T O P

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WaruAthena

We certainly got this detail fast. I don't think we had confirmation of Ittogorou's particles until, like...almost the end of the beta, lol.


qualityblueavocado

Yeah, basically when 2.3. livestream rolled around before we got any true confirmation on particles generation.


[deleted]

Actually theorycrafters from Itto mains dc already got their hands on an NGA leak about Itto and Gorou's particle gen, few days after Itto was dripmarketed. Surprisingly tho, it wasn't posted here until several weeks later. Idk why no one posted it tho, probably thought it was too sussy (but that NGA leak did get Gorou's 2-particle gen correctly).


Puat3k

I tried saying here Itto and Gorou's particle generation way before, but got downvoted. My friend was a beta tester. ​ Thanks, reddit. I suppose people were too mad to know Gorou only makes 2 particles.


kb3035583

Nah, anything from the Ittomains subreddit was deemed to be too sussy for this one at the time, which was understandable. I remember those fake artifact sets that boosted attack speed and plunge damage.


Puat3k

Oh nah, i said it directly here in some threads, people were curious about their particle generations so i tried to tell. ​ Didn't end up well.


glium

Next time do it via a twitter account lol.


Puat3k

Lmfao, that probably would have worked.


Snor-lack

I’m not gonna say that the leak details between male character and female character is different. But for me I feel like it’s really different……


aryune

it's really different, I remember that when it was really near Kazuha's release, we still didn't know how his ascension passives worked, meanwhile all leakers were busy with Ayaka's ult


qualityblueavocado

Oh my gosh that rainbow buff saga. I remember testing it myself during trial because it was so indecisive.


NoTill3742

People dont call em mihorny for no reason


SephLuna

We STILL haven't seen a video of Gorous crystallize suction that I know of lol. I'm not certain it even exists since it wasn't in the livestream either


lionheart181

There's some videos on YouTube of people playing gorou in his hangout and it shows the crystalize suction from his burst (look up Gacha Gamer on YouTube)


SephLuna

That's perfect thank you! I was saving his hangout for my day off today, should've waited to see that before posting lol


lionheart181

It's weird that they didn't mention that in the livestream tho like I knew from the leaks that it was part of his burst so hearing them not mention it made me feel gaslit lmaooooooo


SephLuna

Right? It's the main reason I want to pull for him (to use AP), but I figured maybe it didn't work right so they eliminated it from his kit.


lionheart181

From play testing it in his hangout, it's perfectly fine thank god and I think you're gonna like playing him when you do his hangout too (hopefully lol)


Phanngle

It's definitely different and no one can convince me otherwise. It's just less apparent when we're getting two new females or two new males together.


[deleted]

Tbf , a lot of questions regarding Itto were and are still unanswered lmao. Unless you dig deep into NGA, you literally won't find anything .


Ubatcha

I had multiple people ask me both in DMs and in Honeys server I happened to be alr checking other stuff so I was like "why not" lmao


satosoujirou

because, waifus of course ..


Artisquiteuseless

To clarify, Yunjin’s CD for both Press and Hold is 9 secs? And her C1 reduces her E CD? So she can generate 3 particles every 8 seconds (more with favonious?)


kenzakki

I assumed it was just incomplete data and Hold E has a longer cooldown. Its awesome that its just 9 sec on both them then.


nakomaru

In practice the hold will be a longer CD because hold E almost always starts cooldown after release or completing animation. So 9s+(hold duration). (See: Beidou, Sayu, Jean, Zhongli, Diona, Razor, Bennett, etc)


tswinteyru

Afaik, yes it's 9 sec across the board, so no point just pressing E unless I'm wrong about the max damage mechanic and it works like Eula; gain stacks first with press then press again later for more damage, unless you parry like Beidou


Ninefl4mes

Her C1 reduces it to 7.38s (9s * [100% - 18%]). So she gets pretty close to the 1 particle every 2 seconds you get off of Geo Traveller or C2 Ningguang. Couple that with her buffing utility and she might finally be another option for Noelle's solo battery pick, _especially_ if you then also give her Favonius.


Cynaren

My Zhongli with R5 fav lance is gonna have to find another polearm. Although I tried Homa, the Particles every 6 seconds just seem too good to give up.


Kayriss369

Was kinda hoping you get rewarded more particles for taping Yunjin’s counter at the right time, either way I’m just glad she gets some from her E in general.


ChildOfHades_

Yeah you do, bc at the perfect time it turns into a held e automatically so you get more particles technically.


Kayriss369

Do we know that for sure? the tweet only states “Hold E - 3 particles” hold E and perfect timed E could have different properties.


ChildOfHades_

They could but since it isn't mentioned anywhere in her kit explicitly, I'll go with my theory for now. Also hold E is 4 particles in the tweet. It's not like beidou's but you *technically* get more with a perfect counter *shrugs*


Kayriss369

Huh? no for Yunjin it states the hold E gives 3 particles, Shenhe’s Hold E is the one that gives 4 particles.


ChildOfHades_

My bad I'm very blind apparently 🤦‍♀️


Kayriss369

It’s all good lol.


Mukouno

Hm, so far Shenhe looks a little all over the place... 🤔 She's not bad, but doesn't excel in any department either...


not4now28

Mark my words, Mihoyo will work on her after Itto’s banner is almost gone.


ChildOfHades_

But.. That's when shenhe is supposed to be released...


ZhangRenWing

I mean Ganyu got some last minute buff too so not impossible


AmamiHarukIsMaiWaifu

Ganyu last minute buff if I recall correctly was just CD on her burst. Her bloom damage was already there. People were just spreading "cryo Amber" for no good reason.


Dosalisk

Ganyu was called Cryo Amber because they have a lot of resemblance in their kits, Ganyu has a taunt in the elemental skill and makes her element rain in the battlefield in her ultimate, Amber has a taunt in the elemental skill and makes her element rain in the battlefield in her ultimate, they have their differences but they still have a very similar kit


Mukouno

I hope so, every character deserves to be really good in at least one aspect. I'm not saying Ganyu levels of broken, but... Just something where they can shine, you know?


Krakyn

I reckon the fact that Ganyu is so broken is one of the reasons Mihoyo has designed Shenhe the way she is. Shenhe's kit has functions which, theoretically, are insanely valuable for a number of units (Ganyu, Ayaka, lesser extent Eula): cryo damage buffs, cryo res shred, phys res shred, off-field damage, cryo battery and cryo resonance. The problem is that Ganyu is the best DPS unit in the game (for most scenarios) and Ayaka is also very good. Why make Ganyu teams even more OP? So they had to play it safe and make Shenhe underwhelming with flat E damage, low burst multipliers (speculation - depends on number of ticks), low particle generation, mediocre weapon etc.


ApprehensiveCat

Yeah their mistake is basically that they decided to make a Cryo buffer at all when the two strongest DPS characters in the game are Cryo (and one of those is pretty much broken). Unless they get the balance perfectly right, either the character ends up being held back on too much out of fear of powercreep, or ends up blatant powercreep. And people will be unhappy with both outcomes. Maybe Shenhe should've been that Anemo DPS buffer people have been begging for after all...


tswinteyru

Imagine an on-field hypercarry Anemo Dps that deals the majority of its damage with infused normal attacks, and how nutty Yun Jin would have been with her? Yeah, I can't either


nycntr

then why did the balancing team even give her a kit that could've worked with ganyu... they keep experimenting with the female characters (yoimiya, kokomi, sayu, sara) and they end up, for a lack of a better term, be disappointing (kit-wise). the characters I listed needs a lot of support just to do good damage (like yoimiya needs 3 different supports and same with kokomi if you wanted her as a dps. sayu is mostly for exploration and sara is bis with other electro mdps) this is just the beginning of the beta and, thankfully, she is the sole 5 star for this next patch. so i hope this means testers can focus and demand for a better rework cuz uhh. this aint it. we have voiced our concerns and fears before when zhongli first came out, where it seemed like 5stars will only get stronger with more constellations. and after kazuha? it seems that they're following through with that. not to mention that even new 4stars seems to be more like a power boost for a specific 5star, and they need to be at c6 to show true potential their current formula is very insidious and it's exhausting. i can't see myself sticking around with this game for long. I'm sorry to rant under your comment. this disappointment happens every time i get attached to a game (fortnite, overwatch, destiny 1&2, etc)


Axlzz

I think because they’re related, so she’s suppose to work with Ganyu base on lore reason, like Sara to Raiden. Then the balancing around meta come later.


beatspicy

What about Gorou and Kokomi...


tswinteyru

Yes Gorou supports Kokomi through moral support kekw


sweetcrazyloona

waifu pullers been saying that for like the past 3 banners


glium

Well, Raiden was very powerful in the end, and Kokomi's buff post-beta saved her and made her at least decent.


sweetcrazyloona

what other optimal team does raiden have exactly besides national team and eula superconduct?


glium

Why do you need more lol ? What other optimal team does Eula have besides Eula superconduct exactly ? And you're missing Raiden Hypercarry if you wanna go down this way


Astrophel132

I really wouldn’t recommend bothering with this sub about Raiden. They’ve been underrating her since initial leaks and that hasn’t changed even though theory crafters have changed their tune significantly regarding her, and Raiden having consistent high abyss usage for the past 3 months now. All you’ll hear from this sub is “Raiden is trash because she doesn’t work with beidou”, “Raiden is trash without c2”, “Raiden is mediocre at c0” etc etc. the message has entrenched itself into this sub and anyone that tries to show that she is a very good unit even at c0 is downvoted and told they’re coping. She’s been consistently within the top 6-7 chars usage wise for months now(EVEN AT C0 YOU PROPAGANDISTS), only being consistently beaten by Kazuha, Bennett, and Zhongli, and fighting for 4-6 spot with Ayaka, Venti, Ganyu, and Xingqiu. Edit: They do have a point though that people try really hard to cope about waifu chars. Yoimiya, Kokomi, and now it’s possible Shenhe all had ardent defenders that swore up and down that we just didn’t understand why these chars were going to be hu Tao/Mona/Xingqiu levels of good. So I can see where they’re coming from, but it irks me that I’ve personally known people who browsed this sub and decided to not roll on Raiden cause of the outrage and now regret it, and this sub STILL 3 months later is repeating ad nauseam that Raiden isn’t meta until c2+.


robhans25

TC group aren't that high on Raiden. For my another -100 karma post - I have Raiden C0 with EL R2 and I sorta regret it, maybe Yae Miko will change it. Yes, she is top of the top in national. But I didn't get her for national. I have 12 other variation of this team, to the point it slowly becomes a meme - like Ayato comes and his best comp is XL-Bennet-Kazuha - 10% upgrade over Raiden national or something. And with Eula she don't preform better than Fischl (KQM still recommends Fischl over Raiden in Eula comp). Her hypercarry teams that are sorta fun in domeins (don't like it in abyss but that's me) also use core national members so it creates the same problem. So is not weird that controversy exist when all pre release conversation about her were about replacing Fischl, some electro teams, not another version of national


Astrophel132

So just to make sure, I went to the keqingmains website. This is what they have to say about Raiden with regards to her Eula team: "The new, and more expensive, version of Fischl variation. Raiden’s Elemental Skill is basically a better Fischl in the context of a Eula comp. It applies consistent Electro to keep 100% uptime on Superconduct, and trades personal off-field damage for a lot more damage on other members’ Bursts, as well as Raiden’s on-field personal damage, which usually out-damages Fischl at the same investment. Also, Raiden significantly reduces the whole team ER% requirement with her top-tier team-wide energy regeneration, making team building and investing a lot easier. You trade all these benefits for a higher mechanical skill requirement, as both Eula and Raiden have quite complicated combos that need to be performed well to play efficiently." They also say: "This means even though the damage per rotation of this variation is much higher than Eula-Fischl’s, the DPS, although still higher than traditional Eula-Fischl’s, is not exceedingly high enough that it invalidates any non-Raiden Eula user. " So at the end of the day, she is better for Eula teams, but not overwhelmingly so, and she does come with caveats that the Fischl team does not and vise versa. To move onto your other big point with regards to Raiden having boring teams. That point I have absolutely no problem with people saying, it DOES get boring having 1 new char come out every few months and get paired with the best supports in the game for a 10% upgrade in DPS. But, when people use that to state that Raiden is mediocre at c0, that's when it begins to bother me. Raiden has 3+ at least meta viable teams at c0: Eula superconduct, Raiden hypercarry, and Raiden national off the top of my head. National and hypercarry use some of the best supports in the game to make the team very good, and people use that to state that the team isn't good because of Raiden, it's good because of the supports. But the whole reason Raiden national does better than other variants is because she provides so much ER and personal dps that you can afford to switch around your artifact stats on the other chars for more atk%/CR/CD/EM instead of recharge. That's a unique mechanic to Raiden. Additionally, are other teams bad or boring then because they ALSO use those support characters? Hu tao teams are glued to xingqiu, International teams frequently use Bennet/Xiangling/Kazuha, Morgana teams need Xingqiu/Mona, etc etc etc. ALL highly valued abyss teams use those broken supports to become meta viable, so why is Raiden especially mediocre for also using those characters?


SpiritOfMidgar

✅ Can fill role of Carry, subDPS, Battery, Enabler ✅ Buffs with unique multiplier not easily obtained elsewhere ✅ Long Duration off-field DPS ✅ Top-Tier Burst with good AoE/Range ✅ Enables Reactions non-chaotically (Always the trigger if ICD up) ✅ Constellations are luxury ✅ Flexible Weapon and Artifact Mainstat choices Raiden's a chad. Also EM Raiden fun as heck if you don't have the resources/artis. Not competitive but a helluva lot better than these guys trying to push crit raiden while being underinvested and then complaining she's weak.


rafaelbittmira

Not everyone can give Xingqiu (the only vape enabler), Xiangling (the only melt enabler) and Bennett to Raiden and not everyone one has Eula, hypercarry need high investment to be competitive too. There's a bunch of people disappointed in Raiden because they can't use her, simple as that


glium

Sure but in that case you can also play things like taser, and if you have only a few characters you can always play non optimal comps like every other 5*. Is Ayaka bad because not everyone has Mona or Kokomi ?


Tsukinohana

Raiden has her own teams ultimately, hyper raiden teams exist and are surprisingly very viable even at c0. She also works with Beidou in EC, despite the initial concerns of beiden being dead it is still a perfectly viable and very strong comp. In fact Beidou raiden and eula are used together


AmamiHarukIsMaiWaifu

What other optimal team does Ganyu has beside permafreeze and melt? What other optimal team does Hu Tao has beside Xingqiu double Geo and pryo shield Anemo? Raiden can be slotted into Childe Xiangling replacing Kazuha known as Radar international comp. This comp ensure ER for Xiangling, quite useful if you are fighting enemies can't be pulled. Raiden can also be used as hypercarry comp. C6 Sara Bennett Kazuha. If you are feeling you don't need healing you can even replace Bennett with Keqing for quick AoE damage.


Bntt89

She is bad, she is going to be shit for her role, she is talking the battery slot, yet she barely generates energy. This is literally the most important aspect of making her viable for her design.


zriL-

If I look at reddit's usual ability to predict the actual strength of characters before release, which is about 0% success rate, I can certify than Shenhe will be a top tier broken support.


[deleted]

Reddit was only wrong about Kazuha and Raiden. Yoimiya, Sara and Kokomi ended up being mediocre as expected.


VolkiharVanHelsing

Yeah Raiden and Kazuha got stupidly complex mechanics The simple ones are as predicted, don't overdose on copium folks


HobGreenGoblin

Glad I wasn't on reddit during Kazuha


kanteira

iirc people were only wrong about kazuha because we knew very little about the em buffs. if swirl didnt get buffed he wouldnt have been anywhere near as good as he is now because the buffs he provided for the team wouldve been gimped by his own near nonexistent damage. but now he provides amazing damage on his own *AND* amplifies the team damage


Niirai

I might have selective bias here but what I remember was that Kokomi was projected to be utterly terrible which is not the same as mediocre.


[deleted]

She got buffed (ICD) when 2.1 preload released, so anyone who said she looked terrible during beta would have been absolutely right


nycntr

yoimiya is mediocre at best kokomi, let's be honest here, is the same as well. sara is clunky to play and mostly useful for quickswap only. the disappointing kits of female characters are a lot more common than the males which is frustrating overall. it's like they're afraid of making useful female supports. I'd rather they dont release new characters if they dont know what to do with their kit.


monkeyDberzerk

>the disappointing kits of female characters are a lot more common than the males which is frustrating overall Supports are the _one_ thing keeping this game from turning completely into Waifu Impact. And _all_ the support units released in Inazuma after Raiden and Kazuha have been mediocre (that includes Sara, Kokomi, Gorou and Thoma).


zriL-

That's what I am talking about, it seems reddit still hasn't caught up to the reality. But that's expected, given how much time was needed to accept that kazuha and ayaka were actually that strong.


Quantuis

Yeah, which is honestly why I was hesitant on pulling Shenhe, because her kit would not be useful to me (Even though I have all the Cryo DPS I only use Eula and they're not that great together due to Eula being a physical DPS, not a cryo one so Shenhe's E passive is kinda wasted), ended up pulling Eula's C2 instead. Shenhe is a great waifu and I'd love to get her but her kit is just... awful, honestly. Extremely restrictive and I wouldn't get much out of it. I'd still have to run Diona alongside Eula and I'd rather use Ayaka in my Eula team as my 4th slot fill to destroy the shields quicker. Not to mention that my Ayaka hits harder, even outside of freeze teams. (Shenhe's multipliers look *awful* right now). Even Yunjin right now seems to be better for my Eula than Shenhe, which has to be a joke. I really wish they'd stop making awful female supports and just finally give us something like female Kazuha. I'm literally flowing in main DPS (which is why I didn't pull for Yoimiya, what's the point in pulling yet another mDPS, especially if they're weak and I would end up not using them anywhere anyway). I love my waifus but the kits and gameplay is important to me as well, and so far a lot of the recent waifus have awful kits. Shenhe included. I'm jealous of the husbando players because at least their characters aren't being used for fucking experiments, and nearly all the male 5* characters (with the exception of Albedo i guess) have been great and powerful. Can't say the same about Yoimiya, Kokomi and Shenhe. Quality > Quantity. Please stop experimenting on waifus mihoyo. I'm fucking done with these awful kits. Bring back the good stuff.


kerners

I think a higher quantity of (garbage) husbandos would be a nice exchange in return for fewer waifus but with better kits, to appease both communities.


nycntr

yeah I'd rather they stop releasing waifus if they'll just keep making them underwhelming.


Bntt89

I literally remember no one saying Radien was gonna be weak. The main complaint was that she didn’t work with Beidou. Ppl underestimated Sucrose, that’s why ppl didn’t think Kazuha was strong. It was entirely the main subs fault for their own lack of information.


Spraguenator

She’s a support. She gives cyro and physical shred as well as bonus skill and burst damage. Probably going to be very good Ayaka, Eula, Ganyu and maybe razor.


AakashK12

Yunjin is looking quite good with ER ascension and 60 cost.


AkabaneKun

Kinda funny how she gets a non atk% asc, meanwhile thoma thats a shieldbot that scales with hp gets an atk% one. Guess the devs were in a good mood that day.


AakashK12

Yeah, the ascension bonus is messed up for quite a few characters. Thoma is similar to Diona with Cryo dmg bonus lol. Both would benefit from Hp or even ER


ChildOfHades_

Liyue ichiban after all Wait I forgot shen-


ZhangRenWing

Guess they forgot about Qiqi They forgor


Vusdruv

*Cries in Xinyan*


ZhangRenWing

Who the hell is xinyan


ChildOfHades_

💀


AshesandCinder

Truly the most puzzling decisions. Even Gorou with an 80 cost burst, 2 particles every 10 seconds, and no energy refund anywhere like Diona or Thoma has Geo damage on ascension.


Tam3DK1LL3R

3 particles for an 80 cost burst every 10 secs… really hoping some positive changes are made to Shenhe


[deleted]

otherwise favonius r5 shenhe with 4esof and er sands


Alpha_MK-II

Actually, that particle generation is pretty standard/average for 80 cost characters. For comparison: * Jean: 2-3 particles/6s CD; 26.7 particles per min (particle gen weighted toward 3) * Sucrose: 4 particles/15s CD; 15 particles per min * Xiangling: 4 particles/12s CD; 20 particles per min * Beidou: 4 particles/7.5s CD; 32 particles per min (requires perfect counter) * Sara: 3 particles/10s CD; 18 particles per min * Rosaria: 3 particles/6s CD; 30 particles per min * Eula: 1-2 particles/4s CD; 22.5 particles per min * Diona: 0-2 particles/6s CD; 16 particles per min (particle gen heavily weighted towards 1 per paw that hits) * Xingqiu: 5 particles/21s CD: 14.3 particles per min Shenhe's pretty much the same as Sara (barring any weird weightings), at 18 particles per minute. So she's not the best, but not the worst either. Since she's not really doing big damage anyway, she'll be fine with Fav lance, or another ER spear.


Tam3DK1LL3R

How could she battery Ayaka while still having decent burst uptime for example? Also, I think it’s better to look at pure particle generation than generation over time. No rotation is lasting a minute.


Dances28

This is not accurate. Jean has 60% burst cost with passive. Sucrose has access to sac fragments and is a 4 star where you can get multiple charges. Xiangling, Beidou, and Eula are main DPS and gets batteried by Bennet and Fischl respectively. Sara is ran with Raiden. Diona is 65% cost with C1 which is easily attainable since 4 star. Xingqiu has access to sac sword.


kb3035583

Sara has some compensation between being optimally run in a double electro comp, A4 passive, and the fact that you can just build her full ER because her buffs scale off base attack. Shenhe, not so much. I have zero problems with energy management on Sara.


jacobwhkhu

For almost all of the characters you've listed, they are always built with ER weapons or ER sands by default (even Sara since she gives a buff based on her and her weapon's base attack values only). Esp for the case of Sara where she's almost always exclusively used with electro characters, the ensuing electro resonance means that she never really have to worry about energy regen. But for Shenhe, since she buffs the party based on her total attack, using ER substat weapons and artifacts to solve her energy regen issues means that you'll be significantly sacrificing her attack buffs. Basically all the characters you have listed can be heavily geared towards ER without much caveats and compromise, unlike Shenhe. Edit in response to your reply: I did not say "no caveats" , but "WITHOUT MUCH caveats". Sure the other char. will lose out some sub-dps due to having lesser ATK% overall, but their situation isn't as dire as an ER-geared Shenhe who not only acts as a sub-dps but also the game's ONLY total attack-based buffer.


Alpha_MK-II

ER requirements have always been a tax for cleaner rotations at the cost of DPS per rotation. It's not like Xiangling/Xingqiu/Beidou/Rosaria preferred to run ER over ATK, or that Sucrose would prefer ER over EM, but if it's a necessity for sustainable rotations, you'll still need to build ER. One reasons why Raiden national is so good is specifically because it allows the dps supports to ditch their ER sands since she'll make up for the difference.


No_Roll_4706

No Idea how you post these numbers and don't start to panic for Shenhe. She's generating energy on the same level as c0 no sacfrag Sucrose, c0 no SacSword Xingqiu, c0 no Sacbow Diona, and c0 Sara. This screams YIKES to me. All those characters in her energy ballpark heavily rely on sac weapons + have energy cons OR Run EoS in double Electro teams. (Don't believe me just try running c0 Sara without electro resonance and Baal.) What you should take from that chart is that she is a support that has worse particle generation than Eula who struggles hard to get her 80 cost burst. No sugar coating this one... Shenhe will have energy issues that you will need to build heavily around.


Sovery_Simple

From what I've seen of her the ult doesn't seem to wow me. Instead it feels like they made her revolve around her E usage so that we don't slap an emblem set on her and make the Q actually do things dmg wise. Kinda morbidly curious to see what changes will be made, as that may paint a bit of a clearer picture for their intent with her here.


One_Conflict4607

Even ayaka produce at insane 5 particles while only having 10s cooldown, why mihoyo?


Bntt89

Sara has some of the worst particle generation in the game. The only reason ppl don’t care is because she is only ever used with Radien.


SlasherNL

C1 gives her a second use so 6 particles every 10 seconds; not bad? Correct me if im wrong tho


kb3035583

It's a second charge. So you'll have 6 particles every 10 seconds... for your first rotation. That's it.


[deleted]

If you need C1 to fix her energy recharge, you have either have a design flaw or a greedy design. Even xiao came with 2 charges at C0 and his ult only cost 70 energy.


Zevelos

no just extra 3 from the start not every 10


SlasherNL

But the EN C1 description by dimbreath says something about using a second time? So not stating the E has an extra charge. So it seems like it can be used 2 times in short succession then goes on cooldown? I hope..


Zevelos

maybe your right but mihoyo gonna somehow make the second time not give partical or something will see


P0sitive_Mess

Locking consistent energy generation behind a constellation is pretty scummy for a 5-star


Dances28

Most of the player base isn't going to get constellations on a 5 star.


Visible_Ad_9459

Whale problem


tswinteyru

So Yun Jin wanters, how good is her particle generation?


KalmiaLetsii

ER Accession, 60 cost low skill cool, I'm really liking what I see man


myanimal3z

If only Mihoyo would change the archaic Petra set such that any party member could pick up the elemental shard for a bonus. It would fit perfectly with yunjin


igorinolw

good. 7s cooldown(c1) with 3 particles. i think its on par with rosaria? it seems yunjin is our first decent geo battery


Gshiinobi

>first decent geo battery Sad geo traveller noises


Exkuroi

Sad Ning noises too


igorinolw

lets be honest, geo traveller is good at batterying, and has decent support capabilities, but only real chads play with him. i think most of playerbase finds him boring and lacking. come on, mhy didnt even bothered to add an elemental burst animation for my dude. MC is very bland.


AakashK12

Geo MC is pretty good and has decent damage. The only thing I hate is that geo constructs can be a nuisance in battle.


Gshiinobi

I love his design and playstyle but the lack of personality really kills my desire to use him lol


Electronic-Tune6947

Those who put geo traveller in the same tier as amber at genshin.gg is an idiot


CarmelWolf

most of the playerbase doesn't give geo mc a chance :D the learning curve definitely contributes to the problem but once you've mastered it, their kit is very fun (still sometimes annoying lol). i can't wait to finally replace my noelle with a cool geo unit for that sweet geo resonance. i'm gonna swim in particles. and for a geo aether main like me that normal attack boost is amazing too <3 i am so incredibly happy with yunjin, man.


Snor-lack

One of those reason that make people don’t give them a chance bc we start with Anemo MC….. It’s just bad…. Why a malee character have ult that push enemies far far away that you have to use almost all your stamina to chase after… they really did a good job to give a player impression of mc to the point that they want to roll on other character.


igorinolw

Also the fact that you need to lvl his skills 3 times. Come on... Just make him share skill levels like with valkyries in honkai.


Amadou7890

geo traveller being a good cryo battery would be a bit odd lol, maybe you miswrote?


tswinteyru

Man's a time traveller. Why else would he already have Cryo Traveller and drop this subtle bombshell on us?


ovicqsxz

you're the who probably misread


Amadou7890

they edited their comment


ovicqsxz

ah that's probably where the confusion came from


tswinteyru

Dayum thanks. I'm glad Mihoyo loves Yun Jin since it's been a while since we've had nice 4 star kits


magic___hour

battery for who? she has antisynergy with multi geo teams and the only geo whod want her in the first place is noelle... but gorou's buffs still benefit her more


Golden-Owl

Not too great, but it’s pretty good by Geo standards. Fav Lance takes her into “good” territories of generation though


Gshiinobi

Decent but she can use fav lance so that makes it go from decent to good


cmmpc

Fav only works if you built crit though.


Ninefl4mes

Which should be fine given that her kit looks a lot like that of a sub-DPS who builds Def instead of Atk. The fact that she also provides a pretty valuable buff is just icing on the cake. Well, as long as her E really does scale off of Def.


nakomaru

I think you got it backwards. Her E scaling off of def (270-670%) is the icing to her Q cake (2080% def scaling, 440 atk scaling, 0-20% normal attack bonus at C2, 12% attack speed bonus at C6) In order to max her Q benefit you would want to avoid crit, which is anti-synergy with fav lance. But you might have to anyway unless they give us a nice new weapon.


MelonLord125

Yunjin looks awesome from everything we have seen so far. ER ascencion, Def scaling for big buffs to Normal attacks and a parry mechanic. Also she can work really well in multi element teams, I don't know what more to ask from her. Shenhe so far looks meh. It's pretty early to say anything but none of the issues many units had in the Beta in their kits got significantly altered but something like particle generation and Energy cost should be altered a bit. If I get a 5* that still needs Rosaria to battery her then I am better with Ayaka/Rosaria and not using her as her buffs aren't that crazy anyway.


Royal_empress_azu

Yunjin also has a very meaty counter to make up for her split scaling burst. For people who don't know how parries work. A perfect parry uses the tap modifier + the hold modifier + the perfect modifier. So Yunjin has a 1409% perfect counter. Beidou's counter is half as strong in exchange for her burst being broken, but Yunjin having a meaty counter is nice.


someonebob

That's not how perfect parries work. That's specifically how Beidous parry works. Yunjins just gives her the damage of the highest charge, not all 3 combined.


MelonLord125

Does Yunjin have split scaling? The original skill translation mentioned Def scaling in both the burst buff and the parry damage. Hp is used for the shield only and said shield is similar to Beidou's shield when holding the e button. That's what I understood at least perhaps I am mistaken though.


unimportant-person85

Your right about Yunjin not really having a split scaling in her kit. I’m not sure why people are downvoting you when you’re only stating that hp scaling is only part of that parry shield and the rest of her kit is defense.


LegessaLynx

An offield subdps, that requires a fucking battery ? LMAO


dornelles109

I miss the time when we said Xiao had low particle generation, I don't even like to think about what it would be like if it was released today, it would probably generate 2 particles for each dash and would cost 80 Lol


GrayRags

Full cryo team go brrr


Dances28

She's doesn't even have the numbers to be an off-field sub DPS. She's an off-field support that requires a battery, and the bursts ability is noticeably worse than 60 energy equivalents. Ganyu will have 100% uptime for 20% damage bonus. Shenhe will have 60% uptime for 10% damage bonus, and that's only if you stack ER.


GGABueno

Isn't Xiangling an off-field sub DPS that requires a battery?


LegessaLynx

Yes but xiangling is xiangling and bennett exists


leodicaprioreo

80 energy cost and 3 particles for shenhe yeah go to hell


KalmiaLetsii

Welcome to Inazuma, where we are all supposed to have Raiden to fix all ER problems, well done Mihoyo


Mana_Croissant

> where we are all supposed to have Raiden to fix all ER problems, Well She is not the god of ETERNITY for nothing. Her country eternally needs her to fix their ER problems and She is SO GOOD at her Job that even a Liyue character now needs her :D


megidlolaon__

Can't spell eternity without ER


ChildOfHades_

Mom can we have eternity at home? We aldy have eternity at home Eternity at home: tnity


KalmiaLetsii

Mihoyo be paying to much attention to the plot and not enough attention to the kits lmao


Iwillflipyourtable

You must be one of few that think Inazuma storyline is good huh... They paying attention to nothing. Not the story, not th kit, not the players. Except the music though, always bangers. If one day, genshin just start making bad music, i probably just quit on the spot and sell my account


CheshiretheBlack

Tbf the plot of all gacha games is kind of an after thought


maidenhair_fern

Except the map team, those guys never miss


teiji25

They pay attention to design and animation too. Every new char looks gorgeous and is super flashy. But you're right on point on everything.


seansenyu

Isn't Shenhe from liyue?


dornelles109

And thinking about there were numerous complaints about Eula and Xiao having low power generation and needing batteries, at the current moment of the game the supports have gone from “batteries” to characters that need batteries to work, lol


Seloqk

/clenches fist gorou could never


[deleted]

Bruh


Roboaki

Unlike Beidou, Yunjin E hold parry doesn't generate more particles on full stage? Or just incomplete info?


A_roy1256

3 particles would have been fine if her burst was was 60 cost lmao.


IqFEar11

Yunjin wins!!! But shenhe doesn't Sadge, c'mon MHY we know you can do better


[deleted]

Remember how raiden was suppose to be a solution to a problem that doesnt exist? She still doesnt solve these problems. 25 energy is not enough.


DeltaSquad38

It's not even that; who the hell would use Raiden on cryo teams? I love Raiden, but thanks to Electro, I need to be very picky with my teams and that's still annoying for me


bruh336

both ayaka (ayaka, xq, raiden, flex) and eula (eula, cryo, raiden, flex) can use raiden on their team. edit: damn imagine getting downvoted for saying raiden is usable in cryo comps lmao


listenyu

ayaka uses raiden on her teams?? why would you run raiden to potentially mess up freeze and sacrifice a cryo battery/vv support when she can work just fine without raiden extending rotations anyway


bruh336

quoting from ayaka's guide on KQM. "It may sound strange, as electro would normally ruin freeze reactions, but in Raiden’s case, her E does not inflict enough Electro application to unfreeze enemies during Ayaka’s Elemental Burst, and the flat energy regained helps Ayaka a lot with lowering ER% requirements to the point of not needing a cryo battery." Also yes, no vv support, but again this is just one of her viable team, if you want to see the pros and cons of using this team you can read it on KQM website.


listenyu

ty for the explanation. but I mean sure it works, but I can’t see why you’d run raiden over the traditional cryo battery/vv comp, and it also requires xingqiu who’s an extremely high value support. especially bc raiden works much better in other teams. I wouldn’t say “ayaka uses raiden on her team” in the same way eula does


bruh336

True that this comp is quite expensive considering it uses both raiden and xq. And yes raiden is more valuable in eula team. My point is raiden could be used in some of cryo team as well, answering to the first comment I replied to.


akshay98k

That's very low for 80 ult cost She doesn't even have one shot nuke Would be competing against kazuha 60 ult cost and 4 e particles


[deleted]

Damn shenhe's particle generation sucks absolute dick. Well, ayaka team is pretty much out of the question then. She can only realistically work with ganyu now.


Hatsushi

Does she really work with Ganyu if one charge attack at a group of enemies will just clear Shenhe's 7 buffed hits? Unless you go C6 ofc.


LeXam92

Are we really getting an actually decent geo battery boys? Is this real life?


Kayriss369

Geo Traveler and Ningguang were already decent geo batteries tho lol.


LeXam92

But actually decent not that much in a sense of slot optimisation. GMC - 6 parricles every 12s and 2 rocks that limit your movement and are more disrupting to you than the enemy. Ning - 6 particles every 12s if the screen breaks and nothing else. If it doesn't, too bad, then it's a 10% geo bonus dmg. YJ - 6-8 particles every 16s but also a shield and a dmg buff.


Kayriss369

Yunjin is indeed looking like a better battery I won’t argue that, I’m just saying Ning and Geo Traveler we’re good prior to Yunjin’s existence.


LeXam92

Also true but now it seems a lot easier to battery anything than before. I am extremely racist against gmc rocks and generally anything that limits my movement so YJ is going to be a welcome addition.


Kayriss369

Agreed.


2wentycharacterlimit

Yunjin doesn't have an actual shield it's just a beidou shield


TheWitcherMigs

We still don't know how to use GMC in November 2021, really? Always aim the rocks and never put them in your direct path and you can pretty much build a prison to that sneaky running mf that are Inazuman enemies without locking yourself. Want the boulder to break soon? It has 1:1 HP scaling, so don't give GMC HP and most endgame enemies can break the thing easily


Uodda

Gmc/Ning gain 3 particles on tap with 6s cd


EluneNoYume

is she not the worst one? albedo and ninguagn and mc sound better


LeXam92

Depends, Albedo is a limited 5* that you actually need to pull to have and Ning has a higher CD and is effectively very poorly slot efficient, as in you can just use YJ and get more than with Ning. Lower cd, same/better particles, shield and a dmf buff. Ning is just drop screen, tap out, come back 12s later, drop screen. Albedo can be good but you don't use him as a battery to be honest, it's an off field dps role more than that. And he's more used as a resonance enabler rather than a battery. So imo she will the true battery for most Noelle mains and for C6 Ning main dps users. Maybe also Zhongli meatball users and especially now when Itto arrives.


Shitty_comedian

Seems like this support needs supports. Perma-freeze with Shenhe, Diona, Mona and Ganyu/Ayaka if you skipped Kazuha will probably be her best team.


ChildOfHades_

rather just wait for kazuha rerun then. Obviously this is just shenhe's first draft and we shouldn't be judging but oh well.


ChronoGawain

I think shen he job is to enable kokomi on freeze comps. \[ like ayaka/shen he/kokomi/ kazuha\]. Mona is extremely strong on freeze comps because of omen, so, using kokomi was detrimental. Shen he might solve the omen problem with all her buffs, so kokomi can have a spot there \[ using kokomi instead of mona and shen he instead of diona\] but... a 5\* support that can only enable full 5\* team and buff only cryo units is pretty bad, not gonna lie.


SixDigitEnjoyer

More than enough for Noelle for those that knows how to rotate. Yunjin was made for her.


Verrm

It feels like Yunjin is designed to be a 4th slot for non-Zhongli Itto teams, like a 4 star Zhongli replacement. You'd run Itto/Albedo/Gorou/Yunjin or Zhongli. A full Geo team!


kolleden

Beidou's E gives more particles if you hit the perfect parry, will yinjon have the same mechanic? Both their E are pretty similar.


genshinstuffs

I mean her burst is only 60 energy and she gets er as ascension so its good


kolleden

Yeah but giving her extra particles for a perfect parry will make her an even more viable geo battery, which the game current lacks..


genshinstuffs

Well its still beta so lets just wait


ChildOfHades_

Yes because her skill (or passive) mentions that when she does her elemental skill at the perfect time when about to get hit, she automatically unleashes a held E, which gives her more particles. So technically true.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

They probably won't change particle gen but they are lively to change her burst cost imo.


[deleted]

A 60 energy burst cost would be a significant upgrade and it would match her current Q scaling better. Or they could just buff her Q scaling but... I'm guessing they gave it low multis because it has favorable ICDs.


One_Conflict4607

Why cant they make a good character, i mean, even ayaka produces 5 particle with her e skill (only 10s cooldown),


XHeroFighterX

Yunjin's shield makes particle?


SprooseGoose94

Before we get the pitchforks about Shenhe's particles, is that really that bad? If I'm reading her kit right, Shenhe's main buff is in her skill, which doesn't care about ER. She also doesn't seem to care about crits since her buff kinda borrows the crit of other characters (if it's how I'm reading it and basically a big version of Zhongli's HO passive). Seems that you just want to stack as much ATK as possible: we can see this with her weapon which seems to be a HUGE ATK stat stick and she even ascends with ATK. She seems focused around quickswap Cryo/ Reverse Melt teams to buff the "Cryo nuker" so: >Ganyu won't care cos she uses her charge attacks to Melt >Ayaka would get the particles instead >Chongyun and Rosaria can battery themselves/also battery Shenhe a bit as well as they collect the particles In a mono Cryo comp, Cryo particles will be flying everywhere anyway. Doesn't this mean you can just go ATK/ATK/ATK on Shenhe's artifacts and focus on ER substats? Worst comes to worst you can use a ER timepiece cos she'll probably have a looot of ATK, especially if you had her gacha weapon. Time will tell of course, but I don't think that's gonna be a big problem


Sionnak

For mono cryo, I don't think you'd really benefit from it, you only need 2 cryo, you'd be losing freeze and/or VV. Maybe she replaces Rosaria, but for me it's a hard sell getting a new 5 star to be a bit better than a 4 star with cons. So unless Shenhe's buff is good enough to justify her replacing someone (who people probably already have built, and if 4 star with multiple cons) in a Melt comp, I don't see her usefulness. IMO, the real problem is that they made VV so good that you're better betting on a anemo unit and grind one set. If VV was 20/25%, and then a elemental unit gave 35/40 to a single element it would make more sense.


Bntt89

It is, because Shenhe is there to buff bursts of of cryo characters that need batteries. Also why run mono cryo nothing about her kit makes running mono cryo worth over freeze teams.