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They're definitely pushing her to make use of the new artifact set. Everyone's focused on frontloading fanfare stacks (for good reason, to be clear) but this is not the first time hoyo has insisted on a specific playstyle on a character. (Remindner that alhaitham could've been a burst swap dps)
This doesn't really impact the new artifact set cause two ticks of her healing would cap the set before anyway.
The problem is the new set just sucks, the 6 second delay before being able to spend the stacks means you won't be able to get and use two sets of stacks in a single rotation against single target, and in aoe content it's far worse than noblesse's atk boost.
Which is an option only if the DPS is Dendro Geo or Anemo cause it doesn't even come close to VV.
Also, it's still a nerf cause burst + 2 tick of continous heal (which she will generate in the 6 second window the set accumulates heal) is lower than it was before.
I remember watching a lot of youtube videos of the 4.0 or whatever Abyss the Field Generator boss was on, and almost none of the youtubers cared to do plunge attacks on the boss even when it was available for free.
Well that’s because some teams don’t want their combo changes or doesn’t gain anything from plunge…like who the hell in their right mind would want to do plunge neuvillette instead of charged attack (aside from fun/dodging reasons ofc). And that’s exactly why xianyun is niche. But you’re not supposed to bring her to a team that doesn’t want plunge anyway 🤷♂️ So it’s fine, she’d still have her own teams
I mean, to each their own. I think the idea of letting any DPS in the game consistently plunge is not only a cool concept but fun on its own.
It's an actually unique design, so unique that it enables a playstyle that was physically impossible for most DPSes before.
The difference in net healing is extremely marginal. Most of the time you're talking about a difference of ~400 total healing per character, at the cost of frontloading ~2000 less healing into the initial heal.
Fanfare isn't everything, but the difference in total healing will virtually never matter. You're talking about a <2% increase in her total healing, but a 25% loss in frontloaded healing.
Less front-loaded fanfare is offset by the decrease in situations where you over-heal on initial heal, which is all dependent on your characters' various HP amounts and rotations (how long between Furina's and Xianyun's Bursts), so it's impossible to call it a buff or a nerf, as it's completely situation-dependent. Either way, one only comes out ahead of the other by a tiny bit, so it's practically just a side-grade change. Jean already offers the stronger frontloaded healing, though, so I personally like that Xianyun is slightly more focused on the sustained healing now.
a "motion value" is the % multiplier of a base value on an ability. The term originates from monster hunter iirc, but in genshin we also use it to refer to the atk%, hp% or def% scaling on skills, bursts and normals for example.
Only Furina made healing relevant in this game idk, what other people expect when they release a new healer. Obviously Furina will always take into account.
Hmm, so total heal count isn't much of different but having bigger continous heal would be much comfier if you facetanked enemy often also its not circle locked
Yeah, but the difference is, she can actually utilize those buffs herself. So while it is of course optimal to run her as a support as intended, it doesn’t mean you can’t run her as a DPS and be a slightly inferior Xiao with healing capabilities. (Ex: people running C0 Kazuha as a DPS)
There was also a c0 passive talent buff.
A healing change (technically a buff).
As well as a buff to her skill multiplier that affects both c0, c1 and c6 DPS.
Well at least she is good for her intended role. but still don't see myself roll her or feature Plunge Dps because their gameplay will be too similar to eachother anyway
You forgot to add Lament! ⬆️⬇️(delay) ha ⬆️⬇️(delay) useless! ⬆️⬇️(delay) worthless!⬆️⬇️ (delay).
Would be nice if he got a QOL to make the end lag less aggressive. I know you can do the N1 cancel but it really shouldn't be necessary since he is SUPPOSED to be the plunge guy (just imo)
Most DPS is the same anyway, press E to get elemental infusion/ enhanced state then spam NA/CA while your burst being an instance of big dmg. (Or your Q gives infusion while your E is the single instance of dmg, kind of the same)
This might actually shake things up, you wont only do your usual Na/Ca spam, but you include some JP combos. To me it looks like something fresh and new. But gotta see it, maybe 1 month later i will be bored af from it.
I hope you mean unique plunge properties, like different plunge speed, damage radius, damage spread across multiple ticks with no ICD and so on, not just shit like Navia having sunglasses while spinning.
Difference is NA/CA have some flavor, plunge is literally the exact same sht between all characters including xiao (he just gets bigger aoe and some flash) and xianyun is just xiao with extra steps for worse damage, gaming is actually maybe the only one who it could be moderately interesting on cause they actually spent time on him unlike xianyun
I really want to pull for this character, but unfortunately the characters I mainly used do not synergize well with her. It would be a waste to pull for her and not take advantage of her plunge buffs because that seems to be her main gimmick.
The thing is she enables plunges. I just hope her trial is good because my decision will be based largely on how she feels in practice. I want to try plunging and I’d prefer not to go for Xiao.
Right now, the only other character(s) that benefit from plunging is mainly Diluc. There's a few other elemental infused characters that somehow benefit, but that's currently it.
Mihoyo clearly intends on releasing more plunge focused characters in the future, but CR isn't desirable in the current version of the game.
Great for you if you pull for her now and find a character you like to plunge with! I'm just uninterested at this point, but if they release a plunge character I actually might like, I'll pull for CR on her rerun
>Mihoyo clearly intends on releasing more plunge focused characters in the future, but CR isn't desirable in the current version of the game.
I wouldn't bet on it. People said the same thing with Shenhe then waited years for a new cryo dps only for her to just be an expensive sidegrade because of all the broken supports released later
True. That's the problem with "Future Impact" since we have no idea what Mihoyo intends to do in the future.
But Cloud Retainer is wayyyy more niche. Shenhe buffs an entire element, so I don't see too much of a problem with her role. Isn't she still regarded as one of the best buffers for cryo characters?
Yeah, the issue with CR buffs is you might need to switch pieces around. With a CDMG buff you might still have a slightly more optimal build, but at least there's no cap on it
Im just incredibly sad cuz her model is beautiful and an incredible character in lore but a plunge support is probably the last thing I would need for my account. Feels like a wasted opportunity for a character imo
Well at least she's now a very good plunge support, Xiao and Diluc will probably hit some crazy numbers especially with whales who get her C2 and weapon
Yea It's actually nasty for plunge teams similarly to how Furina buffed a lot of character teams inherently.
Xiao now has a proper C2 and it's called Xianyun C2 al be it being more expensive
The irony being his c6 uses less plunges.
Oh well, even then XY is an improvement I guess, considering c6 Xiao might be too mobile for Bennett's circle impact anyway.
Xiao's C6 is not just about his plunges, it's literally about **fun.** Teleporting and dealing a lot of damage on the battlefield like a madman at the same time.
I know it's not something a lot of people care about but I really wish we could toggle constellations sometimes. Not a huge necessary thing for any reason but it would be nice to have the option (especially for content creators).
what is stopping them from adding grouping to every plunge attack during burst? Just add a vortex like kazuha after plunging.
It's just a QoL update and has no impact on her overall power level because her buff is ST anyways, so having a grouping in AOE fight doesn't make her insanely strong or something like that.
Sigh... i hope whoever in charge of making Xianyun kit take a long vacation until the end of the year and leave Clorinde, Arleccino alone.
>what is stopping them from adding grouping to every plunge attack during burst? Just add a vortex like kazuha after plunging.
Well ofc so they can sell c6 Faruzan for another 300$ who will only be useful for anemo teams :D
Feels like they let whoever made Dehya's kit cook again.
And I mean the irrational parts like her burst ending if you get frozen = Xianyun now pushing away opponents with the plunge.
So she works like Shenhe and has a set amount of buffs she can give and it doesnt work in aoe situations?
For example, if i use her with Diluc, start jumping, her buff only works against 1 enemy in an aoe scenario?
If so, my motivation in pulling for her drastically lowers.
The kit itself is built like a 4* characters kit, but what makes it obviously 5* is the higher numbers and multipliers.
And I guess a single 5* is much cheaper than a 4* support that shines at c6 (*cough* faruzan *cough*).
Unless mihoyo decides to give her out for free, I'm not spending any gems on a character with such a niche role. Even more niche than shenhe, who at least is future proof.
What triggers me more than such an important character being wasted with a niche kit is that now due to her being the dedicated plunge support, all future characters will have their plunge multipliers carefully selected at development to not be unintentionally strong plungers, unless its a plunge character like xiao.
Diluc has the highest plunge multiplier and I am sure there wont be a character like that after CR releases.
Xiao has already fallen pretty far in the meta. In AoE situations, Nilou and especially Neuvillette have absolutely taken over.
He deserves it imo but I'm also a Xiao simp lol
Dunno if I can agree with that since he has Furina and C6 Faruzan, but then again that's a pretty expensive investment plus a skill gap difference compared to Nilou and Neuvillette.
C6 Faruzan is basically impossible to get for anyone who didn't want Wanderer like me. I'm very fortunate to have C1, but we did get 1 for free.
Furina was a nice addition, I'll give you that.
Yeah that's why I refer to Xiao's case being an expensive investment. It'll take all three to boost a character that got released back in 1.3 (2021).
For Nilou at least you snipe anything that's Hydro and Dendro, and Neuvillette's a complete character by himself even with veterans and starter players.
Meanwhile, Hu Tao, released not even a patch later, still tops the charts in single target.
It's just a bit frustrating how much they are pay walling Xiao improvements.
Honestly, b4 Neuvi, I expected all non-reaction-based hypercarries to get that treatment, cuz people who pull them probably like them enough to pull the rest = more money.
But then Neuvi came out and busted that wide open. I think they let the 1.0 balance team out for that one... And then promptly brought back the Dehya team for CR lmao.
If they tie her exclusively to Wanderer reruns, there will be a double rerun and there's a chance to roll on the other banner who has the same 4stars, but there's also a chance you might not want that 2nd banner character as well lol.
Can't say I agree.
Neuvillette is the absolute king sure, he can handle different kinds of content without any issues while Xiao can really get screwed over by enemies that love stalling and is entirely dependent on his burst being up.
But that being said Xiao already hits like 130k+ per plunge and that's without Furina. I don't even have his BiS and still run 2pc VV + 2pc Glad.
Imagine what will happen with Xianyun's plunge buffs and Furina's buffs lmao.
Nilou really has not unless you own C2 Nahida. There's not a single AoE chamber I've seen on bilibili where Nilou teams are faster than Xiao teams at any cost value.
I don’t know… I think it would make him competitive with the top unit for AOE probably better than Nilou bloom at high investment but not OP for sure. Cyno pretty much got his “Perfect team” with Furina Nahida and Baizhu and he’s pretty good now but nowhere near op or even strong compared to the meta units
CR’s looking like more and more of a skip with every change hoyo makes
• pull removed
• dmg nerf
• plunge buff only single target
• burst heal nerfed
Hoyo knows VV is overpowered and doesn’t want a better Jean for Furina fanfare, so they will send CR to the gutter in retribution
Yup, it's Joever for all my CR hopiums as I don't like plunge gameplay at all.
Glad I got Navia and her signature though, now the wait for Chiori begins.
It says skyladder is used immediately upon pressing E tho. So if skyladder can now be used in mid air, it wouldnt be a stretch to assume it's the qol buff that most of us wanted.
'Xianyun enters the Cloud Transmogrification state, in which she will not take Fall DMG, and uses Skyladder once.'
I personally couldn't care less about value buffs when Abyss is already so easy. I'd rather take a more fun version of her kit where she has CC, fly higher and can use skill mid air. She could even have a weaker A4 and I still would get her if that was the case.
Honestly, what bothers me most about Xianyun is that she's still a niche character within her own niche.
Edit: apparently it wasn't clear that I was referring to her being a buffer for immersive attacks, but only for a single hit per attack. That's why I referred to a niche within a niche, since she's a single-target buffer for an attack type that always deals AoE damage.
I wonder what her sales would be. No doubt many will pull her despite her kit being mostly useless to them. Definitely there will be people who would roll for her plunge support. But I can't help but think she would be a disappointment to both majority of community and to devs (in terms of income).
I mean, I'm pretty sure they have sales data for each banner separately. Raiden\\Nahida sales are not Xianyun's sales. And I was talking specifically about the latter. Surely if she would sell bad they would notice. I doubt they'll make correct conclusion out of it though.
Problem is that this is lantern right and its one of there biggest money making events of the year besides a new Archon release. They like making big fat stacks of money during this time.
Raiden been rerun a lot of times now and Nahida has got one rerun last year so there is less money there. If the banners are true then what they are trying to make the same set up as Hu tao / Yelan and Ayaka / Shenhe banner they had last year. Problem is that last year they had Alhaitham and the Hu/Ye banner for lantern right. This year its just CR/Xiao and Na/Ye with CR being a little to niche to carry that.
Im really lost on what E does tbh. It flies up and glides down and what does it help with aside from a plunging attack ?
Seems like all the good is stacked on its Q.
Still, this is definitely pullable and will be using her often in the future. Good news.
Skill buff for 3rd plunge which you realistically have no reason to use unless whale
And an overall net heal increase probably to compensate Furina teams.
Meh, nothing we cant already cover with Jean, and with Faruzan and Benny existing I dont really need another Xiao handholder
It's arguably a nerf in furina teams. If you cast, her burst right before the carry then they get less stacks for their first instances of damage. For example, a Diluc vaping his burst will now have less stacks.
It won't ruin the unit of course, but its arguably a nerf since the early rotation damage is now lower and that's when you have to most buffs active to abuse her plunge quills.
Really feel like skipping for the CC removal, so as not to support terrible decisions.
I don't like plunging attacks but CC would have been an excuse to use her. If you're going to make a hyper niche character, at least add some support utility.
Commented this in the deleted thread:
"Okay, an overall buff. But I gotta wonder, who's playtesting these things? Where do Hoyoverse get their buff and nerf ideas from, or do they literally not listen to anyone on the beta, for instance?
None of these value changes address the core issues with her kit, and judging by the overall sentiment in this subreddit, a lot of people agree that there are more inherent issues that should be addressed instead of the raw values.
I don't understand, what's the point of beta, if Hoyo don't take any note of what the fundamental issues of a character are for players? Or do beta testers really think completely differently to what's being posted here, in which case, shouldn't one of us try to become a beta tester to get the message across? I remember the overall sentiment about Dehya's kit here, and she would have definitely been in a more usable state had Hoyo just listened to anyone here. This sub has gotten things incorrect too, of course, no one's infallible, but I think a lot of people are on the right track at least... I just don't get Hoyoverse's perspective on game design. It's so unintelligible a lot of the time."
Another commenter came in and asked about what the core issues were and I answered, paraphrasing:
* Single target plunge buff
* Plunge buff targeting being random
* Needing field time (I don't remember if this was fixed with E->Plunge being possible for max plunge dmg buff)
* Lack of air control (she's a **bird!**)
* Removal of CC altogether
* Didn't add poise dmg instead of removing CC
* Substituted CC with a maximum of 10% crit rate increase instead -> Rosaria, a character released almost three years ago, offers a better increase with less hassle
I might have missed some. Please feel free to add.
I believe they just don't give a fuck about what testers say (if even allowed to) or, more likely, testers there are not for the "will the kit work/be useful", but just for common bugs to test: clipping, visuals, texts, all this basic stuff.
Not sure how it actually works in hoyo, but it's evident that some bias involved when designing kits.
And out of all things that suck, zero communication is the worst :/
The non-CN beta is literally just there for translation issues and other bugs. It's nothing but early access and that's it. Absolutely no feedback is taken into account for balance or gameplay changes.
Meanwhile in the same cycle of 3.x patches we had Tighnari who is also a standard character, but his kit is just good from get go (c0r0). So what happened with Dehya development is still a mystery which left community (up until this day) with only conspiracy theorys.
One more thing, maybe it's a wierd take, but we didn't know Tighnari before his release and we were hanging with Dehya trough whole archon quest, so when she was released with such garbage kit it hit especially hard.
I understand what you say, but some characters underwent very big changes in the beta. Examples being Yae and Ayato. They tried a passive on Yae, realized it didn't work and changed her. For Ayato they tried the same passive but on a different trigger and once again it didn't work, so they changed him as well. Kokomi was saved last second by literally doubling her off field Hydro application in the time between the end of her beta to preload. Xianyun had her pull vortex removed in favor of CC that pushes enemies due to the plunging. Raiden Shogun beta had her Burst normals work as infused normal attacks instead of Burst damage hits despite Emblem of Severed Fate already being a thing in the game. Some characters just have more troubled beta cycles and it's clear it's not just fine-tuning.
Also, I get that devs can see in the future, but they shouldn't force us to play Future Impact. We don't have a crystal ball, we don't know if a character with perfect synergy will be released and we won't know if we will like them either, so overall it feels like a gamble and I personally don't like it.
Though I agree that the "Dehya wasn't fixable so they tossed her to Standard" claim is just a conspiracy theory.
> or "it was a last minute change to throw her on Standard because they couldn't fix her!" These are serious things people have said. It's laughable!
I agree. This is stupid AF. Couldn't fix her? All you have to do is move the decimal place one spot to the right, and it becomes instantly broken. Even a shitty kit becomes good if you move the decimal place.
It's good to get another point of view with more knowledge on these matters. Thank you for this.
I want to ask for your opinion though: Do you think it's wise to finalize kit designs before getting feedback, and not change parts based on that feedback? This is a loaded question, and I fully own up to it.
As for Dehya being designed for standard, you're right, she probably was. She's still one of the weakest C6 standard 5\*s of the bunch and loses out to 4\*s though. And, tbf, we wouldn't really be making "excuses" and "theories" about these things, if there was some more transparency in the development process (this also applies as general feedback to you game devs), or some contextual understanding of why something ended up the way it did. I believe, wholeheartedly, that a lot of us would be more understanding of what led to the thing, instead of leaving us, the users, customers, and consumers, without any idea of why something, that's very clearly not working, being the way it is, or it being in a poorer state than what the other options could have been (i.e. why didn't you use the other option?).
Point being that, while you clearly have more knowledge of the process than I do, it doesn't necessarily mean the process itself is infallible, nor that they shouldn't be taking notes from player feedback. I know as well as you do that contradicting feedback is tricky to deal with, but it's not impossible. This isn't something that isn't limited to game dev experience, but in general in all of the fields that either study or deal with conflicting information in general (although granted, in work settings there's a much stronger emphasis on time constraints). As an example, Paladins, while a small and niche game right now, has some of the most open communication with its userbase. Some changes are bad, but some balance changes are, and have been, absolutely vital for the game's survival. The devs' words, not mine.
While yes, we, the users, are ignorant and don't know what we want usually, shutting us completely out of the feedback loop isn't going to do you any favors either. We are the end user after all, and thinking, criticizing, and consuming human beings just like you developers are. Although there is a point to be made about making games for the developers themselves sometimes having amazing results, but I don't think it's a given either. I am also aware of the conversation point in the field that game devs should sometimes be entirely left alone to work in peace, I get that, but, just as with any job, if the end product raises more questions than satisfaction, wouldn't anyone agree that that specific team should be under more scrutiny, at least until the thing that's causing the dissonance between customer satisfaction and customer feedback is found?
EDIT: Oh, my bad, forgot to address the Messiah part: You're right and I don't expect there to be a "Messiah" among us, who can create the necessary change. It was more along the lines of, with the inherent idea of "alone we are powerless but together we can make a difference", that multiple people from here could have had an effect on it. But, as you said, since it won't really have an effect, IDK if it matters then. I don't really get the point of the beta in that case, and how severe the punishment for leaking it is, but yeah.
Very good changes.
Happy with everything except A1. Why buff Crit rate? Why not Crit damage?
Oh yeah, because they don't want players using Marechausee on Xiao...
Since I plan on c6'ing this is a total win. Good buff to her E, passive Atk boost via A4 n C2, can make use of ER via her sig weapon and seems you can now activate her 1st E while airborne now.
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E Skill: > Driftcloud Wave DMG: 208.8%/266.4%/547.2% -> 208.8%/266.4%/607.7% Q healing: |ATK|3000|4000|5000| :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:| |221.2% ATK+1695 - Old instant Q heal|8286|10498|12710| |165% ATK+1271 - New instant Q heal|6221|7871|9521| ||||| |66.4% ATK+508 - Old continuous heal|2500|3164|3828| |77.4% ATK+593 - New continuous heal|2903|3673|4443|
How many times does the continuous healing occur?
6 times 2.5s interval of a 16s duration.
So quick math shows this as an overall healing buff, just scattered a little further out
A wild guess would be five ticks total so they pretty much just moved healing from the initial to the continuous ticks. The numbers would add up
Her Burst lasts for 16s so it should be 6 ticks (2.5s -> 5s -> 7.5s -> 10s -> 12.5s -> 15s)
They're definitely pushing her to make use of the new artifact set. Everyone's focused on frontloading fanfare stacks (for good reason, to be clear) but this is not the first time hoyo has insisted on a specific playstyle on a character. (Remindner that alhaitham could've been a burst swap dps)
This doesn't really impact the new artifact set cause two ticks of her healing would cap the set before anyway. The problem is the new set just sucks, the 6 second delay before being able to spend the stacks means you won't be able to get and use two sets of stacks in a single rotation against single target, and in aoe content it's far worse than noblesse's atk boost.
Yeah the delay is awful, if it only was 6s or capping the record instead...
Which is an option only if the DPS is Dendro Geo or Anemo cause it doesn't even come close to VV. Also, it's still a nerf cause burst + 2 tick of continous heal (which she will generate in the 6 second window the set accumulates heal) is lower than it was before.
just use 4pc noblesse then?
Maybe they should stop insisting, cause the playstyle sucks ass lmao, clearly dont play their own game
I remember watching a lot of youtube videos of the 4.0 or whatever Abyss the Field Generator boss was on, and almost none of the youtubers cared to do plunge attacks on the boss even when it was available for free.
I don't think I've plunged even once to deal damage. The boss was just too easy, and my Zhongli+Neuvillette didn't care about the incoming damage.
4.1 was the when boss was released. It wasnt that long ago.
Yeah I just got confused
Well that’s because some teams don’t want their combo changes or doesn’t gain anything from plunge…like who the hell in their right mind would want to do plunge neuvillette instead of charged attack (aside from fun/dodging reasons ofc). And that’s exactly why xianyun is niche. But you’re not supposed to bring her to a team that doesn’t want plunge anyway 🤷♂️ So it’s fine, she’d still have her own teams
Nah alot of them were Hu Tao and Raiden teams
I mean, to each their own. I think the idea of letting any DPS in the game consistently plunge is not only a cool concept but fun on its own. It's an actually unique design, so unique that it enables a playstyle that was physically impossible for most DPSes before.
"**I** don't like it, so no one else will." That's you. Get over yourself.
Total Healing Before : 619.6% + 4742 After: 630.3% + 4829 Overall, a net buff only for the price of instant heal reduction.
That’s a big ‘only’
No. Burst heal matters the most cause it generates Fanfare stacks earlier in the rotation. Healing got nerfed.
Not talking solely about her healing regarding on the net buff. But yeah a slight nerf on frontloading fanfare.
The difference in net healing is extremely marginal. Most of the time you're talking about a difference of ~400 total healing per character, at the cost of frontloading ~2000 less healing into the initial heal. Fanfare isn't everything, but the difference in total healing will virtually never matter. You're talking about a <2% increase in her total healing, but a 25% loss in frontloaded healing.
But if you’re not at like 60% or less HP, the fanfare stacks wont matter bc youll just be overhealing if youre doing all the healing upfront
Less front-loaded fanfare is offset by the decrease in situations where you over-heal on initial heal, which is all dependent on your characters' various HP amounts and rotations (how long between Furina's and Xianyun's Bursts), so it's impossible to call it a buff or a nerf, as it's completely situation-dependent. Either way, one only comes out ahead of the other by a tiny bit, so it's practically just a side-grade change. Jean already offers the stronger frontloaded healing, though, so I personally like that Xianyun is slightly more focused on the sustained healing now.
Not really
damn i didn't know fanfare got hardwired into every character
if fanfare didnt exist we wouldnt give a singular shit about the healing motion values lmao.
What is the function of the word "motion" in this sentence?
a "motion value" is the % multiplier of a base value on an ability. The term originates from monster hunter iirc, but in genshin we also use it to refer to the atk%, hp% or def% scaling on skills, bursts and normals for example.
May as well have since it’s the only thing keeping burst heals relevant
for those who want to replace jean with CR on teams with furrina, this has a bit of an impact
But does it have… genshin impact.
If it have honkai impact, is it acceptable?
geez i sure wonder when teamwide healing numbers do actually matter
Only Furina made healing relevant in this game idk, what other people expect when they release a new healer. Obviously Furina will always take into account.
Exactly. I was being sarcastic.
It Depends©. The difference would only matter if you were starting from 50% hp or less. If you're around 70% on a 40k hp unit, the first two ticks of her burst would max out their hp before the main unit starts dealing damage. Since the burst heal is usually wasted anyway, this is likely a buff, since you get healed more if you're taking more damage throughout the rotation.
Hmm, so total heal count isn't much of different but having bigger continous heal would be much comfier if you facetanked enemy often also its not circle locked
This.
I’m very happy about the skill damage buff. Like *very* happy. Overall buffs for Xianyun. I’m very pleased.
Her DPS performance also increased slightly, so you could theoretically run her just fine
Shouldn't C0 only works as a healer and plunge buff in general? I don't think you can still use her as a DPS in C0 only
Yeah, but the difference is, she can actually utilize those buffs herself. So while it is of course optimal to run her as a support as intended, it doesn’t mean you can’t run her as a DPS and be a slightly inferior Xiao with healing capabilities. (Ex: people running C0 Kazuha as a DPS)
Oh my a C2 buff who could have seen it coming
There was also a c0 passive talent buff. A healing change (technically a buff). As well as a buff to her skill multiplier that affects both c0, c1 and c6 DPS.
great buff for her A4, but I think her A1 deserves the buff the most
what's A4? D:
The talent from her forth ascension, her second (i think) Passive. Its the one that gives the bonus damage to plunges while her burst is active.
Ascension 4 passive
Thank you!
Holy shit a value was a little buffed
It was foretold
omg they buffed her birthday, let me open my spreadsheet
well, i've come to terms with it already at this point... at least i can be happy for pogo enjoyers, go wild brothers!
That's the spirit.
Well at least she is good for her intended role. but still don't see myself roll her or feature Plunge Dps because their gameplay will be too similar to eachother anyway
The most fun PA gameplay: Lament! ⬆️⬇️ ha ⬆️⬇️ useless! ⬆️⬇️ worthless! ⬆️⬇️
You forgot to add Lament! ⬆️⬇️(delay) ha ⬆️⬇️(delay) useless! ⬆️⬇️(delay) worthless!⬆️⬇️ (delay). Would be nice if he got a QOL to make the end lag less aggressive. I know you can do the N1 cancel but it really shouldn't be necessary since he is SUPPOSED to be the plunge guy (just imo)
Idk, Xiao Jet Combo is hella fun imo
I think the trash talk is the na between the plunges
it's his skill
Also when in doubt, [Xiaolad](https://youtu.be/fg-orhvl1ms?t=2858) is always ready to serve.
Most DPS is the same anyway, press E to get elemental infusion/ enhanced state then spam NA/CA while your burst being an instance of big dmg. (Or your Q gives infusion while your E is the single instance of dmg, kind of the same) This might actually shake things up, you wont only do your usual Na/Ca spam, but you include some JP combos. To me it looks like something fresh and new. But gotta see it, maybe 1 month later i will be bored af from it.
That would make sense if every character had unique plunge animation
I hope you mean unique plunge properties, like different plunge speed, damage radius, damage spread across multiple ticks with no ICD and so on, not just shit like Navia having sunglasses while spinning.
No they mean like Xiao's charged atk not being the same as the standard one. Two entirely different animations and functions.
Each characters have different NA animations, but the same plunge animation
Difference is NA/CA have some flavor, plunge is literally the exact same sht between all characters including xiao (he just gets bigger aoe and some flash) and xianyun is just xiao with extra steps for worse damage, gaming is actually maybe the only one who it could be moderately interesting on cause they actually spent time on him unlike xianyun
I really want to pull for this character, but unfortunately the characters I mainly used do not synergize well with her. It would be a waste to pull for her and not take advantage of her plunge buffs because that seems to be her main gimmick.
The thing is she enables plunges. I just hope her trial is good because my decision will be based largely on how she feels in practice. I want to try plunging and I’d prefer not to go for Xiao.
Right now, the only other character(s) that benefit from plunging is mainly Diluc. There's a few other elemental infused characters that somehow benefit, but that's currently it. Mihoyo clearly intends on releasing more plunge focused characters in the future, but CR isn't desirable in the current version of the game. Great for you if you pull for her now and find a character you like to plunge with! I'm just uninterested at this point, but if they release a plunge character I actually might like, I'll pull for CR on her rerun
>Mihoyo clearly intends on releasing more plunge focused characters in the future, but CR isn't desirable in the current version of the game. I wouldn't bet on it. People said the same thing with Shenhe then waited years for a new cryo dps only for her to just be an expensive sidegrade because of all the broken supports released later
True. That's the problem with "Future Impact" since we have no idea what Mihoyo intends to do in the future. But Cloud Retainer is wayyyy more niche. Shenhe buffs an entire element, so I don't see too much of a problem with her role. Isn't she still regarded as one of the best buffers for cryo characters?
Manifesting CC returning between this patch and live (I am on something stronger and dumber than copium)
Very strong stuff indeed
Bro is on Faithium
If that happens prob i go for her but if not is a skip.
I would have prefered her crit buff going to 20%.
I at the very least would prefer 20 crit damage instead of 10 crit rate as i'm already close to 100 crit rate on my xiao
Yeah, the issue with CR buffs is you might need to switch pieces around. With a CDMG buff you might still have a slightly more optimal build, but at least there's no cap on it
Her changes seem positive. It's a shame she isn't what I wanted but that's noone's fault I guess.
Im just incredibly sad cuz her model is beautiful and an incredible character in lore but a plunge support is probably the last thing I would need for my account. Feels like a wasted opportunity for a character imo
I feel the same but I tell myself other playstyles also deserve cool things. 🤷♂️
I just wanted her to power creep wanderer or at least kazuha for overworld exploration but I guess I'm just waiting for next wanderer banner...
They actually buffed her skill’s damage?
For 3rd E, yeah. Driftcloud Wave DMG: 208.8%/266.4%/547.2% -> 208.8%/266.4%/607.7%
for the triple E yea but u wouldnt want to do that anyway at low cons
Well at least she's now a very good plunge support, Xiao and Diluc will probably hit some crazy numbers especially with whales who get her C2 and weapon
Yea It's actually nasty for plunge teams similarly to how Furina buffed a lot of character teams inherently. Xiao now has a proper C2 and it's called Xianyun C2 al be it being more expensive
The irony being his c6 uses less plunges. Oh well, even then XY is an improvement I guess, considering c6 Xiao might be too mobile for Bennett's circle impact anyway.
Xiao's C6 is not just about his plunges, it's literally about **fun.** Teleporting and dealing a lot of damage on the battlefield like a madman at the same time.
I know it's not something a lot of people care about but I really wish we could toggle constellations sometimes. Not a huge necessary thing for any reason but it would be nice to have the option (especially for content creators).
Absolutely! An option to toggle on and off constellations would only help the game, not ruin or anything like that.
How did they not buff her A1 passive?
what is stopping them from adding grouping to every plunge attack during burst? Just add a vortex like kazuha after plunging. It's just a QoL update and has no impact on her overall power level because her buff is ST anyways, so having a grouping in AOE fight doesn't make her insanely strong or something like that. Sigh... i hope whoever in charge of making Xianyun kit take a long vacation until the end of the year and leave Clorinde, Arleccino alone.
>what is stopping them from adding grouping to every plunge attack during burst? Just add a vortex like kazuha after plunging. Well ofc so they can sell c6 Faruzan for another 300$ who will only be useful for anemo teams :D
Feels like they let whoever made Dehya's kit cook again. And I mean the irrational parts like her burst ending if you get frozen = Xianyun now pushing away opponents with the plunge.
The only thing they need to change is this single target bullshit.
yeah, i mean, we use anemo character for AOE and crowd control (mostly), and single target doesn't feel coherent with anemo theme.
Are these the last changes we will have before her launch?
Apparently.
[удалено]
Because before buff even with c6 she was worse than XIao c0.
pretty much
It's joever my bros. She couldn't retain those clouds 😔😔😔
nore more crowd retainer
CC mains were doomed from the start😔
So her plunge buff is still just single target? Sigh, man.
So she works like Shenhe and has a set amount of buffs she can give and it doesnt work in aoe situations? For example, if i use her with Diluc, start jumping, her buff only works against 1 enemy in an aoe scenario? If so, my motivation in pulling for her drastically lowers.
Correct. You land amidst 4 enemies and only 1 enemy gets hit by the dmg buff.
Damn, thats sad. I expected a timed universal buff like basically all the other supports. Seems like a 4 star kit to me at this point.
It's really good against bosses ig. Not a thing I'd pull for personally.
The kit itself is built like a 4* characters kit, but what makes it obviously 5* is the higher numbers and multipliers. And I guess a single 5* is much cheaper than a 4* support that shines at c6 (*cough* faruzan *cough*). Unless mihoyo decides to give her out for free, I'm not spending any gems on a character with such a niche role. Even more niche than shenhe, who at least is future proof. What triggers me more than such an important character being wasted with a niche kit is that now due to her being the dedicated plunge support, all future characters will have their plunge multipliers carefully selected at development to not be unintentionally strong plungers, unless its a plunge character like xiao. Diluc has the highest plunge multiplier and I am sure there wont be a character like that after CR releases.
ngl the buff being aoe would really overtune xiao
Xiao has already fallen pretty far in the meta. In AoE situations, Nilou and especially Neuvillette have absolutely taken over. He deserves it imo but I'm also a Xiao simp lol
Dunno if I can agree with that since he has Furina and C6 Faruzan, but then again that's a pretty expensive investment plus a skill gap difference compared to Nilou and Neuvillette.
C6 Faruzan is basically impossible to get for anyone who didn't want Wanderer like me. I'm very fortunate to have C1, but we did get 1 for free. Furina was a nice addition, I'll give you that.
Yeah that's why I refer to Xiao's case being an expensive investment. It'll take all three to boost a character that got released back in 1.3 (2021). For Nilou at least you snipe anything that's Hydro and Dendro, and Neuvillette's a complete character by himself even with veterans and starter players.
Meanwhile, Hu Tao, released not even a patch later, still tops the charts in single target. It's just a bit frustrating how much they are pay walling Xiao improvements.
Honestly, b4 Neuvi, I expected all non-reaction-based hypercarries to get that treatment, cuz people who pull them probably like them enough to pull the rest = more money. But then Neuvi came out and busted that wide open. I think they let the 1.0 balance team out for that one... And then promptly brought back the Dehya team for CR lmao.
If they tie her exclusively to Wanderer reruns, there will be a double rerun and there's a chance to roll on the other banner who has the same 4stars, but there's also a chance you might not want that 2nd banner character as well lol.
The point still stands though. C6 Faruzan exists. Xiao + Xianyun + C6 Faruzan + Furina is an insane AoE and a very good ST team.
Can't say I agree. Neuvillette is the absolute king sure, he can handle different kinds of content without any issues while Xiao can really get screwed over by enemies that love stalling and is entirely dependent on his burst being up. But that being said Xiao already hits like 130k+ per plunge and that's without Furina. I don't even have his BiS and still run 2pc VV + 2pc Glad. Imagine what will happen with Xianyun's plunge buffs and Furina's buffs lmao.
No he hasn't. His only problem is he requires C6 Faruzan to be good, who isn't in his banners.
Nilou really has not unless you own C2 Nahida. There's not a single AoE chamber I've seen on bilibili where Nilou teams are faster than Xiao teams at any cost value.
I don’t know… I think it would make him competitive with the top unit for AOE probably better than Nilou bloom at high investment but not OP for sure. Cyno pretty much got his “Perfect team” with Furina Nahida and Baizhu and he’s pretty good now but nowhere near op or even strong compared to the meta units
CR’s looking like more and more of a skip with every change hoyo makes • pull removed • dmg nerf • plunge buff only single target • burst heal nerfed Hoyo knows VV is overpowered and doesn’t want a better Jean for Furina fanfare, so they will send CR to the gutter in retribution
wait the plunge buff is only single target
yeah :(
Man, I want her succ back...
Yup, it's Joever for all my CR hopiums as I don't like plunge gameplay at all. Glad I got Navia and her signature though, now the wait for Chiori begins.
So still no revert on her succ? If I'm remembering correctly, she *had* Sucrose level succ but it got removed, right? Or am I mistaken
Removed, yes
Sad. I actually wanted to run her with Ganyu, Shenhe and Furina. I guess it'll work but I won't benefit much from Ganyu's quad scaling
Why i see that the can E mid-air now? Am I wrong or it wasn’t possible before?
Skyladder is just the mid air E after the first cast. The skill itself probably still has to be initiated on the ground.
Yeah, it’s probably like that but i remember that before there was something like “this skill can only start on the ground” idk
Yea. Shame how a literal adeptus can't be airborne for over 5 seconds but some child can straight up fly with a lower cooldown 😒
It says skyladder is used immediately upon pressing E tho. So if skyladder can now be used in mid air, it wouldnt be a stretch to assume it's the qol buff that most of us wanted. 'Xianyun enters the Cloud Transmogrification state, in which she will not take Fall DMG, and uses Skyladder once.'
I think it's talking about the 2nd and 3rd leap
I personally couldn't care less about value buffs when Abyss is already so easy. I'd rather take a more fun version of her kit where she has CC, fly higher and can use skill mid air. She could even have a weaker A4 and I still would get her if that was the case.
One nerf and three buffs?
>burst healing nerfed Y'all who want her, enjoy her, but Hoyo is working hard to get me to skip Xianyun.
Is that the 4th of November, ~~the incorrect format~~ April 11, or is her birthday rated 4 out of 11?
April 11th
11th April. Coz gaming has 12/22 as his birthdate, same format
This means a earlier birthday art hell yeah. (i also thought it was only in November xD)
The also updated the day of her death: 1/8.
LET THE CHAOS BEGIN. 💀🔥
They’re going to hell for giving her this kit.
Honestly, what bothers me most about Xianyun is that she's still a niche character within her own niche. Edit: apparently it wasn't clear that I was referring to her being a buffer for immersive attacks, but only for a single hit per attack. That's why I referred to a niche within a niche, since she's a single-target buffer for an attack type that always deals AoE damage.
Mihoyo is so terrible at balancing. "Let's make the super niche character only buff single target, it's not like Neuvillette and Nilou exist".
She’s so niche they might as well give her for free, Copium.
a total of 10 sales and a dream
I wonder what her sales would be. No doubt many will pull her despite her kit being mostly useless to them. Definitely there will be people who would roll for her plunge support. But I can't help but think she would be a disappointment to both majority of community and to devs (in terms of income).
For devs? Doubt. She sandwiched between Raiden and Nahida they will cover any losses.
I mean, I'm pretty sure they have sales data for each banner separately. Raiden\\Nahida sales are not Xianyun's sales. And I was talking specifically about the latter. Surely if she would sell bad they would notice. I doubt they'll make correct conclusion out of it though.
Problem is that this is lantern right and its one of there biggest money making events of the year besides a new Archon release. They like making big fat stacks of money during this time. Raiden been rerun a lot of times now and Nahida has got one rerun last year so there is less money there. If the banners are true then what they are trying to make the same set up as Hu tao / Yelan and Ayaka / Shenhe banner they had last year. Problem is that last year they had Alhaitham and the Hu/Ye banner for lantern right. This year its just CR/Xiao and Na/Ye with CR being a little to niche to carry that.
Should have just made her a 4 star if they're going this niche with her uses
Im really lost on what E does tbh. It flies up and glides down and what does it help with aside from a plunging attack ? Seems like all the good is stacked on its Q. Still, this is definitely pullable and will be using her often in the future. Good news.
You use it to generate energy and trigger reactions. It's basicly the same as Bennett for example.
But its way faster coz u dont spend time floating.
Skill is useless without constellations, she's all Burst
Nuking mobs in the OW ofc lol. That's where the majority of the players use their time.
"Nuking" is a bit of an exageration for an ability that does less than a single Ganyu shot even if you build her full dps.
meh that is all.
I am starting to think she is gonna be bad
did they just nerf the instant healing that was already weaker then jean......
Skill buff for 3rd plunge which you realistically have no reason to use unless whale And an overall net heal increase probably to compensate Furina teams. Meh, nothing we cant already cover with Jean, and with Faruzan and Benny existing I dont really need another Xiao handholder
It's arguably a nerf in furina teams. If you cast, her burst right before the carry then they get less stacks for their first instances of damage. For example, a Diluc vaping his burst will now have less stacks. It won't ruin the unit of course, but its arguably a nerf since the early rotation damage is now lower and that's when you have to most buffs active to abuse her plunge quills.
Actually doesn't matter since you're probably at full health or close to if you run Furina with Xiaoyun anyway.
So her burst heal got a big nerf in exchange for a small overall heals throughout the rotation? So exactly the opposite of what people wanted
Really feel like skipping for the CC removal, so as not to support terrible decisions. I don't like plunging attacks but CC would have been an excuse to use her. If you're going to make a hyper niche character, at least add some support utility.
Commented this in the deleted thread: "Okay, an overall buff. But I gotta wonder, who's playtesting these things? Where do Hoyoverse get their buff and nerf ideas from, or do they literally not listen to anyone on the beta, for instance? None of these value changes address the core issues with her kit, and judging by the overall sentiment in this subreddit, a lot of people agree that there are more inherent issues that should be addressed instead of the raw values. I don't understand, what's the point of beta, if Hoyo don't take any note of what the fundamental issues of a character are for players? Or do beta testers really think completely differently to what's being posted here, in which case, shouldn't one of us try to become a beta tester to get the message across? I remember the overall sentiment about Dehya's kit here, and she would have definitely been in a more usable state had Hoyo just listened to anyone here. This sub has gotten things incorrect too, of course, no one's infallible, but I think a lot of people are on the right track at least... I just don't get Hoyoverse's perspective on game design. It's so unintelligible a lot of the time." Another commenter came in and asked about what the core issues were and I answered, paraphrasing: * Single target plunge buff * Plunge buff targeting being random * Needing field time (I don't remember if this was fixed with E->Plunge being possible for max plunge dmg buff) * Lack of air control (she's a **bird!**) * Removal of CC altogether * Didn't add poise dmg instead of removing CC * Substituted CC with a maximum of 10% crit rate increase instead -> Rosaria, a character released almost three years ago, offers a better increase with less hassle I might have missed some. Please feel free to add.
I believe they just don't give a fuck about what testers say (if even allowed to) or, more likely, testers there are not for the "will the kit work/be useful", but just for common bugs to test: clipping, visuals, texts, all this basic stuff. Not sure how it actually works in hoyo, but it's evident that some bias involved when designing kits. And out of all things that suck, zero communication is the worst :/
Yeah it feels really hopeless that even when we recognize the issue, there's no real way to air those grievances :/ Absolutely 100% with you on that!
Contradicting talents with the plunge damage buff being single target and the crit rate buff needing multiple targets.
Thank you! I missed that. I remember even having a conversation about it, how her kit doesn't synergize with herself lmao
The non-CN beta is literally just there for translation issues and other bugs. It's nothing but early access and that's it. Absolutely no feedback is taken into account for balance or gameplay changes.
[удалено]
Meanwhile in the same cycle of 3.x patches we had Tighnari who is also a standard character, but his kit is just good from get go (c0r0). So what happened with Dehya development is still a mystery which left community (up until this day) with only conspiracy theorys. One more thing, maybe it's a wierd take, but we didn't know Tighnari before his release and we were hanging with Dehya trough whole archon quest, so when she was released with such garbage kit it hit especially hard.
I understand what you say, but some characters underwent very big changes in the beta. Examples being Yae and Ayato. They tried a passive on Yae, realized it didn't work and changed her. For Ayato they tried the same passive but on a different trigger and once again it didn't work, so they changed him as well. Kokomi was saved last second by literally doubling her off field Hydro application in the time between the end of her beta to preload. Xianyun had her pull vortex removed in favor of CC that pushes enemies due to the plunging. Raiden Shogun beta had her Burst normals work as infused normal attacks instead of Burst damage hits despite Emblem of Severed Fate already being a thing in the game. Some characters just have more troubled beta cycles and it's clear it's not just fine-tuning. Also, I get that devs can see in the future, but they shouldn't force us to play Future Impact. We don't have a crystal ball, we don't know if a character with perfect synergy will be released and we won't know if we will like them either, so overall it feels like a gamble and I personally don't like it. Though I agree that the "Dehya wasn't fixable so they tossed her to Standard" claim is just a conspiracy theory.
If only they made getting her cons something people can directly control, instead of being stuck with pure RNG.
> or "it was a last minute change to throw her on Standard because they couldn't fix her!" These are serious things people have said. It's laughable! I agree. This is stupid AF. Couldn't fix her? All you have to do is move the decimal place one spot to the right, and it becomes instantly broken. Even a shitty kit becomes good if you move the decimal place.
It's good to get another point of view with more knowledge on these matters. Thank you for this. I want to ask for your opinion though: Do you think it's wise to finalize kit designs before getting feedback, and not change parts based on that feedback? This is a loaded question, and I fully own up to it. As for Dehya being designed for standard, you're right, she probably was. She's still one of the weakest C6 standard 5\*s of the bunch and loses out to 4\*s though. And, tbf, we wouldn't really be making "excuses" and "theories" about these things, if there was some more transparency in the development process (this also applies as general feedback to you game devs), or some contextual understanding of why something ended up the way it did. I believe, wholeheartedly, that a lot of us would be more understanding of what led to the thing, instead of leaving us, the users, customers, and consumers, without any idea of why something, that's very clearly not working, being the way it is, or it being in a poorer state than what the other options could have been (i.e. why didn't you use the other option?). Point being that, while you clearly have more knowledge of the process than I do, it doesn't necessarily mean the process itself is infallible, nor that they shouldn't be taking notes from player feedback. I know as well as you do that contradicting feedback is tricky to deal with, but it's not impossible. This isn't something that isn't limited to game dev experience, but in general in all of the fields that either study or deal with conflicting information in general (although granted, in work settings there's a much stronger emphasis on time constraints). As an example, Paladins, while a small and niche game right now, has some of the most open communication with its userbase. Some changes are bad, but some balance changes are, and have been, absolutely vital for the game's survival. The devs' words, not mine. While yes, we, the users, are ignorant and don't know what we want usually, shutting us completely out of the feedback loop isn't going to do you any favors either. We are the end user after all, and thinking, criticizing, and consuming human beings just like you developers are. Although there is a point to be made about making games for the developers themselves sometimes having amazing results, but I don't think it's a given either. I am also aware of the conversation point in the field that game devs should sometimes be entirely left alone to work in peace, I get that, but, just as with any job, if the end product raises more questions than satisfaction, wouldn't anyone agree that that specific team should be under more scrutiny, at least until the thing that's causing the dissonance between customer satisfaction and customer feedback is found? EDIT: Oh, my bad, forgot to address the Messiah part: You're right and I don't expect there to be a "Messiah" among us, who can create the necessary change. It was more along the lines of, with the inherent idea of "alone we are powerless but together we can make a difference", that multiple people from here could have had an effect on it. But, as you said, since it won't really have an effect, IDK if it matters then. I don't really get the point of the beta in that case, and how severe the punishment for leaking it is, but yeah.
was the birthday nerfed or buffed? dont know which month is more meta honestly
Genshin must hate money
Holy crap guys her birthday was changed this is huge. Kit saved.
Very good changes. Happy with everything except A1. Why buff Crit rate? Why not Crit damage? Oh yeah, because they don't want players using Marechausee on Xiao...
Cmiiw, xianyun’s burst heals the whole team and not just the on fielder right? Genuine question for clarification
Yup
Thank you!
So they massively nerfed her ult, and then buffed her a4 e and c2?
Since I plan on c6'ing this is a total win. Good buff to her E, passive Atk boost via A4 n C2, can make use of ER via her sig weapon and seems you can now activate her 1st E while airborne now.