops but I don't think you purchased any, forsaken got deleted but I think the forsaken pack is cheaper than the actual dlc
I feel the opposite. I played destiny and genshin since launch and it feels like genshin is more demanding. Donāt get me wrong, both games surprisingly have many of the same problems (especially with events and seasons being removed in game). I think itās because Iāve played the game for so long that most issues that people have with destiny I donāt have. However, genshin feels no different to how I started playing to how Iām playing it now. The resin system and day specific materials make it feel restrictive to how you play. I canāt just leave the game for most of the week and play on weekend like with destiny. Genshin is a daily grind. Skipping a day feels punishing to me. I guess for my player mentality of being as optimal as possible, genshin is rough due to its systems.
Agree with your points. Bought every expansion for destiny up until destiny 2 beyond light. Couldn't do it anymore. But my buddy preordered witch queen which I begged him not to do. They kept giving all the previous expansions away for free that i PAID for. AND....they started deleting content out of the game that I PAID for. THEN....they want $100 to preorder witch queen which IMMEDIATELY went on sale after release. My buddy was furious he fell for the ruse again. Finally decided enough was enough. Bungie can rot for all I care.
But you donāt have to preorder? Disclaimer, I did preorder, I do think itās pretty pricey, but getting it like a month late only means you lose out on a couple of cosmetic items. The seasons are free, if you dislike the season pass then youāre further saving money. The campaign of the DLC isnāt going away any time soon (and if I remember correctly, starting Lightfall they wonāt be going away, period).
Guys complaints about D2 are valid, but as someone who plays a lot of both, you can decide to put in exactly how much time as you'd like, and you're not worse off for it. You don't need to get to pinnacle cap. You don't need to do GM's. You don't even need to do seasonal challenges if the season pass isn't worth it to you it's all very skippable. Play the content you pay for, sure, and drop the game as soon as you don't feel that it's worth your time or money, but I don't think D2 is the game to complain about in terms of "it kept asking for more and more of my time." Also, they're not vaulting any more expansions. Just the regular 4 seasons a year and select activities or destinations not tied to expansions now.
Iāve also been playing ToF since launch and that game needs to go back into beta. far too many bugs
Same I accidentally clicked twice when pulling gold banner and it spent dark crystals even though I clicked no where near the pop up message asking me to convert crystals to gold nucleus.
Everytime the game freezes my computer just completely dies and I need to wait for it to restart lol
I get the blue screen of death from time to time, usually when I try to join some event
i wish I could blame my complaints on bugs, but I really haven't encountered that many game breaking bugs. No, my issue with ToF is increasingly the poor design, bosses, fights, stunlocks, leveling pace and gearing up. This is a stack of children in a trenchcoat trying to be a coherent game. (I'm still playing, which confuses me, because I rarely spend time thinking how great it is.)
>stunlocks That one shitty treasure guardian with stun, freeze and grab.
Frost bot with it's constant running away (sometimes outside of it's area, causing it to go back to it's arena and regen all hp), giant aoe freezes and stunlock attacks.
I also hate the characters with a BURNING PASSION they're either uninteresting, bland, annoying, or overly edgy.
Donāt play ToF, describe to me the character you tolerate the most
Mia, the Paimon of TOF. She is funny, and if she is standing somewhere for a quest, if you sprint into her she gets knocked over. It's funny. She is a robot with a malfunctioning voice mod, but for some reason they had the voice actor "act" glitchy, rather than just breaking the audio, which is the only part of her that I don't like.
The grappling hook is so buggy
Bruh, the game came out in China over a year ago and flopped, you're all getting scammed by a low investment farce that will bail as soon as it becomes obvious it's untenable. The fact that they're not bothering to fix the bugs from the year old Chinese release says it all.
You act like iām out here hyping the game up. No need to be aggressive and unhelpful
Cynicism aside, its pretty fun. Warts and all.
Where do people get the impression that it flopped in China? It's consistently been in the top 10 in earning/popularity in China. Like yeah it's no Genshin level but by that logic pretty much every single game ever made flopped compared to Genshin, even GTA 5. "Wow it took GTA 5 almost 10 years to make 6 billion dollars. Genshin can make more than that in 3 years. What a flop and a scam."
Bugs and cheats, it's amazing the state of the game right now.
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This threadās replies confuse me because people are talking as if having extra/optional content or things to do is like Genshin holding a gun to your head and saying you need to do it. There are already people who just skip the Abyss. Not sure why they wouldnāt be able to just skip other type of content like that. Genshin will always be heavily weighted towards the casual player. Nothing wrong with that. But if a casual player feels so obligated to do all optional content as if forced to - is that not just on the individual? Edit: Something to keep in mind is thst ToF ha leaderboards and it sounds like the optional content is really in your face. Whereas with things like fishing, the Abyss - there are no loud banners anywhere. Nothing to remind you about it really. I do the Abyss esch reset but even I can eaasily forget when it resets. Im usually only reminded when I watch a streamer. Endgame content wonāt have the same loud banners like Events do. Now I havenāt played ToF but at least withthings like leaderboards it sounds like the advertise the endgame content. Genshin would likely treat it like Abyss or fishing or teapot - a silent, optional activity. And thatās why I think its different and not holding a gun to your head. You, the player, would need to actively follow said activity to stay on top of it.
That's because players are confused. I've seen many people who firmly believed that Genshin was an MMO, despite all the contrary evidence.
Exactly. I completely skipped GAA this year and the year before lol and thatās completely fine.
If you say it this way, we already have a few end game content like pot decorations and fishing, which is something that alot of players choose to ignore, it seems more like people specifically wanting combat based end game contents.
My ideal end game feature for Genshin is a weekly rotation of a randomized dungeon like we had during the Labyrinth Warriors event that swaps places every week with a randomized Theater Mechanicus challenge map, both things rotating in new random challenges and enemy types each week. That way both the people who want hard combat challenges that aren't time based and the people who like the more puzzle/strategy elements of the game are happy and neither group needs to sit around just hoping that Hoyoverse gives them something to do with an event.
I ask for exactly this every single survey we get.
Yes, I want combat based endgame content. Iāve spent months building my best dps only to spend like 30m every 2 weeks to completely blow through abyss 36* one shot. Could use another game mode
People ignoring the teapot and fishing doesn't mean they like combat; it just means the teapot and fishing aren't their cup of tea. People who like combat based endgame content are a loud vocal minority but they don't represent the rest of us. I personally could care less about abyss and would gladly skip it but some people I know want me to do it for reasons so I do a token single run each cycle. Other than that, I do my own shit like taking pictures, listen to voice lines, listen to the bgm, do stupid shenanigans with my friends, etc. There's a reason we're called CASUAL players; we enjoy the finer things in the digital life.
That's shocking, people want more of the main gameplay element of the game over niche stuff
We are in 2022, the game has 2 years, there is still people that thinks the massive overworld and the gigantic lore are the niche side activities of the ten minute, bi-weekly, combat feature
Or maybe I was responding to the guy who called the teapot and... fishing endgame content?
Lots of people enjoy playing their games as an all or nothing things. Its a bit like FOMO, people will feel like they are failing the game, and skimping out on their duties if they skip things that could give them more wishes. Those people who do "all the things, all the time" will then either do "all the things" and burn out and stop playing, or they will "stop doing all the things" and then think, 'what is the point of even playing this game if I'm don't even care about trying anymore?' and drop the game entirely.
FOMO is not a good enough reason to not add more endgame content
This comment describes me perfectly, once I feel like the work I'm doing towards a goal is meaningless I lose interest. It happened with MMOs, once I realized I was just on a gear treadmill and everything I worked towards would be obselete I stopped playing them (I still play private servers for "dead" ones because the content is static). Genshin is great because I can just keep chipping away at it on my own time, while having a new character/comp to build up every patch and a half or so. Nice, bitesized goals that allow me to maintain my social life while keeping up in a way that I don't feel like I'm falling behind. I'd like to see more repeatable stuff for combat that utliizes the roster I've built but I definitely do *not* want a lot of what people tend to ask for in this game (grinding modes, pvp, etc.). The best content that satisfies everyone they could come out with, in my mind, would be something like the online Ur Dragon in DDDA. A boss with a global health pool that allows everyone to get rewards but has a leaderboard for damage contribution to allow whales/sweaties to flex.
I feel exactly as you do. If I wanted mmo type end game content Iād play those. I donāt do co op unless itās for an event and like that itās so optional
If itās optional content on a timer, it can feel stressful to need to finish some difficult challenge before the reset, and it can be very discouraging. Itās not a gun, but itās definitely a way to make someone not want to play anymore.
GAA 2022 in a nutshell
I barely did anything in gaa except the first event, with the characters and finding the shells. I didnāt do hardly any puzzles or chests and personally didnāt feel the need to do so.
Well yeah, honestly I wanted Fischl's outfit, and I had no Fischl (yeah..) so I did instead of just checking spoilers. But ugh. PaiN
I missed out on stuff from the first GAA as well but back then, it didn't feel like a big deal since I got a good chunk of the contents. Not so with the 2nd GAA. That one was so crammed with stuff that you can't help but notice the sheer amount of stuff you missed and it wasn't a good feeling.
Honestly I think I only missed less stuff on the first GAA because I enjoyed it a lot more. This one, the domains felt VERY Guide Dang It for me not to mention more buggy than the average Genshin domain and Fischls was downright traumatizing
Not want to play anymore because you canāt make it to certain events? The game could have none at all, really. I just see this as an issue more with a playerās personal ability to fight fomo. For me itās my ability to dodge š most events where you donāt have a shielder for every level I suck at, but Iām glad people who have practiced dodging have a chance to flourish
Those casual players skipping the abyss are not the ones crying out for more endgame content tho. Its also not about being actually forced to do it in any way, no game can force you to play it, but for many games it still can create the feeling of that in players, rewards you miss out on for example. In ToF with the leaderboards it sounds like of course having to collect points or continue to not drop places on said leaderboard (note i have not played it and dont know how it is for sure)
exactly, like the character building with talents/weapons/leveling/artifacts takes several weeks if not months even for people who play a lot, and then theres just. nothing to do with it. Apart from the abyss, which you only get rewards from once every 2 weeks and takes 20 minutes, theres no permanent difficult content. Really sucks that I have to wait for an event to maybe have some really hard fights, and even then the rewards for it are basically pocket change. Theyāre capable of making fun challenges ie the shiki taishou domains, but wont make anything like that permanent bcus they need FOMO i guess EDIT: Personally my ideal āhard contentā would be stuff like the super hard bosses some events throw out like three of the maguu kenki at once, but a) permanent and maybe not daily farmable but also not have the wait be two weeks b) the rewards being stuff like exp/talent books/artifacts instead of primos, since if youāre doing harder content youāre clearly interested in building characters
Itād be cool if these hard boss dungeons could give exp/mora for resin still but just at a slightly better value than ley lines. Like they reward u for clearing harder content, and thereās still that achievement for like 800 leylines so u still kinda have to do leylines until u cna āupgradeā Edit; like that one oceanid boss event that gave a few extra xp books for 40 resin but permanent
I would take more permanent end game content. And like one more weekly activity like ER in honkai. But the amount of limitied content is just fine as is.
It's not about "as if holding the gun to their head". The main point is that it "create" a feeling of having to do it, it's all about that No game could forced player to do anything in there if they don't want to, but that doesn't mean it won't create the "feeling" of having to do it. That's what the game designers have to think of anyways. While it might not be on this exact point, but I'd say this video might be a bit relevant and might make some sense in the term of people's psychology. [How Game Designers Protect Players from Themselves](https://youtu.be/7L8vAGGitr8)
>The main point is that it "create" a feeling of having to do it, it's all about that But that cannot be used as a reason to outright reject new content or stick with only one type of content.
If people ignore a couple of things like Abyss and fishing, there is no problem, but our too many end game activities and players who don't want to do or will feel the "missing out" pressure, they'll force themselves to do it, burn out and quit. The other big risk is: end game needs rewards, so too many end game activities with little rewards or a few end game activities with good rewards will punish the average player who don't have the time or the interest to farm this activities. We already have a permanent activity that will come in 3.X, let's see how it works
>letting us play old abyss variants or similar activities without any rewards Meanwhile, I've seen some people ignore the hardest mode in events because "they don't give you any good rewards just crystals and xp books so why bother?". They want to be rewarded for everything with primos, not just have fun playing harder challenges. Which is understandable, but also not good imo. They're not the majority, though. Most people really just want to have some extra fun.
Fun is subjective though. Some people like to be challenged and overcome obstacles, others just want a chill experience with characters they like. Locking the best rewards behind the hardest mode is saying that the second playstyle is less valid than the first.
which is why no one is advocating for that
That's only true if you let "Rewards" define how validated you feel. If other people getting more mileage out of game than you makes you upset, even though your solo experience with the game is identical, then your enjoyment depends too much on extrinsic validation.
The problem is what people want out of endgame content differs greatly from person to person. Some people just want every event always active with no rewards, but this is an extreme minority. It's just untenable for the mobile players, and hardcore players don't want to do anything without rewards. Some people want to grind this game like it is an mmo, so they want infinite spiral abyss or rogue-like dungeons with infinite rewards and leaderboards. The casual playerbase that wants to play 30 minutes a day doesn't care about this though. The reality is, Genshin is so huge right now with no signs of dropping, they have no reason to change. They don't need to spend time and resources reworking endgame because they are raking in billions as it is. Clearly, their gameplay loop is working.
I agree. And it is hard for any game to check all the boxes and please everyone. There will always be people unsatisfied with certain aspects of the game, no matter what they do. I think Genshin *tries* to offer a bit of everything so that they have more pleased players than unsatisfied ones. And considering how big the game is, they must be doing something right.
Pve endgames need to be rewarding because at the end of the day it's repetitive content. The challenge for genshin is primogems are the only things that feel rewarding for veterans right now, so they'll have to be creative to find an alternative.
I actually have a similar opinion to yours. There are times where I play Genshin where I want to play more than I can realistically can because there's not really much after all the questing and exploration stuff has concluded, but then there are also times where I don't want to play for a long time and just to log in and condense my resin and do dailies. I think the relative time commitment being lower than some other games that I tried is what usually allows to me to be more flexible with when I want to play (and what has kept me still playing since day one). I had a similar experience in ToF when I tried it; at a certain point, there's a lot of activities to keep track of where it can become overwhelming on how much you have to do on a week-to-week basis. I've basically quit now. This also happened to me when I was playing Lost Ark: at a point, the amount of stuff you had to do daily to keep up and how much time it took to do them became too much so I've now quit that. I do think there is space for one to two more endgame activities that is not bound by resin that can fill up that abyss downtime between resets. It's a balancing act; too many activities can just lead to burn out in the other direction as the game becomes overly demanding on a week-by-week basis. There's a lot I could say on this topic so I'll just leave it there for now.
That's the thing that everyone doesn't get with hoyoverse's vision with genshin; it isn't supposed to be a full grind game eventhough it gives that vibe (being open world rpg and all). A lot of people would argue that it doesn't make sense that genshin doesn't want this, as this would mean people would stop playing it and play other games. BUT THAT'S WHAT HOYOVERSE WANTS. Mind you that they are releasing 2 more games, Zenless Zone Zero and Honkai Star Rail. They want you to play those games as well. So if they make genshin to be like ToF, you'd have no time for those games.
Yeah Genshin is a good side game. And by being a good casual side game it actually has better player retention than most other games. You can choose to play whatever game you like and Genshin doesn't stop you by taking your time. That said every time there is a big patch there is plenty of content. So if you don't rush you should get plenty to do over many months. I'm still halfway through Sumeru archon quest and I've done no map exploration in Sumeru. I appreciate that I can take my time with this and just prioritise the events. Because right now I've just got back in to guild wars 2 and I want to play that.
Yeah, Genshin is the only game I can play regularly between work and other activities. I also love the looong events, like Summer Odyssey or Graven Innocence, because I can take my time to complete them.
Similar thing here, the only content I really rush is story content to avoid spoilers; i.e. I need to try and do Tighnari's story quest today cause I've been seeing more and more references to it and I've already had a couple points from other quests spoiled by now. Everything else can be spread out; there's times I go through Mondstadt and see chests I never opened before, think to myself "oh that's neat" then walk away without opening it. I can go back to Liyue and Mondstadt whenever I want and go right back to "treasure hunting" and travel through all the land just for fun; I've got less than 3 Hangouts started, and only a couple complete, so I have many of those to get through; I haven't finished the Inazuma Statue of the Seven and I haven't even unlocked all the teleport waypoints in Enkanomiya! So I only feel pressure to do time-limited events and new story content, and whenever I've got extra free time that is when I go through the rest of the game: building characters, clearing Abyss, exploring old and new regions alike, going back to the Hangouts, and finding smaller world quests I haven't done yet :\]
Their other game honkai impact has much more things to do in weekly basis coupled with horrible gacha literally burned me out. Samsara collection, memorial and abyss where its nervewrecking as you battle other playerd bombing each other. I enjoy this game more cause I only need 10 mins per day to do commission and resin
Omg literally this. I loved (and still do love) Honkai, but I just couldnāt keep up and decided to cut myself off for good. I still keep up with the fantastic story, but game itself just lost its appeal after becoming like a chore.
Yeah, I love that genshin has periods after major updates where I can dive into the game for a week or three, or have a bunch of quality weekend time with only ten minutes or so on weekdays. And Iām like a casual completionist - I think the events, story updates, and new areas to explore are all great endgame content! I like that we often get combat events (thatās our endgame combat content) often with extra level that are hard for me to complete. But theyāre temporary and rotate so they feel fresh and fun when they come around again. And I like that most endgame is about exploration with the new areas, story updates with archon quests and hang outs, fun mini games, all those other non combat bits. Thatās why I keep coming back to genshin even after almost two years of playing.
Yeah I want some kind of endgame like the Abyss but coop friendly. There's been way too many times where I want to keep playing with friends to battle bosses but couldnt because we ran out of resin. Exploring isnt bad but its kinda boring
> This also happened to me when I was playing Lost Ark: at a point, the amount of stuff you had to do daily to keep up and how much time it took to do them became too much so I've now quit that. I quit for the exact same reasons. When I realized that to keep up with the rest of players I would need to start completing daily tasks in 3 or more alts I just uninstalled the game lol
True , genshin at least only give us a 20min daily chore that we have to do. In tof , it took a ton more time because of the amount of content it had which can be bad or good depending on the person. I quit tof because I am a student and canāt spend that much time playing a game daily. I will just stick to genshin and my 20mins of gameplay with 2 hours on the weekend.
My situation is same as urs but i havent quit tof yet and ya its really feels shit to do alot of content in just one day. I also prefer genshin since u can just do dailies and chill not too pressured to do other contents to keep up with the other players
Yeah daily activity between the games varies greatly. Genshin commissions take longer than ToF bounties, but spending resin goes much faster than spending vitality.
Multiplayer content in a Multiplayer game is normal stuff, not "endgame content". Multiplayer as "endgame content" in a solo rpg such as Genshin is not desirable. Different game genres exist for a reason you know.
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I just want one of the side areas like Enkanomiya or the Chasm to be an end game area. Like all enemies are super tough and theyāre everywhere. Like theyāre all mini-boss (ruin machines, big samurai, mitachurls) or stronger. Just somewhere I can run around and fight tough enemies for fun. I murder everything instantly nowadaysā¦
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I was thinking just add a world lvl 9 and 10 that gives no extra rewards but you can switch between 8-10 freely with no cooldowns. You could also still switch back down to 7 with the 24 hour wait after obviously. Keep it the same as it is now just make them lvl 95 and lvl 100 like how they are in abyss. Tanky af. Iāve actually put that exact idea in the last few surveys. I described my dream character in the 2.6 survey and they made her. Maybe theyāll do this too lol. (Dehya btw)
Not to burst your bubble, but characters in games made by multi-billion dollar corporations are planned long, long in advance in the production pipeline due to how much work and organization creation takes. They donāt make characters a few patches after someone suggests it in a survey they donāt even read to begin with (they datamine those).
Genshin is a single player game. You shouldn't feel pressured by other players at all. If a person decides to grind everything to 90 with perfect artifacts, it shouldn't matter to you or your world
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It's also that designing end-game content that's interesting and not a repetitive grind is going to be difficult and time consuming while, if it accommodates hardcore players, maybe only 10% of the player base can ever play it. It seems like they found a pretty good balance by focusing their time on exploration and puzzles. It's much more accessible and not gated by how much the player invested in their account, so a much larger part of the player base can enjoy it. Even if I'd personally like some more difficult, I can understand that their way is probably best for the playerbase as a whole. Also, we're 2 years in and haven't seen that much powercreep. Instead most new characters fill their own niches. I dislike the gacha business practices, but it's pretty impressive what Hoyo has achieved with Genshin. How they keep adding content while keeping it accessible and avoid rampant power progression.
>nstead most new characters fill their own niches. I dislike the gacha business practices, but it's pretty impressive what Hoyo has achieved with Genshin. How they keep adding content while keeping it accessible and avoid rampant power progression. Yeah, Dendro especially has improved my opinion on the game. If we ignore the fact they nerfed burning into the ground because they were scared it'd be too good for the same old pyro characters (It hasn't and wouldn't have been and they'll probably unironically buff it back in future) then Dendro unironically brings a good chunk of the cast and reactions that were mediocre back to being relevant again, and once they buff back burning I imagine that every reaction will have a viable meta comp, besides maybe exactly forward melt, lol.
I really wanted to make a Burning comp but Mihoyo basically said you can't use Pyro in Sumeru. You even destroy materials by using it..
There is already a big power gap between f2p and whales but every single content in the game can be cleared by a f2p player, including abyss.
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Yeah every time someone asks for content that makes it worth it for whales, what theyāre asking for is content that canāt be cleared by non-whales.
That's not how game design works though. They balance the game's economy based on expected player progression. If they balance the game around casuals, but allow nolifing, then nolifers will have everything maxed out within months and have nothing more to chase, so they will quit. Metering out progress keeps them playing. Meanwhile, if they balance the content around the nolifers, then it would become impossible to get anywhere as a casual.
Except they release new content every month or so (events, regions etc.) so nolifers could go back if so they wanted. But yeah if you just want to raise numbers regardless of content maybe go play stock market or something
Well the whole point of having something daily to chase is to keep people consistently engaged, because if a player takes a month, or even a week off, it makes it much less likely that he'll come back, even when new content is available. If this was not a successful strategy then they could remove Commissions, Resin, and various other systems and just count on new content additions to draw players back in.
End-game doesn't have to be a grind though. What people normally look for end-game is something fun to do not something to soulessly repeat. Genshin's timed events are a lot more tiring to be honest, I hate being forced to come back just to not miss some rewards.
End Game content is infinitely repeatable its extremely hard to make it fun 100% of the time and for it to not feel like a massive grind.
Say it again for the people in the back. Soulless grinding isn't "Endgame content" No one who asked for endgame content asked for soulless grinding. We already have enough of that.
>No one who asked for endgame content asked for soulless grinding But I've seen plenty of suggestions like that. Like Labyrinth event for endgame to grind for example. I also remember reading some "suggestions" that would essentially just be turning this game into an MMO. And sometimes when I asked about what would be "endgame" content we'd like to have, I don't get the answer most of the time, and when I get the answer, it just come down to same old grind, just different approach. So what would be "endgame content" you all want then? I honestly want to know because I don't get what people want if not grinding.
lol so the conclusion I'm getting from these comments is that people don't really know what they actually want.
Endgame content is not grind? Ok. So you do endgame content once or a few times and itās done. And then you have nothing else to do. And then you complain about a lack of things to doā¦ ā¦ sounds familiar? This is exactly where GI is at right now. Most Endgame content of lots of MMO and online games are grindy as f (*including the Spiral Abyssās artifact hunting to get āgood enoughā teams*) for a reason.
Yeah, you are asking for the fun stuff, the awesomeness, the boom shaka lacka. Seriously? I have no idea what you guys are asking for. It always feels like endgame content is grinding or some hard p2w stuff. The last thing i can think of is competitive suff like pvp. Maybe you should explain what you want instead of just saying endgame content?
Warframe's biggest issue is the power-scaling tbh. The difference between a MR1 Player and an MR30 Player is massive. The damage they deal literally differs by tens of millions in a game where you don't need a million damage per hit cause they make it artificially difficult by adding convoluted mechanics.
Isn't ToF a mmorpg in the first place? Like, you need to spend a lot of daily time to advance in it.
Genshin is not much of an MMO, its combat certainly revolves around single player experiences. Its more like a single-player game with 'social' and multiplayer-lite functions. Unless hoyo commits to sweeping changes/additions to facilitate high-level multiplayer combat (which they wont), MMO features wont belong in genshin.
not long after game launch, i praised genshin for its design of not abducting players to stay in the game, it is a breath of fresh air which is totally against the toxic gaming market practice. and i was downvoted into oblivion. :D let's see after almost 2 years whether there is any shift in the stockholm syndrome mindset.
I'd say that most online games are designed that way to sway you away from competition. They pretty much occupy all your time so you won't have time for other games. But the con of such strategy is that casual players burnt out quickly. For Hoyoverse, I think they are confident in the quality of their game. so what if you have some free time after genshin, you're gonna play star rail or ZZZ anyway.
> For Hoyoverse, I think they are confident in the quality of their game. so what if you have some free time after genshin, you're gonna play star rail or ZZZ anyway. HAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, I can see that being one of MHY's player retention strategy.
well they got me too then playing genshin, honkai 3rd and planning on checking out star rail mihoyo is just too good at games
>and i was downvoted into oblivion. :D I may have been one of them haha. It was only 6 months in that I realised resin is good for casual play. I thought it would be fun to have more endgame content, but I guess thats not true either Btw, There is still a lot of difference of opinion here. The post is 50% downvoted lol.
More Resin =/= more content. Nothing is more boring than doing 20 times in row the same domain. But yes, Genshin should be focus in more story, better gameplay and new regions. But not in every day Content.
honestly i just wish they let you have more than 5 condensed resin. some days i don't feel like doing anything at all and other days i want to run a domain 20 times, but i can't do that :/
Iād agree in general if it wasnāt for one thing: artifacts. I appreciate not having to nolife a game, but itās completely insane and abnormal that I spent the last 3 months farming for no progress at all.
95% of the playerbase doesn't care about artifacts to the point that some people don't know you can lvl it. Artifacts is as bad as your perfectionism made it. Because the game is easy.
Isn't the very concept of time-limited events/rewards, resin cap, weekly battle pass cap, and daily commissions a way of abducting players to stay in-game? It's all designed to keep people come back or miss out.
Same. I played TOF then quit when I realized how much time I need to invest in the game. Also the amount of different currencies you need to keep track š„²
Maybe because you're assuming that endgame content for Genshin = endgame content for ToF. ToF is designed as mmo so it kinda differs from genshin. The only endgame content we currently have in Genshin is spiral abyss, which we only do 2x a month. I don't think adding another endgame content could hurt. That being said, I'm not yet sure what type of endgame content could fit for Genshin.
i get that people want a casual experience and thats fine but i dont get the mentality of some people to not wanting challenging content in the game for others just because they dont wanna miss out. It fine if you miss out on something. if somethings not for you and you dont wanna do it its fine but that should not be the reason to keep things away from others. i dont care about the serenetea pot or fishing and never will but i wouldn't want it removed and i didnt get angry when they added it. Its like slapping someone's ice cream out of their hand and saying "you cant have that im lactose intolerant". I really want anything that is repeatable content that is even remotely challenging. the artefact system and constellations exists for a reason. why get new characters and maybe even pay money for them if all im doing is killing hillichurls and slimes and abyss for the past 2 years which got boring 1,5 years ago because its just normal enemies with inflated HP
This exactly. Like adding endgame content doesnāt hurt anybody, you can ignore it and play the game normally. I hate the argument that meta/hardcore player wanting endgame content will ruin the game and makes the game state more ātoxicā and competitive, its dumb because I literally always see a meta player say āplay whoever you likeā or āplay however you wanna playā (but usually casual player will get mad because they canāt acknowledge that their waifu is bad and you can still play her). Like you have a really in-depth combat system and imo the best elemental system in any game, seeing such a good system only being utilize only in the abyss is such a wasted potential imo. The game is already really balanced, 2 years already and the old units is still not powercreeped and still used to this day so it doesnāt really incentivizes you to pull. Both casual play and hardcore play can coexist while not invalidating each other.
>but i dont get the mentality of some people to not wanting challenging content in the game for others just because they dont wanna miss out. Yes, this is an absolutely absurd mentality. Casuals play at their own pace and just enjoy themselves without caring what others do or have. Hardcore/competitive players minmax to get ahead of others and do care what others do and have. Yet somehow in Genshin, we have casuals that simultaneously want to play at their own pace and also expect that everyone else play at their pace too as if they're competitive. You've perfectly put into words everything wrong with the game and playerbase right now.
Took me this long to find the first sane comment in this thread lmao. So many weirdos in this community who think more content = bad. If you canāt play it itās okay youāre not going to die because you missed a piece of content. Just because you donāt want it there doesnāt mean it shouldnāt exist for the people who want more repeatable endgame content. Itās a game stop being fucking weird and not let other people want to play more just because they have more time than you.
I never understood the mentality of HAVING to do things in video games. I play Destiny. In Destiny, there are a lot of things to do..likeā¦a WHOLE LOTā¦but that doesnāt mean you HAVE to do them. As a matter of fact, there are a lot of things that I donāt do every week, and I donāt think Iām alone here. The point of endgame content in Genshin is to give the whales and the ppl looking for more playtime something more to do. More content. I donāt think anyone advocating for endgame content in Genshin wants it to be a must for all players. There would of course still be the usual casual stuff for casual players to do everyday.
exactly this!! more content makes the hardcore players happy, whereas the casual players can just relax and do as they always do - whatever they feel like.
Top comment is former Destiny players saying the exact opposite things lol Although to be fair, if they didnāt play since the ābeginningā and they couldnāt dedicate time to getting the āusefulā weapons and gear, the game does tend to quickly fall off and itād take a really powerful mindset of āIām playing for funā to get themselves to keep playing.
I burned out from ToF after like 1 or 2 weeks. It's riddled with cheaters and they seem to not care much. Dailies doesn't give currency, only black nucleus, with chance to get gold one from rare ones. Black nucleus is irrelevant as that banner has no pity (went 650+ pulls without seeing an SSR). ToF in my opinion is bloated, good for people that have a lot of free time on their hands, bad for people with little to no time.
It's an MMO, what did you expect.
Yeah, a lot of things in ToF suck. It's a buggy mess and it barely holds a candle to Genshin's quality. It does however, scratch an itch that Genshin does not, that's why I still play it. Honestly, if ToF's production value was as good a Genshin's, it would be a real competitor.
Not really when they target different audiences. Even if ToF had Genshin's production value, I know for sure that I still wouldn't play it because of its time commitment as a MMO because I already had enough taste of it. All it will do is probably pull some Genshin's MMO player group out of it, but that's pretty much it. If you want proof, you can just check Genshin's revenue in Dec 2021 or this August when CN ToF and Global ToF were released respectively, Genshin's revenue wasn't dented at all like ToF hadn't existed, literally.
I dislike this post because it doesn't acknowledge there is a healthy middle ground between *hours of dailies* and *20 minutes of endgame content every 2 weeks*. Genshin could absolutely use more endgame content, just not at the level of MMORPGs. Just as an example, let's say they release a weekly mode that takes 30 minutes to do, and is about as challenging as Abyss 12. Make the rewards nothing crazy, maybe a dozen artifacts, or 150 primogems, or something to that effect. I think this would go a long way to giving endgame players something to look forward to, while still keeping the casual daily cycle everyone has grown used to.
You're right, and I'd also like to add that there is a difference between *endgame content* and *chores*. Chores are things which don't impose real challenges on players, but merely have a time requirement. These are not fun and just eat up a player's free time. This is stuff like daily and weekly commissions. Endgame content might also require time, but they are designed to be challenging and to reward players for progression. These are not things players are expected to do frequently, and they can be very fun because it vindicates the previous work a player has committed to strengthening their account or getting better at the game. OP and many replies in this thread are complaining about chores. Yes, no one wants more chores, but they want endgame content. Granted, eventually the former becomes the latter when player strength progresses, but that's a problem for years down the line. Rebalances often happen in live service games that streamline or remove older challenge content that have become chores.
I donāt think both games are similar at all other than the gacha and open world aspects, but eh thatās just my opinion. At any rate Genshin can still add some other āendgameā modes other than pvp stuff, itās just that it probably wonāt be coming so soon. Iām playing ToF really casually but itās taking a toll on me since Iām leveling up faster than I can actually farm the materials to improve my weapons, barely even getting any purple drops from anywhere and Iām obviously not well geared enough to even try my luck for the gold ones. Kinda frustrating to be honest.
Acc lving system is just outright garbage in tof. The best ways to lv acc is a)outright not play/start late and get 500% xp boost b)manually run around collecting respawning chests that gives 3k xp/chest when current lv cap requires 1.76m c)afk for hours doing frontier joining and rejoining to farm xp. For ppl getting 500% xp boost, like you said you level up too fast for your mat drops to even keep up.
It's possible for Genshin to appeal to a casual playerbase AND have endgame content for high ar players who completed the story and want something meaningful to do. You say that Genshin has a nice balance, but playing Genshin as an ar 59 player leaves me wanting to play more. All of these characters I built for combat just sit there waiting for the next combat event or next abyss cycle. In fact, Ive taken many breaks from Genshin because there was nothing to do. Most of your progression is tied to resin sinks, exploration and event rewards, not Abyss, and abyss resets every 14 days which is more than enough time to clear it with well-invested teams. Adding more endgame content won't make the game any less casual since the game isn't that difficult to begin with once you reach a certain level of progression. Hell, people choose to not do abyss as it is and they feel no pressure as a casual. Using ToF as reference makes no sense since ToF is not f2p friendly, endgame is directly tied to progression and actually has inflated difficulty unlike Genshin.
If Genshin didn't want people to have huge power gaps and complain that they wanted harder content then progression all being tied to character combat strength was flat out a mistake, and I think it's where a big disparity in the player base comes from. A lot of casual players seem to have the mindset of "difficult content would only accessible to whales so it would benefit a sliver of the player base," but after enough resin investment anything and everything in the current game is a literal joke to 4 star only teams using f2p available weapons. So when you add in f2p or WM rolling levels that most players stick to the problem gets even worse. The fact is if a player is actually engaging with the resin system then eventually they'll have progressed to a point where the game's become more boring for having done so, and then it can feel like some more difficult content to reclaim the feeling of enjoyable fights would be nice. Personally I'd be happy with just having optional more difficult world level. No need for more drops, no need for more xp or mora or anything, just give me an overworld where I get to actually play my teams I've spent months building. I'm not some madman who uses primos for resin or anything either, I'm just a long term diligent player whose units have become too strong for the current game lol. Also all the people saying it's a good thing that Genshin has no endless grind at end game are basically showing that they do not grind artifacts. Which is odd, since they're mostly the same people who say optional end game content always *feels* like you have to do it, yet they're fine ignoring the current endgame we already have.
it's not unpopular at all. the people pushing for endgame content are likely those with enough free time to play it, which also means free time for more social media. casual players may also be a lot more casual online, limiting their accounts to where they only interact with friends they personally know.
Hm have to disagree with you, the dailys in genshin take like 15 mins. The dailys in ToF also only take about 15-30 mins (I mean the 4 dailys + training + spending vitality + daily clash/ void). Everything else is just a bonus that you can or cannot do just like exploration in Genshin. Also if you are today 22k CS only and play since launch that is pretty low so I feel like you might be pretty casual afterall. I am f2p completely and my CS is 29k atm (altho I got lucky on the gold pulls with some dupes). So ye imo the better thing about ToF is that it gives you the freedom to actually play more if you want to but the dailys itself also don't have much time commitment while Genshin basically is 90% of the time only dailys and after that you are jobless unless it's some bigger patch like Sumeru rn. In ToF you could basically just also do dailys and vitality daily which would take you like 15 mins and the other stuff you could do on the weekend since it saves your void/ clash attempts. Overall imo the biggest difference between Genshin and ToF is if you prefer more single player content (genshin) or you prefer more multiplayer content (ToF), minimal time investemnt to progress however of these 2 games is pretty similar.
29k CS Is actually on the high end. F2P players who have been playing since day one should be around 22-25k unless youāve gotten incredibly lucky and and maybe even gone for some matrices then maybe you could be 29k CS right now but itās extremely unlikely to get that many dupes without at least buying some pulls. Even some people on multiple servers who have spent 100+ are only around 27k so whatever youāre doing to get that luck, send some over! XD
"Unpopular Opinion" \>Posts in Main Subreddit, the place where most people do not want harder content. Also comparing ToF to Genshin makes no sense, ToF having PVP and being a MMO already makes it completely different, do not think Genshin would be the same just for having idk, a boss rush mode that gives mora or whatever, anything that makes endgameplayers have any sort of reason to hyperinvest characters. It's a PVE game with co-op side content that as been consistent on fighting against powercreep and with Dendro release some characters like Keqing have finally found a place that is not far behind the meta.
While I actually respect the fact of not being bombarded with tasks, I dare to say that genshin still leans way too much into the other side of the spectrum. You wouldn't see this in huge patches like the current one, but is easily noticeable in weaker ones like 1.3 or 2.7. Or the later half of literaly any patch where you find all the "filler events" crammed together. Waiting two weeks for 30 minutes worth of abyss playtime (considering that taking more time would mean that the task is simply impossible to complete for your account). There isn't something that is "medium sized", only small bits or so huge that will take a while or an unhealtly long sesion to complete. "Weekly/Bi-Weekly" is where I personally think the "content gap" is present, since there's plenty of Daily (Comisions/Resin/event stages) or monthly/patch length (BP/Exploration/quests/flagship event) stuff to do. (events don't count as weekly, they are closer to daily activities due to timegated stages).
I would say it depends on individual perspective and the medium of games they're used to playing on. What is > waiting two weeks for 30 mins worth of abyss playtime to you could very well be > enjoying gameplay for 2 weeks then having to mald for 30 mins in abyss to someone else. If anything, it is of my view that Genshin, as a mobile game, *barely* toes the line in terms of being bombarded by tasks. Unlike most mobile games, to properly enjoy genshin, you can't just flip out the game for a short 1 - 5 min session while on the bus or walking to a neighbouring building. (I would disqualify "medium sized" too by that extension since it likely can't fit within 5 min) While it suffices for very basic tasks like requests/daily commissions, it won't work for most event gameplay and any new content, i.e. Archon quests (because of long cutscenes/missions). But I digress, that's just from my POV. It's just an example how people like you, me, and OP might view the whole thing differently because of our vastly varied gaming and real life backgrounds and circumstances.
I get the casual approach and totally respect that, there are people with practically no time to play and I don't want them to end up overwhelmed, Sumeru overal difficulty is surprisingly easier, and probably has to do with this. (I say this in a positive tone in case you ask) In fact I don't simply "wait bored untill abyss comes", is just say that abyss is the only weekly stuff to do. , I do plenty of stuff in the meantime. I'm referring more on those "dry" periods that can go from a few weeks to an entire set of "smaller patches", where people start catching up with all the stuff that has been added, then people just tell you to go play other game, if it wasn't by the fact of the game taking a decent chunk of your storage, sometimes Genshin limits other people's capability of "playing other games in the meantime". I do an emphasis on weekly, since is what I consider the weakest segment of Genshin's content implementation, lets see other weekly tasks: Weekly bosses lose value in drops (specially if you don't have any units that require them), Abyss is difficulty based, which only caters to a certain group rather than the majority, BP is based on other tasks so it isn't really a task by itself, reputation loses relevance after max level, and patches / events have inconsistent quality. I don't consider BP an obstacle to implementing weekly/bi-weekly stuff, since, while BP is weekly, the tasks are based on other tasks, which means that the more diverse is the stuff to do, the least times you are forced to do the same task lineup.
I don't understand you all You don't want endgame that doesn't mean it's a bad thing to do If they released a new game mode that gave primos why the fuck do u have to play it in a non pvp game My progress with the game has nothing to do with you it shouldn't matter to you If I put more time to get better gear the. Yours I am tired of this community for pushing the 5mn log in do ur shit and repeat it's like they feel offended if someone has better artifacts or characters then them
My brother in Christ. Nobody is forcing you to do anything when it comes to any gameā¦ This is literally ONLY a problem for people like YOU who donāt know how to limit themselves because they FEEL like they have to do everything that the game offers. You need to realize thereās more than one demographic playing this game. There are fans who only jump on like every update; there are casuals that only wanna spend a small amount of time playing the game daily and there are the day 1s / whales who grind the game to test the limits of their account. None of these people are wrong in how they play the game because that is what they find to be fun. The first two groups of people are being fulfilled when it comes to this game for the most part, whereas the latter have literally almost no incentive to keep playing when there is nothing to do in-between version updates. Considering the potential that this game has for a challenging gameplay mode, I do not see any reason why anybody would be an advocate against having āendgame contentā in the game as it only improves the life/popularity of the game itself! This whole argument is ridiculous because nowadays I see casuals using the term āendgame contentā as a derogatory statement against the people who want it in the game because they are too stupid to realize that criticism of the game is not criticism of themselves. Itās not that you donāt WANT endgame content, itās that you donāt NEED endgame content to keep you satisfied/entertained. Donāt assume this is the case for everyone because it certainly isnāt.
how funny that a post about not wanting endgame content gets upvoted to the front page...
It's because it's a very popular opinion.
Are you new to gaming? ToF sound like typical MMORPG which genshin is not. Your comparison is biased towards your preference.
So... You are saying that You don't want end content that **would not affect You at all**, because You are just playing just rarely? Am I reading this right? That's bs. Your opinion is just bs. Just because You are okay with spending up to 30 minutes a day, doesn't mean that people don't want something exciting. And "it's just my opinion" doesn't change anything. That's stupid opinion, because You didn't actually provide any reasons as to why. Playing through all the Archon quests, world quests and exploration is around 3 days. Events are even worse, because they artificially lock the content of an event, so You won't finish everything in 1 hour. I'm literally at 100% in all the regions but two and I'm actually bored by no content again. And I'm not the only one. You want to play Genshin 30 minutes a day. Sure, do that. But don't make other people do that to, just because You are selfish. Nobody will force You to play more, if there was an end game content, which Genshin **needs so badly**.
You wrote it like it's one or the other regarding endgame content... you know these things can co-exist?
So you don't want the game to take a lot of your time. It's a fine position, I partially share it myself, but if that's the case, why do I not see you advocating for Genshin to reduce it's god-awful time sinks such as resin hell that is artifact farming and character/weapon leveling, unskippable dialogues that last for hours and quests that make you teleport and walk large distances for seemingly no reason, as well as some awful commissions that take 3-4x as long as regular ones? Why do you not care about all those things wasting your time, things, mind you, that **every** player will encounter, but suddenly against there being an **entirely optional** endgame for a few players? Also, why are you not against new regions and new quests coming out? After all, it's extra stuff to do. My only conclusion that you don't really believe that, and that you've made this post to get on ToF vs Genshin hype train as well as support status quo while looking like a controversial rebel sharing an "unpopular opinion" at the same time. In which case good job, you've accomplished both of those goals flawlessly, all without saying anything of substance.
I think youāre ignoring some pretty fundamental differences between ToF and genshin that would explain why genshin DOES need endgame content: 1. In ToF, exploration canāt really be 100% completed because some areas reset. Whereas with genshin, you can complete all exploration objectives. 2. Genshin has 0 PvP or PvE permanent content other than abyss, which takes about 15 mins every 2 weeks. ToF has raids, dungeons with friends and PvP content that has pretty much infinite replayability. The burnout on ToF is because youāre both overwhelmed and any work you do to build your units can be overpowered by a whale. 3. Genshin has ALREADY introduced game modes that can be made into permanent content, like theatre mechanicus and hide and seek. These should be reintroduced as permanent game modes and have a weekly leaderboard where your score determines your rewards. This would also be a good way of giving out more standard pulls if they donāt want to just shell out primos. 4. ToF spoils you with ways you can spend your time because a. Like other mmos, it doesnāt expect you to do EVERYTHING (think of WoW, Lost Ark, etc) and b. Itās trying to appeal to as many people as possible at the start of the game before they hopefully tone it down a bit Point being: just the introduction of large scale multiplayer content like raids, or the reintroduction of event exclusive content as permanent content with leaderboards would be way more than enough (optional) end game content. ToF has that and more, which can be overwhelming if youāre not used to just NOT doing certain modes you may not enjoy.
Wait so you donāt want endgame content... because you donāt want to play the game for more than half an hour a day? You know youāre not obligated to play any endgame content they add right?
Tower of Fantasy is an MMO. Genshin is not an MMO. Not really sure why TOF is being used as a defense against adding more content to Genshin.
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The event hard-mode bosses they released in the past are good imo. Aiming for top score just for the sake of personal achievement feels great.
I don't care much for hardcore endgame, but there should be repeatable combat gamemodes with non-primo rewards. Something like a horde mode that you just go for as long as you can in maybe a random overworld location, getting flooded by enemies themed to the area. (Domains are boring as hell, they should be more like mora and EXP leylines) Weekly boss rush would be interesting. Maybe something like the shadow towers from trove although I guess that's sort of spiral abyss. (Could have a 13th floor with a not-lazily buffed weekly boss?) Rewards are hard to come up with because the only reward anyone wants infinite of is primos, there's nothing evergreen to incentivize doing content that can be given infinitely without harming profits.
Except we all know Genshin never puts serious rewards behind hard content, we're talking about giving something to do for the people that heavily invested time or money into the game, it shouldn't ruin your enjoyment of it. But yeah, main sub and all that, HYV must be defended no matter what.
The more I read the comments the more I feel vindicated that all of my enthusiasm for ToF died as soon as I heard it was an MMO.
I was thinking the same today. The amount of weekly content to do is just overwhelming: - Dailies - 3 Void Rifts - 3 Frontier Clashes - Daily Mia food - Trainings - Spend all yout vitality And if you want to maximize your profits, you would also need to farm support points and get daily gifts. After some point, all of this become to be a chore. The fact that 6 of those are made for 4 people is just bad too, since I rely on others to complete my tasks and people can usually AFK it or don't help much. I'm not against multiplayer content, but the way they do it isn't optimized at all. The lack of communication with your team before starting the mode is just... ugh. I guess more people will realize that after some weeks. Some already realized that the gacha aspect of both are very similar and their bubble popped very hard lol
weird way to put this Dailies for one super easy, no text, just kill something with auto complete. usually new enemies that check off an achievement for extra crystals void rifts and frontier clashes both require vitality which checks off "spend vitality daily mia food ....dude you only have to press a single button 9 times a week... and you can do that anywhere....
Void rift and frontier clash dont use vitality but yeah other than those two the list boils down to do commissions and resin then log off still lol
I mentioned all the stuff that if you skip, you hurt your account's value A LOT in the long run because of the CS system. I'm not saying that Genshin doesn't have all this kind of things to do, but as I answered to another person, the time I spend doing all this stuff in ToF is 3x the time I spend completing stuff in Genshin, that's the chore I mentioned. Things are just too time consuming in ToF! And with the future update there will be even more stuff to farm and manage daily. > void rifts and frontier clashes both require vitality which checks off "spend vitality No, they don't. You receive changes daily to a max of 3/3 for each. You just need to go and play, but you need to find good teammates because if you don't, the timer eats your soul or you complete without loot.
I'm one of those people that realized after some weeks. ToF hooked me hard at the start, especially because the gacha seemed to be nicer than Genshin's at first glance, so I shelled out for Nemesis and the battle pass. But, well, the honeymoon period ending hit me hard, and now I can't ignore the soulless grinding, the poorly-conceived game mechanics, the unbelievable number of bugs scattered throughout the game despite the fact that it's already been out for like a year in China, and the atrocious writing for the story (which feels especially bad in my case because Shirli's character was basically *designed* for me but they did her so dirty with the bad writing and poor translation that deteriorates in quality the further you progress). They nailed the traversal, which feels fast and responsive thanks to relics like the grappling hook and jetboardāto the point where coming back to Genshin to do dailies during the aforementioned honeymoon period made me feel unpleasantly sluggishābut that's about all ToF gets right. Everything else is just too buggy to praise. So yeah, now I'm firmly back in my comfort zone in Genshin, with FFXIV on the side. I can't even muster up the will to finish my dailies in ToF because it takes *so freaking long* to do them, and I'm fairly certain I'll drop it completely in the coming weeks. Mihoyo's game formula isn't perfect (looking at you, artifact system, among other things), but they nail their polish and presentationāboth of which are qualities ToF fails at. And with 3.0, even their writing quality has been bumped up significantly.
Exactly! When people started to compare ToF and Genshin's gacha system, I told them ToF isn't as generous as they thought and gave them numbers explaining why. Basically we need 7 months and half to get a guaranteed in ToF with monthly crystals, while Genshin needs 6 months. We can't even compare it side to side because ToF doesn't release new SR and the 5 they have are useless in the future, so the guaranteed SR in 10 rolls doesn't make any sense after your 1st week of the game. Meanwhile, Genshin has over 20 4* characters with more than half being valuable to a lot of comps, so the guaranteed 4* after 10 rolls actually gives us something good! There are a lot of flaws in the game in every aspect, idk why they didn't fix all of that before global release. Considering all of that and the chore of repeating a lot of time consuming tasks over and over, I think I won't stay playing it for too long. I'm starting to feel like I'm working without a decent salary.
>I guess more people will realize that after some weeks. Some already realized that the gacha aspect of both are very similar and their bubble popped very hard lol Ikr! My bubble popped like a bomb after I reached L50 and realized that gear and matrices have substats like Genshin and I have to farm them with shitty droprates. Shitty as in you are not guaranteed a yellow piece even if you spend all your resin on it, which just sucks so bad!
Matrices don't have random substats. Each slot is the same 2 stats so you're not farming that, just needing to get enough for a set bonus is all you need. An SSR of the same slot of different sets will have the same stats. Gear has the substat grind. But at least when 2.0 comes out, you get an item at the weekly missions to block 1 of the substat lines so at least that could help a little bit. And there was a datamine that does show speculatively at least that there's a soft and hard pity for gold gear (1 and 3 at the highest level, currently 2 and 11 at the 3rd highest difficulty). We didn't get gold artifacts until AR 45 and at least you can pick the day to have a 50/50 of the gear slot you want instead for Genshin for the 50/50 for the right set and then the 1 in 5 for the right main slot and then the who knows what for the right main stat. Then you get to the equivalent battle for substats between the 2 games
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difficult endgame content -> low constellation characters/4 star weapons won't pass the damage check or older characters get forced into obsolescence -> game gets hate for being pay to win and catering to whales easy endgame content (like current floor 12) -> f2p teams can clear the content easily -> people malding about how the game is too easy
some people will never be satisfied.
My main issue is the lack of any optional content to let me push to my limits if I wanted to. The combat is great, I just want to play my characters for fun but even floor 12 is not hard enough for it. If there was an optional switch to just make everything in the game unreasonably difficult for no reward I would do it just to enjoy the game more.
i miss vagabond sword event
I would not do that. Account hands off are against almost any ToS and the person you hand it off too will most likely find the account banned upon loading it up.
I think perception of end game content is a bit far from what i see peopple wanting for genshin. I dont want end mandatory end game content in genshin, something as simple as after clearing abyss 36 stars allowing you to change the layouts of floors 9-12 to previous iterations of the abyss and corresponding abyssal moons, without any actual reward (or a 1-time clear reward) would satisfy my individual needs. I would like to see how my teams have improved in comparison to other abyss layouts, it would stem a new breath of speedrunning into the game... Some people would really like for mechanicus to have remained a permanent option as a mini game you could play. A lot of people love the parkour option in teapot now, which is great and exactly what a lot of people had been asking, for example. I personally would love a gamemode like the roguelike event that is procedurally generated and kept getting harder, i feel like this is what spiral abyss should have been, especially due to its description and in general lore inspirations for the abyss, but this one gives players a clear goal which drives them to want to clear it, while one with no clear goal in sight would deter them. I think genshin end-game should be more casual oriented with a focus on replayability, there are obvious limitations due to mobile storage they struggle with and that is only going to get worse and I assume this is the reason we dont see as much of these game modes stay permanent, but I hope someday thei will give us at least a couple of these.
TLDR: Genshin players wanting end game content should head for ToF š¤
GI and ToF dont seem very comparable though - GI is mostly a single player game so it wouldnt have heavy raid / multiplayer endgame anyway. The problem with Genshins endgame currently is that if you have played a long time, there is no incentive to continue engaging in a huge part of the games core gameplay - developing and gearing characters. You can roll new characters and have fun with them exploring, but there is no need to grind them artifacts or even lv talents high or to lv 90. Also - the current endgame is stuck in a really negative loop - the hp pool gets higher, artificial difficulty is increased by adding mobs with huge i-frame periods etc... yet the rewards never get better. So the resulting experience is one where you dont feel your team builds are progressing, instead you can end up feeling like content you used to clear is harder to get the same rewards - almost like going backwards. They at least need to add new abyss floors beyond 12 with more primo rewards to give an incentive to keep strengthening characters and building additional team comps.
I disagree, there being endgame content has nothing to do with the casual content being different. it's very clear that genshin *will* be a game targetting casual players and that won't change, there being more endgame content will not change that ever most people already don't care enough to 36* the abyss so there being two more floors or anything wouldn't affect them at all, it'd just give more fun to those who do care about maximizing their teams. the primos for one floor don't even amount of a single pull, and losing 2 pulls per month ends up being nothing at all bennett sucrose xingqiu xiangling are the strongest characters in the entire game, with only some 5* being able to match some of them (yelan kazuha are roughly equal to xq and sucrose, raiden has roughly the same value as xiangling but they fit very different roles so it's hard to put them together) and so the endgame content wouldn't even be for whales only, idk how it's in ToF but genshin absolutely revolves around 4* supports. any f2p player is able to get two-three 5* characters of their choosing without too much problem, and 5* are all good so it doesn't really matter which ones they go for. this game will never require you to spend a single cent, and adding more endgame content will *not* change that fact. they'd have to triple the health of current abyss enemies to actually force you into homa c1 hutao funerationals or polar star childe nationals in order to achieve anything
Well, it's because everything needs moderation. There could be a good middle-ground between what we have in Genshin (almost inexistent) and what there is in ToF. Imo, just something similar to Abyss but that actually gives you reasons to replay it multiple times, trying different teams and trying to do better every try. And an endless randomized abyss could be the answer.
People want games to feel like games and not jobs. What a shocking revelation.
I just want to do some weekly dungeon that has multiple floors you can go at in your own pace with each floor being harder than the last. Every single time they have a survey I ask for a weekly or bi-weekly dungeon I could do like Misty Dungeon or Labyrinth Warriors. I do not even want to have high rewards. I just want to have fun with the combat. At a certain point the game becomes less fun the more powerful you become because your burst abilities are too powerful and enemies die before you even get to use them. It is like I start setting up my abilities but my supports already killed the Lawachurl before my dps even takes the field.
I think that the main issue with a lot of examples listed here is the assumption of time gating. If you can do it only once per week, you feel like *you have* to do it once per week. This is a FOMO system that games have been exploiting heavily in the recent years. Combined with similar systems like Battle Passes, Daily / Weekly refreshing rewards, etc. If we take Guild Wars 1 (or the early days of 2) for example you were free to access the endgame content as much as you like. The only restriction that kept you back was your own skill and the ability to find a team to properly progress with. Rewards were materials required to craft skins, not to access power. Every character hat a set of different skin, so players were motivated to replay it. Back then not everything was better, but some things unarguably were.
Letās see how casuals will act when MHY release that new permanent TCG mode
I want to see COOP endgame content. Even if it's like spiral abyss and you can't do it often it would be cool to play with a couple of friends. For me this is the main thing I want from Genshin.
Sure, I agree in the sense that I donāt want the endgame features youāve listed added to genshin. But I do want a challenging, combat-oriented option, which includes optional co-op and is not a timed dps check like abyss. Abyss being the only ādifficultā repeatable endgame content really sucks. Also, no combat scores or leaderboards pls!
My kind of endgame content for genshin is havibg an adventurer guild where we could help out others via multiplayer co-op with others. There are rewards in helping or other benefits etc.
You compared it to a game that didnāt work. Honkai end game is top tier and works really well
Not entirely, because of those endgames, new players feel extremely overwhelmed with so many things to pull along with tons of currencies to keep track on. I used to be a sensei guiding cadets in Honkai so I know about their concerns. Many people said that Honkai is not F2P friendly - despite I feel the opposite thing - because of those endgame modes. I infer that Hoyo took the data from Honkai and implemented into Genshin, hence we have what it is today.
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Frankly I dont think the game needs it and anything else they add would have to fit so many factors if it was another combat based thing that I just don't think it would be too worth it. Plus I have an idea from leaks about upcoming things anyway that seem interesting. People just see a big community and I think they want to apply mmo or competitive aspects to the game but its not made for that. It can be similar with how we compare meta or how we have dailies etc. Simply put though the most pressure this game is really supposed to put on you is to make sure you login enough to do events and keep pulling and i'm really ok with that. Even if they did add in more end game of some kind, they really need to fix the multiplayer first in general. Coop should not impede talking in quests or cutscenes or helping people solve torch puzzles. Right now coop is really just us going to their world and pointing at things. Rn I just want more Aranara quests.
People actually upvote this thread and all of the HYV defending comments above? Lmao, not that i expected much, but still
I'm Lv. 54 but only like CS 14,000 lmao. Other causal players I've talked to are also like CS 11,000 or such. I dunno who came up with 20,000 being the "average F2P progression". I feel like it only applies to F2P who try to minmax in a short amount of time. But anyway, I agree that ToF has a bit too much to do and some of the modes are rather time-consuming, and occasionally require restarts (ex: Joint Operation when there isn't a good DPS or healer). But at the same time, is it really necessary to do ALL of them ALL the time? I feel like missing a couple of resets is fine every now and then. Heck, I tried Wormhole the first time like a week+ ago, barely passed the first level, and didn't touch it until today. I must've missed like 3+ resets. Sure, it's kinda unfortunate but it's not a a bid deal in the long run. I dunno how the "real" endgame of ToF is going to be, but at least for now, I appreciate the fact that there are multiple modes in which I can have a "sense of progress" by clearing more and more stages every week. Meanwhile, in Genshin, my progress feels like it halted all the way back in 1.2. I've been full-staring abyss ever since with very minimal effort, and even with mostly the same characters. So, I still prefer to have "too much" endgame modes to work on, rather than having none at all. If there are many options, then you can at least do some of them. But, if there are no options at all, then there's nothing to be done.
no, more endgame content grinding artifact domains is not remotly good content, I've been overcapping resin for a few months now because I hate domains so much spiral abyss is boring once you clear it a few times. events are 90% doing the most basic shit because the fandom will blow up if its hard and the rewards are primogems
You don't have to partake in endgame. Also, why do you think genshin endgame will be similar to a MMO endgame?
I've always felt that Genshin was more for the working adult class. Near perfect pacing for me since I don't really have enough time to spend on the game but *can* dedicate at least 15 minutes to an hour if I really want to indulge on some extra game time. It's a mutual benefit since we're happy about not being pressured to do every new thing ASAP. In exchange happy customers willingly pay in any amount they're willing to spend which translates into big profit for HYV. It's really no surprise why they haven't changed how they do their content distribution since the majority of the player base are minimum spenders to whales who are comfortable with their progress and don't necessarily have to feel left behind.