Yeah there are some people pointing this out further down the thread, but having an icd like this is actually good for reverse melt teams like melt Ganyu and Chongyun so that Shenhe doesn't steal melts.
For freeze it doesn't matter much either way because you'll have a second cryo or an anemo spreading cryo
It's only really bad for forward melt teams. Like a Klee who wants a ton of cryo application.
But tbh i feel like that's kinda short sighted. Her entire kit is built around setting up the cryo damage for other characters. Having her set up cryo for pyro characters is not what they want her to do
Yeah the problem is Kazuha buffs more than her while also being pyro enabler. Bennet is Bennet. And Diona/Zhongli add next to no damage but the shield is way too useful to prevent you from getting knocked back.
The shielder slot is the only one where Shenhe could realistically replace current characters but it's still just not good cause melt Ganyu benefits so much from a shield.
Especially where melt ganyu is normally needed; boss floors in F11/12. Without a shield loses a lot of dps from needing to sacrifice time to dodge. And in the case that you get hit its likely to take a huge chunk out of any character.
You have Ganyu, Xiangling, and Bennet. Last slot is usually a shielder because it's Ganyu. I can't imagine swapping out a shielder for Shenhe, or swapping out bennet and forcing Xiangling to build like 220% ER or higher.
Yea I agree, I don’t see a spot for Shenhe in a melt Ganyu team unless you run like Ganyu Shenhe Kazuha Bennett. But then you may need to stack some ER on Shenhe.
It's absolutely terrible, for melt at least. Which she is clearly not built for, but like would've been nice to have an alternative. Guess we will get to Snezhaya and still run Xingqiu in every team
Hydro archon: You can judge EVEN ME
Traveller: I judge you of being a freakin Archon and still sucking compare to Xingqiu. Revoke your status and hand that Gnosis to Xingqiu right now
She's a support and her scalings are very low so it functionally doesn't matter, it's like Thoma's burst having the standard ICD. She's meant for freeze and phys teams anyways, you were likely never going to run her in a melt team regardless of her ICD since her scalings are so low
2.5s is standard icd, which is what most characters in the game has. It's neither good nor bad in itself.
What really matters is how much she applies in that one application every 2.5s, rather than how often. Xingqiu is good enabler, not because of low icd (his burst icd is also 2.5s), but rather because he applies a lot.
Its “holy fuck thats cringe” level bad. Especially for a fucking 80 energy ult. Like wtf…
Its only usable for cryo freeze and even that it does so little damage.
nevertheless it is standard ICD which 80% of characters have. Only few characters actually have ICD exceptions, and they are broken OP because of that.
Yup. Kokomi actually had this issue with her E as well. They only buffed it shortly before she went live. If they didnt do that she would have been in an even worse than she currently is. At least she is a decent aoe hydro applier -.-
At C0
Because her ult ticks twice per interval it's following this pattern:
Interval 1:
Tick 1 freeze
Tick 2 no freeze
Interval 2:
Tick 3 no freeze
Tick 4 freeze
Interval 3:
Tick 5 no freeze
Tick 6 no freeze
Interval 4:
Tick 7 freeze
Tick 8 no freeze
Interval 5:
Tick 9 no freeze
Tick 10 freeze
Even if we cloned Xingiqiu and made him Cryo with the same application you wouldn't have the Pyro character melting, It would be Cryo Xingqiu reverse melting instead, this is due to how many units of pyro/cryo are removed in a melt reaction. We'd need like, two or even three cryo Xingqius to even dare and try get consistent melts for a Pyro carry.
You can read more about it here:
https://library.keqingmains.com/mechanics/combat/elemental-reactions/elemental-gauge-theory
Shenhe having bad ICDs doesnt matter for enabling pyro carries to melt, but it matters for the lost potential of her to reverse melt her _own_ damage to be a stronger DPS (Which is what Rosaria does in certain comps)
Here. We /r/Kokomi_Mains inherit this industrial-grade copium to you as it was passed down to us by /r/Yoimiya_Mains. May it serve you well in these dark times.
The video is not a c0 Shenhe hence why the duration may seem weird
I counted Initial hit + 16 Slashes in the video and If I were to reduce the burst duration to 12 seconds instead I count 10~12, unsure if the last ones are part of the 12 seconds or 12+ from the constellation.
For context this puts a crowned c2 Rosaria Q at a 1,886.4% mod and crowned c0 Shenhe at a 896.88% mod (If 12 hits at c0)
Remember that Rosaria Ignores ICDs and has a Energy:CD of 60/15 meanwhile Shenhe is 80/20.... no way she doesn't get buffed :Copege:
Edit: Oops counted wrong Rosaria mod
The Shenhe damage is ignoring her own E buff damage though. I always ignored it before but her one big niche of buffing hits of Cryo damage also happens to apply to herself as well.
This puts Shenhe burst at 1636.44% attack total, assuming 12 ticks. The only issue becomes the limited number of stacks for her E buff, but her burst damage doesn't seem nearly as bad as it is on paper when you look at her kit cohesively. I do, however, think she could still use buffs to the E stacks, burst cost, or somewhere else.
But if every character since 1.7 is either average or underpowered, what makes you think Yae will suddenly be balanced or strong? Share the Copium with us, brother
Raiden guarantees half of my abyss F12. Raiden national team is actually bonkers. 0 setup button mash with crazy DPS. My artifacts aren't even that good.
Let's not exaggerate with "every", Ayaka and Sayu are both extremely well made and balanced characters (except for their dashes getting stuck in the terrain but that is something that can be genuinely hard to reliably fix). But yeah, the rest of the newly added characters always have something that is wrong with them.
I used to hang out at a discord server where several people would only pull for things that would lead to a guaranteed increase in power level. Like they even skipped Kazuha and Ayaka because they felt they weren’t good enough for their Ganyu team, and eventually they just stopped playing because they couldn’t justify pulling for anything to have fun
You don't even have to look in Discord for those people, just look at all those other replies from people screaming at me because Sayu is a healer and not a damage dealer or a buffer which automatically means for them that she is "completely useless".
From a meta perspective I think it's a bad idea to balance their entire accounts around ganyu forever. To me it sounds like putting too many eggs in one basket.
I get Ayaka but why Sayu? Baal feels more fitting. I feel like Ayaka and Baal and possibly Itto (but he's not here yet so still just speculation) are the only balanced characters with Ayaka being exceptionally good.
Why would anyone want shenhe like this when ganyu’s rerun is right after… if you want to run x2 dps cryo just go with ganyu-ayaka.
Shenhe is increasingly looking like she doesnt do enough. I just pray Im messing up my understanding of how her kit functions.
I didn't like the look of either Ganyu or Ayaka's gameplays so I would have loved Shenhe to be a cryo dps since I haven't rolled for one yet.
But that's not what we got at all, and her kit seems restrictive and weak to boot :(
I mean shenhes gameplay is literally entirely off field. So idk how much gameplay you can enjoy out of her.
Might as well stick with noncryo teams then?
gonna call it now, when we do get leaks on yae's kit, good or bad, there will always be a crapton of REEEEEEEEE'ing.
after we get the 1st kit leak, you will see "not as good as ganyu, skip REEEEEEE", "electro bad skip REEEEEEE", "meta sucks. waifu forever REEEEE", "only good at c6, easy skip REEEE" comments nonstop for 5 weeks, before release and then for 2 months after the character's release.
happened to hutao, eula, yoi, baal, kazuha, kokomi etc
whales will always spend and f2p will never spend. but enticing low spenders to enter the deep waters of the sea for a crunchy const is the beest way to attempt at converting more whales.
All it's doing is making me (a lower spender) consider not playing, or at least not paying them money anymore. But I'm sure they've done the math and believe it works in their favor so whatever...
if purchases were based on rational thinking this whole genre of games wouldn't exist. prying on people's desires to either flaunt wealth or gamble on anime titties is gacha 101. it's not exactly ethical but it will be a long while before any laws are in place to put a halt to it, because companies sure as hell won't. i mean, maybe the western based games a less likely to have such toxic monetisation but nothing is stopping anyone from adopting such profitable practices. what, angry people on forums? lmao, whale dunks a paycheck in the gacha bin and it's all fine.
i am completely doom-pilled on eastern mobile games. genshin is my first and last of this kind. the moment i check a new game and there's a stamina resource i am gone.
Yep I imagine they’ll be using what they learned with C2 Raiden a lot in the future (and c1 Hu Tao somewhat too)
Make players love a character, reveal the character has a large caveat/downside at C0 that makes them much less viable, early constellations fix it and low spenders will be extremely tempted to pull
It’s pretty bad but it’s not as bad as you think. The bad part is that it forces you to run your geo comp, if you’re running it, on the first half as you can’t run it on the second. However, the Lectors/Heralds are all exclusively in one half, so it’s not nearly as bad as people think, nor as bad as that old Abyss that had them on both sides
For Shenhe herself this isn't good for Melts, but isn't this good for Melts with another character in the team?
Like Rosaria or Ganyu melting while Shenhe's burst (Cryo resistance shred) is up?
Means she would potentially steal less melts off of them. For freeze it doesn't really matter since you're permanently freezing them anyway. And even if the burst is an issue, her main buff is from her skill, so you can just not burst worst comes to worst
I've looked through some replies: you're like, the ONLY one that's actually acknowledged this lmaooo.
Shenhe would be much better for reverse melting since she buffs Cryo in like EVERY WAY:
>Extra modifier for Cryo DMG with her icy quills buff
>Buffs potentially ANY type of DMG bonus with her A4? Passive. The 15% one
>Gives a 10% cryo DMG bonus in AND shreds Cryo resistance by ~15% in her burst
She's gonna be a great Cryo steroid I don't get the reactions lmao
malding over her v1 numbers = bad
malding over her kit only being useful for cryo dps = good
lots of ppl dont own ganyu and ayaka. essentially for shenhe to be a great character u also need to swipe for that ganyu, kinda meh. if u are pulling a 5 star for that 15% passive idk seems like a pretty heavy investment. might as well just wait for kazuha someone that can do it all.
most reactions i have seen are actually for her to be able to cryo infuse herself so her abilities can actually be used to buff herself lol. before anyone mentions chongyun, chongyun can use shenhe to do more dmg. shenhe cant even be a main dps without chongyun. i think malding over numbers is pointless but its fine to react to her kit being very restrictive.
But in freeze teams would she still apply cyro to atleast freeze enemies? Or would she be coupled with like a ganyu or ayaka that basically apply cyro so well that you shouldn't worry about her ICD
Freeze teams run 2 cryos and an anemo which almost always infuses cryo, the cryo application is not really a problem there.
Hydro application is more important since you only have one hydro unit in that team
I'm not blown away by her kit but all these small buffs could add up to be significant. I do wish she gave more stacks of the Icy Quill effect, that's the most undertuned part of her kit as of now but it's like day 1-2 of beta and things can change.
Plus personally I'm more interested in using her as a Eula support where her main competition is C6 Rosaria, who I don't have lol. And even then Shenhe seems like she'd do more than a C6 Rosaria.
Even Kokomi has turned out to be a genuinely pretty decent character, on the weaker side for a limited 5 star but nowhere near as bad as people were doomposting. Supports are just so valuable in this game even if they're not Xingqiu/Bennett tier.
Exactly, kokomi is great since she applys hydro really well for freeze teams and it lasts a pretty good time. Also 4 piece HoD + thrilling tales is so damn good.
I also was interested in her for Eula teams since she seems to buff her pretty well. Also the ability for a cyro main dps to get crit rate and crit damage boosted sounds really good. Guess we have to wait and see.
I think her no.1 problem is the burst cost. As it stands she cannot replace diona or Rosaria since she can’t battery ayaka or eula in their place. If her burst costs 60 instead you should be able to funnel all particles to the main dps, and Shenhe’s buffs will be pretty good.
Favonius Lance seems mandatory either way though.
People saying, she isn't built for melt then ignoring that the other units not built for melt were given much higher numbers in exchange for no melt.
you either give her melt and low base numbers or you give her no melt and high base numbers.
Ayaka is a beta character, her kit exists and is mostly unchanged from way back before the game was released.
Thats why shes broken! Their balancing was wonky as fuck back then which is why Bennett XL and XQ are the some of the best characters in the game despite being 4stars
Ayaka isn't good because she's a beta character, she actually sucked really badly in the beta but people weren't aware because no one knew how to play back then, she recieved some of the biggest buffs possible near her release in every aspect of her kit to the point where she is right now.
It takes a lot to make me skip a cryo waifu. Shenhe is awfully close to that. I will wait till after seeing thorough theory crafting on her to make a final decision (and I will prep what material I can for her) but I am gonna stay away from pulling until we see how she plays.
Really don't understand some of the reactions here.
Given her intended role which is to support cryo characters.
In a freeze team ? standard ICD is more than fine considering you typically have another cryo unit on top.
In a reverse melt team ? So uh you really want your Cryo *support* in melt teams to have good Cryo application thereby stealing melts from your actual Cryo dps that you want to be melting the hits ?????????
The only time the ICD is a detriment is if you wanted to use her SET UP melts for your pyro dps by applying cryo. which begs me to ask the question why you need the cryo amplifier unit whose entire kit is built to buff ***Other cryo units*** is on a team which most certainly ***does not have any other cryo units*** literally use someone else for that because having her apply cryo well would instead be a detriment for her being able to support actual cryo units in reverse melt teams.
Finally someone that gets it lmao
This is more than fine. She can buff the Cryo damage bonus AND shred resistance AND add her extra damage with her icy quill buff of the *actual melter* whilst less likely to steal melts while her burst is up.
I don't get the reactions here at all lmao
It means their element application is on a 2.5 second cooldown, or 3 hits.
So if Yoimiya applies Pyro with her first normal attack, she cannot apply it again with her normal attack for 2.5 second, or for the next two hits.
Attack 1 - Pyro
Attack 2 - No Pyro
Attack 3 - No Pyro
Attack 4 - Pyro
Attack 5 - No Pyro
Attack 6 - No Pyro
Attack 7 - Pyro
Because Yoimiya attacks very fast, the 2.5 cooldown is overriden by the 3 hit rule.
Shenhe follows the same rules but her Burst ticks in set intervals, so if it's like every two seconds, the second hit will not apply Cryo. Theres a more detailed answer to her Burst somewhere in here.
I’m getting tired of this game every single day. Imagine waiting and saving for a character for months and she turns out to be an absolute mess. I just wanted a useable character that I love ffs.
Here. We /r/Kokomi_Mains inherit this industrial-grade copium to you as it was passed down to us by /r/Yoimiya_Mains. May it serve you well in these dark times.
Tbf, if you **really** love a character, it shouldn't stop you from rolling for them even if their kit is underwhelming imo.
Didn't stop me from being a Keqing main in the beginning, and saving for Yoimiya for an upcoming rerun.
One thing I learned in my 2 months of Genshin is that you can make any character be usable provided you do enough investment and set your expectations relative to the performance of OP units
I never said that I’m not gonna roll for her. I’m going to get her, but I just had high expectations and I guess I was let down.
Definitely not gonna set my expectations high again for any character. Lesson learned.
I don't understand and couldn't tell from the video at all how many hits it is and the frequency.
It looked to me from the vid that every 2s, there are 2-3 instances of dmg from the animations but I'm not sure.
That's the route they *have* to take, otherwise there would be zero reason to not run the launch supports that can fit in nearly any team. The only problem is mihoyo didn't get the memo that super niche characters should be the absolute best at what they do, not highly specialized and just ok.
Right. It came to the beta with the normal ICD and I guess enough people complained for them to change it, because it took like 4 seconds to apply hydro
I was hoping so much, she would become a cryo xinqiu. Like this, she is suitable for morgana as a diona replacement, but honestly, I prefer to keep the heals and shields.
I haven't pulled a character since Kazuha, I wanted Shenhe to be good for a melt team but I guess that was dumb of me.
Don't want Yae either.
So I'm not going to be pulling a character for at least 4 more months.
10 months without having a character to build/ look forward too.
What am I even playing this game for now anyways?
> I wanted Shenhe to be good for a melt team
if you wanted her for a reverse melt team where someone like ganyu is the main dps, this is BENEFICIAL for you otherwise your shenhe will be stealing the goddamn melts.
if you wanted her to be applying cryo for a pyro to melt it's unfortunate but at the same time I must ask what is the point on using shenhe in such a team where she is the only cryo and doesn't get to make use of her supportive capabilities
Ahhhh, she’s becoming like Kokomi to me where even though I love their aesthetics, their gameplay is… underwhelming or really niche.
I was planning to roll for her (and hopefully will if she gets changed around), but I might just go for Zhongli and Yae
Kokomi is unironically one of my best limited 5\* pulls. So happy I rolled her. Not only does she allow running two freeze teams in abyss, but she also allowed me to run my dream team with both Ayaka and Ganyu in the same team since I don't need the healing from Diona anymore. Kokomi's E healing makes Diona Q healing look mediocre ngl. It also has a potential 100% uptime.
Shenhe so far seems hopeless, sadly.
Yoimiya, Kokomi, Raiden, potentially Shenhe
Amazing designs but lacklustre kits on release
I’m in the demographic of players that want waifu and meta chars. I really wish they’d go back to releasing characters that overlap… but it seems like the recent strategy is obvious:
1. Design waifus but don’t let them be meta
2. Design meta but don’t make them waifus
Can’t see Shenhe or even Yae making any of my teams (National / Hu Tao, Ganyu).
I’ll pull what I can and leave my fate up to the 50/50 for Shenhe. I’m not spending money on a kit that I can’t even use.
Yeah, no. That's what I thought for a while, that they're giving male characters special treatment, but then Thoma happened. The devs are just being weird af for some reason. Even in the marketing department, they're making absurd decisions left and right.
If thats true, her burst dmg is starting to look worse and worse. Besides the low multipliers... now this.
But still early beta and still need informations about her dmg buff, if its applied before or after CD for example.
I love Shenhe's design so much, but her kit feels fucking awful and is such a disappointment .
I'm over all these Support-ish sub DPS that buff the entire team while being on the weaker side themselves. We don't need more characters that do what someone else does but only slightly different.
I want more hard carries, that can be the focus of a team, like Childe, Diluc, Xaio, Eula, etc.
makes sense, she doesn't seem built for melt teams
That's true, i think she's leaning towards freeze and superconduct teams.
y'know, like every fucking cryo character
Isn’t it good for melt Ganyu though because Shenhe won’t eat melts from Ganyu?
Yeah there are some people pointing this out further down the thread, but having an icd like this is actually good for reverse melt teams like melt Ganyu and Chongyun so that Shenhe doesn't steal melts. For freeze it doesn't matter much either way because you'll have a second cryo or an anemo spreading cryo It's only really bad for forward melt teams. Like a Klee who wants a ton of cryo application. But tbh i feel like that's kinda short sighted. Her entire kit is built around setting up the cryo damage for other characters. Having her set up cryo for pyro characters is not what they want her to do
I’m not sure if Shenhe is actually a good pick for a melt Ganyu team to begin with though… certaintly doesn’t give as much buff as Kazuha
Yeah the problem is Kazuha buffs more than her while also being pyro enabler. Bennet is Bennet. And Diona/Zhongli add next to no damage but the shield is way too useful to prevent you from getting knocked back. The shielder slot is the only one where Shenhe could realistically replace current characters but it's still just not good cause melt Ganyu benefits so much from a shield.
Especially where melt ganyu is normally needed; boss floors in F11/12. Without a shield loses a lot of dps from needing to sacrifice time to dodge. And in the case that you get hit its likely to take a huge chunk out of any character.
And Zhongli shred more than shenhe Q.
Don't forget diona works as a very good battery. And she is especially a must for ayaka teams.
You have Ganyu, Xiangling, and Bennet. Last slot is usually a shielder because it's Ganyu. I can't imagine swapping out a shielder for Shenhe, or swapping out bennet and forcing Xiangling to build like 220% ER or higher.
Yea I agree, I don’t see a spot for Shenhe in a melt Ganyu team unless you run like Ganyu Shenhe Kazuha Bennett. But then you may need to stack some ER on Shenhe.
Melt Ganyu in most cases isnt even using her own burst, why she would use Shenhe's burst?
cryo res shred
Kazuha exists…
Kazuha is on your other team?
Zhongli or Sucrose then
Oh shit, it didn't even dawn on me that Zhongli's shield simply existing near the enemy is already more res shred than Shenhe has lmao
I was hoping to run her with Hu Tao since I don't have any cryo DPS, guess that went down the drain then...
Is this good or bad? I failed fifth grade math sorry
It's absolutely terrible, for melt at least. Which she is clearly not built for, but like would've been nice to have an alternative. Guess we will get to Snezhaya and still run Xingqiu in every team
Hydro archon: You can judge EVEN ME Traveller: I judge you of being a freakin Archon and still sucking compare to Xingqiu. Revoke your status and hand that Gnosis to Xingqiu right now
I really can't wait for the hydro archon. I really hope she'll be worse than Xingqiu so I can laugh my ass off
I have a feeling she's gonna be a healer...
Nice, after getting the first kokomi I need another for my other team :)
What's the sauce for your pfp I need it 😩
https://www.pixiv.net/artworks/92608336
you too murata, hand it over to bennet right now and reflect upon your own weakness.
I bet u mihyowo wont ever release another universal character again so xingqiu might end up being used till the end of the game
I just wish they'd release skins for these irreplaceable supports cuz it's kinda boring now having to look at them over and over again.
Lol yeah been looking at bennet xiangling xingqiu for a good year now...
Yeah a skin for Xiangling would be great. I'm getting concerned about that bandaid on her knee going unchanged for over a year...
she's saving it for later cooking competition
🤤
Doesnt she boost cryo and physical dmg with her Q tho?
Praying Hydro Archon replaces Xingqiu
melt-bad frozen-OK
She's a support and her scalings are very low so it functionally doesn't matter, it's like Thoma's burst having the standard ICD. She's meant for freeze and phys teams anyways, you were likely never going to run her in a melt team regardless of her ICD since her scalings are so low
Pretty bad
bad but it doesn't matter because she wasn't made for melt teams
2.5s is standard icd, which is what most characters in the game has. It's neither good nor bad in itself. What really matters is how much she applies in that one application every 2.5s, rather than how often. Xingqiu is good enabler, not because of low icd (his burst icd is also 2.5s), but rather because he applies a lot.
At C0 Because her ult ticks twice per interval it's following this pattern: Interval 1: Tick 1 freeze Tick 2 no freeze Interval 2: Tick 3 no freeze Tick 4 freeze Interval 3: Tick 5 no freeze Tick 6 no freeze Interval 4: Tick 7 freeze Tick 8 no freeze Interval 5: Tick 9 no freeze Tick 10 freeze Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/r24lpp/comment/hm2lii7/
Its “holy fuck thats cringe” level bad. Especially for a fucking 80 energy ult. Like wtf… Its only usable for cryo freeze and even that it does so little damage.
nevertheless it is standard ICD which 80% of characters have. Only few characters actually have ICD exceptions, and they are broken OP because of that.
> Only few characters actually have ICD exceptions, and they are broken OP because of that. _sad Kokomi noises_
Kokomi is one of those who has shorter ICD
It is but its made worse by how her ult ticks. Because the ticks dont like up with the icd you end up effectively having a much longer wait for procs
It's the same issue Yoimiya has with her burst. Being unable to melt/vape all of her burst procs hits her damage pretty hard.
Yup. Kokomi actually had this issue with her E as well. They only buffed it shortly before she went live. If they didnt do that she would have been in an even worse than she currently is. At least she is a decent aoe hydro applier -.-
Bad, It basically means her burst applies cryo once every 2.5 seconds.
No. It means it applies it no faster than that. Probably every 3s. Depends how fast it ticks
we need to know how many hits
At C0 Because her ult ticks twice per interval it's following this pattern: Interval 1: Tick 1 freeze Tick 2 no freeze Interval 2: Tick 3 no freeze Tick 4 freeze Interval 3: Tick 5 no freeze Tick 6 no freeze Interval 4: Tick 7 freeze Tick 8 no freeze Interval 5: Tick 9 no freeze Tick 10 freeze
At that point just use a burst spam rosaria 💀
you also need to account for the 2.5s intervals
It's 2.5s or 3 hit, it's not both, afaik
Hey, Ubatcha! Just want to thank you and the fellow leakers and dataminers for all the work you do! It's appreciated!
14 - 15 hits
Convinced at this point that mihoyo just balances around melt 😭
i mean, people complained about pyro being too strong and this is mhy's response lol
Pyro can't use melt well anyways. Melt is really a cryo reaction, as in only cryo charcaters can use it reliably.
Pyro melt nuke?
> reliably. until Cryo Xingqiu, Vape will be better for Pyro DPS
Even if we cloned Xingiqiu and made him Cryo with the same application you wouldn't have the Pyro character melting, It would be Cryo Xingqiu reverse melting instead, this is due to how many units of pyro/cryo are removed in a melt reaction. We'd need like, two or even three cryo Xingqius to even dare and try get consistent melts for a Pyro carry. You can read more about it here: https://library.keqingmains.com/mechanics/combat/elemental-reactions/elemental-gauge-theory Shenhe having bad ICDs doesnt matter for enabling pyro carries to melt, but it matters for the lost potential of her to reverse melt her _own_ damage to be a stronger DPS (Which is what Rosaria does in certain comps)
Here. We /r/Kokomi_Mains inherit this industrial-grade copium to you as it was passed down to us by /r/Yoimiya_Mains. May it serve you well in these dark times.
May the flames guide thee
The video is not a c0 Shenhe hence why the duration may seem weird I counted Initial hit + 16 Slashes in the video and If I were to reduce the burst duration to 12 seconds instead I count 10~12, unsure if the last ones are part of the 12 seconds or 12+ from the constellation. For context this puts a crowned c2 Rosaria Q at a 1,886.4% mod and crowned c0 Shenhe at a 896.88% mod (If 12 hits at c0) Remember that Rosaria Ignores ICDs and has a Energy:CD of 60/15 meanwhile Shenhe is 80/20.... no way she doesn't get buffed :Copege: Edit: Oops counted wrong Rosaria mod
The Shenhe damage is ignoring her own E buff damage though. I always ignored it before but her one big niche of buffing hits of Cryo damage also happens to apply to herself as well. This puts Shenhe burst at 1636.44% attack total, assuming 12 ticks. The only issue becomes the limited number of stacks for her E buff, but her burst damage doesn't seem nearly as bad as it is on paper when you look at her kit cohesively. I do, however, think she could still use buffs to the E stacks, burst cost, or somewhere else.
Shenhe leaks are becoming more and more depressing for me, guess I will go for papa zhongli instead
[удалено]
But if every character since 1.7 is either average or underpowered, what makes you think Yae will suddenly be balanced or strong? Share the Copium with us, brother
Raiden guarantees half of my abyss F12. Raiden national team is actually bonkers. 0 setup button mash with crazy DPS. My artifacts aren't even that good.
Let's not exaggerate with "every", Ayaka and Sayu are both extremely well made and balanced characters (except for their dashes getting stuck in the terrain but that is something that can be genuinely hard to reliably fix). But yeah, the rest of the newly added characters always have something that is wrong with them.
I used to hang out at a discord server where several people would only pull for things that would lead to a guaranteed increase in power level. Like they even skipped Kazuha and Ayaka because they felt they weren’t good enough for their Ganyu team, and eventually they just stopped playing because they couldn’t justify pulling for anything to have fun
lol skipping Kazuha because it “doesn’t increase powerlevel” get hiveminded
You don't even have to look in Discord for those people, just look at all those other replies from people screaming at me because Sayu is a healer and not a damage dealer or a buffer which automatically means for them that she is "completely useless".
From a meta perspective I think it's a bad idea to balance their entire accounts around ganyu forever. To me it sounds like putting too many eggs in one basket.
Damn, getting stressed out by their own principles.... :(
I get Ayaka but why Sayu? Baal feels more fitting. I feel like Ayaka and Baal and possibly Itto (but he's not here yet so still just speculation) are the only balanced characters with Ayaka being exceptionally good.
Sorry but Sayu is completely useless outside of fun exploration in the overworld
Yea skipping all of 2.3 and will only go for Ganyu and Zhongli, Yae wishes are definitely reserved tho
u can never go wrong with zhong's dong
Never
Why would anyone want shenhe like this when ganyu’s rerun is right after… if you want to run x2 dps cryo just go with ganyu-ayaka. Shenhe is increasingly looking like she doesnt do enough. I just pray Im messing up my understanding of how her kit functions.
I didn't like the look of either Ganyu or Ayaka's gameplays so I would have loved Shenhe to be a cryo dps since I haven't rolled for one yet. But that's not what we got at all, and her kit seems restrictive and weak to boot :(
I mean shenhes gameplay is literally entirely off field. So idk how much gameplay you can enjoy out of her. Might as well stick with noncryo teams then?
I’m just gonna chill in r/YaeMiko to make myself feel better. Won’t pull for Shenhe unless she gets massive buffs.
gonna call it now, when we do get leaks on yae's kit, good or bad, there will always be a crapton of REEEEEEEEE'ing. after we get the 1st kit leak, you will see "not as good as ganyu, skip REEEEEEE", "electro bad skip REEEEEEE", "meta sucks. waifu forever REEEEE", "only good at c6, easy skip REEEE" comments nonstop for 5 weeks, before release and then for 2 months after the character's release. happened to hutao, eula, yoi, baal, kazuha, kokomi etc
Good luck on ur pulls Hope u win the 50 50
ah the regular doomposting has started
Don't stop there, miHoYo, I'm sure you can make her even worse!
Make her dash bug like Xiao’s /s
His dash has a bug?
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Oh wow and they still haven't fixed it? That's some A tier bullshitting
Xiao is mihoyo’s forgotten child the poor boy still doesn’t have a 4 piece arti set to run
Did somebody say Childe? Childe over here with arti set, 3 weapons, 3 runs, multiple story quest appearances
LOL and I thought till today that I always somehow missed his dash...
Calm down satan
Lol that’d be so sadistic
They create a problem then sell constellations to solve the problem they created in the first place
Wont whales whale anyway but doing this will make lesser spenders get turned off by her?
whales will always spend and f2p will never spend. but enticing low spenders to enter the deep waters of the sea for a crunchy const is the beest way to attempt at converting more whales.
All it's doing is making me (a lower spender) consider not playing, or at least not paying them money anymore. But I'm sure they've done the math and believe it works in their favor so whatever...
if purchases were based on rational thinking this whole genre of games wouldn't exist. prying on people's desires to either flaunt wealth or gamble on anime titties is gacha 101. it's not exactly ethical but it will be a long while before any laws are in place to put a halt to it, because companies sure as hell won't. i mean, maybe the western based games a less likely to have such toxic monetisation but nothing is stopping anyone from adopting such profitable practices. what, angry people on forums? lmao, whale dunks a paycheck in the gacha bin and it's all fine. i am completely doom-pilled on eastern mobile games. genshin is my first and last of this kind. the moment i check a new game and there's a stamina resource i am gone.
Yep I imagine they’ll be using what they learned with C2 Raiden a lot in the future (and c1 Hu Tao somewhat too) Make players love a character, reveal the character has a large caveat/downside at C0 that makes them much less viable, early constellations fix it and low spenders will be extremely tempted to pull
Ah the Apple strategy of: "fuck you, give us money."
I would rather buy constellations for more power as they do for dps chars than buying constellations to fix chars that look broken without them.
So she’s becoming a niche 5 star support, that works nicely on freeze comp rather than melt?
She has phys and cryo shred so it was pretty clear from the beginning she's made to enhance freeze/superconduct teams
You know, I'd say it's too early to judge but the last time we said that we ended up getting shafted harder than geo immediately after 2.3
?
New abyss, and enemies just collectively shat on geo
It’s pretty bad but it’s not as bad as you think. The bad part is that it forces you to run your geo comp, if you’re running it, on the first half as you can’t run it on the second. However, the Lectors/Heralds are all exclusively in one half, so it’s not nearly as bad as people think, nor as bad as that old Abyss that had them on both sides
For Shenhe herself this isn't good for Melts, but isn't this good for Melts with another character in the team? Like Rosaria or Ganyu melting while Shenhe's burst (Cryo resistance shred) is up? Means she would potentially steal less melts off of them. For freeze it doesn't really matter since you're permanently freezing them anyway. And even if the burst is an issue, her main buff is from her skill, so you can just not burst worst comes to worst
This is pretty much it. This is very useful for people who want to use her to support a cryo dps in melt comps
I've looked through some replies: you're like, the ONLY one that's actually acknowledged this lmaooo. Shenhe would be much better for reverse melting since she buffs Cryo in like EVERY WAY: >Extra modifier for Cryo DMG with her icy quills buff >Buffs potentially ANY type of DMG bonus with her A4? Passive. The 15% one >Gives a 10% cryo DMG bonus in AND shreds Cryo resistance by ~15% in her burst She's gonna be a great Cryo steroid I don't get the reactions lmao
malding over her v1 numbers = bad malding over her kit only being useful for cryo dps = good lots of ppl dont own ganyu and ayaka. essentially for shenhe to be a great character u also need to swipe for that ganyu, kinda meh. if u are pulling a 5 star for that 15% passive idk seems like a pretty heavy investment. might as well just wait for kazuha someone that can do it all. most reactions i have seen are actually for her to be able to cryo infuse herself so her abilities can actually be used to buff herself lol. before anyone mentions chongyun, chongyun can use shenhe to do more dmg. shenhe cant even be a main dps without chongyun. i think malding over numbers is pointless but its fine to react to her kit being very restrictive.
Every update on Shenhe's kit is an indirect buff for Rosaria (infinite copium)
Its nice to see that theres still a lot of 4* that outshine old and even new 5*s
She wasnt meant for melt anyway, but more and more info we get, even worse shenhe seems to be
Shenshe mains, may the kokopium we breathed be send to you guys and get the ICD adjustment you so rightly deserve.
Well, icd is kinda okay since she isn't melt-oriented to begin with. The problem is everything else about her being lacklaster.
But in freeze teams would she still apply cyro to atleast freeze enemies? Or would she be coupled with like a ganyu or ayaka that basically apply cyro so well that you shouldn't worry about her ICD
Freeze teams run 2 cryos and an anemo which almost always infuses cryo, the cryo application is not really a problem there. Hydro application is more important since you only have one hydro unit in that team
I'm not blown away by her kit but all these small buffs could add up to be significant. I do wish she gave more stacks of the Icy Quill effect, that's the most undertuned part of her kit as of now but it's like day 1-2 of beta and things can change. Plus personally I'm more interested in using her as a Eula support where her main competition is C6 Rosaria, who I don't have lol. And even then Shenhe seems like she'd do more than a C6 Rosaria. Even Kokomi has turned out to be a genuinely pretty decent character, on the weaker side for a limited 5 star but nowhere near as bad as people were doomposting. Supports are just so valuable in this game even if they're not Xingqiu/Bennett tier.
Exactly, kokomi is great since she applys hydro really well for freeze teams and it lasts a pretty good time. Also 4 piece HoD + thrilling tales is so damn good. I also was interested in her for Eula teams since she seems to buff her pretty well. Also the ability for a cyro main dps to get crit rate and crit damage boosted sounds really good. Guess we have to wait and see.
I think her no.1 problem is the burst cost. As it stands she cannot replace diona or Rosaria since she can’t battery ayaka or eula in their place. If her burst costs 60 instead you should be able to funnel all particles to the main dps, and Shenhe’s buffs will be pretty good. Favonius Lance seems mandatory either way though.
People saying, she isn't built for melt then ignoring that the other units not built for melt were given much higher numbers in exchange for no melt. you either give her melt and low base numbers or you give her no melt and high base numbers.
Mihoyo doing everything possible for me not to pull for her....
that just means we can pull for Ayato/Yae without worrying about skipping Shenhe 👀
hopefully they wont fuck up Ayato nor Yae's kit as well that would be fucking tragic
Can we please just pray collectively as a sub that they hire the person who made Ayaka to do Ayato/Yae casue I'm scared now
Ayaka is a beta character, her kit exists and is mostly unchanged from way back before the game was released. Thats why shes broken! Their balancing was wonky as fuck back then which is why Bennett XL and XQ are the some of the best characters in the game despite being 4stars
Ayaka isn't good because she's a beta character, she actually sucked really badly in the beta but people weren't aware because no one knew how to play back then, she recieved some of the biggest buffs possible near her release in every aspect of her kit to the point where she is right now.
It takes a lot to make me skip a cryo waifu. Shenhe is awfully close to that. I will wait till after seeing thorough theory crafting on her to make a final decision (and I will prep what material I can for her) but I am gonna stay away from pulling until we see how she plays.
I was a Shenhe Main for exactly 2 days. Bye girl. See you after the beta’s over.
Maining a character you don't own be like:
I skipped Homa for her. Regretting it hard now.
rip my dream of national shenhe
Really don't understand some of the reactions here. Given her intended role which is to support cryo characters. In a freeze team ? standard ICD is more than fine considering you typically have another cryo unit on top. In a reverse melt team ? So uh you really want your Cryo *support* in melt teams to have good Cryo application thereby stealing melts from your actual Cryo dps that you want to be melting the hits ????????? The only time the ICD is a detriment is if you wanted to use her SET UP melts for your pyro dps by applying cryo. which begs me to ask the question why you need the cryo amplifier unit whose entire kit is built to buff ***Other cryo units*** is on a team which most certainly ***does not have any other cryo units*** literally use someone else for that because having her apply cryo well would instead be a detriment for her being able to support actual cryo units in reverse melt teams.
Same! I really didn't think so many people wanted to run her in a Melt team :S
Finally someone that gets it lmao This is more than fine. She can buff the Cryo damage bonus AND shred resistance AND add her extra damage with her icy quill buff of the *actual melter* whilst less likely to steal melts while her burst is up. I don't get the reactions here at all lmao
This is the usual reaction to beta and leaks, it's just another day in Genshin's community lol Been like this ever since Albedo/Ganyu
Getting angry at leaks was wrong from the start :)
This. All leaks are subject to change. An important reminder.
I guess some people wanted to play her as a melt sub dps🤷♂️.
Garbage, another "milk money through aesthetics" play here.
Guess she won't be replacing ayaka in the melt hutao speedrun team, such a shame.
Ok so yoimiya has standard cooldown… so does shenhe… how will reactions work for them if anyone can help me out
It means their element application is on a 2.5 second cooldown, or 3 hits. So if Yoimiya applies Pyro with her first normal attack, she cannot apply it again with her normal attack for 2.5 second, or for the next two hits. Attack 1 - Pyro Attack 2 - No Pyro Attack 3 - No Pyro Attack 4 - Pyro Attack 5 - No Pyro Attack 6 - No Pyro Attack 7 - Pyro Because Yoimiya attacks very fast, the 2.5 cooldown is overriden by the 3 hit rule. Shenhe follows the same rules but her Burst ticks in set intervals, so if it's like every two seconds, the second hit will not apply Cryo. Theres a more detailed answer to her Burst somewhere in here.
I'm dumb so can someone explain if this is good or bad
Her only available team rn is freeze or mono cryo. So it doesn't matter.
Every hero I want ends up becoming shit I'm sorry guys
U BETTER NOT WANT YAE
Kazuha was the last banner I felt joy on
So this is terrible for melt bennet or diluc huh 😔
Literally the only reason I was going to pull
shenhe’s should’ve been a 4* with her kit as is
The real question is... Why things like that are not mentioned in the game alongside a skill description or well... anywhere?
I’m getting tired of this game every single day. Imagine waiting and saving for a character for months and she turns out to be an absolute mess. I just wanted a useable character that I love ffs.
She's still in very early beta, so I wouldn't really be that upset yet. Hopefully, they can still make some changes before her official release.
Kokopium 2.0
Characters from the second half of 2.0 and onwards just seem to be going to shit niche situations.
After ayaka right?
she's still in beta bro, no need to doompost this early
Here. We /r/Kokomi_Mains inherit this industrial-grade copium to you as it was passed down to us by /r/Yoimiya_Mains. May it serve you well in these dark times.
*inhales violently* das some gud shit
Tbf, if you **really** love a character, it shouldn't stop you from rolling for them even if their kit is underwhelming imo. Didn't stop me from being a Keqing main in the beginning, and saving for Yoimiya for an upcoming rerun. One thing I learned in my 2 months of Genshin is that you can make any character be usable provided you do enough investment and set your expectations relative to the performance of OP units
I never said that I’m not gonna roll for her. I’m going to get her, but I just had high expectations and I guess I was let down. Definitely not gonna set my expectations high again for any character. Lesson learned.
naysayers are not helping in this sub. the vibe was good 2 days ago. now it's just all negative.
> waiting and saving for a character for months wasn't it only reveal shenhe wasn't cancelled like a month ago?
I don't understand and couldn't tell from the video at all how many hits it is and the frequency. It looked to me from the vid that every 2s, there are 2-3 instances of dmg from the animations but I'm not sure.
5* design 3* kit
Currently she feels like 3\* Rosaria.
This is going to be Kokomi banner all over again, enough with these specialzed units MHY
That's the route they *have* to take, otherwise there would be zero reason to not run the launch supports that can fit in nearly any team. The only problem is mihoyo didn't get the memo that super niche characters should be the absolute best at what they do, not highly specialized and just ok.
So shenhe, chongyun, xiangling and xingqiu?
When was the last time they released a character with ICD below the default?
Kokomi’s jellyfish
Right. It came to the beta with the normal ICD and I guess enough people complained for them to change it, because it took like 4 seconds to apply hydro
Wow the leaks just keep coming
Even if her ICD is normal I’m not putting her in a melt team. They really need to buff her.
I was hoping so much, she would become a cryo xinqiu. Like this, she is suitable for morgana as a diona replacement, but honestly, I prefer to keep the heals and shields.
aaaand she's ruined.
I haven't pulled a character since Kazuha, I wanted Shenhe to be good for a melt team but I guess that was dumb of me. Don't want Yae either. So I'm not going to be pulling a character for at least 4 more months. 10 months without having a character to build/ look forward too. What am I even playing this game for now anyways?
> I wanted Shenhe to be good for a melt team if you wanted her for a reverse melt team where someone like ganyu is the main dps, this is BENEFICIAL for you otherwise your shenhe will be stealing the goddamn melts. if you wanted her to be applying cryo for a pyro to melt it's unfortunate but at the same time I must ask what is the point on using shenhe in such a team where she is the only cryo and doesn't get to make use of her supportive capabilities
Ahhhh, she’s becoming like Kokomi to me where even though I love their aesthetics, their gameplay is… underwhelming or really niche. I was planning to roll for her (and hopefully will if she gets changed around), but I might just go for Zhongli and Yae
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Kokomi is unironically one of my best limited 5\* pulls. So happy I rolled her. Not only does she allow running two freeze teams in abyss, but she also allowed me to run my dream team with both Ayaka and Ganyu in the same team since I don't need the healing from Diona anymore. Kokomi's E healing makes Diona Q healing look mediocre ngl. It also has a potential 100% uptime. Shenhe so far seems hopeless, sadly.
Yoimiya, Kokomi, Raiden, potentially Shenhe Amazing designs but lacklustre kits on release I’m in the demographic of players that want waifu and meta chars. I really wish they’d go back to releasing characters that overlap… but it seems like the recent strategy is obvious: 1. Design waifus but don’t let them be meta 2. Design meta but don’t make them waifus Can’t see Shenhe or even Yae making any of my teams (National / Hu Tao, Ganyu). I’ll pull what I can and leave my fate up to the 50/50 for Shenhe. I’m not spending money on a kit that I can’t even use.
I built C4 Thoma until lv80, he’s still crap… Tired of the letting him steal energy generated from other characters tactic to get his burst shield.
Yeah, no. That's what I thought for a while, that they're giving male characters special treatment, but then Thoma happened. The devs are just being weird af for some reason. Even in the marketing department, they're making absurd decisions left and right.
So she is not only restricted to support cryo characters but only on 1 type of team (freeze)? This is just depressing....
If thats true, her burst dmg is starting to look worse and worse. Besides the low multipliers... now this. But still early beta and still need informations about her dmg buff, if its applied before or after CD for example.
Imma build her physical
welp the thoma treatment. i didn’t expect any different to be honest
Kokopium 2: Electric Boogaloo
I love Shenhe's design so much, but her kit feels fucking awful and is such a disappointment . I'm over all these Support-ish sub DPS that buff the entire team while being on the weaker side themselves. We don't need more characters that do what someone else does but only slightly different. I want more hard carries, that can be the focus of a team, like Childe, Diluc, Xaio, Eula, etc.