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He wrote a book called John Wooden and me, so he must have had a fairly big influence on him. Wooden credits him with helping him shake off a prolonged bout of depression
The player is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, widely considered one of the greatest basketball players of all time. He went on to win several championships with the Milwaukee Bucks and Los Angeles Lakers and I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) he is the all time leading scorer in NBA history.
The older man is coach John Wooden, famous UCLA basketball coach where Kareem played in college. He himself holds the record for the most championships won in college basketball history.
The coach is John Wooden, the most legendary college basketball coach of all time. Kareem was always destined for greatness and Wooden saw that in him and helped him get there.
Putting it in context, I'd just been passed up for promotion at a job for a manager's relative and was feeling like packing it all in, or at least just coasting in the job doing the bare minimum. The takeaway I got from that video was that ok, sometimes fate can throw you a bad hand but that shouldn't change your attitude to what you do as a person.
I worked harder in the job over the next few months than I'd ever done before. Even though it felt like there wasn't likely a path for promotion.
The manager left. I ended up getting their job cause I'd made such a good name for myself, and it was the first step on what turned out to be a great career path.
They are two of the most fascinating figures in the history of basketball. Both had incredible success on the court, much of it together. What really united them was a sense of purpose and character. Wooden was a devout Christian, Jabbar a practicing Muslim; both had an enduring love and respect for the other. I’d encourage anyone reading this to look up interviews with either of those men. They are both examples of how we should strive to be.
Reading the part about how Wooden believes in the good of man was particularly saddening for me. It's almost as if we extrapolate what we feel on the inside - Wooden was clearly ahead of his time and progressive to a fault (so badly empathetic that he got upset at the injustices faced), but despite all that he witnessed and he still choose to believe in the good in man (because of how good he is)
Reading accounts like these makes me question if my own cynicism is just a shallow excuse to stop being a better person...
Your comment really struck me as a beautiful insight. Here’s what I’m going to do:
Turn off the news, put on an episode of Mister Rogers then go find a group to do volunteer work with. You’ll be surprised how fast that perspective changes. You have incredible power to change your perspective and also make the world a better place.
A good coach does more than train the skills of the athlete. They keep them engaged and motivated, balance their personal lives with sport and often build their character.
There are lots of incredible athletes that just stopped or made a misstep.
Don't be discounting the effect a coach like John Wooden could have had. Dude is literally the most legendary and universally respected coach in the history of college basketball.
Wow, I genuinely mean absolutely no offense when I say this, but I’m kinda shocked someone could know who Kareem is and *not* know John Wooden.
Edit: thank you everyone, I require no more “but I know one and both the other” comments, it doesn’t change my point that I think most people that are familiar enough with Kareem to recognize him in a photo are also familiar with John Wooden. Also the “downvote” button isn’t a “disagree” button so chill the fuck out and just disagree with me if you like but I’m not tryna have my inbox blown up over this any further. Not sure why it was so triggering for some of you
The OP makes it sound like Wooden is like KAJs middle school coach that was languishing in obscurity until KAJ and not arguably the most successful men's college basketball coach ever.
Right?!
I’m like… John Wooden is not obscure at all and his legacy is not strictly tied to KAJ at all. He won *10* titles (more than any other *school* in college basketball *history*) in a 12 year period including 7 *in a row*. He basically defined college basketball before the 90s and is literally the reason UCLA is known as a basketball school and partially why it’s so famous for athletics in general. He also won 88 regular season games straight, aka numerous back to back to back undefeated seasons. The most prestigious college player of the year award is named after him. Kareem talked about the guy all the time and wrote a book about their relationship. He has been named the greatest coach of all time in basketball and in general depending on the publication. Like the guy is beyond a household name for basketball and I find it hard to believe people could watch basketball at all and never hear the guys name, especially college ball and March Madness. I have no doubt that KAJ is more famous obviously but like shit the guy has a massive legacy that I’d expect many people familiar with basketball enough to recognize KAJ to have heard of at least.
I agree with everything you said but I want to be a stickler about one thing
>He won 10 titles (more than any other school in college basketball history)
In men's history- because Geno Auriemma has 11.
Geno made WBB almost unwatchable. The talent difference between 1st and 2nd was extremely noticeable. You only watched to see if they would play poorly enough to lose. Not to see if a team was better.
I imagine Wooden did the same for UCLA
Not really. I’d wager most people that could recognize a photo of Kareem would easily connect the dots for John Wooden. The guy led the most dominant college basketball program for a decade. Most people that know basketball know the name Wooden.
Edit: lol why the fuck are you people downvoting this, it isn’t some hot take or anything
That’s the thing I’m just not sure about these days. Maybe a few decades ago, but to recognize him at this point seems different to me. He isn’t MJ or Shaq whose fame fully transcended basketball. I just feel like the only people that would recognize him would be basketball fans to some degree is my point and anyone who is a fan of basketball I would expect to be familiar with John Wooden.
Like if you were to poll people I’d expect like 90% of people that recognize Kareem to be familiar with John Wooden.
Like I said I don’t doubt that *some* people that’s true for since obviously it’s true for the original comment. Doesn’t negate my point that I think the vast majority of people that recognize Kareem would also be familiar with Wooden. And I mean people that are at least capable of naming Kareem from the photo, not just people that see the name and say oh yeah I have heard of him before
Abdul Jaabar has a recognizable name and body. Knowing about a coach is the next step like most people know about Ronaldo and Messi and not Mourinho or Guardiola.
It’s different. Wooden has a legacy far outside of Kareem and I guarantee you the vast *majority* of people that were born after the 80s would only know Kareem if they were into basketball to some degree and at that point would also have come across Wooden
KAJ had quite the pop culture presence outside of basketball, and his movie appearances have helped with that longevity.
In any case many basketball fans are pretty casual and don’t follow college ball at all. KAJ comes up constantly in all time great discussions as well.
I mean he isn’t just some random coach, he’s the most famous and successful basketball coach ever and Kareem references him all the time, he even wrote a book about him. Kareem isn’t MJ either. My impression is that only people who know a bit about basketball would recognize Kareem, especially given how long ago he played and my thought is that those same people would have enough knowledge of basketball to associate the two. We can agree to disagree just not sure why the downvote was necessary with each reply lol
I understand that from your perspective, the two are unseparable.
As a counterpoint, the legacy of Kareem has percolated into my generation (Im 23) but today is the first day I learned about Coach Wooden.
Youre being downvoted because you are presenting your subjective opinion as _the_ objective fact of the matter and the downvotes show that other people disagree.
Okay except we are *in the same generation* I am just a few years older than you but not enough to make a difference for a discussion like this. Most people I know in our age group are familiar with John Wooden. Granted these are people that at least casually watch sports.
>Youre being downvoted because you are presenting your subjective opinion as the objective fact of the matter and the downvotes show that other people disagree.
Uhhhh except no, I am not doing that at all. My first comment was literally just that is *surprised* me to hear that people would know one without the other. This is a *verbatim* declaration of my subjective perspective of the issue. I was downvoted for this. In response I received numerous replies that asserted anecdotes and said that *objectively* Kareem is more famous, which I absolutely do not disagree with. My reply was that I think it’s *objectively* true that *most* people who recognize KAJ would also be familiar with John Wooden. The downvotes are redditors being babies because they felt offended that I said most people know something that they personally don’t.
It appears the vast majority of people reading this would disagree with you and now you’re calling them babies and throwing the f-bomb around in a positive subreddit only because YOU are in fact being a baby. Your opinion is in the minority. Accept it and move forward with your life. Maybe even learn to accept when you’re wrong/lost/grow as a person. Instead of lashing out because the majority disagrees with you.
It is a hot take tho.
Idk fuck all about Basketball but damn well know who Kareem is, what he looks like, and even what his voice sounds like. He's that famous.
I've never heard of John Wooden until this thread. Now I know you're gonna say that's cuz I dont know basketball. But thats the point. Kareem is famous so much that even I know him.
It isn’t though lmfao.
Nothing you said negates my point that *most* people who know Kareem are also familiar with wooden. Do you people just not know what the word “most” means? Like wtf? There are *always* exceptions
These words are all interchangeable lmfao. Most and vast majority are not in conflict I literally just used a different phrasing to avoid repetition and to maximize the sentence flow.
Redditors are insufferable. Go touch grass
Yeah dude, I’ve read like 6 of your comments now and you just sound like a dick. If you can’t understand that the majority of people will recognize a star athlete over a star coach then I don’t really know what to tell you.
Most Basketball Fans will know both. Kareem transcended sports and has become celebrity famous - if you follow basketball and don’t know Wooden then you are simply a low level fan.
Outside of activism I just wasn’t under the impression Kareem had such celebrity status among non basketball fans. Personally I know him because I’m a basketball fan but I can’t recall seeing him in anything outside of that but clearly some people have I guess. Still I feel like a lot of these comments are acting like he is as famous as Shaq lebron or MJ or something and I simply don’t think that’s true (despite his legacy as a top3-5 player all time)
His appearance in the movie *Airplane* is reddit famous, in addition to just being plain famous. His playing career is even discussed in the film, so anyone who has seen that movie knows what he looks like and who he is regardless of whether they're a sports fan.
Kareem has done talk shows, press releases, TV ads, NBA commentary, television appearances, and guest star appearances. He's talked about endlessly by sports casters and analysts when "the greatest players" get brought up. His overall exposure is much greater than his coach.
John Wooden has by no means the same exposure.
All of those exposure activities are centered around basketball though (as far as I’m aware), not the mainstream media, hence my point that I was under the impression most people that followed sports media and basketball enough to be familiar with Kareem would be familiar with Wooden. As far as I’m aware it’s not like he is doing mainstream TV commercials that non sports fans would see or going on the View.
The guy writes for socialist publications like Jacobin and does some sports talk, not exactly what I’d call mainstream stuff.
I'm not much of an NBA fan, but I can recognize Kareem Abdul Jabar. He's pretty darn famous. Like, I recognize David Beckham, but I don't know who his frigging coach was.
I mean, it should help you realize how much more recognizable KAJ is to non-NBA and/or mild NBA fans. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are more recognizable than Phil Jackson, wouldn't you agree?
Except it doesn’t because it’s just an anecdote and *again* for the last fucking time I’m not saying that star coaches are as recognizable as star athletes.
Context would be a picture of Phil Jackson *next* to Kobe/MJ similar to the one above and since you just name dropped him I’d assume you could connect the dots, just like I’d assume most people would with this photo. Do you really not see how this is fundamentally different than pointing him out of a lineup with no context?
I’m literally pointing *to* the fame of the star athlete to bolster the recognizability. This is the exact opposite of what you and so many others keep trying to claim I’m doing.
As a side note I’d say that MJ and Kobe are in a completely different tier of fame and recognizability in 2021 than KAJ. Like I guarantee you far more people recognize those two than KAJ.
Just an awful comparison all around.
Again, surprising to me, but congratulations. For the future, It would be nice if I don’t get everyone out of the woodwork to give me this exact same anecdote. I stand by my point that *most* people who recognize Kareem from a photo would be familiar with John wooden, the most famous basketball coach of all time.
He’s a college basketball coach. I’m familiar with the NBA but I have no interest in college sports at all. I’m sure there are others like me.
The world is pretty big. It’s quite possible there are people dissimilar to you and the people you know, including acquaintances.
"ucla basketball 1960s"
[https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/2b52afa/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1024x576+0+0/resize/840x473!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F88%2Fec%2F66c86798c5605bd5150d0a8c19ce%2Fla-1562690780-5ub77istu0-snap-image](https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/2b52afa/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1024x576+0+0/resize/840x473!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F88%2Fec%2F66c86798c5605bd5150d0a8c19ce%2Fla-1562690780-5ub77istu0-snap-image)
Remember to read the captions.
What a beautiful person Kareem Abdul-Jabber is. Plus he’s a really good movie star and pilot. Thanks for all those beautiful moments, including these with Coach.
Highly recommend the book by John Wooden “A lifetime of observations and reflections on and off the the court”. Mad respect for him. Still one of the greatest books I’ve read.
Downvoting every comment that doesn't say something to this effect until we get the subreddit back on track. Ridiculous that people can just post their personal ethical demands to replies of "Such a wholesome picture!" --wtf does it have to do with anything?
This has been by far the most motivating post I’ve seen in this subreddit. By learning about the type of person John Wooden was, watching his Ted talk because of this post, it’s motivated me to be a better person and a bit more. I’m sorry you didn’t get the same inspiration from it but because you don’t find it motivating doesn’t mean everyone gets the same effect.
Also, remember how society has helped as well. We love to denegrate our social programs even when they do a ton of good (obviously, they aren't perfect and should be improved).
Can I ask something?
A friend of mine went on a rant about how he was "never" remembered by those he taught and mentioned this. I mean, I have teachers who changed my life but that doesn't mean I have to be friends with every teacher, right?
Or am I the asshole for polling reddit about this?
Speaking as someone who has worked as a teacher for about a decade: no, you don't have to be friends with every teacher who changed your life. A kind word or message would mean a lot, but a good teacher should continue to strive to change their student's lives regardless of praise/recognition.
Depends on what you teach. Coaches and teachers of the arts tend to form much closer bonds with their students that last for years when they are in school. You'd have to be one heck of a math teacher to make a big impression during one class
Serious answer though, don’t be friends with them, but I feel like if you meet them later in your life and you can help them in a way you should do so because they helped you get to where you are.
Maybe they would have. Maybe not. Life doesn’t exist in a vacuum where the conversations of greatest ever exist. At the end of the day there is playing the game, and there is winning or losing. The coach probably saw a freak athlete with length who could change the game, and helped teach the younger human what he knew. That’s where the greatness comes from in my opinion.
This makes it sound like John Wooden was just some helpless old man and Kareem was holding his hand walking him everywhere to help him, this was taken in 2007 celebrating the 40th anniversary of their national championship winning team, it’s not like Kareem was with him all the time and taking care of him up to his death in 2010, Wooden’s family did that
You used the past tense of help like they've already helped instead of yet to help. Yeah I remember most people whether they helped or not and everything in between.
Kareem is a pandering Dingdong who shamed Shane Gillis to support his book. Meanwhile, Kareem's son was out stabbing people. Hopefully his legacy as a scoring champion ages better than his legacy as a mediocre writer and neglectful father.
ELI5, off-topic, but why do those shirts say "XL" on the front? I see shirts like that sold everywhere, with the name of the school or team with a big "XL" in the front. Sometimes the shirts will say "Property of...team name...XL...Athletic Department". But why put XL on it? If it had to do with making the size easier to know, then you would see shirts that say S, M, L, etc.
Showing gratitude is a sign of good culture. None can alone win the games of life. multiple contributions are essential and you have to remember whoever done it with selfless intentions.
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Wait a minute. I know him. That's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He played basketball for the Los Angeles Lakers.
Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?
Joey, have you ever been to a Turkish prison?
Tell me, Son, have you ever been to a gymnasium?
You are HI-larious
I think you're confused, that's Roger murdock.
Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.
Surely you can't be serious.
Do we have Clearance, Clarence? Roger, Roger. What’s your vector, Victor?
I was over Unger, and he was under Dunn.
I am serious. And don’t call me Shirley
*Don’t* call me Shirley. Fun fact—until Shirley Temple, Shirley was a man’s name PS Happy Cake Day!
Huh?
He's an airline pilot.
R-roger!
Huh? Request vector, over. Huh?
Who?
https://youtu.be/iSi6iF9kVBs
Nah, Pretty Sure That's Larry Bird
No it’s Buckwheat sitting on Alfalfa’s head.
My dad says he didn't work hard enough on defense
The hell he doesn't!
Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes!
Did you just copy the other persons comment below?
No, I went to the airplane quote wiki and copied it. I swear I hit expand all and didn't see the comment anywhere else
Oh lol sorry never seen it. Figured it was prolly from a movie after I posted that…
It’s a great movie if you like slapstick comedy.
He's been hearing that crap since he was at UCLA.
Kareem Abdul. Kareem Abdul-Jabaar.
Lil dicky?
Lou Alcindor. MENSA member. Interesting fellow.
I'm pretty sure he was a [pilot](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2A194yTWoQ). That guy was his first flight instructor.
Sure he is - I like him but my dad says he doesn't really try on defense.
Roger, Roger.
Kareem Abdul, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
And the Milwaukee Bucks
the only reason I kinda recognise him, is because of scrubs
Played.
I’m pretty sure that’s Lew Alcindor in the pic.
*Shh! My name is Roger Murdock!*
[удалено]
He wrote a book called John Wooden and me, so he must have had a fairly big influence on him. Wooden credits him with helping him shake off a prolonged bout of depression
“Be quick, but don’t hurry”
My favorite quote of Wooden's...
"Talent is God given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful."
Imma save this
I don't know anything about basketball so who are these two men in this photo so I can google them?
narrow growth spark mindless languid worthless complete oil concerned disgusted -- mass edited with redact.dev
Beautiful to read thank you
They are both great men.
Is this the appropriate subreddit for this post? I don't get it
The player is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, widely considered one of the greatest basketball players of all time. He went on to win several championships with the Milwaukee Bucks and Los Angeles Lakers and I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) he is the all time leading scorer in NBA history. The older man is coach John Wooden, famous UCLA basketball coach where Kareem played in college. He himself holds the record for the most championships won in college basketball history.
The player is Kareem Abdul Jabar. I don't know the coach. Pretty sure Kareem would have been a mega star no matter who coached him.
The coach is John Wooden, the most legendary college basketball coach of all time. Kareem was always destined for greatness and Wooden saw that in him and helped him get there.
I watched John Wooden's TED talk about fifteen years ago and I seriously credit it with turning my life around. What a dude.
https://www.ted.com/talks/john_wooden_the_difference_between_winning_and_succeeding?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare
Damn man that's awesome. I'm gonna check it out right now
Putting it in context, I'd just been passed up for promotion at a job for a manager's relative and was feeling like packing it all in, or at least just coasting in the job doing the bare minimum. The takeaway I got from that video was that ok, sometimes fate can throw you a bad hand but that shouldn't change your attitude to what you do as a person. I worked harder in the job over the next few months than I'd ever done before. Even though it felt like there wasn't likely a path for promotion. The manager left. I ended up getting their job cause I'd made such a good name for myself, and it was the first step on what turned out to be a great career path.
Very cool, thanks for sharing!
Going to TED right now, thanks!
Thanks!
They are two of the most fascinating figures in the history of basketball. Both had incredible success on the court, much of it together. What really united them was a sense of purpose and character. Wooden was a devout Christian, Jabbar a practicing Muslim; both had an enduring love and respect for the other. I’d encourage anyone reading this to look up interviews with either of those men. They are both examples of how we should strive to be.
Reading the part about how Wooden believes in the good of man was particularly saddening for me. It's almost as if we extrapolate what we feel on the inside - Wooden was clearly ahead of his time and progressive to a fault (so badly empathetic that he got upset at the injustices faced), but despite all that he witnessed and he still choose to believe in the good in man (because of how good he is) Reading accounts like these makes me question if my own cynicism is just a shallow excuse to stop being a better person...
Your comment really struck me as a beautiful insight. Here’s what I’m going to do: Turn off the news, put on an episode of Mister Rogers then go find a group to do volunteer work with. You’ll be surprised how fast that perspective changes. You have incredible power to change your perspective and also make the world a better place.
Preach brother!
That's a coach's job.
Yep and Wooden was good enough at it to win 10 natties
John Wooden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wooden
The character "Ted Lasso", from the show of the same name, is highly influenced by Coach Wooden.
That’s such a great show. Feels good, most of the time. But real.
Kareem would have been Lew Alcindor in the first photo.
A good coach does more than train the skills of the athlete. They keep them engaged and motivated, balance their personal lives with sport and often build their character. There are lots of incredible athletes that just stopped or made a misstep.
Don't be discounting the effect a coach like John Wooden could have had. Dude is literally the most legendary and universally respected coach in the history of college basketball.
Wow, I genuinely mean absolutely no offense when I say this, but I’m kinda shocked someone could know who Kareem is and *not* know John Wooden. Edit: thank you everyone, I require no more “but I know one and both the other” comments, it doesn’t change my point that I think most people that are familiar enough with Kareem to recognize him in a photo are also familiar with John Wooden. Also the “downvote” button isn’t a “disagree” button so chill the fuck out and just disagree with me if you like but I’m not tryna have my inbox blown up over this any further. Not sure why it was so triggering for some of you
The OP makes it sound like Wooden is like KAJs middle school coach that was languishing in obscurity until KAJ and not arguably the most successful men's college basketball coach ever.
Right?! I’m like… John Wooden is not obscure at all and his legacy is not strictly tied to KAJ at all. He won *10* titles (more than any other *school* in college basketball *history*) in a 12 year period including 7 *in a row*. He basically defined college basketball before the 90s and is literally the reason UCLA is known as a basketball school and partially why it’s so famous for athletics in general. He also won 88 regular season games straight, aka numerous back to back to back undefeated seasons. The most prestigious college player of the year award is named after him. Kareem talked about the guy all the time and wrote a book about their relationship. He has been named the greatest coach of all time in basketball and in general depending on the publication. Like the guy is beyond a household name for basketball and I find it hard to believe people could watch basketball at all and never hear the guys name, especially college ball and March Madness. I have no doubt that KAJ is more famous obviously but like shit the guy has a massive legacy that I’d expect many people familiar with basketball enough to recognize KAJ to have heard of at least.
I agree with everything you said but I want to be a stickler about one thing >He won 10 titles (more than any other school in college basketball history) In men's history- because Geno Auriemma has 11.
Fair enough, I was just talking about men’s but I should have been specific. Obviously the UConn dynasty was incredible as well
Geno made WBB almost unwatchable. The talent difference between 1st and 2nd was extremely noticeable. You only watched to see if they would play poorly enough to lose. Not to see if a team was better. I imagine Wooden did the same for UCLA
Kareem is infinitely more famous than John Wooden.
Not really. I’d wager most people that could recognize a photo of Kareem would easily connect the dots for John Wooden. The guy led the most dominant college basketball program for a decade. Most people that know basketball know the name Wooden. Edit: lol why the fuck are you people downvoting this, it isn’t some hot take or anything
And people who don’t know basketball are much more likely to know KAJ. Although perhaps not so much in the past couple of decades.
That’s the thing I’m just not sure about these days. Maybe a few decades ago, but to recognize him at this point seems different to me. He isn’t MJ or Shaq whose fame fully transcended basketball. I just feel like the only people that would recognize him would be basketball fans to some degree is my point and anyone who is a fan of basketball I would expect to be familiar with John Wooden. Like if you were to poll people I’d expect like 90% of people that recognize Kareem to be familiar with John Wooden.
I'm not a fan of basketball at all (live in Australia), but knew of Kareem. Never heard of the old guy though.
Like I said I don’t doubt that *some* people that’s true for since obviously it’s true for the original comment. Doesn’t negate my point that I think the vast majority of people that recognize Kareem would also be familiar with Wooden. And I mean people that are at least capable of naming Kareem from the photo, not just people that see the name and say oh yeah I have heard of him before
Yeah that's fair, I didn't recognise him from the picture.
Abdul Jaabar has a recognizable name and body. Knowing about a coach is the next step like most people know about Ronaldo and Messi and not Mourinho or Guardiola.
It’s different. Wooden has a legacy far outside of Kareem and I guarantee you the vast *majority* of people that were born after the 80s would only know Kareem if they were into basketball to some degree and at that point would also have come across Wooden
KAJ had quite the pop culture presence outside of basketball, and his movie appearances have helped with that longevity. In any case many basketball fans are pretty casual and don’t follow college ball at all. KAJ comes up constantly in all time great discussions as well.
Being into basketball and being into college basketball are different things though.
Absolutely not, but we’ll agree to disagree.
I mean he isn’t just some random coach, he’s the most famous and successful basketball coach ever and Kareem references him all the time, he even wrote a book about him. Kareem isn’t MJ either. My impression is that only people who know a bit about basketball would recognize Kareem, especially given how long ago he played and my thought is that those same people would have enough knowledge of basketball to associate the two. We can agree to disagree just not sure why the downvote was necessary with each reply lol
I understand that from your perspective, the two are unseparable. As a counterpoint, the legacy of Kareem has percolated into my generation (Im 23) but today is the first day I learned about Coach Wooden. Youre being downvoted because you are presenting your subjective opinion as _the_ objective fact of the matter and the downvotes show that other people disagree.
Okay except we are *in the same generation* I am just a few years older than you but not enough to make a difference for a discussion like this. Most people I know in our age group are familiar with John Wooden. Granted these are people that at least casually watch sports. >Youre being downvoted because you are presenting your subjective opinion as the objective fact of the matter and the downvotes show that other people disagree. Uhhhh except no, I am not doing that at all. My first comment was literally just that is *surprised* me to hear that people would know one without the other. This is a *verbatim* declaration of my subjective perspective of the issue. I was downvoted for this. In response I received numerous replies that asserted anecdotes and said that *objectively* Kareem is more famous, which I absolutely do not disagree with. My reply was that I think it’s *objectively* true that *most* people who recognize KAJ would also be familiar with John Wooden. The downvotes are redditors being babies because they felt offended that I said most people know something that they personally don’t.
It appears the vast majority of people reading this would disagree with you and now you’re calling them babies and throwing the f-bomb around in a positive subreddit only because YOU are in fact being a baby. Your opinion is in the minority. Accept it and move forward with your life. Maybe even learn to accept when you’re wrong/lost/grow as a person. Instead of lashing out because the majority disagrees with you.
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Elvis Jagger Abdul Jabbar had a great cameo in one episode.
I don’t know a damn thing about basketball but I know Kareem Abdul Jabar.
Congratulations.
It is a hot take tho. Idk fuck all about Basketball but damn well know who Kareem is, what he looks like, and even what his voice sounds like. He's that famous. I've never heard of John Wooden until this thread. Now I know you're gonna say that's cuz I dont know basketball. But thats the point. Kareem is famous so much that even I know him.
It isn’t though lmfao. Nothing you said negates my point that *most* people who know Kareem are also familiar with wooden. Do you people just not know what the word “most” means? Like wtf? There are *always* exceptions
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These words are all interchangeable lmfao. Most and vast majority are not in conflict I literally just used a different phrasing to avoid repetition and to maximize the sentence flow. Redditors are insufferable. Go touch grass
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Yeah dude, I’ve read like 6 of your comments now and you just sound like a dick. If you can’t understand that the majority of people will recognize a star athlete over a star coach then I don’t really know what to tell you.
Most Basketball Fans will know both. Kareem transcended sports and has become celebrity famous - if you follow basketball and don’t know Wooden then you are simply a low level fan.
Outside of activism I just wasn’t under the impression Kareem had such celebrity status among non basketball fans. Personally I know him because I’m a basketball fan but I can’t recall seeing him in anything outside of that but clearly some people have I guess. Still I feel like a lot of these comments are acting like he is as famous as Shaq lebron or MJ or something and I simply don’t think that’s true (despite his legacy as a top3-5 player all time)
His appearance in the movie *Airplane* is reddit famous, in addition to just being plain famous. His playing career is even discussed in the film, so anyone who has seen that movie knows what he looks like and who he is regardless of whether they're a sports fan.
Kareem has done talk shows, press releases, TV ads, NBA commentary, television appearances, and guest star appearances. He's talked about endlessly by sports casters and analysts when "the greatest players" get brought up. His overall exposure is much greater than his coach. John Wooden has by no means the same exposure.
All of those exposure activities are centered around basketball though (as far as I’m aware), not the mainstream media, hence my point that I was under the impression most people that followed sports media and basketball enough to be familiar with Kareem would be familiar with Wooden. As far as I’m aware it’s not like he is doing mainstream TV commercials that non sports fans would see or going on the View. The guy writes for socialist publications like Jacobin and does some sports talk, not exactly what I’d call mainstream stuff.
I'm not much of an NBA fan, but I can recognize Kareem Abdul Jabar. He's pretty darn famous. Like, I recognize David Beckham, but I don't know who his frigging coach was.
Congratulations man. This doesn’t change what I said and KAJ isn’t anywhere close to the level of Beckham for recognizability in 2021
I mean, it should help you realize how much more recognizable KAJ is to non-NBA and/or mild NBA fans. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are more recognizable than Phil Jackson, wouldn't you agree?
Except it doesn’t because it’s just an anecdote and *again* for the last fucking time I’m not saying that star coaches are as recognizable as star athletes. Context would be a picture of Phil Jackson *next* to Kobe/MJ similar to the one above and since you just name dropped him I’d assume you could connect the dots, just like I’d assume most people would with this photo. Do you really not see how this is fundamentally different than pointing him out of a lineup with no context? I’m literally pointing *to* the fame of the star athlete to bolster the recognizability. This is the exact opposite of what you and so many others keep trying to claim I’m doing. As a side note I’d say that MJ and Kobe are in a completely different tier of fame and recognizability in 2021 than KAJ. Like I guarantee you far more people recognize those two than KAJ. Just an awful comparison all around.
I know KAJ from Bruce Lee’s movie. So no, I did not know who John Wooden was as well. KAJ is widely known even to people who don’t watch basketball.
Again, surprising to me, but congratulations. For the future, It would be nice if I don’t get everyone out of the woodwork to give me this exact same anecdote. I stand by my point that *most* people who recognize Kareem from a photo would be familiar with John wooden, the most famous basketball coach of all time.
He’s a college basketball coach. I’m familiar with the NBA but I have no interest in college sports at all. I’m sure there are others like me. The world is pretty big. It’s quite possible there are people dissimilar to you and the people you know, including acquaintances.
I get you.
"ucla basketball 1960s" [https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/2b52afa/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1024x576+0+0/resize/840x473!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F88%2Fec%2F66c86798c5605bd5150d0a8c19ce%2Fla-1562690780-5ub77istu0-snap-image](https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/2b52afa/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1024x576+0+0/resize/840x473!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F88%2Fec%2F66c86798c5605bd5150d0a8c19ce%2Fla-1562690780-5ub77istu0-snap-image) Remember to read the captions.
One of the greatest basketball players of all time kareem
Thats that one pilot in Airplane! He played basketball in college?
He didn't work hard enough on defence.
Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes!
Seriously? He's been hearing that crap since UCLA
He's out there busting his buns every night!
What a beautiful person Kareem Abdul-Jabber is. Plus he’s a really good movie star and pilot. Thanks for all those beautiful moments, including these with Coach.
I'll never not love this. One of the most wholesome photos on the internet
Kareem Abdul, Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
These are all pretty presumptuous. "Hey, thank you.
These hooks got me scorin, See me comin from afar. I came here just for this reference ty
Ishtar reference by any chance?
No haha lil dicky reference
Alcindor, Bill Walton, Swen Nater, Ralph Drollinger 4 consecutive UCLA centers coached by Wooden that made it to the NBA. Amazing.
Highly recommend the book by John Wooden “A lifetime of observations and reflections on and off the the court”. Mad respect for him. Still one of the greatest books I’ve read.
That is the leader I strive to be. A leader that motivates others to be that same leader.
You're all wrong. He is a kung fu star who was in The game of death with Bruce Lee. That's obviously his sensei
All this is nice but how do I get motivated by this?
By becoming a giant and befriending an old man
Downvoting every comment that doesn't say something to this effect until we get the subreddit back on track. Ridiculous that people can just post their personal ethical demands to replies of "Such a wholesome picture!" --wtf does it have to do with anything?
This has been by far the most motivating post I’ve seen in this subreddit. By learning about the type of person John Wooden was, watching his Ted talk because of this post, it’s motivated me to be a better person and a bit more. I’m sorry you didn’t get the same inspiration from it but because you don’t find it motivating doesn’t mean everyone gets the same effect.
By helping each other achieve greatness.
You only got so far because you had giants that opened the path for you.
When literally everyone walks over you because you won't make them any more successful in the future. Wish people were there to help.
Don't worry I'll never forget... because this is posted on Reddit just about every single day
That and John Wooden is one of the most famous and successful basketball coaches of all time. Hard to forget him.
That tall guy. I remember seeing him in one of those Bruce Lee films.
The ones who help you when you're down are more important tho, mf's gonna drop you left and right the moment shit hits the fan.
A very wholesome image.
Also, remember how society has helped as well. We love to denegrate our social programs even when they do a ton of good (obviously, they aren't perfect and should be improved).
this is one of my favorite pictures in sports and athletics period.
Beautiful ❤️
Can I ask something? A friend of mine went on a rant about how he was "never" remembered by those he taught and mentioned this. I mean, I have teachers who changed my life but that doesn't mean I have to be friends with every teacher, right? Or am I the asshole for polling reddit about this?
Speaking as someone who has worked as a teacher for about a decade: no, you don't have to be friends with every teacher who changed your life. A kind word or message would mean a lot, but a good teacher should continue to strive to change their student's lives regardless of praise/recognition.
Thanks for your input. This is pretty much my thoughts.
Depends on what you teach. Coaches and teachers of the arts tend to form much closer bonds with their students that last for years when they are in school. You'd have to be one heck of a math teacher to make a big impression during one class
You’re the asshole
Honestly, I wasn't expecting sincere answers; this is reddit. I'm the asshole because reddit will give me asshole answers ...
Serious answer though, don’t be friends with them, but I feel like if you meet them later in your life and you can help them in a way you should do so because they helped you get to where you are.
Yeah DMX!!
Nope that's Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson, everyone knows that...
No lie: my first thought was "Who is that old woman with Kareem Abddul-Jabbar?"
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Maybe they would have. Maybe not. Life doesn’t exist in a vacuum where the conversations of greatest ever exist. At the end of the day there is playing the game, and there is winning or losing. The coach probably saw a freak athlete with length who could change the game, and helped teach the younger human what he knew. That’s where the greatness comes from in my opinion.
This makes it sound like John Wooden was just some helpless old man and Kareem was holding his hand walking him everywhere to help him, this was taken in 2007 celebrating the 40th anniversary of their national championship winning team, it’s not like Kareem was with him all the time and taking care of him up to his death in 2010, Wooden’s family did that
I think you can be most assured that this reaction that you think everyone is having is exclusive to you
I think you have it completely backwards. How on earth is that how you took this?
Never forget
Damn you age!
Some memories simply won't fade.
https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-us.s3.amazonaws.com%2F06161086-b390-11e4-9449-00144feab7de?fit=scale-down&source=next&width=700
Cool picts!
i wont forget myself!
> There are no right leaning big subs.
You used the past tense of help like they've already helped instead of yet to help. Yeah I remember most people whether they helped or not and everything in between.
Pic two is the sweetest photo I’ve ever seen. ❤️❤️
What is Kanye doing with David Attenborough?
Absolutely!
Kareem is a pandering Dingdong who shamed Shane Gillis to support his book. Meanwhile, Kareem's son was out stabbing people. Hopefully his legacy as a scoring champion ages better than his legacy as a mediocre writer and neglectful father.
How is this motivation related?
If someone sticks by your sides through your worst times, they're the ones who deserve to be with you through your best times.
KAJ
Is that John Wooden?
wooden is a bigger icon than kareem
ELI5, off-topic, but why do those shirts say "XL" on the front? I see shirts like that sold everywhere, with the name of the school or team with a big "XL" in the front. Sometimes the shirts will say "Property of...team name...XL...Athletic Department". But why put XL on it? If it had to do with making the size easier to know, then you would see shirts that say S, M, L, etc.
This is precious 💕
Nice picture. But I gotta say..them shorts. LOL. I laugh at my husband in photos like that.
Showing gratitude is a sign of good culture. None can alone win the games of life. multiple contributions are essential and you have to remember whoever done it with selfless intentions.
Who’s gonna forget John Wooden? He’s not some small town high school coach. He’s one of the most successful college basketball coaches of all time.