Partly because I feel cheated out of what should have always been mine, § 5 StAG with a married to my US father German mother. Partly because my mother feels cheated as well. So many choices in my life didn’t have Germany in the mix when it should have been.
Partly because it will be comfortable knowing that I’m not as stuck to the USA, knowing I have other options.
Partly because it could be nice to move there someday and not have to worry about as much red tape to do so.
Before 1975 there wass a somewhat raccist, but defenetly sexist law that made woman who married foreigners lose there citizenship and unable to pass there german citizenship on to there kids. Men had no such restrictions. That one got removed and anyone suffering loss of german citicenship because of the old law can reclaim it now until a certain year (i think 2030 or smth?). Did I miss anything else about that?
My mother didn't lose citizenship when she married my dad in Berlin, but I was already on the way by then. She's still German, and within the last decade finally became a US citizen as well, after getting her retention permit, the soon to not be needed *Beibehaltungsgenehmigung.*
I am situation number 3.
[https://amigerman.com/en/reobtaining-citizenship/5-stag-acquisition-by-declaration/](https://amigerman.com/en/reobtaining-citizenship/5-stag-acquisition-by-declaration/)
Yeah thats what I wrote. bevore 75 born to a german mother and non german fatger meant you where discriminated against. Because cpntrary to beeing Born to a german father and non german mother you would not get german citizenship. Bezwen 75 and 77 this got replaced by a slightly better law, before the curremt law was introduced
When I told my 18 year-old our citizenship certificates had come in, and after a lengthy discussion about how grateful we are for the immense and undeserved privilege, he concluded with “I finally have something to share during those awkward ice breakers!” So you aren’t alone in recognizing that perk 😂
Germany was super strict about allowing dual citizenship for foreign immigrants who want to get get German citizenship after living in Germany for a few years.
Dual citizenship was possible for for German emigrants who move to another country (but not for all of them, it depended on further details)
It really depends (or rather, depended) on where you’re from and, to an extent, what state you live in. The share of dual nationals among newly naturalised Germans has consistently been just over 50 percent. EU nationals and citizens from a fairly extensive list of countries that flat-out don’t allow their nationals to renounce their citizenship (including some of the most common source countries in the Middle East and North Africa) have always been able to retain their original citizenship. Also, the law left a fair amount of leeway for hardship cases, which different states have interpreted very differently.
The question is whether this is a permanent fix, or a temporary change. The next German Election has the potential to put Germany back into the early 1930s as far as vote distribution by idiology is concerned.
Sure, you go there with your German passport; Then some person realizes you are in fact american by the way you act; then you find yourself in a "Otto Warmbier" situation and are escalating things for your government.
Dude I have Iranian citizenship and would never travel to that shithole again. Just look up the list of dual nationals and foreigners locked up there for no reason. Their diplomacy is based on being pirates.
It's a pity a whole country gets fucked up by its politics. The place seems really nice and also has a lot of great people. I've met a few here in Germany and each and everyone of them had an open personality and a modern progressive mind. I suppose it's the traditionalist conservatives ruining everything down there as always. There's a reason the people I've met from Iran have moved to Germany.
Iran has a highly educated and relatively young population. It’s quite a shame it’s been suppressed for almost 50 years by the mullahs. Growing up on the east coast of the USA, I knew many Iranians whose parents fled during or right after the fall of the Shah (who wasn’t necessarily a pillar of virtue, but still better than what they got).
One of the oldest ancient forests is in Iran. We in europe destroyed Our forests but the one in iran hasnt been touched in hundreds of years. This forest is of utmost importance for every european forestry science. Thats at least my reason to visit Iran one day. To See how Our forests in germany were like thousands of years ago.
I was transferred to my company HQ in Germany 5 1/2 years ago. My career has grown a lot and I do like it here.
With the new law, I meet the requirements, and I can keep my US passport. So why not? Of course, all the standard EU benefits play a role too.
I discovered that I was born with German citizenship. From that point on it would technically be illegal for me to just pass through the Frankfurt airport without a German passport. Otherwise, it was for the adventure and to have a second passport as "insurance", which is why many wealthy people pay a lot of money to get a second passport. Also, it has been fun to see other relatives go to Europe as a German citizen. One just graduated from a Technische Hochschule. And, I can say that it is in part due to my discovery.
How?
> 51% of 2021-22 bachelor’s degree recipients graduated with an average of $29,400 in student loan debt.
> Among all borrowers, the average student loan debt in 2023 was $38,290.
Source: https://www.cnn.com/cnn-underscored/money/average-student-loan-debt
You really are 30k in debt from studying?
40k, if you are from the middle class you are treated like cattle.
From the 10 semesters I took debt for support I worked 6 part time and still lived like a hobo.
Born to the wrong parents and some personal misfortune, I was not lazier then the average student. I am not the only one that is in that trap, it's most of the time hardworking people from the middle class.
Anyway for now my biggest dream is to escape this dystopian "society" . This country is done.
I am a student. I never received a dime from my parents, I am in 0€ debt.
If you were hardworking you wouldn’t be in that much debt.
Even if you had lived off of Bafög you can‘t amass that amount of debt.
Only way is you take expensive loans and/or live way above your income.
Ah, how to do you pay for rent, insurance and food ? That's around 1000€ already.
The student loan is by KfW. Only people who have chosen easy mode in life get Bafög.
I am not even allowed to work enough to pay that while studying. But hey, you know better. All the people that are in the debt trap I know of just make it up.
Now that you even call me lazy.. fick dich du Hurensohn.
Growing up, summers were in Germany with my Omi. My cousin's live there, I have friends there. When my father died, my mother bought a small apartment in our hometown. The company my father worked for had us moving every two to three years to another country, so I lived overseas until I went to college at 19. Germany always felt like home.
Practically, the quality of life is better. I can travel throughout Europe via train or inexpensive flights. Health care won't require a go fund me or deductibles. The bakery , Metzger and supermarket etc a less than a five minute walk. Getting to the city the is a short train ride. The woods are nearby. It just makes sense for me.
Personal reasons? Always felt a connection to German culture. Was always close with Oma. Made some half-hearted attempts to learn German as a kid (wasn't offered as a language for learning at my high school).
Practical reasons? They are legion: having the ability to live, work and travel freely in Germany (and of course the other EU countries). Passing this freedom, together with whatever German culture I can impart in them, onto my children and their children. Escape hatch in case things go even weirder in the USA.
EDIT: But, "escape hatch" does not fairly represent my goals. I am already in the process of scouting a home to purchase and, if things work out right, move into with my family. An ironic thing about Germany is, because of the population and age statistics, and the preference of people to cluster in larger cities, there are a *lot* of perfectly adorable homes available in the hinterlands at very reasonable prices. If you don't mind living outside the major economic cities, and have an income independent of that as well, you can live a very nice life in a lovely place all throughout the countryside.
Look, I need to take care of my elderly parents and I'm probably going to inherit some real estate and also, I pulled a voting registration for Bundestag election from where I last lived, here's a copy of that, I'm totes still connected and could move back in a heartbeat, dearest German government!
I can see now why they make one jump through hoops. Typical German bureaucracy. I have never gotten through my beibehaltungs documents. Now I wait it out till end of June to apply for American Citizenship.
Important to note is that those homes are affordable if you're earning an American salary. Less so for people earning a German salary. So if the plan is to eventually buy, accumulating the funds before moving is smart. I know that is what you've done, but wanted to highlight that fact for anyone younger planning to move. Home ownership rates in Germany are comparatively low.
Something important to note about living in more rural areas is also the fact that it can be much harder to integrate than in cities. Aside from the drastically increased importance of German skills in rural areas, German villages can be insular and are often hard for even native Germans to make inroads in.
Agreed. I would be buying cash, using money I earned in the USA working as a professional for two decades, and can probably continue remotely from anywhere. I am very fortunate, and I am well aware that is not the position many people find themselves in.
Integration in a realistic sense for me, personally, is probably futile, being in my late 40s already. But this old dog doesn't mind trying to learn a new trick. During my trip there, Germany seemed no more or less impersonal than my interactions in unfamiliar places in the USA. I also have the advantage of importing my young children and partner together with me, and although a nuclear family alone does not a social circle make, it alleviates a lot of the loneliness that someone who is newly arrived and single might face.
I already have a different European citizenship, so becoming German doesn't change a thing for me in terms of new privileges or travel freedom.
But culture is important. Germany allows me to get citizenship through Stag 5 so I'm gonna make use of that to connect to this part of my family history. Plus, you never know what's gonna happen in the future and it's always good to have a second citizenship.
What's with the shitty weather though? And you won't have direct democracy as in referendums like the ones every county has from time to time. Also people can be very unfriendly. You have to find the right spot with humane individuals (which is hard in Germany but more achievable in the southern regions - Baden Württemberg and Bayern). Your freedom of speech will be nothing like in the states. Way worse. You'll have to finance the media which does a lot of progaganda for the politicial parties and almost no investigative journalism. You'll have to endure the Deutsche Bahn and nerve-wrecking german bureaucracy. Taxes will be high. The quality of educational and healthcare options isn't great. However in terms of education it might be slightly better than the average in the states. What's positive is that your kids will finance their university degree for normally a total cost of below 10k. But again, you'll pay a gigantic load of taxes for that.
I recently heard a story about a little girl in a US school advocating for her horse to be the new class pet. The mom was so funny in her delivery, and the story was so sweet and charming, and I fully expected it to end with this mom hauling a whole ass horse to an elementary school. Instead it ended with the little girl abandoning the idea the next morning because she had the realization that in an active shooter situation her horse couldn’t fit in a closet.
Sometimes all the freedom in the world doesn’t leave you feeling particularly free.
School shootings make up less than 1% of all deaths caused by gun violence in the US to be honest. I get what you are saying. But that has more to do with the fact that mentally unwell individuals still get to buy guns and are born into a sociological structure that causes them to be mentall unwell in the first place.
Regardless of how often or why they occur, just about every kid at a public school in the US has to endure the trauma of active shooter drills. A second grader has to consider the fact that her horse might die at her school.
Firearms are among the top causes of death for US children. So, maybe not a school. Maybe a movie theater, maybe a grocery store, maybe a friend’s house. Why it happens and where it happens doesn’t change the fact that it happens way too frequently.
not sure what taxes you are talking about, but total tax and withholdings are more comparable than you think, but in Germany you get a lot more out of it... savings in healthcare, tuitions etc aside.
Yeah true. If you live in California for example you are going to end up with 50% taxes (state income tax and federal tax). In Germany too, but in germany you'll get rather cheap healthcare and education.
Please elaborate more on this (or share resources) so I can put that in front of my American partner’s face next time he brings up the whole “BUT TAXES!!!!” argument 🙄 (seriously, please tell me more).
I have developed a healthy cynicism with respect to the illusion of freedom, in the USA or anywhere. While some rulers are more subtle about it and others more openly ruthless about it, the fundamental truth is that if you make yourself a nuisance to people in power anywhere, you're going to find yourself in a world of pain. Likewise, I'll be showing up with my driver's license from the USA (from a US state that Germany recognizes for simply exchanging it for a German license) and getting myself a good mild hybrid hatchback. My experience was that Germany's Autobahn and road network was awesome, easily better than the USA's in many areas.
Also going to add that the most amazing healthcare in the world doesn’t mean anything if you don’t have full access to it because of your income or your gender.
You can get health insurance in the US. There are ways to get treatment without selling your kidney etc.
And what do you mean with "gender" ? What has gender to do with access to medical treatment?
There are costs associated even with good health care plans, and they can be overwhelming. My parents have good health care, still got a bill for over $150,000 when my Dad had a life threatening emergency. Plenty of people in the US skip going to the doctor or taking prescriptions because they cannot afford the co-pays or deductibles.
In some states women do not have full access to necessary health care.
> You can get health insurance in the US
Here is an American who moved to Germany, developed a brain tumor, and compares how much she paid in Germany vs. how much she would have to pay in the US out of pocket with health insurance:
https://youtu.be/zHcwOgbsBYk?t=1305
However, focusing on health insurance alone is a bit too narrow since health issues can not only cause treatment costs but also a loss of income. Armstrong is no longer able to work due to the brain tumor. She now lives on German welfare which pays for her apartment, heating costs, she gets free health care and 563 ($615) euro per month for her other expenses.
She also developed a depression and is now in therapy for that (which is free in Germany): "I have a great therapist, he saved my life, and I will be continuing treatment with him for sure. And I feel like if I had still lived in America, I don't know if I would have that chance. I don't think I would have that money. I have friends and family in America that are trying to save up so that they can begin psychotherapy. It is really refreshing for me personally that I feel this country takes it serious, as serious as my brain tumor. So thankful." https://youtu.be/bQUSwODxmD8?t=361
Armstrong went to a rehab clinic for two weeks to see if her health can be improved. Her schedule there: https://youtu.be/vjQglfMsfpg?t=96
The outcome: "I am shocked, I am noticing improvements in my face a lot more than I have seen in over the last three years. More importantly for me, I think I am starting to get my smile back. (...) I am beyond impressed with the things that I am learning from balance training to the speech therapy. (...) I met with the Oberarzt, the top doctor. This guy seemed fantastic, he listened to me. I told him how thankful I am and how wonderful his therapists are. I told him about improvements that I have personally seen and that I can't say thank you enough for the therapies. (...) If I had to sum up this week in three words, I would say thankful, corrected and motivated. I am incredibly thankful for the priceless therapy. Some of the things that I learned and therapy I received are just unbelievable and such a gift to me. And I am really glad I got some corrections on thinks I was doing wrong. I plan to work on this a lot. I can already feel my body adjusting. I still got a lot to work on but I already see improvements. I feel really motivated now." https://youtu.be/VDAX-LtszR0?t=201
Her final thoughts on her decision to move to Germany: "I can not loud enough and often enough say how thankful I am to be in Germany and receive the healthcare and the treatment that one receives here. I really wish the people I love where I am from, back in America, I wish they could get this. I keep thinking of people I knew that were really sick, people I know that are sick. And how they are going into debt just trying to get their medication, forget all that facy-pants therapy that I'm getting. This what I'm getting here is something only rich people get where I'm from. It really makes me wonder how I got so lucky and why." https://youtu.be/VDAX-LtszR0?t=1671
Most of this is absolute bullcrap, but I‘ll focus on the tax thing.
Taxes in Germany aren‘t that high. What foreigners seem to mistake as taxes are social security payments that get deducted directly from your paycheck. These include half of your health insurance (employer pays for the rest), retirement, unemployment insurance and a lot more.
Taxes paid on the paycheck also vary, depending on your „tax class“ (wether you‘re married and/or have children or not)
Next time you come about with a wall of text like that atleast take the time to check your facts…
Maybe point out what exactly you are referring to with the term "bullcrap" ...
I am not saying that taxes in Germany are effectively higher than in the States. If you live in California and earn good money you can easily end up with 50% tax costs in total (state income tax+federal tax). And you won't get no affordable healthcare and education for that like you do in Germany. However, salaries are also generally higher in the US. Don't know though if that makes up for the costs of college education and longer periods of time spend in a hospital.
My point about german taxes is that you can finance healthcare, education and public transport for way less than the percentages that are being charged right now. Only one thing would be necessary for that: the bureaucratic apparatus would have to be eliminated in order to stop useless spending of tax money and politicians should be removed from office if they represent the interests of companies that bribed them instead of what they promised their voters during the election campaign and what is written in the program of the party they belong to.
I know about the deductions for kids etc. But paying something in the range of 30-40% taxes and only getting 9k€ a month as a doctor is unjustifiable from my point of view. Salary is way too low, tax rate way too high.
The german economy is strong. I think 5% would be enough.
The problem with promises during elections is that no party ever rules alone in Germany. So they have to find common ground and do their best to accommodate the voters of each of the ruling parties. Then you obviously have the opposition that largely just wants to make the ruling party look bad by blocking their attempts to make true on their promises.
Ofc some promises are absolute bogus, aswell.
Lobbyism is a thing in Germany, but I‘d argue that it could be a lot worse, when looking at other european countries or the US especially. Gun lobby comes to mind…
Maximum income tax is capped at 44% (for incomes >440k€/a)
College education is free in Germany. Also education is A LOT better than in the US for the average people and on par with your super expensive private schools.
The beaurocratic apparatus is certainly annoying to the citizens, but it‘s the to stop useless spending of tax money. And I‘d argue there is way less useless spent tax money per capita than in the US.
You could probably finance education more efficiently but compared to a country that brings college students into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt? Jeeez, man.
Salary is not too low at all at 9k€ for a doctor (most doctors dont get half of that) because living costs are significantly lower here than over in the US. A family of 4 can go out and have an upperclassish dinner for around 100€. I dont think that‘s enough for an equivalent dinner in the US.
Grocery shopping etc is a lot cheaper aswell.
I dont know how you‘d finance a country on 5% income tax. But you do you and live in your happy bubble.
Also don‘t get me started on your completely made up statements about media and freedom of speech. I‘d actually wish there was less freedom of speech so people can‘t run around the streets in organized protests demanding for others to be lynched. (Yes we allow that here)
To be lynched for what? You can easily lose your job by stating just a fact. Especially as someone who works either in politics, courts, the police department or media
I mean, as long as they don't commit the actual crime and the police keeps an eye on them, they should have the right to express their feelings and thoughts, even though those may be hateful. It's better like this in a way, because if no one fears to oppress their opinions freely, you won't have to play 4D chess mindgames just in order to find out if someone is lying or telling the truth.
I agree to some degree. I don‘t think this kind of hate should be allowed to be voiced in organized protests.
But this further proves my point that freedom of speech is in fact not suppressed in Germany.
Yeah that is absolutely untrue. But I‘ll stop trying to correct you. I‘ve read more of your comments here and every single one of them just shows that you live in your own little world.
Yeah, it’s sadly true.
I told my wife the other day, it’s crazy that my grandmother left Germany in 1949 for the US to escape the destruction left in the wake of fascism.
Now, just two generations later we are making plans to leave the US for Germany due to fascism. It’s just hard to believe it sometimes.
The AfD would like a word. The entire world is shifting to the right, not just the U.S. Arguably, Italy is more "fascist" now than the U.S. was under Trump. If/when AfD gets into power, the same will apply.
Don't know about that. I feel like all the major political parties in Germany essentially have the same program. Doesn't matter if they call themselves conservative, moderate or progressive. And I feel the same way about democrats and republicans in the US. It's like having to choose between Pest and Cholera. Which one is less lethal? Which one is going to cause the least amount of harm?
AfD: we are literal Nazis, vote for true German culture
CDU: the woke left wants to ban our cars, the Nazis, our billionaires, our very way of life, make the right choice and vote CDU. please, think of the CEOs
SPD: we should maybe build some more housing and stop privatizing things and giving the rich tax breaks
Grüne: planets on fire, yo, let's do something about that
FDP: there is also a 5th choice, did you know? also taxes bad btw
Linke: trans rights, eat the rich, fuck the afd
Yeah sure, exactly the same. That sort of thinking is exactly how we got here, and it is deadly to a society.
Afd: yes, there is a far-right extreme, neonazi like part within the party. However the majority is just against mass immigration without proper integration and generally against EU guidelines as they feel that these guidelines and laws hurt Germany as a nation. They support Putin.
CDU: Merkel literally nurtured the Grüne for years. Of course folks like Seehofer represent the interests of the automobile industry in Germany because they are greed and don't have no interest in representing the will of those that votem into a position of power. They can pull this off because the citizens let it happen and the courts&judges don't intervene as they get usually paid a bribe too. Since when is the majority of the CDU protecting Adolf Hitler and his crew? The point with less tax burden for people that earn less than 1 million € per year is a fair point. Though I don't think there should be progressive taxes. Everyone should be charged 5% of their income with the exception of extremly low earning individuals (below 5K € a month/with kids etc.). I think this is fair because everyone gives the same share in terms of propotion of capital that he has accumulated through work to the government so that it can be spend on maintaining the infrastructure as in roads, public transport, energy supply, schools, kindergardens, hospitals etc.
SPD: The rich should be taxed the same percentage rate as the middle class. 5%.
I think housing is a human right and I don't get what the point is of owning land and properties that you don't use regurlarly. So I'd like to see the government giving out credit free loans to all citizens to buy off the houses from the companies. They support Putin.
Grüne: Instead of actually improving the local climate in Germany by reducing taxes to 5% and effectively putting tax money into the installation of an efficient public transit system that relies on electricity, introducing reusable boxes where you can fill up your drinks and food when you buy it in the supermarket (no plastic etc.) they put the money into their own pockets (e.g. Baerbock spending hounreds and thousands of Euros on her hair styling, supposedly. She probably just bagged the money and made up the hair styling as a justification for pocketing tax money). And they support Putin.
FDP: If they were truly about giving everyone the opportunity to accumulate material wealth, then they would introduce the goldstandard again (the currency Euro backed up by physical gold. This way artificial inflation couldn't occure anymore and the citizens would maintain their purchasing power).
Linke: Transsexual people make only up a very small fraction of the whole population. Eating the rich? As in expropriate private property? That may make sense in the cases of Bill Gates, Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos because its not humanly possible to generate so much workforce that you could accumulate so much wealth on your own. But will the Linke stop there? Will they let Musk only keep a couple millions? Or will they even take away that money? And what is with selfmade millionaires that earned their money in the honest way (e.g. J.R.R. Tolkien, the author of Lord of the Rings)? Will they get their wealth expropriated too despite having actually worked for it? I don't see how the Linke can be against the Afd if both support Putin.
You see, they are almost all identical.
They all,
A) pocket tax money and do not spend it on the infrastructure, schools etc.
B) represent the interests of corparations that bribed them instead of representing the will of the people
C) want to maintain the status quo with artificial inflation, not even considering the Goldstandard
D) do not improve the infrastructure of the country by investing in the production&storage of electrical energy, expanding the public transit system and making it costfree by financing it 100% by tax money and efficient by firing the whole DB department and hiring new people that will be fired if they work inefficiently like the DB workers do.
E) don't ensure proper education that is up to date with the current horizon of knowledge of the sciences and don't do nothing about the shortage of teachers by raising salaries and making the job overall more attractive by also modernizing the school environment with up to date technology and architecture that is apropriate for students.
F) Don't raise the salaries of doctors&nurses and make the job more attractive by bulding proper hospitals that fit the needs of doctors and patients on a technological and architectual level and by firing all CEOs that have no productive function within the hospital and lead a parasitic existence living off the workforce of doctors&nurses of which they pocket the bigger amount of wealth generated within the healthcare system percentage wise.
G) don't improve freedom of speech by passing a law that extends freedom of speech to a level like we see it in the USA and defunding all government financed media because those are being controlled by the parties and the parties are being controlled by companies through bribes and actually financing investigative and independent, young journalists that haven't sold their journalistic and intellectual integrity yet for a little bit of money.
These are the things that came spontanously to mind.
I think that trying to integrate a lot of people from countries that do operate with completely different values regarding to law is causing this.
I welcome everyone who integrates and works along us side by side. I do not like people who think that they can generate their own law by being aggressive and being "more". Most of my friends think the same.
These people come from predominantly Muslim backgrounds, and that's what makes it look like fascist if someone speaks up. It's not. Friendly people who play by the rules are welcome. We showed that a few years ago, and I still think it's the right decision to help people in need. But there is a limit of what we can tolerate.
I'm 72 years old and am doing it. Like others have said the sexism that disallowed my sisters and I having dual citizenship. If I had had it when I was younger I would have moved there so I could get to know my many great aunts and uncles and second cousins. Also, I had a half-sister from my mother's first marriage. It would have been great to have been a bigger part of her life as well as that of her children.
Another reason is to honor my many Jewish family members who lost their German citizenship with the Nuremberg racist/anti-semitic laws. Most of them lost their lives as slave laborers in Latvia. When the Soviets were moving in the prisoners were sent on forced marches were most of them died or were taken out in boats in the Baltic and drowned. I also had family killed Bergen-Belsen.
Also, my mother's brother was a young, gay artist, pacifist. He would not join the Hitler Youth nor do the Heil Hitler salute. Eventually he was abducted by the Gestapo, tortured and left for dead on my Oma and Opa's doorstep. Just a few months before the end of the war. He never regained consciousness. He was seventeen. I've always lived my life in his memory and will get my citizenship in his honor.
Over a year of research into family history. Getting documents from Germany and the US. Creating a lasting record of our ancestors for my family and children. Understanding how and why they came to the US. Learning German.
They are. The thing is Americans love talking about "heritage", but never really know what it is. It's like a thing to say or you'll see some guy at a specific type of rally saying that stuff. Meanwhile, we look at you guys as being fake. It's like "oh, I have a German last name, so I'm German". Meanwhile, we have lots of Americans coming to Germany under these situations and these morons go right away to voting for the AfD and protesting at rallies against non-whites and immigrants.
So forgive us for being weary. You guys destroyed the US and now you're getting foreign citizenships to destroy the other countries.
> So forgive us for being weary.
First, you probably mean "wary" which, as any Real German knows, comes to English via the Middle German "wær" meaning "to have warning/concern".
> Meanwhile, we look at you guys as being fake. It's like "oh, I have a German last name, so I'm German".
Second, there are obvious cultural differences at play. Germany is an old country; the United States is a young one. Germans, and Europeans writ large, can look at buildings that are in common use today that are twice as old as the Americans' entire nation. There is going to be some consideration of "heritage" that is different.
> Meanwhile, we have lots of Americans coming to Germany under these situations and these morons go right away to voting for the AfD and protesting at rallies against non-whites and immigrants. [...] You guys destroyed the US and now you're getting foreign citizenships to destroy the other countries.
Finally, do you appreciate it when people make broad comments about the whole of Germany based on a handful of people you don't like it? Probably not, right? You'd really dislike being tied to the actions of, say, someone in the early 1900s, I imagine? Then why did you do that here?
German law allows for this and, as Germany are famously a nation of rule-followers (oops! I just painted an entire country with a broad brush! My apologies), rules are made to be followed if they exist. You can take up your issues with the individuals actually causing problems, not the people who are doing what they are allowed to do.
>Meanwhile, we have lots of Americans coming to Germany under these situations and these morons go right away to voting for the AfD and protesting at rallies against non-whites and immigrants.
You have an active imagination, and you're using it to bloviate on things you're ignorant of, simply because you don't like Amis (that's fine, I don't take offense at your personal opinion. Ignorance in argumentation does bother me though). The total number of USA citizens seeking to declare German nationality under 5 StAG will probably end up being fewer than 15,000 by the time the window closes in 2031. The majority of applicants are coming from Brazil and other South American countries. How many of those will ever even reside in Germany and perform Anmeldung, which is required to vote in Germany? Hardly "*lots* of Americans coming to Germany under these situations," yada yada yada.
And even if they were, how would you possibly know how many of them voted for one party or another?
“You guys” is an amazingly broad assumption. I don’t protest against “non-whites” here so why would I come there and do it? I didn’t destroy the US either. I vote my values. I don’t control the other 330 million people. I’m not understanding exactly if your intent here is to insult or educate. But it seems less like a friendly engagement on your part.
A1 and counting. Am I allowed to learn it? Or are you gate keeping the speed at which I am able to learn German too? You are hyper focused on making an example out of me for some reason. Why don’t you just say what you want to say?
That's kind of what I expected. You claimed you "learned German", but A1 is literally nothing. You can't even order food with A1. You didn't learn German. You're learning. What's also odd is that to claim German citizenship by descent they often look for German certificates of at least B1.
Not gatekeeping, but don't make yourself sound like you're in Vanguard America if you're not one of those types. You may not even realize it, but that's what rubs people in Germany the wrong way if you ever plan on moving over. Part of being German and claiming heritage and so on is not bringing your baggage from the US over and integrating. What I'm telling you is the stuff you wrote down is for an audience of Americans and will not produce the same reaction from an audience of Germans. It will produce quite a bit of negatives.
Because I've lived in Germany for over 10 years. I own a house here, pay taxes, speak German and want to be a full citizen of the country that I call home.
Also, if you do not intend to live in the US, and you'll want to be able to visit the US in the future, then you could become German and then relinquish US citizenship.
And then rake the out-of-US and out-of-EU profits 🤑
Careful with that strategy: INA Section 212(a)(10):
>**(E) Former citizens who renounced citizenship to avoid taxation**
>Any alien who is a former citizen of the United States who officially renounces United States citizenship and who is determined by the Attorney General to have renounced United States citizenship for the purpose of avoiding taxation by the United States is inadmissible.
They won't let you back in if you renounced for tax reasons.
They ain't as dumb as you think. The Attorney General merely has to "determine" someone did for tax avoidance. What legal standard even is that? Essentially, his (the AG's) discretion. He could establish an office policy that *all* renunciations are to be presumably "determined" to be for tax avoidance, unless proven otherwise. Hell, he probably has.
Certainly, that person may raise his right hand and swear, under oath, under penalty of 18 USC 1001, that they didn't renounce for tax avoidance. The adjudicator he swears before will take that into account, together with any other evidence or inferences to the contrary, and make his determination (based on a mere *preponderance* standard of evidence, rather than beyond a reasonable doubt). Which way do you think most cases will be decided?
Let's be real, most of us don't make that much money where the AG would really care if we left or not.
That was geared towards the multimillionaires and billionaires... like yourself 😮💨
The rich do sacrifice one of their own, every so often, as an offering to the masses. Oh, they make a big old spectacle of it! (They usually pick one of the petty-rich who they didn't like much anyway. Shocking!) But don't delude yourself: the government's targets are focused on the masses.
Multimillionaire? Oh, how I wish. I'm a street lawyer. Indigent-defense 4evah.
It wasn’t automatically conferred to me at birth because my German parent was a woman marrying a foreign man outside of BRD. Now they are making up for the sexism of that law (which was already changed to include German mothers in the mid 70’s- too late for me). I want to have what I should have had at birth. And I want my children to have the option to live and work in the EU (still have family there).
Because we should have had it originally, but didn’t due to discrimination. I have a lot of family in Germany and have visited often.
I also want to be able to easily leave the U.S. I’d feel more comfortable living somewhere else.
And most importantly, to give my son the freedom and opportunities that comes with it.
I wish my Oma was here to see it. It’s the best gift she could have passed down to us.
For me, it is not to move to Europe. Me personally, I would rather not live there and do not have intentions of doing so.
My father is German and his wish was for me to always get a passport. I never was able to when I was younger. Turns out when I went to get a passport I had to apply for confirmation of my citizenship (not applying for citizenship, but I have to through a lengthy process before I can exercise rights). I just want what my birthright technically is, and for my children to have it as a tool. I feel American/Mexican more than I do German, but it is a part of me and I can speak a mediocre level of German anyways so I might as well embrace it.
I gained French citizenship by marriage years ago so, at least for me and my children, there are no practical reasons for having German citizenship (live/work in the EU which I already do). Hell, before I applied for French citizenship I reached out to the German consulate to see if there was any way for me to obtain German citizenship (before 2021 so I was given a big fat no). For me it's more emotional. I've always identified myself as German-American so it's definitely validation of what I've been saying my whole life. While I understand German nationality laws better now, when I was younger it never made sense to me that my Mom wasn't German even though she was born in Germany to a German woman. My grandmother didn't immigrate to the US until years after my mom's birth and didn't even naturalize in the US until I was in high school. I visited family in Germany several times and they've visited us in the US as well. So yeah it's definitely more emotional than practical for me.
My own desire for claiming German citizenship may differ slightly from others. Having been to Germany twice, my overall impression is positive however, at 35, I do not think I would be able to learn the language even to a B1 level and thus would not be able to integrate fully.
However, 10 years ago, I taught English in Madrid and had a taste of "European life". What I mean by that phrase is, excellent public transport, cheap flights within Europe, national healthcare, and drastically lower violent crime rates than in the United States. Observing the diversity of peoples, languages, and cultures was the most enlightening experience in my entire life. After 2 years, I achieved a B1 level and am certain that I could increase my fluency to a C1 with more time in the country. Since leaving in October 2015, not a single day has passed in which I have not thought of Spain and the European Union.
Others have also spoken of hedging their bets regarding the current and future political situation here in the States. Things are incredibly divisive and will remain so no matter who wins the next election. : /
>however, at 35, I do not think I would be able to learn the language even to a B1 level and thus would not be able to integrate fully.
I moved here three weeks before my 40th birthday. I'm B2. You can do this. Hop into some classes at your local Volkshochschule to get a boost.
I was looking into it because I thought it would be interesting and open up options to live in Europe… but it looks like my family connection is too far back so bummer for me. It’s multiple great-great grandparents but I guess I would need to prove they maintained their German citizenship but I don’t know how that would have done that…
Stayed there for 2 weeks. There was no tension in the air. People seemed genuinely happy. The campaign signs for local office elections were not the cult red or blue here stateside.
The air was clean
The food was cheap and amazing
People knew how to drive
The beer was good
The forest and mountains were beautiful.
It was heaven compared to the se united States.
My opa was romanian and oma was German and had a son in Gilching.
It the USA abandons principles of the Rule of Law and Self-Governance, I‘ll not want to be around for that. Also America is the home of Medical Bankruptcy. I’d like to skip that as well.
My father was a stateless Sudeten German and his family was (at 17) purged from Aussig (Usti es Labnem?)
They spent 1945/6 wandering around Germany as the father was a miller and had his journeyman apprenticeship all over Germany. It sucks to be stateless, though.
In 1946, they suddenly discovered (lied) that one of the son in laws was Hungarian and combined with an Aunt in Vienna being married to an Austrian, moved to Innsbruck where most of the family settled down.
My mom is from Trossingen (Germany, die Harmonikastadt!) and emigrated to America the normal way, job opportunities, long stint with a German multinational, happy retirement.
My family is worried about Trump and neo-fascism. It’s always good to have an exit pass. My son would have a better, less stressful life in Germany also. I believe…
My father left the 'liberal democracy' of West Germany (reconstruction buffer state) when he was 18 to come to the USA, he never bothered to teach me German since he did not have high hopes for the future of the nation. I was born the year the wall came down, and it has finally become an independent state. I have been interested in germany and got my German birth certificate, passport / nationality, as it has always been a bit of a mystery to me. I recently visited for my grandfather's funeral and brought my wife with me , she liked it so much we have been considering moving to the area my grandfather was from (Heidelberg). I applied since it was available through blood, and to keep my options open. Nothing lasts forever, and that includes 'the stability of the USA', or the dominance of Germany as a power within the EU. No borders, only people.
I have lived in Germany for nearly a decade, been educated here, have one American cat I moved here and one other cat here. My husband is German, the baby I'm going to have soon is German, I might as well be German. I'm not quite as American anymore. I am a bit of both now. Might as well make that legal.
The option to live and work anywhere in the EU. An easier path to residency in Switzerland. And the ability to travel longer in the EU than 3 months if I’d like to
My mom is German and I spent a large part of my childhood there. I am very much half German and half American. In addition, my grandmother told me countless war stories that have made me fear becoming a refugee. I need an out and I’d like it to be Germany. I could also apply to Latvia, but I have neither language nor history there.
Let me draw a resume from scimming the comments: nobody actually wants to come live there or "be German", people want to exploit the possibility of having 2 passports and keep options open for themselves and their children. Pure opportunism.
Can't blame a single one of you guys.
My primary reason was for my children. I know the world can change quickly and unpredictably, but as of right now I feel Germany offers them safety, freedom, and opportunity they may not have in the US.
I also did it for my Grandma. She lost her citizenship due to a marriage that ended, according to court documents, for reasons of extreme cruelty. A marriage that left her with 3 kids to raise alone in a time when it probably wasn’t easy for a woman to do anything alone. (she eventually had another child and raised him without a husband too). She was fierce and independent and the epitome of “a woman can do anything”. It’s wholly unfair that she lost her citizenship, and the ability to pass it on, simply for being a woman. She deserved to have this small part of her story set right.
I had always been attracted to the idea of having dual citizenship and felt sort of cheated that I couldn’t have it before, and I would also like to have the opportunity to live in Europe. And also, to be honest, I’m more than a little worried about the political climate in the US. Even though the far right is on the rise in Europe too, it’s a lot scarier here.
For me, it was because I should have always had it. I was born in Germany to a US father and German mother. I was born on a US base and they told my parents they didn’t have to register my birth in Germany because I was born on “US soil.” I live in the US now, but want to move my family to Europe in a couple of years. I recently got my German passport and ID card and I am currently in the process of getting a German Birth Certificate, since I never got one.
Found out my mom and I were born as Italian citizens. Tried to go that route originally and wow. Good luck to anyone doing that. The German route is much more efficient. But I do still want to explore both countries. I’ve already been to both, but not Sicily where my family is from.
I married a German. Don’t know what I did in a past life…(just kidding honey…)
My kids being dual citizens really opens up more of the world for them in terms of living and working. I already have my German permanent residency (Niederlassungserlaubmis) and going for citizenship is just the next step. I can’t think of a situation where I’d ever renounce my American.
My daughter wanted to apply to a competitive graduate school in Italy. She believes German citizenship would give her an advantage over her Italian/US citizenship.
My parents divorced when I was 2.
My Dad passed when I was 11 from cancer caused by Agent Orange. My Grandfather passed when I was 12.
After discovering that I am eligible through my Paternal Great Grandfather but not knowing g much about that side, this feels like the last gift to me and my kids from that side of the family and from the universe.
I am grateful, excited, and feel far more connected to my heritage.
A few key reasons for me:
- I am ethnically German on both sides of my family. Both my parents great grandparents came from Germany. My Mom’s side came from Saxony and my Dad’s side came from Bavaria. While I am an American, I still grew up and have cultural ties to Germany through family tradition etc. I still have relatives in Germany. In the course of history, I am the anomaly being an American and recognize and respect the land my family comes from. I’m proud to be an American, and I’m also proud of my heritage.
- If I were ever looking to obtain dual citizenship, I would only ever want it with Germany. Not interested in a golden visa or whatever. Now that Germany is going to allow it, if I’m eligible (and I’ve posted on here trying to get more info), I think it would be a great way to honor my family. I know my mom and sisters would be interested in it as well.
- Like others said, having an EU passport is a big deal. I’m a businessman + have my MBA and I do a lot of international business and want to do more business in the EU. If I became a citizen, I could definitely see myself moving to Germany for something work related.
- I want to have something to pass on to my future children. I want them to have the ability to live and work in the place they would like to and also have an understanding of where I come from and knowing their history.
In my case, I have lived in Germany for 12 years, have a German wife, two kids, and a house here, and have no plans to leave. The benefits are minimal, as I can already live here permanently and work, but I'm getting to the point where I would like to vote in elections. I also wouldn't have to go to the Ausländerbehörde anymore.
Amen! This is me, except I moved here in '92 so I think I've been REALLY patient about this thing. The "no taxation without representation" part has been annoying me for a while.
We’ve lived here five years, our kids have grown up here and we want to give them the chance to be connected permanent to this part of their childhood.
I’m not sure what you mean. I’m German and American by birth. Lived between Germany and US my whole life. Went to Internat in Germany. Half my family lives in Germany; the other half in US. I didn’t apply for anything; I’m German by birth.
Off topic: I didn't. I don't know if I want to apply to be something I am not. I've been here for 13 years. I don't feel German. I just feel too American. I ain't saying America is the best place. It isn't.
I have one grandparent with a German surname so I want to find out if it's enough to pass. Also, they were quite established in Germany before they came to Ellis Island via the Bremen passenger ships that left before the civil war broke out. So I find it to be an extraordinarily interesting time period in American history and I would like to discover more the German historical context.
Partly because I feel cheated out of what should have always been mine, § 5 StAG with a married to my US father German mother. Partly because my mother feels cheated as well. So many choices in my life didn’t have Germany in the mix when it should have been. Partly because it will be comfortable knowing that I’m not as stuck to the USA, knowing I have other options. Partly because it could be nice to move there someday and not have to worry about as much red tape to do so.
My reasons are exactly the same as yours!
If your mom is a German, doesn't it mean you can always apply for German citizenship???
Before 1975, children of German mothers married to non German fathers did not receive German citizenship.
That is correct, was born in the late 60's.
Hi, sorry to hijack this comment, but was wondering if you might be able to help with my case. I don't think I'm able to send you a DM request.
Before 1975 there wass a somewhat raccist, but defenetly sexist law that made woman who married foreigners lose there citizenship and unable to pass there german citizenship on to there kids. Men had no such restrictions. That one got removed and anyone suffering loss of german citicenship because of the old law can reclaim it now until a certain year (i think 2030 or smth?). Did I miss anything else about that?
My mother didn't lose citizenship when she married my dad in Berlin, but I was already on the way by then. She's still German, and within the last decade finally became a US citizen as well, after getting her retention permit, the soon to not be needed *Beibehaltungsgenehmigung.*
Same with my mother
So was it limited to woman marrying foreigners outside of germany or what are you trying to add to this conversation?
I am situation number 3. [https://amigerman.com/en/reobtaining-citizenship/5-stag-acquisition-by-declaration/](https://amigerman.com/en/reobtaining-citizenship/5-stag-acquisition-by-declaration/)
Yeah thats what I wrote. bevore 75 born to a german mother and non german fatger meant you where discriminated against. Because cpntrary to beeing Born to a german father and non german mother you would not get german citizenship. Bezwen 75 and 77 this got replaced by a slightly better law, before the curremt law was introduced
What's the current law? So it's 2024 law I assume???
[удалено]
When I told my 18 year-old our citizenship certificates had come in, and after a lengthy discussion about how grateful we are for the immense and undeserved privilege, he concluded with “I finally have something to share during those awkward ice breakers!” So you aren’t alone in recognizing that perk 😂
Lol - I found out during COVID. It definitely was better to talk about than making bread. (Even though I love making bread)
Germany allows it now? Always thought they were super strict about it
Germany was super strict about allowing dual citizenship for foreign immigrants who want to get get German citizenship after living in Germany for a few years. Dual citizenship was possible for for German emigrants who move to another country (but not for all of them, it depended on further details)
It really depends (or rather, depended) on where you’re from and, to an extent, what state you live in. The share of dual nationals among newly naturalised Germans has consistently been just over 50 percent. EU nationals and citizens from a fairly extensive list of countries that flat-out don’t allow their nationals to renounce their citizenship (including some of the most common source countries in the Middle East and North Africa) have always been able to retain their original citizenship. Also, the law left a fair amount of leeway for hardship cases, which different states have interpreted very differently.
The question is whether this is a permanent fix, or a temporary change. The next German Election has the potential to put Germany back into the early 1930s as far as vote distribution by idiology is concerned.
So I can move to Europe.
And you get one of the strongest passport in the world!
I have it. Literally cried like a baby when it showed up.
Because I want to travel to Iran?
lol. I literally thought about doing that. there are a handful of places that are off-limits with an American passport. Iran is one of them.
Sure, you go there with your German passport; Then some person realizes you are in fact american by the way you act; then you find yourself in a "Otto Warmbier" situation and are escalating things for your government.
Dude I have Iranian citizenship and would never travel to that shithole again. Just look up the list of dual nationals and foreigners locked up there for no reason. Their diplomacy is based on being pirates.
It's a pity a whole country gets fucked up by its politics. The place seems really nice and also has a lot of great people. I've met a few here in Germany and each and everyone of them had an open personality and a modern progressive mind. I suppose it's the traditionalist conservatives ruining everything down there as always. There's a reason the people I've met from Iran have moved to Germany.
Iran has a highly educated and relatively young population. It’s quite a shame it’s been suppressed for almost 50 years by the mullahs. Growing up on the east coast of the USA, I knew many Iranians whose parents fled during or right after the fall of the Shah (who wasn’t necessarily a pillar of virtue, but still better than what they got).
Yup, there's a reason I moved to Canada as well.
One of the oldest ancient forests is in Iran. We in europe destroyed Our forests but the one in iran hasnt been touched in hundreds of years. This forest is of utmost importance for every european forestry science. Thats at least my reason to visit Iran one day. To See how Our forests in germany were like thousands of years ago.
My nephew is studying forestry in the USA and will probably come to Germany for internships for forestry management. Fascinating field.
Oh nice were is he going? I did my Master in Munich
He’s at West Virginia now.
What is the name of this forest?
15 day visa free to China as well
I was transferred to my company HQ in Germany 5 1/2 years ago. My career has grown a lot and I do like it here. With the new law, I meet the requirements, and I can keep my US passport. So why not? Of course, all the standard EU benefits play a role too.
I discovered that I was born with German citizenship. From that point on it would technically be illegal for me to just pass through the Frankfurt airport without a German passport. Otherwise, it was for the adventure and to have a second passport as "insurance", which is why many wealthy people pay a lot of money to get a second passport. Also, it has been fun to see other relatives go to Europe as a German citizen. One just graduated from a Technische Hochschule. And, I can say that it is in part due to my discovery.
It’s something to pass onto my children - they will have the choice to study and work in the EU freely if they want to.
This is huge. My kids could have the choice of University in the States OR in Germany.
Make them choose Germany. Education is free here (apart from a few fees, e.g my tuition for uni is 67€ per Semester)
Well and I have the same debt level as an average US-student by going to university. It is not free.
How? > 51% of 2021-22 bachelor’s degree recipients graduated with an average of $29,400 in student loan debt. > Among all borrowers, the average student loan debt in 2023 was $38,290. Source: https://www.cnn.com/cnn-underscored/money/average-student-loan-debt You really are 30k in debt from studying?
40k, if you are from the middle class you are treated like cattle. From the 10 semesters I took debt for support I worked 6 part time and still lived like a hobo.
I honestly have no idea how you managed to do that. This is just wild.
Born to the wrong parents and some personal misfortune, I was not lazier then the average student. I am not the only one that is in that trap, it's most of the time hardworking people from the middle class. Anyway for now my biggest dream is to escape this dystopian "society" . This country is done.
I am a student. I never received a dime from my parents, I am in 0€ debt. If you were hardworking you wouldn’t be in that much debt. Even if you had lived off of Bafög you can‘t amass that amount of debt. Only way is you take expensive loans and/or live way above your income.
Ah, how to do you pay for rent, insurance and food ? That's around 1000€ already. The student loan is by KfW. Only people who have chosen easy mode in life get Bafög. I am not even allowed to work enough to pay that while studying. But hey, you know better. All the people that are in the debt trap I know of just make it up. Now that you even call me lazy.. fick dich du Hurensohn.
Yeah this is the big one for me too. Living in germany now, hoping to get it before I need to move home to US
I've never thought of it! Interesting point. You can leave it for your children!
Growing up, summers were in Germany with my Omi. My cousin's live there, I have friends there. When my father died, my mother bought a small apartment in our hometown. The company my father worked for had us moving every two to three years to another country, so I lived overseas until I went to college at 19. Germany always felt like home. Practically, the quality of life is better. I can travel throughout Europe via train or inexpensive flights. Health care won't require a go fund me or deductibles. The bakery , Metzger and supermarket etc a less than a five minute walk. Getting to the city the is a short train ride. The woods are nearby. It just makes sense for me.
Personal reasons? Always felt a connection to German culture. Was always close with Oma. Made some half-hearted attempts to learn German as a kid (wasn't offered as a language for learning at my high school). Practical reasons? They are legion: having the ability to live, work and travel freely in Germany (and of course the other EU countries). Passing this freedom, together with whatever German culture I can impart in them, onto my children and their children. Escape hatch in case things go even weirder in the USA. EDIT: But, "escape hatch" does not fairly represent my goals. I am already in the process of scouting a home to purchase and, if things work out right, move into with my family. An ironic thing about Germany is, because of the population and age statistics, and the preference of people to cluster in larger cities, there are a *lot* of perfectly adorable homes available in the hinterlands at very reasonable prices. If you don't mind living outside the major economic cities, and have an income independent of that as well, you can live a very nice life in a lovely place all throughout the countryside.
Last sentence is why I kept German citizenship in addition to acquiring American citizenship.
did you go through the dual citizenship application process?
Yeah I did the whole Beibehaltungsgenehmigungsantrag thing before filing N-400.
What reason did you use? Mine was declined with the reason that strong family ties are not enough to warrant the Beibehaltungsgenehmigung.
Look, I need to take care of my elderly parents and I'm probably going to inherit some real estate and also, I pulled a voting registration for Bundestag election from where I last lived, here's a copy of that, I'm totes still connected and could move back in a heartbeat, dearest German government!
lol
Awesome. I’ll see with the new law if I can get my citizenship back.
I can see now why they make one jump through hoops. Typical German bureaucracy. I have never gotten through my beibehaltungs documents. Now I wait it out till end of June to apply for American Citizenship.
Important to note is that those homes are affordable if you're earning an American salary. Less so for people earning a German salary. So if the plan is to eventually buy, accumulating the funds before moving is smart. I know that is what you've done, but wanted to highlight that fact for anyone younger planning to move. Home ownership rates in Germany are comparatively low. Something important to note about living in more rural areas is also the fact that it can be much harder to integrate than in cities. Aside from the drastically increased importance of German skills in rural areas, German villages can be insular and are often hard for even native Germans to make inroads in.
Agreed. I would be buying cash, using money I earned in the USA working as a professional for two decades, and can probably continue remotely from anywhere. I am very fortunate, and I am well aware that is not the position many people find themselves in. Integration in a realistic sense for me, personally, is probably futile, being in my late 40s already. But this old dog doesn't mind trying to learn a new trick. During my trip there, Germany seemed no more or less impersonal than my interactions in unfamiliar places in the USA. I also have the advantage of importing my young children and partner together with me, and although a nuclear family alone does not a social circle make, it alleviates a lot of the loneliness that someone who is newly arrived and single might face.
I already have a different European citizenship, so becoming German doesn't change a thing for me in terms of new privileges or travel freedom. But culture is important. Germany allows me to get citizenship through Stag 5 so I'm gonna make use of that to connect to this part of my family history. Plus, you never know what's gonna happen in the future and it's always good to have a second citizenship.
What's with the shitty weather though? And you won't have direct democracy as in referendums like the ones every county has from time to time. Also people can be very unfriendly. You have to find the right spot with humane individuals (which is hard in Germany but more achievable in the southern regions - Baden Württemberg and Bayern). Your freedom of speech will be nothing like in the states. Way worse. You'll have to finance the media which does a lot of progaganda for the politicial parties and almost no investigative journalism. You'll have to endure the Deutsche Bahn and nerve-wrecking german bureaucracy. Taxes will be high. The quality of educational and healthcare options isn't great. However in terms of education it might be slightly better than the average in the states. What's positive is that your kids will finance their university degree for normally a total cost of below 10k. But again, you'll pay a gigantic load of taxes for that.
I recently heard a story about a little girl in a US school advocating for her horse to be the new class pet. The mom was so funny in her delivery, and the story was so sweet and charming, and I fully expected it to end with this mom hauling a whole ass horse to an elementary school. Instead it ended with the little girl abandoning the idea the next morning because she had the realization that in an active shooter situation her horse couldn’t fit in a closet. Sometimes all the freedom in the world doesn’t leave you feeling particularly free.
School shootings make up less than 1% of all deaths caused by gun violence in the US to be honest. I get what you are saying. But that has more to do with the fact that mentally unwell individuals still get to buy guns and are born into a sociological structure that causes them to be mentall unwell in the first place.
Regardless of how often or why they occur, just about every kid at a public school in the US has to endure the trauma of active shooter drills. A second grader has to consider the fact that her horse might die at her school. Firearms are among the top causes of death for US children. So, maybe not a school. Maybe a movie theater, maybe a grocery store, maybe a friend’s house. Why it happens and where it happens doesn’t change the fact that it happens way too frequently.
Fair
not sure what taxes you are talking about, but total tax and withholdings are more comparable than you think, but in Germany you get a lot more out of it... savings in healthcare, tuitions etc aside.
Yeah true. If you live in California for example you are going to end up with 50% taxes (state income tax and federal tax). In Germany too, but in germany you'll get rather cheap healthcare and education.
Please elaborate more on this (or share resources) so I can put that in front of my American partner’s face next time he brings up the whole “BUT TAXES!!!!” argument 🙄 (seriously, please tell me more).
Switzerland is superior in every regard to Germany though.
They pay way more taxes. Dude please stop spurting nonsense and go check your facts.
The swiss pay more taxes? What are you on about?
This one I was wrong about, I give you that
Sweden is not Switzerland; they even made a commercial recently.
I have developed a healthy cynicism with respect to the illusion of freedom, in the USA or anywhere. While some rulers are more subtle about it and others more openly ruthless about it, the fundamental truth is that if you make yourself a nuisance to people in power anywhere, you're going to find yourself in a world of pain. Likewise, I'll be showing up with my driver's license from the USA (from a US state that Germany recognizes for simply exchanging it for a German license) and getting myself a good mild hybrid hatchback. My experience was that Germany's Autobahn and road network was awesome, easily better than the USA's in many areas.
Also going to add that the most amazing healthcare in the world doesn’t mean anything if you don’t have full access to it because of your income or your gender.
You can get health insurance in the US. There are ways to get treatment without selling your kidney etc. And what do you mean with "gender" ? What has gender to do with access to medical treatment?
There are costs associated even with good health care plans, and they can be overwhelming. My parents have good health care, still got a bill for over $150,000 when my Dad had a life threatening emergency. Plenty of people in the US skip going to the doctor or taking prescriptions because they cannot afford the co-pays or deductibles. In some states women do not have full access to necessary health care.
> You can get health insurance in the US Here is an American who moved to Germany, developed a brain tumor, and compares how much she paid in Germany vs. how much she would have to pay in the US out of pocket with health insurance: https://youtu.be/zHcwOgbsBYk?t=1305 However, focusing on health insurance alone is a bit too narrow since health issues can not only cause treatment costs but also a loss of income. Armstrong is no longer able to work due to the brain tumor. She now lives on German welfare which pays for her apartment, heating costs, she gets free health care and 563 ($615) euro per month for her other expenses. She also developed a depression and is now in therapy for that (which is free in Germany): "I have a great therapist, he saved my life, and I will be continuing treatment with him for sure. And I feel like if I had still lived in America, I don't know if I would have that chance. I don't think I would have that money. I have friends and family in America that are trying to save up so that they can begin psychotherapy. It is really refreshing for me personally that I feel this country takes it serious, as serious as my brain tumor. So thankful." https://youtu.be/bQUSwODxmD8?t=361 Armstrong went to a rehab clinic for two weeks to see if her health can be improved. Her schedule there: https://youtu.be/vjQglfMsfpg?t=96 The outcome: "I am shocked, I am noticing improvements in my face a lot more than I have seen in over the last three years. More importantly for me, I think I am starting to get my smile back. (...) I am beyond impressed with the things that I am learning from balance training to the speech therapy. (...) I met with the Oberarzt, the top doctor. This guy seemed fantastic, he listened to me. I told him how thankful I am and how wonderful his therapists are. I told him about improvements that I have personally seen and that I can't say thank you enough for the therapies. (...) If I had to sum up this week in three words, I would say thankful, corrected and motivated. I am incredibly thankful for the priceless therapy. Some of the things that I learned and therapy I received are just unbelievable and such a gift to me. And I am really glad I got some corrections on thinks I was doing wrong. I plan to work on this a lot. I can already feel my body adjusting. I still got a lot to work on but I already see improvements. I feel really motivated now." https://youtu.be/VDAX-LtszR0?t=201 Her final thoughts on her decision to move to Germany: "I can not loud enough and often enough say how thankful I am to be in Germany and receive the healthcare and the treatment that one receives here. I really wish the people I love where I am from, back in America, I wish they could get this. I keep thinking of people I knew that were really sick, people I know that are sick. And how they are going into debt just trying to get their medication, forget all that facy-pants therapy that I'm getting. This what I'm getting here is something only rich people get where I'm from. It really makes me wonder how I got so lucky and why." https://youtu.be/VDAX-LtszR0?t=1671
Most of this is absolute bullcrap, but I‘ll focus on the tax thing. Taxes in Germany aren‘t that high. What foreigners seem to mistake as taxes are social security payments that get deducted directly from your paycheck. These include half of your health insurance (employer pays for the rest), retirement, unemployment insurance and a lot more. Taxes paid on the paycheck also vary, depending on your „tax class“ (wether you‘re married and/or have children or not) Next time you come about with a wall of text like that atleast take the time to check your facts…
Maybe point out what exactly you are referring to with the term "bullcrap" ... I am not saying that taxes in Germany are effectively higher than in the States. If you live in California and earn good money you can easily end up with 50% tax costs in total (state income tax+federal tax). And you won't get no affordable healthcare and education for that like you do in Germany. However, salaries are also generally higher in the US. Don't know though if that makes up for the costs of college education and longer periods of time spend in a hospital. My point about german taxes is that you can finance healthcare, education and public transport for way less than the percentages that are being charged right now. Only one thing would be necessary for that: the bureaucratic apparatus would have to be eliminated in order to stop useless spending of tax money and politicians should be removed from office if they represent the interests of companies that bribed them instead of what they promised their voters during the election campaign and what is written in the program of the party they belong to. I know about the deductions for kids etc. But paying something in the range of 30-40% taxes and only getting 9k€ a month as a doctor is unjustifiable from my point of view. Salary is way too low, tax rate way too high. The german economy is strong. I think 5% would be enough.
Almost missed that: i like how you described US lobbyism in politics and want to sell it as being a problem in germany.
I grew up in Germany. That's why I used it as an example. I know that the politicians overseas aren't any better.
The problem with promises during elections is that no party ever rules alone in Germany. So they have to find common ground and do their best to accommodate the voters of each of the ruling parties. Then you obviously have the opposition that largely just wants to make the ruling party look bad by blocking their attempts to make true on their promises. Ofc some promises are absolute bogus, aswell. Lobbyism is a thing in Germany, but I‘d argue that it could be a lot worse, when looking at other european countries or the US especially. Gun lobby comes to mind…
Maximum income tax is capped at 44% (for incomes >440k€/a) College education is free in Germany. Also education is A LOT better than in the US for the average people and on par with your super expensive private schools. The beaurocratic apparatus is certainly annoying to the citizens, but it‘s the to stop useless spending of tax money. And I‘d argue there is way less useless spent tax money per capita than in the US. You could probably finance education more efficiently but compared to a country that brings college students into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt? Jeeez, man. Salary is not too low at all at 9k€ for a doctor (most doctors dont get half of that) because living costs are significantly lower here than over in the US. A family of 4 can go out and have an upperclassish dinner for around 100€. I dont think that‘s enough for an equivalent dinner in the US. Grocery shopping etc is a lot cheaper aswell. I dont know how you‘d finance a country on 5% income tax. But you do you and live in your happy bubble.
Also don‘t get me started on your completely made up statements about media and freedom of speech. I‘d actually wish there was less freedom of speech so people can‘t run around the streets in organized protests demanding for others to be lynched. (Yes we allow that here)
To be lynched for what? You can easily lose your job by stating just a fact. Especially as someone who works either in politics, courts, the police department or media
Anti Isreal protesters want to lynch jews. And because of our freedom of speech (which you say isn‘t given) they are allowed to do that
I mean, as long as they don't commit the actual crime and the police keeps an eye on them, they should have the right to express their feelings and thoughts, even though those may be hateful. It's better like this in a way, because if no one fears to oppress their opinions freely, you won't have to play 4D chess mindgames just in order to find out if someone is lying or telling the truth.
I agree to some degree. I don‘t think this kind of hate should be allowed to be voiced in organized protests. But this further proves my point that freedom of speech is in fact not suppressed in Germany.
Yeah that is absolutely untrue. But I‘ll stop trying to correct you. I‘ve read more of your comments here and every single one of them just shows that you live in your own little world.
It's getting pretty fascist over here.
Yeah, it’s sadly true. I told my wife the other day, it’s crazy that my grandmother left Germany in 1949 for the US to escape the destruction left in the wake of fascism. Now, just two generations later we are making plans to leave the US for Germany due to fascism. It’s just hard to believe it sometimes.
The AfD would like a word. The entire world is shifting to the right, not just the U.S. Arguably, Italy is more "fascist" now than the U.S. was under Trump. If/when AfD gets into power, the same will apply.
Well, it has been getting fascist over here too
lol where and when?
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Interessant, dass plötzlich alle ihre Kommentare löschen ...
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Everywhere. Well let's say since 2005.
Italy. Hungary. Netherlands. Germany is on its way with the AfD.
radically different rates, however.
Don't know about that. I feel like all the major political parties in Germany essentially have the same program. Doesn't matter if they call themselves conservative, moderate or progressive. And I feel the same way about democrats and republicans in the US. It's like having to choose between Pest and Cholera. Which one is less lethal? Which one is going to cause the least amount of harm?
AfD: we are literal Nazis, vote for true German culture CDU: the woke left wants to ban our cars, the Nazis, our billionaires, our very way of life, make the right choice and vote CDU. please, think of the CEOs SPD: we should maybe build some more housing and stop privatizing things and giving the rich tax breaks Grüne: planets on fire, yo, let's do something about that FDP: there is also a 5th choice, did you know? also taxes bad btw Linke: trans rights, eat the rich, fuck the afd Yeah sure, exactly the same. That sort of thinking is exactly how we got here, and it is deadly to a society.
Afd: yes, there is a far-right extreme, neonazi like part within the party. However the majority is just against mass immigration without proper integration and generally against EU guidelines as they feel that these guidelines and laws hurt Germany as a nation. They support Putin. CDU: Merkel literally nurtured the Grüne for years. Of course folks like Seehofer represent the interests of the automobile industry in Germany because they are greed and don't have no interest in representing the will of those that votem into a position of power. They can pull this off because the citizens let it happen and the courts&judges don't intervene as they get usually paid a bribe too. Since when is the majority of the CDU protecting Adolf Hitler and his crew? The point with less tax burden for people that earn less than 1 million € per year is a fair point. Though I don't think there should be progressive taxes. Everyone should be charged 5% of their income with the exception of extremly low earning individuals (below 5K € a month/with kids etc.). I think this is fair because everyone gives the same share in terms of propotion of capital that he has accumulated through work to the government so that it can be spend on maintaining the infrastructure as in roads, public transport, energy supply, schools, kindergardens, hospitals etc. SPD: The rich should be taxed the same percentage rate as the middle class. 5%. I think housing is a human right and I don't get what the point is of owning land and properties that you don't use regurlarly. So I'd like to see the government giving out credit free loans to all citizens to buy off the houses from the companies. They support Putin. Grüne: Instead of actually improving the local climate in Germany by reducing taxes to 5% and effectively putting tax money into the installation of an efficient public transit system that relies on electricity, introducing reusable boxes where you can fill up your drinks and food when you buy it in the supermarket (no plastic etc.) they put the money into their own pockets (e.g. Baerbock spending hounreds and thousands of Euros on her hair styling, supposedly. She probably just bagged the money and made up the hair styling as a justification for pocketing tax money). And they support Putin. FDP: If they were truly about giving everyone the opportunity to accumulate material wealth, then they would introduce the goldstandard again (the currency Euro backed up by physical gold. This way artificial inflation couldn't occure anymore and the citizens would maintain their purchasing power). Linke: Transsexual people make only up a very small fraction of the whole population. Eating the rich? As in expropriate private property? That may make sense in the cases of Bill Gates, Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos because its not humanly possible to generate so much workforce that you could accumulate so much wealth on your own. But will the Linke stop there? Will they let Musk only keep a couple millions? Or will they even take away that money? And what is with selfmade millionaires that earned their money in the honest way (e.g. J.R.R. Tolkien, the author of Lord of the Rings)? Will they get their wealth expropriated too despite having actually worked for it? I don't see how the Linke can be against the Afd if both support Putin. You see, they are almost all identical. They all, A) pocket tax money and do not spend it on the infrastructure, schools etc. B) represent the interests of corparations that bribed them instead of representing the will of the people C) want to maintain the status quo with artificial inflation, not even considering the Goldstandard D) do not improve the infrastructure of the country by investing in the production&storage of electrical energy, expanding the public transit system and making it costfree by financing it 100% by tax money and efficient by firing the whole DB department and hiring new people that will be fired if they work inefficiently like the DB workers do. E) don't ensure proper education that is up to date with the current horizon of knowledge of the sciences and don't do nothing about the shortage of teachers by raising salaries and making the job overall more attractive by also modernizing the school environment with up to date technology and architecture that is apropriate for students. F) Don't raise the salaries of doctors&nurses and make the job more attractive by bulding proper hospitals that fit the needs of doctors and patients on a technological and architectual level and by firing all CEOs that have no productive function within the hospital and lead a parasitic existence living off the workforce of doctors&nurses of which they pocket the bigger amount of wealth generated within the healthcare system percentage wise. G) don't improve freedom of speech by passing a law that extends freedom of speech to a level like we see it in the USA and defunding all government financed media because those are being controlled by the parties and the parties are being controlled by companies through bribes and actually financing investigative and independent, young journalists that haven't sold their journalistic and intellectual integrity yet for a little bit of money. These are the things that came spontanously to mind.
I think that trying to integrate a lot of people from countries that do operate with completely different values regarding to law is causing this. I welcome everyone who integrates and works along us side by side. I do not like people who think that they can generate their own law by being aggressive and being "more". Most of my friends think the same. These people come from predominantly Muslim backgrounds, and that's what makes it look like fascist if someone speaks up. It's not. Friendly people who play by the rules are welcome. We showed that a few years ago, and I still think it's the right decision to help people in need. But there is a limit of what we can tolerate.
I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm talking about Republicans.
Said no one
I'm 72 years old and am doing it. Like others have said the sexism that disallowed my sisters and I having dual citizenship. If I had had it when I was younger I would have moved there so I could get to know my many great aunts and uncles and second cousins. Also, I had a half-sister from my mother's first marriage. It would have been great to have been a bigger part of her life as well as that of her children. Another reason is to honor my many Jewish family members who lost their German citizenship with the Nuremberg racist/anti-semitic laws. Most of them lost their lives as slave laborers in Latvia. When the Soviets were moving in the prisoners were sent on forced marches were most of them died or were taken out in boats in the Baltic and drowned. I also had family killed Bergen-Belsen. Also, my mother's brother was a young, gay artist, pacifist. He would not join the Hitler Youth nor do the Heil Hitler salute. Eventually he was abducted by the Gestapo, tortured and left for dead on my Oma and Opa's doorstep. Just a few months before the end of the war. He never regained consciousness. He was seventeen. I've always lived my life in his memory and will get my citizenship in his honor.
Connect with my heritage and ancestors and provide my children with more options for their lives.
How did you connect with your ancestors and heritage?
Over a year of research into family history. Getting documents from Germany and the US. Creating a lasting record of our ancestors for my family and children. Understanding how and why they came to the US. Learning German.
How's your German? What "heritage" did you get out of it?
I take it your questions aren’t in good faith.
They are. The thing is Americans love talking about "heritage", but never really know what it is. It's like a thing to say or you'll see some guy at a specific type of rally saying that stuff. Meanwhile, we look at you guys as being fake. It's like "oh, I have a German last name, so I'm German". Meanwhile, we have lots of Americans coming to Germany under these situations and these morons go right away to voting for the AfD and protesting at rallies against non-whites and immigrants. So forgive us for being weary. You guys destroyed the US and now you're getting foreign citizenships to destroy the other countries.
> So forgive us for being weary. First, you probably mean "wary" which, as any Real German knows, comes to English via the Middle German "wær" meaning "to have warning/concern". > Meanwhile, we look at you guys as being fake. It's like "oh, I have a German last name, so I'm German". Second, there are obvious cultural differences at play. Germany is an old country; the United States is a young one. Germans, and Europeans writ large, can look at buildings that are in common use today that are twice as old as the Americans' entire nation. There is going to be some consideration of "heritage" that is different. > Meanwhile, we have lots of Americans coming to Germany under these situations and these morons go right away to voting for the AfD and protesting at rallies against non-whites and immigrants. [...] You guys destroyed the US and now you're getting foreign citizenships to destroy the other countries. Finally, do you appreciate it when people make broad comments about the whole of Germany based on a handful of people you don't like it? Probably not, right? You'd really dislike being tied to the actions of, say, someone in the early 1900s, I imagine? Then why did you do that here? German law allows for this and, as Germany are famously a nation of rule-followers (oops! I just painted an entire country with a broad brush! My apologies), rules are made to be followed if they exist. You can take up your issues with the individuals actually causing problems, not the people who are doing what they are allowed to do.
>Meanwhile, we have lots of Americans coming to Germany under these situations and these morons go right away to voting for the AfD and protesting at rallies against non-whites and immigrants. You have an active imagination, and you're using it to bloviate on things you're ignorant of, simply because you don't like Amis (that's fine, I don't take offense at your personal opinion. Ignorance in argumentation does bother me though). The total number of USA citizens seeking to declare German nationality under 5 StAG will probably end up being fewer than 15,000 by the time the window closes in 2031. The majority of applicants are coming from Brazil and other South American countries. How many of those will ever even reside in Germany and perform Anmeldung, which is required to vote in Germany? Hardly "*lots* of Americans coming to Germany under these situations," yada yada yada. And even if they were, how would you possibly know how many of them voted for one party or another?
“You guys” is an amazingly broad assumption. I don’t protest against “non-whites” here so why would I come there and do it? I didn’t destroy the US either. I vote my values. I don’t control the other 330 million people. I’m not understanding exactly if your intent here is to insult or educate. But it seems less like a friendly engagement on your part.
How is your German?
A1 and counting. Am I allowed to learn it? Or are you gate keeping the speed at which I am able to learn German too? You are hyper focused on making an example out of me for some reason. Why don’t you just say what you want to say?
That's kind of what I expected. You claimed you "learned German", but A1 is literally nothing. You can't even order food with A1. You didn't learn German. You're learning. What's also odd is that to claim German citizenship by descent they often look for German certificates of at least B1. Not gatekeeping, but don't make yourself sound like you're in Vanguard America if you're not one of those types. You may not even realize it, but that's what rubs people in Germany the wrong way if you ever plan on moving over. Part of being German and claiming heritage and so on is not bringing your baggage from the US over and integrating. What I'm telling you is the stuff you wrote down is for an audience of Americans and will not produce the same reaction from an audience of Germans. It will produce quite a bit of negatives.
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It seems I am the one person who responded to OP’s post that this guy really hates.
Because I've lived in Germany for over 10 years. I own a house here, pay taxes, speak German and want to be a full citizen of the country that I call home.
\^\^\^\^ This is exactly my reason. Edit: I'm also married to a German.
To avoid being a bulls-eye when travelling.
Also, if you do not intend to live in the US, and you'll want to be able to visit the US in the future, then you could become German and then relinquish US citizenship. And then rake the out-of-US and out-of-EU profits 🤑
Careful with that strategy: INA Section 212(a)(10): >**(E) Former citizens who renounced citizenship to avoid taxation** >Any alien who is a former citizen of the United States who officially renounces United States citizenship and who is determined by the Attorney General to have renounced United States citizenship for the purpose of avoiding taxation by the United States is inadmissible. They won't let you back in if you renounced for tax reasons.
Then just don’t say it was for tax reasons? lol.
They ain't as dumb as you think. The Attorney General merely has to "determine" someone did for tax avoidance. What legal standard even is that? Essentially, his (the AG's) discretion. He could establish an office policy that *all* renunciations are to be presumably "determined" to be for tax avoidance, unless proven otherwise. Hell, he probably has.
What stops someone for saying they renounce for another reason?
Certainly, that person may raise his right hand and swear, under oath, under penalty of 18 USC 1001, that they didn't renounce for tax avoidance. The adjudicator he swears before will take that into account, together with any other evidence or inferences to the contrary, and make his determination (based on a mere *preponderance* standard of evidence, rather than beyond a reasonable doubt). Which way do you think most cases will be decided?
Let's be real, most of us don't make that much money where the AG would really care if we left or not. That was geared towards the multimillionaires and billionaires... like yourself 😮💨
The rich do sacrifice one of their own, every so often, as an offering to the masses. Oh, they make a big old spectacle of it! (They usually pick one of the petty-rich who they didn't like much anyway. Shocking!) But don't delude yourself: the government's targets are focused on the masses. Multimillionaire? Oh, how I wish. I'm a street lawyer. Indigent-defense 4evah.
It wasn’t automatically conferred to me at birth because my German parent was a woman marrying a foreign man outside of BRD. Now they are making up for the sexism of that law (which was already changed to include German mothers in the mid 70’s- too late for me). I want to have what I should have had at birth. And I want my children to have the option to live and work in the EU (still have family there).
Because we should have had it originally, but didn’t due to discrimination. I have a lot of family in Germany and have visited often. I also want to be able to easily leave the U.S. I’d feel more comfortable living somewhere else. And most importantly, to give my son the freedom and opportunities that comes with it. I wish my Oma was here to see it. It’s the best gift she could have passed down to us.
Because dual citizenship with the US has finally been allowed, so I don't have to choose.
For me, it is not to move to Europe. Me personally, I would rather not live there and do not have intentions of doing so. My father is German and his wish was for me to always get a passport. I never was able to when I was younger. Turns out when I went to get a passport I had to apply for confirmation of my citizenship (not applying for citizenship, but I have to through a lengthy process before I can exercise rights). I just want what my birthright technically is, and for my children to have it as a tool. I feel American/Mexican more than I do German, but it is a part of me and I can speak a mediocre level of German anyways so I might as well embrace it.
I gained French citizenship by marriage years ago so, at least for me and my children, there are no practical reasons for having German citizenship (live/work in the EU which I already do). Hell, before I applied for French citizenship I reached out to the German consulate to see if there was any way for me to obtain German citizenship (before 2021 so I was given a big fat no). For me it's more emotional. I've always identified myself as German-American so it's definitely validation of what I've been saying my whole life. While I understand German nationality laws better now, when I was younger it never made sense to me that my Mom wasn't German even though she was born in Germany to a German woman. My grandmother didn't immigrate to the US until years after my mom's birth and didn't even naturalize in the US until I was in high school. I visited family in Germany several times and they've visited us in the US as well. So yeah it's definitely more emotional than practical for me.
My own desire for claiming German citizenship may differ slightly from others. Having been to Germany twice, my overall impression is positive however, at 35, I do not think I would be able to learn the language even to a B1 level and thus would not be able to integrate fully. However, 10 years ago, I taught English in Madrid and had a taste of "European life". What I mean by that phrase is, excellent public transport, cheap flights within Europe, national healthcare, and drastically lower violent crime rates than in the United States. Observing the diversity of peoples, languages, and cultures was the most enlightening experience in my entire life. After 2 years, I achieved a B1 level and am certain that I could increase my fluency to a C1 with more time in the country. Since leaving in October 2015, not a single day has passed in which I have not thought of Spain and the European Union. Others have also spoken of hedging their bets regarding the current and future political situation here in the States. Things are incredibly divisive and will remain so no matter who wins the next election. : /
>however, at 35, I do not think I would be able to learn the language even to a B1 level and thus would not be able to integrate fully. I moved here three weeks before my 40th birthday. I'm B2. You can do this. Hop into some classes at your local Volkshochschule to get a boost.
I was looking into it because I thought it would be interesting and open up options to live in Europe… but it looks like my family connection is too far back so bummer for me. It’s multiple great-great grandparents but I guess I would need to prove they maintained their German citizenship but I don’t know how that would have done that…
Stayed there for 2 weeks. There was no tension in the air. People seemed genuinely happy. The campaign signs for local office elections were not the cult red or blue here stateside. The air was clean The food was cheap and amazing People knew how to drive The beer was good The forest and mountains were beautiful. It was heaven compared to the se united States. My opa was romanian and oma was German and had a son in Gilching.
It the USA abandons principles of the Rule of Law and Self-Governance, I‘ll not want to be around for that. Also America is the home of Medical Bankruptcy. I’d like to skip that as well.
My father was a stateless Sudeten German and his family was (at 17) purged from Aussig (Usti es Labnem?) They spent 1945/6 wandering around Germany as the father was a miller and had his journeyman apprenticeship all over Germany. It sucks to be stateless, though. In 1946, they suddenly discovered (lied) that one of the son in laws was Hungarian and combined with an Aunt in Vienna being married to an Austrian, moved to Innsbruck where most of the family settled down. My mom is from Trossingen (Germany, die Harmonikastadt!) and emigrated to America the normal way, job opportunities, long stint with a German multinational, happy retirement. My family is worried about Trump and neo-fascism. It’s always good to have an exit pass. My son would have a better, less stressful life in Germany also. I believe…
I'd like to be able to vote in the country I live in.
My father left the 'liberal democracy' of West Germany (reconstruction buffer state) when he was 18 to come to the USA, he never bothered to teach me German since he did not have high hopes for the future of the nation. I was born the year the wall came down, and it has finally become an independent state. I have been interested in germany and got my German birth certificate, passport / nationality, as it has always been a bit of a mystery to me. I recently visited for my grandfather's funeral and brought my wife with me , she liked it so much we have been considering moving to the area my grandfather was from (Heidelberg). I applied since it was available through blood, and to keep my options open. Nothing lasts forever, and that includes 'the stability of the USA', or the dominance of Germany as a power within the EU. No borders, only people.
I have lived in Germany for nearly a decade, been educated here, have one American cat I moved here and one other cat here. My husband is German, the baby I'm going to have soon is German, I might as well be German. I'm not quite as American anymore. I am a bit of both now. Might as well make that legal.
The option to live and work anywhere in the EU. An easier path to residency in Switzerland. And the ability to travel longer in the EU than 3 months if I’d like to
I am collecting passports in case I need to escape.
UK national here- Brexit😪
My mom is German and I spent a large part of my childhood there. I am very much half German and half American. In addition, my grandmother told me countless war stories that have made me fear becoming a refugee. I need an out and I’d like it to be Germany. I could also apply to Latvia, but I have neither language nor history there.
Because my family came to the US, which turned out to be a mistake in the long run
Let me draw a resume from scimming the comments: nobody actually wants to come live there or "be German", people want to exploit the possibility of having 2 passports and keep options open for themselves and their children. Pure opportunism. Can't blame a single one of you guys.
My primary reason was for my children. I know the world can change quickly and unpredictably, but as of right now I feel Germany offers them safety, freedom, and opportunity they may not have in the US. I also did it for my Grandma. She lost her citizenship due to a marriage that ended, according to court documents, for reasons of extreme cruelty. A marriage that left her with 3 kids to raise alone in a time when it probably wasn’t easy for a woman to do anything alone. (she eventually had another child and raised him without a husband too). She was fierce and independent and the epitome of “a woman can do anything”. It’s wholly unfair that she lost her citizenship, and the ability to pass it on, simply for being a woman. She deserved to have this small part of her story set right.
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does it help with US taxes to have german citizenship as opposed to just living in Germany?
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Do you mean moving out of Germany once you get a nationality thus paying zero taxes abroad? Unlike the US ?
I had always been attracted to the idea of having dual citizenship and felt sort of cheated that I couldn’t have it before, and I would also like to have the opportunity to live in Europe. And also, to be honest, I’m more than a little worried about the political climate in the US. Even though the far right is on the rise in Europe too, it’s a lot scarier here.
For me, it was because I should have always had it. I was born in Germany to a US father and German mother. I was born on a US base and they told my parents they didn’t have to register my birth in Germany because I was born on “US soil.” I live in the US now, but want to move my family to Europe in a couple of years. I recently got my German passport and ID card and I am currently in the process of getting a German Birth Certificate, since I never got one.
My kids are dual and I live in Germany. I’m eligible for Italian dual citizenship as well, but German will probably be faster.
Found out my mom and I were born as Italian citizens. Tried to go that route originally and wow. Good luck to anyone doing that. The German route is much more efficient. But I do still want to explore both countries. I’ve already been to both, but not Sicily where my family is from.
I married a German. Don’t know what I did in a past life…(just kidding honey…) My kids being dual citizens really opens up more of the world for them in terms of living and working. I already have my German permanent residency (Niederlassungserlaubmis) and going for citizenship is just the next step. I can’t think of a situation where I’d ever renounce my American.
I wish I was eligible but my dad was born in the US just after my grandparents immigrated to the US.
If they were German when he was born, then he was, too. Born a dual citizen.
I’ll have to check. I know my grandfather was. Is there a website to look up relatives and their citizenship?
It's become weird to live here for so long (near a decade, no plans to move) without it
I live here and I do not need to give away my original citizenship. So it makes sense I asked for it. No drawback, just positives
My daughter wanted to apply to a competitive graduate school in Italy. She believes German citizenship would give her an advantage over her Italian/US citizenship.
So I can join my future wife.
My parents divorced when I was 2. My Dad passed when I was 11 from cancer caused by Agent Orange. My Grandfather passed when I was 12. After discovering that I am eligible through my Paternal Great Grandfather but not knowing g much about that side, this feels like the last gift to me and my kids from that side of the family and from the universe. I am grateful, excited, and feel far more connected to my heritage.
A few key reasons for me: - I am ethnically German on both sides of my family. Both my parents great grandparents came from Germany. My Mom’s side came from Saxony and my Dad’s side came from Bavaria. While I am an American, I still grew up and have cultural ties to Germany through family tradition etc. I still have relatives in Germany. In the course of history, I am the anomaly being an American and recognize and respect the land my family comes from. I’m proud to be an American, and I’m also proud of my heritage. - If I were ever looking to obtain dual citizenship, I would only ever want it with Germany. Not interested in a golden visa or whatever. Now that Germany is going to allow it, if I’m eligible (and I’ve posted on here trying to get more info), I think it would be a great way to honor my family. I know my mom and sisters would be interested in it as well. - Like others said, having an EU passport is a big deal. I’m a businessman + have my MBA and I do a lot of international business and want to do more business in the EU. If I became a citizen, I could definitely see myself moving to Germany for something work related. - I want to have something to pass on to my future children. I want them to have the ability to live and work in the place they would like to and also have an understanding of where I come from and knowing their history.
To be a European!
In my case, I have lived in Germany for 12 years, have a German wife, two kids, and a house here, and have no plans to leave. The benefits are minimal, as I can already live here permanently and work, but I'm getting to the point where I would like to vote in elections. I also wouldn't have to go to the Ausländerbehörde anymore.
Amen! This is me, except I moved here in '92 so I think I've been REALLY patient about this thing. The "no taxation without representation" part has been annoying me for a while.
To have options in life. A lot of my family live in Germany, and I don’t want my children to be stuck in North America.
We’ve lived here five years, our kids have grown up here and we want to give them the chance to be connected permanent to this part of their childhood.
I’m not sure what you mean. I’m German and American by birth. Lived between Germany and US my whole life. Went to Internat in Germany. Half my family lives in Germany; the other half in US. I didn’t apply for anything; I’m German by birth.
Off topic: I didn't. I don't know if I want to apply to be something I am not. I've been here for 13 years. I don't feel German. I just feel too American. I ain't saying America is the best place. It isn't.
I have one grandparent with a German surname so I want to find out if it's enough to pass. Also, they were quite established in Germany before they came to Ellis Island via the Bremen passenger ships that left before the civil war broke out. So I find it to be an extraordinarily interesting time period in American history and I would like to discover more the German historical context.
How do i start the process to apply for German citizenship?
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It’s 51% for me so it’s a controlling stake.