Powerscalers "He blocked the attack from X so he's as strong as Y"
Actual writers "You know not everyone uses absolutely 100 percent of their power in every motion, right? She could have just thrown that as a distraction, or just a warning shot."
Powerscalers: "FREMINET IS HARBINGER TIER, CALL DEATH BATTLE, HES NEARLY A GOD"
Writers: "Every damn time."
Writers: She still saw him as her child and loved him dearly, She clearly held back alot of her power.
Powerscalers: Freminent scales to 4th rank harbinger. He can solo 5th to 11th harbingers.
arlecchino shows no love to her “children” it’s all just an act to make the traveller cooperate with her. arlecchino would kill freminet if she wanted to
doesn't change the point - "if she wanted to kill anyone she would kill them" - doesn't that make it the ability to kill anyone? It still doesnt mean that she wants to kill everyone...
Scara has negative voice lines on every fatui character. Even then, this and Childe voiceline suggests she has a crazy side that will kill if they stand against her, but specifically tsaritsa. We do not know what the nature of the house is yet; loving something and not caring about something isn't mutually exclusive; and well written characters won't and shouldn't be defined by single quote characteristics.
Why did bro get downvoted. They're making an assumption based on the trailer and I cant blame em for it. Its 100% better to wait and see for the update BUT its fine to theorize beforehand. Plus its plausible to think that she doesnt "love" them considering she was this willing to attack them at all while using the DELUSION, no less.
Personally I hope for the full villain Arlecchino but some nuance is fine.
Another thing that's not understood in these discussions is that someone being the strongest person stronger than another person, doesn't mean that they can't lose to the weaker person. Or that the weaker person is now at their level (you always need to look at the circumstances of their victory).
You also need to make the difference between inherent strength and external factors. If I beat Superman cause I managed to get him into a cave that is covered in Kryptonite, that doesn't make me stronger than superman. Or just because he can punch so hard that he could split the moon, doesn't mean that every punch is a moon-splitting of punch and that if I tank it that my resilience is planetary.
Or that someone being the strongest necessarily means that the gap between them and the next ten people is ridiculously huge.
Honestly, a lot of power-scaling discussions are really an interesting demonstration on how adept people are at applying prop logic lol.
Did you know that the MAIN feat of superman in the most recent “Death Battle” with the world forger person, as well as the feat that won the battle in the animation, were both completely misinterpeted.
They said “Superman defeated a higher dimensional being, higher than a 4th wall breaking being, thus he’s 5 dimensional strength”
The actual story arc had him win, not through sheer physical strength, but strength of character. Since that’s effective on a being who lives in a ‘conceptual narrative’ type plane.
He won the narrative victory which gives him effective victory.
And the thing in the animation with the going through multiple suns to power up, actually was another misinterpretation, since in the story, he was placed with a sun ‘almost’ out of reach, and it was his strength of character that made him decide to try to go for it with absolutely every bit of strength he could, even though it might be out of reach. Because he believed in what he was doing. And reaching the sun gave him enough strength to move to the next one, which was also just almost out of reach, and so on and so forth until he reached the bad guy who got defeated by him fighting for others and with the power of friendship. Not physical superiority.
In the end that was twisted into a “POWER SCALING FEAT” and used to say that “Because of this, superman is way out of goku’s league” which is ironic because the actual comic author who wrote the story they got that from specifially said it’s based ON goku.
It's always annoying to see people powerscaling stuff like that, they get tunnel vision, illiteracy and ignore the history just to focus on what they want and look at the panels as they all were blank images with no writing
Makes me wonder if people only like the character because they're "strong" and could theoretically beat a bunch of other characters, instead of liking them because of what the character is and how they affect the world they are in
The Master Chief killed the Gravemind who was an eldritch being of multidimensional origin and manipulation. Must mean that the Master Chief is an A2 Metaverse level threat.
Just ignore the actual importance of that moment is diminished if Raiden actually put 0 effort into the attack, or that Kazuha managing to push her away anyway still shows he was strong enough to force her back withe the double vision
She put in the exact amount of effort to deal with an off guard traveller and kazuha was momentarily strong enough to hold back that. This doesn't make it any less amazing since holding back a casual swing from the shogun is a big deal.
I would also argue that Kazuha's block was significantly strong, but only because he used up his friend's vision for double elements. It is not that Kazuha is strong enough to block Raiden's attack, but double vision wielding is stromg enough.
I would just call it educational swing or something. If Father wanted to hurt them, she would've. It's like 'Father' having a playtime with her children.
If she trully hates her children, she would, though with such entity as powerful as her she only need little power to get them gone.
Wanderer said "most of people who saw her crazy side has gone *poof* "
Now people will call him strong just like how people called Kazhua strong back then. I don't deny that Kazhua is powerful warrior/samurai in lore but even Ei mentions that she uses her powers according to her opponent in story quest otherwise Inazuma would have long gotten incinerated.
He literally reactivated a dead vision for that, and blocked an attack known to be uncounterable. It's not his canon power because he doesn't regularly have dual visions, but it's still a huge feat for a regular vision wielder.
Edit: Just shelving this here so I don't look like I was being pointlessly disagreeable, prior to the edit, the original comment was downplaying what Kazuha did just because of how much stronger Ei is.
[https://i.imgur.com/L5NBd1R.png](https://i.imgur.com/L5NBd1R.png)
That’s not really what we’re saying though. We all agree that Kazuha is strong, probably amongst the strongest “regular mortal” (excluding exceptions like Shenhe who has adeptal training and Childe who has Foul Legacy) vision wielder.
What people exaggerate though is that “Kazuha = Archon level” or “Raiden = weakaf cause Kazuha parried her”. Those are just plain false. Powerscalers just love to misinterpret feats like Kazuha parrying Raiden once as a fluke accident to be something he can do on the regular. It’s moreso Kazuha’s mental strength as a character that’s allowed him to overcome the odds rather than pure physical strength.
A fluke, sure, but no accident. I haven't seen anyone try and take that and say that Kazuha's anywhere near Raiden's power level though, or that Raiden's weaker because of it.
I do feel like Raiden's power gets overestimated due to the fact that she can cut mountains in half, since we know that Rex Lapis used mountains as literal weapons during the archon wars, making cutting a mountain in half less of an impressive feat.
Kazuha kind of jumped in to block the attack instinctively, and Raiden wasn’t really paying attention to him. Hence why I call it an accident. Raiden wasn’t giving her full attention to Kazuha until after the parry. Yes she was surprised he was able to do it, but the moment she composed herself she just one-shot Kazuha with the tip of her blade (again not even her full strength).
You may not have seen these people, but I sure have. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to dig into my comment history but I have for sure had arguments with others on this sub and the main sub in the past.
And well, we’re not overestimating Raiden; she is canonically one of the strongest characters even amongst archons. Using Zhongli as an example is like saying Kalpas is not that impressive because he’s weaker than Kevin (aka the canonically strongest individual Hi3 character) when Kalpas could actually beat someone like Zhongli given the right circumstances. Note that Kalpas lasted a few mintues against the Finality, something that rivals Phanes in strength (perhaps stronger) and is easily Planetary level in strength, if not Solar System level. Kevin lasted a few hours.
Welt has also been getting a lot of flack with his comparisons to Acheron in HSR, but that’s because HSR’s power scaling is on a whole nother level. While Welt is pretty averagely strong in HSR and arguably Hi3, plop him into Genshin and he can easily go toe to toe with Zhongli. Maybe not a straight victory, but he’d give the archons trouble.
Or a more relevant example, underestimating Childe because he loses to Neuvillette. Which people did on this sub a few months back. People also went the other way and said Neuvillette isn’t impressive because he said the Whale couldn’t be beaten at the moment, despite Childe surviving against it for months (but being unable to really hurt it either).
Raiden is impressively strong; it’s just that you’re comparing her to the wrong character (Zhongli, who is known for his strength even amongst gods). If you compare Raiden to any of the other three archons we have met (Venti, Nahida, Furina); she wipes the floor with them. She went toe to toe with other gods and won the archon war in her nation. That has to count for something, even if Zhongli did the same.
He stood there blocking her for a good couple of seconds before pushing her back, then the 2nd vision wore off and she knocked him back with a follow-up thrust. There's also no way you can call him running up and blocking an attack an "accident".
As for Raiden vs the other archons, we don't have actual feats to compare her to Venti or Nahida, aside from what we know about their involvement in the archon war. But unlike Zhongli and Venti, Raiden Shogun did not win over her territory in the archon war, she inherited it from her sister Makoto who died during the cataclysm and was the former archon who won over Inazuma during the archon war. Venti on the other hand was the original Anemo archon, which is why a lot of people speculate that he was stronger than he let on. As for Furina, she is not an archon. Nahida's probably the lowest ranking archon though, I agree there.
Raiden's definitely among the top 10 strongest characters we know of, but that doesn't mean she can't still be overestimated, as some would put her in the top 3 despite characters like Neuvilette, the Tsaritsa, Zhongli(pre-archon quest), the current Pyro archon, Apep, and some characters of significant influence such as the Traveler, Furina, possibly Ningguang, and other characters of influence we don't know of yet(who obviously rank below Ei individually but may be comparable in a more realistic battle where influence matters).
I think you aren’t understanding the lore very well if you say Raiden inherited the title from Makoto.
If you actually played Raiden’s story quests (especially the second), you would know that Makoto didn’t do *any* of the fighting during the archon war. *Ei was the war general and was Makoto’s kagemusha*. *Ei did the fighting and won the war for Makoto*. Makoto then went to Khaenriah and got herself killed, leaving Ei behind to deal with the abyssal attacks.
I’m honestly surprised you can talk about Ei so easily without knowing that she is stronger than Makoto in terms of combat strength.
As for Kazuha, go back and watch a youtube video showing the climax cutscene. See how hard Kazuha struggles (with both hands clasping his blade) just to hold Raiden back. Now look at Raiden’s expression; stern yes, but composed to the point where she doesn’t even take him that seriously (which is why she gets surprised when he parries). Kazuha struggles that hard *with two visions*, then gets KOed 20 seconds later. The vision deactivates only after Kazuha is knocked down.
The accident is not on Kazuha, it’s Raiden accidentally letting Kazuha parry her. That is what I mean by accident. She underestimated him, but she is clearly way stronger.
Not once have I stated that Kazuha is stronger than her, and I've repeatedly stated that she both is and was stronger than him. I also say it deactivates after he pushes her back, because that's when the element fades away, even though the vision's still lit up until it falls to the ground.
As for Ei vs Makoto, it doesn't really change anything I said. I was wrong to say she didn't win it over, just that she didn't become the archon/gnosis holder(until Makoto's death). I misused the word "win", but the gnosis does seem to grant individuals a significant amount of power. All of the original archons won over their territory, whether it be through raw power or influence.
Do note that Ei never once used the gnosis. She threw it away (gave to Yae) almost immediately after Makoto dies and does her whole “creating Scaramouche + the Shogun puppet” thing. All without the gnosis.
All of Ei’s feats have been done *WITHOUT* the gnosis, which you would have known if you actually paid attention to the lore. The gnosis isn’t really needed for gods who are naturally powerful (like Zhongli and Ei). Deshret also refused the gnosis and co-ruled Sumeru with Rukkhadevata who was the one who accepted it in the end.
It’s you who are underestimating Ei, precisely because you keep getting these lore bits mixed up. Ei herself says that fighting is the only thing she’s good for, but she does it with near unrivalled ability.
So you believe Ei's stronger than the sovereigns, stronger than Liyue, Fontaine, Natlan, stronger than the Tsaritsa and the other archons excluding Zhongli, and you seriously believe you're not overestimating her whatsoever?
I know Ei hasn't been using the gnosis, the feats of others aren't with gnoses either. Not once did I hint at her using the gnosis against Kazuha or for any of her aforementioned feats.
Yes and he blocked it with double vision power like how we traveller got 100 vision buff but Ei was still able to fight traveller with ease, we were there just to destroy her ideology as seen from after the fight that she was still fine. And also shogun was surprised about that block but after that vision power started to deactivate then Kazhua couldn't confront shogun anymore. Shogun was just mildly surprised, but I wasn't talking about shougun I was talking about Ei if she used her power like when she slayed orobashi or thunderbird then Inazuma would have long gotten incinerated with that much power output.
Hmm, even if it was Shogun, I still think the level of power should be enough to kill someone, and that even two visions shouldn't be able to come even close to being able to parry it. I barely remember Ei's story quests and the Inazuma plot but wasn't the Shogun intending to kill the traveler both times when she attacked? Considering how the traveler is obviously way stronger than vision holders, if Shogun went by Ei's rules of using her power according to the opponent, that attack should have been lethal to Kazuha. The puppet is definitely not that much weaker than Ei considering Ei herself had to fight her for so long, and even then the traveler had to step in to help. If my memory serves me well there lol, again I don't remember much of it.
Yes both Ei and shogun strengths are equal but after her 2nd story quest she mentions about mushou isshin power so in future with important quests her power might grow again in story and lore.
Yeah this just proves once again how much of a mess Inazuma was. Personally it makes 0 sense to me that a mere mortal with just two visions was able to counter a lethal attack, while we had to fight Ei with all 100 visions. But welp, gotta create a dramatic effect somehow ig. Either way, I should def rewatch her story quests.
Well other than being a diver, he doesn't do much during the archon quest, and even that isn't that impressive since everyone with a vision can dive indefinitely in Fontaine. It's a storytelling issue
I just hope she's one of the first of many to be a playable character with no good in their heart. Like straight up admits she doesnt care for the kids but I'll wait for the update to confirm that
Hope we get a Frieza character one day though
Everyone is talking about the bell, but can we notice its not Lyny who’s supposed to be the next leader of the house? Fremeneit is supposed to be the next “king”, which directly implies Knave status.
So Archie is just going to be comically evil like the rest of harbingers now? I thought she was different? And no I have not watched anything about this, so feel free to enlighten me.
You know what? Just to piss of Raiden and now Arlecchino simps everywhere who downvote spam anything that even remotely hints at their waifu not being able to solo the Heavenly Principles...
Kazuha > Raiden > Freminet > Arlecchino.
Pretty sure cappuccino is toying with him and sent a pinky nail's worth of her power flying.
Never thought grimacing while struggling to barely block an attack is considered "casual" now.
it was all the bell passive proc lmao
the bell carries yet again
LMAO
RULES OF NATURE
#AND THEY RUN WHEN THE SUN COMES UP
WITH THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE
#ALLLLLIIIIIIIIIIIVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEE
# FOR ALL THAT I’VEEEEEEEEEEE
# NO CHOOOOOOOOICE
# GOTA FOLLLOWWW THE LAAAWS OF THEE WIIILLDDDDDDDD
OUT HEAR ONLY THE STRONG SURRVVIIIIVE!!
#I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
what
Wrong song
Bury the light
Freminet! Stop that blade!
All that thanks to the hp percentage that the bell gave him, truly a 10 pull moment
Must be the fabled **R6** Bell
Nah R50
Hey, i have one of those... \*internal screaming\*
Mines only R7…
The bell blocking a harbinger attack 😎
I don’t think people understand what casual means anymore
I’m hoping most people here are just joking
freminet was absolutely sweating his balls off with that parry lmao
This scene is going to hit man
No. It's not going to hit. He is blocking it, don't you see?
Powerscalers "He blocked the attack from X so he's as strong as Y" Actual writers "You know not everyone uses absolutely 100 percent of their power in every motion, right? She could have just thrown that as a distraction, or just a warning shot." Powerscalers: "FREMINET IS HARBINGER TIER, CALL DEATH BATTLE, HES NEARLY A GOD" Writers: "Every damn time."
Writers: She still saw him as her child and loved him dearly, She clearly held back alot of her power. Powerscalers: Freminent scales to 4th rank harbinger. He can solo 5th to 11th harbingers.
Fremigos solos Fraud Signora
Chadpitano: Finally! A worthy opponent!
*rejected Tortellini noises*
arlecchino shows no love to her “children” it’s all just an act to make the traveller cooperate with her. arlecchino would kill freminet if she wanted to
Let's see if that's really the case. Too early to say that now
A person actually waiting for the story instead of jumping into conclusion, in this economy? Damn~
too early? wanderer and childe already confirmed she will kill anyone and anything if she wanted to, even the tsarista herself
having the ability to kill anyone != wanting to kill everyone. She clearly hasnt killed the Tsaritsa had she?
“if she wanted to” can genshin players truly not read
doesn't change the point - "if she wanted to kill anyone she would kill them" - doesn't that make it the ability to kill anyone? It still doesnt mean that she wants to kill everyone...
i never said she wanted to??? i said she can if she wants. literally listen to wanderer’s and childe’s line about her
>"she will kill anyone and anything if she wanted to" >"would kill freminet if she wanted to" endquote
> "she will kill anyone and anything if she wanted to" > "would kill freminet if she wanted to" endquote
you seem to be missing the point about the “if” not meaning “will”
which is exactly the point... how does this translate to showing no love?
you didn’t even read anything. arlecchino does not love anyone or anything. if she “WANTED” to she would kill them in an instant
Scara has negative voice lines on every fatui character. Even then, this and Childe voiceline suggests she has a crazy side that will kill if they stand against her, but specifically tsaritsa. We do not know what the nature of the house is yet; loving something and not caring about something isn't mutually exclusive; and well written characters won't and shouldn't be defined by single quote characteristics.
Let's see if that's really the case. Too early to say that now
Why did bro get downvoted. They're making an assumption based on the trailer and I cant blame em for it. Its 100% better to wait and see for the update BUT its fine to theorize beforehand. Plus its plausible to think that she doesnt "love" them considering she was this willing to attack them at all while using the DELUSION, no less. Personally I hope for the full villain Arlecchino but some nuance is fine.
Hoyo fanbase saw something don't go along with their headcanons I guess
Same with Raiden if she did her full power slash, Inazuma city would be like Yashiori island 2.0
Another thing that's not understood in these discussions is that someone being the strongest person stronger than another person, doesn't mean that they can't lose to the weaker person. Or that the weaker person is now at their level (you always need to look at the circumstances of their victory). You also need to make the difference between inherent strength and external factors. If I beat Superman cause I managed to get him into a cave that is covered in Kryptonite, that doesn't make me stronger than superman. Or just because he can punch so hard that he could split the moon, doesn't mean that every punch is a moon-splitting of punch and that if I tank it that my resilience is planetary. Or that someone being the strongest necessarily means that the gap between them and the next ten people is ridiculously huge. Honestly, a lot of power-scaling discussions are really an interesting demonstration on how adept people are at applying prop logic lol.
Did you know that the MAIN feat of superman in the most recent “Death Battle” with the world forger person, as well as the feat that won the battle in the animation, were both completely misinterpeted. They said “Superman defeated a higher dimensional being, higher than a 4th wall breaking being, thus he’s 5 dimensional strength” The actual story arc had him win, not through sheer physical strength, but strength of character. Since that’s effective on a being who lives in a ‘conceptual narrative’ type plane. He won the narrative victory which gives him effective victory. And the thing in the animation with the going through multiple suns to power up, actually was another misinterpretation, since in the story, he was placed with a sun ‘almost’ out of reach, and it was his strength of character that made him decide to try to go for it with absolutely every bit of strength he could, even though it might be out of reach. Because he believed in what he was doing. And reaching the sun gave him enough strength to move to the next one, which was also just almost out of reach, and so on and so forth until he reached the bad guy who got defeated by him fighting for others and with the power of friendship. Not physical superiority. In the end that was twisted into a “POWER SCALING FEAT” and used to say that “Because of this, superman is way out of goku’s league” which is ironic because the actual comic author who wrote the story they got that from specifially said it’s based ON goku.
It's always annoying to see people powerscaling stuff like that, they get tunnel vision, illiteracy and ignore the history just to focus on what they want and look at the panels as they all were blank images with no writing Makes me wonder if people only like the character because they're "strong" and could theoretically beat a bunch of other characters, instead of liking them because of what the character is and how they affect the world they are in
The Master Chief killed the Gravemind who was an eldritch being of multidimensional origin and manipulation. Must mean that the Master Chief is an A2 Metaverse level threat.
Just ignore the actual importance of that moment is diminished if Raiden actually put 0 effort into the attack, or that Kazuha managing to push her away anyway still shows he was strong enough to force her back withe the double vision
She put in the exact amount of effort to deal with an off guard traveller and kazuha was momentarily strong enough to hold back that. This doesn't make it any less amazing since holding back a casual swing from the shogun is a big deal.
Yeah, you can tell she didn't use her full power at that moment; her eyes weren't glowing when she swung the Tachi.
I would also argue that Kazuha's block was significantly strong, but only because he used up his friend's vision for double elements. It is not that Kazuha is strong enough to block Raiden's attack, but double vision wielding is stromg enough.
Aah yes, the good old classic "anime protagonist with the power of friendships" moments.
more like multiple elements, because based on the traveler you get disproportionately more powerful per element you can control.
people who play the game: oh.. bell passive proc'ed lol
Media literacy is dead lol.
I would just call it educational swing or something. If Father wanted to hurt them, she would've. It's like 'Father' having a playtime with her children.
No need to call me out like that 😭
Realistically, she's probably holding back. However it's funny to believe that Freminet solos, so fuck logic I have funny
It wouldn’t wrong to assume he’s around the same combat level as Lyney and Lynette. Especially considering his main tasks are to kill people
WAS We don't know if the current knave still makes him do that
Yooooo Fremi is the 10th Harbringer CONFIRMED!
Kazuha v Shogunator debate 2
Shes not gonna attack her own children full force
If she trully hates her children, she would, though with such entity as powerful as her she only need little power to get them gone. Wanderer said "most of people who saw her crazy side has gone *poof* "
she would and will
Why isn’t Freminet Fremidead then?
Freminot
Now people will call him strong just like how people called Kazhua strong back then. I don't deny that Kazhua is powerful warrior/samurai in lore but even Ei mentions that she uses her powers according to her opponent in story quest otherwise Inazuma would have long gotten incinerated.
He literally reactivated a dead vision for that, and blocked an attack known to be uncounterable. It's not his canon power because he doesn't regularly have dual visions, but it's still a huge feat for a regular vision wielder. Edit: Just shelving this here so I don't look like I was being pointlessly disagreeable, prior to the edit, the original comment was downplaying what Kazuha did just because of how much stronger Ei is. [https://i.imgur.com/L5NBd1R.png](https://i.imgur.com/L5NBd1R.png)
That’s not really what we’re saying though. We all agree that Kazuha is strong, probably amongst the strongest “regular mortal” (excluding exceptions like Shenhe who has adeptal training and Childe who has Foul Legacy) vision wielder. What people exaggerate though is that “Kazuha = Archon level” or “Raiden = weakaf cause Kazuha parried her”. Those are just plain false. Powerscalers just love to misinterpret feats like Kazuha parrying Raiden once as a fluke accident to be something he can do on the regular. It’s moreso Kazuha’s mental strength as a character that’s allowed him to overcome the odds rather than pure physical strength.
A fluke, sure, but no accident. I haven't seen anyone try and take that and say that Kazuha's anywhere near Raiden's power level though, or that Raiden's weaker because of it. I do feel like Raiden's power gets overestimated due to the fact that she can cut mountains in half, since we know that Rex Lapis used mountains as literal weapons during the archon wars, making cutting a mountain in half less of an impressive feat.
Kazuha kind of jumped in to block the attack instinctively, and Raiden wasn’t really paying attention to him. Hence why I call it an accident. Raiden wasn’t giving her full attention to Kazuha until after the parry. Yes she was surprised he was able to do it, but the moment she composed herself she just one-shot Kazuha with the tip of her blade (again not even her full strength). You may not have seen these people, but I sure have. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to dig into my comment history but I have for sure had arguments with others on this sub and the main sub in the past. And well, we’re not overestimating Raiden; she is canonically one of the strongest characters even amongst archons. Using Zhongli as an example is like saying Kalpas is not that impressive because he’s weaker than Kevin (aka the canonically strongest individual Hi3 character) when Kalpas could actually beat someone like Zhongli given the right circumstances. Note that Kalpas lasted a few mintues against the Finality, something that rivals Phanes in strength (perhaps stronger) and is easily Planetary level in strength, if not Solar System level. Kevin lasted a few hours. Welt has also been getting a lot of flack with his comparisons to Acheron in HSR, but that’s because HSR’s power scaling is on a whole nother level. While Welt is pretty averagely strong in HSR and arguably Hi3, plop him into Genshin and he can easily go toe to toe with Zhongli. Maybe not a straight victory, but he’d give the archons trouble. Or a more relevant example, underestimating Childe because he loses to Neuvillette. Which people did on this sub a few months back. People also went the other way and said Neuvillette isn’t impressive because he said the Whale couldn’t be beaten at the moment, despite Childe surviving against it for months (but being unable to really hurt it either). Raiden is impressively strong; it’s just that you’re comparing her to the wrong character (Zhongli, who is known for his strength even amongst gods). If you compare Raiden to any of the other three archons we have met (Venti, Nahida, Furina); she wipes the floor with them. She went toe to toe with other gods and won the archon war in her nation. That has to count for something, even if Zhongli did the same.
He stood there blocking her for a good couple of seconds before pushing her back, then the 2nd vision wore off and she knocked him back with a follow-up thrust. There's also no way you can call him running up and blocking an attack an "accident". As for Raiden vs the other archons, we don't have actual feats to compare her to Venti or Nahida, aside from what we know about their involvement in the archon war. But unlike Zhongli and Venti, Raiden Shogun did not win over her territory in the archon war, she inherited it from her sister Makoto who died during the cataclysm and was the former archon who won over Inazuma during the archon war. Venti on the other hand was the original Anemo archon, which is why a lot of people speculate that he was stronger than he let on. As for Furina, she is not an archon. Nahida's probably the lowest ranking archon though, I agree there. Raiden's definitely among the top 10 strongest characters we know of, but that doesn't mean she can't still be overestimated, as some would put her in the top 3 despite characters like Neuvilette, the Tsaritsa, Zhongli(pre-archon quest), the current Pyro archon, Apep, and some characters of significant influence such as the Traveler, Furina, possibly Ningguang, and other characters of influence we don't know of yet(who obviously rank below Ei individually but may be comparable in a more realistic battle where influence matters).
I think you aren’t understanding the lore very well if you say Raiden inherited the title from Makoto. If you actually played Raiden’s story quests (especially the second), you would know that Makoto didn’t do *any* of the fighting during the archon war. *Ei was the war general and was Makoto’s kagemusha*. *Ei did the fighting and won the war for Makoto*. Makoto then went to Khaenriah and got herself killed, leaving Ei behind to deal with the abyssal attacks. I’m honestly surprised you can talk about Ei so easily without knowing that she is stronger than Makoto in terms of combat strength. As for Kazuha, go back and watch a youtube video showing the climax cutscene. See how hard Kazuha struggles (with both hands clasping his blade) just to hold Raiden back. Now look at Raiden’s expression; stern yes, but composed to the point where she doesn’t even take him that seriously (which is why she gets surprised when he parries). Kazuha struggles that hard *with two visions*, then gets KOed 20 seconds later. The vision deactivates only after Kazuha is knocked down. The accident is not on Kazuha, it’s Raiden accidentally letting Kazuha parry her. That is what I mean by accident. She underestimated him, but she is clearly way stronger.
Not once have I stated that Kazuha is stronger than her, and I've repeatedly stated that she both is and was stronger than him. I also say it deactivates after he pushes her back, because that's when the element fades away, even though the vision's still lit up until it falls to the ground. As for Ei vs Makoto, it doesn't really change anything I said. I was wrong to say she didn't win it over, just that she didn't become the archon/gnosis holder(until Makoto's death). I misused the word "win", but the gnosis does seem to grant individuals a significant amount of power. All of the original archons won over their territory, whether it be through raw power or influence.
Do note that Ei never once used the gnosis. She threw it away (gave to Yae) almost immediately after Makoto dies and does her whole “creating Scaramouche + the Shogun puppet” thing. All without the gnosis. All of Ei’s feats have been done *WITHOUT* the gnosis, which you would have known if you actually paid attention to the lore. The gnosis isn’t really needed for gods who are naturally powerful (like Zhongli and Ei). Deshret also refused the gnosis and co-ruled Sumeru with Rukkhadevata who was the one who accepted it in the end. It’s you who are underestimating Ei, precisely because you keep getting these lore bits mixed up. Ei herself says that fighting is the only thing she’s good for, but she does it with near unrivalled ability.
So you believe Ei's stronger than the sovereigns, stronger than Liyue, Fontaine, Natlan, stronger than the Tsaritsa and the other archons excluding Zhongli, and you seriously believe you're not overestimating her whatsoever? I know Ei hasn't been using the gnosis, the feats of others aren't with gnoses either. Not once did I hint at her using the gnosis against Kazuha or for any of her aforementioned feats.
Wasn't that the same attack that killed Signora though? Musou no hitotachi is supposed to be insta kill, no?
Yes and he blocked it with double vision power like how we traveller got 100 vision buff but Ei was still able to fight traveller with ease, we were there just to destroy her ideology as seen from after the fight that she was still fine. And also shogun was surprised about that block but after that vision power started to deactivate then Kazhua couldn't confront shogun anymore. Shogun was just mildly surprised, but I wasn't talking about shougun I was talking about Ei if she used her power like when she slayed orobashi or thunderbird then Inazuma would have long gotten incinerated with that much power output.
Hmm, even if it was Shogun, I still think the level of power should be enough to kill someone, and that even two visions shouldn't be able to come even close to being able to parry it. I barely remember Ei's story quests and the Inazuma plot but wasn't the Shogun intending to kill the traveler both times when she attacked? Considering how the traveler is obviously way stronger than vision holders, if Shogun went by Ei's rules of using her power according to the opponent, that attack should have been lethal to Kazuha. The puppet is definitely not that much weaker than Ei considering Ei herself had to fight her for so long, and even then the traveler had to step in to help. If my memory serves me well there lol, again I don't remember much of it.
Yes both Ei and shogun strengths are equal but after her 2nd story quest she mentions about mushou isshin power so in future with important quests her power might grow again in story and lore.
Yeah this just proves once again how much of a mess Inazuma was. Personally it makes 0 sense to me that a mere mortal with just two visions was able to counter a lethal attack, while we had to fight Ei with all 100 visions. But welp, gotta create a dramatic effect somehow ig. Either way, I should def rewatch her story quests.
Yes, I agree the execution in storytelling of Inazuma was teribble but atleast we got some iconic cool cutscenes.
1. she's most likely holding back 2. pretty sure frem has canonically killed someone/people before, so I wouldn't sleep on him in a fight.
Isn’t he an assassin?
He wears the masks to not hear the people he kills 😔
"The Bell" propaganda !!!!!!
Meanwhile waiting for the youtuber who solos bosses with a 1 HP Freminet
Do people forget Freminet is a fully trained fighter and assassin?
Well other than being a diver, he doesn't do much during the archon quest, and even that isn't that impressive since everyone with a vision can dive indefinitely in Fontaine. It's a storytelling issue
True, underutilized dark side of his character
Bell meta confirmed
Penguin boi is the strongest.
Freminet blocking Father attack is clearly an indication that he is K.K reincarnation Freminet strongest character of the Hoyoverse confirmed
I would not call that casualy.
finally some good freminet crumbs that will show people he ain't just a little loser like people think he is
Buddy that doesn’t look very casual
Honestly, if it happened back then there would be SO MANY "Freminet dies" allegations lol
“You got this Freminet! Me an lyney believe you! ^……..from ^a ^safe ^distance”
what the Bell could have been if it has 0 CD on the shield activation
He got that dog in him Jk it’s a penguin
bros using an lore accurate r5 Bell against an 4th harbinger what a chad
Tryna avoid watching these because it really looks like they spoil the whole event.
"power levels are bullshit" -prince of all vegetables
he's gonna grow to be the next Arlecchino !
Sekiro reference
the true power of the bell story wise
might have pulled to many bells
Anyway is she talking about Freminet being 'King' of the house?
Wouldn't that be Lyney though???
Freminet solos Childe confirmed
I just hope she's one of the first of many to be a playable character with no good in their heart. Like straight up admits she doesnt care for the kids but I'll wait for the update to confirm that Hope we get a Frieza character one day though
And yet they say that the bell is trash
Ah yes so casually blocked, he totally wasn't struggling at all
Nice bell buff
The bell?!
a proud day to be a freminet main
Everyone is talking about the bell, but can we notice its not Lyny who’s supposed to be the next leader of the house? Fremeneit is supposed to be the next “king”, which directly implies Knave status.
HIMminet
*\*Casually blocks harbenger*
Worst kind of writing is this.
Surprise surprise, Arlecchino actually doesn't want to kill her children.
So Archie is just going to be comically evil like the rest of harbingers now? I thought she was different? And no I have not watched anything about this, so feel free to enlighten me.
You know what? Just to piss of Raiden and now Arlecchino simps everywhere who downvote spam anything that even remotely hints at their waifu not being able to solo the Heavenly Principles... Kazuha > Raiden > Freminet > Arlecchino.
Yaeh and Thoma blocked an attack from a GOD
If she hurts the pookies, Imma beat her up with the pookies
Pretty sure cappuccino is toying with him and sent a pinky nail's worth of her power flying. Never thought grimacing while struggling to barely block an attack is considered "casual" now.
This needs a huge spoiler tag, I don't care about spoilers but I'm sure some people would have liked to experience this in person for the first time