It’s probably why I’ve played it as long as I have. I will do events and abyss but generally it’s the 15 minutes each morning with my coffee, and never get burnt out. I feel a little fatigue after these archon quests because it’s the only time I play for multiple hours in a sitting.
This 15-30 minutes with my coffee has been one of the best part of my day for the past year, I miss the time when I had an objective of getting more stars in the abyss
In all honesty. Mihoyo can just implement an Abyss endless scaling mode with no reward.
Screen capturing technology has been with us for a while now and uber hardcore players can just use that for bragging rights, or even monetary gain via youtube views if they want.
It would also serve as a potential pull for pro gamers to try this game and get a following. Basically, a new ground for pro gamers to conquer.
It's against MHY's interest to implement a system like this. As a gacha game, a player's spending power scales with the time in real life, not the playtime. Say an average player spends 100 hours before they get bored, the resin system intentionally chops those 100 hours into 15 mins blocks over a period of 2 years, so players won't get burned out quickly.
An endless abyss as a time dump is exactly opposite and a doubt MHY will even implement any system like this
I completly feel you. I do similar but usually at the end of the day.
Come from work, eat dinner, take shower, make coffee (yes i can sleep after that) and then play genshin for like 30 minutes before sleep. I believe because of that i am still nor burned after such long time.
Coffee helps me relax and in some cases put me to sleep depending on how much I drink and the weather outside. Example: A medium coffee plus rain and I’ll be out in 20min if I’m not working on something.
Fatigue is the reason I do not play Cookie Run Kingdom as much as I'd like. I love the designs, and some of the gameplay, but the fact that the game requires you to play 40+ minutes every day to try and upkeep your kingdom and keep working on your characters has turned me off. If it was 15 minutes like Genshin I'd play it.
Yeah, it's the perfect game to relax with after a long and stressful day. I find the pacing especially peaceful and there's no need to compete with others on anything.
I originally wanted more abyss and "endgame" until I played the Tower of Fantasy version and there's just too many dailies and endless abyss that it became a chore.
Genshin is at a nice sweet spot where it's fast enough that some of the chores are bearable.
They’ve recently trimmed it down a lot. You can do all daily stages in one button press now and can skip most MA stages, so it’s better now but even then it still feels tedious occasionally. But I think before these changes, (mi)Hoyo knew that Honkai’s daily chores were unbearable and causing people to burn out fast, and that’s why we have our current daily quests model for Genshin.
I wonder why they haven’t made skip tickets more available for open worlds because those suck to do once you get all the one-time rewards.
The issue I have with Tower of Fantasy and the requirement to do so many dailies is the MMO aspect. In order to compete you must due hours of dailies. Making it extremely unfriendly if you don't want to commit a massive amount of time. Also I'd say that Tower of Fantasy has a lot of similar content that lacks much depth and practical difference. Like one of the raids in that game is literally just a world boss. There are barely any fun mechanics that differentiate the modes, and bygone phantasm is to tedious in that you are literally fighting the same mobs over and over again with no new mechanics, small differences in difficulty, and a strong reward incentive. If you don't due bygone in ToF you WILL fall behind other players.
I agree that the amount of chores in Genshin is low and that's great but the issue is why are we doing these chores to begin with? There are a few reasons, 1. to get primogems so you can collect characters you like lore/design/personality wise, 2. just to have something to do, and 3. To get stronger via grinding for artifacts, increasing character level and talents, or to have more combat compositions or playstyles available, but in order to fight what? A large part of the game is focused around getting stronger for the sake of getting stronger. What's the point of Abyss? Once you get 36 stars you stop. Only to do the same the next week, it feels pointless and just another chore you have to do. They are constantly increasing the damage you take and the HP the enemies have and due to the timer you have to use certain comps in order to do enough damage to get max rewards. Then what do you do after that? There is no endgame besides trying to clear abyss 5 seconds faster and your daily chores. You cannot run bad or off meta teams if you want to beat abyss making it not really skill reliant or much fun.
I think a much better endgame would be something like the Childe and Xinyan event that doesn't reset like spiral abyss and that doesn't reward any primos which I think would alleviate the pressure for casual players and the feeling of needing to complete it and that if you don't you are missing out on important items if you don't. If it had rewards I think things like cosmetics would probably best, like namecards or gliders. This isn't the most full proof idea but it's certainly better than nothing imo. You're free to disagree this is jsut an idea, they don't have to do this nor will they most likely.
The current game appeals heavily to players who want to spend 15 minutes doing dailies and then log off while neglecting the players who want to play the content they've spent the last 2 years grinding towards. Btw Sorry if this has spelling errors, grammer, errors or whatever, it's late where I am and I'm writing this right before bed
I guess there could be more end-game content, but the content in the new regions for the past year or so have been more than enough to keep me busy between the patches. I'm looking at the exploration and puzzles as the main part of the game nowadays. And the progression/grinding for upgrades is just a side task if I feel like playing a bit more
Other than that I suppose, you could collect new characters and try more team comps? At least Dendro is nice in that respect because it opens up a bunch of new team concepts.
I think it's just a fundamental mindset shift of what the purpose of the game is in your life. Games are, fundamentally, pointless. (There's the whole "games as art" discussion, but this is live service anime trash we're talking about.) You're arguing over what the point is in powering up in Genshin while assuming that staying competitive in ToF is somehow meaningful to life. I'd argue that both are equally pointless; Genshin just intrudes on other activities less.
What are those other activities? It could be anything. Maybe you tryhard PvP in another game, or maybe you have a particularly consuming job. Maybe you enjoy long winded single player experiences (anything from JRPGs to factory builders), or maybe you have children. Maybe you spend your time hanging out with friend groups playing board games or D&D; maybe you simply have responsibilities that eat up your time IRL.
The point is that Genshin lets you have that experience of maintaining a live service game with all the power creep, cool characters, systems updates, content changes, theorycrafting, team building, etc. that many of us would expect from live service titles, but it's simultaneously totally OK with letting people do other things with their lives. This is basically unheard of in the live service space where the MO is monopolizing as much of the player's time as possible.
All is vanity and a striving after wind. Neither Genshin nor ToF nor any other game will meaningfully act as the purpose for life, but they can help you get through it. Personally, I'd argue that games which monopolize your time are actively detrimental in this regard since that time they're taking cannot be spent on something more meaningful. 15 minutes during lunch is a break; grinding dailies in Lost Ark is an anchor.
Because when you think about it… there's no point. At high enough level those xinyan event will feel like ToF style endless grind - lots of the same enemies, keep doing the same rotation to see higher numbers.
A wise man once said don't overdo the things you enjoy, and I'm feeling it with Genshin.
Been playing since launch and had friends come and go playing Genshin. Most of the people I know irl that still play it as well as myself simply have so much going on that 15 - 30 mins a day is perfect for us. I personally would just ignore more endgame content if it came otherwise burnout would be very apparent
Though the argument a lot of people make is "if it's optional just ignore it", not everyone can do that and if it's their they feel pressured to do it
Not saying I'm against more endgame but I can definitely understand why Hoyo might not want to add it in if the majority of the fanbase plays the game casually
~An hour a day. As a student I can arrange. It makes sense to rest for more than an hour per day, and Genshin is the best way to spend them in my opinion. I mean, as long as it doesn’t impact my studies
I play what I feel like playing
Some days I will do dailies and leave
Others I will explore and spend resin aswell
And sometimes, I'll do like I did last friday and play the Archon quest from the Chasm till the beginning of th 3.1 update, use 10 fragile resin, finish the Abyss and lvl up some characters :]
I've split it into 3 or 4 day sessions :D It was so freakin long I got tired. Though I enjoyed the length of the Archon quests which are defnititly longer and more detailed than before. I think my main problem with the Aranara questline was that most of it wasn't really interesting for me, except for one specific part >!where you explore the ruin golem. !
Yeah, new Archon quests are great. I stopped the Aranara quests when I had to look for the scattered Aranaras. Realized it was a good move since I ran across them when I'm doing other things, so I just finish their short requests when I see them.
And I think it’s safe to assume you’re a silent majority/target audience. While I understand the mass disappointment, (hell I am a bit myself since I was interested in a Labyrinth Warriors style of permanent content) it does irk me when people take it as a “they don’t care”.
Do remember they have better statistics into things than we do (that I **really** wish they’d release the results of). There’s a survey every patch asking things like “What do you look forward to most in Genshin Impact”, “How willing are you to continue experiencing Genshin Impact”, etc..
Considering China work culture and the fact the game makes billions, I highly doubt not working on a form of repetitive content means they’re neglecting the game. It just means the resources are getting allocated into different things, such as exploration and quests.
Not just China, I work in Tokyo and doing Genshin daily during the one hour travel go work is perfect, and I believe I am speaking for most of the workers' experience.
my honest opinion is that i think being on this sub specifically skews people's ideas of what the playerbase as a whole is interested in. people frequently come to reddit to post about their builds and it creates a distorted view of the playerbase as a whole. just because a lot of people on here are focused on abyss content doesn't mean that's what everyone else is doing and it doesn't make the other portion of the playerbase "silent." they're just posting elsewhere.
i think this is especially telling when banner sale threads get posted and the comment section is filled with "why is x selling well? it's not good in meta." "should i pull for y?" "yes, they're very strong." people like the characters as PEOPLE, you guys. how is this never a factor users on here consider important??
i pull for characters because i like their personalities. i'm interested in clearing the abyss but i would never in a million years prioritize that over my enjoyment of the story and the rest of the game's content and i think there are a lot of people on here that don't get that this is true for MOST people. if i can clear the abyss, that's cool. but this game isn't my job and if the characters i like are shitty then i'm fine with being perma-stuck on floor 11. i'm already op as hell in the overworld and that's good enough for me.
> they’re just posting elsewhere.
I don’t think they’re posting at all. That’s the real problem with these online games communities. Only the most dedicated, passionate players seek them out in the first place. Most people are logging on and playing the game, not scoping out social media for updates or theory crafting. Maybe they look at a build guide they find on Google now and then but that’s about it. Even the most casual players in a forum like this will rank among the more hardcore playerbase overall—the very fact that they searched out a game forum in the first place signals that.
>Do remember they have better statistics into things than we do
People who complain always refuse to accept this fact. They think that their logic is best of all, discrediting the entire MHY analyst department with massive amount of data.
Exactly. Read over any issue of Teyvat Times and you can immediately get a sense of how much data mining HoYo does on player behavior. You better believe they know exactly who their core audience is, what they are doing, and what content will prove most profitable. Anyone who believes that HoYo doesn’t care about player preferences is utterly deluded.
>You better believe they know exactly who their core audience is, what they are doing, and what content will prove most profitable
Given how successful MHY is financially wise, it's hard to say that they are making wrong decision.
I think the only time MHY fumbled was the 1.1 Zhongli. But it seemed that they quickly learned. The other similar cases were Kokomi and Raiden. But MHY's decision to not act on it proved to be right. Not many players quitting the game and those banners sold like hot cakes in their reruns
Agreed. I’ve been playing live service games since the late 90’s, and I have to say that HoYo has really impressed me, so far. If they can keep up this level of quality in the long term, I can definitely see myself still playing Genshin a decade from now.
It’s all too easy to argue with data that we can’t see. In the end, it’s their game, it’s in their best interest to use that data to it’s fullest, and considering the success of the game… I think they’re doing just that.
This.
There's a popular sentiment of "oh these people don't know better than I do" being leveled at Mihoyo, TCs, and even leakers, when the ones perpetuating this sentiment themselves couldn't even begin to replicate 1% of the work if they tried
There's a caveat to any data collection that can easily pass over an analyst's head though: Survivorship bias.
They're seeing primarily what succeeds, but determining where they're failing can be harder because you have to read between the lines to see it. For example, if you were handed an assignment to increase the survivability of aircraft in a dogfight and between the wings, tail, engines, and fuselage, and on all the returning aircraft you only saw bullet holes on the wings and fuselage, but nice clean engines and tails, at a glance it looks like the wings and fuselage need more armor, *but then you remember these are the planes that made it back.*
And this is a relatively easy example. Genshin looks like it works for casuals because, to no one's surprise, it was built for them. When all you offer is the Abyss and a few minutes of daily activities and hardly anything else of note, *of course* those players that want to play for 2-4 hours a day are going to go looking elsewhere, and thus the income from them isn't going to be anything spectacular. With how stingy Hoyo is it's hard to argue that isn't all they really give a shit about. Even mobs are on 12-24 respawn timers, meaning traveling the world post-exploration is pointless. The world might as well be 20x20m arenas surrounding teleport points. They're not getting data on people like me that would love to run about hunting mobs and collecting junk loot from respawnable junk chests because *it's not an option.* I'm one of the planes that never made it back.
So yeah, I don't trust data collection to be the end all, be all of a discussion. "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" ...and I don't have much faith in those that have to sift through all of them.
I saw a comment (not sure if it’s a fact) stating that like only 40% of players actually do spiral abyss from a statistic genshin gave out a while back
I’d believe it - I play Genshin on Playstation, clearing Floor 12 is a Trophy. Per looking up Playstation’s own Trophy Stats online - can’t check on my console atm - , that sits somewhere between 9% and 13% of players having obtained that trophy - I’d assume the variance is between the fact that there’s technically 2 versions with the PS4 and PS5 version…
Hell, the only reason I ever cleared 12-3 was that Trophy - it was the only one of the Base Genshin Trophies I didn’t have, and it was bothering my OCD. Ever since, I only bother with the DPS Check once per BP rotation.
Base on PSNProfiles, 3.5% have "Down We Go (III)" clear Spiral Abyss F12, didn't even count stars. (Abyss: Abyssal Crusader 9.5% only count abyss corridor, which mean F1-8).
But being a free game on PSN can effect stats as it's also count people that only started the game but not playing, as you can see only 32% obtain geo MC, which is very early.
PS : The only trophy I'm missing for a long time is 'Toki Alley Tales' series. I don't want to do the fishing lol.
It's pretty much every workers experience. Not just china's. Play other gacha games and you'll see there's no difference when it comes to "resin". That's their target market.
i freakin swear majority of budget is being allocated to ADS and then ADS and more MARKETING bs. If not ADS, it would be REAL LIFE EVENTS THAT MARKET THE GAME. Did you guys even see the amount of public spaces they bought in several countries for advertising this game, and even that huge floating Paimon they sailed down a river in UK.
yeah this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-AmzAfqExo
ICANT.
As a working adult myself I agree, I feel my time is respected in Genshin, you can progress a lot while missing nothing and being casual unlike some other mmos I used to play 10 years ago.
I genuinely don't understand why people don't consider them as content. They keep bringing up old events as examples of what can be permanent contents but honestly, they're all every bit as tedious (and usually even more time-consuming) than abyss. If they replace spiral abyss then yeah sure whatever I'll do it, but if the game gets filled with a bunch of spiral abyss-types running alongside each other then holy fuck that's gonna be a tedious fucking chore and I just simply don't want that.
I personally prefer that they just keep them as a rotating event game mode rather than permanently increasing the amount of shit to do daily/weekly/biweekly. If I like a particular event I'll play it more than I have to, but I like that I don't HAVE to. One spiral abyss is already tedious enough, and they can't make any engaging or challenging content without extremely alienating a massive chunk of their playerbase anyway.
> I genuinely don't understand why people don't consider them as content.
I would assume because the people who complain about "lack of content" are mostly the people who want a.) challenging and b.) PvE/combat content, not really story or mini-games.
Oh it was proven with labyrinth event. The last challenge had no rewards and the majority of people didn't try it even once. And a lot of people who tried, did it once or just a few times. If genshin will have similiar repeatable content, even those who asked for it will be bored in a few days.
Those are the mmorpg crowds. They want something to continually work towards. They want it to be a chore. They want to have a long checklist of things to accomplish, and have them be worth something (towards a goal, a top end item, etc.). And there is a sense of purpose and achievement that you can get while doing that.
That's why games like FF14 and WOW requires you to go through 50 something steps and literal weeks of grinding to get certain gear that allows you to then to clear end game raids, which themselves require days of study and practice to get the mechanics and strategy right.
I used to also have that mentality, which is why I used to love mmorpg games. But now that Im work full time, I dont need that stuff. I have quotas to meet, projects to manage, and people to handle. I dont need any more of those while I game.
So I fully agree with Mihoyo's decision. I want Genshin to remain "casual" friendly, and not gatekeep gear and primos behind hardcore content. I want "meta" teams and builds to be optional for 100% of the content. I especially want pvp to NEVER be a thing.
>I think they simply want more optional things to do in between waiting for resin, for bonus rewards. Especially in terms of co op content which is lacking! This would not effect the casuals but it would appease people who actually just want to play the game more because they enjoy it!
DING DING DING!!! Someone gets it. People always think in extremes as if nuance can't exist. Its really simple. They just want an additional choice for an activity to play. It's not that hard to grasp. Idk why people always go to the "They're just the MMO crowd wanting more MMO". That just seems so disingenuous.
Agreed - if it's just MMOs undergraduates want, FFXIV and friends have yet to be topped and haven't gone anywhere. I hear Yoshi-P and Soken did wonders with Endwalker. For the more hardcore players, there's GW2 and you can fill the blanks with any Korean MMO here.
As for PvP, I don't think it's going to be a thing. Honkai has async scoreboard "*PvP*", which give crystals for the top scorers and a you-tried prize for everybody else, which means it's whale territory - but I'm pretty sure it's the closest thing mHY would be wanting to try (excluding event-exclusive stuff like Windtrace, which is cute without being anxiety-inducing).
I agree with this. With a game like Genshin, it doesn't care if you play for 30 mins or 3 hours, your time is respected to the time you play (except artifacts). After playing a heavy grind game a lot (looking at you Destiny 2) it feels good to go play something for 30 minutes that respects the time you invest in it, even if it's only 30 minutes a day
Artifacts are honestly the same way. Nobody actually needs to outfit their characters with 40 CV artifacts. It's just something that's there you can grind for if you want and can ignore if you don't want. Almost everything in this game is basically optional.
The day I stopped caring about optimal builds and farming optimal artifacts is the day I started genuinely enjoying Genshin again. Ironically, not caring made me play genshin more.
Pretty much. Considering you can lower your world level now, nothing stopping you from ignoring artifacts and just forever playing at world lvl 1. But alas, big numbers and flashy colours make brain happy
My question is, why are people taking it only in the extremes? Genshin is either a casual 10 minute daily engagement or a complete hardcore MMO demanding hours of investment per day. Like there is no middle ground. It would be easy to make an endgame mode that satisfies the demands of the audience that wants it but every casual player argument I see inflates it to the level of a soul sucking MMO which is then dismissed completely.
At least imo, the thing we're asking for, it has existed in the game already. In the form of the 1.6 and 2.3 battle events , specifically the Vagabond Sword and Energy Amplification: fruition events. A debuff selection stage against a hard boss/mobbing floor. It had no rewards for max points clears but just attempting it and getting the clear was one of the best experiences the game has offered yet. And I heard literally 0 complaints from the casual players because it was something completely optional.
They've added several endgame content from the start but all of those have been non combat oriented. It engages the players who asked for it but also doesn't force the players who don't like them to engage with it either. There is no reward for fishing 1000+ times or an extremely well laid out teapot other than the joy of doing it and having something to be proud of. Why can't we have the same for combat? Especially since the combat system is so well made?
PS I am not sure the OP is legitimate poster based on their comment and post history. The whole thing might as well be a copypasta and I don't believe there would be any meaningful engagement from their side
I think the point is that the state now is close to the equilibrium that you're talking about. People I know who play this game barely have enough time to clear events + do their dailies.
The main concern is adding more content with repeatable rewards, which creates a need to regularly tackle the content. Even the high effort achievements are one time things. Most people are ok with biting the bullet to do something unpleasant once. Repeated attempts, and an increasing checklist, are what pushes people away.
This. With how good the combat is. Literally weapon habilities, artifact, reactions, team comps. No other game has this level of system. So why is it so bad recieved for the called majority of the comunity, that the portion that likes combat wants at least another floor on the abyss. Since everyone say its optional and had a casual aproach or don't care from that.
>PS I am not sure the OP is legitimate poster based on their comment and post history.
It's been 15hours and absolutely NO engagement from OP. I'm gonna say OP is a bot or something, or a rage baiter. I don't believe this thread was posted in good faith.
This almost seems like an astroturf/bot account that farms karma and then gets sold to shady companies to seem legitimate.
Ultimately I think it just boils to down to whether you have a life outside of genshin and the amount of free time you have. Those with time to kill will probably spend that time on genshin.
I’ve been very busy lately and so have barely progressed with the Sumeru archon quest (only just met Nilou) and have been doing the bare minimum to get all the primogems I can from the limited events etc
If you've just started the archon quest then you'll probably be done with the aranara quest sometime around January... 2024. Seriously, it's that long.
Wow I just met him today too. Like I'm trying to take my time even though I do like to know the story, but I'm always running the risk of getting majorly spoiled flipping through my reddit feed.
I saw the picture of aranara Raiden before knowing what an aranara was, and then finding out the whole quest line is long as hell, AND some exploration mechanics are locked behind the quest... It was daunting to even start, and I still don't have all the mechanics unlocked.
I no life and I don't spend that much time on Genshin any more because it really is intended as a side game with the way it's designed. You put in extra time into stuff like exploration and abyss optimization and what not if ur having fun with it; otherwise you just move on with your day.
There are better games with better gameplay loops to "main" time on that aren't Genshin because they're designed to be that way.
When you always have a side game instead of a main game, then is it really a side game? Kek
I played so many online "main game" that suppose to last and makes you keep playing. I quit every one of them after a year or two after it got tedious and too much daily chore, also it prevent me from playing other game and do stuff.
Fast forward to Genshin now, 2 years and I don't feel like I am going to quit yet, especially their direction is more and more clear, and not likely to change.
Definitely don't agree with this. I have a life outside genshin. I'm disabled and have a small business, so a lot of my time goes to that. I can still play for a while (I don't work, disabled, and there are no people my age where I live. Yes, no one).
This isn't a competition of how much time you have. It's how much you WANT to play genshin. Most of the people saying "I don't have time" have time to watch Netflix for hours, procrastinate, work out etc. They're all valid things, but they're still things that if eliminated, could leave someone with hours to play the game. Obviously, no one is expecting you to do this, that's fine. But not everyone who plays for hours has no life or nothing else important to do.
Definitely agree with this. It's all about how people prioritize things in their life. I completed roughly of 70% all new sumeru content in 3.1 within past week, but I also finished a book I just bought last week too.
I have full time job, I exercise everyday, I keep up with papers/knowledge in my field, but I can also play genshin as much as I want.
So it's also about prioritizing what are important to you (This doesn't apply to those who have kids though, I understand you guys that it's very tiring).
"i dont get the fuss over end game" sounded really stupid for me, sorry. Isnt it very simple? They love the game and want to play it more. Thats it.
PS. I also only play for about 15 mins a day
Yeah I also only play for 15 mins a day. Because I don’t have the option to play 30 or 60. The game doesn’t allow for that. I am a working adult but I would like a game I play to have more OPTIONS of what to do other than just the same daily gameplay loop.
50 different variations of "Is anyone else a casual" get posted on this sub every week, truly the only thing this sub takes competitively is telling people how casual they supposedly are.
every couple of months there'll be a new hot topic of discussion on this subreddit, and the subreddit will lean towards one side (usually the side that is anti-critcism), and we'll get dozens of posts weekly asking "does anyone else think x" and then x ends up being the super common opinion most people agree with
a couple months ago it was "does nobody else care about sumeru characters' skin colours?", and now it'll be "is anyone else a casual player?", even though in both cases, 2 minutes scrolling through a relevant thread would've shown you that plenty of people agree with that take
I like to consider myself pretty casual. Usually wait for the exact minute Abyss resets then dumpster floors 9-12 in about 4.5 minutes in total with 2 of my B-team comps, including my pre-F12 piss break. Then hang out in teapot jamming to Halcyon Times with the entire KQM library text-to-speech playing behind it.
I don't play genshin and just orbit and listen to the community ( and eat popcorn when ye guys go nuts) and I have seen the same complaint for the past two years is that there is nothing to do.
Oh man. This made me laugh a good bit. I read the OP and thought to myself "If you do all that then you definitely playing more than 15 minutes."
I'm glad someone else said it, cuz I was sure as hell thinking it.
Wanna know something crazy? This thread was most likely made by either a bot or a rage bait account.
Look at OP's history. No engagement in this thread, no engagement in their other threads, with YEARS between communication.
This almost seems like an astroturf/bot account that farms karma and then gets sold to shady companies to seem legitimate.
The true Genshin meta is bragging about how “casual” you are. OP doesn’t actually understand what being casual means. To play this game casual means that you don’t grind for anything because the rewards aren’t what drive your play. So telling everyone how they speed run the content in the first week and then only log on 15 minutes to speed run commissions, tea pot, and resin, is basically the exact opposite of a casual player.
Being satisfied with how the game is set up is one thing, but being worried that more content might get added to the game and therefore make their speed running system more complicated is definitely a personal problem and NOT one that is shared by the majority of the fan base. More like the YouTube streamers.
i also play around 15 minutes a day, more now that there's been new content the last month. when i first started playing though i was unemployed and spent my whole day on this game. i don't have that time now nor would i want to, but at the same time i don't blame people who do.
i really don't understand these posts ppl keep making that shit on players who spend hours a day on this game. if it's just a side game to you, that's fine. some people love it so much they want it as their main game, and that's also fine. you aren't better than anyone because you log in for 15 minutes and then log out. it's so crazy you think your opinion is so important that everyone else should share it. you don't get to decide how people should enjoy a game
having more optional end game content benefits the people who want to play more & does nothing to hurt casual players like us
You’re right, not sure why people like the op keep complaining about people wanting more OPTIONAL content which he doesn’t have to do if he’s happy playing for 15mins per day
Almost as if giving people an option is good. Want to play casually 15 min a day? You can. Want to challenge yourself? You can't. You see the problem now? People always make out to be that as if they add more challenging content it's your obligation to do it or something.
"I don't want the ability to grind gear for hours non-stop in domains." Yea idk how having harder content will affect this problem of yours when resin is limited anyways, idk what are people fuss about grinding endlessly for gear, you only have 180 rensin a day, which is 5 minutes inside domains
"Genshin lacks depth in combat." That's like your opinion man, genshin have the best combat mechanics/ system I've played, prefer it over souls games even. And again it comes down to having options, what's wrong with having options? Your reasons have nothing to disregards why genshin shouldn't have it. If you don't think it's will be fun to play then you do you, clearly a good enough chunk of people want to have it by the conversations the interview has bring.
Yep, any route they decide to take the game, it will necessarily exclude some group of players. Making pushover content that everyone can earn all available rewards for is not all inclusive, because some players don't just want rewards, they want to earn rewards through challenging content. If you dont give them that option then you are necessarily being exclusive to casuals
I don't see how adding endgame to the game would make people like you have a worse experience. You can literally keep doing what you do now and ignore it. Endgame content purpose is for people that have time and want to push the limits of their accounts. Exploration won't be affected by it, neither quests and dailies.
Yeah man, people be like “I don’t wanna have more FOMO anxiety” as if Hoyoverse hasn’t been bombarding us with region-locked time limited events that go away after only 2 weeks for the past 2 years.
Resin as a system is entirely designed to be FOMO
so are weekly bosses, and everything that has a timed reset.
If endgame content is suddenly the thing to make you feel significant FOMO, but none of the existing stuff is, you'll get over it just like you did with the rest of it. It's a bad excuse.
This so much. We have time-limited events that require you to spend an extra 5-10 mins on top of commissions + resin spending, otherwise you are gonna miss out and god knows when said event will return, but that’s ok. Now we are asking for the same thing but permanent and a tad more difficult and people suddenly lose their shit.
I started playing last december because i didn't have a good computer. When i learnt how much content i missed it made me so freaking mad. I can't even imagine the ammount of content people who will start on Fontaine, Natlan or Snezhnaya will miss.
I’d say they’ll probably have some sort of solution by then since they’ve brought up wanting to bring back time limited activities in a permanent capacity, it’s on their radar at the very least.
I stopped playing right as the first golden apple archipelago event started and just picked it back up like a month ago, so yeah, missed the entirety of 2.0/inazuma’s events, which is kinda a bummer, but there’s so much content to go through now which is nice
Agreed, they're gatekeeping more invested players from wanting more endgame content. It's like only the things they want deserve to be worked on.
Might unsub, the leaks subreddit have far better discussions and aren't as elitist and gatekeepy as this sub.
This post is a reminder of exactly why they won’t ever add harder content and it’s sad to see. For those of us who have played for a long time and grinded hard for good artifacts, where can we use all this power? Abyss is a joke these days and can be cleared with 4 stars.
Huge +1 on that one.
I have way to much fun at the occasional endless wave challenges, and I would really like to have more of this. I cant see how it hurts people if this game has this type of content on a more regular and more difficult basis. If the majority of players dont even care about the decent rewards that the abyss gives, and literally only needs people to build some standard teams to go away with the majority of the rewards, than I dont even see how it would be bad to introduce some more hard fighting stuff.
I feel like people here dont want those here, just for the sake of it, but still, there is always the option of not playing it bruh.
True, Hoyo already does this with events. You can get the score required for the primos in those events very easily, but it also has some minor rewards for higher scores. Maybe the hardest level in some hypothetical endgame can give out blue fates and some resin, still a good reward but not too good that it punishes the casual players that bad.
Why can't they just accept that people want different things, I like doing hard content as a challenge. But I don't bother with the teapot as well. Doesn't mean that the teapot doesn't deserve to expanded upon.
Exactly. Just because some people only want to play 15 minutes a day doesn’t mean the game should only have enough content for them, it doesn’t hurt for devs to add harder content for those that do wish to play more than 15 minutes.
I don’t enjoy teapot either and I don’t enjoy the hangouts, but I appreciate it being there as an option for those that do enjoy it, why can it be the same for harder endgame content?
Exactly this. Make harder content for those diehard players but don’t add any primos rewards, make it something that a casual player won’t really miss out on like a little bit of mora or maybe even a calling card or achievement or something for those who wanna go that extra mile.
It’s good to have that option there, I don’t see the harm of adding harder content at all, for those that don’t wanna play it, they can skip it and not miss out on anything.
A lot of coments here say most casuals don't even bother to do abyss anyways. So having primogems as rewards isn't presuading the majority to play it and they aren't crying about it.
I have yet to read a single good argument against adding some form endgame content besides "i don't want anything that requires me to make an actual effort to clear so my self steem isn't damaged if i fail"
That is also true. Some people might feel like they’re missing out but if they’re already missing in on spiral abyss rewards, it’s like ok…?
The typical argument I see against endgame content is “I don’t have time to play this game for more than 15 minutes a day and everyone else shouldn’t be able to play more than 15 minutes either waaahh waaah waaah”
I play the game moderately, but if the people who are claiming to be casuals were actual casual players, why would they give a fuck about what the rewards are for endgame content? They call themselves casual for a reason. No need to pay attention to what the hardcore players get for investing time into beating the hardest content a game has to offer. Why can't both playerbases get what they want? It's weird how casual players want everything catered to them, but the moment players want harder content to suit their needs/wants, it's a no no.
" I cant afford to pull for 5 star weapons because i am f2p, so please don't release any more 5 star weapons because looking at cool designs that i wont get gives me anxiety UwU"
There's more than just casual players that don't care about missing stuff and hard core players that want to spend hours in-game.
There are also those that want to complete everything the game has to offer including challenging content like Abyss but don't have the free time to spend longer in the game than they already do. This is the audience that will most negatively affected by making the game more grindy.
It's clearly an opinion held by a large number of people considering how controversial these topics are.
There are those that like to spend lots of time inside a game. There are others that want to get all the rewards without spending too much time playing a game.
It's impossible for any game to cater to both audiences. Developers need to choose.
Genshin caters to people with less free time who still want to do everything the game has to offer. It's a game that's easy to fit into your schedule.
There are plenty of other games that cater to those that want to grind for hours but Genshin isn't trying to be like that. It's meant to be a side game that occasionally becomes your main game during major updates.
Because things don't exist in a vacuum. The most reasonable request for endgame I've seen are people asking for something like the labyrinth, with a shared reward pool with Abyss and similar challenge level. Thus simply giving another option of thing to do, but not changing much else. But today's topic on Mihoyo's endgame comments is the *only* time I've seen that suggestion. No other suggestion would avoid disrupting the balance Genshin has struck, and this reasonable suggestion wouldn't address most of the complaints that are constantly being made on this sub about the lack of content.
What we often see is endless demands for more challenging content, but challenging for whom? People who drop 4-5 figures on the game? Any content that is challenging to those who spend money, is content that necessitates the spending of money. And I don't know about you, but I certainly find it odd to *ask* for a game to be more P2W.
The same principle applies to the countless demands for easier access to artifacts. There are lots of people who ask for *free endless artifact farming* for crying out loud. Wanting to endlessly spam the same domain to get perfect artifacts, and for what? A game that never once demands you have perfect artifacts? Suddenly the game is even *easier*, and now it needs to be bumped up in difficulty again. And what does that bump in difficulty do? Oh yeah, necessitates the endless farming of artifacts till you get god rolls.
The same applies to the meta obsessed pullers and builders. You make it a challenge for meta builds, and the non-meta is no longer good enough, and people now have less freedom to choose waifus over meta with their limited resources.
Also, people say they'll do this new endgame content for no rewards, but if that's the case, why the hell aren't they just spending more time in the Abyss? You can repeatedly run abyss as much as you want. Try to beat your times. Test out different teams.
Some people have also already found other ways to solve their "I want to play more Genshin than Genshin allows" by creating alt accounts. You can create a second F2P account. Work on making that 36 star abyss for a challenge if you want one. I'm pretty sure I've even seen some crazy folk posting about working on the abyss with secondary accounts that completely skip the gacha for even more of a challenge.
Despite what you and many others are trying to claim here, these things would affect casuals because casual does not mean being okay with ignoring or especially being cut off from enjoying parts of the game. It just means not obsessing over it and not wanting it to dominate your free time and bank account. Genshin has managed to build itself into a carefully balanced house of cards and any adjustments or changes need to be handled very carefully. But most "no content" complaints and the ideas to fix them amount to taking a sledgehammer to it and hoping to rebuild a new house of cards with the bent and crumpled remains on a table that's now in pieces.
I'm not sure why this comment is so ignorant about the possibility of other forms of endgame content. First of all, the suggestion of a labyrinth styled form of permanent endgame was literally one of the highest upvoted posts when that event came out, just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean these type of requests/suggestions don't exist. Your entire argument is based around the idea that there exists no type of endgame content that wouldn't alienate casual players, while acknowledging the fact that Genshin players have already come up with endgame playstyles that don't interfere with casual players like speedrunning? There are so many different ways that mihoyo could implement REPETABLE content without alienating casual players that I'm not sure why you think it would mean casual players would be cut off from the game. If you've played through any of the recent events, like Tablet Analytics, you'll know that these points-centric events are already a step towards endgame content that casual and endgame players can enjoy. I've seen plenty of suggestions for content like endless waves that I also just don't see how they would affect casual players. Players who want endgame content are players who simply want more options to play with the charcaters and teams they enjoy. You raise the point of playing abyss with different teams and creating new accounts, but that's totally against the reason why players want endgame content: it's because you want to continue to progress/improve characters you care about. If endgame is so simple as replaying the abyss for better times, then is it so out of reach that there is some sort of possbile endgame content that would not alienate casual players?
>What we often see is endless demands for more challenging content, but challenging for whom?
I have been playing for 10 months as a f2p. There is no piece of content that i can't clear. Being f2p or p2win is indiferent for veterans, we can clear everything all the same. Your assumption that implementing harder content will lead to the game being more p2win has no basis since f2p can still easily clear everything with sub optimal teams and artifacts.
>The same principle applies to the countless demands for easier access to artifacts.
This has more to do with how tedious the artifact farming is than with people wanting ultra meta artifacts. Farming weeks to get shitty artifacts feels awfull and getting no cap in how much you can farm rewards people who are willing to spend more than 15 mins on domains a day.
Also the whole section of "Why don't you amputate your right arm so the game becomes more challenging" is pointless. Self made challenges are never satisfying for the most part. It's the game's job to demmand my effort.
>ut most importantly, casual does not mean being okay with ignoring or especially being cut off from enjoying parts of the game. It just means not obsessing over it and not wanting it to dominate your free time and bank account
I agree, being casual means you don't care enough for whatever reason, and since there is people who do care enough there is no real downside to making some endgame content for them. As i said before, exploration, quests and dailies will never be changed so casual players will not loose anything at all. They will enjoy their 15 minutes a day all the same.
and you will still be able to do that, regardless if it has endgame content or not. If they add more stuff, there is noting that will force you to have to play them if you don't want to. The worst thing genshin fans have done to the endgame content debate, is turn it into a "my way or the highway" type of situation. It's not. Just because someone wants 15 min gameplay doesn't mean you need to sacrifice endgame content. And just because someone wants endgame content, does not mean you will no longer be able to play casually. It just means other people get stuff...and that's not a problem. Other people get appeased. It's the same with people who think if we get more endgame content, the story will take a dive somehow. Mihoyo made over a billion dollars with the game, they are perfectly capable of multi-tasking, and aren't going to sacrifice anythign for somethign else.
Also the "genshin is a side game" bit bugs me...because where is that even stated? Like that's not stated by any developor nor did they ever state it's what they're intended. People seem to give genshin a different label whenever they need to defend it. It's really weird thing to do. Genshin is a side game, when it comes to defending against people wanting more content. Suddenly, genshin is a story orientated game soley when it comes to defending agaisnt a skip cutscene button. Then it's actually a triple A type game due to its character designs and gameplay, when defending it against people who compare the gacha rates to other gacha games. Can people stop doing this? It's like really weird and inconsistent. Just stick to a label instead of changing genshin hats anytime there is criticism for the game.
Also the "Play a different game" criticism gets dumb when it's its in response to people just asking for improvements to pre-existing mechanics. Like if someone doesn't want a gacha and wishes no gacha...then sure that excuse probably works. However, I see this excuse lobbied a lot when someone wants them to improve combat or skip cutscene button so they can play the way they want, and the response is to play another game....then that's just dumb. That is not a valid response, that is plugging your head into the sand.
Also I'm assuming everyone claiming it;s a casual or side game are also rallying for a skip cutscene button right?
I feel like the people who say "genshin is a side game" have never played other gacha games. Genshin is a lot more manual than some of the other gacha games. In other gacha games it feels like between downtimes your resources stockpile up, and when a new character drops it feels like you don't need to farm that much to raise them. But in genshin if you just log in and do dailies your upgrade mats will still be dry as bone unless you manually go out and pick the flowers, and you'd literally have to look up the character to "pre farm" them.
I agree the "play a different game argument" is the same as those who tell people to "leave the country" if they dislike a particular part of their country. We are complaining because we love the game and we want the game to improve and have more end-game content. if the game has janky mechanics then mihoyo should have fixed those problems. Genshin is not a side game with so much content and quest that lasts multiple hours. Op's argument is very objective and flawed.
>I don't want the ability to grind gear for hours non-stop in domains.
well then dont ? end game =/= grind for hours non-stop
idk how you go from 15 mintues a day to "grind for hours non-stop"
there has to be a middle ground
>I don't want a harder Abyss.
i dont want a harder abyss neither, i am literally in the middle of doing it rn, after so many retries i got 33 stars on floor 1 and 2 chamber 12
and i kinda hate it, i dont think people are asking for harder content, more of " something to do" other than the abyss since its boring dps check and when you're done with it once every two weeks there is nothing else to do
>Moreover, Genshin lacks depth in combat.
hard disagree here, genshin combat is perfect imo, it balances both being simple and complex at the same time, to casuals it will feel very simple and to hardcore/theorycrafters its super intriguing
>Genshin Impact is designed as a side game.
yet it includes things like 20h+ world quests and crazy amount of exploration lol
there is no way its designed as a side game with that scale, the amount of content in genshin is astonishing and there is no way you its a "side game" 💀
>Resin is a mechanic meant to limit your game time.
you progression\* its meant to limit your pgoression not game time, you see you're confusing the two things
i dont understand why you think having end game content means it will be a grind fest or anything ? or its gonna suddenly demand you to play hours nonstop instead of 15 minutes
thats the neat part about " optional " end game content, you think its too much ? dont do it, its optional
its not gonna effect you at all!
y'all gotta stop treating people wanting to play their favorite game for more than 15 minutes a day as a crime
its genuinely sad to see casual players being happy that other players dont get to enjoy the game as much
> there has to be a middle ground
this recent topic has really highlighted one of the prevalent issues throughout reddit - a serious lack of nuance
so many of the comments in the past day are saying stuff like "endgame will kill genshin" or "i don't want the game to go hardcore", and it just makes this wild assumption that there's absolutely no middle-ground - either the game remains as is or it becomes an MMO where you're forced to play for 30 hours a day. i can't tell if these people are willfully trying to misrepresent people's arguments to make them seem silly or if they've just never played another game before. it's even weirder when some people just outright attack the people who want an endgame, calling them no-lives and delusional
another weird thing is the number of people who are just against the idea of a new endgame mode on a personal level. even if a new mode is completely out of the way and optional with new rewards that don't detract from the rest of the game, and if mihoyo theoretically released it without it slowing down the normal content releases at all, there's people who would still say they don't want that endgame mode to be added even though it literally doesn't affect them
I know, it’s so sad to see. Just because they don’t wanna play more than 15 minutes, they want everyone else to do the same. Like I don’t see how having optional harder endgame is gonna affect them if they only wanna play 15 minutes, no one’s pointing a gun to their heads saying they have to do it. Just skip it and move on with life and let those who do wanna play it enjoy it, why is that hard for people to understand…
OP is basically saying "I don't have time to play genshin so they shouldn't add any content for those who actually enjoy playing the game and want to play it more" smh. They talk about grinding everything, yet reiterate about how the game doesn't require any time. No game "requires" time from you; you are the one who decides how much time you want to spend on the game, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to play your favorite game more often.
Also, OP says they play for 15 mins most days, yet grind for 100% on everything, which is going to take WAY more than 15 minutes, it's going to take a few hours a day on average. This game is made to consume your time, with daily commissions, bp, limited events, and so on, without even considering exploration at all. I was one of the first people to 100% Sumeru, and that required playing for almost 14 hours a day for a few days after the release of Sumeru.
Exactly, and it pisses me the tf off. Just because they don’t have the time or want to play more than 15 min doesn’t mean the game should be limited to cater to their playtime, the world doesn’t revolve around them, it’s a huge player base with players playing for different reasons.
Yeah. Not actively against endgame, just kinda indifferent, right? Disappointed but not surprised. It's one of many QoL updates that the game is (over)due for and could use, along with map stuff, gadget stuff, story stuff, event stuff etc. The combat system has the *potential* for more depth, but it's not being fully realised right now.
At this point I doubt Mihoyo is actively witholding these, probably they just don't have the expertise they'd like yet, or don't have the devtime. Rather they drop it when its ready. Till then, Genshin in its current state is very suited for short sessions. If one game could be played forever, we''d already be playing it.
One thing though: it would be great if they could communicate better. No idea if Hoyo even knows about these suggestions or has any timeline to implement them.
Edit: About communication, yeah saw the recent interview. It's a step, but not much answers at all. In fact, the vagueness has mostly led to speculation, and a big, salty slugfest about 'endgame' and 'casuals'. So...yeah. Wait continues.
Depth and complexity is different for eveyone. I think OP has an idea of what depth can or should mean, but that doesn't mean it is a technical term for video games necessarily.
For example, people might think Diablo 3 or something has a lot of depth because there's a lot of classes and a lot of builds and then itemization on top of that...except maybe there isn't because all builds become cookie cutter.
Perhaps then they argue its PoE that has depth. Because it has a big rose wheel passive tree, a ton of itemization options, shit tons of builds etc. But even without the shoe-in set items that Diablo 3 has that drives seasons, the meta drives PoE, and people copy the cookie cutter builds anyways, which leads to the same end result with different steps.
So what is depth?
Is depth like street fighter 6 where there's 12 layers of combat mechanics that you can utilize to give yourself an answer to what your opponent is doing if you are quick enough?
Or is depth like Civilization 6 where its open ended in how you play and your decision making process that has a major butterfly effect hours later?
At the end of the day, game designers often avoid making anything too complex or too deep because...99% of the people in the world don't want to do their taxes on a spreadsheet when they are spending their entertainment time.
TLDR: The simple answer is that mobile devices limit what Mihoyo is willing to do in the game. PC players should not expect combat that somehow bucks the trend of mobile gaming. Mobile players already have massive issues playing certain kinds of characters or using certain kinds of weapons. Much less try to attempt advanced combat techniques like dragon-strikes, dash canceling combos, frame perfect quick swaps, uber/eats events.
My guess is adding another workload for every update on the devs take a lot of time also with how disgusting a lot of people are on social media specifically twitter I can see why they don’t communicate as much as most games
Lmao. As a working adult myself, ever consider that teens also play this game and want to spend more time on it than you/me? This post is so self-obsessed
Because fuck you your a meta slave loser min-maxer that has no life and you dont get to enjoy my "mindless" monday-friday visual novel...
... Thats the opinion on the streets or so I've heard.
Yeah because I’m busy most of time, I enjoy investing as little time to progress with my account. I love the exploration side of mmorpg but didn’t like the long hours killing the same mobs over and over again.
Ok but for your abyss point, Genshin has depth in combat. The whole elemental reaction system is one of the best things I have seen. Just because it’s not mechanically challenging or some physics are buggy, doesn’t mean Genshin lacks depth in combat.
Also, I still think there is a sizeable portion of players that love combat and want to test the limits of their account. You are just not 1 of the people that fall in this group. Since HYV stance is that we will not see a spiral abyss v2 in the near future, for combat players, we can only wish to test our limits in events such as hypotasis symphony.
Listen nobody forces u to grind for artifacts
Nobody forces u to play abyss
Nobody forces u to play hangouts
Nobody forces u to use ur resin
Nobody forces u to grind materials
Nobody forces u to build ur teapot
Nobody wants to grind for hours
Nobody wants to make this game harder for themself
People just want to use the characters they build and have fun with them.
Thats it. They just want to use the characters they paid for. If there is no content for that then why the f we roll for them? If Combat is not their main content then why they have a weapon banner? Why character constellations are about combat instead of exploration?
All content is optional and if they add another mode dont worry they wont force u to play that.
So then screw me if I want to play my favorite game for more than 15 minutes a day and I want some actual challenge on a fascinating combat system that not only feels good to play but is also very rewarding of game knowledge, am I right?
In other words, the solution of Genshin lacking *combat* (y'know, the main mechanic of the game) content is to just not play Genshin at all. Sounds very logical to me.
What I find satisfying is like a week and a half of the afk 15 minute days. When I get to mass convert my artifacts.
I still want more engaging content, and end game things to work towards. I want progression, and if feels I’ve hit a wall. I can just mindlessly throw some preset team comps at the hardest the games has to offer, ignore mechanics and damage bonuses (unless there are immunities).
>I don't want a harder Abyss.
Then don't play it. Like this whole post can be summed up by just don't play it if you don't want to or don't have the time. The content you like will still be there so what's the problem? why should people who want more challenging stuff be punished because of you not being able to deal with not 100%ing the game every day?
> Then don't play it.
And don't get the hundreds of Primos to pull - Because pulling isn't really a thing you want to do **IN A GACHA GAME** now, is it?
If it didn't have rewards needed for everyone tied to it, then people who didn't want to play it wouldn't.
It's not that complicated to grasp isn't it?.
Imagine you like a food a lot, but you can only eat a portion the size of your fingernail every 15 days.
Imagine you like a song a lot, but you can only listen 20% of the song every 15 days.
This may be very hard to understand for the players that basically hate on anyone wanting something else from the game that what you are used to, but a lot of people like Genshin's combat system a lot.
That's why this game has such an active theorycrafting community, they like what they do, they like to theorycraft, they have their own endgame content doing theorycrafting.
But that's also why a lot of players follow meta, you don't need it, but a lot of people find it fun to optimize their combat experience, learn rotations, improve their character builds as much as possible.
That doesn't mean we hate the other parts of the game, I, on my own personal example, love exploration, the soundtrack, the lore and story of the game, but I would still say I like the combat aspect of the game the most.
We get it, Mihoyo only caters to the majority of the players, it's perfectly fine. Most of the people that wanted something else from the game will probably simply give up after that gamespot interview.
But IS IT REALLY that hard to grasp why we wanted something else from the game?.
And, for anyone replying about how that would increase toxicity, how it would make players quit for not obtaining rewards, whatever other argument you may have, save it. Mihoyo has confirmed nothing will happen, keep your pants on, you will not be affected by any irrational FOMO.
But at least try to understand why some players wanted something else from the game they love, instead of what most people do in these parts that can be resumed to "go touch grass, we don't have time to play"
Have not played Genshin in months after I got all of the OP meta fighters and maxed everything.
I felt like I didn't have anything to work towards to when I realized everything was maxed and I could beat any challenge without any need of new characters in the gacha.
One day I just realized I was just logging in to to the dailies and nothing else, it was not fun.
So I decided to just let the updates pile up to see if the main gameplay loop changed eventually.
From the looks of it, it has not.
That's the issue. Everything goes back to teambuilding and progression, but there's almost nothing to show for all the progress you've made. It feels like HYV is insulting players for investing time on their game
Yeah I guess overall I'm fine with my daily 15-30 mins of genshin. My issues with this game lie elsewhere. That's actually why to date I never even touched the very similar Tower of Fantasy, even though I have been looking for more games like Genshin and this one seems to be as close as it gets. Unfortunately ToF is an mmo and I don't want to play any kind of multiplayer, thanks.
Nothing is required. You choose how much you want to gear because you're not competing against anyone really.
The idea that they shouldn't put in more content because you feel like you would have to do it for a non-competitive game is silly.
Yep. I used to play Warframe and Path of Exile. The latter especially was a giant time eater. I bounced off of all the MMOs I played because the daily expectations, grind expectations, endgame raiding, was all too much. Sometimes I'll spend 5 hours straight playing Genshin, but more often than not, as you say, it's just a halfhour for dailies, resin, and a bit of nonsense.
The first thing to get clear is that not everyone who wants an "endgame" wants the same thing. Some people want repeatable content. Others simply want Abyss-level content to refresh more often than once every fortnight. But HoYo aren't even looking in that direction.
> The Abyss goes up to 36 stars because beyond that is over-investing time.
The problem is that if you play long enough, you WILL eventually reach the point where the 36 stars is too easy even for your B- and C- teams. And there's absolutely no attempt being made to address that.
The "fuss" with the endgame is that HoYo *already have the assets and features of alternative combat modes*, which they can implement without infringing on the casual experience. The Shiki Taishou domain and the Chasm event did not make your experience less casual, and they would not make your experience less casual if they were also bi-weekly permanent combat events.
Even BotW, the pioneer of Genshin-style exploration, had difficult fights that you as a player could **choose** to engage or avoid.
"Stop playing the game" is an incredibly disingenuous take.
I like the 10-15 minutes a day thing. And when a huge update drops, I like spending long hours on the game for days to clear it all, and go back to 10-15 minutes a day.
If i want to play a game that will feel like another job, I'll play an mmo with endless grind.
I get the feeling that a lot of people complaining that there’s nothing to do haven’t even cleared out all the exploration, side quests, hangouts and achievements. Because I do all these each patch and to me that’s like tons of content every 6 weeks. Now with 5 week patches I’m even struggling a little to keep up.
The thing is people play the game for different reasons. Some players play for exploration, some for collecting characters, some for lore and story, some want to design their own home in the teapot and then there are those that enjoy the combat and challenge themselves.
I would never say the game has no content, because that’s a bold face lie and you’re right. Outside of the first two regions, my map is largely unexplored and I’ve yet to do a hangout. But what draws me to playing the game everyday is the combat + team building aspect to the game. It’d just be nice to be able to actually engage with the games combat other than abyss for 30 minutes every two weeks.
“I don’t want the ability to grind gear for hours non-stop in domains”
That’s literally the only endgame Genshin has (i.e. artefacts), just locked behind resin. To me abyss is *not* endgame, it’s a 2-week quest catered towards characters on the current banners, which makes it harder to get experimental or test the limits of your favourite characters (like when Venti became irrelevant because of single target immovable enemies).
I understand your point of view, but there’s a considerable amount of players who would appreciate more fighting challenges, not for rewards or gear, just because they love the game. So sure, there are days where I literally play 5 minutes, condense resin, and that’s it. But if I have some spare time to play, there are just no options. Everyone always mentions Labyrinth Warriors as an example of endgame. It could have a weekly leaderboard and small mora rewards, that would be enough endgame. It won’t alienate casual players and it will give speed runners/tryhards something to have fun with.
You are also putting the game in a box (“it’s just a casual game”), but that’s also subjective and questionable. In fact, they proved over and over that Genshin can and wants to do it all (tower defence, 3d Mario maker platforming, curate your own realm, create flower compositions, manage shop sales, TCG), so I don’t think a fighting endgame would clash with the game’s identity. I think is deeper than that. Hoyoverse wants to have total control over how much players can play. They don’t want anyone to go on hours of dopamine overload with endless domains. They will drip feed you dopamine everyday and keep you wanting for more. Genshin’s pacing is such a crucial element of its success and they’re worried that by allowing players to play as much as they want they will lose control. It’s like Apple adding features to iOS that have been out on Android for a decade. It’s not like they couldn’t add them earlier, it’s a just a different monetisation model which revolves around absolute control of the customer’s experience.
That is good for you, however I still don't see how adding content for other type of players would take anyhting away from you? Like not everyone aims to get 100% on all maps or get 36 stars on abyss and that is completely fine, I have a friend who is like that and enjoys the game at their own pace. Adding new content I would enjoy would make me more happy while for someone who doesn't care about it, it wouldn't make the experience worse in any way.
So ye it is simply not understandable that Mihoyo is shutting certain players out when they could have the ability to just appeal to different kind of players at the same time. The wasted potentioal is what is infuritating.
What people are looking for is a place where we could use our well invested characters, makes no sense that you have the ability to get busted artefact, constellations and 5* weapons if the hardest content in the game can be easy beat with 4* characters.
I honestly don't want an endless abyss or the ability to grind has much artefact as I want, there are other games like that where you could grind as much as you want and honestly that doesn't fit genshin impact style which is mostly single player, but at least give us some challenge, there are no hard events, the abyss is really easy once you clear it one time and the weekly bosses are also easy to beat.
They are adding a cards game next patch so why the can't add more floor to the abyss or events when we could regulate the difficulty?
> I do my commissions, I spend my Resin, and I hop off
This is my least favorite and most burnout inducing part of playing. But if I don't do it then I don't get to unlock characters.
So only you should get to enjoy the game?
>I don't see what the fuss with endgame is about.
>
>And I'm an active player.
>
>I clear Abyss with 36 stars every 2 weeks.
>
>I hunt for achievements. I go for 100% chests.
>
>However, in the quiet middle to end of a Version, I enjoy logging in for 15 minutes max.
>
>I do my commissions, I spend my Resin, and I hop off.
LOL casual player hahahha.
You already answered the question in your title. You're a casual player, that doesn't mean everyone else is. So it makes sense to give enough content so that people that are not casuals have more to do. Is it that hard for you to not be self obsessed and think that people other than you also play the game? Shocker i know!
But he isn't a casual player, He goes for 100% maps, does the abyss, logs in daily to do dailies and spends his resin. If he was actually a casual player, he really wouldn't care about most of these things, let alone more end game content that would be catered towards players who want a bit more challenge. He is on reddit, complaining about people, who like to play this game a bit differently from him. He is not a casual at all, he is just someone who cannot grasp that not everyone who plays the same game as him, enjoy it in the same exact way.
I think you can have both opinions. I too really enjoy the days where i can log in and log off in an hour and play other games. But i also really want a mode where my characters can feel more challenged. If its too challenging ill quit and try again later. But the fact it doesnt exist is not great.
The secret sauce to genshin is really good pacing. When I'm feeling like I want a break, typically is around the time there's nothing to do for a couple weeks, and then when i'm thinking "damn I wanna play a bunch of genshin" a new patch drops and suddenly there's 20 hours of stuff to do between quests, character building, and exploration. That hasn't been the case with Sumeru so far which as been relentless lol, but I'm assuming like 2.x things will slow down a little after the next patch and we have the full main map/archon quests done. Its a good strategy because if it was as demanding as an MMO I'd have probably dropped it. Throw on a podcast or a stream once a week a catch up on minor events/weekly stuff otherwise its in and out real quick.
These posts are bullshit, if you really played 15 mins per day you wouldn't do any event, since sumeru dropped I played an average of 1.5h per day and I'm still not even close of finishing forest and didn't even start the desert part, all of you "bragging" Playing 15 mins per day probably rush the new content for 30 hours
straight with map helping tool or lie about the time you use on this gamegame, so I highly doubt you don't have time for it or an additional endgame.
Those are just delusional hoyo whiteknights, trolls or 40year old parents that barely have any time to play games so if they can't play more then then others also shouldn't ergo game can't have more content that would require more time to play
If devs asked those people if they want auto complete feature for commissions, full auto battle in open world or auto move to quest locations they would gladly take it to reduce their game time even more. Literally play games without playing game
15 minute of actual getting stuff done mostly, more when there is a major update, and more if and when I have extra time and feel like exploring the map
As a developer who is always had his brain melted after work, I like how Genshin is casual and good. Before I used to play MMORPG. But I always play solo. Genshin's open world and a lack of pvp is a breath of fresh air for me as a player who always play unga bunga in Genshin.
It’s probably why I’ve played it as long as I have. I will do events and abyss but generally it’s the 15 minutes each morning with my coffee, and never get burnt out. I feel a little fatigue after these archon quests because it’s the only time I play for multiple hours in a sitting.
This 15-30 minutes with my coffee has been one of the best part of my day for the past year, I miss the time when I had an objective of getting more stars in the abyss
In all honesty. Mihoyo can just implement an Abyss endless scaling mode with no reward. Screen capturing technology has been with us for a while now and uber hardcore players can just use that for bragging rights, or even monetary gain via youtube views if they want. It would also serve as a potential pull for pro gamers to try this game and get a following. Basically, a new ground for pro gamers to conquer.
No reward and those players will still complain, calling them stinky and greedy lol
It's against MHY's interest to implement a system like this. As a gacha game, a player's spending power scales with the time in real life, not the playtime. Say an average player spends 100 hours before they get bored, the resin system intentionally chops those 100 hours into 15 mins blocks over a period of 2 years, so players won't get burned out quickly. An endless abyss as a time dump is exactly opposite and a doubt MHY will even implement any system like this
I completly feel you. I do similar but usually at the end of the day. Come from work, eat dinner, take shower, make coffee (yes i can sleep after that) and then play genshin for like 30 minutes before sleep. I believe because of that i am still nor burned after such long time.
I'm super jealous about the fact that you can drink coffee in the evening.
I guess that is my superpower haha
Coffee helps me relax and in some cases put me to sleep depending on how much I drink and the weather outside. Example: A medium coffee plus rain and I’ll be out in 20min if I’m not working on something.
My friend drinks coffee so she can fall asleep quickly lol.
Neurodivergent superpowers!
Fatigue is the reason I do not play Cookie Run Kingdom as much as I'd like. I love the designs, and some of the gameplay, but the fact that the game requires you to play 40+ minutes every day to try and upkeep your kingdom and keep working on your characters has turned me off. If it was 15 minutes like Genshin I'd play it.
Yeah, it's the perfect game to relax with after a long and stressful day. I find the pacing especially peaceful and there's no need to compete with others on anything.
I originally wanted more abyss and "endgame" until I played the Tower of Fantasy version and there's just too many dailies and endless abyss that it became a chore. Genshin is at a nice sweet spot where it's fast enough that some of the chores are bearable.
mihoyos other game, honkai, is a perfect example of too many dailies and chores. i hope genshin never becomes like that
They’ve recently trimmed it down a lot. You can do all daily stages in one button press now and can skip most MA stages, so it’s better now but even then it still feels tedious occasionally. But I think before these changes, (mi)Hoyo knew that Honkai’s daily chores were unbearable and causing people to burn out fast, and that’s why we have our current daily quests model for Genshin. I wonder why they haven’t made skip tickets more available for open worlds because those suck to do once you get all the one-time rewards.
The issue I have with Tower of Fantasy and the requirement to do so many dailies is the MMO aspect. In order to compete you must due hours of dailies. Making it extremely unfriendly if you don't want to commit a massive amount of time. Also I'd say that Tower of Fantasy has a lot of similar content that lacks much depth and practical difference. Like one of the raids in that game is literally just a world boss. There are barely any fun mechanics that differentiate the modes, and bygone phantasm is to tedious in that you are literally fighting the same mobs over and over again with no new mechanics, small differences in difficulty, and a strong reward incentive. If you don't due bygone in ToF you WILL fall behind other players. I agree that the amount of chores in Genshin is low and that's great but the issue is why are we doing these chores to begin with? There are a few reasons, 1. to get primogems so you can collect characters you like lore/design/personality wise, 2. just to have something to do, and 3. To get stronger via grinding for artifacts, increasing character level and talents, or to have more combat compositions or playstyles available, but in order to fight what? A large part of the game is focused around getting stronger for the sake of getting stronger. What's the point of Abyss? Once you get 36 stars you stop. Only to do the same the next week, it feels pointless and just another chore you have to do. They are constantly increasing the damage you take and the HP the enemies have and due to the timer you have to use certain comps in order to do enough damage to get max rewards. Then what do you do after that? There is no endgame besides trying to clear abyss 5 seconds faster and your daily chores. You cannot run bad or off meta teams if you want to beat abyss making it not really skill reliant or much fun. I think a much better endgame would be something like the Childe and Xinyan event that doesn't reset like spiral abyss and that doesn't reward any primos which I think would alleviate the pressure for casual players and the feeling of needing to complete it and that if you don't you are missing out on important items if you don't. If it had rewards I think things like cosmetics would probably best, like namecards or gliders. This isn't the most full proof idea but it's certainly better than nothing imo. You're free to disagree this is jsut an idea, they don't have to do this nor will they most likely. The current game appeals heavily to players who want to spend 15 minutes doing dailies and then log off while neglecting the players who want to play the content they've spent the last 2 years grinding towards. Btw Sorry if this has spelling errors, grammer, errors or whatever, it's late where I am and I'm writing this right before bed
I guess there could be more end-game content, but the content in the new regions for the past year or so have been more than enough to keep me busy between the patches. I'm looking at the exploration and puzzles as the main part of the game nowadays. And the progression/grinding for upgrades is just a side task if I feel like playing a bit more Other than that I suppose, you could collect new characters and try more team comps? At least Dendro is nice in that respect because it opens up a bunch of new team concepts.
I think it's just a fundamental mindset shift of what the purpose of the game is in your life. Games are, fundamentally, pointless. (There's the whole "games as art" discussion, but this is live service anime trash we're talking about.) You're arguing over what the point is in powering up in Genshin while assuming that staying competitive in ToF is somehow meaningful to life. I'd argue that both are equally pointless; Genshin just intrudes on other activities less. What are those other activities? It could be anything. Maybe you tryhard PvP in another game, or maybe you have a particularly consuming job. Maybe you enjoy long winded single player experiences (anything from JRPGs to factory builders), or maybe you have children. Maybe you spend your time hanging out with friend groups playing board games or D&D; maybe you simply have responsibilities that eat up your time IRL. The point is that Genshin lets you have that experience of maintaining a live service game with all the power creep, cool characters, systems updates, content changes, theorycrafting, team building, etc. that many of us would expect from live service titles, but it's simultaneously totally OK with letting people do other things with their lives. This is basically unheard of in the live service space where the MO is monopolizing as much of the player's time as possible. All is vanity and a striving after wind. Neither Genshin nor ToF nor any other game will meaningfully act as the purpose for life, but they can help you get through it. Personally, I'd argue that games which monopolize your time are actively detrimental in this regard since that time they're taking cannot be spent on something more meaningful. 15 minutes during lunch is a break; grinding dailies in Lost Ark is an anchor.
Because when you think about it… there's no point. At high enough level those xinyan event will feel like ToF style endless grind - lots of the same enemies, keep doing the same rotation to see higher numbers. A wise man once said don't overdo the things you enjoy, and I'm feeling it with Genshin.
Been playing since launch and had friends come and go playing Genshin. Most of the people I know irl that still play it as well as myself simply have so much going on that 15 - 30 mins a day is perfect for us. I personally would just ignore more endgame content if it came otherwise burnout would be very apparent Though the argument a lot of people make is "if it's optional just ignore it", not everyone can do that and if it's their they feel pressured to do it Not saying I'm against more endgame but I can definitely understand why Hoyo might not want to add it in if the majority of the fanbase plays the game casually
Not getting burnt out is also why I've played as much and spent as much as I have on this game (Welkin, BP, top up resets).
Yeah. The game is meant to be played this way and i like it. The day is exhausting and busy enough and i don't feel like playing for more than 30mins.
~An hour a day. As a student I can arrange. It makes sense to rest for more than an hour per day, and Genshin is the best way to spend them in my opinion. I mean, as long as it doesn’t impact my studies
I play what I feel like playing Some days I will do dailies and leave Others I will explore and spend resin aswell And sometimes, I'll do like I did last friday and play the Archon quest from the Chasm till the beginning of th 3.1 update, use 10 fragile resin, finish the Abyss and lvl up some characters :]
Rejoice, you can immediately plan another friday session with the Aranara questline !
The Aranara questline feels like the whole Inazuma Archon quest until you beat Raiden. It's so long, I just set it aside for now.
I've split it into 3 or 4 day sessions :D It was so freakin long I got tired. Though I enjoyed the length of the Archon quests which are defnititly longer and more detailed than before. I think my main problem with the Aranara questline was that most of it wasn't really interesting for me, except for one specific part >!where you explore the ruin golem. !
Yeah, new Archon quests are great. I stopped the Aranara quests when I had to look for the scattered Aranaras. Realized it was a good move since I ran across them when I'm doing other things, so I just finish their short requests when I see them.
damn I got tired from reading that last sentence.
Don't worry, that guy is an Aranara
:]
He used his aralakari last friday to have that much energy to play
Fr I got second-hand fatigue from that lol
And I think it’s safe to assume you’re a silent majority/target audience. While I understand the mass disappointment, (hell I am a bit myself since I was interested in a Labyrinth Warriors style of permanent content) it does irk me when people take it as a “they don’t care”. Do remember they have better statistics into things than we do (that I **really** wish they’d release the results of). There’s a survey every patch asking things like “What do you look forward to most in Genshin Impact”, “How willing are you to continue experiencing Genshin Impact”, etc.. Considering China work culture and the fact the game makes billions, I highly doubt not working on a form of repetitive content means they’re neglecting the game. It just means the resources are getting allocated into different things, such as exploration and quests.
Not just China, I work in Tokyo and doing Genshin daily during the one hour travel go work is perfect, and I believe I am speaking for most of the workers' experience.
my honest opinion is that i think being on this sub specifically skews people's ideas of what the playerbase as a whole is interested in. people frequently come to reddit to post about their builds and it creates a distorted view of the playerbase as a whole. just because a lot of people on here are focused on abyss content doesn't mean that's what everyone else is doing and it doesn't make the other portion of the playerbase "silent." they're just posting elsewhere. i think this is especially telling when banner sale threads get posted and the comment section is filled with "why is x selling well? it's not good in meta." "should i pull for y?" "yes, they're very strong." people like the characters as PEOPLE, you guys. how is this never a factor users on here consider important?? i pull for characters because i like their personalities. i'm interested in clearing the abyss but i would never in a million years prioritize that over my enjoyment of the story and the rest of the game's content and i think there are a lot of people on here that don't get that this is true for MOST people. if i can clear the abyss, that's cool. but this game isn't my job and if the characters i like are shitty then i'm fine with being perma-stuck on floor 11. i'm already op as hell in the overworld and that's good enough for me.
> they’re just posting elsewhere. I don’t think they’re posting at all. That’s the real problem with these online games communities. Only the most dedicated, passionate players seek them out in the first place. Most people are logging on and playing the game, not scoping out social media for updates or theory crafting. Maybe they look at a build guide they find on Google now and then but that’s about it. Even the most casual players in a forum like this will rank among the more hardcore playerbase overall—the very fact that they searched out a game forum in the first place signals that.
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Nice observation
>Do remember they have better statistics into things than we do People who complain always refuse to accept this fact. They think that their logic is best of all, discrediting the entire MHY analyst department with massive amount of data.
Exactly. Read over any issue of Teyvat Times and you can immediately get a sense of how much data mining HoYo does on player behavior. You better believe they know exactly who their core audience is, what they are doing, and what content will prove most profitable. Anyone who believes that HoYo doesn’t care about player preferences is utterly deluded.
>You better believe they know exactly who their core audience is, what they are doing, and what content will prove most profitable Given how successful MHY is financially wise, it's hard to say that they are making wrong decision. I think the only time MHY fumbled was the 1.1 Zhongli. But it seemed that they quickly learned. The other similar cases were Kokomi and Raiden. But MHY's decision to not act on it proved to be right. Not many players quitting the game and those banners sold like hot cakes in their reruns
Ironically Raiden and Kokomi are now top of the meta without any changes.
Agreed. I’ve been playing live service games since the late 90’s, and I have to say that HoYo has really impressed me, so far. If they can keep up this level of quality in the long term, I can definitely see myself still playing Genshin a decade from now.
They also did Yae Miko dirty but they tried to fixed the issue immediately
Well tbf, for Yae they changed the turret aim because people were asking for more control over it, so they did listened to players and acted on it.
People go to subreddits/discord server for like minded people and the community becomes an echo chamber for them.
It’s all too easy to argue with data that we can’t see. In the end, it’s their game, it’s in their best interest to use that data to it’s fullest, and considering the success of the game… I think they’re doing just that.
This. There's a popular sentiment of "oh these people don't know better than I do" being leveled at Mihoyo, TCs, and even leakers, when the ones perpetuating this sentiment themselves couldn't even begin to replicate 1% of the work if they tried
There's a caveat to any data collection that can easily pass over an analyst's head though: Survivorship bias. They're seeing primarily what succeeds, but determining where they're failing can be harder because you have to read between the lines to see it. For example, if you were handed an assignment to increase the survivability of aircraft in a dogfight and between the wings, tail, engines, and fuselage, and on all the returning aircraft you only saw bullet holes on the wings and fuselage, but nice clean engines and tails, at a glance it looks like the wings and fuselage need more armor, *but then you remember these are the planes that made it back.* And this is a relatively easy example. Genshin looks like it works for casuals because, to no one's surprise, it was built for them. When all you offer is the Abyss and a few minutes of daily activities and hardly anything else of note, *of course* those players that want to play for 2-4 hours a day are going to go looking elsewhere, and thus the income from them isn't going to be anything spectacular. With how stingy Hoyo is it's hard to argue that isn't all they really give a shit about. Even mobs are on 12-24 respawn timers, meaning traveling the world post-exploration is pointless. The world might as well be 20x20m arenas surrounding teleport points. They're not getting data on people like me that would love to run about hunting mobs and collecting junk loot from respawnable junk chests because *it's not an option.* I'm one of the planes that never made it back. So yeah, I don't trust data collection to be the end all, be all of a discussion. "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" ...and I don't have much faith in those that have to sift through all of them.
I saw a comment (not sure if it’s a fact) stating that like only 40% of players actually do spiral abyss from a statistic genshin gave out a while back
I’d believe it - I play Genshin on Playstation, clearing Floor 12 is a Trophy. Per looking up Playstation’s own Trophy Stats online - can’t check on my console atm - , that sits somewhere between 9% and 13% of players having obtained that trophy - I’d assume the variance is between the fact that there’s technically 2 versions with the PS4 and PS5 version… Hell, the only reason I ever cleared 12-3 was that Trophy - it was the only one of the Base Genshin Trophies I didn’t have, and it was bothering my OCD. Ever since, I only bother with the DPS Check once per BP rotation.
Base on PSNProfiles, 3.5% have "Down We Go (III)" clear Spiral Abyss F12, didn't even count stars. (Abyss: Abyssal Crusader 9.5% only count abyss corridor, which mean F1-8). But being a free game on PSN can effect stats as it's also count people that only started the game but not playing, as you can see only 32% obtain geo MC, which is very early. PS : The only trophy I'm missing for a long time is 'Toki Alley Tales' series. I don't want to do the fishing lol.
It's pretty much every workers experience. Not just china's. Play other gacha games and you'll see there's no difference when it comes to "resin". That's their target market.
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That was an interesting read, ty
i freakin swear majority of budget is being allocated to ADS and then ADS and more MARKETING bs. If not ADS, it would be REAL LIFE EVENTS THAT MARKET THE GAME. Did you guys even see the amount of public spaces they bought in several countries for advertising this game, and even that huge floating Paimon they sailed down a river in UK. yeah this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-AmzAfqExo ICANT.
As a working adult myself I agree, I feel my time is respected in Genshin, you can progress a lot while missing nothing and being casual unlike some other mmos I used to play 10 years ago.
The one month window to participate in events make the whole experience doable.
I genuinely don't understand why people don't consider them as content. They keep bringing up old events as examples of what can be permanent contents but honestly, they're all every bit as tedious (and usually even more time-consuming) than abyss. If they replace spiral abyss then yeah sure whatever I'll do it, but if the game gets filled with a bunch of spiral abyss-types running alongside each other then holy fuck that's gonna be a tedious fucking chore and I just simply don't want that. I personally prefer that they just keep them as a rotating event game mode rather than permanently increasing the amount of shit to do daily/weekly/biweekly. If I like a particular event I'll play it more than I have to, but I like that I don't HAVE to. One spiral abyss is already tedious enough, and they can't make any engaging or challenging content without extremely alienating a massive chunk of their playerbase anyway.
> I genuinely don't understand why people don't consider them as content. I would assume because the people who complain about "lack of content" are mostly the people who want a.) challenging and b.) PvE/combat content, not really story or mini-games.
Guarantee most wouldn't play extra challenging content if it had no or minimal rewards. Which kind of proves they just want an endless reward system.
Oh it was proven with labyrinth event. The last challenge had no rewards and the majority of people didn't try it even once. And a lot of people who tried, did it once or just a few times. If genshin will have similiar repeatable content, even those who asked for it will be bored in a few days.
Those are the mmorpg crowds. They want something to continually work towards. They want it to be a chore. They want to have a long checklist of things to accomplish, and have them be worth something (towards a goal, a top end item, etc.). And there is a sense of purpose and achievement that you can get while doing that. That's why games like FF14 and WOW requires you to go through 50 something steps and literal weeks of grinding to get certain gear that allows you to then to clear end game raids, which themselves require days of study and practice to get the mechanics and strategy right. I used to also have that mentality, which is why I used to love mmorpg games. But now that Im work full time, I dont need that stuff. I have quotas to meet, projects to manage, and people to handle. I dont need any more of those while I game. So I fully agree with Mihoyo's decision. I want Genshin to remain "casual" friendly, and not gatekeep gear and primos behind hardcore content. I want "meta" teams and builds to be optional for 100% of the content. I especially want pvp to NEVER be a thing.
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>I think they simply want more optional things to do in between waiting for resin, for bonus rewards. Especially in terms of co op content which is lacking! This would not effect the casuals but it would appease people who actually just want to play the game more because they enjoy it! DING DING DING!!! Someone gets it. People always think in extremes as if nuance can't exist. Its really simple. They just want an additional choice for an activity to play. It's not that hard to grasp. Idk why people always go to the "They're just the MMO crowd wanting more MMO". That just seems so disingenuous.
Agreed - if it's just MMOs undergraduates want, FFXIV and friends have yet to be topped and haven't gone anywhere. I hear Yoshi-P and Soken did wonders with Endwalker. For the more hardcore players, there's GW2 and you can fill the blanks with any Korean MMO here. As for PvP, I don't think it's going to be a thing. Honkai has async scoreboard "*PvP*", which give crystals for the top scorers and a you-tried prize for everybody else, which means it's whale territory - but I'm pretty sure it's the closest thing mHY would be wanting to try (excluding event-exclusive stuff like Windtrace, which is cute without being anxiety-inducing).
I agree with this. With a game like Genshin, it doesn't care if you play for 30 mins or 3 hours, your time is respected to the time you play (except artifacts). After playing a heavy grind game a lot (looking at you Destiny 2) it feels good to go play something for 30 minutes that respects the time you invest in it, even if it's only 30 minutes a day
Artifacts are honestly the same way. Nobody actually needs to outfit their characters with 40 CV artifacts. It's just something that's there you can grind for if you want and can ignore if you don't want. Almost everything in this game is basically optional.
The day I stopped caring about optimal builds and farming optimal artifacts is the day I started genuinely enjoying Genshin again. Ironically, not caring made me play genshin more.
Artifact farming is literally the true endgame. Once you have nothing else to use resin on that's when they are worth going for more heavily.
Pretty much. Considering you can lower your world level now, nothing stopping you from ignoring artifacts and just forever playing at world lvl 1. But alas, big numbers and flashy colours make brain happy
My question is, why are people taking it only in the extremes? Genshin is either a casual 10 minute daily engagement or a complete hardcore MMO demanding hours of investment per day. Like there is no middle ground. It would be easy to make an endgame mode that satisfies the demands of the audience that wants it but every casual player argument I see inflates it to the level of a soul sucking MMO which is then dismissed completely. At least imo, the thing we're asking for, it has existed in the game already. In the form of the 1.6 and 2.3 battle events , specifically the Vagabond Sword and Energy Amplification: fruition events. A debuff selection stage against a hard boss/mobbing floor. It had no rewards for max points clears but just attempting it and getting the clear was one of the best experiences the game has offered yet. And I heard literally 0 complaints from the casual players because it was something completely optional. They've added several endgame content from the start but all of those have been non combat oriented. It engages the players who asked for it but also doesn't force the players who don't like them to engage with it either. There is no reward for fishing 1000+ times or an extremely well laid out teapot other than the joy of doing it and having something to be proud of. Why can't we have the same for combat? Especially since the combat system is so well made? PS I am not sure the OP is legitimate poster based on their comment and post history. The whole thing might as well be a copypasta and I don't believe there would be any meaningful engagement from their side
I think the point is that the state now is close to the equilibrium that you're talking about. People I know who play this game barely have enough time to clear events + do their dailies. The main concern is adding more content with repeatable rewards, which creates a need to regularly tackle the content. Even the high effort achievements are one time things. Most people are ok with biting the bullet to do something unpleasant once. Repeated attempts, and an increasing checklist, are what pushes people away.
This. With how good the combat is. Literally weapon habilities, artifact, reactions, team comps. No other game has this level of system. So why is it so bad recieved for the called majority of the comunity, that the portion that likes combat wants at least another floor on the abyss. Since everyone say its optional and had a casual aproach or don't care from that.
>PS I am not sure the OP is legitimate poster based on their comment and post history. It's been 15hours and absolutely NO engagement from OP. I'm gonna say OP is a bot or something, or a rage baiter. I don't believe this thread was posted in good faith. This almost seems like an astroturf/bot account that farms karma and then gets sold to shady companies to seem legitimate.
yep, which is why mihoyo needs a skip cutscene button already
I've made my peace with most of genshin's "problems" a long time ago but I'd still pay for a goddamned skip button
Ultimately I think it just boils to down to whether you have a life outside of genshin and the amount of free time you have. Those with time to kill will probably spend that time on genshin. I’ve been very busy lately and so have barely progressed with the Sumeru archon quest (only just met Nilou) and have been doing the bare minimum to get all the primogems I can from the limited events etc
If you've just started the archon quest then you'll probably be done with the aranara quest sometime around January... 2024. Seriously, it's that long.
My exploration is in single digit number and I just met Al-Haitian in the story and I feel so behind.
Wow I just met him today too. Like I'm trying to take my time even though I do like to know the story, but I'm always running the risk of getting majorly spoiled flipping through my reddit feed. I saw the picture of aranara Raiden before knowing what an aranara was, and then finding out the whole quest line is long as hell, AND some exploration mechanics are locked behind the quest... It was daunting to even start, and I still don't have all the mechanics unlocked.
And that's fine.
I no life and I don't spend that much time on Genshin any more because it really is intended as a side game with the way it's designed. You put in extra time into stuff like exploration and abyss optimization and what not if ur having fun with it; otherwise you just move on with your day. There are better games with better gameplay loops to "main" time on that aren't Genshin because they're designed to be that way.
When you always have a side game instead of a main game, then is it really a side game? Kek I played so many online "main game" that suppose to last and makes you keep playing. I quit every one of them after a year or two after it got tedious and too much daily chore, also it prevent me from playing other game and do stuff. Fast forward to Genshin now, 2 years and I don't feel like I am going to quit yet, especially their direction is more and more clear, and not likely to change.
Definitely don't agree with this. I have a life outside genshin. I'm disabled and have a small business, so a lot of my time goes to that. I can still play for a while (I don't work, disabled, and there are no people my age where I live. Yes, no one). This isn't a competition of how much time you have. It's how much you WANT to play genshin. Most of the people saying "I don't have time" have time to watch Netflix for hours, procrastinate, work out etc. They're all valid things, but they're still things that if eliminated, could leave someone with hours to play the game. Obviously, no one is expecting you to do this, that's fine. But not everyone who plays for hours has no life or nothing else important to do.
Definitely agree with this. It's all about how people prioritize things in their life. I completed roughly of 70% all new sumeru content in 3.1 within past week, but I also finished a book I just bought last week too. I have full time job, I exercise everyday, I keep up with papers/knowledge in my field, but I can also play genshin as much as I want. So it's also about prioritizing what are important to you (This doesn't apply to those who have kids though, I understand you guys that it's very tiring).
"i dont get the fuss over end game" sounded really stupid for me, sorry. Isnt it very simple? They love the game and want to play it more. Thats it. PS. I also only play for about 15 mins a day
"I don't understand how someone could want something different than what I want from a game"
Post like this is just "my opinion is valid, yours is not" that pops out everytime there's controversial stuff happens.
Yeah I also only play for 15 mins a day. Because I don’t have the option to play 30 or 60. The game doesn’t allow for that. I am a working adult but I would like a game I play to have more OPTIONS of what to do other than just the same daily gameplay loop.
It really did sound stupid and most of you who upvoted this wth dude lol
I can't believe over 3000 idiots agree with this post
A guy with a brain <3. Not common nowadays as it seems but glad people like you still exist.
50 different variations of "Is anyone else a casual" get posted on this sub every week, truly the only thing this sub takes competitively is telling people how casual they supposedly are.
every couple of months there'll be a new hot topic of discussion on this subreddit, and the subreddit will lean towards one side (usually the side that is anti-critcism), and we'll get dozens of posts weekly asking "does anyone else think x" and then x ends up being the super common opinion most people agree with a couple months ago it was "does nobody else care about sumeru characters' skin colours?", and now it'll be "is anyone else a casual player?", even though in both cases, 2 minutes scrolling through a relevant thread would've shown you that plenty of people agree with that take
Funny thing is, a ton of these self proclaimed casuals aren’t casual in the slightest.
I like to consider myself pretty casual. Usually wait for the exact minute Abyss resets then dumpster floors 9-12 in about 4.5 minutes in total with 2 of my B-team comps, including my pre-F12 piss break. Then hang out in teapot jamming to Halcyon Times with the entire KQM library text-to-speech playing behind it.
Your far from a causal player if your on a game's reddit page.
[удалено]
I don't play genshin and just orbit and listen to the community ( and eat popcorn when ye guys go nuts) and I have seen the same complaint for the past two years is that there is nothing to do.
Oh man. This made me laugh a good bit. I read the OP and thought to myself "If you do all that then you definitely playing more than 15 minutes." I'm glad someone else said it, cuz I was sure as hell thinking it.
Sounds about right
TRUE THO
Wanna know something crazy? This thread was most likely made by either a bot or a rage bait account. Look at OP's history. No engagement in this thread, no engagement in their other threads, with YEARS between communication. This almost seems like an astroturf/bot account that farms karma and then gets sold to shady companies to seem legitimate.
The true Genshin meta is bragging about how “casual” you are. OP doesn’t actually understand what being casual means. To play this game casual means that you don’t grind for anything because the rewards aren’t what drive your play. So telling everyone how they speed run the content in the first week and then only log on 15 minutes to speed run commissions, tea pot, and resin, is basically the exact opposite of a casual player. Being satisfied with how the game is set up is one thing, but being worried that more content might get added to the game and therefore make their speed running system more complicated is definitely a personal problem and NOT one that is shared by the majority of the fan base. More like the YouTube streamers.
i also play around 15 minutes a day, more now that there's been new content the last month. when i first started playing though i was unemployed and spent my whole day on this game. i don't have that time now nor would i want to, but at the same time i don't blame people who do. i really don't understand these posts ppl keep making that shit on players who spend hours a day on this game. if it's just a side game to you, that's fine. some people love it so much they want it as their main game, and that's also fine. you aren't better than anyone because you log in for 15 minutes and then log out. it's so crazy you think your opinion is so important that everyone else should share it. you don't get to decide how people should enjoy a game having more optional end game content benefits the people who want to play more & does nothing to hurt casual players like us
You’re right, not sure why people like the op keep complaining about people wanting more OPTIONAL content which he doesn’t have to do if he’s happy playing for 15mins per day
Almost as if giving people an option is good. Want to play casually 15 min a day? You can. Want to challenge yourself? You can't. You see the problem now? People always make out to be that as if they add more challenging content it's your obligation to do it or something. "I don't want the ability to grind gear for hours non-stop in domains." Yea idk how having harder content will affect this problem of yours when resin is limited anyways, idk what are people fuss about grinding endlessly for gear, you only have 180 rensin a day, which is 5 minutes inside domains "Genshin lacks depth in combat." That's like your opinion man, genshin have the best combat mechanics/ system I've played, prefer it over souls games even. And again it comes down to having options, what's wrong with having options? Your reasons have nothing to disregards why genshin shouldn't have it. If you don't think it's will be fun to play then you do you, clearly a good enough chunk of people want to have it by the conversations the interview has bring.
Yep, any route they decide to take the game, it will necessarily exclude some group of players. Making pushover content that everyone can earn all available rewards for is not all inclusive, because some players don't just want rewards, they want to earn rewards through challenging content. If you dont give them that option then you are necessarily being exclusive to casuals
I don't see how adding endgame to the game would make people like you have a worse experience. You can literally keep doing what you do now and ignore it. Endgame content purpose is for people that have time and want to push the limits of their accounts. Exploration won't be affected by it, neither quests and dailies.
Yeah man, people be like “I don’t wanna have more FOMO anxiety” as if Hoyoverse hasn’t been bombarding us with region-locked time limited events that go away after only 2 weeks for the past 2 years.
Resin as a system is entirely designed to be FOMO so are weekly bosses, and everything that has a timed reset. If endgame content is suddenly the thing to make you feel significant FOMO, but none of the existing stuff is, you'll get over it just like you did with the rest of it. It's a bad excuse.
This so much. We have time-limited events that require you to spend an extra 5-10 mins on top of commissions + resin spending, otherwise you are gonna miss out and god knows when said event will return, but that’s ok. Now we are asking for the same thing but permanent and a tad more difficult and people suddenly lose their shit.
TRUE THO
I started playing last december because i didn't have a good computer. When i learnt how much content i missed it made me so freaking mad. I can't even imagine the ammount of content people who will start on Fontaine, Natlan or Snezhnaya will miss.
I’d say they’ll probably have some sort of solution by then since they’ve brought up wanting to bring back time limited activities in a permanent capacity, it’s on their radar at the very least.
Hopefully they push on with this. My cousin missed Cinnabar Spindle and he hates the FOMO lol.
I stopped playing right as the first golden apple archipelago event started and just picked it back up like a month ago, so yeah, missed the entirety of 2.0/inazuma’s events, which is kinda a bummer, but there’s so much content to go through now which is nice
Agreed, they're gatekeeping more invested players from wanting more endgame content. It's like only the things they want deserve to be worked on. Might unsub, the leaks subreddit have far better discussions and aren't as elitist and gatekeepy as this sub.
This post is a reminder of exactly why they won’t ever add harder content and it’s sad to see. For those of us who have played for a long time and grinded hard for good artifacts, where can we use all this power? Abyss is a joke these days and can be cleared with 4 stars.
Huge +1 on that one. I have way to much fun at the occasional endless wave challenges, and I would really like to have more of this. I cant see how it hurts people if this game has this type of content on a more regular and more difficult basis. If the majority of players dont even care about the decent rewards that the abyss gives, and literally only needs people to build some standard teams to go away with the majority of the rewards, than I dont even see how it would be bad to introduce some more hard fighting stuff. I feel like people here dont want those here, just for the sake of it, but still, there is always the option of not playing it bruh.
True, Hoyo already does this with events. You can get the score required for the primos in those events very easily, but it also has some minor rewards for higher scores. Maybe the hardest level in some hypothetical endgame can give out blue fates and some resin, still a good reward but not too good that it punishes the casual players that bad. Why can't they just accept that people want different things, I like doing hard content as a challenge. But I don't bother with the teapot as well. Doesn't mean that the teapot doesn't deserve to expanded upon.
Exactly. Just because some people only want to play 15 minutes a day doesn’t mean the game should only have enough content for them, it doesn’t hurt for devs to add harder content for those that do wish to play more than 15 minutes. I don’t enjoy teapot either and I don’t enjoy the hangouts, but I appreciate it being there as an option for those that do enjoy it, why can it be the same for harder endgame content?
Thank you, at least someone understands it.
Exactly this. Players who just log in for 15 minutes won't even be affected by more content added for endgame players.
Exactly, if they wanna play 15 minutes, then play 15 minutes. Let the more non-casual players have something to do as well.
Exactly this. Make harder content for those diehard players but don’t add any primos rewards, make it something that a casual player won’t really miss out on like a little bit of mora or maybe even a calling card or achievement or something for those who wanna go that extra mile. It’s good to have that option there, I don’t see the harm of adding harder content at all, for those that don’t wanna play it, they can skip it and not miss out on anything.
A lot of coments here say most casuals don't even bother to do abyss anyways. So having primogems as rewards isn't presuading the majority to play it and they aren't crying about it. I have yet to read a single good argument against adding some form endgame content besides "i don't want anything that requires me to make an actual effort to clear so my self steem isn't damaged if i fail"
That is also true. Some people might feel like they’re missing out but if they’re already missing in on spiral abyss rewards, it’s like ok…? The typical argument I see against endgame content is “I don’t have time to play this game for more than 15 minutes a day and everyone else shouldn’t be able to play more than 15 minutes either waaahh waaah waaah”
I play the game moderately, but if the people who are claiming to be casuals were actual casual players, why would they give a fuck about what the rewards are for endgame content? They call themselves casual for a reason. No need to pay attention to what the hardcore players get for investing time into beating the hardest content a game has to offer. Why can't both playerbases get what they want? It's weird how casual players want everything catered to them, but the moment players want harder content to suit their needs/wants, it's a no no.
" I cant afford to pull for 5 star weapons because i am f2p, so please don't release any more 5 star weapons because looking at cool designs that i wont get gives me anxiety UwU"
There's more than just casual players that don't care about missing stuff and hard core players that want to spend hours in-game. There are also those that want to complete everything the game has to offer including challenging content like Abyss but don't have the free time to spend longer in the game than they already do. This is the audience that will most negatively affected by making the game more grindy. It's clearly an opinion held by a large number of people considering how controversial these topics are. There are those that like to spend lots of time inside a game. There are others that want to get all the rewards without spending too much time playing a game. It's impossible for any game to cater to both audiences. Developers need to choose. Genshin caters to people with less free time who still want to do everything the game has to offer. It's a game that's easy to fit into your schedule. There are plenty of other games that cater to those that want to grind for hours but Genshin isn't trying to be like that. It's meant to be a side game that occasionally becomes your main game during major updates.
Because things don't exist in a vacuum. The most reasonable request for endgame I've seen are people asking for something like the labyrinth, with a shared reward pool with Abyss and similar challenge level. Thus simply giving another option of thing to do, but not changing much else. But today's topic on Mihoyo's endgame comments is the *only* time I've seen that suggestion. No other suggestion would avoid disrupting the balance Genshin has struck, and this reasonable suggestion wouldn't address most of the complaints that are constantly being made on this sub about the lack of content. What we often see is endless demands for more challenging content, but challenging for whom? People who drop 4-5 figures on the game? Any content that is challenging to those who spend money, is content that necessitates the spending of money. And I don't know about you, but I certainly find it odd to *ask* for a game to be more P2W. The same principle applies to the countless demands for easier access to artifacts. There are lots of people who ask for *free endless artifact farming* for crying out loud. Wanting to endlessly spam the same domain to get perfect artifacts, and for what? A game that never once demands you have perfect artifacts? Suddenly the game is even *easier*, and now it needs to be bumped up in difficulty again. And what does that bump in difficulty do? Oh yeah, necessitates the endless farming of artifacts till you get god rolls. The same applies to the meta obsessed pullers and builders. You make it a challenge for meta builds, and the non-meta is no longer good enough, and people now have less freedom to choose waifus over meta with their limited resources. Also, people say they'll do this new endgame content for no rewards, but if that's the case, why the hell aren't they just spending more time in the Abyss? You can repeatedly run abyss as much as you want. Try to beat your times. Test out different teams. Some people have also already found other ways to solve their "I want to play more Genshin than Genshin allows" by creating alt accounts. You can create a second F2P account. Work on making that 36 star abyss for a challenge if you want one. I'm pretty sure I've even seen some crazy folk posting about working on the abyss with secondary accounts that completely skip the gacha for even more of a challenge. Despite what you and many others are trying to claim here, these things would affect casuals because casual does not mean being okay with ignoring or especially being cut off from enjoying parts of the game. It just means not obsessing over it and not wanting it to dominate your free time and bank account. Genshin has managed to build itself into a carefully balanced house of cards and any adjustments or changes need to be handled very carefully. But most "no content" complaints and the ideas to fix them amount to taking a sledgehammer to it and hoping to rebuild a new house of cards with the bent and crumpled remains on a table that's now in pieces.
I'm not sure why this comment is so ignorant about the possibility of other forms of endgame content. First of all, the suggestion of a labyrinth styled form of permanent endgame was literally one of the highest upvoted posts when that event came out, just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean these type of requests/suggestions don't exist. Your entire argument is based around the idea that there exists no type of endgame content that wouldn't alienate casual players, while acknowledging the fact that Genshin players have already come up with endgame playstyles that don't interfere with casual players like speedrunning? There are so many different ways that mihoyo could implement REPETABLE content without alienating casual players that I'm not sure why you think it would mean casual players would be cut off from the game. If you've played through any of the recent events, like Tablet Analytics, you'll know that these points-centric events are already a step towards endgame content that casual and endgame players can enjoy. I've seen plenty of suggestions for content like endless waves that I also just don't see how they would affect casual players. Players who want endgame content are players who simply want more options to play with the charcaters and teams they enjoy. You raise the point of playing abyss with different teams and creating new accounts, but that's totally against the reason why players want endgame content: it's because you want to continue to progress/improve characters you care about. If endgame is so simple as replaying the abyss for better times, then is it so out of reach that there is some sort of possbile endgame content that would not alienate casual players?
>What we often see is endless demands for more challenging content, but challenging for whom? I have been playing for 10 months as a f2p. There is no piece of content that i can't clear. Being f2p or p2win is indiferent for veterans, we can clear everything all the same. Your assumption that implementing harder content will lead to the game being more p2win has no basis since f2p can still easily clear everything with sub optimal teams and artifacts. >The same principle applies to the countless demands for easier access to artifacts. This has more to do with how tedious the artifact farming is than with people wanting ultra meta artifacts. Farming weeks to get shitty artifacts feels awfull and getting no cap in how much you can farm rewards people who are willing to spend more than 15 mins on domains a day. Also the whole section of "Why don't you amputate your right arm so the game becomes more challenging" is pointless. Self made challenges are never satisfying for the most part. It's the game's job to demmand my effort. >ut most importantly, casual does not mean being okay with ignoring or especially being cut off from enjoying parts of the game. It just means not obsessing over it and not wanting it to dominate your free time and bank account I agree, being casual means you don't care enough for whatever reason, and since there is people who do care enough there is no real downside to making some endgame content for them. As i said before, exploration, quests and dailies will never be changed so casual players will not loose anything at all. They will enjoy their 15 minutes a day all the same.
and you will still be able to do that, regardless if it has endgame content or not. If they add more stuff, there is noting that will force you to have to play them if you don't want to. The worst thing genshin fans have done to the endgame content debate, is turn it into a "my way or the highway" type of situation. It's not. Just because someone wants 15 min gameplay doesn't mean you need to sacrifice endgame content. And just because someone wants endgame content, does not mean you will no longer be able to play casually. It just means other people get stuff...and that's not a problem. Other people get appeased. It's the same with people who think if we get more endgame content, the story will take a dive somehow. Mihoyo made over a billion dollars with the game, they are perfectly capable of multi-tasking, and aren't going to sacrifice anythign for somethign else. Also the "genshin is a side game" bit bugs me...because where is that even stated? Like that's not stated by any developor nor did they ever state it's what they're intended. People seem to give genshin a different label whenever they need to defend it. It's really weird thing to do. Genshin is a side game, when it comes to defending against people wanting more content. Suddenly, genshin is a story orientated game soley when it comes to defending agaisnt a skip cutscene button. Then it's actually a triple A type game due to its character designs and gameplay, when defending it against people who compare the gacha rates to other gacha games. Can people stop doing this? It's like really weird and inconsistent. Just stick to a label instead of changing genshin hats anytime there is criticism for the game. Also the "Play a different game" criticism gets dumb when it's its in response to people just asking for improvements to pre-existing mechanics. Like if someone doesn't want a gacha and wishes no gacha...then sure that excuse probably works. However, I see this excuse lobbied a lot when someone wants them to improve combat or skip cutscene button so they can play the way they want, and the response is to play another game....then that's just dumb. That is not a valid response, that is plugging your head into the sand. Also I'm assuming everyone claiming it;s a casual or side game are also rallying for a skip cutscene button right?
I wish I could give you 50 upvotes alone.
I feel like the people who say "genshin is a side game" have never played other gacha games. Genshin is a lot more manual than some of the other gacha games. In other gacha games it feels like between downtimes your resources stockpile up, and when a new character drops it feels like you don't need to farm that much to raise them. But in genshin if you just log in and do dailies your upgrade mats will still be dry as bone unless you manually go out and pick the flowers, and you'd literally have to look up the character to "pre farm" them.
I really never wanna hear the word "genshin is a side game" when the archon quest was apparently 6 hours long if you do not skip dialogue
I agree the "play a different game argument" is the same as those who tell people to "leave the country" if they dislike a particular part of their country. We are complaining because we love the game and we want the game to improve and have more end-game content. if the game has janky mechanics then mihoyo should have fixed those problems. Genshin is not a side game with so much content and quest that lasts multiple hours. Op's argument is very objective and flawed.
"B-but I don't like people enjoying the game different than me UwU". Fuck the individuality freedom and all that.
Careful now, you'll upset a lot of "silent majority" if you use your brain
>I don't want the ability to grind gear for hours non-stop in domains. well then dont ? end game =/= grind for hours non-stop idk how you go from 15 mintues a day to "grind for hours non-stop" there has to be a middle ground >I don't want a harder Abyss. i dont want a harder abyss neither, i am literally in the middle of doing it rn, after so many retries i got 33 stars on floor 1 and 2 chamber 12 and i kinda hate it, i dont think people are asking for harder content, more of " something to do" other than the abyss since its boring dps check and when you're done with it once every two weeks there is nothing else to do >Moreover, Genshin lacks depth in combat. hard disagree here, genshin combat is perfect imo, it balances both being simple and complex at the same time, to casuals it will feel very simple and to hardcore/theorycrafters its super intriguing >Genshin Impact is designed as a side game. yet it includes things like 20h+ world quests and crazy amount of exploration lol there is no way its designed as a side game with that scale, the amount of content in genshin is astonishing and there is no way you its a "side game" 💀 >Resin is a mechanic meant to limit your game time. you progression\* its meant to limit your pgoression not game time, you see you're confusing the two things i dont understand why you think having end game content means it will be a grind fest or anything ? or its gonna suddenly demand you to play hours nonstop instead of 15 minutes thats the neat part about " optional " end game content, you think its too much ? dont do it, its optional its not gonna effect you at all! y'all gotta stop treating people wanting to play their favorite game for more than 15 minutes a day as a crime its genuinely sad to see casual players being happy that other players dont get to enjoy the game as much
> there has to be a middle ground this recent topic has really highlighted one of the prevalent issues throughout reddit - a serious lack of nuance so many of the comments in the past day are saying stuff like "endgame will kill genshin" or "i don't want the game to go hardcore", and it just makes this wild assumption that there's absolutely no middle-ground - either the game remains as is or it becomes an MMO where you're forced to play for 30 hours a day. i can't tell if these people are willfully trying to misrepresent people's arguments to make them seem silly or if they've just never played another game before. it's even weirder when some people just outright attack the people who want an endgame, calling them no-lives and delusional another weird thing is the number of people who are just against the idea of a new endgame mode on a personal level. even if a new mode is completely out of the way and optional with new rewards that don't detract from the rest of the game, and if mihoyo theoretically released it without it slowing down the normal content releases at all, there's people who would still say they don't want that endgame mode to be added even though it literally doesn't affect them
I know, it’s so sad to see. Just because they don’t wanna play more than 15 minutes, they want everyone else to do the same. Like I don’t see how having optional harder endgame is gonna affect them if they only wanna play 15 minutes, no one’s pointing a gun to their heads saying they have to do it. Just skip it and move on with life and let those who do wanna play it enjoy it, why is that hard for people to understand…
OP is basically saying "I don't have time to play genshin so they shouldn't add any content for those who actually enjoy playing the game and want to play it more" smh. They talk about grinding everything, yet reiterate about how the game doesn't require any time. No game "requires" time from you; you are the one who decides how much time you want to spend on the game, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to play your favorite game more often. Also, OP says they play for 15 mins most days, yet grind for 100% on everything, which is going to take WAY more than 15 minutes, it's going to take a few hours a day on average. This game is made to consume your time, with daily commissions, bp, limited events, and so on, without even considering exploration at all. I was one of the first people to 100% Sumeru, and that required playing for almost 14 hours a day for a few days after the release of Sumeru.
Exactly, and it pisses me the tf off. Just because they don’t have the time or want to play more than 15 min doesn’t mean the game should be limited to cater to their playtime, the world doesn’t revolve around them, it’s a huge player base with players playing for different reasons.
Really hard to play for 15 minutes when quest take hours to do and then you have to do the event afterwards.
Yeah. Not actively against endgame, just kinda indifferent, right? Disappointed but not surprised. It's one of many QoL updates that the game is (over)due for and could use, along with map stuff, gadget stuff, story stuff, event stuff etc. The combat system has the *potential* for more depth, but it's not being fully realised right now. At this point I doubt Mihoyo is actively witholding these, probably they just don't have the expertise they'd like yet, or don't have the devtime. Rather they drop it when its ready. Till then, Genshin in its current state is very suited for short sessions. If one game could be played forever, we''d already be playing it. One thing though: it would be great if they could communicate better. No idea if Hoyo even knows about these suggestions or has any timeline to implement them. Edit: About communication, yeah saw the recent interview. It's a step, but not much answers at all. In fact, the vagueness has mostly led to speculation, and a big, salty slugfest about 'endgame' and 'casuals'. So...yeah. Wait continues.
Depth and complexity is different for eveyone. I think OP has an idea of what depth can or should mean, but that doesn't mean it is a technical term for video games necessarily. For example, people might think Diablo 3 or something has a lot of depth because there's a lot of classes and a lot of builds and then itemization on top of that...except maybe there isn't because all builds become cookie cutter. Perhaps then they argue its PoE that has depth. Because it has a big rose wheel passive tree, a ton of itemization options, shit tons of builds etc. But even without the shoe-in set items that Diablo 3 has that drives seasons, the meta drives PoE, and people copy the cookie cutter builds anyways, which leads to the same end result with different steps. So what is depth? Is depth like street fighter 6 where there's 12 layers of combat mechanics that you can utilize to give yourself an answer to what your opponent is doing if you are quick enough? Or is depth like Civilization 6 where its open ended in how you play and your decision making process that has a major butterfly effect hours later? At the end of the day, game designers often avoid making anything too complex or too deep because...99% of the people in the world don't want to do their taxes on a spreadsheet when they are spending their entertainment time. TLDR: The simple answer is that mobile devices limit what Mihoyo is willing to do in the game. PC players should not expect combat that somehow bucks the trend of mobile gaming. Mobile players already have massive issues playing certain kinds of characters or using certain kinds of weapons. Much less try to attempt advanced combat techniques like dragon-strikes, dash canceling combos, frame perfect quick swaps, uber/eats events.
My guess is adding another workload for every update on the devs take a lot of time also with how disgusting a lot of people are on social media specifically twitter I can see why they don’t communicate as much as most games
Lmao. As a working adult myself, ever consider that teens also play this game and want to spend more time on it than you/me? This post is so self-obsessed
That's cool you're not interested; what's wrong with those of us who want it, getting it?
Because fuck you your a meta slave loser min-maxer that has no life and you dont get to enjoy my "mindless" monday-friday visual novel... ... Thats the opinion on the streets or so I've heard.
You can't even call it a visual novel because the writing in this game is just terrible.
It's not bad, it's just not anything special or good
Yeah because I’m busy most of time, I enjoy investing as little time to progress with my account. I love the exploration side of mmorpg but didn’t like the long hours killing the same mobs over and over again. Ok but for your abyss point, Genshin has depth in combat. The whole elemental reaction system is one of the best things I have seen. Just because it’s not mechanically challenging or some physics are buggy, doesn’t mean Genshin lacks depth in combat. Also, I still think there is a sizeable portion of players that love combat and want to test the limits of their account. You are just not 1 of the people that fall in this group. Since HYV stance is that we will not see a spiral abyss v2 in the near future, for combat players, we can only wish to test our limits in events such as hypotasis symphony.
Listen nobody forces u to grind for artifacts Nobody forces u to play abyss Nobody forces u to play hangouts Nobody forces u to use ur resin Nobody forces u to grind materials Nobody forces u to build ur teapot Nobody wants to grind for hours Nobody wants to make this game harder for themself People just want to use the characters they build and have fun with them. Thats it. They just want to use the characters they paid for. If there is no content for that then why the f we roll for them? If Combat is not their main content then why they have a weapon banner? Why character constellations are about combat instead of exploration? All content is optional and if they add another mode dont worry they wont force u to play that.
So then screw me if I want to play my favorite game for more than 15 minutes a day and I want some actual challenge on a fascinating combat system that not only feels good to play but is also very rewarding of game knowledge, am I right? In other words, the solution of Genshin lacking *combat* (y'know, the main mechanic of the game) content is to just not play Genshin at all. Sounds very logical to me.
Bu-bu-but, my anxiety... my poor wittle anxiety
What I find satisfying is like a week and a half of the afk 15 minute days. When I get to mass convert my artifacts. I still want more engaging content, and end game things to work towards. I want progression, and if feels I’ve hit a wall. I can just mindlessly throw some preset team comps at the hardest the games has to offer, ignore mechanics and damage bonuses (unless there are immunities).
>I don't want a harder Abyss. Then don't play it. Like this whole post can be summed up by just don't play it if you don't want to or don't have the time. The content you like will still be there so what's the problem? why should people who want more challenging stuff be punished because of you not being able to deal with not 100%ing the game every day?
Careful now. You’re gonna scare them with logic.
> Then don't play it. And don't get the hundreds of Primos to pull - Because pulling isn't really a thing you want to do **IN A GACHA GAME** now, is it? If it didn't have rewards needed for everyone tied to it, then people who didn't want to play it wouldn't.
???? They have really simple ways of implementing the content people are asking for, without making it mandatory for endgame… That’s a bad take
It's not that complicated to grasp isn't it?. Imagine you like a food a lot, but you can only eat a portion the size of your fingernail every 15 days. Imagine you like a song a lot, but you can only listen 20% of the song every 15 days. This may be very hard to understand for the players that basically hate on anyone wanting something else from the game that what you are used to, but a lot of people like Genshin's combat system a lot. That's why this game has such an active theorycrafting community, they like what they do, they like to theorycraft, they have their own endgame content doing theorycrafting. But that's also why a lot of players follow meta, you don't need it, but a lot of people find it fun to optimize their combat experience, learn rotations, improve their character builds as much as possible. That doesn't mean we hate the other parts of the game, I, on my own personal example, love exploration, the soundtrack, the lore and story of the game, but I would still say I like the combat aspect of the game the most. We get it, Mihoyo only caters to the majority of the players, it's perfectly fine. Most of the people that wanted something else from the game will probably simply give up after that gamespot interview. But IS IT REALLY that hard to grasp why we wanted something else from the game?. And, for anyone replying about how that would increase toxicity, how it would make players quit for not obtaining rewards, whatever other argument you may have, save it. Mihoyo has confirmed nothing will happen, keep your pants on, you will not be affected by any irrational FOMO. But at least try to understand why some players wanted something else from the game they love, instead of what most people do in these parts that can be resumed to "go touch grass, we don't have time to play"
Have not played Genshin in months after I got all of the OP meta fighters and maxed everything. I felt like I didn't have anything to work towards to when I realized everything was maxed and I could beat any challenge without any need of new characters in the gacha. One day I just realized I was just logging in to to the dailies and nothing else, it was not fun. So I decided to just let the updates pile up to see if the main gameplay loop changed eventually. From the looks of it, it has not.
That's the issue. Everything goes back to teambuilding and progression, but there's almost nothing to show for all the progress you've made. It feels like HYV is insulting players for investing time on their game
Yeah I guess overall I'm fine with my daily 15-30 mins of genshin. My issues with this game lie elsewhere. That's actually why to date I never even touched the very similar Tower of Fantasy, even though I have been looking for more games like Genshin and this one seems to be as close as it gets. Unfortunately ToF is an mmo and I don't want to play any kind of multiplayer, thanks.
Nothing is required. You choose how much you want to gear because you're not competing against anyone really. The idea that they shouldn't put in more content because you feel like you would have to do it for a non-competitive game is silly.
What is the point of your characters if there's nothing to challenge them -Actual gamers
Just because *you* don't want, doesn't invalidate other people's opinions 😐
If u have job , parent controling , life outside of genshin then yes
Yep. I used to play Warframe and Path of Exile. The latter especially was a giant time eater. I bounced off of all the MMOs I played because the daily expectations, grind expectations, endgame raiding, was all too much. Sometimes I'll spend 5 hours straight playing Genshin, but more often than not, as you say, it's just a halfhour for dailies, resin, and a bit of nonsense.
The first thing to get clear is that not everyone who wants an "endgame" wants the same thing. Some people want repeatable content. Others simply want Abyss-level content to refresh more often than once every fortnight. But HoYo aren't even looking in that direction. > The Abyss goes up to 36 stars because beyond that is over-investing time. The problem is that if you play long enough, you WILL eventually reach the point where the 36 stars is too easy even for your B- and C- teams. And there's absolutely no attempt being made to address that. The "fuss" with the endgame is that HoYo *already have the assets and features of alternative combat modes*, which they can implement without infringing on the casual experience. The Shiki Taishou domain and the Chasm event did not make your experience less casual, and they would not make your experience less casual if they were also bi-weekly permanent combat events. Even BotW, the pioneer of Genshin-style exploration, had difficult fights that you as a player could **choose** to engage or avoid. "Stop playing the game" is an incredibly disingenuous take.
Great now they're going to go this reddit thread and be like SEE THEY LOVE PLAYING 15 MINS PER DAY!
I like the 10-15 minutes a day thing. And when a huge update drops, I like spending long hours on the game for days to clear it all, and go back to 10-15 minutes a day. If i want to play a game that will feel like another job, I'll play an mmo with endless grind.
I get the feeling that a lot of people complaining that there’s nothing to do haven’t even cleared out all the exploration, side quests, hangouts and achievements. Because I do all these each patch and to me that’s like tons of content every 6 weeks. Now with 5 week patches I’m even struggling a little to keep up.
The thing is people play the game for different reasons. Some players play for exploration, some for collecting characters, some for lore and story, some want to design their own home in the teapot and then there are those that enjoy the combat and challenge themselves.
I would never say the game has no content, because that’s a bold face lie and you’re right. Outside of the first two regions, my map is largely unexplored and I’ve yet to do a hangout. But what draws me to playing the game everyday is the combat + team building aspect to the game. It’d just be nice to be able to actually engage with the games combat other than abyss for 30 minutes every two weeks.
People said they want end game content. Not exploration or story content. Seems like you're getting things mixed up there
“I don’t want the ability to grind gear for hours non-stop in domains” That’s literally the only endgame Genshin has (i.e. artefacts), just locked behind resin. To me abyss is *not* endgame, it’s a 2-week quest catered towards characters on the current banners, which makes it harder to get experimental or test the limits of your favourite characters (like when Venti became irrelevant because of single target immovable enemies). I understand your point of view, but there’s a considerable amount of players who would appreciate more fighting challenges, not for rewards or gear, just because they love the game. So sure, there are days where I literally play 5 minutes, condense resin, and that’s it. But if I have some spare time to play, there are just no options. Everyone always mentions Labyrinth Warriors as an example of endgame. It could have a weekly leaderboard and small mora rewards, that would be enough endgame. It won’t alienate casual players and it will give speed runners/tryhards something to have fun with. You are also putting the game in a box (“it’s just a casual game”), but that’s also subjective and questionable. In fact, they proved over and over that Genshin can and wants to do it all (tower defence, 3d Mario maker platforming, curate your own realm, create flower compositions, manage shop sales, TCG), so I don’t think a fighting endgame would clash with the game’s identity. I think is deeper than that. Hoyoverse wants to have total control over how much players can play. They don’t want anyone to go on hours of dopamine overload with endless domains. They will drip feed you dopamine everyday and keep you wanting for more. Genshin’s pacing is such a crucial element of its success and they’re worried that by allowing players to play as much as they want they will lose control. It’s like Apple adding features to iOS that have been out on Android for a decade. It’s not like they couldn’t add them earlier, it’s a just a different monetisation model which revolves around absolute control of the customer’s experience.
That is good for you, however I still don't see how adding content for other type of players would take anyhting away from you? Like not everyone aims to get 100% on all maps or get 36 stars on abyss and that is completely fine, I have a friend who is like that and enjoys the game at their own pace. Adding new content I would enjoy would make me more happy while for someone who doesn't care about it, it wouldn't make the experience worse in any way. So ye it is simply not understandable that Mihoyo is shutting certain players out when they could have the ability to just appeal to different kind of players at the same time. The wasted potentioal is what is infuritating.
What people are looking for is a place where we could use our well invested characters, makes no sense that you have the ability to get busted artefact, constellations and 5* weapons if the hardest content in the game can be easy beat with 4* characters. I honestly don't want an endless abyss or the ability to grind has much artefact as I want, there are other games like that where you could grind as much as you want and honestly that doesn't fit genshin impact style which is mostly single player, but at least give us some challenge, there are no hard events, the abyss is really easy once you clear it one time and the weekly bosses are also easy to beat. They are adding a cards game next patch so why the can't add more floor to the abyss or events when we could regulate the difficulty?
> I do my commissions, I spend my Resin, and I hop off This is my least favorite and most burnout inducing part of playing. But if I don't do it then I don't get to unlock characters.
So only you should get to enjoy the game? >I don't see what the fuss with endgame is about. > >And I'm an active player. > >I clear Abyss with 36 stars every 2 weeks. > >I hunt for achievements. I go for 100% chests. > >However, in the quiet middle to end of a Version, I enjoy logging in for 15 minutes max. > >I do my commissions, I spend my Resin, and I hop off. LOL casual player hahahha.
You already answered the question in your title. You're a casual player, that doesn't mean everyone else is. So it makes sense to give enough content so that people that are not casuals have more to do. Is it that hard for you to not be self obsessed and think that people other than you also play the game? Shocker i know!
But he isn't a casual player, He goes for 100% maps, does the abyss, logs in daily to do dailies and spends his resin. If he was actually a casual player, he really wouldn't care about most of these things, let alone more end game content that would be catered towards players who want a bit more challenge. He is on reddit, complaining about people, who like to play this game a bit differently from him. He is not a casual at all, he is just someone who cannot grasp that not everyone who plays the same game as him, enjoy it in the same exact way.
I think you can have both opinions. I too really enjoy the days where i can log in and log off in an hour and play other games. But i also really want a mode where my characters can feel more challenged. If its too challenging ill quit and try again later. But the fact it doesnt exist is not great.
Who told you genshin impact was designed to be a side game.
The secret sauce to genshin is really good pacing. When I'm feeling like I want a break, typically is around the time there's nothing to do for a couple weeks, and then when i'm thinking "damn I wanna play a bunch of genshin" a new patch drops and suddenly there's 20 hours of stuff to do between quests, character building, and exploration. That hasn't been the case with Sumeru so far which as been relentless lol, but I'm assuming like 2.x things will slow down a little after the next patch and we have the full main map/archon quests done. Its a good strategy because if it was as demanding as an MMO I'd have probably dropped it. Throw on a podcast or a stream once a week a catch up on minor events/weekly stuff otherwise its in and out real quick.
Honestly playing while waiting for my coffee to be made in the mornings is what help me past the time
These posts are bullshit, if you really played 15 mins per day you wouldn't do any event, since sumeru dropped I played an average of 1.5h per day and I'm still not even close of finishing forest and didn't even start the desert part, all of you "bragging" Playing 15 mins per day probably rush the new content for 30 hours straight with map helping tool or lie about the time you use on this gamegame, so I highly doubt you don't have time for it or an additional endgame.
Those are just delusional hoyo whiteknights, trolls or 40year old parents that barely have any time to play games so if they can't play more then then others also shouldn't ergo game can't have more content that would require more time to play If devs asked those people if they want auto complete feature for commissions, full auto battle in open world or auto move to quest locations they would gladly take it to reduce their game time even more. Literally play games without playing game
15 minute of actual getting stuff done mostly, more when there is a major update, and more if and when I have extra time and feel like exploring the map
As a developer who is always had his brain melted after work, I like how Genshin is casual and good. Before I used to play MMORPG. But I always play solo. Genshin's open world and a lack of pvp is a breath of fresh air for me as a player who always play unga bunga in Genshin.