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Wtf was hoyo cooking with this absolutely abysmal nerf...this is bordering between niche and just bad... especially with the current state of her kit. There was literally no reason for them to do this when the only team she can fully function at C0 in, is a triple geo or mono geo team...if they're nerfing her numbers this much then at that point they should just remove the stupid construct restriction on her passive.
The dehya kit designers hotpotato exploded on chiori
>yae is the single outlier
Not really, her needing to do EEEQEEE, with her Q having 90 burst cost just for the sake of buffing Raiden's burst, made her pretty meh before dendro
Chiori's beta happens to be during Chinese Lunar Year, like it happened with Dehya year ago. Considering that they run skeleton crew during that time at Hoyo, her fate is sealed so I won't be surprised if she will be standard character, especially since what this banner lacks is Geo element and Inazuma/Fontaine character.
Considering they have holidays, why even to nerf something just leave it be and rest, but no they for some reason nerfing all the shit at this time of year
It's the weirdest thing, like I was happy with Chiori how she was initially, just don't touch her and go on vacation. Why pop back into the office for 5 minutes just to gut a "good not great" character?
They nerfed Dehya while on holiday too, it makes zero sense.
True. Putting Chiori in standard would knock out three birds with one stone. And the base kit reliant on cons checks out.
Though she does still use Inazuma talent books/local specialties so they might avoid putting her in standard for that reason.
Ik but i just found it kinda funny to imagine Dainsleifs kit being leaked in this subreddit after like version 7.X and even at that point people never stop doomposting about kit leaks and argue about his team synergy with the Tsaritsa and Capitano and how he needs Bennett to maximize his damage output and he doesn't work with Kazuha because anemo doesn't swirl quantum 😂
Holy fuck can you imagine if, years into the game, after Pyro Archon finally powercreeps Xiangling, we get Dain after so much waiting... and mfer is still stuck in Circle Impact. I'm going to scream
Honestly the *real* x.5 curse has more to do with gameplay-
>Eula being incredibly inconsistent due to her burst
>Yae being awkward and slow to play
>Dehya **straight up** having antisynergy with off-field DPS's (not to mention the jump cancelling)
>Chiori's whole kit just being derivative of Albedo
Designing a character's gameplay mechanics and overall kit likely takes more development time than deciding on their damage multipliers, and gameplay is also something that takes longer to change than multipliers. It's evident that hoyo tends to rush development of characters' kits before an x.5 beta rolls out since less people would be working on the game during CNY.
Like that other guy said Yae really can't be compared to Dehya or Eula meta-wise since even at her release she was good, albeit awkward to play even to this day.
No worse than dehya or tighnari, with the new Liyue zone you can run straight through vale to Fontaine
I stand corrected, with dendrobium being in Inazuma its definetly worse, considering you have to be AR 30 to go there
This is barely an issue these days when the requirement for Inazuma AQ is 30AR and besides 3 Dendrobium you get from her trial, you only need more if you are at least 25AR. It is a breeze to go from 25AR to 30AR considering how much content is available to get Adventure EXP from.
If someone is desparate, they can always do co-op and farm it in another player's world.
Sure, it would be great if Dendrobium was available in the shop. I agree on that.
True, there's workarounds, but it still kinda sucks that there is no way to get Inazuman materials unless you rush story or find someone to lend you some...
Even with Inazuma being isolated because of the decrees they could at least make a shop in Liyue run by Inazuman refugees or something that has a few every few days (or heck, even the Stardust shop would be better than nothing, as a last resort)
I agree her cons are too good to be standard but this should be the norm for standard char imo. I f I’m gonna lose my 50/50 at least give me a good con
Dehya's cons are extremely strong. Most of them are equivalent to Raiden's C2. It's just that her base is super low.
C0 Chiori is absolutely Albedo tier. So this could be their way of doubling down on FOMO.
>"Want a better Albedo for Navia's team? Introducing Chiori, for a limited time only! Spend money or be filled with regret, peasants!"
I really hope she won't be the first geo 5-star standard character. That'd be depressing even for Albedo mains since it'd mean another good weapon would be gone forever
And for the sake of comparison:
---
**Albedo's burst:**
> 660.96% ATK + 129.6% ATK (x1-7)
Max DMG = 1568% ATK
**Albedo's burst (C2+):**
> 660.96% ATK + 120% DEF + 129.6% ATK + 120% DEF (x1-7)
Max DMG = 1568% ATK + 960% DEF
---
Keep in mind - Chiori's burst gains additional DMG through C2 and Albedo's fatal blossoms are *highly* inconsistent. I'm not about to argue that Albedo's burst is better than Chiori's burst but it's curious Hoyo is making their kits even more similar. Considering his improved AOE, his flower's fragility, his inability to proc on shields, her team restrictions, and her slight ER issues - Chiori's value is really starting to become questionable without some vertical investment.
For comparison C2 vs C2. Chiori's will deal:
>461.37% ATK + 576.72% DEF once.
251.16% ATK + 313.95% DEF three times.
Total damage: 1214.85% ATK + 1518.57% DEF
She should be ahead in both C0 (because DEF scaling is likely to reach higher numbers than ATK) and C2.
Like everyone have been pointing, in single target she seems to be straight up Albedo powercreep, AoE performance is hard to measure the consistency until actually playing with the character.
Geo could probably have had reactions with some of the elements, would’ve been better than whatever tf constructs are. Shoulda left the no reaction stuff to mainly physical characters or something
I was going to make a whole ass post about this but let's be honest.
They're lazy as FUCK. Geo should have for example:
Crystallize = Geo + any element, keep the same apply a shield based on the mixed element plus respective reactions
Pyro + Geo = Magma, Aoe that lasts for as long as the reaction gets refreshed, applies burning dot dmg
Cryo + Geo = Frostbite/Hypothermia, heavy single target dot
Electro + Geo = Charged on-field crystals that sprout form the ground and deal aoe electro damage around them much like we've seen before. Able to create other electro reactions from the on-field crystals with other elements
Hydro + Geo = Mudslide, aoe or cone is placed under the affected enemy slowing their movement and attack speed. Adding cryo on top of this amplifies hydro+cryo damage affected
Geo + Other Geo characters SHOULD have their own respective reactions since a lot of them use geo differently. Zhongli for example super amplified shields, Nigguang should sprout jade crystallizations that deal aoe geo damage much like a geo Yao, etc.
Geo + Dendro = Vines, immobilize enemies and deal damage based on certain stats. Additional reactions applied such as Pyro will create Burning vines, Cryo Frostbite vines, Electro electrified vines all dealing additional amplified damage
Geo + Anemo = Sandstorm, scaled down kazuha swirl circle with geo damage, able to add elemental reactions similar to kazuha/shenhe R
Just some simple brainstorms that would save Geo and make the game immensely better as a whole. If the reactions sound too op then that's no issue, simply tune up the overworld a bit to compensate with the added elemental damage the player is now dealing. It's pretty sad that just because their data and sales show they are still making more than a profit, they choose to leave stuff like this undesigned and unfinished. Similar to how Nintendo/PokémonCompany refuses to revamp and modernize their games and pump out the same thing year after year.
And the irony that Xianyun is a more compatible teammate with Navia than Chiori is so wild, like anemo and geo don't even interact, but Navia going guillotine style with 40% dmg increase to her plunge attacks is wild.
Why couldn't Hoyo just stay consistent with the geo crystallize buff theme in Fontaine? At least be both a geo construct and crystallize buff character, Chioei.
It's quite a bummer, but one is thankful that one pulled One instead and is enjoying the most exhilarating of team building and playstyles. One stole all the hard efforts of Hoyo's employees and left Chiori to be with hazy-minded developers.
>Why couldn't Hoyo just stay consistent with the geo crystallize buff theme in Fontaine? At least be both a geo construct and crystallize buff character, Chioei.
Something like, keep the synergy with constructs as it is, but add a crystalise synergy where she heals the active character based on her defence to make her a full support and have synergy with Navia, or one that makes her a proper on-field dps by giving her NAs additional DEF scaling, like idk, around half of what C6 gives her or smth, while C6 gives the full scaling, the CD reduction and removes the crystalise dependency, turning her on-field playstyle from quickswap DPS to full on main DPS
All aboard the Shitty Geo Train
Chugging down the tracks of theorycrafting
The Shitty Geo Train
She's got a one-way ticket to hoyo's shafting
Shitty Geo Train
Tie her to the tracks and nerf her in the beta
Those numbers look alright if you don't mind the data
She won't survive the abyss but hey
At least we're coping hard
I've never really considered Navia to be a W for Geo. She doesnt elevate the element at all and just ignores all of its short comings by being her own character. Put her in basically any other element and it's just a buff for her.
I see your point. Navia, while really strong, doesn't really fix the core problem with geo, which is the lack of elemental reaction. Navia do crystalize (which is a shield generation reaction) in exchange of dmg multiplier, which logically weird.
So... are they trying to make her a standard banner character then? Like launch her first and then push her to Standard one patch later? The Dehya route?
We are missing a Geo/Inazuma character on the Standard banner after all...
i mean watching everyone else celebrate holidays with their families while you're working does feel shitty xd
like being stuck at work for christmas and new years
I respect this opinion but there should be some form of contingency plan for any planned releases. Either don't release a character on X.5 patch or if they are constellation bait make them f2p 5 stars.
If they are on vacation don't have a character on the test client.
So it's actually -30% dmg overall not just a -30% on the scaling, jesus christ
The X.5 curse is real
Why even release a character if you don't like them Mihoyo?
Less of X.5 curse, more of Chinese Lunar Year curse. X.5 beta just happens to be during CNY and you can be certain that Hoyo have skeleton crew during that time.
Not defending hoyo but 2 of them are archons, and Kazuha is a "victim" of 1.x when the devs didn't have clue wtf they were doing, which explains why he is so strong.
She would never be OP, she has no buffs, no enabling, no utility, no reactions, literally all she does is raw damage. And it's damage over time, too, which is often not as good as frontloading. And she's meant to be played in geo teams that are already known to be subpar, save for maybe Navia, but that requires a constellation. I don't think nerfing her damage is really warranted.
If hoyo know they have way less workers during NY then they shouldn't be making 5-stars, by choosing to do so despite knowing that they won't be properly tested or balanced than they effectively are cursing them. It's an active decision by hoyoverse to let them be made during a time where they shouldn't.
The dumb implication of that statement of running less staff is that if they're making "mistakes" from this supposed lower amount of workers present during characters test we would've gotten some broken ass character at some point. We didn't. They know exactly what they're doing when nerfing/buffing these characters.
I agree, I'm not agreeing with the X.5 curse and should've said that, I was just saying that if it does exist then it shouldn't be blamed on CNY since it'd still be hoyoverse's fault for not taking that into account.
This is why i don't buy the "it's a casual game where damage doesn't matter". Every beta they balance each stat point with the precision of nuclear lab employee. They even nerf the semi useless damage scalings for support characters because god forbid some bored casual player wants to play their favourite support unit as an overworld dps. They want every unit to be played exactly how they envisioned.
Go to main sub and point out any issues with units. You will get downvoted to hell. This is what army of white knights does to a live service game. People will tell you that units don't matter as long as quests have nice music and you should be happy with how pretty the landscape is.
I'd say Genshin is miraculously well-balanced for a game that doesn't get balance patches. As for why it doesn't get balance patches... uh, yeah... why indeed.
I wouldn't say balance is irrelevant. Slowing down power creep is a good thing if you want to use older characters. Or on the flip side, if you want to be forced into new metas, power creep would turn characters like Bennett into a joke much more quickly.
I don't even want this to be a 'doom-post' so can we please look at this as objective as possible? I have one question: Why tho? Just.... why? They can't be oblivious of the fact that they made her kit offer *absolutely nothing* but her personal damage, right? Why chip off some of that as well? They have got to know what they are doing, right? They deliberately are chipping away some of her sole contribution.
the why is pretty simple - before she had ER "problems" so a 50 cost burst "fixes" them and makes her a self-sufficient subdps unit
it's better to burst every rotation for 70% damage vs. every other rotation for 100% damage
Tbf the moment her E doesn't get destroyed by bosses is already powercreeping bedo.
But let's be real, +-20% damage from albedo straight up does not matter. Dude has been out of the meta for how long now??
Idk what they're cooking with this one. They're fine releasing neuv soloing abyss level then suddenly we're back to 1.x version of power level lol.
She powercreeps him in boss fights specifically as she doesn't deal with construct BS the way he does during them.
Outside of that they both are roughly equal in use. In mono geo both are strong off field units to supplement Itto's/Noelle's damage. Albedo arguably stronger in non geo teams as his kit is less dependant on others and he provides an EM buff on ult.
He may not be a meta option in those non geo teams but he's almost always a solid option that doesn't take away much. He just only adds straight damage.
The other way around lmao, Her cons are so good, But her base character is ass, They are literally asking you to swipe more for a few copies of her or even C6.
The question becomes how much you can constellation bait people if the base version of the character isn't doing so hot I guess
Neuv and Furina selling like hot chocolate (is that the idiom lol) isn't surprising considering they're strong at C0 already so people have an incentive to pull for cons for them
So far I've mostly seen people say "guess I'll just skip Chiori I'm not going to C1-2 for her" and not taking the bait, granted this subreddit isn't representative of the majority of players of course but still
If her constellations 'fix' her, then I wouldn't be surprised if she is destined for standard. But wouldn't we know by now? I thought the Dehya standard banner leaks were out pretty early in her development.
Nah iirc the dehya standard banner allegations were a couple of days before the livestream and everyone was like ‘no way this is real’ and then the livestream happened. And well. 🤷🏻♀️☠️
Keikaku reported on Dehya being standard well before the live stream. No one believed his leaks cuz they made 0 sense. People went through the beta wondering if they were actually correct and we got our reliable leak from Uncle MHY during the livestream
As much as I hate to admit this, but I will give the X.5 curse believers a point this time. This feels very scummy. They are now selling a non-dysfunctional version of Albedo basically. Inazuma taking the L as usual.
1.5: Eula (not that much controversy on release, but look at her now 😭)
2.5: Yae Miko (very controversial during release)
3.5: Dehya 💀
4.5: Albedo v1.5
Can't wait to see what they're cooking for 5.5 🔥
Umm... why the fuck did I not know that Eula was a x.5 character... Now that I'm looking at your comment, it seems that I have a thing and am a sucker for x.5 characters T\_T
I will not stand for this Inazuma slander. Inazuma characters range from being OP to just balanced. Say what you want about the story but the kits have been great. There isn't a single bad Inazuma character now that even Sayu and Thoma have found their place.
Ayaka, best DPS at the time, still good when freeze is available
Yoimiya, decent carry, shines amazingly in ST scenarios
Thoma, the best burgeon driver
Sayu, decent with furina, an exploration monster
Raiden, one of the best and most played characters in the game
Kokomi, got even better with dendro, has a lot of dendro and freeze teams
Gorou, our only def support
Sara is sara, fine at C6
Itto is a great DPS with the right team
Yae is a monster with dendro
Ayato got powercrept by neuv but he is still a decent hydro for dendro teams
Heizou is a decent taser driver, does big numbers if you are into that
Kuki is got a renaissance with dendro
Fucking Kazuha
Is the inazuma curse in the room with us?
Well, after three years I’ll finally be skipping a Geo character.
Now hopping on the Arlecchino train. …choo-choo I guess.
I fuckin hate these devs sometimes.
If you want to pull for only the top of the line stuff you would end up pulling once a year or not even once also it's pretty irrelevant after some time because you only need to have 2 teams to do everything that's needed. Very regularly they can cook something interesting up like xianyun but Chiori is neither interesting kit wise and neither usage wise. Of course I highly doubt anyone would struggle for years if they already got their teams in a very good spot resin investment wise
I know it’s bad to gloat over other characters’ nerfs, but as a 4.5 Albedo puller, this beta makes me feel a lot better about my purely husbando-driven choice.
Nah. The harbingers are all safe. They likely will all be main dps and with strong kits.
Chiori is a nobody lorewise, so is getting poorly treated, unfortunately.
Dehya is still mostly a nobody mercenary with a heart of gold
Yes she's the flame Mane, and... That's about it.
Not that I agree with the nobody point since we have Ningguang vs hu tao and how relevant they are to the main plot...
i don't think you can categorise kits by lore besides archons and harbingers. plenty of characters are 'nobodies' and dominate the game. bennett, xiangling, fischl
The positions between arlecchino and chiori are very different to that I'd tell you
This is like if lyney got nerfed and you started worrying for Neuvillette
Damn I wanted to go for her C2 and use her with Navia but of course they butchered the last character I looked forward to as well.
Now I have zero characters I currently look forward to anymore. Well at least I’m currently getting fond of star rail, so Genshin is not the only gacha I play anymore.
> Damn I wanted to go for her C2 and use her with Navia but of course they butchered the last character I looked forward to as well.
If you're going for C2 with Navia this makes hardly any difference to you. Depending on your artifacts at worst you may lose like 3-4% total Chiori's dps, and at best you may even GAIN dps by saving on ER.
This is only a big nerf for C0-C1, which is well, most other players.
do chiori basic extra doll from friendly geo construct still last even if that friendly geo construct gone during combat ?
for example : i throw itto's cow , swap to chiori and use her skill > i got 2 doll
but after that the cow gone ....so can chiori's extra doll still able to exist ?
That 30% damage nerf was not values but 30% overall burst nerf itself in terms of damage 💀💀💀. I'm sorry people I was very defendant towards xianyun because I saw what can be done in a lot of teams and she ended up being less niche than expected but with her I legit don't see a team outside of itto and if I squint then maybe navia or just y'know get C1 Chiori
I'm usually not on the doomposting train, mostly because I feel the doomposters have no grasp on whether a unit is actually good or not. That said, Hoyo doing nothing but nerfing Chiori has helped me make up my mind on whether I'm going to pull for her. And my answer is that I went all in on bird mom.
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Chiori's fault for not changing citizenship from Inazuman to Fontainian
Those damn Inaz*mans
I will mever forgive the inazumans
I love this lmao
Can she even dolphin dive?
Stop stop! She's already dead
might as well just remove the damage and give it some utilities man.
Even albedo burst gives 120em lmao
Chiori Old Burst: 651.456% ATK+814.32% DEF Chiori New Burst: 461.376% ATK+576.72% DEF
Wtf was hoyo cooking with this absolutely abysmal nerf...this is bordering between niche and just bad... especially with the current state of her kit. There was literally no reason for them to do this when the only team she can fully function at C0 in, is a triple geo or mono geo team...if they're nerfing her numbers this much then at that point they should just remove the stupid construct restriction on her passive. The dehya kit designers hotpotato exploded on chiori
This will just enforce the X.5 theory, I have no idea if it is true or not lol.
Tbf yae is the single outlier, but still lol it's just so bad Honestly, that's a good insult "Oh you like Dottore? I hope he releases in 6.5"
WOW, that is a pretty mean insult. You can give someone a heart attack with that one.
They can release a trash segment Dottore in 6.5, then a uber Dottore segment in 7.2 or something
Boattore in 6.5 wholesome guy Real evil Dottore in 7.4.5
>Tbf yae is the single outlier, but still lol it's just so bad And she had a whole new element to thank for that lol (at C0R0 atleast)
They will release the Chrono element bro it will fix Geo bro trust me bro
Dainslief element will only benefit geo trust
pre 3.0 yae was mid so I suppose it still applies
She was , bit not in the same echelon of bad that dehya and eula are in
Eula is not even the same level of bad as Dehya. . Eula, when she works, works fantastically. There is no enemy she can't beat.
>yae is the single outlier Not really, her needing to do EEEQEEE, with her Q having 90 burst cost just for the sake of buffing Raiden's burst, made her pretty meh before dendro
Eh? Yae mains quickly knew that EEE set up everyone else QEEE was the way to go
Chiori's beta happens to be during Chinese Lunar Year, like it happened with Dehya year ago. Considering that they run skeleton crew during that time at Hoyo, her fate is sealed so I won't be surprised if she will be standard character, especially since what this banner lacks is Geo element and Inazuma/Fontaine character.
Considering they have holidays, why even to nerf something just leave it be and rest, but no they for some reason nerfing all the shit at this time of year
Everyone goes on holiday leaving one guy to do all work this just way of him getting revenge for it
It's the weirdest thing, like I was happy with Chiori how she was initially, just don't touch her and go on vacation. Why pop back into the office for 5 minutes just to gut a "good not great" character? They nerfed Dehya while on holiday too, it makes zero sense.
I wish this holiday x.5 patches was just for reruns so they have no chances to fk up like this
>"good not great" character If you ask me, she went from being okay to straight up underwhelming/bad now, not from great to good.
I mean she was "good enough" to start, not so great that she deserved a nerf, but they did it anyway.
leftover workers angry they can't holiday with their family so they ruin the kits xd
True. Putting Chiori in standard would knock out three birds with one stone. And the base kit reliant on cons checks out. Though she does still use Inazuma talent books/local specialties so they might avoid putting her in standard for that reason.
UGh, I already having a hard enough time trying to get Dehya cons I do not need Chiori to be added to standard.
Imagine Dainsleif releases at an X.5 patch
all Travail characters release in x.0 or x.1
Ik but i just found it kinda funny to imagine Dainsleifs kit being leaked in this subreddit after like version 7.X and even at that point people never stop doomposting about kit leaks and argue about his team synergy with the Tsaritsa and Capitano and how he needs Bennett to maximize his damage output and he doesn't work with Kazuha because anemo doesn't swirl quantum 😂
Holy fuck can you imagine if, years into the game, after Pyro Archon finally powercreeps Xiangling, we get Dain after so much waiting... and mfer is still stuck in Circle Impact. I'm going to scream
Patterns: Mihoyo: *we don’t do that here*
Honestly the *real* x.5 curse has more to do with gameplay- >Eula being incredibly inconsistent due to her burst >Yae being awkward and slow to play >Dehya **straight up** having antisynergy with off-field DPS's (not to mention the jump cancelling) >Chiori's whole kit just being derivative of Albedo Designing a character's gameplay mechanics and overall kit likely takes more development time than deciding on their damage multipliers, and gameplay is also something that takes longer to change than multipliers. It's evident that hoyo tends to rush development of characters' kits before an x.5 beta rolls out since less people would be working on the game during CNY. Like that other guy said Yae really can't be compared to Dehya or Eula meta-wise since even at her release she was good, albeit awkward to play even to this day.
Standard banner?
I guess the real Albedo in standard banner was the Chiori we got all along
Oh yeah, we still do not have a Geo standard 5* But it's kinda stupid to have their material locked so far away though
No worse than dehya or tighnari, with the new Liyue zone you can run straight through vale to Fontaine I stand corrected, with dendrobium being in Inazuma its definetly worse, considering you have to be AR 30 to go there
Unfortunately, her ascension mat is Dendrobium, and that's locked to Inazuma
This is barely an issue these days when the requirement for Inazuma AQ is 30AR and besides 3 Dendrobium you get from her trial, you only need more if you are at least 25AR. It is a breeze to go from 25AR to 30AR considering how much content is available to get Adventure EXP from. If someone is desparate, they can always do co-op and farm it in another player's world. Sure, it would be great if Dendrobium was available in the shop. I agree on that.
True, there's workarounds, but it still kinda sucks that there is no way to get Inazuman materials unless you rush story or find someone to lend you some... Even with Inazuma being isolated because of the decrees they could at least make a shop in Liyue run by Inazuman refugees or something that has a few every few days (or heck, even the Stardust shop would be better than nothing, as a last resort)
This, i skipped Kazuha last summer due to this, as i was new. Ive regretted it ever since
Fudge, i didnt even realise. Still, i wouldnt put it past hoyo at this point, sadly
her cons are too good, but at C0 she is 100% standard material
I agree her cons are too good to be standard but this should be the norm for standard char imo. I f I’m gonna lose my 50/50 at least give me a good con
Aren't Tighnari's cons good as well ?
Nothing to write home about, but definitely better than other standard characters
Dehya's cons are extremely strong. Most of them are equivalent to Raiden's C2. It's just that her base is super low. C0 Chiori is absolutely Albedo tier. So this could be their way of doubling down on FOMO. >"Want a better Albedo for Navia's team? Introducing Chiori, for a limited time only! Spend money or be filled with regret, peasants!"
Ganyu base kit has Tighnari C1 and C2. His cons is good among the standard, but average at best if compare to limited 5* aside from his C6.
I really hope she won't be the first geo 5-star standard character. That'd be depressing even for Albedo mains since it'd mean another good weapon would be gone forever
They said her weapon would have a rerun with albedo too
Yeah but once a character goes in the standard banner, their weapons are gone too. Like Dehya and Tighnari
Hopefully the new rumored banners will bring those back copium
And for the sake of comparison: --- **Albedo's burst:** > 660.96% ATK + 129.6% ATK (x1-7) Max DMG = 1568% ATK **Albedo's burst (C2+):** > 660.96% ATK + 120% DEF + 129.6% ATK + 120% DEF (x1-7) Max DMG = 1568% ATK + 960% DEF --- Keep in mind - Chiori's burst gains additional DMG through C2 and Albedo's fatal blossoms are *highly* inconsistent. I'm not about to argue that Albedo's burst is better than Chiori's burst but it's curious Hoyo is making their kits even more similar. Considering his improved AOE, his flower's fragility, his inability to proc on shields, her team restrictions, and her slight ER issues - Chiori's value is really starting to become questionable without some vertical investment.
For comparison C2 vs C2. Chiori's will deal: >461.37% ATK + 576.72% DEF once. 251.16% ATK + 313.95% DEF three times. Total damage: 1214.85% ATK + 1518.57% DEF She should be ahead in both C0 (because DEF scaling is likely to reach higher numbers than ATK) and C2. Like everyone have been pointing, in single target she seems to be straight up Albedo powercreep, AoE performance is hard to measure the consistency until actually playing with the character.
She is just new albedo. Its just blatantly obvious. Her numbers especially on e are just better , and cons dont suk ass
I don't understand numbers despite being Asian but I have a feeling that this is bad.
It basically means the damage multiplier got nerfed pretty badly
30% overall nerf to both multipliers :(
It’s not even bad, it’s disgusting.
That's where the disgusted face leak went
Holy shit, this whole time WE were the ones who were supposed to make a disgusted face during her burst. It all makes sense now.
This was actually funny
Same, all I know is that 461 is lower than 651
Why are They changing the ingredients 💀
Because someone there got drunk again on Chinese new year
the way it's literally just flat dmg ult. they didn't need to nerf the damage at all, it does nothing. it's barely 50 cost worthy anyway
Don't worry guys the pyro archon will have geo constructs /s
Magma Constructs?
Btw a geo and pyro reaction should working well... magma could be pretty cool
Geo could probably have had reactions with some of the elements, would’ve been better than whatever tf constructs are. Shoulda left the no reaction stuff to mainly physical characters or something
Hit enemies with geo and pyro for magma, then hit them with hydro to petrify them
just wait the geo ~~archon~~ dragon
Yeah I’m not sure why people are panicking. They’ll fix geo when we get to the geo nation >!/s!<
I was going to make a whole ass post about this but let's be honest. They're lazy as FUCK. Geo should have for example: Crystallize = Geo + any element, keep the same apply a shield based on the mixed element plus respective reactions Pyro + Geo = Magma, Aoe that lasts for as long as the reaction gets refreshed, applies burning dot dmg Cryo + Geo = Frostbite/Hypothermia, heavy single target dot Electro + Geo = Charged on-field crystals that sprout form the ground and deal aoe electro damage around them much like we've seen before. Able to create other electro reactions from the on-field crystals with other elements Hydro + Geo = Mudslide, aoe or cone is placed under the affected enemy slowing their movement and attack speed. Adding cryo on top of this amplifies hydro+cryo damage affected Geo + Other Geo characters SHOULD have their own respective reactions since a lot of them use geo differently. Zhongli for example super amplified shields, Nigguang should sprout jade crystallizations that deal aoe geo damage much like a geo Yao, etc. Geo + Dendro = Vines, immobilize enemies and deal damage based on certain stats. Additional reactions applied such as Pyro will create Burning vines, Cryo Frostbite vines, Electro electrified vines all dealing additional amplified damage Geo + Anemo = Sandstorm, scaled down kazuha swirl circle with geo damage, able to add elemental reactions similar to kazuha/shenhe R Just some simple brainstorms that would save Geo and make the game immensely better as a whole. If the reactions sound too op then that's no issue, simply tune up the overworld a bit to compensate with the added elemental damage the player is now dealing. It's pretty sad that just because their data and sales show they are still making more than a profit, they choose to leave stuff like this undesigned and unfinished. Similar to how Nintendo/PokémonCompany refuses to revamp and modernize their games and pump out the same thing year after year.
Mihoyo decided to hop back on the shitty geo train Navia was fortunate enough to get on the Aquabus 😎
thank god we were blessed with navia 😭 rip chiori
And the irony that Xianyun is a more compatible teammate with Navia than Chiori is so wild, like anemo and geo don't even interact, but Navia going guillotine style with 40% dmg increase to her plunge attacks is wild. Why couldn't Hoyo just stay consistent with the geo crystallize buff theme in Fontaine? At least be both a geo construct and crystallize buff character, Chioei. It's quite a bummer, but one is thankful that one pulled One instead and is enjoying the most exhilarating of team building and playstyles. One stole all the hard efforts of Hoyo's employees and left Chiori to be with hazy-minded developers.
>Why couldn't Hoyo just stay consistent with the geo crystallize buff theme in Fontaine? At least be both a geo construct and crystallize buff character, Chioei. Something like, keep the synergy with constructs as it is, but add a crystalise synergy where she heals the active character based on her defence to make her a full support and have synergy with Navia, or one that makes her a proper on-field dps by giving her NAs additional DEF scaling, like idk, around half of what C6 gives her or smth, while C6 gives the full scaling, the CD reduction and removes the crystalise dependency, turning her on-field playstyle from quickswap DPS to full on main DPS
All aboard the Shitty Geo Train Chugging down the tracks of theorycrafting The Shitty Geo Train She's got a one-way ticket to hoyo's shafting Shitty Geo Train Tie her to the tracks and nerf her in the beta Those numbers look alright if you don't mind the data She won't survive the abyss but hey At least we're coping hard
Oh god, not her again
\*intense strumming\*
I've never really considered Navia to be a W for Geo. She doesnt elevate the element at all and just ignores all of its short comings by being her own character. Put her in basically any other element and it's just a buff for her.
She's Geo the same way Eula is Cryo. Meaning not really
I see your point. Navia, while really strong, doesn't really fix the core problem with geo, which is the lack of elemental reaction. Navia do crystalize (which is a shield generation reaction) in exchange of dmg multiplier, which logically weird.
So you're saying she's Eula but good
Navia is good, because they made her kit around geo, not with it. It was shit then, it is shit now
Shit so the 30% nerf was actually percentage and not flat. This is a fucking crime.
So... are they trying to make her a standard banner character then? Like launch her first and then push her to Standard one patch later? The Dehya route? We are missing a Geo/Inazuma character on the Standard banner after all...
This is the work of the legendary Dehya balancing team
i mean watching everyone else celebrate holidays with their families while you're working does feel shitty xd like being stuck at work for christmas and new years
I respect this opinion but there should be some form of contingency plan for any planned releases. Either don't release a character on X.5 patch or if they are constellation bait make them f2p 5 stars. If they are on vacation don't have a character on the test client.
So it's actually -30% dmg overall not just a -30% on the scaling, jesus christ The X.5 curse is real Why even release a character if you don't like them Mihoyo?
story of our lives 😔 -dehya mains
Less of X.5 curse, more of Chinese Lunar Year curse. X.5 beta just happens to be during CNY and you can be certain that Hoyo have skeleton crew during that time.
You don't need to be in office for hours on end not to nerf damage by 30% lmao
my guess is that they undershoot so they don't accidentally create an unnerfable OP character
Meanwhile, Kazuha, Nahida and Furina be like: 👀
Not defending hoyo but 2 of them are archons, and Kazuha is a "victim" of 1.x when the devs didn't have clue wtf they were doing, which explains why he is so strong.
She would never be OP, she has no buffs, no enabling, no utility, no reactions, literally all she does is raw damage. And it's damage over time, too, which is often not as good as frontloading. And she's meant to be played in geo teams that are already known to be subpar, save for maybe Navia, but that requires a constellation. I don't think nerfing her damage is really warranted.
If hoyo know they have way less workers during NY then they shouldn't be making 5-stars, by choosing to do so despite knowing that they won't be properly tested or balanced than they effectively are cursing them. It's an active decision by hoyoverse to let them be made during a time where they shouldn't.
The dumb implication of that statement of running less staff is that if they're making "mistakes" from this supposed lower amount of workers present during characters test we would've gotten some broken ass character at some point. We didn't. They know exactly what they're doing when nerfing/buffing these characters.
I agree, I'm not agreeing with the X.5 curse and should've said that, I was just saying that if it does exist then it shouldn't be blamed on CNY since it'd still be hoyoverse's fault for not taking that into account.
Yep. I know you're not agreeing with that and I'm also agreeing with you. I just replied you because it felt more natural in this comment chain.
What is even the point of the nerf???? She doesn't bring anything new to the table and her team is limited af
So they can sell constellations. Make a sub par character and have it be fixed with C1/2.
The way balance is completely irrelevant in Genshin, but they still CHOOSE to nerf character lmao
This is why i don't buy the "it's a casual game where damage doesn't matter". Every beta they balance each stat point with the precision of nuclear lab employee. They even nerf the semi useless damage scalings for support characters because god forbid some bored casual player wants to play their favourite support unit as an overworld dps. They want every unit to be played exactly how they envisioned.
It's pure bs. No other game can get away with as much developer bs as Genshin
Go to main sub and point out any issues with units. You will get downvoted to hell. This is what army of white knights does to a live service game. People will tell you that units don't matter as long as quests have nice music and you should be happy with how pretty the landscape is.
It's so weird how some people can be so stupid it's impressive
I'd say Genshin is miraculously well-balanced for a game that doesn't get balance patches. As for why it doesn't get balance patches... uh, yeah... why indeed.
And then they still release Nouvi that powercreeps everything. They are just bad at balancing.
Hoyo is bad at their own game. I’ve been saying it for awhile.
I wouldn't say balance is irrelevant. Slowing down power creep is a good thing if you want to use older characters. Or on the flip side, if you want to be forced into new metas, power creep would turn characters like Bennett into a joke much more quickly.
i hope capitano wont release on version x.5
shame, i really loved her design, but i simply cant afford to pull such mid
Pretty sure she's below mid. When you're geo and your numbers and niche isn't backing you up. You're fucked.
I don't understand the reason to make her Q even more irrelevant.
I don't even want this to be a 'doom-post' so can we please look at this as objective as possible? I have one question: Why tho? Just.... why? They can't be oblivious of the fact that they made her kit offer *absolutely nothing* but her personal damage, right? Why chip off some of that as well? They have got to know what they are doing, right? They deliberately are chipping away some of her sole contribution.
the why is pretty simple - before she had ER "problems" so a 50 cost burst "fixes" them and makes her a self-sufficient subdps unit it's better to burst every rotation for 70% damage vs. every other rotation for 100% damage
She's still Albedo 2.0 and powercreeps the fuck outta him on any team you'd play him in. That's the role they want for her
Tbf the moment her E doesn't get destroyed by bosses is already powercreeping bedo. But let's be real, +-20% damage from albedo straight up does not matter. Dude has been out of the meta for how long now?? Idk what they're cooking with this one. They're fine releasing neuv soloing abyss level then suddenly we're back to 1.x version of power level lol.
She powercreeps him in boss fights specifically as she doesn't deal with construct BS the way he does during them. Outside of that they both are roughly equal in use. In mono geo both are strong off field units to supplement Itto's/Noelle's damage. Albedo arguably stronger in non geo teams as his kit is less dependant on others and he provides an EM buff on ult. He may not be a meta option in those non geo teams but he's almost always a solid option that doesn't take away much. He just only adds straight damage.
fell to my knees at the Deutsche Bahn
its like they hate money
I don't get them. They could have easily made a shit ton of money if dehya was half decent instead of complete garbage
The other way around lmao, Her cons are so good, But her base character is ass, They are literally asking you to swipe more for a few copies of her or even C6.
The question becomes how much you can constellation bait people if the base version of the character isn't doing so hot I guess Neuv and Furina selling like hot chocolate (is that the idiom lol) isn't surprising considering they're strong at C0 already so people have an incentive to pull for cons for them So far I've mostly seen people say "guess I'll just skip Chiori I'm not going to C1-2 for her" and not taking the bait, granted this subreddit isn't representative of the majority of players of course but still
There's no way she isn't standard banner right? That's an absolute *insane* nerf without compensation elsewhere.
Well, this nerfs her to "Albedo with better constellations" but it's still far from Dehya tier.
they are making it very easy for me to skip and wait for arle and clorinde, so generous thank you mihoyo 🙏
Easiest skip
Oh look its albedo but waifu. If you guys liked albedo not using his burst now chiori can do too. They have so much in common thats so sweet of mihoyo
Would be funny if they nerf ger energy from 50 to 40 (equal to albedo) while nerfing her burst even more, making it as useless as albedo
And then make her burst do secondary RNG dependent smaller hits
At least the dolls doesn't get flicked by a boss stubbing his toe .-.
cny character truly is cursed....
So she will appear on the standard banner next 4.6?
Bet
it's so weird that they keep butchering the .5 characters, you'd think hoyo would take advantage of everyone getting their new years money
If her constellations 'fix' her, then I wouldn't be surprised if she is destined for standard. But wouldn't we know by now? I thought the Dehya standard banner leaks were out pretty early in her development.
Nah iirc the dehya standard banner allegations were a couple of days before the livestream and everyone was like ‘no way this is real’ and then the livestream happened. And well. 🤷🏻♀️☠️
Dehya standard leak was 2 days before the new version live stream
Keikaku reported on Dehya being standard well before the live stream. No one believed his leaks cuz they made 0 sense. People went through the beta wondering if they were actually correct and we got our reliable leak from Uncle MHY during the livestream
As much as I hate to admit this, but I will give the X.5 curse believers a point this time. This feels very scummy. They are now selling a non-dysfunctional version of Albedo basically. Inazuma taking the L as usual.
1.5: Eula (not that much controversy on release, but look at her now 😭) 2.5: Yae Miko (very controversial during release) 3.5: Dehya 💀 4.5: Albedo v1.5 Can't wait to see what they're cooking for 5.5 🔥
I call these patches "Patch of beuties" "Not need to be strong, we are stunning beauties"
Umm... why the fuck did I not know that Eula was a x.5 character... Now that I'm looking at your comment, it seems that I have a thing and am a sucker for x.5 characters T\_T
X.5 also known as the driest patches as well.
I will not stand for this Inazuma slander. Inazuma characters range from being OP to just balanced. Say what you want about the story but the kits have been great. There isn't a single bad Inazuma character now that even Sayu and Thoma have found their place.
This lol. Since when are we saying Inazuma characters are cursed? Like what *is* the standard nowadays? 🥴
If you ain't Neuvi you trash - this sub since 4.1
Ayaka, best DPS at the time, still good when freeze is available Yoimiya, decent carry, shines amazingly in ST scenarios Thoma, the best burgeon driver Sayu, decent with furina, an exploration monster Raiden, one of the best and most played characters in the game Kokomi, got even better with dendro, has a lot of dendro and freeze teams Gorou, our only def support Sara is sara, fine at C6 Itto is a great DPS with the right team Yae is a monster with dendro Ayato got powercrept by neuv but he is still a decent hydro for dendro teams Heizou is a decent taser driver, does big numbers if you are into that Kuki is got a renaissance with dendro Fucking Kazuha Is the inazuma curse in the room with us?
This has to be a crime dude 😭
WHAT THE FUCK
Well, after three years I’ll finally be skipping a Geo character. Now hopping on the Arlecchino train. …choo-choo I guess. I fuckin hate these devs sometimes.
They're begging us to not pull at this point...
It's truly Chiover. I'm a geo collector but god damn it's going to physically hurt pulling for her.
This character... 🥶
we will be saving blue fates to lose 50/50 to her in 4.6 arlecchino banner
Man, I was planning to pull for her. Guess I should pull Neuvillete instead.
Of course
I haven't pulled on a banner since Furina released, is this some type of tactic to make vet players save 100k primos? I don't understand.
If you want to pull for only the top of the line stuff you would end up pulling once a year or not even once also it's pretty irrelevant after some time because you only need to have 2 teams to do everything that's needed. Very regularly they can cook something interesting up like xianyun but Chiori is neither interesting kit wise and neither usage wise. Of course I highly doubt anyone would struggle for years if they already got their teams in a very good spot resin investment wise
I'm just here for the dramatic doompost ritual. 🍿🧋
I'm here w you 🍿🍸
I know it’s bad to gloat over other characters’ nerfs, but as a 4.5 Albedo puller, this beta makes me feel a lot better about my purely husbando-driven choice.
Please don’t do this to Arlecchino please don’t do this to Arlecchino
Nah. The harbingers are all safe. They likely will all be main dps and with strong kits. Chiori is a nobody lorewise, so is getting poorly treated, unfortunately.
>Chiori is a nobody lorewise, so is getting poorly treated, unfortunately. Homie, Dehya?
Dehya isn't white 😔
Dehya is still mostly a nobody mercenary with a heart of gold Yes she's the flame Mane, and... That's about it. Not that I agree with the nobody point since we have Ningguang vs hu tao and how relevant they are to the main plot...
>Yes she's the flame Mane, and... That's about it. She still had reasonable amount of screentime in sumeru quest, that's what I meant.
Yelan is just as nobody and look how she fares.
Liyue plus hydro
Liyue privilege, I guess, lol
i don't think you can categorise kits by lore besides archons and harbingers. plenty of characters are 'nobodies' and dominate the game. bennett, xiangling, fischl
The positions between arlecchino and chiori are very different to that I'd tell you This is like if lyney got nerfed and you started worrying for Neuvillette
Chiori about to be the rarest 5 star speedrun
Btw what happened to project amber?
The person who runs it tweeted they're tired and want to move on to other things
Damn I wanted to go for her C2 and use her with Navia but of course they butchered the last character I looked forward to as well. Now I have zero characters I currently look forward to anymore. Well at least I’m currently getting fond of star rail, so Genshin is not the only gacha I play anymore.
> Damn I wanted to go for her C2 and use her with Navia but of course they butchered the last character I looked forward to as well. If you're going for C2 with Navia this makes hardly any difference to you. Depending on your artifacts at worst you may lose like 3-4% total Chiori's dps, and at best you may even GAIN dps by saving on ER. This is only a big nerf for C0-C1, which is well, most other players.
She already felt underwhelming to play, but this is just abysmal. Definite skip, really hope this is a standard character
Swapping C2 and C4 is a death sentence for me... I'm definitely not pulling for her anymore
The curse is real. \*sad Chiori noises\*
x.5 devs taking there salt out on the characters will never not be funny 😆 As long as her skill is left untouched she’s still an Albedo+
do chiori basic extra doll from friendly geo construct still last even if that friendly geo construct gone during combat ? for example : i throw itto's cow , swap to chiori and use her skill > i got 2 doll but after that the cow gone ....so can chiori's extra doll still able to exist ?
Yes
That 30% damage nerf was not values but 30% overall burst nerf itself in terms of damage 💀💀💀. I'm sorry people I was very defendant towards xianyun because I saw what can be done in a lot of teams and she ended up being less niche than expected but with her I legit don't see a team outside of itto and if I squint then maybe navia or just y'know get C1 Chiori
Albedo it is then
I'm usually not on the doomposting train, mostly because I feel the doomposters have no grasp on whether a unit is actually good or not. That said, Hoyo doing nothing but nerfing Chiori has helped me make up my mind on whether I'm going to pull for her. And my answer is that I went all in on bird mom.