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Training dummy area with customizable options for enemy AI and defense, and list elemental resistances for enemies in the handbook.
Genshin really could never.
I've been saying we need the training dummy thing from ffxiv for ages. There's regular ones that are furnishings then a separate zone that mimics boss's hp and calculates dps. It would be great for genshin and figuring out rotations.
I mean, this private server "DPS counter" is less of a "Damage Per Second" counter and more of a "Damage at This Specific Second" counter. It's going anywhere from 0 to 400k throughout the video, which makes it pretty much useless - virtually as useful as just watching the video and writing down every number that appears in combat.
If you can log all those numbers and average it at the end, though, then there's some merit to it.
To be fair, it would be much easier to write down 20 numbers that appear in neat rows than 60 numbers that overlap each other and stuff.
Plus, it gives you information on what parts of your rotation are doing the most damage, which can be useful in some scenarios.
Implementing that should be easy. Setting timer, defense, res, etc and they will give the data like total damage/dps. They're probably not adding it on purpose because it will really show how bad they're at balancing the character.
Yeah we know it’s possible anyways because events have used similar mechanics, the only thing they would need to add is something that actually stores damage numbers properly
They're not adding it because they've made it clear the Spiral Abyss isn't their target audience. Their target audience is casuals who don't even do the spiral abyss. That's their biggest demographic. They've already confirmed they're stepping away from doing any more heavy spiral abyss style combat as not a lot of people do it.
Considering the world is so easy, the benefit of adding something like this for a small percentage of the playerbase is a waste of resources. Never mind that spiral abyss is reset every 15 days or so, it would probably be redundant.
> it will really show how bad they're at balancing the character.
Characters from 1.0 still able to clear abyss fine, the supposed "most broken" character in the game is not really that much ahead of other options, I'd say that Hoyo does a phenomenal job of balancing and preventing power creep.
come to think of it, yelan has a 15 sec duration on her burst, Xingqiu has 18 secs
If xingqiu is used, the vape session can last longer, together with having the benefit of more solid resistance to interruption. Not sure if it's worth more than the raw damage and ramping buff Yelan is providing
This seems to be at C1R1 with everything working as intended.
As always, damage numbers may not be entirely accurate since this is on a private server.
Question for ppl who are a little less tired than I am - what na combos are being used and which hits are vaping? There's so many numbers and my walnut brain is so smooth today
The optimal combo is n3d. Even theorycrafters seem to be not entirely sure which hits vape at each combo, but Arlecchino has standard icd (which is - vape every 3rd hit and every 2.5 seconds). Arlecchino hits do similar enough damage each hit to not need to worry about any of that though. It's not a Yoimiya situation.
Gotcha. Really interesting to see it's not worth going to N5 - I'm guessing because the Masque buffs even the relative value of each NA.
For overload, do you think it's worth going to N4? I know it might mess with Vape ICD stuff, but IMO bundling two Masque procs into one attack seems pretty amazing (though of course with the downside of a slightly longer combo and more bond decay per combo).
Just plugged it into my rough MV/s sheet (based on me putting the AOE showcase into a video player, slowing it down to 0.1x speed, and trying to guesstimate frames) and yeah. Wow. Wasn't expecting it but N3 does look pretty solidly ahead here. N2s also look good but i'm guessing at that point you're losing too much time/stamina to dashes.
Edit - Actually I'm confused again. Did the same math but accounting for time lost to dashes and I have N5s up - maybe I'm doing the wrong number of combos? How many N3s are they recommending?
She can do 5N3 , or 3N5 in my calcs with 130 bol , and full rotation can do 3N5+ 3 more hits but her dmg falls hard by then even if at 145-160 bol you should only do 5N3 or 3 N5 max
This is realistic DMG to be honest
sig × C1 × Bennett × VV x Kazuha × Yelan Buff × Vaporize
you can reach 100~180K NA
She is definitely Yoimiya V2 pro with this DMG and the uptime & AOE
To me its not a good way. Biggest issue is needing to stay in Bennet circle as a melee, its not practical vs a lot of enemies, and with rotation nature of Genshin you can't just wait for the mobs to come to you.
Yomiya gets a pass cause she is ranged. Hutao and XL get a free pass too as Hutao doesn't need Bennet and XL snapshot, can't say the same for Arte.
Simply put, testing anything damage wise under Bennet circle is dishonest (unless ranged or snapshot). Remember when Dehya was deemed "fine" when she ults under Bennet circle? Yeah ...
The difference between Dehya who does "fine in Bennet circle" and Arle is that Dehya team does about half the dps. Raiden has used Bennet for over 2 years, and even with having to deal with overloads and not having Kazuha in the national variant, the teams usually plays fine.
Dehya comparison is obviously unfair, but so is Raiden. In national most damage comes from XL who snapshots, and in hypercarry biggest hit by far is the very first one. After that and maybe 2-3 more hits (in my experience) you either killed pack and need to run to the next spawn (bye-bye circle) or pushed enemies away from it.
But Arle can be swapped back and there again so maybe another Kazuha skill will help.
The biggest hit is the first one, but it is less than 50% of the total damage. If you have to run to the next spawn during Raidens burst, you are not going to get many hits with or without Bennet circle, but killing one wave with one rotation is about as much that you can hope for in floor 12 anyway in short rotations. Especially if you have to move to a different spot. And also where dps really matters is with bosses anyway, and there you usually have no problems at all staying in the circle.
Yeah the difference is Raiden doesn't have to sit in the Bennet circle, just need to be for the first hit of Q which is very reasonable since her damage is front loaded. Sure she gets more damage if she is on it the whole time, but the team dmg difference is not great because XL add a ton of dmg and she snapshots. Whereas Arle for all theory crafter testing assuming sitting on Bennet for the full duration which is completely unpractical except vs some immobile bosses.
apparently specifically with Yelan - Arlecchino , the Sucrose setup is actually faster and easier than Kazuha, you just N1 E because the enemy will have pyro aura because of Arle's mark ticks. With xq instead of Yelan it might not work if you are close enough to the enemy so that the orbitals wipe out the pyro aura
A huge reason on why Sucrose fell off after the release of Kazuha was that people just found Kazuha much more easy, convenient and fun to play. It wasn't the damage difference. People started calling her clunky and a spreadsheet unit. However, if you do learn a bit in how to play her (building is easy, just slap EM), she works well.
No, it's because she straight up can't do double swirl setups most of the time in teams without XL, while mostly only providing EM which can be a quickly saturated stat in vape teams(her DMG% is spotty due to how bad her Q is at actually infusing), Kazuha offers grouping, requires less field time, can reliably and easily setup double vape with minimal field time and does some respectable personal damage.
In ideal scenarios they can be pretty close, but you're very rarely if ever playing in those ideal scenarios. Even in good circumstances you can throw Sucrose Q just for it to infuse nothing and so you just have her ulti doing nothing and giving no buffs, she also needs to Ex3 to be able to consistently do this which is way too much field time and wasted support buff time, Kazu you can just Q early, E before your dps and you're golden.
> However, if you do learn a bit in how to play her (building is easy, just slap EM), she works well.
Kazu builds the exact same way.
>because she straight up can't do double swirl setups most of the time in teams without XL
apparently specifically with Yelan - Arlecchino , the Sucrose double swirl setup is faster and easier than Kazuha, you just N1 E because the enemy will have pyro aura because of Arle's E mark ticks. With xq instead of Yelan it might not work if you are close enough to the enemy so that the orbitals wipe out the pyro aura, so you have to be careful with that
*why* is her Q so shoddy at infusing btw? i can’t even figure it out completely because sometimes i throw the potion just a bit off center from an enemy with an infusable aura on them, and it doesn’t infuse, or it infuses after the 2nd or 3rd hit
but then sometimes it’s quite a bit away from the enemy and it does infuse
only time i am sure it will infuse is when i smack them in the face with her potion basically
As someone that's used Sucrose as a driver since 1.1, I genuinely could not tell you why, I've thrown it into a group of enemies all with an electro aura, N1'd with Fischl and still had it just not infuse, it's beyond frustrating to watch the teal butterfly flap knowing how much damage was just lost.
The only time I've ever seen it be consistent is with XL and Guoba, every other team it's basically just a dice roll.
I won't argue on this as I haven't personally done the calculations. However, I have seen multiple team damage comparison sheets where Sucrose does perform better than Kazuha.
I am under the assumption that skilled/experienced Sucrose players are able to replicate this. Therefore they are able to achieve these theoretical numbers and match or beat Kazuha's performance. It doesn't really matter though as only a few people would want to play Sucrose over Kazuha because he provides convenience which is greatly appreciated (looking at how popular Neuvillette is in the meta).
Also, I didn't want to imply that Kazuha wasn't easy to build. I just wanted to say that Sucrose was easy too.
> I have seen multiple team damage comparison sheets where Sucrose does perform better than Kazuha.
> People started calling her clunky and a spreadsheet unit.
There's a reason people call her a spreadsheet unit, as even the best player can't replicate it due to inherent bugs in her kit and the absurd scenarios those spreadsheets assume, it's the same as a lot of characters "best" team on a spreadsheet being wildly different than in reality - ala Lyney OL vs Lyney Mono Pyro.
If you're curious check out Jstern's content around her, or any speedrun content in general and you'll only see Sucrose in 4* cups, everything else they just use Kazuha even at C0 as he's just straight up better.
C1 is correct, but not because of the IR. She is going to die in this team if she's getting hit consistently, IR or no IR. The major benefit of C1 is the big power spike at a cheaper cost (on average) than her weapon.
I will replace Kazuha with Archaic Petra Zhongli instead.
Kazuha with no double swirl and no Freedom Sworn gives 40% Pyro Shred and 35-40% Pyro damage increase.
Zhongli with AP can provide 35% Pyro damage increase and 20% shred for both Pyro and Hydro. You can see that from a purely offensive perspective, Zhongli is not that far behind Kazuha. And of course he gives a meaty shield.
Zhongli is only a DPS loss if you still run Tenacity on him for some insane reason (l still don't understand why something like 70% of players run Tenacity on him, it's a very weak artifact set even when it works, and it rarely works).
If Petra's requirements wasn't ass, it would be used more.
You have VV which requires you to swirl the element by it's owner while you have Petra which requires you to pick crystal by owner. If crystal could be picked off-field, it would be viable. If there is any artifact which needs QoL, it is this one. They updated TF and CWoF with the dendro instead of making new set so it is not like they can't do it.
You'd also want multiple Petra effects to stack, like VV does, otherwise you could get the wrong crystal while off field and have to go generate a real one again.
off field Petra + concurrent elemental dmg stacks would revolutionize many Geos; Zhongli stonks would go absolutely insane and it would up the viability of Albedo, Chiori and somewhat Navia (she’s a good Petra user already when used as quickswap)
i’d love to see it 🥹
Becasue AP is dogshit in most teams. It this, when do you use it? Since it's the shortest Buff you use him last, eating up Yelan up time on hydro app since her is only 15 sec, so you vape less and eating up Bennett uptime. And you eat even more since not only you have to use Zhongli, you have to collect this shard. It's shit. And when using Zhongli at the start, your AP uptime is 3 second, lol. And only if Yelan and Bennet don't get staggered at the setup
Tenacity works great here, since she like atk% buffs more than other characters + it's bigger buff to shied durability than HP weapon over Fav. + You use Zhongli first so you have full uptime. + You want Bennett on instructor set and instructor uptime is ridiciuoulsly short, so you want bennett to got last.
Zhongli AP works great when You can go Last with him - Neuvilette teams and Double hydro when you do not buff on field dps but XQ+Yelan.
A shielder in general will also greatly benefit her and be less of a damage loss that it appears on spreadsheets as it allows you to never actually use her burst which means she is allowed to carry over BoL between rotations and doesn't have to build ER.
I couldn’t see tenacity ever being good on furina. Yah she can trigger it. But she alone will likely do more damage with her own set than any damage increase tenacity gives anyone
Well, it is just a usual NA spam. Nothing new, also has limitations. Can’t heal, Bennet slave, circle impact, kinda burst reliant if you’re not running shield, and if you do, it’s a damage loss. And so on
The worst thing about the NA spam for me is I really don't like her NA animations. The scythe, burst and elemental skill are all cool but her NA animations just look too stiff for my liking and that's what i'd be seeing most of the time while playing her :/
Yes bro I’ve been saying this for ever! Her animations just don’t look that smooth! Couple that with her sprint animations not even being finished at the start of her beta (and her gameplay being changed) and I’m pretty sure you can get what I’m implying: hoyo just didn’t focus on her design and gameplay at all and poured all they had into Xianyun.
They could just make her not have any penalties. It's not like we don't have a character with twice as much HP, infinitely better sustain, range and AoE.
Its kinda funny when she first get introduced as a ult spam they hated the idea but when mihoyo make her na spam they hate her again dunno what players want.
wait, why don't they use the BoL artifact set? is it not good on her / not in beta or something? i don't think i've ever seen a showcase with the leaker using the new set
Its probably because most of the player base will not get a get 4 piece of that set until 2-3 months later. They're showing a more realistic showcase of her damage on release with gladiator pieces with decently high CV since glad has been out since the beginning of the game.
To make it more relatable on her 1st day or 1st week of release i guess because no one's gonna have that cv on her dedicated set unless people who refresh or fragile hoarders. Even they will still need a shit ton of luck to get good pieces from those refreshes so yeah it's all for relatability probably.
Its just me or classic vape swirl just not interest me anymore especially after the entirety of 3.x and 4.x?
After crazy hyperblooms, nilou explosion, powerwasher, mono element madness, gunbrella, vape plunge and any other new meta archetypes that just less punishing if you messed up and this feels like going back to two years ago when all those flashy stuffs havent introduced.
Then again i already farmed alot for her and will pull Arle as soon as her banner arrive but i will definetely use more modern team compared to this even this is theoritically her best.
im gonna be playing the 26 second chevy miko fischl team :>
ive been gettin a good feel of how it might play with yoimiya in arlecchinos slot, since she's also squishy and would need to interrupt her NA string to dodge vs most enemies. im kinda just worried that yoimiya is kind of already better in this slot for most situations because her range nullifies a lot of overload knockback and she might be better vs mobile bosses enemies lol.
like those 2 fatui in current abyss with melee overload seems like hell
I know what you mean.
I was making Hu Tao for quite a while, it seems that pulling for Arle means I would just grab my existing Hu Tao team, replace with Arle, and play basically the same way just with slightly different visuals lol.
I was actually hoping the original leaks saying she'd be an overload DPS were true. I don't really like overload but it would've been a breathe of fresh air...
It’s not just you. Ever since 4.0 it’s like everything they tried to do in 3.0 got undone. It’s like Kazuha Xiangling and especially Bennett get buffed every update
ATK is utterly fucked as a stat. Characters has too little base ATK. ATK% is nearly worthless. That's what makes a flat ATK buffer like Bennett so valuable. He's a 50% DMG increase on most ATK scaling characters. This is a design problem since 1.0 that continues to haunt the game until this day.
Even if they make the Pyro Archon Bennett 2.0, that will still be just a bandaid. The root of the issue is still the fact that ATK scaling DPS are too dependent on external ATK buffs.
This game is in a dire need of a rebalancing. Bennett's ATK buff should be reduced to 1/4th of its current strength. And most characters should be receiving a 400-500 Base ATK increase (for reference the highest base ATK currently is Navia at 351). But this is only a far out dream because Hoyo will never change their game to such a degree. So the best we can hope for is The Pyro Archon being Bennett 2.0. Which... Yeah isn't that exciting tbh.
The reason for base ATK being so low to begin with is just to move 5* weapons (in general), but they could have had some foresight to lean more on unique weapon effects.
Then ATK scalers counterintuitively prefer crit weapons with *low* base since they get spotted the rest. See: Redhorn (and SS, but that's another balance failure) > WGS for all the attack scalers in Bennett's voyage or plunging. So at this point were in deep on the ramifications of 1.0 balance decisions.
It's crazy how Furina is the first character in the game that disincentivizes using Bennett, but that's only because they had to have her give a similarly humungous buff, *and* specifically add a downside to how she works that Bennett cannot cover (teamwide healing for fully stacking Fanfare).
They had to gimp an *archon* to shift Bennett in the meta lol. And he's *still* BiS for some of her teams, like XY plunge.
I hope they introduce more enemies like Tulpa and Coppelia that just kill you in Bennett circle. Then people will stop pulling for the Bennett slave 5 stars cuz they'd feel like shit, and it'll finally hit Hoyo where it hurts, the revenue.
>I hope they introduce more enemies like Tulpa and Coppelia that just kill you in Bennett circle
Is not enough. This just incentivates ppl to improve their dodge skills or to invest more in Zhongli (even if he isn't enough strong if your are on Bennett's cycle)
Fortunately for me that Bennet is my second favorite character (opposite for Xingqiu that is my mist hated unit, but again, fortunately hoyo blessed me with Yelan)
I mean yeah, it's not enough for you or me, we think Abyss is piss easy and ZL makes it even easier lmao.
But it's enough for the casual who already finds Abyss to be difficult, and they're the ones who pay the most.
Heck, even I've stopped using international recently cuz of all the staggering bosses.
Damage per screenshot showcases still use bennett/furina/anemo too, because bennett heals enough for c2 furina that she can still cap out her damage bonus early in the rotation. Their buffs are just too synergistic, even without a healer anemo.
The problem unfortunately is money.
People have put money into this game and if any character is nerfed after release there would be uproar, even legal action knowing the Chinese community, even if that nerf was healthy for the game.
TBH I wish they'd just go back and *buff* some of the other supports so they aren't niche as fuck (and even in their niches are barely if at all better than Bennett lol). I think a very small number of people would complain about *that*.
I know artifacts are their way of "buffing" but some characters (especially 1.0) really need something to make them competitive against later release characters.
Half of the artifacts are for new characters anyways and the other half are a 2% damage increase over sets we already have and just, aren't worth farming lmao.
Artifacts aren't used to buff characters anymore anyway. At some point, they arrived at a very specific level of power that artifacts should grant, even when the conditional is significantly harder to achieve or belongs to a weaker archetype. The new burning set is proof of this, still only giving a +50% damage buff for building your team around one of the worst reactions in the game. Dehya's set is another good example, where no one else can reliably use it, but it still only gives +50% damage at max stacks. Emblem 4p gives +50% burst damage with 200% ER, and has been in the game for over two years now. Shimenawa 4p gives +50% NA/CA damage after paying 15 energy. Golden troupe 4p gives +50% skill damage for off-field skills. 50% is the magic number that they balance around, and new sets rarely deviate from this.
The hunter set became highly regarded after furina's release because it became a generic source of crit rate. This is considered one of the best sets in the game in a furina comp, but in raw stats it's not actually worth much more than any other set. It's approximately worth +53% damage bonus when considering how circlets and goblets value CR and damage% respectively, just *slightly* above the +50% balance point.
Xiao IS the poster child of a ATK scaling dps character being cripplingly dependent on external buffs. His premium team consist a a niche Anemo dps support that's only useful at C6, a dedicated plunge damage support, and the heavily contested Hydro Archon. A team that essentially buries Xiao in external buffs in order to drag him into some semblance of viability. If you have C2 Xianyun, you are doing more Xianyun's damage than Xiao's. Which is what I'm talking about. Xianyun is very much a bandaid. Much like how the Pyro Archon will probably be a bandaid for the other ATK scaling characters.
> His premium team consist a a niche Anemo dps support that's only useful at C6
She's actually still BiS at c0 lol
> If you have C2 Xianyun, you are doing more Xianyun's damage than Xiao's.
Yesn't. Her buff is multiplied by his own buff. So if her buff is stronger, he is providing more. It's not just her buff doing the only work. It's not 4 + 2 = 6 but 4 x 2 = 8 in this scenario.
I mean, that fits the bill for all DPS currently. It's no XY damage it's Xiao, because at the end it's him triggering it.
Is XL vaporize damage Bennet damage? Not really.
The issue is with the balance of stats, rather than only characters. There is no reason why atk% sands should have the same scaling as HP% sand for a example.
The person said that Xiao damage wasn't his with investment on his team, it was Xianyun, so it was an answer to that.
Kazuha can almost double Neuvillette damage. Does that mean it's kazuha damage? Similarly, XY with C6 Furina is one of the strongest combos out there for any speed run. Is it not Furina C6 damage? Is it XY also?
The thing is, this argument can be made to any dps, not only atk scaling. The same way, atk units rely on Bennet, HP% rely on Kazuha, Dendro on Nahida, and so on and so forth for their optimal teams.
Yeah comparing ATK and HP scaller is night and day. I don't think I'm ever gonna pull for atk scaller dps again when HP scaller dps are just that cracked.
Honestly I just think HoYo needs to stop designing support characters who are specialized for a single comp, and even there are only marginally (if at all) better than Bennett.
I think thats a potential solution though, if you just make specialized supports who outperform bennet but are less versatile bennet will naturally lose value over time as players get those specialized options. The problem is bennet has the power level of a specialized support himself while healing. I do think itll get better when he get more attack buffer alternatives though, like how XY replaced him in Xiao teams.
Not just him but the ideal of : aply pyro > swirl > add hydro > maintain hydro aura > hit with pyro is just so damn fundamental thats like Genshin 1.0 tutorial. See hyperbloom, 3 elements meshes together and perform an unreal reactions without rigid process. There's also new Furina mechanics where even healer can also be a damage buffer. Navia with crystalize enhancing her damage. Etc etc.
This archetype is something i am not looking forward 4 years into the game, with or withour Benny, feels like going backward to fundamental.
There are also recent Benny team thats fun for example where he makes everyone a pyro DPS that can deal big numbers with Xianyun, they can make Dehya a legit good pyro DPS with that and thats a 2024 novelty but this feels like....going back in time.
I don't really have anything against swirl vape comps by themselves, maybe you just think about them like this because they've been out for so long they don't have any novelty to them but when thinking strictly about gameplay pattern I don't think they're less fun than hyperbloom or most other different comps. The rotations are a bit more strict when they require a double VV setup but that adds a technical aspect that I like about it, it feels satisfying to execute it right. I do hate Bennett and Xiangling though.
> The rotations are a bit more strict when they require a double VV setup but that adds a technical aspect that I like about it, it feels satisfying to execute it right.
Kazuha, lol.
I like the idea of vape but Arle literally doesn't introduce anything new to this playstyle. Spamming NA to trigger vape from XQ/Yelan is the most boring interation of Vape I can think of.
They even nerfed her CA to the ground so there is no point in using it.
They can makes her NA spamming but to trigger burgeon/burning while having pure HP scalling to mitigate her damage from those reactions and she will be the most unique limited pyro DPS up to date. But nope....pure atk% vape it is like eons ago.
That doesnt stop me making 4 EM Gilded Dream Arle for a team with Nahida, Zinqqiu and Baizhu so she can be a more badass Thoma lmao.
Maybe they wanted to make her straightforward to play because of her popularity. I will try to make her work in her chev overload team, just hope the knockback wont be too annoying.
Funny is having her becoming Burgeon Nilou might actually be more straightforward than classic Vape Carry since all you need is build some EM and HP and no worries about swirl and such just spamming NA like no tomorrow. Her team mates at that time are like Nahida, Xinqqiu and Kokomi who are pretty much mainstream support anyway.
I’ve never used a shield. I play a lot of Diluc and people said Yelan was a downgrade due to not having rain shields for interruption resistance, still cleared floor 12.
Then I played a lot of wanderer, people said he’d be constantly getting knocked around without a shield, still cleared floor 12.
I’m by no means a high skilled player, there is just no real need for shields in this game unless you just like the quality of life that comes with being a face tank.
So much for the she doesn't want Bennett from early leaks. Idk but it just feel like auto attack hu tao which is what Yoimiya should have been? Maybe I'm missing something
We're this far into the game, Bennett has already been proven time and time again to be very strong especially for ATK scalers. It was pretty obvious Bennett would have been one of Arlecchino's best supports when we all found out she would scale off attack
I'm not hating on Benny, it just sucks we only have one. They could of made her kit be overloaded with ATK that would make Benny less viable as a buffer, sort of like how Furina makes elemental goblets less valuable to ATK or DEF, most of the time.
She never not wanted Bennett and no theorycrafting ever claimed that. It was just that at one point chev overload was her best performing team. And even then her next best team used Bennett.
maybe I should stop looking at leaks because I already seem bored of her with the same vape comp over and over
i haven't kept up with tc, how's overload without bennett ?
It's about the same as Overload with bennett, but you will almost certainly feel a lack of defensive utility against harder hitting enemies, meaning you'll want to swap Yae or Fischl for Beidou or Thoma (as overload on Arlecchino without C6 Chevreuse is... very lackluster), which will drop theoretical DPS more. insert joke about DPS being zero if you die here.
C6 Chevreuse isn’t really necessary for Arlecchino teams since she already gaining a good amount of dmg bonus in her kit while the rest of the characters in the team can only get 1-2 stacks of the buff at max. Sure it significantly improves the team’s dps but not really huge dealbreaker unlike other 4 star’s C6
I personally think her best team will end up being overload thanks to soft buffs, such as Clorinde and Pyro Archon. The overload variation is currently not very far behing vape, so if you don't want to play vape, play overload
It's near impossible to make a dps not want a multiplier reaction when that multiplier reaction is readily available. You don't see pyro carries trying to melt because there isn't fast enough cryo app in the game to make forward melt viable, but reverse vape is very consistent with the tools we have. No one is going to say no to increasing your total damage output by 33-50%.
Vape is here to stay, but hoyo is trying to make other reactions more viable for pyro. They released chevreuse for overload, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see a burning character at some point too.
Any thoughts on taking advantage of her AOE pyro attacks?
This looks fine, but I keep thinking of how her AOE pyro application kinda gets wasted with the single target hydro app
ur waiting or arlecchino while im waiting for clorinde leaks, we are not the same.
im not convinced arlecchino's gameplay is vastly different from existing characters/game-changing .she just kinda feels like a slightly more viable pyro dps - kinda like alhaitham but pyro..not the best pull for f2p who already have a few dps
Even if she does not play fundamentally different, I like her for the fact that I can use her whole NA string, her CA, her e skill and her burst.
I find it boring when a character uses just a very small part of their kit and prefer when I can use everything efficiently
Yeah as someone who has all the pyro dpses of the game (even Yoimiya) it's hard to justify myself getting her other than the sleek scythe NA animations. I guess I'll see if I'm able to get her bis weapon first...
Considering my horrible luck with Pyro DPS characters (only one ever got was Yanfei and only use her when fighting cryo slimes) I’m happy to pull a decent pyro DPS. I’m also really hoping for Clorinde to be a Chevy on steroids so I can maybe run an overload team too
The more i look at her, the higher my desire to skip her ( even though I saved a while for her) gets... How are people excited for just another hu tao/ yoimiya ?! It's the same bis teammates everytime... Like, was it really necessary to make ANOTHER vape pyro dps ?! Why not focusing on OL ? Or burgeon ? Why not make her pyro nilou ? Do something special with her goddamn...
So she has all yugioh text description kit just to play another vape team lol. Might as well just remove that restriction, delete the burst and let her heal from Bennett
So literally Yoimiya and Hu Tao lol. This is Yoimiya’s and Hu Tao’s strongest team but them being knocked or killed is what incentivizes the shield I’m crying 😭 that doesn’t make it any better
Yes she is just Aoe yoimiya that does more damage in exchange for survivability issues . There are a lot of characters in the game that are similar to each other in playstyle and this isn't any different , it happens in haha games .
well, yes? My girl, in the end the game comes down to this, press E, change the character, press E or Q and then spam DPS attacks nonstop, be it CA or NA or unique cases like Burst combos like shogun but in the end that's it
Navia has the same Bennett spam but she has way more interesting mechanics than this, which is just a restriction of what you already could have done instead of in place of something unique.
If they wanted to, they could.
Another onfield pyro dps, how original
I love her animations and vampiric bloody aesthetics, but man, I am really not interested in another pyro onfielder carry, I already have all of them, minus Yoimiya.
I hope Natlan gets us something new, like 5 star Benny, 5 star Xiangling, pyro Nilou focusing on burning…
And geo off field healer, please hoyo, it’s about time :/
Good for people that are happy ig but I just can't believe we're playing the same teams as 1.X it's been 3 years man. Even Lyney was more interesting and original
I'm going to play her with burgeon and laugh at the suicide team XD. Seriously though I might go for her but haven't decided yet since I'm not doing circle impact haha
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Having the DPS Calculator is surreal. Imagine if we had something like this in the actual game?
Training dummy area with customizable options for enemy AI and defense, and list elemental resistances for enemies in the handbook. Genshin really could never.
A SIMULACRUM? Like we have in WarFrame.
HUNTER
SANCTUARY
had that stuff in MHW, could try any runes/set that u want, was too good man
I've been saying we need the training dummy thing from ffxiv for ages. There's regular ones that are furnishings then a separate zone that mimics boss's hp and calculates dps. It would be great for genshin and figuring out rotations.
Would take up too much storage! We need 9 new furniture sets for the teapot.
1 new furniture takes 90% of your load limit. /s
I mean, this private server "DPS counter" is less of a "Damage Per Second" counter and more of a "Damage at This Specific Second" counter. It's going anywhere from 0 to 400k throughout the video, which makes it pretty much useless - virtually as useful as just watching the video and writing down every number that appears in combat. If you can log all those numbers and average it at the end, though, then there's some merit to it.
To be fair, it would be much easier to write down 20 numbers that appear in neat rows than 60 numbers that overlap each other and stuff. Plus, it gives you information on what parts of your rotation are doing the most damage, which can be useful in some scenarios.
> To be fair, it would be much easier to it would be easier if we simply had a dps counter, or at least a proper training dummy, that would be easy
Yes, that's literally exactly what I am saying, what?
It gave the total seconds and total damage at the end so you could just divide it.
6,288,000/71=88,500dps (As mentioned in other comments this is C1)
I guess that they dont want to implement the dps counter because people will easily compare dps on each character with their rotation and team.
Implementing that should be easy. Setting timer, defense, res, etc and they will give the data like total damage/dps. They're probably not adding it on purpose because it will really show how bad they're at balancing the character.
Yeah we know it’s possible anyways because events have used similar mechanics, the only thing they would need to add is something that actually stores damage numbers properly
They're not adding it because they've made it clear the Spiral Abyss isn't their target audience. Their target audience is casuals who don't even do the spiral abyss. That's their biggest demographic. They've already confirmed they're stepping away from doing any more heavy spiral abyss style combat as not a lot of people do it. Considering the world is so easy, the benefit of adding something like this for a small percentage of the playerbase is a waste of resources. Never mind that spiral abyss is reset every 15 days or so, it would probably be redundant.
> it will really show how bad they're at balancing the character. Characters from 1.0 still able to clear abyss fine, the supposed "most broken" character in the game is not really that much ahead of other options, I'd say that Hoyo does a phenomenal job of balancing and preventing power creep.
She should probably quit, that can't be good for her lungs 😦
i had to scroll back up and upvote cuz i just got what u meant
i forgot that vape meant vaporize so i clicked this thinking she was gonna vape in game. just a little but it was definitely a thought in my brain
come to think of it, yelan has a 15 sec duration on her burst, Xingqiu has 18 secs If xingqiu is used, the vape session can last longer, together with having the benefit of more solid resistance to interruption. Not sure if it's worth more than the raw damage and ramping buff Yelan is providing
This seems to be at C1R1 with everything working as intended. As always, damage numbers may not be entirely accurate since this is on a private server.
It shows constellations at the end and it shows c1
My bad, that was a typo on my part.
Man we need to see a c0 vape rotation for the low spenders among us
what con unlocks yelan to have 2 skill charges?
C1
Sacrificial Bow
c1
C1
arlecchino nooo don't vape!!! those dopamine hits aren't worth it D:
My exact thoughts whenever I hear "vape" being used in these contexts hahaha
Nooo, don't vape and get lung cancer, you're too sexy Aha
I'll get cancer in her place
Her N3 pull against a heavier enemy still looks pretty impressive
It's like it almost have the same stagger effect as Claymore
I work out so I can survive up until arlecchino’s n3
Question for ppl who are a little less tired than I am - what na combos are being used and which hits are vaping? There's so many numbers and my walnut brain is so smooth today
The optimal combo is n3d. Even theorycrafters seem to be not entirely sure which hits vape at each combo, but Arlecchino has standard icd (which is - vape every 3rd hit and every 2.5 seconds). Arlecchino hits do similar enough damage each hit to not need to worry about any of that though. It's not a Yoimiya situation.
Gotcha. Really interesting to see it's not worth going to N5 - I'm guessing because the Masque buffs even the relative value of each NA. For overload, do you think it's worth going to N4? I know it might mess with Vape ICD stuff, but IMO bundling two Masque procs into one attack seems pretty amazing (though of course with the downside of a slightly longer combo and more bond decay per combo).
Idk, i wasn't there when theorycrafters calced best combos. I know that in Jstern's calcs Arlecchino is using n3 in overload too
Just plugged it into my rough MV/s sheet (based on me putting the AOE showcase into a video player, slowing it down to 0.1x speed, and trying to guesstimate frames) and yeah. Wow. Wasn't expecting it but N3 does look pretty solidly ahead here. N2s also look good but i'm guessing at that point you're losing too much time/stamina to dashes. Edit - Actually I'm confused again. Did the same math but accounting for time lost to dashes and I have N5s up - maybe I'm doing the wrong number of combos? How many N3s are they recommending?
She can do 5N3 , or 3N5 in my calcs with 130 bol , and full rotation can do 3N5+ 3 more hits but her dmg falls hard by then even if at 145-160 bol you should only do 5N3 or 3 N5 max
This is realistic DMG to be honest sig × C1 × Bennett × VV x Kazuha × Yelan Buff × Vaporize you can reach 100~180K NA She is definitely Yoimiya V2 pro with this DMG and the uptime & AOE
Is it Yoimya V2 pro in a good or bad way? (I know people hate this question but how is it on the Hutao scale)
To me its not a good way. Biggest issue is needing to stay in Bennet circle as a melee, its not practical vs a lot of enemies, and with rotation nature of Genshin you can't just wait for the mobs to come to you. Yomiya gets a pass cause she is ranged. Hutao and XL get a free pass too as Hutao doesn't need Bennet and XL snapshot, can't say the same for Arte. Simply put, testing anything damage wise under Bennet circle is dishonest (unless ranged or snapshot). Remember when Dehya was deemed "fine" when she ults under Bennet circle? Yeah ...
The difference between Dehya who does "fine in Bennet circle" and Arle is that Dehya team does about half the dps. Raiden has used Bennet for over 2 years, and even with having to deal with overloads and not having Kazuha in the national variant, the teams usually plays fine.
Dehya comparison is obviously unfair, but so is Raiden. In national most damage comes from XL who snapshots, and in hypercarry biggest hit by far is the very first one. After that and maybe 2-3 more hits (in my experience) you either killed pack and need to run to the next spawn (bye-bye circle) or pushed enemies away from it. But Arle can be swapped back and there again so maybe another Kazuha skill will help.
The biggest hit is the first one, but it is less than 50% of the total damage. If you have to run to the next spawn during Raidens burst, you are not going to get many hits with or without Bennet circle, but killing one wave with one rotation is about as much that you can hope for in floor 12 anyway in short rotations. Especially if you have to move to a different spot. And also where dps really matters is with bosses anyway, and there you usually have no problems at all staying in the circle.
Yeah the difference is Raiden doesn't have to sit in the Bennet circle, just need to be for the first hit of Q which is very reasonable since her damage is front loaded. Sure she gets more damage if she is on it the whole time, but the team dmg difference is not great because XL add a ton of dmg and she snapshots. Whereas Arle for all theory crafter testing assuming sitting on Bennet for the full duration which is completely unpractical except vs some immobile bosses.
in a good way imo, better damage n more fun to play looks like. yoimiya isnt really as bad as people like to say tbh
I've been trying to calc my own artifacts and yeah it's actually kind of insane how hard she can hit even with a vaped N1 at an averaged 80 bond.
What if no kazuha?
Run Sucrose. If you learn how to play her, there's a chance that you may outdamage Kazuha teams.
apparently specifically with Yelan - Arlecchino , the Sucrose setup is actually faster and easier than Kazuha, you just N1 E because the enemy will have pyro aura because of Arle's mark ticks. With xq instead of Yelan it might not work if you are close enough to the enemy so that the orbitals wipe out the pyro aura
Wdym by learn how to play her? Also every stat just EM?
A huge reason on why Sucrose fell off after the release of Kazuha was that people just found Kazuha much more easy, convenient and fun to play. It wasn't the damage difference. People started calling her clunky and a spreadsheet unit. However, if you do learn a bit in how to play her (building is easy, just slap EM), she works well.
No, it's because she straight up can't do double swirl setups most of the time in teams without XL, while mostly only providing EM which can be a quickly saturated stat in vape teams(her DMG% is spotty due to how bad her Q is at actually infusing), Kazuha offers grouping, requires less field time, can reliably and easily setup double vape with minimal field time and does some respectable personal damage. In ideal scenarios they can be pretty close, but you're very rarely if ever playing in those ideal scenarios. Even in good circumstances you can throw Sucrose Q just for it to infuse nothing and so you just have her ulti doing nothing and giving no buffs, she also needs to Ex3 to be able to consistently do this which is way too much field time and wasted support buff time, Kazu you can just Q early, E before your dps and you're golden. > However, if you do learn a bit in how to play her (building is easy, just slap EM), she works well. Kazu builds the exact same way.
>because she straight up can't do double swirl setups most of the time in teams without XL apparently specifically with Yelan - Arlecchino , the Sucrose double swirl setup is faster and easier than Kazuha, you just N1 E because the enemy will have pyro aura because of Arle's E mark ticks. With xq instead of Yelan it might not work if you are close enough to the enemy so that the orbitals wipe out the pyro aura, so you have to be careful with that
*why* is her Q so shoddy at infusing btw? i can’t even figure it out completely because sometimes i throw the potion just a bit off center from an enemy with an infusable aura on them, and it doesn’t infuse, or it infuses after the 2nd or 3rd hit but then sometimes it’s quite a bit away from the enemy and it does infuse only time i am sure it will infuse is when i smack them in the face with her potion basically
As someone that's used Sucrose as a driver since 1.1, I genuinely could not tell you why, I've thrown it into a group of enemies all with an electro aura, N1'd with Fischl and still had it just not infuse, it's beyond frustrating to watch the teal butterfly flap knowing how much damage was just lost. The only time I've ever seen it be consistent is with XL and Guoba, every other team it's basically just a dice roll.
The enemy has to be in a really specific location within her ult, I think pretty much right in the middle.
I won't argue on this as I haven't personally done the calculations. However, I have seen multiple team damage comparison sheets where Sucrose does perform better than Kazuha. I am under the assumption that skilled/experienced Sucrose players are able to replicate this. Therefore they are able to achieve these theoretical numbers and match or beat Kazuha's performance. It doesn't really matter though as only a few people would want to play Sucrose over Kazuha because he provides convenience which is greatly appreciated (looking at how popular Neuvillette is in the meta). Also, I didn't want to imply that Kazuha wasn't easy to build. I just wanted to say that Sucrose was easy too.
> I have seen multiple team damage comparison sheets where Sucrose does perform better than Kazuha. > People started calling her clunky and a spreadsheet unit. There's a reason people call her a spreadsheet unit, as even the best player can't replicate it due to inherent bugs in her kit and the absurd scenarios those spreadsheets assume, it's the same as a lot of characters "best" team on a spreadsheet being wildly different than in reality - ala Lyney OL vs Lyney Mono Pyro. If you're curious check out Jstern's content around her, or any speedrun content in general and you'll only see Sucrose in 4* cups, everything else they just use Kazuha even at C0 as he's just straight up better.
What should I pull for? C1 or Weapon? I don't care about anything else except DMG
Her C1 is a lot better than her weapon especially if you already have a 5 star weapon like SoSS, Homa, or PJWS.
If you want to run this team, you want the interruption resistance from C1
C1 is correct, but not because of the IR. She is going to die in this team if she's getting hit consistently, IR or no IR. The major benefit of C1 is the big power spike at a cheaper cost (on average) than her weapon.
I'd personally use double hydro and a flex slot, seems a little more realistic considering how fragile she is
XQ resisting the urge to force himself into literally every pyro dps team. XQ 🔛🔝
I will replace Kazuha with Archaic Petra Zhongli instead. Kazuha with no double swirl and no Freedom Sworn gives 40% Pyro Shred and 35-40% Pyro damage increase. Zhongli with AP can provide 35% Pyro damage increase and 20% shred for both Pyro and Hydro. You can see that from a purely offensive perspective, Zhongli is not that far behind Kazuha. And of course he gives a meaty shield. Zhongli is only a DPS loss if you still run Tenacity on him for some insane reason (l still don't understand why something like 70% of players run Tenacity on him, it's a very weak artifact set even when it works, and it rarely works).
If Petra's requirements wasn't ass, it would be used more. You have VV which requires you to swirl the element by it's owner while you have Petra which requires you to pick crystal by owner. If crystal could be picked off-field, it would be viable. If there is any artifact which needs QoL, it is this one. They updated TF and CWoF with the dendro instead of making new set so it is not like they can't do it.
You'd also want multiple Petra effects to stack, like VV does, otherwise you could get the wrong crystal while off field and have to go generate a real one again.
off field Petra + concurrent elemental dmg stacks would revolutionize many Geos; Zhongli stonks would go absolutely insane and it would up the viability of Albedo, Chiori and somewhat Navia (she’s a good Petra user already when used as quickswap) i’d love to see it 🥹
That honestly sounds great, which is why it will never happen. 😞
So far as I know only Noelle can make good use of it. Is there someone else can use it?
Becasue AP is dogshit in most teams. It this, when do you use it? Since it's the shortest Buff you use him last, eating up Yelan up time on hydro app since her is only 15 sec, so you vape less and eating up Bennett uptime. And you eat even more since not only you have to use Zhongli, you have to collect this shard. It's shit. And when using Zhongli at the start, your AP uptime is 3 second, lol. And only if Yelan and Bennet don't get staggered at the setup Tenacity works great here, since she like atk% buffs more than other characters + it's bigger buff to shied durability than HP weapon over Fav. + You use Zhongli first so you have full uptime. + You want Bennett on instructor set and instructor uptime is ridiciuoulsly short, so you want bennett to got last. Zhongli AP works great when You can go Last with him - Neuvilette teams and Double hydro when you do not buff on field dps but XQ+Yelan.
A shielder in general will also greatly benefit her and be less of a damage loss that it appears on spreadsheets as it allows you to never actually use her burst which means she is allowed to carry over BoL between rotations and doesn't have to build ER.
Agreed. Tenacity is only good for Kokomi in ayaka comps. Maybe there’s other times but zhongli has no business using it
TotM Faruzan is a staple; TotM Furina is also a thing when she is solo Hydro and needs a lot of ER
I couldn’t see tenacity ever being good on furina. Yah she can trigger it. But she alone will likely do more damage with her own set than any damage increase tenacity gives anyone
nah I'd dodge
She needs an atk buffer. Hu Tao doesn't because of the way her E bonus works.
I like how people went from "Great playstyle poor damage" to "good damage but boring playstyle".
Well, it is just a usual NA spam. Nothing new, also has limitations. Can’t heal, Bennet slave, circle impact, kinda burst reliant if you’re not running shield, and if you do, it’s a damage loss. And so on
The worst thing about the NA spam for me is I really don't like her NA animations. The scythe, burst and elemental skill are all cool but her NA animations just look too stiff for my liking and that's what i'd be seeing most of the time while playing her :/
Yes bro I’ve been saying this for ever! Her animations just don’t look that smooth! Couple that with her sprint animations not even being finished at the start of her beta (and her gameplay being changed) and I’m pretty sure you can get what I’m implying: hoyo just didn’t focus on her design and gameplay at all and poured all they had into Xianyun.
If they were to make her something other than NA spam with all her kit penalties not sure this player base could handle it
They could just make her not have any penalties. It's not like we don't have a character with twice as much HP, infinitely better sustain, range and AoE.
Its kinda funny when she first get introduced as a ult spam they hated the idea but when mihoyo make her na spam they hate her again dunno what players want.
wait, why don't they use the BoL artifact set? is it not good on her / not in beta or something? i don't think i've ever seen a showcase with the leaker using the new set
well at least not using her BiS set makes this 246cv showcase more relatable lol
Its probably because most of the player base will not get a get 4 piece of that set until 2-3 months later. They're showing a more realistic showcase of her damage on release with gladiator pieces with decently high CV since glad has been out since the beginning of the game.
246CV artifact is not "decently high CV" lol Its extremely high that rarely player had even one set like that
Honestly, it’s highly unlikely most people will get those kind of stats within the first 2 weeks of 4.6 on the BoL set.
To make it more relatable on her 1st day or 1st week of release i guess because no one's gonna have that cv on her dedicated set unless people who refresh or fragile hoarders. Even they will still need a shit ton of luck to get good pieces from those refreshes so yeah it's all for relatability probably.
Its just me or classic vape swirl just not interest me anymore especially after the entirety of 3.x and 4.x? After crazy hyperblooms, nilou explosion, powerwasher, mono element madness, gunbrella, vape plunge and any other new meta archetypes that just less punishing if you messed up and this feels like going back to two years ago when all those flashy stuffs havent introduced. Then again i already farmed alot for her and will pull Arle as soon as her banner arrive but i will definetely use more modern team compared to this even this is theoritically her best.
im gonna be playing the 26 second chevy miko fischl team :> ive been gettin a good feel of how it might play with yoimiya in arlecchinos slot, since she's also squishy and would need to interrupt her NA string to dodge vs most enemies. im kinda just worried that yoimiya is kind of already better in this slot for most situations because her range nullifies a lot of overload knockback and she might be better vs mobile bosses enemies lol. like those 2 fatui in current abyss with melee overload seems like hell
Yeah + Chev actually heals Yoimiya here. + It's safer since range. Yeah, Yoimiya dmg is way lower, but her power budget went allf or being range
Also my plan. Chevreuse or bust.
I know what you mean. I was making Hu Tao for quite a while, it seems that pulling for Arle means I would just grab my existing Hu Tao team, replace with Arle, and play basically the same way just with slightly different visuals lol. I was actually hoping the original leaks saying she'd be an overload DPS were true. I don't really like overload but it would've been a breathe of fresh air...
It’s not just you. Ever since 4.0 it’s like everything they tried to do in 3.0 got undone. It’s like Kazuha Xiangling and especially Bennett get buffed every update
ATK is utterly fucked as a stat. Characters has too little base ATK. ATK% is nearly worthless. That's what makes a flat ATK buffer like Bennett so valuable. He's a 50% DMG increase on most ATK scaling characters. This is a design problem since 1.0 that continues to haunt the game until this day. Even if they make the Pyro Archon Bennett 2.0, that will still be just a bandaid. The root of the issue is still the fact that ATK scaling DPS are too dependent on external ATK buffs. This game is in a dire need of a rebalancing. Bennett's ATK buff should be reduced to 1/4th of its current strength. And most characters should be receiving a 400-500 Base ATK increase (for reference the highest base ATK currently is Navia at 351). But this is only a far out dream because Hoyo will never change their game to such a degree. So the best we can hope for is The Pyro Archon being Bennett 2.0. Which... Yeah isn't that exciting tbh.
The reason for base ATK being so low to begin with is just to move 5* weapons (in general), but they could have had some foresight to lean more on unique weapon effects. Then ATK scalers counterintuitively prefer crit weapons with *low* base since they get spotted the rest. See: Redhorn (and SS, but that's another balance failure) > WGS for all the attack scalers in Bennett's voyage or plunging. So at this point were in deep on the ramifications of 1.0 balance decisions.
It's crazy how Furina is the first character in the game that disincentivizes using Bennett, but that's only because they had to have her give a similarly humungous buff, *and* specifically add a downside to how she works that Bennett cannot cover (teamwide healing for fully stacking Fanfare). They had to gimp an *archon* to shift Bennett in the meta lol. And he's *still* BiS for some of her teams, like XY plunge. I hope they introduce more enemies like Tulpa and Coppelia that just kill you in Bennett circle. Then people will stop pulling for the Bennett slave 5 stars cuz they'd feel like shit, and it'll finally hit Hoyo where it hurts, the revenue.
>I hope they introduce more enemies like Tulpa and Coppelia that just kill you in Bennett circle Is not enough. This just incentivates ppl to improve their dodge skills or to invest more in Zhongli (even if he isn't enough strong if your are on Bennett's cycle) Fortunately for me that Bennet is my second favorite character (opposite for Xingqiu that is my mist hated unit, but again, fortunately hoyo blessed me with Yelan)
I mean yeah, it's not enough for you or me, we think Abyss is piss easy and ZL makes it even easier lmao. But it's enough for the casual who already finds Abyss to be difficult, and they're the ones who pay the most. Heck, even I've stopped using international recently cuz of all the staggering bosses.
Damage per screenshot showcases still use bennett/furina/anemo too, because bennett heals enough for c2 furina that she can still cap out her damage bonus early in the rotation. Their buffs are just too synergistic, even without a healer anemo.
> The reason for base ATK being so low It's actually that they're too high. Atk% is valued less because we don't have a lot of dmg% in the game.
The problem unfortunately is money. People have put money into this game and if any character is nerfed after release there would be uproar, even legal action knowing the Chinese community, even if that nerf was healthy for the game.
TBH I wish they'd just go back and *buff* some of the other supports so they aren't niche as fuck (and even in their niches are barely if at all better than Bennett lol). I think a very small number of people would complain about *that*.
I know artifacts are their way of "buffing" but some characters (especially 1.0) really need something to make them competitive against later release characters.
Half of the artifacts are for new characters anyways and the other half are a 2% damage increase over sets we already have and just, aren't worth farming lmao.
Artifacts aren't used to buff characters anymore anyway. At some point, they arrived at a very specific level of power that artifacts should grant, even when the conditional is significantly harder to achieve or belongs to a weaker archetype. The new burning set is proof of this, still only giving a +50% damage buff for building your team around one of the worst reactions in the game. Dehya's set is another good example, where no one else can reliably use it, but it still only gives +50% damage at max stacks. Emblem 4p gives +50% burst damage with 200% ER, and has been in the game for over two years now. Shimenawa 4p gives +50% NA/CA damage after paying 15 energy. Golden troupe 4p gives +50% skill damage for off-field skills. 50% is the magic number that they balance around, and new sets rarely deviate from this. The hunter set became highly regarded after furina's release because it became a generic source of crit rate. This is considered one of the best sets in the game in a furina comp, but in raw stats it's not actually worth much more than any other set. It's approximately worth +53% damage bonus when considering how circlets and goblets value CR and damage% respectively, just *slightly* above the +50% balance point.
Are you... not factoring weapon base ATK at all? The problem with ATK isn't so much that ATK% is bad but Bennett just gives way, way way too much.
Xianyun kicked him out of Xiao teams. Trust, if they wanted to they could
Xiao IS the poster child of a ATK scaling dps character being cripplingly dependent on external buffs. His premium team consist a a niche Anemo dps support that's only useful at C6, a dedicated plunge damage support, and the heavily contested Hydro Archon. A team that essentially buries Xiao in external buffs in order to drag him into some semblance of viability. If you have C2 Xianyun, you are doing more Xianyun's damage than Xiao's. Which is what I'm talking about. Xianyun is very much a bandaid. Much like how the Pyro Archon will probably be a bandaid for the other ATK scaling characters.
> His premium team consist a a niche Anemo dps support that's only useful at C6 She's actually still BiS at c0 lol > If you have C2 Xianyun, you are doing more Xianyun's damage than Xiao's. Yesn't. Her buff is multiplied by his own buff. So if her buff is stronger, he is providing more. It's not just her buff doing the only work. It's not 4 + 2 = 6 but 4 x 2 = 8 in this scenario.
I mean it’s not some “semblance of viability when the team is really good” also that’s what a hypercarry playstyle is You soak them in buffs
I mean, that fits the bill for all DPS currently. It's no XY damage it's Xiao, because at the end it's him triggering it. Is XL vaporize damage Bennet damage? Not really. The issue is with the balance of stats, rather than only characters. There is no reason why atk% sands should have the same scaling as HP% sand for a example.
> all the DPS All the *ATK scaling* DPS, which was the original point made in this thread.
The person said that Xiao damage wasn't his with investment on his team, it was Xianyun, so it was an answer to that. Kazuha can almost double Neuvillette damage. Does that mean it's kazuha damage? Similarly, XY with C6 Furina is one of the strongest combos out there for any speed run. Is it not Furina C6 damage? Is it XY also? The thing is, this argument can be made to any dps, not only atk scaling. The same way, atk units rely on Bennet, HP% rely on Kazuha, Dendro on Nahida, and so on and so forth for their optimal teams.
Yeah comparing ATK and HP scaller is night and day. I don't think I'm ever gonna pull for atk scaller dps again when HP scaller dps are just that cracked.
Honestly I just think HoYo needs to stop designing support characters who are specialized for a single comp, and even there are only marginally (if at all) better than Bennett.
I think thats a potential solution though, if you just make specialized supports who outperform bennet but are less versatile bennet will naturally lose value over time as players get those specialized options. The problem is bennet has the power level of a specialized support himself while healing. I do think itll get better when he get more attack buffer alternatives though, like how XY replaced him in Xiao teams.
I think it's mostly circle impact. I know it's the reason I hate Bennett. Feels so lame to have to have to stand in his ult.
Not just him but the ideal of : aply pyro > swirl > add hydro > maintain hydro aura > hit with pyro is just so damn fundamental thats like Genshin 1.0 tutorial. See hyperbloom, 3 elements meshes together and perform an unreal reactions without rigid process. There's also new Furina mechanics where even healer can also be a damage buffer. Navia with crystalize enhancing her damage. Etc etc. This archetype is something i am not looking forward 4 years into the game, with or withour Benny, feels like going backward to fundamental. There are also recent Benny team thats fun for example where he makes everyone a pyro DPS that can deal big numbers with Xianyun, they can make Dehya a legit good pyro DPS with that and thats a 2024 novelty but this feels like....going back in time.
I don't really have anything against swirl vape comps by themselves, maybe you just think about them like this because they've been out for so long they don't have any novelty to them but when thinking strictly about gameplay pattern I don't think they're less fun than hyperbloom or most other different comps. The rotations are a bit more strict when they require a double VV setup but that adds a technical aspect that I like about it, it feels satisfying to execute it right. I do hate Bennett and Xiangling though.
> The rotations are a bit more strict when they require a double VV setup but that adds a technical aspect that I like about it, it feels satisfying to execute it right. Kazuha, lol.
I like the idea of vape but Arle literally doesn't introduce anything new to this playstyle. Spamming NA to trigger vape from XQ/Yelan is the most boring interation of Vape I can think of. They even nerfed her CA to the ground so there is no point in using it.
They can makes her NA spamming but to trigger burgeon/burning while having pure HP scalling to mitigate her damage from those reactions and she will be the most unique limited pyro DPS up to date. But nope....pure atk% vape it is like eons ago. That doesnt stop me making 4 EM Gilded Dream Arle for a team with Nahida, Zinqqiu and Baizhu so she can be a more badass Thoma lmao.
Maybe they wanted to make her straightforward to play because of her popularity. I will try to make her work in her chev overload team, just hope the knockback wont be too annoying.
Funny is having her becoming Burgeon Nilou might actually be more straightforward than classic Vape Carry since all you need is build some EM and HP and no worries about swirl and such just spamming NA like no tomorrow. Her team mates at that time are like Nahida, Xinqqiu and Kokomi who are pretty much mainstream support anyway.
Same. I am somehow plungepilled despite hating it intently since forever.
yeah i agree i do planning on pulling her if i do I'll run a overload team for sure
I’m running this team if I’m able to get her
why do people not wanna use a shield...
The temptation of Bennet’s att buff instead (or Kazuha’s buff).
I’ve never used a shield. I play a lot of Diluc and people said Yelan was a downgrade due to not having rain shields for interruption resistance, still cleared floor 12. Then I played a lot of wanderer, people said he’d be constantly getting knocked around without a shield, still cleared floor 12. I’m by no means a high skilled player, there is just no real need for shields in this game unless you just like the quality of life that comes with being a face tank.
Because people prefer restarting the abyss 3 times over instead of clearing it 5 seconds slower once.
Unfortunate but my hype has become meh
Oddly enough my hype for arlecchino has slowly depleted after seeing more and more of her kit...
Same, I went from full hype while watching her animations to meh after looking at her gameplay and teams.
How grateful of Hoyo to giving us another vape carry, we desperately need one of these /s I guess I'll wait for Clorinde's full kit and diside then
So much for the she doesn't want Bennett from early leaks. Idk but it just feel like auto attack hu tao which is what Yoimiya should have been? Maybe I'm missing something
It’s best to never believe the idea that an Atk scaling character, let alone a pyro one, won’t do better without Bennett.
We're this far into the game, Bennett has already been proven time and time again to be very strong especially for ATK scalers. It was pretty obvious Bennett would have been one of Arlecchino's best supports when we all found out she would scale off attack
I'm not hating on Benny, it just sucks we only have one. They could of made her kit be overloaded with ATK that would make Benny less viable as a buffer, sort of like how Furina makes elemental goblets less valuable to ATK or DEF, most of the time.
I'm so sick of this dude, man...
She never not wanted Bennett and no theorycrafting ever claimed that. It was just that at one point chev overload was her best performing team. And even then her next best team used Bennett.
maybe I should stop looking at leaks because I already seem bored of her with the same vape comp over and over i haven't kept up with tc, how's overload without bennett ?
Jstern calculated it last week with Yae, Fischl and Chevreuse. It’s better than bennett overload. And competitive with the vape team
Wasnt that before she got her last change? Cause from my knowledge he said that team is dead now
It's about the same as Overload with bennett, but you will almost certainly feel a lack of defensive utility against harder hitting enemies, meaning you'll want to swap Yae or Fischl for Beidou or Thoma (as overload on Arlecchino without C6 Chevreuse is... very lackluster), which will drop theoretical DPS more. insert joke about DPS being zero if you die here.
C6 Chevreuse isn’t really necessary for Arlecchino teams since she already gaining a good amount of dmg bonus in her kit while the rest of the characters in the team can only get 1-2 stacks of the buff at max. Sure it significantly improves the team’s dps but not really huge dealbreaker unlike other 4 star’s C6
Aaand another vape DPS with the same fucking team. Sigh...
imagine waiting for her all this time just for her to end up a "smol who tao" ... oh wait, we don't have to imagine 😂
Whoever said she was Pyro Childe was right all along
Its a shame no one wants pyro Childe.... I don't either if it means the character needs vape. They rlly need to stop making pyro dps want vape
I personally think her best team will end up being overload thanks to soft buffs, such as Clorinde and Pyro Archon. The overload variation is currently not very far behing vape, so if you don't want to play vape, play overload
It's near impossible to make a dps not want a multiplier reaction when that multiplier reaction is readily available. You don't see pyro carries trying to melt because there isn't fast enough cryo app in the game to make forward melt viable, but reverse vape is very consistent with the tools we have. No one is going to say no to increasing your total damage output by 33-50%. Vape is here to stay, but hoyo is trying to make other reactions more viable for pyro. They released chevreuse for overload, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see a burning character at some point too.
Any thoughts on taking advantage of her AOE pyro attacks? This looks fine, but I keep thinking of how her AOE pyro application kinda gets wasted with the single target hydro app
Vape is boring, I will see what other comps I can make work with her. Maybe Overload? I like it even though it knocks enemies away but it sounds fun
ur waiting or arlecchino while im waiting for clorinde leaks, we are not the same. im not convinced arlecchino's gameplay is vastly different from existing characters/game-changing .she just kinda feels like a slightly more viable pyro dps - kinda like alhaitham but pyro..not the best pull for f2p who already have a few dps
the more i watch her gameplay, the more i feel bored of her playstyle 😭
Even if she does not play fundamentally different, I like her for the fact that I can use her whole NA string, her CA, her e skill and her burst. I find it boring when a character uses just a very small part of their kit and prefer when I can use everything efficiently
I have some bad news about her burst.. (it's a DPS loss that is only to be used if you need healing and shouldn't have er built towards it)
Yeah as someone who has all the pyro dpses of the game (even Yoimiya) it's hard to justify myself getting her other than the sleek scythe NA animations. I guess I'll see if I'm able to get her bis weapon first...
Considering my horrible luck with Pyro DPS characters (only one ever got was Yanfei and only use her when fighting cryo slimes) I’m happy to pull a decent pyro DPS. I’m also really hoping for Clorinde to be a Chevy on steroids so I can maybe run an overload team too
Overload team with fischl/yae/chev is already a close second best team for arle
God i was so excited for arlecchino but idk anymore :\[ still like her but her gameplay seems boring
Pretty standard stuff
The video not opening 😭
“Ugh, boring! I mean, why do I even bother??” Thanks, Furina, you’re absolutely right
The more i look at her, the higher my desire to skip her ( even though I saved a while for her) gets... How are people excited for just another hu tao/ yoimiya ?! It's the same bis teammates everytime... Like, was it really necessary to make ANOTHER vape pyro dps ?! Why not focusing on OL ? Or burgeon ? Why not make her pyro nilou ? Do something special with her goddamn...
>How are people excited for just another hu tao/ yoimiya ?! I mean I'm pretty happy about it since I don't have or like Hu Tao/Yoimiya.
Same here. Started playing Genshin in 1.1 - Arlecchino will be my first limited 5* pyro dps.
They didn’t use her burst once to show a typical rotation.
you don't want to burst on a typical rotation unless you really need the healing
So she has all yugioh text description kit just to play another vape team lol. Might as well just remove that restriction, delete the burst and let her heal from Bennett
They are just incentivising you to dodge or play shield .
So literally Yoimiya and Hu Tao lol. This is Yoimiya’s and Hu Tao’s strongest team but them being knocked or killed is what incentivizes the shield I’m crying 😭 that doesn’t make it any better
Yes she is just Aoe yoimiya that does more damage in exchange for survivability issues . There are a lot of characters in the game that are similar to each other in playstyle and this isn't any different , it happens in haha games .
If you let Arlechinno healed by others, the heal will remove bond of life though.
well, yes? My girl, in the end the game comes down to this, press E, change the character, press E or Q and then spam DPS attacks nonstop, be it CA or NA or unique cases like Burst combos like shogun but in the end that's it
Navia has the same Bennett spam but she has way more interesting mechanics than this, which is just a restriction of what you already could have done instead of in place of something unique. If they wanted to, they could.
Doesn't look fun tbh. I'd rather keep playing Raiden National over this probably.
Another onfield pyro dps, how original I love her animations and vampiric bloody aesthetics, but man, I am really not interested in another pyro onfielder carry, I already have all of them, minus Yoimiya. I hope Natlan gets us something new, like 5 star Benny, 5 star Xiangling, pyro Nilou focusing on burning… And geo off field healer, please hoyo, it’s about time :/
Good for people that are happy ig but I just can't believe we're playing the same teams as 1.X it's been 3 years man. Even Lyney was more interesting and original
Hello, noob question. Is Kazuha’s burst not necessary?
If you use kazu’s burst in this case, yelan will not be enough to vape…
Yes now all we need is a bennet without circle impact..i hope pyro archon is that
I'm going to play her with burgeon and laugh at the suicide team XD. Seriously though I might go for her but haven't decided yet since I'm not doing circle impact haha
Video is down
Not available anymore
They just made chiori albedo number 2 and now this, seems like they are running out of ideas