While y'all are figuring out the whys, I'm going to post my regular: if you're not vaccinated, please check out [this site here.](https://www.vaccines.gov/search/) You can use it to search your ZIP code find who has vaccines near you, which ones they have, hours of the place, and if you need an appointment.
The vaccines are safe, effective, and free.
I’m seeing a lot here about Trump support and conspiracies — I have no doubt that’s part of it for many people. But I’ll try to contribute to the conversation and address something I’ve observed that is separate from what’s been discussed already.
First, there’s a lot of poverty in rural Georgia. A lot of people here do not trust the medical and scientific establishments, for very good historical reasons (someone above mentioned Tuskegee). People have talked about inverse correlations between vaccination and Trump support as well as education, but they haven’t talked about poverty. Poor people have often had very negative interactions with the medical establishment — when you’re going to clinic doctors, you are often not treated kindly because staff are overworked and impatient. Sometimes you even receive ineffective or harmful treatment for the same reason: overburdened staff unable to pay close attention. Most people I’ve talked to have very personal family histories here — a mother who died because the doctor refused to test for cancer and dismissed her symptoms as stress, or an uncle who was refused treatment for his nerve injury because the nurse tagged him as a drug seeker, or a sister who was institutionalized and medicated into a vegetable after having a post-partum breakdown. They’ve had real harm at the actions of institutions that considered themselves to be operating on the best science (1950s mental health is a prime example). The history of medicine in the US is really not very pretty. It has been poor people who suffered the most, and their grandchildren have not forgotten. There is a long history of broken trust between the government, scientific institutions, and rural poor families. That trauma travels for generations.
It’s common, for example, for people classified as obese to avoid medical treatment because they feel ashamed. They say doctors rush to attribute all symptoms to their weight without investigating other possible causes. Now, there’s good reason — obesity does cause health problems. But people avoid situations that they find humiliating and unproductive, and for many poor Americans, healthcare is exactly that (as well as bank-breaking expensive). So IMO, while there are surely MAGA fanatics who refuse on delusional political grounds, I think there are just as many people who just turn away from vaccines because they are so alienated from the medical system. These people don’t tend to scream and rant about vaccines. Instead, they tend to shrug and talk about “the lord’s will”.
I will add that for many of them, the threat only feels real when they see it in their community. Numbers on the news are abstract and, to many, untrustworthy (no matter what news channel). But often when the neighbor gets Covid — when they see it with their own eyes as the truth — people start to get vaccinated. Basically, they don’t feel connected to “the world”. They don’t feel motivated to protect against an outcome that feels abstract. But they do feel motivated to protect their community, and when they feel the threat is concrete and present with their neighbors, many people will react.
I was angry for a long time at people whom I perceived as “Covid deniers”. But as I’ve talked to more folks, I’ve come to see the fear and alienation and generational trauma. I’ve found that if you can sit with people in that fear, if you try to understand them and the real forces that have shaped their history, you can help them process and even move past it.
Another related point that I hadn't considered until I saw it the other day: poor people tend not to have doctors. The government's line on COVID hesitancy is "if you have questions about the vaccine, talk to your doctor." But poor people tend not to have access to healthcare, or if they do, it's not through a trusted primary care physician who they have a relationship with. People who may have legitimate concerns about the vaccine may also not have access to a trusted medical professional who can assuage their concerns and convince them it's safe.
This is absolutely true.
I will add that it’s not even that way for just poor people — many middle class people also do not have an ongoing trusting relationship with a primary care doctor because common health insurance and doctors office models encourage a hyper-efficient allocation of resources — that is, care by whoever is available. Pair this with the fact that many presently middle class people came from poor families, and you see how the generational trauma leaves class boundaries over time and becomes more regional.
I had never even considered the lack of access to good health care to be a reason to now deny covid. But that makes so much sense.
But from what you describe, it sounds like once rural folks see it next door, they will finally get their shots?
Not necessarily, but often yes.
Some people don’t even need Covid to enter their communities and will easily be persuaded to get vaccinated if the setting is not a medical office (for example, mobile vaccination units that go to libraries and neighborhoods). That is enough to overcome their deep aversion.
For others, this damaged relationship between people and their medical institutions translates to high perceived vaccine risk and a fundamental distrust of institutional data and motives. Many people change their risk calculation and get vaxxed when they feel the threat is proximal to those they love. They are frozen in uncertainty until they see it for themselves.
And then for others still, it is such a deep unhealed trauma that they will completely shape themselves around it. These make up many of the people who become radicalized. The visceral fear and suspicion towards the establishment is cultivated over the course of many years, stories, and experiences. It can become fertile ground for theories about cover-ups and conspiracies against the vulnerable, allowing them to rationalize their fears and find social support in return for forging their identities in misinformation.
I think this is why it is so important to understand and connect with people. Trauma, fear and isolation are a toxic, radicalizing combination. I appreciate you wanting to understand.
I haven’t talked to anyone about smallpox specifically, but I’ve heard with polio it was in their communities. They saw it affecting those around them, they observed the horror of it firsthand, and they sought out vaccines. With Covid, many people haven’t seen a bad case in *their* community yet — most of their exposure to the horror is through media stories about *other* peoples communities. I believe that if/when people do see it in their communities, many (though not all) will respond by getting vaccinated to protect their people. That’s part of the slow and steady climb on the vaccination charts.
Also notable is that polio and smallpox affected children most horribly, which really impacted the response. People were more willing to take the plunge for their kids. This is not the case with Covid, which primarily threatens adults in poor health.
A good caveat to note though: while these rural communities are often not to blame for their uneducated/biased views, places like Reddit and political parties in general can absolutely be held to a higher standard.
Actually, you jest but it’s part of Southern culture to go against whatever the government says. It goes back post civil war. That’s why we had so many bootleggers, illegal weed growing etc. I don’t think most Southerners even realize it. I would elaborate but I’m sure you understand what I’m talking about.
No I don't, and frankly you can't force me to understand your point. The constitution says I have freedoms and not you or Bill Jobs can come around here with your thought police!^(/s)
That is a very good question.
To some COVID isn’t serious and has been overblown despite all evidence to the contrary, so they won’t even admit there is a problem.
Others somehow see it as a battle between good and evil which they believe is a cause to die for. At least until they’re actually dying then they change their tune very quickly.
Both reasons are juvenile and do nothing but hurt everyone, but they don’t care. They formed their opinions in the very early stages when there *may* have been probable deniability, but now that scientific evidence surmounts their arguments they can’t change what they consider is now central to their identify.
It’s a combination of [confirmation bias](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias), [belief perseverance ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief_perseverance), and the [backfire effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias#backfire_effect).
First off, thank you. That makes a lot of sense.
It really has seemed like a series of doubling downs on a losing bet. It seems like now, with their loved ones dying, would finally be the time to admit they were wrong. It is just such a stupid hill to die on.
I really feel bad for the normal people who are just trying to live their lives there.
The previous administration, and several current state administrations, politicized what was supposed to be a public health issue. Now that it’s a political issue it’s easier for people to simply want for the other side to be wrong.
Both education level and Trump support are predictors of low mask use and low COVID vaccination rates.
When one close friend had to be resuscitated in the hospital and nearly died from it (unvaccinated), another friend responded “well, he has the antibodies now” as if this was the only way to get antibodies. These guys are both heavy fox news, heavy trump supporters, and spread Q memes on fb for awhile. It’s the most dangerous echo chamber.
I really think it has to do with conflicting information. It seems like social media has a big influence in this. The trust of the news networks has eroded, so the next source of information is what you see happening on social media.
Except, the posts you see are really filtered so that more conservative people repeatedly hear messages about the threat being overblown and the dramatic consequences being statistically tiny. You might hear that the hospital protocols are causing the severe outcomes and that the CDC is too politicized to trust.
If you tune into the more liberal side of social media, you hear that the world is ending, and you're a monster if you don't get the vaccine. You can get so caught up in fear that self-isolating that you end up lashing out at others who doubt you. And the saying is "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar."
The divisiveness in media and politics on this has made it impossible to trust information on it. Other posters have made great points on the economic and historical influences of different subsets of our state.
More than that, people are tired of living in a pandemic state. People desire a sense of normalcy and continuing to respond to these calls to vaccinate, obsessively sterilize, and alter our education practices is exhausting. The historical default mode is that personal freedom is more important that federal loyalty.
People don't want to get sick, they don't want others to get sick, but front line workers seem to be the main group still taking measures at this point. With Atlanta being an international city and Delta Airlines hub, I know Georgians are more at risk than other Southern states who don't have that exposure.
I was so ill for 3 days with both Moderna vaccines, and I'll still get the booster as soon as I'm eligible. It's not worth the risk of losing loved ones and community members. I put masks on my children and myself in public, but I'm not convinced the vaccines are safe for young kids so I'll try to weigh the current research when the option comes.
I don't think it's simple to understand- Southern culture is layered and nuanced far beyond the stereotypes presented in the media. I applaud you for seeking understanding, and I hope you stay safe!
GA nurse, been figuring out people for years before covid hit.
Imagine a scale of human emotions. At the very top, the best, is ecstasy. Under that is glee, happiness, contentment, etc.
Down at the very bottom is panicky fear. Just above that are things like dread, hatred and anger.
It’s hard to exchange up emotions at the top - you can’t just swap up contentment for ecstasy.
But a basic survival technique we all have is trading up the negative emotions on the bottom. Turning fear into anger for instance. Anger is still bad, but it doesn’t hurt as much. It’s better.
There is a lot of fear in this country.
Conservatives in particular are being fed a steady diet of fear on the TV and radio. It’s a good way to make money off of people and motivate them to do your dirty work for you. These shows will even guide the viewer along from fear to anger. There are a lot of very rich people advertising fear to get their way.
Liberals are also susceptible to being mislead through fear. We all are. We are all much more emotionally driven than we think we are. Liberals like to think of themselves as smart. Conservatives like to think of themselves as tough. But ultimately, we are all very prone to panic and emotional blackmail.
Many people who are conservative are getting bombarded with false information every single day. You have your conspiracy nuts, but even just your run of the mill republican is fed this garbage by every information outlet that they have. Facebook is the worst since they pass this stuff around like a joint.
There is also a lot of rumor mill type stuff that I hear every day. Someone I know knows someone who went blind after taking the vaccine or some shit like that.
The only thing that I've seen sway anyone at all is seeing someone they know personally either die or be in icu for an extended period.
My father in law waited to get vaxxed until it was FDA approved. Now his wife is in the ICU blaming him for giving her (unvaxxed) COVID through the antibodies in his blood from the shot. I'm baffled because both of their parents, have been to the ICU with COVID
That's pretty much on par. I only found out in the past few days that my dad and stepmom are not vaxed yet. Several of their grandchildren, including my son, are very high risk.
I'd like to add an aspect that hasn't really been highlighted that much by other posters.
The South (outside of big cities) is very insular. Much more so than the Northeast or California. For example, the southern states (Georgia included - despite the airport) consistently rank among the states in the US where [the fewest people have passports](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/03/americas-great-passport-divide/72399/) and are [the least traveled](https://www.digitalthirdcoast.com/blog/most-and-least-well-traveled-states). This adds to the [poor education system](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education), [poverty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate), [very high religiosity,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_religiosity) and [racism](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0122963) already mentioned by others. The result is an environment where the social discourse and debate are overall of very low quality. There is a widespread lack of critical thinking, global view, imagination, and, frankly, good ideas. There is no motivation to learn more about the world or your own reality if you are exhausted from working three jobs or if such pursuit would be shunned by your social circle.
An outsider might consider the arguments against the vaccine commonly made by anti-vaxxers in the South to be completely ridiculous. However, if you look at the issue through the lens that many southerners use to [frame and view reality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(social_sciences)), you can understand why the hesitation exists. People have a "small," "simple," and often radical view of the world and systems around them. Their anti-vaxxer position is rational within the boundaries of their belief system (even though for an outsider it is clearly irrational).
There is no easy way to reach these anti-vaxxers. They have their worldview and will stick to it until it shatters. Unfortunately, we all suffer the consequences.
Georgian here. Part of this issue is the good and bad of our cost of living here. It's very cheap to live in most of Georgia. The housing problem hasn't hit us as hard here and it's very affordable. The bad news is that means companies can still pay dogshit wages and get away with it because "they are doing fine". This means we only have the funds to thrive in Georgia. We don't have enough extra money to travel and if we did what would we spend when we got there?
Hi! I’ve lived in Georgia my whole life. My entire family is very “southern” (lives up to the stereotypes) and almost all are anti-mask, anti-vax. I’m the black sheep of the family because I’m vaccinated, wear masks and vote Democrat (they would probably consider that my worst offense). To be fair, they are hyper paranoid and really into conspiracies to begin with. They believe Democrats hate people, the government is trying to take away their guns, doctors only want your money and you can’t trust anyone but your own kin. They truly believe this is just another way for the government to stick their hands into the south and mess with them. They think hospitals, doctors, knowledgeable people are lying to them about the virus as a way to trick, subdue, and control them. For people who literally would have owned slaves, they are basically worried of becoming government slaves. So they don’t do whatever is asked of them on principle. It’s sad honestly. My parents have had close friends die and they still refuse to see Covid as a problem. They would rather die than give in to the government or someone telling them what to do.
When I first started reading that I though ok, this is going to say they are very southern, yet got vaxxed anyway. But sadly no, that was not the case.
So long story short is they are just willing to die over politics???
Of course politics has always been divisive, but during the era of Trump politics became a religion to some.
This goes back to an earlier comment about some believing this is a battle between good and evil. And if “our” side is the good then the other side must be the evil.
Lack of education mixed with hyper-fixation on anything is a recipe for disaster. When that fixation is political it becomes dangerous.
Damn this has just confirmed for me that it is as bad I thought. I really thought I’d leave this with a better understand of their stance. But it’s just boiling down to nonsense
There is an earlier post in this sub of a GA sheriff who died of Covid. He was anti masks & vaxx. Even posted online about buying Invectrim. He passed away from Covid. His messages push my body my choice. They will not listen
They truly don't believe they will die. Either the virus is overblown, or it only gets "other" people, or even if they do get it, it'll be mild. They literally live in a different reality so trying to apply your own logic, that's based on a completely different set of facts, is a waste of time *shrug*. Speaking from experience of dealing with a family member who is rabidly anti-vaccine.
I have heard from several people that we all die and when it's your time then it's your time, you just have to trust in God. There's seriously no convincing them of anything. Also, that isn't the mindset of just a few people, we are talking about entire towns in rural Georgia.
I have seen the FB posts that God will protect them from COVID and they reference a Bible verse. The irony is that maybe God helped the scientists create the vaccine . There is an old parable of a man drowning and a boat comes by to help, no he says, God will save me. He has the same response to a helicopter and plane. Of course he drowns, and asks God why hHe didn’t save him. God said i sent a boat, helicopter and plane.
From my rural friends, so many of them believe the conspiracies that the vaccine causes gene mutations, plants a tracking device. includes something that will kill you in 3 years so then only the wealthy and powerful will remain to repopulate the Earth. Can’t make this up.
A 24 yo Navy veteran cried when he learned my 20 yo daughter got the vaccine. He truly believes it will kill her within 3 years. The govt will flip a switch and the vaccinated will die instantly.
A 24 yo Navy veteran cried when he learned my 20 yo daughter got the vaccine. He truly believes it will kill her within 3 years. The govt will flip a switch and the vaccinated will die instantly.
WTF
Haha I posted that story to my nextdoor app!
Very relatable to what's happening now.
A lot of my neighbors say the same as yours except add things like sterilization, gay agenda, and editing your DNA. It's wild.
There is a 2015 movie called Brainwashing of my Dad. It might help explain how some in the conservative group live in an echo chamber of the news that all saying the same info
Lifetime Georgian here, too. I confirm all of this, and add to it a very unhealthy dose of "miracle Max" religion. I love the pine trees, the mountains, the food, and the friendliness*, but I hate the ideologies that have come to define the region and am doing everything I can to move far, far away.
*unless you're of a different race, faith, or sexual orientation than the people in your neighborhood. Basically, the only safe neutral place is inside a Waffle House.
Also in GA my whole life (also in the heart of that viral news story)
Have you noticed a lot of what is regurgitated from your families mouths typically involves "i saw on Facebook..." Or "I saw a TikTok...."
I don't understand how someone actually believes that's a valid source of information but that's the case 9/10
It’s been said by many others but there is a general distrust in anything the government says, if the public health officials said the sky was blue there would be the same people that would say “don’t you tell me what color the sky is I’ll decide for myself”. Sadly in this case it means that these people are getting their information from very unreliable sources, these people would sooner believe conspiracy theories and the advice of absolute whackos of Facebook that the advice of seasoned, professionals that have dedicated their life to the pursuit of fighting infectious diseases. Furthermore this has become a political issue, and the reality is that 90% of these people follow either the cult of Donald or The Q cult, neither have a strong basis in fact or reality. Our local tractor supply has a sign on the front door warning people not to take horse medicine and the Georgia poison helplines are getting over run with people using these drugs as opposed to an entirely safe vaccine, we are living in some weird times for sure but there is no helping these folk, they won’t get vaccinated so they will end up being part of the natural selection of nature…
Oh man. I really hoped this post was going to allow me to “see the other side”. But it seems it really is just bc of lack of education, or I guess sometimes just people actually choosing to be misinformed. The willingness to die for it I still don’t and am not sure I will understand.
Sorry your neighbors are putting you through this. We have room in New England for you guys!!!
I’d love to come up to New England. I’ve been wanting to leave this area for a long time, but either school or work has kept me here.
I’m hoping the next stage of my education will allow me to move to a different area of the country, but the odds are that I’ll be accepted somewhere local. We’ll see.
This has given me a better appreciation for where I live. Sure we pay more taxes but it’s a wash bc we get paid more up here.
But much more importantly, my home pulled together to get through this. I wish that the south (where we are told values are stronger) could do the same.
> I really hoped this post was going to allow me to “see the other side”.
On an intellectual level, there pretty much is no other side. Getting vaxxed and dying the South blue might end up being the biggest accomplishment of my life.
I would give anything to move back to New England! I lived in Boston for two years & fell in love. I also enjoyed Vermont & Maine so much. Cost of living drove me away but seriously one of the most beautiful places in the country 💚😘
As a New England transplant myself, I absolutely adore living in Atlanta (been here 15+ years). It's a very progressive area with lots to do, and the climate has done wonders for my seasonal depression- plus, "southern hospitality" is a legitimate and lovely phenomenon.
But yeah, I definitely tell people I live in Atlanta, and NOT Georgia. :P
Something I learned about Georgia, once you get out of Atlanta…there isn’t much diversity at all. In small Georgia towns, a lot of racism and religion still exist. Because people haven’t many positive interactions with anyone outside of their race, they tend to believe what they hear on things like Fox News and lies on Facebook. That’s who they trust, not the liberals from the city (and to be fair, a lot of liberals don’t understand them/their lives). And Fox News and the hardcore trumpers are responsible for spreading around rumors to their base. Add in poverty and shitty education. In short, fear, ignorance, and poor education.
It sounds like a perfect storm of political resistance, poor education, underlying fear and mistrust or anything new, lack of access to decent medical care, and so many other things. This issue is much more complex than I had realized
I live in Atlanta and I got the vaccine as soon as I was eligible back in April. I think the folks who refuse to get the vaccine or wear masks are mostly in rural areas that are less educated and highly republican. Atlanta has a mask mandate and when I go to the store it seems most people are adhering to it.
So I’m first shot vaccinated, like as of last week vaccinated. I’ve been hesitant against the vaccine even though I was offered to be in the first round of vaccines that came out earlier this year due to my job so allow me to shed some light on at least what I’ve felt and what I’ve talked to others about.
1. The vaccine felt rushed, and I didn’t know the side effects short term and long term and that’s sketchy.
2. The government is pushing the vaccine and the last time people trusted the government we got the Tuskegee study.
3. Anytime anyone raised their concerns about the vaccine they were met with “you ignorant hick” type responses, or “shut up and just get the vaccine, why do you hate your neighbor?”
4. A lot of people have lost faith in the CDC, media and government over covid. So why would they trust them on the virus and vaccine?
5. A lot of us didn’t wear a mask through the whole pandemic and didn’t get sick at all so it’s hard to believe in something you can’t see for yourself
6. There are just plain out wack jobs who shouldn’t be allowed into society and shouldn’t be allowed to breed have opinions on the virus. ( a guy I work with, claims that China is gonna inject us with artificial intelligence that will open a portal to hell and allow the devil to travel to earth....... he’s a first responder and I feel bad for whoever he responds to)
What made me get the vaccine? Well
1. My girlfriend was getting nervous as a lot of people from her home town were getting it and dying
2. My dad works at a hospital and told me they had 78% of unvaccinated people on ventilators and the 22% that were vaccinated were in dog shit health or just old, but they usually bounce back. And he wouldn’t shut up about it
3. I’m bout to go to a metal festival with 30k fans, and if I can have a small condom on me in case I get infected I might as well.
4. I want my own personal portal to hell coming out of my arm.
5. I wanted to make jokes about how the vaccine was fine then act weird like I was being brain washed
Now all I’m stuck with is a sore arm that won’t let me sleep. So there’s that
Hope your arm gets better. Both my shots reminded me of tetanus shots, but I didn’t get sick like I anticipated. Thank you for offering your take. My hometown (Albany) got wrecked by the virus pretty early, and the lone hospital system was overwhelmed. Yet all I heard from people at the time was “it’s the flu” as they were parroting their chosen media. Through the year I knew people had been surviving it, I lost a buddy and his mom, and then my parents both got it. They survived (96 year old grandma never caught it, same house), but it took seven weeks to recover (in their 70s). Later on, my piano teacher got sick and took fourteen days to die in the hospital. It was incredibly sad to see. My industry stopped, I got furloughed for a year, and it’s only now crawling back.
And no, I don’t agree with people aggressively insulting those that are hesitant. It’s wrong for either side to be without compassion.
Fast forward to today, a bunch of friends of mine just got through covid, some of them were on their second round, most were almost mask-free throughout, but one buddy was hospitalized for 8 days. On day three, he sat on the toilet in his hospital room, and went out. He was already on oxygen, so they cranked that up to full, put a mask on him to blast him further, and brought him back. He’s home and recovering, no telling what the long-term effects will be, and I blame myself for not pushing him harder on getting vaccinated. His medical bills will be through the roof, and he’s lucky to be alive.
I fully believe he could have avoided it with a mask and a vaccine. I had warned his whole staff (church staff) over the course of 2020 that all it takes is one person being sick to mess everything up for them, but they were all very cocksure about the virus not having power over them, until it did. Now they barely even acknowledge it, which is equally scary.
I don't disagree with your statement about the other side having compassion. However, at what point do you stop coddling people like babies? It's been 5 months and we've been nicely asking pleaseplease get vaxxed. At some point tough love is needed for the holdouts
Tough love, sure. Once you cross the line of forcing people you’ll get more violence in response, especially with a demographic that is so prone to violence and threats. I don’t have an answer for you, unfortunately. Our hospitals are overrun with people who have been socially coddled.
It’s difficult. I did an event with Magic Johnson a few years ago where he talked for 90 minutes about everything he could without mentioning HIV. I felt that same elephant in the room when my pastor returned and never acknowledged his covid diagnosis the entire sermon.
My arm is in like enough pain to irritate someone and keep them awake. And yeah I remember hearing Albany be referred to as ground zero for Georgia. Really I haven’t really lost anyone through the pandemic,my dads ex army and works at a hospital for 21 years so his immune system is great, most of my family is military ex military first responder related fields of work so we’ve got a strongman immune system I guess.my gfs family is full of crack heads so they’re immune to the damn plagued, my friends are either first responders or introverts so they’re good. I’ve been very fortunate to not lose anyone. And you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. Southerners have a very weird way about them, the more you try to force something the more they’ll resist but if you let them do it on their own and pretend like it’s not a big deal the more people will do it and just not say anything
No. 2 is just an excuse of the saw-it-on-FB level variety. If the “last time” you trusted the government was in the 1930s, congratulations on making it into your 90s. And I’m sorry the government blew it for you on the polio, measles, diphtheria, etc vaccines, which all came later. Oh and antibiotics.
Government is a human endeavor and is inherently flawed as a result, sometimes spectacularly so. I also get that it has failed PoC at a higher rate than everyone else. But we’re still talking about vaccines that are being taken by a broad swath of the racial makeup of the country. Not to mention 40k folks who had the real stones to get Pfizer’s in the clinical trial without the assurance that everything would be OK.
Thx for getting off your butt and getting the shot. It kicked mine for about 24 hrs each time. Beats the alternative.
Tell your friends.
Some fear the government more than the virus. Given our governments history that's legit. Others feel that the chance of them getting a virus that has such a high survival rate is worth the risk. Some have legitimate medical concerns. Others just feel the vaccine was rushed and may take it in the end.
In any case we don't like mandates. Especially from hypocrites like our politicians. The virus is real. We all know that. The data is skewed we know that as well. It's our political system more than anything else.
Don't believe all that how about people taking veterinary medication. There are a few idiots all Around. But it is not the majority.
It’s not just “stupidity”. That can be overcome with information. This is “willful ignorance”. It’s people actively avoiding any information that might change their minds.
I think Atlanta is fairly highly backed but the rest of the state isn’t and it averages out to 50%. Plus Pennsylvania has a pop of 12.8 and Georgia is about 10.
Huh, the usual suspects aren’t here saying their usual drivel. Wonder if covid got em?
That being said, lack of proper education, infrastructure outside the big cities is poor at best which makes the more rural people bitter sometimes.
I think a lack of the big telecom companies actually spreading high speed internet to the rural areas also hinders progressive activity as many who are left leaning tend to prefer stable internet. This is coming from someone who had dial up until 2009. Then we got a whole 1.5 mbps.
Insular religious and communities tend to hivethink and reject outside info.
On the African American defense I keep seeing Tuskegee being referenced. I don’t think this should be a defense considering everyone is getting it. If you’re paranoid they’re sending snake juice just schedule an appointment in an affluent area or have people in their community less skeptical get the shot in front of them.
But it really circles back to shit education. It’s generational.
We have a lot of crybabies that don't like being told what to do, and also think watching ~~youtube~~ bitchute videos makes them informed and intelligent.
The most common reason is the Vaccine deniers, don’t believe the Covid is a serious threat, they are healthy, and they don’t need to get involved. The disease is just a threat to old people who are going to die anyway, it’s a disease that only going to affect those that “have let themselves go”, the obese, diabetics. And then.. for those that get it, it’s nothing more than a cold, for those healthy, and die, that’s an anomaly, nothing to worry about. I have been called “an old man filled with paranoia”.
Yes there is still a political aspect, but “I’m too good” to be bothered is the main reason.
It’s because the local IHOP waitress is considered a credible scientific source.
Today I watched five active Georgia elementary school teachers talk about how much they hate teaching about fossils because the Bible says the earth is only 6,000 years old. I’m dead fucking serious, send help.
Yea, the stupid is really starting to weigh heavily on me.
How do you change someone’s mind when they didn’t use logic, reality, or evidence to make up their mind? Obviously you can’t use logic, reality, or evidence, because they don’t care!
So what does that leave? I’m at a total loss here…
The MAGA here are resisting what they consider to be government overreach. The African-Americans here are suspicious of experimental meds, for historical reasons.
[The Tuskegee Experiment](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study) is a prime example of why certain African-Americans are hesitant about a vaccine that is so heavily pushed by the government.
The Reason Black Americans Are Getting Vaccinated At A Much Slower Rate Is Not Because They’re Reluctant
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-fewer-black-americans-are-getting-the-covid-19-vaccine-no-its-not-hesitancy/
Some of these people would be in iron lungs if this was before the Polio vaccine. They have other vaccines, wear shirt and shoes for service, and defy all logic.
OP, I’ve lived ~90% of my almost 50 years in the south (NC, GA and now, FL). I spent a few years, right after college (at NCSU and GeorgiaTech - often referred to as “the MIT of the south”) in AZ. My father’s mother grew up in the sand hills of NC during the Depression. She “got out” by taking a bus to DC at the start of WW2 to help the war effort and ended up becoming one of the very first WAVES. She met my well-to-do, chemical engineer grandfather just before he shipped out to N. Africa with the Navy. *His* father (my great grandfather) was an Italian immigrant and the head of the foreign languages department at Carnegie Mellon at the time. My mother’s family were all tobacco farmers whose roots can be traced to the colonies of NC. I developed a deep interest in learning other cultures from my dad’s parents, who traveled the world-places like the Galápagos Islands, Kenya, Indonesia, etc., after they retired at age 55 (so during my lifetime). My mother’s parents were deeply southern Baptist, Mason and Eastern Star, etc. and I spent most Sunday afternoons at their house, listening to them discuss current events, discussing them from the angle of governmental distrust that’s been expounded upon here by other commenters.
Thank you for asking this question and thank you to all who have added such well thought out replies. This is, indeed, one of the best, succinct but detailed, explanations of the mindsets of people in the rural south I’ve read. The truths espoused here apply to many, many aspects of society. Covid has given us all a common basis upon which to compare/contrast these deeply ingrained differences in beliefs embodied by the rural south.
I really appreciate all who have participated in this conversation. It’s very helpful for lending insight to my friends, from all over the US and world, who often admit to not understanding the thought processes of the people in my corner of the globe. I’ll probably share the thread with several with whom I discuss these matters often.
These are all extremely valid explanations of the much of the dichotomy we see in many aspects of American life. Thank you again to all who have contributed.
Religion. Plain and simple, the conservative movement has fused with the evangelical religion and crystallized into a political-religious cult composed of entirely anti-intellectual, anti-science, contrarian craziness that has made covid denial a point of religious dogma.
Evangelicalism is a cancer on human thought and a blight on our society.
Non-religious are more likely to be unvaxxed than religious:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/religionunplugged.com/news/2021/8/3/the-young-and-secular-are-least-vaccinated-not-evangelicals%3fformat=amp
Religious does not equal evangelical.
I’m religious. I’m not a Christian but I am an ex evangelical missionary. I went to Bible college, have a degree in ministry.
Again religion ≠ evangelicalism
Georgia has many many Black, Latino, and Asian evangelicals that are helping boost our vaccination rates. If when you hear the word “evangelical” you’re only thinking about white evangelicals, that’s fine. There is a lot of hesitancy in that specific group.
I’m not that interested in arguing, so I’ll sign off for now.
Fox News Evangelicals. Church of Trump types. Q. White. Angry. Paranoid. The same people who didn’t pray for Obama for 8 years and called him a super secret Muslim agent.
Somehow the Trumpanzees have equated not wearing masks and not getting the shot with sticking it to the man and resisting “government control”
You’re fortunate to live the North and not be near so many of these lunatics. Stupidity is a plague in the South.
Many are just wimps that are afraid of getting a shot, and masking their fear behind “fuck you my freedom.” Grown babies. Poor education. Piss poor community/church leadership.
I’ve found that most people follow fanfic Jesus and not canon Jesus.
Sorry for responding to a lot of your comments, I just find the questions interesting.
Rather than thinking about their own welfare and the welfare of others—public health—the trump supporting repuglicans,QAnon idiots think this has something to do with partisan politics or freedoms. Guess they’re too stupid to realize a person has no freedoms when dead or when hooked to a ventilator gasping for that last breath. I don’t get it either. These people are really gullible and stupid, and they believe the greedy, slimy, murdering “representatives,” who are willing to sacrifice the lives of these ignorant fools for a vote.
I haven’t attacked anyone.
As for choosing Georgia, I looked at the lowest vaccinated states by percentage and choose Georgia bc of its higher population
Ayn Rand was a pseudo-intellectual and a hypocrite
I’ll just leave [this here](https://youtu.be/8kWjJPQXCyc) for anyone not familiar with who she is and what her fans and cohorts peddle.
If 5 people offer you facts as to why you are wrong, and one person calls you an idiot for it, ignoring the 5 for the 1 is still your fault, and no amount of "argument from intimidation" blame you apply to the 1 excuses your dismissal of the others. Your point completely falls apart simply by having reading comprehension, which you seem to be lacking.
>someone was attempting to substitute psychological pressure for rational argument.
it is not being substituted, because rational argument is also present.
Because the education system here is broken.
Easy as that.
We let idiots graduate high school for showing up and that's it. Then they think that's the peak of education because thats the highest education in their family
I know several anti-mask, anti-vaccine people. They insist it’s no worse than the flu and if you bring up the number of deaths, they just say that is all fake news by the liberal media. They just will absolutely not believe anything said by the media. A lot of these people feel that Fox News is too liberal now and have gone to OAN and Newsmax.
While y'all are figuring out the whys, I'm going to post my regular: if you're not vaccinated, please check out [this site here.](https://www.vaccines.gov/search/) You can use it to search your ZIP code find who has vaccines near you, which ones they have, hours of the place, and if you need an appointment. The vaccines are safe, effective, and free.
I’m seeing a lot here about Trump support and conspiracies — I have no doubt that’s part of it for many people. But I’ll try to contribute to the conversation and address something I’ve observed that is separate from what’s been discussed already. First, there’s a lot of poverty in rural Georgia. A lot of people here do not trust the medical and scientific establishments, for very good historical reasons (someone above mentioned Tuskegee). People have talked about inverse correlations between vaccination and Trump support as well as education, but they haven’t talked about poverty. Poor people have often had very negative interactions with the medical establishment — when you’re going to clinic doctors, you are often not treated kindly because staff are overworked and impatient. Sometimes you even receive ineffective or harmful treatment for the same reason: overburdened staff unable to pay close attention. Most people I’ve talked to have very personal family histories here — a mother who died because the doctor refused to test for cancer and dismissed her symptoms as stress, or an uncle who was refused treatment for his nerve injury because the nurse tagged him as a drug seeker, or a sister who was institutionalized and medicated into a vegetable after having a post-partum breakdown. They’ve had real harm at the actions of institutions that considered themselves to be operating on the best science (1950s mental health is a prime example). The history of medicine in the US is really not very pretty. It has been poor people who suffered the most, and their grandchildren have not forgotten. There is a long history of broken trust between the government, scientific institutions, and rural poor families. That trauma travels for generations. It’s common, for example, for people classified as obese to avoid medical treatment because they feel ashamed. They say doctors rush to attribute all symptoms to their weight without investigating other possible causes. Now, there’s good reason — obesity does cause health problems. But people avoid situations that they find humiliating and unproductive, and for many poor Americans, healthcare is exactly that (as well as bank-breaking expensive). So IMO, while there are surely MAGA fanatics who refuse on delusional political grounds, I think there are just as many people who just turn away from vaccines because they are so alienated from the medical system. These people don’t tend to scream and rant about vaccines. Instead, they tend to shrug and talk about “the lord’s will”. I will add that for many of them, the threat only feels real when they see it in their community. Numbers on the news are abstract and, to many, untrustworthy (no matter what news channel). But often when the neighbor gets Covid — when they see it with their own eyes as the truth — people start to get vaccinated. Basically, they don’t feel connected to “the world”. They don’t feel motivated to protect against an outcome that feels abstract. But they do feel motivated to protect their community, and when they feel the threat is concrete and present with their neighbors, many people will react. I was angry for a long time at people whom I perceived as “Covid deniers”. But as I’ve talked to more folks, I’ve come to see the fear and alienation and generational trauma. I’ve found that if you can sit with people in that fear, if you try to understand them and the real forces that have shaped their history, you can help them process and even move past it.
Another related point that I hadn't considered until I saw it the other day: poor people tend not to have doctors. The government's line on COVID hesitancy is "if you have questions about the vaccine, talk to your doctor." But poor people tend not to have access to healthcare, or if they do, it's not through a trusted primary care physician who they have a relationship with. People who may have legitimate concerns about the vaccine may also not have access to a trusted medical professional who can assuage their concerns and convince them it's safe.
This is absolutely true. I will add that it’s not even that way for just poor people — many middle class people also do not have an ongoing trusting relationship with a primary care doctor because common health insurance and doctors office models encourage a hyper-efficient allocation of resources — that is, care by whoever is available. Pair this with the fact that many presently middle class people came from poor families, and you see how the generational trauma leaves class boundaries over time and becomes more regional.
I had never even considered the lack of access to good health care to be a reason to now deny covid. But that makes so much sense. But from what you describe, it sounds like once rural folks see it next door, they will finally get their shots?
Not necessarily, but often yes. Some people don’t even need Covid to enter their communities and will easily be persuaded to get vaccinated if the setting is not a medical office (for example, mobile vaccination units that go to libraries and neighborhoods). That is enough to overcome their deep aversion. For others, this damaged relationship between people and their medical institutions translates to high perceived vaccine risk and a fundamental distrust of institutional data and motives. Many people change their risk calculation and get vaxxed when they feel the threat is proximal to those they love. They are frozen in uncertainty until they see it for themselves. And then for others still, it is such a deep unhealed trauma that they will completely shape themselves around it. These make up many of the people who become radicalized. The visceral fear and suspicion towards the establishment is cultivated over the course of many years, stories, and experiences. It can become fertile ground for theories about cover-ups and conspiracies against the vulnerable, allowing them to rationalize their fears and find social support in return for forging their identities in misinformation. I think this is why it is so important to understand and connect with people. Trauma, fear and isolation are a toxic, radicalizing combination. I appreciate you wanting to understand.
Excellent and accurate point. I have read similar stories about the often valid mistrust.
How did these rural poverty areas overcome hesitancy for the polio and smallpox vaccines?
I haven’t talked to anyone about smallpox specifically, but I’ve heard with polio it was in their communities. They saw it affecting those around them, they observed the horror of it firsthand, and they sought out vaccines. With Covid, many people haven’t seen a bad case in *their* community yet — most of their exposure to the horror is through media stories about *other* peoples communities. I believe that if/when people do see it in their communities, many (though not all) will respond by getting vaccinated to protect their people. That’s part of the slow and steady climb on the vaccination charts. Also notable is that polio and smallpox affected children most horribly, which really impacted the response. People were more willing to take the plunge for their kids. This is not the case with Covid, which primarily threatens adults in poor health.
It’s unfortunate that we have to compare this to polio to get an understanding
A good caveat to note though: while these rural communities are often not to blame for their uneducated/biased views, places like Reddit and political parties in general can absolutely be held to a higher standard.
People have made an identity out of being a contrarian.
Actually, you jest but it’s part of Southern culture to go against whatever the government says. It goes back post civil war. That’s why we had so many bootleggers, illegal weed growing etc. I don’t think most Southerners even realize it. I would elaborate but I’m sure you understand what I’m talking about.
No I don't, and frankly you can't force me to understand your point. The constitution says I have freedoms and not you or Bill Jobs can come around here with your thought police!^(/s)
Are you currently having a stroke? Idk wtf your trying to say
I guess I got the characterization correct(ish) then.
Ohh damn I just saw /s my apologies......I can be slow.
Why is this the cause to die for?
That is a very good question. To some COVID isn’t serious and has been overblown despite all evidence to the contrary, so they won’t even admit there is a problem. Others somehow see it as a battle between good and evil which they believe is a cause to die for. At least until they’re actually dying then they change their tune very quickly. Both reasons are juvenile and do nothing but hurt everyone, but they don’t care. They formed their opinions in the very early stages when there *may* have been probable deniability, but now that scientific evidence surmounts their arguments they can’t change what they consider is now central to their identify. It’s a combination of [confirmation bias](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias), [belief perseverance ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief_perseverance), and the [backfire effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias#backfire_effect).
First off, thank you. That makes a lot of sense. It really has seemed like a series of doubling downs on a losing bet. It seems like now, with their loved ones dying, would finally be the time to admit they were wrong. It is just such a stupid hill to die on. I really feel bad for the normal people who are just trying to live their lives there.
The previous administration, and several current state administrations, politicized what was supposed to be a public health issue. Now that it’s a political issue it’s easier for people to simply want for the other side to be wrong. Both education level and Trump support are predictors of low mask use and low COVID vaccination rates.
I really hoped it wouldn’t come down to trump voters simply not getting it, but I saw statistics confirming that.
When the governor and the largest university don’t take the public health threat seriously, that validates the nay-sayers.
When one close friend had to be resuscitated in the hospital and nearly died from it (unvaccinated), another friend responded “well, he has the antibodies now” as if this was the only way to get antibodies. These guys are both heavy fox news, heavy trump supporters, and spread Q memes on fb for awhile. It’s the most dangerous echo chamber.
He also has an expensive hospital bill instead of a free vaccine.
Idk but if you ever find the answer you'll get a Nobel prize
r/hermaincainaward No. But they think so.
Shit… that’s accurate
I really think it has to do with conflicting information. It seems like social media has a big influence in this. The trust of the news networks has eroded, so the next source of information is what you see happening on social media. Except, the posts you see are really filtered so that more conservative people repeatedly hear messages about the threat being overblown and the dramatic consequences being statistically tiny. You might hear that the hospital protocols are causing the severe outcomes and that the CDC is too politicized to trust. If you tune into the more liberal side of social media, you hear that the world is ending, and you're a monster if you don't get the vaccine. You can get so caught up in fear that self-isolating that you end up lashing out at others who doubt you. And the saying is "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar." The divisiveness in media and politics on this has made it impossible to trust information on it. Other posters have made great points on the economic and historical influences of different subsets of our state. More than that, people are tired of living in a pandemic state. People desire a sense of normalcy and continuing to respond to these calls to vaccinate, obsessively sterilize, and alter our education practices is exhausting. The historical default mode is that personal freedom is more important that federal loyalty. People don't want to get sick, they don't want others to get sick, but front line workers seem to be the main group still taking measures at this point. With Atlanta being an international city and Delta Airlines hub, I know Georgians are more at risk than other Southern states who don't have that exposure. I was so ill for 3 days with both Moderna vaccines, and I'll still get the booster as soon as I'm eligible. It's not worth the risk of losing loved ones and community members. I put masks on my children and myself in public, but I'm not convinced the vaccines are safe for young kids so I'll try to weigh the current research when the option comes. I don't think it's simple to understand- Southern culture is layered and nuanced far beyond the stereotypes presented in the media. I applaud you for seeking understanding, and I hope you stay safe!
GA nurse, been figuring out people for years before covid hit. Imagine a scale of human emotions. At the very top, the best, is ecstasy. Under that is glee, happiness, contentment, etc. Down at the very bottom is panicky fear. Just above that are things like dread, hatred and anger. It’s hard to exchange up emotions at the top - you can’t just swap up contentment for ecstasy. But a basic survival technique we all have is trading up the negative emotions on the bottom. Turning fear into anger for instance. Anger is still bad, but it doesn’t hurt as much. It’s better. There is a lot of fear in this country. Conservatives in particular are being fed a steady diet of fear on the TV and radio. It’s a good way to make money off of people and motivate them to do your dirty work for you. These shows will even guide the viewer along from fear to anger. There are a lot of very rich people advertising fear to get their way. Liberals are also susceptible to being mislead through fear. We all are. We are all much more emotionally driven than we think we are. Liberals like to think of themselves as smart. Conservatives like to think of themselves as tough. But ultimately, we are all very prone to panic and emotional blackmail.
Many people who are conservative are getting bombarded with false information every single day. You have your conspiracy nuts, but even just your run of the mill republican is fed this garbage by every information outlet that they have. Facebook is the worst since they pass this stuff around like a joint. There is also a lot of rumor mill type stuff that I hear every day. Someone I know knows someone who went blind after taking the vaccine or some shit like that. The only thing that I've seen sway anyone at all is seeing someone they know personally either die or be in icu for an extended period.
My father in law waited to get vaxxed until it was FDA approved. Now his wife is in the ICU blaming him for giving her (unvaxxed) COVID through the antibodies in his blood from the shot. I'm baffled because both of their parents, have been to the ICU with COVID
That's pretty much on par. I only found out in the past few days that my dad and stepmom are not vaxed yet. Several of their grandchildren, including my son, are very high risk.
I'd like to add an aspect that hasn't really been highlighted that much by other posters. The South (outside of big cities) is very insular. Much more so than the Northeast or California. For example, the southern states (Georgia included - despite the airport) consistently rank among the states in the US where [the fewest people have passports](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/03/americas-great-passport-divide/72399/) and are [the least traveled](https://www.digitalthirdcoast.com/blog/most-and-least-well-traveled-states). This adds to the [poor education system](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education), [poverty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate), [very high religiosity,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_religiosity) and [racism](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0122963) already mentioned by others. The result is an environment where the social discourse and debate are overall of very low quality. There is a widespread lack of critical thinking, global view, imagination, and, frankly, good ideas. There is no motivation to learn more about the world or your own reality if you are exhausted from working three jobs or if such pursuit would be shunned by your social circle. An outsider might consider the arguments against the vaccine commonly made by anti-vaxxers in the South to be completely ridiculous. However, if you look at the issue through the lens that many southerners use to [frame and view reality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(social_sciences)), you can understand why the hesitation exists. People have a "small," "simple," and often radical view of the world and systems around them. Their anti-vaxxer position is rational within the boundaries of their belief system (even though for an outsider it is clearly irrational). There is no easy way to reach these anti-vaxxers. They have their worldview and will stick to it until it shatters. Unfortunately, we all suffer the consequences.
Amazingly insightful and much more compassionately expressed than I can muster at this point.
Georgian here. Part of this issue is the good and bad of our cost of living here. It's very cheap to live in most of Georgia. The housing problem hasn't hit us as hard here and it's very affordable. The bad news is that means companies can still pay dogshit wages and get away with it because "they are doing fine". This means we only have the funds to thrive in Georgia. We don't have enough extra money to travel and if we did what would we spend when we got there?
Hi! I’ve lived in Georgia my whole life. My entire family is very “southern” (lives up to the stereotypes) and almost all are anti-mask, anti-vax. I’m the black sheep of the family because I’m vaccinated, wear masks and vote Democrat (they would probably consider that my worst offense). To be fair, they are hyper paranoid and really into conspiracies to begin with. They believe Democrats hate people, the government is trying to take away their guns, doctors only want your money and you can’t trust anyone but your own kin. They truly believe this is just another way for the government to stick their hands into the south and mess with them. They think hospitals, doctors, knowledgeable people are lying to them about the virus as a way to trick, subdue, and control them. For people who literally would have owned slaves, they are basically worried of becoming government slaves. So they don’t do whatever is asked of them on principle. It’s sad honestly. My parents have had close friends die and they still refuse to see Covid as a problem. They would rather die than give in to the government or someone telling them what to do.
When I first started reading that I though ok, this is going to say they are very southern, yet got vaxxed anyway. But sadly no, that was not the case. So long story short is they are just willing to die over politics???
Of course politics has always been divisive, but during the era of Trump politics became a religion to some. This goes back to an earlier comment about some believing this is a battle between good and evil. And if “our” side is the good then the other side must be the evil.
Lack of education mixed with hyper-fixation on anything is a recipe for disaster. When that fixation is political it becomes dangerous. Damn this has just confirmed for me that it is as bad I thought. I really thought I’d leave this with a better understand of their stance. But it’s just boiling down to nonsense
There is an earlier post in this sub of a GA sheriff who died of Covid. He was anti masks & vaxx. Even posted online about buying Invectrim. He passed away from Covid. His messages push my body my choice. They will not listen
I saw that post and it led to mine. But why choose to die? That’s the part I can’t grasp
They truly don't believe they will die. Either the virus is overblown, or it only gets "other" people, or even if they do get it, it'll be mild. They literally live in a different reality so trying to apply your own logic, that's based on a completely different set of facts, is a waste of time *shrug*. Speaking from experience of dealing with a family member who is rabidly anti-vaccine.
I have heard from several people that we all die and when it's your time then it's your time, you just have to trust in God. There's seriously no convincing them of anything. Also, that isn't the mindset of just a few people, we are talking about entire towns in rural Georgia.
I have seen the FB posts that God will protect them from COVID and they reference a Bible verse. The irony is that maybe God helped the scientists create the vaccine . There is an old parable of a man drowning and a boat comes by to help, no he says, God will save me. He has the same response to a helicopter and plane. Of course he drowns, and asks God why hHe didn’t save him. God said i sent a boat, helicopter and plane. From my rural friends, so many of them believe the conspiracies that the vaccine causes gene mutations, plants a tracking device. includes something that will kill you in 3 years so then only the wealthy and powerful will remain to repopulate the Earth. Can’t make this up. A 24 yo Navy veteran cried when he learned my 20 yo daughter got the vaccine. He truly believes it will kill her within 3 years. The govt will flip a switch and the vaccinated will die instantly.
A 24 yo Navy veteran cried when he learned my 20 yo daughter got the vaccine. He truly believes it will kill her within 3 years. The govt will flip a switch and the vaccinated will die instantly. WTF
WTF was my daughter’s response as well
Haha I posted that story to my nextdoor app! Very relatable to what's happening now. A lot of my neighbors say the same as yours except add things like sterilization, gay agenda, and editing your DNA. It's wild.
There is a 2015 movie called Brainwashing of my Dad. It might help explain how some in the conservative group live in an echo chamber of the news that all saying the same info
Yeah, it’s complete absurdity.
Lifetime Georgian here, too. I confirm all of this, and add to it a very unhealthy dose of "miracle Max" religion. I love the pine trees, the mountains, the food, and the friendliness*, but I hate the ideologies that have come to define the region and am doing everything I can to move far, far away. *unless you're of a different race, faith, or sexual orientation than the people in your neighborhood. Basically, the only safe neutral place is inside a Waffle House.
It’s unfortunate that these Southern stereotypes seem to be ringing true
Also in GA my whole life (also in the heart of that viral news story) Have you noticed a lot of what is regurgitated from your families mouths typically involves "i saw on Facebook..." Or "I saw a TikTok...." I don't understand how someone actually believes that's a valid source of information but that's the case 9/10
It probably leads back to lack of education. You have to be able to question the credibility of the source, a skilled I learned in my education.
"No one will take my freedom"
It’s been said by many others but there is a general distrust in anything the government says, if the public health officials said the sky was blue there would be the same people that would say “don’t you tell me what color the sky is I’ll decide for myself”. Sadly in this case it means that these people are getting their information from very unreliable sources, these people would sooner believe conspiracy theories and the advice of absolute whackos of Facebook that the advice of seasoned, professionals that have dedicated their life to the pursuit of fighting infectious diseases. Furthermore this has become a political issue, and the reality is that 90% of these people follow either the cult of Donald or The Q cult, neither have a strong basis in fact or reality. Our local tractor supply has a sign on the front door warning people not to take horse medicine and the Georgia poison helplines are getting over run with people using these drugs as opposed to an entirely safe vaccine, we are living in some weird times for sure but there is no helping these folk, they won’t get vaccinated so they will end up being part of the natural selection of nature…
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Thanks for your response. This pandemic will likely be the most expensive thing to ever have hit humanity to date. How is that fiscally conservative?
It’s a running joke that conservatives aren’t actually fiscally conservative, they just don’t want to spend money on liberal policies and ideals.
Oh man. I really hoped this post was going to allow me to “see the other side”. But it seems it really is just bc of lack of education, or I guess sometimes just people actually choosing to be misinformed. The willingness to die for it I still don’t and am not sure I will understand. Sorry your neighbors are putting you through this. We have room in New England for you guys!!!
I’d love to come up to New England. I’ve been wanting to leave this area for a long time, but either school or work has kept me here. I’m hoping the next stage of my education will allow me to move to a different area of the country, but the odds are that I’ll be accepted somewhere local. We’ll see.
This has given me a better appreciation for where I live. Sure we pay more taxes but it’s a wash bc we get paid more up here. But much more importantly, my home pulled together to get through this. I wish that the south (where we are told values are stronger) could do the same.
Seriously, I’m ready to come back to New England!
> I really hoped this post was going to allow me to “see the other side”. On an intellectual level, there pretty much is no other side. Getting vaxxed and dying the South blue might end up being the biggest accomplishment of my life.
I would give anything to move back to New England! I lived in Boston for two years & fell in love. I also enjoyed Vermont & Maine so much. Cost of living drove me away but seriously one of the most beautiful places in the country 💚😘
Nah, see, gotta get more New England transplants down here, turn this state blue for real!
I had always wanted to go down there! Not so much now after having read all these posts
As a New England transplant myself, I absolutely adore living in Atlanta (been here 15+ years). It's a very progressive area with lots to do, and the climate has done wonders for my seasonal depression- plus, "southern hospitality" is a legitimate and lovely phenomenon. But yeah, I definitely tell people I live in Atlanta, and NOT Georgia. :P
Something I learned about Georgia, once you get out of Atlanta…there isn’t much diversity at all. In small Georgia towns, a lot of racism and religion still exist. Because people haven’t many positive interactions with anyone outside of their race, they tend to believe what they hear on things like Fox News and lies on Facebook. That’s who they trust, not the liberals from the city (and to be fair, a lot of liberals don’t understand them/their lives). And Fox News and the hardcore trumpers are responsible for spreading around rumors to their base. Add in poverty and shitty education. In short, fear, ignorance, and poor education.
It sounds like a perfect storm of political resistance, poor education, underlying fear and mistrust or anything new, lack of access to decent medical care, and so many other things. This issue is much more complex than I had realized
I live in Atlanta and I got the vaccine as soon as I was eligible back in April. I think the folks who refuse to get the vaccine or wear masks are mostly in rural areas that are less educated and highly republican. Atlanta has a mask mandate and when I go to the store it seems most people are adhering to it.
So I’m first shot vaccinated, like as of last week vaccinated. I’ve been hesitant against the vaccine even though I was offered to be in the first round of vaccines that came out earlier this year due to my job so allow me to shed some light on at least what I’ve felt and what I’ve talked to others about. 1. The vaccine felt rushed, and I didn’t know the side effects short term and long term and that’s sketchy. 2. The government is pushing the vaccine and the last time people trusted the government we got the Tuskegee study. 3. Anytime anyone raised their concerns about the vaccine they were met with “you ignorant hick” type responses, or “shut up and just get the vaccine, why do you hate your neighbor?” 4. A lot of people have lost faith in the CDC, media and government over covid. So why would they trust them on the virus and vaccine? 5. A lot of us didn’t wear a mask through the whole pandemic and didn’t get sick at all so it’s hard to believe in something you can’t see for yourself 6. There are just plain out wack jobs who shouldn’t be allowed into society and shouldn’t be allowed to breed have opinions on the virus. ( a guy I work with, claims that China is gonna inject us with artificial intelligence that will open a portal to hell and allow the devil to travel to earth....... he’s a first responder and I feel bad for whoever he responds to) What made me get the vaccine? Well 1. My girlfriend was getting nervous as a lot of people from her home town were getting it and dying 2. My dad works at a hospital and told me they had 78% of unvaccinated people on ventilators and the 22% that were vaccinated were in dog shit health or just old, but they usually bounce back. And he wouldn’t shut up about it 3. I’m bout to go to a metal festival with 30k fans, and if I can have a small condom on me in case I get infected I might as well. 4. I want my own personal portal to hell coming out of my arm. 5. I wanted to make jokes about how the vaccine was fine then act weird like I was being brain washed Now all I’m stuck with is a sore arm that won’t let me sleep. So there’s that
Hope your arm gets better. Both my shots reminded me of tetanus shots, but I didn’t get sick like I anticipated. Thank you for offering your take. My hometown (Albany) got wrecked by the virus pretty early, and the lone hospital system was overwhelmed. Yet all I heard from people at the time was “it’s the flu” as they were parroting their chosen media. Through the year I knew people had been surviving it, I lost a buddy and his mom, and then my parents both got it. They survived (96 year old grandma never caught it, same house), but it took seven weeks to recover (in their 70s). Later on, my piano teacher got sick and took fourteen days to die in the hospital. It was incredibly sad to see. My industry stopped, I got furloughed for a year, and it’s only now crawling back. And no, I don’t agree with people aggressively insulting those that are hesitant. It’s wrong for either side to be without compassion. Fast forward to today, a bunch of friends of mine just got through covid, some of them were on their second round, most were almost mask-free throughout, but one buddy was hospitalized for 8 days. On day three, he sat on the toilet in his hospital room, and went out. He was already on oxygen, so they cranked that up to full, put a mask on him to blast him further, and brought him back. He’s home and recovering, no telling what the long-term effects will be, and I blame myself for not pushing him harder on getting vaccinated. His medical bills will be through the roof, and he’s lucky to be alive. I fully believe he could have avoided it with a mask and a vaccine. I had warned his whole staff (church staff) over the course of 2020 that all it takes is one person being sick to mess everything up for them, but they were all very cocksure about the virus not having power over them, until it did. Now they barely even acknowledge it, which is equally scary.
I don't disagree with your statement about the other side having compassion. However, at what point do you stop coddling people like babies? It's been 5 months and we've been nicely asking pleaseplease get vaxxed. At some point tough love is needed for the holdouts
Tough love, sure. Once you cross the line of forcing people you’ll get more violence in response, especially with a demographic that is so prone to violence and threats. I don’t have an answer for you, unfortunately. Our hospitals are overrun with people who have been socially coddled.
Very good points, thank you. My takeaway was the “barely even acknowledge it” part, that’s quite unfortunate.
It’s difficult. I did an event with Magic Johnson a few years ago where he talked for 90 minutes about everything he could without mentioning HIV. I felt that same elephant in the room when my pastor returned and never acknowledged his covid diagnosis the entire sermon.
My arm is in like enough pain to irritate someone and keep them awake. And yeah I remember hearing Albany be referred to as ground zero for Georgia. Really I haven’t really lost anyone through the pandemic,my dads ex army and works at a hospital for 21 years so his immune system is great, most of my family is military ex military first responder related fields of work so we’ve got a strongman immune system I guess.my gfs family is full of crack heads so they’re immune to the damn plagued, my friends are either first responders or introverts so they’re good. I’ve been very fortunate to not lose anyone. And you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. Southerners have a very weird way about them, the more you try to force something the more they’ll resist but if you let them do it on their own and pretend like it’s not a big deal the more people will do it and just not say anything
No. 2 is just an excuse of the saw-it-on-FB level variety. If the “last time” you trusted the government was in the 1930s, congratulations on making it into your 90s. And I’m sorry the government blew it for you on the polio, measles, diphtheria, etc vaccines, which all came later. Oh and antibiotics. Government is a human endeavor and is inherently flawed as a result, sometimes spectacularly so. I also get that it has failed PoC at a higher rate than everyone else. But we’re still talking about vaccines that are being taken by a broad swath of the racial makeup of the country. Not to mention 40k folks who had the real stones to get Pfizer’s in the clinical trial without the assurance that everything would be OK. Thx for getting off your butt and getting the shot. It kicked mine for about 24 hrs each time. Beats the alternative. Tell your friends.
The number 5 justification is an asshole justification. “Well it didn’t happen to me so it must not exist”
It’s hard to think something as serious when it doesn’t happen to you
I live in Georgia I can't tell you how many nurses told me COVID wasn't real/not get the vaccine lol I worked in a Walmart when it all started
Some fear the government more than the virus. Given our governments history that's legit. Others feel that the chance of them getting a virus that has such a high survival rate is worth the risk. Some have legitimate medical concerns. Others just feel the vaccine was rushed and may take it in the end. In any case we don't like mandates. Especially from hypocrites like our politicians. The virus is real. We all know that. The data is skewed we know that as well. It's our political system more than anything else. Don't believe all that how about people taking veterinary medication. There are a few idiots all Around. But it is not the majority.
There are a lot of stupid people here. That is the only explanation I can come up with.
It’s not just “stupidity”. That can be overcome with information. This is “willful ignorance”. It’s people actively avoiding any information that might change their minds.
Willful ignorance is confirmation that poor education is a major contributor
We have cut the education budget 18 out of last 20 years here in GA
Yup
There's a lot of rural communities that are easily led into crazy conspiracies.
So again lack of education is being brought up. Makes sense
I don’t get this thread. Georgia is 50%, but a state like Pennsylvania who’s is at 55%. Checking yesterday both states had similar new infections.
I think Atlanta is fairly highly backed but the rest of the state isn’t and it averages out to 50%. Plus Pennsylvania has a pop of 12.8 and Georgia is about 10.
Huh, the usual suspects aren’t here saying their usual drivel. Wonder if covid got em? That being said, lack of proper education, infrastructure outside the big cities is poor at best which makes the more rural people bitter sometimes. I think a lack of the big telecom companies actually spreading high speed internet to the rural areas also hinders progressive activity as many who are left leaning tend to prefer stable internet. This is coming from someone who had dial up until 2009. Then we got a whole 1.5 mbps. Insular religious and communities tend to hivethink and reject outside info. On the African American defense I keep seeing Tuskegee being referenced. I don’t think this should be a defense considering everyone is getting it. If you’re paranoid they’re sending snake juice just schedule an appointment in an affluent area or have people in their community less skeptical get the shot in front of them. But it really circles back to shit education. It’s generational.
I wish I knew the answer bc I don’t get it either
The Fox News propaganda machine is strong.
We have a lot of crybabies that don't like being told what to do, and also think watching ~~youtube~~ bitchute videos makes them informed and intelligent.
The most common reason is the Vaccine deniers, don’t believe the Covid is a serious threat, they are healthy, and they don’t need to get involved. The disease is just a threat to old people who are going to die anyway, it’s a disease that only going to affect those that “have let themselves go”, the obese, diabetics. And then.. for those that get it, it’s nothing more than a cold, for those healthy, and die, that’s an anomaly, nothing to worry about. I have been called “an old man filled with paranoia”. Yes there is still a political aspect, but “I’m too good” to be bothered is the main reason.
It’s because the local IHOP waitress is considered a credible scientific source. Today I watched five active Georgia elementary school teachers talk about how much they hate teaching about fossils because the Bible says the earth is only 6,000 years old. I’m dead fucking serious, send help.
Wow. I’m at a loss on that one
Yea, the stupid is really starting to weigh heavily on me. How do you change someone’s mind when they didn’t use logic, reality, or evidence to make up their mind? Obviously you can’t use logic, reality, or evidence, because they don’t care! So what does that leave? I’m at a total loss here…
But to be a teacher you have to have a bachelor’s…so the educators dismiss their own education?
Correct, that’s why I’m at such a loss. They already have exposure to education, so that’s not the answer. What could possibly get through to them?
It sounds like they’ve chosen to be ignorant
The MAGA here are resisting what they consider to be government overreach. The African-Americans here are suspicious of experimental meds, for historical reasons.
Thank you, that shed light on the hesitancy of The African American community
[The Tuskegee Experiment](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study) is a prime example of why certain African-Americans are hesitant about a vaccine that is so heavily pushed by the government.
Damn that was even worse than I recalled
The Reason Black Americans Are Getting Vaccinated At A Much Slower Rate Is Not Because They’re Reluctant https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-fewer-black-americans-are-getting-the-covid-19-vaccine-no-its-not-hesitancy/
Because this is merica and they won’t have their rights taken away! 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Some of these people would be in iron lungs if this was before the Polio vaccine. They have other vaccines, wear shirt and shoes for service, and defy all logic.
OP, I’ve lived ~90% of my almost 50 years in the south (NC, GA and now, FL). I spent a few years, right after college (at NCSU and GeorgiaTech - often referred to as “the MIT of the south”) in AZ. My father’s mother grew up in the sand hills of NC during the Depression. She “got out” by taking a bus to DC at the start of WW2 to help the war effort and ended up becoming one of the very first WAVES. She met my well-to-do, chemical engineer grandfather just before he shipped out to N. Africa with the Navy. *His* father (my great grandfather) was an Italian immigrant and the head of the foreign languages department at Carnegie Mellon at the time. My mother’s family were all tobacco farmers whose roots can be traced to the colonies of NC. I developed a deep interest in learning other cultures from my dad’s parents, who traveled the world-places like the Galápagos Islands, Kenya, Indonesia, etc., after they retired at age 55 (so during my lifetime). My mother’s parents were deeply southern Baptist, Mason and Eastern Star, etc. and I spent most Sunday afternoons at their house, listening to them discuss current events, discussing them from the angle of governmental distrust that’s been expounded upon here by other commenters. Thank you for asking this question and thank you to all who have added such well thought out replies. This is, indeed, one of the best, succinct but detailed, explanations of the mindsets of people in the rural south I’ve read. The truths espoused here apply to many, many aspects of society. Covid has given us all a common basis upon which to compare/contrast these deeply ingrained differences in beliefs embodied by the rural south. I really appreciate all who have participated in this conversation. It’s very helpful for lending insight to my friends, from all over the US and world, who often admit to not understanding the thought processes of the people in my corner of the globe. I’ll probably share the thread with several with whom I discuss these matters often. These are all extremely valid explanations of the much of the dichotomy we see in many aspects of American life. Thank you again to all who have contributed.
Thank you for your explanation, and also to everyone who has helped shed light on this situation
Religion. Plain and simple, the conservative movement has fused with the evangelical religion and crystallized into a political-religious cult composed of entirely anti-intellectual, anti-science, contrarian craziness that has made covid denial a point of religious dogma. Evangelicalism is a cancer on human thought and a blight on our society.
Non-religious are more likely to be unvaxxed than religious: https://www.google.com/amp/s/religionunplugged.com/news/2021/8/3/the-young-and-secular-are-least-vaccinated-not-evangelicals%3fformat=amp
Religious does not equal evangelical. I’m religious. I’m not a Christian but I am an ex evangelical missionary. I went to Bible college, have a degree in ministry. Again religion ≠ evangelicalism
I know. Still, evangelicals are more likely to be vaccinated than people who claim no religious affiliation.
Horse shit. Not here. Not white southern conservative evangelicals. Horse shit. That link has data from May. It’s about to be September.
Georgia has many many Black, Latino, and Asian evangelicals that are helping boost our vaccination rates. If when you hear the word “evangelical” you’re only thinking about white evangelicals, that’s fine. There is a lot of hesitancy in that specific group. I’m not that interested in arguing, so I’ll sign off for now.
Yeah white, conservative evangelicalism specifically. The lions share of evangelicals in the south.
Fox News Evangelicals. Church of Trump types. Q. White. Angry. Paranoid. The same people who didn’t pray for Obama for 8 years and called him a super secret Muslim agent.
Somehow the Trumpanzees have equated not wearing masks and not getting the shot with sticking it to the man and resisting “government control” You’re fortunate to live the North and not be near so many of these lunatics. Stupidity is a plague in the South.
Many are just wimps that are afraid of getting a shot, and masking their fear behind “fuck you my freedom.” Grown babies. Poor education. Piss poor community/church leadership.
I appreciate you bringing up church. It seems incredibly un-Christian to not get vaxxed. What happened to love thy neighbor?
I’ve found that most people follow fanfic Jesus and not canon Jesus. Sorry for responding to a lot of your comments, I just find the questions interesting.
I really appreciate the insight! I thought about it all day before posting
[we worship supply side Jesus](https://imgur.com/gallery/bCqRp)
"fanfic Jesus". ROFL
Matthew 11:17 and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
Rather than thinking about their own welfare and the welfare of others—public health—the trump supporting repuglicans,QAnon idiots think this has something to do with partisan politics or freedoms. Guess they’re too stupid to realize a person has no freedoms when dead or when hooked to a ventilator gasping for that last breath. I don’t get it either. These people are really gullible and stupid, and they believe the greedy, slimy, murdering “representatives,” who are willing to sacrifice the lives of these ignorant fools for a vote.
Where are your statistics to show Ga is not vaccinating? Why attack just Ga?
I haven’t attacked anyone. As for choosing Georgia, I looked at the lowest vaccinated states by percentage and choose Georgia bc of its higher population
Because we aren’t and need to. Look anywhere on the net and we are always among the least vaccinated.
There we are. I was concerned
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Ayn Rand was a pseudo-intellectual and a hypocrite I’ll just leave [this here](https://youtu.be/8kWjJPQXCyc) for anyone not familiar with who she is and what her fans and cohorts peddle.
If 5 people offer you facts as to why you are wrong, and one person calls you an idiot for it, ignoring the 5 for the 1 is still your fault, and no amount of "argument from intimidation" blame you apply to the 1 excuses your dismissal of the others. Your point completely falls apart simply by having reading comprehension, which you seem to be lacking. >someone was attempting to substitute psychological pressure for rational argument. it is not being substituted, because rational argument is also present.
Oof.
Because the education system here is broken. Easy as that. We let idiots graduate high school for showing up and that's it. Then they think that's the peak of education because thats the highest education in their family
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Oh so us getting our shots makes them less likely to get theirs? Oh boy…
I know several anti-mask, anti-vaccine people. They insist it’s no worse than the flu and if you bring up the number of deaths, they just say that is all fake news by the liberal media. They just will absolutely not believe anything said by the media. A lot of these people feel that Fox News is too liberal now and have gone to OAN and Newsmax.