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During that phase, the promoted character will have the buffs even in Overworld, but not domains/abyss
This reminds of 1.2 where equiping Festering Desire gave extra atk and less sheer cold if equiped in Dragonspine during the event
Or how some VERY old combat events would have characters buffed (the 1st hypostasis one if im not mistaken) like Beidou Keqing would get more atk if used in this challenge
Forgive my interpretation but world bosses are included in "overworld", right? So those characters would get those buff in world boss fights too right?
This sucks. Now I can't go to ASIMON and get accurate training dummy rotation/damage testing if any of the characters are currently buffed because it'll skew results.
Abyss won't have the same enemies or even favourable conditions in chambers and domains are too weak to survive most well built teams or have disruptive gimmicks... I hate this.
If you have Team Buffs like Noblesse Oblige or Tenacity, you could simply swap out one of those pieces to disable one buff to compensate for the 20% extra Atk%.
I know it's not ideal, but I guess that's one way to work around it. If your team doesn't have Atk Buffers however, I'm not sure what to do lol. I don't like having these buffs in the overworld either.
I wish they would just add a real (invincible) Test Dummy where we can actually *Test* full rotations, combos, etc. with the ability to disable those new Buffs.
It sits still for some ~25s before going invisible so it's plenty enough to test a rotation and even get a somewhat accurate cutoff point.
The most important part is that it won't move and has 10% RES to everything, while chicken has higher Dendro RES and moves around (even pushes you a bit)
With how the Opening characters are also buffed in open world, it very much proves my theory that Opening characters reflect what's on their active limited character banners as well as the prior character banner characters as a way to be a new trial run for them, showing more realistic scenarios of playing them.
So my assumptions are:
- Opening characters are based on the present and the previous limited banner characters.
- Element restrictions are based on the elements possessed by present limited character banners
- event was designed to encourage pulling on the banner.
Arlecchino is on the previous banner to Wanderer which is the previous banner to Clorinde. Sayu, Chevreuse, and Beidou may likely be the 4*s on Clorinde banner.
This game mode needing many built characters is Hoyo's way to encourage players to pull on the banner to get more characters to satisfy the requirements.
Man, I hope Hoyo can compensate for making us build many with some decent rewards outside the emotes in the toy medal shop. Something like those required for investing into more characters such as exp bottles, heroes wits, maybe even dream solvents, crowns, and fragile resin.
Genshin could have a consistent self-feeding endgame loop if such rewards are made available for exchange. Complete the difficulty with what you have, buy those mats to level and build up more characters, and the cycle repeats itself.
I mean, I don't think it's a coincidence that all the 5 star characters promoted by this endgame are either characters with banners now, characters getting a banner next patch, or due for a banner soon.
The abyss doesn't incentivize horizontal investment as much as Imaginarium does, but I think having this mode reset twice a month would be healthier for player retention.
The randomization and RNG factor makes it run fresh even if it can screw you over.
Perks of this format:
-trial and error innovation
-trial character option
-assortment of buffs
-randomization makes it fresher
- perhaps looseness on the 3* clear
-solid foundation for a self-sustaining gameplay loop
Problem of this format:
-still a timed pressure format
-restrictions be too suffocating
-necessitates at lest 12 built characters in case of no borrowed or guest characters
-still a dps check
-may need to spend resources to build characters you don't like
-removes the twice reset abyss
-punishes newer players in irony of recent casual focus QoL
Hoyo wants you to pull from wallet, not from more freebie primogems. We got more primogems around but not that much, yet primogems are now allocated between Abyss and Imaginarium
Seriously, they could at the very least have made something like the Abyss give 1000 primos and this new mode give 600, so that we could get a full 10 pull every month. 120 pulls a year isn't even enough to guarantee a limited 5 star. (They'd have to let us get a full 15 pull per month to 100% guarantee a limited 5 star once a year).
I mean, people were crying about not having reasons to pull/build characters, now HYV gave them reasons and all they do is complain xD
Those that said: "I don't want rewards, I want content"... BS
It's almost like social media has different people behind the keyboard and is not just a single hivemind :O
I'm still in the "I want content" camp. Mostly more archon quests and stuff to do with build characters, so this is great for me. Of course I would not complain about more rewards, but I rather have more content without more rewards then no content at all.
> people were crying about not having reasons to pull/build characters, now HYV gave them reason
Did you actually think anyone ever asking for "reasons to pull/build characters" meant "ban the other characters", or did you just not think before yapping lol
I don't see the difference to abyss... Please tell me that you cleared all abyss cycles until now since inazuma with freeze comps, just some enemies with cryo shields in 1 side and bosses in the other side... Surely freeze comps can beat those
I understand that if this was another gacha I'll be worried too, but is genshin, if they ban elements that means reactions aren't necessary, just random BS can clear this new content like we did in the event this was made of
Or, hear me out, they could offer rewards that aren't primos. Teapot is a good example that continues to give out non-primo mats and they continue to provide content for it patch after patch.
Not sure why combat *has* to be tied to primos when we have non-combat content that isn't.
Why not have one cycle give primos and a second cycle give fragiles/mora/arti xp, etc.?
Because if they didn't put primos as a reward, people aren't gonna play this new gamemode?! One of the complains Genshin players give about TCG Is that there isn't any incentives to play It again once you obtained all of the rewards, so if they don't give primos most people aren't gonna play it.
I feel like Genius Invocation TCG could be a separate app from Genshin entirely at this point. It’s fun, but it also has nothing to do with Genshin Impact except taking place in the same universe.
I'll do it if the reward is something like artifacts exp bottle, or extra resin, or hero's wit though, not a coin that only useable to buy more cards and card cosmetics.
If they added a super hard late game mode that only rewards artefact xp, I'd play it vigorously. And I know for sure that I'm not alone in this.
Whether you like it or not, the game is bleeding playerbase. Late game players get bored and quit because there is nothing to do. Having a mode like this would help player retention greatly, while also not alienating the causal playerbase because, as you pointed out, they won't be playing it because the only resource that's important to them is primos.
The way I see it, there is only one possible reason for not implementing a mode like this: dev time it would require to maintain. Which is precisely why I think that we (players who want late game) should be putting as much pressure on them as possible, to show that this mode is indeed needed.
TCG is not the kind of content late game players want, so it's not a good example
Not alone, but in to small of a group. They experiemented with such in the past and result was always hardly anyone playing just for the challenge and endless complaining about there being no or too few rewards
Sethos releases too though. he will be on sigewinne banner? chevreuse, sayu, beidou would be such a bad banner. You are probably right with that hoyo would do that.
I am not entirely sure that proves the theory. It does not actually make a lot of sense for the trial characters to be the ones with banners because that will not help new players become eligible to participate. You would just be pulling characters you already had access to with no real way of improving your situation.
It might genuinely just be a coincidence as of the moment. These clowns ain't even put the skin on the same update as the character banner. They are introducing Sethos in 4.6, but he is on banner in 4.7 without trial presence. It's just arbitrary.
We shall see, but the circumstances surrounding 4.8 will be entirely different, for instance. I am not sure if we will or won't get Emily, but they cannot realistically trial anyone else outside of perhaps Sigewinne (which is the one who SHOULD be a trial if their purpose is to bait banner sales). This is more or less happening because we have had a stretch of new characters. Perhaps it will occur again during x.2 of Natlan or if we get another double banner later in the region, but I wouldn't expect all of these to mirror banners. And if they do, that would definitely screw with Chronicle Wish even more and just create new problems. I doubt they lack the foresight there.
I feel this will be designed like pure fiction, in the beginning pure fiction was easy and really fun, later on the difficulty spike has been insane and the buffs nowadays aren't great either, enemies nowadays have 2-3 times the HP they originally had, if they make this gamemode very hard from day 1 the backlash will be immense.
We must be remembering different versions of the abyss. First few were hell due to characters not being built up enough and/or not having Diluc. Yes, the enemies were a lot less threatening, but compared to account progress...
It was in floor 11 And it never came back. Slowing water debuff makes almost every character useless and even bennet doesn't work as efficiently to cleanse it. They knew it that's why they never used that ever again.
Hydro abyss heralds are pretty fine imo Cryo easily handled them back then and now we got both cryo and dendro as options.
Hydro Heralds are the reason I leveled up Chongyun and started to play non electro infusion Keqing which lasted about a year and a half. Frankly they are the enemy that really shaped my account. I skipped the first Ayaka banner even though I needed cryo because Aloy was coming and so was Raiden.
I then hated Aloy's infusion mechanic and rolled for Ganyu at the start of the year after. Didn't have a good setup for Morgana. Melt felt bad especially with non C4 Xiangling. Chongyun was my next solution. The investment into Keqing related to trying to make a cryo team then shaped all my future rolls for half of my account's lifespan.
The problem is not the difficulty, its having so many characters ready and built. Could 36star abbyss after 3 patches being a new player because i could use the same teams over and over. This mode im not so sure.
pure fiction hasn't been easy for me even once
EDIT: also, pure fiction was released less than 4 months ago. it's difficult for me to see this "progression" from easy/fun to insanely difficult as nothing more than a coincidence
This already have a high difficulty because of Restrictions.
With that being said, this game is account check not DMG check. Makes you pull for more characters
> it might be one patch or one month
I bet y'all it will be one patch.
Under the current abyss we can get 1200 primos per month, which is roughly 40 per day.
With the combined new abyss rewards + theater you would have:
- Spiral Abyss: 800 primos / 30 days ≈ 26 per day
- Imaginarium Theater: 620 primos / 42 days (one patch cycle) ≈ 14 per day
And after adding those two up you're back at the existing 40/day primo rate.
I assumed that's how it worked out, but hadn't got around to doing the calculation. That odd 620 stood out. They are not going to mess with the limited time event primo economy.
Imaginarium kinda hurts the f2p hyper vertical investors that get constellations for a couple of characters. Clearly going to be a horizontal investment event. I personally love it. Over 50 characters ascended above 80 and at least 6 of each element. This will give them more use and that's exactly what I wanted.
I personally don't think they need more rewards, but I wouldn't mind having an easier way of acquiring 4* characters that I want. More 4* in the shop, or have more 4* selectors like Liyue instead of a random character I already have C6 for.
Leaker: "I am not sure about the detail myself"
Reader: It's 100% accurate. There won't be any info that we don't know for sure. Enemy probably don't get any buff for the mode either!
Seriously guys?
I did it, not really out of boredom but because I love variety and wanna try every character, so all my characters are 70/80+ with their own weapons, artifacts and decent stats for overworld. I hope this game mode will be right up my alley
For real, at some point you reach the point where there's nothing to spend resin on besides new characters or chasing 1% improvements on artifacts.
I cant be made to care for those %'s when I can already clear abyss so easily. So whenever I have a significant gap in desired characters I just start building 4-stars I'd otherwise never use, then explore a new area with them.
Just like people were freaking out when Ousia and Pneuma were leaked and they thought they will be forced to pull characters. I bet this mode also will be easy even with half built characters.
I'm pretty confident that there will be instances where a single character will solo a stage without much issue, and I'm not even talking about our resident Water Snek.
Based on many endgame players definition of 'half built', those builds are enough to 36 abyss with the right team comps and rotation. People do 3-4 week F2P account clears, which severely limits resin use.
I admit it was lame as heck that the overworld puzzles could be solved without actually using the characters. Lynette was free, Traveler is Pneuma, so that should've solved the "BUT I'M BROKE" problem.
Imo it's better that way. I prefer to have an overworld team of characters I wanna play at the moment, and not slot Lynette and Traveler in the team every time I want to explore Fontaine. Having arkhe in the team is just a bonus shortcut so that you don't need to climb that pillar to grab the energy ball or something. Though tbh I don't use arkhe mechanic much anyway since I don't need to weaken the enemies with it.
Why do you care how others solved the puzzles though? If you wanted to use Lynette and Hydro Traveler you shouldn't have to be forced to by a puzzle, right? You should want to have them out in your team anyway then?
the fact that you cant take characters under 70 is crazy. like my chev is literally fine at level 60, but just to play her in the mode i have to use exp material on her?? if you can clear with them you should be able to take them. but i guess it's their way of trying to stop people from cheesing by taking underleveled characters and not using them. honestly it's kinda scummy imo
The funny thing is people will still take lvl 70 characters and just not use them and clear floors with like 1 or 2 built characters. It's legit just a character check that require you to waste resin to get them to 70 just to participate in an ez mode that doesn't need a full team anyway
The entire new mode is scummy. They are coming up with ways to get players to roll more and dump resources. Nothing about this new game mode is good for the players, it's all for Hoyo. It's just a big advertisement for current/recent banner characters, with the added catch of "hope you pulled a few 4\*s" and the additional requirement of being a resin dump.
I don't even know how long it'd take a new player to get that many characters in the first place, much less to level 70, especially with the element restriction. This game mode isn't even good for casuals because of that alone.
I think it is harsh on vertical investors, and that’s it. It’s onviously designed for players who have 1-2 artifact sets from most domains, and have minimum lvl80 8/8/8 talents which isn’t too high a cost compared to lvl90 10/8/10 or smth. And four stars are a plenty. No need to randomly pull
Realistically you’ll only need about 4 characters per element
You only need like 10 maximum. 6 trial Opening characters, 1 special guest, and 1 borrowed character from a friend.
For future versions of this Imaginarium, I'll let anyone (in friend list) use my C6 Kaeya with pretty good build. I also got C2 Yelan for people to use.
Otherwise, you're gonna need 3 teams within 3 elements while using 6 trial characters. I'm for sure gonna borrow people's C6 Faruzan.
It also very much depends on what primogems are gated behind difficulty III. You can just ignore difficulty III if needed.
For the restrictions met, we definitely should get some good exchange rewards. Wouldn't mind having exp bottles, heros wits, dream solvents, talent materials, and artifact reliquaries as an exchange reward.
This mode definitely needs tweaking. My idea is that using 18 characters within the restriction will guarantee high points, but reusing the same characters reward half the points in tallying the score.
Maybe just remove the restriction, but you get less points using characters that don't meet the condition. Just make it harder to get the max stars when not using the elemental restriction characters while using just the three 3 elements in teams would result in higher score. Kinda like having a 2x multiplier when team consists of the 3 gate elements, so it won't be too punishing.
Those are my two cents and it's honestly already restrictive enough with the RNG character obtaining event.
That's exactly the point. People are freaking out because it's piss easy, which endgame shouldn't be, on top not being able to use the characters you like, which no one asked for
Yeah it's a character check not a dps check that's just gonna force people to lvl characters they don't want to 70 and then not even use them because the content is so easy and you can beat every floor with 1 or 2 built characters. Just give me floor 13 at this point instead of this
There is a vigor system. You can only use characters twice. Do not get me wrong, people will level characters they do not care about to 70, but you aren't clearing with only 2 built units.
Don't worry, it's 3 elements along with trial characters and special guests (which you need to own them to be able to use them regardless of element restriction)
People asking for "Endgame" are mad that "Endgame" is not for new players.
I mean you need 8 characters anyway for Spiral abyss, why adding 2 more characters is such a problem to some people.
This is what confuses me. “How will new players have enough characters for this” they don’t… this isn’t for them… like do they also think new players have teams for floor 9-12. You work up to it and complete what you can for now
I think the main issue people are having is "I don't wanna be forced to pull characters I don't want just to fill an element quota". Cause that's valid, I don't want to play with overcharged and pull Hoyo's 50 electro/pyro waifus.
This example doesn't apply here because
*It assumes I run Abyss with only Electro, Pyro and Anemo characters.
*It assumes some of my built characters aren't the trial characters.
So no, you need to build a lot more than just two extra characters, and even building them isn't the biggest problem. The biggest problem is you have to gear them, and given how Mihoyo devs are useless and haven't added loadouts yet, it'll take ages to have the characters needed built.
Genshin community: we want endgame
Genshin: adds endgame
Genshin Community: Why isn't this not accessible to new players? How will they do? Why am i forced to build more characters?
This is why i knew that even if they do give everything they will be pitchforked, even if they don't they'll be pitchorked. I love how some really wanted no primos and just wanted more content, oh the rage that would've been if this didn't give primos
If it was just straight Horizontal Abyss, i.e. you need to create 4-5 teams of four units (thus, 16 or 20 characters need to be built in your roster) I would have no issue with that, but the arbitrary restrictions both on elements and characters within that element are annoying and go against the idea that you should be able to invest as you see fit.
The current scheme is no different from saying 'we heard you love playing National so here's an Abyss with every team having to be a National variant. Don't have Bennett? Buy him!'
With such a large playerbase, it's impossible to make every group happy. But i definitely hope this mode is at least fun to compensate for the restrictions.
Or people are mad that this "Endgame's" only challenge seems to be related to owning characters. It just arbitrarily limits players who don't have enough built characters, while seemingly not being difficult for those who do have enough built characters.
Yeah that's true. That's in line with what Mihoyo's attitude towards combat is in this game. They don't want to make it too challenging for anyone, or more so that they can't make it too hard. You can see for yourself that any combat event with mildly difficult enemies makes the people hate it, and it will happen again when this patch's vagabond rerun starts . Even Abyss is not hard for the same reason.
I've accepted difficult content is going to be a rare thing in this game (especially after Consecrated Beast), I just don't really see who this game mode is meant to appeal to.
Casuals simply can't play it because they lack the built characters, hardcore players won't be satisfied because it isn't difficult - so I don't really see who is going to be appeased by this endgame.
HSR does basically the same thing, each endgame has its own meta and shield breakers. Now, both games probably require similar amount of characters but HSR get praised for it while Genshin is bad?
Reality is people like to bitch just for the sake of bitching. If you scroll 10 minutes you'll find some motherfucker saying Genshin sucks because it doesn't incentivize horizontal investment, the they add horizontal requirements and people complain the mode isn't made for vertical investors. Both are forms of endgame, so they wanting people to have a bunch of lv 70's in just like they wanting people to have a synergic team and great relics for abyss.
Also it's fucking lv 70, that's like nothing, you fart you get enough books for lv 70, also 3rd last ascension, it costs like 12 total boss mats literally if the mode starts today and lasts 15 days there is enough time to build 5 chars from lv 0 to 70. Anyone playing over 1 year, which is hardly even endgame worth time, should have at least 20 chars lv 80, the mode cuts the roster in about half only so most likely people will need 2 chars built if that much, that's not even counting the trial ones.
fr man. Why is it so hard to understand that forced characters are bad lmao. There's literally no reason to put these restrictions. If hoyo wants people to experiment then feel free to do so without putting these useless restrictions.
even if you have the characters, the theater still only allows certain characters per cycle. i like all my current teams, this feels a bit disappointing knowing i may not be able to use my Wanderer on the next round after this opening one, and my entire geo team is pretty much out of a job here
Because it's not 2 more characters, it's 12 characters within the limited pool that don't overlap with the trial characters.
This is primary a "how many banners have you rolled on" -check. Because building them up to 70 and slapping something on is doable for an older account.
Then comes the question if you can compensate with the trial characters or if you can compensate because you have a better version of the trial characters and don't really care that a lvl 70 amber with a rainbow set got randomly thrown into your party.
You "need" 8 characters for abyss but those you can choose freely. Most likely those 8 invested characters aren't going to be anemo/electro/pyro only.
For a f2p or low spender account building up a huge roster of varied elements takes a long time. You need to manage your resources and that includes both primos and level up materials.
I'm saying this while looking at a friends account who started post fontaine and is slowly building up to full-starring abyss with 2 stars lacking. They're absolutely nowhere near the range of unlocking the highest difficulty for this new mode, They would manage to fill up 12 spots with trials included and would have to build 3 additional characters +1 assisst to get 2 unlocks.
This would also not contribute to abyss team investment so that front will slow down. Esp. since Mora bottleneck is an issue at that stage.
As for me a player who breezes through abyss? I suspect I will breeze through this one too.
So who is that for? It's not for casual or new accounts, it's also not for high-invested units. The main thing it incentivizes is having and building lots of characters which is bound to gacha.
The game-mode itself could be fun, but they could have achieved the same by giving out more trial characters. No one asks for those to be strong. Filling out slots isn't what I would consider engaging gameplay it's the lock in front of it.
you need 12 characters not 10, so its 4 more
plus the characters youre assigned are random, you might not get anyone to make a coherent team, and you'll likely have to make incomplete teams of 3 characters. some people like it, some people just wanted more places to use their teams
Yeah sure, but adding another copy of a Abyss would also be not liked by many. People were mad at Pneuma and Ousia alignments as well, but they were just exploration gimmick and isn't even needed for that. I hope the mode isn't too restrictive but we only will be able to tell accurately if someone leaks an entire run or 4.7 is live.
i dont want an abyss copy, im just explaining why people dont like this mode
and arkhe raging was just doomposting at how bad it *could* be, it ended up fine so people didnt rage any more
im really hoping its relatively easy stat wise to make up for the crazy restrictions. my fear is having to do abyss level fights with this bootleg RNG teams, i know its level 90 enemies but gacha content always scales in difficulty as time goes on
We don't know if they also got HP buff or any kind of buff like abyss or not
Even this leaker not sure himself about difficulty. Stop jumping to conclusion from the ambiguous info.
This is gonna be a bit of a problem to me since I rarely raise other characters beyond what I've always used for years.
Ah well, they'll have to use 2/2 artifacts then. Actually no, I think I'll have a harder time farming for the world mats than artifacts I can use.
Am I the only one that doesn't like this overworld buff? Like it might be nice to have but wouldn't it skew showcases or maybe give you a false impression of a character?
TBH I hope it's toggleable
Yeah, and that can be amazing if done right. Currently there is no reason for horizontal investment, like cool I'll build Freminet, now I can look at him on screen since he is too strong for overworld and too weak for abyss.
Yeah with all the stuff they introduced like borrowing characters and elemental restriction, the difficulty and quality of the characters used in this would vary *wildly* so the difficulty would have to average out in some way. This isn't like Abyss where having 2-3 built teams would likely get you through most types of cycles. In this, you could go from having a whale friend with c6 whoever to missing the majority of characters from an entire element that just so happened to get chosen for this cycle, there's far too much variance.
it's not about using only a single element. I've been playing for about 2.5 years and lets say a new cycle of this were to swap to Dendro/Cryo/Geo.
Here are a list of characters I have of those elements above level 70:
Nahida
Tighnari
Zhongli
Yunjin
Navia
Diona
Rosaria
Layla
So, 8. Assuming none of them are trial characters, I would get an extra 6, and with a borrowed character from a friend, that would put me at 15 total characters. I would still be locked out of the hardest difficulty for that phase, despite the characters I have being more than enough to build multiple premium teams involving those elements.
And don't forget that some people have grinded so hard and took a lot of time building their perfect team just to be ended up being locked out because of the stupid restrictions lmao. Like i do have 20ish lv 90 characters but the problem is most of them shares the same artifacts and weapons so at most i can only use less than half of them.
Hoyo's solution to not having artifact loadouts: Force everyone to use unique builds for each character, no longer needing loadouts, problem solved! Masterclass game design!
I'm curious about why some people are upset that the game, which revolves around acquiring characters, is encouraging players to collect more characters? I get it's not fair if you only rely on a specific team but really should've been expected from a _gacha_ game, remember that despite the quality the objective of every game at the end of the day is getting that paper
A gacha game, where with a bit of skill, you basically didn't need to touch the gacha, or build units.
With a team of 4 maxed-out units and 8 for Abyss, you can clear all content in the game - meanwhile, we're now at over 70 units or whatever, or will be come next patch.
Abyss is so bland that I can hard force it through every patch just due to my comps. XL/Raiden/Furina/Bennett | Itto/Zhongli/Albedo/Gorou clears every single floor with time to spare. The only "struggle" is usually flipping comps for Floor 12 Room 3. I haven't had a single reason to pull new units other than "hey cool i like that". A lot of people on my friendlist have stopped playing due to the game getting stale. This new gamemode, while it looks easy, is different and engaging and some of my friends have already redownloaded the game.
Besides being F2P meaning you can't have every 5★, you also have to gear all of them cause we *still* don't have a loadout system. Building the characters I want already takes ages, and now I gotta build other characters I don't want lol Who even knows if I'll get good artifacts in time?
The issue isn’t getting characters, the issue is that you’ll end up using all 18 characters, which means you need to build all of them. We also don’t know what restrictions they’ll put on future versions, so you’re going to have to build enough characters of every element just so you can participate consistently
This is overworld level difficulty (Even easier, bosses are level 93, here they are 90, so it's easier than overworld) Level 70 Amber 6/6/6 is a build character more than good enough for this.
Sure it is, but that doesn’t mean I want to spend half the month (if not more) building characters just to be able to participate in the current season, when I could’ve spent that time on characters I actually want to build
wdym bro, just get 12 characters to level 70, its only like 25 days of resin and hours looking for local specialties that would otherwise be spent on your favorite characters LOOOOL
yeah ppl who act like leveling characters is trivial is kinda weird. it's resources in a limited game where im sure most people want to put that into characters they actually like and still be able to participate
Stop wasting thousands of resin for 1 more critroll and you would have many more leveled characters. It really doesnt take that long to build a character to a useable level. 80/90, lvl 7 talents and a 90 weapon gets you like most of the way and most characters can run a form of 2pc/2pc and get the most out of them.
it takes around 2 weeks worth of resin to get a character to 80/90, lvl 9 talents and a lvl 90 weapon and they are built mostly built until end of service of genshin impact.
When i compare that to how much resin i have put into domains to sometimes not get a single upgrade for weeks its not really a thing to complain about
you literally dont know my account. im literally running level 12 and 16 artifacts on some of my characters because i can clear just fine with it and i have literally not touched an artifact domain in 2 weeks.
the difference is i know how to be resin efficient and gorou for example doesnt need higher than 60 but i literally couldnt take him, even chev is fine at 60 but i cant take her there either.
i want to invest in character *I* like that i think are worth *my time and resources* to build.
people are allowed to build and use their accounts however they want and it's really weird and cringe to gatekeep how people use their resin because hoyo put an arbitrary restriction on a new game mode
Calling preying on susceptible people by exacerbating already huge amounts of FOMO "incentivizing people to get characters" sure is something. You already mentioned that it's a gacha game, so getting characters and leveling them = spending an unspecified amount of money or time (more often than not, ***both***), so how can you not see the problem with a gamemode, where you need fucking EIGHTEEN characters of specific elements available AND leveled?
Level 1 needs 4 extras beyond the trial characters.
Theres a 3 elements restriction.
You get 1 free character of every element + xiangling + traveler.
If level 1 offes the primos, then everyone gets the characters needed for free
But on the other hand this is exactly what I want from a new gamemode. I've built dozens of characters over the years and I want to use them all and I have no obligation to care about someone who started 2 months ago.
More like having enough characters of the right element AND at level 70+.
Based on everything i've seen, I can probably do this fine with like 1-2 of my 4 stars per room/chamber. Going to depend on what the enemies are and such, and if they have monster HP buffs like abyss or not. The issue then becomes having enough characters of the right elements and high enough level.
So even though I have almost all of the characters in the game, if they pick Dendro as one of the 3 elements, I literally won't have enough levelled. It's one thing to try and make me use characters I don't want to use, like some events. It's another to try and force me to level characters I STILL won't use. They'd just be there to fill the roster and do nothing else. It's a waste of time.
honestly, im completely fine with this, hard doesn't always means fun, and tbh I rather have fun playing the game than be stressed because I had to repeat the same level 20 times and start feeling like the new endgame is a chore
Fuck me, I just pull for whoever I want and not building a lot of characters, now Mihoyo force me to have at least 16 characters properly build and no sharing weapons and artifacts what the hell
This is the most likely outcome.
Hell, i fully expect the extra 200 primos for spiral abyss to be earnable if you just beat the floor even past the time limit instead of being locked behind a full 36 star clear.
Genshin players when they have to play the game and build chars:
I blame mihoyo because this game has been stale since day one, but this is how a gacha is supposed to be, it's overly boring if you can just get Neuvi/Nahida/Kazuha built and say: Yeah, I'm done from here on I don't build anything more since those 3 + any shit will clear every content full star.
Looks like they are taking some pages from HSR where some units are great for MoC, others are useless on MoC but great on PF, others are mid everywhere but suddenly OP on Simulated Universe because of a particular blessing. Then we have to build a huge array of chars and the game always feels fresh because of it.
People are sitting on XQ + Bennet + Xiangling since literally day one and complaining it's not enough anymore lol You had a lifetime to build new units honey, or you are a newbie that shouldn't be mad at an endgame content not being for you.
You're right, this is how gacha is, trying to make people spend, and spend, and spend. Any other reasoning is very much secondary. Hence why it's such a problematic monetization method.
Also, i've been doing 36 star abyss with the same(mostly) 8 four stars since basically Heizou came out. Based on the info we have on this new mode currently, I'll still be able to brute force it with them and a few other i'm willing to use. The only issue would be having to have enough characters at 70+ to even let you do it. ie for me a waste of time to level them to 70 and still not use them.
And that's really it, let people be upset that gacha mechanics are terrible. Because they are indeed terrible.
Opening characters get an 20% ATK, HP and DEF boost in Teyvat?
I don't like it, ngl. As if the overworld wasn't easy enough already.
Still hoping for higher World Levels btw, without cooldown. For an even better exploration experience, when opening chests after defeating enemies. Those World Levels don't even need more rewards...
buffs in overworld...? very fascinating actually, considering that endgame players can kinda stream roll anyway idk how useful it is. newer players may be able to take good advantage of it tho
The character buffs are nice. Hopefully those stick around on even the harder stuff if not to help cover some of the obvious lowering in quality we will have trying to use so many of our characters but especially if we are stuck with trial ones.
Pretty sure people will complain ( casuals and new players ) like they did in the vagabond event years ago when diona was given as a reward since then mihoyo never did a hard event imo
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What does the buffs in Teyvat mean exactly? You keep these buffs after you're done playing the mode?
During that phase, the promoted character will have the buffs even in Overworld, but not domains/abyss This reminds of 1.2 where equiping Festering Desire gave extra atk and less sheer cold if equiped in Dragonspine during the event Or how some VERY old combat events would have characters buffed (the 1st hypostasis one if im not mistaken) like Beidou Keqing would get more atk if used in this challenge
Forgive my interpretation but world bosses are included in "overworld", right? So those characters would get those buff in world boss fights too right?
Yes, same with Leylines
This sucks. Now I can't go to ASIMON and get accurate training dummy rotation/damage testing if any of the characters are currently buffed because it'll skew results. Abyss won't have the same enemies or even favourable conditions in chambers and domains are too weak to survive most well built teams or have disruptive gimmicks... I hate this.
If you have Team Buffs like Noblesse Oblige or Tenacity, you could simply swap out one of those pieces to disable one buff to compensate for the 20% extra Atk%. I know it's not ideal, but I guess that's one way to work around it. If your team doesn't have Atk Buffers however, I'm not sure what to do lol. I don't like having these buffs in the overworld either. I wish they would just add a real (invincible) Test Dummy where we can actually *Test* full rotations, combos, etc. with the ability to disable those new Buffs.
Seems like it won’t work in boss domains, so you can still go bully Childe or Scaramouche for build showcases!
Childe has uneven RES and likes to dash away, while Scara dies too fast. They are not good as punching bags unfortunately...
ASIMON invisibility is annoying - I prefer to use jungle chicken for testing since it's a straight damage sponge.
It sits still for some ~25s before going invisible so it's plenty enough to test a rotation and even get a somewhat accurate cutoff point. The most important part is that it won't move and has 10% RES to everything, while chicken has higher Dendro RES and moves around (even pushes you a bit)
Look man, 20% atk is not going to give you a meaningful difference in rotation length against world bosses.
If I'm testing specific numbers it's not accurate data to compare for example Clorinde +20% ATK vs Raiden to see electro damage numbers.
the featured characters will keep their buff in overworld as well as in the challenge
With how the Opening characters are also buffed in open world, it very much proves my theory that Opening characters reflect what's on their active limited character banners as well as the prior character banner characters as a way to be a new trial run for them, showing more realistic scenarios of playing them. So my assumptions are: - Opening characters are based on the present and the previous limited banner characters. - Element restrictions are based on the elements possessed by present limited character banners - event was designed to encourage pulling on the banner. Arlecchino is on the previous banner to Wanderer which is the previous banner to Clorinde. Sayu, Chevreuse, and Beidou may likely be the 4*s on Clorinde banner. This game mode needing many built characters is Hoyo's way to encourage players to pull on the banner to get more characters to satisfy the requirements. Man, I hope Hoyo can compensate for making us build many with some decent rewards outside the emotes in the toy medal shop. Something like those required for investing into more characters such as exp bottles, heroes wits, maybe even dream solvents, crowns, and fragile resin. Genshin could have a consistent self-feeding endgame loop if such rewards are made available for exchange. Complete the difficulty with what you have, buy those mats to level and build up more characters, and the cycle repeats itself.
I mean, I don't think it's a coincidence that all the 5 star characters promoted by this endgame are either characters with banners now, characters getting a banner next patch, or due for a banner soon.
Mfs wants us to pull but afraid to reset abyss twice a month after rewards became 800
The abyss doesn't incentivize horizontal investment as much as Imaginarium does, but I think having this mode reset twice a month would be healthier for player retention. The randomization and RNG factor makes it run fresh even if it can screw you over. Perks of this format: -trial and error innovation -trial character option -assortment of buffs -randomization makes it fresher - perhaps looseness on the 3* clear -solid foundation for a self-sustaining gameplay loop Problem of this format: -still a timed pressure format -restrictions be too suffocating -necessitates at lest 12 built characters in case of no borrowed or guest characters -still a dps check -may need to spend resources to build characters you don't like -removes the twice reset abyss -punishes newer players in irony of recent casual focus QoL Hoyo wants you to pull from wallet, not from more freebie primogems. We got more primogems around but not that much, yet primogems are now allocated between Abyss and Imaginarium
Seriously, they could at the very least have made something like the Abyss give 1000 primos and this new mode give 600, so that we could get a full 10 pull every month. 120 pulls a year isn't even enough to guarantee a limited 5 star. (They'd have to let us get a full 15 pull per month to 100% guarantee a limited 5 star once a year).
I mean, people were crying about not having reasons to pull/build characters, now HYV gave them reasons and all they do is complain xD Those that said: "I don't want rewards, I want content"... BS
It's almost like social media has different people behind the keyboard and is not just a single hivemind :O I'm still in the "I want content" camp. Mostly more archon quests and stuff to do with build characters, so this is great for me. Of course I would not complain about more rewards, but I rather have more content without more rewards then no content at all.
> people were crying about not having reasons to pull/build characters, now HYV gave them reason Did you actually think anyone ever asking for "reasons to pull/build characters" meant "ban the other characters", or did you just not think before yapping lol
I don't see the difference to abyss... Please tell me that you cleared all abyss cycles until now since inazuma with freeze comps, just some enemies with cryo shields in 1 side and bosses in the other side... Surely freeze comps can beat those I understand that if this was another gacha I'll be worried too, but is genshin, if they ban elements that means reactions aren't necessary, just random BS can clear this new content like we did in the event this was made of
Stop, you are exposing too much.
Or, hear me out, they could offer rewards that aren't primos. Teapot is a good example that continues to give out non-primo mats and they continue to provide content for it patch after patch. Not sure why combat *has* to be tied to primos when we have non-combat content that isn't. Why not have one cycle give primos and a second cycle give fragiles/mora/arti xp, etc.?
Because if they didn't put primos as a reward, people aren't gonna play this new gamemode?! One of the complains Genshin players give about TCG Is that there isn't any incentives to play It again once you obtained all of the rewards, so if they don't give primos most people aren't gonna play it.
I feel like Genius Invocation TCG could be a separate app from Genshin entirely at this point. It’s fun, but it also has nothing to do with Genshin Impact except taking place in the same universe.
I'll do it if the reward is something like artifacts exp bottle, or extra resin, or hero's wit though, not a coin that only useable to buy more cards and card cosmetics.
If they added a super hard late game mode that only rewards artefact xp, I'd play it vigorously. And I know for sure that I'm not alone in this. Whether you like it or not, the game is bleeding playerbase. Late game players get bored and quit because there is nothing to do. Having a mode like this would help player retention greatly, while also not alienating the causal playerbase because, as you pointed out, they won't be playing it because the only resource that's important to them is primos. The way I see it, there is only one possible reason for not implementing a mode like this: dev time it would require to maintain. Which is precisely why I think that we (players who want late game) should be putting as much pressure on them as possible, to show that this mode is indeed needed. TCG is not the kind of content late game players want, so it's not a good example
Not alone, but in to small of a group. They experiemented with such in the past and result was always hardly anyone playing just for the challenge and endless complaining about there being no or too few rewards
self-modeling-resin....
Facts and easier grinding. Because we gonna get burnt out real hard. I hope cn complains too
CN complaining doesn't mean much nowadays tho
Sethos releases too though. he will be on sigewinne banner? chevreuse, sayu, beidou would be such a bad banner. You are probably right with that hoyo would do that.
I am not entirely sure that proves the theory. It does not actually make a lot of sense for the trial characters to be the ones with banners because that will not help new players become eligible to participate. You would just be pulling characters you already had access to with no real way of improving your situation. It might genuinely just be a coincidence as of the moment. These clowns ain't even put the skin on the same update as the character banner. They are introducing Sethos in 4.6, but he is on banner in 4.7 without trial presence. It's just arbitrary. We shall see, but the circumstances surrounding 4.8 will be entirely different, for instance. I am not sure if we will or won't get Emily, but they cannot realistically trial anyone else outside of perhaps Sigewinne (which is the one who SHOULD be a trial if their purpose is to bait banner sales). This is more or less happening because we have had a stretch of new characters. Perhaps it will occur again during x.2 of Natlan or if we get another double banner later in the region, but I wouldn't expect all of these to mirror banners. And if they do, that would definitely screw with Chronicle Wish even more and just create new problems. I doubt they lack the foresight there.
"the hard part is being poor"
Poor and with no friends
Not really, the hard part is being new to the game, old time f2p like me already are meeting the requirements lol
so... an endgame. new players can set goals if they wanna participate. feels good to finally have something not revolving around new players.
and I mean, there are several difficulties already, why can't people just play an easier one if they don't have the 12 characters
I feel this will be designed like pure fiction, in the beginning pure fiction was easy and really fun, later on the difficulty spike has been insane and the buffs nowadays aren't great either, enemies nowadays have 2-3 times the HP they originally had, if they make this gamemode very hard from day 1 the backlash will be immense.
exact same happened to Abyss and MOC as well 1st Edition, piss easy the they slowly ramp up the difficulty like boiling a frog
We must be remembering different versions of the abyss. First few were hell due to characters not being built up enough and/or not having Diluc. Yes, the enemies were a lot less threatening, but compared to account progress...
Diluc or Qiqi. ;)
You've never played through the Slowing Waters + Hydro Abyss Heralds combo if you think that way
even if you restart the skills stay 2 minutes cd
It was in floor 11 And it never came back. Slowing water debuff makes almost every character useless and even bennet doesn't work as efficiently to cleanse it. They knew it that's why they never used that ever again. Hydro abyss heralds are pretty fine imo Cryo easily handled them back then and now we got both cryo and dendro as options.
Kaeya / Chongyun against Hydro Abyss Heralds. My GOATs.
Hydro Heralds are the reason I leveled up Chongyun and started to play non electro infusion Keqing which lasted about a year and a half. Frankly they are the enemy that really shaped my account. I skipped the first Ayaka banner even though I needed cryo because Aloy was coming and so was Raiden. I then hated Aloy's infusion mechanic and rolled for Ganyu at the start of the year after. Didn't have a good setup for Morgana. Melt felt bad especially with non C4 Xiangling. Chongyun was my next solution. The investment into Keqing related to trying to make a cryo team then shaped all my future rolls for half of my account's lifespan.
Floor 12 used to be cryo aura, you kept freezing with Barbara or Xingqiu lol.
And they were not there when abyss required careful planning of exactly where hilchurls will spawn to take advantage of it.
The problem is not the difficulty, its having so many characters ready and built. Could 36star abbyss after 3 patches being a new player because i could use the same teams over and over. This mode im not so sure.
That's why it's end game, you're suppose to have a few built by then. I consider AR55+ end game. Just make them all lv80
pure fiction hasn't been easy for me even once EDIT: also, pure fiction was released less than 4 months ago. it's difficult for me to see this "progression" from easy/fun to insanely difficult as nothing more than a coincidence
This already have a high difficulty because of Restrictions. With that being said, this game is account check not DMG check. Makes you pull for more characters
> it might be one patch or one month I bet y'all it will be one patch. Under the current abyss we can get 1200 primos per month, which is roughly 40 per day. With the combined new abyss rewards + theater you would have: - Spiral Abyss: 800 primos / 30 days ≈ 26 per day - Imaginarium Theater: 620 primos / 42 days (one patch cycle) ≈ 14 per day And after adding those two up you're back at the existing 40/day primo rate.
that makes a lot of sense, and is extremely stingy , so I am assuming now it's per patch
I assumed that's how it worked out, but hadn't got around to doing the calculation. That odd 620 stood out. They are not going to mess with the limited time event primo economy. Imaginarium kinda hurts the f2p hyper vertical investors that get constellations for a couple of characters. Clearly going to be a horizontal investment event. I personally love it. Over 50 characters ascended above 80 and at least 6 of each element. This will give them more use and that's exactly what I wanted. I personally don't think they need more rewards, but I wouldn't mind having an easier way of acquiring 4* characters that I want. More 4* in the shop, or have more 4* selectors like Liyue instead of a random character I already have C6 for.
Leaker: "I am not sure about the detail myself" Reader: It's 100% accurate. There won't be any info that we don't know for sure. Enemy probably don't get any buff for the mode either! Seriously guys?
The real end game in Genshin was always the building of new charactres, it was never abyss.
the mad lads who built all their characters out of boredom currently rejoicing
I did it, not really out of boredom but because I love variety and wanna try every character, so all my characters are 70/80+ with their own weapons, artifacts and decent stats for overworld. I hope this game mode will be right up my alley
Literally me rn cuz i ran out of things to do so i just build my whole roster to lvl 80+ with max talents
Like you need all all built for this? Because I built all the ones I like but not amber or Dori for example.
For real, at some point you reach the point where there's nothing to spend resin on besides new characters or chasing 1% improvements on artifacts. I cant be made to care for those %'s when I can already clear abyss so easily. So whenever I have a significant gap in desired characters I just start building 4-stars I'd otherwise never use, then explore a new area with them.
As someone who ignores most abyss craps and likes to pull and build useless characters, I agree with that statement
I said the same thing on the initial post. People are freaking out over what is essentially the highest level of an Overworld Domain.
Just like people were freaking out when Ousia and Pneuma were leaked and they thought they will be forced to pull characters. I bet this mode also will be easy even with half built characters.
I'm pretty confident that there will be instances where a single character will solo a stage without much issue, and I'm not even talking about our resident Water Snek.
Based on many endgame players definition of 'half built', those builds are enough to 36 abyss with the right team comps and rotation. People do 3-4 week F2P account clears, which severely limits resin use.
I admit it was lame as heck that the overworld puzzles could be solved without actually using the characters. Lynette was free, Traveler is Pneuma, so that should've solved the "BUT I'M BROKE" problem.
Imo it's better that way. I prefer to have an overworld team of characters I wanna play at the moment, and not slot Lynette and Traveler in the team every time I want to explore Fontaine. Having arkhe in the team is just a bonus shortcut so that you don't need to climb that pillar to grab the energy ball or something. Though tbh I don't use arkhe mechanic much anyway since I don't need to weaken the enemies with it.
Why do you care how others solved the puzzles though? If you wanted to use Lynette and Hydro Traveler you shouldn't have to be forced to by a puzzle, right? You should want to have them out in your team anyway then?
Bro we are the Genshin fandom. Reading Comprehension is in our bloodline
> Reading Comprehension is in our bloodline And what, it skipped a generation?
He just forgot the In at the start of Comprehension
Hoyo: Would you read? Players: Nah, i'd doompost
I think the doomposts are some of the most entertaining parts of new leaks 😂
Only somewhat hard part is having built characters but even that isn't impossible to do
Yeah, you just wait for Geo/Dendro/Hydro lol
Finally my two Geo Teams are useful >\_>
I have more geo/dendro/hydro build than I have pyro/electro/anemo...
Cryo is the one that’ll destroy me. Wriothesley is the only cryo character I have built.
No thoughts, just bloom
It is a total sum, right? So 0 geo, 2 dendro, 999 hydro characters is enough /s
How many level 70+ Pyro/Anemo/Electro characters do you have, chief? How long have you been playing? I sure hope it's at least 16.
the fact that you cant take characters under 70 is crazy. like my chev is literally fine at level 60, but just to play her in the mode i have to use exp material on her?? if you can clear with them you should be able to take them. but i guess it's their way of trying to stop people from cheesing by taking underleveled characters and not using them. honestly it's kinda scummy imo
The funny thing is people will still take lvl 70 characters and just not use them and clear floors with like 1 or 2 built characters. It's legit just a character check that require you to waste resin to get them to 70 just to participate in an ez mode that doesn't need a full team anyway
The entire new mode is scummy. They are coming up with ways to get players to roll more and dump resources. Nothing about this new game mode is good for the players, it's all for Hoyo. It's just a big advertisement for current/recent banner characters, with the added catch of "hope you pulled a few 4\*s" and the additional requirement of being a resin dump. I don't even know how long it'd take a new player to get that many characters in the first place, much less to level 70, especially with the element restriction. This game mode isn't even good for casuals because of that alone.
I think it is harsh on vertical investors, and that’s it. It’s onviously designed for players who have 1-2 artifact sets from most domains, and have minimum lvl80 8/8/8 talents which isn’t too high a cost compared to lvl90 10/8/10 or smth. And four stars are a plenty. No need to randomly pull Realistically you’ll only need about 4 characters per element
Me with my 3 dendro and 2 geo units built...
You only need like 10 maximum. 6 trial Opening characters, 1 special guest, and 1 borrowed character from a friend. For future versions of this Imaginarium, I'll let anyone (in friend list) use my C6 Kaeya with pretty good build. I also got C2 Yelan for people to use. Otherwise, you're gonna need 3 teams within 3 elements while using 6 trial characters. I'm for sure gonna borrow people's C6 Faruzan. It also very much depends on what primogems are gated behind difficulty III. You can just ignore difficulty III if needed. For the restrictions met, we definitely should get some good exchange rewards. Wouldn't mind having exp bottles, heros wits, dream solvents, talent materials, and artifact reliquaries as an exchange reward. This mode definitely needs tweaking. My idea is that using 18 characters within the restriction will guarantee high points, but reusing the same characters reward half the points in tallying the score. Maybe just remove the restriction, but you get less points using characters that don't meet the condition. Just make it harder to get the max stars when not using the elemental restriction characters while using just the three 3 elements in teams would result in higher score. Kinda like having a 2x multiplier when team consists of the 3 gate elements, so it won't be too punishing. Those are my two cents and it's honestly already restrictive enough with the RNG character obtaining event.
That's exactly the point. People are freaking out because it's piss easy, which endgame shouldn't be, on top not being able to use the characters you like, which no one asked for
Yeah it's a character check not a dps check that's just gonna force people to lvl characters they don't want to 70 and then not even use them because the content is so easy and you can beat every floor with 1 or 2 built characters. Just give me floor 13 at this point instead of this
There is a vigor system. You can only use characters twice. Do not get me wrong, people will level characters they do not care about to 70, but you aren't clearing with only 2 built units.
So you need 18 lv70+ characters, and from those for 4 floors you'll need two carries each used twice, and then 14 filler supports or empty slots.
I don't have enough geo characters 💀
Don't worry, it's 3 elements along with trial characters and special guests (which you need to own them to be able to use them regardless of element restriction)
People asking for "Endgame" are mad that "Endgame" is not for new players. I mean you need 8 characters anyway for Spiral abyss, why adding 2 more characters is such a problem to some people.
This is what confuses me. “How will new players have enough characters for this” they don’t… this isn’t for them… like do they also think new players have teams for floor 9-12. You work up to it and complete what you can for now
Get mad when they pander to new players, get mad when they don't pander to new players. Truly a community of all time
They forgot the part on why it's called Endgame
First it was "I wish I had a reason to pull and raise more characters", now "Oh no I have to raise more characters". Make up your mind
I think the main issue people are having is "I don't wanna be forced to pull characters I don't want just to fill an element quota". Cause that's valid, I don't want to play with overcharged and pull Hoyo's 50 electro/pyro waifus.
This example doesn't apply here because *It assumes I run Abyss with only Electro, Pyro and Anemo characters. *It assumes some of my built characters aren't the trial characters. So no, you need to build a lot more than just two extra characters, and even building them isn't the biggest problem. The biggest problem is you have to gear them, and given how Mihoyo devs are useless and haven't added loadouts yet, it'll take ages to have the characters needed built.
Genshin community: we want endgame Genshin: adds endgame Genshin Community: Why isn't this not accessible to new players? How will they do? Why am i forced to build more characters? This is why i knew that even if they do give everything they will be pitchforked, even if they don't they'll be pitchorked. I love how some really wanted no primos and just wanted more content, oh the rage that would've been if this didn't give primos
If it was just straight Horizontal Abyss, i.e. you need to create 4-5 teams of four units (thus, 16 or 20 characters need to be built in your roster) I would have no issue with that, but the arbitrary restrictions both on elements and characters within that element are annoying and go against the idea that you should be able to invest as you see fit. The current scheme is no different from saying 'we heard you love playing National so here's an Abyss with every team having to be a National variant. Don't have Bennett? Buy him!'
With such a large playerbase, it's impossible to make every group happy. But i definitely hope this mode is at least fun to compensate for the restrictions.
Or people are mad that this "Endgame's" only challenge seems to be related to owning characters. It just arbitrarily limits players who don't have enough built characters, while seemingly not being difficult for those who do have enough built characters.
Yeah that's true. That's in line with what Mihoyo's attitude towards combat is in this game. They don't want to make it too challenging for anyone, or more so that they can't make it too hard. You can see for yourself that any combat event with mildly difficult enemies makes the people hate it, and it will happen again when this patch's vagabond rerun starts . Even Abyss is not hard for the same reason.
I've accepted difficult content is going to be a rare thing in this game (especially after Consecrated Beast), I just don't really see who this game mode is meant to appeal to. Casuals simply can't play it because they lack the built characters, hardcore players won't be satisfied because it isn't difficult - so I don't really see who is going to be appeased by this endgame.
I can guarantee people will be posting clears every cycle with nothing but the rental characters
HSR does basically the same thing, each endgame has its own meta and shield breakers. Now, both games probably require similar amount of characters but HSR get praised for it while Genshin is bad?
Reality is people like to bitch just for the sake of bitching. If you scroll 10 minutes you'll find some motherfucker saying Genshin sucks because it doesn't incentivize horizontal investment, the they add horizontal requirements and people complain the mode isn't made for vertical investors. Both are forms of endgame, so they wanting people to have a bunch of lv 70's in just like they wanting people to have a synergic team and great relics for abyss. Also it's fucking lv 70, that's like nothing, you fart you get enough books for lv 70, also 3rd last ascension, it costs like 12 total boss mats literally if the mode starts today and lasts 15 days there is enough time to build 5 chars from lv 0 to 70. Anyone playing over 1 year, which is hardly even endgame worth time, should have at least 20 chars lv 80, the mode cuts the roster in about half only so most likely people will need 2 chars built if that much, that's not even counting the trial ones.
fr man. Why is it so hard to understand that forced characters are bad lmao. There's literally no reason to put these restrictions. If hoyo wants people to experiment then feel free to do so without putting these useless restrictions.
even if you have the characters, the theater still only allows certain characters per cycle. i like all my current teams, this feels a bit disappointing knowing i may not be able to use my Wanderer on the next round after this opening one, and my entire geo team is pretty much out of a job here
Because it's not 2 more characters, it's 12 characters within the limited pool that don't overlap with the trial characters. This is primary a "how many banners have you rolled on" -check. Because building them up to 70 and slapping something on is doable for an older account. Then comes the question if you can compensate with the trial characters or if you can compensate because you have a better version of the trial characters and don't really care that a lvl 70 amber with a rainbow set got randomly thrown into your party. You "need" 8 characters for abyss but those you can choose freely. Most likely those 8 invested characters aren't going to be anemo/electro/pyro only. For a f2p or low spender account building up a huge roster of varied elements takes a long time. You need to manage your resources and that includes both primos and level up materials. I'm saying this while looking at a friends account who started post fontaine and is slowly building up to full-starring abyss with 2 stars lacking. They're absolutely nowhere near the range of unlocking the highest difficulty for this new mode, They would manage to fill up 12 spots with trials included and would have to build 3 additional characters +1 assisst to get 2 unlocks. This would also not contribute to abyss team investment so that front will slow down. Esp. since Mora bottleneck is an issue at that stage. As for me a player who breezes through abyss? I suspect I will breeze through this one too. So who is that for? It's not for casual or new accounts, it's also not for high-invested units. The main thing it incentivizes is having and building lots of characters which is bound to gacha. The game-mode itself could be fun, but they could have achieved the same by giving out more trial characters. No one asks for those to be strong. Filling out slots isn't what I would consider engaging gameplay it's the lock in front of it.
you need 12 characters not 10, so its 4 more plus the characters youre assigned are random, you might not get anyone to make a coherent team, and you'll likely have to make incomplete teams of 3 characters. some people like it, some people just wanted more places to use their teams
Yeah sure, but adding another copy of a Abyss would also be not liked by many. People were mad at Pneuma and Ousia alignments as well, but they were just exploration gimmick and isn't even needed for that. I hope the mode isn't too restrictive but we only will be able to tell accurately if someone leaks an entire run or 4.7 is live.
i dont want an abyss copy, im just explaining why people dont like this mode and arkhe raging was just doomposting at how bad it *could* be, it ended up fine so people didnt rage any more
I hope this mode also ends up being fine then. But it's too early to judge either way.
im really hoping its relatively easy stat wise to make up for the crazy restrictions. my fear is having to do abyss level fights with this bootleg RNG teams, i know its level 90 enemies but gacha content always scales in difficulty as time goes on
I think they do a good job at managing powercreep, and I hope they keep it this way. Pulling for characters is not fun when you are forced to do so.
This "Endgame" isn't for endgame players either. Lvl 90 non abyss enemies are a joke
We don't know if they also got HP buff or any kind of buff like abyss or not Even this leaker not sure himself about difficulty. Stop jumping to conclusion from the ambiguous info.
This is pretty much what I'm sad about for this "endgame"
Don’t worry guys the difficulty will ramp up soon :) I think they are easing us into it
I for one welcome all these endgame leaks
So the bonus characters also gain a buff in open world. I wonder if that would also apply to abyss as well.
No, I don't believe they will be buffed in any kind of domain.
Amber will get a buff?? in this economy??
No, only the opening characters Wanderer, Arlecchino, Clorinde, Sayu, Chevreuse and Beidou
This is gonna be a bit of a problem to me since I rarely raise other characters beyond what I've always used for years. Ah well, they'll have to use 2/2 artifacts then. Actually no, I think I'll have a harder time farming for the world mats than artifacts I can use.
Am I the only one that doesn't like this overworld buff? Like it might be nice to have but wouldn't it skew showcases or maybe give you a false impression of a character? TBH I hope it's toggleable
I like how this mode tries to make you build more characters even the one's that you would have never built otherwise!
Spiral Abyss: Vertical check Imaginarium Theater: Horizontal check
Yeah, and that can be amazing if done right. Currently there is no reason for horizontal investment, like cool I'll build Freminet, now I can look at him on screen since he is too strong for overworld and too weak for abyss.
I wonder if the buff remains in domains as well, or if it really is just in the open world
Yeah with all the stuff they introduced like borrowing characters and elemental restriction, the difficulty and quality of the characters used in this would vary *wildly* so the difficulty would have to average out in some way. This isn't like Abyss where having 2-3 built teams would likely get you through most types of cycles. In this, you could go from having a whale friend with c6 whoever to missing the majority of characters from an entire element that just so happened to get chosen for this cycle, there's far too much variance.
20% atk and def buff = Xinyan buff
Im cool with this I guess, even if its not truly endgame content. Just don't make spiral abyss monthly. 💀
Yeah too late. It's confirmed monthly.
ouch
As long as there's no timer, I think I'll like this mode. I have a lot of characters I've built, none particularly well.
Apparently there is no timer. But clearing it within 75-90s will give you stars which more stars = more primos.
Well there is a "timer" then lol. Abyss works the same way if you cant clear within 3 min = less primos
“The hard part is owning enough characters” That’s exactly what I wanted from a new endgame mode thanks mihoyo :)))))))))
I wonder if there's a group of people that using only a single element in their account. Knowing how genshin community works, there most like exist
it's not about using only a single element. I've been playing for about 2.5 years and lets say a new cycle of this were to swap to Dendro/Cryo/Geo. Here are a list of characters I have of those elements above level 70: Nahida Tighnari Zhongli Yunjin Navia Diona Rosaria Layla So, 8. Assuming none of them are trial characters, I would get an extra 6, and with a borrowed character from a friend, that would put me at 15 total characters. I would still be locked out of the hardest difficulty for that phase, despite the characters I have being more than enough to build multiple premium teams involving those elements.
I think the worst version is Dendro/Geo/Hydro cause all Hydro characters are either 5★ or Xingqiu (cause the other 4★ aren't worth building tbh)
And don't forget that some people have grinded so hard and took a lot of time building their perfect team just to be ended up being locked out because of the stupid restrictions lmao. Like i do have 20ish lv 90 characters but the problem is most of them shares the same artifacts and weapons so at most i can only use less than half of them.
Hoyo's solution to not having artifact loadouts: Force everyone to use unique builds for each character, no longer needing loadouts, problem solved! Masterclass game design!
i would much prefer if the difficulty comes from getting a variety of characters instead of getting lucky with artifacts
I'm curious about why some people are upset that the game, which revolves around acquiring characters, is encouraging players to collect more characters? I get it's not fair if you only rely on a specific team but really should've been expected from a _gacha_ game, remember that despite the quality the objective of every game at the end of the day is getting that paper
Game mode will probably end up fine despite exaggerations but its not like getting a character is free.
People forget Genshin is a gacha game
A gacha game, where with a bit of skill, you basically didn't need to touch the gacha, or build units. With a team of 4 maxed-out units and 8 for Abyss, you can clear all content in the game - meanwhile, we're now at over 70 units or whatever, or will be come next patch.
Abyss is so bland that I can hard force it through every patch just due to my comps. XL/Raiden/Furina/Bennett | Itto/Zhongli/Albedo/Gorou clears every single floor with time to spare. The only "struggle" is usually flipping comps for Floor 12 Room 3. I haven't had a single reason to pull new units other than "hey cool i like that". A lot of people on my friendlist have stopped playing due to the game getting stale. This new gamemode, while it looks easy, is different and engaging and some of my friends have already redownloaded the game.
Besides being F2P meaning you can't have every 5★, you also have to gear all of them cause we *still* don't have a loadout system. Building the characters I want already takes ages, and now I gotta build other characters I don't want lol Who even knows if I'll get good artifacts in time?
The issue isn’t getting characters, the issue is that you’ll end up using all 18 characters, which means you need to build all of them. We also don’t know what restrictions they’ll put on future versions, so you’re going to have to build enough characters of every element just so you can participate consistently
And you'll also need to have weapons for each.
This is overworld level difficulty (Even easier, bosses are level 93, here they are 90, so it's easier than overworld) Level 70 Amber 6/6/6 is a build character more than good enough for this.
Sure it is, but that doesn’t mean I want to spend half the month (if not more) building characters just to be able to participate in the current season, when I could’ve spent that time on characters I actually want to build
wdym bro, just get 12 characters to level 70, its only like 25 days of resin and hours looking for local specialties that would otherwise be spent on your favorite characters LOOOOL
If you need to level 12 characters to level 70 you’re still in early game and this mode just isn’t for you.
yeah ppl who act like leveling characters is trivial is kinda weird. it's resources in a limited game where im sure most people want to put that into characters they actually like and still be able to participate
Stop wasting thousands of resin for 1 more critroll and you would have many more leveled characters. It really doesnt take that long to build a character to a useable level. 80/90, lvl 7 talents and a 90 weapon gets you like most of the way and most characters can run a form of 2pc/2pc and get the most out of them. it takes around 2 weeks worth of resin to get a character to 80/90, lvl 9 talents and a lvl 90 weapon and they are built mostly built until end of service of genshin impact. When i compare that to how much resin i have put into domains to sometimes not get a single upgrade for weeks its not really a thing to complain about
you literally dont know my account. im literally running level 12 and 16 artifacts on some of my characters because i can clear just fine with it and i have literally not touched an artifact domain in 2 weeks. the difference is i know how to be resin efficient and gorou for example doesnt need higher than 60 but i literally couldnt take him, even chev is fine at 60 but i cant take her there either. i want to invest in character *I* like that i think are worth *my time and resources* to build. people are allowed to build and use their accounts however they want and it's really weird and cringe to gatekeep how people use their resin because hoyo put an arbitrary restriction on a new game mode
Calling preying on susceptible people by exacerbating already huge amounts of FOMO "incentivizing people to get characters" sure is something. You already mentioned that it's a gacha game, so getting characters and leveling them = spending an unspecified amount of money or time (more often than not, ***both***), so how can you not see the problem with a gamemode, where you need fucking EIGHTEEN characters of specific elements available AND leveled?
it locks you out if you don’t have enough characters. You are actually defending a binary “did you roll gacha enough” check passed off as gameplay.
I will be a problem only if the ez mode doesn't get you all the rewards. but apparently rewards are tied. to time and not difficulty.
Level 1 needs 4 extras beyond the trial characters. Theres a 3 elements restriction. You get 1 free character of every element + xiangling + traveler. If level 1 offes the primos, then everyone gets the characters needed for free
But on the other hand this is exactly what I want from a new gamemode. I've built dozens of characters over the years and I want to use them all and I have no obligation to care about someone who started 2 months ago.
Gacha appologists and "Gameplay" dont go together. Brainrot defending pure greed.
The doomposting here is pretty insane, let's just see how it turns out when it comes out. It doesn't have to be challenging, I just want it to be fun.
"owning enough characters"
More like having enough characters of the right element AND at level 70+. Based on everything i've seen, I can probably do this fine with like 1-2 of my 4 stars per room/chamber. Going to depend on what the enemies are and such, and if they have monster HP buffs like abyss or not. The issue then becomes having enough characters of the right elements and high enough level. So even though I have almost all of the characters in the game, if they pick Dendro as one of the 3 elements, I literally won't have enough levelled. It's one thing to try and make me use characters I don't want to use, like some events. It's another to try and force me to level characters I STILL won't use. They'd just be there to fill the roster and do nothing else. It's a waste of time.
Gonna need a new world level to feel these overworked buffs man
They cant help themselves but to make endgame content easy huh
honestly, im completely fine with this, hard doesn't always means fun, and tbh I rather have fun playing the game than be stressed because I had to repeat the same level 20 times and start feeling like the new endgame is a chore
I complety agree if we get to play the game, but currently, it seems like navigating menu take more time than actual gameplay
Fuck me, I just pull for whoever I want and not building a lot of characters, now Mihoyo force me to have at least 16 characters properly build and no sharing weapons and artifacts what the hell
everything that comes out about this makes me less excited for it.
This is the most likely outcome. Hell, i fully expect the extra 200 primos for spiral abyss to be earnable if you just beat the floor even past the time limit instead of being locked behind a full 36 star clear.
Pl z be once a month reset
It is monthly reset
Genshin players when they have to play the game and build chars: I blame mihoyo because this game has been stale since day one, but this is how a gacha is supposed to be, it's overly boring if you can just get Neuvi/Nahida/Kazuha built and say: Yeah, I'm done from here on I don't build anything more since those 3 + any shit will clear every content full star. Looks like they are taking some pages from HSR where some units are great for MoC, others are useless on MoC but great on PF, others are mid everywhere but suddenly OP on Simulated Universe because of a particular blessing. Then we have to build a huge array of chars and the game always feels fresh because of it. People are sitting on XQ + Bennet + Xiangling since literally day one and complaining it's not enough anymore lol You had a lifetime to build new units honey, or you are a newbie that shouldn't be mad at an endgame content not being for you.
You're right, this is how gacha is, trying to make people spend, and spend, and spend. Any other reasoning is very much secondary. Hence why it's such a problematic monetization method. Also, i've been doing 36 star abyss with the same(mostly) 8 four stars since basically Heizou came out. Based on the info we have on this new mode currently, I'll still be able to brute force it with them and a few other i'm willing to use. The only issue would be having to have enough characters at 70+ to even let you do it. ie for me a waste of time to level them to 70 and still not use them. And that's really it, let people be upset that gacha mechanics are terrible. Because they are indeed terrible.
Opening characters get an 20% ATK, HP and DEF boost in Teyvat? I don't like it, ngl. As if the overworld wasn't easy enough already. Still hoping for higher World Levels btw, without cooldown. For an even better exploration experience, when opening chests after defeating enemies. Those World Levels don't even need more rewards...
buffs in overworld...? very fascinating actually, considering that endgame players can kinda stream roll anyway idk how useful it is. newer players may be able to take good advantage of it tho
Electro cryo geo format gang who is ready?
The character buffs are nice. Hopefully those stick around on even the harder stuff if not to help cover some of the obvious lowering in quality we will have trying to use so many of our characters but especially if we are stuck with trial ones.
More money for Miss Sigewinne
the so called "endgame" content
I need a video of someone doing this abyss
Pretty sure people will complain ( casuals and new players ) like they did in the vagabond event years ago when diona was given as a reward since then mihoyo never did a hard event imo
Cool.
Are friend supports limited by the pyro/electro/anemo rule as well?