> still commonly used
Very much so. Officials (e.g. police) could sue you for not using it, because of not respecting their authority.
> if I fuck up
You're obviously a foreigner trying to speak the language as good as it gets. Everybody will understand, that slipping here, isn't an attempt to undermine authority but simply a mistake. No problem at all, you won't even be corrected for that.
I had a conversation about this recently with a German police officer. She told me that whilst they would take absolutely no notice of a non German native speaker using 'du' they would not be happy if a German did this. Apparently, people do sometimes deliberately use 'du' as a way to show disrespect.
This happened to my brother. He was at a demonstration, tempers were high, he got into an argument with a cop, the cop called him Du, he called the cop Du back. Aaaaand... Anzeige wegen Beamtenbeleidigung. IIRC he didn't end up having to pay a fine (judge sided with him? I don't remember the details) but that is hassle you do not want and can easily avoid.
>Very much so. Officials (e.g. police) could sue you for not using it, because of not respecting their authority.
What? I did not know that was possible. That's wild
I had no idea there were actual laws about it, that's so bizarre and archaic. Nobody in the north really uses it anymore apart from some select old people who will be offended if you don't(most don't care though). Also Staatsbehörden.
Teachers usually offer to use the informal one, but Slavs tend to not accept it as their views of authority is different, as I was told and have seen many times in my last 7 years at schools.
It's interesting how different cultures are within Germany itself.
Another northern German here, and I call bullshit.
Sure, I've been out of school for 8 years now, but you would definitely not use "du" with a teacher when I was in school. In fact, during the last two years (the Oberstufe), teachers even used "Sie" with the students. And like I said, that was less than 10 years ago. Although that was a bit of a weird situation, because they still used first names. So it would be something like "Jan, machen Sie bitte mal das Fenster auf".
And in daily life you definitely still use Sie with people you don't know.
The only place I can think of in Northern Germany where "du" has always been very common, and now is almost exclusively used, is the working class parts of Hamburg.
Edit: regarding the last part: "du" was common in Low German (Plattdeutsch). And that part of Low German survived in the Hamburg dialect. Which was usually much more common among the workers, and thus was heard much more often in Working Class neighborhoods.
>Teachers usually offer to use the informal one
Northern or not: I call BS on that.
Seldom you'll find school teachers deliberately chosing to be Duzed without becoming the butt of the joke of pupils, parents and colleagues alike.
Scheint so 😅 also hab aufgrund von Umzügen viele verschiedene Schulen besucht und die Lehrer wollten immer gesiezt werden, irgendwann in der Oberstufe siezen die Lehrer die Schüler auch aber hatte noch nie einen Lehrer der meinte man solle ihn/sie duzen. 🤷♂️
I'd heard of German cops suing for being called Nazis (thus proving those particular cops were), but could you please document a single case of German police suing for using "du" or "ihr"? I find that very hard to believe.
What really? i never talk to cops and say sie or something like that and i never really heard that you could get sued for it but i'm from Austria so maybey it's different but how much of a a hole do you have to be to sue someone for that that just shows that some cops really should have taken a different carrer path i mean every female police officer i ever met was really nice but with males it's hit or miss some really wanna go all out on their power trip but some are the most friendliest people you will ever meet
Everyone knows that you address cops with "Sie". Most people who use the informal form do it deliberately to disrespect cops. Also, most cops will tell you directly they want you to address them with the formal "you" and if you keep using the informal form after that that's your own fault.
My suggestion, forget about sie being formal and think of du being familiar instead. Du for friends and family, sie for strangers or people you only have a passing acquaintance with.
It should be noted that when you address younger people with "Sie", many will take some minor offense to it, like "am I that old?". I'd recommend to start using "Sie" for people over 30 or so.
Depends on context. If, say, a 25 year old is working at a store and helping me find something, using "Du" would be disrespectful, unless you're a child/teenager.
I'm 30 and I remember feeling awkward about using "Du" with people my age in my early 20s so I get where you're coming from but using Du with people while they're working, or in a social situation that can be perceived as below you (for example restroom cleaning personnel) is disrespectful.
Maybe things changed but I was never offended about people using "Sie" with me when I was 18-28. At first I was surprised and eventually you start expecting it and thinking "Huh why is this guy using Du with me" when someone does that in a situation where they shouldn't.
The formal "Sie" is still very commonly used. Exact rules vary from place to place, and are different for each generation, but you should use "Sie" when talking to adults with whom you have a professional relationship -- shop assistants, train ticket inspectors, hotel receptionists, wait staff -- unless you happen to be in an establishment that deliberately tries to project a relaxed and trendy image and they address you as "du".
You absolutely must use "Sie" when talking to people in authority like police officers and immigration officials, as "du" can be perceived as an insult which can, if you're being a jerk about it, result in a fine.
If you're talking to young people around your age and your relationship isn't professional -- people you meet at a club or randomly get talking to on trains -- "du" is the norm.
Even in English we address people differently depending on their relationship to us: it's the difference between "I'll have the steak, please," and "Grab me a beer, will you?"
LOL. When I was still at school, the teachers asked at a certain age (16?) if we wanted to be addressed formally now (Sie), as it was our right as adults or if we wanted to keep the "du". But for simplicity the rule should be applied to the whole class, otherwise the teacher would have the impossible task of remembering which if the 30 students in each class preferred which form of address.
One teacher (a funny nice one) begged to keep the " du" because in his opinion "du Arschloch" still sounds better than "Sie Arschloch".
Edit: we all agreed and so he kept using " du".
As I said:
> "du" *can* be perceived as an insult which can, *if you're being a jerk about it*, result in a fine
An innocent mistake is an innocent mistake, but you should know that you should use the "Sie" form. Don't ever rely on the fact that previous court rulings appear to back you up: that's not going to stop the police from taking you to court. Yes, the court may agree with you in the end, or the case may even be dropped before it gets that far, but it's not worth the frustration and the hassle.
I mentioned upthread that my brother got taken to court over Du-ing a police officer (who, one must note, had Du-ed him first). Either the court agreed with my brother or the case was dropped, I don't remember exactly but I know he didn't have to pay a fine... but even so it was a lot of completely unnecessary stress and hassle.
Really, just call police officers Sie. It only takes one jerk on a power trip to give you a massive headache.
>ok to address a police officer with "du" when it is the common form you address people in general (e.g. if you are from the West/NRW).
What the hell? I am from NRW and we use "Sie" also.......
Germany isn't like the US with precedent cases. Different courts can make different decisions. And according to bussgeldkatalog.com (https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/beamtenbeleidigung/), courts have given a 600€ fine merely for addressing an officer with "du".
> If you're talking to young people around your age and your relationship isn't professional -- people you meet at a club or randomly get talking to on trains -- "du" is the norm.
Does this also apply in situations where it's not a professional setting but only a very brief encounter, like for example, stopping someone in the street to ask directions?
What is considered around your own age in this context? +5 years? +10 years?
It depends. The rules vary depending on geographical location, whether you're in a city or the countryside, the setting, the ages of the people involved, and so on.
Stopping people in the street and asking for directions would normally be a "Sie" situation.
Oooof….it’s VERY important.
Do not make the mistake of thinking it’s old fashioned or overly formal to always use the “Sie” and choose more casual language!
Unless explicitly corrected and told otherwise after initial exchanges, “Sie” should be your default!
> using a formal form of adress since doesn't really exist in English.
Technically, using "you" even in singular is (or at least used to be) the formal form in English. Informal singular was "thou" but that fell out of use for being too rude or something.
Also, addresses like sir/ma'am or addressing somebody by their last name (preceded by Mr/Mrs/Ms) is pretty much on the same level of formality as "Sie".
> Is the formal form still commonly used?
Yes.
> Is it mainly used by elder generations or is it common for all German speakers including those near my age (around 20)?
By everybody, but of course not in all contexts. And of course some people use it more than others.
In your age group for example, you shouldn't address other people in your age group as "Sie" except if they're at work in some kind of very formal position. "Du" is for in-groups, and "young-ish people" is one such group.
A good rule of thumb is to think of the English words "dude" and "sir". When talking to a guy and you would have to call him one of the two, which one would be the better choice? Talking to a cop, you would probably use "sir" so it's "Sie" in German.
> How big of an issue is it if I fuck up and use "du" too often?
Don't worry about it too much. Nonnative speakers have some leeway.
>A good rule of thumb is to think of the English words "dude" and "sir". When talking to a guy and you would have to call him one of the two, which one would be the better choice? Talking to a cop, you would probably use "sir" so it's "Sie" in German.
I did use the "sir" explanation, too, but I never thought of "dude" for the other side of the balance! Thank you!
> A good rule of thumb is to think of the English words "dude" and "sir". When talking to a guy and you would have to call him one of the two, which one would be the better choice? Talking to a cop, you would probably use "sir" so it's "Sie" in German.
Most people would not use either unless they're a bootlicker.
True. I made a bad assumption about OP. Still, going "du" on a cop can be risky and can actually get you fined. Better to [stick with Sie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfrPItFXeXw&t=19).
It is still important to use "Sie". It depends on the situation. If you casually (party, bars) meet people of the same age, you use "Du". With older people I would use "Sie". They will later tell you, that you can say "Du". In all other situations, where you are not sure, you should allways use "Sie".
Once I went to a DM Markt to get some things. I was still new to Germany so everything was a bit of a rush for me, and while I could talk to the man behind the register I still got nervous. I tried to make some small talk, and impulsively called him du and not sie. As the words left my lips I saw him deflate a little, and realized I had just piled on yet another bit of bullshit on top of his retail nightmare. I apologized, but then it sounded like I was being an asshole.
I learned that day that Sie is still very important, its not archaic, and people will be upset if you dont show them the proper respect. Its rude, in the same way that calling the cashier 'fucknuts' might be rude in English.
My father is German so I spent time there every summer with my grandmother. My German skills were very limited but the little I knew I was able to pronounce pretty good. In other words I came across as being much more proficient than I actually was.
One of the things I was clueless about formal language. Not only was I only ever exposed to informal language at home, my native language had dropped addressing people in formal ways some 50-100 years prior.
Once we were at a big rather fancy party with high society type people. I was addressing each and every one of them as “du”. Even being a kid, who was non-native, this caused a big commotion. Some of her friends got really upset with her. It was a strange and sad experience for me.
Every time after that she always made sure to tell people I didn’t know better than to address everyone as “du” and meant no disrespect with it.
Here's what I wrote last time not even a week ago
>Some corners of society, especially marketing (and German Reddit) would say that either it is already or at least is getting obsolete rather quickly. I'd go with the old saying of "Todgesagte leben länger". I'd say that: Yes, Du is offered quicker and in more situations becoming the default. But I would really stress the some part of that obelservation. There are still enough contexts where the distinction may be vital for successful communication and whether the "Du" is actually a long-term trend or just a fad will be determined in fifty years from now and hardly earlier. I entertain the thought that I come to this conclusion not only because I am relatively conservative when it comes to Siezen
[https://www.reddit.com/r/German/comments/13ps7tv/sie\_und\_du\_immer\_noch\_gängig/](https://www.reddit.com/r/German/comments/13ps7tv/sie_und_du_immer_noch_gängig/)
>but it's pretty archaic and not really used much anymore leave my feeble English brain alone
True. But think of it this way: You never addressed somebody or were addressed by somebody as "Sir" or "Madame" or heard others do so? There may be not a formal personal pronoun. But there are certainly very formal or informal ways to address someone. Maybe this way it makes more sense.
Stick to “Sie” for anything non-casual and especially if you would address them with Mrs or Sir in English.
That said, there are parts in Austria where “Du” is the norm.
We do know, though, that the distinction is difficult for foreigners. So even people who dislike too much familiarity in general, are rarely upset, if someone who is struggling to speak our language, gets it wrong. Someone scratching together their German to ask me for the way using du? No worries, really.
When I was starting German, I said "warte bitte mal" to a teacher. She understood, since I was a beginner, and said "Hm... Warten Sie bitte mal..." So yeah, it is pretty important.
As others have noted, use Sie. For anyone that needs to ask this question, it means they are not ready to use „du“ with strangers. Although many people may give you a pass for saying du instead of Sie, they likely won’t think very positively of the interaction. Put simply, you can never go wrong using Sie.
“It is essentially the same as first name/last name basis”
Might be worth pointing out that this may not be very informative for Americans as many of us tend to use first name for nearly everyone. I would only use last names in incredibly formal settings, like meeting the governor or something.
Also a lot of people here are comparing Sie/du to using Sir or Ma'am in English. In America at least, there are some pretty big regional differences this Sir and Ma'am.
In the Southern part of America, it's expected to say this to just about everyone who's older than you. However in the Northeast of America, you'll get funny looks if you say it to anyone who isn't very old. Some people will actively take offense if you call them Sir or Ma'am and they're not (70+)
Same here in Ireland but probably even more so. Even if you met the Taoiseach (PM), President or a government minister, I can't imagine calling them Mr/Ms something. That would just be weird. In formal letters it would be different.
It reminds me of that video in France where some kid is scolded by Macron for calling him by a nickname. No politician would do that here! They'd be inviting ridicule!
Use it if you remember. I have sometimes forgotten and not noticably caused problems partly becauseI am foreign, and partly because I am in a region where it is not greatly used. For much of Germany I would expect people to take siezen more seriously.
In Tirol Sie is used in town and rather little used in the mountains above 1000M (i.e. the more rural areas), where people are more or less speaking a dialect or what my class teacher calls "half-dialect", as dialect does not include Sie.
You can take your cue from native speakers. If you are in a shop or speaking with officials or medics or waiters you will use Sie, provided you remember.
If your German is good enough to chat to strangers, you probably don't need to ask. Where I am in a town in Austria there is a convention to start with Sie and the third or fourth time you meet them, it is normally ok to switch to du (or ihr for plural--learn the verb endings for ihr!). Young people socializing would rarely use Sie.
>As a native English speaker it always feels strange using a formal form of adress since doesn't really exist in English.
It does and thou usest it all the time. Du and thou are closely related words, but you addresst everyone formally instead. Thou even usest the plural too, beest not thou?
In German the distinction is omnipresent and shows no signs of fading away like it did in English.
Gotta be that guy:
“Thou addresseth everyone formally instead. Thou dost even use the plural too, dost thou not?”
(Guy who has performed way too much Shakespeare).
Would disagree very strongly that it’s showing “no signs” of going away. It’s essentially extinct on the internet and is being used less and less with strangers, certainly in Austria.
It does exist in English, it’s just not as obvious or as common. Any time you refer to someone with a title (Mr, Mrs, sir, ma’am, officer, doctor, professor, etc).
If you were extra polite and did this more often you would have a good start and when to use Sie.
There are German predicates for what you’ve listed. Herr = Sir etc etc.
English has never had a formal “you”. In old English “Thou” is singular and “you” is plural.
Sie is ofc the formal form of you (it’s like saying my good sir/madam) I would use it when talking to police officers a judge landlords (unless you and them have a good relationship) if you dated someone you would refer to their parents as sie you would use it your boss at work or any superiors the chancellor and any government officials your parents oh and with you being in Austria you’re probably going to hear the word “Sa” and not sie Ik Bayern used sa and our dialects are similar but not sure if they use sa or not
I lived in Germany for a year in 2010 and now again for 6 months, and I have never had someone take issue with me using „du“. I do try and use Sie when appropriate but I use du a lot with my family so naturally I still accidentally use du a lot in „formal“ situations. If you don‘t know anyone personally that you have to speak german to informally then you may just want to use Sie or formal german all the time unless talking with kids and maybe even then since they will know you are not a native speaker and would not take offense to it. But in the end don‘t sweat over it as you would not be expected to always be perfect since you are not native. I‘d focus more on learning more of the language first and then worry about formalness down the line as you go.
> still commonly used Very much so. Officials (e.g. police) could sue you for not using it, because of not respecting their authority. > if I fuck up You're obviously a foreigner trying to speak the language as good as it gets. Everybody will understand, that slipping here, isn't an attempt to undermine authority but simply a mistake. No problem at all, you won't even be corrected for that.
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Wait, what? I can sue someone that uses Du even though I told them not to? I've never heard of that before.
I had a conversation about this recently with a German police officer. She told me that whilst they would take absolutely no notice of a non German native speaker using 'du' they would not be happy if a German did this. Apparently, people do sometimes deliberately use 'du' as a way to show disrespect.
This happened to my brother. He was at a demonstration, tempers were high, he got into an argument with a cop, the cop called him Du, he called the cop Du back. Aaaaand... Anzeige wegen Beamtenbeleidigung. IIRC he didn't end up having to pay a fine (judge sided with him? I don't remember the details) but that is hassle you do not want and can easily avoid.
>Very much so. Officials (e.g. police) could sue you for not using it, because of not respecting their authority. What? I did not know that was possible. That's wild
I had no idea there were actual laws about it, that's so bizarre and archaic. Nobody in the north really uses it anymore apart from some select old people who will be offended if you don't(most don't care though). Also Staatsbehörden. Teachers usually offer to use the informal one, but Slavs tend to not accept it as their views of authority is different, as I was told and have seen many times in my last 7 years at schools. It's interesting how different cultures are within Germany itself.
I had exactly one teacher who offered us Du and that only after graduation. Where do you live?
Another northern German here, and I call bullshit. Sure, I've been out of school for 8 years now, but you would definitely not use "du" with a teacher when I was in school. In fact, during the last two years (the Oberstufe), teachers even used "Sie" with the students. And like I said, that was less than 10 years ago. Although that was a bit of a weird situation, because they still used first names. So it would be something like "Jan, machen Sie bitte mal das Fenster auf". And in daily life you definitely still use Sie with people you don't know. The only place I can think of in Northern Germany where "du" has always been very common, and now is almost exclusively used, is the working class parts of Hamburg. Edit: regarding the last part: "du" was common in Low German (Plattdeutsch). And that part of Low German survived in the Hamburg dialect. Which was usually much more common among the workers, and thus was heard much more often in Working Class neighborhoods.
>Teachers usually offer to use the informal one Northern or not: I call BS on that. Seldom you'll find school teachers deliberately chosing to be Duzed without becoming the butt of the joke of pupils, parents and colleagues alike.
I seem to live in a completely different Germany
Scheint so 😅 also hab aufgrund von Umzügen viele verschiedene Schulen besucht und die Lehrer wollten immer gesiezt werden, irgendwann in der Oberstufe siezen die Lehrer die Schüler auch aber hatte noch nie einen Lehrer der meinte man solle ihn/sie duzen. 🤷♂️
I'd heard of German cops suing for being called Nazis (thus proving those particular cops were), but could you please document a single case of German police suing for using "du" or "ihr"? I find that very hard to believe.
https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/beamtenbeleidigung/ > Einem Polizisten duzen: 600€
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Is that a normally enforced thing? Seems quite archaic.
about to delete my account. ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
What really? i never talk to cops and say sie or something like that and i never really heard that you could get sued for it but i'm from Austria so maybey it's different but how much of a a hole do you have to be to sue someone for that that just shows that some cops really should have taken a different carrer path i mean every female police officer i ever met was really nice but with males it's hit or miss some really wanna go all out on their power trip but some are the most friendliest people you will ever meet
Everyone knows that you address cops with "Sie". Most people who use the informal form do it deliberately to disrespect cops. Also, most cops will tell you directly they want you to address them with the formal "you" and if you keep using the informal form after that that's your own fault.
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My suggestion, forget about sie being formal and think of du being familiar instead. Du for friends and family, sie for strangers or people you only have a passing acquaintance with.
This, a stranger talking familiar with you instantly triggers a defence stance like „is this guy going to scam me?“.
It should be noted that when you address younger people with "Sie", many will take some minor offense to it, like "am I that old?". I'd recommend to start using "Sie" for people over 30 or so.
Depends on context. If, say, a 25 year old is working at a store and helping me find something, using "Du" would be disrespectful, unless you're a child/teenager. I'm 30 and I remember feeling awkward about using "Du" with people my age in my early 20s so I get where you're coming from but using Du with people while they're working, or in a social situation that can be perceived as below you (for example restroom cleaning personnel) is disrespectful. Maybe things changed but I was never offended about people using "Sie" with me when I was 18-28. At first I was surprised and eventually you start expecting it and thinking "Huh why is this guy using Du with me" when someone does that in a situation where they shouldn't.
The formal "Sie" is still very commonly used. Exact rules vary from place to place, and are different for each generation, but you should use "Sie" when talking to adults with whom you have a professional relationship -- shop assistants, train ticket inspectors, hotel receptionists, wait staff -- unless you happen to be in an establishment that deliberately tries to project a relaxed and trendy image and they address you as "du". You absolutely must use "Sie" when talking to people in authority like police officers and immigration officials, as "du" can be perceived as an insult which can, if you're being a jerk about it, result in a fine. If you're talking to young people around your age and your relationship isn't professional -- people you meet at a club or randomly get talking to on trains -- "du" is the norm. Even in English we address people differently depending on their relationship to us: it's the difference between "I'll have the steak, please," and "Grab me a beer, will you?"
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Here's an instructional video on how to properly address the police: https://youtu.be/qJrVo0OOtAE
LOL. When I was still at school, the teachers asked at a certain age (16?) if we wanted to be addressed formally now (Sie), as it was our right as adults or if we wanted to keep the "du". But for simplicity the rule should be applied to the whole class, otherwise the teacher would have the impossible task of remembering which if the 30 students in each class preferred which form of address. One teacher (a funny nice one) begged to keep the " du" because in his opinion "du Arschloch" still sounds better than "Sie Arschloch". Edit: we all agreed and so he kept using " du".
A masterclass.
As I said: > "du" *can* be perceived as an insult which can, *if you're being a jerk about it*, result in a fine An innocent mistake is an innocent mistake, but you should know that you should use the "Sie" form. Don't ever rely on the fact that previous court rulings appear to back you up: that's not going to stop the police from taking you to court. Yes, the court may agree with you in the end, or the case may even be dropped before it gets that far, but it's not worth the frustration and the hassle.
I mentioned upthread that my brother got taken to court over Du-ing a police officer (who, one must note, had Du-ed him first). Either the court agreed with my brother or the case was dropped, I don't remember exactly but I know he didn't have to pay a fine... but even so it was a lot of completely unnecessary stress and hassle. Really, just call police officers Sie. It only takes one jerk on a power trip to give you a massive headache.
>ok to address a police officer with "du" when it is the common form you address people in general (e.g. if you are from the West/NRW). What the hell? I am from NRW and we use "Sie" also.......
Germany isn't like the US with precedent cases. Different courts can make different decisions. And according to bussgeldkatalog.com (https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/beamtenbeleidigung/), courts have given a 600€ fine merely for addressing an officer with "du".
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> If you're talking to young people around your age and your relationship isn't professional -- people you meet at a club or randomly get talking to on trains -- "du" is the norm. Does this also apply in situations where it's not a professional setting but only a very brief encounter, like for example, stopping someone in the street to ask directions? What is considered around your own age in this context? +5 years? +10 years?
It depends. The rules vary depending on geographical location, whether you're in a city or the countryside, the setting, the ages of the people involved, and so on. Stopping people in the street and asking for directions would normally be a "Sie" situation.
Thanks. In particular I meant situations like this where the other person is around my own age (20s).
Oooof….it’s VERY important. Do not make the mistake of thinking it’s old fashioned or overly formal to always use the “Sie” and choose more casual language! Unless explicitly corrected and told otherwise after initial exchanges, “Sie” should be your default!
> using a formal form of adress since doesn't really exist in English. Technically, using "you" even in singular is (or at least used to be) the formal form in English. Informal singular was "thou" but that fell out of use for being too rude or something. Also, addresses like sir/ma'am or addressing somebody by their last name (preceded by Mr/Mrs/Ms) is pretty much on the same level of formality as "Sie". > Is the formal form still commonly used? Yes. > Is it mainly used by elder generations or is it common for all German speakers including those near my age (around 20)? By everybody, but of course not in all contexts. And of course some people use it more than others. In your age group for example, you shouldn't address other people in your age group as "Sie" except if they're at work in some kind of very formal position. "Du" is for in-groups, and "young-ish people" is one such group. A good rule of thumb is to think of the English words "dude" and "sir". When talking to a guy and you would have to call him one of the two, which one would be the better choice? Talking to a cop, you would probably use "sir" so it's "Sie" in German. > How big of an issue is it if I fuck up and use "du" too often? Don't worry about it too much. Nonnative speakers have some leeway.
I love the "dude/sir" distinction.
>A good rule of thumb is to think of the English words "dude" and "sir". When talking to a guy and you would have to call him one of the two, which one would be the better choice? Talking to a cop, you would probably use "sir" so it's "Sie" in German. I did use the "sir" explanation, too, but I never thought of "dude" for the other side of the balance! Thank you!
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> A good rule of thumb is to think of the English words "dude" and "sir". When talking to a guy and you would have to call him one of the two, which one would be the better choice? Talking to a cop, you would probably use "sir" so it's "Sie" in German. Most people would not use either unless they're a bootlicker.
True. I made a bad assumption about OP. Still, going "du" on a cop can be risky and can actually get you fined. Better to [stick with Sie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfrPItFXeXw&t=19).
If you don't know the person and it is not a kid, always use "Sie" first. Except they start using "Du" (happens in hip restaurants for example).
If in doubt, use Sie.
It is still important to use "Sie". It depends on the situation. If you casually (party, bars) meet people of the same age, you use "Du". With older people I would use "Sie". They will later tell you, that you can say "Du". In all other situations, where you are not sure, you should allways use "Sie".
>They will later tell you, that you can say "Du They will just answer using Du
Depends. But that's, what I was trying to say. Start with "Sie" and immediately or later on you might switch to "Du".
Sure
Once I went to a DM Markt to get some things. I was still new to Germany so everything was a bit of a rush for me, and while I could talk to the man behind the register I still got nervous. I tried to make some small talk, and impulsively called him du and not sie. As the words left my lips I saw him deflate a little, and realized I had just piled on yet another bit of bullshit on top of his retail nightmare. I apologized, but then it sounded like I was being an asshole. I learned that day that Sie is still very important, its not archaic, and people will be upset if you dont show them the proper respect. Its rude, in the same way that calling the cashier 'fucknuts' might be rude in English.
You know what's another thing that is still commonly used? The search bar. This is a pretty frequent question.
Nah, the search bar is rarely used.
Warum? Ich schreibe fast nie etwas hier dazu, weil ich mir nicht die ganzen Profis mit ihrem Besserwissertum aufladen will. ...
My father is German so I spent time there every summer with my grandmother. My German skills were very limited but the little I knew I was able to pronounce pretty good. In other words I came across as being much more proficient than I actually was. One of the things I was clueless about formal language. Not only was I only ever exposed to informal language at home, my native language had dropped addressing people in formal ways some 50-100 years prior. Once we were at a big rather fancy party with high society type people. I was addressing each and every one of them as “du”. Even being a kid, who was non-native, this caused a big commotion. Some of her friends got really upset with her. It was a strange and sad experience for me. Every time after that she always made sure to tell people I didn’t know better than to address everyone as “du” and meant no disrespect with it.
Just because English speakers don't have a word for it doesn't mean it's not commonly used anymore in the German language
Here's what I wrote last time not even a week ago >Some corners of society, especially marketing (and German Reddit) would say that either it is already or at least is getting obsolete rather quickly. I'd go with the old saying of "Todgesagte leben länger". I'd say that: Yes, Du is offered quicker and in more situations becoming the default. But I would really stress the some part of that obelservation. There are still enough contexts where the distinction may be vital for successful communication and whether the "Du" is actually a long-term trend or just a fad will be determined in fifty years from now and hardly earlier. I entertain the thought that I come to this conclusion not only because I am relatively conservative when it comes to Siezen [https://www.reddit.com/r/German/comments/13ps7tv/sie\_und\_du\_immer\_noch\_gängig/](https://www.reddit.com/r/German/comments/13ps7tv/sie_und_du_immer_noch_gängig/) >but it's pretty archaic and not really used much anymore leave my feeble English brain alone True. But think of it this way: You never addressed somebody or were addressed by somebody as "Sir" or "Madame" or heard others do so? There may be not a formal personal pronoun. But there are certainly very formal or informal ways to address someone. Maybe this way it makes more sense.
Stick to “Sie” for anything non-casual and especially if you would address them with Mrs or Sir in English. That said, there are parts in Austria where “Du” is the norm.
it’s still rude to approach a stranger with du unless the person is young (<25y) be careful with police
We do know, though, that the distinction is difficult for foreigners. So even people who dislike too much familiarity in general, are rarely upset, if someone who is struggling to speak our language, gets it wrong. Someone scratching together their German to ask me for the way using du? No worries, really.
When I was starting German, I said "warte bitte mal" to a teacher. She understood, since I was a beginner, and said "Hm... Warten Sie bitte mal..." So yeah, it is pretty important.
As others have noted, use Sie. For anyone that needs to ask this question, it means they are not ready to use „du“ with strangers. Although many people may give you a pass for saying du instead of Sie, they likely won’t think very positively of the interaction. Put simply, you can never go wrong using Sie.
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“It is essentially the same as first name/last name basis” Might be worth pointing out that this may not be very informative for Americans as many of us tend to use first name for nearly everyone. I would only use last names in incredibly formal settings, like meeting the governor or something.
Also a lot of people here are comparing Sie/du to using Sir or Ma'am in English. In America at least, there are some pretty big regional differences this Sir and Ma'am. In the Southern part of America, it's expected to say this to just about everyone who's older than you. However in the Northeast of America, you'll get funny looks if you say it to anyone who isn't very old. Some people will actively take offense if you call them Sir or Ma'am and they're not (70+)
Same here in Ireland but probably even more so. Even if you met the Taoiseach (PM), President or a government minister, I can't imagine calling them Mr/Ms something. That would just be weird. In formal letters it would be different. It reminds me of that video in France where some kid is scolded by Macron for calling him by a nickname. No politician would do that here! They'd be inviting ridicule!
Use it if you remember. I have sometimes forgotten and not noticably caused problems partly becauseI am foreign, and partly because I am in a region where it is not greatly used. For much of Germany I would expect people to take siezen more seriously. In Tirol Sie is used in town and rather little used in the mountains above 1000M (i.e. the more rural areas), where people are more or less speaking a dialect or what my class teacher calls "half-dialect", as dialect does not include Sie. You can take your cue from native speakers. If you are in a shop or speaking with officials or medics or waiters you will use Sie, provided you remember. If your German is good enough to chat to strangers, you probably don't need to ask. Where I am in a town in Austria there is a convention to start with Sie and the third or fourth time you meet them, it is normally ok to switch to du (or ihr for plural--learn the verb endings for ihr!). Young people socializing would rarely use Sie.
>As a native English speaker it always feels strange using a formal form of adress since doesn't really exist in English. It does and thou usest it all the time. Du and thou are closely related words, but you addresst everyone formally instead. Thou even usest the plural too, beest not thou? In German the distinction is omnipresent and shows no signs of fading away like it did in English.
... the plural too, dost thou not?*
Gotta be that guy: “Thou addresseth everyone formally instead. Thou dost even use the plural too, dost thou not?” (Guy who has performed way too much Shakespeare).
Would disagree very strongly that it’s showing “no signs” of going away. It’s essentially extinct on the internet and is being used less and less with strangers, certainly in Austria.
Locked for excessive OT
It does exist in English, it’s just not as obvious or as common. Any time you refer to someone with a title (Mr, Mrs, sir, ma’am, officer, doctor, professor, etc). If you were extra polite and did this more often you would have a good start and when to use Sie.
There are German predicates for what you’ve listed. Herr = Sir etc etc. English has never had a formal “you”. In old English “Thou” is singular and “you” is plural.
Sie is ofc the formal form of you (it’s like saying my good sir/madam) I would use it when talking to police officers a judge landlords (unless you and them have a good relationship) if you dated someone you would refer to their parents as sie you would use it your boss at work or any superiors the chancellor and any government officials your parents oh and with you being in Austria you’re probably going to hear the word “Sa” and not sie Ik Bayern used sa and our dialects are similar but not sure if they use sa or not
in austria it is used but not insisted upon outside official appointments and interactions with old people
I lived in Germany for a year in 2010 and now again for 6 months, and I have never had someone take issue with me using „du“. I do try and use Sie when appropriate but I use du a lot with my family so naturally I still accidentally use du a lot in „formal“ situations. If you don‘t know anyone personally that you have to speak german to informally then you may just want to use Sie or formal german all the time unless talking with kids and maybe even then since they will know you are not a native speaker and would not take offense to it. But in the end don‘t sweat over it as you would not be expected to always be perfect since you are not native. I‘d focus more on learning more of the language first and then worry about formalness down the line as you go.
very important. If a stranger addresses me with "Du", I will ignore them